[00:00.830 --> 00:01.890]  All right.
[00:02.030 --> 00:02.770]  So, hey, everybody.
[00:03.130 --> 00:04.390]  Thanks for joining us.
[00:04.510 --> 00:07.610]  This is going to be the most exciting talk today.
[00:07.830 --> 00:09.950]  So, you chose... well, yeah.
[00:12.950 --> 00:14.350]  And I'm Laura.
[00:14.790 --> 00:16.590]  We're going to introduce ourselves next.
[00:16.870 --> 00:18.410]  So, I'm Laura.
[00:18.690 --> 00:21.270]  I'm a designer and author who researches tech ethics.
[00:21.630 --> 00:24.310]  I just finished my fourth book, Future of Hacking.
[00:24.570 --> 00:31.450]  And I do a lot of different research on tech ethics topics, cybersecurity awareness, AI invention.
[00:31.670 --> 00:35.830]  And more recently, I've been researching scam compounds in Southeast Asia.
[00:36.590 --> 00:43.150]  And, yeah, I do a good deal of presentations since I work as a director and lecturer at Columbia University.
[00:43.250 --> 00:45.350]  And I work very closely with Josefina.
[00:45.610 --> 00:46.710]  And, hey, everyone.
[00:46.790 --> 00:49.390]  This is Josefina's very first conference presentation.
[00:49.750 --> 00:50.590]  So, yeah.
[00:51.390 --> 00:52.410]  Bear with me.
[00:53.870 --> 00:56.370]  So, you want to go ahead and introduce yourself?
[00:56.650 --> 00:58.190]  I am Josefina.
[00:58.490 --> 00:59.190]  I'm from Chile.
[00:59.190 --> 01:04.310]  I'm a journalist, communication specialist, and now policy specialist, hopefully.
[01:04.490 --> 01:07.090]  I'm doing my MIA at Columbia University where I met Laura.
[01:07.610 --> 01:11.210]  And I'm currently working at the UN Office of Digital and Emerging Technologies.
[01:11.790 --> 01:12.350]  Excellent.
[01:12.630 --> 01:13.910]  So, let's see first.
[01:14.030 --> 01:15.730]  So, why are we doing this?
[01:15.870 --> 01:23.090]  So, this woman is very much a part of our research because she's not real.
[01:23.850 --> 01:29.310]  She's generative AI and, you know, deep fakes and audio are quickly becoming more realistic.
[01:30.010 --> 01:41.570]  And so, when we think about today's older adults, they are faced with not only cyber threats, AI threats, but also, soon, you know, quantum threats as well.
[01:41.850 --> 01:44.230]  So, there's a lot to be worried about these days.
[01:44.230 --> 01:51.710]  And so, while I was working on research for my new book for the last three years, I interviewed a lot of people.
[01:51.750 --> 01:57.930]  And one of the gaps that came up was the gap to really help the everyday victim.
[01:57.930 --> 02:01.090]  And we'll get more into everyday victim and some of the policies.
[02:02.010 --> 02:06.190]  My book included a lot of different study participants and experts.
[02:06.650 --> 02:19.130]  Everything from people working in federal government, you know, different types of organizations, to podcasts, museums, you know, Yes We Hack, FINRA.
[02:19.410 --> 02:20.970]  So, lots of different people.
[02:21.310 --> 02:23.250]  And I think that was a common thread.
[02:23.250 --> 02:32.890]  A lot of times, we would just come back to the issue of, you know, how do you help people who are having, like, just everyday problems and really need support?
[02:33.110 --> 02:33.230]  Yeah.
[02:33.570 --> 02:40.010]  And Professor Sherling's book is actually interwoven into our project Cybercare Institute.
[02:40.250 --> 02:43.770]  Because basically, at its core, the book centers around people.
[02:43.970 --> 02:46.870]  Not only victims, but also ethical hackers.
[02:47.150 --> 02:50.450]  Everyone who's worked to make the cyberspace safer.
[02:50.450 --> 02:59.650]  And our mission, I am Cybercare Institute, is to make cybersecurity information public.
[02:59.990 --> 03:01.890]  And to extend it to the broader community.
[03:02.850 --> 03:13.450]  So, the people and organizations that are directly quoted in this presentation have either signed a release form or consented to participate in the service we run.
[03:13.450 --> 03:22.750]  And our research limitation, first, is the policies are mainly centered in North America.
[03:23.090 --> 03:30.210]  And for our community programming and the extent of Cybercare Institute is based mainly in New York City.
[03:30.510 --> 03:32.910]  And so that leads us to the research question.
[03:32.910 --> 03:42.130]  How do we better care for older adults and vulnerable populations by improving cybersecurity awareness training and policy really keeping their needs in mind?
[03:42.530 --> 03:48.530]  When we think of the older adult group, we are thinking of people generally who are around at least 60 years of age.
[03:48.910 --> 03:58.490]  And vulnerable people are those living with disabilities, health conditions, also maybe low income or disadvantaged, or any sort of mix of what's here.
[03:58.650 --> 04:06.750]  But as a research boundary, we are thinking less about some of the more elite victims, nation-state, political.
[04:06.750 --> 04:11.450]  So, you know, we are definitely thinking about someone in your neighborhood.
[04:12.050 --> 04:16.670]  Which leads us to this awareness and policy gap that we'd like to address first.
[04:17.690 --> 04:21.070]  Stories like Barry heightens have become pretty standard.
[04:21.830 --> 04:27.170]  We'll look at a little bit of data here that you might already be familiar with, but these are pretty new reports.
[04:27.410 --> 04:30.870]  So this is the July 2025 report from Pew.
[04:30.870 --> 04:32.990]  So right now, where are we at?
[04:33.190 --> 04:36.950]  73% of U.S. adults report experiencing a scam.
[04:37.670 --> 04:39.790]  79% view this is a problem.
[04:40.010 --> 04:48.330]  And 74% have not reported it to law enforcement, which is consistent of what we see when we run our workshops and we meet with people.
[04:49.310 --> 04:57.610]  Most people do view that if you are 65 or older, there's a good chance that you might be more likely to fall victim to a scam.
[04:58.030 --> 05:07.010]  Of course, though, we know that there are other factors at play, such as the fact that, you know, as you age, you also might become, you know, more stable.
[05:07.430 --> 05:08.850]  And, you know, you have more income.
[05:09.090 --> 05:13.190]  So it isn't just about really, you know, maybe not having all the knowledge.
[05:13.210 --> 05:15.910]  Although, we do need to have more knowledge sharing.
[05:16.650 --> 05:25.210]  2023, 2024, in terms of FBI statistics, those losses for 2023 are about $3.4 billion.
[05:26.390 --> 05:33.830]  Average loss, although, you know, of course, this doesn't take into account, you know, different medians and so forth, but 33,000.
[05:35.090 --> 05:45.470]  And this is actually the way that the FBI organizes their data sets is ages 20 to 59 and then 60 and above.
[05:45.790 --> 05:49.470]  So this is just like a small aggregate of the two data sets.
[05:49.570 --> 05:54.970]  And so we see a lot of information that might be consistent with what you suspect anyways.
[05:54.970 --> 06:04.110]  We continue to see a lot of crimes in social engineering, confidence, identity theft, tech support, government impersonation.
[06:04.390 --> 06:09.790]  So pretty consistent in terms of numbers and what we might suspect.
[06:10.390 --> 06:15.250]  Let's see any sort of like anomalies or interesting numbers that really pop here.
[06:15.930 --> 06:19.410]  I mean, tech support scams continue to be very high.
[06:19.410 --> 06:31.690]  So we see 17,696 here, although you'll see investment scams across the board, even in the 20 to 29 through the 60 plus category is also fairly high.
[06:32.570 --> 06:51.230]  But among groups who were surveyed in 2023, only about 11% found themselves to be really knowledgeable in the group that we're working with, where the 18 to 29 group is 30% knowledgeable on cybersecurity and data privacy.
[06:52.250 --> 06:56.950]  Which these numbers to us still, you know, they fall short of what we would like to see.
[06:57.270 --> 06:59.330]  And as we know, the U.S.
[06:59.710 --> 07:05.570]  is a patchwork, but also when it comes to legislation and cybersecurity for elders.
[07:06.170 --> 07:11.010]  We, the states usually approach it in an independent way, but we're gonna do an overview.
[07:11.010 --> 07:14.750]  But before we do that, I have a question for the audience.
[07:15.690 --> 07:23.030]  So thinking about the mid 20th century, post World War II, what are the main things that were happening in the U.S.
[07:23.110 --> 07:24.470]  that impacted older adults?
[07:24.650 --> 07:25.470]  If any of you...
[07:26.730 --> 07:31.470]  We know you're all gonna line up to give an answer to this, but yeah, anyone wanna yell something out?
[07:31.850 --> 07:36.490]  So it's after World War II, you're an older adult, what are some things that are changing?
[07:39.600 --> 07:46.060]  Yep, so we have civil rights movement, social security, and other sorts of legislation changes.
[07:46.360 --> 07:50.840]  Improvements in transportation technology that make it possible to move from your hometown.
[07:51.320 --> 07:52.820]  Leaving the family farm.
[07:53.100 --> 07:57.200]  Obviously, there's a boom in terms of babies after World War II.
[07:57.540 --> 07:59.800]  People are also starting to live longer.
[07:59.800 --> 08:04.560]  By 1965, this was pretty progressive legislation.
[08:04.560 --> 08:07.380]  The Older Americans Act, or the OAA.
[08:07.800 --> 08:11.000]  They established the Administration on Aging.
[08:11.320 --> 08:18.340]  They established community services, nutrition programs, abuse detection, and prevention.
[08:18.880 --> 08:34.540]  And one thing that I was really impressed by was that they also, at the time, we're thinking about service provisions for caregivers and people with disabilities, where, you know, a lot of this has stalled over time, but that, you know, this was on the table a long time ago.
[08:34.780 --> 08:44.020]  But it really wasn't until the 1960s and 70s that elder law existed as a field, or really a descriptive term, or a recognized area of practice.
[08:44.020 --> 08:47.040]  And it continues to be stigmatized as welfare.
[08:47.040 --> 08:53.040]  Still, legislation for older adults is not thoroughly addressed as it should be.
[08:53.640 --> 08:56.320]  There have been, you know, legislation moves.
[08:56.360 --> 09:00.120]  So we have had the Elder Abuse and Prosecution Act.
[09:00.320 --> 09:02.160]  This also helped with data collection.
[09:02.660 --> 09:13.320]  Senior Safe Act, which can also help those professionals here in the room, especially if you're in finance, because this helped protect some of the professionals when they report financial exploitation.
[09:13.320 --> 09:25.980]  And Fraud and Scams Reduction Act also included definitions to include not only mail and telephone, Internet fraud, but thinking more specifically about older adults.
[09:26.540 --> 09:28.200]  Quiet is more recent.
[09:28.320 --> 09:29.000]  That's 2025.
[09:29.760 --> 09:36.000]  This really takes into account robocalls, AI-generated voices that are a widespread concern.
[09:36.000 --> 09:39.100]  This went to House February 5th, 2025.
[09:40.000 --> 09:44.660]  And in today's climate has bipartisan support among adults, older adults.
[09:45.620 --> 09:50.040]  AARP has been very active with lobbying for this.
[09:50.360 --> 09:58.860]  And so among their survey participants of about 1,888, 85% are really in favor of this act.
[09:59.380 --> 10:05.560]  And four in five, you know, are concerned about scammers using AI to create fake voices.
[10:06.900 --> 10:10.180]  So, you know, this would, of course, help to adjust this more aggressively.
[10:10.720 --> 10:17.620]  But again, I think keep in mind that, you know, in a lot of this legislation, you look at, you know, some might be about data collection.
[10:17.940 --> 10:27.160]  A lot of it doesn't necessarily, and you know, some might be about, you know, having more resources, but a lot of this is not necessarily on the ground education.
[10:27.920 --> 10:31.800]  This is also the case with stalled legislation like the Protecting Seniors Act.
[10:31.800 --> 10:44.800]  Yeah, the Protecting Seniors Act, basically what it does is it places responsibility for the FTC to inform, report, and increase awareness regarding scams that are targeting older adults.
[10:44.960 --> 10:49.560]  And then any unfinished business goes to the Committee of Science and Transportation.
[10:51.020 --> 11:03.400]  And then for, if we go to, for example, international legislation, we can see that there has been some very, very few efforts internationally.
[11:03.400 --> 11:19.080]  One that I want to highlight is the Estatuto do Idoso, the Brazil, which basically increases and criminalizes and increases penalties for people that commit fraud and that target specifically older adults.
[11:19.260 --> 11:34.120]  And then there has been some general national plans in Australia, in Japan as well, that have been tried to increase educational services, but not necessarily implemented in direct legislation.
[11:34.640 --> 11:53.380]  And for international agreements, one that I would like to highlight is the OAS Inter-American Convention on Protecting the Human Rights of Older Persons, which does address this in introducing ICT technologies, not specifically cyber security, but it has been adopted in the legislation of seven
[11:53.380 --> 11:55.020]  Latin American countries so far.
[11:55.020 --> 12:09.980]  So, if we go, if we analyze these cases, we see a clear cyber security law gap with very low cross-border enforcement.
[12:10.760 --> 12:17.200]  And even the legislation today is not necessarily adapted to the current technologies.
[12:19.360 --> 12:31.120]  So, there is a cyber security awareness education gap where the policies and statistics, the statistics keep increasing and impacting older adults in the U.S.
[12:31.200 --> 12:39.840]  and beyond, but the policies are not following up and there is an urgency for cyber security awareness right now that needs to be addressed.
[12:39.840 --> 12:43.900]  And this doesn't really only impact elderly people.
[12:44.520 --> 12:48.160]  Cyber security awareness and education audiences are everywhere.
[12:48.660 --> 12:49.980]  It's every single one of us.
[12:50.080 --> 12:54.140]  Workforce educators, youth, community members.
[12:54.560 --> 12:59.120]  But we are specifically in this presentation focusing on older adults and vulnerable populations.
[13:02.660 --> 13:18.960]  And we are defining public awareness here to design to... our efforts designed to increase the public understanding of threats and supporting the public and older adults in particular.
[13:18.960 --> 13:26.320]  And this education gap is often not integrated into our common understanding of community emergency management.
[13:27.080 --> 13:31.720]  Hurricanes, medical emergencies, workplace violence, power outages, drug use prevention.
[13:32.560 --> 13:35.940]  You know, we don't really have a mantra like stop, drop, and roll.
[13:35.940 --> 13:44.180]  So, and also too, there's a gap in terms of education strategies and that, you know, appear within communication strategies.
[13:44.400 --> 13:46.920]  And so, let's see if this plays.
[13:47.660 --> 13:51.100]  This is a pretty classic play.
[13:53.820 --> 13:55.420]  Okay, last time.
[13:55.640 --> 13:56.620]  This is drugs.
[13:58.260 --> 14:00.240]  This is your brain on drugs.
[14:03.060 --> 14:04.160]  Any questions?
[14:06.300 --> 14:10.460]  I just do not have a commercial like that for passwords, you know?
[14:11.500 --> 14:12.280]  Like...
[14:14.800 --> 14:17.300]  Match can be a deadly missile.
[14:17.580 --> 14:21.600]  Remember, only you can prevent forest fires.
[14:22.920 --> 14:27.460]  And so, we know awareness lacks the memorable public messaging that can shift perceptions.
[14:28.400 --> 14:31.300]  That really can help us change social norms.
[14:31.300 --> 14:34.260]  Only you can prevent wildfires.
[14:34.820 --> 14:36.580]  Although we're still fighting wildfires.
[14:36.800 --> 14:40.780]  It's the longest running public service announcement campaign in U.S.
[14:41.000 --> 14:41.160]  history.
[14:41.660 --> 14:42.340]  So...
[14:42.340 --> 14:49.220]  And we know also there are a lot of great resources to kind of enact these sorts of public preparedness changes.
[14:49.700 --> 14:52.720]  Change theory, nudging, tiny habits.
[14:52.720 --> 15:03.340]  You know, while of course all those sometimes sounds pretty theoretical, it's very much taken up by politicians and other people who integrate this in a very kind of effective way.
[15:03.840 --> 15:08.340]  And we want to do this to help people and not necessarily to, you know, manipulate people.
[15:08.560 --> 15:15.820]  But let's go... we're going to quickly go over a couple of the different... a couple of the different available resources out there.
[15:15.820 --> 15:20.860]  We define some of these resources as public being 100% free.
[15:21.380 --> 15:23.340]  Semi-public is free with limitations.
[15:23.640 --> 15:26.080]  Semi-private sliding scale or limited time basis.
[15:26.620 --> 15:28.660]  And private would be a paid service.
[15:29.600 --> 15:33.020]  So, ITRC is actually one of our preferred partners.
[15:33.300 --> 15:39.180]  So, when we teach classes to older adults, we send them to the Identity Theft Resource Center.
[15:39.180 --> 15:42.600]  They do a lot of hand-holding, which is great.
[15:42.940 --> 15:52.660]  So, they'll work with somebody who has come under some sort of attack or they've had identity theft or they've been a victim of some sort of issue from beginning to end.
[15:53.000 --> 15:56.120]  They use multi-channel communication to support people.
[15:56.320 --> 15:57.800]  They have frequent hours.
[15:57.900 --> 15:59.760]  And they've been doing this for a long time.
[15:59.760 --> 16:02.820]  So, we've been working with them pretty closely.
[16:03.680 --> 16:06.540]  Obviously, AARP has a hotline.
[16:07.100 --> 16:09.380]  And they have fraud specialists who are there to help.
[16:10.040 --> 16:15.560]  They've been really good about aggregating data to within their scam tracking map.
[16:15.740 --> 16:18.500]  So, I've tested their map a bunch of times.
[16:19.080 --> 16:22.720]  So, I'm not totally, like, accustomed with, like, every data set.
[16:22.860 --> 16:28.200]  But it does give you, like, a good overview of what's going on in the eyes of their community.
[16:28.200 --> 16:31.200]  And, you know, this is an important organization.
[16:31.360 --> 16:36.500]  So, in terms of, like, what's going on, FINRA has their securities helpline.
[16:37.120 --> 16:38.620]  I've met with them before, too.
[16:38.820 --> 16:43.980]  And they've been great about creating some different educational resources as well.
[16:45.700 --> 16:47.680]  You know, Report Fraud FTC.
[16:48.080 --> 16:51.220]  This is where it can get a little bit more confusing for people.
[16:51.220 --> 16:56.860]  Although, this portal, FBI, local, you know, police, I think a lot of times still, local DA.
[16:57.480 --> 17:02.040]  You know, this is where, when I'm working with students, when we're working with students.
[17:02.780 --> 17:04.520]  You know, we'll show you later.
[17:04.760 --> 17:09.320]  We will, of course, send them to emergency services if they're in any danger.
[17:09.600 --> 17:20.340]  But we actually do maintain Identity Theft Resource Center as one of our preferred partners, since they do start to finish hand-holding.
[17:20.340 --> 17:20.880]  So...
[17:20.880 --> 17:38.440]  Then, other public efforts aside of the U.S., the EU has recently implemented a CyberSafe Senior platform that basically introduces content, not only for students, but also for educators, and how to address and teach cyber security to seniors.
[17:38.900 --> 17:43.540]  Then, if we go to Africa, there's a few NGOs that have been working on the topic.
[17:44.100 --> 17:54.280]  Specifically, CyberSafe, which delivers content, not only in English, French, but also in Hausa, Igbo, Yoruba, Swahili, and Pigin.
[17:55.880 --> 17:58.540]  Sorry, I hope I got that right.
[17:59.160 --> 18:08.740]  And then, the National Council on Aging basically delivers reports and articles directly to your email.
[18:09.020 --> 18:13.920]  So, for elders that want to subscribe and get a few updated resources.
[18:13.920 --> 18:18.820]  And then, we go into semi-private.
[18:19.160 --> 18:36.500]  There's a few new apps that have been coming up that are mainly call blockers, SMS filters, fake video detection, et cetera, that are free, but then they have a paying scale if you want the premium version.
[18:36.500 --> 18:51.500]  And then, for paid resources, password managers are a resource that not only are popular among generally older adults, but also people in our classes ask about them, and they currently use them.
[18:51.560 --> 18:53.200]  So, we know that based on perspective.
[18:53.460 --> 18:53.680]  Yeah.
[18:53.780 --> 18:55.220]  So, we know people are using them.
[18:55.220 --> 18:56.940]  Which brings us to us.
[18:57.280 --> 19:03.920]  So, we start Cybercare Institute, and it's been great working with different communities.
[19:04.260 --> 19:05.880]  This is volunteer-led.
[19:06.340 --> 19:10.380]  And, as mentioned, you know, throughout, we're working with older adults.
[19:10.780 --> 19:20.440]  We use information that is cited from a lot of pretty popular sources, from NIST to FBI, you know, different FINRA, and so forth.
[19:20.440 --> 19:25.820]  So, and we make sure all those resources are available to everybody after the class.
[19:26.280 --> 19:31.620]  And so, we've had four different organization partners that we've taught with multiple times.
[19:32.240 --> 19:35.740]  We do data collection and look for data-driven results.
[19:36.440 --> 19:37.600]  Workshops are free.
[19:37.960 --> 19:43.680]  In fact, like, in terms of time, we actually tend to run out of time.
[19:44.440 --> 19:48.560]  But we've done different formats of, like, one hour, one and a half.
[19:48.840 --> 19:51.600]  But easily, these creep into about two-hour sessions.
[19:52.140 --> 19:56.520]  And we've had well over 100 students in a very small class environment.
[19:56.540 --> 19:59.020]  So, here are some of our students.
[20:00.080 --> 20:02.160]  These have been... they've been great to work with.
[20:02.300 --> 20:04.000]  I think, you know...
[20:04.000 --> 20:06.600]  And then, notes on the program design.
[20:07.180 --> 20:10.460]  We do offer it on Zoom if a person wants to do that.
[20:10.460 --> 20:13.600]  The course is free, and it's pretty low-budget to run.
[20:14.040 --> 20:15.300]  There is our time, of course.
[20:15.520 --> 20:17.180]  But this is something meaningful.
[20:18.100 --> 20:20.760]  We, as mentioned, are geared towards older adults.
[20:20.980 --> 20:23.680]  We have an optional survey that we say is required.
[20:23.680 --> 20:26.860]  But it seems like most people perceive this as being pretty optional.
[20:26.860 --> 20:28.160]  But we're working on that.
[20:28.960 --> 20:33.440]  And, you know, we know that a lot of people don't necessarily want to log into email.
[20:33.440 --> 20:35.780]  So, we have been bringing paper surveys.
[20:36.200 --> 20:38.660]  And we have been hand-coding them, which has been good.
[20:38.660 --> 20:46.880]  We've also been adding new modules for AI and also industrial control systems, which have been really popular and on-demand.
[20:47.040 --> 20:48.600]  We have a high attendance rate.
[20:49.340 --> 20:52.500]  Community members really want to mobilize around these emergencies.
[20:52.500 --> 20:54.000]  They want to help out.
[20:54.120 --> 20:55.920]  They want to understand attacks.
[20:56.140 --> 20:57.660]  They want to understand ICS.
[20:58.100 --> 21:03.560]  Many people have lived through emergencies, tragedies, war, and have already survived fraud.
[21:03.760 --> 21:07.300]  So, it's already built into their lived experiences.
[21:07.300 --> 21:11.220]  I also want to highlight that normally they ask for more time.
[21:11.380 --> 21:17.640]  Even though we have... we keep extending the time of our sessions, they ask, oh, can we stick around for ten minutes?
[21:17.640 --> 21:19.240]  I have more questions.
[21:19.260 --> 21:21.620]  Can we keep it going?
[21:21.620 --> 21:22.400]  Yeah.
[21:22.700 --> 21:33.780]  So, it's almost like we could probably do like a full day and then offer this, you know, do the cybersecurity basics, move into hygiene, create their plan.
[21:33.940 --> 21:36.340]  But then also we've added the AI module.
[21:36.600 --> 21:38.840]  I tested the ICS OT module.
[21:39.540 --> 21:44.320]  And then after that, you know, they want to do the session where they talk about their experiences.
[21:44.320 --> 21:47.240]  So, that brings us to a solid half day, actually.
[21:47.680 --> 21:49.820]  So, flexible curriculum.
[21:50.140 --> 21:51.300]  So, we have a core curriculum.
[21:51.600 --> 21:54.720]  Core plus AI safety and core plus ICS safety.
[21:55.160 --> 22:02.340]  So, you know, these have been, like, you know, flexible in the sense that when they have...
[22:02.340 --> 22:04.500]  They actually request...
[22:04.500 --> 22:10.680]  AI would do the most popular request, but, you know, they are fitting us into a schedule.
[22:11.380 --> 22:18.620]  And depending on, you know, some of the organizations we work with are really community organizations for independent older adults.
[22:18.680 --> 22:22.920]  But we have worked with a couple where we're competing with the bingo session.
[22:23.740 --> 22:28.180]  And, you know, so we have to make sure that we take that into account.
[22:28.560 --> 22:32.740]  So, we have to sometimes be a little bit more popular sections to talk about.
[22:33.120 --> 22:36.840]  Romance scams, pig butchering, and how to do a credit freeze.
[22:36.840 --> 22:41.460]  So, these are really popular topics that, you know, we end up on.
[22:42.160 --> 22:43.100]  Mention the curriculum.
[22:44.420 --> 22:45.840]  And then, also...
[22:46.440 --> 22:49.500]  I don't know if the audio will play here, but...
[22:49.500 --> 22:50.400]  Oh, no, maybe not.
[22:51.120 --> 22:57.720]  Also, we've started, you know, integrating generative AI, audio examples, images of deep fakes.
[22:58.360 --> 23:03.120]  And, you know, we'll kind of explain, you know, why this is like a kind of a key outcome.
[23:03.120 --> 23:05.260]  ICS has been really fascinating.
[23:05.640 --> 23:08.180]  So, I only just recently started testing this.
[23:08.300 --> 23:10.560]  And we'll do an ICS section this fall.
[23:10.820 --> 23:13.780]  But everyone cares about critical infrastructure.
[23:14.120 --> 23:18.980]  And people care about supply chains and different services and your water and, you know, your sewers.
[23:19.320 --> 23:23.020]  So, actually, people have a strong connection to ICS and OT.
[23:23.020 --> 23:27.560]  And, as compared with sometimes where AI takes a long time to talk about.
[23:28.340 --> 23:33.720]  You know, when I did, like, kind of a small test of, you know, ICS for some of the curriculum modules.
[23:34.140 --> 23:36.920]  Critical infrastructure gets, like, two thumbs up.
[23:37.160 --> 23:41.080]  So, a selection of some of these key learning outcomes.
[23:41.940 --> 23:42.200]  Yeah.
[23:42.420 --> 23:43.360]  So, if you'll start.
[23:43.920 --> 23:44.500]  It's very important.
[23:44.500 --> 23:46.740]  We all know cybersecurity around here.
[23:46.960 --> 23:50.600]  But, some of the things that are specifically targeted to older adults that we lean on.
[23:50.760 --> 23:53.520]  Is that the staying calm part.
[23:53.720 --> 23:57.380]  It takes a lot of our efforts to tell them to stop.
[23:57.540 --> 23:58.520]  To trust their God.
[23:58.760 --> 24:01.880]  To identify how are they feeling.
[24:02.040 --> 24:03.720]  How is this communication making them feel.
[24:03.820 --> 24:06.660]  If it's urging them time-wise to make a decision.
[24:06.880 --> 24:09.620]  If they cannot really stop and ask someone else.
[24:09.620 --> 24:13.240]  Because, they feel like their computers are going to shut down.
[24:13.420 --> 24:13.600]  Et cetera.
[24:13.940 --> 24:16.820]  So, there is a focus also.
[24:16.920 --> 24:20.720]  And, about the feeling of experiencing a cyber attack.
[24:22.380 --> 24:26.620]  Data management, of course, is, you know, obviously core to all this.
[24:26.840 --> 24:30.000]  But, just a couple of notes on what we talk about.
[24:30.280 --> 24:33.040]  We definitely talk about data minimization as a practice.
[24:33.400 --> 24:34.800]  Less is more in this world.
[24:35.020 --> 24:35.100]  Yes.
[24:36.020 --> 24:36.980]  Running updates.
[24:37.520 --> 24:38.400]  Backing up their data.
[24:38.400 --> 24:42.280]  And, then, we end up spending a lot of time on strong passwords.
[24:43.320 --> 24:43.760]  Passphrases.
[24:44.920 --> 24:48.600]  We sometimes play games where we think about, like, you know, passphrases.
[24:49.420 --> 24:54.020]  Like, only you know where you were, you know, on that date in that year.
[24:54.280 --> 24:59.120]  And, you know, so, this is a good gamified approach to thinking about that.
[24:59.660 --> 25:02.680]  But, that said, you know, there's a lot of shared trauma here.
[25:02.840 --> 25:03.940]  If you want to expand on that.
[25:04.220 --> 25:04.420]  Yeah.
[25:04.420 --> 25:10.060]  Well, we don't really consider it normally if you see main resources about how to protect yourself.
[25:10.300 --> 25:11.860]  But, getting hugged is traumatic.
[25:12.460 --> 25:17.320]  And, especially for people who feel like they're excluded from the digital world at certain times.
[25:17.340 --> 25:21.440]  Or, they feel like they have abilities and then they suffer scams.
[25:21.440 --> 25:23.280]  And, it's hard to talk about.
[25:24.200 --> 25:28.320]  So, many of our students have been able to talk about it.
[25:28.380 --> 25:33.720]  They feel like it's a safe space to explore those memorable or traumatic experiences with us.
[25:33.960 --> 25:34.160]  Yeah.
[25:34.640 --> 25:37.520]  And, you know, we're not licensed therapists.
[25:37.520 --> 25:40.400]  You know, I teach in tech policy.
[25:40.520 --> 25:42.320]  I do tech research and analytics.
[25:42.560 --> 25:46.920]  And, I think, like, you know, like, we're very well informed to offer this.
[25:47.080 --> 25:48.380]  Think about the policies.
[25:48.580 --> 25:49.520]  Think about what to do.
[25:49.720 --> 25:50.940]  How to create the curriculum.
[25:51.440 --> 25:54.080]  But, it also brings it to another level.
[25:54.640 --> 25:57.080]  And, some of my discussions with organizations, too.
[25:57.080 --> 25:57.940]  You know, there's...
[25:57.940 --> 25:58.360]  It's just...
[25:58.360 --> 26:00.220]  It's such an interesting problem.
[26:00.620 --> 26:01.580]  A sad problem, too.
[26:01.780 --> 26:04.360]  About, you know, where do we find the time to even...
[26:04.360 --> 26:05.640]  Or, you know, the time.
[26:06.100 --> 26:13.500]  The therapeutic practice that can additionally support people who, you know, might not really make that link.
[26:13.620 --> 26:21.000]  So, we try to make that link when we tell people, you know, that, you know, this is something you should speak to a professional about, so.
[26:22.000 --> 26:31.300]  Oh, and we also offer specific resources, leaning into the communication aspect and how to make it clear and memorable for them.
[26:31.560 --> 26:32.920]  We print flyers.
[26:33.220 --> 26:39.260]  We try to give it a one, two, three step-by-step basis of what to do when you get hacked.
[26:39.480 --> 26:58.580]  And, the interesting thing is that it's customizable, depending on their neighborhood, because we do offer information about where your local precinct is, how to go from where we're at, and general information about your community, like, relevant to the community.
[26:58.880 --> 26:59.240]  Yeah.
[26:59.520 --> 27:13.640]  I mean, we realized quickly, too, that, like, it's okay to pare this down to, like, the absolute basics and that, you know, people don't even really necessarily know, like, if they should call 911 or, you know, if they should be working with a caseworker or if they should just call the service
[27:13.640 --> 27:15.100]  provider and, like, talk it out.
[27:15.300 --> 27:21.780]  So, you know, so we go through these steps and kind of, meanwhile, talking about, like, yeah, don't panic, right?
[27:22.000 --> 27:25.900]  And we had mentioned we have this strong relationship with ITRC.
[27:26.640 --> 27:43.400]  So, you know, if they're not in immediate danger and they've already called their service provider or filed a report with their local precinct, then we do suggest, if they really need help for free at no cost to be working with a caseworker until they're absolutely,
[27:43.420 --> 27:45.100]  like, finished with what they need to do.
[27:45.440 --> 27:49.520]  For data collection, we also offer printed, as we said, printed surveys.
[27:49.740 --> 27:49.980]  Printed.
[27:50.360 --> 27:58.120]  Yeah, it's very important because if you do it online, we haven't gotten many responses as compared to the printed versions.
[27:58.120 --> 28:05.480]  And the comment... they have comments and additions to our research.
[28:05.880 --> 28:11.640]  So, if we look at the data we have so far from 100, the number that we have right now is 30.
[28:11.960 --> 28:12.960]  So, the option that...
[28:12.960 --> 28:15.380]  It's a very baby data set, but we'll analyze it anyway.
[28:15.620 --> 28:15.800]  Sorry.
[28:16.460 --> 28:21.920]  So, the average age of our classes is normally 77.5, 77.4.
[28:22.300 --> 28:25.560]  Four out of five students are usually female, which is very interesting.
[28:26.340 --> 28:31.040]  The knowledge average, they put 3.7 out of five.
[28:31.900 --> 28:36.960]  And then, after... this is the part they have to complete before.
[28:37.120 --> 28:46.660]  And then, after, once they're rating their awareness, 64.27 report feeling confident about their knowledge, but also how to apply it.
[28:46.780 --> 28:56.880]  And then, 20% report feeling more knowledgeable after this, but not necessarily sure on how to apply all of this information in their day-to-day lives.
[28:57.040 --> 28:57.460]  Right.
[28:57.660 --> 29:02.140]  And so, we are going to make some adjustments to the way that we collect data.
[29:02.340 --> 29:08.380]  Like, for example, we'll have a lot more just from using paper since we were doing digital at first.
[29:09.180 --> 29:15.120]  And also, we're going to maybe adjust, like, if we're using, like, a Likert scale or, like, how we're collecting data.
[29:15.620 --> 29:19.880]  We know that people kind of, like, have, like, central tendency biases and so forth.
[29:19.880 --> 29:22.060]  So, we're thinking about that.
[29:22.260 --> 29:24.620]  And then, there's always a non-response.
[29:24.840 --> 29:29.940]  So, in fact, like, we get a pretty good response with the paper because we, like, put it on their chair.
[29:30.080 --> 29:32.000]  And we're like, here, you have to fill this out.
[29:32.180 --> 29:33.800]  So, you know, this is all you...
[29:33.800 --> 29:34.400]  This is free.
[29:34.720 --> 29:36.420]  So, you know, just do that.
[29:36.760 --> 29:38.800]  So, but further researching.
[29:39.660 --> 29:46.400]  Obviously, we'll continue to collect data, continue to expand partnerships, add additional curricular modules.
[29:46.400 --> 29:48.560]  I'm really excited about ICSOT.
[29:49.200 --> 29:52.160]  And we're in the process of applying for some funding as well.
[29:53.060 --> 29:56.400]  Which leads us to some of the emergent research themes.
[29:56.600 --> 29:58.180]  We're actually doing really well on time.
[29:58.360 --> 29:58.520]  Yeah.
[29:58.720 --> 29:58.880]  Yeah.
[30:00.960 --> 30:03.220]  So, cybersecurity is a lingo problem.
[30:03.420 --> 30:05.060]  I think, you know, obviously, we know this.
[30:05.220 --> 30:19.580]  But, you know, we know this from particularly late, too, from, you know, working with these students that, although hacking is so incredibly common, and, you know, the data speaks for itself, lingo is hard for the average person.
[30:19.840 --> 30:24.000]  And demystifying cybersecurity is a good thing, not a bad thing.
[30:24.320 --> 30:24.600]  So...
[30:24.600 --> 30:31.180]  And also, it goes back to, if the lingo is too complicated, how do you talk amongst your community members?
[30:31.200 --> 30:32.720]  How do you explain it to a friend?
[30:32.720 --> 30:33.200]  So...
[30:33.200 --> 30:38.160]  How do you make the information as easy to understand that people want to talk about it with someone else?
[30:38.960 --> 30:39.400]  Absolutely.
[30:40.500 --> 30:40.940]  So...
[30:41.400 --> 30:41.840]  Silos.
[30:42.320 --> 30:43.860]  So, for example, like...
[30:44.580 --> 30:44.980]  There...
[30:44.980 --> 30:47.720]  And I just put critical infrastructure here as, like, a...
[30:47.720 --> 30:49.420]  As, like, a, you know, example.
[30:49.780 --> 30:56.260]  But, you know, you might have a silo between, you know, sort of different parts of cybersecurity.
[30:56.740 --> 30:57.960]  Or for, like, we're seeing...
[30:57.960 --> 31:01.720]  So, we bring together these modules, at least for the public.
[31:01.720 --> 31:05.460]  But, in general, we all experience different silos.
[31:05.700 --> 31:10.300]  So, how do we strive for community-integrated security excellence despite silos?
[31:10.620 --> 31:11.800]  And how to really leverage these?
[31:11.980 --> 31:15.620]  And kind of break down this mentality between some of these different areas.
[31:15.820 --> 31:19.840]  That it's okay to talk to someone about AI and then jump to ICS.
[31:19.940 --> 31:21.180]  And, you know, that's okay.
[31:21.820 --> 31:22.300]  So...
[31:22.300 --> 31:29.640]  And also, in terms of, like, actual physical silos, like, you know, is there a way that you can get involved with your local community?
[31:29.640 --> 31:30.260]  Yeah.
[31:30.480 --> 31:32.320]  And, you know, so this is important, too.
[31:33.160 --> 31:33.560]  So...
[31:34.220 --> 31:34.900]  Theme three.
[31:35.140 --> 31:46.560]  So, this has been a really important, you know, point for me, not just through this project, but throughout my career, which is, you know, if we kind of build and deploy different products, how do we really, like, increase this mindset?
[31:46.560 --> 31:57.920]  That not only for, you know, professionals, but also just for, like, our people who we're talking to, you know, have them really understand, you know, secure by design policies and practices.
[31:58.300 --> 32:02.700]  And just to even start to understand what all this is, is really helpful.
[32:03.280 --> 32:07.460]  That, you know, yes, you should, you do have, you deserve digital rights.
[32:07.680 --> 32:18.980]  And, you know, do you deserve really kind of, you know, fundamental SPD, PBD, you know, policies that can help with the products, services, and ecosystems that you're functioning within.
[32:18.980 --> 32:22.220]  So, we definitely want people to feel empowered.
[32:22.980 --> 32:29.340]  And as mentioned, like, after we conclude the workshop, everyone comes up with their individual apps, and then we go through all the settings.
[32:29.700 --> 32:33.240]  So, you know, and we're like, no, no, we should strengthen the settings.
[32:33.620 --> 32:33.920]  So...
[32:34.440 --> 32:47.600]  It's interesting as well when we talk about the fact that normally even browsers and applications, they not come... they're not... they don't have all of the privacy settings turned on.
[32:47.600 --> 33:00.380]  They asked why, and we have to explain as well that it's an active effort, and it takes awareness to protect yourself, even when... from your day-to-day usage of different services.
[33:01.580 --> 33:03.780]  So, theme four, it's boring.
[33:04.140 --> 33:07.380]  So, the... this is from some of Julia M.
[33:07.400 --> 33:08.140]  Haney's papers.
[33:08.420 --> 33:12.240]  She has a whole series of papers that she also did with Wayne G.
[33:12.340 --> 33:12.660]  Letters.
[33:13.260 --> 33:16.500]  One of my favorite is, it's scary, it's confusing, it's dull.
[33:16.500 --> 33:26.680]  So, I think that one thing that's been really fun is we really try to integrate, you know, some of these activities or try to be a little more hands-on.
[33:26.880 --> 33:40.240]  We don't have a lot of, like, a lot of content, but trying to think of, in terms of pedagogical design, that we're not just, like, recreating some sort of, like, lackluster programming or some sort of generic content.
[33:40.780 --> 33:44.220]  So, we try to make this very, like, fun and somewhat personalized.
[33:45.620 --> 33:49.580]  Obviously, in terms of resources, sometimes it can be hard to do that.
[33:49.720 --> 33:52.440]  But I think what was really important that Julia M.
[33:52.460 --> 34:01.900]  Haney says is, you know, that the goal of security awareness trading should never just be a check the box, but rather to move employees toward intrinsic motivation.
[34:02.220 --> 34:10.960]  And so, we completely agree that you have to really build a strategy in terms of, like, how you build engagement as well.
[34:10.960 --> 34:15.360]  So, and you don't... we don't really want to go around Manhattan doing...
[34:15.360 --> 34:16.620]  Why would we even do all this?
[34:16.720 --> 34:18.400]  I mean, I guess we could, anyways.
[34:18.700 --> 34:26.060]  But why go around everywhere and just being like, you know, I have the most boring class ever for you to take, and here I am, and let's do this.
[34:26.160 --> 34:29.600]  So, you know, I think we're trying to make it a little bit more fun.
[34:30.620 --> 34:37.940]  And then just to go back to that earlier communication point that I said, is that these sorts of, like, visual analogies...
[34:37.940 --> 34:44.400]  And we were talking about how, you know, memorable public service announcements can really play a role in your life.
[34:44.540 --> 34:51.820]  Is that these sorts of, like, memorable, you know, gamified ways of explaining things do help a lot.
[34:52.260 --> 34:57.680]  I know when we teach, you always talk about, like, would you just go walk around a dark street at night?
[34:58.000 --> 35:01.280]  You know, do you just go talk to strangers in a dark street in the middle of the night?
[35:01.600 --> 35:04.700]  The fact that, like, we've been growing up conditioned to...
[35:04.700 --> 35:13.920]  If you go out at night, there's certain security protections in the physical world, but we have never been taught from the get-go how to protect yourself in the online world.
[35:14.080 --> 35:22.680]  And it helps them kind of understand that this is a knowledge that they don't have at first, but also it's unjust, right?
[35:23.060 --> 35:24.460]  And we need to build it up.
[35:24.580 --> 35:25.180]  And it's like...
[35:25.180 --> 35:27.180]  The other analogy, it's like a muscle.
[35:27.320 --> 35:30.060]  You're not going to get everything right the first time.
[35:30.060 --> 35:34.480]  You just have to build it up, like building your apps and quads.
[35:35.860 --> 35:38.300]  Same with cybersecurity awareness and knowledge.
[35:38.540 --> 35:38.820]  Yeah.
[35:39.660 --> 35:40.620]  Vulnerable populations.
[35:41.020 --> 35:48.640]  So, you know, I think, you know, with a lot of, you know, different academic papers and articles out there, like who's helping victims.
[35:48.920 --> 35:56.020]  So, I think, you know, just being sensitive to, like, these vulnerable populations outside of the kind of elite category.
[35:56.520 --> 35:59.600]  So, ultimately, I mean, that's more than like a theme.
[35:59.820 --> 36:05.920]  I think that's like really been the goal of this research is to think about older adults as one of the most vulnerable groups.
[36:06.060 --> 36:09.220]  And I think, you know, again, the data speaks for itself.
[36:10.340 --> 36:13.960]  And also speaks to this issue with under-reporting rates.
[36:14.200 --> 36:22.000]  So, we see the Pew data earlier in this presentation where about still 70% or more of people are not reporting.
[36:22.620 --> 36:28.080]  And, you know, this issue in practice of victim blaming where, you know, we...
[36:28.080 --> 36:36.980]  If I am a victim of a mugging or somebody attacks me in broad daylight somewhere where I live, thankfully this hasn't happened.
[36:37.600 --> 36:52.400]  And, you know, I'm bruised, I'm physically battered, and, of course, I go to get help, then I'm more likely to get a lot of sympathy from my friends and family versus when you tell somebody that you've been a victim of fraud or, you know, you've been pulled into some sort of scam.
[36:52.880 --> 36:56.060]  So, victim blaming culture does need to shift.
[36:56.580 --> 37:02.000]  And so, what are we actively doing to really address victim blaming and reduce fraud shame?
[37:02.420 --> 37:04.680]  There are a lot of great articles on this.
[37:04.800 --> 37:11.220]  And this is one of my conversations that I've had with some of the people at FINRA and with some of the research that they do.
[37:12.220 --> 37:13.540]  And so, final thoughts.
[37:13.760 --> 37:16.720]  We mentioned we're going to be teaching workshops this fall.
[37:17.240 --> 37:20.340]  We've been working on some of our funding applications.
[37:20.840 --> 37:26.660]  We get a lot of outreach from volunteers who are interested to work with us.
[37:26.660 --> 37:31.440]  And we're just always very interested to meet with like-minded people and organizations.
[37:31.520 --> 37:36.140]  And that's what we've been doing for the project so far.
[37:37.140 --> 37:43.300]  And, yeah, I mean, you've been also thinking a little bit about, you know, different types of funding streams and so forth.
[37:43.440 --> 37:43.500]  Yeah.
[37:43.500 --> 37:44.140]  So, that's been good.
[37:45.580 --> 37:46.220]  And, yeah.
[37:46.600 --> 37:47.040]  That...
[37:47.040 --> 37:48.640]  We're, like, kind of early, I guess.
[37:48.820 --> 37:49.480]  We're, like, wow.
[37:49.760 --> 37:50.300]  We didn't have any questions.
[37:50.320 --> 37:50.760]  Yeah, exactly.
[37:51.020 --> 37:52.680]  So, thanks for listening to us.
[37:52.860 --> 37:53.840]  You can come visit.
[37:53.840 --> 37:57.700]  I'll be signing my book at 2 to 4 p.m.
[37:57.800 --> 37:58.960]  today near the info desk.
[37:59.260 --> 38:01.740]  So, that's my new book, Future of Hacking.
[38:02.780 --> 38:06.920]  So, if you want to come say hi, it'd be great to see you between 2 to 4 p.m.
[38:07.980 --> 38:13.080]  And then, other than that, it's been a real pleasure speaking with you all today.
[38:13.340 --> 38:14.020]  So, thank you.
[38:14.240 --> 38:14.780]  Thank you.
[38:16.460 --> 38:17.080]  Thank you.
[38:19.940 --> 38:23.720]  I'll start off with a question from the chat room.
[38:24.800 --> 38:27.680]  Loneliness can play a role in scams on the elderly.
[38:28.360 --> 38:29.080]  Does your loneliness...
[38:29.080 --> 38:31.380]  Does loneliness awareness play a role in your work?
[38:32.520 --> 38:33.740]  So, it's...
[38:33.740 --> 38:37.060]  I think loneliness awareness is something that...
[38:37.060 --> 38:49.040]  Because we work with community organizations who actively engage with them, they do some outreach to keep in contact with the people who get services.
[38:49.040 --> 39:00.760]  But that said, I think one thing that would, based on that comment, would be interesting to do is to, you know, also add a slide or a module that kind of very, like, directly addresses that.
[39:00.900 --> 39:10.880]  But we're working in partnership with organizations who are also addressing, making sure that if you're older, you get out, you do activities, you have friends.
[39:10.880 --> 39:14.560]  So, we are exposed in a kind of...
[39:14.560 --> 39:20.040]  We're exposed to a group of people who have made the step to have friends in a community center.
[39:20.600 --> 39:39.000]  Also, I would add that when we touch on romance scams, for example, or the topic of big butchering, we explain it to them, and we kind of address the fact that maybe it's a Facebook friends that you think you haven't seen in a long time, but your mind can try to justify this relationship.
[39:39.000 --> 39:40.440]  It's not necessarily...
[39:41.620 --> 39:43.380]  It's not necessarily true.
[39:43.740 --> 39:51.120]  So, and the other topic is relying on your community and asking questions and trying to talk about what is happening.
[39:51.120 --> 40:03.960]  If you think something is weird or strange, reaching out to someone in person to show them a text message, show the communication, and try to, like, create more networks of support in that regard.
[40:04.140 --> 40:05.700]  And just to add to that, that's important.
[40:05.920 --> 40:23.500]  One thing we do encourage in every workshop, too, as Josefina was saying, is that we ask them to please find a buddy, so a friend who maybe won't want to come to this workshop, and to kind of spread the word, or give them a hand, or, you know, offer to proofread,
[40:23.500 --> 40:26.820]  like, a text message or something coming in that doesn't make sense.
[40:27.340 --> 40:27.420]  Yeah.
[40:28.220 --> 40:28.740]  So...
[40:28.740 --> 40:29.620]  Thanks.
[40:30.680 --> 40:34.680]  What does ICS and OT mean in this context?
[40:35.020 --> 40:37.100]  Oh, so this means industrial control system.
[40:37.280 --> 40:54.360]  So, if we think about, like, the attack on Alpharetta, for example, or, like, Colonial Pipeline, you know, any critical services that you receive in your neighborhood, as, like, an everyday citizen are things that people have a pretty good sense of, who supplies your water,
[40:54.540 --> 40:57.020]  who supplies your, like, sewage systems.
[40:57.260 --> 41:15.520]  And so, teaching about industrial control system attacks, you know, is a way to be safe, but also to understand, you know, say, for example, your water supply, like, as in Oldsmar, Florida, as someone has threatened to poison it or hack it or change it, you know, how do you coordinate with your community members?
[41:20.180 --> 41:24.620]  How do you send a message to safely know to stop using the water system?
[41:24.960 --> 41:26.740]  And, you know, I think that's good training.
[41:27.620 --> 41:39.280]  Not... and I think what's good about that, too, is people kind of already have a sense of this, but they might not be thinking of it in terms of a cyber threat, especially within the older age demographic.
[41:39.460 --> 41:47.420]  But we all have a sense of our community infrastructure and our reliance on these systems that allow us to live in safe neighborhoods.
[41:47.940 --> 41:48.220]  Yeah.
[41:48.360 --> 41:51.460]  And so that is, like, synonymous with OT?
[41:52.220 --> 41:56.040]  Well, I mean, also, you know, in terms of operational, it's pretty common.
[41:56.160 --> 41:56.400]  Oh, operational.
[41:56.580 --> 41:56.720]  Cool.
[41:56.720 --> 41:56.900]  Exactly.
[41:57.500 --> 42:04.480]  It's great to learn, like, the other definitions because I interpret ICS as a calendar file type.
[42:04.840 --> 42:05.540]  Oh, that's true.
[42:05.540 --> 42:07.660]  And OT as in overtime.
[42:08.280 --> 42:08.640]  Sorry.
[42:09.160 --> 42:09.760]  So...
[42:09.760 --> 42:09.900]  Yeah.
[42:10.000 --> 42:10.820]  Very educational.
[42:11.000 --> 42:11.240]  Thank you.
[42:11.420 --> 42:14.940]  I mean the other industrial control systems, but yes, it's true.
[42:15.300 --> 42:17.220]  So, yeah, thank you for asking.
[42:18.340 --> 42:18.440]  Okay.
[42:19.440 --> 42:21.800]  Thank you for the very useful information.
[42:22.600 --> 42:24.640]  So, I do cryptocurrency.
[42:24.640 --> 42:30.460]  So, when I think my work and your topic together.
[42:30.760 --> 42:30.960]  Okay.
[42:31.060 --> 42:32.000]  Here's my question.
[42:32.740 --> 42:41.560]  Did you do any research about a scam which come from the crypto industry?
[42:41.820 --> 42:50.620]  For example, related to Web3 or blockchain and toward the Edo population.
[42:50.620 --> 42:57.200]  If you did, do they have any common shared phases?
[42:57.920 --> 43:03.540]  And do they have any difference from the older style scammers?
[43:04.000 --> 43:05.180]  Can you share with us?
[43:05.420 --> 43:05.780]  Thank you.
[43:06.060 --> 43:14.140]  Well, for the pig butchering and romance scams, a lot of these are built on pretty realistic looking crypto apps.
[43:14.620 --> 43:21.400]  So, you know, whoever is building the fraudulent app is imitating an actual valid app.
[43:21.560 --> 43:33.360]  So, it's very hard for people who are being caught up, you know, after they've been victim to engineering, once they've actually received this app that they're actively making investments into.
[43:34.260 --> 43:41.440]  So, I don't know if that answers your question, but definitely it comes up a lot in terms of romance scams, in terms of pig butchering and so forth.
[43:41.680 --> 43:44.060]  So, you know, that's where we see it a lot.
[43:44.360 --> 43:44.420]  Yeah.
[43:44.420 --> 43:45.200]  So, you want to add to that?
[43:45.200 --> 43:47.500]  No, we see it a lot in that.
[43:47.740 --> 44:01.100]  And the message we kind of base it on is, like, again, stopping, checking with your service provider, if it's either financial provider, but then checking with your community.
[44:01.360 --> 44:03.840]  Does this seem true to you?
[44:04.200 --> 44:06.400]  Is it missing some key information?
[44:06.400 --> 44:16.200]  Do I know this person more than specifically towards this cryptocurrency or the medium of financial?
[44:16.480 --> 44:25.220]  I would definitely take a look at some of the FINRA white papers in terms of what they've come up with this for as well, since this will be in terms of their financial specialty.
[44:26.300 --> 44:28.400]  So, it's a really important area.
[44:28.400 --> 44:43.140]  And actually, in terms of data points, too, if you compare the FBI data sets from last year and this year in the 20 to 50 range and the 60 and above, crypto is pretty high across the board.
[44:43.300 --> 44:46.900]  So, I didn't have that data in the data set for today.
[44:47.440 --> 44:49.420]  But it's a really important topic.
[44:49.660 --> 44:52.480]  So, and it weaves back into, like, a lot of this, right?
[44:52.700 --> 45:01.620]  So, and I think it's pretty sad, too, because I think it detracts from, like, the importance of what decentralized systems can do for people.
[45:02.560 --> 45:11.700]  And instead, you know, it's, you know, how can we manipulate people with a decentralized system versus how can we help them find alternatives within larger systems?
[45:13.020 --> 45:13.640]  All right.
[45:13.720 --> 45:15.220]  Another question from the chat room.
[45:15.480 --> 45:23.000]  In your opinion, what's the most effective way to teach cybersecurity habits to people who aren't very tech savvy, especially older adults?
[45:24.100 --> 45:35.140]  Well, I'll just start by saying that throughout this presentation, like, and I know it may sound a bit silly, but using games and analogies is very useful.
[45:35.820 --> 45:38.840]  You know, acronyms, games.
[45:39.380 --> 45:57.780]  So, we really try to tap into that and using really simple analogies, like we, you know, about walking down the street at night, you know, and like trying to kind of compare the the difference between, like, you know, an online environment and a real world, you know, environment where there might be crime helps to kind of clarify things.
[46:03.220 --> 46:14.800]  So, I think wherever you're willing, if you're in charge of doing the curriculum within your corporation, or you have to do some of this on your own, and I know a lot of people feel very burdened.
[46:14.800 --> 46:34.420]  A lot of people I talk to at different companies, I've met people where it's like there's this one person who does all of this, that if there is time to think of a way to, like, gamify the curriculum or make it pedagogically interesting or fun, this for sure helps commit it to your long-term memory.
[46:34.420 --> 46:36.720]  I would add also reassurance.
[46:37.480 --> 46:39.580]  Many people feel like, oh, it's too hard for me.
[46:39.660 --> 46:40.340]  Why should I try?
[46:40.480 --> 46:41.800]  Why should I give the first step?
[46:42.160 --> 46:42.220]  Right?
[46:43.720 --> 46:44.660]  Admitting that it is hard.
[46:44.860 --> 46:45.740]  Admitting that it is hard.
[46:45.860 --> 46:47.260]  We're not, we're starting from zero here.
[46:47.340 --> 46:48.340]  You have to build it up.
[46:48.480 --> 46:50.240]  You don't have to know everything in one hour.
[46:50.400 --> 46:52.260]  We don't expect you to know everything in one hour.
[46:52.620 --> 47:06.800]  One key message that we always say is, you don't have to, like, you can, if you can get one thing from this workshop, is to first, like, stop and, like, think critical, but also, like, rely on your community, have that curiosity, talk to your friends,
[47:06.940 --> 47:10.260]  talk to your, talk to more people about this topic, introduce it.
[47:10.680 --> 47:26.500]  But if we just, and we notice even a switch from the first set of workshop where we only deliver the information, and then when we started kind of pausing and saying, this is hard, these people are trained to target you.
[47:26.500 --> 47:35.320]  They are, like, they work, this is their nine to five, and you're not expected to be, like, 100% prepared, but it's just the first step.
[47:36.700 --> 47:40.540]  And then we have time, it looks like, for just one or two more questions, if that's okay, I'm sorry.
[47:40.760 --> 47:41.940]  But thank you all for the questions.
[47:42.280 --> 47:43.640]  First of all, thank you so much.
[47:43.760 --> 47:45.860]  This is probably my favorite discussion so far.
[47:45.940 --> 47:46.120]  Really?
[47:46.360 --> 47:46.840]  Thank you.
[47:47.600 --> 47:56.900]  It really touches home for me, because I want, I've been trying to build a framework for my own community to present this to all demographics, but specifically aging populations.
[47:58.360 --> 48:05.180]  So, I saw that the Cybercare Institute, when you showed it up there, it seemed like it was something that could be disseminated to other communities.
[48:05.420 --> 48:05.540]  Yeah.
[48:05.560 --> 48:09.220]  Do you have a plan to do that, and how can I get this in my community?
[48:09.880 --> 48:20.700]  Well, you know, I think with our funding initiative, one thing you could do, too, is just talk to us afterwards, and we'd be happy to share some of the curriculum frameworks that we've come up so far.
[48:21.480 --> 48:28.740]  This is by no means like a, you know, proprietary piece of software inside a, you know, some sort of company somewhere.
[48:28.960 --> 48:40.840]  So, feel free to email us, and we can send you some different guidelines and ideas that could help, maybe help get started, or notes about what worked well and what didn't, and also this presentation we're happy to share with you as well.
[48:43.780 --> 48:46.420]  Thank you so much for this very important work.
[48:46.420 --> 48:51.400]  I'll definitely sync up with you later when you're signing, but just a couple of things.
[48:51.640 --> 48:57.900]  In terms of the equating things to physical crime, like mugging, I think you talked about.
[48:58.120 --> 49:09.140]  One of the difficulties is the fraudsters are generally much more sophisticated, and they literally have psychologists working with them sometimes at some of these scam centers.
[49:09.380 --> 49:13.460]  So, it's a little bit difficult sometimes to equate to that.
[49:13.460 --> 49:18.420]  One of the things I've found in working with people is telling them about some of the stories.
[49:18.680 --> 49:23.500]  Like, I did a lot of research on dark web and telling them what happens afterwards.
[49:23.660 --> 49:25.540]  Like, why is their data important?
[49:25.760 --> 49:26.500]  What happens?
[49:26.680 --> 49:40.100]  And so, if they, if you put it in context for them, I think a lot of times that helps them understand how what they're seeing is just like a small part of what happens as a whole.
[49:40.100 --> 49:55.480]  But, the question I had was, it's great, education is fantastic, but I think what's frustrating, and I don't know what your opinion is on this, but, you know, this is the kind of stuff that should be showing up on the places where they're being targeted.
[49:55.480 --> 50:00.580]  These are the, like you showed some of the public service commercials.
[50:00.960 --> 50:05.680]  You know, I don't see any anti-pig-butchering things on Facebook.
[50:05.960 --> 50:07.680]  I don't see any of those things.
[50:07.680 --> 50:10.480]  I see a ton of commercials and stupid video scrolls.
[50:11.380 --> 50:12.100]  Sorry, I shouldn't.
[50:12.840 --> 50:23.820]  Videos, but, you know, you don't see these public service announcements that really should be coming up and seeing people where they're being targeted.
[50:23.820 --> 50:31.220]  And also, even for some of these people who are actually doing this, who are also victims and being trafficked, etc.
[50:32.040 --> 50:40.780]  So, I mean, I think there's so much more responsibility for both the financial institutions and the social media institutions.
[50:40.780 --> 50:52.200]  Yeah, and I don't mean to digress, but another part of the research I do is about, has been working with some of these organizations in Southeast Asia to understand a lot of the cyber-enabled trafficking that's going on.
[50:52.300 --> 50:53.380]  And I've been writing about it.
[50:54.040 --> 51:03.220]  And, yeah, I think, you know, we're, the way that we're categorizing and thinking about a lot of these issues is just very underwhelming in terms of what is happening.
[51:03.220 --> 51:05.060]  So, I 100% agree.
[51:05.260 --> 51:10.220]  And also, thank you for the feedback, too, about other ways to kind of, like, deal with some of these analogies.
[51:10.420 --> 51:14.040]  We're always looking for ways to work with the people we're working with.
[51:14.040 --> 51:16.480]  So, we'll let the next group get set up.
[51:16.700 --> 51:17.120]  So...
[51:17.120 --> 51:17.800]  Thank you very much.
[51:17.920 --> 51:18.520]  Round of applause.
[51:18.520 --> 51:19.000]  Thank you very much.