[00:01.620 --> 00:07.760]  Quick note, comments, opinions, anything contained in this is mine alone.
[00:08.160 --> 00:12.140]  It doesn't represent any employer, friends, neighbors, colleagues, etc.
[00:13.520 --> 00:22.320]  Also, a quick warning, we're going to be talking about some elements related to chaos, crisis, trauma, stress cycles.
[00:22.820 --> 00:28.920]  So if you feel the need to get up, walk around, ground yourself, etc., please go ahead and do what you need to do.
[00:30.520 --> 00:37.180]  I'll be around after if you want to talk or if you want to get into any of the feedback that you might have, etc.
[00:39.620 --> 00:45.200]  And with that, I'll say this is the point where normally in a talk, someone's going to credentialize themselves.
[00:45.460 --> 00:53.280]  I am actually going to bypass that as much as I'd like to tell you a little bit about background and why I felt like this is a decent topic.
[00:54.280 --> 01:09.840]  One of the challenges in the moment that we live in is people immediately have a tendency to institute that initial bias as to do I or do I not agree with you, align with you politically, emotionally, background wise, etc.
[01:09.840 --> 01:19.540]  I'd love for you to try to approach this without that bias and draw that out as we move through the conversation.
[01:20.100 --> 01:34.520]  So I'm hoping that this is going to be useful for you in your roles, whether you lead people currently, whether you have hopes of doing that, or whether you are just an individual that lives and works among human beings.
[01:34.520 --> 01:36.280]  So with that, we'll dive in.
[01:37.380 --> 01:42.120]  So we're going to be talking about leadership and chaos and crisis and stress cycles.
[01:42.440 --> 01:51.540]  To be clear, talking about leaders and leadership, that leadership doesn't necessarily require that you have a rank or a title.
[01:52.340 --> 01:53.780]  Why talk through this?
[01:53.920 --> 01:59.980]  Hopefully, this becomes clear as we dive in here, because leadership can make all the difference in survivability.
[02:00.780 --> 02:03.540]  For some, leadership isn't a choice.
[02:03.760 --> 02:08.540]  You've had that foisted on you sometimes, and we extend that further.
[02:08.780 --> 02:11.760]  Some of us have people that we're responsible for.
[02:12.120 --> 02:16.320]  Children, elderly parents, partners, etc.
[02:17.240 --> 02:22.520]  Some of us have individuals that we're responsible for at work or in other areas.
[02:22.520 --> 02:28.980]  So, some of us are responsible for companies, organizations, teams, units, families, pets.
[02:29.440 --> 02:31.460]  At minimum, you're responsible for yourself.
[02:31.560 --> 02:33.080]  So hopefully, this will be useful.
[02:34.100 --> 02:35.580]  Now, one word of caution.
[02:35.580 --> 02:48.980]  If you are a dark triad individual, and we'll get into that a little bit further down, or a watch-the-world-burn type, please raise your hand now so we can inspect you a little bit more clearly.
[02:50.380 --> 02:51.160]  Just kidding.
[02:51.860 --> 02:55.640]  But two, if you are, this isn't going to make sense to you.
[02:55.800 --> 02:59.620]  Your worldview is not going to align with any of this.
[02:59.660 --> 03:03.960]  So, we can talk a little bit after if you happen to fall into that category.
[03:04.540 --> 03:15.780]  But, again, regardless of where you land on any continuum of us-them, so you've got people and things that you care about, and at least I hope that you do.
[03:17.280 --> 03:24.640]  So, it may feel like we've been in some sort of perpetual cycle of continuous crisis and turmoil for quite a while.
[03:24.840 --> 03:25.780]  Anybody feel like that?
[03:27.060 --> 03:27.540]  Okay.
[03:27.700 --> 03:29.460]  So, obviously, you are not alone.
[03:30.220 --> 03:45.360]  And if you work in any domain within information security, and I think this pretty much is in any domain and any alignment, you probably feel that a little more acutely and a little more as your reality.
[03:46.240 --> 03:54.360]  Some of that may have its roots in a 24-hour media cycle, or the connected nature of our lives, or the work that we do.
[03:54.720 --> 04:02.160]  But we don't have all the time to get into all of those aspects and the causes of why we feel that way.
[04:02.300 --> 04:03.080]  We'll get into some of it.
[04:03.220 --> 04:10.000]  So, we're going to be focusing more on what we're talking about as far as leadership and surviving in such times.
[04:10.900 --> 04:11.440]  All right.
[04:11.800 --> 04:19.120]  So, initially, part of my thought here was, hey, let's go back and do an analysis of different crises that we've all experienced.
[04:19.580 --> 04:21.780]  And I thought, you know what, that's not going to be constructive.
[04:22.060 --> 04:27.640]  Because, again, back to the politicization of things, everybody's got opinions and feelings on those pieces.
[04:27.640 --> 04:40.620]  So, when I talk about crisis, I'm going to reach back to a thing that Drexel University did years and years ago, where they started doing tabletops based on the zombie apocalypse.
[04:41.200 --> 04:49.320]  I know that sounds a little ridiculous, and this predates some of the renaissance of zombie movies, etc.
[04:49.320 --> 05:04.560]  But what it did was, it revealed that there were common things that a zombie apocalypse or an unnamed crisis would let bring to light, where people didn't have preconceived notions, you didn't have people that had domain expertise.
[05:05.020 --> 05:18.880]  It essentially created all the same stressors and all the same conditions and all of the same requirements as natural disasters, political movements, etc., etc., all right?
[05:19.040 --> 05:25.940]  So, when we're talking about crisis, you can feel comfortable picking your own or using the zombie apocalypse.
[05:28.560 --> 05:39.120]  Now, when we get into talking about stressors and stress cycles and these types of crisis, it doesn't really matter to a certain extent what those crises are.
[05:39.120 --> 05:47.140]  Again, I'm going to give you the zombie apocalypse just to give us a place to start that no one's experienced, unless somebody has experienced the zombie apocalypse, and then let's talk movies.
[05:49.360 --> 05:57.560]  What matters is that the reaction and the impact can be as varied as the causes.
[05:58.120 --> 06:03.180]  And what it takes to recover from those is going to be roughly the same.
[06:04.240 --> 06:21.040]  Regardless of what our involvement is, whether you are a first responder, whether you are the primary person involved in this crisis, whether you're just watching it on TV or you're hearing about it from friends, the origin, duration, type of our exposure,
[06:21.040 --> 06:23.140]  we still react to that crisis.
[06:23.560 --> 06:34.580]  So, a lot of that feeling that you have that, hey, we've been in this constant cycle, is that omnipresence of it in every aspect of what we do.
[06:34.580 --> 06:39.460]  And this is true, again, even if we're just watching it, if we're not first-hand participants.
[06:39.800 --> 06:43.500]  This is not to say that that makes it all equal.
[06:44.200 --> 06:50.360]  I'm not one to believe in the current way that people think about big T, little t trauma, if you will.
[06:50.480 --> 06:52.880]  That's misused in some ways.
[06:53.080 --> 06:59.200]  So, whatever the trauma is, whatever the stressor is for you, let's consider that that's real.
[06:59.200 --> 07:01.980]  And let's not try to put this in a hierarchical system.
[07:02.400 --> 07:02.840]  Okay?
[07:02.980 --> 07:04.840]  This is not really how big T, little t works.
[07:06.820 --> 07:23.260]  To compound this, over the years, we've built systems and practices that many in the room have either relied on, some of you have started leading, or have, shall we say, professionally, or as a human, grown up with these systems in place.
[07:23.260 --> 07:28.200]  We're talking about things like health care that's accessible.
[07:28.580 --> 07:29.900]  We're talking about DEI.
[07:30.060 --> 07:39.800]  We're talking about systems and processes that we've used to take care of, treat, and work with human beings, both professionally and personally.
[07:40.560 --> 07:54.420]  Programs that address not only those needs, but our preparedness, or resilience, or stability, but also we're built on foundations that focused on building better, stronger, more effective teams and individuals.
[07:55.640 --> 08:13.480]  For any of the potential outreach that you may ascribe to those programs, systemic approaches to focus not only on numbers, the dollars and cents, if you will, but also take into consideration, in fact, double down on the human factors, have been a tool in our arsenal.
[08:13.780 --> 08:22.040]  And in many cases, especially corporate and government, we don't have those at hand anymore to give us that kind of guidance.
[08:22.660 --> 08:24.240]  Those supports are no longer there.
[08:25.160 --> 08:34.560]  Given that, and given that we seem to be living in error when crisis, real or manufactured, come at us almost on a daily basis, what can we do and what must we do?
[08:36.200 --> 08:39.700]  So, let's talk a little bit about human beings and crisis and systems.
[08:40.780 --> 08:52.560]  Thinking back to the zombie apocalypse, what's really interesting in the research, and not just the zombie apocalypse, is the consistency of our understanding of how human beings and systems are impacted by chaos and crisis.
[08:52.800 --> 08:56.840]  Anybody ever lived through a couple of days snowstorm in the Northeast?
[08:57.360 --> 08:58.220]  What happens?
[08:58.520 --> 09:00.080]  Day one, it's a snow day.
[09:00.260 --> 09:01.560]  Everybody's having a great time.
[09:02.140 --> 09:04.340]  Day two, people can't get cigarettes.
[09:04.520 --> 09:05.700]  The bodegas are wiped out.
[09:05.820 --> 09:06.660]  You can't get food.
[09:06.860 --> 09:09.240]  Day three, again, it's snow.
[09:09.240 --> 09:10.080]  So, it melts.
[09:10.540 --> 09:12.700]  Day three, people are at each other's throats.
[09:13.020 --> 09:16.280]  So, human response is roughly the same.
[09:16.460 --> 09:33.780]  Regardless on your views on media, scientific research, faith, role of government, if the crisis is real, imagined, naturally occurring, fictional, the impact on humans and the world we live in is borne out in our experiences, behaviors, and responses.
[09:34.420 --> 09:42.620]  We'll get into this a little more as we move along, but what we're talking about here is and has been demonstrated for many of us more than once in our lifetime.
[09:43.080 --> 09:44.840]  Again, snowstorm, I think, is a great example.
[09:45.280 --> 09:46.420]  You know that it's going to melt.
[09:46.540 --> 09:47.600]  You know that it's going to resolve.
[09:47.780 --> 09:49.260]  You know you're not going to be stuck in it.
[09:50.020 --> 09:51.520]  We still react in the same way.
[09:52.200 --> 09:54.120]  For some people, this is their day-to-day.
[09:54.120 --> 09:58.500]  They have trauma-informed or trauma-driven lives.
[09:58.840 --> 10:04.580]  So, we'll encompass all of that as we go.
[10:05.060 --> 10:18.060]  Ultimately, the part that matters, as much as it does, is that human beings, as human beings, we cannot be our best in a world of constant fear, anxiety, violence, and only focusing on survival.
[10:20.020 --> 10:23.160]  So, we're going to talk a little bit about identifiable markers.
[10:23.160 --> 10:23.920]  Anybody familiar?
[10:25.500 --> 10:26.100]  All right.
[10:26.440 --> 10:26.880]  Outstanding.
[10:28.520 --> 10:36.640]  I thought I'd kind of give you a few that you might be familiar with yourself in order to think about how humans and how we react in crisis.
[10:36.940 --> 10:38.860]  And you'll see I've kind of called these out.
[10:39.840 --> 10:41.740]  Fight, flight, fawn, freeze.
[10:42.120 --> 10:43.600]  I think everybody's familiar with this.
[10:43.720 --> 10:46.120]  Some of us learned it initially as fight or flight.
[10:46.500 --> 10:47.800]  This has been kind of moved.
[10:47.960 --> 10:50.760]  This is, hey, in that initial impact, what do you do?
[10:50.860 --> 10:51.880]  What does your body do?
[10:51.880 --> 11:00.880]  You know, do you, do you, your adrenaline rush goes, your heart rate goes up, how you move and how you react.
[11:01.160 --> 11:03.020]  So, hypervigilance.
[11:03.300 --> 11:05.000]  Some of us do this all the time.
[11:05.220 --> 11:07.380]  It's just the nature of information security.
[11:07.860 --> 11:12.700]  So, emotional dysregulation, cognitive disruption, and somatic responses.
[11:13.040 --> 11:16.520]  The human being, as human beings.
[11:16.700 --> 11:23.180]  We have a exceptionally good survival system that reacts to stressors.
[11:23.740 --> 11:34.000]  What's interesting is, for a lot of, a lot of research, and a lot of the time that we've, we've looked at this, is, we've seen this as a glitch.
[11:34.480 --> 11:38.960]  When this system is working really, really well, we experience all of these things.
[11:38.960 --> 11:39.460]  Why?
[11:39.760 --> 12:00.460]  Because our brain shifts into a mode where we're reacting to whatever that threat is, and we shut down all sorts of things like, I don't know, digestion, cognitive thought, art, music, literature, et cetera, to focus on surviving, on reacting, and getting ourselves back to safety at some point.
[12:01.500 --> 12:05.660]  Anybody aware of what part of the brain this typically happens in?
[12:06.320 --> 12:07.440]  Go ahead and shout it out.
[12:08.460 --> 12:09.780]  Yeah, the amygdala.
[12:09.980 --> 12:10.100]  Right.
[12:10.540 --> 12:13.180]  So, does the amygdala know complex math?
[12:13.860 --> 12:16.020]  Can you teach the amygdala the alphabet?
[12:16.440 --> 12:16.880]  No.
[12:17.000 --> 12:19.480]  The amygdala has some very basic functions.
[12:19.700 --> 12:21.240]  It doesn't do a whole lot.
[12:21.420 --> 12:34.180]  So, when we start talking about cognitive function, we start talking about decision making, we start talking about the things that, that really, in some ways, make us human, that's not the amygdala.
[12:34.300 --> 12:37.520]  The amygdala takes over and drives a lot of that behavior.
[12:37.980 --> 12:48.300]  So, we need to find ways of acknowledging and utilizing that system, acknowledging that, hey, it's working the way that it needs to, but moving outside of that.
[12:49.420 --> 12:59.060]  So, one of the things that I thought was really kind of fascinating, and there's a great book, I have it referenced, along with a bunch of others at the end, is a book called Deep Survival.
[12:59.060 --> 13:05.960]  And one of the questions that had always fascinated me was, what makes the difference between people that survive and people that don't?
[13:06.440 --> 13:22.160]  And the initial reaction, your initial, you know, perception of who's going to survive is on physical strength, is on technical skill, is on some of that, you know, do you have the weapons and tools that you need?
[13:23.020 --> 13:35.660]  What's really interesting, and in his book, Gonzalez points out, he says, it's actually emotional regulation, mental flexibility, and self-awareness that make a difference as to who survives crisis and emergency.
[13:36.720 --> 13:42.820]  What's counterintuitive is that experts, in some cases, often die when novices survive.
[13:43.360 --> 13:48.680]  Not because they lack knowledge, but because their overconfidence blinds them to the actual dangers.
[13:49.480 --> 13:52.540]  Survivors tend to have certain characteristics.
[13:52.860 --> 13:55.580]  They're humble, they're curious, and they're adaptable.
[13:55.820 --> 13:57.500]  We're going to come back to adaptability.
[13:57.800 --> 14:01.740]  They don't cling to plans, they respond to reality as it unfolds.
[14:01.920 --> 14:15.480]  In essence, it's not the strongest or necessarily the smartest that survive, it's the ones that stay present, that recalibrate, that keep their minds open, and sometimes that's where that expertise actually lies.
[14:15.700 --> 14:18.140]  So survival isn't about strength, it's about mindset.
[14:20.720 --> 14:38.160]  So looking over this list and the few things that I've highlighted here, what are some of the things, like if you looked at this as a skill set and a job description, what other roles would you say would jump out at you with these same traits?
[14:41.200 --> 14:41.800]  Anybody?
[14:44.990 --> 14:45.510]  Marketing.
[14:46.430 --> 14:47.030]  That's good.
[14:47.210 --> 14:47.490]  Marketing.
[14:47.670 --> 14:47.890]  Excellent.
[14:48.650 --> 14:57.450]  Really, what I see here, so looking at resilience, flexibility, optimism, courage, assertiveness, purpose and meaning, these are all leadership traits.
[14:57.630 --> 15:11.210]  These are all the things that if you were to do a search of, oh, say, a random 10,000 job descriptions for leaders, managers, chief executives, etc., these are going to be the things that are requirements to lead other human beings.
[15:13.610 --> 15:14.110]  All right.
[15:14.350 --> 15:15.310]  So where do we start?
[15:15.850 --> 15:16.190]  All right.
[15:16.370 --> 15:18.450]  Now, a little bit of a warning.
[15:18.890 --> 15:20.690]  I want to do a little bit of an experiment here.
[15:21.610 --> 15:23.990]  And I want to just give you a little taste of human response.
[15:25.210 --> 15:26.850]  Apologies if this stirs anything up.
[15:28.530 --> 15:36.250]  If you're the kind of the person that's going to cover their eyes in a horror movie, etc., now might be the time to tune out for a minute.
[15:38.470 --> 15:43.870]  So I want you to take a quick moment, make a note, just a mental note of how you're feeling right now.
[15:44.030 --> 15:44.530]  Are you hungry?
[15:44.690 --> 15:45.270]  Are you tired?
[15:45.490 --> 15:45.990]  Are you bored?
[15:46.130 --> 15:46.670]  I hope not.
[15:46.830 --> 15:47.910]  But if you are, that's fine.
[15:48.970 --> 15:50.650]  And we're going to dive into a moment.
[15:50.850 --> 15:51.170]  All right?
[15:52.770 --> 15:53.130]  Excellent.
[15:54.410 --> 15:56.010]  I want you to focus on this image.
[15:58.670 --> 15:59.490]  Something's not right.
[16:00.050 --> 16:01.030]  You feel it.
[16:02.310 --> 16:03.810]  Low hum beneath the surface.
[16:04.310 --> 16:05.410]  Shift in the air.
[16:06.130 --> 16:07.430]  Silence that's too quiet.
[16:07.890 --> 16:09.010]  You look around.
[16:09.770 --> 16:11.730]  People are moving, but not fast enough.
[16:12.550 --> 16:13.630]  Eyes are darting.
[16:14.490 --> 16:15.510]  Hands are trembling.
[16:15.870 --> 16:17.610]  You hear a siren in the distance.
[16:17.970 --> 16:19.650]  Or is that just in your head?
[16:20.410 --> 16:21.990]  You knew this was going to happen.
[16:22.700 --> 16:26.270]  It's real and happening, and you can feel it all around you.
[16:26.890 --> 16:28.490]  You see someone freeze.
[16:29.470 --> 16:30.970]  Someone drops their phone.
[16:31.630 --> 16:32.630]  Someone's crying.
[16:32.950 --> 16:33.710]  Someone's shouting.
[16:33.950 --> 16:35.890]  But no one is listening.
[16:36.430 --> 16:40.190]  It's all falling apart, and there's nothing you can do about it.
[16:42.390 --> 16:43.330]  How do you feel?
[16:44.930 --> 16:46.290]  A little anxious, maybe?
[16:46.570 --> 16:47.050]  A little tense?
[16:47.930 --> 16:48.650]  All right.
[16:48.650 --> 16:52.990]  What I want you to try, and I'm sorry to have you put you through that.
[16:53.330 --> 16:55.010]  Hopefully you got a little bit of a feeling there.
[16:55.290 --> 16:59.610]  I want you to take a long, slow, deep breath, and I want you to do what we call box breathing.
[17:00.590 --> 17:03.850]  I want you to inhale for four seconds.
[17:04.950 --> 17:08.130]  And I want you to imagine while you're doing this tracing a box.
[17:09.090 --> 17:10.770]  So inhale for four seconds.
[17:12.690 --> 17:14.210]  Hold it for four seconds.
[17:16.250 --> 17:18.290]  Let it out for four seconds.
[17:20.510 --> 17:22.290]  Bring it back and repeat.
[17:24.010 --> 17:24.890]  How are you feeling?
[17:26.190 --> 17:27.290]  Hopefully a little bit better.
[17:28.190 --> 17:33.630]  Now, if you're comfortable, I want you to lock eyes with somebody else in the audience.
[17:35.090 --> 17:40.170]  I want you to look at them, and I just want you to nod once, up and down, just affirmative.
[17:40.690 --> 17:42.870]  And if you want, you can say, it's okay.
[17:46.720 --> 17:47.380]  Thank you.
[17:48.340 --> 17:49.440]  Now, how do you feel?
[17:51.560 --> 17:52.440]  Everybody doing okay?
[17:53.380 --> 17:53.940]  All right.
[17:54.200 --> 17:57.200]  I hope you'll forgive the demonstration, but I wanted to illustrate two points.
[17:57.440 --> 18:01.340]  One, it doesn't take much for us to start responding.
[18:01.500 --> 18:04.180]  There are literally thousands of exercises that are available.
[18:04.340 --> 18:05.300]  These are breathing.
[18:05.420 --> 18:08.540]  I am a big fan of, and it's one of the first things that we teach people.
[18:10.960 --> 18:16.180]  Secondly, there are some tools that we can employ to help us, and connection, that connection with other people.
[18:16.380 --> 18:20.420]  Even that connection, meeting eyes, nodding, letting somebody know that it's okay.
[18:20.500 --> 18:21.840]  It's huge.
[18:22.360 --> 18:28.760]  I'm not saying that breathing and connection solve for all of the things, but it is a place to start.
[18:30.240 --> 18:36.080]  So, when that stress cycle kicks in, and humans are overwhelmed, they often look for guidance.
[18:36.380 --> 18:38.080]  People often don't know what to do.
[18:38.080 --> 18:44.580]  And when that chaos raises their hands, and things go wildly wrong, people start to look for a leader.
[18:45.300 --> 18:47.140]  You may find yourself with no alternative.
[18:47.340 --> 18:49.000]  You may find yourself in that spot.
[18:49.340 --> 18:52.760]  Or you may find that you're yourself looking to take action.
[18:52.760 --> 18:56.900]  You need to do something to survive and outlive that crisis.
[18:58.280 --> 19:03.160]  Leaders can have a tremendous effect on people, okay?
[19:03.580 --> 19:05.260]  In those moments of crisis.
[19:05.560 --> 19:09.840]  But there's safe leadership and unsafe leadership.
[19:10.480 --> 19:16.080]  Those moments often, and I think everybody's probably heard it, with every crisis comes what?
[19:17.300 --> 19:18.360]  Opportunity, right?
[19:18.820 --> 19:19.020]  Opportunity, right?
[19:19.020 --> 19:22.080]  So, opportunity to do good, opportunity to do bad.
[19:23.480 --> 19:29.160]  So, one of the first things that we need to learn is, how do we evaluate our leaders in the midst of crisis?
[19:30.620 --> 19:34.940]  So, unfortunately, leadership and the impact of leadership is often evaluated in retrospect.
[19:35.280 --> 19:37.380]  Body count doesn't happen until long after.
[19:37.380 --> 19:45.960]  Some of the crisis that we deal with don't always come down to lives, but ineffective leadership often results in consequences that outlive the leaders in question.
[19:46.500 --> 19:49.700]  Short-term, long-term impact can be almost immeasurable.
[19:50.240 --> 19:58.640]  That said, due to politicization, recent current events, I'm not going to go back into leadership examples as much as I would really love to.
[19:59.840 --> 20:03.620]  But you can evaluate based on what I'm saying, based on your own experience.
[20:03.620 --> 20:06.400]  So, anybody remember stranger danger?
[20:07.480 --> 20:12.100]  So, the problem with stranger danger is it very much said, oh, people that you know are what?
[20:13.060 --> 20:14.860]  People that you don't know are?
[20:15.380 --> 20:17.460]  Is that really the truth?
[20:17.840 --> 20:18.440]  No.
[20:18.800 --> 20:19.400]  Right.
[20:19.640 --> 20:28.760]  So, what we've moved beyond between good leader, bad leader, is looking for those identifiable markers again.
[20:28.760 --> 20:33.080]  Looking for, shall we say, safe adults and unsafe adults.
[20:33.260 --> 20:35.260]  Or safe leaders and unsafe leaders.
[20:37.480 --> 20:40.740]  So, let's talk about authoritarianism.
[20:41.120 --> 20:49.500]  One of the things that happens in a crisis is oftentimes people expect that the person that stands up and says, you go do this, is the leader.
[20:50.180 --> 20:54.880]  Is that the best leadership style to handle crisis?
[20:56.120 --> 20:57.460]  In effect, no.
[20:57.720 --> 21:01.200]  It can create more issues than you might think.
[21:01.460 --> 21:05.940]  You might think that purely authoritarian response fits chaos.
[21:06.120 --> 21:08.180]  In some degree, there are parts of it that are helpful.
[21:08.480 --> 21:10.820]  But overall, it can cause more harm than good.
[21:10.960 --> 21:13.880]  What we really need is a more adaptive leadership style.
[21:14.180 --> 21:18.540]  And I'm going to give you some examples of that as we kind of move.
[21:18.540 --> 21:28.500]  And you'll see, in the phases of a crisis, authoritarian only really works effectively for part of that first phase.
[21:28.680 --> 21:40.760]  But as we move towards recovery, as we move towards moving our people towards not only that moment but survival and then thriving, a purely authoritarian approach fails.
[21:42.720 --> 21:48.140]  So you've got to ask, why do unsafe leaders foster chaos?
[21:51.060 --> 21:59.340]  There's an ugly truth that some so-called leaders don't really want us to move beyond chaos and keeping humans they have influence over in that stress cycle.
[21:59.420 --> 22:02.760]  There are benefits to it to keep them overwhelmed.
[22:04.160 --> 22:06.100]  And there are a variety of drivers.
[22:06.320 --> 22:10.140]  There are individual drivers, strategic, some persistent drivers.
[22:10.660 --> 22:12.800]  Chaos can be a great forge for human development.
[22:13.860 --> 22:24.960]  But as we look at our leaders and we think about what their motivation is and what they have to gain, it can kind of give us a clue as to why we're stuck in some of those cycles.
[22:24.960 --> 22:29.920]  So I'll give you some of those, say, importance and sign or identifiable markers.
[22:31.940 --> 22:39.840]  If you look at our phrases, things you might hear, and again, if it helps, think about this as parenting as well.
[22:40.100 --> 22:40.840]  Just do what I say.
[22:43.120 --> 22:44.300]  Think about the phrases.
[22:44.880 --> 22:46.160]  Think about their behaviors.
[22:47.340 --> 22:49.900]  Think about what it reveals about the person utilizing them.
[22:50.960 --> 22:52.180]  What kind of leader is this?
[22:54.440 --> 22:55.040]  Anybody?
[22:56.000 --> 22:56.600]  Yeah.
[22:57.220 --> 22:57.980]  Purely authoritarian.
[22:58.480 --> 22:59.280]  Do what I say.
[22:59.460 --> 22:59.860]  Shut up.
[23:00.840 --> 23:02.080]  Do what I'm telling you.
[23:03.800 --> 23:04.640]  Part two.
[23:07.940 --> 23:09.000]  Calm body language.
[23:09.580 --> 23:10.180]  Frameworks.
[23:10.440 --> 23:11.820]  Encouraging others to speak.
[23:12.100 --> 23:13.260]  Minimal reactive gestures.
[23:14.720 --> 23:17.040]  So, this is a more adaptive leader.
[23:17.340 --> 23:20.300]  So, this fits in with a much more stoic model.
[23:22.280 --> 23:24.380]  Now, I'm going to call out one differently.
[23:24.940 --> 23:30.080]  This model is going to be a little more functional for what we're talking about as we move through crisis.
[23:30.340 --> 23:34.460]  But I want to call out very quickly a dark triad that I mentioned before.
[23:34.460 --> 23:43.220]  When we talk about motivation, when we talk about unsafe leadership, these are people that you probably wouldn't trust babysitting your dog.
[23:43.220 --> 23:44.480]  Never mind children.
[23:44.780 --> 23:45.420]  Never mind.
[23:45.640 --> 23:45.780]  Never mind.
[23:45.780 --> 23:46.400]  Oh, I don't know.
[23:46.980 --> 23:47.740]  Driving your car.
[23:48.320 --> 23:49.520]  Steering a ship of state.
[23:50.500 --> 23:56.400]  Combining things like narcissism, Machiavellianism, pure psychopathy.
[23:57.200 --> 24:06.040]  So, behaviors that the leadership that they exist is not about the people that they are responsible for.
[24:06.160 --> 24:06.600]  Who's it about?
[24:08.080 --> 24:08.880]  It's about them.
[24:09.760 --> 24:15.980]  So, when you run into that, when you see these markers, my suggestion, run.
[24:16.180 --> 24:17.400]  Very, very fast.
[24:17.880 --> 24:22.180]  I don't have to give you a list of who some of these people are historically.
[24:22.600 --> 24:25.180]  History is resplendent with this type of leaders.
[24:25.180 --> 24:30.540]  And I wish we had a different name or designation for them than leader, because I think they poisoned the name leader.
[24:31.140 --> 24:33.320]  But you know who they are without me calling them out.
[24:33.660 --> 24:41.880]  And the impact and destruction of pain and suffering that they've inflicted on humans, especially humans that they were responsible for, is immeasurable.
[24:42.660 --> 24:43.480]  So, what do we do?
[24:44.060 --> 24:45.400]  We want to build better leaders.
[24:48.580 --> 25:04.100]  So, I always kind of visualize the role of a leader is to calm in a moment and point at a distant shore with people that are there, even if they can't see that shore, and make sure that people are moving forward.
[25:04.400 --> 25:17.460]  That people have hope, that people have the tools they need, that they have the air cover that they need, that they have the motivation, and the community, and the belief that they can at least get themselves out of the condition that they're in.
[25:19.640 --> 25:21.100]  Now, here's a problem.
[25:22.000 --> 25:26.740]  As leaders, and again, I'm going to call out Simon Sinek's Eaters Eat Last.
[25:27.440 --> 25:34.100]  As leaders, we often have to place those folks ahead of us, right?
[25:34.520 --> 25:35.420]  That is essential.
[25:35.620 --> 25:37.400]  That is part of what I'm calling out here.
[25:37.400 --> 25:40.100]  But we also have to make sure that we take care of ourselves.
[25:40.520 --> 25:47.280]  So, similar to survivor guilt, that guilt of a leader where I can't sleep because I can't take a break.
[25:49.500 --> 25:50.800]  So, anybody a lifeguard?
[25:51.060 --> 25:52.300]  Anybody do lifeguard training?
[25:52.800 --> 25:53.980]  It's the first thing they teach you.
[25:54.480 --> 25:56.120]  Don't jump in the water, right?
[25:56.580 --> 25:57.520]  So, exactly.
[25:57.960 --> 26:01.280]  So, but they teach you before that moment comes up.
[26:01.440 --> 26:01.600]  Why?
[26:01.780 --> 26:02.580]  Because we've got to prepare.
[26:02.800 --> 26:06.840]  So, as leaders, the first thing that we need to do is understand how we work.
[26:06.840 --> 26:11.060]  That we are as susceptible to those responses as our teams.
[26:11.280 --> 26:15.380]  We need to build those skill sets in advance of those things happening.
[26:15.600 --> 26:19.640]  We need to know how much sleep can I get by on when I absolutely need to.
[26:20.200 --> 26:27.480]  So, and we need to start preparing our teams for it because you don't go by a fire extinguisher while the fire is raging.
[26:29.720 --> 26:32.780]  So, some basics to get us started leading in a crisis.
[26:33.420 --> 26:35.480]  So, stay calm, avoid panic.
[26:38.000 --> 26:41.680]  Those of us that work in information security, I think we have a different tolerance for panic.
[26:43.280 --> 26:44.440]  I think you need to.
[26:44.440 --> 26:44.480]  That's true.
[26:44.800 --> 26:48.340]  It's kind of funny working with folks that are not, where they're like, oh my...
[26:48.340 --> 26:49.380]  Well, I won't get into that.
[26:49.740 --> 26:51.380]  So, communication is essential.
[26:52.760 --> 26:54.140]  And clear communication.
[26:54.640 --> 26:57.600]  Transparency, clear communication, timely communication.
[26:58.460 --> 26:59.340]  Absolutely critical.
[26:59.340 --> 27:07.800]  So, accepting reality and acting decisively when you've seen that reality shift.
[27:08.260 --> 27:10.480]  Maintain humor and humility.
[27:12.220 --> 27:14.800]  Help others stay focused and organized.
[27:15.300 --> 27:17.440]  And adapt plans when conditions change.
[27:17.720 --> 27:20.740]  There's a great model from Disruptive Leadership Institute.
[27:20.740 --> 27:22.120]  I've got links up for this.
[27:22.280 --> 27:24.580]  The crisis model, that helps this model.
[27:24.700 --> 27:26.700]  There are others as well.
[27:26.700 --> 27:33.020]  But, if you can look at these and go, hey, can I do these things?
[27:33.500 --> 27:35.920]  What's great about this, though?
[27:36.140 --> 27:37.920]  Do you need this just in a crisis?
[27:39.440 --> 27:39.920]  No.
[27:40.020 --> 27:41.360]  This should be part of your day-to-day.
[27:41.920 --> 27:43.900]  This should be part of your daily practice.
[27:45.700 --> 27:58.960]  We also need to check ourselves, stay self-aware, and looking for these markers in ourselves and in the leaders around you.
[27:59.300 --> 28:05.520]  And, if you really want to take it to its natural extension, train your teams to look for this.
[28:06.740 --> 28:12.020]  One of the greatest things that I ever had happen, we were on a weekend, nobody had gotten any sleep.
[28:12.520 --> 28:15.840]  One of my team came up to me and they're like, why don't you go take a nap?
[28:16.500 --> 28:17.420]  We got this.
[28:18.220 --> 28:28.220]  So, I resisted, pushed back, but it was, it was one of the most positive impacts that I've had with the team, that they felt trusted and I got some sleep.
[28:28.220 --> 28:32.840]  And when it came time to talk to the client, I was a little fresher than they were.
[28:36.840 --> 28:54.720]  And remember that, well, having these and this works great, but I wouldn't be honest and this wouldn't be a hacking conference if I didn't call out what happens when all else fails.
[28:55.640 --> 29:01.380]  So, there are some points where it doesn't matter how prepared you are.
[29:01.580 --> 29:03.460]  It doesn't matter how common-centered you are.
[29:03.460 --> 29:06.060]  It doesn't matter how strong your team is.
[29:06.220 --> 29:15.500]  Sometimes the opposition, the crisis, especially human-controlled in some ways, outguns you completely.
[29:16.120 --> 29:28.180]  So, you need to be able to adapt and make decisions and take action that doesn't expose you and doesn't expose your team to further risk.
[29:28.180 --> 29:31.980]  Anybody familiar with James Scott, Weapons of the Week?
[29:35.200 --> 29:45.180]  So, we'll come back to, with this, there are things that you can do to not capitulate, to not let crisis roll you.
[29:45.780 --> 29:49.440]  Slow things down, push back slowly, be a little more efficient.
[29:50.340 --> 29:52.520]  You know, sabotage, etc.
[29:52.860 --> 29:57.800]  Hack, teach people tools, disrupt, maintain your OPSEC.
[29:58.160 --> 30:01.780]  As a leader, again, your responsibility is to your people, right?
[30:03.700 --> 30:07.640]  But, absent that, building your toolkit.
[30:08.460 --> 30:11.660]  So, mindset, absolutely critical.
[30:12.100 --> 30:14.160]  Self-awareness, absolutely critical.
[30:14.160 --> 30:23.700]  So, you need to have an examination of yourself, your strengths, your weaknesses, areas that you can work on, your tone, your communication skills, etc.
[30:25.260 --> 30:29.100]  So, your values-driven decision-making.
[30:29.540 --> 30:33.520]  Your ability to build psychological safety and build trust.
[30:34.260 --> 30:42.520]  Now, I'm a social engineer, so you can tweak and play with psychological safety, and you can tweak with building trust.
[30:42.740 --> 30:48.960]  But, as you're building teams, I recommend a more genuine and transparent approach to them.
[30:50.320 --> 30:52.420]  Skill development, scenario practice.
[30:52.980 --> 30:55.900]  So, I think many of us need tabletops on a regular basis.
[30:56.640 --> 31:03.200]  How you do things in an emergency should not be completely different than how you work day-to-day.
[31:03.860 --> 31:14.940]  Practices that are going to make all the difference in the world in a crisis, in a stress scenario, are the things that you've practiced and done a thousand times, where you don't have to shift.
[31:16.140 --> 31:17.440]  So, systems thinking.
[31:18.120 --> 31:21.320]  And then, resilience and recovery.
[31:22.060 --> 31:25.740]  Knowing that there is a way to get there.
[31:25.880 --> 31:26.700]  Now, this can be hard.
[31:26.940 --> 31:28.340]  This can take a lot of time.
[31:29.180 --> 31:31.100]  Anybody do disaster recovery?
[31:31.300 --> 31:34.740]  Anybody come out of a remediation weekend, post-breach, etc.
[31:35.460 --> 31:36.260]  Sucks, right?
[31:37.420 --> 31:40.360]  So, if you got a good plan, it sucks a little less.
[31:40.820 --> 31:44.580]  If you're prepared for it, it's a little easier and you kind of get there.
[31:44.740 --> 31:53.680]  So, if you build it again into your thinking as you're building those teams and let your teams know that part of what you're building towards is that resiliency, you're going to be in a better spot.
[31:54.980 --> 32:03.600]  But, kind of coming back to what do you do when we don't have systems and processes and programs in place?
[32:04.040 --> 32:06.440]  Well, we've got to take this down to a grassroots level.
[32:07.340 --> 32:09.180]  Take this down to one-to-one.
[32:09.180 --> 32:24.320]  So, instead of doing large meetings where you may, kind of thinking back to the weapons of the week aspect, where you may expose yourself, where you may create some more trouble for yourself or for your teams or for the people that you care about or you're working with,
[32:24.500 --> 32:27.100]  bring it down to a one-to-one level.
[32:27.600 --> 32:31.020]  Bring it down to a small meeting level where you know who you're talking to.
[32:32.900 --> 32:34.700]  Focus on that psychological safety.
[32:35.140 --> 32:40.040]  Psychological safety is or should be much easier to establish one-to-one.
[32:41.400 --> 32:43.940]  You can look for other different...other cues.
[32:44.240 --> 32:46.040]  You can...you can be personally committed.
[32:46.220 --> 32:47.220]  Is it going to take you more time?
[32:47.360 --> 32:47.780]  Absolutely.
[32:49.680 --> 32:51.260]  But, highly worth it.
[32:51.980 --> 32:54.800]  Inclusive behaviors without labeling the program.
[32:56.300 --> 33:02.900]  Spend a little extra time in thinking, you know, hey, when I'm setting up these meetings or when I'm pulling people in or I'm inviting people to these things.
[33:03.300 --> 33:08.280]  Am I being inclusive or, again, essentially checking some of your bias and checking some of your behaviors?
[33:08.820 --> 33:11.240]  So, invest in emotional intelligence.
[33:12.060 --> 33:13.880]  So, build feedback loops.
[33:15.140 --> 33:17.580]  Cultivate purpose, belonging, and a shared identity.
[33:18.000 --> 33:26.700]  So, it's harder to let people feel like they're part of a team when you can't talk to the whole team, but you can still establish that, and these are going to be critical.
[33:28.180 --> 33:29.540]  Building those better teams.
[33:30.500 --> 33:32.000]  So, embrace vulnerability.
[33:33.060 --> 33:35.680]  Again, lots of things that are out there on it.
[33:35.800 --> 33:38.160]  But, yeah, I'm feeling a little stressed myself.
[33:38.780 --> 33:45.800]  I'm not getting sleep the way I want to, but I am doing these things to work towards it, and I can show you how to do that.
[33:47.340 --> 33:48.900]  So, inclusive and diverse.
[33:49.420 --> 33:50.640]  So, peer support.
[33:50.640 --> 33:57.040]  If you're building truly resilient, capable teams, they eventually get to the point where they don't need you.
[33:57.380 --> 33:58.540]  That's part of the job.
[33:58.840 --> 34:09.860]  I think sometimes we've forgotten that as we train leaders, that we're trying to work ourselves out of that, where they can depend on each other first and then come to you when they have exhausted their other pieces.
[34:10.720 --> 34:11.860]  Celebrate those successes.
[34:12.340 --> 34:13.500]  Grow from failure.
[34:15.060 --> 34:16.680]  Encourage and reward curiosity.
[34:17.160 --> 34:26.860]  One of my favorite things is, as you'll see, that encouragement to ask not only for, hey, I don't know what that acronym means.
[34:27.920 --> 34:30.620]  I don't know what, I don't know how to do this.
[34:30.840 --> 34:32.480]  I mean, it's part of why we're all here.
[34:32.600 --> 34:34.000]  So, it's kind of preaching to the choir.
[34:34.560 --> 34:36.460]  So, and then open communication.
[34:38.900 --> 34:40.360]  Really, it'll come down to this.
[34:41.380 --> 34:51.620]  So, whether you're a leader in name, you have people that you're responsible to, you've got a rank that you're responsible for, lead from where you stand.
[34:52.020 --> 34:53.420]  Even if you're an individual.
[34:54.340 --> 34:59.260]  Individuals often are better leaders than the leaders that we've put in those roles.
[35:00.340 --> 35:01.620]  Don't wait to be led.
[35:02.240 --> 35:07.560]  So, I spend a lot of time in my life waiting for somebody to step up and take that role.
[35:07.980 --> 35:09.200]  It can be terrifying.
[35:09.200 --> 35:10.560]  I know it's not everybody's bag.
[35:10.720 --> 35:13.660]  But leadership doesn't necessarily mean standing up on a podium.
[35:13.680 --> 35:14.800]  It can be small.
[35:15.160 --> 35:17.220]  In many cases, that's the best form.
[35:17.940 --> 35:20.200]  So, and, demand better leaders.
[35:21.140 --> 35:23.480]  Don't accept our dark triad leaders.
[35:23.620 --> 35:26.480]  Our leaders that don't have our best intention in mind.
[35:27.220 --> 35:28.060]  Just stop.
[35:30.360 --> 35:32.780]  Essentially, be the leader that you're waiting for.
[35:33.440 --> 35:34.600]  Take the time.
[35:35.160 --> 35:36.180]  Grow into those roles.
[35:36.420 --> 35:37.220]  Challenge yourself.
[35:37.600 --> 35:38.140]  Step that up.
[35:39.040 --> 35:41.480]  All crises aren't gonna go away.
[35:42.840 --> 35:44.140]  Can guarantee it.
[35:44.500 --> 35:45.100]  Not gonna happen.
[35:45.300 --> 35:49.000]  We have opposition that's out there creating crises for us.
[35:49.720 --> 35:51.240]  As try as we might.
[35:51.420 --> 35:52.760]  We're not gonna eliminate crisis.
[35:52.980 --> 35:54.000]  We're not gonna eliminate trauma.
[35:54.220 --> 35:56.440]  We're not gonna solve all of those things.
[35:56.620 --> 35:57.560]  There are still wolves.
[35:57.840 --> 35:57.920]  Right?
[35:58.280 --> 36:00.380]  But we can do better in how we address it.
[36:00.620 --> 36:04.140]  And how we lead and select the leaders that help us navigate it.
[36:04.140 --> 36:06.360]  By preparing better.
[36:06.600 --> 36:10.980]  And by building resilience and adaptability into our teams and ourselves.
[36:11.340 --> 36:13.400]  We increase our chances of survival.
[36:13.800 --> 36:16.220]  And improve the outcomes for those that we care about.
[36:19.000 --> 36:21.160]  So, some references for you.
[36:21.360 --> 36:22.160]  Highly recommend.
[36:22.900 --> 36:25.380]  If you're not readers, some of the audio books are great.
[36:25.380 --> 36:26.420]  There are a lot of other stuff.
[36:26.620 --> 36:29.340]  I do have some other stuff that I'm gonna put up on the website.
[36:30.280 --> 36:32.580]  A few essential bits as well.
[36:34.000 --> 36:35.360]  And with that, thank you.
[36:35.580 --> 36:38.020]  And if you've got questions, I'm happy to take a swing on it.
[36:48.750 --> 36:49.430]  Hello, friends.
[36:49.830 --> 36:51.050]  Let's thank our friend, George, again.
[36:55.270 --> 36:57.650]  So, we're gonna open up to questions and answers.
[36:57.810 --> 37:01.730]  If you are on Matrix, please, at tag ManChicken in the channel.
[37:01.930 --> 37:03.730]  Or otherwise, make it clear that you have a question.
[37:03.750 --> 37:04.870]  And I will read it for you.
[37:05.470 --> 37:09.690]  I'll intersperse those between humans in our audience.
[37:10.450 --> 37:12.830]  And I will call on you when it's your turn for a question.
[37:13.010 --> 37:14.590]  Starting with you, friend.
[37:15.570 --> 37:15.970]  Thank you.
[37:16.050 --> 37:16.250]  Hi.
[37:16.590 --> 37:17.730]  Thank you for this talk.
[37:18.110 --> 37:18.230]  Thank you.
[37:18.230 --> 37:21.010]  I'm sorry if I missed this, but are these slides somewhere?
[37:21.170 --> 37:24.310]  Because there was a lot of great stuff, but...
[37:24.310 --> 37:26.870]  Yeah, I'll make them available up on the website.
[37:27.110 --> 37:27.350]  Okay.
[37:27.410 --> 37:27.650]  Thank you.
[37:27.930 --> 37:30.770]  And then my other question, my real question, though, is...
[37:31.630 --> 37:32.770]  How do you...
[37:33.690 --> 37:37.550]  Like, there's a role for venting when people are going through a crisis?
[37:37.570 --> 37:45.310]  And how do you know when venting is helpful and when venting is just spinning people up?
[37:45.310 --> 37:46.130]  It's a great question.
[37:47.290 --> 37:54.110]  One of the things that I found, and again, big fan of active listening, and didn't kind of cover it here, and I should have now that I think about it.
[37:55.770 --> 37:59.390]  But, you know, again, the question, how do you not let things spin up?
[37:59.390 --> 38:06.750]  There's a point where you want to make things a little more time-bound, where you need to let people kind of emote.
[38:07.830 --> 38:12.710]  And that works very well, one-to-one, a lot better than in a group.
[38:12.970 --> 38:15.950]  In a group, it can kind of feed off of each other.
[38:16.090 --> 38:20.570]  And you need to kind of set a time limit, if you will.
[38:20.950 --> 38:22.930]  Get a sense of, hey, you know what?
[38:23.050 --> 38:24.230]  It's time to move on.
[38:24.230 --> 38:27.930]  And this is where, honestly, this is where some of the authoritarian thing works.
[38:28.070 --> 38:34.250]  Where it's like, it's great that we're processing stuff, but we need to move to safety at this point.
[38:34.390 --> 38:36.630]  You kind of have to read it as you kind of go.
[38:36.890 --> 38:42.010]  But while you do it, it's honestly more important how you do it than when you do it.
[38:42.530 --> 38:46.050]  You need to kind of acknowledge, I hear what you're saying.
[38:46.630 --> 38:48.950]  Right now, we need to prioritize this.
[38:49.150 --> 38:50.510]  Do you agree that we need to move?
[38:50.670 --> 38:51.370]  Let's move.
[38:52.110 --> 38:56.350]  You know, so you're not stripping somebody of agency and then kind of come back to it.
[38:56.570 --> 38:57.770]  But great question.
[39:00.090 --> 39:01.910]  I have a question from online.
[39:02.150 --> 39:02.310]  Yes.
[39:02.590 --> 39:13.670]  How do we determine one's scope of care, in parentheses, who my people are, in parentheses, while working in an institution that's in perpetual crisis and the bosses aren't bossing?
[39:14.050 --> 39:18.930]  Is anything ever, quote, above one's pay grade, end quote?
[39:19.190 --> 39:19.830]  Great talk.
[39:20.050 --> 39:20.290]  Thank you.
[39:20.290 --> 39:22.310]  Great question.
[39:23.230 --> 39:30.790]  So, as far as your scope of care, your scope of responsibility, I think it comes to the first thing you can do is you want to be that role model.
[39:31.310 --> 39:45.150]  So, even if these aren't people that are direct reports, you want to be that role model and you want to reach out to them and give them resources and enable your team to be more effective across a wider swath of people.
[39:45.150 --> 39:57.170]  If the bosses aren't bossing, and as long as they're not kind of coming down hard on you, which goes back to the weapons of the weak aspect of it, you can reach out to those people without drowning yourself.
[39:57.170 --> 40:00.030]  But, again, ties into don't over commit.
[40:00.310 --> 40:03.290]  Don't try to jump into the stream to save everybody.
[40:04.070 --> 40:07.250]  Try to work with the people that you can and be that role model.
[40:09.970 --> 40:11.790]  Hey, great presentation.
[40:12.090 --> 40:12.310]  Thank you.
[40:12.950 --> 40:17.890]  A lot of what you have in here is, feels to me, directed towards season leaders, season managers.
[40:18.590 --> 40:19.550]  How many of them?
[40:19.850 --> 40:24.610]  And so, I can relate a lot to what I've put a lot of these concepts to practice.
[40:24.930 --> 40:37.170]  But I'm curious what you would give, how you would suggest to junior leaders or managers or people that are early in their career looking to step into these kind of roles, how they would handle such situations.
[40:37.170 --> 40:38.170]  Yeah, outstanding.
[40:38.590 --> 40:53.750]  So, I think a lot of it, that self-evaluation, that understanding how you address and how you react in crisis and react in stress and seek out leaders like yourself that are seasoned, that have kind of been there.
[40:53.750 --> 41:04.930]  I think it is our obligation, our responsibility to see those threads and work with them to develop that because some of this is a little challenging.
[41:05.110 --> 41:17.870]  But starting with that self-evaluation, starting with those simple middle way practices, calming yourself, building some strategies, building some tools where, you know, hey, your communication gets a little bit better.
[41:17.870 --> 41:19.410]  You don't get freaked out.
[41:19.570 --> 41:20.750]  You are a little prepared.
[41:21.110 --> 41:30.770]  And then as leaders or more seasoned leaders or more senior leaders, giving people the opportunity to lead in crisis is where we can contain.
[41:30.930 --> 41:39.670]  So, I always kind of see it as the you know how far away from someone you're spotting on a balance beam is so you can get there in time and you can back.
[41:39.810 --> 41:41.310]  So, create that space for them.
[41:41.670 --> 41:42.110]  Great question.
[41:42.590 --> 41:42.970]  Thank you.
[41:47.570 --> 41:52.510]  We're still open for questions and we have about seven minutes if anybody wants to come up.
[41:53.330 --> 41:55.970]  I don't have any more questions online.
[41:59.890 --> 42:00.490]  Hi.
[42:00.830 --> 42:01.170]  Thank you.
[42:01.530 --> 42:02.290]  It's a really great talk.
[42:02.650 --> 42:02.850]  Thank you.
[42:03.050 --> 42:08.650]  So, I fell into teaching at the higher ed level a few years ago.
[42:08.910 --> 42:15.990]  And obviously that brings its own sets of challenges, but also needs of modeling leadership.
[42:15.990 --> 42:26.170]  And so, one thing I noticed over the years, especially in the post-COVID world, we're dealing with younger individuals that are yearning for stability.
[42:26.610 --> 42:32.330]  And so, as adults, we're now feeling this more so in this day and age.
[42:33.110 --> 42:40.590]  But one thing I noticed is they want everything to be stable, everything to move in a straight line and be predictable.
[42:43.130 --> 42:45.390]  And, you know, like what can you do about that?
[42:45.510 --> 42:48.330]  Now, I heard a talk about agility quotient.
[42:48.330 --> 42:49.370]  Yes.
[42:49.370 --> 42:52.150]  And to me, that seemed to be a really good model.
[42:52.410 --> 42:57.350]  But are there any suggestions that an educator could incorporate?
[42:57.350 --> 43:02.710]  Because I feel like we have to go further back to develop the leaders that we want to see.
[43:03.190 --> 43:04.090]  Yeah, absolutely.
[43:04.290 --> 43:05.670]  And thank you for that.
[43:06.070 --> 43:07.430]  Yeah, I agree with you.
[43:07.550 --> 43:11.350]  I think kind of coming back to some basic principles and some of those challenges.
[43:11.350 --> 43:30.210]  I think in a developmental standpoint, simplifying the issue, simplifying the problem, taking it down where, you know, we build into kind of our lesson planning where they need to work together and figure out who's going to be responsible, who's going to drive,
[43:30.390 --> 43:36.350]  who's going to kind of lead, and building that feedback to them, normalizing some of the feedback.
[43:37.470 --> 43:54.530]  One of the things that I do with my teams is I give them a fairly ambiguous ask that they need to present on for a time-bound period of time, like a short period of time, where not only are they revealing something about themselves, but they're getting critique on it,
[43:54.530 --> 43:59.170]  and they're getting feedback on it from others in the room, and then, of course, that rolls through.
[44:00.750 --> 44:08.490]  You can do the same with leadership models, where you ask them to take leadership for a point in time.
[44:08.630 --> 44:15.310]  Get from A to B, somebody picks up B to C, somebody picks up C to D, where they have some of that control.
[44:17.310 --> 44:22.190]  And the lesson is more about not completion, but about the feedback and then working together.
[44:23.230 --> 44:28.610]  You know, where you can introduce wrinkles, change teams halfway through.
[44:29.610 --> 44:30.910]  See if they can kind of pick up.
[44:31.190 --> 44:34.610]  You know, make it a little more complex, but you've got to break it down into much smaller bites.
[44:34.650 --> 44:36.730]  It's the how do you eat an elephant, I think.
[44:40.550 --> 44:41.010]  Hi there.
[44:41.150 --> 44:41.870]  Thank you for the talk.
[44:42.890 --> 44:47.270]  As someone who's going through, like, merger type things at work.
[44:47.620 --> 44:57.990]  I was curious if you had any kind of thoughts or feedback on inherently adversarial teams that seem to be rowing in opposite directions all the time.
[44:58.190 --> 44:58.370]  Yeah.
[44:58.550 --> 45:10.430]  As far as, like, getting everybody unified, getting everybody going forward, when, like, the teams are just, like, out to, like, point fingers or do everything except the mission.
[45:10.630 --> 45:11.150]  Absolutely.
[45:11.650 --> 45:16.510]  So the first thing you kind of have to evaluate, is that a condition set by...
[45:17.030 --> 45:17.670]  Is that the culture?
[45:19.510 --> 45:22.830]  If that's the culture, it's what's the driver there?
[45:22.830 --> 45:29.630]  You know, the understanding the kind of how this got set up in the first place.
[45:29.910 --> 45:39.950]  But I'm a big believer in stepping back and trying to find a, you know, Venn diagram of the overlap.
[45:39.950 --> 45:44.230]  There has to be something there that you can kind of build off of.
[45:45.110 --> 45:58.790]  One of the things that I've seen be really effective are those tabletop exercises, and especially going to senior leadership and being like, hey, the network team and the SOC don't talk to each other.
[45:59.530 --> 46:06.050]  And if we had an incident right now, it's going to slow us down and it's going to cost us X.
[46:06.670 --> 46:09.470]  So we need to get everybody in a room and start hammering away.
[46:09.710 --> 46:16.950]  The other aspect there is get out of the work mode piece and find a way to socialize.
[46:16.950 --> 46:27.410]  Find some common, common bit, you know, again, do something where they can't maintain those silos, where you break up the lunch tables, if you will.
[46:27.630 --> 46:37.750]  So, and I know that's a lot harder than I'm making it sound, but put it up on the board and don't, you know, don't limit yourself to, oh, this is the stuff we can do at work.
[46:38.530 --> 46:39.970]  So very good luck with that.
[46:40.130 --> 46:40.410]  Thank you.
[46:40.410 --> 46:40.710]  Yep.
[46:42.810 --> 46:43.630]  Thank you.
[46:45.230 --> 46:57.950]  A good colleague of mine once made an observation that I thought was interesting, which is most people who are, would make good leaders, don't want to be leaders.
[46:58.470 --> 47:03.150]  And most people who want to be leaders have no business being leaders.
[47:03.510 --> 47:03.690]  Yeah.
[47:03.930 --> 47:09.230]  I thought that was interesting because it would seem to explain why so many leaders are so terrible.
[47:09.230 --> 47:14.670]  But it's also really pessimistic because it feels like we're doomed to have mostly bad leaders.
[47:15.070 --> 47:18.150]  Do you think that was... what do you make of that?
[47:18.710 --> 47:23.710]  I think I go back to, you know, again, looking for those markers, looking for the why they want to.
[47:23.810 --> 47:24.630]  And sometimes it's hard.
[47:25.070 --> 47:31.490]  You know, the folks that, you know, are dark triad friends are very good at masking why they want what they want.
[47:31.970 --> 47:36.970]  But if we look for those markers, if we look for their behaviors, we look for the way that they treat their people.
[47:37.290 --> 47:39.530]  You know, I still go back to simple models.
[47:39.690 --> 47:42.370]  It's like, go to lunch with somebody and see how they treat the wait staff.
[47:44.330 --> 47:44.690]  Yeah.
[47:45.010 --> 47:46.790]  So look at how they treat their people.
[47:46.930 --> 47:47.710]  Look how they communicate.
[47:48.410 --> 47:52.010]  Look at how they treat people that they have power over.
[47:52.010 --> 47:55.190]  And look at how they treat people that have power over them.
[48:01.290 --> 48:01.410]  Okay.
[48:02.030 --> 48:04.090]  So we have one more from online.
[48:04.490 --> 48:06.830]  Depending on time, this may be the last question.
[48:07.250 --> 48:17.610]  So I've been placed in a position that gives me some opportunity to build a bridge between some dark leadership practices and an overwhelmed team that maybe is close to rage quitting.
[48:17.610 --> 48:29.530]  What are some subtle or clandestine ways to influence leadership to start reflecting and recognizing that this is not just the staff that needs to improve?
[48:30.110 --> 48:30.490]  Yeah.
[48:30.650 --> 48:31.430]  Outstanding question.
[48:31.790 --> 48:40.370]  So in dealing with leadership, it's often about being succinct and figuring out what they, what drives them.
[48:40.910 --> 48:42.390]  You know, oftentimes it's a bottom line.
[48:42.530 --> 48:43.730]  Oftentimes it's a number.
[48:44.110 --> 48:45.710]  Hey, productivity is slipping.
[48:45.710 --> 48:49.290]  We have people that are out because they're not healthy.
[48:49.290 --> 48:53.450]  We are missing our marks because of these things.
[48:53.730 --> 48:57.470]  And look for something that's easily rectifiable.
[48:57.890 --> 49:03.390]  You know, something that's not systemic, not a cultural issue.
[49:03.650 --> 49:06.130]  Something that, you know what, just go ahead and do this.
[49:06.290 --> 49:11.210]  Or, hey, can we try this, you know, as to improve?
[49:11.670 --> 49:19.090]  You know, I kind of always think back to the Simpsons episode of the give them their tartar sauce.
[49:19.450 --> 49:32.210]  You know, it's like, yeah, if that will have an impact to your team, if it's something that you can do for your team or that you can put some cover to do more for your team, go ahead and do it.
[49:32.910 --> 49:34.970]  So, and happy to dig into that a little bit more.
[49:35.050 --> 49:37.770]  There's some good examples from recent history.
[49:38.350 --> 49:39.350]  So, we want to reach out.
[49:40.370 --> 49:40.650]  Excellent.
[49:42.130 --> 49:43.510]  Everybody, let's thank our friend, George, again.
[49:43.770 --> 49:44.330]  Thank you so much.
[49:44.330 --> 49:44.810]  And, thank you so much.