[00:00.000 --> 00:00.400]  Exciting.
[00:01.820 --> 00:03.880]  A couple of announcements first, though.
[00:04.580 --> 00:13.540]  Just a reminder, when you leave, one thing you can do to help everybody close off the conference, close up the conference faster, is take all of your garbage with you.
[00:13.660 --> 00:17.260]  I'm seeing lots of club lots of bottles and cups and things like that.
[00:18.020 --> 00:31.360]  We're going to be asking for everybody's help at the end of the conference to do things like clean up, move chairs around, help strike the set downstairs on second floor, and the more you can help us, the sooner, the better it will be.
[00:31.800 --> 00:33.060]  This is a volunteer-run conference.
[00:33.240 --> 00:35.220]  We don't make any money much off of it at all.
[00:36.420 --> 00:39.180]  So it's a big help when you can do stuff like that.
[00:39.500 --> 00:47.480]  Also, if you're thinking about getting anything from the 2600 store, please be aware that it's going to close down roughly around the closing ceremonies, I think maybe right before.
[00:47.840 --> 00:50.100]  So don't wait too long to do that.
[00:51.180 --> 00:52.520]  Aside from that, you guys ready to go?
[00:53.080 --> 00:53.440]  Yeah.
[00:53.640 --> 00:53.820]  Cool.
[00:53.940 --> 00:55.660]  Without further ado, the Hackers Without Borders panel.
[01:03.220 --> 01:04.660]  Hi, I'm Smokey.
[01:04.860 --> 01:09.400]  I am with the Aftershock Action Alliance and the People's Law Collective.
[01:09.880 --> 01:18.820]  And I'm going to be, I guess, kind of facilitating this group panel on Hackers Without Borders.
[01:18.820 --> 01:34.920]  I'm going to be talking about technology in a variety of crises and specifically how this community, the Hacker community, can get involved.
[01:35.380 --> 01:39.260]  So I think the other presenter is coming up.
[01:39.960 --> 01:42.200]  You want to say who you are?
[01:45.120 --> 01:45.960]  Oh, great.
[01:46.540 --> 01:47.580]  My name is Dennison.
[01:47.880 --> 01:48.980]  I'm with HackBlock.
[01:49.220 --> 01:54.760]  We're a collective that provides tools and resources to anti-authoritarian communities.
[01:55.040 --> 01:58.800]  I'm also a member of the March Hare Collective, a communications collective.
[02:01.200 --> 02:02.180]  My name is Ringo.
[02:02.380 --> 02:03.240]  I'm also part of HackBlock.
[02:08.150 --> 02:08.750]  So...
[02:08.750 --> 02:09.050]  So...
[02:09.050 --> 02:09.530]  So...
[02:11.910 --> 02:12.770]  I'm Elena.
[02:13.090 --> 02:16.370]  I'm with Aftershock Action Alliance and I'm just going to be flipping the slides.
[02:17.550 --> 02:20.370]  I didn't think I need to introduce myself.
[02:23.760 --> 02:29.520]  So to start this presentation, we have to understand that there are two approaches.
[02:29.520 --> 02:38.060]  And these approaches are not so complementary as they are oppositional approaches to crises.
[02:38.460 --> 02:41.980]  On the one side... I can't see the screen, but somewhere.
[02:42.420 --> 02:53.400]  On one side is the government approach to crises, which really is hallmarked by the idea of management.
[02:54.520 --> 03:15.840]  This has actually changed post, say, post-World War II, but the idea is that the government and actually corporations and even to a certain degree non-government organizations, large ones like Red Cross, Salvation Army, other groups that do relief, are interested in managing.
[03:15.840 --> 03:34.600]  Managing resources, but most importantly, managing people during times of crisis, which is different than the civil defense idea that the government had, going from the depression up into World War II, which was a much more civilian-involved process.
[03:35.800 --> 03:43.960]  And this management is recognizable by their, I would say, paranoid desire to control information.
[03:44.980 --> 03:55.180]  They have this desire to keep information from not only the media, but from people both inside a crisis area and outside of a crisis area.
[03:55.320 --> 03:55.760]  Why?
[03:55.960 --> 04:02.200]  Because they believe information will limit their ability to manage a situation.
[04:02.900 --> 04:07.100]  And they want to, in the end, these are means to an end.
[04:07.280 --> 04:12.480]  And the end is to reestablish as quickly as possible the status quo.
[04:12.480 --> 04:19.200]  We'll get back to what was happening before the disaster, before the civil unrest, or before the crisis.
[04:20.260 --> 04:34.180]  People, like us in the rooms, your neighbors, your coworkers, your fellow students, when we organize for disasters, when we find ourselves in crises, there's some hallmarks.
[04:34.340 --> 04:37.140]  And there's been decades and decades of research.
[04:37.140 --> 04:39.600]  And what's interesting is this seems to be cross-cultural.
[04:39.900 --> 04:42.880]  It doesn't matter whether it's happening in South Africa.
[04:43.100 --> 04:46.820]  It doesn't matter whether it's happening in China or here in New York.
[04:46.820 --> 04:51.200]  The first thing that happens is it's recognizable by mutual aid.
[04:51.700 --> 04:52.300]  It makes sense.
[04:52.480 --> 04:53.800]  You're helping out your neighbor.
[04:54.140 --> 04:55.300]  Yeah, there's a fire.
[04:55.440 --> 04:57.680]  Maybe four of you get together, try to put out the fire.
[04:58.120 --> 04:59.220]  It's mutual aid.
[04:59.220 --> 05:01.340]  There's not a cash exchange going on.
[05:01.440 --> 05:05.360]  No one is coordinating and saying, you, put out the fire.
[05:05.580 --> 05:07.040]  You know, we're coming together.
[05:07.860 --> 05:14.560]  And the first thing you find out is there's a thirst for information and people are sharing information.
[05:15.180 --> 05:18.940]  Now, if they don't have good information, that doesn't mean the sharing stops.
[05:19.140 --> 05:20.100]  They share rumors.
[05:20.420 --> 05:21.260]  They share gossip.
[05:22.080 --> 05:24.040]  People are, what's going on?
[05:24.220 --> 05:25.380]  That's the first question.
[05:25.380 --> 05:26.840]  Did you hear X?
[05:27.120 --> 05:29.540]  Do you know if the roads are safe to go down?
[05:29.820 --> 05:30.020]  Okay.
[05:30.640 --> 05:32.600]  And it's self-organized.
[05:32.860 --> 05:36.680]  Uh, it's not that people have planned way ahead of time.
[05:36.820 --> 05:43.460]  In case of this scenario, you're going to be the captain, I'll be the lieutenant, and Dennis will be in charge of sanitation.
[05:43.720 --> 05:44.680]  It doesn't work that way.
[05:44.780 --> 05:47.280]  Or that somebody comes in and says, this is what you're going to do.
[05:47.440 --> 05:48.780]  It just self-organizes.
[05:49.000 --> 05:51.400]  That doesn't mean specialization doesn't occur.
[05:51.400 --> 05:57.520]  That maybe a group of us will decide that, uh, we will be the people to go out and check on the older people.
[05:57.680 --> 06:00.000]  And maybe somebody says, hey, I'm a nurse.
[06:00.640 --> 06:02.780]  I, I can set up a first aid station.
[06:02.920 --> 06:06.340]  So it doesn't mean that specialization doesn't occur or that roles don't appear.
[06:06.500 --> 06:09.980]  It just simply means that it's organized by the group on the fly.
[06:11.200 --> 06:15.880]  Um, this is a, uh, these are the groups in charge of managing a crisis.
[06:16.200 --> 06:17.940]  Uh, the emergency alert system.
[06:18.080 --> 06:20.220]  It used to be the emergency broadcasting system.
[06:20.320 --> 06:22.260]  It used to make that annoying little tone.
[06:22.960 --> 06:25.860]  Um, FEMA, of course, everybody's familiar with.
[06:26.120 --> 06:30.080]  And Department of Homeland Security, who kind of oversees all of it.
[06:30.240 --> 06:33.340]  There are a variety of local and state, uh, groups that are also involved.
[06:33.340 --> 06:45.460]  But if you look at here, this is on the first page of the FEMA 2004 policy, explaining how the EAS, the emergency alert system, is supposed to work.
[06:45.620 --> 06:51.700]  The primary function of the emergency alert system is to support the continuance of government, or COG.
[06:52.460 --> 06:54.320]  All information must be managed.
[06:55.000 --> 06:55.420]  Okay.
[06:55.760 --> 06:57.960]  Uh, this was, you know, this is on the first page.
[06:58.040 --> 06:58.920]  They're not trying to hide this.
[06:58.980 --> 07:01.240]  You don't need to go to WikiLeaks to find this.
[07:01.240 --> 07:02.820]  You just need to go to the FEMA page.
[07:02.980 --> 07:06.620]  Um, and we're going to see more of this kind of approach.
[07:06.760 --> 07:09.920]  What happens when they manage information?
[07:10.300 --> 07:19.220]  Well, this is, uh, Whitman, who is in charge of the Environmental Protection Agency during 9-11.
[07:19.400 --> 07:21.200]  You can see the date there is 9-12.
[07:21.520 --> 07:26.700]  And she comes out and says, air quality is entirely safe at ground zero.
[07:27.460 --> 07:29.260]  Did they know that it was safe?
[07:29.380 --> 07:29.580]  No.
[07:29.580 --> 07:33.800]  In fact, they had plenty of reason to believe it was not safe.
[07:33.960 --> 07:43.200]  They actually had run scenarios ahead of time looking at what would be the pollution if, uh, the World Trade Center would come down because of the very first bombing.
[07:43.420 --> 07:43.900]  Okay.
[07:44.000 --> 07:45.020]  So they already had this.
[07:45.160 --> 07:46.040]  So they lied.
[07:46.680 --> 07:47.440]  Straight up.
[07:47.640 --> 07:50.560]  They managed the information because it served their needs.
[07:50.560 --> 08:00.480]  Um, and on the side there you could see that the information was patently false and it, it led to serious health, uh, issues with people.
[08:00.480 --> 08:05.660]  And, and probably deaths and there are countless, countless lawsuits going on right now.
[08:06.780 --> 08:14.340]  Not only that, but they actually passed the resolution to prohibit people from doing, taking their own, uh, air quality samples.
[08:14.340 --> 08:20.180]  Yeah, right now it's illegal to have a Geiger counter, uh, in New York, uh, passed by legislation.
[08:20.180 --> 08:20.540]  Why?
[08:20.700 --> 08:22.360]  Because information needs to be managed.
[08:22.520 --> 08:26.100]  Why should you know if a dirty bomb has gone off in Times Square?
[08:26.320 --> 08:30.300]  The authorities will let you know when you, when you need to worry.
[08:31.820 --> 08:35.640]  Um, this is another classic one after Hurricane Katrina.
[08:35.900 --> 08:37.180]  Uh, this was sent out.
[08:37.260 --> 08:42.980]  It was actually, they had helicopters instead of picking people up, flying around with this recorded message.
[08:43.140 --> 08:47.580]  Part of that recorded message is there's food, medical care, and transportation at the Superdome.
[08:47.580 --> 08:49.880]  Um, well, that, that just wasn't true.
[08:50.180 --> 08:50.820]  They knew it.
[08:51.140 --> 08:55.400]  It wasn't a case of, oh, is there or isn't, because they already had a base there.
[08:55.740 --> 08:57.500]  They were waiting for these people to come.
[08:57.640 --> 09:05.200]  So they were sending people, um, where there wasn't either food, medical care, and, of course, transportation would come weeks later.
[09:05.220 --> 09:07.380]  And we all got to see it on our TV screen.
[09:07.580 --> 09:10.280]  On the red here is just some, you know, statistics.
[09:11.020 --> 09:17.460]  And, um, this, uh, little quote on the side, we have food for security only, uh, was actually broadcast.
[09:17.460 --> 09:21.400]  Uh, when confronted by a local, uh, ABC reporter.
[09:21.640 --> 09:23.100]  It's like, how come there's no food here?
[09:23.180 --> 09:23.880]  Well, we have food.
[09:23.940 --> 09:24.880]  Well, where, where is it?
[09:25.000 --> 09:26.740]  It's only for the security.
[09:28.800 --> 09:32.300]  This goes back a little bit further in 1906 to San Francisco.
[09:32.720 --> 09:40.900]  Uh, and this kind of, I think, captures the mindset that really hasn't changed much about people, uh, that are in charge of managing disasters.
[09:41.740 --> 09:43.100]  Volunteers are the problem.
[09:43.360 --> 09:44.860]  This is for professionals.
[09:45.020 --> 09:48.180]  The rabble may help each other up, but it is anarchy.
[09:48.300 --> 09:56.440]  This was, uh, General Greeley, uh, who is the person that, after the earthquake, let the poor neighborhoods burn to create burn breaks.
[09:56.440 --> 10:01.680]  And then, when that didn't work, actually, uh, unleashed artillery, uh, to neighborhoods.
[10:01.980 --> 10:09.460]  And eventually knocked out this very well-functioning tent city, uh, which you see the photograph there that lots of writers wrote about.
[10:10.560 --> 10:16.300]  So, I mean, this is the, this is the approach, uh, that government has.
[10:16.480 --> 10:29.620]  During Katrina, of course, it was famous that the National Guard stopped Red Cross trucks, stopped individual groups that were trying to bring aid, and kept them out of the city, because the city was not yet managed.
[10:30.440 --> 10:36.020]  Once the city was managed, then civilian aid could come in.
[10:36.020 --> 10:37.920]  That was, that's the idea.
[10:38.120 --> 10:41.900]  That's the thinking, uh, behind, uh, these kind of approaches.
[10:42.120 --> 10:50.820]  So, it's very understandable, uh, but it may not actually be our agenda as people who tend to suffer from these, uh, disasters.
[10:52.600 --> 10:54.280]  So, that's all bad news, right?
[10:54.700 --> 10:56.120]  That's all not good.
[10:56.380 --> 11:06.420]  You know, your, your leaders can't save you, but they can get you killed is kind of the shorthand message of that, which is not very uplifting, right?
[11:06.720 --> 11:19.780]  Uh, Katrina, Haiti, uh, so on and so forth, show us time and time again, uh, that the government's attempts at management, really turn out to be, uh, exercises in mismanagement, mismanagement.
[11:20.100 --> 11:34.360]  However, that being said, uh, the Chinese character for, uh, crisis or disaster, Ouija, is actually made up of two characters, uh, which is danger or time of danger and a time of opportunity.
[11:34.660 --> 11:39.800]  And I think that's what we want to talk about here, is how can we make that happen?
[11:39.960 --> 11:47.940]  How can we get mutual aid, self-organization, and revision and resist returning back to the status quo?
[11:48.440 --> 11:49.960]  Uh, how can we do that?
[11:50.100 --> 11:55.300]  And I believe in talking and talking with many disaster people, people have lived through disasters.
[11:55.540 --> 11:57.380]  We've, we've gone to Katrina.
[11:57.740 --> 11:59.280]  People have gone to Haiti from our group.
[11:59.280 --> 12:00.860]  We know a lot about this stuff.
[12:01.000 --> 12:01.980]  We've been studying it for years.
[12:02.160 --> 12:05.680]  It seems that the key always is information.
[12:06.080 --> 12:07.540]  And that's why we're here at HOPE.
[12:07.700 --> 12:09.220]  And that's why we're here talking about it.
[12:09.480 --> 12:17.220]  Because you guys, like it or not, are the non-governmental experts on how to get information to people.
[12:17.680 --> 12:18.120]  Okay?
[12:19.600 --> 12:21.980]  So, but you're not the first people to do that.
[12:22.900 --> 12:28.360]  Uh, pirate radios, uh, have been used in crises, uh, going way back.
[12:28.360 --> 12:32.180]  They've been used in protests, disasters, and civil unrest.
[12:32.440 --> 12:36.380]  And that was an earlier form of wireless, uh, communication that had some advantages.
[12:36.800 --> 12:46.160]  Uh, the first one, uh, here, we're gonna kind of clip through these, is, uh, DJ Rabbit, who was, uh, the, he made a movie, Good Morning Vietnam.
[12:46.160 --> 12:51.320]  But it was really a pirate radio station, uh, in, uh, Vietnam.
[12:51.620 --> 12:58.040]  And the quote is from a brigadier general who's talking about Rabbit before he, before they figured out who he was.
[12:58.220 --> 13:05.640]  Um, that it had a huge impact in creating, uh, protests and things like that.
[13:05.640 --> 13:14.360]  And then I thought because of all the stuff we'd been talking about, WikiLeaks, he's kind of like the WikiLeaks, uh, before there was, uh, Internet and personal computers.
[13:14.600 --> 13:16.480]  But nobody squealed him out.
[13:17.460 --> 13:18.660]  No, he didn't.
[13:18.740 --> 13:19.680]  He didn't go to jail.
[13:20.220 --> 13:30.240]  Uh, Radio Alice in Italy, uh, was, I think, one of the very early uses of wireless technology to help and promote self-organization.
[13:30.700 --> 13:38.180]  Um, of course, the, um, the leader of the Calabrini, which is their equivalent of kind of an FBI and state police, put it together.
[13:38.640 --> 13:45.240]  Saw them as the kind of, that they couldn't control the streets until they took Radio Alice off the air.
[13:45.360 --> 13:47.120]  Which was illegal, actually, at the time.
[13:47.260 --> 13:50.460]  Because there were different radio laws in Italy, but they took it off.
[13:50.560 --> 13:51.860]  It was run by a bunch of anarchists.
[13:52.520 --> 13:54.300]  Uh, but they were very important.
[13:54.440 --> 14:01.360]  Radio Alice was important not only leading up to the protests and the crisis, but the resisting of the management.
[14:01.540 --> 14:02.860]  Providing self-organization.
[14:03.220 --> 14:04.380]  Letting people know.
[14:04.600 --> 14:06.400]  And it didn't matter where you were politically.
[14:06.820 --> 14:09.380]  Letting people know what was going on in the streets.
[14:09.380 --> 14:10.980]  Because there was a media blackout.
[14:11.620 --> 14:11.820]  Okay?
[14:12.080 --> 14:14.840]  So again, you have the government trying to control information.
[14:15.120 --> 14:15.920]  Ooh, there's a crisis.
[14:16.160 --> 14:17.520]  There's a bunch of people protesting.
[14:18.140 --> 14:20.000]  We're going to keep all the journalists away.
[14:20.780 --> 14:23.700]  There's protesters that are trying to figure out what's going on.
[14:23.880 --> 14:26.080]  You know, where, where they can go and things like that.
[14:26.080 --> 14:30.540]  And then you have average people, too, who want to know, Hey, do I have to go to work today?
[14:30.740 --> 14:33.360]  Or is everything shut down because of the general strike?
[14:33.640 --> 14:36.180]  And the only place people could get that information was Radio Alice.
[14:36.380 --> 14:38.120]  It became hugely popular.
[14:38.380 --> 14:41.420]  Uh, all sorts of people were listening to it.
[14:41.520 --> 14:46.420]  And it became a threat on the monopoly of, of, uh, information.
[14:48.020 --> 14:52.780]  I, uh, helped, uh, found a group called the Emergence Broadcast System.
[14:53.240 --> 14:55.760]  And, you know, instead of Emergency Broadcast System.
[14:56.140 --> 14:57.640]  Uh, a little self-organization.
[14:58.100 --> 15:03.420]  Uh, and in our mission statement, it was people-to-people information, unmitigated and uncensored.
[15:03.520 --> 15:06.420]  Very similar to, you know, WikiLeaks and things like that.
[15:06.440 --> 15:11.220]  Except for we were trying to provide information from people-to-people in Katrina.
[15:11.220 --> 15:16.380]  And how we did this was through mutual aid and self-organization.
[15:17.060 --> 15:26.720]  Uh, we, we collected a variety of communication tools that were non-existent, uh, after the hurricane to bring them down there.
[15:26.820 --> 15:35.520]  The two major ones were a, uh, radio station, uh, pirate radio station, which was, uh, donated up in Urbana, Illinois.
[15:35.520 --> 15:40.920]  And then other people gave us a solar, uh, power generator.
[15:41.280 --> 15:42.060]  And we had some experts.
[15:42.260 --> 15:50.920]  And we got people from about seven different states, who never knew each other, got involved, worked together, brought down a pirate radio station.
[15:51.060 --> 15:51.400]  Why?
[15:51.740 --> 15:52.940]  Well, we had no idea why.
[15:53.240 --> 15:54.220]  That wasn't our job.
[15:54.320 --> 15:56.180]  We weren't trying to manage the crisis.
[15:56.480 --> 15:58.020]  We knew people wanted information.
[15:58.200 --> 16:02.960]  Once we got down there, there was a Native American tribe that said, we lost 60% of our people.
[16:03.860 --> 16:06.040]  We don't know where the rest of our people are.
[16:06.420 --> 16:14.220]  And because we are a recognized, uh, tribal, uh, government, we can't get any FEMA help or anything like that.
[16:14.320 --> 16:16.260]  We want to pull our tribe back together.
[16:16.760 --> 16:18.060]  And we don't know how to communicate.
[16:18.160 --> 16:20.360]  We used to have a radio station, got destroyed.
[16:20.660 --> 16:23.100]  We said, here, we'll set up this radio station.
[16:23.340 --> 16:25.900]  And they were able to pull back their tribe to rebuild.
[16:26.340 --> 16:27.820]  But we didn't have that in mind.
[16:28.360 --> 16:28.800]  Okay?
[16:28.800 --> 16:32.920]  The idea was that we just brought down the tools and let them use it.
[16:33.520 --> 16:41.580]  And the other thing we did is, uh, Craig, um, uh, person donated five, uh, satellite phones.
[16:42.300 --> 16:44.940]  Because there was no phone communication coming out of Katrina.
[16:45.400 --> 16:46.720]  Families were disrupted.
[16:47.080 --> 16:52.600]  People had been, said they were going to be, bus would show up and say, this will take you to Austin, but then we'll take you to Nebraska.
[16:52.600 --> 16:57.200]  You know, and people lost families and people, they still hadn't counted.
[16:57.320 --> 16:58.960]  And they'd never gotten an account of the dead yet.
[16:59.180 --> 17:02.040]  Uh, so it was, it was incredibly complicated situation.
[17:02.040 --> 17:06.340]  So we thought, well, why don't we bring down phones and let people...
[17:06.340 --> 17:08.080]  And we didn't even know if people would use them.
[17:08.420 --> 17:10.060]  We didn't really have a plan.
[17:10.420 --> 17:16.240]  And we just started to drive around and set up little stations where people could use the phones.
[17:16.640 --> 17:18.660]  And hundreds and hundreds of people lined up.
[17:20.820 --> 17:30.100]  And, you know, it wasn't a great system because the battery would run out because they eat a lot of juice and all we had was the solar, um, generator and the line.
[17:30.260 --> 17:40.240]  And I remember at one point, one of the people that was organizing called me back in New York and said, I'm worried because there's hundreds of people sitting here in a hundred degree weather waiting to make a five minute phone call.
[17:40.620 --> 17:42.200]  You know, how should we organize this?
[17:42.320 --> 17:45.460]  I'm like, ask them, let them organize it.
[17:45.560 --> 17:46.980]  We're just there to give them the tool.
[17:46.980 --> 17:47.460]  And they did.
[17:47.600 --> 17:48.460]  They figured out ways.
[17:48.600 --> 17:50.880]  And we didn't try to control the communication.
[17:51.260 --> 17:57.840]  We didn't say, here, you need to make calls to this person or that person or call the media.
[17:58.000 --> 18:00.280]  Some called the media and said, hey, this is what's going on.
[18:00.460 --> 18:03.780]  Some called their grandmother and said, hey, you know, we're still alive.
[18:04.060 --> 18:15.700]  You know, that is the kind of tools that we were looking to build, which were totally not managed but flexible and allowed and promoted self-organization.
[18:15.700 --> 18:22.840]  You should know that the National Guard and the female officials attempted at every time to stop us from doing that.
[18:22.960 --> 18:28.260]  And when this little mobile satellite phone thing came up, the Red Cross said, oh, that would be great.
[18:28.360 --> 18:32.580]  Why don't you bring it to the Superdome so people can call and let people know?
[18:32.580 --> 18:38.740]  And when they showed up there, they were turned away and said there was no need for that help.
[18:39.160 --> 18:48.140]  And they were not allowed to provide something as simple, something we take for granted every day until it's taken away from us, being able to communicate back and forth.
[18:49.800 --> 18:57.360]  Phones, which leads us to phone phreaks, ham radio people pushing phone calls and squad brigades.
[18:58.800 --> 19:01.860]  Phones are an important wireless kind of form of communication.
[19:02.100 --> 19:07.660]  The thing on the left is an Aries tent.
[19:08.360 --> 19:10.200]  Aries is a ham radio.
[19:10.320 --> 19:14.360]  I know they were doing the amateur radio license earlier this afternoon.
[19:14.360 --> 19:16.080]  This is very important.
[19:16.320 --> 19:21.620]  There's technology to allow you basically like Skype over amateur radio.
[19:22.560 --> 19:27.660]  And that may be a way to avoid the satellite phone issue, which eats up a lot of power.
[19:27.940 --> 19:30.520]  And also they're like $15,000 a piece.
[19:30.620 --> 19:31.240]  They're very expensive.
[19:32.840 --> 19:34.840]  And they've been used...
[19:34.840 --> 19:42.880]  Phone phreaks were actually... I put them in there because I found this interesting thing about phone phreaks in England that got around.
[19:43.040 --> 19:48.880]  There were some protests in the actually late 70s in China.
[19:49.160 --> 19:51.860]  There were a group protesting dissidents.
[19:52.560 --> 19:58.300]  And they were calling out to different embassies or media outlets or whatever.
[19:58.300 --> 20:05.580]  And they... the Chinese government in that province just basically cut off communication.
[20:05.760 --> 20:07.320]  Using switches, cut off communication.
[20:07.560 --> 20:13.240]  Phone phreaks in England were able to somehow get in there and turn those back on.
[20:13.780 --> 20:18.980]  And the Chinese government was so confident that they had turned it off, they didn't even monitor it.
[20:19.180 --> 20:21.780]  So they were trying to figure out where are these phone calls coming.
[20:22.040 --> 20:25.440]  Somebody just... somebody... they flipped off the switch, locked the door and went home.
[20:25.440 --> 20:29.040]  And then somebody else came in and turned on the switch and for them it was...
[20:29.040 --> 20:33.160]  So that was... the squad brigades was even a simpler form.
[20:33.260 --> 20:35.600]  This was mostly in Germany, Amsterdam.
[20:35.900 --> 20:42.160]  We have huge squads, social centers, everything from daycare to groups planning protests or whatnot.
[20:42.520 --> 20:45.780]  And you had it in Tompkins Square right here in New York.
[20:46.060 --> 20:47.560]  A strong squadron tradition.
[20:47.780 --> 20:49.860]  And that's the pictures actually from Tompkins.
[20:51.120 --> 20:52.760]  Is... they used a phone tree.
[20:53.320 --> 20:57.860]  You know, the cops would come to evict them, throw them out, and they would start to...
[20:58.720 --> 21:00.960]  They would each have a list of phone numbers and they would call.
[21:01.080 --> 21:03.780]  And then people that wanted to would come out onto the street.
[21:03.960 --> 21:05.840]  Kind of simple use of communication.
[21:07.240 --> 21:11.420]  Now with the Internet, of course, we have a variety of other ways to communicate.
[21:11.420 --> 21:16.340]  They've been very effective, both during disasters, protests, any types of crisis.
[21:16.740 --> 21:17.700]  Any time where the government...
[21:17.940 --> 21:20.460]  A crisis is just something the government wants to manage.
[21:21.940 --> 21:25.500]  Because of either... it's causing some kind of disruption.
[21:26.780 --> 21:33.500]  And Indymedia is... came out of really the Seattle WTO protests in 1999.
[21:33.500 --> 21:35.220]  It was important technology.
[21:35.420 --> 21:41.420]  It was really some of the first technology that was regularly available to average people.
[21:41.520 --> 21:44.460]  I know people had created this... this stuff before.
[21:44.720 --> 21:46.960]  But this was the first time it was widely used.
[21:47.100 --> 21:53.400]  You had more hits on Indymedia than CNN, ABC, and NBC put together on their website at the time.
[21:53.600 --> 21:55.900]  And what was... what was different about it?
[21:56.260 --> 21:57.360]  Anybody could post.
[21:57.940 --> 22:00.660]  I could say, this is what's happening on the street.
[22:00.660 --> 22:02.260]  I just got tear gassed.
[22:02.440 --> 22:03.660]  And I don't have to be a journalist.
[22:03.920 --> 22:05.240]  I don't have to be anybody.
[22:05.460 --> 22:06.140]  I'm just there.
[22:06.260 --> 22:09.020]  And I'm just communicating to the rest of the world.
[22:10.320 --> 22:12.640]  Wikipedia has been very... it's interesting.
[22:12.800 --> 22:15.880]  It's again, this kind of technology that gets used for other reasons.
[22:16.020 --> 22:17.840]  Because people are innovative and flexible.
[22:18.360 --> 22:30.620]  You know, during Katrina and during the earthquakes in Chile and Haiti and stuff like that, Wikipedia ended up becoming a place for people to give reports about what was going on.
[22:30.620 --> 22:32.100]  In close to real time.
[22:32.480 --> 22:35.020]  And even putting like, hi, this is Ellie Madison.
[22:35.580 --> 22:36.660]  I'm still alive.
[22:37.060 --> 22:37.540]  You know.
[22:37.900 --> 22:40.540]  So people would check these Wikipedias.
[22:40.660 --> 22:44.940]  In fact, now Wikipedia has created a whole different site just for...
[22:44.940 --> 22:47.240]  to be used during disasters and crises.
[22:47.240 --> 22:49.080]  Because they know that's what people will do.
[22:49.280 --> 22:50.600]  And then, of course, there's blogs.
[22:50.800 --> 22:53.320]  There were 144 blogs about Haiti.
[22:53.320 --> 22:55.960]  So now we have the rise of the blog.
[22:58.300 --> 23:09.880]  The thing I'm most interested in probably, and I think most people thinking about crisis and technology, is that I'm most interested in the people in the crisis.
[23:10.680 --> 23:22.960]  And the problem there is often, whether you're in a protest or whether you're trying to pick your way through a hurricane, you're not going to have your laptop or your desktop or your office computer.
[23:23.120 --> 23:28.080]  But a lot of people do have these things attached to them all the time, which are cell phones.
[23:28.080 --> 23:29.540]  So SMS and texting.
[23:30.180 --> 23:36.520]  And the top picture is a picture of a flash mob that was done in Germany to protest a war.
[23:36.620 --> 23:41.200]  And actually in Afghanistan, where they got a bunch of people to go together.
[23:41.420 --> 23:42.620]  And then they text them.
[23:42.720 --> 23:46.040]  Everybody lay down once they hit enough mass.
[23:46.160 --> 23:48.760]  And everybody laid down, freaked out the people at the train station.
[23:48.760 --> 23:49.420]  What's going on?
[23:49.520 --> 23:50.620]  Is there an attack or something?
[23:50.860 --> 23:52.480]  All these people just flopped down.
[23:52.700 --> 23:55.840]  The bottom picture is neighborhood medics.
[23:57.280 --> 23:59.980]  They've done it in Iraq, but this picture is from Palestine.
[24:00.380 --> 24:06.300]  And what this was is an idea that there may be an attack or a bomb or something like that.
[24:06.380 --> 24:08.160]  And the infrastructure was so destroyed.
[24:10.620 --> 24:12.240]  Ambulances, roads would be destroyed.
[24:12.400 --> 24:13.520]  There weren't a lot of ambulances.
[24:13.720 --> 24:17.660]  So they came up with this really ingenious idea that we'll just send out a text.
[24:18.740 --> 24:21.840]  We need a doctor on such and such street.
[24:22.640 --> 24:26.340]  And then if I were a doctor or a nurse, I would text back and say, Oh, I'm only two blocks.
[24:26.500 --> 24:26.900]  I'm going to come.
[24:28.260 --> 24:31.060]  And that is how they were doing medical care.
[24:31.240 --> 24:32.440]  And again, it's this kind of flex.
[24:32.720 --> 24:38.000]  Obviously, SMS and text and when these people developed this, they never had any plan for that to be used that way.
[24:38.900 --> 24:41.560]  Here's another piece of texting.
[24:41.560 --> 24:50.220]  Imagine a way for people all over the world to tell the story of what was happening to them or around them during a disaster or emergency situation.
[24:50.600 --> 24:52.600]  It would need to be easy to use.
[24:52.880 --> 24:54.740]  Something that almost anybody can do.
[24:54.940 --> 24:57.160]  And it would need to be deployable worldwide.
[24:57.560 --> 24:59.660]  And that's why we've created Ushahidi.
[25:00.280 --> 25:04.560]  Ushahidi is the Swahili word meaning testimony or witness.
[25:05.160 --> 25:06.780]  born from the post...
[25:06.780 --> 25:14.720]  So, everybody here know or raise your hand, though I won't be able to actually see it, if you've heard of Ushahidi.
[25:15.000 --> 25:17.480]  And so it looks like some have.
[25:17.820 --> 25:24.040]  This neat little program was from the violence in the Kenya elections, I think in 2008.
[25:26.120 --> 25:33.080]  And people were going to go to vote, but there were certain polling places that were just plain old dangerous to go.
[25:33.200 --> 25:36.460]  Because there were thugs on either side that would threaten you or kill you.
[25:36.540 --> 25:38.660]  And there were fires and things like that.
[25:39.760 --> 25:41.920]  And so they...
[25:41.920 --> 25:46.320]  This woman was blogging about it from Kenya, trying to get out information.
[25:46.460 --> 25:50.340]  At one point she asked, I need to be able to do this on the cell phone.
[25:50.340 --> 25:51.880]  I need to be able to get this on the cell phone.
[25:52.120 --> 25:53.600]  Can some people help me?
[25:53.660 --> 25:54.520]  Can some programmers help?
[25:54.700 --> 25:59.300]  And in less than 72 hours they created this platform, this open source platform.
[26:02.200 --> 26:03.140]  Ushahidi, thank you.
[26:04.260 --> 26:12.820]  Platform that would send text alerts to average people saying, this polling place is bad, don't go there, go to this one instead if you want to vote.
[26:13.020 --> 26:15.800]  And it was very effective in reducing the number of deaths.
[26:16.360 --> 26:20.320]  Since that time, because it was open source, it's been used all over the place.
[26:20.320 --> 26:27.300]  Not just for disasters, but also for things like the swine flu and avian flu epidemics.
[26:27.440 --> 26:28.520]  And they were able to map it.
[26:28.640 --> 26:36.260]  And because it's open source, they've created other applications like Swift River and things like that to improve the service.
[26:37.360 --> 26:38.320]  Something that...
[26:39.020 --> 26:43.720]  What's interesting is that it was open source and the government had their own kind of version of it.
[26:43.720 --> 26:49.020]  The State Department, which nobody knows about because it doesn't work for the most part.
[26:50.380 --> 26:51.920]  So that's all good news, right?
[26:52.080 --> 26:54.020]  So you give people some information.
[26:54.020 --> 26:55.640]  You give them a little bit of tools.
[26:55.840 --> 26:57.040]  You make it flexible enough.
[26:57.060 --> 26:58.380]  They're going to help each other out.
[26:58.500 --> 26:59.860]  They're going to share information.
[26:59.960 --> 27:01.900]  They're going to come up with creative needs.
[27:01.900 --> 27:04.520]  They're going to meet their needs creatively.
[27:04.860 --> 27:06.540]  And this happens.
[27:06.660 --> 27:07.180]  And that's great.
[27:07.780 --> 27:13.800]  Unfortunately, when you try to do this, sometimes the empire strikes back.
[27:14.640 --> 27:24.420]  There's a lot of desire of the state and corporations to manage these things, to manage people.
[27:24.940 --> 27:26.420]  And that is their agenda.
[27:26.540 --> 27:27.100]  And they're very clear.
[27:27.220 --> 27:28.020]  You can read the papers.
[27:28.020 --> 27:29.280]  You can see it's very clear.
[27:30.800 --> 27:32.940]  And that's not just our country.
[27:33.640 --> 27:34.740]  It's a lot of countries.
[27:35.000 --> 27:38.760]  Madova, they made using Twitter illegal.
[27:39.720 --> 27:40.580]  Just straight up.
[27:40.680 --> 27:43.380]  No matter what, you're Twittering, you know, whatever you wanted.
[27:43.540 --> 27:44.500]  They tried to make it illegal.
[27:46.560 --> 28:06.200]  Pittsburgh, which I have some familiarity with since I was arrested with a co-defendant in Pittsburgh for allegedly sending out Twitter messages, rebroadcasting or retweeting messages coming from the street during the G20 protests in Pittsburgh.
[28:06.960 --> 28:11.560]  There's some talk that they're going to try to do that to some folks also in Canada.
[28:11.760 --> 28:13.440]  And then, of course, WikiLeaks, right?
[28:13.880 --> 28:15.100]  The most famous.
[28:15.620 --> 28:19.820]  So we see that there's this kind of this desire to manage.
[28:20.740 --> 28:22.400]  But it's also hypocritical.
[28:22.640 --> 28:29.440]  Because during the Iranian protests, you'll see a different view of social networking.
[28:30.700 --> 28:31.380]  Or maybe not.
[28:32.340 --> 28:33.100]  No, you'll see it.
[28:33.200 --> 28:34.000]  No, you will see it.
[28:35.240 --> 28:37.300]  Sorry, the music's a lot too bad.
[28:48.990 --> 28:51.730]  Has Twitter become the CNN of the masses?
[28:51.730 --> 28:54.390]  Well, it's a combination of Internet sources, clearly.
[28:54.630 --> 28:58.530]  I mean, Twitter stands out as one of the primary ways that people are getting the message from the street.
[28:58.750 --> 29:02.630]  Users can keep track of where the demos are and what's going on.
[29:03.010 --> 29:04.070]  President George W. Bush's Deputy National Security Advisor, Mark Feisley.
[29:07.410 --> 29:19.650]  The real winners in this and the people that have gotten the message out, even though the U.S., with some exceptions, has been fairly quiet, has been the Twitter, has been Facebook, Flickr, YouTube, all of those.
[29:19.790 --> 29:32.870]  If there's anybody that should possibly get a Nobel Peace Prize in the next time around, it should be the founders of Twitter who delayed their tuning up of their system in order for an amazing amount of tweets to be sent out over the last week or so.
[29:32.870 --> 29:36.050]  Twitter revolution and has now got the attention of the Pentagon.
[29:36.470 --> 29:36.870]  The U.S. military may not fully understand social networking, but they are using it to think very differently about the world.
[29:44.410 --> 29:46.070]  Twitter was so important, the U.S. State Department actually asked the website to put off scheduled computer maintenance.
[29:50.210 --> 29:57.050]  If you take into consideration that Twitter actually agreed to shut down its scheduled maintenance the other day because the U.S. State Department requested that to happen because it's such a crucial tool.
[30:00.630 --> 30:11.470]  Using Twitter, YouTube, texting, cell phone videos, any social media they can to mobilize and tell the world what's happening in their country.
[30:11.730 --> 30:20.390]  It's a communications revolution with global implications for repressive governments trying to control the Internet and social networking.
[30:20.390 --> 30:26.410]  Well, Ken, the FBI has raided an apartment in Queens, New York belonging to a man named Elliot Madison.
[30:26.410 --> 30:34.650]  This after police arrested Madison here for using the social networking site Twitter to communicate police actions to protesters.
[30:35.230 --> 30:41.950]  Over the weekend, a planned upgrade to Twitter was even postponed in the interests of democracy for Iranians.
[30:41.950 --> 30:50.410]  Now, two of the activists are charged with using cell phones and the social networking website Twitter to help protesters avoid getting rounded up by police.
[30:50.630 --> 30:54.570]  This is about giving their voices a chance to be heard.
[30:54.850 --> 30:58.290]  I order all those assembled to immediately disperse.
[30:58.290 --> 31:08.850]  When police confronted protesters in Lawrenceville on the first day of the G20, they had many non-lethal weapons at their disposal, including SWAT trucks and OC gas.
[31:09.130 --> 31:12.190]  But police say the protesters had aides of their own.
[31:12.630 --> 31:17.230]  Text communications telling them where the police were and how to avoid them.
[31:17.550 --> 31:21.690]  They said it was coming from a man named Elliot Madison of Queens, New York.
[31:23.630 --> 31:27.090]  So you get the idea of the kind of hypocrisy between the two.
[31:32.680 --> 31:42.500]  I should say, too, that the raid was, just to give you an idea, this is not just some local police kind of thing.
[31:43.860 --> 31:49.700]  Our home, and I say our home because there was a number of people living there, a bunch of animals also.
[31:50.720 --> 31:57.760]  Our home was raided by the Joint Terrorist Task Force, was raided for 16 hours.
[31:58.200 --> 32:08.120]  And we are still possibly under grand jury investigation, though we were never indicted for any crime.
[32:08.420 --> 32:12.980]  But they still possess all of our computers and cell phones and things like that.
[32:13.700 --> 32:23.160]  Apparently, all because of this kind of activity that was two months earlier praised by the, you know, the Iranian protesters for doing this.
[32:23.360 --> 32:28.280]  But regardless, this is an example of a crisis that they're seeking to manage.
[32:28.420 --> 32:33.500]  Whether it's the government of Moldova or the government in the US.
[32:33.760 --> 32:41.360]  I mean, this should not be news to you that repressive regimes want to manage information at all costs.
[32:41.360 --> 32:47.880]  So now I'm going to turn it over to HackBlock people, and they're going to talk about some ways that they're working to get around this.
[32:55.310 --> 32:55.790]  Hi.
[32:58.750 --> 33:03.570]  HackBlock got together a while back and developed this piece of software called Tapateo.
[33:03.710 --> 33:07.110]  It was being developed right around the same time that Ushahidi was coming out.
[33:08.810 --> 33:15.090]  There are some unique requirements when you're developing a project not in a corporate environment.
[33:15.090 --> 33:20.850]  And there's some expectations that you can't take for granted.
[33:21.290 --> 33:22.870]  For example, zero development budget.
[33:23.710 --> 33:26.330]  This is often... this has been my experience.
[33:26.950 --> 33:32.770]  So you're going to have to figure out a way to keep the code coming and pay rent at the same time.
[33:33.150 --> 33:38.830]  Another requirement for the project was to dispatch information to people requiring zero budget for the end users as well.
[33:38.830 --> 33:49.110]  Meaning that, you know, like ham radios or other type of shortwave phones or radios would be prohibitively inexpensive.
[33:49.530 --> 33:55.030]  It was a requirement that it would be very easy for people to get this message without having to fork over a lot of money.
[33:55.750 --> 34:05.910]  Also, there was a requirement that there was a CRUD interface like a create, review, update, delete that's common with many blogs.
[34:06.850 --> 34:16.230]  This way, it provided for an environment where a team of operators could sit and collect information from people out in the field, out in the streets.
[34:16.850 --> 34:19.070]  Review it for accuracy and so on.
[34:19.410 --> 34:19.950]  Vote on it.
[34:20.370 --> 34:21.350]  Categorize it possibly.
[34:22.070 --> 34:27.130]  And then finally, send it out to people who are interested in specific types of information.
[34:27.390 --> 34:30.630]  There's many information that come in during a big mobilization.
[34:30.950 --> 34:32.710]  And you may not be interested in all of them.
[34:32.770 --> 34:36.050]  You may only be interested in, like, when am I getting fed?
[34:37.390 --> 34:38.990]  Or where are the police?
[34:39.230 --> 34:41.590]  Or what's happening in this section of the city?
[34:41.590 --> 34:46.370]  Or medics may be interested in, where are people hurt that need help?
[34:48.510 --> 34:51.370]  And there was another assumption, actually, too, that, like...
[34:51.370 --> 35:09.390]  And so, as a result of this, we ended up deciding on Twitter on the back end because it provides a nice API to SMS interface, which wasn't really available in other applications, like Identica provides a similar microblogging interface, but it doesn't have a built-out SMS back end.
[35:10.210 --> 35:11.550]  So we decided to use Twitter.
[35:12.310 --> 35:16.530]  But one of the situations was that we knew that there was going to have to be a lot of requirements.
[35:16.910 --> 35:18.190]  Like, people hadn't heard of Twitter.
[35:18.390 --> 35:19.550]  Like, they had never used of it.
[35:19.650 --> 35:30.990]  So concepts that may be familiar to people, like direct messaging, or using an at and then username to get messages visible to people, aren't necessarily going to be intuitive.
[35:32.390 --> 35:35.650]  People are going to have difficulties with things like using underscores.
[35:35.650 --> 35:42.950]  So, you know, like, it's important to, like, not make assumptions of other people's tech uses.
[35:43.090 --> 35:47.130]  So we had this assumption that they wouldn't necessarily know how to use these things.
[35:48.410 --> 36:07.410]  Tapatio is probably going to be around for a little bit longer, but it's probably going to phase out in support of the Ushahidi project because there's already support for Android, iPhone, J2ME devices on handsets for collecting and dispatching not just text information but graphical information about where things are happening.
[36:07.790 --> 36:09.190]  You can find out more about the...
[36:09.190 --> 36:11.330]  Oh, and the Tapatio, it's a Drupal module.
[36:11.470 --> 36:19.250]  It runs on Drupal because Drupal already provided, like, the basis for a CRUD interface and it allowed a way to authenticate operators and stuff like this.
[36:19.610 --> 36:22.030]  And it shortened our development time.
[36:22.730 --> 36:22.830]  Next.
[36:23.190 --> 36:24.130]  Skunks are awesome.
[36:24.450 --> 36:25.050]  Next.
[36:27.070 --> 36:33.410]  So I have some reflections on deployments and developing in these scenarios.
[36:33.850 --> 36:43.330]  If you have experience developing for a company that has... a development company, you may have some of these ideas already ingrained on you.
[36:45.350 --> 36:54.990]  But if not, they can be hard to learn and you can end up learning them by providing services or tools that ultimately can't be used because there's a failure along the way.
[36:55.410 --> 37:04.590]  And oftentimes in development, there's... as some developers out here may know, you know, you're going to be testing yourself as you're writing the code and bugs aren't going to come up but then you deploy the application.
[37:04.970 --> 37:08.270]  And next thing you know, like, everything goes down and nobody can use the service.
[37:08.270 --> 37:13.030]  So it was really important that we didn't have any single points of failure or SPOFs.
[37:14.430 --> 37:15.810]  Centralization is really bad.
[37:17.470 --> 37:24.110]  Especially... and the other situation with developing these types of software is, especially with a security concern, is your security is not always the same.
[37:24.210 --> 37:28.610]  You might not be worried about, like, hackers and bots attacking your net.
[37:28.770 --> 37:33.730]  You're specifically worried about organizations and institutions that have lots of money.
[37:33.810 --> 37:35.370]  They have a political system.
[37:35.470 --> 37:36.390]  They have a legal system.
[37:36.390 --> 37:42.870]  They have guns and they're authorized to use whatever force they need to at times to stop what you're doing.
[37:43.590 --> 37:51.850]  So centralization in this case, if somebody finds out... if your servers find out where it is, they can just come in and shut it down and then communications go down.
[37:51.970 --> 37:52.350]  That's bad.
[37:52.790 --> 37:53.930]  You don't want that to happen.
[37:55.170 --> 37:59.810]  Mutual aid is something that can be really helpful and this goes into, like, not redesigning the wheel.
[38:01.770 --> 38:17.870]  Using... leveraging other people's tools and building a relationship within their development communities, submitting bugs to them, to their projects, and letting them know about what you're doing with their tools will be really helpful when you run into a situation when you start finding bugs at the last minute and you need help.
[38:18.450 --> 38:26.110]  If you build this relationship ahead of time, the people that you're working with will be more likely to come back and help you, and help you find the bugs that are happening out.
[38:26.670 --> 38:28.730]  Test load of the application ahead of time.
[38:28.850 --> 38:30.170]  Plan ahead as much as you can.
[38:32.310 --> 38:35.250]  Security should be designed to protect the users.
[38:36.410 --> 38:38.210]  Don't invite snitches into your space.
[38:38.330 --> 38:47.850]  This can be easier said than done, but, you know, you can set up security policies and the people that you're working with may already have security policies.
[38:48.250 --> 39:02.570]  And knowing what those policies are and if you have a secure space, keeping that space safe, you know, like don't invite somebody into your space to help out with the ham radio who's like never set anything up, who is later going to turn over the whole ham radio operation over to the feds.
[39:03.130 --> 39:05.470]  And ham radios may be a little bit outdated anymore.
[39:05.650 --> 39:07.350]  I don't see any reason why we should still be...
[39:07.350 --> 39:10.590]  or low power FM radio or pirate radio stations.
[39:10.870 --> 39:13.630]  Nobody really has an FM transmitter anymore, which is unfortunate.
[39:13.770 --> 39:18.330]  But actually these can be really useful in other situations like what Smokey was talking about, crisis situations.
[39:18.510 --> 39:20.130]  So I guess it really depends on your deployment.
[39:20.910 --> 39:22.610]  But anyways, don't invite snitches in.
[39:22.610 --> 39:24.510]  Project managers are awesome.
[39:24.850 --> 39:29.050]  We had a great project manager in the development of Tapatio Impact.
[39:29.710 --> 39:30.030]  I'm not sure.
[39:30.390 --> 39:31.830]  They may have had to... and he just left.
[39:32.150 --> 39:33.150]  But he was a great project manager.
[39:33.270 --> 39:43.850]  It helps out especially if there's not many developers helping you out to have somebody to back ideas off of as you're developing and to make sure that like all the project requirements are getting done on time.
[39:45.830 --> 39:47.410]  Oh, secure remote access.
[39:47.530 --> 39:52.910]  There may be situations in deployments where you need to send physical computers for a deployment.
[39:53.050 --> 39:56.710]  You may not be like the on-site sysadmin for one of these applications.
[39:56.950 --> 40:03.530]  And you may need to send boxes into a hostile environment where police are confiscating things, taking hard drives, and so forth.
[40:03.890 --> 40:06.650]  And so making sure that you use full disk encryption.
[40:07.110 --> 40:16.350]  And HackBlock has a number of tools which I'll make sure that go up on the notes that I guess are going to be downloaded from... or available from the HOPE website.
[40:16.570 --> 40:23.310]  That when you deploy the site, that the person who receives it will need to have the password for decrypting the drive.
[40:23.470 --> 40:30.590]  But then once it comes online, it will call back in through a Tor service and set up a remote shell on your control server.
[40:30.770 --> 40:33.590]  There's some of the techniques that actually aren't even used in botnets.
[40:33.750 --> 40:35.970]  I don't know if anybody went to the Crimeware presentation yesterday.
[40:36.230 --> 40:42.010]  But, you know, secure ways to get out and not disclose the information of where the control and command is.
[40:42.590 --> 40:43.150]  Next.
[40:43.410 --> 40:44.410]  Raccoons are neat too.
[40:44.570 --> 40:45.050]  I like those.
[40:45.330 --> 40:45.670]  Next.
[40:47.770 --> 40:57.770]  So the March Hare Communications Collective is a collective that is hoping to provide communications tools to radical communities.
[40:57.770 --> 41:03.230]  And not just to radical communities, but they'll possibly also be able to use in other times of crisis.
[41:04.410 --> 41:09.570]  Right now, it's going to be built on Ushihiri Swift River, which Smokey mentioned.
[41:09.730 --> 41:17.370]  Part of the Tapatio project was collecting in information from Twitter, from people who had subscribed to certain feeds.
[41:17.790 --> 41:24.390]  And using... trying to do our own type of crowd sourcing as well, like to get information from people who were posting information.
[41:24.890 --> 41:27.930]  But Swift River, they've built in a bunch of AI.
[41:28.110 --> 41:30.410]  They have a much larger developer base.
[41:30.550 --> 41:33.210]  And so we'll be using that and customizing those tools.
[41:33.210 --> 41:38.290]  And like I said, there's already support for clients on smartphones.
[41:38.570 --> 41:43.610]  And granted, smartphones aren't super accessible now because of the price.
[41:43.610 --> 41:47.710]  But I think we'll see that as we go into the future that the prices are going to drop.
[41:47.890 --> 41:50.990]  And almost all phones now support J2ME anyways.
[41:51.230 --> 41:53.230]  And there's clients available for those phones.
[41:53.610 --> 41:56.810]  More information about March Hare can be found at marchhare.org.
[41:56.950 --> 41:58.110]  And we're looking for help.
[41:58.290 --> 42:01.090]  And like, there's all sorts of ways that you can help.
[42:01.090 --> 42:02.610]  You don't have to be a sysadmin.
[42:02.730 --> 42:03.790]  You don't have to be a developer.
[42:05.010 --> 42:06.990]  Maybe you can install an application on your phone.
[42:07.110 --> 42:13.970]  Maybe you can install an instance of our customized software that we're going to be writing on your computer and give us bug reports.
[42:14.270 --> 42:15.190]  Bug reports are awesome.
[42:15.330 --> 42:16.230]  Patches are even better.
[42:17.410 --> 42:21.190]  Also, like, I'm not very good at graphic design or outreach.
[42:21.350 --> 42:23.750]  Like, maybe you want to be a cheerleader for the project.
[42:23.850 --> 42:24.590]  That would be great, too.
[42:25.170 --> 42:26.570]  We need help writing docs.
[42:26.570 --> 42:27.890]  General tech support.
[42:28.050 --> 42:30.310]  Maybe you're, like, a very specialized developer.
[42:30.510 --> 42:32.720]  And you know a lot about some specific technology.
[42:33.530 --> 42:35.110]  Maybe you could get in touch with me afterwards.
[42:35.330 --> 42:37.170]  And you could be, like, hey, I know about this technology.
[42:37.390 --> 42:41.050]  And if you need help getting up and running, this seems like something you might want to be using.
[42:42.090 --> 42:44.610]  You can talk to me and I'll offer support.
[42:46.110 --> 42:46.490]  Next.
[42:47.070 --> 42:48.070]  Oh, badgers.
[42:49.650 --> 42:50.410]  That's all I have.
[42:50.710 --> 42:50.950]  Ringo?
[43:00.940 --> 43:02.380]  So, can everyone hear me all right?
[43:02.520 --> 43:02.900]  15 minutes.
[43:03.100 --> 43:03.220]  Thank you.
[43:04.340 --> 43:09.340]  You kind of ended his talk by talking about giving back to the community here and getting involved.
[43:09.380 --> 43:15.060]  And I want to kind of talk about how the hacker ethic plays into the way we relate to each other as a hacking community.
[43:16.500 --> 43:17.620]  How many of you consider...
[43:18.440 --> 43:20.960]  Obviously, you all consider yourself to be labeled as hackers, right?
[43:21.400 --> 43:22.120]  Or most of you?
[43:23.120 --> 43:23.800]  No hands?
[43:26.460 --> 43:27.000]  A few.
[43:27.240 --> 43:27.600]  All right.
[43:28.240 --> 43:30.140]  How many of you consider yourselves to be...
[43:30.140 --> 43:31.440]  that hacking is a hobby to you?
[43:33.600 --> 43:35.440]  How many of you make Mad Bank doing hacking?
[43:37.500 --> 43:38.020]  Right on.
[43:40.620 --> 43:42.880]  So, hobbyism to me is something that's fun.
[43:43.040 --> 43:43.740]  It's like an activity you do.
[43:43.860 --> 43:47.120]  Like, you might play a sport or you might, you know, tinker with things.
[43:47.240 --> 43:48.200]  And to me, that's a hobby.
[43:48.480 --> 43:55.460]  And I think hobbyism is the tendency to make hobbies completely isolated from everything else that's going on in the world.
[43:55.960 --> 43:59.080]  I think a really good example of this is Burning Man, where you have...
[43:59.080 --> 44:00.600]  Has anyone here been to Burning Man?
[44:00.840 --> 44:01.360]  Oh, yeah.
[44:01.980 --> 44:02.280]  All right.
[44:02.340 --> 44:02.520]  Cool.
[44:03.140 --> 44:05.760]  Burning Man's a festival where everyone goes out to the desert.
[44:05.920 --> 44:07.260]  They, you know, drive hundreds of miles.
[44:07.400 --> 44:09.840]  Sometimes they take bikes or crazy contraptions over there.
[44:10.440 --> 44:11.980]  And there's no monetary exchange.
[44:12.180 --> 44:14.140]  Everybody just brings a skill they have.
[44:14.280 --> 44:14.840]  Maybe they're good at cooking.
[44:14.980 --> 44:16.360]  Maybe they're really good with massages.
[44:16.500 --> 44:17.760]  They know medical work.
[44:18.120 --> 44:19.500]  Or they can set up a radio system.
[44:19.760 --> 44:21.200]  Everyone kind of brings their own skills to it.
[44:21.600 --> 44:26.200]  And anyone who's been to Burning Man will tell you, it was a life-changing experience to see a community that runs like that.
[44:26.360 --> 44:29.000]  And it only costs a couple thousand dollars these days to get there.
[44:29.000 --> 44:29.480]  Exactly.
[44:31.840 --> 44:32.720]  We're getting into that.
[44:33.680 --> 44:35.680]  And in order for Burning Man to be...
[44:35.680 --> 44:38.220]  And at the end of Burning Man, they burn, you know, everything.
[44:38.360 --> 44:43.260]  They destroy all the things that they've brought because they want to get rid of the attachment people have to their belongings.
[44:43.860 --> 44:45.180]  Which is, you know, kind of noble.
[44:45.720 --> 44:58.920]  But what's really sad about Burning Man is that you have all these people with all these amazing skills and all this inspiration and apparently a lot of time on their hands who spend exorbitant amounts of money, exorbitant resources, many times not even their own resources from their community,
[44:59.140 --> 45:02.420]  bringing parts that were used in some type of community metalworking shop and things like that.
[45:02.660 --> 45:04.580]  And they bring it out to the desert and they destroy it.
[45:05.120 --> 45:07.160]  And they come back to their communities and Burning Man is over.
[45:07.240 --> 45:09.280]  It was only for that weekend or however long it lasts.
[45:09.640 --> 45:11.240]  And I think that's really sad.
[45:13.220 --> 45:16.740]  Because these communities are being drained of these resources and nobody is giving back to them.
[45:17.620 --> 45:22.980]  And I think that hope... I love hope, but I also want to talk about hobbyism within the scope of hope.
[45:24.180 --> 45:25.800]  It's really inspiring to come to hope.
[45:25.800 --> 45:30.520]  This is my second time here and to see everybody in such a trusting environment, everybody sharing with each other.
[45:30.740 --> 45:33.180]  There's tools and gadgets and things that people have made just left out.
[45:33.960 --> 45:40.320]  It's kind of understood that we all trust each other to deal with these things and not to steal them and not to break them and to be accountable to each other.
[45:40.420 --> 45:43.180]  And I think that's really inspiring to see all these bright minds here with all these ideas.
[45:44.960 --> 45:46.620]  But wouldn't it be cool if hope could be every day?
[45:47.540 --> 45:50.680]  What if we all had a circle of hackers in our community?
[45:50.700 --> 45:53.060]  What if we all went into the community and taught other people about hacking?
[45:53.960 --> 45:56.820]  It's common for us to share information with each other.
[45:57.060 --> 46:03.620]  But it's not so common for us to go outside of our little circle of friends and talk to other people about hacking and talk to other people about computing and security.
[46:05.260 --> 46:09.160]  And I think that part of the hacker ethic should be giving back to the community.
[46:09.260 --> 46:11.280]  There should be a social responsibility from that.
[46:12.200 --> 46:13.320]  So I'll take an example.
[46:13.500 --> 46:16.500]  Part of the hacker ethic is that most of us believe that information should be free.
[46:17.000 --> 46:17.980]  That's fairly vague.
[46:18.120 --> 46:21.460]  And I want to kind of ask the question, to whom should this information be free?
[46:21.940 --> 46:22.340]  Right?
[46:23.400 --> 46:27.720]  Elliot was talking about in New Orleans and other disaster situations where people are really hungry for information.
[46:27.880 --> 46:29.660]  People who don't have the ability to access it.
[46:31.220 --> 46:35.860]  We all know that corporations, governments, and people with lots of money already access information really easily.
[46:35.980 --> 46:37.320]  They have enough resources to do that.
[46:37.960 --> 46:41.560]  But it's the people that don't have the resources to do that that really need the information.
[46:41.560 --> 46:45.800]  That's who the information should be going to and that's what the kind of technologies we should be working on should do.
[46:48.240 --> 46:50.680]  And so I'll take an example of a doctor.
[46:50.880 --> 46:58.460]  If you're a doctor and you're in a restaurant and somebody's choking, it's expected that you're going to go give that person the Heimlich Maneuver and that you're going to save their life or at least make a good effort at it.
[46:58.560 --> 47:02.420]  And if you don't, you're seen as some type of wretched human being, if even that.
[47:03.960 --> 47:10.340]  And if you're a lawyer, you're expected to do pro bono work and to give, you know, your legal services to the public good and to give free representation to people.
[47:11.440 --> 47:13.420]  But in the hacker community, we don't really have that.
[47:13.580 --> 47:18.640]  We have the idea that we should give back to our own community, but we don't have the idea that we should give back to communities outside of ourselves.
[47:20.200 --> 47:24.120]  Luckily, there's a few hackers who kind of see this and there's some really cool projects that have arisen from this idea.
[47:24.560 --> 47:27.940]  One of them being FreeGeek, which is a project where hackers come together.
[47:28.200 --> 47:29.600]  Yeah, please give it up for FreeGeek.
[47:29.680 --> 47:30.500]  It's an amazing project.
[47:34.350 --> 47:36.450]  And this is a picture from someone at FreeGeek.
[47:36.990 --> 47:40.910]  Basically, what the project does is they collect old or partially broken computers and electronics.
[47:41.750 --> 47:45.190]  They recycle them and they give them to people who normally couldn't afford computers.
[47:45.350 --> 47:48.690]  And at the same time, they're educating people about computers and how they work.
[47:49.230 --> 47:59.450]  And anyone, even whether they're a hacker or not, is able to go in there and learn about computers and learn about what makes them so interesting and special, what leads us to be so fascinated with them at this conference.
[48:02.130 --> 48:05.590]  So community responsibility is ultimately based on trust.
[48:05.590 --> 48:07.230]  That's ultimately what communities are based on.
[48:08.310 --> 48:11.930]  What makes everyone in this room different from the people I see walking on the street?
[48:12.050 --> 48:13.270]  Why do I see you differently?
[48:13.450 --> 48:15.030]  And the reason is because I trust you and you trust me.
[48:15.970 --> 48:19.690]  I don't trust you like someone I've known for my entire life, but there's a certain level of trust in our community.
[48:21.850 --> 48:23.810]  More than the trust you'd have for the average person.
[48:24.150 --> 48:32.150]  And that's what makes a community is the ability for people to be able to communicate freely amongst each other without feeling like there's going to be some type of reprisal for their actions.
[48:34.070 --> 48:36.110]  And trust comes from consent, right?
[48:36.270 --> 48:49.350]  When you leave out your tools at HOPE, you know that no one's going to take it because it's understood through consent that nobody's going to take them and nobody's going to mess with their things and that people, if you speak your mind freely, hear that no one's going to hurt you for that.
[48:49.910 --> 48:51.150]  And that's based on consent.
[48:51.310 --> 48:53.790]  And sometimes consent is implicit and sometimes it's explicit.
[48:54.910 --> 49:08.690]  For example, doctors use what they call thorough consent, which means that if you're going to give a patient a medication, if you're going to give a patient a treatment, you have to tell the patient what the risks are, if it's going to complicate or interfere with other drugs they're taking.
[49:09.470 --> 49:11.170]  Or it's also called informed consent sometimes.
[49:11.370 --> 49:16.470]  And we also have consent in the realm of sexual activity, where it's very important to be explicit with consent.
[49:17.590 --> 49:21.890]  And I think lots of times we imply consent in situations where it shouldn't be implied.
[49:23.090 --> 49:30.790]  And I think that our values that we hold and our understanding that anonymity is an integral part of free speech.
[49:31.070 --> 49:36.810]  Because if you can't speak anonymously, you can't speak freely, and you can't speak your mind, because there might be someone who wanted to hurt you for that.
[49:37.270 --> 49:40.470]  And I think everyone at this conference values safety and privacy and anonymity.
[49:40.850 --> 49:43.710]  And for people in that community, that means not informing on your friends.
[49:46.550 --> 50:03.830]  So the question is, if there's people at this conference who have cooperated and sent some of us to jail, or hurt some of us, or participated in activities that have resulted in the destruction of part of the hacker community, I have to ask myself, is this conference what it's always been to me?
[50:05.530 --> 50:06.190]  This is hard.
[50:06.930 --> 50:10.150]  It's clear that federal agencies have drawn a line in the sand.
[50:10.150 --> 50:18.550]  The FBI, the Secret Service, the Department of Homeland Security, those in power see hackers as threats to their power.
[50:18.690 --> 50:21.570]  They see us as threats to society, threats to their management of information.
[50:22.110 --> 50:35.490]  When we do security research and we find a vulnerability in a commonly used protocol, we don't ask the people who designed the protocol, we don't ask the producer of the software if it's okay for us to ruin their reputation by showing that their software had flaws.
[50:35.490 --> 50:43.970]  It'd be nice if we told them beforehand before we released the information, but if they don't fix the flaw, it's our obligation to say something about that, to make that information free to those who are most affected by it.
[50:45.430 --> 50:48.190]  So that activity in and of itself is a threat to power.
[50:48.350 --> 50:51.010]  It's a threat to the people who want to manage information.
[50:51.730 --> 50:54.050]  So for us, the line in the sand has already been drawn.
[50:54.630 --> 50:57.510]  It's clear that there's them and there's us.
[50:57.610 --> 50:59.550]  We don't get to decide where this line is at this point.
[51:01.210 --> 51:08.850]  And so going with that, we have to understand that feds and cops, especially in the realm of hacking, are strangers to us.
[51:09.350 --> 51:10.230]  They're not hackers.
[51:10.370 --> 51:11.010]  They're not our friends.
[51:11.250 --> 51:16.170]  They're not here to learn about hacking or to engage in the thrill of exploration of technology.
[51:16.850 --> 51:18.730]  They're here to gather evidence to prosecute us.
[51:18.730 --> 51:21.310]  They're here to stop us from distributing information freely.
[51:22.130 --> 51:24.810]  They're here to stop us from doing exactly what we came here to do.
[51:24.950 --> 51:27.150]  And so for that reason, we should not talk to them.
[51:28.170 --> 51:29.230]  They have different intentions.
[51:35.920 --> 51:44.880]  I often ask people when talking about recent situations that have happened in our community, imagine if you had a job where you travel a lot and your house was left alone, your pets were there alone.
[51:45.100 --> 51:48.940]  You wanted to make sure that your house was safe, that your pets were alive when you got back.
[51:49.300 --> 51:56.500]  And you have a friend who comes over once a month to check on your animals and check on your house, to make sure that nothing has moved, nothing has been changed, the doors are locked.
[51:57.300 --> 52:02.280]  And that person can come to your house every day for a month, every day for a year and check on your house.
[52:02.940 --> 52:07.100]  But it only takes one time for that person to give the keys to someone else until you stop trusting them.
[52:07.760 --> 52:10.600]  In the hacker community, we need to have a similar approach to those who do that.
[52:12.460 --> 52:21.460]  And in conclusion, stronger communities with stronger participation from this community and other communities, when we get together, we're going to have a stronger hacker movement.
[52:21.600 --> 52:24.120]  And until that happens, division will constantly be a problem for us.
[52:24.340 --> 52:24.660]  Thank you.
[52:29.400 --> 52:41.660]  We don't have much time for questions, so we'll try to take a couple quick questions, and then we'll be around afterwards if you want to talk to us about crisis and technology.
[52:48.940 --> 52:49.400]  All right.
[52:50.300 --> 52:51.160]  Just had a question.
[52:51.380 --> 52:55.720]  I didn't know where you guys, where you were going with the statement that ham radio is kind of outdated.
[52:58.740 --> 53:01.840]  I just want to say, you know, I think you guys are doing great.
[53:02.540 --> 53:07.560]  Sometimes you have a full-scale disaster, though, where the cell networks are out, or they're jammed with people trying to make calls.
[53:08.080 --> 53:10.020]  Give me a car battery and a piece of wire.
[53:10.020 --> 53:18.880]  My little low-powered FM transmitter can reach someone in another city that can digitize a message and send it across the country to tell your family that you're safe.
[53:19.320 --> 53:20.840]  So I think it's always going to be an alternative.
[53:21.240 --> 53:22.360]  It's a good alternative.
[53:22.360 --> 53:24.560]  I'm also a licensed ham operator.
[53:25.260 --> 53:30.320]  We also... I think everybody up here has built transmitters and worked on it.
[53:31.760 --> 53:37.860]  I think what we're saying is that for different circumstances, it's not easily accessible to everybody.
[53:37.860 --> 53:41.400]  Like it once was, where everybody could turn into radio.
[53:41.560 --> 53:42.360]  But yes, it's great.
[53:42.540 --> 53:43.580]  And that's why we had Ares.
[53:43.780 --> 53:44.820]  We're big fans of Ares.
[53:45.080 --> 53:45.440]  Sure.
[53:45.580 --> 53:45.720]  Thanks.
[53:45.720 --> 53:46.580]  I just wanted to clarify.
[53:46.780 --> 53:47.100]  Thank you.
[53:47.280 --> 53:48.180]  Thanks for doing what you do.
[53:50.800 --> 53:51.400]  Hi.
[53:51.800 --> 53:57.660]  So I was in New Orleans doing tech work after Katrina with Common Ground for a while.
[53:58.000 --> 54:08.140]  And while the sort of external structure of it did a lot of useful stuff and a lot of very important stuff happened, inside it was kind of a clusterf*ck.
[54:08.600 --> 54:18.640]  And I think it's really hard and it takes a lot of practice to be able to form cohesive communities in tough times.
[54:18.740 --> 54:22.240]  And I'm wondering how we can get good at that.
[54:22.400 --> 54:28.820]  By what means can we get good at having real life communities and like maintaining structures that work.
[54:28.820 --> 54:33.160]  And don't just do external stuff but are also like healthy for people inside them.
[54:33.880 --> 54:35.400]  Thanks for that question.
[54:35.660 --> 54:44.360]  Actually, one of the things that we didn't mention is that our little group, Aftershock After Alliance, Action Alliance, is a New York based group.
[54:44.540 --> 54:56.640]  And some of what we learned in our participation in the relief work in Katrina is that it's really important to be supporting people in their community, in place, and not be an outsider.
[54:56.640 --> 55:02.020]  Even when you come with the best of intentions, it's always a problem when you're coming from the outside.
[55:02.300 --> 55:17.800]  So our goal is really to be training and communicating and talking to our neighbors in our communities now before something bad happens or something that is perceived as a crisis as opposed to when everything is in total disarray.
[55:17.800 --> 55:22.600]  So we totally agree that it's very difficult to do it with outsiders.
[55:22.600 --> 55:26.620]  And we are training other communities and we're giving trainings to other people.
[55:26.620 --> 55:29.180]  And we are helping people form their own groups.
[55:29.360 --> 55:46.460]  And I think the thing to remember too is that with Katrina was the really first time that this type of community, unlike the amateur radio community which had been doing this forever, it was the first time that this type of community came together for a natural disaster.
[55:47.140 --> 55:57.880]  And I think some of the things that March Hare and stuff are working on is to try to get more and more people using it, not just when there's a natural disaster, but at other times.
[55:57.880 --> 56:01.300]  So when there is a need, it can easily flow into that.
[56:03.300 --> 56:03.780]  Practice.
[56:03.780 --> 56:03.920]  Practice.
[56:07.900 --> 56:20.710]  I was just wondering if you were familiar with any channels or networks that you'd recommend using to make sure that supplies reach like disaster areas and also countries that are unshippable, like Myanmar, things like that.
[56:22.700 --> 56:28.240]  I think one of the things that we're trying to work on is, you know, we're more...
[56:29.080 --> 56:35.080]  This panel was more about information, but there is good information on supplies.
[56:35.080 --> 56:37.320]  You can go to our website, Aftershock Action.
[56:37.710 --> 56:42.860]  I know Google.org just released a tool for resource management in crisis.
[56:43.240 --> 56:44.640]  It's called Resource Finder, I think.
[56:44.760 --> 56:46.880]  Can you repeat that on the mic so that we capture it in the video?
[56:47.360 --> 56:47.800]  Somebody?
[56:50.480 --> 56:51.840]  Resourcefinder.com from Google?
[56:52.380 --> 56:56.480]  Yeah, it's a thing called Resource Finder, which just got released by Google.org.
[56:56.780 --> 57:01.780]  And it's supposed to be like, we've got, you know, an orthopedic surgeon here.
[57:01.780 --> 57:06.640]  We've got a patient who's got a screwed up foot over here and linking them together.
[57:06.880 --> 57:08.540]  And I think that's kind of what you're talking about.
[57:08.740 --> 57:15.680]  Well, one of our concerns is that we don't actually know what the attitude of Google is towards grassroots organizing.
[57:15.680 --> 57:26.080]  And they're obviously very open with the information that they're collecting on people and sharing it with law enforcement and other agencies that we may not want to share that information with.
[57:26.940 --> 57:28.560]  Maybe it's time for one more question, guys.
[57:28.740 --> 57:28.980]  That's it.
[57:29.260 --> 57:29.820]  More questions.
[57:29.820 --> 57:34.480]  Just before the last question goes, we have some literature up here.
[57:35.380 --> 57:36.320]  Hackbox produces a zine.
[57:36.380 --> 57:40.460]  There's also some information from them about the collective and what they're doing in New York and how to get involved.
[57:40.780 --> 57:43.820]  So if you're interested in working on this kind of stuff, come look at what we have.
[57:43.940 --> 57:44.600]  Come talk to us.
[57:44.640 --> 57:47.080]  And we also have a table downstairs near the express elevator.
[57:48.700 --> 57:49.020]  Okay.
[57:49.020 --> 57:55.180]  In reference to the concerns about using Google services, you're using Twitter for a lot of this stuff.
[57:55.480 --> 57:57.020]  How do you feel about that?
[57:57.560 --> 57:59.800]  Do you feel you can trust that organization to not reveal?
[58:00.520 --> 58:01.000]  No.
[58:01.140 --> 58:01.700]  Thank you for asking.
[58:01.760 --> 58:02.800]  I actually didn't speak to that.
[58:03.060 --> 58:04.710]  We can't trust Twitter, in fact.
[58:05.140 --> 58:07.540]  And we had two mechanisms for dealing with that.
[58:07.640 --> 58:12.320]  One was asking folks who were using and participating to buy anonymous phones with cash.
[58:12.320 --> 58:18.100]  And recently we had an experience where Twitter started shutting off our feeds.
[58:18.300 --> 58:27.040]  And so now we're planning on using other back ends, whether that's directly wiring in cell phones or using a service like...
[58:31.050 --> 58:32.190]  I can't remember.
[58:32.490 --> 58:38.470]  But there's services similar with an API to SMS gateway that we're looking to.
[58:39.070 --> 58:41.090]  Not Identica, not GeoCat.
[58:41.630 --> 58:42.290]  NeoChat.
[58:42.830 --> 58:44.750]  Maybe NeoChat, not familiar with that.
[58:45.230 --> 58:46.150]  I can't remember.
[58:46.950 --> 58:53.850]  Also, are you aware that in Europe, people are now working on software for Rogue, GSM nodes?
[58:54.150 --> 58:58.990]  And to actually be able to create your own infrastructure using open source hardware and software?
[58:59.290 --> 59:00.010]  That's great news.
[59:00.390 --> 59:01.290]  Can we talk afterwards?
[59:01.350 --> 59:01.490]  Yes.
[59:02.310 --> 59:02.570]  All right.
[59:02.630 --> 59:03.310]  Thank you, everyone.
[59:06.170 --> 59:08.650]  Thank you, Next HOPE, for having us.