[00:00.000 --> 00:01.100]  ...and lightning talks.
[00:01.320 --> 00:03.260]  You can check out the wiki for this.
[00:05.220 --> 00:07.260]  Let's go ahead and jump in with our first talk.
[00:07.480 --> 00:11.500]  This is Community Fabrication, Four Years Later, Far McKon.
[00:19.280 --> 00:20.020]  Morning, everybody.
[00:20.420 --> 00:25.280]  Yeah, my name is Far McKon, and welcome to the talk.
[00:25.860 --> 00:32.880]  I used this in my slides, just pulled it off the website as a banner, and I was actually kind of impressed when I got here, and they had the security-style badges.
[00:32.880 --> 00:39.080]  And I don't know, I really think the passport and the badges is a lot, you know, it's an awesome upgrade from the original design.
[00:41.020 --> 00:44.120]  So yeah, so it's bright and early on a Friday morning.
[00:44.260 --> 00:44.880]  It's 10 o'clock.
[00:45.120 --> 00:48.780]  The good people of the world are at their jobs doing useful things.
[00:49.140 --> 00:53.160]  The bad people of the world are still asleep because they were out partying last night.
[00:53.360 --> 00:58.220]  And it leaves me to wonder what kind of people are here at a hacker conference at 10 o'clock on Friday.
[01:00.180 --> 01:04.780]  And I'm going to talk about community fabrication and what a horrible, horrible, fantastic idea it is.
[01:06.300 --> 01:07.380]  So who am I?
[01:07.740 --> 01:08.420]  I'm far.
[01:08.620 --> 01:09.220]  I'm from Philly.
[01:09.440 --> 01:11.000]  I currently work in New York.
[01:11.420 --> 01:14.220]  I've been in the hacker space scene for about four years.
[01:14.600 --> 01:21.660]  I hope four years ago was when I really got into the hacker space scene, when I really got into, you know, just tooling around and building stuff.
[01:23.440 --> 01:25.180]  I've co-founded a couple of hacker spaces.
[01:25.360 --> 01:28.000]  I was involved in getting both the Hive and the Hacktory started in Philadelphia.
[01:28.620 --> 01:29.360]  I've traveled around.
[01:29.500 --> 01:38.060]  I've given talks at various schools and universities and nonprofits about how to start a hacker space, what the hacker scene is, why it kind of has to be gray hat.
[01:38.160 --> 01:43.660]  You can't really say, oh, we're going to let these people play with any technology they want and then say, oh, no, only these technologies are allowed.
[01:43.660 --> 01:48.900]  And that you can't go out and say, oh, we want people to invent new and cool stuff, but it has to make money next year.
[01:49.280 --> 01:56.480]  You know, like really trying to get them to understand that research, education, breaking things, tearing things apart, doesn't always have an immediate return.
[01:56.680 --> 01:58.720]  Like sometimes it takes some time to mess around with.
[01:58.940 --> 02:05.680]  And I think that ties in with how 3D printing and, you know, manufacturing and DIY creation goes.
[02:06.860 --> 02:09.560]  I've been involved in a couple other nonprofits, stuff like that.
[02:09.800 --> 02:12.300]  So, you know, that's all what I do for fun.
[02:12.300 --> 02:15.560]  For my day job, I am actually the nerd herder at MakerBot Industries.
[02:16.200 --> 02:19.600]  That means I sit around and I watch really awesome developers around me build cool stuff.
[02:19.780 --> 02:21.740]  And I try to keep everybody out of their way.
[02:21.880 --> 02:24.120]  I try to keep, you know, management from getting in their way.
[02:24.200 --> 02:26.160]  I try to keep other companies from getting in their way.
[02:26.240 --> 02:28.520]  I try to keep annoying details down to a minimum.
[02:28.660 --> 02:30.900]  So they can sit there and build the coolest stuff possible.
[02:31.620 --> 02:33.900]  And this talk also is entirely just me.
[02:34.180 --> 02:36.100]  It's my rants, my crazy ideas.
[02:36.580 --> 02:37.960]  MakerBot is not responsible for this.
[02:38.160 --> 02:42.840]  If I insult you or drive you crazy, come find me after the conference and throw a fruit at me.
[02:43.880 --> 02:46.440]  But, you know, this is all my personal point of view.
[02:46.620 --> 02:48.500]  I'm also saying this upfront that I might have a bias.
[02:48.660 --> 02:49.540]  You know, I work at MakerBot.
[02:49.620 --> 02:50.460]  I really like what they do.
[02:50.620 --> 02:52.260]  I love the 3D printing community in general.
[02:52.920 --> 02:54.140]  But I can be opinionated.
[02:54.300 --> 02:56.480]  So I may say things that are annoying or wrong.
[02:56.740 --> 02:58.660]  And you can come up and tell me, you know, I'm wrong.
[02:58.820 --> 02:59.120]  Correct me.
[03:01.260 --> 03:02.520]  So that's all for that.
[03:02.780 --> 03:04.580]  So I'm going to take you guys on a time warp, right?
[03:04.680 --> 03:10.460]  One of the things that I think is so difficult talking about technology is how much we assume and how quickly we assume it.
[03:11.600 --> 03:16.960]  So I think part of what's interesting about the delta between four years ago and this year is a lot of what happened.
[03:17.120 --> 03:19.520]  So I'd actually like you guys to take a second, clear your head.
[03:19.780 --> 03:20.640]  You're in this room.
[03:20.820 --> 03:21.500]  You may have been here.
[03:21.580 --> 03:23.140]  How many people were in this room four years ago?
[03:23.260 --> 03:23.740]  Raise your hand.
[03:24.480 --> 03:24.800]  Cool.
[03:24.880 --> 03:26.100]  How many people were in this room two years ago?
[03:27.260 --> 03:27.660]  Awesome.
[03:27.840 --> 03:28.040]  Fantastic.
[03:28.500 --> 03:31.240]  So let's go back in time, right?
[03:31.340 --> 03:32.540]  It's not 2012 anymore.
[03:32.700 --> 03:33.620]  It's 2008, right?
[03:33.700 --> 03:34.540]  It's the last hope.
[03:35.100 --> 03:37.720]  Like, this is, you know, let's actually go even more general.
[03:37.840 --> 03:38.660]  It's 2008.
[03:38.920 --> 03:40.320]  Obama isn't even president yet, right?
[03:40.600 --> 03:41.420]  Bush is president.
[03:42.020 --> 03:44.720]  The economic collapse hasn't happened yet.
[03:44.900 --> 03:46.220]  Like, all the banks are fine.
[03:46.340 --> 03:47.600]  Everybody's like, oh, housing market.
[03:47.600 --> 03:49.660]  It's just going to keep going up and up and up forever.
[03:51.520 --> 03:52.800]  Yeah, what else was going on?
[03:53.200 --> 03:55.940]  Oh, Large Hadron Collider was just test fired, right?
[03:55.940 --> 03:58.260]  All my physics nerd friends are like, guys, this thing.
[03:58.400 --> 03:59.420]  They're going to find stuff with it.
[03:59.540 --> 04:00.440]  And they have now.
[04:00.560 --> 04:02.320]  But in the past, it was still really cool.
[04:03.260 --> 04:04.380]  And it was the year of the pirates.
[04:04.500 --> 04:05.380]  You guys remember that stuff?
[04:05.760 --> 04:07.280]  2008, all the pirate hijackings.
[04:07.400 --> 04:07.640]  Anybody?
[04:07.960 --> 04:08.100]  Yes?
[04:08.220 --> 04:08.400]  No?
[04:08.580 --> 04:08.800]  Anything?
[04:09.340 --> 04:11.920]  Like, all over the Middle East, pirate hijackings every year.
[04:12.060 --> 04:14.060]  Everyone was pirates for Halloween and Christmas.
[04:14.080 --> 04:14.660]  It was great.
[04:15.880 --> 04:16.840]  Yeah, so anything else?
[04:16.940 --> 04:17.780]  Anybody in the audience?
[04:17.940 --> 04:19.020]  What else happened in 2008?
[04:19.420 --> 04:19.620]  Anybody?
[04:21.780 --> 04:22.140]  Bueller?
[04:23.700 --> 04:24.320]  Okay, whatever.
[04:24.720 --> 04:27.900]  All right, so let's go to HOPE in 2008, right?
[04:28.020 --> 04:29.860]  HOPE in 2008 was actually a pretty different affair.
[04:30.360 --> 04:31.520]  It was the last HOPE.
[04:31.800 --> 04:32.780]  They were going to cancel this thing.
[04:32.940 --> 04:33.620]  We were done.
[04:33.740 --> 04:34.760]  They were going to tear down this hotel.
[04:35.100 --> 04:38.220]  They were going to, like, you know, all come and cry when they tore it down.
[04:38.360 --> 04:41.420]  And, like, people were like, oh, man, that's the last place we could afford to hold a conference in New York.
[04:43.480 --> 04:44.620]  RFID badges were in.
[04:44.840 --> 04:46.760]  Like, they're out this year.
[04:46.900 --> 04:47.900]  But they were totally in.
[04:48.000 --> 04:49.820]  It was like, oh, little tombstone badges.
[04:49.960 --> 04:50.400]  They're RFID.
[04:50.400 --> 04:52.640]  We can, like, track you and stuff and things.
[04:53.260 --> 04:54.300]  So that was cool.
[04:54.940 --> 04:56.780]  Mac unibodies were, like, the fresh new thing.
[04:56.980 --> 04:57.560]  It was, like, what?
[04:57.620 --> 04:59.280]  OS 10.5 or something.
[05:00.260 --> 05:02.140]  Adam Savage gave the keynote, right?
[05:02.380 --> 05:04.780]  So Adam Savage is, like, oh, there's all this cool stuff.
[05:04.780 --> 05:06.540]  And here's the dodo bird I built and stuff like that.
[05:06.660 --> 05:08.120]  Like, it was a different place.
[05:08.460 --> 05:09.700]  Hackerspaces were just getting started.
[05:09.760 --> 05:13.100]  That was the first year they had, like, the Hackerspace panel where they had people come up.
[05:13.100 --> 05:17.880]  And Nick Farr gave his famous, like, your excuses are invalid talk, which is still true.
[05:18.020 --> 05:19.400]  But it's his talk, not mine.
[05:20.440 --> 05:23.540]  So, you know, that's the world we were in.
[05:23.680 --> 05:26.220]  And it's really hard, I think, sometimes to think back because we...
[05:27.060 --> 05:29.480]  Because technology moves so fast, we're forced to move with it.
[05:29.660 --> 05:32.240]  And sometimes putting yourself back in that old headspace is hard.
[05:33.580 --> 05:40.740]  So 2008, one of the big news items of 2008 that ties into both the general world and the hacker community was the RepRap, you know?
[05:40.740 --> 05:42.400]  The machine that copies itself.
[05:43.660 --> 05:45.680]  And this came out a few months before HOPE.
[05:45.840 --> 05:47.900]  And I was, you know, at the Hackerspace in Philly.
[05:47.980 --> 05:48.500]  And we were talking about it.
[05:48.640 --> 05:49.600]  Like, hey, this is really cool.
[05:49.980 --> 05:54.340]  And we happened to get a fab at home via Cornell and Evan Malone.
[05:54.920 --> 05:57.340]  And, you know, we had one set up at the Hacktory in Philadelphia.
[05:57.560 --> 05:58.460]  And we were playing with it.
[05:58.520 --> 06:00.440]  And somebody was like, oh, you really need to talk about this.
[06:00.520 --> 06:01.720]  You really need to bring this to the conference.
[06:01.760 --> 06:03.580]  You really need to bring out what's going on.
[06:05.060 --> 06:07.880]  And, you know, so that's how I ended up getting roped into this.
[06:08.620 --> 06:10.000]  The title for this article is kind of interesting.
[06:10.000 --> 06:13.600]  It's like, Dr. Adrian Bauer doesn't look like an evil mastermind.
[06:13.820 --> 06:14.400]  They don't.
[06:14.500 --> 06:15.000]  They never do.
[06:16.360 --> 06:18.460]  Pojie, twinkly-eyed, 55-year-old senior.
[06:18.740 --> 06:21.220]  And then I started to think, yeah, that actually does look like an evil mastermind.
[06:22.700 --> 06:26.780]  And, you know, it was demoed at the Sheltham Science Festival in early 2008.
[06:29.420 --> 06:39.260]  So I ended up, because of that, because it was big news, because we happened to have an item donated, I got volunteered to give a talk on community fabrication in 2008.
[06:39.520 --> 06:49.820]  And this talk basically tied together the DIY scene and what was going on with, you know, hackerspaces, fab labs, tool gym, stuff like that.
[06:49.820 --> 06:53.260]  It was tying that together with the home manufacturing that was going on.
[06:53.680 --> 06:56.180]  And, again, you know, RepRap was just announced.
[06:56.560 --> 06:57.860]  Laser cutters were becoming cool.
[06:57.980 --> 06:59.940]  A lot of places were, like, pooling money to buy laser cutters.
[07:00.000 --> 07:05.860]  That was, like, the founding object for a bunch of hackerspaces was, we're going to pool money for this, you know, fabrication equipment.
[07:07.220 --> 07:10.240]  And I gave a talk that basically was talking about, like, kind of where things were.
[07:10.540 --> 07:13.020]  Daydreaming about where they could go and what we might do in the future.
[07:13.920 --> 07:16.320]  And talk about just sort of, like, the general scope of things.
[07:16.580 --> 07:17.720]  A lot of it was talking about...
[07:17.720 --> 07:24.640]  One, I was talking about the echo of library development, where libraries started out with different models, from subscription to tax service, and they eventually all came to a model.
[07:24.720 --> 07:28.120]  So there was that fight out to see which model worked best for that community.
[07:28.640 --> 07:38.000]  The Kinkos versus Lugs, at the time, you know, some people were and still are trying to open tool gyms, which is very different than your, you know, hacker spaces.
[07:38.280 --> 07:41.960]  One is driven by a company who wants to make some profit and provide a service doing that.
[07:42.200 --> 07:47.480]  And the other is driven by people who maybe don't know what they're doing, but they're really passionate and they're just trying to get the access to technology.
[07:48.520 --> 07:50.820]  Hardware will be as easy as software was a big thing.
[07:50.980 --> 07:55.200]  That was a big, like, that was a big discussion point in 2008, was lowering the bar to hardware.
[07:55.480 --> 07:57.160]  Because Arduino was also getting popular.
[07:57.280 --> 07:58.960]  Arduino was also like, oh, guys, did you get this?
[07:59.340 --> 08:01.240]  You don't have to worry about AVR dude anymore.
[08:01.520 --> 08:02.700]  Just click a button and it works.
[08:03.440 --> 08:05.520]  And that was, you know, first time access.
[08:05.980 --> 08:07.080]  3D printing was new on the scene.
[08:07.320 --> 08:08.620]  You know, laser-coded DIY electronics.
[08:08.820 --> 08:09.900]  All stuff we're still doing now.
[08:10.080 --> 08:11.220]  But then it was a lot fresher.
[08:11.360 --> 08:16.100]  I think that's, again, that's one of those things where it's hard to look back and, you know, have a good context for.
[08:16.520 --> 08:17.160]  So, all right.
[08:17.240 --> 08:18.540]  So, I'm going to fast forward to 2012.
[08:18.920 --> 08:19.800]  Hey, you're here.
[08:20.060 --> 08:20.420]  Great.
[08:20.640 --> 08:21.280]  Give me the future.
[08:22.260 --> 08:23.420]  Tea, Earl Grey hot.
[08:23.600 --> 08:24.020]  It's great.
[08:25.260 --> 08:25.780]  So, yeah.
[08:26.060 --> 08:27.260]  3D printers are common, right?
[08:27.440 --> 08:28.500]  You can get these things anywhere.
[08:28.800 --> 08:29.760]  Hacker spaces are common.
[08:30.120 --> 08:32.400]  If you, how many people have a hacker space and driving distance?
[08:33.620 --> 08:35.420]  How many people are a member of a hacker space?
[08:36.100 --> 08:38.080]  How many people founded a hacker space?
[08:38.820 --> 08:39.400]  Look at this.
[08:39.480 --> 08:40.100]  This is awesome.
[08:40.340 --> 08:40.820]  This is great.
[08:41.300 --> 08:41.780]  So, yeah.
[08:41.940 --> 08:44.820]  So, I mean, it's not only is this stuff common, but we made it that way.
[08:44.980 --> 08:45.840]  This is ours.
[08:46.120 --> 08:47.420]  Like, we built this stuff.
[08:47.620 --> 08:48.520]  We designed this stuff.
[08:48.640 --> 08:49.420]  We built this community.
[08:49.760 --> 08:51.060]  We put our hours into the hardware.
[08:51.200 --> 08:53.460]  And we're reaping the rewards from that.
[08:54.720 --> 08:55.000]  Yeah.
[08:55.300 --> 08:55.900]  And the...
[08:56.500 --> 08:57.000]  I don't know.
[08:57.240 --> 08:58.360]  The revolution will be televised.
[08:58.520 --> 08:59.240]  It's also gonna be on Twitter.
[08:59.480 --> 09:01.160]  You can follow it at the revolution.
[09:02.160 --> 09:03.800]  It's really kind of mundane, but it's fun.
[09:04.180 --> 09:04.900]  You know, like this...
[09:04.900 --> 09:05.060]  I don't know.
[09:05.120 --> 09:06.700]  This stuff is getting attention, which is a lot of fun.
[09:08.320 --> 09:08.720]  So, yeah.
[09:08.860 --> 09:09.940]  You know, there's hundreds of hacker spaces.
[09:11.100 --> 09:12.920]  You know, Maker Faire, there used to be...
[09:12.920 --> 09:14.880]  In 2008, there were like two Maker Faires.
[09:14.880 --> 09:17.280]  And now I think there's like five official ones.
[09:17.440 --> 09:22.160]  There's about 15 unofficial, you know, community ones.
[09:23.500 --> 09:23.900]  The...
[09:23.900 --> 09:26.240]  The Make Magazine and the DIY scene has exploded.
[09:26.460 --> 09:28.060]  You know, Instructables is no longer the...
[09:28.060 --> 09:30.240]  The wasteland of people building chairs that it once was.
[09:30.360 --> 09:32.680]  It now has a lot of really awesome Instructables of high quality.
[09:34.920 --> 09:37.820]  At last count, I counted 23 3D printer companies.
[09:38.040 --> 09:38.660]  I could be wrong.
[09:38.760 --> 09:41.780]  I could be like double counting them because people keep buying each other and weird stuff.
[09:41.940 --> 09:42.220]  But...
[09:42.220 --> 09:43.160]  And a lot of those are startup.
[09:43.160 --> 09:44.440]  A lot of those are based on RepRap.
[09:44.580 --> 09:46.440]  A lot of those are based on various open-source designs.
[09:49.340 --> 09:51.720]  There's Kickstarters and new companies starting all the time.
[09:52.660 --> 09:53.380]  Indiegogo, Kickstarter.
[09:54.000 --> 09:56.400]  Some of that stuff is like made breaking into this a lot faster.
[09:56.520 --> 10:01.120]  So, we live in a much friendlier world for a lot of these ideas than we did a few years ago.
[10:02.320 --> 10:02.680]  So...
[10:02.680 --> 10:04.740]  So, I'm gonna focus for a second on the workspace.
[10:05.040 --> 10:06.080]  What's shifted since then.
[10:06.300 --> 10:07.080]  So, 2008.
[10:07.200 --> 10:08.120]  Hacker Spaces just started.
[10:08.260 --> 10:09.100]  Hacker Spaces panel.
[10:09.300 --> 10:11.740]  There's five to eight spaces, I would say.
[10:12.100 --> 10:12.460]  I...
[10:12.460 --> 10:14.280]  You know, it was kind of hard to go through and find an exact count.
[10:14.700 --> 10:16.420]  I did check on hackerspaces.org.
[10:16.520 --> 10:18.120]  There's over 200 hackerspaces now.
[10:18.280 --> 10:21.500]  Looking at the map of the U.S., like overlaying hackerspaces against population.
[10:22.240 --> 10:24.660]  Almost everybody is within an hour's drive of a space.
[10:24.780 --> 10:30.200]  Like, if you really want to make something, you can drive an hour, find a bunch of friends, and say, hey, how do I make this?
[10:30.280 --> 10:31.680]  Or go in and say, hey, I'm making this.
[10:31.760 --> 10:32.200]  Do you want to help me?
[10:33.300 --> 10:35.040]  Fab labs have expanded slowly.
[10:35.940 --> 10:40.660]  You know, in 2008, I could find information about six to ten fab labs.
[10:40.760 --> 10:43.540]  And I could find information about like 20 to 30 of them now.
[10:43.780 --> 10:47.960]  A bunch of them are like tech shop where there was a core fab lab and they're starting up different versions elsewhere.
[10:48.520 --> 10:49.420]  Third Ward is like this.
[10:49.480 --> 10:51.760]  Third Ward, you know, is moving into Philadelphia.
[10:52.240 --> 10:53.300]  So that's growing slowly.
[10:54.120 --> 10:55.260]  Sorry, tool gyms.
[10:55.620 --> 10:56.940]  Fab labs are university-owned.
[10:57.200 --> 11:01.480]  I have actually found problems finding numbers on the number of university-owned shops like that.
[11:01.960 --> 11:02.040]  So.
[11:03.520 --> 11:04.320]  Community and knowledge.
[11:04.500 --> 11:05.600]  I talked about this a couple of minutes ago.
[11:05.760 --> 11:12.960]  But yeah, so the ability to access, the ability to go out and find information, even in the last four years, has radically improved.
[11:13.280 --> 11:18.740]  I was sort of tooling around trying to look up some different obscure things to see like, oh, if I wanted to build this, what would I get stuck on?
[11:18.740 --> 11:19.820]  I spent some time.
[11:20.820 --> 11:24.260]  And, you know, four years ago saying, hey, I want to fix this thing.
[11:24.380 --> 11:25.320]  How do I 3D print a model?
[11:25.580 --> 11:30.580]  You would find like two sketchy forum posts that say download this OpenSCAD software and use it.
[11:30.700 --> 11:32.340]  And now there's just volumes of that.
[11:32.460 --> 11:36.280]  So the knowledge and the accessibility of this stuff is increasing every year.
[11:36.420 --> 11:38.380]  And we're in a much better position now than we were a few years ago.
[11:39.720 --> 11:42.300]  3D printers, this is something I know quite a bit about.
[11:42.940 --> 11:46.720]  So 3D printers basically have come into existence in the last four years.
[11:46.720 --> 11:50.520]  You know, four years ago, RepRap had just hit the news.
[11:50.720 --> 11:52.740]  It was just, you know, there were a handful of models.
[11:52.860 --> 11:53.800]  Everybody wanted to build one.
[11:54.660 --> 11:57.300]  And now there's a plethora of 3D printers.
[11:58.180 --> 12:05.500]  So I'm going to go through a couple of the different sort of families of 3D printers real quick just to give some folks who might know an idea of how all that fits together.
[12:07.980 --> 12:09.080]  So yeah, 2008.
[12:09.760 --> 12:10.980]  RepRap was about the only option.
[12:11.380 --> 12:12.360]  The instructions were on a wiki.
[12:12.500 --> 12:14.880]  You had to go and you had to source everything and download all of it yourself.
[12:15.900 --> 12:18.020]  And the model at that point was the RepRap Darwin.
[12:18.500 --> 12:21.060]  And it was, you know, had the cross struts.
[12:21.180 --> 12:22.120]  It was actually kind of a pain to build.
[12:22.200 --> 12:23.460]  A lot of the pieces were a bit specialized.
[12:23.880 --> 12:25.480]  And getting them made right was pretty tough.
[12:25.560 --> 12:26.780]  Getting it assembled was pretty tough.
[12:28.660 --> 12:31.680]  In 2009, MakerBot had the Cupcake CNC released.
[12:32.220 --> 12:34.560]  And RepRap Mendel also came out.
[12:34.880 --> 12:38.840]  In both cases, they were an improvement in assembly, an improvement in functionality.
[12:39.380 --> 12:42.580]  A lot of the extruder had started to change and become a lot more reliable.
[12:42.980 --> 12:46.480]  A lot of them still had like little tiny tweak knobs that you had to tweak.
[12:46.800 --> 12:48.280]  It's totally, we don't do that anymore.
[12:48.440 --> 12:49.420]  We're so much cooler now.
[12:51.300 --> 12:53.020]  So 2010 thingamatic came out.
[12:53.180 --> 12:54.740]  And same thing 2010 Huxley came out.
[12:56.140 --> 12:58.740]  You know, again, both lowered the bar.
[12:58.880 --> 12:59.740]  Both improved how things are.
[12:59.980 --> 13:02.960]  Huxley has, you know, become a pretty popular platform.
[13:04.860 --> 13:06.560]  2012 MakerBot Replicator was released.
[13:06.780 --> 13:08.960]  And also the PrinterBot was released this year.
[13:09.100 --> 13:15.760]  And this is actually interesting because you see the industry going in a few different directions in the field of models diversifying.
[13:15.920 --> 13:19.100]  Because it used to be Cupcake, CNC, RepRap.
[13:19.160 --> 13:20.940]  All these things had reasonably similar build sizes.
[13:21.100 --> 13:22.560]  All of them had reasonably similar features.
[13:22.560 --> 13:26.180]  And they were kind of like spreading out a little bit from that core design and evolving.
[13:26.440 --> 13:30.200]  And now that tree of evolution has grown a lot.
[13:30.360 --> 13:31.940]  And you have PrinterBot over here, really tiny.
[13:32.300 --> 13:35.000]  You have Replicator over here whose goal is the high reliability.
[13:35.360 --> 13:38.100]  And there's all sorts of awesome things everywhere in between.
[13:39.780 --> 13:44.220]  And, you know, also some of the big companies are starting to push into this market.
[13:44.360 --> 13:46.900]  This year saw the release of the Mojo and the Cube.
[13:47.140 --> 13:48.420]  And I'll talk a little bit about those later.
[13:48.520 --> 13:53.100]  But these are coming out of the traditional 3D printer companies that have the original patents from the 70s and 80s.
[13:53.200 --> 13:56.080]  And who sat on them like a giant egg of money.
[13:56.540 --> 13:57.380]  Giant money egg.
[13:57.520 --> 13:59.380]  And they just were like, hey, I'm just gonna sit on this money egg.
[13:59.380 --> 14:03.400]  And, you know, now that there's smaller 3D printers spreading out around them.
[14:03.580 --> 14:06.960]  They're looking back and trying to get into the market that they see.
[14:10.000 --> 14:11.160]  No, I'm so lost.
[14:11.400 --> 14:11.760]  Cool.
[14:12.040 --> 14:12.660]  And there's a new one.
[14:12.760 --> 14:14.160]  A new warrior has entered the ring.
[14:15.520 --> 14:16.600]  DLP projectors this year.
[14:17.060 --> 14:18.480]  This, you know, a few years ago.
[14:18.920 --> 14:22.320]  Since actually like 2009, I'd seen people talking about, oh, you can use a projector and resin.
[14:22.340 --> 14:23.040]  And it's really cool.
[14:23.200 --> 14:24.200]  And there's commercial things that do it.
[14:24.200 --> 14:26.360]  And this year, it's become a thing.
[14:26.500 --> 14:27.740]  There's several Kickstarters for it.
[14:27.840 --> 14:34.220]  And it looks like this may be one of the new technologies that, in four years, I'm like, hey guys, remember when DLP, we were just daydering about it.
[14:35.060 --> 14:38.560]  And, you know, the Segway, the B9 creator, both on Kickstarter now.
[14:38.800 --> 14:43.320]  And, you know, this is basically a projector where you have a soft resin.
[14:43.540 --> 14:45.160]  And you're shining light into it.
[14:45.240 --> 14:46.320]  And the resin hardens in the light.
[14:46.640 --> 14:48.700]  And so you can build an object that way.
[14:49.080 --> 14:51.660]  So this is a technology that's just coming out.
[14:52.420 --> 14:53.220]  Laser cutters.
[14:53.220 --> 14:56.800]  In the four years since laser cutters, they actually haven't changed a whole lot.
[14:57.680 --> 14:59.480]  There's a couple open-source laser cutters.
[14:59.600 --> 15:00.840]  The instructions are still hard to find.
[15:00.960 --> 15:02.380]  You still have to source all of the material yourself.
[15:03.240 --> 15:05.140]  The Zing still costs $8,000.
[15:05.580 --> 15:07.320]  It cost $8,000 in 2008.
[15:07.400 --> 15:08.540]  It cost $8,000 today.
[15:08.980 --> 15:10.980]  So I don't know if that's a win or loss.
[15:11.240 --> 15:12.660]  But this is one of the things we talked about.
[15:12.800 --> 15:16.860]  There was talk in 2008 that we were gonna, you know, there's gonna be both open-source laser cutter companies.
[15:17.100 --> 15:19.380]  And that has not, that hasn't worked out.
[15:19.460 --> 15:22.640]  That's one of the things that we're hoping for that, you know, It just happened in a different way.
[15:23.980 --> 15:26.280]  Another one is, like, electronics has changed.
[15:27.300 --> 15:33.260]  Doing some research on what has changed in electronics was interesting because there hasn't been a revolution in electronics.
[15:33.260 --> 15:40.380]  It's not like, oh, hey, we had, you know, Atmel and then suddenly there's this and now you can just snap your fingers and make things.
[15:41.160 --> 15:43.140]  It hasn't been a revolution, but it has been an evolution.
[15:43.520 --> 15:45.380]  There's bigger processors you can get.
[15:45.500 --> 15:49.220]  There's, you know, the Raspberry Pi, the Beagle Bones, the Arduinos.
[15:49.460 --> 15:51.240]  So instead of being like, hey, you can only get Navy.
[15:51.260 --> 15:53.540]  There's actually a family of different things you can get.
[15:54.140 --> 15:59.100]  The ability to, like, plug it in and get it running within a few minutes instead of a few hours has really improved.
[15:59.440 --> 16:02.840]  But none of this has been brand new technology that nothing is similar to it.
[16:02.940 --> 16:04.560]  It's just been every year it creeps forward.
[16:05.680 --> 16:09.360]  And this is one of the big discussions in 2008 that also didn't pan out.
[16:09.520 --> 16:14.780]  There was a lot of talk in 2008, 2009 about building something in hardware is going to be as easy as software.
[16:14.900 --> 16:16.980]  You're going to get, like, you know, you're going to get your Eagle.
[16:17.120 --> 16:21.240]  You'll just drag and drop the thing and you'll hit auto route and it'll auto route and you'll hit auto estimate.
[16:21.260 --> 16:24.300]  And it'll give you a nice little graph of the electronic waveforms.
[16:24.440 --> 16:31.680]  And that really, there's some commercial software that does that, but it hasn't, it hasn't become something that just, you know, nerds in general and hackers in general have access to.
[16:33.560 --> 16:40.600]  So, yeah, so an overview is basically, you know, there's, what, more people, there's more hacker spaces, there's a lot more maker fairs.
[16:40.960 --> 16:44.100]  Everybody's trying to make a 3D printer company these days, which is kind of awesome.
[16:45.440 --> 16:47.700]  So, in the end, you know, we, it's kind of awesome.
[16:47.940 --> 16:54.040]  Four years ago, I gave a talk here at HOPE and I was, like, waving my hands and saying, guys, we're going to do all this cool stuff.
[16:58.280 --> 17:00.440]  Like, there's hacker spaces everywhere.
[17:00.680 --> 17:04.100]  There's the ability to go out and make a plastic object pretty reliably.
[17:04.480 --> 17:09.760]  Like, you know, like, you can, not every single one's going to be perfect, but you can design something and have it in your hand hours later.
[17:10.320 --> 17:12.520]  And really, 2008, that was a daydream.
[17:12.620 --> 17:16.060]  That was, like, this is the future and if we can do this in the next 10 years, it'll be awesome.
[17:16.680 --> 17:17.920]  And we did it in four.
[17:19.220 --> 17:20.180]  I guess, so what's next?
[17:20.300 --> 17:29.420]  So, the next section, I'm just going to talk about some of my crazy ideas about what might be next on the plate and where things still could be improved and get worked on.
[17:31.200 --> 17:39.120]  So, one is, I think, a lot of the community fabrication stuff from fabrication itself to the community aspect of DIY, stuff like that.
[17:39.980 --> 17:47.860]  Is, is somewhere on this first peak chunk of this, of this awesome timeline of... Do you guys know this?
[17:47.880 --> 17:48.380]  This is really great.
[17:48.700 --> 17:50.580]  This is, man, I'm sure I remember it.
[17:52.080 --> 17:53.940]  Granite's, I think it's Granite's chart.
[17:54.800 --> 17:55.020]  Somebody?
[17:55.380 --> 17:55.820]  Gardeners.
[17:56.080 --> 17:56.960]  Gardeners, thank you.
[17:57.940 --> 17:59.440]  This is Gardeners hype cycle.
[17:59.680 --> 18:01.700]  And you start out with technology trigger, right?
[18:02.140 --> 18:03.180]  And then you get...
[18:03.180 --> 18:07.180]  That's when everybody's writing newspaper articles about it, how cool it is, blog posts.
[18:08.600 --> 18:10.920]  Trough of disillusionment, that's when it gets to Twitter, because everybody's angry.
[18:11.080 --> 18:12.060]  They're like, ah, I hate this.
[18:12.120 --> 18:12.860]  It doesn't actually work.
[18:14.480 --> 18:19.420]  Enlightenment, I don't know if that's really... That's more of slope of, like, giving up on your expectations or something.
[18:19.540 --> 18:20.340]  And then it's actually useful.
[18:21.020 --> 18:24.320]  And I really think we're still, on all this stuff, we're still somewhere in this first bump.
[18:25.160 --> 18:30.820]  I don't think we've reached the trough on any of these technologies or any of these ideas yet.
[18:32.840 --> 18:36.640]  And I think part of that trough is going to be when we start to realize what's going to fail.
[18:36.900 --> 18:40.040]  Like, right now, when you talk to people about 3D printing, it's all about what the cool stuff is.
[18:40.340 --> 18:46.420]  Nobody talks about, here's what's gonna go wrong, here's what's gonna fail, here's how people are gonna get angry, here's the lawsuits.
[18:46.420 --> 18:53.640]  Michael Weinberg has an awesome talk tomorrow, I believe, which is gonna be, it'll be awesome if they don't screw it up.
[18:54.140 --> 18:57.320]  And they, I think, means Washington, but kind of means us too.
[18:57.640 --> 18:58.660]  But I'll get to that in a second.
[19:00.120 --> 19:03.960]  How, yeah, how many people have read Zitrin's book, The Future of the Internet and How to Stop It?
[19:05.040 --> 19:06.100]  It's a good book.
[19:06.200 --> 19:12.180]  It's about how there's basically a push to close down the Internet and a lot of its peer-to-peerness.
[19:12.580 --> 19:19.740]  You know, people wanna enclose it like they traditionally enclosed shared farming land and privatize it.
[19:20.340 --> 19:25.540]  And he did a good job of spotting early on, like, what's gonna happen after that trough, what those failures are.
[19:25.720 --> 19:33.780]  And I do think that, like, you don't see a lot of colleagues on 3D printing talking about, like, oh, is it equally accessible to people who are well-off and people who are poor?
[19:33.900 --> 19:36.480]  You don't see a lot of girls talking about, like, okay, how's this gonna get abused?
[19:36.980 --> 19:40.000]  So I think that we're not, we're not in that disillusionment yet.
[19:43.700 --> 19:49.340]  Yeah, so later today Michael Weinberg, or today, later this weekend Michael Weinberg will be giving a talk that basically recaps this.
[19:49.600 --> 19:52.480]  This is an awesome and fantastic presentation.
[19:52.480 --> 19:53.520]  It's an awesome PDF.
[19:53.800 --> 19:55.680]  You can just go to public knowledge and download it.
[19:56.960 --> 20:01.400]  The very long story made short is that, yeah, it'll be awesome if they don't screw it up.
[20:02.560 --> 20:04.940]  Sharing music has sort of become the original sin of the Internet.
[20:04.940 --> 20:08.660]  There's all this stuff where they're like, oh, yeah, but we want to block file shares, and that'll...
[20:08.660 --> 20:15.160]  And they became a boogeyman, and they became a way to say, we want to limit this because of file shares.
[20:16.340 --> 20:19.740]  And one of the things Michael Weinberg has done is, like, they're gonna do this with 3D printing.
[20:19.900 --> 20:29.000]  When companies start to see that you can buy, you can print yourself a little anime character keychain, rather than going and paying eight bucks for it at the comic shop, they're gonna be like, oh, guys, I don't know if we should allow that.
[20:29.000 --> 20:32.160]  Can we, like, tell those people to take those designs down and delete them and stuff?
[20:32.880 --> 20:34.000]  And they're gonna try to do it.
[20:34.100 --> 20:37.780]  And his point is that we should be thoughtful about this and prepare it ahead of time.
[20:37.860 --> 20:43.380]  So if you have... if you don't have a talk you already want to look in that slot, I would, like, open it up and circle it, Michael Weinberg.
[20:43.920 --> 20:44.920]  It's an awesome presentation.
[20:45.100 --> 20:46.960]  It's as valid today as when he wrote it a couple years ago.
[20:47.500 --> 20:57.960]  And it's basically, like, what we need to do to defend these new superpowers we have, because they're superpowers, and people want to take them away, and they want to own those superpowers, you know, themselves.
[20:59.880 --> 21:02.900]  And a lot of this stuff is also the sharp edge of open-source hardware.
[21:04.020 --> 21:08.100]  You know, it's a little bit rusty, you can cut yourself on it, but it's open-source, and you can build your own designs.
[21:08.620 --> 21:15.720]  One of the things that we didn't see four years ago that I think will happen in the next four years is you're gonna see a lot more stuff being built as open-source hardware.
[21:16.080 --> 21:20.200]  I think one of the things that's gonna cause that is there's so much technology to build on top of.
[21:20.260 --> 21:28.400]  A lot of the reason Linux has gotten into so many devices is because as a developer, as an engineer, you look at it and you're like, oh, man, I can save two years by using this platform.
[21:28.720 --> 21:33.820]  But if I do save those two years, those two years will cost me sharing this information in the future.
[21:34.320 --> 21:50.120]  And there's kind of a double bargains to the Faustian bargain there, where, like, you're giving up your future entitlement to privacy into your, you know, to your intellectual property in exchange for leveraging all this to get there.
[21:50.420 --> 21:57.200]  So I think one of the things that has happened is driven a lot by 3D printers is that open-source hardware has become more of a norm.
[21:57.320 --> 21:58.380]  There's more and more tools out there.
[21:58.500 --> 21:59.460]  There's more and more boards out there.
[21:59.880 --> 22:03.560]  And as people build on top of that, they're gonna be forced to open-source their hardware.
[22:03.980 --> 22:05.140]  And like Linux, it's gonna snowball.
[22:05.380 --> 22:08.340]  And hopefully it'll get to the point where there's just libraries open-source part.
[22:08.460 --> 22:15.500]  And it's so tempting to just use that to get a jump start that people will choose to use that and then kind of be leveraged into joining the community.
[22:15.980 --> 22:26.060]  Even if their short-term economic interest isn't there, the long-term overall, like, better quality of life and the big economic picture will support it.
[22:26.260 --> 22:30.740]  So I think that open hardware is gonna be one of the big things that shifts in the next few years.
[22:32.680 --> 22:40.900]  Another thing I think is really interesting about this that's gonna start changing is the marginal cost of functionality.
[22:40.900 --> 22:41.720]  It's kind of interesting.
[22:41.840 --> 22:49.000]  When you're manufacturing hardware, most things, if you're making a million iPods, the real cost is the marginal cost of the iPod.
[22:49.080 --> 22:52.500]  It's the n plus 1th iPod, what that cost versus the nth iPod.
[22:52.760 --> 22:57.500]  And all of the engineering, all of the design becomes, it's a margin of error.
[22:57.680 --> 23:00.320]  It's like it disappears into the decimal points when you make a million of them.
[23:01.400 --> 23:05.360]  The weird thing is, on the total opposite side, software is the exact opposite.
[23:05.680 --> 23:19.280]  Software, it's the marginal cost of new features because when you copy that CD, when you email a PDF to someone, when you zip up that, you know, when you zip up that copy of Ubuntu and put it on a flash drive and throw it to your friend across the room,
[23:19.480 --> 23:22.000]  that copy is basically free.
[23:22.460 --> 23:26.400]  And the real cost is all the setup costs and all the design costs and all the build costs.
[23:26.820 --> 23:37.560]  So I think there's actually, there may be a really interesting cost curve that comes out of the DIY manufacturing, where it's not going to be totally free because the designs aren't free.
[23:37.660 --> 23:41.440]  But it's going to be cheap because you're leveraging all that designs, you can use all this open content.
[23:41.780 --> 23:43.600]  But at the same time, it's still going to cost you materials.
[23:43.760 --> 23:47.680]  So I think both of those curves are very simple, hockey-shaped curves.
[23:47.680 --> 23:56.320]  And I think a lot of the 3D printing, a lot of the DIY manufacturing curves are going to be a more complex, you know, a more complex equation to figure out, is this worth it?
[23:56.340 --> 23:56.780]  Is it not?
[23:58.020 --> 23:59.260]  Are we going to make money on hardware?
[23:59.360 --> 24:00.340]  Are we going to make money on software?
[24:00.460 --> 24:01.640]  Are we just not going to make any money at all?
[24:02.000 --> 24:03.560]  I think those are going to be some interesting questions.
[24:04.760 --> 24:06.720]  And right now, another one is software is a sweet spot.
[24:08.080 --> 24:18.680]  A lot of the software for all of this DIY fabrication stuff, a lot of the software for managing groups, a lot of the software for having a community space, for managing inventory, managing dues, stuff like that.
[24:18.880 --> 24:19.760]  All this is horrible.
[24:20.400 --> 24:23.860]  So I think another thing is basically it's really interesting.
[24:24.020 --> 24:26.460]  Software is supposedly really easy to make.
[24:26.600 --> 24:27.260]  I don't believe that.
[24:28.580 --> 24:32.260]  And there's all these problems that are basically really good software problems.
[24:32.760 --> 24:37.260]  Managing a community group, managing inventory, managing search supplies, Nothing really does this well.
[24:37.560 --> 24:39.460]  I've looked at commercial software.
[24:39.540 --> 24:40.460]  I've looked at open-source software.
[24:40.560 --> 24:41.460]  There's a lot of solutions.
[24:42.100 --> 24:43.780]  All of them are really janky and hokey.
[24:44.500 --> 24:47.120]  And then to go to the fabrication side, same thing on the fabrication side.
[24:47.200 --> 24:56.820]  If you open up your average CNC milling program and you want to understand what it's actually doing or what it's milling or make a guess at how successful it will be, it's actually pretty tough.
[24:57.140 --> 24:58.780]  You have to read through the G-code lines.
[24:58.860 --> 25:01.100]  You have to really know the machine inside and out to trust it.
[25:02.260 --> 25:05.060]  3D printers are a little bit better, but they're nearly as bad.
[25:05.060 --> 25:08.980]  The 3D printing software out there is, you know, and I work on it.
[25:09.180 --> 25:10.680]  I feel no shame in saying this.
[25:10.820 --> 25:11.600]  It's a bit hokey.
[25:11.740 --> 25:12.740]  It's a bit glued together.
[25:13.060 --> 25:14.740]  And there's a lot of work to improve that.
[25:14.800 --> 25:28.720]  And I think that as we talk about fabrication and accessibility, that accessibility of user interface, that accessibility of I do this and I can assume what the machine is going to do or I can assume how it works, I think there's going to be huge wins there.
[25:29.160 --> 25:35.460]  And I think that's, that's one of the things that a lot of people are like working on right now furiously to try to, to try to improve it.
[25:37.580 --> 25:41.560]  So I guess that's a little bit of overview of where I think things kind of are and where they're going in the next few years.
[25:42.100 --> 25:47.780]  And this next section is just crazy ideas and rants and, and BS.
[25:48.540 --> 25:52.240]  So one of them is seed versus feed.
[25:52.360 --> 25:57.300]  I think a lot of this stuff gets very interesting because it's getting back to that empowering the community.
[25:58.000 --> 25:58.400]  For example, who was very subtle and focused closely.
[25:58.400 --> 25:59.580]  How many people read DiamondAge?
[25:59.780 --> 26:00.360]  Raise your hand.
[26:01.120 --> 26:03.760]  How many people read The Illustrated Primer, raise your hand.
[26:05.260 --> 26:06.880]  How many people know that they're the same book?
[26:07.120 --> 26:07.420]  Raise your hand.
[26:08.420 --> 26:09.520]  How many people are asleep?
[26:09.760 --> 26:10.100]  Raise your hand.
[26:11.020 --> 26:11.460]  There you go.
[26:11.580 --> 26:11.700]  Great.
[26:13.060 --> 26:17.340]  So one of the big talks they talked about this is the seed verse the feed, but the new Atlanteans have the feed.
[26:17.560 --> 26:22.960]  They, they pull the molecules in and they control how that's converted into the basic elements.
[26:22.960 --> 26:26.480]  And then you buy the compilers and decompilers.
[26:26.620 --> 26:29.600]  And that was a control technology where it's centrally held.
[26:29.920 --> 26:34.140]  And the seed technology is, okay, here's a seed and it builds what you need on site.
[26:34.880 --> 26:38.640]  And I think there's some interesting talk about where these things intersect.
[26:38.800 --> 26:42.000]  A lot of people, I think, saw the Internet as a giant seed technology.
[26:42.000 --> 26:43.280]  This is a peer-to-peer technology.
[26:43.480 --> 26:46.180]  And I think to a certain extent it hasn't lived up to those expectations.
[26:46.520 --> 26:52.140]  I think the Internet has really become another massive feeding technology where a few websites get the most visits.
[26:52.140 --> 26:53.400]  You really aren't a peer.
[26:53.560 --> 26:54.380]  You really are a client.
[26:54.500 --> 26:59.680]  Ninety percent of people here, if you look at how you use the information, you look at how you use the Internet, you're not serving stuff.
[26:59.780 --> 27:00.760]  You're consuming stuff.
[27:00.960 --> 27:03.080]  And you're not a peer with anything.
[27:03.280 --> 27:11.000]  You're, you know, you're just this little guy trying to, you know, compete against CNN or trying to set up your little web server that will never be as good as a big guy.
[27:11.100 --> 27:14.860]  So I think that, I don't know, I think there's some interesting things to talk about in this.
[27:16.540 --> 27:24.300]  Having this home manufacturing, getting laser cutters, 3D printers and things into people's houses, I think will push towards that seed technology.
[27:24.500 --> 27:26.500]  It will push towards, hey, I can build this myself.
[27:27.340 --> 27:34.800]  And I think we may have gotten lucky as a civilization that the people that invented this were open-source nuts rather than people who wanted to control stuff.
[27:34.800 --> 27:46.900]  I think that if, four years ago, the RepRap project was instead, was like, you know, upstate, anon, colleges, commercial 3D startup, I think it would be a much different ecosystem today.
[27:47.300 --> 27:56.360]  And I think we're really lucky that a lot of the people are initially into RepRap and initially into 3D printing and stuff, were that big on open-source.
[27:58.820 --> 28:01.340]  Another thing that's interesting is invention velocity, right?
[28:01.340 --> 28:04.340]  We talk about the rate of change increases every year.
[28:04.500 --> 28:10.720]  And every year there's more tools, there's more source code, there's more example boards, there's more brains to pick in all of these topics.
[28:11.940 --> 28:14.580]  So one of the things is, like, we are increasing the rate of velocity.
[28:14.760 --> 28:20.080]  Like, you know, 3D printing companies almost always are building their test models on 3D printers.
[28:20.220 --> 28:20.720]  It's kind of cool.
[28:20.820 --> 28:22.120]  You build the thing that builds the next thing.
[28:23.280 --> 28:27.600]  You know, software design companies are using the faster CPUs, designing even faster CPUs.
[28:27.600 --> 28:28.740]  It all leverages itself.
[28:29.160 --> 28:34.620]  One of the interesting things about this is that then, because of that, patents become a bigger and bigger delay.
[28:34.960 --> 28:42.980]  If you're talking about, like, the McCormick Reaper and you patent that design and you get it for 20 years, that's not driving the next level of design.
[28:43.160 --> 28:52.080]  But if you patent a nifty new 3D printing technique and you have that for 20 years, that really slows down your ability to do the next design and the next design on top of that.
[28:52.080 --> 28:59.000]  Like, you're accumulating your delays by having that delay at the first level.
[28:59.300 --> 29:02.660]  Your n plus one, n plus second levels all get slowed down.
[29:03.940 --> 29:11.460]  Another interesting thing I think is, I think that a lot of the 3D printing community and a lot of the 3D printing ecosystem is actually really robust.
[29:11.500 --> 29:19.100]  And I think the sign of that is all of the variation and all of the big competition getting interested and all the small innovations happening.
[29:19.560 --> 29:24.180]  It's kind of tough sometimes to talk about a movement as a whole being a part of it.
[29:24.240 --> 29:36.060]  Because if I put on my, like, I'm into open-source, I'm into 3D printing hat, and I look at 8 million competitors and I look at, you know, 23 startups doing 3D printing, like, that's really awesome.
[29:36.200 --> 29:39.080]  That's competition, that's variation, that's selection.
[29:39.640 --> 29:43.840]  Like, that's, you know, that's evolution in action on a business scale.
[29:43.840 --> 29:51.920]  On the other hand, if I put on my, like, you know, software hat, hey, I work at a 3D printing company and I build stuff, it actually is kind of scary because suddenly it's less guaranteed.
[29:51.920 --> 29:56.860]  And there's this interesting balance between, you know, markets like competition.
[29:57.080 --> 29:58.680]  A player in a market hates it.
[29:58.760 --> 29:59.300]  They don't want that.
[29:59.560 --> 30:12.560]  So I think as a market, as a whole big thing, I think that there's actually a really good sign that Cube and Mojo and all these different variations that are based on, like, the rep rep designs are out there.
[30:12.560 --> 30:14.080]  Because I think it's going to drive innovation forward.
[30:14.760 --> 30:19.720]  If you don't know, the quick shot here is that is Bot Mills' bot.
[30:19.880 --> 30:21.240]  They were recently purchased by 3D Systems.
[30:21.720 --> 30:23.620]  3D Systems is buying everything they can.
[30:23.860 --> 30:24.420]  It's kind of amazing.
[30:24.580 --> 30:27.560]  Every couple of weeks there's a new, like, hey, 3D Systems bought Nifty Startup X.
[30:27.980 --> 30:29.720]  And, you know, that's their way of doing it.
[30:30.180 --> 30:34.440]  The Mojo is one of the commercial desktop 3D printers that came out earlier this year.
[30:35.080 --> 30:37.300]  They're trying to get into the desktop-grade market.
[30:37.780 --> 30:40.320]  And that's really kind of more for a professional design agency.
[30:41.240 --> 30:42.460]  In the other corner is the Cube.
[30:42.660 --> 30:49.620]  The Cube is another... that's another 3D printer company that comes with a cartridge.
[30:50.320 --> 30:53.500]  And then the Buildatron is based on Alpha One Labs, I think.
[30:53.600 --> 30:54.500]  Based on Alpha One Labs.
[30:55.140 --> 30:55.980]  And the other one is Bot Mills.
[30:56.260 --> 30:58.600]  The interesting thing is the top two really come out of the rep rep community.
[30:58.820 --> 31:00.200]  They just use the standard plastic.
[31:00.420 --> 31:02.660]  You can just, you know, do whatever you want with them.
[31:02.760 --> 31:03.340]  You can take them apart.
[31:03.440 --> 31:04.000]  Designs are online.
[31:04.280 --> 31:06.480]  And the bottom two really come out of the commercial world.
[31:06.480 --> 31:08.300]  And you can tell just from their designs.
[31:08.400 --> 31:09.920]  Like, these guys have, like, sealed cartridges.
[31:10.520 --> 31:13.020]  They have, like, magic fluid that you use to wash things off.
[31:13.200 --> 31:14.600]  Like, everything is proprietary.
[31:14.640 --> 31:17.180]  Everything is, like, the ink cartridge-based system.
[31:17.300 --> 31:19.340]  Where, do you really know if your ink cartridge is empty or not?
[31:19.420 --> 31:20.740]  No, but the little light says change it.
[31:20.900 --> 31:22.740]  So you buy another $100 ink cartridge.
[31:23.280 --> 31:33.240]  And, you know, it's just interesting to see the assumptions and the designs that people generate are very much based in, you know, their ideology and where they're coming from.
[31:34.840 --> 31:37.780]  Another interesting project in this line is the Global Village construction set.
[31:37.960 --> 31:38.940]  This is a really cool project.
[31:39.060 --> 31:42.720]  They're trying to build everything you need to basically build up a civilization.
[31:43.000 --> 31:48.900]  And they're trying to have forklifts and trucks and brick makers and bread ovens, things like that.
[31:49.820 --> 31:52.000]  And there's several really cool things about this.
[31:52.080 --> 31:59.280]  And one is it's an attempt to take this model and take the open-source model and put it out onto all sorts of types of products and types of projects.
[32:00.380 --> 32:03.300]  I think one of the interesting things is what projects they've picked and what they haven't.
[32:03.560 --> 32:06.120]  I think they've done a really good job of picking some of the big equipment.
[32:06.460 --> 32:14.120]  But if you really look at the things that have saved human time, water, like getting access to water has been one of the biggest time savers for humanity.
[32:14.820 --> 32:20.320]  And washing clothes and doing some, you know, some maintenance tests around the house have been a really big time saver.
[32:20.600 --> 32:25.820]  So if you're really looking to go to those construction set, you know, they're looking at like, oh, here's how you build a building.
[32:26.000 --> 32:28.900]  And there's not so much of like, oh, here's how you wash clothes, here's how you keep water.
[32:29.640 --> 32:33.640]  So it's just interesting to see what focus happens in these different groups.
[32:34.820 --> 32:39.960]  And I think that I don't think that this is going to grow and adopt the same way that the DUNIC technology is done.
[32:40.060 --> 32:50.100]  I think that there's enough commercial companies and enough competition, enough people being pretty efficient at building these things, even if they're making a lot of profit at it, that it's going to be hard to break in and say, oh, we're going to do an open-source version.
[32:50.100 --> 32:58.260]  Like, nobody is pushing out for an open-source refrigerator, which I really want because I can't get my refrigerator to, like, to get the temperatures I want.
[32:58.340 --> 32:59.700]  I'm like, where's the firmware, right?
[32:59.780 --> 33:02.060]  I want to make this 10 degrees, and I can't.
[33:02.120 --> 33:02.960]  I can only go to 6.
[33:04.300 --> 33:10.560]  But it's interesting that only new technologies, I think, are really going to benefit from this shift towards open-source.
[33:10.780 --> 33:19.320]  And I think it's going to be hard to go back and do what global, those construction set is doing as they're trying to push this back into existing industries and existing products.
[33:19.320 --> 33:21.660]  And I think that's, I think that's harder than anybody.
[33:21.900 --> 33:22.940]  I think this happened before.
[33:24.460 --> 33:26.120]  Creating this talk and going through this stuff.
[33:26.800 --> 33:33.100]  I was looking at a lot of stuff, and frankly, a lot of what we have, and a lot of the technology here, it isn't rocket science.
[33:33.260 --> 33:38.560]  A lot of the open-source projects are not, are not something that you need six years of education to do.
[33:38.680 --> 33:41.780]  Like, a two year degree can really teach you enough to do most of this stuff.
[33:42.720 --> 33:45.880]  And, you know, it's just interesting that it, that it took this long.
[33:46.000 --> 33:48.900]  A lot of the technology that is, is driving open-source right now.
[33:49.980 --> 33:52.740]  You know, the laser cutters, some of the 3D printing stuff.
[33:53.780 --> 33:56.120]  A lot of the circuit design, a lot of the accessibility.
[33:56.360 --> 33:57.560]  Like, it's been around for years.
[33:57.780 --> 34:00.440]  And it's really interesting to me, like, why this never happened before.
[34:01.260 --> 34:03.520]  And I, I don't think it was just patents.
[34:03.660 --> 34:09.600]  I think there's something about the access to knowledge and the ambient information that you can draw on.
[34:09.600 --> 34:11.260]  And the ability to say, I need to learn this.
[34:11.380 --> 34:12.740]  I don't need to go out and hunt it down.
[34:12.920 --> 34:18.000]  I can set up my computer and, and, you know, and mess around and dig it up little by little, piece by piece.
[34:18.120 --> 34:22.380]  Like, there's something about the graspability that I don't think has anything to do with the legal climate.
[34:22.380 --> 34:25.640]  I don't think it has anything to do with the actual difficulty of the technology.
[34:25.640 --> 34:28.640]  I think it has a lot to do with how we share information, how we access it.
[34:29.660 --> 34:31.740]  And I'm curious, if anybody has a good theory, I'd love to hear it.
[34:31.800 --> 34:35.540]  Like, why this took so long to take off and why this didn't happen before.
[34:37.420 --> 34:39.580]  So, yeah, so computing fabrication 2016.
[34:40.220 --> 34:47.820]  So, based on sort of the crazy ideas aspect of it, this is kind of what I'm guessing where things are going to go.
[34:48.100 --> 34:49.880]  And I'm, you know, just guessing.
[34:51.000 --> 34:53.520]  I don't think, I don't think DIY spaces are going to be a solid ball.
[34:53.680 --> 34:57.360]  I think a lot of people right now are really into hacker spaces, are really into DIY spaces.
[34:57.620 --> 35:00.320]  I think they bring a ton to a community.
[35:00.940 --> 35:05.900]  But I see these efforts like, oh, you know, local village library is going to set up their own hacker space.
[35:06.080 --> 35:06.960]  I think that's awesome.
[35:07.060 --> 35:07.820]  I think they should do it.
[35:08.060 --> 35:14.740]  But I also think that a lot of them have, a lot of them have overzealous ambitions for what that could become.
[35:15.120 --> 35:17.180]  So, I think a lot of spaces are going to level off.
[35:17.280 --> 35:20.200]  And they're going to reach their level of activity that will become their level of activity.
[35:20.340 --> 35:23.640]  A lot of them are still like, they get really busy and then they slow down and then they get busy again.
[35:23.640 --> 35:28.920]  And I think that's going to become just another, you know, just another project, another community group people get involved in.
[35:29.580 --> 35:31.620]  And I think some of the funded versions are going to get defunded.
[35:31.660 --> 35:38.340]  I think some people went out to nonprofits, some people went out to groups and they had these big visions of everyone in town will learn how to solder.
[35:39.220 --> 35:44.820]  And I think in the next four years, people are going to realize that's not, not everybody needs to learn how to solder and everybody wants to learn how to solder.
[35:45.480 --> 35:48.400]  So I think it's going to, I think it's going to level out.
[35:49.600 --> 35:53.180]  I also think it's interesting because I think it's becoming a maker culture rather than a hacker culture.
[35:53.180 --> 35:58.980]  I think a lot of the space, I think, was driven by hacker spaces.
[35:59.180 --> 36:01.080]  I think hacker was a part of the terminology.
[36:01.240 --> 36:02.140]  Hacker was a part of the goal.
[36:02.480 --> 36:07.120]  And it's been interesting over the last four years to watch the hacker get dialed down and the maker get dialed up.
[36:07.820 --> 36:09.860]  And I think there's good and bad in that.
[36:10.200 --> 36:12.120]  And I could, you know, go on for a long time.
[36:12.200 --> 36:19.400]  But I do think that that's... I think every year I see that the hacker component of that turn down a little bit and the maker component of that turn up a little bit.
[36:21.140 --> 36:33.720]  3D printing, I think... I actually think 3D printing is going to get interesting in the next four years, especially for people that make money from, like, lawyers and stuff, because I really think that... So, you know, there's the old saying, you know,
[36:33.820 --> 36:36.960]  what, first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, and then you win.
[36:37.160 --> 36:39.380]  I think there's somewhere between ignoring and laughing at.
[36:40.320 --> 36:45.100]  And I think the fight is going to be couched largely in legal terminology.
[36:45.560 --> 36:48.760]  I think a lot of places are going to go digging through patent pools and trying to push this out.
[36:48.760 --> 36:50.400]  And I think it's going to slow down innovation.
[36:51.280 --> 36:57.020]  I worry a little bit about a lot of the new 3D printer companies are going to see the legal game and want to play it, or have to play it.
[36:57.180 --> 37:02.640]  Be fortunate in the position where if they don't get into patents, if they don't deal with that, they're going to need to.
[37:02.780 --> 37:03.980]  And I think that's kind of unfortunate.
[37:04.180 --> 37:10.960]  I think that a lot of the innovation happens when you can move as quickly as possible and you don't stop the engineers to check with the lawyers every now and then.
[37:11.220 --> 37:12.780]  But I just think it's a necessity.
[37:12.940 --> 37:14.280]  So I think 3D printing will do that.
[37:16.740 --> 37:18.400]  Yeah, I think there's going to be feature phishing.
[37:18.540 --> 37:25.660]  I think people are going to go out and they're going to set out patents that are going to say, okay, we're going to build these features in the next couple years, and we need to protect it.
[37:25.880 --> 37:32.740]  And I think this happens in all kinds of industries, and I just think that's going to be a side effect of 3D printing growing, is that it's going to happen.
[37:33.180 --> 37:35.260]  Companies are going to have to do that to keep surviving.
[37:36.380 --> 37:37.220]  And it's part of it.
[37:37.720 --> 37:40.520]  And I do think in 4 years, we're still going to be looking for the killer app.
[37:40.820 --> 37:44.660]  Like there's a big discussion of like, we need to get that thing that proves this is something you need in your garage.
[37:44.780 --> 37:55.500]  We need to have something that says, this is why you're going to brag about this at the barbecue and your neighbor Ted is going to be like, oh, dude, I got to get one of those because the Andersons have one.
[37:55.560 --> 37:56.160]  I have to have one too.
[37:56.700 --> 37:58.160]  I don't think we figured that out.
[37:58.260 --> 38:01.060]  And I think, I don't think we'll have figured it out in 4 years.
[38:02.480 --> 38:09.840]  I do think that the open-source and open hardware mindset from hackerspaces and things, I think that's continuing to spread.
[38:10.260 --> 38:12.360]  And, you know, I don't know.
[38:12.420 --> 38:13.420]  I think it's going to be a lot like Linux.
[38:13.540 --> 38:16.640]  I think there's going to be a lot of community support.
[38:16.640 --> 38:20.000]  I think there's going to be a few successful companies that are doing this.
[38:20.000 --> 38:26.220]  And I think, you know, it's going to be this really interesting mix of culture that is a broad culture with a lot of variance.
[38:26.280 --> 38:34.600]  And then a couple of high points of, you know, of sort of key or sort of, I don't know, notable high points.
[38:35.100 --> 38:37.220]  I think maker culture is also going to continue to bloom.
[38:37.360 --> 38:43.960]  I think the general DIY hands-on just, it's not exploding like it did two or three years ago, but I do think it's going to keep growing.
[38:44.800 --> 38:47.660]  And again, a lot like Linux, I think it's going to be a very community-driven culture.
[38:48.820 --> 38:59.560]  I think that the number of conventions, the number of events like HOPE, Maker Faire, Tour Camp, you know, all of, you know, Tour Camp alone, like a lot of these things, they came into existence in the last few years.
[38:59.560 --> 39:02.540]  And I think we're going to see more of those showing up.
[39:02.980 --> 39:07.140]  And I think it's just going to be a slow growth of more access ability for how to do things.
[39:07.840 --> 39:09.400]  I think electronics will still be hard.
[39:09.640 --> 39:19.640]  I think that we haven't found that magic auto route button that just makes it easier to make a 555 timer work without memorizing things and looking up vehicles IR doing all that.
[39:20.200 --> 39:21.920]  And, I think it will still be hard.
[39:22.060 --> 39:29.460]  I think that as, I think there are people working on that very hard, but I think that there's a lot to automate to make that easy and understandable.
[39:30.400 --> 39:35.680]  And so that's my guess at where we might be in another two hopes, if the Hotel Pennsylvania is still standing.
[39:36.120 --> 39:38.840]  If they tear it down, then I'll be on the sidewalk in four years.
[39:39.020 --> 39:39.740]  You can come out.
[39:40.160 --> 39:41.380]  I'll have a little change bucket.
[39:42.140 --> 39:43.800]  I'll have my slides on big postcards.
[39:44.060 --> 39:44.660]  It'll be great.
[39:46.740 --> 39:48.140]  Okay, so that's all for me.
[39:49.280 --> 39:58.420]  I had a larger time slot than I actually thought, so that leaves us plenty of time for question and answers, for rants, for better ideas, and for just general feedback.
[39:59.060 --> 40:00.680]  So, yeah, awesome.
[40:01.600 --> 40:02.540]  Question for you.
[40:06.690 --> 40:15.530]  You talked a lot about the 3D printing and the open-source parts that people are going to be able to, you know, download and then make.
[40:15.830 --> 40:26.270]  But what about the reverse engineering aspects and how do you feel like things like laser scanners and other things that capture, you know, fit into this whole thing?
[40:27.430 --> 40:28.690]  I think that's a really great point.
[40:28.770 --> 40:31.610]  I think that, so I think laser scanners are really awesome.
[40:31.750 --> 40:34.150]  There's a lot of work being done on them this year.
[40:34.510 --> 40:39.530]  And I think last year, last year was sort of the start of the ramp up, ever being like, okay, I can finally print reliably.
[40:39.910 --> 40:41.790]  Now I want to be able to import reliably.
[40:42.410 --> 40:44.590]  And that's being worked on really, really furiously.
[40:46.750 --> 40:49.850]  I think that's, I don't know, I think it's interesting.
[40:49.970 --> 40:55.770]  I do, I don't think laser scanners are prepped to have the same very open-source trajectory that 3D printing is done.
[40:56.090 --> 40:58.750]  But I do think they're prepped to have, like, an open-source component.
[40:58.950 --> 41:04.470]  I think if you look out there right now, I can think about, like, seven or eight laser scanning projects.
[41:04.470 --> 41:07.390]  And only, like, three are open-source driven.
[41:07.630 --> 41:08.910]  Most of the rest are commercial driven.
[41:09.070 --> 41:11.070]  Some driven by, I'm going to sell you a license.
[41:11.250 --> 41:13.190]  Some driven by, like, oh, here's a 99 cent app.
[41:13.610 --> 41:15.310]  And, you know, a lot of them are driven by hardware.
[41:15.450 --> 41:18.590]  They have, like, kind of built in the 90s, overly complex hardware.
[41:19.030 --> 41:22.250]  And they've been selling it for $15,000 in the 90s.
[41:22.290 --> 41:24.890]  And they're going to keep trying to sell it for $15,000 until it goes out.
[41:26.150 --> 41:30.270]  I also think that scanning is, is, I don't know, that's a good question.
[41:30.350 --> 41:31.970]  I think scanning is going to be hard for a few more years.
[41:32.110 --> 41:32.890]  I think somebody will figure it out.
[41:32.990 --> 41:35.050]  But I think for now, scanning is cool.
[41:35.190 --> 41:39.330]  But I think to get a really reliable model still takes some manual management.
[41:39.610 --> 41:41.330]  And I think that's going to turn a lot of people off.
[41:41.650 --> 41:46.550]  So I think the idea of, like, a replicator where a home user can, like, scan something and make a backup copy of it.
[41:46.710 --> 41:48.370]  Or, like, oh, dude, I broke my oven.
[41:48.490 --> 41:49.150]  I'm going to put it here.
[41:49.210 --> 41:49.850]  I'm going to scan it.
[41:50.210 --> 41:51.990]  And then I'll just cut and paste it together and it'll print.
[41:52.190 --> 41:54.150]  I think that's going to be more than four years away.
[41:54.610 --> 41:57.170]  But if I'm wrong, it would be awesome to be wrong on that one.
[42:01.210 --> 42:09.810]  Three times you mentioned concern, or twice you mentioned concerns with patent, copyright, or trademark disputes impeding people trying to make shit.
[42:10.030 --> 42:11.270]  Has that actually happened?
[42:11.390 --> 42:13.350]  Or is this just a hypothetical concern?
[42:15.390 --> 42:26.270]  I've heard many cases of people in the open-source 3D printing community getting letters that politely say, you do realize that these five patents belong to us and these five things you should be aware of.
[42:26.790 --> 42:34.550]  And I am not aware of any lawsuits, but I'm aware of several, like, lawyer to lawyer letters that, you know, that say, hey, just be careful.
[42:34.690 --> 42:35.290]  Here are our toes.
[42:35.490 --> 42:36.350]  Don't step on them.
[42:36.530 --> 42:41.550]  Well, there's a difference between here's our toes and cease and desist.
[42:41.550 --> 42:42.170]  Exactly.
[42:42.510 --> 42:42.590]  Yep.
[42:42.910 --> 42:42.970]  Yeah.
[42:43.270 --> 42:52.690]  And I think one of the things is, you know, luckily, our patent system isn't gone as crazy as maybe our copyright system or because, you know, there are a lot of the patents are out of date.
[42:52.830 --> 42:55.650]  A lot of the patents that are protecting things now are like add-on patents.
[42:55.910 --> 42:58.110]  The core technology is now accessible.
[42:58.270 --> 43:00.170]  The core technology is now open for the people to build.
[43:00.310 --> 43:03.170]  And that's the whole thing that allowed RepRap to thrive.
[43:04.430 --> 43:10.050]  So I think, I think a lot of that is, yeah, I think a lot of that is not going to totally stop innovation.
[43:10.050 --> 43:13.210]  I think because the core I do think it will slow things down.
[43:13.370 --> 43:21.610]  As a developer, I can't tell you the number of times where I have had a design, I draw it on the whiteboard, I'm building this and it will do this, and then you press this button.
[43:22.750 --> 43:26.530]  The legal guys at our stand-up scrum, they're like, oh, I'm building this.
[43:26.770 --> 43:28.490]  Email me a copy, so email me a copy.
[43:28.950 --> 43:31.610]  And the next day he's like, oh, you can't press the button once.
[43:31.990 --> 43:33.070]  You can press the button twice.
[43:33.490 --> 43:35.430]  Or maybe you can slide to unlock.
[43:35.650 --> 43:39.610]  But you can't press the button once because somebody has a patent on XYZ happens and then you press a button.
[43:40.370 --> 43:42.670]  And it's insane.
[43:43.210 --> 43:44.250]  So then what happens?
[43:44.350 --> 43:50.230]  Instead of building this really clean, cool idea, I sit down and I spend two hours like, all right, well, okay, what if I tap to unlock?
[43:50.330 --> 43:51.350]  No, that would be kind of silly.
[43:51.610 --> 43:57.270]  What if I make a Nyan cat and you have to watch the Nyan cat for 30 seconds and then tap?
[43:57.390 --> 43:57.970]  Is that legal?
[43:59.690 --> 44:07.650]  And it just, it totally, it just sucks developer's time and innovator's time to play Frogger that way.
[44:07.770 --> 44:08.790]  Like, oh, here comes the lawsuit.
[44:09.070 --> 44:10.390]  Oh, no, here comes another one.
[44:10.570 --> 44:14.910]  And avoid all those feature details that people have sort of set into their belly.
[44:16.090 --> 44:17.630]  I have a short, happy rant.
[44:17.690 --> 44:23.770]  I mostly agree with what you were saying about where you think that the future of makerspaces and hackerspaces is going.
[44:23.950 --> 44:25.670]  But I hope that you missed one thing.
[44:25.830 --> 44:35.090]  I hope that the hackerspace model can influence education and start to bring in, like, project-based learning into the formal education system.
[44:36.470 --> 44:41.570]  Yeah, I kind of worry that our education system is... so there's an interesting thing.
[44:41.650 --> 44:43.290]  I was talking to somebody I know in France the other day.
[44:43.450 --> 44:46.870]  Their education system is literally the federal government down.
[44:47.230 --> 44:56.350]  Like, if you have a meeting with the head of France's, according to him, if you have a meeting with the head of France's, like, Minister of Education, that will set policy for every single school in the country.
[44:56.730 --> 44:57.850]  So I think the U.S.
[44:57.950 --> 45:04.690]  has the advantage in that we're still, we do have a lot of federal involvement and big picture, like, they kind of don't get the local situation.
[45:04.970 --> 45:11.910]  But I think we have enough local school districts, I think we have enough local control that we can be more flexible.
[45:12.090 --> 45:13.390]  So, I don't know.
[45:13.710 --> 45:18.710]  I don't think it's a super happy picture, but I think we have a chance to do that because we still maintain a lot of that local control.
[45:20.070 --> 45:22.910]  And I think there's a lot of people just looking outside the education system.
[45:23.010 --> 45:29.410]  There's a lot of people talking right now about there's a degree, there's sort of the degree bubble, where everybody's like, oh, I've got to get a four-year degree to do anything at all.
[45:29.530 --> 45:30.570]  You know, I want to flip fries.
[45:30.570 --> 45:32.690]  I've got to get the fry management degree.
[45:33.570 --> 45:37.810]  And I think, I hope in the next four years that becomes pretty obvious that, like, we don't do that.
[45:38.650 --> 45:40.650]  To put on my, like, MakerBot hat for a second.
[45:41.470 --> 45:47.810]  MakerBot's done something I think is really cool, which is tried to make sure we can bring people on that don't have that degree and then teach them on the job.
[45:48.350 --> 45:53.030]  We have one guy who's an awesome, he's a, he got out of high school and he was like, I don't know what I want to do.
[45:53.210 --> 45:54.770]  And he said, come work for us for two years.
[45:54.970 --> 45:55.690]  Like, we'll help you.
[45:55.690 --> 45:56.570]  We'll help you figure out the paperwork.
[45:56.690 --> 45:57.550]  Come work for us for two years.
[45:57.650 --> 46:02.330]  And then when you've worked in engineering for a little while, then go back to college because then you'll really know to do it or not.
[46:02.770 --> 46:06.470]  And I think that apprenticeship model is coming back into style.
[46:06.590 --> 46:10.950]  And I think that that's going to get a lot of people who, by the time they get to college, they'll know what they'll want.
[46:11.250 --> 46:13.250]  Rather than just, like, flailing around and trying something.
[46:14.790 --> 46:18.430]  So, you talked about hackerspaces becoming more of makerspaces.
[46:18.570 --> 46:20.150]  And you said it with kind of a negative tone.
[46:20.770 --> 46:23.170]  I'd love to hear why you think that is the case.
[46:23.510 --> 46:24.750]  I don't think it's a negative tone.
[46:24.990 --> 46:26.510]  I think this is a hacker conference.
[46:26.930 --> 46:35.250]  And I think to talk about, to talk about building a project, I don't care what it is, as long as you're not hurting someone, has sort of been a hacker mentality.
[46:35.490 --> 46:40.230]  To be like, this is gray hat, this gets a little sketchy, but I'm going to do it anyway because it's interesting, I think, is the hacker mentality.
[46:40.510 --> 46:43.190]  I think the maker mentality is more of like, okay, we need accessibility.
[46:43.530 --> 46:45.110]  Like, we need understandability for this.
[46:45.510 --> 46:56.370]  And the maker model is more of like, okay, you know, You need to build your cool awesome thing, but then you need to also document it well and post it online and care about not that you found those eight other people in the U.S.
[46:56.450 --> 47:01.970]  that understand this project and can feed you back, but care about like how many hits that I get from getting this posted to make Zane.
[47:02.410 --> 47:03.250]  And I think it's cool.
[47:03.410 --> 47:04.970]  I frankly think both models are interesting.
[47:05.970 --> 47:09.330]  I just think it's a shift from one style to a different style.
[47:12.290 --> 47:19.970]  So, in this whole 3D printing world, the biggest name that's like kind of paid attention to it is Autodesk.
[47:20.230 --> 47:27.230]  And they're like trying to make tools that are really accessible and really easy to use for consumer market.
[47:27.450 --> 47:40.330]  How do you feel that like this large company kind of encroaching on the hacker, maker, 3D printing world is going to affect the open-source forwarding?
[47:42.050 --> 47:44.050]  So, I actually think it's the opposite way around.
[47:44.130 --> 47:45.730]  I think we're encroaching into their world.
[47:46.130 --> 47:46.890]  Yeah, of course.
[47:47.110 --> 47:48.130]  That's why they're coming back.
[47:48.330 --> 47:48.750]  Yeah, exactly.
[47:48.970 --> 47:53.230]  I think it's going to be interesting to see how they defend what they thought was their territory.
[47:54.890 --> 47:56.790]  And I don't know.
[47:59.210 --> 48:00.410]  You know, I'm not an idealist.
[48:00.510 --> 48:03.450]  I'm not going to say that open-source programs are perfect and fantastic.
[48:03.470 --> 48:04.950]  I'm not going to say that's the right thing to do.
[48:05.490 --> 48:14.750]  I do think that, especially in software, you can accumulate the advantage of open-source and in a way that, you know, you don't have to pay as many salaries.
[48:14.910 --> 48:16.050]  You don't have to pay as much for open-source.
[48:16.190 --> 48:19.370]  Open-source can slowly creep into an area and it doesn't have to win it.
[48:19.490 --> 48:24.290]  It just has to have enough competition to drive innovation, you know, drive new ideas.
[48:24.970 --> 48:26.010]  I guess let me put it another way.
[48:26.010 --> 48:30.210]  I'm not into open-source because, like, oh, open-source wins OMGs, whatever.
[48:30.590 --> 48:35.930]  I'm into open-source because I see what things like Mozilla has done, getting the browser wars kicked back off, getting new browser features.
[48:36.470 --> 48:40.630]  I mean, like, Mozilla Corporation came out of nowhere, took a market that was a pseudo-monopoly.
[48:40.890 --> 48:48.670]  And, like, just by being there and doing something and trying, brought the barrier of accessibility, brought the barrier of features, like, made everything better.
[48:48.950 --> 48:51.170]  Just by saying, like, oh, yeah, here's a competition.
[48:51.410 --> 48:52.090]  They're crazy.
[48:52.330 --> 48:54.010]  They're going to keep working on this whether they win or not.
[48:54.410 --> 48:59.050]  So I think that... I don't think Autodesk or those companies are going to go away.
[48:59.210 --> 49:00.290]  I think they're going to become more accessible.
[49:00.570 --> 49:06.890]  And I think now that they're going to have some more interesting competition, it'll force them to be more fit in a lot of ways.
[49:07.510 --> 49:09.490]  I sort of see it as a giant dinosaur ecosystem.
[49:09.830 --> 49:12.530]  You have, like, Autodesk with a big, you know, big thing.
[49:12.690 --> 49:16.030]  And then you have, like, these little Velociraptor open-source, like, 3D printing companies.
[49:16.490 --> 49:20.990]  You have an OpenSCAD over here and it's, like, a little triceratops that's got this big frill and looks kind of cool.
[49:20.990 --> 49:24.410]  But it's, you know, it's mostly just a big, giant, awesome frill.
[49:24.650 --> 49:27.070]  Because OpenSCAD, you can make giant, cool frills like that.
[49:27.590 --> 49:29.790]  So anyway, so, you know, it's an ecosystem.
[49:29.990 --> 49:32.870]  And by having the different players, you end up making everything run better.
[49:35.700 --> 49:36.140]  Hi.
[49:36.300 --> 49:38.300]  Sort of related to the previous question.
[49:38.780 --> 49:42.440]  You mentioned a lot of software as in milling software or managing software.
[49:42.440 --> 49:46.520]  But where do you think we are in terms of CAD and drafting software?
[49:46.780 --> 49:52.340]  Like, what's, like, the most hopeful project in that respect?
[49:52.760 --> 49:58.720]  For me, the most hopeful project is OpenSCAD and trying to get people to, like, build plugins and extend that.
[49:59.800 --> 50:02.760]  You know, Blender is awesome and Blender does a fantastic job.
[50:02.760 --> 50:08.000]  But they're really more focused on the visual and the, you know, making models for movies and stuff.
[50:08.000 --> 50:09.640]  I think there's a good shot at that.
[50:09.780 --> 50:16.100]  I think OpenSCAD is really good at actually designing that part you want to print and getting it accurate enough that it's really usable.
[50:17.660 --> 50:22.820]  And like the gentleman was saying, I think that there's also commercial software is going to start making that interface a lot easier.
[50:24.580 --> 50:33.680]  But, yeah, so I think OpenSCAD and Blender are the two that I think are going to be software, software utilities that, you know, will make that more accessible and easier to use.
[50:40.270 --> 50:43.230]  I got a rant that hopefully will lead to a question here.
[50:44.550 --> 50:49.250]  I wrote my first Fortran at, you know, 17 in 1971 or whatever.
[50:49.830 --> 50:51.190]  Been slinging code ever since.
[50:51.350 --> 50:56.890]  And what the big disappointment to me has been how few tools we build for ourselves.
[50:57.330 --> 51:02.210]  I mean, gee, in 30 or 40 years of software development, we have compilers now and linking loaders.
[51:02.350 --> 51:05.850]  And, wow, we've gone all the way to Eclipse and better debuggers and so forth.
[51:05.850 --> 51:07.090]  But it's stalled there.
[51:07.410 --> 51:10.270]  And what we end up building are software for other people.
[51:10.410 --> 51:11.770]  I mean, I'm watching people on cell phones.
[51:11.770 --> 51:13.530]  And there's millions and millions of applications.
[51:13.910 --> 51:16.370]  But developers don't build things for other developers.
[51:16.630 --> 51:21.590]  And part of that is because nobody ever made any money in the software world building toolkits.
[51:21.750 --> 51:22.690]  You know, Borla and all that's gone.
[51:23.350 --> 51:27.550]  And I think that's why this has taken so long, to answer your question.
[51:27.550 --> 51:30.330]  But I also think that it's a reason it's exploding.
[51:30.550 --> 51:36.590]  Because hackerspaces, 3D printers and all, these are tools that people can use to go build things.
[51:36.710 --> 51:39.630]  And there's a need for people and a desire to go build things.
[51:40.410 --> 51:41.910]  Build, keep building tools.
[51:42.190 --> 51:42.690]  Cool, man.
[51:43.350 --> 51:44.530]  Not the commercial printers.
[51:46.330 --> 51:47.890]  Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
[51:47.990 --> 51:49.670]  And I, wow, where did everybody come from?
[51:50.330 --> 51:51.750]  This room was empty when it started.
[51:53.210 --> 51:57.530]  Yeah, I think that, yeah, I think that that is a great point.
[51:57.650 --> 52:00.030]  And I think that that's one of the reasons we're going to be able to ramp up.
[52:01.490 --> 52:01.810]  Cool.
[52:01.950 --> 52:06.190]  Anybody else want to go to the mic and tell me anything?
[52:06.810 --> 52:07.130]  Questions?
[52:07.910 --> 52:08.230]  Answers?
[52:09.670 --> 52:09.990]  Cool.
[52:10.790 --> 52:11.850]  All right, I'm going to get out of here.
[52:12.170 --> 52:13.930]  Thanks for putting up with me, standing up here ranting.
[52:14.370 --> 52:15.190]  I have cookies.
[52:15.310 --> 52:16.690]  If anyone wants a cookie, come up and get one.
[52:17.510 --> 52:19.170]  It'll get your blood sugar back up.
[52:24.180 --> 52:26.840]  There, hand up, um...
[52:37.100 --> 52:38.440]  Wait, are you holding it up?
[52:38.720 --> 52:38.760]  All right.
[52:39.060 --> 52:39.100]  All right.
[52:39.100 --> 52:39.120]  Thank you.