[00:00.720 --> 00:01.960]  Thank you.
[00:03.020 --> 00:04.660]  My name is Mary Robison.
[00:05.240 --> 00:07.220]  I'm an anthropologist.
[00:08.260 --> 00:12.260]  And I'm coming out for the very first time in public.
[00:12.260 --> 00:13.980]  I am on the autism spectrum.
[00:14.800 --> 00:19.360]  My friends and family have been telling me this for years, but I fought it tooth and nail.
[00:19.980 --> 00:21.980]  But I really have to admit it.
[00:22.840 --> 00:36.840]  I have many of the qualifying characteristics, some of which I referred to in, you know, the write-up about this talk in the program book.
[00:36.960 --> 00:39.520]  So you can take a look at that if you haven't already.
[00:40.400 --> 00:47.560]  And I would like you to take a look at it and make some realistic assessments of yourself.
[00:48.260 --> 00:56.180]  Because it is my hypothesis that as many as 95% of the people at HOPE are on the autism spectrum.
[01:00.000 --> 01:03.540]  And so if you think you're one of us, well, congratulations.
[01:04.660 --> 01:06.760]  We're the majority here.
[01:08.300 --> 01:15.220]  We're the ones that the world thinks may be dangerous, certainly suspect.
[01:16.500 --> 01:21.620]  It's nice to be normal amongst our own peers.
[01:24.340 --> 01:30.140]  So there's a difference between formal diagnosis and informal diagnosis.
[01:30.460 --> 01:35.160]  And so, you know, your own assessment of yourself is obviously informal diagnosis.
[01:35.160 --> 01:44.580]  The diagnostic criteria are currently in flux with the DSM-5 about to come out.
[01:46.360 --> 01:52.360]  People at HOPE are probably more likely to have been described as having Asperger's syndrome.
[01:52.360 --> 01:59.780]  Well, in the DSM-5, there really isn't a separate category of Asperger's syndrome anymore.
[01:59.780 --> 02:02.820]  We're all autism spectrum.
[02:04.240 --> 02:18.780]  It's a difference that kind of makes no difference because the latest studies, which were actually out as of yesterday, suggest that the DSM-5 is going to diagnose more people than the DSM-4 did.
[02:18.940 --> 02:20.300]  And that's a good thing.
[02:22.220 --> 02:22.760]  Okay.
[02:22.940 --> 02:27.880]  So some of the things that you might have, and, you know, I'll tell you which ones I have.
[02:27.880 --> 02:29.820]  I am face-blind.
[02:30.340 --> 02:38.080]  That is, you know, I've got friends in the front row, and they have to tell me who they are when they come up to me every single time.
[02:39.120 --> 02:40.860]  Because I don't recognize them.
[02:41.160 --> 02:46.180]  Heck, the kid on the end is my son, and I can't tell you what he looks like.
[02:50.070 --> 02:56.550]  There are degrees of face-blindness, and I'm not too bad, because when I actually see him, I recognize him.
[02:56.730 --> 03:00.350]  I just can't tell you what he looks like when I'm not looking at him.
[03:02.110 --> 03:05.770]  People on the spectrum have issues with social cues.
[03:06.450 --> 03:06.890]  Oh, dear.
[03:08.790 --> 03:09.730]  Body language.
[03:10.190 --> 03:13.470]  Do you have problems reading other people's body language?
[03:15.650 --> 03:17.550]  I don't think anyone here has that.
[03:17.890 --> 03:18.810]  No, no, no, no.
[03:19.270 --> 03:21.330]  Or facial expressions.
[03:21.330 --> 03:24.050]  Oh, my God, what do facial expressions mean?
[03:25.630 --> 03:26.930]  Sensory differences.
[03:26.930 --> 03:37.190]  I have fairly acute hearing, which is why being in rooms like this kind of drives me nuts, because the echoes are driving me wild.
[03:38.230 --> 03:40.010]  I have perfect pitch.
[03:40.010 --> 03:44.090]  I can't stand going to concerts, because no one sings on key.
[03:46.730 --> 03:50.370]  I used to hear burglar alarms and motion detectors.
[03:50.550 --> 03:51.330]  I don't anymore.
[03:51.590 --> 03:55.930]  One of the advantages of getting older is that you lose some of that high frequencies.
[03:56.610 --> 03:58.630]  And, oh, God, I'm glad it's gone.
[04:00.750 --> 04:04.910]  I couldn't go into my stop and shop, because I could hear their motion detectors.
[04:05.170 --> 04:07.730]  And it felt like my eyeballs were going to pop out of my head.
[04:11.390 --> 04:12.270]  Monotone voice.
[04:12.690 --> 04:16.430]  Well, I don't think I do that quite as much as some people.
[04:16.430 --> 04:27.650]  But many people on the spectrum have a monotone voice or don't really express, you know, use facial expressions appropriately.
[04:28.110 --> 04:31.650]  I mean, when something bad happens, do you get a big-ass grin?
[04:33.110 --> 04:34.970]  I know I do sometimes.
[04:37.830 --> 04:39.050]  Eye contact.
[04:39.750 --> 04:45.570]  Do you either never look people in the eye or look at them in the eye so much that they get scared?
[04:48.640 --> 04:55.760]  So, if you feel like these things describe you, well, welcome.
[04:57.720 --> 05:07.680]  There's a whole debate about whether being on the spectrum is a disability or just a difference.
[05:08.260 --> 05:11.340]  And I tend to lean towards it's a difference.
[05:11.360 --> 05:13.820]  And it's a difference that is often an advantage.
[05:15.100 --> 05:24.940]  I've sat down and worked for, you know, three weeks with very little sleep in order to finish a project and been really happy that I was doing it the entire time.
[05:25.400 --> 05:26.520]  That's an advantage.
[05:26.520 --> 05:29.620]  I can get crap done really fast.
[05:35.690 --> 05:41.410]  People on the spectrum appear to have a very significant difference in the wiring of their brains.
[05:41.410 --> 05:48.230]  I'm going to let other people talk about that because I feel like I've been talking, getting close to talking enough at this point.
[05:49.010 --> 05:51.310]  But I just want to throw some things out there.
[05:51.530 --> 05:55.230]  Some of the other things that go along with being on the spectrum, though, are things like depression.
[05:55.870 --> 06:01.730]  Because if you've been a weirdo your entire life, damn it, you should be depressed at times.
[06:05.910 --> 06:10.210]  So, I'm kind of setting up for you what it means to be on the spectrum.
[06:10.210 --> 06:15.270]  My personal experience has been varied.
[06:15.710 --> 06:27.210]  I'm going to let my son talk about why the ATF came and raided my house because of his autistic interests.
[06:31.210 --> 06:33.650]  But Alex is going to talk first.
[06:35.950 --> 06:36.550]  Okay.
[06:37.710 --> 06:38.310]  Hi.
[06:38.530 --> 06:39.070]  I'm Alex.
[06:40.510 --> 06:50.910]  I'd like to get a raise of hands from anyone in this room of people who have a specific obsessive interest about maybe something technical.
[06:52.130 --> 06:57.190]  Maybe have issues, you know, communicating with people might seem...
[06:57.190 --> 06:57.730]  Okay.
[06:57.870 --> 06:59.350]  That seems like a really low number.
[06:59.510 --> 06:59.930]  Come on, guys.
[07:00.490 --> 07:00.930]  Let's listen.
[07:01.030 --> 07:01.250]  All right.
[07:01.330 --> 07:01.750]  There we go.
[07:02.390 --> 07:05.250]  Some people are, like, just hesitantly raising their hand.
[07:06.650 --> 07:09.230]  Hopefully, soon people will feel more comfortable doing that.
[07:09.310 --> 07:11.090]  Because what Mary said is right.
[07:11.170 --> 07:13.810]  It's not a bad thing.
[07:13.810 --> 07:14.850]  There's no...
[07:14.850 --> 07:17.810]  I don't think there should be a value judgment when you hear about it.
[07:17.910 --> 07:20.810]  Because it does just describe a very specific subset of people.
[07:21.210 --> 07:22.710]  And I am one of those people.
[07:23.090 --> 07:26.150]  And I actually learned about this when I was nine.
[07:26.390 --> 07:36.350]  And I was one of those kids who would obsessively, like, look through every single file that my parents had, you know, in their drawers and, like, just read stuff and get too much information.
[07:36.710 --> 07:38.010]  And I was reading one day.
[07:38.110 --> 07:40.070]  And it said, oh, he has Asperger's syndrome.
[07:40.190 --> 07:41.330]  And I went up to my mom.
[07:41.430 --> 07:42.370]  I was like, what's Asperger's syndrome?
[07:42.470 --> 07:44.650]  She's like, uh...
[07:45.210 --> 07:45.490]  Uh...
[07:45.490 --> 07:46.930]  And she's like, well, you have it.
[07:47.010 --> 07:47.930]  And I'm like, well, what the hell?
[07:48.050 --> 07:48.970]  Why wouldn't you tell me?
[07:49.390 --> 07:49.670]  I...
[07:49.670 --> 07:50.730]  This is ridiculous.
[07:52.050 --> 07:52.330]  Um...
[07:52.330 --> 07:52.990]  And then I was like...
[07:52.990 --> 07:54.230]  And then I was like, and I don't have it.
[07:54.290 --> 07:54.530]  That's...
[07:54.530 --> 07:55.170]  That's stupid.
[07:55.350 --> 07:56.590]  I don't have anything wrong with me.
[07:56.750 --> 07:58.110]  And I didn't have anything wrong with me.
[07:58.170 --> 08:01.010]  But at the time, hearing, like, the word disorder, you assume that there is.
[08:01.430 --> 08:04.650]  And when I was a teenager, there was no...
[08:04.650 --> 08:06.310]  I didn't know anyone with autism.
[08:06.530 --> 08:08.050]  I didn't know anyone else who has it.
[08:08.050 --> 08:10.510]  Now it seems like everyone I meet, half of them have it.
[08:10.630 --> 08:11.570]  You know, I just notice it.
[08:11.670 --> 08:13.730]  I guess maybe I'm better at picking it up than I used to be.
[08:13.850 --> 08:17.290]  But what I did is I went online to try to find friends.
[08:19.110 --> 08:35.410]  And oddly enough, you would think that the Internet would be filled with, you know, sites for Asperger's and autism because most of the people who are spending every single waking minute of their life on the Internet generally aren't going out socially in one-on-one situations talking to people in face,
[08:35.590 --> 08:37.670]  in person.
[08:38.230 --> 08:40.810]  I guess that makes kind of a lot of sense.
[08:41.090 --> 08:47.550]  Anyway, so what I did is I decided to start a website for people with autism, to start a place where people, I could meet other people like myself.
[08:48.670 --> 08:49.410]  And I did.
[08:50.290 --> 08:58.950]  I had a friend that I had met on a smaller little website for autism and we decided that we would make it together and so we developed it and we launched it.
[08:59.050 --> 09:02.590]  And within a few days, there was, you know, a few hundred people.
[09:02.770 --> 09:07.290]  So clearly there was, and by the way, the website is called wrongclanet.net if you want to check it out.
[09:07.950 --> 09:12.430]  But when we started it, there was a few hundred people that joined in the first day.
[09:12.790 --> 09:15.350]  And apparently there was a buzz at Carnegie Mellon.
[09:15.430 --> 09:16.270]  That's what my friend said.
[09:16.290 --> 09:16.690]  He went there.
[09:16.830 --> 09:19.190]  He's like, oh yeah, there's a lot of buzz about your website at Carnegie Mellon.
[09:19.230 --> 09:19.950]  Everyone was signing up.
[09:20.050 --> 09:20.630]  I was like, oh, okay.
[09:20.730 --> 09:22.430]  That makes, kind of makes sense, I guess.
[09:23.750 --> 09:30.650]  But anyway, what happened is now we have more than 70,000 members and we get millions of hits.
[09:31.230 --> 09:35.850]  So, a million hits per day is what my web hosting company president said.
[09:35.850 --> 09:36.770]  He's right there actually.
[09:39.250 --> 09:42.830]  Anyway, what can you do on there?
[09:43.130 --> 09:48.630]  Basically, a lot of times, people like us, we have issues with social skills.
[09:49.090 --> 09:50.590]  And a lot of people do.
[09:50.690 --> 09:52.490]  A lot of geeks have trouble fitting in.
[09:52.610 --> 09:54.530]  We can't find friends.
[09:54.730 --> 09:58.290]  A lot of times, the only friends we do have are the ones who share our special interests.
[09:58.510 --> 10:02.230]  Well, this is a great way to like all connect with people who have similar interests.
[10:02.570 --> 10:05.850]  When I was younger, I had weird obsessive interests.
[10:06.030 --> 10:10.310]  I would write Perl and write code and edit Wikipedia.
[10:10.610 --> 10:12.650]  I've edited more than 10,000 Wikipedia articles.
[10:12.790 --> 10:14.710]  And yet, I still didn't do any homework in school.
[10:14.830 --> 10:16.750]  So, I don't know what was going on there.
[10:19.030 --> 10:20.590]  But that's kind of just what happens.
[10:20.810 --> 10:26.410]  You end up doing something that you're obsessively interested in and everything else gets taken away.
[10:26.550 --> 10:29.110]  And the thing about that is that's a good thing, in a way.
[10:29.230 --> 10:34.730]  I mean, how many of you guys have spent days and days working on a project and people want you to come out and you don't?
[10:34.810 --> 10:35.490]  You don't go out.
[10:35.590 --> 10:36.950]  You don't do anything.
[10:36.990 --> 10:38.450]  You're just working on your thing.
[10:38.570 --> 10:39.450]  Someone raised their hand.
[10:40.190 --> 10:41.110]  All right, there we go.
[10:41.170 --> 10:41.990]  That's a lot of people.
[10:42.510 --> 10:45.230]  And that is what makes a geek a geek, I think.
[10:45.590 --> 10:53.130]  Having that interest, that drive that separates you from other people who just sort of go about their way and just sort of float by in life.
[10:53.210 --> 10:55.230]  They don't really focus on one thing.
[10:55.350 --> 10:58.050]  And there's something to be said about both types of personalities.
[10:58.310 --> 10:59.290]  They're both necessary.
[10:59.290 --> 11:01.410]  But I personally prefer the one that I have.
[11:01.530 --> 11:02.910]  And I'm sure you guys do too.
[11:03.850 --> 11:09.610]  And I just wanted to also add that there are a lot of geeks that are on the spectrum and sort of spoken about it.
[11:10.350 --> 11:12.550]  My friend, Bram Cohen, he created BitTorrent.
[11:12.730 --> 11:18.710]  He is... Actually, what's funny is that I interviewed him the first time I interviewed him on IRC or something.
[11:18.870 --> 11:22.430]  And it got posted to Slashdot or my interview with him.
[11:22.870 --> 11:25.890]  And thousands and thousands of people signed up for the site after that.
[11:26.530 --> 11:32.730]  And that just goes to show that there's a big overlap in the community of geeks and people on the spectrum.
[11:33.710 --> 11:37.990]  What's funny is that we were also mentioned in the New York Times in a front page article on our site.
[11:38.630 --> 11:44.690]  And less people signed up from that because the general public reads the New York Times and geeks read Slashdot.
[11:44.830 --> 11:45.270]  So that's...
[11:45.270 --> 11:47.430]  And I bet you more people read the article in the New York Times.
[11:47.690 --> 11:48.690]  So that just goes to show.
[11:49.030 --> 11:52.950]  Anyway, I don't know... Is my time up?
[11:53.030 --> 11:53.590]  Can we move on?
[11:54.010 --> 11:55.670]  How much did I take too long?
[11:55.750 --> 11:59.330]  Oh, and also Craig from Craigslist is on the autism spectrum as well.
[11:59.690 --> 12:02.190]  As some other people that I'm not going to name because...
[12:02.190 --> 12:02.530]  Oh, I have a list.
[12:02.690 --> 12:03.390]  Oh, you have a list?
[12:03.470 --> 12:04.090]  You wrote a little list?
[12:04.090 --> 12:04.350]  Yeah.
[12:04.350 --> 12:04.570]  Cool.
[12:04.790 --> 12:05.490]  Let's hear that.
[12:05.690 --> 12:06.030]  Okay.
[12:06.190 --> 12:07.730]  So my name is Kirsten.
[12:08.210 --> 12:10.870]  And I've been kind of taking notes of things I want to fill in.
[12:11.030 --> 12:15.910]  So first, I just want to say a list of famous people you've probably heard of who are on the autism spectrum or were.
[12:16.410 --> 12:18.610]  Nikola Tesla, who is obsessed with pigeons.
[12:19.650 --> 12:21.910]  Einstein, Craig from Craigslist, as Alex said.
[12:21.990 --> 12:24.450]  Mark Zuckerberg, though we may or may not like him.
[12:24.950 --> 12:30.070]  And Bill Gates, who is seen on YouTube videos rocking back and forth at cafes.
[12:31.970 --> 12:40.910]  So some other signs of, signs, I don't know, traits of autism that Mary discussed that I wanted to kind of further talk about are...
[12:41.630 --> 12:42.890]  Wait, you forgot Jesus.
[12:43.550 --> 12:43.650]  Shh.
[12:43.650 --> 12:44.230]  Don't say Jesus.
[12:44.510 --> 12:44.890]  Shh.
[12:45.090 --> 12:50.050]  That, anyway, that... Because a lot of these DSM traits are things that I...
[12:50.050 --> 12:56.550]  I wasn't diagnosed until I was 19 because I sought out my own diagnosis because I finally decided, like, okay, it must be this.
[12:56.650 --> 12:57.470]  It can't be something else.
[12:57.490 --> 12:58.270]  I'm not broken.
[12:58.470 --> 12:59.990]  There is a reason for all these things I do.
[13:00.310 --> 13:07.810]  Because the DSM lists things that you might not realize you have because your own experience is your own... is your only experience.
[13:08.130 --> 13:15.430]  And so, for example, sensory differences, like Mary was talking about sound sensitivity, that you might not realize you have sensory differences.
[13:16.030 --> 13:26.030]  The, um, Stephen Shore, a relatively well-known autism speaker, talks about the classic, uh, autism sign is wearing a hat wherever you go to protect against the overhead lights.
[13:26.910 --> 13:31.090]  And, uh, that I didn't notice I had sensory differences.
[13:31.430 --> 13:38.890]  All I knew is that when my friends put on music and turned up the stereo right away, it scared the crap out of me and they made fun of me because they didn't realize why I was so scared.
[13:39.350 --> 13:43.250]  And that I have to wear sunglasses to drive at night because the lights are so bright.
[13:43.390 --> 13:47.130]  And right here I have halos this big around all these lights so I can't see most of the audience.
[13:47.910 --> 13:53.490]  But, uh, also stimming, which is short for self-stimulation, which is something everybody does.
[13:53.710 --> 13:55.410]  Neurotypicals do it if you've ever gone like this.
[13:55.410 --> 13:55.450]  It's not naughty.
[13:56.690 --> 14:04.050]  Yes, it's just normal if you've gone like this or twirled your hair or whatever, but that specifically hand flapping and rocking back and forth.
[14:04.070 --> 14:12.210]  And when I was in elementary school, I did this all the time and and was made fun of it and didn't realize why until I did it in the mirror once and decided to stop doing it in public.
[14:12.730 --> 14:25.350]  But, uh, that a lot of these things we don't notice about ourselves, I didn't realize I had a relatively monotone voice until an ex-boyfriend of mine pointed out, like, why don't you use inflection?
[14:25.470 --> 14:26.490]  You should use inflection.
[14:26.630 --> 14:28.170]  He taught me to talk like this.
[14:28.290 --> 14:32.990]  And I should smile while I talk so that people know that I like them so I don't look really angry all the time.
[14:33.210 --> 14:38.290]  And I, and also a lot of a common thing with autism is not being able to pay attention to your face.
[14:38.370 --> 14:42.890]  How often have you gone like this in public and not realized you were sticking this face forever?
[14:43.130 --> 14:46.350]  And then you relax and your face hurts and, oh, God, how long have I been doing that?
[14:46.490 --> 14:50.070]  And these these little things you don't realize because you can't see yourself.
[14:50.750 --> 14:57.530]  But that, I suppose, another thing that I didn't ever realize I didn't make eye contact because I didn't make eye contact.
[14:57.550 --> 15:00.650]  So I didn't notice other people were trying to make eye contact with me.
[15:00.790 --> 15:04.570]  And so I've I've now that I know this I've been able to differentiate.
[15:04.590 --> 15:07.490]  It's really interesting reading books by neurotypical authors.
[15:07.850 --> 15:16.430]  I've come across authors who To say, a character who doesn't look them in the eye, it's so frustrating when people don't look you in the eye because you can't tell what they're thinking.
[15:16.890 --> 15:20.230]  And, oh, I wish she would look me in the eye so I knew what she was thinking.
[15:20.530 --> 15:25.750]  And have you ever read, oh, I saw that expression of lust in his eyes and things like that.
[15:25.850 --> 15:26.830]  What does that even mean?
[15:26.970 --> 15:29.610]  How do you know what someone is thinking by looking at their eyes?
[15:29.650 --> 15:32.390]  How do you read minds, neurotypicals or mind readers, it seems.
[15:33.510 --> 15:38.430]  But, and all these little things that a lot of us don't even notice until someone else tells us.
[15:38.430 --> 15:42.530]  Like, for example, my favorite is that when someone says, hi, how are you?
[15:42.670 --> 15:43.470]  You don't say, good.
[15:43.630 --> 15:44.790]  They're not asking you a question.
[15:44.950 --> 15:46.190]  You say, good, how are you?
[15:46.530 --> 15:49.170]  If you don't ask them how they are back, it's rude, apparently.
[15:49.630 --> 16:00.530]  But, so, and also, if you're not sure about the DSM criteria, I recommend Wrong Planet, not only for the social skills aspect, but because a lot of the forums are filled with people saying, I do this.
[16:00.650 --> 16:01.790]  Is this autistic?
[16:01.990 --> 16:02.630]  Is this normal?
[16:02.970 --> 16:05.650]  And people talk about all the different traits that they share.
[16:05.650 --> 16:10.290]  Because you might be totally sound sensitive, or you might not even notice sounds.
[16:10.410 --> 16:11.750]  People have to call your name three times.
[16:12.010 --> 16:14.890]  And people tend to be on different sides of extremes.
[16:15.270 --> 16:20.490]  You might love spinning around until you're sick, or you might get sick immediately as soon as you sit on a swing.
[16:20.750 --> 16:23.370]  But everybody's different, even autistics.
[16:23.370 --> 16:25.010]  We're not all a monolithic group.
[16:25.590 --> 16:27.210]  And I don't know how long I've been talking.
[16:27.370 --> 16:27.750]  Do you want to go?
[16:30.010 --> 16:34.010]  So, I'm Jack, and as my mother said...
[16:35.230 --> 16:35.710]  Okay.
[16:38.190 --> 16:41.770]  So, I had an obsessive interest that got me in trouble.
[16:42.190 --> 16:47.530]  And this is something that probably doesn't... my interest doesn't quite apply to you guys quite so much.
[16:47.790 --> 16:56.210]  But, you know, there are plenty of examples of, you know, people who are interested in networking or programming or whatever, and they wind up getting in legal trouble, not really intentionally.
[16:56.910 --> 16:59.590]  And, in my case, I was really interested in chemistry.
[16:59.770 --> 17:10.670]  And I would spend, you know, every hour of every day, when I wasn't in school, and sometimes when I was in school, reading on forums, teaching myself about the chemistry of, specifically, explosives.
[17:14.090 --> 17:22.450]  And I taught myself all this, you know, just off these forums, and it sort of bit me in the ass.
[17:24.050 --> 17:28.310]  But I didn't really think that it was confusing why I was doing it.
[17:28.470 --> 17:30.690]  That, you know, I was doing all this because I was interested in it.
[17:30.750 --> 17:31.870]  It was cool, you know.
[17:32.070 --> 17:33.610]  That there was never any...
[17:33.610 --> 17:37.350]  The social implications of what I was doing didn't really occur to me.
[17:38.190 --> 17:45.770]  And so, you know, when I got in, when the ATF came to talk to me, I thought that they, of course, they know what I'm doing.
[17:46.010 --> 17:47.330]  You know, I'm just experimenting.
[17:47.570 --> 17:48.490]  Why are they bothering me?
[17:49.910 --> 17:52.850]  And, you know, they thought that I was, like, in an Obama school or something.
[17:53.430 --> 17:55.150]  So, you know, I had to diffuse them.
[17:55.310 --> 17:57.670]  But that sort of...
[17:58.910 --> 17:59.230]  Literally.
[18:00.050 --> 18:00.610]  Yeah.
[18:01.390 --> 18:10.270]  But that not getting the social implications of your actions is something that happens a lot with people on the spectrum.
[18:10.830 --> 18:26.810]  And, you know, maybe not specifically interest in chemistry, but, you know, this pattern of spending hours and hours and hours just studying whatever it is that you're interested in, practicing whatever it is, and, like, getting really good at it is something that applies to all sorts of people on the spectrum.
[18:27.470 --> 18:32.690]  So, you know, and not all the people who have these obsessive interests are, like, nerds, per se.
[18:32.890 --> 18:34.610]  That, you know, some interests are technical.
[18:34.830 --> 18:38.970]  Like, I had chemistry and a lot of people here are electronics or software or something like that.
[18:39.110 --> 18:42.150]  But, you know, there's other people that are, like, really into history.
[18:42.150 --> 18:46.490]  Like, really into history and can tell you, like, everything about World War II tanks or something like that.
[18:46.610 --> 18:49.290]  Or trains or, you know, yeah, My Little Pony or something.
[18:50.190 --> 18:56.170]  That not all the interests are, unfortunately, as commercially applicable as the classical nerds.
[18:56.350 --> 18:59.950]  But, yeah, it's just a common theme.
[19:01.390 --> 19:03.270]  So, I don't know, well, what else?
[19:03.630 --> 19:09.290]  I want to point out that reactions, chemical reactions, can be beautiful.
[19:09.890 --> 19:13.670]  And I think that was, you know, what you were headed for.
[19:13.950 --> 19:21.210]  I actually then wanted to pick up on something that Kirsten said about not looking people in the eye because I don't do it either.
[19:21.710 --> 19:28.250]  And it is my hypothesis that you shouldn't look people in the eye because they can steal your soul.
[19:32.900 --> 19:35.780]  I used to never look anyone in the eye.
[19:35.780 --> 19:41.720]  And what happened is I guess I just realized that in some situations it's good to look people in the eye.
[19:41.820 --> 19:45.520]  For instance, I wanted to get a job, you know, in IT.
[19:46.700 --> 19:48.180]  So, I looked the recruiter.
[19:48.360 --> 19:50.080]  And the recruiter isn't technical at all.
[19:50.240 --> 19:53.880]  She, you know, some person that doesn't really know much about computers or whatever.
[19:54.240 --> 19:59.000]  So, you really need to actually win her over with your personality as well if you want the job.
[19:59.800 --> 20:02.080]  So, I would, I had to learn these things.
[20:02.280 --> 20:04.200]  And a lot of people can learn these things.
[20:04.320 --> 20:05.940]  You think that, oh, well, I'm just this way.
[20:06.280 --> 20:07.080]  You change.
[20:07.560 --> 20:11.760]  So, saying that, oh, well, I used to be this way is also an indication that you're on the spectrum.
[20:11.860 --> 20:16.380]  Even if you think now you wouldn't be considered, you really still are because you're compensating.
[20:16.860 --> 20:17.340]  Oh, yeah.
[20:17.600 --> 20:23.440]  I'd like to add to that, that a lot of women especially get late in life diagnoses or never get diagnosed.
[20:23.440 --> 20:26.460]  Because Tony Atwood has a lot of literature about this.
[20:26.540 --> 20:27.120]  Mother, hen, friends.
[20:27.300 --> 20:29.080]  The way girls are socialized early in life.
[20:29.220 --> 20:32.320]  Women learn to compensate in a way that men are not forced to.
[20:32.740 --> 20:36.200]  And so, by the time women learn what autism is, they don't always fit the criteria.
[20:36.240 --> 20:37.760]  Because I can read body language.
[20:37.860 --> 20:38.900]  I can read facial expressions.
[20:39.040 --> 20:41.580]  I can make my voice sound like a normal person's voice if I want to.
[20:42.100 --> 20:44.600]  And, but this is all stuff I've learned.
[20:44.860 --> 20:47.740]  That the difference of autism is this stuff doesn't come naturally.
[20:48.060 --> 20:51.100]  And so, I spent a long time memorizing body language dictionaries.
[20:51.220 --> 20:53.420]  When someone is interested in someone in the group, they point them out.
[20:53.440 --> 20:54.360]  They point their feet towards them.
[20:54.500 --> 20:54.760]  That's true.
[20:54.760 --> 20:59.960]  If someone is not interested in what they're saying or in what you're saying, they reply with one word answers and look away.
[21:00.120 --> 21:02.320]  And that's your cue to stop monologuing about My Little Pony.
[21:03.740 --> 21:14.560]  And that, so a lot of these things that autistic people don't necessarily have these social skills innately, but it doesn't mean that we're like disabled for life or crippled or anything.
[21:14.680 --> 21:16.740]  That we can learn them if we put our minds to it.
[21:16.840 --> 21:21.580]  And if you, I don't know, are like me and take body language to a special interest, you can get good at it.
[21:21.580 --> 21:21.660]  Absolutely.
[21:21.720 --> 21:30.840]  That just goes to show, from what I've seen, a lot of the reason that I think that you see a lot of people in this community being good at social engineering is because those are people who have studied this.
[21:30.980 --> 21:37.760]  They've looked at the actions that people do and they have an understanding, a cognitive understanding of how social stuff works.
[21:37.860 --> 21:41.020]  Whereas people who have it easy, it's just natural for them.
[21:41.080 --> 21:45.640]  They just feel things and they see things and certain things make them feel a certain way.
[21:45.640 --> 21:48.760]  So they can't, they might not be as good at social engineering.
[21:48.880 --> 21:49.140]  I'm not sure.
[21:49.220 --> 21:50.060]  That's just the hypothesis.
[21:50.220 --> 21:51.640]  It has no scientific basis.
[21:52.040 --> 21:52.840]  Oh, yeah.
[21:52.840 --> 22:02.680]  But I have found that what's really interesting is that autistic people who put their minds to learning social skills can often be better at, say, cold reading, social engineering, than neurotypicals.
[22:02.720 --> 22:06.960]  Because if it comes naturally to you, you don't think twice about why something is what it is.
[22:07.100 --> 22:10.680]  And so for example, if you ask a neurotypical person, was that girl into me?
[22:10.680 --> 22:13.300]  Like, yeah, yeah, she really liked you.
[22:13.480 --> 22:14.280]  Like, why?
[22:14.480 --> 22:15.240]  How do you know?
[22:15.380 --> 22:15.780]  I don't know.
[22:15.920 --> 22:16.620]  She just did.
[22:16.720 --> 22:17.300]  She was giving off the vibe.
[22:17.360 --> 22:18.600]  She was putting off that vibe.
[22:18.880 --> 22:21.720]  And that if you learn, oh, well, she was leaning forward.
[22:21.900 --> 22:23.880]  She put her body out on the table towards you.
[22:23.980 --> 22:25.000]  She was looking you in the eye.
[22:25.080 --> 22:27.840]  She was playing with her hair and preening and like, et cetera, et cetera.
[22:27.980 --> 22:30.340]  You can learn what flirting looks like literally.
[22:30.920 --> 22:32.440]  And that it can help.
[22:32.660 --> 22:35.160]  And you can get better at this than your neurotypical friends.
[22:35.460 --> 22:37.280]  And in fact, I have done a series.
[22:38.060 --> 22:46.800]  UCLA has a center called the Help Group, or the Peers Program, where they actually study social engineering, or not social engineering, social skills and body language.
[22:46.940 --> 22:49.660]  And they teach kids with autism, like, how to learn it.
[22:49.820 --> 22:55.180]  And I did a little video of me flirting with a girl at the doctor's office and asking her out on a date.
[22:55.300 --> 22:57.160]  So there's a little tutorial on there as well.
[22:59.220 --> 23:06.940]  I want to point out to you that if you've met one person on the autism spectrum, you've met one person on the autism spectrum.
[23:08.660 --> 23:10.160]  Everybody manifests differently.
[23:11.900 --> 23:12.740]  That is true.
[23:12.960 --> 23:14.860]  And autism is not something you have.
[23:14.860 --> 23:15.840]  It's something you are.
[23:16.000 --> 23:18.200]  It's an adjective to describe a type of person.
[23:18.680 --> 23:23.140]  It's not something you get from eating at McDonald's or something.
[23:23.480 --> 23:25.000]  Or having a shot.
[23:25.560 --> 23:25.740]  Yeah.
[23:26.680 --> 23:28.920]  As much as some people would like to argue that.
[23:29.460 --> 23:33.200]  But the idea for this talk came from that...
[23:33.200 --> 23:37.400]  I originally came here a couple of years ago, and it just occurred to me that...
[23:37.400 --> 23:39.160]  Actually, science fiction conventions, too, in general.
[23:39.160 --> 23:41.680]  It's like there's a specific kind of person.
[23:41.800 --> 23:42.080]  Anime.
[23:42.440 --> 23:43.220]  Anime conventions.
[23:43.380 --> 23:43.680]  Yeah, sure.
[23:44.000 --> 23:44.580]  But it's like...
[23:45.500 --> 23:46.780]  It's kind of hard to describe.
[23:47.020 --> 23:48.720]  But there's a specific kind of person.
[23:48.860 --> 23:51.660]  An example of this was when I first showed up last night here.
[23:51.940 --> 23:55.300]  And I can't remember the guy's name, but there was a guy who walked up to me and we were talking.
[23:55.500 --> 23:58.340]  And he was talking about the horrible noises on the subway.
[23:58.500 --> 23:59.700]  And the lighting on the subway.
[23:59.980 --> 24:05.320]  And I don't think that he knew what he was describing inadvertently.
[24:05.320 --> 24:10.120]  But I thought it was, like, great, you know, like how it coincided with this talk.
[24:10.800 --> 24:14.900]  One of the ways of thinking of this is, okay, so I'm an academic.
[24:14.940 --> 24:19.180]  And I go to, you know, academic conferences all the time.
[24:19.960 --> 24:27.120]  The difference between, say, someone who goes to the English Language Association meetings.
[24:28.020 --> 24:34.460]  Those people are very, very different from people who, say, go to science fiction conventions.
[24:34.460 --> 24:39.760]  Although many people at science fiction conventions are, in fact, interested in literature.
[24:39.760 --> 24:46.460]  And would fit in well at the Association for American Languages meetings, for example.
[24:46.840 --> 24:52.400]  However, there's a bunch of people at science fiction conventions who would fit in better here.
[24:53.900 --> 25:01.440]  The difference between them and us is that the people who go to science fiction conventions like to read about making stuff.
[25:01.440 --> 25:04.280]  The people who come here like to make stuff.
[25:05.840 --> 25:07.460]  And that's how I see the differences.
[25:10.040 --> 25:11.000]  So, questions?
[25:11.280 --> 25:14.980]  So, there is a microphone up here in the center.
[25:15.840 --> 25:20.700]  If you'd like to ask questions, you know, we're now here on the firing line for you.
[25:20.720 --> 25:23.120]  And we'll probably keep thinking of things to say.
[25:23.120 --> 25:26.600]  Yeah, if you don't have anything to ask, then we can come up with something that you might ask.
[25:26.660 --> 25:29.600]  And then answer it, like, as if you had asked it.
[25:30.300 --> 25:32.220]  That's a possibility that exists.
[25:34.600 --> 25:34.960]  Hello.
[25:35.400 --> 25:39.800]  The reason I'm here is I helped my brother get diagnosed with Asperger's a couple years ago.
[25:41.180 --> 25:46.100]  I had a lot of guilt, actually, with that because I treated him like crap because I just thought he was lazy his whole life.
[25:47.580 --> 25:52.760]  But after I read up on it and I discovered more about it, it was like, oh, that is my brother.
[25:53.920 --> 25:59.800]  One of the things that I have trouble relating with my brother, and so the reason I'm here is to learn more about it.
[25:59.920 --> 26:05.640]  But also to understand from your perspective, I try to help him and support him.
[26:05.720 --> 26:11.400]  But I'm not exactly sure how much is just being, you know, an asshole versus how much is really helping him.
[26:11.400 --> 26:15.560]  So I was wondering, people who tried to help you who are neurot...
[26:16.560 --> 26:16.960]  Neurotypicals.
[26:17.360 --> 26:17.760]  Neurotypicals.
[26:18.720 --> 26:21.560]  What, like, from your experiences, what would help us?
[26:21.760 --> 26:22.040]  Yeah.
[26:22.220 --> 26:26.720]  That, first, I want to say that neurotypical is the technical, scientific term for people who are not on the autism spectrum.
[26:26.900 --> 26:31.180]  But I hate the term because it implies that if you're not on the autism spectrum, you're like, normal.
[26:31.480 --> 26:36.320]  And I think that everybody at HOPE doesn't have autism, but the people who don't have autism aren't neurotypical.
[26:36.580 --> 26:37.320]  What does that even mean?
[26:37.380 --> 26:38.140]  Who's neurotypical?
[26:38.140 --> 26:40.120]  I've never met a neurotypical person in my life.
[26:40.500 --> 26:41.300]  But anyway...
[26:42.820 --> 26:45.700]  They go to the American Languages Association meetings.
[26:47.440 --> 26:54.760]  What I was going to say, that I had an ex-boyfriend who was probably the only neurotypical person I can think of meeting, that he was the epitome of neurotypicality.
[26:55.040 --> 26:56.660]  And this is before I was diagnosed.
[26:56.860 --> 26:58.080]  Neither of us really knew about autism.
[26:58.160 --> 27:01.740]  We didn't know I had autism, or that I was autistic, whatever terminology you want to use.
[27:02.100 --> 27:07.240]  And he just knew that there were some things that I didn't do for whatever reason, or that I did wrong, or I did weirdly.
[27:07.240 --> 27:09.160]  And so we set out to try to fix me.
[27:09.480 --> 27:10.800]  And that worked out badly.
[27:11.060 --> 27:16.780]  And I think the biggest difference between being an asshole and being helpful is you don't want to try to fix somebody.
[27:16.880 --> 27:17.820]  You're not going to fix them.
[27:17.860 --> 27:18.640]  That's just how they are.
[27:18.720 --> 27:19.800]  But you can teach somebody.
[27:20.160 --> 27:22.100]  So, for example, I learned a lot from him.
[27:22.180 --> 27:24.340]  I learned to say, good, how are you, instead of good.
[27:24.500 --> 27:25.360]  And that sort of thing.
[27:25.440 --> 27:32.080]  I learned how to listen to my voice when I talk, so I can vary with intonation instead of just talking like this all the time whenever I talk to people.
[27:32.180 --> 27:33.860]  I'm talking way too fast, so nobody can tell what I'm saying.
[27:33.860 --> 27:34.860]  That sort of thing.
[27:34.960 --> 27:37.840]  That I learned self-awareness and to pay attention to myself.
[27:38.120 --> 27:42.500]  But trying to guilt someone into forcing something they can't do.
[27:43.780 --> 27:46.700]  He would try to have the emotional relationship conversations.
[27:47.220 --> 27:48.220]  Here's how I feel.
[27:48.360 --> 27:49.640]  Here's why I feel that way.
[27:49.860 --> 27:50.380]  Your turn.
[27:50.600 --> 27:52.320]  And I tried to say that there was nothing in there.
[27:52.340 --> 27:52.880]  I don't know.
[27:53.000 --> 27:53.960]  I don't know what I feel.
[27:54.040 --> 27:54.820]  I don't know how I feel.
[27:54.900 --> 27:56.120]  It's like a blue screen of death.
[27:56.260 --> 27:57.900]  And he thought I was overthinking it.
[27:57.900 --> 28:00.080]  He said just open your mouth and talk.
[28:00.280 --> 28:01.280]  Whatever comes out.
[28:01.420 --> 28:02.580]  And I said that's not how I work.
[28:03.600 --> 28:05.320]  Like I don't think in words.
[28:05.320 --> 28:06.160]  I think in pictures.
[28:06.460 --> 28:07.680]  And so I can't do that.
[28:07.780 --> 28:12.820]  I can't explain my emotions without hours and hours of deliberation trying to sort through them.
[28:13.000 --> 28:15.760]  Though through this I learned how to kind of figure out my emotions.
[28:15.760 --> 28:16.680]  But the...
[28:16.680 --> 28:24.000]  If someone you know is on the autism spectrum and you're trying to help them, if there's something that they tell you they can't do, don't force it.
[28:24.320 --> 28:27.880]  Maybe try to give them advice to how to work around whatever's giving them problems.
[28:27.900 --> 28:30.280]  But if they can't do something, they probably can't.
[28:30.440 --> 28:34.540]  And you're just going to make them feel worse about themselves by telling them that, oh, yes, you can do it.
[28:34.560 --> 28:35.880]  You're just not trying hard enough.
[28:36.900 --> 28:41.960]  Sometimes, though, there is a certain level of, oh, well, I'm not comfortable with this and I'm not going to try.
[28:41.960 --> 28:49.000]  And if you do come off maybe a little bit as an asshole, I've had people come off that way.
[28:49.100 --> 28:52.960]  But now, later on, looking back, it's like, oh, well, I actually kind of learned something from that situation.
[28:53.160 --> 28:59.420]  So in a way, I would say that you definitely do want to help because you want to get...
[28:59.420 --> 29:01.140]  But you have to help in the right way.
[29:01.260 --> 29:05.480]  You have to be very logical about it, be very direct.
[29:05.960 --> 29:09.400]  You can't say, oh, well, you know, it'll just happen, blah, blah, blah.
[29:10.120 --> 29:11.460]  You'll just learn this.
[29:11.560 --> 29:12.420]  You'll just pick it up.
[29:13.380 --> 29:15.980]  People give that kind of advice all the time because that's how it happened for them.
[29:16.580 --> 29:16.940]  But, you know...
[29:16.940 --> 29:22.720]  There's often an element of what's in it for him to learn to do something.
[29:22.720 --> 29:31.780]  And if you can explain why it's important to act normal, that often helps.
[29:33.400 --> 29:40.600]  There has to be some self-interest for the person on the spectrum to change what is normal for them.
[29:40.860 --> 29:44.060]  It's like I've seen as kids, kids will be like, well, I don't need to take a shower.
[29:44.100 --> 29:45.200]  Why would I need to take a shower?
[29:45.300 --> 29:45.860]  I don't care.
[29:45.940 --> 29:47.060]  I don't care that I smell bad.
[29:47.060 --> 29:49.940]  But then they'll also ask me why they don't have a girlfriend.
[29:50.240 --> 29:56.360]  But if I'm able to connect those two together a lot of times, then they'll get the picture.
[29:56.500 --> 29:59.000]  Yet, surprisingly, sometimes still, no.
[29:59.480 --> 30:01.060]  I was going to use that example.
[30:01.180 --> 30:07.140]  I did not shower regularly until this neurotypical ex told me, you know, people can tell that you don't shower.
[30:07.360 --> 30:08.040]  And I said, really?
[30:08.100 --> 30:09.180]  I thought people couldn't tell.
[30:09.580 --> 30:11.740]  And he said, you know, people not only can tell.
[30:11.840 --> 30:13.220]  You say, well, I don't care what people think.
[30:13.220 --> 30:15.620]  Well, what people think affects your day-to-day life.
[30:15.800 --> 30:18.020]  Things will be easier for you if people like you.
[30:18.380 --> 30:19.980]  And so, like, learning social skills.
[30:20.120 --> 30:22.020]  People will like you if you learn social skills.
[30:22.360 --> 30:24.940]  Like, just saying, because that's basically what I was thinking.
[30:25.220 --> 30:28.980]  Just saying, like, you know, because it's rude, because it's wrong, that's, like, not a good reason.
[30:29.220 --> 30:32.980]  But if you say, like, because you're more likely to get a job that you want.
[30:33.580 --> 30:34.060]  You know?
[30:34.300 --> 30:35.220]  Like, it's...
[30:35.780 --> 30:37.580]  They have to have the value to them.
[30:37.720 --> 30:40.920]  And if you can make that clear to them, then they'll want to do it actively.
[30:43.120 --> 30:48.080]  There's a psychological test for Asperger's comprised of 50 questions.
[30:48.360 --> 30:50.740]  And I'm curious if any of you have taken that test.
[30:51.160 --> 30:51.480]  Yeah.
[30:51.720 --> 30:52.300]  Is it the Cambridge one?
[30:52.420 --> 30:53.820]  It actually made me cry.
[30:54.120 --> 30:54.280]  Is it that?
[30:54.700 --> 30:56.980]  I'm not sure who put it out, but it's 50 questions.
[30:57.280 --> 30:58.340]  And you find it all over the Internet.
[30:58.340 --> 30:59.360]  You could do the self-test.
[30:59.520 --> 31:01.380]  I'm curious also if you think it's accurate.
[31:01.620 --> 31:02.280]  I took it the other day.
[31:02.340 --> 31:03.660]  I got a 35 out of 50.
[31:04.000 --> 31:05.440]  Yeah, I've taken, like, all these tests.
[31:05.580 --> 31:08.040]  And so far, I've found that the longer ones tend to be better.
[31:08.040 --> 31:08.500]  I think...
[31:08.500 --> 31:10.020]  I know what you're talking about, the 50-question one.
[31:10.060 --> 31:11.580]  I think that must be the AQ.
[31:12.040 --> 31:13.140]  And that one's pretty good.
[31:13.440 --> 31:15.680]  It's too short to really be comprehensive.
[31:15.960 --> 31:17.040]  Really, I recommend...
[31:17.040 --> 31:19.360]  It has a silly name, but the aspie quiz.
[31:19.520 --> 31:22.440]  If you Google the aspie quiz, it has several hundred questions.
[31:22.660 --> 31:26.960]  And it's constantly updating based on that people can fill in whether they have a diagnosis or not.
[31:27.060 --> 31:29.500]  And they compare the answers from people who are on the spectrum.
[31:29.500 --> 31:32.420]  And some of the questions have nothing to do with autism, so there's controls.
[31:32.940 --> 31:36.340]  And it gives you a spider diagram of not just a yes or no.
[31:36.440 --> 31:41.300]  It gives you which areas you're strong or weak in or how you present, that sort of thing.
[31:41.340 --> 31:43.300]  And so it's a much better tool.
[31:43.540 --> 31:47.280]  And so you can tell whether you're autistic or maybe just a little spectrum-y or whatever.
[31:47.680 --> 31:48.120]  I don't know.
[31:48.180 --> 31:48.740]  I like that one.
[31:49.020 --> 31:53.360]  And sometimes when you take these tests, you'll get, oh, well, I'm not on the spectrum.
[31:53.360 --> 32:01.480]  But then if someone else took the test and pretended that they were you and answered as if you would from their perception of you, then you would pass with flying colors and be an aspie.
[32:01.560 --> 32:05.120]  Because sometimes we don't have, oh, of course I'm good at social skills.
[32:05.220 --> 32:05.420]  Yeah.
[32:05.700 --> 32:07.300]  Yeah, I go to parties all the time.
[32:07.420 --> 32:11.760]  And you answer the questions different depending on the day.
[32:11.960 --> 32:12.200]  Yeah.
[32:12.400 --> 32:16.900]  So, you know, your numbers can vary depending on how you're feeling.
[32:16.900 --> 32:20.940]  But I took a couple of them when I was still in denial.
[32:21.220 --> 32:22.820]  And they all made me cry.
[32:26.080 --> 32:26.520]  Hi.
[32:26.700 --> 32:27.500]  My name's Tatiana.
[32:27.740 --> 32:31.380]  And I think it's very interesting that the subject of job seeking keeps coming up.
[32:31.440 --> 32:33.160]  So I'm actually a technical recruiter.
[32:33.460 --> 32:38.420]  And a week ago, a week ago, I was training a junior recruiter on how to do phone screens.
[32:38.620 --> 32:42.760]  And we talked to this one guy who seemed to be very technically proficient.
[32:42.760 --> 32:47.000]  And when we got off the phone, she was like, wow, was that just like the most awful interview ever?
[32:47.000 --> 32:50.880]  And I said, you know, I actually think he's probably on the autism spectrum.
[32:51.040 --> 32:52.800]  Because he was speaking in monotone.
[32:52.900 --> 32:55.700]  And it was kind of difficult to pull additional information out of him.
[32:55.760 --> 32:58.440]  And so I said, you know, I think we need to be sensitive about that.
[32:58.760 --> 33:02.380]  We need to pass these notes on to the hiring manager because he seems really technically good.
[33:02.760 --> 33:05.060]  But I wasn't really able to elaborate past that.
[33:05.160 --> 33:09.460]  So I would really love your guys' advice on how we can be more sensitive to that.
[33:09.980 --> 33:12.000]  Ask them to show you what they've done.
[33:12.500 --> 33:17.080]  I mean, like, a lot of the time, they will have some sort of projects that they will have done themselves.
[33:17.280 --> 33:18.620]  Yeah, like a portfolio of sorts.
[33:18.900 --> 33:20.580]  And that's a really good way.
[33:21.460 --> 33:33.120]  But that's like a big new thing in recruiting is, you know, tapping the untapped talent in, you know, all of these, like, people who spend all day programming.
[33:33.120 --> 33:38.420]  Yeah, so if you're looking for somebody like that, I mean, it's like feeding rabbits.
[33:38.680 --> 33:45.160]  You just need to occasionally toss them, you know, more Club-Mate and chocolate.
[33:45.380 --> 33:48.340]  And they'll just sit there and program for 20 hours a day.
[33:49.660 --> 33:54.280]  The university that I go to has, their business program is starting to adopt what you're talking about.
[33:54.280 --> 33:59.860]  That one of my friends just graduated, but she had a class where they did an exercise like this for autism awareness.
[34:00.120 --> 34:03.160]  That they gave all the students questions, basically.
[34:03.400 --> 34:08.300]  You have this hypothetical guy, outperforms everyone in your company, outproduces everyone in your company.
[34:08.300 --> 34:09.860]  He's your best worker by far.
[34:11.280 --> 34:16.520]  But he, he, there have been complaints from other workers that they make, that he makes them feel uncomfortable.
[34:16.860 --> 34:18.010]  He doesn't talk appropriately.
[34:18.380 --> 34:19.280]  He's very monotone.
[34:19.360 --> 34:20.180]  He's socially awkward.
[34:20.640 --> 34:26.360]  He, he doesn't, he behaves inappropriately, but he, like, no harassment, nothing like that.
[34:26.400 --> 34:27.060]  He's just weird.
[34:27.360 --> 34:29.660]  And, but he's the best person in the company.
[34:29.800 --> 34:30.500]  Would you promote him?
[34:30.680 --> 34:32.640]  And everybody said, no, this guy's awful.
[34:32.780 --> 34:33.700]  I want to fire him.
[34:33.880 --> 34:38.320]  And so the professor turned around and read them what they'd said and said, do you, do you realize what you're saying?
[34:38.320 --> 34:42.360]  You want to fire your best employee because he doesn't know how to make small talk at the coffee machine.
[34:42.900 --> 34:51.980]  And that, and so they, they were doing autism awareness of kind of, as you're saying, the higher ups, especially getting programs to, for explaining what autism is.
[34:52.120 --> 34:57.340]  That it's not like the weird guy in the office who you're worrying about whether he's going to go postal someday.
[34:57.520 --> 35:00.740]  That it's just the, the awkward guy who's really good at his job.
[35:00.960 --> 35:05.480]  And that being able to look past the interview etiquette, whether they can shake hands and that sort of stuff.
[35:05.480 --> 35:07.780]  And looking at the resume, at what they can do.
[35:08.060 --> 35:12.860]  And so that's really educating the recruiters, educating the bosses, the people in the office, that sort of thing.
[35:13.020 --> 35:17.380]  And so it's really a systemic issue and it's hard to address in just one way.
[35:17.740 --> 35:22.080]  But on the bright side, it seems that more companies are becoming aware.
[35:22.400 --> 35:26.500]  There are like entire companies that are devoted to staffing people with autism.
[35:26.680 --> 35:26.940]  Yeah.
[35:27.560 --> 35:29.060]  Google's going for this now too.
[35:29.060 --> 35:30.660]  Yeah, Google even has an initiative.
[35:31.100 --> 35:31.180]  All you ask is out there.
[35:32.220 --> 35:37.280]  We, we've talked to them about that they have an entire like autism special project that they're, that they're working on.
[35:37.280 --> 35:41.120]  They're trying to recruit people without degrees, without experience, but who do good work.
[35:41.740 --> 35:42.180]  And like...
[35:42.180 --> 35:49.580]  Because a lot of times people on the spectrum, you know, I, for instance, I, I was in school and college, I, I would work a ton on my special interest.
[35:50.320 --> 35:54.040]  Sometimes I was able to like meld that and somehow make it into something that gave me a grade.
[35:54.140 --> 35:58.260]  But when that didn't happen, I would just work on my special interest and not do the other work that I was supposed to do.
[35:58.620 --> 36:06.880]  So Jack failed out of high school, but has the old FBI crime lab directors sworn testimony that he has a doctorate degree knowledge of explosive chemistry.
[36:09.560 --> 36:10.460]  Thanks guys.
[36:10.660 --> 36:11.340]  I appreciate it.
[36:15.110 --> 36:15.750]  Alrighty.
[36:15.790 --> 36:17.290]  This is going to be fun.
[36:17.810 --> 36:29.570]  I'm one of those people that until like very recently, maybe like six to eight months ago, I pretty much was kind of like in denial.
[36:29.810 --> 36:30.750]  Didn't want to be...
[36:30.750 --> 36:31.350]  Been there.
[36:31.430 --> 36:32.430]  Didn't want to be different.
[36:32.950 --> 36:34.650]  Like I wanted to be normal.
[36:35.110 --> 36:35.970]  Yeah, it's not gonna work.
[36:35.970 --> 36:36.710]  But I wasn't.
[36:36.910 --> 36:37.370]  And it was...
[36:37.370 --> 36:37.890]  It's not gonna work.
[36:38.030 --> 36:39.150]  Painfully obvious.
[36:39.690 --> 36:40.810]  Poor social skills.
[36:44.450 --> 36:45.530]  Lack of tact.
[36:46.170 --> 36:49.250]  I recently actually got myself in trouble because of that.
[36:49.830 --> 36:52.490]  I have an entire group of people that does not like me.
[36:52.830 --> 36:55.090]  And I've gotten to a point where I'm like, f*ck it.
[36:56.170 --> 36:59.230]  Um, I actually don't have Asperger's.
[36:59.390 --> 37:02.330]  I have the one catch-all like...
[37:02.330 --> 37:03.390]  E-D-D-N-O-S.
[37:03.530 --> 37:03.970]  Yes!
[37:04.830 --> 37:06.490]  That's exactly what I have.
[37:06.670 --> 37:09.370]  So I don't have like the sensory things.
[37:09.370 --> 37:10.810]  I don't have all that.
[37:11.030 --> 37:13.410]  I can't make eye contact for shit.
[37:13.670 --> 37:15.850]  My social skills are hard.
[37:17.490 --> 37:20.370]  Um, I don't think I really have obsessive interests.
[37:21.850 --> 37:22.370]  But...
[37:22.370 --> 37:23.310]  You probably do.
[37:23.570 --> 37:24.370]  What brings you here?
[37:24.830 --> 37:26.510]  I mean, it's like...
[37:27.090 --> 37:28.550]  Okay, okay, okay, okay.
[37:29.070 --> 37:31.630]  I think obsessive makes it sound as if it's like...
[37:31.630 --> 37:32.430]  This hope is awesome.
[37:32.650 --> 37:33.450]  Yeah, okay.
[37:36.270 --> 37:37.310]  Um, but...
[37:37.310 --> 37:39.470]  Yeah, I was just kind of like...
[37:39.470 --> 37:41.430]  Do any other people really here?
[37:41.650 --> 37:45.550]  Like, how many people here have PDD not otherwise specified?
[37:46.490 --> 37:47.410]  What is that?
[37:47.990 --> 37:49.570]  Pervasive developmental disorder.
[37:49.830 --> 37:50.770]  It's not otherwise specified.
[37:50.770 --> 37:52.030]  Can I say something on that?
[37:52.210 --> 37:59.030]  In fact, that is a term that really does not differentiate much from what Asperger's or autism is.
[37:59.030 --> 38:02.050]  In fact, I believe it's no longer even going to be...
[38:02.050 --> 38:05.530]  It's not in the manual because it's not any...
[38:05.530 --> 38:05.550]  It was a catch-all.
[38:05.830 --> 38:12.050]  It's mainly used when they want to tell parents that someone has autism and they don't want the parents to get all afraid and stuff.
[38:12.170 --> 38:14.030]  So they just make up some name that sounds less...
[38:14.030 --> 38:15.230]  Well, that's not entirely true.
[38:15.550 --> 38:15.930]  It's the...
[38:15.930 --> 38:16.750]  Yeah, it just sounds...
[38:16.750 --> 38:22.090]  If you don't meet enough of the criteria to get the, like, points, you know, to be officially diagnosed.
[38:22.230 --> 38:27.510]  But the diagnosis requirements are, one, aimed at children, two, not very comprehensive, not very good anyway.
[38:27.930 --> 38:33.110]  So PDD-NOS basically means you're autistic, but you don't really meet the autism criteria.
[38:33.250 --> 38:33.650]  But...
[38:33.650 --> 38:34.790]  We don't really know what to do with you.
[38:34.830 --> 38:35.710]  But you don't meet Asperger's.
[38:35.710 --> 38:36.550]  Yeah, exactly.
[38:36.550 --> 38:37.090]  But you...
[38:37.090 --> 38:37.890]  But you do, though.
[38:38.070 --> 38:38.610]  I mean, the people...
[38:38.610 --> 38:40.990]  I see these people that say, oh, I have PDD-NOS.
[38:41.110 --> 38:42.170]  And I'm like, you know, you...
[38:42.170 --> 38:43.170]  Yeah, you have autism.
[38:43.170 --> 38:43.530]  Okay.
[38:44.390 --> 38:45.030]  It's clear.
[38:45.190 --> 38:47.310]  It's like, I don't see how someone could make it...
[38:47.310 --> 38:47.650]  It's not a label.
[38:47.790 --> 38:48.990]  It's what label you want to choose.
[38:48.990 --> 38:51.510]  When I hear autism, I think classical autism.
[38:51.790 --> 38:51.950]  Yeah.
[38:52.130 --> 38:53.450]  Yeah, you gotta get past that.
[38:54.590 --> 38:56.550]  I'm actually having an easier time...
[38:57.430 --> 38:57.650]  Oh, no.
[38:57.750 --> 39:01.750]  Referring to it as ASD, Autism Spectrum Disorder, than Asperger's.
[39:01.810 --> 39:03.450]  I really didn't like Asperger's.
[39:03.670 --> 39:03.810]  I mean...
[39:03.810 --> 39:05.050]  Though that South Park episode was great.
[39:05.050 --> 39:08.010]  I just talk because I'm like, okay, I'm on the spectrum.
[39:08.210 --> 39:10.070]  I can probably learn a lot from this.
[39:10.230 --> 39:10.330]  Yep.
[39:10.910 --> 39:13.810]  And also probably meet more awkward people.
[39:14.270 --> 39:14.430]  Yeah.
[39:15.150 --> 39:16.250]  Good way to make friends.
[39:17.190 --> 39:20.770]  So whenever someone tells you that you're autistic, you can just say, yeah, I am.
[39:20.970 --> 39:21.430]  High five.
[39:21.750 --> 39:22.350]  Big hairy deal.
[39:22.630 --> 39:27.910]  And I mean, it also helps to explain, like, what...
[39:27.910 --> 39:30.950]  Like, not justify, but explain, like...
[39:31.470 --> 39:33.250]  Like, people, like...
[39:33.250 --> 39:34.610]  Like, I'll talk to people.
[39:34.770 --> 39:38.790]  I'll say things, like, trying to clean up a mess, like, after I piss someone off.
[39:39.130 --> 39:43.470]  And in trying to do that, I won't see that I'm pissing them off further.
[39:43.610 --> 39:43.750]  Yeah.
[39:44.170 --> 39:49.650]  Until it reaches the boiling point where these social cues are so blaringly obvious.
[39:51.490 --> 39:52.730]  You can't miss them.
[39:52.910 --> 39:54.970]  But the subtle one that I miss.
[39:55.890 --> 39:56.210]  Yeah.
[39:56.510 --> 39:56.910]  I...
[39:56.910 --> 39:57.670]  I feel ya.
[39:59.450 --> 39:59.850]  Yeah.
[39:59.850 --> 40:01.710]  And it absolutely pisses me off.
[40:01.810 --> 40:03.830]  It makes you feel like shit when it happens.
[40:04.110 --> 40:09.550]  The thing is that, like, once you realize that it's not your fault, that when you're...
[40:09.550 --> 40:12.750]  You're doing these things because you're trying to do it in the right way.
[40:12.810 --> 40:15.130]  And if you can explain that to them and they can understand it...
[40:15.130 --> 40:19.630]  And most people, if you explain it in the right way, if you can figure out a way that you can get through to it...
[40:19.630 --> 40:24.070]  To make them understand why you're doing these things, they'll understand and give you more patience.
[40:24.410 --> 40:24.930]  Apparently...
[40:24.930 --> 40:25.490]  Yeah.
[40:25.750 --> 40:30.750]  But to help you specifically, it sounds like you need to read the book that Kirsten read.
[40:31.190 --> 40:31.910]  Oh, you mean...
[40:31.910 --> 40:32.510]  It's not a book.
[40:32.690 --> 40:34.110]  Google Body Language Dictionary.
[40:34.290 --> 40:34.470]  Yeah.
[40:34.730 --> 40:35.590]  One other thing...
[40:35.590 --> 40:36.330]  So many of them.
[40:36.330 --> 40:36.850]  I'm gonna wrap it up.
[40:36.870 --> 40:37.030]  They're great.
[40:38.030 --> 40:48.610]  Like, I'm actually around a group of people right now that if I'm not 100% politically correct, they'll jump on me.
[40:48.610 --> 40:49.990]  Don't hang out with those people.
[40:50.050 --> 40:50.510]  They'll dip so easily.
[40:50.750 --> 40:50.810]  Yeah.
[40:51.070 --> 40:51.830]  Find a new brain.
[40:52.050 --> 40:57.710]  My lack of tact makes being politically correct nearly impossible.
[40:57.870 --> 41:01.050]  And besides, politically incorrectness facilitates awesome jokes.
[41:01.650 --> 41:01.890]  All right.
[41:02.010 --> 41:03.170]  Well, thank you.
[41:03.790 --> 41:04.710]  That is true.
[41:05.090 --> 41:07.010]  Kind of riffing off of this.
[41:07.670 --> 41:10.250]  There's more than one way to be neuro non-typical.
[41:10.430 --> 41:12.790]  Because usually you just hear about autism spectrum disorder.
[41:13.190 --> 41:13.290]  Yep.
[41:13.410 --> 41:15.430]  I have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.
[41:15.710 --> 41:19.590]  And about half of my stuff fits with autism spectrum disorder.
[41:19.590 --> 41:21.610]  But the other half just completely doesn't.
[41:21.710 --> 41:23.630]  And I have a really good therapist right now.
[41:23.710 --> 41:24.810]  And the more I learn, the more...
[41:24.810 --> 41:28.230]  Because I was diagnosed in second grade, which was like late 80s, early 90s.
[41:28.230 --> 41:29.410]  And the more I learn, the more...
[41:29.410 --> 41:31.850]  Because of, you know, new research, that the more...
[41:31.850 --> 41:34.150]  The stuff that I'm like, well, maybe I have some Asperger's.
[41:34.170 --> 41:35.890]  And I actually talked to my therapist about this.
[41:35.930 --> 41:39.430]  And he's like, no, actually, we now know that people with ADD also do this.
[41:39.710 --> 41:41.590]  So, like, the poor social skills.
[41:41.910 --> 41:43.770]  The not being able to read faces.
[41:43.810 --> 41:46.290]  I went from not being able to read faces to being way too hypersensitive.
[41:46.290 --> 41:49.150]  And, like, I read tired as angry.
[41:49.890 --> 41:50.250]  Always.
[41:51.070 --> 41:52.650]  I read tired as angry, so I have to go.
[41:53.130 --> 41:53.530]  That's what I do.
[41:53.530 --> 41:55.190]  Are you angry at me or just tired?
[41:55.510 --> 42:02.330]  So, if you feel like, you know, this is kind of fitting, but it's not really fitting, maybe you have one of the other ways of being neuro non-typical.
[42:02.470 --> 42:03.190]  Look into that.
[42:03.270 --> 42:03.670]  Yeah, yeah.
[42:03.950 --> 42:05.710]  Look into the neurodiversity movement.
[42:05.870 --> 42:07.930]  There's more than just autism and neurotypical.
[42:08.170 --> 42:08.330]  And the whole...
[42:08.330 --> 42:09.230]  There's Venn diagrams.
[42:09.470 --> 42:10.170]  We all overlap.
[42:10.370 --> 42:10.870]  We're all different.
[42:11.070 --> 42:13.630]  And the whole, you know, is it a disability or is it just being different?
[42:13.630 --> 42:16.530]  I think maybe it can be one for one person and one for another.
[42:16.770 --> 42:20.230]  And I think it's more of, do you feel this is holding you back in your life?
[42:20.370 --> 42:23.890]  Does it help you at this point to identify this as a disability?
[42:24.130 --> 42:26.550]  And if it does, then go ahead and do that, you know?
[42:26.650 --> 42:33.190]  Because, I mean, I identify it both as just being different and as a disability because sometimes it really does screw with my life, so...
[42:33.190 --> 42:33.490]  Yep.
[42:33.670 --> 42:34.710]  Use what works for you.
[42:36.710 --> 42:37.110]  Hi.
[42:37.310 --> 42:41.630]  Could you talk a little bit about the process of repatterning your vocal style?
[42:41.630 --> 42:44.870]  Like what type of exercises you did or what you found useful?
[42:45.570 --> 42:48.570]  Recording yourself is helpful, like with a good camera or something.
[42:48.850 --> 42:50.610]  Not just because, I mean, it takes out the bass.
[42:50.710 --> 42:51.470]  It makes you sound weird.
[42:51.750 --> 42:56.090]  But if you're monotone and if you're talking too fast...
[42:56.090 --> 42:57.570]  I talk way too fast, so that was for me.
[42:57.930 --> 43:07.410]  Then listening to yourself and then from that trying to listen to your voice while you're talking and being able to learn to kind of autocorrect while you're talking.
[43:07.410 --> 43:10.910]  And so a lot of times I relapse back into the too fast monotone kind of voice like this.
[43:11.310 --> 43:13.370]  But I can slow down and notice I'm doing it.
[43:13.490 --> 43:17.030]  And revert back to going up and down in the appropriate places.
[43:17.290 --> 43:19.290]  Going up for questions and things like that.
[43:19.610 --> 43:23.330]  And that, I don't know, it takes a lot of practice and it takes a lot of self-awareness.
[43:23.410 --> 43:28.230]  That if you forget, if you're tired or if you're stressed or just not paying attention, you can relapse.
[43:28.590 --> 43:30.070]  Whatever, relapse is not the right term.
[43:30.070 --> 43:33.870]  But it takes a lot of focus.
[43:34.030 --> 43:36.990]  Which is I think why autistic people tire out in social situations.
[43:37.010 --> 43:39.430]  Because we have to focus ten times more than anyone else.
[43:39.530 --> 43:42.290]  But if you do it for a long enough period of time and you're...
[43:42.290 --> 43:44.550]  You'll be thinking about this for way too long.
[43:44.710 --> 43:47.190]  You'll be in a social situation and it will drain you.
[43:47.570 --> 43:50.410]  Eventually you'll pick up some of that and it will become natural.
[43:50.730 --> 43:52.210]  At a very slow rate.
[43:52.470 --> 43:53.370]  It turns into habit.
[43:53.590 --> 43:55.230]  The 10,000 hour rule and all that.
[43:55.230 --> 43:57.130]  The biggest thing is slow down.
[43:58.270 --> 44:02.710]  And looking up YouTube videos of people who you admire their voices or vocal pattern.
[44:02.950 --> 44:04.030]  And trying to copy them.
[44:04.330 --> 44:05.090]  I got that advice.
[44:05.330 --> 44:11.370]  I got that advice from a transgender woman who said that's how she learned how to talk like a girl.
[44:11.490 --> 44:14.750]  That she copied, I can't remember her name, a woman from the office who has a really girly voice.
[44:14.930 --> 44:16.770]  So I looked her up too and copied her voice.
[44:16.930 --> 44:19.490]  By the way, do you think Brad Pitt naturally sounded sexy?
[44:20.130 --> 44:22.250]  He had to learn how to talk like that.
[44:22.250 --> 44:24.910]  Yeah, it's not like it's natural for everyone.
[44:25.590 --> 44:27.310]  Andy, Andy Paris has a question.
[44:28.110 --> 44:28.790]  What's up, Andy?
[44:28.890 --> 44:29.310]  Hi Andy!
[44:29.430 --> 44:30.610]  Full disclosure, I know these guys.
[44:30.790 --> 44:33.330]  But I have a question for you, which is...
[44:33.850 --> 44:35.610]  It's a spectrum, as you've mentioned.
[44:36.130 --> 44:40.090]  And there are, you know, you can be autistic in one way and maybe not in another.
[44:40.330 --> 44:41.410]  And there's...
[44:41.410 --> 44:44.510]  We also, as adults, you said, find ways of compensating.
[44:44.690 --> 44:58.470]  And since all the diagnostic material is geared toward children, can you talk about how it's benefited you, especially you, Mary, as an adult, to come to terms with it and use the label as you have today?
[44:58.730 --> 45:03.550]  And why we don't just throw up our hands and go, well, I've compensated enough and it doesn't really matter.
[45:03.730 --> 45:09.070]  You know, why does it matter to us to identify or not?
[45:09.070 --> 45:17.510]  I find that I don't piss people off quite so much when I tell them up front that I don't recognize people.
[45:17.970 --> 45:20.510]  Because, you know, I can't tell you...
[45:20.510 --> 45:28.750]  Because I literally can't tell you how many times I've walked past people on the street that I know, but I don't recognize them.
[45:29.250 --> 45:34.330]  I now have as my default expression this kind of, you know, half smile.
[45:34.330 --> 45:39.470]  And if someone looks vaguely like they're looking at me, I smile larger.
[45:40.810 --> 45:43.710]  And I have no freaking clue who they are.
[45:44.650 --> 45:53.510]  So, you know, I think of it as I'm kind of mindlessly amiable all the time on the street.
[45:53.510 --> 45:55.090]  And that's my default.
[45:55.850 --> 46:06.650]  As a teenager, my default was an absolutely expressionless face that people assumed meant I hated them and wanted to remove their livers.
[46:09.370 --> 46:12.210]  People used to hate me, like, in class.
[46:12.390 --> 46:19.070]  And then, like, one of my friends who's been in a few classes of mine when I was in college, he would say that anytime...
[46:19.070 --> 46:19.730]  I would not...
[46:19.730 --> 46:23.230]  Sometimes I wouldn't tell people that I was on the spectrum until, like, halfway through the class.
[46:23.230 --> 46:25.950]  And they would hate me and treat me, like, really, like, shitty.
[46:26.110 --> 46:27.370]  They would just be mean to me.
[46:27.470 --> 46:32.410]  And the minute, like, I said that I was on the autism spectrum, explain what that was, they would just complete...
[46:32.410 --> 46:36.790]  Everyone in the entire class would completely change their tune and, like, be really friendly and be nice to me.
[46:36.830 --> 46:39.490]  Not because they felt bad, but in part because of that.
[46:39.670 --> 46:43.670]  But also because they realized that they were being, like, a jerk because I wasn't trying to do that.
[46:43.870 --> 46:52.670]  I noticed also, I interviewed Dina Gassner once, who's a woman who does autism advocacy and she has autism, that she said as an adult her biggest thing is full disclosure.
[46:52.910 --> 46:58.770]  And you don't necessarily have to use the word autism because that draws to mind a totally disabled young child for most people.
[46:58.930 --> 47:02.430]  And so, I have a friend who has autism, is totally in denial.
[47:02.630 --> 47:07.510]  But what she refers to her biggest disability is that I, and I share this, she has audio processing disorder.
[47:07.690 --> 47:10.890]  That if there's a whole lot of background noise, it's hard to separate noises.
[47:11.350 --> 47:16.610]  And so if, for example, in a conference, I can't tell what someone's saying to me unless they're facing me with their mouth.
[47:16.770 --> 47:19.050]  I'm very close to them and I can watch their lips move.
[47:19.230 --> 47:23.210]  And so she, instead of saying she has autism, though she wouldn't say that anyway, she doesn't know.
[47:23.450 --> 47:27.350]  But for me, instead of saying I have autism, I'll tell somebody, oh, could you repeat that?
[47:27.510 --> 47:28.550]  And if they say, like, why?
[47:28.690 --> 47:31.610]  They'll repeat it, like, twice, then think I'm joking and stop.
[47:31.790 --> 47:34.010]  And I have to say, no, I have audio processing disorder.
[47:34.170 --> 47:36.810]  And that doesn't carry the social connotations.
[47:36.810 --> 47:49.030]  And so if you can find terms for if you have a particular area where you are slightly disabled, or really disabled, whatever, find a term for that that's separate from autism that people can understand without having a lengthy lecture.
[47:49.170 --> 47:50.890]  Just, oh, I have audio processing problems.
[47:51.450 --> 47:55.430]  Or I'm bad at directions, or I'm bad at whatever you're bad at, just explain what it is.
[47:55.510 --> 47:59.030]  And people will be, oh, okay, I understand, because not everyone, no one's perfect.
[47:59.270 --> 47:59.870]  Some people are.
[48:01.690 --> 48:02.350]  I am.
[48:04.710 --> 48:06.590]  So this is a scientific question.
[48:08.170 --> 48:12.450]  Unfortunately, it seems like the field of psychiatry and mental health is very imprecise.
[48:14.570 --> 48:19.450]  In such a way that, you know, you can imagine having diseases that are either on or off.
[48:20.470 --> 48:23.970]  And this cluster analysis might be able to show that, right?
[48:24.070 --> 48:29.070]  You would see the normal people would cluster on one end of the spectrum of the other people at the other end.
[48:29.070 --> 48:34.870]  But there's also more continuous disorders, which autism spectrum disorder seems to be.
[48:35.770 --> 48:52.510]  But I'm wondering if there has been an effort to collect these studies and summarize the findings in such a way that, you know, maybe there is a little bit of clustering in some parts of the spectrum or other parts of the spectrum.
[48:52.730 --> 48:55.710]  And it would just be really interesting to be able to see that.
[48:56.090 --> 49:02.210]  Well, Jack and Kirsten have been involved with some studies at Harvard Medical.
[49:02.210 --> 49:12.710]  And those people argue that there is a distinct difference in brain architecture of people on the spectrum versus neurotypicals.
[49:12.790 --> 49:19.470]  And I don't know where other, you know, where other folks fall, but they can talk about that better.
[49:19.470 --> 49:26.090]  And people with autism, like, round the board, have higher neuroplasticity than neurotypicals.
[49:26.270 --> 49:32.430]  And that can be used for... that in the future is probably going to be used in, like, diagnostics.
[49:32.570 --> 49:38.790]  Like, that and alternatively, like, even just using, like, fMRI, that there's a bunch of empirical...
[49:38.790 --> 49:40.150]  Functional magnetic resonance imaging.
[49:40.370 --> 49:46.830]  There's a bunch of empirical tests, not opinions, that are very close to being, you know, completed and approved.
[49:46.830 --> 49:57.770]  Yeah, but what they found is that wherever you lie on the spectrum, it's not a linear spectrum, but, like, from the high-functioning Asperger's to low-functioning autism, they have this shared neuroplasticity rate.
[49:58.010 --> 50:04.630]  And that that's something that is noticeably different, no matter how affected you are, whatever, and how autistic you are.
[50:04.910 --> 50:05.930]  There are other theories, too.
[50:06.090 --> 50:07.390]  I mean, this is something...
[50:07.390 --> 50:08.970]  This is just one study we're participating in.
[50:09.030 --> 50:09.730]  ...a developing field.
[50:09.890 --> 50:10.490]  Three minutes left.
[50:10.610 --> 50:11.530]  We only have three minutes left.
[50:11.650 --> 50:13.450]  So let's get to the next question.
[50:13.930 --> 50:25.250]  I found it to be very socially acceptable at parties to, you know, tell people, I'm horrible with faces, I'm gonna forget your name in five seconds, please remind me three more times in the next two minutes what your name is.
[50:25.550 --> 50:25.650]  Yup.
[50:25.650 --> 50:28.030]  And then maybe I'll remember, feel free to shame me after.
[50:28.270 --> 50:32.210]  I'd like your comment about the talking in a rapid monotone.
[50:32.210 --> 50:40.270]  I wish the supermarket automated checkouts would do that, because the slow-paced, infracted tone wastes my time.
[50:40.510 --> 50:42.130]  So I'd like your efficient speech.
[50:43.470 --> 50:57.890]  With regard to eye contact and so forth, I'm no longer asked to do interviews at work, because I'm either looking at my computer, taking notes of everything the candidate says, or I'm touch typing and staring a hole through the candidate's forehead and making them uncomfortable.
[50:58.470 --> 51:14.530]  If you can borrow techniques from, you know, police interrogation methods, you can get just the right balance of paying enough attention to, you know, exert control over a situation, but not so much that your interlocutor checks out on you.
[51:14.530 --> 51:16.190]  That's mostly unsuccessful.
[51:17.230 --> 51:20.630]  So, you can swipe techniques from all over the place.
[51:21.030 --> 51:25.690]  As an academic, I'm kind of used to now just looking at the heads as just blobs.
[51:29.750 --> 51:32.730]  And so we have two more questions, and...
[51:32.730 --> 51:33.930]  But they'll have to be fast.
[51:34.090 --> 51:34.210]  Yeah.
[51:34.690 --> 51:40.970]  So, I have a nine-year-old autistic son, and he's, like, kind of in the middle.
[51:41.150 --> 51:44.250]  He's not quite low-functioning, not quite high-functioning.
[51:44.250 --> 51:57.670]  And I was wondering, from your experience being within the spectrum, what advice could you give for, like, adapting to a world that's not really built for autism spectrum people?
[51:58.290 --> 52:03.090]  Oh, I think that question is going to take longer than the time we have left, but the one thing I do...
[52:03.090 --> 52:04.390]  School might be your hardest problem.
[52:04.590 --> 52:09.510]  So, open disclosure, all the teachers make sure they know what autism is and that he's not just doing bad things on purpose.
[52:09.650 --> 52:12.210]  Well, he goes to school for that, but I'm just...
[52:12.210 --> 52:12.390]  Okay, good.
[52:12.390 --> 52:13.690]  That's, I think, the biggest thing.
[52:13.690 --> 52:16.050]  Also, keep in mind that he's not always going to be the way he is right now.
[52:16.270 --> 52:19.250]  Parents get this idea that, oh, well, he's at this point at this level.
[52:19.430 --> 52:21.430]  It's not a static thing.
[52:21.490 --> 52:23.910]  Like, I've seen him make jumps, but, yeah, my concern is, like...
[52:23.910 --> 52:25.070]  He will grow and change just like everybody else.
[52:25.070 --> 52:25.470]  What is he going to do?
[52:25.850 --> 52:26.310]  Yeah, okay.
[52:26.350 --> 52:26.470]  Yeah.
[52:27.550 --> 52:28.790]  And the last question.
[52:30.370 --> 52:30.850]  Hi.
[52:31.210 --> 52:31.570]  It's...
[52:31.570 --> 52:32.230]  Wow.
[52:32.750 --> 52:34.030]  So, it's not really a question.
[52:34.030 --> 52:38.070]  It's more some anecdotal sort of thing because I can sort of relate.
[52:38.290 --> 52:39.390]  I guess I'm in denial.
[52:40.430 --> 52:41.170]  But, okay.
[52:41.230 --> 52:44.290]  So, you spoke about the female support network.
[52:44.450 --> 52:45.270]  I didn't have that.
[52:45.850 --> 52:55.790]  I didn't grow up with any real network outside of theater because I was Asian in a predominantly Italian, white, private Catholic school growing up in the jewish town next door.
[52:55.930 --> 52:57.930]  And my parents were missionaries for a cult.
[52:58.070 --> 52:59.530]  So, I didn't belong anywhere.
[53:00.030 --> 53:01.410]  I couldn't talk to anybody.
[53:01.410 --> 53:03.490]  So, I spent a lot of time reading books.
[53:03.550 --> 53:07.570]  And I loved books, especially a lot of, like, these really cerebral things.
[53:07.710 --> 53:14.150]  So, a lot of the science fiction and whatnot because fantasy books did not make sense to me for the longest time because they try to connect with you emotionally.
[53:14.150 --> 53:19.170]  In science fiction books, there's a lot of logic and reasoning and a lot of potential stuff that they like to explore.
[53:19.230 --> 53:20.870]  And they explain this to you.
[53:20.950 --> 53:25.050]  So, a lot of these things just make more sense intellectually as opposed to emotionally.
[53:26.290 --> 53:27.530]  But, again, theater.
[53:28.490 --> 53:35.430]  You're talking to a lot of weird people that, in order to interact with these people, you have to learn these emotional roles.
[53:35.910 --> 53:37.490]  So, they're throwing us off.
[53:37.490 --> 53:37.990]  They're throwing us off.
[53:38.110 --> 53:43.990]  Also, before we go, I just want to say, check out wrongplanet.net and please do not try to hack it because you probably will succeed.
[53:43.990 --> 53:44.570]  There's...
[53:44.570 --> 53:44.990]  Yeah.
[53:45.310 --> 53:46.290]  Are they turning my microphone off?
[53:46.350 --> 53:50.990]  There's a women's forum on Wrong Planet for women's issues, too.
[53:51.710 --> 53:52.130]  All right.
[53:52.230 --> 53:52.750]  Well, thank you.
[53:53.210 --> 53:53.790]  Thank you.