[00:22.070 --> 00:23.230]  Thank you.
[00:23.550 --> 00:24.130]  Awesome.
[00:24.790 --> 00:24.890]  Alright.
[00:26.190 --> 00:27.250]  This is Christina Pei.
[00:27.310 --> 00:27.830]  She's awesome.
[00:31.490 --> 00:32.510]  Actually, you're wrong.
[00:32.590 --> 00:33.170]  I'm fabulous.
[00:36.850 --> 00:37.430]  Okay.
[00:37.430 --> 00:38.670]  Can everyone hear me okay?
[00:39.530 --> 00:39.890]  Alright.
[00:40.070 --> 00:40.310]  Awesome.
[00:40.590 --> 00:42.610]  This is really awkward, being at a podium and everything.
[00:43.290 --> 00:43.490]  Okay.
[00:43.930 --> 00:44.690]  So, let's get started.
[00:47.150 --> 00:47.510]  Here.
[00:47.790 --> 00:47.890]  Alright.
[00:47.950 --> 00:49.830]  For a little intro for those of you who don't know who I am.
[00:50.930 --> 00:52.870]  This is where I started my career at.
[00:53.650 --> 00:56.250]  Working with Wall Street finance people.
[00:56.410 --> 00:58.450]  And it was the most boring thing on the planet.
[00:58.810 --> 01:02.390]  And I wanted something to save my soul, so I decided to change my career.
[01:02.610 --> 01:03.790]  And this is what I do now.
[01:05.030 --> 01:09.450]  This is a sample of some of the kids I taught on one of our many field trips.
[01:10.070 --> 01:11.790]  And this is the kind of stuff I taught.
[01:12.490 --> 01:16.170]  And I did that in New York City for a couple years.
[01:16.470 --> 01:20.890]  And then, now I'm moving to teach in this city, Chicago.
[01:21.170 --> 01:21.710]  The windy one.
[01:21.770 --> 01:22.410]  The second city.
[01:22.990 --> 01:24.630]  For the University of Chicago.
[01:24.910 --> 01:26.490]  For this guy, the math pirate.
[01:26.490 --> 01:30.710]  And very often, he does get confused with a real pirate.
[01:30.890 --> 01:34.450]  Because, you know, he's got the peg leg and eye patch thing going on.
[01:35.270 --> 01:36.670]  First lesson he taught me.
[01:38.070 --> 01:40.210]  Math plus pirate.
[01:40.710 --> 01:41.550]  That's awesome.
[01:42.990 --> 01:43.470]  Yeah.
[01:43.770 --> 01:44.750]  Always remember that one.
[01:44.870 --> 01:46.110]  Most important formula in mathematics.
[01:47.010 --> 01:47.270]  Okay.
[01:47.630 --> 01:48.930]  And then, going to Chicago.
[01:49.230 --> 01:50.750]  Also introduced me to pumping station one.
[01:50.870 --> 01:52.950]  This is my introduction to hackerspaces.
[01:53.130 --> 01:54.790]  If you saw me yesterday, I was wearing that shirt.
[01:54.790 --> 01:56.150]  Eric Michaud changed my life.
[01:56.290 --> 01:57.050]  This is how you did it.
[01:57.230 --> 01:58.890]  He introduced me to pumping station one.
[02:01.650 --> 02:02.270]  Oh, yeah.
[02:02.510 --> 02:02.990]  Is he here?
[02:03.510 --> 02:04.230]  I didn't know.
[02:04.350 --> 02:06.090]  Oh, gotta poke jabs at that guy.
[02:06.430 --> 02:06.630]  All right.
[02:06.850 --> 02:07.710]  So, hackers.
[02:08.070 --> 02:08.890]  What do they do?
[02:09.390 --> 02:09.890]  All right.
[02:10.070 --> 02:12.350]  So, a hacker sees things like tools, right?
[02:12.550 --> 02:14.310]  And this is what they want to do with it.
[02:14.430 --> 02:17.610]  They want to take it apart to every single piece that they can see.
[02:17.610 --> 02:20.830]  And then they want to rebuild it into something awesomer.
[02:21.950 --> 02:22.470]  Yeah.
[02:25.050 --> 02:25.570]  Okay.
[02:25.870 --> 02:26.810]  So, the real world.
[02:27.130 --> 02:27.470]  Oh, no.
[02:27.890 --> 02:30.390]  This is what happens to education in the real world.
[02:30.650 --> 02:32.510]  So, we have a classroom, students.
[02:32.910 --> 02:35.810]  And the teachers kind of like this.
[02:35.970 --> 02:38.410]  Repeat, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.
[02:38.590 --> 02:39.450]  Wash your hands.
[02:40.030 --> 02:40.670]  All right.
[02:40.810 --> 02:44.790]  And this is what happens to us at the end of 12 years of public education.
[02:46.430 --> 02:47.810]  We all know how that feels.
[02:47.990 --> 02:52.690]  And this is what teachers end up like at the end of their long and happy careers.
[02:53.450 --> 02:54.670]  And, okay.
[02:54.930 --> 02:57.330]  But here's part of the issue, all right?
[02:57.490 --> 03:02.190]  It's that we have a really test-centric education system.
[03:02.510 --> 03:04.530]  And tests really suck.
[03:05.710 --> 03:10.590]  Most tests have questions for which the answer is, who gives a shit?
[03:11.030 --> 03:11.570]  All right.
[03:11.690 --> 03:14.530]  So, C is, as usual, always correct.
[03:15.110 --> 03:15.830]  All right.
[03:16.270 --> 03:17.830]  They're also really ambiguous.
[03:18.270 --> 03:18.650]  Right?
[03:18.750 --> 03:20.010]  How many of you guys have seen this?
[03:21.950 --> 03:22.930]  Yeah, right?
[03:23.670 --> 03:25.530]  And it's not this...
[03:26.450 --> 03:28.870]  It's not just this case that's ambiguous.
[03:29.130 --> 03:39.350]  There are a lot of questions that are written by people sitting in rooms who don't really understand mathematics, nor children, nor people, nor human interaction.
[03:40.010 --> 03:46.490]  And they write questions that really have no real-world or sensical answer whatsoever.
[03:47.490 --> 03:58.010]  I had a really popular case when I was teaching when they got a question that was a really basic, like, popcorn, which is more of a better deal.
[03:58.010 --> 04:05.950]  You go into a movie theater, there's a really small bucket that costs $3, and a really big bucket that's, like, four times as big that costs $4.
[04:06.550 --> 04:08.970]  And they say, which should you buy?
[04:08.970 --> 04:17.650]  And the kid's answer was, well, I don't know, Miss Pei, it depends, because if I'm not that hungry, I really just want a little popcorn.
[04:17.830 --> 04:20.150]  And it's cheaper than the big thing of popcorn, right?
[04:20.730 --> 04:26.710]  I spend one less dollar, and I might not even finish it, because I only really wanted a couple of pieces of popcorn with my movie.
[04:27.610 --> 04:42.790]  But the correct answer was the $4 giant honker of popcorn, because what they're really trying to get you to do is to divide and compare which one has a lower per unit value.
[04:43.470 --> 04:47.630]  If they had asked that, maybe the kids would have gotten it right.
[04:47.630 --> 04:56.890]  Instead, they were like, I think kids are too stupid to understand comparing per unit value, so let's make this test completely pointless for everyone.
[04:57.090 --> 04:59.010]  So I honestly think my kids are right.
[04:59.150 --> 05:01.770]  It absolutely does depend on the size of your appetite.
[05:02.910 --> 05:03.270]  Okay.
[05:03.990 --> 05:11.710]  It's also, they're really long, and they're really boring, and tests have no funny words in it or funny pictures.
[05:11.870 --> 05:13.590]  It really just goes on forever.
[05:13.590 --> 05:20.110]  And no one has a good time either taking them or grading them or trying to get any sensical information out of them.
[05:20.390 --> 05:24.270]  And speaking of information, they mean absolutely nothing.
[05:24.710 --> 05:27.990]  There's not a lot of information that I found you can get from tests.
[05:28.090 --> 05:33.670]  You find out which kids are good test takers, which doesn't really tell me which kids are going to be successful.
[05:34.650 --> 05:44.530]  It tells me which kids can have the attention span to sit through really, really long periods of time and still maintain interest.
[05:45.410 --> 05:49.910]  Usually, good test takers wind up being really boring people, right?
[05:50.150 --> 05:56.330]  It's really how I ended up being on Wall Street thinking that my soul was draining away, because here I was.
[05:56.410 --> 05:57.510]  I was a really good test taker.
[05:57.610 --> 06:00.790]  I was hanging out with other good test takers, and it really bored me.
[06:01.410 --> 06:06.330]  Not to say that every good test taker ends up being a waste of an individual or something.
[06:06.330 --> 06:12.730]  It's a sense, because hopefully I'm not a waste of an individual, because I was good at taking tests.
[06:12.950 --> 06:18.350]  But it gets to a point where you wake up and you go, wow, I don't want to spend the rest of my life taking tests.
[06:18.590 --> 06:24.250]  And 12 years of school has taught me how to be successful at taking tests, right?
[06:24.690 --> 06:26.210]  This is what ends up to students.
[06:26.210 --> 06:27.750]  This is what ends up to teachers.
[06:27.790 --> 06:35.030]  And when teachers get like this, at least in New York City, where I was a public school teacher for a while, they end up in what's called the rubber room.
[06:35.230 --> 06:47.270]  And this is a lovely little space where teachers go, where if you flip out at a child or molest a child or something, and you're a tenured teacher, you can't actually be fired from the system, but you're not allowed to be around children anymore.
[06:47.490 --> 06:55.150]  So you get put into a prison with other teachers, and you had to do things like raise your hand, ask to go to the bathroom, or, you know, leave your cell.
[06:55.150 --> 07:06.190]  And from eight to four, you have to sit there every single day, getting paid a full tenured teacher salary, doing nothing but twiddling your thumbs.
[07:06.490 --> 07:08.210]  You're not allowed to leave.
[07:08.210 --> 07:11.070]  You're not allowed to really communicate.
[07:12.270 --> 07:14.730]  You're occasionally allowed to pee, right?
[07:15.350 --> 07:19.530]  So this says a little bit of a problem, right?
[07:19.670 --> 07:22.130]  So here's what politicians tell us, right?
[07:22.130 --> 07:24.610]  They tell to our face, I value education.
[07:24.610 --> 07:25.890]  I value education.
[07:25.890 --> 07:28.670]  This is all the stuff that I want to do to change education.
[07:29.130 --> 07:36.850]  So recently there was a... well, maybe not really that recently, but there was a bill, no child left behind in the Bush era.
[07:37.030 --> 07:38.850]  And that sounded really nice.
[07:39.050 --> 07:42.850]  It actually said, we want to make sure that every child is successful.
[07:43.070 --> 07:50.630]  The result of that, as far as teachers are concerned, is now we pass every single child who doesn't deserve to pass.
[07:50.630 --> 07:58.710]  So that if a school is struggling and not succeeding, maybe the teachers are pushed to help the children cheat a little on the test.
[07:58.870 --> 08:00.130]  Give them a few extra hints.
[08:00.370 --> 08:08.290]  Maybe after it's done, erase the wrong answers and put in some correct answers, if they actually know what the correct answers are.
[08:10.310 --> 08:17.350]  And actually there was a study done by... who was the author of Freakonomics?
[08:17.570 --> 08:18.290]  Steve Levitt.
[08:18.450 --> 08:18.930]  Yeah.
[08:19.370 --> 08:31.630]  He did a little study on how certain grade school teachers were helping their students cheat on standardized exams by taking them and erasing some answers and filling in correct answers.
[08:31.630 --> 08:38.250]  The only problem is they weren't exactly sure what the correct answers were themselves, and sometimes just changed correct answers even to wrong answers.
[08:39.990 --> 08:40.550]  Yeah.
[08:40.790 --> 08:52.790]  Another problem is with the teachers themselves, if you do not pay teachers a livable salary, which a lot of states do not, then you're not going to get qualified teachers.
[08:53.430 --> 08:54.970]  Shocking how that works out, huh?
[08:54.970 --> 09:01.590]  All the smart people realize, hey, I can make more money doing something else, and they don't become teachers.
[09:01.850 --> 09:07.130]  So we end up with people who don't know anything as teachers, and then we complain, why does a teacher suck?
[09:08.770 --> 09:10.670]  Sorry, I do a terrible job.
[09:11.190 --> 09:16.830]  So politicians tend to promise a lot of things and then not give the funding for it.
[09:16.910 --> 09:19.150]  So we're ending up asking, where's the money?
[09:19.350 --> 09:22.050]  And the politicians assume that it grows on state trees.
[09:22.630 --> 09:23.190]  Okay.
[09:24.370 --> 09:30.010]  So a little bit of hope for what education hacking might look like, right?
[09:30.210 --> 09:34.350]  So this, again, going back to the math pirate, who I now work for at the University of Chicago.
[09:34.550 --> 09:39.970]  He's Paul Sally, and he runs a number of inquiry-based learning curriculums.
[09:40.150 --> 09:52.530]  And inquiry-based learning is actually where the teacher does as little as possible, and the students do as most of the work.
[09:52.630 --> 10:01.850]  So the whole point of this is he runs a number of programs where the teacher-student ratio is extremely low, maybe one to five, one to seven.
[10:01.850 --> 10:22.490]  So a very well-educated teacher or counselor, very often it's he handpicks his best math students to be counselors in groups with anywhere from 11 to 18-year-old students learning some rigorous mathematics.
[10:22.490 --> 10:27.930]  And there has never been a need to dumb down the cases.
[10:28.350 --> 10:43.050]  No one has ever had to say, well, you know, I'd like to explain integral calculus to you, but you're a little stupid, so we're going to put it into a nice little picture and try and use little kid words to try and explain it to you.
[10:43.170 --> 10:47.990]  No, the kids embrace the fact that this is a challenge, and they're expected to take on that challenge.
[10:47.990 --> 10:53.430]  And no one is there to help them, you know, spoon-feed the information into their heads.
[10:53.850 --> 11:00.650]  They're asked to produce proofs on their own, at their own pace, on their own time, at their own level.
[11:01.010 --> 11:20.110]  And in this case, it takes a long time for them to get, but they eventually learn to pick up the chalk, go to the board themselves when they have an idea, discuss it with their peers, and really discover and really retain mathematics, theoretical high-level mathematics that are almost never taught at a high school level.
[11:21.170 --> 11:24.810]  So here are a couple of the programs he runs and some links for them.
[11:25.590 --> 11:28.990]  Sesame program, I worked with a group of middle school teachers.
[11:29.190 --> 11:36.310]  And this is, I mean, a lot of people I found were really shocked working with middle school teachers to find, well, you don't know how to add integers.
[11:36.370 --> 11:38.550]  You don't know how to multiply fractions.
[11:38.810 --> 11:40.690]  You don't really know what a fraction is.
[11:42.010 --> 11:55.550]  But the unfortunate fact of the matter is, our standards for testing to see if you are a qualified teacher are so low that it doesn't take a lot to pass and become qualified as a teacher.
[11:55.690 --> 11:59.110]  In Chicago, you get a license actually for kindergarten through eighth grade.
[11:59.510 --> 12:07.770]  So there are eighth grade teachers who would like to teach algebra to their eighth graders and really only have the math ability of a fourth grader.
[12:07.770 --> 12:09.770]  So that makes their job really difficult.
[12:10.070 --> 12:25.570]  So Sesame is around to help increase the math content knowledge of these middle school teachers so that they're actually capable of teaching knowledge at a higher level than these kids are learning it at.
[12:25.730 --> 12:27.610]  Because really you can't be...
[12:27.610 --> 12:28.490]  The purpose...
[12:28.490 --> 12:34.790]  The idea is you can't teach what you don't know ten times more.
[12:34.790 --> 12:39.850]  So you have to be ten times more qualified in order to teach something, right?
[12:40.430 --> 12:40.570]  Okay.
[12:40.790 --> 12:57.170]  The other one I want to talk about, Young Scholars Program, is a program for very, very talented, mathematically advanced middle school and high school students that show up at the University of Chicago on Saturdays, every other Saturday, to learn things like knot theory and number theory.
[12:57.910 --> 12:59.290]  And they come and they do it.
[12:59.410 --> 13:00.190]  And they work hard.
[13:00.250 --> 13:00.970]  And they get homework.
[13:01.210 --> 13:04.450]  And they do that too on top of the homework at school because they have fun with it.
[13:04.730 --> 13:07.530]  And the Collegiate Scholars Program, I'm working on that this summer.
[13:07.730 --> 13:17.850]  That is a college readiness program to get inner city students who aren't getting prepared by their so-called college prep academies ready for college.
[13:17.850 --> 13:18.530]  Okay.
[13:19.870 --> 13:21.150]  So check that out.
[13:21.450 --> 13:23.270]  Another thing I want to talk about, Map for America.
[13:23.550 --> 13:33.730]  This is one of those many programs that tries to bridge the gap between why is it that there are so many teachers who don't really know what they're talking about.
[13:33.910 --> 13:40.730]  But Map America also backs it up with money, which is why they get really, really smart people into this program.
[13:41.370 --> 13:57.670]  Not only do they fund your master's degree in education, but they also give a stipend, something like $10,000 to $20,000 per year on top of your salary if you decide to become a public school teacher in their program.
[13:57.790 --> 13:59.270]  You have to work in this for five years.
[14:00.210 --> 14:07.010]  And they make it so that you can actually live a very, very comfortable existence in New York City while being a teacher.
[14:07.250 --> 14:09.610]  So they attract a lot of talent into schools.
[14:11.710 --> 14:14.510]  So a little bit else about classes.
[14:14.670 --> 14:16.450]  So where does hackerspaces come in?
[14:16.550 --> 14:20.590]  So I want to talk about specifically the classes that have disappeared, okay?
[14:20.850 --> 14:25.830]  So like shop classes, this old picture of guys working at tools.
[14:26.130 --> 14:28.270]  Remember when we had tools in high schools?
[14:28.970 --> 14:30.550]  They don't exist anymore.
[14:30.790 --> 14:32.370]  We're not allowed to touch tools.
[14:32.490 --> 14:38.830]  They're taking away Bunsen burners from classroom because, God forbid, some kid goes, ooh, I wonder what hot feels like.
[14:41.230 --> 14:42.810]  So no one wants to get in trouble.
[14:42.970 --> 14:45.330]  So we're taking anything that has any potential danger.
[14:45.570 --> 14:50.830]  Soon we will be outlawing pens and pencils from classrooms because they are too sharp.
[14:51.290 --> 14:53.010]  Because kids aren't allowed sharp scissors anymore.
[14:53.330 --> 14:56.090]  So, God, why are we allowing them to use things like pencils?
[14:56.090 --> 14:58.010]  Going back to crayons.
[14:59.030 --> 14:59.250]  All right.
[14:59.610 --> 15:01.770]  Also, what happened to things like home ec?
[15:01.970 --> 15:05.070]  Probably because of the how does tot feel like question.
[15:05.830 --> 15:06.510]  All right.
[15:06.770 --> 15:11.310]  So now we're left thinking, what do I do with these?
[15:11.950 --> 15:12.550]  Right?
[15:14.010 --> 15:15.510]  Gosh, I don't know.
[15:16.270 --> 15:18.750]  So this is what happens here.
[15:19.030 --> 15:20.690]  So shop can make a comeback.
[15:21.050 --> 15:25.510]  This is NYC resistor when they were trying to build for their new space.
[15:26.310 --> 15:28.950]  Also, home ec can make a comeback.
[15:29.290 --> 15:31.790]  All sorts of chemistry and burning things.
[15:32.370 --> 15:32.530]  Yay.
[15:33.410 --> 15:33.730]  Okay.
[15:34.050 --> 15:35.510]  So spaces, spaces, spaces.
[15:35.870 --> 15:37.310]  What are the future of spaces?
[15:37.650 --> 15:38.130]  All right.
[15:38.250 --> 15:40.010]  I want to talk about a couple of spaces.
[15:40.290 --> 15:43.350]  Hackerspaces like NYC resistor.
[15:44.150 --> 15:47.490]  They're already available offering classes to the public.
[15:47.690 --> 15:47.790]  Right?
[15:49.010 --> 15:50.550]  You're allowed to touch things.
[15:50.810 --> 15:52.070]  You're allowed to use tools.
[15:52.430 --> 15:57.570]  You're allowed to make things hot and trusted not to burn yourselves with them.
[15:58.770 --> 16:03.790]  And miraculously, you know, no one has really cut their own head off yet.
[16:04.510 --> 16:05.090]  Wow.
[16:05.210 --> 16:07.930]  I guess we weren't as stupid as schools made us out to be.
[16:08.110 --> 16:11.170]  So it's already here.
[16:11.290 --> 16:12.090]  It's already happening.
[16:12.090 --> 16:20.150]  We already have spaces available to teach adults, to teach children to work with their hands again.
[16:20.410 --> 16:20.490]  Right?
[16:20.690 --> 16:21.750]  Also, maker spaces.
[16:21.950 --> 16:30.340]  Maker spaces are very similar to hackerspaces in that it is an open community that offers public classes.
[16:30.890 --> 16:37.090]  So this is a picture out of Bucketworks in Milwaukee that runs all sorts of programs.
[16:37.090 --> 16:54.570]  I've seen spaces available for high schoolers to go in when their school says, no, we're not allowing you to put on this Shakespearean play because it has inferences to nudity and penises.
[16:55.170 --> 16:59.310]  Yes, Shakespeare was a dirty man, but he also wrote brilliant poetry.
[16:59.310 --> 17:03.870]  So Bucketworks allowed them to put on a Shakespearean play in their space.
[17:04.310 --> 17:09.530]  There are also art galleries open by children, by neighborhood students.
[17:09.810 --> 17:12.090]  There's a gardening project for the community.
[17:12.770 --> 17:18.810]  So this is all potential things that hackerspaces and maker spaces could become for education.
[17:19.490 --> 17:21.270]  Also, other public spaces.
[17:21.270 --> 17:24.290]  This is a picture of the New York City Public Library.
[17:24.290 --> 17:28.130]  The potential of this space is huge.
[17:28.530 --> 17:33.310]  There are already all sorts of educational gatherings here.
[17:33.550 --> 17:36.230]  There are not just meetings and conferences.
[17:36.870 --> 17:40.750]  There are classes being held for all levels.
[17:41.050 --> 17:43.810]  There are book readings and book signings.
[17:44.030 --> 17:53.050]  But libraries could really be a potential space for the future development of hands-on education.
[17:53.050 --> 17:55.190]  I mean, if we take away...
[17:55.190 --> 18:01.230]  Look at those practically empty rows that are just sitting there waiting for people to sit and read books.
[18:01.430 --> 18:03.250]  How many of you guys still read books?
[18:03.450 --> 18:03.930]  Right?
[18:04.510 --> 18:04.990]  Awesome.
[18:05.570 --> 18:08.190]  How many of you read books on your computer?
[18:09.030 --> 18:11.110]  How many of you guys read books on a Kindle?
[18:11.470 --> 18:12.170]  Or what is it?
[18:13.030 --> 18:13.810]  I don't even...
[18:13.810 --> 18:14.810]  A Nook or something?
[18:15.190 --> 18:15.590]  Yeah.
[18:15.590 --> 18:24.450]  So, books are evolving in a virtual form.
[18:24.670 --> 18:25.750]  So, Bits to Atoms.
[18:26.150 --> 18:28.590]  And it's constantly changing into that.
[18:30.210 --> 18:38.750]  It might even come to the point where our children, our children's children, don't really need a physical book anymore.
[18:38.990 --> 18:42.230]  They can upload 3,000 books onto something that has virtual pages.
[18:42.230 --> 18:44.470]  And then what's it become of libraries?
[18:44.790 --> 18:49.070]  Well, why don't we have libraries as borrow spaces for tools?
[18:49.850 --> 18:56.150]  Look at this huge hallway that could potentially be filled with what was once the shop class.
[18:56.330 --> 19:03.710]  That is now a liability issue for high schools and middle schools and elementary schools.
[19:03.710 --> 19:11.470]  We could set up classrooms once more where people can work with their hands and learn what these things are for.
[19:11.730 --> 19:12.030]  Right?
[19:12.210 --> 19:21.090]  And not to circle things on paper and make sure to fill inside the lines so that they don't get marked wrong by a Scantron paper.
[19:21.450 --> 19:21.870]  Right?
[19:23.130 --> 19:23.730]  So...
[19:24.910 --> 19:25.510]  Okay.
[19:26.490 --> 19:27.650]  That's pretty much it.
[19:27.770 --> 19:29.470]  So, I'm done super early.
[19:29.470 --> 19:29.530]  Okay.
[19:29.950 --> 19:31.190]  So, questions.
[19:32.090 --> 19:32.470]  Yeah.
[19:40.720 --> 19:43.060]  Are you familiar with the concept of unschooling?
[19:43.780 --> 19:44.160]  Unschooling.
[19:44.240 --> 19:44.800]  What do you mean by that?
[19:45.440 --> 19:50.660]  They self-direct their own activities.
[19:50.820 --> 19:52.920]  If they want to learn comic books, they learn comic books.
[19:53.040 --> 19:54.240]  And through that, they learn how to read.
[19:54.460 --> 20:04.860]  They want to learn, you know, if they want to learn proofs and their personal proofs and it's all facilitated through parental interaction or sometimes through, you know, specialized tutors.
[20:04.860 --> 20:11.460]  Do you have any sort of opinions on sort of how far one can go in allowing students to self-direct their actions?
[20:12.140 --> 20:14.820]  That would be considered, obviously, the most extreme example.
[20:15.100 --> 20:17.520]  And some people said they have success with that.
[20:17.600 --> 20:18.320]  Some people don't.
[20:18.440 --> 20:20.880]  But where's the right sort of realm?
[20:21.060 --> 20:21.700]  Where's the range?
[20:21.860 --> 20:24.970]  Do you think that anything?
[20:25.290 --> 20:25.770]  Okay.
[20:25.880 --> 20:29.010]  I honestly don't think there is a right realm for anything.
[20:29.190 --> 20:30.410]  Education is education.
[20:30.600 --> 20:37.170]  And whether self-motivated or, you know, given to you, if you want to learn, you learn.
[20:37.170 --> 20:45.380]  And part of education is not teaching you to absorb information, but teaching you how to learn, right?
[20:45.690 --> 20:50.950]  So unschooling is, I mean, I've heard a lot of versions.
[20:51.150 --> 20:53.060]  I mean, it is another version of inquiry-based learning.
[20:54.630 --> 20:56.450]  It depends on the parents, right?
[20:56.560 --> 21:02.340]  If the parents are very knowledgeable and have a lot to offer, that kind of limits a child's development.
[21:02.580 --> 21:07.910]  I'm all for public schools because it teaches you skills that you cannot learn from parents.
[21:08.470 --> 21:11.770]  One essential skill is how to interact with kids your own age.
[21:12.290 --> 21:15.750]  And you're never going to learn that if you're going to be homeschooled the whole time.
[21:16.150 --> 21:24.410]  So it's always beneficial to go into, even if you are homeschooled, I think actually Tiffany Radd is, is she here?
[21:24.600 --> 21:27.800]  She's starting a new space that's very focused on education.
[21:27.800 --> 21:34.080]  And she's bringing in a lot of these unschooled kids to work with each other in a hackerspace.
[21:34.410 --> 21:36.810]  So I think that's a great development potential.
[21:37.600 --> 21:37.790]  Yes.
[21:38.190 --> 21:38.670]  Okay.
[21:38.770 --> 21:39.880]  I was raised this way.
[21:40.040 --> 21:40.300]  Yes.
[21:40.960 --> 21:43.270]  And what you're talking about is called a homeschool group.
[21:48.570 --> 21:54.950]  And this is, it's definitely the way I've been coming, I've for many years had a vision of my ideal school.
[21:55.130 --> 21:57.710]  It's a, it's a big building full of equipment and smart people.
[21:58.110 --> 21:59.850]  And you go in there and you talk to people.
[22:00.310 --> 22:01.070]  And you learn stuff.
[22:01.270 --> 22:03.930]  And it's, it's, it's a lot of what you're talking about.
[22:03.930 --> 22:06.850]  And I don't, you said it's the most extreme case.
[22:06.970 --> 22:07.730]  I was going, huh.
[22:08.410 --> 22:09.370]  It just seems natural to me.
[22:09.450 --> 22:10.810]  But that's because I've been raised this way.
[22:11.190 --> 22:14.490]  You know, I, and you were saying socialization is an issue.
[22:14.670 --> 22:15.550]  It is an issue.
[22:15.750 --> 22:17.150]  But that's what friends are for.
[22:17.390 --> 22:20.350]  You know, you meet people, you have friends, you have a homeschool group.
[22:20.650 --> 22:23.690]  You meet twice a week with a bunch of other kids who are in a similar system.
[22:24.310 --> 22:28.090]  I would, in our homeschool group, I was only one of the, almost one of the only kids who was unschooled.
[22:28.910 --> 22:31.050]  Most of the other kids had a curriculum of some sort.
[22:32.630 --> 22:35.690]  But that, you know, that doesn't really set you apart from the other kids that much.
[22:35.810 --> 22:37.550]  It doesn't set you apart from the kids' school either.
[22:38.250 --> 22:40.410]  Just, you know, you're all trying to learn in various situations.
[22:40.590 --> 22:41.070]  We're not.
[22:41.310 --> 22:43.310]  But those kids I just didn't ever understood.
[22:43.910 --> 22:49.930]  But, yeah, I mean, I think this brings back to what you're, exactly what you're saying, which is the most important thing is learning to learn.
[22:50.610 --> 22:57.150]  And from my experience, seeing and interacting with the public school system, it downright trains people not learn.
[22:57.670 --> 23:00.450]  Because it teaches people to do rock repetition.
[23:01.350 --> 23:02.930]  And only remember it for the test.
[23:03.110 --> 23:04.130]  We're saying teaching for the test.
[23:04.430 --> 23:04.790]  Yeah.
[23:04.790 --> 23:11.710]  Because if you learn to love to learn, you know, okay, I learned to read very late.
[23:11.870 --> 23:14.050]  And as you were saying, you know, you learned to read because of comic books.
[23:14.130 --> 23:16.950]  I learned to read because I wanted to be able to read my C++ manual.
[23:24.230 --> 23:29.270]  And, you know, this is a path and it's resulted in a very beautiful life for me.
[23:29.470 --> 23:31.130]  So you've got to choose your own path.
[23:31.490 --> 23:31.890]  Yeah.
[23:32.070 --> 23:32.530]  Do you have a question?
[23:33.390 --> 23:33.790]  Or...
[23:33.790 --> 23:34.130]  Okay.
[23:34.310 --> 23:35.030]  Just wanted to comment.
[23:35.230 --> 23:35.410]  All right.
[23:35.690 --> 23:36.310]  Thank you.
[23:36.550 --> 23:36.730]  All right.
[23:36.870 --> 23:37.170]  Yes.
[23:37.350 --> 23:38.390]  Actually, I have two questions.
[23:38.570 --> 23:38.650]  Yeah.
[23:38.810 --> 23:45.050]  One, living in Maine, there's actually a lot of using tools and fixing cars and stuff like that.
[23:45.310 --> 23:46.210]  And why you guys don't work.
[23:46.830 --> 23:51.170]  But those are for the kids who are smart kids.
[23:51.170 --> 23:53.110]  That's actually not just in Maine.
[23:53.350 --> 23:54.190]  You're absolutely...
[23:54.190 --> 23:55.350]  Like, that's everywhere.
[23:55.570 --> 23:56.330]  I'll come back to that.
[23:56.410 --> 23:56.530]  Yeah.
[23:56.530 --> 23:57.350]  What was your second question?
[23:59.070 --> 23:59.910]  So, yeah.
[23:59.910 --> 24:00.550]  What was your question?
[24:00.550 --> 24:04.010]  Also, have you read a book called Teaching as a Subversive Activity?
[24:04.390 --> 24:05.310]  No, I haven't.
[24:06.850 --> 24:08.490]  Teaching as a Subversive Activity?
[24:08.610 --> 24:09.030]  Who wrote it?
[24:09.530 --> 24:10.410]  The first one.
[24:10.590 --> 24:11.490]  The previous question.
[24:11.770 --> 24:11.970]  Oh.
[24:12.030 --> 24:15.330]  Could you repeat the article only?
[24:15.570 --> 24:16.010]  Okay.
[24:16.310 --> 24:16.690]  Let her talk.
[24:16.970 --> 24:17.310]  Okay.
[24:17.770 --> 24:21.150]  Schools sometimes seem to put people in socio-economic activities.
[24:21.550 --> 24:26.310]  I mean, like, classes because kids who aren't so smart take the shop at the classes.
[24:29.090 --> 24:29.610]  Right?
[24:30.010 --> 24:30.070]  Yeah.
[24:30.210 --> 24:30.430]  Mm-hmm.
[24:30.810 --> 24:31.870]  And that's not what you're doing.
[24:32.330 --> 24:32.810]  Mm-hmm.
[24:33.030 --> 24:34.190]  And then the second question.
[24:34.510 --> 24:43.750]  So, the first question was about why is it that the kids who take shop classes or go to vocational schools, actually, that's what those are existing for.
[24:43.850 --> 24:46.750]  Are the dumb kids and the smart kids become professors, right?
[24:47.930 --> 24:48.450]  Yeah.
[24:49.090 --> 24:49.370]  Yeah.
[24:50.290 --> 24:51.110]  I don't know.
[24:51.110 --> 24:53.510]  It's just teach kids to ask questions.
[24:54.590 --> 24:55.510]  Who wrote this?
[24:55.610 --> 24:56.670]  It sounds really familiar to me.
[25:00.530 --> 25:01.390]  I don't know.
[25:01.490 --> 25:03.930]  All he did was tell the kids to ask questions.
[25:04.270 --> 25:04.590]  Mm-hmm.
[25:04.790 --> 25:08.310]  And then, they throw this off as stupid.
[25:08.510 --> 25:09.010]  Like, how are you?
[25:09.210 --> 25:09.590]  What's the webinar?
[25:10.090 --> 25:14.430]  After a while, after all they were doing is asking questions, they came up with some really interesting things.
[25:14.570 --> 25:16.370]  They were learning the scientific method and stuff like that.
[25:16.510 --> 25:16.670]  Yeah.
[25:16.850 --> 25:18.250]  And after that, he said, okay, let's answer them.
[25:18.550 --> 25:18.890]  Okay.
[25:19.650 --> 25:21.910]  I'm actually going to answer the second question first.
[25:22.130 --> 25:28.070]  So, there are actually a lot of case examples of teachers who have trouble teaching their kids to ask questions.
[25:28.430 --> 25:32.610]  I have a really hard time every single year that I have new students coming to me.
[25:32.690 --> 25:37.050]  They're literally afraid to ask questions because of how many roadblocks they had hit before.
[25:37.290 --> 25:42.290]  They'd ask a simple question of, well, why does this work?
[25:42.530 --> 25:52.190]  And then, they're told to shut up because sometimes it's because the teacher's trying to cover up for the fact that he or she doesn't know the answer.
[25:53.810 --> 25:57.910]  I try to make it so that if I don't know the answer, we can find out.
[25:58.110 --> 25:59.670]  And there are always tools to find out.
[25:59.810 --> 26:05.110]  A better answer than shut up is actually, I'm not sure, why don't you go look it up in a book?
[26:05.450 --> 26:06.610]  Those things exist.
[26:07.050 --> 26:16.150]  And that actually teaches a kid to ask a question and then figure out how to answer his or her own question instead of shutting that student down.
[26:16.310 --> 26:17.790]  So, that is a huge problem that happens.
[26:17.970 --> 26:23.410]  And another thing with this whole smart-stupid dichotomy, why is it that there are only two choices?
[26:23.450 --> 26:25.510]  You can be smart or you can be stupid.
[26:26.850 --> 26:28.110]  You can do a lot of things.
[26:28.290 --> 26:29.130]  Actually, you know what?
[26:29.130 --> 26:32.790]  My family friends all think I'm pretty stupid.
[26:33.130 --> 26:43.270]  I left a really high-paying job to go do something that is more work and pays one-fourth of what I earned at 22 years old.
[26:43.390 --> 26:44.470]  So, I'm pretty dumb.
[26:45.970 --> 26:57.410]  I'm also pretty dumb for coming to things like hacker conferences because there's subversive activity coming in through these doors and I'm going to get myself into a lot of trouble.
[26:57.410 --> 27:00.250]  So, I should keep my mouth shut and run away and hide.
[27:00.370 --> 27:04.130]  So, there are a lot of stupid things that I do that really I don't think are very stupid.
[27:04.650 --> 27:11.110]  I feel like every student needs to learn how to work with his or her hands because it's a basic skill.
[27:11.310 --> 27:14.390]  So, you have all of these supposedly smart kids.
[27:14.490 --> 27:25.090]  When the zombie apocalypse comes, they will be sitting there theorizing on how the world will end and the stupid kids will be running away because they know how.
[27:32.110 --> 27:33.810]  So, I think you had your hand up in the back.
[27:35.210 --> 27:42.550]  One more thing that I want to add on the distinction between what is a homeschooling group and what is an on-school.
[27:42.710 --> 27:46.930]  This new model that's been developed over the last 10, 20 years or so.
[27:47.190 --> 27:49.110]  It's been pretty getting traction in the last 10 years.
[27:49.530 --> 27:50.870]  The model of an on-school.
[27:51.390 --> 28:00.990]  An on-school is a building with classroom, with trained teachers, where the students come together every single day to meet and learn.
[28:01.230 --> 28:04.830]  The one thing that the on-school does not have is compulsion.
[28:05.450 --> 28:11.210]  The model of an on-school starts by saying the big problem of modern schooling is a compulsion.
[28:11.990 --> 28:15.550]  The big high school, the big mainstream high school functions as a prison.
[28:16.470 --> 28:16.570]  Right?
[28:16.570 --> 28:24.170]  When I went to teach in high school, the one part that I could not deal with is a student come to me and say, I need to go pee.
[28:24.330 --> 28:29.170]  I need to go to the bathroom to change gym underwear because I'm bleeding.
[28:29.470 --> 28:31.430]  Little girl, like, she's just dealing with her periods.
[28:31.650 --> 28:36.450]  I am not allowed to let her out because she is my responsibility and I am a prison keeper.
[28:36.450 --> 28:38.370]  This is madness.
[28:39.290 --> 28:41.890]  And, of course, it has psychological impact on the students.
[28:42.810 --> 28:45.950]  Very interesting reading about that is John Taylor Ghetto.
[28:46.570 --> 28:48.250]  All of his writing is fantastic.
[28:48.790 --> 29:00.150]  One short reading that you can write, they can read is seven lessons my teacher told me about the psychological damage affected on students because of the compulsion.
[29:01.250 --> 29:07.910]  So, on-school, what they do to try to go around that is the people, the adults, that are there are not teachers.
[29:08.650 --> 29:10.090]  They are teachers.
[29:10.430 --> 29:17.590]  Their responsibility is not to deliver content, but it is a way in the child, the desire to learn.
[29:17.830 --> 29:19.030]  There are ways to do that.
[29:19.210 --> 29:20.210]  It's hard, but there are ways.
[29:20.510 --> 29:22.010]  But then you can do it when you're trying.
[29:22.550 --> 29:27.210]  So, you wake up the desire to learn from the student and then you put it in contact with the resource.
[29:28.050 --> 29:28.490]  That's
[29:38.890 --> 29:38.990]  right.
[29:39.330 --> 29:39.950]  All right.
[29:40.490 --> 29:40.870]  Thank you.
[29:41.710 --> 29:43.900]  Question for you.
[29:44.060 --> 29:44.600]  Thank you.
[29:59.320 --> 30:09.960]  I don't think there's a... I honestly don't think there's an issue of school being compulsory, because you can say you have to go to school and then kids actually really like direction, especially at a very young age.
[30:09.960 --> 30:14.840]  You have to tell them, you know, you have to wipe your bottom after you're done going to the bathroom, you know.
[30:15.380 --> 30:17.440]  You need to eat with tools and not your hands.
[30:17.740 --> 30:19.280]  You need to say please and thank you.
[30:19.460 --> 30:22.340]  So, we're told a lot of things and that's how we are learned to socialize.
[30:22.460 --> 30:24.080]  So, this is one of the things we get into a routine.
[30:24.220 --> 30:31.880]  I think school in some senses, for a lot of organizationally challenged students especially, it helps get them into the routine of going to work every single day.
[30:31.960 --> 30:32.640]  This is my job.
[30:32.780 --> 30:33.380]  This is what I do.
[30:34.120 --> 30:47.000]  I don't think it's a bad thing, but I think there's a problem when we're teaching kids that the thing that you go to every day to spend most of your time with should be something that you dislike.
[30:47.300 --> 30:52.880]  I think that's actually why so many adults, when they grow up, they find jobs that they really don't like.
[30:53.020 --> 30:57.080]  Because we're already trained by our schools to do that.
[30:57.080 --> 31:03.120]  We find something that we have to do and we do it even though it sucks.
[31:03.460 --> 31:14.880]  Whereas I feel if we made schools fun and the kids want to come working in the summer programs that I have at the University of Chicago with Paul Sally, I haven't seen a student who said, I really don't want to be here.
[31:14.900 --> 31:16.740]  Because if they didn't, go home.
[31:16.960 --> 31:17.740]  It's a Saturday.
[31:17.940 --> 31:18.860]  You don't have to be here.
[31:19.300 --> 31:23.480]  And yet they feel they have to come because they're learning and they're enjoying it.
[31:23.480 --> 31:34.100]  So I'm hoping that these smart kids are going to learn to move on and do things that actually fascinate them and interest them, make them want to wake up every morning and go to work.
[31:34.380 --> 31:34.780]  Right?
[31:35.320 --> 31:35.720]  Okay.
[31:36.720 --> 31:37.460]  Oh, my God.
[31:37.560 --> 31:38.100]  So many hands.
[31:38.300 --> 31:39.460]  I'm going to close my eyes.
[31:41.320 --> 31:41.720]  Throw...
[31:41.720 --> 31:42.120]  Oh, okay.
[31:42.180 --> 31:42.640]  I guess it's you.
[31:44.300 --> 31:49.320]  My question is that, I know and I clearly respect the needs to learn with a hand-owned approach.
[31:49.560 --> 32:00.960]  How do you feel with respect to webinar-type training for kids, let's say, for an AP type of course that isn't available in their district so they'll log on and they'll talk virtually?
[32:01.340 --> 32:03.900]  How do you feel about that sort of training and teaching?
[32:05.920 --> 32:06.360]  What?
[32:07.060 --> 32:08.360]  Can you repeat the question again?
[32:08.960 --> 32:09.400]  Or...
[32:09.400 --> 32:09.760]  Oh, okay.
[32:09.820 --> 32:10.840]  You want me to repeat the question.
[32:10.840 --> 32:11.120]  Okay.
[32:11.660 --> 32:12.000]  All right.
[32:13.320 --> 32:25.460]  So, you want to say if there isn't a course, a local course available for a student and they would like to take a virtual course, can they do that?
[32:25.640 --> 32:35.320]  I think if a student is motivated to learn and that kind of information is available, by all means there should be as much opportunity to learn as possible.
[32:37.100 --> 32:40.320]  Hands-on learning is just so much more interactive.
[32:40.720 --> 32:47.740]  Like, if you look at students, there have been surveys done where teachers teach...
[32:47.740 --> 32:50.820]  I think this was primarily for math teachers, because I'm a math teacher.
[32:51.740 --> 32:57.500]  85% of teachers teach based on visual learning.
[32:57.500 --> 33:02.900]  So, they'll write things down and they'll put in formulaic things for students to memorize.
[33:03.320 --> 33:08.680]  And it turns out 90% of students are kinesthetic learners, which means they learn by emotion.
[33:09.020 --> 33:11.120]  They learn by using their hands.
[33:11.280 --> 33:13.000]  They learn by interaction with others.
[33:13.000 --> 33:18.300]  So, all these things are lacking when you're talking about a virtual course.
[33:18.660 --> 33:21.840]  However, there are people who really take on to that.
[33:21.960 --> 33:23.120]  The visual learners, right?
[33:23.180 --> 33:28.000]  The people who really follow the rigor of formulaic processes.
[33:29.020 --> 33:31.240]  So, I think it depends on the person.
[33:33.160 --> 33:38.460]  Always, I think, an interactive class trumps an online course.
[33:38.460 --> 33:41.460]  So, okay.
[33:42.860 --> 33:43.560]  Over here.
[33:44.220 --> 33:51.440]  What's there a mean of patient health education programs that aren't there for enrichment, but to act as a carrot and stick to keep them around?
[33:52.400 --> 33:53.480]  What kind of programs?
[33:53.720 --> 33:54.880]  Giving them health and education.
[33:55.180 --> 33:55.600]  Okay.
[33:55.920 --> 34:03.920]  So, you're talking about, what do I think about enrichment programs that are only there as sort of like a...
[34:03.920 --> 34:04.800]  What kind of...?
[34:04.800 --> 34:05.480]  Carrot and stick.
[34:05.700 --> 34:06.300]  Carrot and stick.
[34:06.960 --> 34:15.840]  When I was in school, I was a gifted college program, which is where you go to school, and then there are classes outside of that, that let us do more interesting things.
[34:16.080 --> 34:17.380]  Like learning how to code, or...
[34:17.380 --> 34:17.560]  Yeah.
[34:17.620 --> 34:18.420]  Or stuff like that.
[34:23.600 --> 34:26.900]  It wasn't there to help me engage with the rest of the curriculum.
[34:27.120 --> 34:32.320]  But it was there because every time they thought I was getting out of line, they wouldn't threaten to pull me out in these programs.
[34:35.300 --> 34:40.020]  Yeah, that's actually, that kind of stuff is used all of the time.
[34:40.020 --> 34:47.560]  Actually, I'd say the majority of the extracurricular activities are there for that.
[34:47.720 --> 34:50.390]  It's not just the gifted and talented programs.
[34:50.740 --> 34:54.040]  It's sports, arts, music, theater.
[34:54.320 --> 35:02.500]  So, it's like, well, you know, if you don't behave in Mr. Smith's class, then we are going to take away this aspect of your education.
[35:03.600 --> 35:06.680]  Yeah, it's really, it's really unfortunate.
[35:08.180 --> 35:15.200]  Instead, what schools should be realizing is these curriculums aren't actually teaching the students anything.
[35:15.460 --> 35:17.500]  Look at what the students actually want to go to.
[35:17.780 --> 35:23.940]  If the students actually want to go to basketball practice every single day, that just means that basketball is more compelling.
[35:24.320 --> 35:26.740]  Why don't you show them literature behind that?
[35:26.860 --> 35:29.000]  Why don't you teach them the mathematics of the game?
[35:29.000 --> 35:30.780]  Why don't you teach them probability theory?
[35:31.020 --> 35:35.440]  Why is it that you are forcing them to take tests and fill in bubbles?
[35:36.580 --> 35:49.040]  So, instead of changing the curriculum to fit what the students really want to learn, and that's, I think, one of the benefits of unschooling, that you can choose what it is, what path that you would like to take to learn all of these basic tools.
[35:50.980 --> 35:52.320]  But you're absolutely right.
[35:52.320 --> 35:54.940]  It's unfortunate that it's used as a punishment.
[35:55.220 --> 36:00.600]  Like, here, we're going to take away the one thing that you're learning from, so that you can sit still in a class.
[36:00.900 --> 36:03.420]  So, that's really great for the kids with ADHD, by the way.
[36:04.180 --> 36:04.580]  Yeah.
[36:06.080 --> 36:06.500]  All right.
[36:06.720 --> 36:07.120]  From the front.
[36:27.980 --> 36:29.680]  You're absolutely right in that.
[36:29.880 --> 36:35.240]  So, the question was about elementary school learning, because that's when a lot of these basics get grounded in.
[36:35.940 --> 36:43.460]  Actually, I think elementary school teaching is one of the core reasons for why there's such a huge fear of mathematics in America.
[36:45.680 --> 36:56.740]  Because the standard for becoming a teacher is relatively low, you actually have a lot of teachers who are very passionate about their jobs, who really care, who care about the students, who don't know math.
[36:57.180 --> 37:11.440]  So, when asked to teach basic mathematics, like the number line, teaching kids how to add fractions, how to divide numbers, the teachers themselves don't have a good grounding grounding on what that actually means.
[37:12.100 --> 37:14.660]  So, what that translates into...
[37:14.660 --> 37:19.000]  I've actually heard elementary school teachers say, I'm afraid of math.
[37:19.000 --> 37:19.920]  I don't like math.
[37:20.180 --> 37:22.360]  And the kids take that away with them.
[37:22.500 --> 37:27.860]  Oh, if the teacher doesn't like math, then I don't like math either, because I want to do what the teacher says, you know?
[37:28.200 --> 37:32.940]  That's... most children react in that way, and that translates later in life.
[37:34.140 --> 37:37.980]  There was a really fascinating study done in the 1930s.
[37:37.980 --> 37:40.440]  There was this great curriculum that was put in place.
[37:40.740 --> 37:42.960]  And I forget... I forget the guy's name.
[37:43.180 --> 37:43.940]  I'm going to have to look it up.
[37:45.380 --> 37:47.800]  Ask me... like email me and I'll look this up for you.
[37:47.900 --> 37:52.540]  But there was a district of schools in Rochester, in upstate New York.
[37:52.680 --> 37:59.020]  And he got away with this because at the time there was an immigrant, a very immigrant focused community, who didn't speak a lot of English.
[37:59.020 --> 38:01.400]  So when he sent out the notice, like, I'm changing the curriculum.
[38:01.560 --> 38:02.820]  This is going to be an experimental case.
[38:03.140 --> 38:04.500]  None of the parents could read the notice.
[38:05.440 --> 38:07.860]  So they signed it and then were like, oh, okay.
[38:08.040 --> 38:11.440]  And he got this curriculum passed.
[38:11.580 --> 38:14.380]  And it was... it was really interesting.
[38:14.540 --> 38:21.380]  He took all these immigrant kids and for the first three years, taught them basic logic skills, thinking skills, critical reasoning, reading.
[38:21.380 --> 38:25.480]  And then around the third and fourth grade started pushing in mathematics.
[38:25.920 --> 38:34.720]  So then there was like the teachers who are very good at mathematics, taught... came in and taught them number theory and group theory.
[38:34.940 --> 38:41.940]  And then they had a mathematical foundation based on the logic and critical reasoning skills that they learned from analytical reading.
[38:42.820 --> 38:46.260]  And they ended up being highly, highly successful.
[38:46.520 --> 38:55.220]  So after 12 years through this system, they all remembered, you know, this was... they all remember their experience in a very, very positive way.
[38:55.580 --> 38:58.580]  So what happened to the system and why didn't it spread?
[38:59.580 --> 39:09.540]  It was successful to the point that the textbook publishers got upset because he wasn't following their curriculum.
[39:09.880 --> 39:18.860]  So what they did was the textbook publishers sent someone to do a study in the schools to see how well this curriculum was running.
[39:18.860 --> 39:23.500]  And they interviewed teachers and students and did a great cross-sectional study.
[39:23.680 --> 39:30.840]  And they came to the conclusion that this curriculum was unsuccessful because it didn't follow the textbook curriculum.
[39:31.420 --> 39:35.300]  Therefore, we need to change curriculum to follow the textbook curriculum.
[39:36.800 --> 39:38.260]  And that got tossed out.
[39:38.460 --> 39:41.560]  And he was asked to resign from his post.
[39:41.800 --> 39:43.960]  And he said, f*ck you all, I'm going to work at a university.
[39:44.180 --> 39:44.780]  And that's what he did.
[39:45.620 --> 39:46.760]  That's the end of that story.
[39:47.060 --> 39:48.100]  So, yes.
[39:48.400 --> 39:49.660]  Did you want... did you have a follow-up for that?
[39:50.420 --> 39:50.880]  Yeah.
[39:58.800 --> 39:59.720]  So, yeah.
[40:00.080 --> 40:02.300]  That's actually... I can talk to politicians.
[40:02.320 --> 40:03.680]  I can talk to school boards.
[40:03.740 --> 40:06.140]  It really doesn't get a lot pushed.
[40:06.460 --> 40:08.200]  What really happens is...
[40:08.200 --> 40:08.560]  Yeah.
[40:08.780 --> 40:11.240]  Here's what happens when a teacher tries to talk to their principal.
[40:11.240 --> 40:14.060]  I know, because I've done this every single time I've worked at a school.
[40:14.240 --> 40:18.740]  When you try to tell your principal this isn't working, the kids aren't learning, they go, can you please leave?
[40:18.880 --> 40:19.580]  Get out of here, please.
[40:21.060 --> 40:25.540]  When you talk to school boards about this doesn't work, they go, oh, my God, can you leave us alone?
[40:25.740 --> 40:26.580]  Run away, please.
[40:27.700 --> 40:30.920]  So, when you talk to politicians, they go, I agree.
[40:31.300 --> 40:32.580]  I'll do something about it.
[40:32.660 --> 40:33.260]  And they run away.
[40:34.420 --> 40:39.740]  So, really, a lot of these programs, a lot of these freestanding programs are in place.
[40:39.740 --> 40:48.880]  Like, the reason I'm reaching out to hackerspaces and makerspaces is because I am preaching to the choir, because you guys are genuinely concerned about real education here.
[40:49.000 --> 40:50.520]  You know, this is what we're all here about, right?
[40:50.660 --> 40:55.920]  We're here because we are geeks and we like to learn and play with things and change the world.
[40:56.100 --> 41:04.940]  So, I'd like us to be the next big movement for education, because we know how it's done right.
[41:04.940 --> 41:10.500]  So, if I'm going to talk to the school board, they're not going to listen because we don't have evidence.
[41:10.800 --> 41:17.300]  So, once hackerspaces start filling with more students than schools, then we have a case.
[41:17.560 --> 41:20.360]  Then we want to make schools more like hackerspaces again.
[41:21.060 --> 41:22.140]  Okay, all the way back.
[41:22.460 --> 41:23.240]  I teach
[41:26.700 --> 41:32.820]  in a large district, which I won't name, but it might be about two hours south of here, and it might be named if you can see a brother-in-law.
[41:35.960 --> 41:45.060]  And if you want to go into, if you want to get the students into hackerspaces and teach them all this cool stuff, don't underestimate what the teachers want out of this.
[41:45.920 --> 41:56.640]  When I was teaching, which was not very long ago, we got, brace yourselves, a Princeton center loan, $50 a year added to our paychecks, one time, for Classrooms Plus.
[41:57.560 --> 42:00.580]  It was taxed, also, while I'll add, so that's not done by number 3rd.
[42:01.120 --> 42:05.320]  I taught for an entire year without getting the official school issue box of shock.
[42:05.760 --> 42:06.760]  I am not kidding.
[42:07.180 --> 42:17.560]  So, as much as I wanted to bring all this cool stuff in and make these experiential hands-on, and much stuff we could get from friends who have had a lot of cool stuff in their bodies.
[42:18.260 --> 42:21.880]  I would think of this because I don't try to, you know, feed myself and so on.
[42:22.580 --> 42:30.160]  So, we can reach out to teachers, assume, people assume that they want this stuff, they want the cool hands-on experience for the kids, and can't remind them.
[42:31.300 --> 42:34.100]  Yeah, so, here.
[42:35.340 --> 42:36.500]  That's the problem with that.
[42:37.400 --> 42:41.080]  Politicians promise money, and there is never money to be given around.
[42:42.400 --> 42:44.300]  It's not just your classroom.
[42:44.500 --> 42:45.720]  It's every classroom.
[42:45.900 --> 42:51.060]  And part of the issue isn't just, I don't have the funds to bring all this cool stuff in the classroom.
[42:51.260 --> 42:53.900]  Why do you think suddenly shop is dangerous?
[42:54.120 --> 42:56.220]  Why is it suddenly the Bunsen burners are dangerous?
[42:56.380 --> 42:57.460]  Why are sharp scissors dangerous?
[42:57.920 --> 43:03.000]  Well, if you look at a private school, the teacher-to-student ratio is something like 1 to 15.
[43:03.340 --> 43:07.580]  If you look at a public school, the teacher-to-student ratio is about 1 to 40.
[43:07.580 --> 43:19.880]  One teacher in a classroom of 40 students, even if the students love you, will not get nearly as much accomplished as one teacher in a classroom of 15.
[43:20.780 --> 43:27.820]  So, Chicago Department of Education just cut 2,000 teachers because they ran out of money.
[43:28.480 --> 43:33.640]  To make up for that, they increased the minimum class sizes from 32 to 37.
[43:34.640 --> 43:37.620]  Classroom sizes were already over 32.
[43:37.920 --> 43:39.400]  They were on average 37.
[43:39.680 --> 43:44.440]  So, moving the limit from 32 to 37 means moving the limit from 37 to 42.
[43:45.620 --> 43:49.980]  One teacher, 42 kids, 40 minutes in a lesson.
[43:50.460 --> 43:53.380]  Think about how much time each teacher has for each student.
[43:53.380 --> 43:55.360]  We want to do hands-on education.
[43:55.500 --> 43:56.480]  We can't.
[43:56.620 --> 43:59.840]  Because we have about as much time to go, touch your finger to this.
[44:00.000 --> 44:00.960]  I got to take it away now.
[44:02.120 --> 44:02.220]  Yeah.
[44:21.190 --> 44:22.670]  Yeah, the problems that...
[44:23.650 --> 44:27.810]  The classrooms that I'm working in currently are teaching theoretical mathematics.
[44:28.090 --> 44:29.750]  So, there is not like...
[44:29.750 --> 44:33.690]  This isn't like some kind of new technology-based sort of thing.
[44:34.430 --> 44:36.390]  There are programs that I've seen.
[44:36.590 --> 44:45.210]  I know MIT, Johns Hopkins, a number of universities do outreach programs where students do learn a lot of technology.
[44:45.430 --> 44:46.150]  They learn how to code.
[44:46.330 --> 44:47.270]  They learn how to build stuff.
[44:48.230 --> 44:52.930]  No, I mean more like using a new technology platform to teach very simple...
[44:55.270 --> 44:55.670]  engagement.
[45:06.660 --> 45:06.860]  Yeah.
[45:15.100 --> 45:17.580]  So, I'm still not sure what my opinion on this is.
[45:18.100 --> 45:20.650]  Some people say, because kids are so used to technology...
[45:22.210 --> 45:25.780]  I'm sorry, the question was, you know, kids are so attuned to their technology.
[45:25.940 --> 45:28.280]  What about using new technologies to teach basic skills?
[45:28.980 --> 45:29.820]  Kids are, I think...
[45:29.820 --> 45:30.520]  Some students...
[45:30.520 --> 45:38.420]  Some people will say, kids are so attuned to technology, the only way to really reach out to them is with new technology, even teaching the most basic stuff.
[45:38.680 --> 45:45.120]  And then there are people who say, kids are so attuned to technology, they don't realize there's a world in front of them.
[45:45.230 --> 45:48.020]  We need to take them away from the technology to teach them the basic skills.
[45:48.710 --> 45:50.230]  I think in some ways it's a combination.
[45:50.230 --> 45:53.100]  I think technology is a tool just like any other.
[45:53.320 --> 46:00.210]  So, we can't rely on a single tool because that's like telling only the kids who can take tests that you're smart.
[46:00.520 --> 46:00.800]  Right?
[46:00.920 --> 46:06.100]  What if we're now telling only the people who can work with technology that they're smart?
[46:07.420 --> 46:11.700]  Or what if we were to tell only the artists that they were the only smart ones in the world?
[46:11.940 --> 46:12.380]  Right?
[46:13.160 --> 46:14.520]  It's unfair either way.
[46:14.800 --> 46:18.460]  We want to teach kids how to use all sorts of tools.
[46:19.360 --> 46:20.760]  Technology is a part of that.
[46:21.340 --> 46:26.780]  But also teaching them how to work with each other without a computer.
[46:27.060 --> 46:29.100]  Taking all the technology away from the classroom.
[46:30.320 --> 46:32.340]  That's a basic communication skill too.
[46:33.210 --> 46:33.300]  Yeah?
[46:36.430 --> 46:41.330]  Great school, but there's a big problem in the community system too.
[46:41.990 --> 46:50.270]  And I think the education movement is kind of dealing with that and trying to, you know, have people focus more on online schools and education.
[46:50.270 --> 46:57.850]  Because, you know, apart from public education, you know, most people are stuck with, you know, thousands of dollars in debt.
[46:58.230 --> 47:01.170]  And of course that doesn't happen for, you know, great school or anything.
[47:01.310 --> 47:03.150]  Some of you know, what your opinion is?
[47:07.690 --> 47:09.130]  Oh, college, college.
[47:09.310 --> 47:09.970]  I went to college.
[47:09.970 --> 47:11.990]  I went to a really expensive college.
[47:13.310 --> 47:14.870]  Who gave me a nice piece of paper.
[47:15.070 --> 47:16.890]  Then now I get to brag about, like, look at me.
[47:17.050 --> 47:17.930]  I went to college.
[47:18.110 --> 47:18.290]  Yay.
[47:19.310 --> 47:21.010]  I didn't learn a lot from college.
[47:21.570 --> 47:23.050]  And I went to a really good college.
[47:24.510 --> 47:28.850]  And I think part of the reason is college follows the exact same model as schools do.
[47:28.850 --> 47:38.270]  So if you really, I feel like, if you want a real education and you don't care about the degree, sit in on classes that you're interested in.
[47:38.690 --> 47:40.110]  Go build something.
[47:40.290 --> 47:44.930]  Go ask someone who is really a professional in his or her field.
[47:45.090 --> 47:46.030]  And say, what do you do?
[47:46.070 --> 47:46.630]  How do you do it?
[47:46.670 --> 47:47.210]  How do I learn?
[47:47.210 --> 47:47.310]  How do I learn?
[47:47.930 --> 47:56.150]  And that's really, I've learned a lot more by just talking to people instead of, you know, taking classes for credit and getting a grade for it.
[47:56.790 --> 48:01.110]  I actually think in some ways it hinders it because colleges tell you, you have to do this.
[48:01.210 --> 48:01.810]  You have to do this.
[48:01.890 --> 48:04.810]  You have to maintain a certain curriculum.
[48:06.450 --> 48:10.270]  And really, learning isn't about that, especially if you're at the college level.
[48:10.410 --> 48:12.850]  College is about exploring new options after that.
[48:12.850 --> 48:23.410]  And I think, unfortunately, the entire system is built on just thinking and using a pen and paper and taking tests and taking information and spitting back out.
[48:24.910 --> 48:31.790]  I think college suffers from the exact same problems that grade school education suffers from.
[48:32.050 --> 48:34.790]  Yeah, so, from this side.
[48:54.200 --> 49:00.920]  Okay, so the question was, as parents, how do we make sure kids learn a breadth of information when they seem to only be interested in one thing, right?
[49:01.920 --> 49:03.980]  Okay, I think interest is something that's taught.
[49:04.720 --> 49:07.880]  We should teach our kids to be interested in many things.
[49:07.880 --> 49:10.320]  We should teach our kids to learn many things.
[49:10.320 --> 49:11.840]  Point things out.
[49:12.180 --> 49:12.840]  Make them curious.
[49:13.220 --> 49:18.160]  Because, especially, like, in the elementary school years, kids are very open to direction.
[49:19.540 --> 49:21.080]  It gets ingrained.
[49:21.380 --> 49:23.120]  You know, this was the one thing that you were good at.
[49:23.440 --> 49:24.980]  This is the one thing that you're smart at.
[49:25.040 --> 49:26.080]  You're dumb at everything else.
[49:26.460 --> 49:31.280]  We kind of train kids to veer away from things that are difficult for them.
[49:31.720 --> 49:38.300]  Actually, there was a great New York Times article that came out about kids who are receiving a lot of positive praise.
[49:38.300 --> 49:49.580]  Really successful kids at school are actually afraid to move forward and learn more because they have been praised for being correct every single step in their education.
[49:49.580 --> 49:53.760]  So, God forbid, they're not correct going forward.
[49:53.920 --> 49:55.980]  So then they're not going to be praised.
[49:56.180 --> 49:59.320]  What we should really be praising is, oh, my God, you got something wrong.
[49:59.600 --> 50:00.000]  Excellent.
[50:00.200 --> 50:01.060]  How do we fix it?
[50:01.620 --> 50:02.840]  Why don't we try harder?
[50:03.020 --> 50:04.680]  Why don't we move on to new frontiers?
[50:04.940 --> 50:05.260]  Right?
[50:05.460 --> 50:06.800]  So we should be praising mistakes.
[50:06.920 --> 50:08.720]  We should be praising what they don't know.
[50:08.720 --> 50:12.780]  And that way they learn what I don't know isn't something to be feared.
[50:12.900 --> 50:14.000]  It's something to be conquered.
[50:22.690 --> 50:24.350]  Who hasn't spoken?
[50:25.050 --> 50:26.670]  Did you speak already?
[50:26.930 --> 50:27.030]  Okay.
[50:27.030 --> 50:28.950]  Why don't
[50:32.490 --> 50:40.290]  we pay attention?
[50:43.270 --> 50:51.610]  I guess I'm gonna ask a question, how does the Oscars work with, you know, with either kids leading school
[51:03.470 --> 51:03.970]  Right.
[51:04.710 --> 51:06.150]  That's a really good question.
[51:06.270 --> 51:12.250]  The question was about what do I know about current programs available with hackerspaces working with public education.
[51:13.230 --> 51:16.830]  There are certain liability issues that have to be taken into consideration.
[51:17.230 --> 51:23.650]  Hackerspaces have huge liabilities if they allow a classroom in that they don't, they haven't, you know, even if you sign up.
[51:23.670 --> 51:24.210]  You sign waivers.
[51:24.690 --> 51:25.170]  Okay.
[51:26.250 --> 51:27.910]  Let me just answer this question.
[51:28.050 --> 51:28.270]  One minute.
[51:28.350 --> 51:28.510]  All right.
[51:28.650 --> 51:32.030]  So even if you sign waivers, you're not fully protecting yourself.
[51:32.270 --> 51:36.590]  So I've seen cases like this.
[51:36.650 --> 51:42.010]  Actually, the art teacher that worked in my last school, he came here.
[51:42.130 --> 51:52.070]  I got him to come here and talk to NYC Resistor to talk about maybe meeting in a neutral space that isn't a school, which has its liabilities, and isn't the space which has its liabilities.
[51:52.070 --> 51:55.370]  So maybe if they can find a neutral classroom space where the kids can learn.
[51:55.910 --> 51:58.330]  That's one common ground that they found there.
[51:59.170 --> 52:04.550]  Also, Bucketworks in Milwaukee, that's a maker space that actually welcomes kids in after hours.
[52:04.690 --> 52:12.830]  They have a high school that's across the street where all of these stupid kids who haven't succeeded are going to that school to learn how to go to prison later.
[52:13.270 --> 52:23.670]  But after school, they go across the street and go into Bucketworks, and they build robots, and they learn to code, and they learn to code, and they do things, and they're smart, you know?
[52:23.930 --> 52:28.590]  And they're taught that everything they were taught made them stupid before is actually wrong.
[52:29.650 --> 52:35.630]  Again, Tiffany Radd is starting a very, very education-focused hackerspace in DC.
[52:35.810 --> 52:37.290]  So you should talk to her and check that out.
[52:38.150 --> 52:39.990]  And that's what I know.
[52:40.250 --> 52:41.710]  So I'm sorry I'm out of time.
[52:41.990 --> 52:44.690]  If you need to contact me, call me.
[52:44.990 --> 52:45.150]  No.
[52:45.550 --> 52:45.990]  Email me.
[52:46.110 --> 52:46.510]  Tweet me.
[52:46.890 --> 52:47.910]  Where's my contact info?
[52:48.710 --> 52:50.170]  End, end, end, end, end, end.
[52:50.330 --> 52:50.470]  Ooh.
[52:50.890 --> 52:51.630]  Too much.
[52:52.030 --> 52:52.610]  All right.
[52:52.770 --> 52:53.230]  Thank you.
[53:01.320 --> 53:01.880]  Hi.
[53:02.100 --> 53:02.440]  Welcome.
[53:06.100 --> 53:07.580]  I have to go start a contest.
[53:07.860 --> 53:08.140]  Okay.
[53:08.440 --> 53:08.520]  Please.
[53:09.660 --> 53:10.620]  I'll see you downstairs.
[53:13.080 --> 53:13.640]  Yeah.