[00:00.000 --> 00:02.020]  ...which kind of community manager.
[00:02.880 --> 00:05.980]  And I'm going to talk to you guys a little bit about decentralizing the web.
[00:07.420 --> 00:19.640]  We'll look at some of the earlier examples of centralized and non-decentralized...and decentralized communications and see what that sort of infers for where we might go forward.
[00:23.000 --> 00:26.400]  So this is the very first machine that sent email.
[00:26.700 --> 00:28.320]  The big thing in the back, not the typewriter.
[00:28.840 --> 00:30.320]  Although that might have been part of it.
[00:30.980 --> 00:35.220]  This was sent by Ray Tomlinson in 1971 on ARPANET.
[00:35.380 --> 00:38.620]  And he's responsible for the ubiquitous at symbol.
[00:39.060 --> 00:45.140]  And so, there was originally no need for decentralization because everything was centralized.
[00:45.560 --> 00:48.960]  In fact, almost everybody that you wanted to talk to was probably in the same building.
[00:49.620 --> 00:55.060]  It was only when they had more than one machine in that building that they had the person at some computer format.
[00:55.060 --> 01:00.580]  And so, that started being implemented on about 40 machines in 1972.
[01:01.220 --> 01:06.320]  So, the point of that is that email started all in one place.
[01:06.380 --> 01:08.340]  So, everyone used the same format.
[01:09.020 --> 01:14.280]  By 1982, SMTP, according to Wikipedia, became widely used.
[01:14.400 --> 01:18.020]  And I think they meant pretty much everybody who had a computer was using it.
[01:18.020 --> 01:20.700]  So, for that metric of widely used.
[01:22.360 --> 01:24.280]  Everything else was built to work on top of it.
[01:24.420 --> 01:30.500]  And so, even though SMTP might not be a perfect standard, it is ubiquitous and it does work as a decentralized thing.
[01:30.680 --> 01:37.960]  Like, you can have your Gmail, you can have your own domain mail, you can have anything you want and it will still talk to other emails.
[01:37.960 --> 01:44.140]  So, that's sort of like the good news that decentralized communications can happen.
[01:44.400 --> 01:48.060]  So, we can take that as a good thing that we are in the right direction.
[01:48.900 --> 01:50.140]  Chat is another one.
[01:50.360 --> 01:53.220]  So, in 1982 with the Commodore 64s.
[01:53.380 --> 01:55.460]  Did anyone have those at their house when they were a kid?
[01:55.880 --> 01:56.080]  Yeah?
[01:56.420 --> 01:57.040]  Tooth Invaders?
[01:57.200 --> 01:57.740]  Do you remember that?
[01:58.020 --> 01:58.360]  Okay.
[01:59.020 --> 02:01.340]  We got two games free with ours.
[02:01.540 --> 02:02.620]  So, that was kind of cool.
[02:04.060 --> 02:13.000]  But, when people got that, they also got the opportunity to sign up for Quantum Link, which is you can send a message for a fee.
[02:13.420 --> 02:17.060]  And most people were just becoming acquainted with the whole idea of home computers.
[02:17.300 --> 02:23.440]  So, they, you know, they weren't really asking, like, why, or can I have a different format, or is this the only service you have?
[02:23.440 --> 02:26.400]  It was like, ooh, we can send messages for an extra fee?
[02:26.580 --> 02:26.840]  Awesome.
[02:27.220 --> 02:29.820]  So, that company later became AOL.
[02:29.820 --> 02:40.640]  And then took that sort of not-savviness into the, you can pay by the minute for connection to the Internet.
[02:41.200 --> 02:54.980]  So, at any rate, people used to IM, but only on the, you know, only with people who had the same service that they did, until Jabber came to the rescue with the XMPP protocol.
[02:54.980 --> 03:00.080]  So, that means that all of the different IM clients can finally talk to each other.
[03:01.420 --> 03:03.840]  That took till 2000.
[03:04.300 --> 03:18.400]  So, it took a while to get to have all of the different chat clients be able to talk to each other, and have everybody agree that that was a good thing, and finally give up the ghost of a dream that people were going to all migrate over to their one service and give up on all the other ones.
[03:18.400 --> 03:30.340]  So, it takes some work to get folks to believe that having a standard format versus, like, waiting for everyone to finally give up and come to your service is what's going to happen.
[03:30.340 --> 03:33.020]  But, with chat, we finally did do that.
[03:33.240 --> 03:34.600]  So, it's a good thing.
[03:36.280 --> 03:37.000]  Let's see.
[03:38.360 --> 03:40.500]  So, monopolies, serious business.
[03:44.640 --> 03:51.180]  The telecom industry sort of, it sort of makes Machiavelli look like he's just playing with toys.
[03:51.540 --> 03:53.600]  When you take a look at what they've done.
[03:53.820 --> 03:59.340]  So, they, this is, telecom is private companies that were tasked with providing a public good.
[03:59.340 --> 04:04.840]  And then the result is a lot of misplaced cost and rampant corruption.
[04:05.240 --> 04:10.380]  So, when Ma Bell was, you know, we had just one phone company in this country.
[04:10.780 --> 04:16.600]  We had really expensive long distance and then the expectation of giant government handouts.
[04:16.740 --> 04:19.060]  And then we pay for that via our taxes.
[04:19.240 --> 04:23.540]  So, we're paying for the privilege of having really expensive long distance.
[04:24.080 --> 04:26.660]  And this is still kind of how telecom operates.
[04:26.660 --> 04:31.300]  They're definitely in that, like, if a business model works for you, then don't fix it.
[04:31.520 --> 04:35.980]  And so, Verizon, for example, reports a loss on their state filings.
[04:36.180 --> 04:41.760]  But they have outsourced, like, a lot of their expenses to subsidiary affiliates.
[04:41.880 --> 04:43.220]  They also have Verizon in the name.
[04:43.300 --> 04:45.520]  So, it's not like they're really trying to be super secretive.
[04:45.520 --> 04:53.420]  But then those affiliates lowball what they bill for their services and then report a loss.
[04:53.600 --> 04:59.320]  So, it's like this complicated thing where they charge themselves, like, too little to make money.
[04:59.460 --> 05:03.720]  And then report a loss because they didn't charge themselves enough money.
[05:05.760 --> 05:11.780]  So, there's a whole video I can send you a link for later if you want to, you know, be disgusted with telecom.
[05:12.360 --> 05:13.840]  More so, that is.
[05:14.100 --> 05:20.920]  So, they use those loss numbers to lobby for higher customer rates and then more tax relief.
[05:21.260 --> 05:23.660]  And it's also how they operate with broadband.
[05:23.980 --> 05:27.880]  So, we give, like, a few large private companies money to provide broadband.
[05:27.880 --> 05:31.200]  And then they sort of lie about how difficult it is.
[05:31.300 --> 05:32.860]  They come back and they ask for more money.
[05:33.040 --> 05:39.040]  And then we give it to them because we really want everyone to have broadband and be connected to the Internet.
[05:39.380 --> 05:45.700]  So, that was, like, one of the promises of the 1996 Telecommunications Act that we were going to, like, have Internet for everyone.
[05:45.960 --> 05:49.580]  And so, at around, like, 2000, the U.S. ranked fifth in the world among the world's nations for broadband penetration.
[05:54.040 --> 05:56.320]  And then we dropped to, like, 22.
[05:57.840 --> 06:12.200]  We sort of abandoned our commitment to any kind of competition for broadband services and decided, like, we'll just let these people who are doing a terrible job of providing broadband with a lot of money, we'll give them more money to continue to do a terrible job.
[06:13.000 --> 06:21.800]  All of that is to say that a giant subsidized monopoly to provide a public good doesn't really work.
[06:21.800 --> 06:24.800]  So, in case you were unclear on that.
[06:24.960 --> 06:34.280]  And in case you were wondering exactly how much money, it's probably $340 billion that has been given out to connect everyone to the Internet.
[06:34.580 --> 06:43.420]  I feel like for a fraction of that, I could go out to Wyoming with, like, a truck full of Cat5 and do, like, at least a little bit of a better job.
[06:43.420 --> 06:46.440]  And probably, maybe I'll take a couple people from this room.
[06:46.680 --> 06:48.860]  So, we might need a couple of trucks.
[06:51.340 --> 07:05.620]  The other thing that happens when you have a communication system that's been given a government-sanctioned monopoly is that they tend to take on the idea that they should control what kind of communication you have.
[07:05.620 --> 07:11.880]  So, this is the seal of the New York Vice Department.
[07:12.180 --> 07:15.960]  And so, in 1873, the U.S. government decided that the kinds of things you should mail should be controlled.
[07:19.880 --> 07:20.560]  We gave the U.S. Postal Service, you know, a sanctioned monopoly to do letter delivery and mail delivery to each person's home.
[07:29.280 --> 07:33.960]  But we didn't want them to be delivering anything that was obscene or indecent.
[07:34.240 --> 07:36.480]  And this is, like, pre-prohibition.
[07:36.480 --> 07:39.760]  So, it meant nothing that promoted alcohol consumption.
[07:39.820 --> 07:43.560]  But you also couldn't talk about abortion or contraception.
[07:43.900 --> 07:44.560]  Not sex.
[07:44.740 --> 07:48.280]  Like, that was, like, already assumed to be, like, way off the table.
[07:48.520 --> 07:51.720]  But, like, contraception or, you know, abortion.
[07:51.980 --> 07:53.480]  Like, even the discussion of it.
[07:53.560 --> 08:04.340]  And so, one of the things that happens when you ban the discussion is that it seems that the other side has sort of more of a majority than they do.
[08:04.540 --> 08:06.360]  And you see this a lot with vice stuff.
[08:06.560 --> 08:13.040]  Like, so, with, like, the National Organization for the Reformation of Marijuana Laws.
[08:13.140 --> 08:17.060]  Like, you look at how many people are willing to say, like, I smoke pot.
[08:17.240 --> 08:19.860]  And then they're like, oh, I don't really want people to know that.
[08:19.940 --> 08:21.280]  But I think that it should be okay.
[08:21.320 --> 08:27.440]  And then as soon as someone stands up and says, like, I think we should legalize it, everyone's like, that guy smokes pot.
[08:27.440 --> 08:34.840]  And so, that's kind of the thing that happens when you make it illegal to talk about or sort of shame the discussion.
[08:35.200 --> 08:38.500]  Is that, you know, you'd say, like, oh, I think you'd be okay.
[08:38.820 --> 08:44.240]  Like, you know, everyone should be able to mail around, like, weird, hardcore pornography, maybe with animals.
[08:44.420 --> 08:46.060]  And then everyone's like, you're f*cking a goat.
[08:46.060 --> 08:54.040]  So, you can't even just say, like, no, no, no, I just support their right to take pictures.
[08:55.220 --> 08:57.520]  Somehow the distinction gets totally lost.
[08:57.520 --> 09:00.280]  So, it really, it changes the discussion.
[09:01.220 --> 09:05.060]  Finally, so, the Comstock Law was in 1873.
[09:05.060 --> 09:10.220]  It took a hundred years before anything changed this.
[09:10.220 --> 09:16.240]  Now, the, of course, like, what people were actually doing was sending things in brown paper wrappers.
[09:16.400 --> 09:22.480]  And there was an implicit agreement that you didn't peep under other people's brown paper wrappers or whatever.
[09:23.140 --> 09:30.920]  Which is great until you get the address wrong and then someone who really wasn't expecting to get porn gets porn in the mail.
[09:30.920 --> 09:33.340]  And that's what happened with Miller versus California.
[09:33.680 --> 09:41.880]  So, they ended up deciding that it was okay for people to mail porn.
[09:41.940 --> 09:47.260]  As long as it met some kind of human or community standards.
[09:47.920 --> 09:52.320]  And didn't depict sexual conduct in a patently offensive way.
[09:52.440 --> 09:54.620]  Which is, I guess, offensive is in the eye of the beholder there.
[09:55.240 --> 10:02.160]  And then that the work as a whole lacks serious literacy, artistic, political, or scientific value.
[10:02.260 --> 10:06.620]  So, it has to have some value besides the, you know, the obvious value.
[10:09.100 --> 10:10.900]  So, that was 1973.
[10:11.060 --> 10:20.220]  Finally, in 1983, someone who had sent an advertisement for some condoms in the mail and someone got it.
[10:20.220 --> 10:22.400]  It was like not the kind of magazine they usually get.
[10:23.680 --> 10:24.200]  Complained.
[10:24.420 --> 10:31.140]  And then, the court finally says the government cannot reduce the adult population to reading what is only fit for children.
[10:32.200 --> 10:36.380]  Finally, they probably paved the way for a lot of penis enlargement spam as well.
[10:36.540 --> 10:39.860]  But, free speech comes with some speech that you might not want.
[10:40.060 --> 10:42.520]  So, that's sort of what happens.
[10:46.160 --> 10:52.880]  So, looking at more modern communications platforms other than magazines and mail and telephones.
[10:54.560 --> 11:00.940]  This is what came out of the 1996 Telecommunications Act so far as like television.
[11:01.280 --> 11:03.900]  And the numbers are almost the same for radio.
[11:03.900 --> 11:05.660]  This is a couple years after.
[11:05.920 --> 11:08.480]  I think it's actually like 2007.
[11:09.060 --> 11:11.900]  So, they had like about 10 years for the telecommunications.
[11:12.760 --> 11:13.960]  Like, no holds barred.
[11:14.020 --> 11:17.380]  Go ahead and consolidate all the various media outlets sort of thing.
[11:17.620 --> 11:20.900]  And what happens is that consolidation is bad.
[11:21.120 --> 11:27.200]  It leads to lower representation of women and minorities because the competition is too stiff.
[11:27.200 --> 11:33.600]  So, a lot of these station... former station owners had been folks who had just one station.
[11:33.840 --> 11:40.760]  And they just couldn't compete with a massive conglomerate that was on the cusp of having like 30 or 40 or 50 stations.
[11:41.200 --> 11:44.060]  So, they couldn't get the advertising revenue.
[11:44.300 --> 11:45.980]  They couldn't get the syndicated programs.
[11:46.180 --> 11:47.200]  All these kinds of things.
[11:47.360 --> 11:48.600]  And so, they got squeezed out.
[11:49.140 --> 11:55.440]  So, consolidation of media means that the richest and the most powerful end up controlling what's left over.
[11:55.440 --> 11:57.220]  So, it's bad.
[11:59.760 --> 12:03.000]  These were put together by an organization called Free Press.
[12:03.200 --> 12:08.600]  And their central tenet is that a well-informed citizenry produces a healthier democracy.
[12:08.600 --> 12:10.240]  And I happen to agree.
[12:10.240 --> 12:13.100]  And I think that it's not only true for television and radio.
[12:13.100 --> 12:15.540]  I think it's also true for Internet.
[12:15.820 --> 12:18.520]  And people get a lot of their news on the Internet.
[12:18.820 --> 12:22.960]  So, there's numbers on that too from Pew if people want to look it up.
[12:22.960 --> 12:28.260]  Anyway, so, I think that this is pretty telling.
[12:28.260 --> 12:31.460]  This doesn't reflect the population very well.
[12:31.720 --> 12:38.780]  So, you end up with some problems about like what kinds of stories get covered and that sort of thing as well.
[12:38.900 --> 12:41.320]  Which there's been a little bit more about recently too.
[12:44.080 --> 12:47.700]  So, what if we solve the problem where we have the Internet access?
[12:48.980 --> 12:50.220]  We'll still have problems.
[12:50.680 --> 12:52.600]  Well, maybe not 99, but we'll still have some.
[12:53.920 --> 12:55.620]  A big one is privacy.
[12:55.920 --> 12:59.800]  We're going to have problems with privacy with consolidated media.
[12:59.800 --> 13:05.440]  So, the one size fits all kind of thing when most people just don't care about privacy like Facebook.
[13:06.000 --> 13:13.040]  Or, you know, there was an exercise keeping app where the default was that it just published all your exercise stuff to the web.
[13:13.160 --> 13:17.440]  And people didn't know that their exercise stats were getting published to the web.
[13:17.440 --> 13:21.440]  And they were publishing intercourse as an exercise.
[13:22.220 --> 13:26.420]  Which, if you're the person who said like two hours of vigorous, like okay.
[13:26.680 --> 13:30.740]  But for the person who said ten minutes of moderate, they might not have wanted that on the Internet.
[13:31.180 --> 13:32.000]  I don't know.
[13:32.480 --> 13:42.460]  So, privacy when it's like the path of least resistance is the best choice, the only choice, the only one that everybody else is on, is a pretty bad scene.
[13:43.560 --> 13:50.800]  You know, so having one entity to serve a specific function means that you have one kind of privacy and it's the lowest common denominator type.
[13:51.040 --> 13:56.820]  It's the type where you can ask for your password again like five times in a week because you're just that bad at passwords.
[13:57.720 --> 14:02.460]  Another problem that you see with centralization is overt censorship.
[14:03.140 --> 14:05.440]  Who's seen something censored on social media?
[14:05.440 --> 14:07.620]  You put it up or someone put it up and then it was gone?
[14:07.860 --> 14:08.420]  What did you see?
[14:09.420 --> 14:09.900]  I don't know.
[14:10.060 --> 14:10.560]  You don't see?
[14:10.560 --> 14:11.300]  You have...
[14:11.300 --> 14:11.780]  All right.
[14:12.020 --> 14:12.120]  Oh.
[14:13.760 --> 14:16.540]  I guess that's a chicken and egg question, right?
[14:19.460 --> 14:23.860]  So, you do see stuff, you know, like anti-corporate messages.
[14:24.260 --> 14:25.320]  Like I've definitely...
[14:25.320 --> 14:29.960]  I didn't see the original message, but things from Occupy where they said like messages were taken down.
[14:30.520 --> 14:35.280]  Or, you know, periodically someone will be like, those people look gay.
[14:35.280 --> 14:42.660]  Like that's dirty and you should take that picture down and which is, you know, that is pretty ridiculous.
[14:42.660 --> 14:44.140]  You could just not look.
[14:45.300 --> 14:56.560]  So, you see overt censorship, but then you also see a sort of more subtle censorship, which means that you have, you know, just certain kinds of things rising to the top.
[14:56.560 --> 15:01.260]  So, like increasingly on Google searches, you have paid stuff rising to the top.
[15:02.060 --> 15:05.440]  Other types of social norms get set up and perpetuated on other services.
[15:05.440 --> 15:14.240]  So, like on YouTube, you see like a pretty toxic comment culture to the point where if you put up a video of your children, like you should just turn comments off.
[15:14.380 --> 15:16.840]  Like you can't have normal comments.
[15:17.060 --> 15:27.380]  Like, because it's like, oh yeah, isn't that so nice that like, you know, little Sally's playing the piano and then there's like weird, like, I'm not going to even repeat that.
[15:27.380 --> 15:30.180]  But like terrible, weird, you know, turn off the comments.
[15:30.380 --> 15:35.760]  If you're going to post a video with your children in them and they're going to want to look at the comments on the video, you just can't do it.
[15:36.900 --> 15:49.660]  And so that's the social norm right now is that like, if you post videos, then you have to, you know, deal with the most anonymous, like dirty minded, like gross person on the Internet with like the first comment almost.
[15:49.660 --> 15:55.860]  So, um, we, and it, we don't have to all host our video in one place.
[15:55.980 --> 16:06.240]  Like, so, and we could allow people to have, uh, you know, facilitate the comments or, or have it be, wait until it's like you've looked at it and stuff like that.
[16:06.660 --> 16:13.160]  Um, or set up like a group that is okay for comments and then, you know, strangers can't comment.
[16:13.160 --> 16:18.960]  Uh, so the other thing I think would be great is, uh, customized online identities.
[16:19.180 --> 16:21.500]  You don't have to be like the public person everywhere.
[16:21.780 --> 16:31.180]  Like maybe you could be public here and not public there and, uh, and negotiate your specific relationship with each online service and each type of sharing that you do.
[16:31.320 --> 16:33.400]  Or not sharing as the case may be.
[16:34.100 --> 16:38.600]  Uh, big and centralized services also means that stuff's less responsive.
[16:38.600 --> 16:53.120]  So there was like a lady who, um, her Twitter account was, uh, it turned out that some company like seven years into her tweeting under that account handle, um, chose their, uh, company name to be her Twitter handle.
[16:53.380 --> 17:00.540]  And so they were like, well, uh, we'll just call up Twitter and say like, hey, can you guys, uh, dump this person who's squatting on our business name?
[17:00.540 --> 17:07.720]  And for a couple of days they did, but it was only because she had like a huge pile of followers that they had to give her handle back.
[17:08.320 --> 17:11.780]  Um, so you, you end up with a really unresponsive thing.
[17:11.920 --> 17:18.140]  There's, um, I, I met someone whose cousin's last name is Death, spelled D-E-A-T-H.
[17:18.140 --> 17:25.480]  And so she can't use her own name on Facebook because they assume that she's putting some like fake goth name on there.
[17:25.660 --> 17:30.840]  And so she instead has a fake name for her Facebook because they won't let her use her real name.
[17:30.940 --> 17:34.440]  And she has no idea who to call about that or write about that.
[17:34.460 --> 17:39.220]  So she's just given up like, all right, um, you know, I'll just have a fake name.
[17:39.400 --> 17:42.380]  And then she's kind of not very happy with her experience on Facebook.
[17:42.380 --> 17:50.300]  Um, it also means that, you know, new features come really slowly and not because of user demand, but because of advertiser demand.
[17:50.400 --> 17:52.120]  Again, see Facebook.
[17:52.880 --> 17:56.700]  Um, here are some existing projects.
[17:56.980 --> 17:59.680]  Uh, does anyone here use Identica or StatusNet?
[18:00.760 --> 18:01.200]  Okay.
[18:01.480 --> 18:02.160]  Couple people.
[18:02.480 --> 18:02.780]  Awesome.
[18:03.100 --> 18:06.500]  How about, um, uh, Media Goblin's not rolled out yet.
[18:06.500 --> 18:08.900]  And I would already know if you were on there because I work there.
[18:09.020 --> 18:10.720]  But, um, how about Diaspora?
[18:10.860 --> 18:11.760]  Is anyone on Diaspora?
[18:12.200 --> 18:12.640]  Yeah?
[18:12.960 --> 18:13.180]  Awesome.
[18:13.380 --> 18:16.740]  Have you tried to get your friends to come on board and use Diaspora?
[18:16.860 --> 18:17.700]  Hey, how'd that work out?
[18:18.180 --> 18:18.420]  Right?
[18:18.640 --> 18:18.900]  Okay.
[18:19.560 --> 18:21.940]  Um, so, you know, so there's some stuff.
[18:22.100 --> 18:24.880]  There's some, uh, there are some things out there so far.
[18:25.620 --> 18:30.080]  Um, Buddy Cloud is a federated social network that uses XMPP.
[18:30.300 --> 18:37.160]  Uh, but again, it's kind of that silo thing, same as like, uh, Jabber is where it's like, goes out to one central thing.
[18:37.160 --> 18:43.420]  So, you have like a, I don't know what you would, like a thing with little satellites instead of a many to many relationship.
[18:44.300 --> 18:48.640]  Um, and so, you know, that's, that could use some work.
[18:48.740 --> 18:51.820]  It could end up being a part of an overall service that would be great.
[18:51.820 --> 18:55.280]  So, these are some of the things that have been built so far, like as whole projects.
[18:55.580 --> 18:58.300]  Um, which seems like, yeah, okay.
[18:58.520 --> 19:05.260]  But the, the part that's actually the good news, um, is like the tools that have already been built.
[19:05.440 --> 19:17.320]  So, there would be, if we wanted to have like a decentralized version of everything and then decentralized services of other things that we haven't even thought of yet, uh, you might think like, wow, that sounds like a lot of work.
[19:17.320 --> 19:29.800]  Uh, but the great news is that most of it is like already written with a free software language, free software tools, uh, web development libraries that are all free and, uh, available for your use.
[19:30.020 --> 19:42.320]  And so, um, the reason that they haven't been completely turned into like free services for everybody to use is that a lot of them have a little bit of like a secret sauce kind of bit that's licensed proprietarily.
[19:43.040 --> 19:46.240]  So, so you only have to kind of build a couple little bits and pieces.
[19:46.500 --> 19:49.540]  And I'm going to go over what's been built and what, uh, needs building.
[19:51.460 --> 19:53.720]  Um, so serving across instances.
[19:54.060 --> 19:55.360]  We have that pretty well covered.
[19:55.500 --> 19:58.800]  There's like, uh, the underlying bit where there's databases.
[19:59.060 --> 20:01.420]  We have a million databases and then we have a million things.
[20:01.640 --> 20:10.400]  Uh, so some of the stuff is older, like the XMPP, like that's a push style thing where, um, you're always, uh, pushing out.
[20:10.960 --> 20:12.580]  But, um, or I'm sorry.
[20:13.280 --> 20:14.920]  Uh, yeah, that is a push.
[20:15.140 --> 20:16.740]  And then the RSS, which is a pull.
[20:17.000 --> 20:21.280]  And then, uh, PubSubHubbub, which is a push.
[20:21.700 --> 20:26.800]  Um, which means instead of having to deal with a lot of traffic coming in, like do you have anything new?
[20:26.880 --> 20:27.580]  Do you have anything new?
[20:27.640 --> 20:28.420]  Do you have anything new?
[20:28.580 --> 20:28.640]  Do you have anything new?
[20:28.740 --> 20:32.300]  Which could be sort of onerous with a small server.
[20:32.300 --> 20:37.900]  Like if you're running your own small federated instance, instead you have a push where you're like, okay, just sign up.
[20:38.000 --> 20:39.940]  And then when I have something, I'll send it out to you.
[20:40.320 --> 20:45.540]  Which, uh, changes the way that serving across instances has been done before.
[20:45.880 --> 20:50.320]  And, uh, and there's a pretty robust, like, international community around PubSubHubbub.
[20:50.680 --> 20:51.840]  So that one's good.
[20:52.320 --> 20:54.920]  Uh, salmon is, uh, that's what the salmon are for.
[20:55.360 --> 20:58.120]  Uh, is for private conversations across instances.
[20:58.120 --> 21:03.640]  So, like, if you have, like, uh, like on Facebook, you have, like, the private message as opposed to just writing on the wall.
[21:03.780 --> 21:07.060]  So salmon takes care of that on decentralized stuff.
[21:07.600 --> 21:09.600]  Um, let's see.
[21:09.900 --> 21:12.320]  So, yay.
[21:13.120 --> 21:14.240]  Serving across instances.
[21:14.680 --> 21:18.120]  Um, identity management.
[21:18.320 --> 21:20.180]  We actually have a ton of tools for this.
[21:20.340 --> 21:22.700]  And you guys probably already know about some.
[21:22.820 --> 21:24.160]  Maybe some that I have listed.
[21:24.320 --> 21:25.140]  Maybe some that I don't.
[21:25.140 --> 21:28.520]  But, um, OpenID, which is a single sign-on.
[21:28.620 --> 21:32.420]  So you can sign on to a bunch of different, uh, connected instances.
[21:32.720 --> 21:33.380]  That's already built.
[21:33.820 --> 21:35.180]  BrowserID is already built.
[21:35.740 --> 21:40.300]  WebFinger, um, is, lets you point at a site and get information.
[21:40.300 --> 21:42.200]  So you can see if you want to talk to it.
[21:42.740 --> 21:48.040]  Uh, OAuth is, uh, a little bit more of a, a more hackery version of OpenID.
[21:48.880 --> 21:50.340]  Uh, there's, of course, GPG.
[21:50.540 --> 21:51.840]  That's not the most user-friendly.
[21:52.080 --> 21:53.600]  How many people actually use GPG?
[21:54.100 --> 21:54.720]  I know.
[21:55.140 --> 21:55.720]  Do you...
[21:55.720 --> 21:57.560]  Have you tried to get friends to use GPG?
[21:58.660 --> 21:59.100]  Yeah.
[21:59.380 --> 21:59.540]  Yeah.
[21:59.640 --> 22:00.100]  How'd that go?
[22:00.820 --> 22:04.060]  Did they lose their password in the first day or the first week?
[22:04.760 --> 22:05.200]  Right.
[22:05.420 --> 22:05.580]  Okay.
[22:05.940 --> 22:07.080]  Anyway, so...
[22:07.080 --> 22:08.080]  Oh, but there are some other stuff.
[22:08.200 --> 22:09.400]  Semen Magic Signatures.
[22:09.420 --> 22:11.020]  That has encryption built in.
[22:11.240 --> 22:17.200]  And then, um, some folks have been using SSL as part of a, um, a web service, uh, thing.
[22:17.320 --> 22:21.100]  So that's the same thing you use for, um, secure browsing or IRC.
[22:21.100 --> 22:24.260]  So, uh, so those are all the things that are built.
[22:24.380 --> 22:25.040]  And those are huge.
[22:25.140 --> 22:26.040]  That's a lot of stuff.
[22:26.300 --> 22:28.160]  Uh, some of the things that need some work.
[22:28.260 --> 22:32.260]  And this is where I kind of hope that you guys will be like, oh, I always wanted to work on that.
[22:32.380 --> 22:33.840]  I just didn't know anyone wanted me to.
[22:34.080 --> 22:35.920]  So, um, this is exciting.
[22:36.620 --> 22:38.460]  Um, done.
[22:38.460 --> 22:39.140]  All right.
[22:39.640 --> 22:41.160]  So, uh, decentralized search.
[22:41.320 --> 22:43.520]  There's a really generic version of decentralized search.
[22:43.680 --> 22:49.280]  But there isn't anything that's kind of localized or really good for, um, decentralized services yet.
[22:49.480 --> 22:50.640]  So one of the things that...
[22:50.640 --> 22:56.000]  When you have everything on one server in one place, you just search that one place.
[22:56.180 --> 22:59.500]  And then you can find, like, oh, is my old boss on here?
[22:59.580 --> 23:00.520]  Because I want to block her.
[23:00.680 --> 23:01.480]  She drives me nuts.
[23:01.480 --> 23:02.520]  You know, or whatever.
[23:02.760 --> 23:06.780]  Like, or you want to know, like, where can I get more pictures of poodles?
[23:07.040 --> 23:08.620]  And you can just search and get them.
[23:08.740 --> 23:09.740]  And it's...
[23:09.740 --> 23:11.540]  It's all great because it's all in one place.
[23:11.540 --> 23:14.880]  And the way that the search works works the same on each and every single instance.
[23:15.900 --> 23:19.980]  So that doesn't work so well yet on decentralized services.
[23:20.220 --> 23:21.140]  So that needs some...
[23:21.140 --> 23:21.940]  That needs some help.
[23:22.160 --> 23:22.640]  That's a thing.
[23:23.120 --> 23:24.180]  Um, groups and tags.
[23:24.320 --> 23:27.560]  People have a lot of groups and tags currently on centralized services.
[23:28.140 --> 23:30.600]  Um, that's almost more of a UI thing.
[23:30.600 --> 23:32.460]  But, uh, it's...
[23:33.440 --> 23:33.840]  It...
[23:33.840 --> 23:34.220]  It...
[23:34.220 --> 23:34.780]  UI is important.
[23:35.040 --> 23:36.160]  And, uh, people...
[23:36.160 --> 23:40.600]  People need those kinds of things to be able to, you know, for us to get them over the hump.
[23:40.720 --> 23:42.820]  Like, come over to the weird stuff you haven't heard of yet.
[23:43.220 --> 23:44.740]  So, uh, so that's important.
[23:45.440 --> 23:47.520]  Uh, kind of going with that.
[23:47.640 --> 23:49.680]  The categorization and the relationships.
[23:50.020 --> 23:52.300]  Uh, the big one is the spam handling, though.
[23:52.700 --> 23:54.760]  Uh, and so if you hate spam...
[23:54.760 --> 23:55.640]  Everyone hates spam, right?
[23:56.200 --> 23:56.580]  Yes.
[23:56.820 --> 23:57.300]  Okay, great.
[23:57.500 --> 24:03.540]  So if you hate spam and you think you might have the skill to work on, that, uh, that's a huge problem with decentralized services.
[24:03.760 --> 24:10.460]  So one of the great things about a centralized service is that you can do traffic analysis and figure out, like, what looks like spam and what doesn't.
[24:10.560 --> 24:12.660]  Because you have a massive pile of data.
[24:12.860 --> 24:15.300]  And then you just deploy, like, one...
[24:15.300 --> 24:21.060]  Like, this stuff is spam to one place and it proliferates out to all your servers and you're good.
[24:21.620 --> 24:27.340]  When you have decentralized servers, everyone is doing essentially their own spam gatekeeping.
[24:27.620 --> 24:28.800]  Which is not ideal.
[24:29.240 --> 24:29.740]  Because then...
[24:29.740 --> 24:36.040]  So, like, say you get over the hump and you're like, okay, I will host my own instance because I'm told that I'm supposed to and it's the good thing to do.
[24:36.180 --> 24:39.760]  And, you know, we want to, like, bust monopolies and it's really great.
[24:39.900 --> 24:46.020]  And then, like, you open your website up for the Internet to come and friend you or whatever it is.
[24:46.020 --> 24:47.980]  And then, like, you just get a lot of spam.
[24:48.480 --> 24:50.320]  So, not a great experience.
[24:50.840 --> 24:59.140]  Also, kind of makes you wonder why you went through all that bother to, like, host a lot of spammy comments on, you know, like, three pictures of poodles that you thought were great.
[24:59.520 --> 25:05.340]  So, spam handling needs a lot of work before we're going to see massive adoption of decentralized social media stuff.
[25:05.760 --> 25:09.560]  So, think about that, especially if you hate spam.
[25:10.380 --> 25:11.460]  We can use your help.
[25:15.120 --> 25:17.640]  So, I mentioned user interface briefly.
[25:18.860 --> 25:24.180]  This is always kind of an issue with free software projects.
[25:25.080 --> 25:26.680]  Lots of great things.
[25:27.260 --> 25:29.200]  Really terrible user interface.
[25:29.580 --> 25:32.040]  And then they're like, but it's so important.
[25:32.460 --> 25:33.260]  And it's like, no.
[25:33.420 --> 25:34.680]  And it is.
[25:34.880 --> 25:40.300]  There's a lot of, you know, you see this with a lot of the, you know, variants of stuff on the desktop.
[25:40.300 --> 25:49.920]  And people saying, like, well, if you just jimmy it this way and then you close it and open it back up again, usually it will have saved your thing the correct way and it's totally fine.
[25:50.920 --> 25:52.360]  Most people don't want to do that.
[25:53.420 --> 26:00.000]  This might be a room full of people that are, like, happy to do that and be like, oh, you know, GIMP froze again.
[26:00.000 --> 26:02.800]  I'll just close it and open it again and it's fine.
[26:03.620 --> 26:05.120]  And I'm one of those people.
[26:05.400 --> 26:08.800]  I use the GIMP for the slides here and, you know, and I don't mind.
[26:08.960 --> 26:13.220]  But to see massive adoption, we're going to have to do a really good job on user interface.
[26:13.220 --> 26:22.380]  And so, if you're a UI person, then this is your chance to shine and come to the rescue of the free software decentralized web movement.
[26:23.040 --> 26:27.660]  So, the other thing is I think it also has to be a lot easier.
[26:29.060 --> 26:30.060]  So, easy.
[26:30.060 --> 26:39.900]  I showed this slide at another one at another conference and I was told that actually the poodle is really easy for balloon animals.
[26:39.960 --> 26:41.000]  I didn't know that.
[26:41.600 --> 26:48.060]  But I think it kind of illustrates the point is that, like, what is easy to one person is maybe not easy to another person.
[26:48.460 --> 26:53.960]  And I'm usually pretty good with my hands, but I don't know how to make a poodle out of a balloon.
[26:55.280 --> 27:14.600]  And I think the same thing is, like, you know, there's probably lots of folks in this room that are like, oh, I'd be totally happy to set up a server, like, you know, do a little dream plug and whatever, and, you know, run my own instance and SSH into the machine and check it over the next couple of days and make sure it's doing okay and not getting overrun by spam,
[27:14.640 --> 27:15.120]  whatever, whatever.
[27:16.040 --> 27:24.460]  I think for there to be a lot of adoption of decentralized web services, it has to be just as easy as it is to install WordPress on your site.
[27:24.780 --> 27:31.300]  So for us at Media Goblin, that's our goal is to have it be like, oh, do you want WordPress?
[27:31.620 --> 27:34.640]  Like, yes, bloop, it's magically on your website.
[27:34.820 --> 27:36.980]  And do you want Media Goblin?
[27:37.140 --> 27:40.400]  Like, yes, bloop, and know, like, oh, what happened?
[27:40.620 --> 27:45.860]  So that's where I think the decentralized services have to go.
[27:46.860 --> 27:50.140]  So documentation also, super helpful.
[27:50.940 --> 28:00.400]  There's a couple of different things, like tools that are in the works that could help sort of abstract that process that might make it a little easier in the future.
[28:00.640 --> 28:08.180]  So, like, maybe OpenShift or maybe Juju would help us to sort of abstract the process of hosting your own web instance.
[28:09.420 --> 28:13.070]  I don't know that those are there yet, and I don't know if that's where they want to go specifically.
[28:13.070 --> 28:18.950]  But there's, again, there's some tools out there that could be built that could make it happen.
[28:19.530 --> 28:26.650]  So that's kind of where we're at with what's been built and what's not been built.
[28:29.830 --> 28:32.150]  So I want everyone to join the Legion.
[28:32.410 --> 28:33.590]  Help with existing projects.
[28:33.590 --> 28:43.650]  So if you're a designer or a coder or a translator or a documenter, especially if the idea of decentralized spam blocking appeals to you, then that's super exciting.
[28:44.810 --> 28:52.370]  If you're interested in building plugins and user interface stuff or helping to abstract deployment, then you can come work with us at Media Goblin.
[28:53.810 --> 28:55.150]  Or start new projects.
[28:55.370 --> 28:57.310]  There's all kinds of other stuff that could be decentralized.
[28:58.190 --> 29:07.050]  One of the things I think would be really cool is to see, like, healthcare records be, you know, plug and play so that when you move, they're not like, what?
[29:07.270 --> 29:10.430]  And you can just kind of take your health records with you everywhere.
[29:10.470 --> 29:15.770]  And maybe, like, actually the patient would control them instead of hoping that someone sent them on.
[29:16.490 --> 29:18.410]  Traffic might be another really good one.
[29:18.410 --> 29:22.350]  There's probably, you know, like, here in New York, everything's on a grid.
[29:22.350 --> 29:23.270]  I live in Boston.
[29:23.270 --> 29:26.250]  And we like to say it was all built by cow paths.
[29:26.470 --> 29:30.850]  And so, like, traffic in Boston is really different than traffic in New York.
[29:30.850 --> 29:35.250]  But you might sometime find yourself driving from New York to Boston or back again.
[29:35.430 --> 29:47.930]  And then you would want to be able to hook up to, like, seamlessly to another kind of traffic application that gave you, like, meaningful, like, good alternate routes to get around the Fenway Park or whatever.
[29:48.290 --> 29:50.890]  So, like, other kinds of projects.
[29:50.890 --> 29:53.590]  I also think, like, maybe dating profiles.
[29:53.590 --> 29:54.190]  I don't know.
[29:54.310 --> 29:56.950]  There's kind of, like, there's got to be money in that one at least.
[29:56.950 --> 29:59.190]  Like, I don't know if the other stuff, like, maybe.
[29:59.450 --> 30:06.750]  But, like, if you could take your dating profile with you, you know, once it was like, oh, no one really likes Nerve.com anymore.
[30:06.750 --> 30:08.170]  They all went over to OkCupid.
[30:08.530 --> 30:14.610]  And now I got to fill in all this stuff and find another picture where I look good with, you know, in a bathing suit or whatever it is.
[30:14.870 --> 30:17.970]  And, you know, if you could just take it with you and then just plug it in.
[30:18.090 --> 30:19.150]  Like, now I'm cool.
[30:19.150 --> 30:19.790]  I'm over here.
[30:20.290 --> 30:21.750]  So, that might be another one.
[30:22.070 --> 30:25.970]  I don't know if that one's the most socially useful, but it's probably the most lucrative.
[30:26.270 --> 30:34.210]  So, and speaking of money, if you don't want to do any of those things and you just want to fund a decentralized project, let me know and I'll hook you up.
[30:37.810 --> 30:39.470]  So, I'm going to take questions.
[30:39.810 --> 30:40.970]  I spoke really fast.
[30:41.970 --> 30:45.510]  So, there's probably stuff I missed and there's probably things that people want to know.
[30:45.730 --> 30:46.750]  So, yeah.
[30:59.530 --> 30:59.970]  Right.
[31:00.150 --> 31:02.570]  So, how does Media Goblin work in specific?
[31:03.050 --> 31:09.830]  So, we're at the point where we're doing a great job of hosting video and images and not a great job of serving across instances.
[31:10.170 --> 31:13.110]  We're in the process of implementing a lot of the Identica stuff.
[31:13.110 --> 31:15.770]  And so, it's basically everyone has their own database.
[31:16.150 --> 31:18.310]  We had a database...
[31:18.310 --> 31:23.750]  When we had picked out a database at first, we had picked out Mongo because it scales up, like, amazingly well.
[31:23.910 --> 31:29.350]  And then we realized, like, oh, we're totally thinking it wrong because we want a lot of small databases.
[31:29.970 --> 31:32.390]  And Mongo doesn't scale down really gracefully.
[31:32.390 --> 31:33.850]  So, we switched back to MySQL.
[31:34.070 --> 31:34.990]  So, it's like a lot of...
[31:34.990 --> 31:38.450]  Everyone has their own, like, MySQL or SQL lite database.
[31:38.630 --> 31:41.390]  And then it talks to the other ones using, like, push.
[31:41.630 --> 31:43.310]  So, it's...
[31:43.310 --> 31:45.390]  Is that kind of where you're...
[31:46.390 --> 31:46.790]  Yeah.
[31:46.790 --> 31:46.850]  Yeah?
[32:04.950 --> 32:05.570]  Oh, right.
[32:05.690 --> 32:09.310]  Like, is there replication so that if one site gets shut down, that stuff...
[32:09.310 --> 32:09.610]  Yeah.
[32:09.830 --> 32:16.050]  So, that is something that we're sorting, like, what do we want to have mirroring, like, if people want to share other people's photos?
[32:16.390 --> 32:19.150]  So, I think it would be, like, an opt-in and not, like, a default.
[32:19.150 --> 32:31.710]  So, not like Skype where you have other people's traffic running through your machine, but more, like, an opt-in so that you could decide, like, okay, I'm all right with hosting other people's traffic and creating a mesh so that there's redundancy.
[32:33.170 --> 32:35.090]  So, I'll go here and then here.
[32:48.900 --> 32:49.320]  Yeah.
[32:50.180 --> 32:51.600]  So, the question is...
[32:51.600 --> 32:54.860]  It sounds like it's focused on servers and things like that.
[32:56.560 --> 33:13.720]  Yeah, there are, like, example instances of Identica and of Media Goblin set up that people can look at, but we are also, like, in the process of pulling people in to take a look at the process of trying to, like, if you did set up your own instance, like,
[33:13.740 --> 33:16.000]  where did you get stuck so that we can make that part better?
[33:16.240 --> 33:26.040]  So, we do want end users, like, if you love to complain about your experience on the Internet or your experience downloading or installing something, then let me know.
[33:26.280 --> 33:28.880]  So, I hope that answered your question.
[33:29.460 --> 33:31.180]  Not exactly.
[33:31.180 --> 33:33.160]  Can you say it louder, then?
[33:33.300 --> 33:33.460]  Yeah.
[33:33.620 --> 33:33.780]  Sorry.
[33:36.720 --> 33:37.360]  An app.
[33:43.340 --> 33:43.700]  Yeah.
[33:44.180 --> 33:44.860]  Oh, okay.
[33:45.000 --> 33:45.780]  So, can you run an app?
[33:45.920 --> 33:46.760]  That's the goal.
[33:47.060 --> 33:47.740]  Is that...
[33:47.740 --> 33:47.920]  Yeah.
[33:48.260 --> 33:49.040]  It's just...
[33:49.580 --> 33:50.580]  It's a little...
[33:50.580 --> 33:54.420]  It's still a little more difficult than we'd like it to be for the average user.
[33:54.620 --> 33:54.780]  Yeah.
[33:55.060 --> 33:55.280]  Okay.
[33:55.940 --> 33:57.560]  In the white shirt and then the blue.
[33:57.560 --> 33:58.680]  So, I guess
[34:08.420 --> 34:11.380]  we're going to be rhetorical, is where is
[34:15.470 --> 34:16.630]  your...
[34:16.630 --> 34:17.070]  Right.
[34:17.230 --> 34:21.010]  Right now, most kind of servers...
[34:21.010 --> 34:21.330]  Mm-hmm.
[34:25.630 --> 34:27.370]  What you want it to run on is...
[34:27.370 --> 34:28.270]  I'm sorry, say the last part.
[34:28.330 --> 34:28.750]  On your phone.
[34:28.910 --> 34:29.570]  On your phone.
[34:29.690 --> 34:29.910]  Yeah.
[34:30.750 --> 34:31.410]  I agree.
[34:31.590 --> 34:33.330]  I think you would want it to run on your phone.
[34:33.510 --> 34:37.430]  And that's part of, I think, doing good UI is that, like, people aren't...
[34:37.430 --> 34:38.510]  Like, I mean, it's...
[34:39.170 --> 34:42.010]  It's not even on your phone.
[34:42.330 --> 34:43.910]  Oh, I see what you're saying.
[34:43.910 --> 34:45.670]  So that the phone is actually a server.
[34:50.190 --> 34:50.630]  Yeah.
[34:52.490 --> 34:52.930]  Mm-hmm.
[34:52.930 --> 35:00.840]  Mm-hmm.
[35:09.700 --> 35:10.140]  Yeah.
[35:10.420 --> 35:10.720]  Yeah.
[35:10.720 --> 35:11.080]  Mm-hmm.
[35:11.280 --> 35:16.460]  Mm-hmm.
[35:16.460 --> 35:16.700]  Yeah.
[35:16.940 --> 35:17.780]  I think that's awesome.
[35:17.920 --> 35:20.460]  I'd love to see people be able to use their phones as servers.
[35:20.900 --> 35:26.600]  We're still stuck on where I think it's hard for people to set up a server just on their home machine.
[35:26.860 --> 35:27.560]  But the...
[35:27.560 --> 35:27.760]  I...
[35:27.760 --> 35:29.080]  Yeah, exactly.
[35:29.640 --> 35:30.160]  So...
[35:30.160 --> 35:31.860]  That was my comment as well.
[35:31.960 --> 35:32.660]  He took your comment.
[35:32.820 --> 35:33.920]  Well, not completely.
[35:34.180 --> 35:34.540]  Okay.
[35:34.540 --> 35:35.600]  This is the
[35:40.600 --> 35:42.120]  current running on the Internet.
[35:42.560 --> 35:42.840]  Mm-hmm.
[35:42.840 --> 35:43.400]  It's DNS.
[35:44.000 --> 35:44.280]  Mm-hmm.
[35:44.340 --> 35:45.320]  And SMTP.
[35:45.700 --> 35:46.040]  Mm-hmm.
[35:46.320 --> 35:47.000]  And SMTP.
[35:54.770 --> 36:01.590]  I mean, you know, and other services just don't take off because the naming and IP and routing are just too complex.
[36:01.930 --> 36:06.950]  And so what you need is essentially a different naming system, as this gentleman said, to make this work.
[36:07.090 --> 36:16.690]  And then if you have to be storing it forward, then you can run something on a phone, which is really where it needs to be, is a machine that's constantly running.
[36:20.900 --> 36:21.380]  So...
[36:22.740 --> 36:23.220]  Yeah.
[36:23.220 --> 36:24.720]  So that...
[36:24.720 --> 36:29.420]  I don't know if we're recording it or whatever, but the point is that to...
[36:29.420 --> 36:37.960]  We need, like, another thing that is as ubiquitous as, like, DNS that is more friendly to Federation and could be run off a phone.
[36:38.220 --> 36:38.440]  Okay.
[36:38.680 --> 36:39.820]  I think that'd be awesome.
[36:40.500 --> 36:41.920]  Here and then here.
[36:46.100 --> 36:46.620]  Yeah.
[36:52.860 --> 36:53.420]  Yeah.
[36:53.460 --> 36:58.060]  So, you asked if people are doing research into protocols.
[36:58.460 --> 36:59.080]  I'm sorry.
[37:04.600 --> 37:05.300]  Mm-hmm.
[37:12.410 --> 37:13.350]  Oh, yeah.
[37:13.790 --> 37:14.690]  Well, I do think...
[37:14.690 --> 37:21.110]  So, Identica is building a suite of tools that some of the other decentralized services are also using.
[37:21.350 --> 37:32.830]  I think that, like, if there was a protocol, like, another DNS type of thing, that to have it work with all of the existing OAuth tool set would be really good.
[37:33.030 --> 37:36.630]  So, I can give everyone the link for the OAuth stuff if you want afterwards.
[37:38.110 --> 37:38.530]  Yeah.
[37:38.690 --> 37:48.710]  I do think that having decentralized services use a common protocol and common tools so that they can all talk to each other would be the way to go.
[37:48.890 --> 37:51.650]  And there are tools that are being built with some of the same stuff.
[37:51.830 --> 37:56.330]  So, like, Salmon is being used in a lot of different applications so far.
[37:56.330 --> 38:01.410]  And then the PubSubHubbub is another one that is being used in a lot of different applications so far.
[38:01.530 --> 38:04.770]  So, they are being built to kind of plug and play with each other.
[38:05.750 --> 38:06.630]  Is that...
[38:06.630 --> 38:07.690]  That's kind of what...
[38:07.690 --> 38:07.970]  Okay.
[38:08.170 --> 38:08.550]  Cool.
[38:08.770 --> 38:10.210]  And then over by the pool.
[38:10.330 --> 38:12.890]  I just wanted to mention two things.
[38:13.050 --> 38:14.730]  I think the search...
[38:17.140 --> 38:17.360]  Yeah.
[38:17.800 --> 38:18.060]  Yeah.
[38:21.880 --> 38:22.320]  Yeah.
[38:23.600 --> 38:24.040]  Yeah.
[38:24.260 --> 38:26.580]  That's why I said that that one's like kind of...
[38:26.580 --> 38:28.440]  There is something, but it's not...
[38:28.440 --> 38:30.800]  Like, people aren't super psyched to integrate it yet.
[38:30.800 --> 38:38.640]  So, I don't know if it needs to, like, optimize the existing decentralized search or if it might be too much work to do that.
[38:38.640 --> 38:39.720]  I think it's just...
[38:42.810 --> 38:43.490]  It's a number of things.
[38:43.650 --> 38:45.210]  Like, there's enough people...
[38:45.670 --> 38:46.110]  Oh.
[38:46.330 --> 38:48.530]  Who joined the network like that.
[38:48.610 --> 38:48.890]  Mm-hmm.
[38:49.950 --> 38:50.430]  Oh, okay.
[38:50.670 --> 38:51.470]  I mean, that's...
[38:51.470 --> 38:51.470]  I
[38:54.520 --> 38:55.120]  just...
[38:55.120 --> 38:56.020]  You might have said it.
[38:56.200 --> 38:57.060]  There's a...
[38:57.060 --> 38:59.220]  Who is creating micro-formats?
[38:59.940 --> 39:01.020]  One of them...
[39:01.020 --> 39:02.140]  It's like...
[39:02.140 --> 39:05.180]  Not waiting...
[39:05.180 --> 39:05.420]  Of expressing...
[39:07.060 --> 39:07.500]  Relationships...
[39:07.500 --> 39:07.720]  For example.
[39:08.020 --> 39:08.120]  Like...
[39:08.120 --> 39:08.540]  Oh.
[39:08.760 --> 39:09.380]  They call it...
[39:09.380 --> 39:10.280]  Mm-hmm.
[39:11.840 --> 39:12.280]  And...
[39:15.790 --> 39:16.590]  Uh...
[39:16.590 --> 39:17.590]  The micro-formats?
[39:17.790 --> 39:18.250]  Micro-formats.
[39:18.250 --> 39:20.750]  Like, is there any...
[39:20.750 --> 39:21.350]  Yeah.
[39:21.590 --> 39:22.430]  Sometimes that's true.
[39:22.550 --> 39:23.510]  And sometimes it's...
[39:23.510 --> 39:25.930]  It depends on the state of the current service.
[39:26.050 --> 39:27.020]  I'm gonna write that down, but...
[39:27.930 --> 39:28.390]  Uh...
[39:28.390 --> 39:28.410]  Uh...
[39:28.410 --> 39:29.250]  And then as far as...
[39:29.800 --> 39:33.000]  It hasn't been done perfectly.
[39:33.810 --> 39:36.710]  But there's people making an attempt to do that over DNS with...
[39:36.710 --> 39:37.530]  Yeah.
[39:37.530 --> 39:37.550]  Yeah.
[39:39.290 --> 39:40.710]  The problem is who you trust.
[39:40.990 --> 39:41.810]  Probably always...
[39:43.270 --> 39:43.730]  Right.
[39:45.510 --> 39:48.030]  Well, and the thing about the spam is...
[39:48.030 --> 39:48.830]  Uh...
[39:48.830 --> 39:52.950]  Something that works today may not work in a month.
[39:53.170 --> 39:56.790]  Because the way that we get spam is always changing.
[39:57.070 --> 40:00.490]  It's like a constant, you know, back and forth.
[40:00.790 --> 40:15.090]  So, as soon as we figure out that, you know, anything with this in the subject is spam, or this word is spam, or coming from Nigeria is spam, or whatever, then like it gets routed from somewhere else, or they put something else in the subject.
[40:15.090 --> 40:21.710]  So, it's like that has to be an ongoing system of pushing out, like, standards.
[40:21.930 --> 40:28.950]  So, it might be a subscription model, and you're right, then it would depend on who do you trust to subscribe to for spam.
[40:28.950 --> 40:30.830]  There are successful logs for that.
[40:31.610 --> 40:32.090]  Hmm.
[40:33.310 --> 40:34.430]  It doesn't deal directly with...
[40:42.310 --> 40:42.790]  Yeah.
[40:44.230 --> 40:44.710]  For...
[40:44.710 --> 40:45.330]  For...
[40:45.330 --> 40:48.890]  For the projects that I talked about, we'd be looking for a free software solution.
[40:49.110 --> 40:54.910]  And I don't mean necessarily free as in cost, but if it's proprietary, I don't think they'd be interested in integrating it.
[40:56.390 --> 40:57.850]  It is free software.
[40:57.850 --> 40:58.190]  Okay.
[40:58.390 --> 40:59.910]  I wasn't...
[41:04.020 --> 41:04.610]  I don't know.
[41:06.790 --> 41:08.380]  But everything else is premium.
[41:09.400 --> 41:09.830]  Okay.
[41:10.150 --> 41:10.770]  Oh, so it's...
[41:10.770 --> 41:10.920]  Yeah.
[41:11.070 --> 41:12.150]  It's got the premium thing.
[41:13.420 --> 41:13.860]  Yeah.
[41:14.630 --> 41:15.070]  So...
[41:15.070 --> 41:15.880]  Yeah.
[41:16.000 --> 41:16.690]  It's interesting.
[41:16.900 --> 41:23.000]  So, if they're running a business on that, we'd probably want to chat with them, rather than just grab it and fork it.
[41:23.790 --> 41:24.710]  But, yeah.
[41:25.000 --> 41:25.920]  No, I'll look that one up.
[41:27.750 --> 41:28.230]  They're...
[41:28.770 --> 41:29.900]  You know, they're...
[41:29.900 --> 41:34.310]  I'd be interested to find out, like, how it works under the hood and what it will work with.
[41:34.810 --> 41:40.900]  I know that, you know, depending on the project, there's always, like, what language is it in?
[41:40.900 --> 41:48.440]  And some people are very anti-PHP, and then other projects are very pro-PHP, and so it'd have to work correctly.
[41:48.650 --> 41:50.040]  The standards.
[41:55.000 --> 41:55.560]  The standards.
[42:02.930 --> 42:03.290]  Okay.
[42:04.030 --> 42:04.230]  Yeah.
[42:04.230 --> 42:04.670]  Yeah, awesome.
[42:04.950 --> 42:05.350]  No, thanks.
[42:05.470 --> 42:06.050]  I'm glad.
[42:06.250 --> 42:09.550]  I love, like, hearing about another project that I didn't know about.
[42:10.030 --> 42:10.930]  It's like...
[42:10.930 --> 42:14.590]  Marketing is not our specialty over here in free software, usually.
[42:14.870 --> 42:15.310]  So...
[42:15.310 --> 42:17.270]  I'm always happy to hear about other stuff.
[42:17.690 --> 42:19.530]  There's another question in the back here.
[42:20.070 --> 42:23.340]  So we're talking about...
[42:23.340 --> 42:23.500]  Uh-huh.
[42:23.680 --> 42:24.560]  The ability would
[42:43.680 --> 42:45.860]  be the purpose of all decentralization, right?
[42:45.960 --> 42:47.520]  Somebody could just go in without authorization.
[42:48.500 --> 42:50.440]  Yeah, there would be permissions.
[42:50.820 --> 42:51.520]  You would have to...
[42:51.520 --> 42:55.100]  Like, you would just subscribe to stuff if you want more stuff.
[42:55.280 --> 42:58.960]  Like, it would never be set up where it just pushes things to your machine.
[43:01.200 --> 43:02.000]  Is that...
[43:02.000 --> 43:02.220]  Yeah.
[43:02.400 --> 43:03.200]  Or do you want to clarify?
[43:03.200 --> 43:04.380]  You can clarify your question.
[43:05.040 --> 43:05.340]  Well,
[43:11.240 --> 43:12.000]  I guess that was just my question.
[43:12.040 --> 43:12.440]  Yeah.
[43:12.680 --> 43:14.380]  What exactly would they be serving?
[43:14.380 --> 43:15.120]  Yeah.
[43:17.300 --> 43:17.740]  Right.
[43:18.240 --> 43:18.680]  So...
[43:19.920 --> 43:20.360]  Yeah.
[43:20.580 --> 43:21.340]  In the...
[43:22.140 --> 43:29.860]  In the example of Media Goblin, which is the one I'm most familiar with, they'd be serving videos and images and maybe ASCII art if they want to.
[43:30.880 --> 43:35.500]  And then they would be able to set exactly how they want to share it.
[43:35.580 --> 43:37.340]  They could share it only by invite.
[43:37.480 --> 43:39.120]  They could share it with the entire Internet.
[43:39.340 --> 43:42.880]  They could share it only with a handful of people or with a group.
[43:42.880 --> 43:49.480]  I think one of the things that's really interesting in there would be to be able to customize to share it or type, like, a group.
[43:49.740 --> 44:01.280]  So, like, one of the examples that we think about when we're working on Media Goblin is that, like, you know, kids like to take pictures at elementary school of, like, the plant or the gerbil or whatever.
[44:01.280 --> 44:06.680]  And it would be great if they could automatically share with other elementary schools but not the entire Internet.
[44:07.160 --> 44:10.700]  So, you know, you don't want someone going, like, oh, hey, how's Larry doing?
[44:10.740 --> 44:12.040]  Like, some rando from the street.
[44:12.420 --> 44:13.900]  Where Larry is the gerbil.
[44:15.360 --> 44:16.160]  And so...
[44:16.160 --> 44:17.960]  So, anyway, there's a lot of...
[44:17.960 --> 44:25.780]  And, like, I think that being able to customize the way you share is actually, like, the most exciting part of having a decentralized system.
[44:26.440 --> 44:29.120]  It's that it's not, like, either everyone or no one.
[44:29.120 --> 44:31.720]  It could be much more finely controlled.
[44:32.880 --> 44:33.440]  So...
[44:33.440 --> 44:37.880]  And we're still working on the technical pieces of how to do all of those bits.
[44:38.160 --> 44:44.840]  So, you know, if you're super interested and you want to help out, let me know.
[44:45.900 --> 44:47.020]  I think...
[44:47.020 --> 44:47.720]  One here.
[44:48.000 --> 44:49.880]  And then I'll see how we're on time.
[44:50.060 --> 44:50.700]  Oh, we have a little time.
[44:50.860 --> 44:50.980]  Okay.
[44:52.020 --> 44:52.580]  Yeah.
[44:53.680 --> 44:54.480]  Retro share.
[44:54.900 --> 44:55.760]  Retro share?
[44:56.100 --> 44:56.400]  Yeah.
[45:12.920 --> 45:13.320]  Yeah.
[45:14.820 --> 45:31.080]  So, when I first started looking at the idea of decentralized social media stuff, we were, like, thinking and we had all these, like, you know, Alice and Bob and, you know, Charles and everybody on the whiteboard and trying to figure out how they would share.
[45:31.400 --> 45:39.040]  And we realized that a lot of folks had had the idea of, like, building social media on top of GPG or PGP.
[45:39.560 --> 45:42.400]  And it was kind of interesting.
[45:42.660 --> 45:46.700]  And all of them have, like, some of that same, like, it's not really very user-friendly.
[45:47.500 --> 45:49.920]  But, wow, they totally understand the algorithms.
[45:49.920 --> 45:51.080]  And it was so awesome.
[45:51.920 --> 45:53.020]  So, yeah.
[45:53.180 --> 45:55.660]  I mean, I'll look because they're, you know, I'm sure it's...
[45:55.660 --> 45:57.620]  That one's probably free software, too.
[45:57.900 --> 45:58.100]  And...
[45:58.100 --> 45:58.440]  Yeah.
[45:58.560 --> 45:58.820]  Awesome.
[45:59.680 --> 46:02.000]  What's cool about it is, like...
[46:05.990 --> 46:06.810]  Right.
[46:14.960 --> 46:15.480]  Right.
[46:15.700 --> 46:22.360]  So, it has the peer vouching kind of thing that PGP is, you know, sort of encapsulates.
[46:22.840 --> 46:23.280]  Okay.
[46:23.580 --> 46:23.960]  Cool.
[46:24.840 --> 46:27.760]  So, RetroShare, Microformats, and Snort.
[46:28.200 --> 46:29.020]  It's exciting.
[46:29.180 --> 46:30.560]  I always like to learn about new projects.
[46:30.560 --> 46:36.840]  Do people have any other questions or about formats or projects or things?
[46:37.160 --> 46:37.280]  Okay.
[46:37.800 --> 46:38.700]  Or comments, whatever.
[46:39.200 --> 46:39.420]  All right.
[46:39.960 --> 46:40.480]  Oh.
[46:40.680 --> 46:42.560]  Oh, in the back, behind the projector.
[46:42.820 --> 46:42.980]  Yeah.
[46:43.740 --> 46:44.520]  That's okay.
[46:50.160 --> 46:50.680]  Yeah.
[46:58.580 --> 46:59.100]  Yeah.
[47:11.770 --> 47:12.290]  Yeah.
[47:12.540 --> 47:12.960]  Yeah.
[47:16.160 --> 47:16.680]  Yeah.
[47:16.680 --> 47:16.750]  Yeah.
[47:17.060 --> 47:17.160]  Yeah.
[47:17.600 --> 47:18.120]  Yeah.
[47:18.120 --> 47:19.320]  Well, there's two pieces.
[47:19.320 --> 47:20.340]  There's the...
[47:20.340 --> 47:24.300]  What it feels like when they get over here to the decentralized area.
[47:24.640 --> 47:36.360]  And I suspect for most people, it feels like going from, like, a lovely, you know, velveteen sofa to, like, a crummy sort of broken folding chair.
[47:36.860 --> 47:39.660]  And so, that's less than ideal.
[47:39.960 --> 47:44.900]  The other thing is that their friends are still on the other services.
[47:46.830 --> 47:47.710]  So, yeah.
[47:47.960 --> 47:50.280]  So, it needs to happen in big piles.
[47:50.620 --> 47:53.200]  And it needs to be awesome when people get here.
[47:53.280 --> 48:11.580]  I think those two are kind of interrelated so that when they get to, like, the new thing, it might be that it has a different functionality or that we've done a good job of communicating, like, how much more awesome it is to control how you share or how much more awesome it is to customize the way your page looks or something like that.
[48:11.700 --> 48:14.600]  And it all really works and all works really great.
[48:14.780 --> 48:17.300]  So, then they go to their friend and they're like, yeah.
[48:17.560 --> 48:21.540]  Remember how I was the person who told you that Friendster was dumb and that we were all moving on?
[48:21.900 --> 48:23.380]  Like, I'm telling you again.
[48:23.380 --> 48:25.000]  We're all going over to Diaspora.
[48:25.250 --> 48:27.320]  So, like, it has to be like that, I think.
[48:28.600 --> 48:30.040]  Here and then over here.
[48:39.570 --> 48:40.230]  Mm-hmm.
[48:56.690 --> 48:57.570]  Mm-hmm.
[48:57.790 --> 48:58.030]  Mm-hmm.
[48:58.730 --> 48:59.390]  Mm-hmm.
[49:00.740 --> 49:11.370]  Mm-hmm.
[49:11.850 --> 49:12.290]  Yeah.
[49:15.130 --> 49:15.470]  Yeah.
[49:16.970 --> 49:17.410]  Yeah.
[49:18.550 --> 49:26.490]  No, I think being able, like, for people to be able to take their network with them or use a different thing on top would, there's a little work in that area.
[49:26.490 --> 49:29.050]  That might be a really good way to transition people.
[49:29.550 --> 49:30.870]  OTR is a really good example.
[49:31.030 --> 49:31.430]  OTR.
[49:34.500 --> 49:35.300]  Mm-hmm.
[49:36.880 --> 49:37.720]  Oh, okay.
[49:37.900 --> 49:42.800]  It's kind of a, it works across all of them.
[49:43.340 --> 49:44.460]  So, maybe that's a good sense.
[49:44.960 --> 49:45.280]  Cool.
[49:45.920 --> 49:49.020]  I think we had one over here and then one over here and then we might be done.
[49:50.380 --> 49:50.780]  Yeah.
[49:50.780 --> 49:50.860]  Yeah.
[49:51.200 --> 49:55.020]  I might do, I mean, I might have missed when you mentioned it since I was late.
[49:57.860 --> 49:58.920]  Oh, we did.
[49:59.340 --> 49:59.780]  Yeah.
[49:59.960 --> 50:00.120]  Oh, sorry.
[50:00.800 --> 50:01.240]  Briefly.
[50:08.360 --> 50:10.740]  Oh, we overloaded the impress.
[50:11.200 --> 50:11.440]  Okay.
[50:11.880 --> 50:13.880]  Anyway, I promise we mentioned Frendiga.
[50:14.760 --> 50:17.560]  Back here and then who, oh.
[50:18.080 --> 50:24.860]  Oh, well, I, wait, I know we haven't heard from you yet and then I think we can go, who, over where?
[50:25.540 --> 50:27.060]  Sorry, the light is like.
[50:29.040 --> 50:30.200]  You're under the light.
[50:30.500 --> 50:30.640]  Okay.
[50:31.380 --> 50:36.260]  Can we, yeah, I sit here and then whoever I can't see under the light.
[50:39.940 --> 50:40.500]  Yeah.
[50:41.940 --> 50:42.660]  Mm-hmm.
[50:48.610 --> 50:48.970]  Yeah.
[51:03.280 --> 51:03.820]  Cool.
[51:04.960 --> 51:16.320]  So, uh, use diaspora in parallel because, you know, if you're on more than one, and then you have different personalities and they both have their advantage.
[51:20.640 --> 51:20.980]  Cool.
[51:21.380 --> 51:26.740]  So, uh, use diaspora in parallel because it's better at meeting new people.
[51:27.220 --> 51:28.080]  Uh, awesome.
[51:28.420 --> 51:32.740]  And then, and then the person under the light and then I think I'm out of time, but I'll be kind of out there.
[51:33.300 --> 51:35.620]  For a second time.
[51:35.800 --> 51:36.080]  For a second time.
[51:36.080 --> 51:36.640]  Oh, sweet.
[51:36.840 --> 51:37.420]  For a second time.
[51:38.060 --> 51:38.520]  Sorry.
[51:45.660 --> 51:46.140]  Huh.
[52:01.060 --> 52:01.540]  Huh.
[52:03.200 --> 52:03.440]  Huh.
[52:04.000 --> 52:08.220]  So, is peer-to-peer in general on the decline because of general distrust is the question.
[52:08.820 --> 52:10.520]  Um, I don't know.
[52:10.520 --> 52:15.200]  So, um, yeah, BitTorrent, people use that.
[52:15.640 --> 52:22.720]  Um, I, I, uh, I'm past the part where I do any online dating, but I think people still do that.
[52:23.200 --> 52:23.980]  Uh, right?
[52:24.240 --> 52:29.340]  So, um, it's, uh, yeah, I don't, I don't know.
[52:29.560 --> 52:31.920]  I think, uh, I think it needs to be a certain way.
[52:32.020 --> 52:33.660]  It needs to be served up a certain way.
[52:33.840 --> 52:46.560]  And, and you kind of hit on it when you said, like, uh, you know, random street guy, which could be, like, it depends on whether, uh, that person shows up in a top hat and says, like, oh, let me help you over that puddle.
[52:46.700 --> 52:51.620]  Or whether it's, like, you know, um, and they smell like vomit.
[52:51.820 --> 52:58.180]  So, it's, like, I think it's presentation of the people you don't know and the, and the way the site looks.
[52:58.280 --> 53:06.080]  It has to look trustworthy as well as, uh, you know, if we're going to get people to use, uh, a service where they meet new people.
[53:06.080 --> 53:15.820]  So, uh, yeah, I don't know if I answered your, um, open-ended question, but, um, I hope that was thoughtful.
[53:16.140 --> 53:17.840]  So, um, thanks.
[53:18.040 --> 53:19.500]  I, we are out of time.
[53:19.820 --> 53:25.540]  Um, uh, you can email me if you like, uh, deb at gsimmiesproductions.com.
[53:25.540 --> 53:26.360]  Thank you.