[00:05.280 --> 00:06.540]  Uh, hello, can you hear me?
[00:06.880 --> 00:07.320]  Yes, sir.
[00:09.360 --> 00:10.340]  Can you still hear me?
[00:11.580 --> 00:11.940]  Fairly.
[00:26.160 --> 00:27.440]  This is social engineering.
[00:35.840 --> 00:36.580]  All right, thank you.
[00:40.910 --> 00:43.270]  Okay, well, the mute button doesn't work, so, um...
[00:45.170 --> 00:47.550]  Okay, but we'll try.
[00:47.730 --> 00:51.270]  Try not to laugh too hard, because it makes social engineering a little bit more difficult.
[00:55.670 --> 01:00.610]  Um, who here does not know what social engineering is, and it's not something to be ashamed of?
[01:00.830 --> 01:02.010]  Oh, you know what it is.
[01:04.010 --> 01:06.370]  Sometimes you may not believe you know what it is.
[01:06.790 --> 01:09.690]  Okay, Cheshire Catalyst here will explain what social engineering is.
[01:09.850 --> 01:10.750]  If my mic is on.
[01:11.350 --> 01:12.270]  Is his mic on?
[01:12.270 --> 01:13.110]  Do I have audio?
[01:13.990 --> 01:14.690]  Oh, really?
[01:14.930 --> 01:15.430]  Hey, Emmanuel!
[01:17.770 --> 01:18.250]  Yo!
[01:18.750 --> 01:18.910]  Hey!
[01:19.170 --> 01:19.610]  Emmanuel!
[01:19.970 --> 01:20.190]  Yo!
[01:20.950 --> 01:21.610]  Do we have a sound man?
[01:22.150 --> 01:24.490]  Uh, hello, is this mic on how to switch?
[01:24.670 --> 01:26.310]  A slide, or am I on?
[01:26.630 --> 01:27.910]  Ah, here we go, okay.
[01:29.270 --> 01:36.290]  Uh, social engineering, well, engineering is when you take a wrench to a bolt, turn it, and something happens.
[01:37.650 --> 01:47.290]  Social engineering is when you take a telephone, get somebody as dumb as a bolt on the other end, and turn it.
[01:49.050 --> 01:52.370]  Um, look, I've watched masters.
[01:52.850 --> 01:55.450]  I should not be on this panel.
[01:55.670 --> 02:05.770]  I have complained to people that I should not be on this panel, because I don't do it half as well as people I've seen do true social engineering.
[02:05.770 --> 02:09.810]  John Draper, the infamous Captain Crunch.
[02:10.590 --> 02:10.930]  Yes.
[02:12.670 --> 02:15.010]  Let us raise a cheer to Captain Crunch.
[02:15.190 --> 02:15.590]  Thank you.
[02:17.330 --> 02:28.330]  Captain Crunch would pick up a phone and call a central office switch, and he'd get a bored, dumb switchman on the line, who's tired, bored.
[02:28.950 --> 02:38.490]  It's 10, 11 o'clock at night, and John understands because, yeah, I'm over at this other switch across town, and boy, I know how dull and boring it is.
[02:38.810 --> 02:41.450]  And we'll bat the brief with the fellow for a little bit.
[02:43.010 --> 02:50.310]  And, of course, throwing all the buzzwords across, you know, about the number 5 switching that we're on, and, you know, this, that, and...
[02:51.390 --> 02:55.590]  I told the fellow, it was comfortable that, yes, John really is who he says he is.
[02:56.270 --> 03:05.690]  And, oh, by the way, you know, I've entered this command into the main console the other day, and, you know, it just did, oh, well, you forgot to put it in this way, and the other way.
[03:05.690 --> 03:10.090]  And, you know, put an F semicolon over here instead, you know, probably, yeah.
[03:10.470 --> 03:12.470]  And that is social engineering.
[03:13.930 --> 03:22.690]  John will take it to extremes, and you listen to him throw body English into the phone.
[03:22.910 --> 03:30.070]  And, actually, it came in handy to me, because as a ham radio operator, I was in homestead after the hurricane, and supplies were not getting through.
[03:30.070 --> 03:37.150]  And I just, I would throw panic into my voice about, you know, how these supplies really needed to be done.
[03:37.290 --> 03:42.030]  And to the point where, as I said, Roger, Chrome 200 out.
[03:42.650 --> 03:48.350]  I looked at my buddies in the van we were working out of and said, they were looking at me as worried.
[03:48.870 --> 03:51.730]  And I said, well, do you think I threw enough body English into that?
[03:54.410 --> 04:05.250]  And that's really what social engineering is, is making them believe you are who is supposed to receive the information, whatever that information is.
[04:05.430 --> 04:12.990]  And one of the ways you can do it is by having information at your disposal that you share with them.
[04:12.990 --> 04:17.590]  Of course, this is my whole thing of, you know, sharing the knowledge, and so I, you know, do it pretty readily.
[04:18.670 --> 04:23.930]  Um, I used to hack around on Marisat, the Maritime Communication Satellite.
[04:24.810 --> 04:29.310]  And, uh, it used to be hooked up to a New York City telephone exchange, which is very dumb of them.
[04:29.390 --> 04:37.770]  But then again, the entire New York City TWX exchange, the TWX Teletype network, was hooked on a New York City telephone exchange.
[04:38.390 --> 04:41.190]  They never told anyone that this back door was there.
[04:41.190 --> 04:46.910]  In fact, uh, I finally realized this was not a back door to the TWX network.
[04:47.590 --> 04:49.730]  The back wall was on a hinge!
[04:52.190 --> 04:53.550]  It was that open.
[04:54.070 --> 04:55.610]  Uh, and certainly not locked.
[04:55.990 --> 05:00.670]  But, nobody ever played with Model 33 Teletypes and modems.
[05:00.830 --> 05:06.190]  And I would just take, uh, Model 33 or, uh, a Lyra-Siegler gun terminal, the ADM-3.
[05:07.150 --> 05:10.510]  Uh, dial 690 plus the last four digits of the TWX number.
[05:11.050 --> 05:12.470]  Listened for the modem tone.
[05:12.890 --> 05:14.290]  Put it in the acoustic coupler.
[05:14.470 --> 05:16.830]  At 110 watt, half duplex.
[05:17.050 --> 05:18.790]  And the damn thing thought I was a TWX machine.
[05:19.550 --> 05:20.990]  And I'd show up on a ship at sea.
[05:21.090 --> 05:21.370]  Hi!
[05:21.570 --> 05:23.390]  This is Cheshire, a computer hacker in New York City.
[05:23.610 --> 05:25.090]  Does anyone have time to sit and chat out there?
[05:28.650 --> 05:30.430]  I now reach a ship's radio operator.
[05:30.890 --> 05:32.370]  Hundreds of miles at sea.
[05:32.870 --> 05:34.890]  Absolutely nothing better to do than sit and chat.
[05:35.530 --> 05:36.970]  Especially on someone else's nickel.
[05:39.390 --> 05:41.730]  So, uh, I'd get these guys out there.
[05:41.830 --> 05:50.270]  They, you know, we'd chat and, uh, he'd say, gee, you know, RCA Globecom gave me these here, Unicode, so I could get back to my, uh, home office.
[05:50.470 --> 05:51.550]  I'm reading this off my screen.
[05:52.050 --> 05:54.790]  And, uh, I can't figure out how to use them.
[05:55.890 --> 05:57.810]  Mom please, which is the Telex abbreviation.
[05:57.930 --> 05:58.690]  Mom and please, you know.
[05:59.050 --> 06:05.130]  And I reach for my stack of publicly available literature to TWX teletype operators, the RCA thing, and turn it to...
[06:05.130 --> 06:05.430]  Ah.
[06:06.070 --> 06:12.350]  Take the carrier ID thumb wheel and turn it to 2 for RCA, and then follow the OnePlus instructions, and it'll get you right back to your own office gun.
[06:12.770 --> 06:25.970]  And so, you share information like this, and, um, I mean, here I was doing some salesman's job explaining how this stuff worked, but these poor guys on the ships, um, they'd never had access to computerized kind of stuff before.
[06:26.450 --> 06:28.110]  And I was a computer hacker, right?
[06:28.250 --> 06:29.690]  So I shared knowledge.
[06:29.890 --> 06:30.530]  It worked out.
[06:31.750 --> 06:33.210]  You guys got some details to talk?
[06:33.370 --> 06:34.430]  Not really, not like that.
[06:37.890 --> 06:38.250]  Um...
[06:38.250 --> 06:40.710]  I mean, we've all done some social engineering.
[06:40.870 --> 06:47.190]  Any time we meet up against some imbecile in the phone company that won't tell us something that we have the right to know, you have to kind of keep trying.
[06:47.570 --> 06:50.730]  Um, you get somebody that won't tell you something, you just call back and try again.
[06:51.370 --> 06:58.190]  Uh, you get somebody that gives you one little bit of information, you call back and you use that one little bit of information to get more information from the next person.
[06:58.190 --> 07:03.170]  It's amazingly like computer hacking, except the people at the other end aren't quite as intelligent as computers.
[07:05.570 --> 07:07.630]  Really, I could tell you NYNEX stories, but I won't.
[07:19.440 --> 07:29.940]  Well, okay, the most recent example, we got a new phone line installed, and we asked them, please don't send the bill to the address that the phone goes to, because mail delivery is not very reliable.
[07:29.940 --> 07:31.140]  Send it to this P.O.
[07:31.160 --> 07:33.040]  box in this town over here, please, okay?
[07:33.340 --> 07:33.760]  Thank you!
[07:34.140 --> 07:38.780]  Well, a month later, we got a bill that was sent to the wrong P.O.
[07:38.820 --> 07:39.080]  box.
[07:39.160 --> 07:40.760]  It was minus one of the P.O.
[07:40.760 --> 07:44.220]  box we sent them, but it was also the town that we were in originally.
[07:44.220 --> 07:45.760]  So they sent it to the wrong P.O.
[07:45.780 --> 07:46.920]  box in the wrong town.
[07:47.120 --> 07:49.780]  And somehow it got to us, the miracle of the post office.
[07:50.880 --> 07:54.080]  We told them not to ever do that again, but they did.
[07:54.240 --> 08:01.060]  They sent us a calling card that we didn't even ask for, and we got it in the mail to the right P.O.
[08:01.060 --> 08:02.960]  box because they had repackaged it.
[08:03.120 --> 08:04.320]  They had sent it to the wrong address.
[08:04.580 --> 08:05.480]  It had been opened.
[08:06.580 --> 08:10.920]  They got it back, and then they put it into a handwritten envelope, send it to our P.O.
[08:10.920 --> 08:11.180]  box.
[08:11.280 --> 08:20.020]  Now they see that a calling card has been sent out unsolicited, has been opened by the wrong person, yet they just sent it out again as if nothing had happened.
[08:20.500 --> 08:24.740]  We've been since March trying to get new phone lines installed at 2600.
[08:25.080 --> 08:28.660]  And really, I don't know, does NYNEX do something else that takes all their time?
[08:28.840 --> 08:33.280]  Because they don't have time for phones.
[08:33.400 --> 08:34.720]  They don't have time to fix things.
[08:35.200 --> 08:36.700]  Go outside and look at the payphones.
[08:36.860 --> 08:37.540]  They're in horrible shape.
[08:37.540 --> 08:38.420]  They don't get fixed.
[08:39.020 --> 08:40.280]  The same thing with residential.
[08:40.360 --> 08:48.200]  Anybody who runs a business, anybody that has ever tried to put up a site of slips and dial-ins, has to deal with NYNEX.
[08:48.340 --> 08:51.200]  I've heard stories from Panix, from Escape, from Mindvox.
[08:51.380 --> 08:53.120]  It's awful what they do to people.
[08:53.680 --> 08:55.940]  Every business I know complains about that.
[08:56.400 --> 08:58.640]  And it's turning into a speech, but I don't want to...
[08:59.140 --> 09:00.820]  I once worked for a large firm.
[09:01.300 --> 09:03.600]  When I lived in New York, I worked for a large firm.
[09:05.100 --> 09:09.700]  And every couple of months I had to call the Western Union rep to talk about the Quicks and Telex lines.
[09:09.900 --> 09:11.100]  And I always got a new rep.
[09:12.040 --> 09:14.340]  And I kind of suspected the reason.
[09:15.060 --> 09:17.640]  And the reason was, I would have to sit down with the guys.
[09:18.040 --> 09:19.240]  Explain things to them.
[09:19.420 --> 09:21.180]  And try to teach them what their job was about.
[09:21.760 --> 09:24.220]  What these networks did, and how they really worked.
[09:24.520 --> 09:26.080]  And go, sit down here, I'll show you this.
[09:26.960 --> 09:28.920]  And I felt like I was one of their trainers.
[09:31.280 --> 09:31.680]  Yeah.
[09:32.100 --> 09:33.840]  The phone company mentality is kind of weird.
[09:34.720 --> 09:36.780]  Has anybody here worked for the phone company?
[09:37.720 --> 09:39.480]  You can applaud so we don't see who you are.
[09:40.740 --> 09:43.600]  There are hackers, they don't last long usually in the phone company.
[09:43.600 --> 09:46.000]  Because they want you to be of a certain set mind.
[09:46.660 --> 09:49.220]  They don't want you to ask questions or do things in any way.
[09:49.440 --> 09:50.020]  Good example.
[09:50.500 --> 09:52.260]  A phone man came to my house once.
[09:52.580 --> 09:55.600]  And he was trying to find out what the line code was.
[09:55.840 --> 09:57.200]  You know, what the phone number was.
[09:57.300 --> 10:00.060]  And he was dialing 958, which is our ANAC number here in New York.
[10:00.320 --> 10:01.740]  And it wasn't working for some reason.
[10:01.800 --> 10:02.560]  It was all busied out.
[10:02.800 --> 10:03.760]  He just kept dialing 958.
[10:04.240 --> 10:05.000]  And it was a rotary phone.
[10:05.080 --> 10:05.960]  It was taking a long time.
[10:06.480 --> 10:09.020]  And I said to him, you know, you can dial 511, too.
[10:09.140 --> 10:09.820]  And there's another one.
[10:10.640 --> 10:12.020]  And he just looked at me for a second.
[10:12.100 --> 10:13.500]  And he just kept dialing 958.
[10:14.920 --> 10:17.100]  Like something just didn't quite mesh there.
[10:18.660 --> 10:20.480]  So what they do in the phone...
[10:20.480 --> 10:26.740]  There's a great book that came out maybe 20 years ago called, The Biggest Company on Earth, And it was about the Bell system.
[10:27.000 --> 10:28.360]  This was before the breakup.
[10:28.760 --> 10:30.540]  And it was all one big company.
[10:30.660 --> 10:35.520]  They owned your phone, they own the wire in your phone, The wire to the central office.
[10:35.720 --> 10:38.120]  They own the central offices and they own long-distance companies.
[10:38.640 --> 10:39.080]  It was scary.
[10:39.760 --> 10:42.600]  And it was one big enemy for all of us.
[10:42.980 --> 10:45.080]  And now there's lots of big enemies for all of us.
[10:46.040 --> 10:48.140]  But locally, we still only have one company.
[10:48.260 --> 10:49.200]  We still just have NYNEX.
[10:49.640 --> 10:54.380]  And one of the things I know lots of us want to do is get competition on the local scale.
[10:54.600 --> 10:59.360]  Make things more interesting for us for one thing, but also give us some maybe cheaper prices.
[11:00.520 --> 11:02.480]  So that's something that we're pushing for.
[11:03.200 --> 11:06.380]  As far as social engineering goes though, there are...
[11:06.380 --> 11:13.800]  I cannot think of a single company that is immune from this, that has not done some utterly stupid things.
[11:15.440 --> 11:19.240]  I once called up a company, Cable and Wireless, and I asked them what my code was.
[11:19.960 --> 11:23.420]  All I said was my phone number, and they told me what my code was.
[11:23.480 --> 11:24.480]  No verification, nothing.
[11:26.100 --> 11:28.760]  Another time... How many of you have MCI friends and family?
[11:30.080 --> 11:31.240]  That was a great one.
[11:31.280 --> 11:32.040]  You know what I'm talking about.
[11:32.740 --> 11:40.680]  They have an 800 number where all you have to do is call the 800 number, enter your phone number, and then, as security, enter your ZIP Code.
[11:44.520 --> 11:49.900]  And they'll tell you all ten people on your calling circle, which includes people with unlisted phone numbers.
[11:50.160 --> 11:52.460]  And not only that, but you find out how they related to you.
[11:52.640 --> 11:54.840]  Your brother at 914 or whatever.
[11:55.820 --> 11:57.700]  You know, you're... whatever.
[11:57.940 --> 12:00.400]  They just put all this information in.
[12:00.400 --> 12:04.740]  Well, they changed that because we broadcast that over the radio here, live.
[12:05.380 --> 12:05.780]  And...
[12:06.900 --> 12:12.040]  Now you have to get, I think, part of your account number, which is not very hard to get either.
[12:13.140 --> 12:16.220]  So, it's always possible to get information from these companies.
[12:16.340 --> 12:17.960]  And it doesn't stop with phone companies either.
[12:18.160 --> 12:20.180]  Any entity, any people...
[12:20.180 --> 12:23.460]  I mean, people have tried to social engineer us at 2600 sometimes, you know.
[12:23.860 --> 12:25.340]  So, yeah, I'm so-and-so.
[12:25.560 --> 12:29.120]  I need to know what address you have for me on my subscriptions.
[12:29.500 --> 12:31.880]  And, you know, what's your subscriber code?
[12:32.120 --> 12:33.740]  You know, it's printed on your label.
[12:34.500 --> 12:35.660]  I don't have such a thing.
[12:36.300 --> 12:37.220]  Sorry, I can't help you.
[12:37.300 --> 12:40.060]  You have to send us your coding or we can't help you.
[12:40.460 --> 12:41.460]  Phone companies aren't like that.
[12:41.580 --> 12:42.520]  They'll tell you everything.
[12:49.980 --> 13:04.340]  You just said that social engineers don't last within the phone company, but I actually met the guy in the Amsterdam area that does things in the social engineering way if the phone company can't figure them out anymore.
[13:04.760 --> 13:11.920]  At some point, we had four different contracts ordering about 90 phone lines in a very old building that had four different phone feeds coming in.
[13:13.860 --> 13:20.100]  And after three weeks of messing with it by 15 different people coming in and out, they lost track.
[13:20.320 --> 13:26.600]  And the only record that was available of anything that ever happened that matched the truth somehow was the record we had.
[13:26.700 --> 13:28.080]  We had to give them every time.
[13:28.280 --> 13:35.220]  So, I had all the numbers for all the boxes coming out of the central office, the pin numbers there, pin numbers in the street boxes, everything.
[13:35.520 --> 13:36.960]  We had to give it to them every time.
[13:37.060 --> 13:41.640]  And then at some point, they sent us the guy that they send if all else fails.
[13:41.640 --> 13:47.980]  And that's a social engineer that gets orders to hack his own company to get it working.
[13:51.900 --> 13:56.600]  If all else fails and a customer is complaining after a month, they send you a social engineer.
[13:56.740 --> 13:58.700]  And that guy does exactly what I would do.
[13:58.800 --> 14:05.400]  He calls up, says the order did go in, but it was in three weeks ago, and they just didn't notice even though it wasn't in.
[14:05.620 --> 14:10.820]  He just does all the tricks that we would do to get service quickly, but he does them to his own company.
[14:11.780 --> 14:12.220]  And...
[14:12.220 --> 14:13.320]  Bell Atlantic is doing that now, too.
[14:13.880 --> 14:15.660]  Bell Atlantic is doing that now, too.
[14:15.780 --> 14:16.040]  They have
[14:20.190 --> 14:26.070]  come in to the centralized operations and they front to the phone companies to large customers.
[14:26.550 --> 14:27.890]  They're all ex-Telco.
[14:28.130 --> 14:32.470]  They all have the terrorist syndrome and they will all do anything you tell them to do to get the sale.
[14:33.130 --> 14:36.790]  And so, the focus of these apparently understand is just a little bit of trouble.
[14:39.070 --> 14:41.490]  Social engineering, though, extends well beyond phone companies.
[14:41.710 --> 14:47.070]  One story I told last year at HEU was about trying to get a computer dial-up number.
[14:47.230 --> 14:53.050]  Now, we were at a university this was a few years ago and all we wanted to know was the dial-up for the mainframe.
[14:54.050 --> 14:55.530]  And they wouldn't tell us.
[14:55.570 --> 14:58.910]  That was privileged information for only the computer elitists.
[14:59.770 --> 15:01.430]  So, we called up the...
[15:02.450 --> 15:04.670]  the computer center and we asked them...
[15:04.670 --> 15:08.090]  We did some social engineering trick which did not work at all.
[15:08.350 --> 15:10.270]  And they said, look, we're not telling you this.
[15:10.370 --> 15:11.730]  This is not information for you to know.
[15:11.890 --> 15:12.750]  We will never tell you this.
[15:12.830 --> 15:13.290]  Blah, blah, blah.
[15:13.430 --> 15:14.270]  And they hung up.
[15:14.350 --> 15:19.950]  And we were very depressed, very upset that we couldn't get this information until one of us thought to...
[15:20.710 --> 15:25.030]  after a few minutes to call them again and say, yeah, this is...
[15:25.030 --> 15:25.930]  this is so-and-so.
[15:26.030 --> 15:27.310]  Actually, after about half an hour.
[15:27.670 --> 15:30.450]  This is so-and-so from some office in administration.
[15:30.450 --> 15:32.390]  We heard what just happened.
[15:32.590 --> 15:33.530]  Do you want to tell us about it?
[15:33.870 --> 15:41.110]  Well, sure enough, they had called in and said that somebody was trying to get this phone number and they gave the details as to what this person had been trying to do.
[15:41.250 --> 15:45.270]  Some stranger called us up and was trying to get privileged information out of us.
[15:46.250 --> 15:49.490]  And, well, sir, what privileged information were they trying to get?
[15:53.070 --> 15:54.450]  or a computer number?
[15:54.630 --> 15:55.810]  What number would that be, sir?
[15:56.950 --> 15:57.510]  Thank you.
[15:57.510 --> 15:57.530]  Thank you.
[16:06.650 --> 16:08.010]  Without further ado, that's in.
[16:09.150 --> 16:12.990]  Well, I'm sure you all know how helpful the phone company tends to be when they want to be.
[16:12.990 --> 16:17.050]  And the thing about phone companies is that they are a service-based organization.
[16:17.550 --> 16:19.130]  So they aim to please.
[16:19.610 --> 16:26.110]  So if you call them up and ask them for help and you're nice, depending on which department within it you get, they actually can be very helpful.
[16:26.290 --> 16:29.230]  Maybe not in doing things, but in giving you a lot of information.
[16:30.170 --> 16:33.930]  So, is everyone here familiar with what a CNA is?
[16:34.890 --> 16:35.690]  It's a...
[16:35.690 --> 16:36.850]  It's a...
[16:36.850 --> 16:37.110]  It's a...
[16:37.110 --> 16:37.150]  No?
[16:39.250 --> 16:40.130]  It's a...
[16:40.130 --> 16:44.170]  It's customer name and address and it's a reverse look up for phone numbers.
[16:44.430 --> 16:48.530]  You provide the phone number and they provide the name and address.
[16:48.950 --> 16:56.230]  And there's one in area code 313 that's automated and it's pretty much public knowledge that the number for that is 313-424...
[17:00.090 --> 17:00.530]  0900.
[17:01.010 --> 17:02.670]  That's pretty much public knowledge.
[17:06.390 --> 17:07.290]  Chop that down.
[17:07.490 --> 17:09.510]  However, the...
[17:11.890 --> 17:16.930]  According to phone company policy I don't believe they're supposed to give that number out or anything like that.
[17:17.090 --> 17:18.290]  Even though it is...
[17:18.290 --> 17:19.190]  I'm sure...
[17:19.190 --> 17:20.970]  It's been around for 10 years, hasn't it?
[17:21.090 --> 17:21.390]  Detroit.
[17:22.030 --> 17:23.710]  It's a little bit less than that.
[17:23.890 --> 17:27.250]  But it's been around for years and I'm sure it may.
[17:27.390 --> 17:33.690]  It's all kinds of threatening letters saying you published something that was not supposed to be given out but it's public knowledge anyway.
[17:34.130 --> 17:34.490]  So...
[17:36.710 --> 17:38.290]  So we'll see if we can get one of those.
[17:38.950 --> 17:40.190]  Okay, now tell us what you're going to do.
[17:40.390 --> 17:40.770]  We're trying to do it.
[17:40.770 --> 17:43.250]  Okay, I'm going to procure the number...
[17:43.250 --> 17:48.770]  This number that I've just given to everybody from a big long distance carrier.
[17:49.530 --> 17:51.550]  You'll probably tell when they answer the phone who they are.
[17:53.090 --> 17:53.810]  They are...
[17:53.810 --> 17:58.410]  Again, they're not supposed to give this information out but they really don't care to verify who's calling them.
[17:58.670 --> 18:01.870]  I mean, the training they get on this really sucks.
[18:02.630 --> 18:05.130]  And they give out the information freely.
[18:05.830 --> 18:06.870]  And I don't know why.
[18:07.050 --> 18:10.790]  And if you feel your information is secure with them, I don't know if I would feel that way.
[18:11.230 --> 18:17.250]  I don't know if anybody wants to say, but do a lot of people in here have legitimate Sprint phone cards, for example.
[18:17.410 --> 18:17.890]  Calling cards.
[18:19.870 --> 18:20.510]  Bring some up.
[18:22.430 --> 18:25.710]  I would think about that.
[18:27.030 --> 18:29.110]  Anyone have the voice Sprint cards?
[18:29.590 --> 18:30.230]  Aren't those great?
[18:30.310 --> 18:35.430]  You stand in an airport and not only do you say your code but your code is your social security number.
[18:36.930 --> 18:39.950]  I never communicated my voice on my network.
[18:39.950 --> 18:45.570]  And when I called Sprint they said, Oh, we didn't advertise that it was secure, just that it was convenient.
[18:53.970 --> 18:56.730]  Okay, we asked that you keep the noise down.
[18:57.330 --> 18:59.410]  If there is noise to say your TVs on.
[18:59.430 --> 19:02.650]  I'm not used to doing this in front of crowds so I would ask for three tries.
[19:04.590 --> 19:05.490]  Can everybody hear this?
[19:05.690 --> 19:06.010]  No.
[19:09.790 --> 19:10.870]  Can everybody hear this?
[19:11.070 --> 19:13.430]  Yeah, turn these off.
[19:13.430 --> 19:13.710]  are
[19:17.090 --> 19:35.210]  you having trouble?
[19:36.550 --> 19:37.890]  All right.
[19:45.600 --> 19:47.700]  Thank you for calling Sprint.
[19:50.160 --> 19:52.920]  One moment, please, while we connect you to a representative.
[19:56.540 --> 19:57.660]  Great customer service.
[19:57.840 --> 19:58.620]  My name is Kathy O.
[19:58.740 --> 20:00.560]  Smith, and I have your area code and your phone number, please.
[20:00.760 --> 20:01.280]  Hey, how's it going?
[20:01.420 --> 20:03.020]  This is Bob Dwyer over at Sprint Social Engineering.
[20:03.120 --> 20:03.500]  How's it going?
[20:03.780 --> 20:04.320]  I'm fine.
[20:04.400 --> 20:04.740]  How are you?
[20:04.980 --> 20:05.400]  Pretty good.
[20:05.540 --> 20:06.840]  Is CIS help for you guys over there?
[20:07.420 --> 20:08.140]  Yes, it is.
[20:08.700 --> 20:10.280]  Oh, this probably wouldn't be in CIS, though.
[20:11.000 --> 20:16.700]  Someone gave you the number for the CNA for area code 313 from here as a 518 number.
[20:16.700 --> 20:19.060]  I believe it's a number from 313.
[20:19.360 --> 20:21.180]  Did you show them the number for the CNA for 313 there?
[20:22.680 --> 20:24.080]  And your name's Bob Dwyer?
[20:24.420 --> 20:24.820]  Dwyer.
[20:25.460 --> 20:25.860]  Dwyer?
[20:26.040 --> 20:26.740]  Yeah, I'm over...
[20:26.740 --> 20:28.140]  You're not able to pull it up?
[20:28.340 --> 20:29.420]  Our computers are down.
[20:30.980 --> 20:32.140]  Your computers are down?
[20:32.260 --> 20:34.120]  Yeah, that's why I asked you if CIS was up over there.
[20:36.460 --> 20:37.200]  Hmm, okay.
[20:37.360 --> 20:38.240]  Just one moment, okay?
[20:38.720 --> 20:39.120]  Alright.
[20:42.020 --> 20:43.380]  Well, that one didn't work.
[20:44.380 --> 20:46.900]  That one didn't work, so I'd ask for one more try.
[20:57.540 --> 20:58.000]  Go ahead.
[20:58.660 --> 21:00.880]  If they put you on hold, usually it doesn't work.
[21:01.020 --> 21:04.000]  That means something's up, we've got to go ask the supervisor, it's not going to work.
[21:04.100 --> 21:04.800]  Don't even try it.
[21:06.400 --> 21:09.720]  I probably could talk to the supervisor, but I didn't even want to chance it.
[21:10.520 --> 21:12.300]  Do they have an ANI on those lines?
[21:13.260 --> 21:14.960]  They do not have ANI on those lines.
[21:15.120 --> 21:16.500]  AT&T does have ANI.
[21:17.100 --> 21:18.400]  What do you mean by CIS?
[21:19.160 --> 21:21.600]  CIS is the name of the computer system that Sprint uses.
[21:22.580 --> 21:25.720]  It's a common acronym for customer information system.
[21:25.760 --> 21:26.400]  Where do you have the CNA lists?
[21:27.420 --> 21:28.360]  They have them.
[21:28.760 --> 21:29.580]  They have them.
[21:29.700 --> 21:30.080]  They have them.
[21:30.420 --> 21:30.900]  Huh?
[21:31.260 --> 21:33.020]  Oh, yeah.
[21:35.920 --> 21:37.840]  No, I do not make any money whatsoever.
[21:44.660 --> 21:47.300]  Okay, and if there's not Sprint, there's MCI.
[21:47.300 --> 21:48.120]  They are.
[22:11.500 --> 22:13.380]  Thank you for calling Sprint.
[22:14.160 --> 22:17.020]  One moment, please, while we connect you to a representative.
[22:22.460 --> 22:24.540]  Hey, Debra, how's it going?
[22:24.680 --> 22:25.340]  It's fine.
[22:25.760 --> 22:27.620]  Hey, this is Bob Dwyer over at Sprint Social Engineering.
[22:27.740 --> 22:28.060]  How you doing?
[22:28.200 --> 22:28.700]  I'm fine.
[22:29.320 --> 22:30.020]  Pretty good.
[22:30.160 --> 22:30.980]  It's one of those days.
[22:31.260 --> 22:31.700]  Oh, okay.
[22:32.500 --> 22:35.820]  You wouldn't have to have the number for the CNA that handles 313 there, would you?
[22:35.940 --> 22:36.340]  That's Michigan.
[22:36.720 --> 22:37.820]  Oh, I think so.
[22:37.960 --> 22:38.700]  Just a moment.
[22:43.840 --> 22:45.080]  Are you guys busy over there today?
[22:45.800 --> 22:47.680]  We were real busy earlier.
[22:47.680 --> 22:49.220]  Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.
[22:49.340 --> 22:54.220]  Okay, it's 313-424-0900.
[22:54.600 --> 22:54.880]  Okay.
[22:55.420 --> 22:56.300]  Let me give you the pen.
[22:57.420 --> 22:58.580]  That's okay, I think we have that.
[22:58.720 --> 22:59.200]  Oh, you have that?
[22:59.280 --> 23:00.140]  Yeah, we don't need it.
[23:00.440 --> 23:00.880]  No problem.
[23:00.940 --> 23:02.180]  Is it one of those five-digit ones?
[23:03.520 --> 23:04.300]  Yes, sure is.
[23:04.700 --> 23:06.260]  Hey, is CIS up for you guys over there?
[23:06.460 --> 23:06.780]  Yes.
[23:07.080 --> 23:12.440]  Yeah, because we've been having a lot of problems with data loss from CIS to the switch and it's not processing the TCs too well.
[23:12.700 --> 23:13.060]  Uh-huh.
[23:13.220 --> 23:16.480]  What do you show us the last account that you handled or processed?
[23:17.420 --> 23:18.060]  Last account?
[23:18.280 --> 23:18.440]  Yeah.
[23:21.420 --> 23:21.740]  Uh...
[23:22.380 --> 23:22.700]  180.
[23:22.920 --> 23:23.320]  Oh, wait.
[23:23.520 --> 23:24.000]  Oh, no, wait.
[23:24.140 --> 23:24.820]  Oh, we have it right here.
[23:25.660 --> 23:27.980]  Yeah, in fact, CIS just came back online for us.
[23:28.180 --> 23:28.480]  They did it?
[23:28.720 --> 23:28.960]  Yeah.
[23:29.180 --> 23:29.760]  Oh, alright.
[23:29.920 --> 23:30.720]  Hey, thanks a lot for your help.
[23:30.780 --> 23:31.500]  You have a good one.
[23:31.660 --> 23:32.220]  Alright, bye-bye.
[23:51.530 --> 23:53.790]  Alright, well, that's the fun with CNAs.
[23:55.470 --> 23:59.590]  If you're, uh, is anybody familiar with how 800 routing works?
[23:59.690 --> 24:04.470]  A lot of times 800 numbers go to regular, like, POTS lines, which is just a regular area code and phone number.
[24:06.670 --> 24:12.090]  Uh, that the 800 number goes to.
[24:12.390 --> 24:14.230]  And there are several ways to find that out, too.
[24:15.710 --> 24:18.350]  Um, the number, for example, here's an 800 number.
[24:18.550 --> 24:21.330]  It's, uh, 800-282-2882.
[24:22.070 --> 24:24.550]  That's a very publicly known number.
[24:24.730 --> 24:28.630]  It's a number for a, uh, uh, syndicated radio show.
[24:28.970 --> 24:29.570]  Uh, there.
[24:29.650 --> 24:29.950]  There we go.
[24:30.030 --> 24:30.770]  That's what it is.
[24:30.890 --> 24:37.330]  But it also goes to a number here in 212, which I don't have off the top of my head, but we'd like to find out, so...
[24:47.780 --> 24:51.580]  To complete your call, please press or dial 1, now.
[24:52.580 --> 24:56.080]  You have reached the Advanced Feature Service Center.
[24:56.500 --> 25:00.060]  To report or check on a maintenance problem, press 1.
[25:00.520 --> 25:07.880]  To activate a command routing, call Allocator, select Routing, to change the mode of 800...
[25:24.140 --> 25:25.840]  AT&T, Sharon, Casey speaking.
[25:25.980 --> 25:26.600]  How may I help you?
[25:26.760 --> 25:27.540]  Sharon, how's it going?
[25:27.680 --> 25:28.700]  This is Bob over at NSAC.
[25:28.720 --> 25:29.160]  How you doing?
[25:29.540 --> 25:30.180]  Oh, not bad.
[25:30.240 --> 25:30.660]  And yourself?
[25:31.040 --> 25:31.620]  Oh, pretty good.
[25:31.760 --> 25:32.140]  Just chilling.
[25:33.000 --> 25:33.860]  Um, how's, how's...
[25:33.860 --> 25:34.940]  Are you guys, like, real busy over there?
[25:35.540 --> 25:35.820]  No.
[25:35.820 --> 25:37.580]  Is NSS up for you over there?
[25:37.940 --> 25:38.340]  Yes.
[25:39.140 --> 25:39.380]  Okay.
[25:39.480 --> 25:40.420]  Got an 800 number here.
[25:40.520 --> 25:42.720]  I just need to see if you show a POTS number associated with that.
[25:44.000 --> 25:44.400]  Okay.
[25:45.220 --> 25:45.980]  It's, uh, 800.
[25:46.360 --> 25:46.760]  Mm-hmm.
[25:47.120 --> 25:47.520]  282.
[25:48.800 --> 25:49.200]  2882.
[25:50.240 --> 25:50.640]  2882.
[25:51.820 --> 25:52.320]  Hang on.
[26:08.820 --> 26:09.220]  Okay.
[26:09.220 --> 26:11.700]  I'm showing it as a basic ready line, AT&T.
[26:12.500 --> 26:12.820]  Mm-hmm.
[26:14.680 --> 26:15.640]  Show the POTS number?
[26:15.820 --> 26:17.780]  W-A-B-C, A-B-C, is that it?
[26:18.360 --> 26:19.120]  Uh, what is it?
[26:19.180 --> 26:19.480]  What did you say?
[26:19.940 --> 26:20.620]  That's company.
[26:21.160 --> 26:23.240]  Uh, yeah, what, what, what, what name, what name did you say?
[26:24.460 --> 26:26.040]  W-A-B-C.
[26:26.240 --> 26:26.880]  That sounds right.
[26:28.860 --> 26:31.960]  2-1-2-2-6-8-80-80.
[26:32.160 --> 26:32.820]  80-80.
[26:32.920 --> 26:34.360]  Do you show, uh, what band is that?
[26:34.360 --> 26:35.940]  Is that band five, or is it...
[26:35.940 --> 26:36.780]  Band A?
[26:37.280 --> 26:37.700]  Excuse me?
[26:37.960 --> 26:38.860]  Some bands are ready, like?
[26:39.680 --> 26:40.840]  Nothing is there.
[26:41.300 --> 26:43.160]  Oh, there's, what do you mean nothing's there?
[26:43.600 --> 26:44.020]  I mean, it's...
[26:44.020 --> 26:44.660]  For the band.
[26:45.120 --> 26:45.360]  Oh, oh.
[26:45.360 --> 26:46.740]  It's not stating if it's...
[26:46.740 --> 26:47.680]  Oh, okay, that's right.
[26:47.700 --> 26:49.060]  Band A, band five, whatever.
[26:49.340 --> 26:51.080]  Okay, I just figured it's a regular ready line.
[26:51.840 --> 26:56.540]  Um, alright, um, do you show a contact name or anybody to contact in case of trouble?
[26:58.000 --> 26:59.440]  Oh, that would show up in NSS.
[26:59.760 --> 26:59.900]  No.
[27:00.400 --> 27:01.480]  Alright, thanks a lot for your help.
[27:01.680 --> 27:02.080]  You're welcome.
[27:02.260 --> 27:02.600]  Bye-bye.
[27:02.760 --> 27:02.860]  Bye.
[27:04.060 --> 27:04.700]  Bye-bye.
[27:05.440 --> 27:05.740]  Take
[27:14.120 --> 27:14.780]  care of myself.
[27:17.080 --> 27:17.340]  Let's go.
[27:17.340 --> 27:17.580]  Uh-oh.
[27:19.400 --> 27:20.000]  Hello?
[27:21.220 --> 27:21.520]  Oh.
[27:31.920 --> 27:32.520]  Okay.
[27:32.600 --> 27:32.780]  You were scared.
[27:32.940 --> 27:33.240]  You didn't I?
[27:33.500 --> 27:34.580]  You got the sh-t out of me.
[27:36.720 --> 27:37.320]  Okay.
[27:37.660 --> 27:43.880]  What basic technique here that you saw was being friendly being personable.
[27:43.880 --> 27:50.080]  You know, responding with a, how are you, is it busy for you out there?
[27:50.200 --> 27:52.320]  You know, because you care about the person.
[27:52.500 --> 27:53.780]  You know, we know what it's like.
[27:53.940 --> 27:54.660]  We're there too.
[27:54.860 --> 27:55.600]  We're on the job.
[27:55.680 --> 27:58.600]  It's a Sunday at 3 o'clock for Pete's sake, right?
[27:59.480 --> 28:01.180]  And you commiserate.
[28:01.520 --> 28:02.000]  Schmooze!
[28:02.000 --> 28:03.800]  Yes, schmooze, that's right.
[28:07.240 --> 28:09.880]  Anger does work too, yeah.
[28:10.460 --> 28:14.300]  But you have to have a justifiable reason for your anger.
[28:16.500 --> 28:18.960]  Oh, and a boss that's pissed helps.
[28:19.740 --> 28:25.480]  Or, to be the guy schmoozing and being personal because, oh, shit, man, my boss is right on my case.
[28:25.640 --> 28:29.960]  And, you know, I mean, I'm in here on a Sunday at 3 o'clock for Pete's sake because it's my job, man.
[28:29.960 --> 28:33.840]  And you get them to take pity on you, basically.
[28:34.460 --> 28:37.160]  And people want to help.
[28:37.400 --> 28:38.500]  They really do.
[28:38.800 --> 28:42.680]  And it's a day when the boss isn't around, so they can afford to be nice.
[28:43.960 --> 28:50.240]  So, and basically, people respond to how you are, and vice versa.
[28:50.720 --> 28:54.240]  If you're a nice guy, they'll come on as nice people.
[28:54.280 --> 28:57.540]  If you come on really angry, you gotta have, you know, it's, well, wait a minute.
[28:57.540 --> 29:00.680]  And you start with aggressiveness on both sides.
[29:00.940 --> 29:06.460]  So, it's almost better in some cases to start off, you know, and be pitiful.
[29:08.180 --> 29:11.740]  It all depends on how things are going down, what you're trying to get accomplished.
[29:12.400 --> 29:19.180]  A lot of times when you talk with a really thick accent, they'll tell you things that they're not supposed to tell you, just get rid of you.
[29:21.240 --> 29:27.360]  Because they're having such a bad time talking to you that they just want to stop, and they can't just hang up on you because they're listening to you lots of times.
[29:28.840 --> 29:29.760]  So, try that.
[29:29.900 --> 29:33.900]  Try being as annoying as possible without, uh, without actually saying nasty things.
[29:36.680 --> 29:37.040]  Questions?
[29:41.300 --> 29:43.020]  You want to see how MCI...
[29:43.980 --> 29:45.180]  Oh, I know what you're talking about.
[29:45.320 --> 29:45.440]  Okay.
[29:49.660 --> 29:50.400]  1-800?
[29:51.920 --> 29:53.100]  9-6-9.
[29:53.720 --> 29:54.940]  4-8-7-4.
[30:04.390 --> 30:06.890]  This number is no longer in service.
[30:09.210 --> 30:10.870]  I bet you'd be silly.
[30:12.470 --> 30:13.970]  That was the Wauatat right?
[30:14.490 --> 30:14.630]  Yeah.
[30:14.770 --> 30:15.990]  Was that the Wauatat line?
[30:16.110 --> 30:18.550]  Yeah, they, they, they would play The Sounds of Summer for you.
[30:18.650 --> 30:19.930]  Press 9 to hear a ballgame.
[30:21.990 --> 30:26.050]  I don't know why they did it, but it was the MCI, wow, it's hot, hotline.
[30:28.050 --> 30:28.450]  Marketing.
[30:29.090 --> 30:29.170]  Yeah.
[30:33.610 --> 30:38.570]  You know, the I Feel Okay for OK Cola, that's the Generation X Cola that they invented for us.
[30:40.090 --> 30:41.650]  But that doesn't really have to do with phone companies.
[30:42.530 --> 30:42.690]  Yes.
[30:43.450 --> 30:43.910]  Speak up.
[31:01.500 --> 31:04.500]  Do you know every time you call the operator in this hotel, you get charge of the dollar?
[31:09.180 --> 31:09.960]  I believe so.
[31:10.320 --> 31:11.440]  And 800 numbers, too.
[31:12.920 --> 31:15.100]  I guess we should have mentioned that at the beginning of this, shouldn't we?
[31:23.660 --> 31:23.980]  Question.
[31:29.520 --> 31:30.780]  Yes, that is a service rep.
[31:40.690 --> 31:43.630]  It depends upon which phone company, who the local carrier is.
[31:47.830 --> 31:50.210]  In any case, you saw how the first rep handled it.
[31:50.330 --> 31:55.650]  She did not want to have anything to do with me, because the story I had was pretty lame, something about the computers.
[31:55.650 --> 31:56.790]  So, I just...
[31:57.110 --> 31:59.010]  A lot of times, if you're direct, it really helps.
[31:59.150 --> 32:01.030]  You just call up, say what you need, and...
[32:01.030 --> 32:03.730]  Is it so likely to still be out for today?
[32:03.970 --> 32:04.750]  Is that a certain situation?
[32:05.090 --> 32:07.070]  In some places, it is that case, true.
[32:10.710 --> 32:11.670]  Well, two questions.
[32:11.870 --> 32:16.550]  One is, why did you wait for a gift of PIN code, in order to see if you didn't want to hear it?
[32:17.190 --> 32:17.730]  And number two...
[32:17.730 --> 32:18.770]  We don't want you to hear it.
[32:18.910 --> 32:20.050]  We don't want anybody to hear that.
[32:20.150 --> 32:22.910]  That could be legally troubling for everybody.
[32:24.330 --> 32:25.450]  Question number two.
[32:25.790 --> 32:28.970]  Have you ever published those codes in the 2600?
[32:29.170 --> 32:30.370]  Question number three.
[32:31.010 --> 32:34.870]  We've done some tracking on the neo-Nazi voicemail system lately.
[32:36.050 --> 32:36.450]  Wait.
[32:36.910 --> 32:41.390]  How would you track, if I gave you a dial-a-Nazi phone line, where it's located?
[32:41.690 --> 32:41.990]  Okay.
[32:42.170 --> 32:42.890]  We can answer that.
[32:43.590 --> 32:46.690]  Well, first of all, we've printed CNA numbers, yeah.
[32:46.930 --> 32:48.190]  But we wouldn't print codes.
[32:48.470 --> 32:48.990]  That's up to...
[32:48.990 --> 32:51.570]  I mean, you can see how easy it is to get the codes, if you know what you're doing.
[32:52.030 --> 32:54.650]  As far as tracking a number, it's not hard.
[32:55.130 --> 32:57.310]  It sounds like the number you're talking about is the voicemail system.
[32:57.310 --> 32:58.970]  We'd have to engineer the voicemail company.
[32:59.610 --> 33:01.650]  We'd call them up, see who's paying the bills.
[33:03.890 --> 33:09.570]  And once you find that out, once you have that information, all of a sudden, you become that person in their eyes.
[33:09.950 --> 33:11.610]  And that means you can do certain things.
[33:11.710 --> 33:12.550]  You can have the number changed.
[33:12.670 --> 33:13.490]  You can have the number disconnected.
[33:13.730 --> 33:14.670]  Anybody get more messages?
[33:15.970 --> 33:17.110]  Well, you can have...
[33:17.470 --> 33:21.390]  If you're having trouble with it, they will reset your password to the default, usually.
[33:21.830 --> 33:23.370]  And then you can simply take it from there.
[33:23.510 --> 33:31.730]  The good thing about solution engineering, the fun thing, is that when you call up and you're convincing, you become the authority figure to them.
[33:31.990 --> 33:34.510]  You can give them commands to do certain things.
[33:34.570 --> 33:38.850]  And the person whose accountant really is, all of a sudden, is at a disadvantage.
[33:39.110 --> 33:47.750]  For instance, I can call NYNEX, and I can assign a special code to my phone line, which will prevent anybody else from accessing my records.
[33:47.750 --> 33:52.750]  Well, if I do it before the real person does it, they can't access their records, and I can.
[33:53.150 --> 33:56.850]  So it's kind of screwed up, but if you know what you're doing, you definitely have the advantage.
[34:01.260 --> 34:02.220]  I'm not conspiring.
[34:02.880 --> 34:03.600]  Just talking.
[34:07.590 --> 34:21.190]  Besides, hasn't the Nazi phone voicemail people, haven't they requested a credit card from your organization, and you're simply responding to a credit request?
[34:21.450 --> 34:21.770]  Yes.
[34:27.250 --> 34:29.030]  Oh, I've really asked a question.
[34:29.170 --> 34:30.650]  Could I impart information in a question?
[34:33.190 --> 34:37.150]  No, we said we were going to have a contest of social engineering.
[34:37.310 --> 34:43.250]  I don't know if anybody wants to try their hand at social engineering, but we have to be careful of what kinds of things we do.
[34:43.390 --> 34:46.290]  So if you want to do something, let us know first what it is you're trying to do.
[34:46.570 --> 34:49.010]  And again, it can involve a toll call of any sort.
[34:50.050 --> 34:51.170]  Or if you have other questions.
[34:52.150 --> 34:53.150]  Or a local call, even.
[34:57.110 --> 34:57.830]  It depends.
[34:58.490 --> 34:59.410]  Let us know first.
[35:11.440 --> 35:12.300]  Pre-pay cards.
[35:12.400 --> 35:13.540]  Yeah, I found a couple of those, actually.
[35:14.840 --> 35:16.480]  Pre-pay cards are the newest thing.
[35:18.280 --> 35:18.680]  Yeah.
[35:20.360 --> 35:25.660]  Call an 800 number and you use up an account that has like $5 on it.
[35:26.300 --> 35:29.300]  Of course, if the account only has $4.50 on it, you'll never know.
[35:29.840 --> 35:31.140]  You'll have to take their word for it.
[35:31.820 --> 35:32.100]  Yes.
[35:36.800 --> 35:37.420]  Do you speak up?
[35:48.180 --> 35:49.520]  You can just ask for it.
[35:49.960 --> 35:52.480]  I used to not know what the name of their system was.
[35:52.480 --> 35:53.680]  I just called them up and asked them.
[35:53.860 --> 35:55.380]  I said, what is the name of the system you use there?
[35:55.500 --> 35:56.620]  And she was like, oh, CIS.
[35:57.100 --> 35:57.880]  And then I knew.
[35:57.880 --> 35:59.940]  And actually, another thing there.
[36:01.900 --> 36:07.140]  If you absolutely know nothing, then obviously you've just been thrown into this job.
[36:07.660 --> 36:10.080]  And my training session isn't until next week.
[36:10.500 --> 36:13.020]  And oh my God, how am I supposed to get through this?
[36:13.240 --> 36:16.260]  And could you please give me a hand and let me know what I'm supposed to know here?
[36:28.030 --> 36:30.450]  Operator strikes are opportune times.
[36:35.410 --> 36:38.230]  Operator strikes are
[36:41.420 --> 36:46.540]  opportune times.
[36:46.540 --> 36:48.640]  And once we were making phone calls to Iran.
[36:48.640 --> 36:50.060]  This was during the hostage crisis.
[36:50.600 --> 36:52.060]  Just think if we tried and see what happened.
[36:52.160 --> 36:52.940]  It was interesting.
[36:53.120 --> 36:54.520]  We actually got through to the embassy building.
[36:54.660 --> 36:57.820]  But we were making all our calls person to person to a hostage.
[37:03.060 --> 37:07.980]  And so the odds of actually getting that person was so fantastic that if we did reach them, it would be worth the cost.
[37:09.140 --> 37:14.140]  But we had an operator that stayed with us for, I think, 45 minutes trying to make that call.
[37:14.300 --> 37:15.980]  That was back pre-divestiture days.
[37:16.680 --> 37:18.660]  I don't know if you could get someone to do that these days.
[37:18.700 --> 37:19.760]  They're usually pretty impatient.
[37:19.900 --> 37:22.880]  And they get judged on how quickly they go through customers.
[37:23.240 --> 37:25.340]  In fact, I don't know how many people call information.
[37:25.340 --> 37:28.560]  But lots of times, you don't even speak to a human at all anymore.
[37:29.300 --> 37:30.660]  It's a recording that picks up.
[37:30.700 --> 37:31.940]  And it's a recording that gives you the number.
[37:32.540 --> 37:34.600]  And it's kind of...
[37:34.600 --> 37:35.520]  Have you...
[37:35.520 --> 37:36.860]  Let's try this with information.
[37:37.700 --> 37:39.680]  If you call a particular...
[37:39.680 --> 37:40.640]  The voice changes.
[37:40.840 --> 37:41.880]  And we'll show you how.
[37:43.280 --> 37:47.820]  Now, you're going to hear somebody saying, NYNEX or whatever, can I help you?
[37:48.000 --> 37:48.840]  I'll say, hello.
[37:49.060 --> 37:51.400]  And you'll hear a totally different voice come back to me as a human.
[38:04.130 --> 38:04.490]  Hello.
[38:04.830 --> 38:05.130]  Hello.
[38:05.650 --> 38:06.310]  Can I help you?
[38:06.470 --> 38:06.890]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[38:06.970 --> 38:07.750]  I must have the wrong number.
[38:07.870 --> 38:09.550]  Is this information?
[38:09.970 --> 38:10.590]  Yes, it is.
[38:10.830 --> 38:12.910]  Okay, I was looking for the number for directory assistance.
[38:13.830 --> 38:14.550]  Directory assistance?
[38:14.770 --> 38:14.990]  Yes.
[38:15.810 --> 38:17.990]  Directory assistance and information is the same, sir.
[38:18.530 --> 38:19.630]  Oh, that's not what I was told.
[38:20.010 --> 38:20.270]  No.
[38:21.610 --> 38:22.990]  Okay, what number do you have for that?
[38:23.570 --> 38:25.090]  What number do I have for what, sir?
[38:25.250 --> 38:26.150]  For directory assistance.
[38:27.210 --> 38:29.530]  This is directory assistance, ma'am.
[38:29.770 --> 38:29.950]  Help you.
[38:30.250 --> 38:30.930]  I need the number.
[38:31.790 --> 38:32.650]  Come on, sir.
[38:32.950 --> 38:33.290]  Thank you.
[38:40.970 --> 38:42.430]  I just like annoying this.
[38:55.610 --> 38:57.230]  Must be a lot of annoying calls today.
[39:08.170 --> 39:10.090]  Oh, any questions while we're waiting for this?
[39:19.310 --> 39:24.050]  That's an interesting one.
[39:24.210 --> 39:25.050]  Supervisor, Ms. Morris.
[39:25.210 --> 39:25.830]  Can I help you?
[39:25.830 --> 39:26.350]  Yeah, hi.
[39:26.490 --> 39:27.270]  I'm having difficulty.
[39:27.270 --> 39:31.090]  I was trying to get a number for directory assistance and I got transferred all over.
[39:32.570 --> 39:35.010]  Okay, this is the directory assistance supervisor.
[39:35.470 --> 39:36.450]  Okay, thank you.
[39:36.730 --> 39:37.190]  That's nice.
[39:37.310 --> 39:39.030]  But I need the number for directory assistance.
[39:39.430 --> 39:39.690]  Where?
[39:40.310 --> 39:40.730]  Uh, here.
[39:41.010 --> 39:41.530]  Right here.
[39:42.070 --> 39:42.630]  Uh, buckle.
[39:42.790 --> 39:43.070]  Right here.
[39:43.170 --> 39:44.170]  Okay, so I can help you.
[39:44.390 --> 39:45.350]  Okay, but I just need a number.
[39:45.430 --> 39:46.050]  That's all I want.
[39:46.850 --> 39:49.890]  It's 411 or 555-1212.
[39:49.890 --> 39:49.910]  No.
[39:50.230 --> 39:51.870]  Okay, and that would be what area code?
[39:53.250 --> 39:57.330]  If you don't need to dial an area code, which directory assistance are you looking for?
[39:57.690 --> 40:01.370]  As long as this operator told me I need to dial an area code whenever I can call something.
[40:01.370 --> 40:02.550]  No, it depends on where.
[40:02.690 --> 40:03.290]  Where you call.
[40:03.410 --> 40:11.730]  If you are in Manhattan and need information in any of the five boroughs, you can dial 555-1212 or just 411.
[40:12.370 --> 40:13.730]  Alright, which one is best to dial?
[40:14.270 --> 40:14.870]  Either one.
[40:14.930 --> 40:15.550]  It doesn't matter.
[40:16.250 --> 40:17.110]  They're both the same?
[40:17.250 --> 40:17.510]  Mm-hmm.
[40:17.710 --> 40:21.430]  Well, 411 you get an answer faster, probably.
[40:22.050 --> 40:22.410]  Really?
[40:22.490 --> 40:22.970]  Why is that?
[40:23.230 --> 40:24.710]  I really don't know, sir.
[40:24.930 --> 40:25.870]  What about ones?
[40:26.910 --> 40:27.910]  What do you mean one?
[40:28.090 --> 40:30.090]  Well, would I dial a one before any of that?
[40:30.090 --> 40:30.710]  No.
[40:31.030 --> 40:31.590]  If you're...
[40:32.150 --> 40:32.570]  Okay.
[40:32.650 --> 40:33.910]  Where are you calling from now?
[40:34.050 --> 40:34.550]  You're in Manhattan?
[40:34.850 --> 40:35.850]  Yeah, I'm in a big hotel.
[40:36.110 --> 40:36.330]  Okay.
[40:36.390 --> 40:42.850]  So you're in Manhattan and you want to get information for Manhattan or any of the four boroughs.
[40:43.050 --> 40:44.830]  You don't have to dial a one.
[40:44.990 --> 40:48.990]  You just dial 411 or 555-1212.
[40:49.330 --> 40:58.270]  If you want to get information in another area, in Westchester, then you would dial 1-914 and then 555.
[40:59.110 --> 41:00.410]  That's probably what she's calling.
[41:00.650 --> 41:02.070]  1-914-555?
[41:02.470 --> 41:03.290]  Okay, I didn't get that.
[41:03.310 --> 41:04.310]  1-2-1-2.
[41:04.510 --> 41:04.650]  What?
[41:05.730 --> 41:06.310]  I'm sorry.
[41:06.390 --> 41:07.130]  I didn't get that last point.
[41:07.210 --> 41:07.290]  What?
[41:08.530 --> 41:12.810]  1-914-555-1212.
[41:13.010 --> 41:13.770]  What number is that?
[41:13.770 --> 41:17.550]  If you wanted information in Westchester, I was just giving you an example there.
[41:18.150 --> 41:18.710]  Okay.
[41:18.990 --> 41:20.090]  I think I understand this.
[41:20.290 --> 41:20.430]  It's very confusing.
[41:20.430 --> 41:28.070]  If you wanted information in Jersey, then you would dial 1-201-555-1212 or wherever you...
[41:28.070 --> 41:29.990]  I think it's information overload here.
[41:29.990 --> 41:34.490]  I don't understand these area code things, but I'll...
[41:34.490 --> 41:34.530]  Okay.
[41:34.590 --> 41:35.150]  I guess I'll...
[41:35.250 --> 41:37.330]  Where do you want information from?
[41:37.670 --> 41:39.550]  You're looking for information right now.
[41:39.730 --> 41:40.150]  For where?
[41:40.730 --> 41:42.150]  From the phone company, really.
[41:42.370 --> 41:42.930]  That's...
[41:42.930 --> 41:43.350]  Okay.
[41:43.350 --> 41:45.110]  You want to get a telephone number?
[41:45.370 --> 41:46.830]  I'd look in the book, but it's not here.
[41:47.210 --> 41:47.410]  Okay.
[41:47.530 --> 41:49.090]  You want me to look up a number for you.
[41:49.190 --> 41:49.670]  Is that right?
[41:49.950 --> 41:50.370]  Well, no.
[41:50.810 --> 41:52.730]  You gave me the number already for directory assistance.
[41:52.810 --> 41:53.550]  That's the number I needed.
[41:54.290 --> 41:54.470]  Oh.
[41:54.770 --> 41:55.890]  Now, is there a charge for this?
[41:56.830 --> 41:57.170]  Yes.
[41:57.450 --> 41:57.670]  Okay.
[41:57.870 --> 42:02.630]  You're speaking with directory assistance now, so if you want to list it, I can look it up for you.
[42:02.730 --> 42:03.030]  Okay.
[42:03.290 --> 42:09.210]  Well, you already gave me the number I needed, which was 411 or 555-1212, so I actually got two numbers for one call.
[42:09.330 --> 42:09.530]  Right.
[42:09.750 --> 42:11.790]  Anywhere within the five boroughs, okay?
[42:11.790 --> 42:12.310]  Yeah.
[42:12.510 --> 42:13.390]  Within the five boroughs.
[42:13.570 --> 42:13.670]  Right.
[42:14.190 --> 42:14.470]  Okay.
[42:14.750 --> 42:17.210]  Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx, Queensboro, Staten Island.
[42:17.810 --> 42:18.030]  Okay.
[42:18.130 --> 42:18.670]  Thank you very much.
[42:18.830 --> 42:19.910]  That's more information for me.
[42:19.950 --> 42:20.230]  Thank you.
[42:20.470 --> 42:20.790]  Bye-bye.
[42:30.120 --> 42:31.120]  That was good.
[42:32.200 --> 42:33.740]  I think I made their day.
[42:35.860 --> 42:38.620]  They'll go home now and they'll tell their families about this.
[42:39.080 --> 42:40.380]  Any if they got the way.
[42:51.400 --> 42:51.780]  Question?
[42:52.080 --> 42:54.320]  Is there a message on the unlisted phone number?
[42:54.860 --> 42:55.480]  Oh, yeah, right.
[42:56.340 --> 43:04.660]  That's a new service where if somebody has an unlisted phone number, you can leave them a message, even though they have an unlisted phone number.
[43:04.700 --> 43:15.820]  You won't be able to call them directly, but the phone company will, for I think a dollar, take a one-minute message from you, and then you'll pick up your phone and you'll say, hey, so-and-so's trying to get a hold of you and your number's unlisted.
[43:16.180 --> 43:21.880]  I guess you hit a touch tone or something if you want to give him your number or you just get the message from that person and you call them back.
[43:21.880 --> 43:27.220]  It seems like, uh, it could be kind of useful, but it also seems a bit too expensive, a dollar a shot.
[43:29.120 --> 43:29.560]  Yeah.
[43:31.560 --> 43:32.260]  Uh-huh.
[43:34.940 --> 43:35.560]  That's true.
[43:36.080 --> 43:36.640]  That's true.
[43:36.720 --> 43:38.440]  So it is a way of delivering a threat set.
[43:42.220 --> 43:52.160]  Well, I find the best way to be, the best way to have an unlisted phone number is to put it under a fake name.
[43:52.760 --> 43:55.280]  And that way only people that know the fake name will get a hold of you.
[43:55.340 --> 44:00.120]  If you get a call for the fake name, you know they're going down the phone list and you know how to treat them.
[44:00.480 --> 44:06.340]  Uh, and that way also you don't have to pay the phone company not to have your name in their book, which is the most ridiculous charge they ever come up with.
[44:07.080 --> 44:08.140]  Can I make a suggestion?
[44:08.340 --> 44:08.500]  Yes.
[44:17.420 --> 44:20.380]  Oh, if we hang up on them before they actually give it out.
[44:21.120 --> 44:21.560]  Yes.
[44:21.560 --> 44:26.980]  They still have internal, the phone company used to have a thing called the unlisted bureau in many cities.
[44:27.420 --> 44:33.320]  I don't know if they still have it in New York, but what do you know the existence of one back, zero?
[44:33.660 --> 44:44.540]  And two, I'll be very blunt, in terms of automatic number identification, how many of the phone company CNA lines have those?
[44:45.200 --> 44:53.420]  And three, have you ever had some telephone security, 51, come after 2600 for this kind of stuff?
[44:54.040 --> 44:56.200]  All right, well, I think you should answer the question for the question.
[44:56.880 --> 44:57.240]  One,
[45:03.470 --> 45:05.790]  do they still have the old, let's call me unlisted?
[45:05.790 --> 45:08.270]  It's an internal line of the phone company.
[45:09.050 --> 45:10.490]  I've never experienced that.
[45:10.730 --> 45:21.710]  Well, what I've seen is, the phone company, most of the Bell systems, the RBOCs have this system called Premise, and this is documented in many places.
[45:21.970 --> 45:26.010]  It's called Premise, and they can put an address in there, and the phone number will come up.
[45:26.210 --> 45:30.670]  You don't need the person's name, all you need is a complete street address, and the phone number will come up.
[45:30.790 --> 45:37.470]  Now, some of them are pretty savvy, and they'll say, it's not listed, I'm not supposed to give it, but a lot of times they don't care.
[45:37.630 --> 45:38.930]  They really don't care, and they'll just give it out.
[45:39.930 --> 45:40.870]  Who runs Premise?
[45:40.970 --> 45:42.330]  Is that a phone company, or what?
[45:42.330 --> 45:43.550]  Yes, that is a phone company system.
[45:44.830 --> 45:46.090]  Now, you wanted to know if...
[45:46.090 --> 45:50.130]  1,600, you know, for these various bagged tricks.
[45:50.530 --> 45:52.310]  Have you ever had any problems with phone companies?
[45:52.530 --> 45:53.910]  They get angry at us occasionally.
[45:54.090 --> 45:59.230]  They threaten us to tell us not to do these things, but we always know where the lines are, and we don't cross those lines.
[45:59.890 --> 46:04.410]  Some things are public information, some things are private information, and the things we print are public.
[46:05.150 --> 46:05.510]  Yes?
[46:05.690 --> 46:14.670]  I just wanted to say, New York, the address doesn't give you a commercial phone number holder, but they're not supposed to give you a private phone, but they will give you from the address.
[46:14.870 --> 46:15.490]  You just ask them.
[46:15.950 --> 46:17.390]  How does that New York pitch on up?
[46:17.910 --> 46:22.970]  One of the hardest things, and one of the most annoying things I've found is getting the address of a pay phone.
[46:23.550 --> 46:31.310]  And that's something that, I don't know why they're so unwilling to part with this information, because if someone beeps you from a pay phone and it doesn't take incoming calls, has this ever happened to you?
[46:32.310 --> 46:35.130]  And you need to somehow reach the person and know where they are.
[46:36.750 --> 46:38.390]  It would be very handy to have.
[46:38.610 --> 46:39.790]  There are ways of getting that.
[46:39.810 --> 46:45.610]  I think through repair you can scam them into giving you the address, which is really something you should have in the first place.
[46:47.210 --> 46:47.570]  Yes?
[46:47.570 --> 46:58.740]  I'll get a million...
[47:03.500 --> 47:06.120]  They are also
[47:09.310 --> 47:11.790]  killed...
[47:11.790 --> 47:12.370]  Right?
[47:12.370 --> 47:15.330]  The sentence is an action code.
[47:16.670 --> 47:22.550]  And when they get it locked, they realize it's the answer.
[47:31.010 --> 47:32.870]  Can the panel repeat it please?
[47:33.730 --> 47:34.710]  So we can all hear?
[47:35.370 --> 47:37.290]  Stand up and press the crowd.
[47:38.190 --> 47:40.130]  Can you please just repeat what he said?
[47:47.490 --> 48:02.190]  He was explaining about a new kind of butt set that the linemen are carrying with a screen on it that can access any kind of number, private, unlisted, commercial, but it has a built-in access code.
[48:02.310 --> 48:18.150]  And once the access code has been turned off, which is why he hasn't gone to get one himself, it not only doesn't let the butt set access the computer, once the butt set discovers its access code is dead, it fries itself.
[48:21.830 --> 48:23.450]  I bet they fried a few by accident.
[48:25.030 --> 48:25.490]  All right.
[48:26.130 --> 48:29.330]  The thing I was going to say is that there is a number...
[48:29.330 --> 48:30.590]  I don't know if I should give it that.
[48:30.690 --> 48:32.570]  It's an 890 number that has a carrier tone.
[48:32.970 --> 48:37.830]  And when you call that number, you set the right settings, it disconnects you immediately.
[48:38.190 --> 48:46.850]  And what I was told was that that particular number has ANI, and it's set so that it can only be called by a certain phone number.
[48:47.530 --> 48:52.290]  And if it's not called by that phone number, it just throws you off.
[48:53.190 --> 48:54.330]  How long does it disconnect you for?
[48:55.350 --> 48:56.250]  I'm not sure.
[48:57.590 --> 48:57.850]  Forever?
[48:58.670 --> 48:59.510]  No, no, no, no.
[48:59.610 --> 49:01.550]  It not disconnect the phone number you're calling from.
[49:01.710 --> 49:02.850]  I'm saying it...
[49:03.950 --> 49:04.630]  Hangs up on you.
[49:04.630 --> 49:05.490]  It hangs up on you.
[49:07.690 --> 49:08.650]  Is that what it's called?
[49:09.910 --> 49:10.310]  Oh.
[49:11.730 --> 49:13.270]  I don't know if there are any rings.
[49:13.750 --> 49:14.150]  No.
[49:16.190 --> 49:29.510]  There are things out there called callback modems, which you call them up, and you tell it which of the five people that have access to it you are, or which of the five phone numbers it has built in by typing it the code.
[49:29.990 --> 49:41.670]  And it will then call back one of the five phone numbers that are put into the ROM inside the modem, so that anyone else calling into the modem cannot get carrier from the computer.
[49:41.670 --> 49:50.230]  The modem does this as a security measure before passing the data communications onto the machine.
[49:57.990 --> 50:07.530]  The modem is saying that you don't hang up, and you send it to some AT commands, some the link sends, the plus, plus, plus.
[50:07.750 --> 50:08.710]  You send it to OK.
[50:10.130 --> 50:14.110]  Some of these are slightly tackable, obviously, with the nodes.
[50:16.070 --> 50:18.890]  The JavaScript, or Velatone, whatever.
[50:19.370 --> 50:19.490]  ...
[50:19.490 --> 50:20.470]  ...
[50:24.160 --> 50:29.480]  Yeah, and software has callback features, so it doesn't have needs to be the hardware, you think.
[50:41.360 --> 50:44.440]  Okay, now everybody is watching the news, haven't you?
[50:45.840 --> 50:47.660]  And believing it works.
[50:48.540 --> 50:56.280]  Now, this is asking if it's possible for someone to dial up your modem and have it turn on your computer.
[50:57.340 --> 51:02.620]  Actually, there is a market on the market that will wake up your computer once the phone rings.
[51:02.620 --> 51:06.060]  But you have to specifically want that equipment on your line.
[51:06.640 --> 51:08.940]  It's not something that you've got to be done as a matter of course.
[51:09.380 --> 51:10.240]  Can I talk to you?
[51:10.240 --> 51:10.900]  You have to say.
[51:13.420 --> 51:19.060]  Is there a way that you can send them, like, a wrong number?
[51:23.740 --> 51:27.680]  We've had wrong numbers sent to us by the phone company.
[51:27.840 --> 51:32.500]  In fact, 5.6 area does one of the view that you don't have to dial one to get out of the area.
[51:32.500 --> 51:39.960]  So, which means that you cannot have an exchange that has a zero or a one as a middle digit because the switch doesn't have no way of knowing if you don't have any further exchange.
[51:40.600 --> 51:45.660]  Well, we got a phone call from the phone company and it showed up on the line of being a caller ID on it.
[51:45.740 --> 51:47.560]  It showed up as 215-XXXX.
[51:48.940 --> 51:52.380]  And, of course, it's impossible to be a 215 exchange in 516.
[51:52.520 --> 51:55.820]  And I asked them about this and they said, yeah, that's how it shows up when the phone company is calling.
[51:55.820 --> 51:58.260]  It gets that consult number or something.
[51:58.440 --> 52:01.420]  So, it's possible to change that number in some way.
[52:02.480 --> 52:03.640]  I don't know how to do it yet.
[52:05.100 --> 52:20.280]  You mentioned a social engineering phone company, but you should also realize that just about any big corporation can be compromised in this way very easily with little or no knowledge from that company just by some of the methods that you're using here.
[52:20.280 --> 52:20.620]  Oh, yes.
[52:20.720 --> 52:24.860]  Somebody said, we're the big bad wolf because we know how to deal with computer security.
[52:25.080 --> 52:26.160]  This is called network.
[52:26.360 --> 52:27.260]  This is doing business.
[52:27.400 --> 52:28.900]  This is getting through the secretary.
[52:29.200 --> 52:29.680]  Right.
[52:29.920 --> 52:30.060]  Right.
[52:31.840 --> 52:34.420]  I have been to computer security conferences.
[52:35.220 --> 52:35.840]  I don't know.
[52:36.060 --> 52:37.880]  I'm saying people have got a sign up.
[52:38.060 --> 52:39.080]  This is like not a thing.
[52:39.080 --> 52:39.400]  Oh, yeah.
[52:39.820 --> 52:41.580]  Well, it's called every day.
[52:41.960 --> 52:42.240]  Right.
[52:43.500 --> 52:50.160]  The thing is that, well, they're worried about those computer hackers, worried about all the information stored in their computer.
[52:50.660 --> 52:52.440]  The key word is information.
[52:53.380 --> 52:56.420]  And what this is, is you're an information security.
[52:57.460 --> 53:01.540]  And in the old days, it was filed in file folders inside file drawers.
[53:01.880 --> 53:04.580]  And in a lot of small companies, it's still that way today.
[53:04.800 --> 53:13.040]  In social engineering, you may be looking for something to open a file drawer, pull out a file, open that file, and read you some information.
[53:13.040 --> 53:24.940]  And the reason it's social engineering and not technological engineering is because you are trying to use the social traces to get that information out of the company or whatever.
[53:28.900 --> 53:29.780]  I'm sorry.
[53:30.420 --> 53:30.760]  I'm sorry.
[53:30.800 --> 53:31.000]  I need one.
[53:33.620 --> 53:35.720]  Who wants to buy you at your lunch, right?
[53:36.000 --> 53:37.200]  I got it right here.
[53:37.740 --> 53:38.260]  All right, I got it.
[53:38.480 --> 53:38.680]  Good.
[53:38.880 --> 53:39.040]  Fair.
[53:39.500 --> 53:39.720]  Okay.
[53:41.260 --> 53:42.760]  When did social engineering go?
[53:42.820 --> 53:43.940]  At the computer shows.
[53:44.200 --> 53:45.720]  The computer security shows.
[53:45.720 --> 53:49.720]  The single most important thing I saw at them.
[53:49.820 --> 53:50.940]  And I saw hardware.
[53:51.420 --> 53:52.800]  I saw software.
[53:53.040 --> 53:54.180]  I saw firmware.
[53:54.540 --> 54:02.700]  I saw hand traps that would let you into the one small crawl space and then wouldn't let you out to what you think you're getting the access.
[54:03.360 --> 54:06.240]  The most important thing I saw were the videos.
[54:06.440 --> 54:15.200]  The movies that you show your employees and wake them up to the fact that it's information security and not just computer security.
[54:17.600 --> 54:18.160]  Yes?
[54:18.320 --> 54:19.300]  A question.
[54:19.940 --> 54:24.960]  A lot of people call these numbers I mentioned before when some of them are not voicemails.
[54:25.180 --> 54:26.200]  They're right out of people's homes.
[54:26.200 --> 54:30.300]  Technically, I've heard rumors that Metzger has developed.
[54:30.500 --> 54:32.960]  He's a computer expert and a television expert.
[54:33.280 --> 54:42.420]  On the white airing resistance hotline, he has a national caller ID that shows every single number that people have called from.
[54:42.560 --> 54:48.820]  As well as we've heard rumors that AT&T does traces to him on their white airing resistance hotline.
[54:48.820 --> 54:49.180]  A question.
[54:49.420 --> 54:50.540]  How do you override that?
[54:51.320 --> 54:51.320]  B.
[54:51.460 --> 54:54.220]  Does such a thing exist interstate, from state to state?
[54:54.480 --> 54:54.740]  And three.
[54:55.240 --> 54:56.360]  How do you prevent the start?
[54:56.740 --> 54:59.540]  You have one large question, two large questions.
[54:59.820 --> 55:00.160]  Thank you.
[55:02.740 --> 55:05.960]  How do you make sure that the neo-Nazis don't get the number you're called out?
[55:05.960 --> 55:06.220]  No.
[55:09.220 --> 55:12.920]  All right, all right, all right, all right, all right.
[55:13.380 --> 55:18.480]  You don't have to be afraid of the neo-Nazis to, uh...
[55:19.500 --> 55:24.120]  All right, start at 5-7 is something that, uh, that is a big waste of time.
[55:25.020 --> 55:25.520]  It's very...
[55:25.520 --> 55:25.920]  It's not specific.
[55:26.400 --> 55:28.400]  You have to specifically agree to that, right?
[55:29.460 --> 55:30.360]  How do you want to trade?
[55:30.360 --> 55:38.480]  There are two, there are two long-distance companies that we know of that pass caller ID information, actually that take A&I information and turn into caller ID information.
[55:38.560 --> 55:40.380]  Those are capable of wireless than Wiltel.
[55:40.820 --> 55:47.560]  Uh, you can, uh, preface any phone call at 1-0-5-5-5 if you want to use Wiltel and have your number pass along as caller ID.
[55:48.080 --> 55:50.740]  One day, every company is probably going to do this.
[55:50.900 --> 55:57.680]  In fact, the FCC has already mandated that nationwide caller ID take effect next year, overriding all state, uh, regulations.
[55:58.340 --> 56:03.240]  The ways to get around it, going through operators, uh, going through alternative long-distance carriers.
[56:03.860 --> 56:07.320]  Um, it's, it's becoming, it's becoming a bit tricky.
[56:07.340 --> 56:14.780]  The average person, and we, we, we see a lot of people that, uh, that, uh, have one who remain private that don't melt pound.
[56:15.120 --> 56:16.340]  The average person is starting to get more difficult.
[56:21.240 --> 56:27.620]  There are at least two companies that have 900 numbers that are, in case of, uh, phone call remailers, like I was talking about last year.
[56:27.620 --> 56:31.540]  There's one called Traceless International Telephone and one called Stopper.
[56:31.700 --> 56:35.840]  Now, the Traceless International Telephone guy is really interesting because he's big in the bank secrecy community.
[56:36.100 --> 56:39.960]  And you can actually call up his thing with an encrypted phone which costs $2,500.
[56:40.760 --> 56:43.280]  And you can call Geneva through his line.
[56:43.440 --> 56:46.060]  And even if they have the local line, they don't get local information.
[56:46.260 --> 56:46.760]  And they can't.
[56:47.200 --> 56:48.640]  You can even go see where you're calling from.
[56:48.960 --> 56:50.420]  He's got a really interesting service.
[56:51.660 --> 56:54.460]  We're going to interrupt this up because we have another panel waiting, so.
[56:54.660 --> 56:56.300]  A few more questions and then go ahead.
[56:56.620 --> 57:02.480]  I've been informed that the Stopper was constructed as a guy operating it.
[57:03.340 --> 57:07.160]  And no one, neither that person or anyone else can trace.
[57:07.380 --> 57:09.980]  Can anyone give me any more current information about Stopper?
[57:10.220 --> 57:13.120]  It's supposed to be untraceable and I've heard this pretty recently.
[57:13.120 --> 57:15.040]  Has anyone heard it in your test?
[57:15.540 --> 57:17.480]  Well, it's 1-800 Stopper for their morning.
[57:17.480 --> 57:19.460]  1-95 in the minute, 1-9-9-9.
[57:19.680 --> 57:21.500]  And you should check it periodically.
[57:22.620 --> 57:26.780]  Because I think we're looking for ways to keep our numbers private without spending $1.5.
[57:28.120 --> 57:29.640]  It could glass you off more.
[57:30.420 --> 57:30.560]  Yeah.
[57:32.680 --> 57:33.640]  Go ahead.
[57:35.020 --> 57:37.060]  Why don't we ask for our name is?
[57:37.980 --> 57:38.840]  I call...
[57:38.840 --> 57:39.100]  I call from...
[57:40.940 --> 57:42.640]  They do have my number wherever they call him.
[57:42.700 --> 57:47.620]  They call him the number that I do not know of and it will bring out my number that is available.
[57:48.760 --> 57:50.180]  Just regularly long distance?
[57:50.680 --> 57:54.580]  I call, I just call him to drive, then they will have my number in three.
[57:54.820 --> 57:56.100]  What long distance number he has.
[57:56.300 --> 57:56.920]  AT&T.
[57:56.920 --> 57:58.900]  Call it, tell what you want to block it.
[58:00.440 --> 58:03.020]  But that's only statewide, because it's national, I don't know what's...
[58:03.020 --> 58:05.020]  It's AT&T, but you can't do that.
[58:05.280 --> 58:05.980]  Not yet, anyway.
[58:22.690 --> 58:24.070]  Oh, no, I'm sorry.
[58:24.550 --> 58:29.090]  It was one of the... what I was looking at in the computer, it was a very great show.
[58:30.770 --> 58:32.650]  Actually, let me address that for one minute.
[58:32.650 --> 58:46.290]  I went to a site that actually had the Mantrap system, and they had the corner we came down, where you walked into the foyer to the computer room.
[58:46.790 --> 58:49.370]  Then you would insert the car, walk into the Mantrap.
[58:49.850 --> 58:51.990]  You know, rack panels appear, right?
[58:52.550 --> 58:55.890]  And then insert the car on the other side, and it would let me through.
[58:57.090 --> 59:02.550]  Meanwhile, if you unscrewed some of the equipment in the rack panel, you could walk through.
[59:02.750 --> 59:06.690]  It was all raised floor, you could pull out of under and up.
[59:07.390 --> 59:09.190]  Ceilings, with old arms strong.
[59:10.190 --> 59:11.930]  And this was secure.
[59:13.470 --> 59:16.290]  I knew exactly how I was going to make the movie.
[59:23.380 --> 59:24.100]  Sir?
[59:25.140 --> 59:25.980]  Oh, firmware.
[59:26.320 --> 59:28.660]  It's a reference to EPROMs.
[59:28.680 --> 59:34.180]  Reageable, programmable, read-only memories, where a program is then burned into hardware.
[59:34.480 --> 59:41.260]  So your software is now firmly entrenched in hardware, and this is referred to as firmware.
[59:42.400 --> 59:48.040]  And you need to pull out the one chip and put in another chip with a different firmware program on it.
[59:49.320 --> 59:49.760]  Okay.
[59:50.080 --> 59:50.600]  We've done here.
[59:50.760 --> 59:53.740]  Our next panel is the author panel, we'll be starting in about ten minutes.
[59:54.020 --> 59:54.600]  Thank you.