[00:00.160 --> 00:25.220]  By the way, a long-held thing I do is I wait a couple minutes until after the official start time, because now there's an... thank you, because now there's an elevator and a hallway where experiments the government had to apologize for 25 years later between then and now.
[00:25.920 --> 00:31.600]  So I totally like to let people who are a little bit behind drift in.
[00:35.300 --> 00:36.840]  We're starting to see the assemblance.
[00:36.980 --> 00:39.660]  So it was like two or three people, first HOPE ever.
[00:40.480 --> 00:41.960]  Couple first trope ever.
[00:42.560 --> 00:45.320]  How many people came to the last one that was here?
[00:46.780 --> 00:47.300]  Fantastic.
[00:47.960 --> 00:55.200]  How many went to the ones before that, then went, no, I don't want to go to...
[00:55.200 --> 00:59.580]  Queens and then realized, oh, life is short and I might as well go to Queens.
[01:00.040 --> 01:00.540]  Excellent.
[01:00.740 --> 01:00.920]  Okay.
[01:01.060 --> 01:01.260]  Good.
[01:02.000 --> 01:02.500]  Excellent.
[01:02.840 --> 01:03.880]  That's a good sign.
[01:04.260 --> 01:05.780]  Is my voice too loud?
[01:06.420 --> 01:06.920]  Okay.
[01:07.440 --> 01:08.640]  That's what people say.
[01:08.760 --> 01:09.380]  It's okay.
[01:11.640 --> 01:12.540]  It's okay.
[01:13.620 --> 01:18.140]  How many people are here because they saw the title?
[01:18.460 --> 01:23.120]  They don't know who I am and they figure why not?
[01:24.420 --> 01:25.840]  Oh, shiznat.
[01:26.100 --> 01:26.220]  Okay.
[01:26.340 --> 01:27.280]  You're in for a ride.
[01:28.740 --> 01:29.860]  I usually wait a couple.
[01:32.760 --> 01:37.780]  And then, um, how many people here actually don't really care what it is I'm talking about.
[01:37.780 --> 01:39.100]  It's just, it's me talking.
[01:39.320 --> 01:41.660]  It's going to be a good, gonna be a ride.
[01:41.820 --> 01:42.140]  Okay.
[01:42.320 --> 01:42.740]  That's good.
[01:44.080 --> 01:48.580]  Um, I think anything else I need to know about this audience?
[01:54.150 --> 02:07.970]  Oh, well, yeah, but I mean, in terms of, I mean, I was trying to, like the, the weirdest ones are the ones who said a preparation kit for increasing irrelevance, which means nothing.
[02:09.250 --> 02:10.390]  I better go.
[02:11.050 --> 02:12.650]  I can't miss that one.
[02:13.490 --> 02:15.230]  That's fascinating to me.
[02:16.450 --> 02:23.550]  I'm always fascinated by the psychology of these conferences because in regular conferences, we're all here for the food extract.
[02:23.870 --> 02:26.910]  And so we want to see the people from the food extract biggies.
[02:27.070 --> 02:28.950]  And then we want to learn about the new food extracts.
[02:29.010 --> 02:32.910]  And you gotta go, it's all very straight and clear forward.
[02:33.110 --> 02:36.570]  Here you come and it's like jello shots, the new Wi-Fi.
[02:38.670 --> 02:41.270]  And you're like, well, strap in, here we go.
[02:41.990 --> 02:46.270]  And remember for the young ones, we didn't have smartphones.
[02:46.270 --> 02:55.790]  You were locked in, you know, the same kind of personality type that would show up to this thing and find themselves locked in with no smartphone.
[02:55.790 --> 03:01.010]  Didn't the personal, uh, self-esteem to just get up and leave.
[03:02.210 --> 03:03.650]  So you were in.
[03:05.610 --> 03:07.210]  Nobody wanted to be there.
[03:07.730 --> 03:10.870]  The person on the podium or the person who was there.
[03:11.350 --> 03:12.390]  What's new with you, Greg?
[03:13.650 --> 03:14.570]  What's new with you?
[03:16.390 --> 03:16.910]  Yeah.
[03:18.870 --> 03:19.810]  Hackers got talent.
[03:20.110 --> 03:24.230]  Um, yeah, I figured I'd put that at the end, but, um, I'm co I'm hosting.
[03:24.670 --> 03:27.530]  Uh, although I often find I end up with a secret co-host.
[03:27.930 --> 03:31.730]  Um, hackers got talent tomorrow night for the people who've never been to that.
[03:31.890 --> 03:34.090]  We just suddenly got this idea to fill some time.
[03:35.110 --> 03:38.590]  Oh, people want to do something, but they don't want to do a talk.
[03:38.970 --> 03:40.730]  Come on down and win a prize.
[03:41.210 --> 03:43.030]  Last time we smashed a laptop.
[03:44.150 --> 03:46.090]  Before that we've had sumo dancers.
[03:46.470 --> 03:47.430]  We've had, it's been released.
[03:48.370 --> 03:49.650]  Where are we at time wise?
[03:50.190 --> 03:53.610]  Oh, you're always ready to introduce me, but 102.
[03:54.130 --> 03:55.030]  Oh, is that it?
[03:55.550 --> 03:55.950]  All right.
[03:56.030 --> 03:56.510]  Go ahead, Greg.
[03:59.370 --> 04:00.230]  How's everyone doing?
[04:01.110 --> 04:01.510]  Okay.
[04:02.210 --> 04:02.510]  All right.
[04:04.110 --> 04:04.950]  Registration happened.
[04:05.250 --> 04:06.530]  Rain just passed through.
[04:06.710 --> 04:08.930]  I don't know if it's coming back or not, but it wasn't that big deal.
[04:09.190 --> 04:10.530]  Uh, the food back there.
[04:10.670 --> 04:11.610]  I don't know if anyone's tried it.
[04:11.730 --> 04:12.350]  It wasn't too bad.
[04:12.350 --> 04:13.350]  I got one of the sandwich.
[04:14.510 --> 04:14.910]  Right.
[04:15.470 --> 04:18.270]  And, um, and we're here to have a great time.
[04:18.470 --> 04:23.570]  So, uh, without further ado, this is the preparation kit for increasing irrelevance.
[04:23.850 --> 04:24.370]  Jay, go ahead.
[04:29.780 --> 04:30.180]  Hmm.
[04:30.180 --> 04:30.580]  Okay.
[04:30.780 --> 04:36.960]  I've got 50 minutes to change your mind, change your life and have you go through the rest of the conference going, are they all going to be like this?
[04:37.100 --> 04:41.320]  And then finding out, no, no, it's not.
[04:41.500 --> 04:43.380]  Uh, my name is Jason Scott.
[04:43.380 --> 04:48.520]  For some people, it's a straightforward situation of like, oh, it's that Jason Scott guy.
[04:48.740 --> 04:51.260]  I got a Wikipedia entry, which means nothing.
[04:52.080 --> 04:55.280]  It's even less transactable than a dead alt coin.
[04:55.400 --> 04:58.240]  It is absolutely worthless, but it is fun that I'm up there.
[04:58.260 --> 05:00.440]  And I work for the Internet archive.
[05:00.640 --> 05:08.760]  I did a bunch of other work here and there, and I've been involved in a bunch of things because this conference is once every two years.
[05:09.700 --> 05:12.120]  It's like a, you know, a stop motion film.
[05:12.280 --> 05:14.300]  It's like what happened to you in the last two years.
[05:14.420 --> 05:23.340]  So I can summarize my, uh, last two years as simply, I was sitting in my very normal, very straightforward workspace.
[05:23.340 --> 05:35.280]  And I was using ChatGPT on a AI transcribed VHS tape, um, where it told me a whole bunch of wonderful things.
[05:35.280 --> 05:41.200]  This podcast delves into the intricate dynamics of motorcycle maintenance and the challenges faced by enthusiasts.
[05:41.200 --> 05:44.000]  It opens with them discussing problems with their bike.
[05:44.140 --> 05:53.020]  They move through discussing the often, you know, major problems with repairing a bike, but they emphasize, gotta check all of these things.
[05:53.020 --> 06:01.420]  Anyway, it's a porn tape and I digitized, uh, it's actually a really interesting porn tape because it's the raw footage.
[06:01.940 --> 06:08.200]  So it's like actors in it are turning to the camera, trying to verify their line.
[06:10.620 --> 06:12.840]  Anyway, so that's up on the Internet archive.
[06:13.160 --> 06:13.580]  You're welcome.
[06:15.060 --> 06:22.620]  Uh, last time I was here, I gave a talk called in which interlaced video digitization makes me forget about dying for a while.
[06:23.320 --> 06:27.200]  And so naturally for the people who, again, I'm brand new to you.
[06:28.140 --> 06:39.760]  Um, well, good luck, but the other people are like, okay, well, what the most salient question nowadays, when you see me talk at HOPE is how many dead people are in Jason's talk this year?
[06:41.940 --> 06:43.200]  The answer is four.
[06:44.660 --> 06:45.100]  The answer is four.
[06:45.100 --> 06:45.580]  So far.
[06:47.260 --> 06:59.960]  Anyway, so here's a little old me, you know, one of the things that I've always been fascinated by over the years has been, you know, kind of not just the experience of living in what we think of as like a hacker world.
[06:59.960 --> 07:06.800]  Or what we thought of as a hacker world and being in this other alternate dimension of existence.
[07:07.180 --> 07:11.800]  But for me, it was both functioning as an observer and as a participant.
[07:11.800 --> 07:16.000]  So I would be in the phone conferences, but I would also record the phone conferences.
[07:16.000 --> 07:22.780]  Or I would go to places that were online, but I would also take enormous amounts of copies of them.
[07:22.780 --> 07:33.080]  Things that were completely irrelevant to my current day, but which in, uh, some sort of perceived HOPE would eventually have some sort of value, right?
[07:33.540 --> 07:36.160]  So that got out of completely, completely out of hand.
[07:36.360 --> 07:45.640]  Um, the world that I was growing up in as a teen is this perceived world, this media of hackerdom.
[07:45.640 --> 07:49.760]  Um, and what you see here are combinations, right?
[07:50.380 --> 07:59.360]  Of both actual folk photography, you know, very, um, uh, straightforward black and white photos taken on phone trips.
[07:59.640 --> 08:05.180]  When they would find obscure phone exchanges that were still using old equipment and mess with them.
[08:05.360 --> 08:15.620]  Along with images of movie, uh, movies that would, uh, have all of these, uh, uh, kind of idealized version of what being a hacker is.
[08:15.620 --> 08:20.360]  That you would work on an MSI and anybody else would be interested in watching you do it.
[08:20.920 --> 08:25.800]  Or, uh, in the upper left, just for trivia sake, that's one of the 414s.
[08:26.580 --> 08:29.400]  Again, uh, one of the 414 hackers were in Michigan.
[08:29.400 --> 08:34.300]  They made a little mess and somehow the world decided that they were the brand new hot thing.
[08:34.460 --> 08:41.540]  That lasted about 12 minutes, but it's a beautiful image, not just of them, but also like kind of what computers were.
[08:41.540 --> 08:51.020]  And there are these images as we move through the nineties, you know, eighties, nineties, and up to today that are, you know, Relevations of what computers were to human beings.
[08:51.460 --> 09:00.560]  And I've always felt that like we would focus on kind of a demonstrative view of what computers are, right?
[09:00.560 --> 09:04.440]  So just for the trivia, the suck of it, there's hackers movie.
[09:04.680 --> 09:06.160]  There's the max headroom incident.
[09:06.420 --> 09:07.740]  There is a land party.
[09:07.760 --> 09:12.600]  That is actually Bill Landreth who wrote a book on hacking and then went homeless.
[09:12.820 --> 09:16.560]  And somebody tracked him down and interviewed him for about a day or two.
[09:17.580 --> 09:21.300]  Um, what I ended up doing was creating text files.com.
[09:21.500 --> 09:32.060]  And the reason I created text files.com in 98 was very specifically thinking about the fact that, and again, this was when I was 28.
[09:33.800 --> 09:36.360]  So I thought it was done.
[09:36.880 --> 09:40.180]  And by it, I just mean people and computers.
[09:40.180 --> 09:46.320]  Like we finished, like nobody talks about brand new advances and people and mops.
[09:46.900 --> 09:49.440]  Nobody thinks about people and screwdrivers.
[09:49.600 --> 09:51.280]  You might get an electric screwdriver.
[09:51.540 --> 09:54.840]  You might get a solar powered screwdriver, but it's a screwdriver.
[09:55.100 --> 09:55.860]  We are, we're all there.
[09:56.040 --> 10:01.440]  And I was fairly sure we were kind of there now with the Internet and with computers.
[10:01.580 --> 10:08.340]  And I was worried that the early history of the bulletin board was going to fall under the loam.
[10:08.340 --> 10:13.140]  And the reason I felt that way was because I had seen it being done with everything else.
[10:13.520 --> 10:19.820]  With, uh, horse-drawn carriages and hippies and, uh, World War II.
[10:20.100 --> 10:24.700]  You know, they were being turned into a combination of plushy dolls and remember when.
[10:24.920 --> 10:33.600]  And there was not really any sense, again, to a 28 year old who was kind of glancing out that this wasn't also going to happen with computers.
[10:33.600 --> 10:39.840]  Um, now one of the advantages that I had was that many of the artifacts were digital.
[10:41.020 --> 10:45.260]  So making them available to others was very simple, right?
[10:45.620 --> 10:52.880]  So what you end up with with textfiles.com is a, basically a big pile of digital artifacts.
[10:53.080 --> 10:57.840]  And I'm still in the digital artifacts business and I'm still enjoying it very much.
[10:57.840 --> 11:06.220]  Um, you know, when we see something like this, um, this, this is a piece of subculture, right?
[11:06.700 --> 11:08.580]  Uh, this is a lot of stuff.
[11:09.060 --> 11:10.680]  This is a ton of stuff.
[11:10.760 --> 11:13.820]  And I got notification that, that this was available.
[11:13.820 --> 11:19.700]  So I drove up and with my friend Lajrina, we were able to load these things in there.
[11:19.700 --> 11:21.220]  And what are they?
[11:21.640 --> 11:25.160]  Uh, well, whatever they are, there's 900 pounds of it.
[11:25.280 --> 11:25.360]  Right?
[11:26.220 --> 11:32.940]  And you're like, well, Jason, obviously what precious thing did you drive through two states and break your back loading?
[11:33.100 --> 11:41.080]  Well, that would be, um, erotic fan fiction magazines of the 1970s and 1980s.
[11:41.080 --> 11:45.820]  Um, so that is one spicy, spicy Luke Skywalker.
[11:46.180 --> 11:50.300]  Um, artifacts are only half the story though, right?
[11:50.500 --> 12:14.420]  Because these other people who worked behind the scenes in the erotic fan fiction newsletter biz of the, the 1970s and sixties, um, they had all sorts of intercultural battles about how they would tell the stories, how would they would indicate them, how they would tell the stories to others.
[12:14.580 --> 12:18.540]  The fact that it was underground, that it was sitting under, does this sound familiar?
[12:18.800 --> 12:24.400]  Sitting underneath this, you know, constant corporate cloud of when they pair up, not kidding.
[12:24.960 --> 12:29.580]  Starsky and Hutch with Spock and, uh, uh, Kirk.
[12:29.920 --> 12:32.580]  Um, it, it was a true love.
[12:32.700 --> 12:34.120]  It was a love that came on the ship.
[12:34.260 --> 12:35.040]  It was a love that anyway.
[12:35.200 --> 12:38.540]  So, um, how were they going to do this?
[12:38.540 --> 12:43.760]  And when I was showing up, it was to some extent over.
[12:44.440 --> 12:49.960]  Um, it was over because the person who gave these to me was 80.
[12:50.780 --> 12:55.120]  She had been the remaining person who had the artifacts.
[12:55.340 --> 13:00.040]  In other words, there had been multiple competing libraries of erotic fan fiction.
[13:00.040 --> 13:09.420]  And they had slowly, as each person got out, massed up until finally it was 900 pounds of smut.
[13:10.220 --> 13:18.920]  And, and I was charged with taking it where it now sits in the Internet archive, um, uh, warehouse.
[13:18.920 --> 13:21.880]  And I'm not sure my boss knows that, but all right.
[13:23.600 --> 13:26.380]  So here's like an artifact that has all sorts of different meaning.
[13:26.520 --> 13:27.920]  That's actually Robert Heinlein.
[13:28.760 --> 13:31.680]  And Robert Heinlein is doing autographs.
[13:31.760 --> 13:35.740]  So there's the boy, but I'm not talking about, I'm not actually interested in Robert Heinlein.
[13:35.840 --> 13:37.320]  I'm interested in the guy on the right.
[13:37.880 --> 13:40.700]  So the guy on the right is actually Cheshire Catalyst.
[13:40.700 --> 13:45.580]  And Cheshire Catalyst for the people who are new, who didn't know this gentleman.
[13:45.860 --> 13:51.080]  Uh, he was a beautiful ideal, a beautiful platonic ideal of a historic hacker.
[13:51.260 --> 13:51.860]  He was friendly.
[13:52.060 --> 13:52.860]  He was energetic.
[13:53.160 --> 14:01.120]  He was running the kinds of jobs you do because everybody else puts their hand down and he steps forward and takes it.
[14:01.260 --> 14:09.020]  So a real powerhouse behind the scenes of HOPE, but his history extends not just backwards.
[14:09.020 --> 14:17.920]  You know, we have a certain number of gray beard people who are involved in things, but we also have people who are not just involved in this world.
[14:18.160 --> 14:22.820]  You know, they're not one dimensional beings that move on a line through time.
[14:23.040 --> 14:35.280]  So he's also known or was known as the space hobo where he was there for all the launches in Florida where he lived and lived incredibly close to the edge.
[14:35.280 --> 14:49.660]  I don't, I don't consider it, uh, inappropriate to say that his income was very meager, but he would find ways to hitchhike and otherwise get up to the HOPE conferences where he'd stay with his brother and come here and sleep where he needed to.
[14:49.660 --> 14:53.660]  But he also portrayed himself as the space hobo.
[14:53.820 --> 14:59.700]  And I'm not sure how much we're doing to commemorate his memory this year, but, um, I am.
[15:00.060 --> 15:01.700]  So I loved the guy.
[15:01.880 --> 15:02.860]  I thought he was amazing.
[15:03.060 --> 15:08.400]  Um, what I'm really happy about was that one of the last conversations we had, I gave him a few bucks for lunch.
[15:08.400 --> 15:12.160]  To just tell you, you know, just enjoying his, his wonderful company.
[15:12.400 --> 15:24.460]  Um, but in this other community, the space hobo was remembered and there's no real Venn diagram between that community and this one.
[15:24.620 --> 15:31.740]  You know, for them, he was the guy who was always going to be at the launches, who would call out the numbers, who would make sure everybody knew.
[15:32.140 --> 15:40.780]  And except for the fact that he is the person who initiated what became the three, two, one, um, uh, yeah, three, two, one lift.
[15:40.880 --> 15:41.880]  Well, that's his phone number.
[15:41.940 --> 15:42.960]  Don't dox the man.
[15:44.020 --> 15:46.480]  Um, if he picks up, let me know.
[15:47.080 --> 15:51.900]  Um, but he created the three, two, one area code idea and pushed it.
[15:52.000 --> 15:56.200]  And so as a result, the place where launches go off is, is area code three, two, one.
[15:57.040 --> 15:59.640]  He talked about that here, but that was about it.
[15:59.640 --> 16:02.180]  Like it, it, that was the extent of the overlap.
[16:02.380 --> 16:02.480]  Right.
[16:03.040 --> 16:08.340]  Um, and I, and looking into his life, um, on the left is his high school yearbook photo.
[16:10.480 --> 16:15.340]  So not only do you have, you know, a sense of on the right, right.
[16:15.620 --> 16:22.040]  His, his interacting with science fiction and meeting Robert Heinlein and he's wearing a space internal suit while he's talking to him.
[16:22.040 --> 16:28.680]  And on the left, clearly at a young age, he and space are in love.
[16:28.800 --> 16:34.520]  So it's natural that he would fall for a large virtual computer as well, living in, in phones.
[16:35.320 --> 16:41.800]  Um, a piece of footage that came out of him recently was because he was the last editor of TAP.
[16:41.800 --> 16:51.540]  And by the, I mean, the last editor of TAP, uh, the technological assistance program, which was a newsletter that's a predecessor of 2600, just really died.
[16:51.820 --> 16:53.040]  Like it just died out.
[16:53.220 --> 16:55.560]  And it was a big financial mess at the end.
[16:55.560 --> 17:02.860]  Um, the fact that TAP lasted as long as it did, you know, come out of Abby Hoffman and the Yippies and the international party line and then move.
[17:03.000 --> 17:08.420]  Like it was a mirror, you know, every issue is a miracle with something like that.
[17:08.460 --> 17:14.780]  And it survived up into the early eighties and then died and people had invested.
[17:15.660 --> 17:16.180]  Okay.
[17:16.460 --> 17:17.120]  Let's okay.
[17:17.340 --> 17:17.660]  All right.
[17:17.860 --> 17:18.940]  Side side thing.
[17:20.580 --> 17:23.340]  You know how Kickstarters call themselves investors.
[17:27.060 --> 17:27.660]  Okay.
[17:28.060 --> 17:28.540]  Yeah.
[17:28.740 --> 17:43.380]  So when a Kickstarter person reads a quick HTML and browses through two MP4 files and it considers themselves to have done due diligence and they are now investing their $10 into the project.
[17:43.520 --> 17:47.280]  And then it turns out they're $10, which is less than a slot machine.
[17:47.540 --> 17:48.640]  Pull didn't pay off.
[17:48.900 --> 17:55.220]  They, they're free to be annoyed, annoyed in that way that your bread came late at the restaurant.
[17:55.220 --> 17:59.020]  But not like somebody smite your daughter with a hammer.
[17:59.320 --> 18:01.840]  And a lot of them come out the second way.
[18:02.260 --> 18:11.360]  This was a smite my daughter with the hammer situation where, um, uh, Cheshire came out and was talking about various things.
[18:11.380 --> 18:18.600]  And at this things got ugly because people were still unhappy about the incidents of three or four years previously where TAP didn't work out.
[18:18.600 --> 18:27.520]  In the ashes of TAP, a young silly boy who liked radio decided to make his own little zine.
[18:27.660 --> 18:29.500]  And that's how we got 2600.
[18:30.020 --> 18:34.560]  And from 2600, he was welcomed back into the fold.
[18:34.560 --> 18:37.920]  So there's a whole story there, a whole epic.
[18:38.200 --> 18:44.660]  And the question is how many more times will someone like me be around to kind of tell some aspects of this person's life?
[18:45.080 --> 18:46.400]  That's what interests me.
[18:46.580 --> 18:49.980]  Like this is, this is the last time I saw him.
[18:50.920 --> 18:52.860]  I was dressed for the occasion.
[18:53.420 --> 18:55.560]  Um, he's taken care of himself.
[18:55.740 --> 18:57.960]  It's, we, we have a moment together, right?
[18:57.960 --> 19:01.200]  We have this last moment together.
[19:01.500 --> 19:05.360]  So when I learned he was gone, I was sad, but I didn't feel incomplete.
[19:05.360 --> 19:09.440]  I felt that I had been gifted with Ozzy's memory.
[19:10.220 --> 19:12.520]  Um, I'm in a book.
[19:13.580 --> 19:14.700]  I'm in a book.
[19:15.020 --> 19:16.560]  It's in a comic book.
[19:16.760 --> 19:18.260]  Comic book is about hackers.
[19:18.660 --> 19:19.520]  There's me.
[19:20.460 --> 19:21.220]  Nailed it.
[19:22.260 --> 19:25.920]  Um, and the person there is Ed Pisker.
[19:27.280 --> 19:42.620]  And Ed Pisker is a very interesting story in terms of, he was a comic book artist who had been trained as a comic book artist who turned around and started listening to, um, Off The Hook.
[19:43.080 --> 19:49.020]  And by Off The Hook, I mean, he listened to let the first one stand forward.
[19:49.020 --> 20:00.420]  Who can say this, listen to every episode, like from day one, all the way through while starting to draw a comic book and being inspired to do it.
[20:00.660 --> 20:06.720]  And so this WYSIWYG comic book came out and his work ethic on this was brutal.
[20:06.960 --> 20:16.400]  And it was so inspiring to me that for the short time, I decided to plunge tens of thousands of dollars into running a demo party in America.
[20:16.400 --> 20:18.000]  Do not do that.
[20:19.400 --> 20:20.640]  Do not do that.
[20:20.760 --> 20:25.620]  There's a demo party showing after my hackers got talent tomorrow.
[20:26.060 --> 20:26.280]  Great.
[20:26.660 --> 20:28.860]  Sit down and enjoy it, but don't run one.
[20:29.340 --> 20:34.060]  There's about two or three currently in the U.S. but I did one, but I wanted artists.
[20:34.200 --> 20:37.800]  I wanted creators and I brought in people and put them up.
[20:37.800 --> 20:40.040]  And one of them was this person, Ed Pisker.
[20:40.200 --> 20:41.440]  So I was so impressed with him.
[20:41.580 --> 20:44.080]  So he gave a really, to me, a good speech.
[20:44.300 --> 20:48.340]  He didn't like it, but he's only looking at it from, you know, again, later in his life.
[20:48.500 --> 20:56.560]  But the idea of a comic book artist showing up at a hacker convention, talk about his experience where he got a picture with Emmanuel, which was a big deal for him.
[20:56.840 --> 20:57.460]  Huge deal.
[20:57.940 --> 21:00.980]  Uh, and Bernie, and he was able to have this wonderful time.
[21:01.480 --> 21:05.840]  Um, anyway, um, make the effort to show up.
[21:05.960 --> 21:12.300]  And the reason I say make the effort to show up is because I got to see Ed last October.
[21:12.300 --> 21:23.160]  I last November in, uh, Japan, he was doing a, um, kind of a tour and doing some recordings cause he would do a show.
[21:23.960 --> 21:32.540]  And this is us up in a arcade in Akebara, hanging out, talking about AI.
[21:33.520 --> 21:36.180]  And, um, what, what did we cover?
[21:36.200 --> 21:42.120]  We covered some pretty, some sort of pretty sweet things about staying on top of things and AI art.
[21:42.120 --> 21:43.460]  And bringing stuff together.
[21:44.340 --> 21:47.720]  Words of possibility and, and wonder.
[21:48.140 --> 21:52.780]  And, and, and it was a pain in the ass for me to get to this.
[21:53.120 --> 21:56.200]  We were doing other things and we had to get down to Akebara.
[21:56.480 --> 22:00.900]  Then he and I are like texting each other, trying to find which arcade we're going to meet in front of.
[22:01.060 --> 22:02.180]  Meet in front of the arcade.
[22:02.300 --> 22:03.240]  Where are we going to hang out?
[22:03.440 --> 22:10.140]  This is a table at an arcade on the second floor where they set up a table because they had a coffee machine.
[22:10.140 --> 22:13.800]  And they got tired clearly of people spilling coffee on the arcade machines.
[22:13.880 --> 22:17.960]  So they made a little coffee nook to eat or drink your coffee at.
[22:18.120 --> 22:18.940]  So we're just hanging.
[22:19.260 --> 22:21.000]  As you can see, people are watching us.
[22:21.240 --> 22:21.760]  We don't care.
[22:22.560 --> 22:24.340]  Um, anyway, Ed's gone.
[22:25.000 --> 22:31.620]  Uh, Ed wrote a four or five page suicide note and put it on Facebook, which I also don't suggest doing, but he did it.
[22:31.620 --> 22:42.600]  What stuns me mostly in mentioning this guy is that most of it, the beginning of it is him talking about his thinking, but then a lot of it is just him making business arrangements.
[22:43.220 --> 22:46.380]  You know, please, you know, put the rights for it here.
[22:46.640 --> 22:48.220]  Mom and dad do this for me.
[22:48.500 --> 22:50.040]  Is this money in my wallet?
[22:50.200 --> 22:51.780]  If someone steals it, this is why.
[22:51.780 --> 22:55.900]  Like his work ethic extended beyond his own perceived end.
[22:56.180 --> 23:00.440]  And that's to me reminiscent of how he was through his whole life.
[23:00.620 --> 23:04.120]  And, um, I was so sad he was gone.
[23:04.400 --> 23:12.080]  And I'm happy that I texted him once just before he was gone to show support and just to say, Hey, you're my friend and so on.
[23:12.640 --> 23:15.040]  And you know, you can't save everyone.
[23:15.240 --> 23:18.500]  I'm happy to have saved a few people, but you can't save everyone.
[23:18.500 --> 23:20.340]  And it's not on you to save other people.
[23:20.520 --> 23:21.860]  It's nice of you to do it.
[23:22.120 --> 23:26.960]  It's nice of you to show up, but it's not a done deal, but I'll miss Ed very much.
[23:27.060 --> 23:30.000]  And Ed to me was as much a part of 2600 as anything else.
[23:30.800 --> 23:33.560]  Um, boy, Jason's getting dark, isn't he?
[23:33.940 --> 23:35.140]  So here's the thing.
[23:35.360 --> 23:41.200]  Um, when you do research into historical materials, what you often do is you go, where are they now?
[23:41.200 --> 23:43.780]  And they're not always here now.
[23:44.300 --> 23:49.460]  And so you become extremely comfortable with the finiteness of people's existences.
[23:49.720 --> 23:55.400]  And you also kind of buy into understanding how the story extends in every direction.
[23:55.680 --> 23:57.520]  Is there a lesson to be learned here?
[23:57.660 --> 23:58.820]  I think so.
[23:59.040 --> 24:05.760]  I mean, I'm able to see, especially in this digital age, often the breadcrumbs of a person's entire life, right?
[24:06.120 --> 24:10.160]  The pieces, the photographs, them getting signatures with, with Robert Heinlein.
[24:10.160 --> 24:13.760]  The idea of being able to like, see how these things were.
[24:13.880 --> 24:17.240]  And if I can spend a little time preserving it, great for me.
[24:17.500 --> 24:36.980]  Which is, um, you know, when I think of Kevin Mitnick, who we lost this year, uh, or last year, Kevin, Kevin got sick and died, but he had a family and he had a history and he had been sprinkled like, like delicious cinnamon sugar over the muffin of hacker history.
[24:36.980 --> 24:46.900]  Uh, always used as a, as a, as a, as a example, a threat, an inspiration, an enemy, uh, a victim, a hero.
[24:46.900 --> 25:02.140]  And he's probably honestly, one of the most human stories that sits with the hacker ethics and eco, you know, ecosystem, because here was somebody who went to prison and that brings you into the whole prison industrial complex.
[25:02.140 --> 25:08.720]  His methodologies were involve social engineering, which is a art in itself that gets involved.
[25:08.880 --> 25:11.640]  Like, you know, Kevin's stories were there.
[25:11.760 --> 25:17.080]  And I only got, I only got about 45 seconds with Kevin.
[25:17.080 --> 25:22.240]  And I only said one thing to him, which is, I hope you make a million dollars for every year they put you away.
[25:22.400 --> 25:23.060]  He said, thanks.
[25:23.220 --> 25:23.820]  And that was it.
[25:23.960 --> 25:24.780]  That's all I got.
[25:24.940 --> 25:25.860]  That's all he needs.
[25:26.340 --> 25:28.900]  Uh, I can't say I'll miss him.
[25:29.060 --> 25:41.780]  Like I've missed the others, but I will say, I will miss what watching his story of redemption and martyrdom and victim hood and villainy was playing out.
[25:41.780 --> 25:44.580]  Well, I would have liked to have seen it a little more beyond 59.
[25:45.780 --> 25:47.900]  Um, there's the, there you go.
[25:48.080 --> 25:49.060]  July, 2023.
[25:50.840 --> 25:52.080]  Now here's somebody.
[25:53.860 --> 25:59.020]  I will, I will buy a soda for whoever sees this and tells me who this is.
[26:01.120 --> 26:04.000]  Now, do I have to up it to a Jack Daniels?
[26:04.100 --> 26:06.520]  I would hate if somebody was like, I'm not going to do it for a soda.
[26:08.140 --> 26:08.780]  All right.
[26:08.900 --> 26:11.140]  Well, this guy's name is Sinitar.
[26:12.940 --> 26:13.460]  Sinitar.
[26:14.440 --> 26:16.960]  Um, uh, Sinitar.
[26:17.600 --> 26:19.720]  Uh, I think we're up to the number four dead guy.
[26:19.900 --> 26:20.000]  Good.
[26:20.140 --> 26:20.300]  All right.
[26:20.400 --> 26:20.500]  Good.
[26:22.620 --> 26:26.080]  That is the weirdest suicide tweet I have ever seen.
[26:28.280 --> 26:29.640]  That is something.
[26:32.220 --> 26:35.180]  I mean, that's a lot.
[26:36.760 --> 26:43.880]  And I do not know his full life in terms of what brought him to this inflection point.
[26:44.040 --> 26:47.460]  And we don't get to know about it for many people.
[26:48.260 --> 26:56.940]  Um, at the end of the note, he posted on Facebook, he literally did a shout out.
[26:57.560 --> 26:58.120]  Right?
[26:58.480 --> 27:00.080]  Like that's nuts.
[27:00.320 --> 27:00.600]  Right?
[27:00.700 --> 27:01.760]  Like, look, I'm sorry.
[27:01.960 --> 27:03.660]  I'm dead and I can't make more content.
[27:03.960 --> 27:04.840]  But see also.
[27:08.080 --> 27:09.240]  That's a lot.
[27:09.740 --> 27:15.340]  So again, artifacts are only half the story, but I don't know anything about him.
[27:15.340 --> 27:24.260]  Um, all I have is both the knowledge of these artifacts and the fact that people came to me and said, we have grabbed all of his streams in history.
[27:24.820 --> 27:27.520]  Will the Internet archive put them up?
[27:27.920 --> 27:35.160]  And, um, you know, like I said, if it's only the artifacts I get, that it's only the artifacts I get.
[27:35.600 --> 27:44.960]  Um, this person wrote me with this long story saying basically, you know, uh, I've tried to get these up to the archive.
[27:45.460 --> 27:46.620]  Here's all of his streams.
[27:46.820 --> 27:47.920]  What are we going to do with it?
[27:48.200 --> 27:49.780]  Uh, I can provide links.
[27:50.000 --> 27:54.200]  So I'm talking, as it says, they put up a torrent of all of his things.
[27:54.280 --> 27:57.380]  And then finally nobody was seeding it.
[27:58.140 --> 28:06.920]  And for people who don't know the whole torrent seed thing, think of it as people going, I am Spartacus until finally there's this one dude going like, I'm Spartacus.
[28:08.060 --> 28:14.700]  And if that seed disappears, this supposedly robust decentralized system collapses like a house of cards.
[28:15.900 --> 28:19.720]  So they were down to one seeder in France.
[28:21.000 --> 28:25.620]  Don't know why, but one seeder.
[28:25.820 --> 28:28.820]  And so I contacted him and said, yeah, no, I'll take it.
[28:28.880 --> 28:29.420]  How big is it?
[28:29.480 --> 28:31.000]  And he was like, well, it's six terabytes.
[28:31.940 --> 28:34.180]  I'm like, that's not, that's like a Tuesday.
[28:35.040 --> 28:35.480]  Fine.
[28:36.340 --> 28:42.680]  So that's how the archive has, you know, what turns out to be like a thousand hours of Sinatar.
[28:43.620 --> 28:50.180]  Like there's not a thousand hours of some major figures in history, you know, in the last 50 years.
[28:50.300 --> 28:54.040]  But there is because in each one of these, he's in the corner.
[28:54.480 --> 28:59.120]  In each one of these, Sinatar is talking to people about his life and what he's doing.
[28:59.120 --> 29:08.020]  And he is especially interesting for people because he's playing really obscure RPG games in which you become somebody else.
[29:08.380 --> 29:13.560]  And he is playing them for years and talking about what he's trying to see in them.
[29:13.560 --> 29:24.180]  Um, I don't know if somebody will eventually find additional stories in Sinatar, but my small part is to ensure his ability to tell his own story lives a little bit longer.
[29:25.260 --> 29:31.220]  Um, boy, that game really just evokes mystery and the world.
[29:31.400 --> 29:31.740]  Doesn't it?
[29:32.420 --> 29:33.200]  You in a wall.
[29:33.840 --> 29:35.900]  This level always takes me forever.
[29:36.960 --> 29:37.520]  Okay.
[29:38.020 --> 29:41.820]  So, and of course, at the bottom, Sinatar, how are you?
[29:42.280 --> 29:43.980]  Well, at least he'll be remembered now.
[29:44.960 --> 29:51.120]  Um, you know, things disappear and, you know, the nature of our worlds disappear.
[29:51.120 --> 29:56.920]  Here are some really, really obscure slang terms that we don't use anymore.
[29:57.320 --> 30:02.800]  Um, except for, of course, letter rip, which turns out to be about steam engine.
[30:03.720 --> 30:13.880]  Um, and I'm still trying to figure out this cat call, uh, which, which appears to be please mother open the door, which I don't know.
[30:14.000 --> 30:20.520]  I don't want to be walking past that or a bellering cake, which is a cake in which the plums are so far from each other that they have to beller.
[30:20.660 --> 30:21.900]  They have to yell at each other.
[30:23.420 --> 30:25.380]  These were relevant once.
[30:26.320 --> 30:28.660]  They live nowhere in our minds.
[30:28.660 --> 30:32.600]  We know about steam engines and we understand letter rip.
[30:32.740 --> 30:41.460]  And we've taken that one little piece, that one little part, by the way, this is a 1909 book of slang on the Internet archive.
[30:41.760 --> 30:43.700]  It is exquisite.
[30:43.700 --> 30:55.660]  It is written like a, like a ambassador in a dying world, making a small capsule of these unbelievably obscure London and American, uh, slang terms.
[30:55.840 --> 30:57.480]  It is public domain.
[30:57.740 --> 31:00.020]  And it is a treasure trove.
[31:00.240 --> 31:06.920]  If you want to see that we were always kind of weird with the memes, but that's like 150 years ago.
[31:07.040 --> 31:10.420]  Of course, you're not going to know about that, but how do you explain this one to somebody?
[31:12.540 --> 31:15.340]  Like, there's a lot going on there.
[31:18.350 --> 31:23.490]  You know, like in 2024, it'll still resonate sort of with you.
[31:23.810 --> 31:24.290]  Right.
[31:24.470 --> 31:29.290]  But I mean, that's a lot, that's a lot to pull together up to and including why is there a picture with it?
[31:30.590 --> 31:31.070]  Right.
[31:31.210 --> 31:33.750]  What's the picture of and what's going on here?
[31:33.870 --> 31:34.750]  And where is this from?
[31:34.750 --> 31:35.450]  And so on.
[31:35.450 --> 31:45.950]  So like, I'm just showing like, like this sort of low level brain energy has an unbelievably transient, uh, expiration date.
[31:46.250 --> 31:54.570]  You know, words and phrases and imagery will resonate in its own weird way, but you will not have that.
[31:54.730 --> 31:58.310]  So that's something to always keep in mind when we think about our lives and our legacy.
[31:59.050 --> 32:08.370]  Um, you see something like this, this is going back now, 2012, the vines are really starting to grow on what happened here.
[32:08.790 --> 32:17.810]  The vines are growing on Twitter, the vine, you know, and I can assure you for the, again, the youngers in the audience, 10,000 retweets.
[32:20.830 --> 32:24.810]  2012, that's like having an AK 47 during the civil war.
[32:25.030 --> 32:30.450]  You are, you are out of time in your power.
[32:31.650 --> 32:39.230]  Um, we're already starting to see some aspects start to gain randomly pieces of this artifice.
[32:39.230 --> 32:43.850]  This is a book that just came out this year called land party by Merritt Kaye.
[32:43.950 --> 32:58.490]  It is a book about land parties as told primarily through the rainy, actually on film photographs taken in terrible lighting with absolutely no computer augmentation of.
[32:59.430 --> 33:07.150]  People dragging their computers to a centralized space and looking at these things that used to be right.
[33:07.150 --> 33:21.470]  So, um, the intricacies of what makes a land party itself, at least in this way has one more brick in its memorial because we don't have land parties in the same way.
[33:21.670 --> 33:29.090]  We certainly don't have a case that people high up their entire computer and bring it everywhere.
[33:29.090 --> 33:38.870]  We now have specialized demo parties, dozen or two that this still happens at, but this was everywhere, right?
[33:39.090 --> 33:51.670]  And that receding of universal awareness that you were going to take a computer that was in no way designed for mobility and move it is, uh, rapidly disappearing.
[33:52.350 --> 33:57.970]  Um, I wanted to get a good shot right in there, really capture, really capture it.
[33:58.130 --> 33:59.930]  I, I went to a museum at one point.
[34:00.050 --> 34:03.390]  It had a sign and I thought it really, uh, captured everything.
[34:03.710 --> 34:09.970]  Um, when it was like, you know, these things, these are images of a previous time and these people had their own story.
[34:10.170 --> 34:11.390]  And I'm like, yeah, okay, fine.
[34:12.110 --> 34:15.490]  The sliding scale is the sliding scale of life.
[34:15.490 --> 34:17.790]  We have things that are right now important.
[34:18.030 --> 34:21.170]  Jokes will be told at this event and they will be very meaningful.
[34:21.170 --> 34:25.130]  And I encourage people to go a little bit outside of their comfort zone.
[34:25.470 --> 34:29.010]  A lot of stuff happened to make this happen.
[34:29.450 --> 34:30.870]  This is weird.
[34:31.410 --> 34:32.730]  This is weird.
[34:32.970 --> 34:33.610]  This is weird.
[34:33.890 --> 34:34.470]  This is weird.
[34:34.470 --> 34:45.650]  This is a weird, uh, hacking convention being held in a place called St. John's university and there's students around.
[34:45.690 --> 34:47.250]  We're going to corrupt six.
[34:48.270 --> 34:49.430]  I think six.
[34:49.630 --> 34:52.050]  That's my, that's my over under six, maybe eight.
[34:53.670 --> 34:55.590]  They're this, this is, this is it.
[34:55.750 --> 34:58.190]  This is the, uh, Alexander Hamilton moment.
[34:58.370 --> 35:03.050]  They are going to walk in and be like, and what is, what is, what is this?
[35:03.250 --> 35:10.050]  And by Tuesday, they're going to be like, ah, I don't, I've nothing to learn here.
[35:10.050 --> 35:13.050]  And we're going to hear about them and be amazing.
[35:14.630 --> 35:15.370]  They all know.
[35:16.690 --> 35:19.750]  And, but your own story exists in this as well.
[35:19.890 --> 35:25.110]  And so at this point, you know, we have this importance and then it slowly fades out.
[35:25.230 --> 35:28.310]  And I've been dealing with fading out for quite some time.
[35:28.490 --> 35:28.630]  Right.
[35:29.810 --> 35:31.450]  Um, I just thought that was great.
[35:32.030 --> 35:35.810]  I went to a gallery that had sense and that said, you know, for me, that's the.
[35:35.810 --> 35:39.610]  Uh, every hacker museum will have that.
[35:39.730 --> 35:39.930]  Okay.
[35:40.150 --> 35:55.270]  So I just like want to, you know, make clear again, making the effort to show up seems to me to be the difference between success and failure and building a legacy.
[35:55.430 --> 36:02.770]  There are times when you walk into a place and you don't know how your little stupid surface tablet is going to work with the AV system.
[36:02.950 --> 36:04.970]  And you meet a bunch of people who you don't know.
[36:05.250 --> 36:07.750]  You are addressed entirely inappropriately.
[36:08.430 --> 36:24.230]  And yet making that effort to get away from things, not a matter of like motivation and movement that tells you that these things are, um, you know, part of some easy, get rich, quick scheme or some self-actualization that will affect it.
[36:24.230 --> 36:25.310]  Is this how I die?
[36:33.670 --> 36:35.330]  I mean, it's a great way to go.
[36:36.970 --> 36:40.930]  A real Avengers, Captain America and the elevator feel.
[36:45.740 --> 37:01.740]  I, uh, now it's gonna, now I'm actually fascinated at this because they're coming in halfway, halfway point, which means the next one humdinger talk, clearly a humdinger talk because they're loading up into a hall H already.
[37:01.960 --> 37:08.760]  But one of the things that's interesting is now they have no idea what I'm talking about or where I'm going.
[37:09.040 --> 37:11.540]  And then either this lesson means something or it doesn't.
[37:11.620 --> 37:30.460]  But the point is that speaking as somebody who has come up from always being fascinated at the artifacts and the history of the world happening around me and slowly through the purposes of documentary interviews, conversations, recordings, and then later becoming this angel of death that swings into
[37:30.460 --> 37:40.580]  websites and entities that are dying and bringing up their material or making, you know, um, people ask me, how often are you offered something and have to deal with it?
[37:40.700 --> 37:44.320]  And I say, uh, six to seven times a month.
[37:44.740 --> 37:47.280]  And how often does somebody thank you for doing this work?
[37:47.380 --> 37:49.060]  And I'm like six or seven times a week.
[37:49.560 --> 37:59.580]  So there's absolutely, uh, a reward to me in terms of knowing that this touches lives and more importantly, that it touches lives without them having to meet me.
[38:00.120 --> 38:02.800]  I'm a very big fan of providing things that are there.
[38:03.000 --> 38:09.000]  When I went back to, um, digitizing this porn film, why was I digitizing this porn film?
[38:09.120 --> 38:17.420]  Well, because I had a stack of VHS tapes and I had a massive stack, something like several thousand, and I'm just finishing up them.
[38:17.600 --> 38:25.060]  Like I'm finishing up that stack, which means I have personally digitized something on the order of 3,500 to 4,000 VHS tapes.
[38:25.260 --> 38:41.320]  And each one of them runs for a certain period of time, represents a slice of life stored on a truly terrible medium, which to their credit, a younger generation is now thinking looks better.
[38:42.740 --> 39:11.740]  And watching them bathe in rapidly disintegrating SP recorded VHS tape, the lie of the 20th century has been truly inspiring that there are six hour mixes on YouTube of weather channel vaporwave tells me I had no idea what was happening.
[39:12.160 --> 39:28.440]  You know, if you've not been to the archive Internet archive is archive.org and buried among its stacks, people think of it as the way back machine, but it is also easily 150 petabytes of data.
[39:29.220 --> 39:31.920]  We pull in about 70 terabytes a day.
[39:32.140 --> 39:34.260]  So if it's not here today, come tomorrow.
[39:35.080 --> 39:52.960]  But watching it drain and fall into and get repurposed and reutilized where only letter rip lives and all the rest die, um, with points and stories of memories of people, that is what drives me.
[39:53.260 --> 39:57.660]  So the message of this is to not be obsessed.
[39:57.660 --> 40:06.060]  I'm obsessed with your legacy because I have now lived through a lot of endings and I've seen a lot of legacy.
[40:06.320 --> 40:24.300]  And I'll say that the legacy that you leave is the people you leave behind who remember you, not what you drew, not what you wrote, but the people and the lives you communicated with and touched and your erotic fan fiction.
[40:25.420 --> 40:26.720]  Thank you very much.
[40:34.730 --> 40:38.990]  so much, not one little one minute sign needed Greg.
[40:39.710 --> 40:40.250]  All right.
[40:40.330 --> 40:40.470]  Anyway.
[40:42.070 --> 40:42.950]  Okay.
[40:43.150 --> 40:46.970]  So So, I'm happy to answer questions.
[40:49.250 --> 40:52.210]  Archive.org, textfiles.com.
[40:52.430 --> 41:01.050]  There is a Hackers Got Talent event tomorrow night that I am hosting in a different outfit.
[41:01.110 --> 41:08.770]  I am on the panel for a robot sex movie tonight.
[41:09.750 --> 41:15.570]  I am going to be, at least at the beginning, of Hacking It Leaves, which I really recommend.
[41:15.570 --> 41:19.450]  It's the most 2600 hacking documentary you will ever see.
[41:19.450 --> 41:21.450]  It's on Saturday as well.
[41:23.010 --> 41:26.750]  You'll have to leave halfway through for Hackers Got Talent, or you just listen for the screams.
[41:27.910 --> 41:28.790]  Hi, what's your question?
[41:30.050 --> 41:30.530]  Hello?
[41:30.850 --> 41:38.530]  Oh, I just appreciate the work that you do so much, and especially the Internet Archive, because it just seems like insane.
[41:38.770 --> 41:43.590]  And on its face, it seems like it's a completely futile idea to back up the Internet.
[41:43.930 --> 41:46.950]  But my question is always, how do you do this?
[41:46.950 --> 41:55.270]  If you have 900 pounds of magazines and fan fiction stuff, I imagine there's a machine that scans them and then turns the page and scans them.
[41:55.270 --> 42:01.970]  There's like a giant crazy robot, or the things that plays back a VHS tape and digitizes it.
[42:02.070 --> 42:03.670]  They're like a bank of a hundred machines.
[42:03.870 --> 42:10.390]  It feels like a kind of crazy, futuristic lab where you can do all the digitizing.
[42:10.530 --> 42:19.090]  And then it's how many uncountable petabytes of data that then when all those old things that were stored on SCSI drives have to get backed up on new drives.
[42:19.090 --> 42:21.830]  The volume and the scale of it seems so huge.
[42:21.970 --> 42:27.130]  I'm just curious, could you explain a little bit about how you digitize that volume of stuff and how you back it up?
[42:27.190 --> 42:28.370]  It seems impossible to me.
[42:28.370 --> 42:28.790]  Okay.
[42:29.050 --> 42:33.070]  The question was, um, hey, Jason, you are okay.
[42:33.870 --> 42:38.590]  And, um, you are talking about stuff like the fan fiction and how do you digitize it all?
[42:38.710 --> 42:39.710]  And how do you store it all?
[42:39.810 --> 42:42.010]  And why haven't you died or gone bankrupt?
[42:42.230 --> 42:47.450]  The answer is, of course, that it is an ongoing process to digitize things.
[42:47.870 --> 42:51.750]  Um, you can digitize tons and tons of things and you can store things.
[42:51.750 --> 42:52.930]  It just takes money.
[42:53.670 --> 43:02.590]  And so one of the struggles over the years has been to always get people to donate towards digitization and so on.
[43:02.790 --> 43:07.910]  Uh, one of my projects, for example, is I'm going to digitize the full run of computer shopper.
[43:07.910 --> 43:12.210]  And that turns out to be terrible.
[43:12.590 --> 43:19.990]  And the reason it's terrible is because computer shopper, just like the universe wants to turn everything into a crab.
[43:20.470 --> 43:29.290]  Um, computer shop shoppers want to die and they are bound to resist scanning and they are huge.
[43:29.290 --> 43:38.890]  And there's hundreds of pages in many cases, up to a thousand pages, but I think that they are probably the vital spine of computer history of the eighties and nineties.
[43:39.070 --> 43:46.010]  So I'm digitizing them and it involves using a heat gun to undo them and then run them through.
[43:46.230 --> 43:52.770]  But to run them through, I need to use a wide mouth scanner because they're huge.
[43:52.770 --> 43:54.910]  And I reached out and said, can anyone help?
[43:54.990 --> 43:56.690]  And someone wrote me and said, how much is it?
[43:56.770 --> 43:57.790]  And I said, $3,500.
[43:58.370 --> 43:59.410]  And I got $3,500.
[44:00.350 --> 44:02.410]  So for that person, it was worth that money.
[44:02.630 --> 44:05.730]  I think so they didn't have to do it, but it was worth it to them.
[44:05.870 --> 44:11.470]  And those transactional relationships to history, is it worth a thousand dollars to you to see this come up?
[44:11.890 --> 44:21.910]  I think that if you tell the story of whatever you're doing, that's where, you know, you can help people, uh, figure out if they want to help this happen.
[44:21.910 --> 44:25.110]  You know, some things are happening ambiently and that's always nice.
[44:25.350 --> 44:33.450]  You know, people are digitizing old CD-ROMs or gamer discs or tracking down copies of old games or, you know, finding magazines or whatever.
[44:33.590 --> 44:35.150]  And they'll do it to some extent.
[44:35.230 --> 44:39.310]  But once it starts getting up to scale, you're basically talking about money.
[44:39.550 --> 44:47.030]  So, I mean, we're scanning, um, thousands and thousands of manuals from a manuals warehouse that we rescued a few years ago.
[44:47.030 --> 44:55.390]  And it's working out to about, um, I want to say about $3,200 a pallet, a pallet.
[44:55.510 --> 45:02.470]  You say, yeah, there's 14 pallets, but you know, we'll do as many as we can get people to pay for and maybe having them there.
[45:02.470 --> 45:05.250]  But that's the faith-based work.
[45:05.490 --> 45:12.090]  Like, only a certain mind will say, okay, I see the beginning of the job, where's the end?
[45:12.270 --> 45:17.650]  And I'm like, embrace me darkness, I know you are around the corner.
[45:17.790 --> 45:18.670]  So that's a different approach.
[45:18.790 --> 45:19.610]  What's your question?
[45:20.330 --> 45:29.750]  Uh, you may have just answered it, but how often, you know, percentage-wise, are you stopped dead in your tracks in an effort due to lack of money?
[45:30.870 --> 45:33.170]  How often am I stopped dead in my track?
[45:33.350 --> 45:36.530]  Right, like you just can't do a thing you want to do because you just didn't have the money.
[45:36.730 --> 45:37.830]  Oh, didn't have money?
[45:37.970 --> 45:38.330]  Money.
[45:38.330 --> 45:38.370]  Money.
[45:41.600 --> 45:42.120]  Okay.
[45:42.480 --> 45:55.620]  Well, anyone who knows me knows that nothing stops me, not per se, but I have been known to like run into a project that nobody wants to contribute.
[45:56.380 --> 45:57.640]  This is one of the tricks.
[45:59.120 --> 45:59.720]  All right.
[45:59.780 --> 46:00.200]  Well, fine.
[46:00.440 --> 46:00.620]  Whatever.
[46:00.860 --> 46:01.220]  I'm old.
[46:01.720 --> 46:06.120]  Um, if you want to do a project and nobody wants to volunteer, go in and do it terribly.
[46:08.500 --> 46:11.060]  And then people will be like, Jesus Christ.
[46:14.060 --> 46:16.440]  We've gotten a lot of great things out of that approach.
[46:16.900 --> 46:20.160]  Um, but like at the archive, we have storage.
[46:20.160 --> 46:23.460]  We have well over 400 shipping containers of material.
[46:23.600 --> 46:25.960]  I have two shipping containers of software.
[46:26.160 --> 46:34.140]  I don't know how much of that will be done before I'm done, but you work and you try to protect it for the next generation and work that way.
[46:34.140 --> 46:35.860]  I have every AOL CD.
[46:37.160 --> 46:37.800]  You're welcome.
[46:39.120 --> 46:39.840]  Oh, great.
[46:40.500 --> 46:41.040]  What is what?
[46:41.060 --> 46:41.300]  How many?
[46:41.400 --> 46:41.820]  How many minutes?
[46:42.060 --> 46:42.720]  Five minutes.
[46:42.960 --> 46:43.120]  All right.
[46:43.220 --> 46:43.480]  So we're fine.
[46:43.580 --> 46:43.880]  Go, go.
[46:43.960 --> 46:44.380]  Let's go.
[46:44.540 --> 46:44.780]  Let's go.
[46:45.020 --> 46:45.520]  Let's go lightning round then.
[46:45.620 --> 46:45.840]  Go ahead.
[46:51.190 --> 46:53.490]  For workshopping your personal archive.
[46:53.990 --> 46:56.710]  Very interested in Centaur's personal archive.
[46:57.090 --> 46:59.030]  I grew up in the live journal area.
[46:59.230 --> 47:00.350]  So that was good for me.
[47:00.550 --> 47:04.490]  But I'm interested right now in kind of creating a time capsule for myself.
[47:04.850 --> 47:05.030]  Okay.
[47:05.510 --> 47:11.710]  But what would you just, just in general for us, like, how do we start workshopping our own personal archive?
[47:11.710 --> 47:12.430]  Like, how do we do...
[47:12.430 --> 47:12.790]  Okay.
[47:13.210 --> 47:14.670]  How do you do personal digital archiving?
[47:14.790 --> 47:15.190]  Here you go.
[47:15.330 --> 47:15.850]  Very fast.
[47:16.250 --> 47:19.750]  Um, the only person who is the caretaker of your own stuff is you.
[47:19.950 --> 47:21.370]  There are three kinds of things you have.
[47:21.570 --> 47:22.590]  Stuff only you made.
[47:22.690 --> 47:23.390]  That is your thing.
[47:23.550 --> 47:24.450]  That is your detrius.
[47:24.670 --> 47:29.110]  Stuff you have kept in the, the hope of others and things you have kept in the hope of humanity.
[47:29.510 --> 47:30.490]  Hope of humanity.
[47:30.710 --> 47:33.770]  Things like you have, you know, Avengers assembled on MP4.
[47:33.990 --> 47:34.890]  Forget that crap.
[47:35.230 --> 47:35.650]  Throw it away.
[47:36.090 --> 47:37.170]  You, it'll be handled.
[47:37.330 --> 47:37.890]  It'll be handled.
[47:37.890 --> 47:39.770]  What will not be handled are your things.
[47:40.010 --> 47:51.090]  You writing a little note in notepad, drag it to a USB stick, drag it to three USB sticks, give it to one beloved friend, one relative who kind of likes you and keep one for yourself.
[47:51.290 --> 47:52.550]  That's the easiest start.
[47:52.730 --> 47:56.910]  And then later you will assess it or nobody will.
[47:57.510 --> 47:58.290]  Never know.
[47:58.630 --> 47:59.090]  Go ahead.
[48:00.370 --> 48:05.270]  Vise, or how do you approach artifacts that don't come with context or a story?
[48:05.270 --> 48:09.450]  Like it can be very difficult when you see, okay, here's thousands of manuals.
[48:09.590 --> 48:12.370]  How do I deal with contextless artifacts?
[48:12.850 --> 48:15.230]  I digitize them, put them up and go, ta-da!
[48:15.890 --> 48:19.730]  And people provide the context for them or for me.
[48:20.070 --> 48:21.810]  So that's how I do it.
[48:21.910 --> 48:30.510]  But I'm a specific discipline approach to that, which is not universally beloved in the archivist community.
[48:31.250 --> 48:35.430]  And there's a lot of people who write subtweets about me that I archive.
[48:36.850 --> 48:37.470]  Go ahead.
[48:39.310 --> 48:44.730]  Archive.org has saved my ass like countless of times, but you didn't know about it because I'm just now telling you.
[48:45.110 --> 48:53.110]  Um, what is the most highest profile like instance where, you know, it's saved like maybe like a government or something.
[48:53.110 --> 48:57.070]  Um, but where you actually did know about it.
[48:57.890 --> 49:01.010]  The highest profile thing?
[49:01.530 --> 49:10.250]  Well, I mean, so it's, there's so many things where I'll, I'll find like a dead end on the Internet, but then archive.org has it.
[49:10.250 --> 49:14.110]  The most recent, but it like, it was desperate for me to find it.
[49:14.410 --> 49:16.090]  The, my own little personal thing.
[49:16.190 --> 49:24.690]  The Internet archive is the last, uh, surviving on the Internet archive of the original photo that the back rooms came from.
[49:25.630 --> 49:28.350]  So the back rooms were like ridiculous.
[49:28.350 --> 49:31.330]  It was a photo and somebody put lore around it and all went insane.
[49:31.710 --> 49:36.450]  And it turned out we had the remaining website in context instead of just the photo.
[49:37.490 --> 49:39.450]  Um, and so I wrote about that.
[49:39.610 --> 49:42.270]  That was like profile in terms of like watching it go.
[49:42.970 --> 49:51.970]  Um, uh, I will tell you that unfortunately it is countless how many times the Internet archive has turned out to be the one place that had the remaining thing.
[49:52.650 --> 49:58.770]  Uh, that leads to a lot of bizarre conspiracy theories and a lot of whatever that I just don't have time for.
[49:59.250 --> 50:04.310]  The people at the archive are working very diligently to keep everything up.
[50:04.550 --> 50:05.630]  We're not in it.
[50:05.630 --> 50:10.050]  We're not being influenced by them, whoever them are.
[50:10.470 --> 50:23.430]  Like it was because a guy made hunt because a guy in 1996 sold his company to Amazon for $220 million of Amazon stock in 1996.
[50:24.930 --> 50:27.570]  And went, now I get to be a librarian.
[50:29.210 --> 50:32.670]  So a billionaire decided not to be a shitheel.
[50:33.110 --> 50:33.530]  Enjoy.
[50:33.730 --> 50:34.530]  It only happened once.
[50:34.670 --> 50:34.870]  Anyway.
[50:36.730 --> 50:43.830]  Um, I wanted to ask, uh, we do protest and we have a lot of, uh, live video that we recorded on Facebook and other stuff like that.
[50:43.830 --> 50:45.230]  And then we would want to preserve it.
[50:45.310 --> 50:47.790]  Like how could we put it to be an archive if it's relevant?
[50:48.250 --> 50:48.610]  Okay.
[50:48.710 --> 50:52.790]  We'll make that the last question because then Greg won't find me.
[50:54.410 --> 50:59.030]  Put that in documentation for your game, by the way, you'll want to do this or Greg will find you.
[50:59.910 --> 51:04.270]  Um, so Jason at text files.com.
[51:04.390 --> 51:05.650]  Jay Scott at archive.org.
[51:05.670 --> 51:09.590]  If you want to do it through the full professional front door, it's info at archive.org.
[51:09.850 --> 51:11.570]  Um, we have a Slack channel.
[51:11.570 --> 51:13.170]  We watched the donations go by.
[51:13.330 --> 51:15.210]  We talk about people about what they want to do.
[51:15.450 --> 51:20.710]  Uh, we have worked sometimes with people where they will write to me again.
[51:21.110 --> 51:27.950]  I'm getting six or seven of these a month where somebody will say, look, I'm sitting on this and here are my conditions.
[51:28.130 --> 51:29.310]  Some of them don't want to donate.
[51:29.470 --> 51:31.630]  Some of them want us to do it and send it back.
[51:31.810 --> 51:46.370]  Some of us, you know, have, they all have different reasonings and we happily work with all of them, help them where we are and realize that sometimes it's not going to happen, you know, because a person will be like, well, I want you to do this, but then this has to happen.
[51:46.490 --> 51:53.650]  It's like, but, um, I, there are no secrets of archiving.
[51:54.390 --> 52:06.730]  There's no, there's only experience, um, uh, adventure and a constant pit of rage in your stomach.
[52:06.730 --> 52:23.770]  But other than that, it's pretty much a case of being in treating all history with respect, because the next generations will not have your luxury of being able to choose what gets saved.
[52:24.030 --> 52:31.150]  All they'll have is what remained and remaining, believe it or not, is a, not a passive act.
[52:31.590 --> 52:34.790]  It takes effort to not change.
[52:35.690 --> 52:38.150]  Although some people seem to do a good job, don't they?
[52:38.670 --> 52:39.930]  Um, that's, you know.
[52:40.290 --> 52:40.510]  Perfect.
[52:40.810 --> 52:40.870]  And...
[52:40.870 --> 52:41.810]  Oh, there's a follow up.
[52:42.070 --> 52:48.430]  Uh, actually, no, it was because you said that there will be the talent, the talent thing happening tomorrow.
[52:48.930 --> 52:52.570]  Like, how, how do we need to sign up before or we can do it on spot?
[52:52.830 --> 52:54.170]  And also, can we do five juggling?
[52:54.410 --> 52:54.510]  No.
[52:54.510 --> 53:00.210]  Ladies and gentlemen of all pronouns, the Internet is no place to live.
[53:00.350 --> 53:04.290]  Instead, come to Hackers Got Talent tomorrow night at nine o'clock.
[53:04.430 --> 53:05.830]  Please register at registration.
[53:06.070 --> 53:09.750]  Your talent need not be enjoyable, pleasant, or good.
[53:09.750 --> 53:12.990]  We don't judge, except for when we do.
[53:13.250 --> 53:14.130]  You can lose.
[53:14.130 --> 53:16.110]  You can be bad at what you do.
[53:16.270 --> 53:22.410]  But, in the meantime, this unhinged MC will be dressed in something different.
[53:22.410 --> 53:27.370]  And really, honestly, in a world that is bland and without interest or fun for many.
[53:27.570 --> 53:35.570]  Isn't it nice to know that within 24 hours, some awesome, coifered person will tell you you're singing in a really weird fashion?
[53:35.570 --> 53:39.070]  It's a lot of love, a lot of strangeness, and a lot of joy.
[53:39.930 --> 53:42.750]  And, uh, well, somebody won't forget it.
[53:43.310 --> 53:44.330]  That's the ad for that.
[53:44.570 --> 53:44.890]  All right.