[00:00.000 --> 00:01.460]  The next hope.
[00:15.710 --> 00:16.730]  Wow, wait.
[00:19.930 --> 00:21.670]  That was a pretty big reaction.
[00:21.790 --> 00:22.530]  I wasn't expecting that.
[00:25.600 --> 00:26.900]  Is somebody trolling me?
[00:27.020 --> 00:28.320]  What's going on with that?
[00:28.460 --> 00:28.740]  All right.
[00:34.920 --> 00:42.420]  It's really hard to do this with dogs, children, and electronically generated noises.
[00:42.420 --> 00:44.300]  They always leave the third one off.
[00:44.780 --> 00:47.700]  So everybody is here for the social engineering panel, right?
[00:56.140 --> 00:56.620]  Okay.
[00:57.540 --> 01:02.480]  As you know, we're trying to get back on the schedule as quickly as possible.
[01:02.740 --> 01:04.380]  Here in Bell are Overflow.
[01:05.160 --> 01:11.500]  The talk for noobs, which is not nearly as well attended as this talk, is happening in Lovelace.
[01:11.760 --> 01:18.440]  So without any further ado, please, everybody, give a huge round of applause and a welcome for Emmanuel and the social engineering panel.
[01:30.810 --> 01:31.210]  Greetings.
[01:31.490 --> 01:32.830]  Greetings, everybody, and welcome.
[01:33.290 --> 01:35.290]  I hope you're all having a great time at the conference.
[01:38.290 --> 01:40.710]  It's too bad it has to end tomorrow, isn't it?
[01:41.010 --> 01:41.770]  It really is.
[01:42.230 --> 01:54.890]  Well, if you want this place to stay standing, please sign our petitions that are located all throughout the space to save the hotel, because we sure as hell aren't going to have a conference in a 67-story office building if that gets put here instead.
[01:54.890 --> 01:56.630]  Social engineering.
[01:56.650 --> 02:08.690]  This is a tradition since the very first HOPE conference where we talk about ways of getting information from people and demonstrate it live through our amazing phone lines.
[02:09.270 --> 02:10.430]  We'll do a little bit of that.
[02:10.430 --> 02:14.490]  But first, I'd like all the way over on the left for people to start introducing themselves.
[02:16.430 --> 02:17.390]  Oh, Bernie, are you okay?
[02:17.610 --> 02:18.350]  Hi, Bernie!
[02:19.050 --> 02:19.410]  Bernie!
[02:19.970 --> 02:21.470]  Who's backstage hooking up phone lines?
[02:21.590 --> 02:21.890]  Oh, okay.
[02:21.970 --> 02:25.950]  Bernie's the guy hooking up the phone line here and making sure it works.
[02:26.210 --> 02:27.730]  And apparently he's doing that again.
[02:28.590 --> 02:29.950]  While he's... okay, are you back?
[02:30.470 --> 02:30.970]  I'm sorry?
[02:31.390 --> 02:32.990]  Introduce yourself so we know who you are.
[02:34.850 --> 02:36.470]  Oh, I'm...
[02:36.470 --> 02:37.370]  How is sign language?
[02:37.770 --> 02:38.650]  I'm Bernie, yes.
[02:38.850 --> 02:41.930]  And I've been known to make some phone calls in my day.
[02:42.230 --> 02:44.730]  And we
[02:49.380 --> 02:57.160]  had to pull some rabbits out of the hat last minute here just to get the phone line so you guys could hear phone calls and stuff.
[02:57.280 --> 03:00.840]  But it's all fixed and everything's great and this will be fun.
[03:03.930 --> 03:04.750]  I'm Notkevin.
[03:05.470 --> 03:06.670]  I social engineer people.
[03:06.950 --> 03:08.310]  That's pretty much all I have to say.
[03:11.370 --> 03:15.690]  Hi, I'm the rodent and this is Sid Vicious, the world's only hacker dog.
[03:16.390 --> 03:16.830]  So...
[03:21.370 --> 03:22.390]  Oh, hi, I'm Gus.
[03:23.050 --> 03:27.310]  I'm here to tell a story about a friend of mine and something that happened to them with Facebook and email.
[03:28.350 --> 03:29.890]  I'm Emmanuel, you probably know that.
[03:30.050 --> 03:31.410]  And I'd like to introduce Kevin Mitnick.
[03:42.640 --> 03:45.320]  Hi, I'm Kevin and I used to be a social engineer.
[03:47.680 --> 03:48.380]  Used to be.
[03:50.820 --> 03:54.000]  All right, I think we're still trying to figure out how the phone works.
[03:55.260 --> 03:55.660]  So...
[03:56.080 --> 03:57.000]  Is this the phone?
[03:57.140 --> 03:58.100]  It's a touch-tone phone.
[03:58.420 --> 03:59.220]  Beautiful model.
[03:59.840 --> 04:00.820]  Tell us something about this, Bernie.
[04:00.820 --> 04:12.260]  It's a classic Western Electric telephone company property touch-tone phone with a real mechanical ringer.
[04:14.360 --> 04:22.220]  And it was specially modified with a noise-canceling microphone because when we call people during this talk, we don't want them to hear you guys laughing.
[04:23.580 --> 04:29.440]  And there's a push-to-talk switch here so that only when one of us are pushing it down will they hear us.
[04:29.520 --> 04:34.540]  So it basically cuts out more laughter, which kind of would blow the whole thing.
[04:34.540 --> 04:35.480]  So that's what we do.
[04:36.500 --> 04:40.080]  This phone was built in 1977 according to what it says in the bottom.
[04:40.280 --> 04:44.580]  And how many of you think your cell phones are going to be around for over 30 years?
[04:47.140 --> 04:47.580]  All right.
[04:48.200 --> 04:49.660]  Why don't we start with an anecdote?
[04:49.980 --> 04:52.280]  Maybe, Gus, it would be a good time for you to tell your anecdote.
[04:52.540 --> 04:52.600]  Sure.
[04:52.600 --> 04:55.800]  And then we'll maybe try some demonstrations, take suggestions.
[04:56.100 --> 04:56.140]  Okay.
[04:56.140 --> 04:58.700]  You don't want to talk about what kind of demonstrations we're doing today first?
[04:58.780 --> 04:59.380]  Oh, I don't know.
[04:59.480 --> 05:00.780]  I'm still thinking about that, actually.
[05:00.900 --> 05:00.920]  Still thinking, okay.
[05:00.920 --> 05:03.940]  I couldn't find any phone books, so I have to sort of come up with things on the web.
[05:04.060 --> 05:05.300]  But we're working on it.
[05:06.300 --> 05:08.360]  I'm going to put this in a hypothetical second person.
[05:08.800 --> 05:13.320]  It happened to a friend of mine, and I just want to sort of imagine if this happened to you.
[05:13.320 --> 05:15.740]  Imagine you have a name that's relatively common.
[05:16.000 --> 05:17.540]  Let's say a friend's name is Jennifer Smith.
[05:18.860 --> 05:22.400]  So a person happened to get jsmith at gmail.com.
[05:22.540 --> 05:23.060]  Pretty amazing.
[05:23.680 --> 05:28.640]  Everybody on the Internet suddenly believes that jsmith at gmail.com belongs to them.
[05:29.140 --> 05:33.840]  So jsmith at gmail.com begins to get emails saying, hi, honey, here's our tax returns.
[05:34.720 --> 05:36.740]  Hi, honey, here's some pictures of that car wreck.
[05:37.520 --> 05:39.460]  Here's a giant gaping scar.
[05:40.140 --> 05:41.060]  Pictures of the baby.
[05:41.340 --> 05:42.480]  Pictures of the vacation.
[05:43.440 --> 05:47.300]  Here's the person calling from, you know, the job you just interviewed for.
[05:47.460 --> 05:51.220]  And we wanted to get back in touch with you and talk a little bit further about this job opportunity.
[05:51.900 --> 05:52.740]  This actually happened.
[05:53.320 --> 06:00.580]  So you end up with a great deal of information about people and ways you can slot yourself into their storyline in some way.
[06:01.440 --> 06:04.420]  Say somebody used this email address to sign you up for Facebook.
[06:05.860 --> 06:06.860]  Say somebody...
[06:06.860 --> 06:20.300]  Say, for example, that Facebook doesn't quite calculate email addresses the same way that Gmail does, where if you put a period in it and you said j.smith or jsmith, that could be two different accounts, whereas on Gmail it's only one account.
[06:22.340 --> 06:24.460]  Maybe you could log into that person's Facebook account.
[06:24.540 --> 06:25.900]  It would be pretty easy to change the password.
[06:26.620 --> 06:28.320]  Maybe they already logged in themselves.
[06:28.560 --> 06:30.020]  Maybe they already had a couple of friends.
[06:32.100 --> 06:37.360]  Could you perhaps look at who those people's friends were and begin to friend them and build your own friend network?
[06:37.640 --> 06:40.420]  Say this person was, you know, somewhere in another state.
[06:42.220 --> 06:43.200]  What would you do?
[06:44.220 --> 06:45.920]  Could you, for example...
[06:45.920 --> 07:06.120]  So, say people started saying yes to friend requests without even knowing who you were, to the tune of a hundred people not even questioning that this person who claims to be jennifersmith at gmail.com is the person they say they are.
[07:06.480 --> 07:07.620]  Don't challenge it once.
[07:07.900 --> 07:13.640]  Say you begin to populate that Facebook account with the things that you've been getting from that Gmail address.
[07:14.060 --> 07:16.260]  Like, here's the pictures of that car rack.
[07:16.400 --> 07:17.220]  Boy, that was kind of a pain.
[07:17.480 --> 07:19.020]  Here's the pictures of our ski vacation.
[07:19.640 --> 07:22.260]  Nice picture of a baby as the profile photo.
[07:23.380 --> 07:31.480]  Do you think that perhaps somebody might say, or suddenly give you one of those little Facebook awards for like, oh, you're the best dad.
[07:31.760 --> 07:32.740]  Because you have a baby.
[07:33.740 --> 07:35.200]  You know, or best mom or whatever.
[07:35.520 --> 07:38.400]  So, I just want to say that this happened.
[07:39.140 --> 07:39.980]  This all happened.
[07:40.240 --> 07:49.660]  And my friend ended up with a friend network in Kentucky of 80 people who had never once challenged that she was who she said she was before she took it down and said, this is ridiculous.
[07:49.660 --> 07:50.680]  I can't do this any longer.
[07:51.060 --> 07:58.620]  So, social engineering can be done because people just give you this stuff and it happens.
[07:59.120 --> 08:00.920]  So, that's maybe all I have to say.
[08:08.260 --> 08:10.820]  Okay, we're still working out the phone kinks.
[08:10.940 --> 08:13.600]  And I think Kevin's got a story to share while we do that.
[08:14.360 --> 08:14.940]  You want a story?
[08:15.160 --> 08:15.460]  Okay.
[08:17.760 --> 08:22.480]  I was on the panel two years ago and I don't recall if I told the story because I don't want to say it again.
[08:22.700 --> 08:25.800]  Did I cover the story about the social engineering attack on Motorola?
[08:26.560 --> 08:27.520]  Does anyone remember?
[08:27.680 --> 08:28.080]  Yes or no?
[08:29.300 --> 08:29.820]  I did.
[08:31.980 --> 08:32.380]  No.
[08:32.880 --> 08:33.280]  Motorola.
[08:33.940 --> 08:34.840]  That was a different one.
[08:35.040 --> 08:35.740]  Okay, this is a different one.
[08:36.360 --> 08:36.680]  All right.
[08:36.840 --> 08:37.520]  I'll tell this one.
[08:38.640 --> 08:40.840]  So, at the time, it was 1993.
[08:41.820 --> 08:43.500]  I'm living in Denver, Colorado.
[08:44.200 --> 08:51.600]  At the time, I wasn't living under the name of Kevin Mitnick because certain law enforcement agencies wanted to speak with me and I didn't want to talk to them.
[08:56.620 --> 08:59.190]  So, I was living under the name of Eric Weiss.
[08:59.500 --> 09:00.450]  Why Eric Weiss?
[09:00.540 --> 09:04.720]  Because that is the real name for the famous magician Harry Houdini.
[09:05.930 --> 09:11.740]  I thought I had a sense of humor, but later I found out the FBI had no sense of humor.
[09:12.100 --> 09:13.450]  But that's a story for another day.
[09:14.960 --> 09:23.080]  So, at the time, one of my colleagues at the law firm where I was working handed me a brochure for the MicroTac ultralight cell phone.
[09:23.360 --> 09:28.950]  And what was cool about the cell phone is it looked like a Star Trek communicator, kind of like the iPhone of today.
[09:29.650 --> 09:34.460]  And I wanted to get the source code because I wanted to see actually how this phone worked.
[09:34.460 --> 09:39.620]  I wanted to become more invisible to the network because at the time I was running from the government.
[09:39.860 --> 09:44.720]  So, I wanted to be able to modify the firmware on the actual cell phone to create invisibility.
[09:46.570 --> 09:50.950]  So, I left the office around three o'clock one afternoon.
[09:51.120 --> 09:53.550]  It was actually snowing in downtown Denver.
[09:54.220 --> 09:56.830]  I get out of the lobby and I power up a cell phone.
[09:56.830 --> 10:00.080]  Incidentally, not under Kevin Mitnick or Eric Weiss.
[10:00.500 --> 10:06.140]  And I called directory assistance for directory assistance and I get the number from Motorola Corporation.
[10:06.670 --> 10:13.720]  I get a receptionist and I say, hey, I'm trying to reach the project manager of the MicroTac ultralight project.
[10:14.720 --> 10:19.930]  So, the nice receptionist told me that all cellular phone development was handled out of Schaumburg, Illinois.
[10:20.640 --> 10:22.310]  And she asked, do you want that number?
[10:22.380 --> 10:22.880]  I said, sure.
[10:23.710 --> 10:24.640]  She gives me the number.
[10:24.720 --> 10:25.120]  I call it.
[10:25.190 --> 10:26.360]  I get a different receptionist.
[10:27.340 --> 10:31.860]  And I tell her I'm looking for the project manager of the MicroTac ultralight project.
[10:32.930 --> 10:36.840]  So, I'm transferred around two, three, four, five, seven, eight times.
[10:37.340 --> 10:41.600]  And finally, I'm speaking to the VP of R&D for all of Motorola cell phones.
[10:41.760 --> 10:44.240]  For what they call the Pan-American cellular subscriber group.
[10:45.360 --> 10:48.240]  And I say, hey, this is Rick over in Arlington Heights.
[10:48.500 --> 10:53.380]  Because during the earlier phone calls, I obtained intel that they had a facility in Arlington Heights.
[10:54.120 --> 10:56.640]  And I said, I'm looking for the project manager of the MicroTac.
[10:56.940 --> 10:58.360]  And he goes, oh, that's Pam.
[10:58.540 --> 10:59.240]  She works for me.
[11:00.000 --> 11:00.700]  I go, oh.
[11:00.880 --> 11:02.120]  And he goes, would you like her extension?
[11:02.300 --> 11:02.860]  I go, sure.
[11:03.220 --> 11:03.880]  Wrote it down.
[11:04.040 --> 11:05.410]  And he goes, can I help you with anything?
[11:05.410 --> 11:06.120]  I go, no, no, no.
[11:06.240 --> 11:07.030]  I'll just talk to Pam.
[11:07.120 --> 11:07.960]  But thank you very much.
[11:08.920 --> 11:10.680]  So, of course, my next call is to Pam.
[11:11.220 --> 11:12.260]  But I don't get her.
[11:12.410 --> 11:14.530]  I get her outgoing greeting on her voicemail.
[11:14.860 --> 11:17.840]  And she told her callers that she just left on a two-week vacation.
[11:18.480 --> 11:20.580]  And that she'll be returning on such and such date.
[11:21.000 --> 11:25.880]  And if you needed any help whatsoever, to please call Alicia on extension blah, blah, blah.
[11:26.700 --> 11:27.920]  So, who's my next call to?
[11:28.530 --> 11:28.840]  Alicia.
[11:30.060 --> 11:30.880]  So, I call Alicia.
[11:31.000 --> 11:31.670]  I go, hey, Alicia.
[11:31.880 --> 11:33.820]  This is Rick over in R&D in Arlington Heights.
[11:33.910 --> 11:34.500]  How are you today?
[11:34.980 --> 11:35.580]  I'm fine.
[11:35.740 --> 11:36.240]  How are you, Rick?
[11:36.380 --> 11:37.200]  Well, I'm doing great.
[11:37.500 --> 11:39.290]  I said, did Pam leave on vacation yet?
[11:39.290 --> 11:42.840]  Because when I spoke to her last week, she said she might be leaving on vacation.
[11:44.060 --> 11:44.920]  Oh, she had.
[11:45.560 --> 11:50.960]  Well, she told me that if she didn't have time to do this for me, that I can call you, that you would help me out.
[11:51.880 --> 11:53.060]  She goes, well, what do you need, Rick?
[11:53.170 --> 11:57.000]  I said, I need the source code for the MicroTac ultralight.
[11:57.670 --> 12:00.460]  And by this time, I'm walking down the streets of Denver.
[12:00.670 --> 12:01.260]  It's snowing.
[12:01.340 --> 12:02.100]  There's horns honking.
[12:02.220 --> 12:02.930]  This is all extemporaneous.
[12:04.080 --> 12:05.440]  So, there was no preparation.
[12:05.680 --> 12:08.000]  And I was a little bit nervous because you could hear background noise.
[12:08.000 --> 12:10.720]  I didn't have a noise-canceling microphone in my cell phone.
[12:11.940 --> 12:15.030]  And she goes, well, Rick, what version do you want?
[12:19.320 --> 12:20.340]  And I didn't prepare.
[12:20.360 --> 12:21.360]  I had no idea.
[12:21.640 --> 12:24.460]  So I just said, how about the latest and the greatest?
[12:25.320 --> 12:28.880]  So, I could hear her typing on the computer, and she's fishing around on their network.
[12:29.560 --> 12:32.260]  And after about four or five minutes, she comes back.
[12:32.360 --> 12:36.980]  She goes, Rick, I found the latest release to the MicroTac ultralight, but there's a problem.
[12:38.040 --> 12:38.760]  What is it?
[12:39.080 --> 12:41.910]  She goes, well, there's hundreds of directories.
[12:42.030 --> 12:43.680]  And within the directories, there's hundreds of files.
[12:44.540 --> 12:46.620]  And I go, well, do you know how to use tar and gzip?
[12:48.980 --> 12:50.060]  And she goes, no.
[12:50.170 --> 12:51.120]  I go, would you like to learn?
[12:51.240 --> 12:51.980]  And she goes, yes.
[13:01.940 --> 13:03.840]  So, I became her instructor for the day.
[13:05.820 --> 13:10.260]  So after the day's lesson, we had a three megabyte file of the source code that I wanted to look at.
[13:10.920 --> 13:13.560]  So my next question to her is, do you know how to use FTP?
[13:14.620 --> 13:16.480]  And she goes, file transfer program?
[13:16.600 --> 13:17.560]  And I go, yes, precisely.
[13:19.020 --> 13:20.220]  So, think about this.
[13:20.300 --> 13:21.300]  I'm walking down the street.
[13:21.480 --> 13:22.660]  It's all off the cuff.
[13:23.360 --> 13:25.120]  I'm 10 minutes away from my apartment.
[13:25.900 --> 13:30.740]  And I couldn't give her my IP address, hacker.colorado.edu, right?
[13:30.820 --> 13:32.260]  Because that's outside of Motorola's campus.
[13:32.840 --> 13:41.820]  But fortunately, I had a good knack for remembering numbers from my phone phreaking days, and actually remembered an IP address of a system where there was another anonymous account.
[13:42.560 --> 13:45.660]  So I said, try to open up a connection to this IP address.
[13:46.140 --> 13:50.000]  And she tried, and they kept timing out twice, three times.
[13:50.220 --> 13:52.200]  And she goes, Rick, uh-huh?
[13:52.540 --> 13:57.400]  She goes, I'm going to talk to my security manager about what you're asking me to do, because I can't open a connection.
[13:58.000 --> 14:01.620]  And I go, no, no, no, because I'm already on hold.
[14:01.660 --> 14:02.560]  And I go, oh, my God.
[14:02.740 --> 14:05.400]  You know, obviously, the jig is up.
[14:06.540 --> 14:13.200]  So I'm thinking as I'm walking down the streets, and you know, when you're waiting for something, how seconds become minutes, minutes become hours.
[14:14.020 --> 14:18.300]  And, you know, I was getting nervous, more nervous as the time went on.
[14:18.860 --> 14:22.400]  Thinking, oh, they're going to hook up a tape recorder, and that's going to be exhibit A later.
[14:24.760 --> 14:26.300]  So she comes back on the phone.
[14:26.480 --> 14:27.200]  She goes, Rick?
[14:27.540 --> 14:28.140]  Uh-huh.
[14:28.500 --> 14:29.380]  Notice I'm not speaking.
[14:29.880 --> 14:33.280]  She goes, well, I spoke to my security manager about what you're asking me to do.
[14:33.520 --> 14:34.060]  Uh-huh.
[14:34.720 --> 14:39.340]  And that IP address you gave me is outside of Motorola's campus.
[14:40.100 --> 14:40.700]  Uh-huh.
[14:43.080 --> 14:48.860]  Well, my manager told me that to send you this file, we have to use a special proxy server.
[14:48.860 --> 14:53.120]  So he was kind enough to give me his username and password to send you the file.
[15:03.480 --> 15:11.280]  So by the time I put the key into the front door of my apartment in Denver, the source code to the MicroTac ultralight was sitting on the box.
[15:12.140 --> 15:15.640]  So I think that really illustrates the threat and impact of social engineering.
[15:15.900 --> 15:18.240]  You could have the best technology money can buy.
[15:18.440 --> 15:25.320]  And if you have a good gift to gab and you find the right targets within an organization, that bypasses all the technologies.
[15:25.520 --> 15:26.220]  So there you go.
[15:27.220 --> 15:27.660]  Awesome.
[15:33.840 --> 15:38.820]  You see, it's all about getting people to trust you, to get people on your side.
[15:38.820 --> 15:40.520]  And when they're on your side, they'll help you out.
[15:40.700 --> 15:43.200]  Even if what they're doing makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
[15:44.280 --> 15:47.300]  You can... Kevin's got a great phone personality.
[15:47.300 --> 15:50.880]  So he's able to get people to trust him when he's talking to them on the phone.
[15:52.000 --> 15:52.400]  And...
[15:52.400 --> 15:53.220]  Why is that...
[15:54.400 --> 15:54.980]  For you.
[15:55.060 --> 15:56.400]  Damn you and your analog ring.
[15:56.860 --> 16:00.240]  Well, don't forget the whole trust issue here is with the...
[16:00.240 --> 16:05.840]  Getting the information from the manager's voicemail that she was on vacation and leveraging that in building the credibility.
[16:05.900 --> 16:06.020]  Exactly.
[16:06.160 --> 16:08.560]  Yeah, it's getting more and more information as you go along.
[16:08.560 --> 16:13.060]  So that when you are ready to make your final phone call, you know your shit.
[16:13.220 --> 16:14.940]  And they believe you.
[16:15.060 --> 16:16.740]  And you're more authoritarian than they are.
[16:16.940 --> 16:21.240]  So they feel if they don't listen to you, if they don't do what you ask, they might be in trouble.
[16:21.600 --> 16:24.940]  So that's something to always use to your advantage.
[16:26.580 --> 16:29.400]  I've been thinking about potential things to do.
[16:30.900 --> 16:33.660]  And it's tough because, like I said, I couldn't find the phone books.
[16:33.720 --> 16:35.980]  I've just been sort of carousing around here on the net.
[16:37.140 --> 16:42.380]  And I gotta say, I don't know about you guys, if you're as upset as I am about this whole BP fiasco.
[16:42.580 --> 16:44.080]  Are you pissed off about this?
[16:44.360 --> 16:44.760]  Yeah?
[16:45.580 --> 16:46.820]  I mean, what the hell?
[16:48.320 --> 16:51.980]  Just pouring all of the oil into the Gulf and nobody seems to care anymore.
[16:52.180 --> 16:56.640]  And I'm happy to say that the first day of hope was the first day that they capped the damn thing.
[16:57.540 --> 16:57.940]  So...
[16:57.940 --> 16:59.320]  No applause for BP.
[16:59.600 --> 17:00.220]  No applause for BP.
[17:00.220 --> 17:08.640]  But regardless, regardless, I would like to just propose that tonight, as sort of a special thank you, that we do only BP-related calls.
[17:08.800 --> 17:09.220]  How's that?
[17:13.490 --> 17:14.150]  All right.
[17:17.140 --> 17:17.680]  All right.
[17:17.760 --> 17:18.780]  I'm working on something here.
[17:18.900 --> 17:19.560]  I'd like...
[17:19.560 --> 17:21.440]  Kevin and we have a dog on the panel.
[17:21.700 --> 17:24.360]  And maybe we could introduce each other and just...
[17:24.360 --> 17:26.480]  We can get into some phone shenanigans.
[17:26.740 --> 17:27.100]  Go ahead.
[17:27.620 --> 17:28.380]  Tell us...
[17:28.380 --> 17:28.880]  Who are you?
[17:28.880 --> 17:29.420]  What do you do?
[17:29.640 --> 17:30.180]  What have you done?
[17:31.140 --> 17:34.580]  Well, my name's Notkevin, as I said before, and I social engineered my way on this panel.
[17:34.660 --> 17:34.760]  Wait.
[17:34.800 --> 17:36.120]  What is your name if your name's Notkevin?
[17:36.680 --> 17:40.080]  Well, my name's Notkevin Mitnick, which is probably why I'm up here.
[17:40.400 --> 17:41.460]  Things get confused.
[17:43.140 --> 17:44.020]  Well, let's see.
[17:44.460 --> 17:49.460]  So, I can't really see the audience very well, but are there any almost college-aged kids here?
[17:49.840 --> 17:50.820]  Can you guys raise your hands?
[17:51.980 --> 17:52.420]  All right.
[17:52.480 --> 17:53.700]  So, I have a little story for you guys.
[17:54.280 --> 17:55.560]  So, as you're...
[17:55.560 --> 17:56.620]  You know, you're probably like me.
[17:56.740 --> 17:57.480]  You're all very lazy.
[17:58.100 --> 18:03.940]  So, when I was applying for colleges, I waited to the absolute last moment to submit my applications.
[18:04.500 --> 18:10.140]  And I realized a couple hours before the application deadline that I hadn't even started yet.
[18:10.680 --> 18:12.860]  So, I did what everyone would do.
[18:13.040 --> 18:13.540]  I went to sleep.
[18:13.760 --> 18:22.100]  And in the morning, I woke up and I called up the college admissions office of the specific university I was looking to get into.
[18:22.480 --> 18:25.000]  And I said, hello, my name is, you know, John Smith.
[18:25.120 --> 18:26.840]  I'm a very generic name.
[18:27.380 --> 18:29.700]  I'm an academic counselor at a high school.
[18:29.940 --> 18:31.360]  And I have this kid here.
[18:31.520 --> 18:32.480]  And he's one of mine.
[18:32.520 --> 18:34.040]  And he says he submitted his applications.
[18:34.140 --> 18:35.460]  And you haven't gotten back to him.
[18:35.520 --> 18:37.980]  And I'm getting really worried because I realized that you're...
[18:37.980 --> 18:39.920]  That, you know, you haven't submitted anything back to him.
[18:40.020 --> 18:41.620]  And he's getting really scared.
[18:42.040 --> 18:43.500]  And they said, oh, what's his name?
[18:43.620 --> 18:44.520]  So, I gave him my name.
[18:44.780 --> 18:47.280]  And I gave him my, you know, my telephone number and my email address.
[18:47.460 --> 18:48.760]  And I said, all right, we'll get right back to him.
[18:48.760 --> 18:52.180]  So, you know, an hour goes by and I get a call from the dean of admissions.
[18:52.860 --> 18:54.960]  And they're like, Kevin, what's going on?
[18:55.020 --> 18:56.180]  And I said, well, I don't know, you know.
[18:56.380 --> 18:57.740]  And I started getting all very nervous.
[18:57.880 --> 18:58.820]  I started starting my words.
[18:58.940 --> 19:00.620]  I started, like, almost kind of choking up.
[19:00.720 --> 19:01.760]  Like, I'm getting really scared.
[19:01.760 --> 19:03.020]  I want to get into this college.
[19:03.280 --> 19:05.620]  You know, it's not fair that you haven't gotten back to me.
[19:05.680 --> 19:06.820]  I have good grades.
[19:06.900 --> 19:07.620]  I've got all these great things.
[19:07.680 --> 19:08.680]  He's like, oh, Kevin, don't worry.
[19:08.860 --> 19:09.840]  I'm so sorry.
[19:10.280 --> 19:11.780]  We didn't know that we didn't get your application.
[19:12.160 --> 19:14.240]  Just submit it right now and we'll call it even.
[19:15.640 --> 19:19.720]  Two hours later, he called me back and said, Kevin, you have 12 hours to drive up.
[19:20.060 --> 19:20.520]  Congratulations.
[19:28.720 --> 19:31.660]  So social engineering is not always about, you know, doing malicious things.
[19:31.800 --> 19:34.060]  It's more of a self-serving sometimes, I guess.
[19:36.260 --> 19:39.260]  Didn't you use that same tactic to get a populated badge here?
[19:41.120 --> 19:42.260]  I can't answer that.
[19:42.260 --> 19:43.520]  Oh, it works on us too sometimes.
[19:46.440 --> 19:52.740]  Hi, I'm the rodent and this is Sid Vicious, the world's only and probably the best social engineer hacker dog around.
[19:53.040 --> 19:54.600]  So let's see.
[19:54.700 --> 19:58.860]  He's gotten me into a central office or gotten me into the back of a bank vault.
[19:59.420 --> 20:02.460]  And he's gotten me out of a very, very expensive ticket.
[20:03.160 --> 20:06.080]  So that's probably the most self-serving thing that he's done.
[20:06.440 --> 20:10.340]  And I lived out in the desert in Las Vegas or Nevada.
[20:10.340 --> 20:13.320]  And you can drive fast, driving long distances.
[20:13.560 --> 20:19.540]  And I got pulled over and the sheriff or the patrol officer was really pissed off and, you know, speeding through his territory.
[20:19.720 --> 20:25.420]  And he came up to the window and started telling me, took my license and registration and went all this.
[20:25.800 --> 20:30.420]  And then after he came back and he started writing the ticket and he was asking me why I'm driving so fast.
[20:30.440 --> 20:33.400]  And he can bust me because he got me going over like 95.
[20:34.720 --> 20:37.700]  And I rolled down the window a little bit so Sid could get some air.
[20:37.940 --> 20:42.460]  And within about like 30 seconds of talking to him, the officer was like petting Sid.
[20:42.980 --> 20:44.420]  And he was like, he's got some water?
[20:44.660 --> 20:49.960]  You know, his conversation changed from me committing a felony through his territory to my dog if he's got water.
[20:51.660 --> 20:59.220]  So after a couple minutes, he was like, well, tell you what, I'm going to write this for a lot less so you don't get as many points and you can actually go to traffic school.
[20:59.360 --> 21:02.920]  So he wrote it for like 25 miles an hour under what he clocked me for.
[21:02.920 --> 21:14.800]  So that was all... I know it was just I just cracked the window a little bit and Sid just started talking to him a little bit and his way of being and I was able to, you know, not be in so much trouble.
[21:16.680 --> 21:19.540]  I actually learned something the other day about New York City traffic tickets.
[21:19.600 --> 21:22.860]  If you haven't heard this, once they start writing the ticket, they can't stop.
[21:23.040 --> 21:26.560]  But if you catch them beforehand, waterworks might work for you.
[21:26.640 --> 21:29.380]  It almost worked for me, but the officer was like, no, I can't do it.
[21:29.580 --> 21:30.860]  I started to write the ticket.
[21:30.860 --> 21:32.780]  So although she may have filled it out blank in the end.
[21:33.000 --> 21:33.460]  It was nice of her.
[21:33.500 --> 21:35.360]  Don't you know how to get out tickets for social engineering?
[21:36.160 --> 21:37.400]  I think that was what I did.
[21:37.980 --> 21:38.280]  Okay.
[21:38.300 --> 21:41.540]  But there's a better way where you can get any tickets even after the guy writes it.
[21:41.900 --> 21:42.740]  Oh, do tell.
[21:42.840 --> 21:43.160]  Do tell.
[21:43.320 --> 21:44.500]  But I don't know if it works.
[21:44.660 --> 21:45.800]  It works in California.
[21:45.800 --> 21:46.640]  It works in Las...
[21:46.640 --> 21:47.080]  Nevada.
[21:47.480 --> 21:48.640]  Of course, I never did it.
[21:51.220 --> 21:51.580]  Right.
[21:51.580 --> 21:54.340]  And if I did do it, it's passed the Statue of Limitations.
[21:56.700 --> 21:57.640]  That's my disclaimer.
[21:58.440 --> 22:03.360]  So once you get the ticket, you get the officer's serial number or badge number and the name.
[22:03.540 --> 22:06.080]  You already know what agency he is with.
[22:06.280 --> 22:08.100]  You have a court date to go.
[22:08.100 --> 22:15.240]  So in certain states, if the officer doesn't show up at court, the ticket's automatically dismissed.
[22:15.820 --> 22:20.700]  So you do have to go through the process of scheduling a trial date, which means posting bail at arraignment.
[22:20.840 --> 22:22.120]  But you usually don't have to go to arraignment.
[22:22.340 --> 22:24.920]  You just simply prepay the ticket.
[22:25.500 --> 22:27.380]  But you don't want it on your record, of course.
[22:28.400 --> 22:37.920]  So, once you have the court date, then it's just a matter of calling what they call subpoena control at the agency, usually like LAPD, California Highway Patrol.
[22:38.560 --> 22:47.340]  And, of course, I wouldn't recommend this, but some people in the past have impersonated the court and they told the subpoena control that the court date has been trailed to a different date.
[22:51.060 --> 22:52.200]  Like a week later.
[22:52.580 --> 22:54.900]  So what happens is the cop doesn't show up.
[22:54.900 --> 22:57.960]  The judge dismisses the ticket and you're done.
[23:05.720 --> 23:08.300]  Okay, we're ready to do the first, the first call.
[23:09.000 --> 23:10.020]  Hopefully the first of many.
[23:10.360 --> 23:11.820]  Is there anything I need to know about this contraption?
[23:12.020 --> 23:12.540]  Just pick it up?
[23:12.700 --> 23:14.000]  I thought you were going to say something, but I can say it later.
[23:14.120 --> 23:14.780]  Yeah, you can say it later.
[23:15.280 --> 23:15.480]  All right.
[23:15.980 --> 23:16.440]  Pick it up.
[23:16.500 --> 23:17.380]  Do I hit a thing?
[23:19.140 --> 23:20.340]  Press that in.
[23:20.420 --> 23:21.940]  Press the handset.
[23:22.020 --> 23:23.060]  Press the handset in.
[23:23.160 --> 23:23.840]  And then you can hear me.
[23:24.380 --> 23:25.100]  Okay, got it.
[23:25.320 --> 23:25.620]  All right.
[23:26.400 --> 23:30.600]  Now, what I'm going to do, just to explain, I'm going to call a station, a gas station.
[23:30.600 --> 23:31.400]  I don't know if they're open.
[23:31.580 --> 23:33.400]  See, we didn't plan any of this out.
[23:33.500 --> 23:35.260]  It's not scripted or anything like that.
[23:35.360 --> 23:37.900]  So a large part of social engineering is failing.
[23:38.860 --> 23:40.240]  And we may fail.
[23:40.360 --> 23:41.720]  And that's something you have to get used to.
[23:41.760 --> 23:43.160]  The other thing is the quick getaway.
[23:43.420 --> 23:52.260]  When somebody makes you that you're trying to get something you're not supposed to get, you need a way to gracefully back out so that all alarms aren't raised.
[23:52.900 --> 23:54.300]  So we're going to try that now.
[23:54.600 --> 23:55.780]  So I'm about to lift the receiver.
[23:57.080 --> 23:57.500]  Okay.
[23:59.180 --> 24:00.460]  And you can bring it up.
[24:00.680 --> 24:01.560]  I'm going to dial a number now.
[24:01.860 --> 24:03.340]  I'm just picking a station at random.
[24:04.720 --> 24:05.980]  I don't have to dial nine, do I?
[24:06.220 --> 24:06.360]  No.
[24:06.720 --> 24:06.940]  Okay.
[24:34.420 --> 24:35.280]  They may be busy.
[24:40.830 --> 24:41.230]  Hello.
[24:41.470 --> 24:42.710]  We are not available now.
[24:43.030 --> 24:45.730]  Please read your name and phone number after the...
[24:45.730 --> 24:47.070]  This is another...
[24:52.270 --> 24:52.670]  Okay.
[24:53.810 --> 24:55.830]  That was the failure I was telling you about.
[24:57.770 --> 24:58.650]  I thought they'd be...
[24:58.650 --> 24:59.450]  They could be very busy.
[24:59.570 --> 25:00.330]  I'm going to try another one.
[25:00.490 --> 25:01.790]  We have a list of them here.
[25:03.070 --> 25:04.050]  Aren't they closing?
[25:04.350 --> 25:04.890]  Not yet.
[25:05.230 --> 25:06.290]  After tonight, maybe.
[25:10.010 --> 25:10.510]  All right.
[25:10.570 --> 25:11.530]  We're going to try another one.
[25:31.880 --> 25:32.800]  Good evening, Norbert.
[25:33.260 --> 25:33.720]  Oh, yeah.
[25:33.740 --> 25:33.900]  Hi.
[25:33.980 --> 25:35.860]  It's Brian over at BP Corporate.
[25:35.980 --> 25:36.640]  Who am I speaking to?
[25:37.020 --> 25:37.440]  I'm sorry?
[25:37.820 --> 25:39.480]  This is Brian over at BP Corporate.
[25:39.520 --> 25:40.180]  Who am I speaking to?
[25:42.760 --> 25:43.580]  I'm sorry.
[25:43.680 --> 25:44.180]  No understanding.
[25:44.540 --> 25:45.040]  I'm sorry.
[25:45.140 --> 25:47.940]  I'm calling from the corporate office.
[25:48.700 --> 25:49.360]  No, sir.
[25:49.360 --> 25:50.660]  Yes, I am.
[25:50.900 --> 25:52.900]  I'm calling from the corporate office in Houston.
[25:53.200 --> 25:54.920]  Yeah, tomorrow morning is office is...
[25:54.920 --> 25:55.940]  No, it's closed right now.
[25:56.360 --> 25:58.080]  Tomorrow morning 8 o'clock is open office.
[25:58.520 --> 25:59.180]  You're not...
[25:59.180 --> 26:00.620]  What is your station number?
[26:00.720 --> 26:01.300]  Can you tell me that?
[26:01.620 --> 26:02.780]  BP gas station, sir.
[26:03.240 --> 26:05.820]  Yes, I know it's BP, but what station number is this?
[26:06.360 --> 26:07.120]  Which number?
[26:07.560 --> 26:09.080]  The franchise number.
[26:10.240 --> 26:11.040]  Your street?
[26:11.520 --> 26:12.100]  I'm sorry?
[26:12.740 --> 26:13.460]  Your street number?
[26:14.400 --> 26:16.340]  The number of your gas station.
[26:17.020 --> 26:17.900]  Your phone number?
[26:17.900 --> 26:18.840]  No, no.
[26:18.960 --> 26:20.200]  The franchise number.
[26:20.980 --> 26:21.920]  I don't know, sir.
[26:22.120 --> 26:23.200]  You don't have that information.
[26:23.380 --> 26:23.640]  Okay.
[26:23.680 --> 26:25.260]  What is the manager's name?
[26:25.920 --> 26:26.780]  Yeah, we can understand.
[26:27.280 --> 26:27.680]  Okay.
[26:27.780 --> 26:28.380]  Thank you so much.
[26:28.780 --> 26:29.280]  Good night, sir.
[26:33.400 --> 26:37.380]  Sometimes, sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on.
[26:39.520 --> 26:40.920]  I'm sorry about that.
[26:41.460 --> 26:42.840]  Can I try one more?
[26:43.200 --> 26:45.400]  Maybe we'll get a better result.
[26:45.620 --> 26:46.060]  Oh, boy.
[26:47.600 --> 26:47.860]  All right.
[26:47.920 --> 26:48.240]  Don't worry.
[26:48.340 --> 26:48.660]  Don't worry.
[26:49.080 --> 26:50.080]  Patience is the key.
[27:33.230 --> 27:36.030]  This might be a good time for you to read that thing you wanted to read.
[27:36.230 --> 27:39.270]  I'll call offline and see if I can find one that answers.
[27:40.690 --> 27:41.070]  Yeah.
[27:46.500 --> 27:47.160]  Good ideas.
[27:47.320 --> 27:47.640]  Good ideas.
[27:52.860 --> 27:55.300]  Try a number not in New York City area.
[27:56.900 --> 27:59.880]  You know, they're all open when I drive around, so I don't know.
[27:59.880 --> 28:03.970]  Well, maybe one on the West Coast or something where it's business hours and...
[28:06.500 --> 28:06.920]  And...
[28:08.240 --> 28:08.660]  Maybe...
[28:10.400 --> 28:11.000]  That's right.
[28:11.860 --> 28:15.500]  Kevin pointed out that it's an interstate phone call and it adds to your penalties.
[28:23.550 --> 28:26.990]  Well, I'm going to tell a story that has nothing to do with these phone calls.
[28:27.130 --> 28:33.290]  But I tend to involve myself in the social engineering stuff that has some sort of social good thing more recently.
[28:33.290 --> 28:39.950]  And I was looking at some of the G20 protest videos from Toronto a couple, three weeks ago.
[28:41.690 --> 28:43.650]  And, yeah, some of them are pretty disturbing.
[28:43.970 --> 28:46.750]  I mean, just mass police forces.
[28:46.890 --> 28:49.670]  These guys decked out in incredible riot gear.
[28:50.850 --> 28:56.410]  And in one video I saw, the police were intimidating the crowd with a green laser, which I thought was weird.
[28:57.030 --> 29:04.210]  But then what really intrigued me, like 15 seconds more into the video, which I had hoped to show you, but it was just taken down off of YouTube, so I can't show it now.
[29:04.250 --> 29:04.890]  I should have stored it.
[29:05.010 --> 29:05.310]  My fault.
[29:05.810 --> 29:18.810]  But anyway, what I saw in the next few seconds of this video, and it was just taken at night time, the police in their riot gear were marching away from a crowd, and they all had these blue lights on the backs of their necks.
[29:19.050 --> 29:20.270]  And I'd never seen that before.
[29:20.330 --> 29:23.610]  There were like 20, 30 cops in riot gear, marching signal fire lights.
[29:23.630 --> 29:24.990]  They all had a blue light in the back of their necks.
[29:25.090 --> 29:26.170]  I'm like, what the heck is this?
[29:26.250 --> 29:29.050]  Because I'm really intrigued by technology I haven't seen before.
[29:29.250 --> 29:30.570]  I'm like, what are these blue lights?
[29:30.790 --> 29:32.810]  It was bugging me for like a week.
[29:33.010 --> 29:41.910]  And then just by dumb luck, one of the law enforcement technology magazines I subscribe to was emailed to me.
[29:42.170 --> 29:50.910]  And in that issue, there was an ad in the side column in the header for a product called triage lights.
[29:51.370 --> 29:52.150]  What is this?
[29:52.430 --> 29:53.990]  Is this possibly what I saw?
[29:54.370 --> 29:56.710]  Apparently, there's this product called triage lights.
[29:57.010 --> 29:57.950]  You know, it's spelled like triage.
[29:58.210 --> 30:08.550]  And what they are, and law enforcement are using these now, it's something to identify law enforcement to other law enforcement as friendly.
[30:10.190 --> 30:18.870]  You know, military has used this technology for years, called IFF, identification friend or foe, in radar systems, electronic countermeasures, but this is great.
[30:19.110 --> 30:31.570]  So I called the company who makes these things, convinced them that I was a dealer selling equipment to local law enforcement agencies in the Philadelphia area, and I needed a sample of one of these devices.
[30:32.170 --> 30:36.050]  And they wouldn't give it to me for free, but it wasn't... it was like 40-some dollars.
[30:37.310 --> 30:41.410]  So I gave my credit card number, they shipped it to me, and this thing is neat.
[30:42.070 --> 30:53.510]  It's about the size of a pill bottle, and you can adjust it for any color in the visible spectrum, and even infrared, and you can make it flash at different rates as well.
[30:53.510 --> 31:03.190]  So if you know the color of the day, and the duty cycle, like the flash rate of the day, you too can identify yourself as friendly to the police.
[31:03.830 --> 31:11.030]  So I brought this thing to HOPE, I didn't bring it here, it's just because I just see a light, it's not a big deal, but I'm taking it down to the hardware hacking area.
[31:11.190 --> 31:16.410]  We're going to reverse engineer this thing and publish a low-cost alternative to this.
[31:16.570 --> 31:23.990]  We want to get the brightness comparable, so it's the same brightness, and the same flash rates, and that sort of thing, so it's plausible.
[31:24.290 --> 31:33.710]  But I don't know how much it's really considered a social engineering hack, but it is fooling people when they see something into thinking it's something that it's not.
[31:33.870 --> 31:37.210]  And I think everybody should identify themselves as friendly to the police.
[31:38.230 --> 31:38.790]  So...
[31:44.430 --> 31:48.270]  Especially when they're carrying guns and clubs and things like that.
[31:48.270 --> 31:50.310]  So, just a little hack.
[31:51.110 --> 31:57.870]  We'll talk about this on Off The Hook probably in the next couple of weeks, about the solution to how you two can identify yourself as friendly to the police.
[31:57.990 --> 31:58.710]  What's your website?
[31:59.810 --> 32:03.330]  Just Off The Hook, 2600.com slash Off The Hook.
[32:03.470 --> 32:05.610]  We'll be talking about it on this show in the next couple of three weeks.
[32:05.870 --> 32:07.810]  Now, how long until someone turns into a TV-B-Gone?
[32:08.870 --> 32:11.250]  How long before somebody turns it into a TV-B-Gone?
[32:11.250 --> 32:11.450]  Yeah.
[32:11.570 --> 32:13.210]  You could, because it does...
[32:13.210 --> 32:15.370]  Well, I don't know if you can make it modulate those types of codes.
[32:16.090 --> 32:18.550]  It's just probably low flashing rates, but it's a good question.
[32:21.090 --> 32:21.670]  Ready again?
[32:21.910 --> 32:22.190]  Yes.
[32:22.350 --> 32:22.650]  All right.
[32:43.450 --> 32:43.770]  Hello?
[32:47.670 --> 32:48.250]  Yes, hi.
[32:48.350 --> 32:49.130]  Is this the BP station?
[32:49.770 --> 32:51.010]  Yes, can you hear me?
[32:51.530 --> 32:52.470]  Yeah, can I help you?
[32:52.630 --> 32:53.050]  Yeah, hi.
[32:53.130 --> 32:55.670]  It's Brian over at BP Corporate, returning your phone call.
[32:58.760 --> 32:59.940]  Who do you want to speak to?
[33:00.500 --> 33:01.700]  Well, is the manager there?
[33:02.000 --> 33:04.380]  No, there is no manager here right now.
[33:04.780 --> 33:09.420]  Okay, well, we're returning the call about the survey that is due on Monday.
[33:09.820 --> 33:10.640]  Oh, okay.
[33:11.200 --> 33:14.020]  Who would have called us on Friday afternoon?
[33:16.660 --> 33:21.620]  You have to call tomorrow and talk to the manager, because right now there is nobody that you will talk to.
[33:22.000 --> 33:23.380]  What is the manager's name?
[33:23.720 --> 33:24.100]  Billy.
[33:24.660 --> 33:25.380]  How do you spell that?
[33:26.620 --> 33:30.640]  Billy is B-I-L-L-Y.
[33:31.500 --> 33:33.520]  B-I-L-L-Y.
[33:33.720 --> 33:35.540]  B-I-L-L-Y.
[33:35.540 --> 33:35.920]  Okay.
[33:36.180 --> 33:37.700]  I-L-L-Y.
[33:38.020 --> 33:38.520]  Okay.
[33:38.620 --> 33:40.500]  We're calling from the corporate office.
[33:40.720 --> 33:44.400]  We need to get the survey back by Monday for the compensation package.
[33:45.160 --> 33:45.620]  Oh, okay.
[33:45.660 --> 33:46.080]  No problem.
[33:46.080 --> 33:50.260]  So, yeah, it's important that we get the information for all the employees.
[33:50.440 --> 33:53.340]  How many employees are at this particular facility?
[33:54.420 --> 33:59.420]  So, any question right now, you have to talk to the manager, because I cannot answer you right now.
[33:59.420 --> 34:04.680]  I understand that, but I need to have the answers by tomorrow morning, otherwise you might not get the compensation.
[34:04.740 --> 34:04.740]  That's what I'm saying.
[34:04.760 --> 34:07.600]  You can call tomorrow morning, because right now there is nobody.
[34:07.900 --> 34:08.400]  There is nobody.
[34:08.620 --> 34:10.760]  Is there a way we can reach Dilly tonight?
[34:11.840 --> 34:12.240]  Okay.
[34:12.280 --> 34:14.380]  I will have to give the cell phone number.
[34:15.060 --> 34:16.900]  You have to give him our telephone number.
[34:17.220 --> 34:18.300]  The cell phone number?
[34:18.480 --> 34:18.760]  Uh-huh.
[34:18.900 --> 34:20.340]  Well, can you give me his telephone number?
[34:20.340 --> 34:20.720]  Yes.
[34:21.060 --> 34:21.460]  Okay.
[34:21.620 --> 34:22.200]  917.
[34:22.440 --> 34:22.800]  Uh-huh.
[34:27.780 --> 34:28.420]  2934.
[34:28.860 --> 34:29.260]  Okay.
[34:29.500 --> 34:30.800]  So, what's Dilly's last name?
[34:31.260 --> 34:32.600]  Dilly's last name?
[34:32.760 --> 34:32.980]  Yes.
[34:33.200 --> 34:33.840]  Faracni.
[34:34.180 --> 34:34.980]  How do you spell that?
[34:35.460 --> 34:36.160]  Hold on.
[34:44.920 --> 34:47.020]  I think it's F-A...
[34:47.020 --> 34:47.380]  Uh-huh.
[34:48.260 --> 34:48.900]  A...
[34:50.040 --> 34:53.140]  F-A-R-A-C-N-I.
[34:53.860 --> 34:54.500]  Okay.
[34:55.120 --> 34:56.920]  And finally, what is your name?
[34:57.600 --> 34:58.160]  Maimouna.
[34:58.560 --> 34:59.500]  How do you spell that?
[35:00.550 --> 35:04.300]  M-A-I-M-O-U-N-A.
[35:04.580 --> 35:05.060]  Okay.
[35:05.240 --> 35:07.360]  Can I have your social security number just for verification?
[35:13.230 --> 35:13.710]  Hello?
[35:14.850 --> 35:15.330]  Hello?
[35:15.570 --> 35:15.850]  Yes.
[35:16.070 --> 35:18.410]  We just need the social security number for verification.
[35:19.410 --> 35:20.030]  For the what?
[35:20.410 --> 35:22.370]  For verification for the corporate office?
[35:23.630 --> 35:29.010]  You have to talk to the manager first, because if there's anything, I have to talk to him before, you know?
[35:29.270 --> 35:29.670]  Okay.
[35:29.690 --> 35:30.930]  So, you have to talk to the manager.
[35:30.930 --> 35:33.270]  But he doesn't know your social security number.
[35:33.650 --> 35:35.130]  We need your social security number.
[35:35.350 --> 35:35.790]  I know.
[35:36.110 --> 35:36.230]  I...
[35:36.230 --> 35:37.490]  Can I have the last four...
[35:37.490 --> 35:38.330]  The manager say anything?
[35:38.750 --> 35:40.950]  We should let him know before we answer anything.
[35:41.130 --> 35:41.490]  You understand?
[35:41.790 --> 35:42.070]  I understand.
[35:42.210 --> 35:43.390]  Can I have the last four digits, then?
[35:43.770 --> 35:44.130]  The what?
[35:44.370 --> 35:45.250]  The last four digits?
[35:45.290 --> 35:45.910]  That would be fine.
[35:46.370 --> 35:47.250]  Excuse me, sir.
[35:47.290 --> 35:50.790]  I cannot give you right now without, you know, my manager permission.
[35:51.050 --> 35:51.330]  You understand?
[35:51.970 --> 35:52.910]  I guess so.
[35:53.170 --> 35:53.310]  All right.
[35:53.410 --> 35:53.850]  Well, thank you.
[35:53.990 --> 35:54.290]  All right.
[35:54.410 --> 35:54.550]  Bye-bye.
[35:54.630 --> 35:55.070]  Have a good night.
[35:55.230 --> 35:55.490]  Bye-bye.
[36:02.670 --> 36:04.550]  I don't really know where I was going with that.
[36:05.330 --> 36:06.550]  It was just so much fun.
[36:06.550 --> 36:08.010]  I just kept pumping her for information.
[36:08.010 --> 36:10.010]  And, well, we got Dilly's number anyway.
[36:10.210 --> 36:11.310]  We can give him a call later on.
[36:11.430 --> 36:17.910]  And, you know, you give out somebody's home phone number or their cell phone number to a complete stranger just because they ask you to.
[36:18.450 --> 36:22.810]  She had some spirit and she was able to keep herself from giving out the social security number.
[36:22.990 --> 36:26.550]  But people are able to do things like that very easily if convinced.
[36:27.430 --> 36:37.750]  Many's the time... well, not many's the time, but at least a few times, I've done things like in college calling students and saying, can you give us your student ID number?
[36:37.850 --> 36:39.410]  Not the social security number, student ID number.
[36:39.530 --> 36:40.370]  It's the same number.
[36:40.950 --> 36:45.670]  And if you ask somebody for their social security number, you know, a flag goes up.
[36:46.110 --> 36:48.430]  But student ID, yeah, okay, that sounds official.
[36:48.630 --> 36:51.370]  And they don't think that it's the same number in the first place.
[36:52.190 --> 36:53.670]  Well, that was actually in the Bronx.
[36:53.850 --> 36:55.650]  I don't know why the West Coast would be any different than that.
[36:55.770 --> 36:59.390]  Because they might still be open and have a manager there before too late.
[37:00.010 --> 37:02.570]  Okay, well, somebody tell a quick story and I'll find something on the West Coast.
[37:03.870 --> 37:06.470]  It's also easier to social engineer people that...
[37:06.470 --> 37:07.450]  I'm not calling him.
[37:08.890 --> 37:13.730]  It's also easier to social engineer people that there's not a language barrier with.
[37:13.730 --> 37:14.530]  So...
[37:15.690 --> 37:17.350]  I would have given up a lot sooner.
[37:18.450 --> 37:20.730]  Was that a language barrier or just an attitude barrier?
[37:22.530 --> 37:36.210]  Speaking of language barriers, this is sort of a language barrier trick that people have been using, albeit for a lot of fraudulent purposes, is that most companies maintain a special phone line for hearing impaired callers.
[37:36.950 --> 37:40.750]  So you can use a TDD or a TTY, which you can...
[37:40.750 --> 37:43.490]  There's some computer software that you can use that will emulate a TDD or a TTY.
[37:43.530 --> 37:46.470]  Or you can buy them, like, at flea markets for, like, $20.
[37:46.910 --> 37:48.670]  Look, I did a talk about this at the first HOPE.
[37:48.710 --> 37:56.530]  They're like a little keyboard and acoustic coupler and a little alphanumeric display and it sends the, like, radio teletype song signals, like...
[37:56.530 --> 37:57.430]  Anyway.
[37:57.930 --> 38:04.970]  So you can call a corporate office that has their TDD, TTY1 number, and you'll directly reach a person.
[38:05.190 --> 38:08.830]  And they kind of feel sorry for you because you have an impairment.
[38:09.630 --> 38:12.770]  And you can ask them almost anything and they will...
[38:13.390 --> 38:17.810]  You get away with any suspicious inflection in your voice is completely eliminated.
[38:19.450 --> 38:19.850]  And...
[38:19.850 --> 38:20.910]  But it's sort of like a lot...
[38:20.910 --> 38:24.810]  It's kind of like typing back and forth, you know, in a chat room or something.
[38:24.950 --> 38:25.470]  But it's a...
[38:25.470 --> 38:26.370]  You're using a TTY.
[38:26.650 --> 38:30.770]  So that's one method I've used to contact companies and get things...
[38:30.770 --> 38:34.390]  Get them to do things that you could not possibly get them to do by talking to the...
[38:34.390 --> 38:39.030]  The normal frontline people that just use the spoken voice.
[38:39.290 --> 38:39.990]  So just another trick.
[38:40.310 --> 38:41.190]  I have a comment.
[38:41.670 --> 38:42.350]  The microphone, too.
[38:42.490 --> 38:43.170]  Does it work?
[38:43.530 --> 38:44.210]  Does it work?
[38:44.450 --> 38:44.530]  Oh.
[38:44.870 --> 38:45.210]  Okay.
[38:46.410 --> 38:54.950]  If you want to get someone's social security number through influence tactics, the best way to do it is what they call the scarcity behavior principle.
[38:55.350 --> 39:02.690]  And that is where you frame the question where the target, if they don't comply with the request, they're going to lose something.
[39:02.690 --> 39:12.770]  So if Eric wanted to get the target social security number, it would have been better to say that he is with payroll with BP and there's been a problem processing the payroll check.
[39:12.950 --> 39:19.190]  And unless she gives out the social security number, she will not get paid, thereby suffering a loss.
[39:19.310 --> 39:24.750]  And that is a strong influence tactic for the target to comply with the request so they don't suffer the loss.
[39:25.410 --> 39:26.230]  Good point.
[39:30.200 --> 39:39.160]  And people will do more, will comply more with doing an action to avoid a loss than to actually realize a gain.
[39:39.440 --> 39:47.000]  There's been some social studies on this topic and a guy named Robert Cialdini who wrote a book, Influence, has covered this if you're interested.
[39:47.570 --> 39:48.060]  All right.
[39:48.180 --> 39:50.500]  I'm following the advice of people here.
[39:50.580 --> 39:51.860]  I'm going to call something on the West Coast.
[39:53.380 --> 39:53.740]  Seattle?
[39:54.620 --> 39:55.240]  Is that okay?
[39:55.540 --> 39:55.700]  Yeah.
[39:55.820 --> 39:56.220]  Like Seattle?
[39:56.360 --> 39:56.540]  All right.
[39:57.440 --> 40:00.480]  I haven't called this yet so we don't know for sure it's open, but let's try it.
[40:36.750 --> 40:39.610]  I think it's a fax machine or we just went to a different country.
[40:53.510 --> 40:55.130]  Yeah, this isn't working.
[40:55.650 --> 40:56.730]  You're really striking out today.
[40:56.910 --> 40:57.770]  It's not his fault.
[40:57.870 --> 40:59.290]  He's just reaching bad numbers.
[41:01.310 --> 41:02.070]  Is it disconnect?
[41:02.430 --> 41:02.670]  Oh.
[41:02.870 --> 41:03.110]  Oh.
[41:03.750 --> 41:04.770]  Bad number you say?
[41:05.090 --> 41:06.130]  Is that a modem term?
[41:06.310 --> 41:06.730]  Yeah, it's a fax.
[41:06.730 --> 41:07.370]  That's a fax machine.
[41:07.590 --> 41:07.650]  Yeah.
[41:08.170 --> 41:09.230]  Just fax your question.
[41:09.790 --> 41:10.190]  All right.
[41:10.190 --> 41:14.830]  Well, just because they're on the West Coast doesn't mean they're open either.
[41:16.730 --> 41:22.670]  What I can do is call some while somebody else tells a story and simply call that one back.
[41:23.450 --> 41:24.810]  Anyone else have any other story?
[41:24.990 --> 41:25.390]  Another story?
[41:25.470 --> 41:25.950]  You want another one?
[41:26.070 --> 41:26.250]  Yeah.
[41:26.310 --> 41:27.310]  Another story from Kevin Mitnick.
[41:28.110 --> 41:28.810]  I'm trying to think.
[41:31.370 --> 41:32.490]  Oh, here's a good one.
[41:34.470 --> 41:37.250]  My autobiography is being published next year by Little Brown.
[41:37.430 --> 41:39.770]  And this is a story I haven't told, but that's going to be in the book.
[41:40.190 --> 41:45.230]  So it's kind of like a view into some of the social engineering antics I did.
[41:45.850 --> 41:46.890]  Well, I remember I hacked Motorola.
[41:47.030 --> 41:47.730]  I got the source code.
[41:47.970 --> 41:51.990]  But one thing I was lacking was the compiler to actually compile the code.
[41:52.790 --> 41:58.470]  So my next target was this company called Intrametrics, which was based out of Massachusetts.
[41:59.650 --> 42:06.610]  And I was able to get into Intrametrics, and it was using a technical exploit to get into their actual network.
[42:07.550 --> 42:19.230]  And so the object was to look at their network, look at where their workstations and servers were to actually find the source code product releases for the 68HC11 chip that was in the iPhone itself.
[42:20.730 --> 42:25.510]  So I looked around, and the first thing I did was go to the domain and look at the /etc/aliases file.
[42:25.750 --> 42:34.630]  Because what they do is, back in those days, they would actually have departments and individuals, and you could easily work out who had access to information.
[42:35.830 --> 42:40.070]  And through the aliases file, I found an engineering group and a list of engineers.
[42:40.070 --> 42:41.090]  Really easy.
[42:41.650 --> 42:44.730]  And then so their workstations were compromised.
[42:45.130 --> 42:48.190]  And the problem was I couldn't find the compiler.
[42:48.430 --> 42:49.790]  I couldn't find the source code.
[42:49.930 --> 42:52.830]  I couldn't find the binaries that released to the market.
[42:53.010 --> 42:54.450]  But I did find a script.
[42:54.690 --> 42:58.230]  And the script in one of the engineers directories was called make-product.
[42:58.550 --> 42:59.710]  Well, actually make-prod.
[42:59.850 --> 43:05.930]  And it had the locations on the network to build the source code and where the product releases were.
[43:05.930 --> 43:08.850]  And when I went to those machines, nothing was there.
[43:09.830 --> 43:12.150]  So now it was time for a little bit of social engineering.
[43:12.990 --> 43:15.970]  So in the Elias file, I found their sales group.
[43:16.130 --> 43:20.010]  And one of their sales offices was in Washington, D.C.
[43:20.670 --> 43:22.390]  And I already knew who the engineers were.
[43:22.750 --> 43:25.870]  So I called up one of the lead engineers, this guy named Marty.
[43:26.590 --> 43:30.970]  And I said I was David Burton over in the Washington, D.C.
[43:31.130 --> 43:31.330]  office.
[43:31.330 --> 43:32.410]  I'm a sales engineer.
[43:32.850 --> 43:35.910]  The first thing he asked me, he goes, you know, what office are you in?
[43:35.930 --> 43:36.830]  I tell him the office.
[43:37.010 --> 43:38.010]  He asked me who I work for.
[43:38.110 --> 43:39.190]  I told him who I work for.
[43:40.010 --> 43:43.150]  And he goes, I told him the problem.
[43:43.250 --> 43:45.070]  I said, I have a sales meeting tomorrow.
[43:45.250 --> 43:48.750]  I have an older version of the H68HC11 compiler.
[43:49.510 --> 43:53.070]  And I want to show the potential client the newest release.
[43:54.110 --> 43:56.490]  And he goes, well, you know, he goes, can you keep a secret?
[43:58.170 --> 43:58.530]  Huh?
[44:00.670 --> 44:02.130]  Of course I can keep a secret.
[44:02.130 --> 44:02.990]  He goes, listen.
[44:03.290 --> 44:07.410]  He goes, the reason you can't find anything is we got a call from the FBI.
[44:09.310 --> 44:09.710]  What?
[44:09.710 --> 44:12.410]  Yeah, we got a call from the FBI in Los Angeles.
[44:12.570 --> 44:20.030]  Apparently, this super hacker is going to break into our systems to get our compiler because he hacked into Motorola.
[44:20.510 --> 44:24.030]  And the FBI said that was his next logical step.
[44:33.320 --> 44:35.760]  So I told Marty, I said, you have to be kidding.
[44:35.940 --> 44:38.260]  I mean, come on, I really don't have time to joke around.
[44:38.440 --> 44:42.120]  I mean, really, why isn't the code out there?
[44:42.320 --> 44:43.860]  And he goes, no, seriously.
[44:44.040 --> 44:46.420]  He goes, this guy hacked into the CIA.
[44:46.700 --> 44:48.380]  He got level three access.
[44:48.760 --> 44:51.520]  I mean, there's a manhunt for this guy.
[44:51.920 --> 44:53.940]  And I go, what's this guy's name?
[44:54.180 --> 44:56.320]  He goes, I have no idea.
[44:56.620 --> 44:57.780]  I said, wow.
[44:57.940 --> 45:00.640]  I go, I didn't hear anything about it.
[45:00.700 --> 45:03.440]  I said, but believe me, I'll keep it a secret.
[45:03.440 --> 45:04.840]  I promise I won't tell anybody.
[45:08.440 --> 45:12.000]  And I said, you know, I still have the problem, Marty.
[45:12.140 --> 45:13.220]  He goes, what do you mean you have the problem?
[45:13.220 --> 45:14.800]  I said, I have the sales meeting tomorrow.
[45:15.120 --> 45:19.820]  I need to show the client the latest compiler, else we could lose the deal, lose revenue.
[45:20.700 --> 45:23.520]  He says, all right, this is what I can do.
[45:23.800 --> 45:26.260]  I can upload the compiler to my workstation.
[45:26.580 --> 45:30.080]  I'll let you grab the copy, and then I'll remove it from my workstation.
[45:32.840 --> 45:35.100]  I said, you know, Marty, I said, this is a great idea.
[45:35.260 --> 45:38.880]  In fact, when I copy it over, I'll actually remove it to my workstation.
[45:38.960 --> 45:42.020]  I'll put it on removable media, so it's not even on my workstation either.
[45:42.120 --> 45:42.900]  Is that a good idea?
[45:43.180 --> 45:44.180]  And he says, yes.
[45:46.840 --> 45:48.340]  So he uploads it to his workstation.
[45:48.460 --> 45:49.140]  I copy it.
[45:49.840 --> 45:54.860]  And of course, I removed it by sending it over to a system over in Colorado.
[45:55.340 --> 45:59.700]  And I don't think Marty knows to this day that he was actually speaking to the hacker.
[46:02.100 --> 46:03.640]  He'll find out when he reads the book.
[46:12.410 --> 46:17.930]  But I was actually really surprised that the FBI actually thought one step ahead of me at that moment.
[46:18.170 --> 46:20.150]  But thanks to Marty, I found out pretty quickly.
[46:22.770 --> 46:25.850]  Okay, after a while, you know when it's time to give up.
[46:26.570 --> 46:28.290]  And I have not yet reached that time.
[46:28.570 --> 46:30.430]  But it's coming.
[46:30.630 --> 46:30.990]  It really is.
[46:31.050 --> 46:32.590]  I tried a bunch more in Seattle.
[46:32.730 --> 46:33.350]  None of them answered.
[46:33.470 --> 46:34.450]  I don't know what's going on out there.
[46:34.750 --> 46:36.850]  But I did find another one in the Bronx that answered.
[46:37.010 --> 46:40.450]  So with your permission, I'll try another one up north.
[46:40.790 --> 46:41.070]  All right.
[46:41.710 --> 46:44.090]  I don't know what kind of attitude I'll run into this time, but we'll give it a shot.
[46:44.410 --> 46:46.650]  I'll try a different tactic this time to get some information.
[47:06.230 --> 47:06.990]  Good evening, BP.
[47:07.430 --> 47:07.830]  Yeah, hi.
[47:07.930 --> 47:08.790]  It's Ray over at Verizon.
[47:08.930 --> 47:10.410]  We're having some trouble finding your location.
[47:10.690 --> 47:11.730]  Can you tell me how to get there?
[47:12.290 --> 47:19.510]  Yeah, our location is 481 East, 163rd Street, Browns, New York, 10456.
[47:19.630 --> 47:19.850]  Okay.
[47:20.010 --> 47:21.810]  And what is the trouble that you're having with the phone?
[47:24.770 --> 47:28.590]  I'm not that sure because I am working here.
[47:28.770 --> 47:30.090]  The manager is left already.
[47:30.970 --> 47:34.510]  So what's the complaint he reported to you?
[47:34.770 --> 47:36.490]  Yeah, the report came in earlier.
[47:37.110 --> 47:38.950]  How many phone lines do you have?
[47:39.450 --> 47:39.930]  Phones?
[47:40.490 --> 47:41.070]  I'm sorry?
[47:41.930 --> 47:42.950]  Say it again, sir.
[47:43.170 --> 47:44.670]  How many phone lines do you have?
[47:44.950 --> 47:45.170]  Two.
[47:45.470 --> 47:46.170]  Two phone lines.
[47:47.030 --> 47:48.630]  Obviously, it's not the one I'm talking to you on.
[47:48.670 --> 47:49.770]  What's the number of the other phone?
[47:51.030 --> 47:54.370]  Other phone number is mainly using for the fax.
[47:54.790 --> 47:55.190]  Right.
[47:56.030 --> 47:59.330]  I am not sure what that number is.
[48:01.610 --> 48:03.690]  If you hold for me.
[48:04.110 --> 48:05.150]  I'd appreciate it.
[48:05.410 --> 48:06.150]  I'd attend to you.
[48:16.560 --> 48:21.220]  Yeah, the fax number is 718-402.
[48:24.360 --> 48:24.960]  Okay.
[48:25.700 --> 48:29.400]  And when was the last time you received a fax?
[48:30.180 --> 48:33.560]  Oh, I don't really know because I don't deal with that, right?
[48:33.560 --> 48:33.680]  I don't deal with it.
[48:34.020 --> 48:34.380]  Okay.
[48:35.280 --> 48:37.520]  Um, all right.
[48:37.640 --> 48:42.260]  Do you use this for any kind of data transmissions, credit card transactions, that kind of thing?
[48:42.400 --> 48:42.760]  Pardon me?
[48:43.020 --> 48:45.880]  Do you use the phone line for any kind of credit card transactions?
[48:48.480 --> 48:48.840]  Big?
[48:49.180 --> 48:50.620]  Yes, I brought all of them yesterday.
[48:50.920 --> 48:52.580]  There's only one more pack left over there.
[48:52.640 --> 48:53.120]  So I need more.
[48:53.760 --> 48:54.860]  No, we have more.
[48:55.220 --> 48:55.700]  You have more?
[48:55.700 --> 48:56.600]  How many do you want?
[48:57.260 --> 48:57.880]  How many do you want?
[49:00.360 --> 49:15.280]  Sir, uh, these things I don't really know because, uh, you understand that, you know, the manager is taking care of all the, uh, this, uh, so when I receive the last, uh, uh, thing, I don't know.
[49:15.600 --> 49:15.980]  Okay.
[49:16.420 --> 49:18.660]  Um, can you give me the manager's name, please?
[49:19.020 --> 49:19.460]  Pardon me?
[49:19.620 --> 49:21.160]  Can I have the manager's name?
[49:21.620 --> 49:23.760]  Manager's name is, uh, Saju.
[49:23.760 --> 49:23.800]  Thank you.
[49:24.280 --> 49:25.740]  Sir, I don't have many more.
[49:25.880 --> 49:29.300]  I was talking, I was thinking about you, you may asking for the ice.
[49:29.840 --> 49:30.320]  No.
[49:30.780 --> 49:32.040]  No, this one you're asking for.
[49:32.540 --> 49:34.180]  No, no, no, no, no, sir.
[49:37.840 --> 49:38.320]  Dollar.
[49:39.500 --> 49:40.060]  For what?
[49:41.100 --> 49:41.580]  2410.
[49:42.500 --> 49:42.980]  Okay.
[49:43.400 --> 49:44.100]  Pitch pump.
[49:44.760 --> 49:45.080]  14.
[49:45.480 --> 49:45.860]  Okay.
[49:48.120 --> 49:49.260]  Say, uh, hello, sir?
[49:49.480 --> 49:50.180]  Yes, I'm sorry.
[49:50.720 --> 49:52.540]  Uh, I realize you're busy.
[49:52.840 --> 49:53.180]  Good night.
[49:54.360 --> 49:54.820]  Hello?
[49:55.060 --> 49:55.300]  Yes.
[49:56.200 --> 50:01.360]  Um, now, uh, do you have a, uh, the station number, your, your franchise number?
[50:03.900 --> 50:06.780]  Uh, like, uh, what you are asking for?
[50:06.780 --> 50:09.580]  For, for BP, because we work with BP corporate.
[50:10.220 --> 50:14.080]  And, uh, we just need that station number for, because we don't have that on our, our address.
[50:14.400 --> 50:17.300]  This, uh, uh, address would be fine, right?
[50:17.520 --> 50:17.920]  I'm sorry?
[50:18.140 --> 50:19.960]  This address would be fine, right?
[50:20.460 --> 50:21.300]  Uh, we...
[50:21.300 --> 50:22.780]  The address I told you earlier?
[50:23.240 --> 50:29.580]  Right, uh, and that wasn't coming up in our records, because BP has, um, has, uh, a master, uh, account with us.
[50:29.800 --> 50:30.380]  Oh, is it?
[50:30.460 --> 50:31.740]  And we don't have the station number.
[50:31.880 --> 50:32.420]  That's the problem.
[50:33.080 --> 50:33.400]  Shit.
[50:34.500 --> 50:34.820]  Shit.
[50:34.820 --> 50:37.320]  So, uh, where I will find out the station number.
[50:37.680 --> 50:46.460]  Uh, if I check it with your Verizon, uh, Verizon, uh, bill, it will be fine.
[50:46.680 --> 50:48.120]  Uh, do you have the Verizon bill there?
[50:48.320 --> 50:49.160]  Yeah, it's here.
[50:49.300 --> 50:52.860]  If you could read the numbers off the top, that would, that would answer all of my questions.
[50:52.860 --> 50:56.020]  Uh, is it, um, uh, it's like AT or RN.
[50:56.160 --> 50:57.780]  You start with IAT or RN?
[50:58.200 --> 51:00.080]  Uh, the one all the way on the left.
[51:01.080 --> 51:04.820]  Uh, zero, zero, zero, zero, three, four, three, one.
[51:05.760 --> 51:06.200]  Huh?
[51:06.800 --> 51:08.700]  Uh, uh, there's, there's more, isn't there?
[51:09.020 --> 51:09.460]  Pardon me?
[51:09.580 --> 51:11.040]  There, the other numbers as well.
[51:12.020 --> 51:18.720]  Yeah, zero, zero, zero, zero, zeroes, then three, four, three, one.
[51:19.420 --> 51:19.820]  Okay.
[51:20.280 --> 51:24.220]  Then zero, one, then 80.
[51:24.840 --> 51:26.680]  Okay, I think, I think I've got it from there.
[51:27.260 --> 51:28.060]  Oh, okay.
[51:28.300 --> 51:31.040]  Okay, and, uh, what, what are, uh, you, 24 hours?
[51:31.640 --> 51:32.040]  Yes.
[51:32.440 --> 51:33.940]  Okay, so there will always be somebody there.
[51:34.100 --> 51:36.020]  We're, we're running a little late with the heat and all that.
[51:36.280 --> 51:36.940]  Oh, I see.
[51:36.940 --> 51:45.760]  But, you know, these, all the information's, uh, probably, uh, nobody can, you know, nobody else can give it.
[51:47.120 --> 51:47.520]  Right.
[51:47.780 --> 51:49.960]  But we're Verizon, so we already have that information.
[51:50.280 --> 51:50.540]  Huh?
[51:50.780 --> 51:53.440]  Yeah, if we already have all the information, we just needed to verify it.
[51:54.080 --> 51:54.700]  Oh, yeah.
[51:54.960 --> 51:55.280]  All right?
[51:55.320 --> 51:56.220]  So this is good, right?
[51:56.540 --> 51:57.900]  It's perfect, yes.
[51:57.980 --> 51:58.580]  Thank you very much.
[51:58.720 --> 52:00.540]  And we will have somebody there as soon as possible.
[52:00.760 --> 52:04.840]  If we're able to fix the line remotely, then, uh, we'll be able to do this without a trouble call.
[52:04.840 --> 52:07.780]  Uh, and, uh, your line should be working fine.
[52:08.000 --> 52:15.980]  But, you know, to, to go, um, to, to, to start the repair works, you, you need to go into the office, right?
[52:16.220 --> 52:16.940]  Right, yes.
[52:17.080 --> 52:18.440]  There will be somebody in the office, correct?
[52:18.680 --> 52:22.080]  Yeah, but, um, in the night, uh, there won't be anybody.
[52:22.800 --> 52:24.440]  Oh, are you not in the office now?
[52:25.100 --> 52:34.220]  No, because, um, in the counter, um, uh, that is, uh, uh, office is separate, it's locked, uh, by the manager.
[52:34.400 --> 52:38.660]  Now, I am here, I am working, um, a partner.
[52:39.020 --> 52:42.560]  That's why I could be able to go inside and verify for you the number.
[52:42.640 --> 52:43.880]  Oh, because you don't have the key.
[52:44.240 --> 52:48.020]  Yeah, I have the key, but I will leave from here at 11 o'clock today.
[52:48.020 --> 52:54.140]  Okay, uh, it's currently 5 to 10, so if we're, if we have somebody there by 10.30, would you be able to get into the office?
[52:55.140 --> 52:55.680]  I'm sorry?
[52:55.980 --> 52:57.200]  Tomorrow or when?
[52:58.120 --> 52:59.360]  Uh, it would be tonight.
[52:59.540 --> 53:01.740]  If we're there by 10.30, would you be able to get into the office?
[53:02.560 --> 53:08.320]  Oh, uh, today 10.30, but then how long they will take, uh, the...
[53:08.320 --> 53:13.000]  It's really just to check the line to see if it's, uh, if it's got a condition on it.
[53:13.120 --> 53:15.300]  It shouldn't take any longer than 5, 10 minutes at the max.
[53:15.300 --> 53:19.700]  Then it would be fine, because tomorrow I need to drive all the way to Baltimore.
[53:20.000 --> 53:21.860]  Okay, I understand that.
[53:22.160 --> 53:27.060]  Um, now, the other, it's, um, uh, the guy's technician, the technician's name is Ray.
[53:27.840 --> 53:28.220]  Ray?
[53:28.740 --> 53:32.680]  And, uh, he, um, I'm not sure he'll be in a Verizon van.
[53:32.880 --> 53:35.000]  He might actually just be in a regular minivan.
[53:35.240 --> 53:35.460]  This is early.
[53:35.600 --> 53:36.680]  It's already 10 o'clock.
[53:36.980 --> 53:37.340]  Yes.
[53:38.460 --> 53:38.580]  So...
[53:38.580 --> 53:39.860]  Where is he driving from?
[53:40.240 --> 53:42.320]  Well, we've had a lot of calls because of the heat.
[53:42.580 --> 53:44.820]  Uh, a lot of, uh, a lot of failures on the phone.
[53:44.820 --> 53:46.940]  I'm sure you know that the phones fail a lot in the heat.
[53:47.600 --> 53:47.960]  Wow.
[53:47.960 --> 53:51.460]  And, um, what's gonna happen is, uh, we're trying to get to as many as possible.
[53:52.040 --> 53:56.080]  Uh, if, if we can't fix this immediately under central office, what we'll do is we'll send somebody out.
[53:56.220 --> 53:57.240]  He'll be there by 10.30.
[53:57.380 --> 53:59.680]  If not by then, then first thing in the morning.
[53:59.960 --> 54:01.260]  And there will be somebody there as well.
[54:01.440 --> 54:01.620]  Correct?
[54:01.980 --> 54:02.920]  Tomorrow is Sunday.
[54:03.340 --> 54:03.640]  Right.
[54:04.340 --> 54:04.880]  Number 11?
[54:04.880 --> 54:06.540]  Yeah, we're working around the clock.
[54:06.780 --> 54:08.120]  We're trying to, we're trying to fix all this.
[54:08.300 --> 54:08.420]  That's good.
[54:10.200 --> 54:10.560]  All right.
[54:10.600 --> 54:11.160]  Well, thank you very much.
[54:11.260 --> 54:11.900]  You've been very helpful.
[54:12.200 --> 54:15.100]  And, uh, by Monday, everything should definitely be, be working just fine.
[54:15.300 --> 54:15.620]  Okay.
[54:15.780 --> 54:16.080]  Thank you very much.
[54:16.100 --> 54:16.420]  All right.
[54:16.520 --> 54:16.840]  Take care.
[54:24.390 --> 54:27.070]  I, I think we could have kept that guy on the phone for another half hour.
[54:28.230 --> 54:29.150]  But here's the thing.
[54:29.350 --> 54:29.490]  All right.
[54:29.490 --> 54:36.970]  I've just, I've just made it okay to come by his station with an unmarked vehicle and go into his office just because I called on the phone.
[54:37.130 --> 54:41.710]  I mean, that's, that's, and I hope we didn't give out too much information to, uh, for somebody to actually do that tonight.
[54:42.210 --> 54:45.570]  But, but if you are going to do that, you better do it soon because he leaves in an hour.
[54:48.910 --> 54:49.470]  It's unbelievable.
[54:49.510 --> 54:50.710]  That's the best I can do.
[54:50.830 --> 54:51.950]  We only have a few minutes left.
[54:52.110 --> 54:53.410]  So any closing comments?
[54:53.410 --> 54:54.730]  We, we have to keep to the schedule.
[54:55.450 --> 54:56.490]  I can do the story.
[54:57.370 --> 54:58.370]  Everybody wants you to call Billy.
[54:58.470 --> 54:58.530]  Okay.
[54:58.730 --> 55:03.730]  No, we're not, uh, no, we're not calling him because first of all, his number has already been given out.
[55:03.870 --> 55:08.430]  He's getting a phone call from that woman at the gas station right now who's chewing his ear off or something.
[55:08.850 --> 55:10.770]  Uh, and, uh, Dilly was his name, right?
[55:10.810 --> 55:11.610]  Is it Dilly or Billy?
[55:11.810 --> 55:11.990]  Billy.
[55:11.990 --> 55:12.390]  Is it Billy?
[55:12.570 --> 55:12.790]  All right.
[55:12.850 --> 55:13.090]  Whatever.
[55:13.250 --> 55:14.930]  I'm still not gonna, I didn't write down his number.
[55:15.050 --> 55:15.750]  So I can call him.
[55:16.670 --> 55:17.450]  You can call her back.
[55:17.670 --> 55:18.270]  That's the thing.
[55:18.370 --> 55:23.590]  You know, don't keep more information than you need to keep because, uh, it can, it can be a hindrance at times.
[55:23.790 --> 55:27.610]  And also know how to back out gracefully so that people don't call the cops and things.
[55:27.970 --> 55:40.190]  Are you finding, uh, are you finding, uh, when you make calls like this that, uh, over the past few years, uh, frontline people you normally have to deal with, um, are typically not, uh, native English speakers.
[55:40.190 --> 55:44.410]  And it's, and the same problems we have getting, like, tech support or something, talking to people like this.
[55:44.690 --> 55:50.370]  Um, it's, it's often difficult to, uh, uh, social engineer them just because there's a language barrier.
[55:50.630 --> 55:53.290]  You just have to change the way you, uh, you present yourself.
[55:53.410 --> 55:55.050]  I mean... Does it present an opportunity, though?
[55:55.210 --> 55:56.670]  It definitely presents opportunities.
[55:56.850 --> 55:57.890]  Everything presents an opportunity.
[55:58.130 --> 56:06.170]  And in fact, you can call yourself as somebody who doesn't speak English and people will tell you more because they're trying to get you off the phone and they're trying to explain things slowly and loudly.
[56:06.570 --> 56:14.550]  And they'll just, uh, they'll read all kinds of things off to you that normally they wouldn't read to somebody who spoke at their level of, uh, of, uh, language.
[56:15.170 --> 56:23.410]  And, uh, yeah, many times we've been able to get information that way, just by speaking with a crazy accent or pretending that we don't understand what they're talking about.
[56:23.550 --> 56:26.170]  So they'll just keep feeding information to get rid of us.
[56:27.970 --> 56:29.570]  Any, uh, any last comments?
[56:31.050 --> 56:35.790]  It's absolutely unbelievable how many places and things you can get out of people by just saying you're the phone company.
[56:35.790 --> 56:37.330]  It still works to this day.
[56:37.590 --> 56:43.490]  I mean, I can, I, there are many times where I've gotten into places I should not have been by just having a clipboard and saying, I'm Verizon.
[56:44.610 --> 56:47.650]  People just opened doors, unlocked things, safes were opened.
[56:47.950 --> 56:53.770]  I mean, things I should not have been anywhere near by just having a clipboard and saying, I'm the phone company.
[56:53.850 --> 56:58.290]  A clipboard or a lot of keys, uh, this is a good trick.
[56:58.430 --> 57:07.150]  I mean, I don't advise this, but just walk up to a bouncer outside a club with a clipboard, ask him what his name is, check him off, say, okay, you're where you're supposed to be, and then move him.
[57:07.330 --> 57:08.770]  Say, can you stand by this door instead?
[57:10.470 --> 57:10.950]  You know?
[57:13.090 --> 57:14.150]  This is not theoretical.
[57:14.210 --> 57:15.810]  This happens, and it's pretty easy.
[57:15.930 --> 57:18.610]  It doesn't happen just on TV, and then you have control over that door.
[57:18.710 --> 57:19.910]  Before you know it, you're running the club.
[57:21.030 --> 57:23.630]  There was a good one at Caltech.
[57:24.270 --> 57:24.690]  What's that?
[57:24.890 --> 57:25.970]  There was a good one at Caltech.
[57:26.710 --> 57:31.550]  Some years ago, if you find the book, if at all possible involve a cow, which is a great record of college pranks.
[57:31.670 --> 57:33.910]  There was one at Caltech, which is where I grew up near Caltech.
[57:34.630 --> 57:43.610]  Apparently, at one point, a bunch of students poured dry ice all over the street and went around with clipboards and white lab coats, stopping cars and saying, no, guys, the cyclotron is eating up the street.
[57:43.770 --> 57:45.010]  You need to go somewhere else.
[57:48.840 --> 57:51.140]  Okay, folks, we're out of time, but a couple of announcements.
[57:51.140 --> 57:58.800]  All the talks in Lovelace and Bell are delayed one hour, except for the Telephone Pioneer talk, which is beginning now after this one.
[57:58.960 --> 58:00.960]  And those of you who like phones, that's the place to be.
[58:01.700 --> 58:08.680]  Robert Steele is going to be in this room at midnight instead of Lovelace, and the Hacker Cinema will be beginning at 1 a.m.
[58:08.840 --> 58:09.500]  in Lovelace.
[58:09.860 --> 58:10.560]  And the concerts?
[58:10.740 --> 58:11.700]  Gus, tell us about the concerts.
[58:11.920 --> 58:18.920]  The concerts, we're having 8-bit and chiptune and circuit-mending concerts, 11.30 down on the second floor in the Video Temple.
[58:19.080 --> 58:20.660]  It was a lot of fun last night.
[58:20.660 --> 58:21.320]  Thank you, everybody.
[58:21.580 --> 58:21.940]  It was great.
[58:21.940 --> 58:26.760]  Club-Mate on sale all night long, and all kinds of other fun stuff going on the second floor.
[58:27.020 --> 58:27.800]  Thanks, everybody.
[58:27.900 --> 58:28.500]  We'll see you next time.
[58:39.730 --> 58:45.650]  Once again, content provided by www.mediaarchives.com.
[58:45.650 --> 58:48.890]  Whatever you're doing in life, it should be social engineering.
[58:48.890 --> 58:49.550]  Oh.
[58:49.570 --> 58:50.290]  My.
[58:50.590 --> 58:51.150]  God.
[58:56.250 --> 58:56.650]  David.
[58:57.690 --> 58:58.490]  Large.
[58:58.970 --> 58:59.730]  Awesome.
[59:00.350 --> 59:00.970]  I'm sorry.
[59:01.110 --> 59:01.570]  You can't do more.
[59:01.930 --> 59:02.650]  That's great.
[59:02.650 --> 59:02.970]  located in blue later.
[59:02.970 --> 59:02.990]  Good.
[59:03.230 --> 59:03.410]  Thank you, everybody, all we love to see you at random times today.