[00:00.000 --> 00:07.640]  I have no idea why any of you aren't in the social engineering panel, because that's always extremely entertaining, but...
[00:07.640 --> 00:08.660]  Oh, that's going on now?
[00:09.020 --> 00:09.460]  Oh, okay.
[00:14.380 --> 00:15.100]  Okay, good.
[00:15.200 --> 00:16.340]  We got rid of one person.
[00:16.800 --> 00:27.300]  So this will be somewhat... there's some lots of really entertaining things to look at in this topic, but I'm the only person in the room who's going to get to see them.
[00:28.340 --> 00:30.940]  So I'm just going to, like, start my slideshow.
[00:31.380 --> 00:31.840]  I know, thank you.
[00:33.000 --> 00:36.740]  Like, you know, I asked the wrong person if it was... everything was all set.
[00:36.920 --> 00:43.380]  The person... you should always ask the AV people if they have the equipment, not just some random guy with a number two badge.
[00:44.600 --> 00:46.180]  Or a presentation of your iPhone?
[00:47.080 --> 00:47.520]  Book.
[00:48.720 --> 00:50.480]  Yeah, no, that would be a little too much.
[00:50.860 --> 00:56.820]  So the basic topic here is ghosts and zombies in the machine, which is just a kind of...
[00:56.820 --> 01:02.800]  completely random collection of just things that I find a little interesting and strange about the Internet.
[01:05.600 --> 01:16.760]  This is kind of two topics that... and I'll be focusing on two topics that are of... I've found kind of fascinating that have definitely kind of flourished in the last few years.
[01:16.760 --> 01:23.100]  The first one is... there's no real kind of official term of art.
[01:23.360 --> 01:27.300]  So you can call them web ghosts or zombie pages or whatever.
[01:27.640 --> 01:33.440]  And it's just the existence of all the... you know, you've got... what?
[01:33.560 --> 01:36.340]  There's hundreds of millions of blogs now.
[01:36.600 --> 01:37.040]  There's like...
[01:37.980 --> 01:39.040]  Nine to... exactly.
[01:39.460 --> 01:49.780]  All the pages and websites... I mean, sure, there's all the kind of like, you know, there's the kind of the infinite cruft of the Internet and the web where just...
[01:49.780 --> 01:58.400]  there's abandoned websites that like, you know, just kind of slowly fade away or just are existing on the Internet archive and stuff.
[01:58.400 --> 02:03.480]  But what's more interesting is all these personal blogs and profiles of all these people.
[02:03.880 --> 02:07.240]  And then the people die and the pages don't.
[02:07.560 --> 02:14.180]  And it's like, this is something that I came on to originally when...
[02:14.180 --> 02:18.740]  One of my friends up in Boston who is...
[02:19.740 --> 02:20.260]  Oh!
[02:22.220 --> 02:26.660]  Of course, this is like a cool dongle, but it's not... I don't think it's the iBook one.
[02:26.940 --> 02:27.020]  No.
[02:27.940 --> 02:30.460]  Yeah, yeah, but it's, it's, you know, it's nice and white.
[02:32.600 --> 02:38.360]  So, you know, it has to have the completely, you know, proprietary little, yeah, tiny little thing.
[02:41.280 --> 02:43.700]  I'm sure it's somebody here could do it.
[02:43.820 --> 02:46.000]  Well, the only problem is, is the wireless doesn't work here.
[02:46.240 --> 02:50.020]  So you'd have... well, I mean, you'd have to plug in the computer to the...
[02:52.540 --> 02:56.360]  Well, I was doing like PowerPoint and the web and all these things and...
[03:02.040 --> 03:03.080]  Yeah, we could do that.
[03:07.380 --> 03:08.320]  So, either way.
[03:09.460 --> 03:12.000]  And, yeah, okay, well, if you want to come up and we can...
[03:12.000 --> 03:13.860]  And you can join the presentation as well.
[03:15.360 --> 03:15.780]  All right.
[03:16.460 --> 03:18.560]  So I think we should give him a round of applause.
[03:18.680 --> 03:22.040]  Well, we should give him a round of applause and then we'll find out if this actually works.
[03:22.040 --> 03:22.120]  Thanks.
[03:22.920 --> 03:23.680]  No tricks!
[03:24.920 --> 03:25.980]  So, let's see.
[03:26.140 --> 03:28.200]  Actually, the...
[03:28.200 --> 03:29.440]  I would recommend...
[03:29.440 --> 03:30.160]  Your cube!
[03:44.460 --> 03:45.300]  Should we do that?
[03:46.420 --> 03:47.500]  That's probably the... yeah.
[03:51.870 --> 03:52.970]  Do-de-de-de-de-de-de.
[03:53.150 --> 03:53.530]  Okay.
[03:53.670 --> 03:56.810]  So we're going to make a little, nice little package and stick it on a flash drive.
[03:56.810 --> 03:56.830]  Yeah.
[04:03.750 --> 04:05.310]  So, that's one topic.
[04:05.470 --> 04:07.070]  And then another one is...
[04:07.070 --> 04:10.190]  Which is really completely unrelated except that you could call...
[04:10.190 --> 04:19.510]  It's, you know, other than the zombie concept is of kind of the zombie armies and blue-bitty-blue, which are just like, you know, all the botnets.
[04:19.650 --> 04:25.110]  And I'm sure there are people here who know considerably more about it than me who are here.
[04:25.110 --> 04:29.330]  But I don't think anybody's really giving a talk about them.
[04:29.510 --> 04:32.130]  So, you know, I get to be the person doing it.
[04:32.150 --> 04:32.810]  Which wire?
[04:35.750 --> 04:36.530]  This is the...
[04:36.530 --> 04:37.650]  Yeah, this is the...
[04:37.650 --> 04:39.330]  That's for the projector.
[04:43.870 --> 04:44.750]  And the...
[04:45.510 --> 04:47.570]  And those are, again, like...
[04:47.570 --> 04:54.310]  Botnets have seen, you know, kind of extraordinary growth in the last, you know, few years.
[04:54.310 --> 04:58.650]  And there's kind of some really interesting stuff going on with that.
[04:59.070 --> 05:03.270]  I'm trying to, you know, completely multitask here.
[05:04.150 --> 05:05.090]  Let's see.
[05:08.040 --> 05:10.220]  If I do...
[05:20.140 --> 05:27.140]  And then this is the interesting thing is...
[05:30.430 --> 05:31.070]  Oh, well.
[05:32.030 --> 05:34.090]  Well, we can kind of fake that, I guess.
[05:35.250 --> 05:35.650]  So...
[05:37.050 --> 05:37.450]  Here.
[05:48.410 --> 05:49.630]  Yeah, we got that.
[05:50.570 --> 05:50.970]  So...
[05:50.970 --> 05:54.790]  Well, and hopefully I'll be able to show you these pictures and we'll kind of catch up.
[05:55.330 --> 05:55.730]  But...
[05:56.390 --> 05:59.310]  So this is my friend, like, Kirsten Malone.
[05:59.310 --> 06:01.330]  She was a super cool chick.
[06:01.570 --> 06:03.610]  She had, like, you know, a hundred people...
[06:03.610 --> 06:06.590]  A hundred twenty-something friends on Friendster, you know.
[06:06.670 --> 06:10.750]  Because this is back in, like, in 2002.
[06:11.930 --> 06:14.230]  So everybody wasn't on MySpace yet.
[06:14.450 --> 06:16.450]  And also, we're old.
[06:16.770 --> 06:21.070]  So we're not, you know, we're not the 14-year-old to 23 set.
[06:22.810 --> 06:30.310]  And she was, like, you know, super cool bossing chick and was riding her bike without a helmet and got hit by a car and died.
[06:31.010 --> 06:35.910]  And, you know, and then kind of, like, the weird thing is that her Friendster page is, like, you know, still sticking around.
[06:36.850 --> 06:37.570]  And now...
[06:37.570 --> 06:39.970]  So now it says that she's 31, you know.
[06:40.130 --> 06:42.090]  But that was, you know, because two years have passed.
[06:42.930 --> 07:00.750]  But one of the big differences between Friendster and MySpace, other than the fact that there are about 94 million people on MySpace now, or, you know, some vague number approximating that, or, like, in 2005, it was at 17 million.
[07:01.050 --> 07:04.130]  So, I mean, the growth rate there is a little extreme.
[07:05.470 --> 07:14.350]  Is that also profiles on MySpace, like, it's the default settings that people can just continue adding comments and they're automatically posted.
[07:14.630 --> 07:22.650]  So, after you die, your page becomes, like, this, you know, happy tribute slash people getting to write mean things about you when you're dead.
[07:24.250 --> 07:38.510]  And it's really interesting because, like, you know, the whole space of how we deal with death and all these things has always been, you know, extremely well, you know, modulated by tradition and culture and convention.
[07:38.510 --> 07:53.010]  And in other words, you go to funerals and there's all the deliberate ceremony and, you know, and obituaries are written by these, you know, old crusty guys in the newspapers and they have a very specific form about what, you know, what is it that goes into an obituary.
[07:53.170 --> 08:08.010]  Like, if you die in an interesting way, you get the story about, like, you know, you get hit, you were hit by a car that fell off of a truck, or you were eaten by an alligator, or you were, you know, hit by a car while you're riding your bike, or you,
[08:08.010 --> 08:25.230]  you know, were some guy who was 19 years old and lived in New Bedford, and you, after you, like, assaulted and killed some people in a gay bar, you got killed in a shootout in Kansas, like, you know, with the cops.
[08:25.830 --> 08:29.250]  But the whole point is that, you know, that's kind of where the story would end.
[08:29.250 --> 08:37.570]  And then there might be, you know, a little obituary that would, you know, note that, you know, they were survived by their mother or whatever, and their cat.
[08:38.670 --> 08:45.950]  But the difference is, is now you get to go on their pages and you see that these people, you know, were, well, like, the guy who...
[08:47.610 --> 08:56.150]  Jacob Robida was the one who did the gay murder stuff in New Bedford about...
[08:56.150 --> 08:58.410]  It was pretty much exactly a year ago.
[08:59.630 --> 09:06.770]  And he had a, you know, a really appropriate MySpace page for someone who would do that.
[09:06.890 --> 09:08.990]  And he was a big, insane clown posse fan.
[09:10.630 --> 09:14.050]  And unfortunately, MySpace took it down, but, like, some people have archived it.
[09:14.150 --> 09:16.210]  And then there have been...
[09:16.210 --> 09:21.950]  But actually, if we take a step back from the stories, and we think about just kind of the statistics.
[09:21.950 --> 09:26.870]  So there's, like, about, you know, approximately 100 million people in MySpace.
[09:27.950 --> 09:34.110]  And, you know, they're mostly in the kind of 15 to, you know, 40, or, you know, even less.
[09:34.210 --> 09:37.230]  But let's say, you know, the 15, 24, 25 to 44 age group.
[09:38.690 --> 09:39.730]  We're talking...
[09:39.730 --> 09:49.030]  So for every 100,000 people that are, you know, between the age of 15, 24, about 90 of them die per year.
[09:49.610 --> 09:54.770]  And so that's, like, 29 cars, 18, you know, homicides, 12 suicides.
[09:55.410 --> 10:01.250]  And then for, like, the 25 to 44, you get more, you get more AIDS and cancer and heart attacks.
[10:01.770 --> 10:08.650]  The suicide rate actually is higher when you're older, above, over 25, which is kind of interesting.
[10:08.650 --> 10:10.130]  But the homicide rate is lower.
[10:11.210 --> 10:13.770]  Maybe because you're dying of cancer instead or something.
[10:16.010 --> 10:16.810]  But the...
[10:16.810 --> 10:17.590]  And what that...
[10:17.590 --> 10:28.090]  So that kind of, like, what that translates into the MySpace users is that means that there's about 100,000 people with MySpace pages that are, you know, and I'm sure not all of those 94 million are actually active.
[10:28.290 --> 10:32.390]  But, you know, that means about 100,000 people with MySpace pages are dying.
[10:32.670 --> 10:34.470]  Like, are dying this year.
[10:34.590 --> 10:40.610]  So 100, you know, 100,000 of the pages that are on the site right now are for dead people.
[10:40.610 --> 10:47.690]  And so that's, like, about 8,000 per month or 270 per day or about, you know, 10 people during this lecture.
[10:48.250 --> 10:52.390]  10 or 11 people, you know, approximately, will have died.
[10:54.210 --> 10:55.170]  Ah, yes.
[10:55.390 --> 10:56.270]  Well, we're getting something.
[11:00.720 --> 11:01.900]  And I don't know.
[11:01.980 --> 11:16.660]  I just kind of find that somewhat fascinating that, you know, there's this infinite well of dead people that's just kind of popping up with all the really bad backgrounds and their, like, their, you know, their musical tastes and stuff.
[11:18.500 --> 11:26.660]  And, let's see, it'd be, well, hopefully when we get this up, if we do, I can show you some of the more interesting pages.
[11:27.580 --> 11:31.960]  And there's actually, right now, there's one guy who's compiling these.
[11:31.960 --> 11:37.720]  He started My Death Space about a year ago and has a really sweet logo.
[11:38.800 --> 11:41.900]  And he has about, like, you know, 400 posted now.
[11:42.460 --> 11:47.040]  I mean, you know, and so we're talking, like, this minuscule proportion of them.
[11:47.040 --> 11:51.600]  And he has this huge backlog, like, of people submitting the pages.
[11:53.520 --> 12:02.020]  And, like, you know, he hooks them up to, like, in an official obituary and links to the profile and kind of does it without comment.
[12:02.220 --> 12:03.100]  And then there's, like, a forum.
[12:03.280 --> 12:06.900]  And so some people are like, ha-ha, this is, you know, this guy was such a f*cking retard.
[12:07.220 --> 12:16.480]  I mean, you know, and, like, when you kill yourself by, like, climbing into a helium balloon, like, you know, you shouldn't do things like that.
[12:17.440 --> 12:24.060]  Like, but at least the people who did that, it was this girl and a guy down in Florida.
[12:24.220 --> 12:24.960]  So they did it together.
[12:25.980 --> 12:31.380]  So, I mean, you know, I think, you know, if you're going to kill yourself in a dumb way, you should do it with someone else.
[12:31.700 --> 12:38.000]  Because, you know, then they'll be like, you know, at least there's someone else that was as dumb as you.
[12:39.360 --> 12:40.160]  Right, exactly.
[12:40.160 --> 12:58.480]  I mean, like, you know, but, you know, it's what's kind of fun things is that it's, you could think of this as making people talk more frankly about suicide and about the dangers of, like, the choking game, which is, you know, where I guess you hang yourself until you start choking and then if you,
[12:58.700 --> 13:00.420]  you know, hopefully you don't die.
[13:01.360 --> 13:02.420]  But sometimes you do.
[13:03.200 --> 13:06.880]  And then you get, then people get to look at your MySpace profile.
[13:06.880 --> 13:18.960]  So, and the, well, and then I can kind of, well, what I'll do is I'll kind of fast-forward to the next topic.
[13:19.300 --> 13:22.360]  And, I mean, you, yeah, and if this scene starts working.
[13:24.940 --> 13:26.760]  Oh, that's looking like your screen.
[13:27.760 --> 13:28.400]  That's sweet.
[13:28.600 --> 13:31.920]  And we can take a look at some of these profile pages.
[13:32.400 --> 13:34.800]  Oh, and there's one that is really spooky.
[13:34.800 --> 13:41.880]  The girl got eaten by an alligator, like, the day before, or actually, like, the day that she died.
[13:45.540 --> 13:47.600]  Okay, I mean, I don't know if she was eaten by the alligator.
[13:47.600 --> 13:48.840]  She was attacked and killed.
[13:49.420 --> 13:51.200]  But, you know, they used their mouths.
[13:51.200 --> 14:02.880]  So, the, the, that day before, the, she wrote a little entry in her blog, how she had woken up.
[14:04.200 --> 14:06.600]  You know, and she'd been, like, kind of sleeping with her boyfriend.
[14:08.400 --> 14:11.160]  And she, well, actually, I can pull it up.
[14:11.380 --> 14:13.480]  I can, I don't have to do it by memory.
[14:13.480 --> 14:15.160]  I keep on forgetting that I'm online.
[14:17.360 --> 14:19.080]  So, let me just...
[14:19.080 --> 14:20.080]  Your files are here.
[14:20.180 --> 14:20.640]  Oh, sweet.
[14:20.900 --> 14:21.360]  Well, here we'll...
[14:21.360 --> 14:21.900]  Oh, wow.
[14:22.000 --> 14:22.820]  Look at it this way.
[14:22.980 --> 14:24.980]  I know you can go and read backwards.
[14:25.900 --> 14:26.640]  Which one?
[14:26.800 --> 14:27.160]  I don't know.
[14:27.240 --> 14:28.740]  The PowerPoint one will work.
[14:33.500 --> 14:34.180]  There we go.
[14:35.460 --> 14:35.600]  Ooh.
[14:36.460 --> 14:37.260]  Yay, Microsoft.
[14:38.460 --> 14:42.620]  You know, I, you know, I kind of, well, there's not really any excuse.
[14:42.860 --> 14:45.380]  But, it was, it's not my computer.
[14:48.420 --> 14:49.180]  So, let's see.
[14:49.440 --> 14:50.280]  Oh, oh, that's right.
[14:50.380 --> 14:51.380]  That's what I wanted to look at.
[14:51.500 --> 14:52.740]  No, the PowerPoint didn't work.
[14:52.840 --> 14:54.720]  Ah, man, the PowerPoint didn't work.
[14:54.840 --> 14:55.940]  Because it's a PowerPoint.
[14:56.020 --> 14:58.600]  Oh, because it's a Mac PowerPoint file.
[14:58.800 --> 14:59.000]  Yeah.
[15:00.080 --> 15:00.480]  Okay.
[15:00.820 --> 15:06.160]  So, well, let's just, let's just go to the web and we can look at some MySpace zombie pages.
[15:06.160 --> 15:08.990]  Why don't you print the PDF?
[15:11.670 --> 15:12.950]  I could do that.
[15:15.950 --> 15:17.130]  And, who is this?
[15:17.750 --> 15:18.030]  Whoa.
[15:18.370 --> 15:19.130]  Why is this?
[15:22.390 --> 15:22.970]  That's annoying.
[15:26.980 --> 15:31.200]  Well, it's probably a different, you know, like you might have an older version of the application.
[15:31.660 --> 15:36.420]  So, in which case, I mean, I could, if I had saved it as, you know, type of thing.
[15:39.600 --> 15:49.130]  But, the, ah, this is just crap.
[15:55.620 --> 16:02.500]  If you actually just want to pull up a web page, we can, a website, we can just, you know, a browser, we can just do some stuff.
[16:05.160 --> 16:06.460]  I have, is this?
[16:09.190 --> 16:10.510]  That is bizarre.
[16:12.210 --> 16:12.870]  Okay.
[16:12.970 --> 16:13.070]  Yeah.
[16:13.070 --> 16:14.210]  The connection's having trolls here.
[16:17.740 --> 16:18.500]  Yeah.
[16:18.580 --> 16:22.320]  The network's kind of hammered, I think.
[16:23.580 --> 16:36.340]  So, the other topic that I've been looking at is, ah, the kind of zombie networks, the, whatever, zombie armies, botnets.
[16:37.900 --> 16:48.280]  And, that's, you know, and really all it is, is it's a kind of illegal and unintentional distributed computing.
[16:48.460 --> 16:52.200]  Or, it's completely intentional on the part of the people who are taking over the computers.
[16:52.200 --> 17:05.720]  But, the, you know, the people whose computers they are, generally don't know that, like, their, their cycles are being used for either, you know, illegal gain and profit.
[17:05.720 --> 17:18.760]  And, it's kind of, if you look at kind of the, by the comparison, ah, like, the biggest legitimate distributed computing, ah, project is SETI at home.
[17:20.460 --> 17:25.520]  And, ah, like, it's got about 5.2 million participants.
[17:26.440 --> 17:37.580]  And, so that's what works as, you know, they perform, it has performed on September 2000, 26, 2001, it performed a total of 1,021 floating point operations.
[17:37.580 --> 17:39.620]  It's acknowledged by the Guinness World Records.
[17:39.620 --> 17:41.420]  It's the largest computation in history.
[17:41.760 --> 17:47.680]  With over 900,000, so it has 5.2 million participants, but 900,000 computers in the system.
[17:48.080 --> 17:51.420]  And, that's the ability to compute over 250 teraflops.
[17:51.620 --> 17:53.580]  That's, like, as of April 2006.
[17:54.120 --> 17:58.460]  Whereas, ah, Blue Gene, the, like, the supercomputer, that's 280.
[17:59.480 --> 18:02.540]  So, that's, you know, so, like, that's pretty, pretty badass.
[18:03.000 --> 18:14.600]  Of course, ah, you know, the funny thing is, is, is that the, like, the, the, the botnets are on the same scale as, as these projects.
[18:14.860 --> 18:18.360]  Like, and there's a lot more, well, I don't know if there's a lot more.
[18:18.740 --> 18:22.180]  But what's, you know, kind of like, let's assume that there, there probably are.
[18:22.180 --> 18:43.660]  There was one, ah, relatively recent, ah, case where, in, ah, the Netherlands, where this, ah, guy who's, like, you know, these three people, ah, 19, 22, and 27, ah, were arrested for a network that, you know, the police first said was, like, 100,000,
[18:44.100 --> 18:46.840]  and then they said it was, like, 1.5 million.
[18:46.840 --> 18:51.120]  But, you know, it's some kind of completely fuzzy, unknown, very large number.
[18:51.260 --> 18:55.080]  Because, I mean, the whole thing is, is that the computers just keep on getting infected and infected.
[18:55.780 --> 19:07.200]  Um, and the, it was the, the, it was the, the Toxbot Trojan, ah, which they installed, and then they installed Adware and Spyware.
[19:07.720 --> 19:12.400]  And they, um, did a denial of service attack on this U.S.
[19:12.560 --> 19:15.200]  company, um, to, an extortion attempt.
[19:15.200 --> 19:20.140]  Because they were, like, we're going to, we're going to take your website down if you don't, you know, don't pay us up.
[19:20.300 --> 19:21.260]  And then they didn't pay us up.
[19:21.360 --> 19:23.020]  And then they, like, you know, took down the website.
[19:23.560 --> 19:25.320]  Um, but then they got arrested.
[19:25.600 --> 19:27.820]  And so, so you shouldn't do it.
[19:28.220 --> 19:28.580]  Don't.
[19:29.340 --> 19:32.780]  And they also, like, phished PayPal accounts and eBay.
[19:33.260 --> 19:38.500]  And, like, you know, I'm not sure, I wasn't able to find out, like, what cool stuff they bought.
[19:38.500 --> 19:54.600]  Um, but, you know, it's, it's one of those things that about half the time, these are, like, there's a, that, I mean, you know, it's the problem with, like, you know, most criminals only, you know, they don't think really, it's, like, you don't think big enough.
[19:54.640 --> 20:05.760]  Like, if you can do this, if you know how to do this, like, you know, it's only a small We all flipped to figure out how to make millions of dollars legally.
[20:07.360 --> 20:10.940]  And that's kind of the lesson of governments.
[20:11.680 --> 20:17.440]  On the other hand, working for the NSA is a lot less cool.
[20:18.300 --> 20:28.520]  So, I mean, like, what Talkspot did is that it's, you know, what all these things do is that they just use kind of known Windows exploits.
[20:30.280 --> 20:37.800]  Like, this one uses kind of a SQL server privilege escalation, a DLL buffer overflow.
[20:37.800 --> 21:11.420]  So, you know, just, they just use known patched Windows vulnerabilities, go in, like, install themselves and open a backdoor and basically just start contacting IRC, various IRC channels on, like, on different networks that, on different, you know, servers that have generally kind of amusing names,
[21:12.440 --> 21:25.920]  like, what is it, like, you know, on martiansong.com and mysecurename.com and, you know, things like goingformars.com, you know, just like really hip websites.
[21:26.980 --> 21:41.190]  And they, and, you know, and then they, then you just launch various attacks and they're pretty much, I mean, there's always some profit motive.
[21:41.330 --> 22:04.670]  Some of them are done with a lot of, with a lot of stuff, you know, in, like, kind of, you know, there's a growth in the, how do you say, like, kind of organized crime doing things in mafias and it's a lot of it, pretty much, you know, it's definitely a majority is overseas or,
[22:04.690 --> 22:07.350]  you know, is found outside of the United States.
[22:09.990 --> 22:26.950]  And, like, you know, another variation was, is, like, another group was MOOP, like M-W-0-P, which is, like, there was a guy in England, you know, was a 63-year-old in England, a 28-year-old in Scotland, a 19-year-old in Finland.
[22:28.430 --> 22:34.090]  And they wrote the Riknos Trojan, which was actually based on the Sony Rootkit.
[22:34.550 --> 22:41.830]  So, like, you know, like, and they, you know, and got, like, a 50,000 computer botnet.
[22:42.990 --> 23:02.530]  And so that's, you can, you know, Sony's, I think you have to give them props for basically creating, I mean, because there's actually relatively little investment in creating new malware, the new software.
[23:02.690 --> 23:08.230]  Most of the time, it's just people taking the code and tweaking a thing or two.
[23:08.230 --> 23:17.990]  And so Sony did a really good job of, you know, paying companies to do the real innovation to find new attacks.
[23:18.150 --> 23:25.770]  And, of course, you know, the reality is, is that company, they, you know, stole a bunch of stuff their own way, too.
[23:25.930 --> 23:37.870]  But, you know, I really do think you should give Sony credit for advancing the botnet field and getting away with it, which is pretty cool.
[23:37.870 --> 23:45.110]  Well, no, I guess they had to give away some CDs, which, and I think they were, like, Kelly Clarkson.
[23:45.270 --> 23:47.490]  So, I mean, you know, who wins, really?
[23:50.990 --> 23:55.650]  The, and, you know, and they were just doing it to, like, generate spam click-throughs.
[23:55.650 --> 24:06.890]  I mean, it's this whole thing, this is, it's like, if you've got 100,000 computers at your control, you, or you can do these things that'll, you know, they'll generate a few thousand bucks a month.
[24:06.890 --> 24:09.370]  And, you know, it's, it's pretty cool.
[24:10.350 --> 24:16.830]  Or you can, you know, or you could, like, cure cancer with the, and, with the legitimate stuff.
[24:17.110 --> 24:22.730]  But it's, you know, it's, it's not generally huge money, except for the time.
[24:22.730 --> 24:30.450]  But what they can also do is, is they do a lot of key logging, huge phishing for, like, credit cards and stuff.
[24:30.610 --> 24:38.590]  I mean, so, I mean, so, I'm sure if Steve Rambam hadn't been arrested, he would have been talking about how, like, you know, everybody has all of your credit cards.
[24:39.370 --> 24:47.550]  Or not necessarily the people in this room, if we're, because we're smart, and we, we use all proper security protocols.
[24:48.990 --> 25:07.510]  But, you know, in a general sense, like, there's, you know, if it's being used, you know, if you've, if you've ever interacted with anything with a Windows machine, you know, electronically, you know, you can assume that, you know, there's no real reason that that data is,
[25:08.310 --> 25:09.190]  closed down.
[25:11.490 --> 25:35.590]  The group that I've got, you know, so I want to give some credit here, some of the, a lot of this information has been coming from Shadow Server, which is a volunteer organization that pretty much does all the things to try to kind of track and have the tools to take down these botnets.
[25:36.410 --> 25:49.810]  They run, they set up and run honey pots, where they, you know, create just aggressively open computers that are just saying, please infect me.
[25:50.010 --> 25:52.550]  And then they use that to track people.
[25:53.490 --> 26:03.350]  They also regularly, they also investigate the software themselves, so they, you know, when they get the new, when they get infected, they go through and look that.
[26:04.130 --> 26:07.650]  You know, in other words, separate from what the antivirus companies are doing.
[26:08.610 --> 26:15.270]  They also track the, these botnets, which is one of the kind of the most interesting things.
[26:15.430 --> 26:22.970]  And so, and they create a list, a running list of the various kind of command and control centers.
[26:22.970 --> 26:33.430]  So, all of these botnets you have, there's some IP address that all these computers are, like, being controlled by.
[26:34.130 --> 26:52.410]  And those, and so it's the, like, so one of the kind of the, you know, things that you can do as a, as a civilian, if you are, don't want, you know, if you want to protect and kind of fight the things.
[26:52.410 --> 27:02.450]  It's in the same way as that they have, you know, actually, these are not, these are often a strong overlap with the, with spammer networks.
[27:03.250 --> 27:09.090]  In other words, these, you know, you have your kind of blackout lists of open relay servers.
[27:09.770 --> 27:17.270]  There are also these black, so Shadow Server also creates a blackout list of botnet control centers.
[27:18.030 --> 27:30.070]  And, you know, so, I mean, this is kind of, it's, you're not going to win the game by blocking out these sites, but it's, it's something that, you know, it gives you something of an edge.
[27:30.070 --> 27:39.990]  And then they also work with the private companies and with law enforcement to try to track them down.
[27:40.090 --> 27:40.330]  Oh, yeah.
[27:40.430 --> 27:50.570]  And that's one of the, and with that, kind of their other main group is tracking the information that gets captured.
[27:50.570 --> 28:01.530]  So, like, whether or not some credit card number has been compromised, like what the, what these lists of credit cards and passwords and accounts are that being compromised.
[28:01.530 --> 28:11.350]  So, they're definitely a very kind of interesting gray hat group or white hat that has lots of, you know, bad information.
[28:11.550 --> 28:12.970]  So, they're white hats.
[28:13.990 --> 28:15.190]  They're not bad people.
[28:16.250 --> 28:38.370]  And actually, they do, they've worked, the people that, the, that have worked the best with them, and they were saying it's like the secret service actually care a lot because the secret service handles what, like, federal monetary transfer stuff, banking fraud.
[28:39.290 --> 28:55.690]  And the, and so they've kind of found that if we look at the botnet statistics, about half of them are just denial of service related, kind of like, so the dumbest thing that you just have a botnet do is you just have a, all hammer some sites simultaneously.
[28:56.630 --> 29:05.770]  About 30% of them do, do like adware and spam, like, so they will install adware, they'll send out spam.
[29:06.450 --> 29:15.870]  And then about 20% are just doing, like, spreading, just involved in, like, growing themselves, doing key logging.
[29:16.470 --> 29:21.090]  And, you know, and they're not necessarily, none of those classifications aren't necessarily exclusive.
[29:21.930 --> 29:37.330]  Some of the things that they found are the, how botnets are evolving, you know, so to speak, is that there's, you know, and some of this, the guy I was talking to was saying that they're not, in a certain sense, not fundamentally interesting.
[29:37.330 --> 29:54.030]  I mean, it's, like, it's kind of the same piece of software being run by people who want, you know, they're not doing it to create art or, you know, they're just infecting computers and then, like, typing the commands in their little IRC channel to have them,
[29:54.170 --> 29:55.250]  you know, go and do something.
[29:55.890 --> 29:58.350]  And so it's, you know, it's kind of code monkey stuff.
[29:58.350 --> 30:13.430]  But the, so the innovations are basically in avoiding getting caught and doing things like running the command and control centers, like, from your PDA, or, you know, like, you know, just hanging out at a coffee shop and doing things like that.
[30:14.110 --> 30:17.570]  And there's also more use of encryption.
[30:18.310 --> 30:22.170]  They're starting to move away from just using IRC.
[30:22.810 --> 30:26.250]  They're multi-server CNCs.
[30:26.670 --> 30:28.110]  That's the command and control.
[30:28.530 --> 30:34.010]  And so that's one of the, those are the types of things that they're, they're tracking and, you know, and seeing.
[30:35.130 --> 30:45.630]  And then, so, what can you do as to kind of avoid getting, you know, becoming a zombie?
[30:46.190 --> 30:49.730]  So, which is don't let people eat your brains.
[30:50.870 --> 30:53.250]  It's the number, well, I guess they don't have to eat your brains.
[30:53.730 --> 30:55.490]  They just have to bite you, right?
[30:55.850 --> 30:57.890]  Is that kind of the standard zombie thing?
[30:59.890 --> 31:01.010]  Right, right, yeah.
[31:01.190 --> 31:02.810]  Well, so don't do that, yeah.
[31:03.050 --> 31:09.450]  And just don't do any of the things that, like, what is it, like Worcestershire sauces helps, I think.
[31:10.270 --> 31:15.290]  So, but for your computers, it's the, I mean, in some sense, a lot of it's just the basic thing.
[31:15.290 --> 31:22.090]  Just keep up with the patches, you know, have your antivirus software, don't open strange email, et cetera.
[31:22.410 --> 31:27.190]  You know, the kind of the basic things that, like, if everybody did it, we'd be a lot better.
[31:29.030 --> 31:37.110]  Now, secondly, using an Internet detection system like Snort, you know, is a very good idea.
[31:37.110 --> 31:50.610]  And those would also, like, those, that software will often include the kind of, like, the botnet rule sets, like the list of botnets that's compiled by groups like Shadow Server.
[31:51.350 --> 31:59.410]  And they'll also have kind of, like, the botnet signatures of the, you know, of the network things.
[31:59.410 --> 32:14.970]  And so, like, when you get up to your system and stuff or even, I mean, your personal computer, like, on a personal network or on a corporate one, you want to have the proper firewall configuration and egress filtering.
[32:15.590 --> 32:32.650]  I mean, if you, you know, like, if you want to lock down your network, is that you just do it so, like, you say, even if I'm getting, even if I get infected, my computer, I'm not going to let my computer contact the commands center.
[32:33.810 --> 32:47.710]  So, you say, like, you know, you just don't get to use, you know, in other words, if you block IRC connections, like, your computer can't be controlled through IRC connections even if it has the software and even if it's been Trojaned.
[32:48.670 --> 32:56.030]  And so, if you control the outgoing connections from a computer, from your computers, you will...
[32:56.030 --> 32:57.710]  that's one of the kind of the primary things.
[32:57.890 --> 33:02.890]  And then it's also the classic things that, you know, change the passwords, use different...
[33:02.890 --> 33:16.290]  don't use the same password for everything, because that's one of the big things that these people would do, is they'll just grab the passwords and, you know, on something that's relatively insecure, and then they'll just start plugging it into eBay and PayPal and whatever,
[33:16.610 --> 33:20.190]  and, you know, and then, like, life is gravy.
[33:20.550 --> 33:26.070]  I don't know if that's the right cliché, but I do like gravy.
[33:27.790 --> 33:31.530]  And you should do things like do deep scanning.
[33:31.530 --> 33:38.950]  I mean, in other words, like, do more... I mean, do a kind of a full... like, you know, do...
[33:38.950 --> 33:46.130]  try to do the full review of your logs and really pay attention to the kind of unusual traffic.
[33:46.630 --> 33:49.450]  So, kind of know what your expected network traffic is.
[33:49.870 --> 33:57.150]  And when you see something that is strange, it's, you know, probably something that you don't like.
[33:57.150 --> 34:04.990]  Of course, there's also that whole thing, if you avoid Windows, you're going to be a lot better off.
[34:06.330 --> 34:25.730]  But that's not to say that, like, you can't have botnets that are being run on, like, Linux and Mac machines, because even if the operating system doesn't have, basically, any exploitable vulnerabilities or vulnerabilities that have been exploited.
[34:26.250 --> 34:35.730]  If you're running, say, you know, your PHP bulletin board system, like, then if there's a...
[34:35.730 --> 34:38.190]  And this is... I'm not speaking entirely hypothetically.
[34:38.770 --> 34:43.410]  There was this PHP vulnerability that was exploited.
[34:43.410 --> 34:53.770]  And so there was this network that was using, like, Linux and OS 10 computers and running on them.
[34:53.990 --> 34:57.730]  And so that's... it's like...
[34:58.490 --> 35:04.010]  In other words, you can basically be smug about it, like, if you're, you know, if you don't use Windows.
[35:05.490 --> 35:11.430]  But you, you know, at some... but that doesn't mean that you won't actually ever get infected.
[35:13.130 --> 35:15.650]  And so, kind of, ShadowServer's...
[35:15.650 --> 35:19.790]  Here's a little kind of description, kind of self-description from them.
[35:19.950 --> 35:21.230]  So it's ShadowServer.org.
[35:22.990 --> 35:26.110]  They're kind of monitoring channel on IRC.
[35:26.410 --> 35:27.730]  They're on Freenode.
[35:27.970 --> 35:29.250]  And it's...
[35:29.250 --> 35:31.310]  ShadowServer.org is the channel.
[35:33.450 --> 35:44.670]  And they couple botnet and malware research with gathering of intelligence, sharing it via the open source community, and building reports and data-driven block lists.
[35:44.850 --> 35:49.310]  We do work directly with law enforcement, and that gives us another unique angle.
[35:49.530 --> 35:51.550]  Our team members are from all over the world.
[35:51.750 --> 35:52.810]  Most are US-based.
[35:52.990 --> 35:56.530]  But they have a good presence in Europe and Australia.
[35:56.530 --> 35:57.370]  So it's...
[35:57.370 --> 35:58.710]  You know, it's...
[35:58.710 --> 35:59.910]  Kind of...
[35:59.910 --> 36:00.510]  The...
[36:00.510 --> 36:01.710]  The Internet world.
[36:02.690 --> 36:03.490]  It's...
[36:03.490 --> 36:04.370]  This is where...
[36:04.370 --> 36:05.850]  I think...
[36:05.850 --> 36:06.430]  My...
[36:06.430 --> 36:06.990]  My...
[36:07.530 --> 36:08.110]  Friendly...
[36:08.110 --> 36:09.470]  You know...
[36:09.470 --> 36:10.810]  Computer cohort...
[36:10.810 --> 36:11.430]  Escaped.
[36:12.050 --> 36:12.850]  So...
[36:13.810 --> 36:14.610]  If...
[36:14.610 --> 36:17.130]  At ShadowServer, they have...
[36:17.130 --> 36:18.310]  It's a...
[36:18.310 --> 36:22.890]  It's a fun site to just even kind of poke around on, because they have the list of the...
[36:22.890 --> 36:23.850]  Botnets they're tracking.
[36:25.170 --> 36:25.690]  Um...
[36:26.370 --> 36:26.890]  And...
[36:26.890 --> 36:27.650]  I...
[36:27.650 --> 36:31.070]  They have a list of tickets, and each one has like the...
[36:31.070 --> 36:31.590]  Uh...
[36:31.590 --> 36:32.390]  Like, you know, the...
[36:33.190 --> 36:33.710]  It...
[36:33.710 --> 36:34.930]  What the...
[36:36.810 --> 36:39.770]  What the specific malware was that...
[36:39.770 --> 36:40.590]  Um...
[36:40.590 --> 36:42.170]  That originates the botnet.
[36:42.370 --> 36:44.150]  And so they picked it up either...
[36:44.150 --> 36:44.270]  They...
[36:44.270 --> 36:45.450]  And so what they do is they collect...
[36:45.450 --> 36:52.170]  When they first find a botnet, it's usually through another botnet, or one of their honeypots, Or if it...
[36:52.170 --> 36:53.150]  Or if it...
[36:53.150 --> 36:53.990]  Like, you know...
[36:53.990 --> 36:54.530]  Um...
[36:54.530 --> 36:55.430]  Just kind of...
[36:55.430 --> 36:56.470]  Tries to infect them.
[36:57.510 --> 36:57.930]  Um...
[36:57.930 --> 36:58.490]  You know, or they...
[36:58.490 --> 36:59.110]  You know, they get...
[36:59.110 --> 37:00.330]  You know, they get an email with it.
[37:00.510 --> 37:02.010]  And so what they do is they...
[37:02.010 --> 37:03.550]  MD5 hash the malware.
[37:04.250 --> 37:04.470]  Um...
[37:04.470 --> 37:06.150]  Classify it according to its function.
[37:06.350 --> 37:07.210]  Put that up on the ticket.
[37:07.990 --> 37:08.330]  Uh...
[37:08.330 --> 37:10.090]  So they put the hash of the software.
[37:11.330 --> 37:11.750]  Um...
[37:11.750 --> 37:13.770]  Then they take the...
[37:13.770 --> 37:15.070]  And this is kind of the fun thing.
[37:15.190 --> 37:15.670]  This is...
[37:15.670 --> 37:16.950]  They put up the...
[37:16.950 --> 37:20.170]  The CNC dialogue that takes place on the...
[37:20.170 --> 37:21.950]  Kind of the IRC channel that's using it.
[37:22.810 --> 37:23.250]  Um...
[37:23.250 --> 37:23.830]  And...
[37:23.830 --> 37:24.970]  So like...
[37:24.970 --> 37:27.650]  You know, for example, like one ticket is like an IRC botnet.
[37:27.890 --> 37:31.330]  Looks like an ordinary IRC chat session except that it's like...
[37:31.330 --> 37:33.230]  They're not, you know, kind of talking in people.
[37:33.410 --> 37:33.610]  It's...
[37:33.610 --> 37:34.990]  It's more like looking at...
[37:34.990 --> 37:36.950]  You know, a file sharing...
[37:36.950 --> 37:37.250]  Uh...
[37:37.930 --> 37:38.370]  IRC...
[37:39.010 --> 37:39.450]  Um...
[37:39.450 --> 37:39.690]  Uh...
[37:39.690 --> 37:40.070]  Connection.
[37:41.150 --> 37:41.590]  And...
[37:41.590 --> 37:45.530]  Like they have something like the topic for the 666 channel.
[37:45.730 --> 37:46.530]  You know, it's like...
[37:46.530 --> 37:48.790]  You know, because that's kind of the great thing about these is that...
[37:48.790 --> 37:49.790]  Since they're...
[37:50.330 --> 37:50.910]  You know, they're...
[37:50.910 --> 37:51.990]  It's all edgy.
[37:53.330 --> 37:53.930]  Um...
[37:53.930 --> 37:54.490]  And hackery.
[37:54.990 --> 37:56.870]  It's like hacks or...
[37:56.870 --> 37:57.250]  Um...
[37:57.250 --> 37:59.150]  So it's like 666 is my computer...
[37:59.150 --> 37:59.750]  Is my channel.
[37:59.970 --> 38:01.850]  And so like the command would be like...
[38:01.850 --> 38:04.430]  Scan 61.1.x.x.
[38:04.770 --> 38:05.170]  Um...
[38:05.170 --> 38:05.790]  And...
[38:06.490 --> 38:07.090]  Uh...
[38:07.090 --> 38:08.390]  What it does is it...
[38:08.390 --> 38:10.890]  Then that sends that command out to all the...
[38:10.890 --> 38:12.790]  All the computers in the botnet to start scanning...
[38:12.790 --> 38:13.950]  Uh...
[38:13.950 --> 38:16.230]  You know, to start port scanning, uh...
[38:16.230 --> 38:16.790]  Sixty 1.1...
[38:17.730 --> 38:18.020]  Um...
[38:18.310 --> 38:23.330]  And then once enough machines are found, the malware is downloaded to the victim machine.
[38:23.630 --> 38:25.030]  And, uh...
[38:25.030 --> 38:27.750]  You know, execute or queued for execution, uh...
[38:27.750 --> 38:28.790]  upon the next boot...
[38:28.790 --> 38:29.370]  Um...
[38:29.370 --> 38:33.110]  That machine is now part of the botnet, and...
[38:33.110 --> 38:35.830]  The same channel commands will work.
[38:35.950 --> 38:37.470]  And so it's kinda...
[38:37.890 --> 38:47.530]  That is one of the fun things, is that you really do get this, it's nice software, these things.
[38:47.710 --> 38:48.610]  And they work well.
[38:50.750 --> 38:52.230]  And that's kind of what they do.
[38:53.030 --> 38:55.370]  But, let's see if this is pulling up.
[38:55.790 --> 38:56.250]  There we go.
[38:58.930 --> 39:03.590]  So that's, in many ways, a lot of the prepared text I have.
[39:04.650 --> 39:05.630]  There'd be more...
[39:05.630 --> 39:07.810]  I'm really sad that there aren't pretty pictures.
[39:08.310 --> 39:09.690]  Because, you know, it's...
[39:09.690 --> 39:12.370]  Especially of all the MySpace pages.
[39:12.730 --> 39:16.630]  Because, you know, it's sad when the nice people die.
[39:16.850 --> 39:19.950]  And there are some people that you can tell why they did.
[39:22.910 --> 39:28.630]  Well, I mean, you know, like if you... I mean, there is a...
[39:30.030 --> 39:33.490]  Like, you know, if you act like you're a...
[39:33.490 --> 39:41.410]  Kind of a psychotic, racist, crazy dude who really likes guns, you know, and has like...
[39:41.410 --> 39:44.070]  I mean, here's my picture, my MySpace profile, and here's my gun.
[39:44.590 --> 39:46.970]  And I, like, hate, you know...
[39:46.970 --> 39:49.070]  Like, you know, and I hate gays and jews.
[39:49.450 --> 39:50.990]  And like, then, you know, you can...
[39:50.990 --> 39:53.230]  You actually can, you know, you can kind of predict that.
[39:55.370 --> 39:55.890]  So...
[39:56.870 --> 39:57.790]  Well, let's see.
[39:57.910 --> 39:58.110]  We're...
[39:58.110 --> 39:59.130]  Yeah, we're at ten...
[39:59.130 --> 40:01.070]  We're at 15 minutes before the hour.
[40:01.250 --> 40:03.710]  So, if anybody has any questions or comments...
[40:03.710 --> 40:07.470]  I don't know if anybody in the audience has experience with botnets.
[40:08.110 --> 40:15.750]  Or if this is a great time to come up and add your two cents.
[40:16.770 --> 40:17.290]  So...
[40:17.290 --> 40:21.510]  Or you can either come up to the mic or just chat.
[40:22.650 --> 40:23.170]  Hi.
[40:23.870 --> 40:24.550]  Is this on?
[40:24.750 --> 40:24.850]  Yeah.
[40:25.230 --> 40:30.050]  I have not experience necessarily with botnets, but I have a question.
[40:30.190 --> 40:36.770]  Kind of combining the idea of dead people's pages on MySpace and botnets.
[40:37.630 --> 40:42.950]  I'm sure there are botnets that were owned by people who are either in prison or disbanded or have gone underground.
[40:42.950 --> 40:49.730]  So, that would mean presumably that there's a numerous botnets out there that are not controlled by anyone at the moment.
[40:50.270 --> 40:50.310]  Right.
[40:50.630 --> 40:57.770]  And I'm wondering, aside from source routing or something like that, is there a way to take those over?
[40:58.310 --> 40:58.550]  And...
[40:59.810 --> 41:00.850]  Well, it's funny.
[41:00.850 --> 41:06.990]  One, it actually is this kind of like really big problem in the whole, like, how do you deal with botnets?
[41:07.170 --> 41:09.490]  Because it's not...
[41:09.490 --> 41:21.210]  It's relatively easy to shut down the command center, but it's pretty much impossible to disinfect the network.
[41:21.210 --> 41:28.210]  Like, I mean, basically, you know, kind of the best thing that you can do is you can get kind of the general...
[41:28.830 --> 41:34.590]  Like, I mean, if you can get ISPs and such to block, you know, to ignore those traffic calls.
[41:34.790 --> 41:37.030]  But the computers themselves, yeah, they're zombies.
[41:37.230 --> 41:39.490]  They're gonna always do that forever.
[41:40.030 --> 41:52.490]  Taking it over, I think basically the thing is that once the network has been shut down by somebody, I wouldn't want to try to take over that because the whole point is that people have already shut it down.
[41:52.670 --> 41:57.650]  And you're like, well, if the dude who used to be running is in jail, like, now I can totally take it over.
[41:57.930 --> 42:01.990]  Like, I don't know, that doesn't seem like the best idea.
[42:01.990 --> 42:08.350]  Like, but, I mean, I don't actually specifically know, but, I mean, there's not...
[42:08.350 --> 42:10.890]  I mean, basically, there's, you know, anybody like the...
[42:10.890 --> 42:24.210]  Anybody who could have, you know, who knows what kind of like the password for, you know, running the network, you know, being the kind of... being authenticated as the owner of the channel.
[42:24.510 --> 42:30.870]  For example, if it's an IRC botnet, then you're the command.
[42:32.330 --> 42:34.550]  But, yeah, no, I mean, basically, it's that type of thing.
[42:35.270 --> 42:35.630]  Once...
[42:35.630 --> 42:51.770]  Now, on the other hand, like, you could certainly, for example, I have the feeling like if you wanted to, you could go and, you know, on your own, try to find other people's botnets that haven't been, like, you know, caught yet and try to take them over from the people and you could...
[42:51.770 --> 42:55.470]  But, that's, you know, it's relatively easy to start your own botnets, basically.
[42:56.730 --> 42:57.090]  Right.
[43:00.170 --> 43:00.830]  Did I just...
[43:00.830 --> 43:00.890]  Did I just...
[43:00.890 --> 43:01.050]  Okay.
[43:04.010 --> 43:04.330]  And...
[43:04.330 --> 43:04.650]  The...
[43:04.650 --> 43:07.010]  Yeah, no, I mean, at some point, there'll...
[43:07.010 --> 43:14.410]  I mean, that's why if, like, people ever start, like, really implanting stuff in their heads, is, you know, or it's like, well, you know, you're taking over people...
[43:15.650 --> 43:24.770]  Implanted RFIDs, you know, like, you can do some, you know, some great stuff of, like, people have, like, implanted credit cards, and, you know, and you can start doing these things.
[43:26.330 --> 43:26.810]  Um...
[43:26.810 --> 43:27.710]  Oh, yeah.
[43:27.990 --> 43:28.850]  One here...
[43:28.850 --> 43:29.970]  Well, since I'll...
[43:29.970 --> 43:37.130]  If you want, I can do some little, uh, uh, you know, dead tree, uh, little transfers.
[43:37.870 --> 43:38.310]  Um...
[43:38.310 --> 43:41.550]  So, mydeadspace.com is...
[43:41.550 --> 43:43.810]  is fun, and it's kind of easy to remember.
[43:44.830 --> 43:45.270]  Uh...
[43:45.270 --> 43:45.830]  One of...
[43:45.830 --> 43:50.130]  Actually, one of the most interesting, uh, and I really wish I could have pulled it up, because it's kind of great.
[43:50.570 --> 44:10.670]  One of the speakers at, uh, H2K, uh, the 2000 hope, was, uh, Chris McKinstry, who was this guy who, uh, was running the, uh, the MindPixel, uh, MindPixel General Artificial Consciousness Project, um, in which he was, like, getting people to, like, type in little things,
[44:10.890 --> 44:25.190]  little statements that are either true or false, and he was compiling this, like, data, uh, this, uh, this whole list of, uh, what people, you know, kind of, like, the general knowledge of humanity, and it was all gonna be compiled into this kind of, like,
[44:25.230 --> 44:28.810]  you know, artificial intelligence that would have this emergent intelligence.
[44:29.570 --> 44:39.850]  Um, and he had been, like, working down in the radio telescopes down in, uh, South America and helping to, like, discover supernovas and things.
[44:40.450 --> 44:51.550]  Uh, unfortunately, uh, he was kind of like, I don't know how many people have seen A Beautiful Mind, but he was kind of like, uh, what's his name there?
[44:52.810 --> 44:54.270]  Yeah, Russell Crowe.
[44:54.270 --> 44:55.250]  No, no, yeah, John Nash.
[44:55.690 --> 44:58.490]  Um, and he, uh, and, and he was kind of like that.
[44:58.590 --> 45:02.990]  In other words, he was, he was, was somebody who was genuinely very smart, but he was also completely crazy.
[45:03.750 --> 45:20.930]  Um, and so the, uh, the MindPixel project was very much kind of like Nash's little, uh, conspiratorial jottings where the, the information coming in, you know, that was all real, and it's, you know, and he really was compiling it into a database, but there was no,
[45:20.930 --> 45:22.650]  like, artificial intelligence.
[45:23.110 --> 45:35.010]  Like, what it would, it, all it would do is kind of like two-thirds of the time it would guess yes, and one-third of the time it would say, you know, in other words, two-thirds of the time it would say, this is a true statement, and one, you know, a third of the time it would say,
[45:35.090 --> 45:35.650]  this is a false statement.
[45:35.650 --> 45:39.430]  There was no intelligence, you know, no parsing of this.
[45:40.290 --> 45:51.310]  And in 2004, I believe, he wrote an online suicide note.
[45:51.570 --> 45:53.970]  He said, this is what an online suicide note looks like.
[45:54.070 --> 45:59.030]  And he had various quotes about, you know, killing yourself from various speakers.
[45:59.810 --> 46:01.670]  And then, like, the next day, he did.
[46:04.930 --> 46:19.210]  And it's, so, I mean, like, you know, but now, unfortunately, so, and I actually only found out about this because I was, like, kind of looking up some little old AI stuff that I had, you know, bookmarked and came upon this.
[46:19.270 --> 46:24.290]  And I'm like, wait a second, you know, like, so I read the blog, and I'm like, wait a second, this is a little weird.
[46:24.290 --> 46:27.130]  And then, you know, it turned out he'd killed himself.
[46:27.310 --> 46:31.690]  And unfortunately, like, the, that, like, that page has been taken down, but it's been archived.
[46:34.670 --> 46:40.590]  And so there's, so there's, you know, and, you know, and that is one of the things, this is like a lot of these things fade away.
[46:40.590 --> 47:02.630]  And it's quite possible that MySpace is, I mean, I wouldn't, you know, it's a good bet that within the next five, 10 years, or less than that, MySpace will have a whole division of people that, you know, in a whole institutional policy, formalized policy about how to deal with the profiles of people who have died.
[47:03.710 --> 47:17.970]  And, you know, like, and, like, there'll be, it'll be probably a standard thing that you put in your, like, will, or, you know, next of attorney or something, or, like, you know, and since, I mean, it's this big thing, because most people who are 15 don't have wills,
[47:18.010 --> 47:19.350]  but they have MySpace pages.
[47:20.310 --> 47:34.850]  So at some point, like, when you create your, you know, your MySpace profile, you'll probably be asked to fill out, like, a provisional will to, like, transfer your electronic assets to, you know, you know, what your electronic, you know, World of Warcraft,
[47:35.030 --> 47:37.230]  MySpace, et cetera, next of kin is.
[47:39.270 --> 47:50.630]  And, and then, you know, and then, like, this age of zombies will sadly fade away, and we'll just be left with people who are nicely buried.
[47:51.970 --> 47:56.510]  I guess that might be a good place to end the talking list, but we have time for, like, one or two more questions.
[47:57.350 --> 47:59.790]  But otherwise, I will thank you all.
[48:01.350 --> 48:02.490]  Oh, is that?
[48:02.710 --> 48:03.250]  Okay, good.
[48:03.330 --> 48:03.590]  One more.
[48:04.070 --> 48:04.310]  Excellent.
[48:04.490 --> 48:05.130]  I have a question.
[48:05.710 --> 48:05.950]  Yeah.
[48:06.650 --> 48:16.050]  I was just wondering what your take is on distributed computing, and what that might do for cancer, for SETI, or anything like that.
[48:16.230 --> 48:20.930]  What that might do, or any capabilities that those companies might have.
[48:20.930 --> 48:36.410]  Well, I mean, there's definitely, one of the, I mean, there's real stuff as, I mean, the SETI project is, well, it's also, it's a good example of, I mean, you know, like, it's a kind of a, probably quixotic pursuit type of thing.
[48:36.410 --> 48:39.890]  But, you know, they, but, but, like, yeah, you're right.
[48:40.030 --> 48:57.730]  I mean, but on things that is kind of like, on problems that are knowable, knowably dealable with, like, you know, by supercomputers, like protein folding, and, like, searching through genetic materials, I mean, there's absolutely no, I mean, distributed computing.
[48:57.730 --> 49:06.910]  They have, essentially, as long as it's the right kind of task, they have, essentially, the equivalent power of, you know, a, of traditional supercomputer.
[49:08.010 --> 49:29.690]  There are, like, the, kind of the cutting edge research of, like, grid computing, where, and, and one of, kind of the ironies is, is, is that, it's the, the Internet, the ARPANET, like, the, the ARPANET was originally designed to, as a, distributed computing network,
[49:29.970 --> 49:35.050]  like, the idea that people would use the network to communicate with each other, was not what it was about.
[49:35.230 --> 49:45.730]  It was about sharing, you know, it was time sharing, it was about sharing resources on the, having the computers share their resources, so you'd have effectively a more powerful computing grid.
[49:46.030 --> 49:51.970]  And that, you know, vein of academic research and approach has, has never stopped.
[49:52.950 --> 50:11.170]  And what the, now, what that will end up being, you know, 5, 10, 25, 50 years from now, I mean, you can, you know, make your extrapolations and, you know, read William Gibson and, and Eric Drexler and stuff, and you will have emergent consciousnesses,
[50:11.210 --> 50:19.730]  unless you believe that the human mind is magic and can't be paralleled by computers because they're, you know, binary or something.
[50:21.330 --> 50:27.590]  But, in the, yeah, no, I mean, like, I think you, basically, you should have your computer be doing distributed computing stuff.
[50:27.770 --> 50:29.570]  It's a, it's a good thing.
[50:31.310 --> 50:39.670]  And, I mean, on the other hand, like, you're burning, you're, you know, you're, you're using energy, you're using electricity, so you're, like, heating up the earth when you're using it.
[50:39.670 --> 50:44.410]  So all these computers are wearing away, you know, but, yeah, no, it's a good thing.
[50:45.550 --> 50:57.790]  So, and, but, I think the most interesting thing there is just that the, like, the botnet, the, the legitimate distributed computing world in the botnet world are basically the same size.
[50:59.830 --> 51:02.630]  All right, well, thanks a lot, and, uh, come again.
[52:49.080 --> 52:50.210]  This is just like that.
[52:50.660 --> 52:51.290]  It's really easy.
[52:51.480 --> 52:59.540]  On the screen now, you can see this, I quickly installed, uh, GNUPG on the Mac, and, uh, GPG mail, and this is, I, uh, this is mail app on the Mac.
[52:59.730 --> 53:10.230]  It just got an, an extra menu, um, that, uh, an extra menu here, PGP for the configuration, uh, and you can configure everything as well.
[53:10.600 --> 53:14.790]  We really have to stop now, uh, but we'll take these two questions, and then we'll, we'll stop.
[53:14.790 --> 53:17.540]  I just had a question about the browsing encryption.
[53:17.710 --> 53:21.520]  If you use Tor or something, won't your ISP still have records of everything?
[53:22.540 --> 53:24.560]  Or is that encrypted to them, too?
[53:25.080 --> 53:26.020]  Yes, it's encrypted.
[53:26.770 --> 53:27.060]  It's encrypted.
[53:27.290 --> 53:31.020]  You're also doing, you start encryption to the first node, and then you go through the Tor network.
[53:31.270 --> 53:32.480]  Your ISP nodes, your connections.
[53:32.480 --> 53:33.120]  Everything is...