mitnick-digest Monday, October 26 1998 Volume 01 : Number 183 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 18:47:06 EDT From: Phoenxknt@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] koolwip wuz first, you are next In a message dated 98-10-23 17:03:00 EDT, you write: << Ahahahahahaha! he's been *gasp* working on his skills! oh no! That gut has the "skills" of a three toed sloth on morphine. He couldn't forge a decent message the first time, and all he knows how to do is change the reply-to and from fields, which anyone can do simply by changing their prefrences. I'll bet he doesn't even know a single SMTP command to forge a decent message. Hell, I'll bet he doesn't even know what SMTP is. We all know how to spot forgeries. If one comes along, we'll simply trace it and report it to his ISP. Incidentally little AOLamers like this post to places like alt.2600 all the time trying to get someone else flamed. It never works and they just get insulted. Most of the time they also get tracked down and occasionally lose their accounts. I actually doubt that this guy is the one who forged the koolwhip posts, the attitude just isn't the same. (yes, I do hack by gut feeling, and recently I've been about 8 for 10..) >> I'm offended. Not all AOLers are lamers, and not all Non-Aolers are cool, i"m not saying i'm elite but i'm most definately not lame. - -Absolute Matter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 18:55:52 EDT From: Antboy23@aol.com Subject: [mitnick] the thread doth lengthen So many topics, so little time... So, for those of you who are upset about murderers getting off lightly, while Kevin rots in prison, remember this. The economic value of human life is decreasing in value, while the "possible" economic consequences of "hacking" is assumed to be billions by those in the government. human life means little to them, but money, don't you dare f*ck with their money, or they will make an example out of you too. For the record I don't use AOL (Aaa-Ooo-Hell), I just rout my e-mail throughout them. You see, AOL has countless dollars to be spent persecuting low balls who e-mail bomb or other wise spoof e-mail in bulk, causing a general annoyance. I use AOL as a "Big Man" buffer, that's how I take a little of my freedom back from the man. And another thing, why is it that when someone pisses you off(this spoofing thing) some people feel the need to use the term "fag"? aren't we above that yet? or am I to assume that the "Free Thinking" folks on this list, aren't that free thinking after all. This isn't a general slam on this list, but those of you that are guilty, take a deep look in the mirror. Hate begets hate. I can se it now, I'm gunna get responses calling me a fag, so be it. the only thing I can't tolerate is intolerance. Lastly, this language thing that keeps surfacing, it seems to be yet another debate spawned from a misunderstanding. lol, but I'll put in my two cents anys... To be perfectly clear, the English language is not American, no more than French Fries are French. it's English. It's common knowledge that the world views Americans as having no "World View", I must say, it has become apparent here. It is possible to use interpreter proggies on the net, but in the words of SOD, "Speak English or die!" lol, how did we come this far, when we can still find so much interest in bantering about the language thats spoken. I spent a lot of time in France as a kid, and over there it was "Speak French of die!" so I guess it doesn't really matter, but one thing of note, I believe it was the Korean language that received an award as being the best language suited for global use. just something to think about anys... well, I hope I didn't piss to many people off this time. If I did, deal with it, and if not (and you would like to be) simply let me know the topic you would like me to piss you off on, and I'll try my best. :) I'm Out ANTBOY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 18:02:03 -0700 (PDT) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick] mdc mail troubles On Fri, 23 Oct 1998, kerry wrote: > I don't think there's any > doubt that there are special conditions for him that don't apply to the > other prisoners. > > rOTTEN, did they put special restrictions on Poulsen's mail and stuff? I wasn't aware of any special restrictions against Poulsen. I opted not to send things that might look bad, or have shadows cast upon his character. The only time my mail was returned, was when I sent a couple of post-it notes along with the package. And if I remember correctly, you're not allowed to submit any paper that has "questionable stains" or any type of gang-affiliated paraphernalia...like pictures of you with your homies sportin' sawed-off shotguns. Post-its are out, so are polaroids. Now if you could take tobacco leaves, and press them and make funky paper out of them, can you imagine how cool that would be for the inmates? No more cigarettes, just peel off a stick of paper, fold it and smoke it. heheh. <..rOTTEN..> nobody move, nobody get hurt error187(1) critical failure - - - - - - To do: 1) Purchase soundtrack from 'Permanent Midnight' 2) Forge in the smithy of my soul the uncreated conscience of my race. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:54:08 -0700 From: The Bri Man Subject: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a Cellmate... I had another experience just today! it goes both bad and good, so how about i explain it... Well, you know the setting, here we go. Yesterday I heard of a meeting that me and some "hackers", my friends were going to have with the principal. Well, we walk in this morning and they send us to the office and confiscate our backpacks. They seperate us all and make us write statements of everything that we know about this hacking ordeal. We write, and soon the principal calls us in, as well as the Tech Teacher, a computer Teacher and two other teachers. Well, the principal tells us that this has gone far enough, and that an FBI Agent was going to be visiting the school next week to investigate all of this. Well, she gave us 1 last chance to get everything straight. And as far as I know, there is an FBI agent visiting to rather give a presentation on the topic of Computer Security and Hacking. Me, my friends and the 2 tech/computer teachers went over to a bakery to discuss everything (only 5 minutes walking). We talked of the software at hand that was causing the ordeal, as well as activities of me and my friends. They also talked about our laptops, also at hand. After an hour, and almost 4 periods missed, we came up with a solution that the computer teacher would be willing to set up an NT server that we built so as to use as a "sterile" or "testing ground" server for future softwares. This may not seem like a big satisfaction, but this is a great oppertunity for me as well as my friends. This gives us the enjoyment of playing with hacking, but also keeps our ass out of the fire. We are doing hazardous things, yet we are safe-guarded by the target of the tasks, and the agreement. *BRaiN KaNDy* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 04:28:58 +0000 From: kerry Subject: [mitnick] mdc is forgiven to dispel any paranoia i may have incited, they finally gave kevin his computer magazine and website printouts -- i guess it just took them a few days to go through it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:42:44 -0400 From: "Tim O'Neill" Subject: Re: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a Cellmate... >Well, you know the setting, here we go. Yesterday I heard of a meeting >that me and some "hackers", my friends were going to have with the >principal. Well, we walk in this morning and they send us to the office >and confiscate our backpacks. They seperate us all and make us write >statements of everything that we know about this hacking ordeal. We write, >and soon the principal calls us in, as well as the Tech Teacher, a computer >Teacher and two other teachers. Well, the principal tells us that this has >gone far enough, and that an FBI Agent was going to be visiting the school >next week to investigate all of this. Well, she gave us 1 last chance to >get everything straight. And as far as I know, there is an FBI agent >visiting to rather give a presentation on the topic of Computer Security >and Hacking. There was a U.S. Supreme Court case (don't know the name) that declared that when you enter a public high school, you do not lose your rights as a U.S. citizen. I was taught this in my history class, but EVERYTHING schools do disregards this. Ask any teacher about this case, and they won't believe you. U.S. schools think that kids don't have any rights in a high school, and think it's like a different country when a kid walks in their school. In other words, they violated your rights by: A) confiscating your back pack (unauthorized search & seizure without permission and/or authority; i.e., the cops didn't say the school could do that) B) Taking you each into four separate rooms. This is illegal seizure. They can't "force" you to do anything without a court mandate. You could have walked away from the school, and they couldn't have done anything about it. Any hacker knows the following code: If you get caught, don't say anything until you talk to a lawyer. No matter what they are promising you. Of course, they didn't even promise you anything, and they _still_ did this. I'm feeling sick. I highly advise getting a lawyer on their ass if they start messing with you any further. If they try to suspend you, or try to contact the authorities, immediately call a lawyer. The lawyer will not only scare the shit out of your principal, since the town would be sued and the principal would be fired as a liability, but any charges the school is pressing on you to a court would immediately be invalidated, even if they have signifigant amounts of evidence. - -Zterm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:01:21 -0400 From: Dan Sissman Subject: Re: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as aCellmate... Tim O'Neill wrote: > There was a U.S. Supreme Court case (don't know the name) that declared that > when you enter a public high school, you do not lose your rights as a U.S. > citizen. At best, the legal precedents conflict each other. IANAL, but there is a principle called "in loco parentis" whereby school administrators assume certain aspects of a parental role while a student is in school. Just as parents have a right and responsibility to invade their child's privacy if they think he is into something that makes him a danger to himself or others, so do school officials. (Please note, I am not commenting on the rightness or wrongness of this principle, I'm just mentioning that it exists.) I know this isn't strictly on-topic, but I thought it was important to mention in light of the thread. Anyone who wants to continue the discussion or flame me for an off-topic post, please repond directly to me rather than the list. - -- Dan Sissman, amateur triviaphile Free Kevin Mitnick! http://www.albany.net/~dsissman http://www.kevinmitnick.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 15:30:27 -0400 From: koolwip Subject: [mitnick] *Spoofer* HAHAHHAHAHAH THE DUMB FUCK UP IS TO STUPID TO DO ANY THING ELSE BESIDES SPOOF PEOPLES E-mails HE IS A 12 year old asshole , come on spoof my fucking e-mail again so i can fuck you up even more.   ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 15:13:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Andy Goodwin Subject: Re: [mitnick] *Spoofer* What is up with this list? its like 10% on topic posts, and the rest is kiddies tryin to prove something. Cut the crap out. Maybe this list should be moderated. _\|/_ Andy Goodwin (andyg@unf.net) ICQ: 176380 United Networking Foundation EFNet: PdM On Sat, 24 Oct 1998, koolwip wrote: > HAHAHHAHAHAH THE DUMB FUCK UP IS TO STUPID TO DO ANY THING ELSE BESIDES > SPOOF PEOPLES E-mails HE IS A 12 year old asshole , come on spoof my > fucking e-mail again so i can fuck you up even more. >   > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:00:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Support Services Subject: Re: [mitnick] *Spoofer* On -0600 (MDT), Andy Goodwin wrote: > What is up with this list? its like 10% on topic posts, and > the rest is kiddies tryin to prove something. Cut the crap out. > Maybe this list should be moderated. On -0400, Dan Sissman wrote: > I don't get it. Are you ridiculing him for getting a pro-Mitnick > letter printed in his local paper, or for mentioning it on the > Kevin Mitnick mailing list? : : One or the other? What limited choices. How about reason #27: : I am simply contributing to the overall noise on this list. Maybe now you understand, Dan. - --- "Free Kevin Mitnick!" (while supplies last) (normally $9.95 +tax) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 20:01:32 -0700 From: Caliban Tiresias Darklock Subject: [mitnick] Kevin on hacking... not Received in a ZDNet newsletter: >IS YOUR KID A HACKER? >Is your teen hacking the Pentagon instead of doing homework? >How to tell -- and how to handle it. Convicted hacker Kevin >Mitnick gives his views. > >http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdnu98102501/www.zdnet.com/familypc/content/98 10/columns/parental.html Nope, sorry, it's Poulsen. Evidently all Kevins are one. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- As the fire burneth a wood, and the flame setteth the mountains on fire; So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm. - ---------------------------[ Psalms, 83:14-15 ]--------------------------- Caliban Tiresias Darklock | "Hell, you don't Darklock Communications | know me." FREE KEVIN MITNICK! | - Charles Manson - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit out of you. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 11:51:21 -0500 From: "Bachrach" Subject: Re: [mitnick] *Spoofer* - -----Original Message----- From: koolwip To: mitnick@2600.com Date: Saturday, October 24, 1998 2:50 PM Subject: [mitnick] *Spoofer* Received: from earthlink.net (ip224.asheville.nc.pub-ip.psi.net [38.14.40.224]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17403 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 12:31:48 -0700 (PDT) oohhhh. A very, very, nice try, but anyone with three working brain cells in their head can see that this came from PSI net, not earthlink as the spoofer wants us to believe. Incidentally the last one was from PSI net too, so this is most likely the same thing... hmmm.... *copy*, *paste* mailto: abuse@psi.net Hey koolwip, if you can see this, you should send a message to them too. If it's coming from the person who was actually abused it'll cary more weight thatn coming from me or someone else. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 13:24:04 -0600 From: Alric Subject: Re: [mitnick] *Spoofer* yeah, it did come from psi.net, but they provide network backbones for a lot of ISP's. I mean they provide the hardware networks. Point being that the spoofer isn't necessarily a subscriber to PSI.net, because a lot of people pass through some psi.net server and have it in their ip/mask/dns. a letter to psi.net should still help Alric PWC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:44:49 -0500 From: "Tim O'Neill" Subject: Re: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as aCellmate... > I know this isn't strictly on-topic, but I thought it was important to >mention in light of the thread. Anyone who wants to continue the discussion or >flame me for an off-topic post, please repond directly to me rather than the >list. It's tough to mail someone without their address in a signature.... - ->-Zterm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 11:46:35 -0800 (PST) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a Cellmate... On Sat, 24 Oct 1998, Tim O'Neill wrote: > There was a U.S. Supreme Court case (don't know the name) that declared that > when you enter a public high school, you do not lose your rights as a U.S. > citizen. Yep...totally. Brain Kandy, you should get a copy of that ACLU book "Students' Rights" and stand up for yourself. If you're not hacking during school time, the extent of their parental control is limited. School administrators are, to put it bluntly, fucked up. <..rOTTEN..> nobody move, nobody get hurt error187(1) critical failure - - - - - - To do: 1) Update my "To do" list. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:07:49 -0500 From: "Tim O'Neill" Subject: Re: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a Cellmate... >Brain Kandy, you should get a copy of that ACLU book "Students' Rights" >and stand up for yourself. Where do I get this...? - ->-Zterm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:51:19 -0800 (PST) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a Cellmate... On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, Tim O'Neill wrote: > >Brain Kandy, you should get a copy of that ACLU book "Students' Rights" > >and stand up for yourself. > > Where do I get this...? I saw a copy in a library once,...and someone on this list said that you can order it through Amazon.com. <..rOTTEN..> nobody move, nobody get hurt error187(1) critical failure - - - - - - To do: 1) Update my "To do" list. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 18:23:49 -0500 From: Kenneth Lo Subject: Re: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a Cellmate... rOTTEN wrote: > > On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, Tim O'Neill wrote: > > > >Brain Kandy, you should get a copy of that ACLU book "Students' Rights" > > >and stand up for yourself. > > > > Where do I get this...? > Goto ACLU's website -> www.aclu.org (surpise, surpise...) and you can order from them. - -- klops ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 18:52:06 EST From: danafton@juno.com (Dan Eisenberg) Subject: Re: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a Cellmate... This book is not called "Students' Rights." It is called "The Rights of Students. It can be ordered fron www.aclu.org or www.barnsandnoble.com On Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:51:19 -0800 (PST) rOTTEN writes: >On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, Tim O'Neill wrote: > >> >Brain Kandy, you should get a copy of that ACLU book "Students' >Rights" >> >and stand up for yourself. >> >> Where do I get this...? > >I saw a copy in a library once,...and someone on this list said that >you >can order it through Amazon.com. > > > <..rOTTEN..> > > nobody move, nobody get hurt > > error187(1) critical failure >- - - - - > To do: 1) Update my "To do" list. > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 05:58:50 -0600 From: Zach Miller Subject: Re: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a Cellmate... At 06:23 PM 10/25/98 -0500, you wrote: >rOTTEN wrote: >> >> On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, Tim O'Neill wrote: >> >> > >Brain Kandy, you should get a copy of that ACLU book "Students' Rights" >> > >and stand up for yourself. >> > >> > Where do I get this...? >> > >Goto ACLU's website -> www.aclu.org (surpise, surpise...) and you can >order from them. > >-- klops you can also get it directly from Barnes and Nobles stores ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:05:08 -0500 From: "zoltan" Subject: RE: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a Cellmate... damn am I the only guy here not is school? - -z > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-mitnick@2600.com [mailto:owner-mitnick@2600.com]On Behalf Of > Dan Eisenberg > Sent: Sunday, October 25, 1998 6:52 PM > To: mitnick@2600.com > Subject: Re: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a > Cellmate... > > > This book is not called "Students' Rights." > It is called "The Rights of Students. > It can be ordered fron www.aclu.org or www.barnsandnoble.com > > > On Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:51:19 -0800 (PST) rOTTEN > writes: > >On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, Tim O'Neill wrote: > > > >> >Brain Kandy, you should get a copy of that ACLU book "Students' > >Rights" > >> >and stand up for yourself. > >> > >> Where do I get this...? > > > >I saw a copy in a library once,...and someone on this list said that > >you > >can order it through Amazon.com. > > > > > > <..rOTTEN..> > > > > nobody move, nobody get hurt > > > > error187(1) critical failure > >- - - - - > > To do: 1) Update my "To do" list. > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 18:43:53 -0800 From: Caliban Tiresias Darklock Subject: RE: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a Cellmate... On 09:05 PM 10/25/98 -0500, I personally witnessed zoltan jumping up to say: >damn am I the only guy here not is school? I've been out for a loooooong time. ;) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- As the fire burneth a wood, and the flame setteth the mountains on fire; So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm. - ---------------------------[ Psalms, 83:14-15 ]--------------------------- Caliban Tiresias Darklock | "Hell, you don't Darklock Communications | know me." FREE KEVIN MITNICK! | - Charles Manson - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit out of you. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:14:47 -0500 From: "zoltan" Subject: RE: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a Cellmate... k, so that makes to people... - -z > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-mitnick@2600.com [mailto:owner-mitnick@2600.com]On Behalf Of > Caliban Tiresias Darklock > Sent: Sunday, October 25, 1998 9:44 PM > To: mitnick@2600.com > Subject: RE: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a > Cellmate... > > > On 09:05 PM 10/25/98 -0500, I personally witnessed zoltan jumping > up to say: > >damn am I the only guy here not is school? > > I've been out for a loooooong time. ;) > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > As the fire burneth a wood, and the flame setteth the mountains on fire; > So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm. > ---------------------------[ Psalms, 83:14-15 ]--------------------------- > Caliban Tiresias Darklock | "Hell, you don't > Darklock Communications | know me." > FREE KEVIN MITNICK! | - > Charles Manson > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit out of you. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:53:22 +0300 From: "-smOke-" Subject: Re: [mitnick] that guy who was spoofing koolwip Hi, Aaron! (my granfather's name is same:) I heared that you using Prel scripts! Do you have a homepage? I learn this programming language, but no one of my friends doesn't enjoy it. They playing computer games! Lamers........... I trying to find a server for putting scripts on it, but admins say me that their servers not support such scripts as cgi or perl, and no one script will not work! What you can suggest to me!!! Bye-bye! - -smOke- smoke@royal.net Alternative e-mail adress: lighthousekeeper@bigfoot.com - ---------- | От: Aaron D. Ball | Кому: mitnick@2600.com | Тема: Re: [mitnick] that guy who was spoofing koolwip | Дата: 23 октября 1998 г. 1:18 | | On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, che guevara wrote: | | % what shall i do? | | If you're truly concerned about such an idiot, try using PGP to sign your | messages. But I wouldn't worry about it -- "g00b3r" looks to be the sort | of luser "hacker" that downloads a ready-made mail-forging program for his | k-r@d Lose98 box and brags about it to his 3133+ friends, and his | forgeries were primitive enough that a quick glance at the headers (never | mind the content) of his messages gave them the lie. That piece of shit | isn't even worth the effort of imbedding +++ATH0 in this message. | | And yes, I *am* intentionally trying to provoke the abovementioned waste | of skin, if it happens to actually be on the list. Bring on the flames! | (But privately, please.)(Not that saying that's going to make any | difference.) | | -- | [Aaron D. Ball ]Fortune sez: "Sorry, fresh out of fortunes." | perl -e'$_="GAT d>!s+:a19>?C++(++++)ULBS++(-)>++++P++++\$L+++E>+++W++(--)N++o+>+ | +K++w---O-M+V--PS+++PE\@Y+PGP>+++t+5 X+R?>+tv--b+++DI++++D+G+++E>++++h*r?y+*";s; | ;;;s;(\W)(\w);$1 $2;g;print"Just Another Perl Hacker and his Geek Code:\n$_\n";' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 22:48:55 -0700 (MST) From: Andy Goodwin Subject: RE: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a Cellmate... I have been out for a while. _\|/_ Andy Goodwin (andyg@unf.net) ICQ: 176380 United Networking Foundation EFNet: PdM On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, zoltan wrote: > damn am I the only guy here not is school? > > -z > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-mitnick@2600.com [mailto:owner-mitnick@2600.com]On Behalf Of > > Dan Eisenberg > > Sent: Sunday, October 25, 1998 6:52 PM > > To: mitnick@2600.com > > Subject: Re: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a > > Cellmate... > > > > > > This book is not called "Students' Rights." > > It is called "The Rights of Students. > > It can be ordered fron www.aclu.org or www.barnsandnoble.com > > > > > > On Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:51:19 -0800 (PST) rOTTEN > > writes: > > >On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, Tim O'Neill wrote: > > > > > >> >Brain Kandy, you should get a copy of that ACLU book "Students' > > >Rights" > > >> >and stand up for yourself. > > >> > > >> Where do I get this...? > > > > > >I saw a copy in a library once,...and someone on this list said that > > >you > > >can order it through Amazon.com. > > > > > > > > > <..rOTTEN..> > > > > > > nobody move, nobody get hurt > > > > > > error187(1) critical failure > > >- - - - - > > > To do: 1) Update my "To do" list. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:42:10 +0100 From: Hamburg Robbert <95100526@student.sem.hhs.nl> Subject: [mitnick] Keep clicking Keep clicking kevin's sponsor banners; http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8495 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 08:50:44 -0500 From: gjones@raleigh.ibm.com Subject: [mitnick] ZDNET I was on my system this morning trying to send an e-mail, when I caught a glance at an article the ZDNET sent out to it mailing list members, the title was "Is your kid a hacker?" If any one could post it I'm sure it would make interesting reading. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:54:54 -0500 From: "zoltan" Subject: Re: [mitnick] ZDNET What the hell is up with that, the article was in "Family PC". What is the cosmopoliton? What's next "Is your computer cheating on you?" I read it, and it was mostly crap that lamers do. kinda funny though. - -z - -----Original Message----- From: gjones@raleigh.ibm.com To: mitnick@2600.com Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 9:49 AM Subject: [mitnick] ZDNET >I was on my system this morning trying to send an e-mail, when I caught a glance at an article the ZDNET sent out to it >mailing list members, the title was "Is your kid a hacker?" If any one could post it I'm sure it would make interesting >reading. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:17:07 -0800 From: "Investa" Subject: Re: [mitnick] ZDNET I have not yet read the article, but here is the URL. Mike IS YOUR KID A HACKER? Is your teen hacking the Pentagon instead of doing homework? How to tell -- and how to handle it. Convicted hacker Kevin Mitnick gives his views. http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdnu98102501/www.zdnet.com/familypc/content/981 0/columns/parental.html - -----Original Message----- From: gjones@raleigh.ibm.com To: mitnick@2600.com Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 6:25 AM Subject: [mitnick] ZDNET >I was on my system this morning trying to send an e-mail, when I caught a glance at an article the ZDNET sent out to it >mailing list members, the title was "Is your kid a hacker?" If any one could post it I'm sure it would make interesting >reading. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:49:12 +0000 From: RaZ Subject: Re: [mitnick] ZDNET here it is: November, 1998 Is Your Kid a Hacker? By Kevin Poulsen If you suspect your kid is a computer hacker, here's some advice from a convicted hacker on how to handle it. It starts with a knock on the door. A dozen men in suits and shoulder holsters are outside, their Buicks and Broncos crammed into your driveway and parked along the street. Over their shoulders you can see your bathrobe-clad neighbors watching the spectacle from their lawns. It might be the FBI, it may be the Secret Service, but whoever it is, the humorless agents hand you a piece of paper and head toward your son or daughter's room. You wonder, perhaps for the first time, what your kid has been doing in there with the computer. If you're a parent, you probably regard the Internet as a font of both promise and peril for your children. It can be an invaluable learning tool and a way to encourage your kids to develop the basic computer skills they'll eventually need. But what if they take to it a little too eagerly and enthusiastically and begin using it to get into places where they don't belong? In that case, normal youthful rebellion, or simple inquisitiveness, if it's expressed over the Internet, could turn your family upside down. It happened last February in Cloverdale, California, when surprised parents found out their teenage son was suspected in a series of Pentagon intrusions. It happened again in Massachusetts a week later, when the Justice Department won its first juvenile conviction under the Federal Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. It happened to my family 15 years ago, in one of the first hacker raids in the country. At that time, I was the teenage miscreant who was illegally accessing federal computers. Now, in my early thirties, I've begun to wonder how I would protect a kid of my own from becoming a poster child for computer crime. I believe the best approach is to stay informed and to communicate with your potential cyberpunks. - ----- RaZ gjones@raleigh.ibm.com wrote: > > I was on my system this morning trying to send an e-mail, when I caught a glance at an article the ZDNET sent out to it > mailing list members, the title was "Is your kid a hacker?" If any one could post it I'm sure it would make interesting > reading. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 01:17:27 +0000 From: kerry Subject: [mitnick] Commentary on financial info This is interesting commentary on the financial "losses" alleged by the government in kevin's case. It was emailed in to the site. kerry - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:05:54 -0500 Horrific. I can't begin to describe the horrific nature of the bogus indictment I just read. In the UK (where I am from), there are two acts pertaining to the activities of 'computer misusers' 1) Data Protection Act 2) Computer Misuse Act The DPA is interested in companies which fail to protect confidential information by ensuring that systems and procedures are sufficient and adequate to prevent the release of information to unauthorized persons. The CMA is interested in the prosecution of unauthorized persons, in effect. >From what I read from Mitnick's indictment, there is a complex and confused use of language, law, crime, testimony and conclusion. This figure of $80M is entirely bogus. If you look at para 26 of the indictment, they claim that the proprietary software is '...worth millions of dollars'. I think there is an interesting argument here. It may well have cost millions to develop this software, it's 'worth' is something quite different. As an example. I developed some software to take data from a specialized telecommunications device and place that data into a file that could be read by database software. It took me 1 hr and 46 minutes to write, test and check the software (running on Linux). How much did it cost and what is it worth? I charged the client around $8,000. Is that what it's worth? The client used the software to increase his profit 28% in that fiscal year, totaling some $460,000. Is that what it's worth? It took me under 2 hrs to develop it, I charge about $125.00 per hour for most software things. Is that what it's worth? To develop this software I needed my brain, which has achieved an honors degree, a Ph.D. and 10 years of experience and practice. How much is that? I dunno, but is that what the software is 'worth'? It cost Microsoft Millions and Millions to develop Win98, right? You can Upgrade to 98 for less that $100. You can buy it new for around $200.00. Is that what it's worth, or how much it cost to develop? How many copies of the software are there, that Kevin Mitnick took a copy of? If the software was a copy of software on another machine (the cost of which was already paid by the company) is the copy not worthless in effect? I can't wait for January. I calculate the damages for Kevin against the Government must be well in excess of, well lets say $10.00 Billion, give or take. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:00:50 EST From: Phoenxknt@aol.com Subject: Re: [mitnick] My close encounter with Visiting KM, only as a Cellmate... In a message dated 98-10-25 23:18:40 EST, you write: << k, so that makes to people... -z >> May I ask, DID you go to school? First you screwed up and said <> and then the "to" for two. Tsk Tsk, maybe you could go back to school. We have room in my English class if you'd like. - -AM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:16:24 -0600 From: "XxGaLxX" Subject: Re: [mitnick] ZDNET--off topic review I'm sorry but that article is crap--strictly my opinion though. If my parents even slightly thought i could do something illegal with my computer, i would be shipped off to boarding school so fast i wouldn't even get to say goodbye. They wouldn't "talk" it over with me or any of that shit by asking questions, and from where a couple of my friends are now...their parents are the exact same. i know this is probably really OFF TOPIC...but just wanted to tell ya my reaction to it. gal > > > IS YOUR KID A HACKER? > Is your teen hacking the Pentagon instead of doing homework? > How to tell -- and how to handle it. Convicted hacker Kevin > Mitnick gives his views. > > http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdnu98102501/www.zdnet.com/familypc/content/981 > 0/columns/parental.html > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:09:04 -0800 (PST) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick] ZDNET On Mon, 26 Oct 1998 gjones@raleigh.ibm.com wrote: > I was on my system this morning trying to send an e-mail, when I caught a glance at an article the ZDNET sent out to it > mailing list members, the title was "Is your kid a hacker?" If any one could post it I'm sure it would make interesting > reading. It's published in Family PC. 'sall I got for ya's. <..rOTTEN..> nobody move, nobody get hurt error187(1) critical failure - - - - - - To do: 1) Update my "To do" list. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:10:37 -0800 (PST) From: rOTTEN Subject: Re: [mitnick] ZDNET On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, zoltan wrote: > What the hell is up with that, the article was in "Family PC". What is the > cosmopoliton? What's next "Is your computer cheating on you?" I read it, > and it was mostly crap that lamers do. kinda funny though. > > -z They dumbed it down. It originally was a funnier piece. Naturally there were some issues that Poulsen had with writing it in the first place. He couldn't outright say that hacking was wrong. etc. <..rOTTEN..> nobody move, nobody get hurt error187(1) critical failure - - - - - - To do: 1) Update my "To do" list. ------------------------------ End of mitnick-digest V1 #183 *****************************