[00:00.000 --> 00:09.700] ...log for the first time, which it took him 51 hours and 16 days to pick it, which is about how long it will take most convention goers to pick their first log. [00:14.930 --> 00:22.930] Alright, in 1861, the son of Linus Nell Jr. invented the modern pen tumbler design. [00:23.290 --> 00:26.410] This is the design that we see around the world today. [00:26.870 --> 00:38.350] Basically, cuts on a key lift a series of pin stacks, two pins in each stack, to where the split between the driver and the key pin meets the line between the plug and the shell. [00:38.910 --> 00:40.530] The plug is the part that turns. [00:40.930 --> 00:45.950] So, when everything is right, you can see on the right there, all of these cuts are lined up. [00:46.610 --> 00:48.610] And the plug can turn and the lock will open. [00:49.350 --> 00:54.490] This is the basis for pretty much every lock design out there right now for the most part. [00:56.990 --> 00:59.230] Moving on to some lock sporting groups. [00:59.770 --> 01:04.610] We have TOOOL Netherlands, SS Dev, Lock Sport International, and TOOOL U.S. [01:05.670 --> 01:09.430] And some lock sport publications and sponsors. [01:09.650 --> 01:13.350] We have Indie Magazine, DEFCON, and HOPE, and local meetings. [01:16.390 --> 01:16.950] Alright. [01:17.690 --> 01:22.270] TOOOL is pretty much the predominant lock sport organization in the world. [01:22.390 --> 01:23.410] They're based out of the Netherlands. [01:24.430 --> 01:29.110] Han Fei and Barry Wells are pretty much the leaders of this organization. [01:29.890 --> 01:33.330] They host Black Bag, the security blog. [01:33.410 --> 01:34.170] Anybody read Black Bag? [01:35.170 --> 01:35.590] Anybody? [01:35.990 --> 01:36.330] Nice. [01:37.390 --> 01:42.550] If you read Black Bag, come up to the stage for a minute, because we have something to give you. [01:43.110 --> 01:43.930] Just real quick. [01:44.030 --> 01:44.290] Real quick. [01:44.410 --> 01:44.610] Real quick. [01:44.770 --> 01:45.250] Real quick. [01:45.250 --> 01:45.470] Tools. [01:46.710 --> 01:47.470] Free stuff. [01:47.730 --> 01:47.990] All right. [01:48.270 --> 01:49.430] One, two, three, four. [01:49.830 --> 01:49.850] Hurry up. [01:50.350 --> 01:50.790] All right. [01:51.030 --> 01:51.350] That's it. [01:51.970 --> 01:52.330] Keep going. [01:52.570 --> 01:52.930] All right. [01:54.530 --> 01:57.470] We consider TOOOL to have some of the best research minds. [01:57.630 --> 02:00.710] These are the top tier pickers and researchers out there. [02:02.590 --> 02:04.210] But they do have limited membership. [02:05.350 --> 02:05.690] All right. [02:05.890 --> 02:12.070] SS Dev is... I don't know much about this organization, although they do have about a thousand members in Germany. [02:12.070 --> 02:14.630] They were the first lock sporting organization. [02:16.470 --> 02:19.310] This is a... This is their cute logo. [02:19.610 --> 02:23.650] It's a little elf with some pics in his hand, sitting on top of a profile cylinder. [02:24.410 --> 02:29.590] Although, recently they changed their logo to this... This chick holding some lock pics. [02:29.750 --> 02:30.730] Much sexier. [02:31.010 --> 02:33.890] I've never seen a girl like that picking locks, though. [02:33.890 --> 02:46.740] So... This is obviously the best lock sporting organization. [02:47.820 --> 02:49.580] Because I run it. [02:51.480 --> 02:54.000] Um... It was... It started in 2005. [02:54.220 --> 03:02.140] It's run by Josh Necreb, who's the, uh... Administrative... Administrator on lockpicking101.com. [03:02.780 --> 03:04.000] Um... It's based out of Canada. [03:04.160 --> 03:05.580] We have six active chapters. [03:06.040 --> 03:07.360] And about 200 members. [03:08.600 --> 03:11.080] Um... They also put out the LSI guide to lockpicking. [03:11.220 --> 03:12.140] Has anybody read that guide? [03:12.860 --> 03:13.260] You? [03:13.720 --> 03:14.520] It's the best. [03:14.820 --> 03:17.400] It's... Before that, there was the MIT guide, which was nice. [03:18.080 --> 03:19.520] This thing's written like a comic book. [03:19.700 --> 03:22.500] Even... Even the kid next door can learn how to break into your house. [03:23.880 --> 03:26.440] It's... It's a really great... I wish I had it when I first started. [03:27.200 --> 03:29.920] And we're interested in, you know, the growth of a hobby as a whole. [03:30.060 --> 03:33.180] We want to provide a safe haven for people to pick locks. [03:33.180 --> 03:35.820] And, um... Exchange ideas. [03:36.140 --> 03:38.740] And we want to do that on a worldwide scale. [03:40.360 --> 03:42.980] So... That's what we're here today to tell you about. [03:44.760 --> 03:47.240] This is a picture of one of our meetings in Austin. [03:47.540 --> 03:49.480] We're having a handcuff opening competition. [03:51.060 --> 03:55.060] Um... And this is an extremely popular competition that we hold. [03:55.060 --> 04:03.520] And, you know, this... The winner of the competition will get, like, his own, uh... A lockpicking kit, a profile cylinder, and his own handcuffs to take home. [04:03.700 --> 04:06.620] And it's something that we do, um... Once a year. [04:06.820 --> 04:08.340] And it's one of our most popular meetings. [04:12.220 --> 04:12.780] All right. [04:13.040 --> 04:13.860] TOOOL.us. [04:15.200 --> 04:18.540] These... These guys are a little bit smaller than, uh... Locksport International. [04:18.900 --> 04:21.420] It's run by Eric Michaud, Babak Javadi, and Devian Olam. [04:22.580 --> 04:25.480] Um... They have pretty much the same mission statement as LSI does. [04:25.560 --> 04:26.960] They just want to advance the field. [04:27.300 --> 04:29.740] And, uh... Get lockpicking out there to the masses. [04:29.960 --> 04:31.460] Because a lot of people aren't familiar with what we do. [04:32.320 --> 04:33.580] Um... They... They run conferences. [04:34.460 --> 04:35.240] Uh... HOPE. [04:35.460 --> 04:35.860] DEFCON. [04:35.960 --> 04:36.500] They run the villages. [04:37.020 --> 04:40.060] And they've got a few active chapters in Princeton, Boston, Chicago. [04:41.360 --> 04:43.880] But, uh... We hope to see a lot more activity out of them in the future. [04:46.910 --> 04:48.670] We have, uh... NDE Magazine. [04:48.910 --> 04:50.030] Non-destructive entry. [04:50.590 --> 04:52.550] This is, uh... A community-driven magazine. [04:52.810 --> 04:55.930] It's pretty much the only lock-sport specific mag out there. [04:56.850 --> 05:01.830] If, uh... Have an article you want... You want to write about locks, there's a good chance it's gonna get published. [05:01.830 --> 05:03.190] They're always looking for content. [05:03.670 --> 05:06.250] Uh... I chose to release MyMedeco tool through them. [05:07.130 --> 05:10.630] And, uh... It's run by Skylartown, Mike Brewerton, and John Naughton. [05:12.150 --> 05:13.770] Next issue coming out next week. [05:14.650 --> 05:15.570] Thank you, Skylar. [05:15.750 --> 05:15.750] That's correct. [05:15.850 --> 05:17.650] The next issue is coming up in a week. [05:20.150 --> 05:24.830] So, moving on to, um... You know, why you should start your own locksport organization. [05:25.210 --> 05:26.910] Why you should spread the word about locksport. [05:27.130 --> 05:28.950] You know, you may have never picked a lock before. [05:28.950 --> 05:32.390] This may be the first time you've ever even heard about locksport in general. [05:33.170 --> 05:34.710] Um... But that shouldn't stop you. [05:35.110 --> 05:36.330] We can still work together. [05:36.430 --> 05:37.210] We can still make it happen. [05:37.370 --> 05:43.690] You want to be, kind of, an expert in a field that is very young and nobody knows about. [05:43.810 --> 05:47.570] And this is your opportunity to be that expert and to start new things. [05:49.510 --> 05:49.910] So... [05:52.110 --> 05:56.490] Um... You can... You know, for me, it was... It was the idea of being that expert in a new field. [05:56.910 --> 05:58.170] And I took it so far. [05:58.250 --> 06:02.650] This is a picture of... Of me picking locks underwater in scuba gear. [06:04.630 --> 06:05.190] What did you say? [06:05.210 --> 06:05.770] No, it isn't? [06:06.190 --> 06:07.130] You're not in that picture. [06:07.210 --> 06:07.730] Oh, I'm not. [06:07.830 --> 06:08.070] You're right. [06:08.310 --> 06:11.270] This is a picture of me taking the... The picture. [06:12.030 --> 06:12.370] Sorry. [06:12.470 --> 06:12.650] Whatever. [06:12.970 --> 06:13.610] You know what I'm talking about. [06:16.750 --> 06:19.470] It's, uh... It's easy to be an expert in a field that nobody's doing. [06:19.710 --> 06:20.070] Right. [06:20.570 --> 06:22.170] So... If that's who you want to be, go for it. [06:22.210 --> 06:25.130] And people really look up to you when you're like... When you do stuff like that. [06:25.190 --> 06:27.050] Especially when it's something as cool as picking locks. [06:31.770 --> 06:32.130] Um... [06:32.130 --> 06:32.830] Oh, here we go. [06:33.310 --> 06:37.350] Are you prepared to devote your time and motivation to starting a locksport organization? [06:37.350 --> 06:40.330] I tried to start one in my home town, Newport News, Virginia. [06:40.750 --> 06:44.090] We got through about three meetings with a couple... Three, four people each. [06:44.470 --> 06:46.590] And then pretty soon the motivation died out. [06:47.450 --> 06:48.890] You have to be committed. [06:49.090 --> 06:50.390] You want to be the driving force. [06:50.390 --> 06:54.810] Because if you're not willing to show up at every single meeting and give a great show, nobody's gonna come. [06:55.610 --> 06:59.990] So, make sure that you have that drive before you're willing to commit. [07:00.670 --> 07:07.730] So, if someone can tell me how much money it would take to start a lockpicking club or a locksport organization, I'll give you some picks. [07:08.110 --> 07:08.710] Just shout it out. [07:17.410 --> 07:18.330] All right. [07:19.650 --> 07:23.110] So, basically, you're gonna need to find a meeting facility. [07:27.510 --> 07:31.370] The most important thing is you're gonna need a computer hookup with a projector screen. [07:31.810 --> 07:33.010] You're gonna need music. [07:33.550 --> 07:35.830] You need a place where people can come together. [07:35.830 --> 07:36.870] They are going to have a good time. [07:39.130 --> 07:41.730] And music is... I can't stress that enough. [07:41.850 --> 07:44.570] It might seem dumb now, but it's really important. [07:45.350 --> 07:49.010] You come into a room of people and no one knows each other, and you're like, oh, what's going on? [07:49.090 --> 07:49.830] You know, this is weird. [07:49.910 --> 07:52.590] And all these people, like, want to do these weird things. [07:52.730 --> 07:53.030] I don't know. [07:53.170 --> 07:53.790] What's going on? [07:55.650 --> 07:57.190] And then people don't come back, you know? [07:58.190 --> 08:01.830] Some of the places you can try that work are local universities, community colleges. [08:02.850 --> 08:05.090] Churches, surprisingly enough, have been open to this. [08:05.090 --> 08:06.610] So, you never know. [08:07.850 --> 08:09.950] And community centers, as well. [08:11.310 --> 08:11.650] Oh, my God. [08:11.850 --> 08:12.110] Nice. [08:12.410 --> 08:12.810] Skitball? [08:13.210 --> 08:13.550] Yeah. [08:19.530 --> 08:21.610] So, you've got to be creative when you're recruiting. [08:22.150 --> 08:23.630] The idea will sell itself. [08:23.630 --> 08:29.250] If you put up a sign that says, learn how to pick locks, people are going to come straight to you. [08:29.310 --> 08:32.810] They're going to walk by, they're going to turn around and be like, wait, what did that say? [08:32.810 --> 08:34.550] That sounds really cool. [08:35.390 --> 08:40.010] What we did is we had a sign that said, free lock picks. [08:40.330 --> 08:42.630] And we gave out these customized pens. [08:45.560 --> 08:46.240] Oh, it works. [08:46.660 --> 08:48.940] They say Longhorn Lockpicking Club on them. [08:49.160 --> 09:00.280] And it's a free lock pick because you can turn it into a pick that opens up an old series kryptonite bike lock. [09:01.580 --> 09:03.400] And, you know, people were like, well, this is just a pen. [09:04.260 --> 09:15.100] But we showed them, you know, we showed them how it works and they, you know, we explained, you know, if, well, if you do it properly and you explain the ethics and, of course. [09:18.620 --> 09:33.720] And this is also, it was during the Texas primaries, we managed to get, we planned ahead, we managed to get our banner set up in the main mall of our university campus where they were voting during that week. [09:33.720 --> 09:35.160] So everyone was coming to vote. [09:35.240 --> 09:38.440] And the first thing they saw was a, was our Longhorn Lockpicking banner. [09:39.260 --> 09:40.680] So it was very effective. [09:41.420 --> 09:42.700] Way more exciting than the polls. [09:43.440 --> 09:43.720] Right. [09:47.420 --> 09:47.880] All right. [09:47.880 --> 09:47.900] All right. [09:47.960 --> 09:53.780] With your first meetings, your sole purpose with your first meeting in the Locksburg organization should be to gather attention. [09:54.120 --> 09:55.940] You want to get as many people there as possible. [09:56.060 --> 09:57.940] You want to make it as perfect as you can. [09:58.380 --> 10:04.740] If you have people contacting you saying, I want to show up, you should probably tailor your schedule around them rather than vice versa. [10:05.440 --> 10:09.740] The goal is to get as many people in there to talk to their friends and get interest going. [10:10.600 --> 10:12.940] And also you want to establish ethics agreements. [10:13.200 --> 10:18.180] You want to make it perfectly clear from the, from the get-go that we are not a criminal organization. [10:18.180 --> 10:20.060] We don't break into people's houses. [10:20.260 --> 10:24.320] This is something we do for as a hobby for fun and to influence the, the world. [10:25.520 --> 10:26.620] You, it's a good idea. [10:26.780 --> 10:31.660] You're going to want to collect membership dues and sell lockpicks at that meeting after you establish the ethics agreements. [10:32.100 --> 10:35.080] And then later on you can decide if you want to actually have meetings. [10:35.540 --> 10:37.500] Because that way you'll actually have their money first. [10:37.740 --> 10:39.860] You can have the, uh, meetings later. [10:44.500 --> 10:45.600] You're going to need locks. [10:46.060 --> 10:47.160] Definitely lots of locks. [10:47.340 --> 10:51.320] And, you know, um, finding locks is going to be a challenge. [10:52.500 --> 10:55.900] Um, you can go to a locksmith and ask them if they have extra locks. [10:56.300 --> 10:58.640] And you may have trouble doing that. [10:59.280 --> 11:00.580] Locksmiths aren't the nicest people. [11:01.600 --> 11:02.660] They love us. [11:04.140 --> 11:07.580] Extra picks, tools, uh, files, and supplements. [11:08.580 --> 11:13.480] Um, and, uh, as we'll talk about later, is Locksport International will help you out with all this stuff. [11:13.920 --> 11:15.760] You're going to need a curriculum as well. [11:16.400 --> 11:22.620] Um, and you're going to need to pre-plan all this information, all this curriculum before your, uh, lock sport date. [11:22.900 --> 11:24.120] Before the date of your meeting. [11:24.920 --> 11:27.360] Just sitting on a table picking locks works at first. [11:27.720 --> 11:30.700] But after, uh, about an hour or so, people get bored of it. [11:30.800 --> 11:32.000] You've got to have something lined up. [11:32.840 --> 11:37.940] Well, for instance, at one meeting we would have shims, and we'd teach people how to open locks with Coke cans. [11:38.100 --> 11:40.860] And the next meeting we would have, uh, handcuffs. [11:41.040 --> 11:42.160] And we'd teach handcuffs, you know. [11:42.460 --> 11:45.460] And at first people, you know, they didn't know how to pick locks. [11:45.580 --> 11:47.520] So we concentrated on everything except picking locks. [11:47.640 --> 11:51.780] We concentrated on other types of, you know, easier stuff like, uh, shims. [11:52.040 --> 12:01.720] And, um, well, and for instance, the first thing we did is we, when we were talking to the, uh, local police department, is they said, you know, whatever you do, do not teach bump keys. [12:02.300 --> 12:08.320] And if you're familiar with bump keys, it's like a, uh, it's basically, it's a key that is somewhat of a universal key. [12:08.560 --> 12:15.020] It, it, it, with a proper technique, you can open, um, most locks without much, much work. [12:15.520 --> 12:18.960] And, you know, the kind of the, we said, all right, that, that, that's fair. [12:19.060 --> 12:20.300] We won't use, we won't teach bump keys. [12:20.480 --> 12:23.640] You know, it's, it's kind of hard, but, but we're kind of running out of material. [12:24.300 --> 12:26.660] So the next meeting, we gave everybody a bump key. [12:35.980 --> 12:37.820] Uh, you want to make your meetings informal? [12:38.180 --> 12:42.060] Um, where I'm at with my club that was short-lived, was at a bar, was at Bennigan's. [12:42.740 --> 12:45.360] Um, they're kind of expensive, but they work. [12:45.540 --> 12:48.060] If you get alcohol and lockpicking flowing, you're good. [12:48.920 --> 12:51.840] Um, it is a good place to brainstorm and recruit new members. [12:52.200 --> 12:57.380] Um, you'll find that people that haven't organized with others will have a lot of great ideas. [12:58.180 --> 13:00.600] And it's, it's a good place to share those and figure it out. [13:00.820 --> 13:03.240] Um, hang up a sign so people know where you are, what you are. [13:03.320 --> 13:05.200] You might even get a random stranger passing by. [13:05.360 --> 13:06.660] They'll be like, oh, what's this, lockpicking? [13:08.300 --> 13:09.220] And that's what you want. [13:09.460 --> 13:15.720] I mean, we had situations where, sitting next to us, there was a group of deaf people, and we taught them how to pick locks. [13:16.040 --> 13:21.000] This is the only bar in Austin where every single bartender and staff knew how to pick a lock. [13:23.200 --> 13:23.680] So... [13:25.400 --> 13:27.080] You know, we definitely had fun with it. [13:27.280 --> 13:27.820] What lock? [13:28.100 --> 13:29.600] Uh, Spider House Cafe. [13:30.040 --> 13:30.440] It's a lock. [13:30.700 --> 13:32.900] It's, it's every, every Friday night. [13:38.300 --> 13:38.780] Ooh. [13:39.060 --> 13:41.620] This is the most important part of the whole situation. [13:42.460 --> 13:44.160] And I'm not, it's not a joke. [13:45.220 --> 13:50.100] Um, Lock Sport International, as long as, as well as many of the, uh, lock supporting organizations. [13:50.320 --> 13:58.120] Our, our creed, as we say, is, um, don't pick locks you don't own, or that you are not given explicit permission to pick. [13:58.720 --> 14:04.440] And this is something that we, you know, this is something that we eat and sleep by. [14:05.520 --> 14:08.200] Lock picking already has a really bad rep with the public. [14:08.660 --> 14:11.060] And if we don't work to change that, it's never going to change. [14:11.240 --> 14:12.960] The laws, they aren't going to get softer. [14:13.100 --> 14:13.940] They're, if anything, aren't going to get harder. [14:14.120 --> 14:17.740] So we have to push this out into the public and let them know, we're not criminals. [14:18.160 --> 14:19.360] We do this for fun. [14:19.520 --> 14:21.820] And there's, there's nothing illegitimate about it. [14:22.940 --> 14:26.820] One thing we did is we let the local law enforcement know what we were doing. [14:27.440 --> 14:31.720] Um, we, the first thing that happened is we went into their office. [14:31.860 --> 14:36.900] They said, well, why should we let you, you know, have lock supporting in our community? [14:37.280 --> 14:43.500] And they said, well, we said, well, we, you know, we're all about community awareness and consumer, you know, involvement. [14:44.180 --> 14:48.300] And, um, they said, well, what is your, what is your view on bicycle safety? [14:48.580 --> 14:56.800] And luckily, one of our officers had recently been to a, uh, police department, um, talk about bicycle safety. [14:56.800 --> 15:05.540] So basically, so he reiterated to the police officer, uh, what the, he had learned in the police officer's speech about bicycle safety. [15:05.660 --> 15:06.840] And the cops said, well, that's what we say. [15:08.080 --> 15:10.260] And he said, you guys could, we could work together. [15:11.460 --> 15:21.460] And then two weeks later, there was an article in the, in the newspaper in the community that said, UT police department and lock sport and, uh, Longhorn lock picking team up. [15:22.200 --> 15:23.240] Uh, so... [15:23.240 --> 15:24.380] You want the police on your side. [15:24.500 --> 15:24.700] Yeah. [15:25.740 --> 15:26.580] It was weird. [15:30.330 --> 15:30.810] Ooh. [15:31.410 --> 15:36.410] So, um, if you decide to start a lock picking organization, we'll be thrilled. [15:36.730 --> 15:39.850] Um, it's, we're going to provide, we'll provide practice cylinders, picks. [15:39.850 --> 15:45.910] Um, we'll provide picks for a discount rate for you to sell to your members and make a profit off of, for your organization. [15:46.390 --> 15:54.350] Um, we'll provide you a banner with your local organization's name, uh, ideas, curriculums, and, you know, means of communication. [15:54.650 --> 15:55.990] And most of all, legitimacy. [15:56.310 --> 16:00.930] Do you have our name on your, uh, lock picking clubs? [16:02.810 --> 16:03.290] Um... [16:03.290 --> 16:08.630] It's a lot easier to explain to, uh, curious bystanders and the police that you're part of a, uh, worldwide organization. [16:09.190 --> 16:10.210] That this is legitimate. [16:12.890 --> 16:18.690] And this is an excerpt from, uh, the speech that I'm giving on Sunday about ID card security. [16:19.910 --> 16:22.630] Just a little pre, uh... [16:23.550 --> 16:23.810] Alright. [16:23.950 --> 16:24.210] Woo! [16:24.650 --> 16:25.750] Alright, this is where I take over. [16:26.250 --> 16:30.250] Um, this portion of the talk is going to be about a tool I've developed called the Metacoder. [16:30.770 --> 16:36.810] It's, uh, it's very similar to a tool that was developed almost 30 years ago to open Medeco Locks. [16:36.810 --> 16:39.690] And I'm amazed that nobody's figured it out since. [16:41.830 --> 16:45.950] Uh, like I said, I'm in the Navy. [16:46.090 --> 16:46.650] I'm a Locksport hobbyist. [16:46.650 --> 16:47.590] I'm also a security geek. [16:47.590 --> 16:51.890] Uh, I'm not speaking on behalf of the Navy. [16:52.130 --> 16:53.490] I do not represent them officially. [16:53.490 --> 16:57.230] And my views are not necessarily those of the United States Navy or the federal government. [16:57.510 --> 16:59.470] I'm also not speaking on behalf of Medeco. [16:59.750 --> 17:01.370] I am not a perfect human being. [17:01.370 --> 17:02.730] My memory is flawed. [17:03.070 --> 17:07.190] So, if I say something up here, don't take it as gospel from the company. [17:08.650 --> 17:09.330] Let's see. [17:12.780 --> 17:12.960] Alright. [17:13.680 --> 17:16.260] Medeco Locks used to be the Holy Grail of pen tumblers. [17:16.740 --> 17:21.280] Um, since roughly the, uh, 70s, they've been the lock to attack. [17:22.220 --> 17:24.320] And this is why I became obsessed with them. [17:24.480 --> 17:26.340] They've got a nasty reputation. [17:26.520 --> 17:28.800] They're used on White House Pentagon embassies. [17:29.100 --> 17:31.700] I heard a rumor they were using missile launching systems. [17:32.520 --> 17:36.820] But, uh, the thing with Medeco is the pins have to both lift, like a normal lock. [17:37.020 --> 17:39.220] And they also have to rotate to the right angle. [17:39.460 --> 17:42.000] This is accomplished by angled cuts on the key. [17:42.900 --> 17:45.340] Uh, there have been a lot of attempts by the community to open these locks. [17:45.520 --> 17:46.940] Some of them successful, some not. [17:47.160 --> 17:54.780] But we believe that, uh, I have the most consistent method thus far developed through lockpicking101.com and easy picking anyway. [17:55.780 --> 17:58.560] Uh, I'm gonna try to show you how Medeco works in one slide. [17:59.160 --> 18:00.180] So bear with me. [18:02.060 --> 18:02.760] All right. [18:03.560 --> 18:05.240] You can see the key right in the middle. [18:05.340 --> 18:06.700] That is a Medeco backfield key. [18:07.020 --> 18:09.100] The cuts on it, if you notice, are angled. [18:09.740 --> 18:13.940] And those cuts fit into the chisel tip of that pin on the right. [18:14.220 --> 18:15.100] It's kind of blurry. [18:16.020 --> 18:21.140] So what happens when you put that key in there, it lifts the pins up and it rotates into the proper angle. [18:22.120 --> 18:23.500] Now, how is this enforced? [18:23.800 --> 18:24.880] What is the proper angle? [18:25.760 --> 18:28.200] There's a groove going alongside the pin there. [18:28.260 --> 18:29.100] You can see it on the right. [18:29.960 --> 18:32.940] And that groove lines up with teeth on a bar. [18:33.080 --> 18:34.340] You can see it on the left over there. [18:35.420 --> 18:40.760] And this bar must drop into the plug before the plug will turn and the lock will open. [18:41.620 --> 18:43.560] Up top, you can see one that's not aligned. [18:43.560 --> 18:47.780] That middle pin right there, third from the front, you can see it real well. [18:48.200 --> 18:51.600] That groove is not aligned with the sidebar. [18:51.720 --> 18:52.540] It's off a little bit. [18:53.380 --> 18:56.320] Thus, the sidebar cannot drop in and the plug will not open. [18:57.180 --> 19:02.080] However, with an opened lock down at the bottom, there's the proper key inserted. [19:02.760 --> 19:07.680] You notice that every single one of those grooves is lined up nice and neat with those teeth on the bar. [19:07.680 --> 19:10.960] So it can drop in, the plug will turn, and the lock will open. [19:11.900 --> 19:14.500] The challenge is, how do you turn those pins? [19:15.300 --> 19:17.560] You know, these aren't huge key ways. [19:18.020 --> 19:23.160] You have to find some way to turn those pins consistently and effectively in order to open these locks. [19:24.420 --> 19:26.840] Well, this will be demonstrated a little better in a minute. [19:26.940 --> 19:29.480] We have an active cutaway of a Medeco cylinder. [19:30.460 --> 19:34.840] So if it's a little bit confusing now, then don't fret. [19:35.540 --> 19:36.620] Who's opened a Medeco? [19:37.780 --> 19:38.640] Who's picked one? [19:39.100 --> 19:39.520] I don't know. [19:39.660 --> 19:40.080] I have a key. [19:42.640 --> 19:43.420] Very nice. [19:44.280 --> 19:45.320] Mark, you aren't raising your hand. [19:51.450 --> 19:53.890] Silly creative answers get picks. [19:55.150 --> 19:56.310] That's the proof in the pudding. [19:56.550 --> 19:57.470] Do you have a Medeco key? [19:59.530 --> 20:00.410] All right. [20:03.610 --> 20:05.030] So I found some problems. [20:07.370 --> 20:09.370] First one, open grooves. [20:10.070 --> 20:10.930] This is ridiculous. [20:11.670 --> 20:17.050] The groove that allows those teeth in the sidebar to drop in goes all the way through the pin. [20:18.810 --> 20:20.130] My first question is, why? [20:20.710 --> 20:22.050] And there's not really a good answer. [20:22.370 --> 20:28.510] And what you can do is you can hook a wire into the bottom of that pin, and by pushing it forward and backward, you can control the rotation. [20:29.190 --> 20:34.710] So that's pretty much the most difficult part is being able to control the rotation independently on each pin. [20:37.820 --> 20:38.780] This is the other one. [20:38.860 --> 20:39.540] This is kind of neat. [20:41.180 --> 20:47.180] Each one of these grooves, once the lock is open, once it's in its open state, is evenly spaced. [20:48.240 --> 20:50.000] There's no variable here. [20:50.140 --> 20:51.120] This isn't part of the bidding. [20:51.440 --> 20:56.300] These all line up perfectly, 0.17 inches between each one. [20:56.520 --> 21:01.160] And this hasn't changed since Medeco was introduced back in the late 60s, early 70s. [21:01.400 --> 21:04.000] This is the same for original biaxial M3. [21:04.220 --> 21:05.220] It never changes. [21:09.320 --> 21:13.260] And the first tool designs were aimed at getting all those pins rotated at once. [21:13.400 --> 21:15.520] You can see I've got kind of a comb thing going on. [21:16.080 --> 21:17.840] These tools did not work at all. [21:18.720 --> 21:23.060] The idea was that you could, you know, rake in there and hook into those pins all at once. [21:23.800 --> 21:31.840] And then through a spring tension on the wires, the pins would just align automatically and the lock would open and it would be amazing. [21:32.220 --> 21:33.120] It didn't work. [21:33.120 --> 21:36.700] You can see JB Weld being used on the tool there. [21:39.100 --> 21:40.420] So there had to be a better way. [21:40.520 --> 21:43.320] I had to learn how to hook into these pins one at a time. [21:43.900 --> 21:45.960] I started with a regular bent wire. [21:46.120 --> 21:50.160] This is .02 inch diameter, I believe. [21:53.540 --> 21:56.480] And I have opened Medecos with these before. [21:57.280 --> 22:01.120] Pretty much you just hook in and you're kind of feeling like lock picking, you know. [22:01.120 --> 22:03.920] There are false gates, but it can be done. [22:04.120 --> 22:08.680] With a normal pick set and a wire, you can open these relatively consistently. [22:11.640 --> 22:12.820] And this is the tool. [22:13.060 --> 22:14.260] The very beginnings of it anyway. [22:14.880 --> 22:17.340] I started off with a paper scale. [22:17.780 --> 22:19.880] Just put it off in Photoshop and wrapped around. [22:22.160 --> 22:25.700] Then I went to, I chiseled the scale and I used silver solder. [22:26.020 --> 22:27.800] I'll explain how the tool works in a moment. [22:27.860 --> 22:29.420] I just wanted to see how this thing started out. [22:29.520 --> 22:32.160] I didn't make the purdy tools from the get-go. [22:33.900 --> 22:39.920] We have JB Weld plus the ghetto lathe. [22:43.430 --> 22:44.330] Is that hot? [22:44.590 --> 22:49.290] I don't have access to a machine shop, but I do have a power drill and some clamps. [22:52.030 --> 22:57.730] And it turns out if you clamp your drill to your desk, you can make a pretty effective lathe. [22:58.770 --> 23:00.910] So that's what I use to cut the scales now. [23:05.560 --> 23:06.000] Purdy. [23:07.800 --> 23:10.780] Alright, the way this tool works is you have two parts. [23:10.940 --> 23:12.940] The inner, the intersection. [23:13.240 --> 23:15.360] I'm going to show the camera here. [23:15.460 --> 23:15.800] Let's see. [23:18.710 --> 23:20.230] You have this inner tool here, right? [23:20.870 --> 23:24.450] It has a mark right there. [23:25.390 --> 23:28.830] That corresponds to the end of the wire tip right there. [23:29.350 --> 23:30.930] So what you do is you hook into each of these pins. [23:31.690 --> 23:33.590] And then you use this... [23:33.590 --> 23:35.110] If I can get it on camera. [23:35.190 --> 23:35.570] There we go. [23:36.450 --> 23:36.730] Whoa! [23:39.290 --> 23:40.810] And this is the outer jacket. [23:41.050 --> 23:42.310] They call it the scale tube. [23:42.690 --> 23:45.270] It butts up against the front of the plug face. [23:45.630 --> 23:51.570] And then you align the mark on the inner tool to the marks on the scale tube. [23:52.390 --> 23:55.770] These are evenly spaced just like the Medeco pins are, just like the grooves are. [23:57.150 --> 24:03.090] And by hooking in and moving forward and backward until the marks align, you can set the pins rotationally. [24:03.290 --> 24:04.430] There's no guesswork. [24:04.570 --> 24:05.190] There's no... [24:05.190 --> 24:06.230] There's no anything. [24:06.390 --> 24:06.770] It's just... [24:06.770 --> 24:07.410] It's there. [24:07.630 --> 24:08.650] It's right in front of you. [24:10.110 --> 24:11.450] And that's the... [24:11.450 --> 24:15.210] I guess the big secret, even though everybody's known about it for the past 30 years. [24:17.210 --> 24:17.650] It's... [24:17.650 --> 24:18.570] Yeah, no. [24:18.650 --> 24:22.510] You know, I kept going and made little design changes out of aluminum with changeable tips. [24:23.290 --> 24:24.970] A stainless steel ladder jacket. [24:26.250 --> 24:27.590] Do a demo already. [24:29.490 --> 24:31.030] I'm going to try and open an M3. [24:38.520 --> 24:40.960] So, something he didn't really mention is... [24:40.960 --> 24:45.300] Before you can use his tool, you have to pick the lock to the shear line first. [24:45.300 --> 24:52.580] And once you pick the lock to the shear line, then you'll feel a small rotation in the plug. [24:52.980 --> 25:00.460] And that rotation in the plug will give you enough give so that the tension has turned... [25:01.020 --> 25:02.800] Has been transferred from the... [25:02.800 --> 25:07.580] The pressure has been transferred from the pins onto the sidebar. [25:07.780 --> 25:14.500] And the sidebar is the mechanism that is being bypassed by rotating the pins. [25:15.980 --> 25:16.380] So... [25:18.260 --> 25:19.040] He's going to do... [25:19.040 --> 25:20.500] He's going to open it with a... [25:21.420 --> 25:22.620] This is a Peterson... [25:23.060 --> 25:25.860] This is a Peterson hook and a flat wrench. [25:34.380 --> 25:37.340] He's going to open it with the closed mortise... [25:37.340 --> 25:38.060] Mortise cylinder. [25:38.240 --> 25:40.240] And then he's going to do it with the cutaway cylinder afterwards. [25:40.280 --> 25:42.400] So you can see what's going on inside the lock. [25:57.430 --> 25:58.370] All eyes on you. [26:00.170 --> 26:00.870] No pressure. [26:06.840 --> 26:08.640] So I'm hooking into the pins now. [26:09.940 --> 26:11.140] Start from the back. [26:11.860 --> 26:13.880] Let me see if you can see this on camera. [26:14.060 --> 26:14.460] Maybe not. [26:15.160 --> 26:16.600] Try to position it. [26:18.060 --> 26:19.480] Yeah, I can't really see it. [26:22.200 --> 26:28.940] But the inner mark is just a bit aft of the scale mark. [26:28.940 --> 26:31.180] And what I'm trying to do is align them by pushing it forward. [26:33.700 --> 26:34.820] That one's aligned. [26:37.080 --> 26:38.480] Are there six pins in the lock? [26:38.740 --> 26:39.780] This is a six pin. [26:40.120 --> 26:40.840] That's correct. [26:41.680 --> 26:43.020] Is this built factory spec? [26:44.640 --> 26:45.240] Say again? [26:45.360 --> 26:46.260] Is it factory spec? [26:46.480 --> 26:46.640] Is it built factory spec? [26:47.680 --> 26:48.820] Is it a factory... [26:48.820 --> 26:49.940] Is it a factory specific... [26:51.100 --> 26:51.400] specification lock? [26:51.700 --> 26:52.300] It is. [26:52.700 --> 26:53.060] Yes. [26:53.060 --> 26:54.820] This hasn't been altered in any way. [27:04.270 --> 27:05.390] I would check it late. [27:07.050 --> 27:07.850] You've heard that. [27:08.070 --> 27:08.270] Yes. [27:08.310 --> 27:12.590] This would be a good time during your lock sport meeting to start the music. [27:15.570 --> 27:16.650] Again, no pressure. [27:41.260 --> 27:41.700] Awesome! [27:47.520 --> 27:48.220] Thank you. [27:49.140 --> 27:50.440] What about the cutaway? [27:50.580 --> 27:51.340] The cutaway? [27:52.240 --> 27:54.040] I haven't even put tools in this one before. [27:54.120 --> 27:54.900] First, let's see. [27:55.000 --> 27:59.440] First, if we can get a close-up on the cutaway with putting the key in and out. [28:00.420 --> 28:04.920] You know, I've somehow managed to lose the correct key for this one. [28:04.980 --> 28:06.400] So, we'll put in the incorrect key. [28:06.860 --> 28:09.720] This is made by a fellow named Mitch Capper. [28:09.840 --> 28:10.800] He's right in the front row. [28:10.800 --> 28:12.100] It's a beautiful cutaway. [28:12.200 --> 28:13.440] It shows exactly how it works. [28:13.960 --> 28:16.680] Although, the resolution is a little spotty on here. [28:18.140 --> 28:20.360] You might have to come by the village and see how these things work. [28:22.260 --> 28:22.660] Hmm. [28:24.500 --> 28:28.580] Yeah, it just isn't sharp enough, it looks like. [28:33.840 --> 28:34.420] Oh, well. [28:36.500 --> 28:37.240] Go back. [28:48.740 --> 28:52.340] Once I made this tool and I saw that it worked, I was really surprised. [28:52.560 --> 28:56.460] My first reaction was, why haven't people in the community thought of this? [28:57.980 --> 29:02.520] So, what I wanted to do was release it publicly to let everybody know what had happened. [29:02.940 --> 29:06.180] And I decided to do that through NDE Magazine, Non-Destructive Entry Magazine. [29:07.740 --> 29:11.180] And our consensus was that we should get a manufacturer reaction. [29:11.540 --> 29:13.260] What does Medeco think about all this? [29:14.980 --> 29:16.860] We got quite a reaction indeed. [29:19.040 --> 29:20.100] Peter Field. [29:23.710 --> 29:27.430] Peter Field is Director of Research at Medeco High Security Locks. [29:28.270 --> 29:35.970] After speaking with him, I got through to him through NDE, Doug, Han, and then to Peter. [29:37.350 --> 29:38.350] I talked to him on the phone. [29:38.450 --> 29:39.170] We arranged a meeting. [29:39.270 --> 29:40.010] He wanted to drive out. [29:40.230 --> 29:43.150] It turned out they just happened to be based in Virginia, Roanoke. [29:43.630 --> 29:45.750] So, it wasn't that difficult for him to come out. [29:46.170 --> 29:47.850] So, he drove to my apartment. [29:48.110 --> 29:49.450] Scholar Town also showed up. [29:49.530 --> 29:51.810] He's the editor-in-chief of NDE Magazine. [29:52.030 --> 29:53.410] He's handling disclosure. [29:55.170 --> 29:58.050] We talked for a good seven hours. [29:58.290 --> 29:59.670] Just about locks. [30:00.550 --> 30:01.270] It was great. [30:01.570 --> 30:02.590] Lock geeks is right. [30:03.890 --> 30:05.250] History showed me tools. [30:05.250 --> 30:06.790] It was a really fun time. [30:07.230 --> 30:08.290] Peter's a great guy. [30:08.870 --> 30:15.370] But, in the end, their response to this tool was, we're going to reimplement ARX. [30:17.650 --> 30:19.090] This is not an ARX pin. [30:19.170 --> 30:21.150] This is actually an old Medeco original pin. [30:21.570 --> 30:24.630] I put this in here to show that they've known about this before. [30:24.990 --> 30:26.210] This is not brand new. [30:26.590 --> 30:29.390] There was a tool back in the 70s that worked similarly to mine. [30:29.510 --> 30:31.730] It couldn't pick them, but it could decode the angles. [30:31.730 --> 30:35.010] It used the same sidebar groove to do so. [30:36.950 --> 30:43.650] They've been used in pretty much government applications since Biaxial came out in the 80s. [30:44.890 --> 30:50.410] Every other Medeco lock, for the most part, has been open and vulnerable for the past, you know, 25, 30 years. [30:51.410 --> 30:55.090] So, they've decided to reimplement ARX as a standard. [30:55.350 --> 31:03.810] So, every single Medeco lock coming off the assembly line is going to have closed groove ARX pins, and this tool is no longer effective. [31:10.850 --> 31:11.990] This is ARX. [31:12.230 --> 31:15.590] The question that we were asking ourselves is, why isn't this shit standard? [31:16.710 --> 31:19.450] You can see there's some really neat pins here. [31:19.630 --> 31:21.930] I'm going to point out one that I really enjoy. [31:24.350 --> 31:25.650] See right here, the groove? [31:26.010 --> 31:28.310] It's closed off at the top and the bottom. [31:29.190 --> 31:30.370] How are you going to hook into that? [31:30.450 --> 31:30.890] You're not. [31:32.970 --> 31:43.790] But ARX is basically a smattering of random extra security features for the pins that makes decoding and picking much more difficult and makes my tool ineffective and others like it. [31:46.960 --> 31:51.540] As far as the future goes, even though they've implemented this, we should keep going. [31:51.700 --> 31:56.460] With Medeco, with everybody, ASSA, Primus, Multilock, Aboly, it doesn't matter. [31:57.940 --> 31:59.280] It's in your hands. [31:59.280 --> 32:02.100] The locksmiths, they're no longer breaking these locks. [32:02.460 --> 32:05.160] That's not what their job description entails anymore. [32:05.440 --> 32:09.800] It's going to be up to the locksport community and hobbyists like us to find the vulnerabilities. [32:10.640 --> 32:17.320] If you find something that you think is significant, you should just think before you throw it out there on the Internet. [32:18.420 --> 32:23.300] You know, it's not a, you definitely have to go to the manufacturer, especially if they've been nasty with you. [32:24.980 --> 32:28.380] Just consider the effect that your actions might have on the general public. [32:28.380 --> 32:31.480] John, how long have you been involved in the locksport community? [32:32.320 --> 32:33.500] Roughly three years. [32:34.920 --> 32:38.000] But this Medeco thing started back in November. [32:38.320 --> 32:39.600] That was when I started research on it. [32:40.300 --> 32:42.140] And anybody can figure this stuff out. [32:42.260 --> 32:44.000] This is super simple. [32:44.300 --> 32:45.740] You just got to look into the system. [32:45.980 --> 32:46.960] That's what we do, right? [32:47.020 --> 32:47.480] We're hackers. [32:47.920 --> 32:48.820] We break systems. [32:51.680 --> 32:52.420] This is you. [32:52.680 --> 32:52.780] Oh. [32:53.240 --> 32:53.540] Well. [32:54.080 --> 32:55.120] I'm going to skip that one. [32:55.340 --> 32:56.420] We already discussed it. [32:56.660 --> 32:57.680] That slide should have been deleted. [32:59.320 --> 33:03.280] So in conclusion, the locksport community is growing rapidly. [33:03.280 --> 33:06.020] So it's basically, it's a great time to jump on board. [33:07.460 --> 33:09.580] And we're going to help you do that if you decide to. [33:13.040 --> 33:15.580] Starting in a locksport organization is a great way to exercise your leadership. [33:16.660 --> 33:24.060] There's very few opportunities where you can show your caliber as a leader and guiding people in their endeavors. [33:24.300 --> 33:26.740] And starting a locksport organization is a good way to do that. [33:26.740 --> 33:27.860] It's uncharted territory. [33:31.850 --> 33:34.930] Locksport organizations can also inspire, drive, and fund new research. [33:37.290 --> 33:44.670] I think the support that I've gotten from Locksport International and TOOOL have really helped this tool through development. [33:45.850 --> 33:47.690] Whenever you have people sending you... [33:47.690 --> 33:50.630] I mean, I've got locks, tools, pins. [33:51.270 --> 33:56.930] Once people found out about this, they were sending me just mountains of stuff because they wanted to see it succeed. [33:58.850 --> 34:01.410] And that can really give you the motivation to keep going. [34:01.550 --> 34:08.510] When you have people out there that are just as excited as you about breaking these locks, you're going to keep going. [34:10.170 --> 34:18.850] And most importantly of Locksport International and Locksport organizations in general provide a legitimate channel for our growth of our hobby. [34:19.350 --> 34:26.190] And, you know, we want to change the social climate and the different aspects that are preventing the growth of our hobby. [34:26.190 --> 34:31.170] And by joining and supporting organizations like ours, we can do that. [34:33.050 --> 34:33.490] So... [34:33.490 --> 34:41.930] On the way in, when I flew out of Newport News, I was stopped at the security gate when I was carrying my locks. [34:42.090 --> 34:46.050] I had UPS my picks, but I still had, you know, a decent amount of locks on me. [34:46.630 --> 34:48.690] TSA was pretty interested, but that's standard. [34:48.990 --> 34:54.150] But then the local police asked me, what do you do when I collect locks? [34:54.650 --> 34:56.350] Is that all you're doing with them? [34:57.430 --> 34:59.190] The answer was, yes, officer. [35:01.470 --> 35:04.470] But the real answer was, no, not at all. [35:04.510 --> 35:05.930] I open locks and this is what I do. [35:07.230 --> 35:09.510] He specifically asked me, do you have any tools? [35:10.250 --> 35:12.290] And I would have to ask you for your license if you did. [35:12.430 --> 35:13.330] And that's bullshit. [35:14.150 --> 35:18.310] These things don't harm anybody in the hands of responsible people. [35:18.650 --> 35:26.370] I think that the law should impose more restrictions on if you actually get caught doing something bad. [35:26.510 --> 35:29.870] Because the vast majority of us that have these tools are completely ethical. [35:30.390 --> 35:33.650] And locks for organizations are the way to make that climate change. [35:36.250 --> 35:37.030] Thanks, guys. [35:44.740 --> 35:47.960] If you have a question, then we'll give you some picks. [35:49.060 --> 35:54.940] We'll also be selling a set of picks in the Locksport Village. [35:55.080 --> 35:55.760] I'll show you here real quick. [36:00.260 --> 36:00.880] Go ahead, sir. [36:01.220 --> 36:02.020] I'll make a comment. [36:03.100 --> 36:04.140] I'm Mark Tobias. [36:04.280 --> 36:09.680] We're giving a speech at 6 o'clock this evening also on Medeco and layers of complexity. [36:09.680 --> 36:25.820] And I think John ought to be congratulated for pushing Medeco over the top to implement ARX pins, which should have been done about 15 years ago when a very sophisticated tool was developed over in England for breaking these locks. [36:26.700 --> 36:31.280] You also need to understand that ARX pins are not the end of the story. [36:32.000 --> 36:32.820] Not at all. [36:32.820 --> 36:40.180] They will render John's tool ineffective because you can't probe the base of the pin. [36:40.880 --> 36:42.000] But if... [36:42.640 --> 36:48.920] We introduced our new book today for everybody on opening Medeco locks. [36:49.080 --> 36:53.140] It's a very detailed treatise, and we're going to talk about it at 6 o'clock. [36:53.240 --> 36:57.140] But you need to understand this is the beginning of the story, not the end of the story. [36:57.140 --> 36:59.440] These locks are still vulnerable. [36:59.840 --> 37:02.760] It's just they're vulnerable to different types of techniques. [37:03.140 --> 37:06.420] But my co-author is here, Tobias Bluzmanis. [37:07.400 --> 37:09.760] Some of our other research team is here. [37:11.480 --> 37:14.580] Toby's best time... I'm not as good at picking locks as Toby is. [37:14.700 --> 37:18.280] Toby's best time is 27 seconds for a 6-pin lock. [37:18.280 --> 37:21.960] And so, this is really not the end of the story. [37:21.980 --> 37:29.100] And if you guys are interested in how Medecos work, and what we're talking on at 6 o'clock is layers of complexity. [37:29.320 --> 37:32.280] And how a manufacturer can get themselves into trouble. [37:32.600 --> 37:37.120] The more complex you make things, just like software, the more potential for bugs. [37:37.620 --> 37:39.400] And the more potential for exploits. [37:40.880 --> 37:46.480] We have supported Locksport in the media for quite some time and been very vocal. [37:46.480 --> 37:50.080] The locksmiths, and I'm a member of their organization for a long time. [37:50.400 --> 37:55.340] They do not, in the main, like Locksport because they think it's a threat. [37:55.600 --> 38:00.920] It's not a threat, and this is not a criminal hacking enterprise. [38:01.840 --> 38:02.920] This is really... [38:03.800 --> 38:07.140] Locksport community, in my view, is not just opening locks. [38:07.360 --> 38:13.960] It's teaching how to think differently and outside the box, and how to analyze vulnerabilities. [38:14.640 --> 38:16.420] Every lock looks perfect. [38:16.700 --> 38:21.360] But it isn't perfect, and it's the best intellectual and mechanical chess game going. [38:21.640 --> 38:25.760] So we would urge you, come to the Lock Picking Village. [38:26.040 --> 38:28.280] John's going to be there, Barry Wells, Han Faye. [38:28.820 --> 38:31.420] My partner will be there, Matt Fiddler, myself. [38:32.060 --> 38:33.860] And we'll be glad to answer questions. [38:33.940 --> 38:36.680] Everybody's going to demonstrate on Medeco and other locks. [38:37.020 --> 38:41.140] We're glad you guys are interested in this, and we would encourage you to pursue it. [38:41.140 --> 38:42.860] Okay, thank you. [38:42.860 --> 38:43.220] Thanks a lot, John. [38:43.620 --> 38:44.080] Thank you, Mark. [38:44.340 --> 38:44.880] Thank you. [38:45.820 --> 38:46.300] Yes, sir. [38:46.900 --> 38:49.000] Why can't you set the pins to pick to the sidebar? [38:54.620 --> 38:55.240] What'd you say? [38:55.740 --> 38:56.940] Why can't you set the pins to pick to the sidebar? [38:57.140 --> 38:57.860] What'd you say? [38:58.340 --> 39:00.500] It's all to do with the tolerances and the lock. [39:01.360 --> 39:06.160] You can, is the interesting part, and that's the basis for a lot of Mark's book. [39:06.700 --> 39:08.820] It's setting the code first and then picking to shear. [39:09.080 --> 39:13.140] My approach is to pick to shear first and then do the sidebar. [39:14.180 --> 39:17.020] The way you can choose is the interesting thing. [39:17.160 --> 39:20.460] If you do clockwise tension, the shear line will set first. [39:20.580 --> 39:21.840] You have to lift them and then rotate them. [39:22.100 --> 39:27.220] But if you tension counterclockwise in almost every case, you can set the sidebar first. [39:27.400 --> 39:29.040] So they basically give you your pick. [39:29.980 --> 39:31.200] Whatever is easiest for you. [39:31.980 --> 39:32.540] Yes, sir. [39:32.540 --> 39:36.940] Okay, I missed the first few minutes, so forgive me if this is a repeat question. [39:39.120 --> 39:44.620] But it's been touched on a couple of times about the legality, you know, and do you have a license for your tools? [39:44.940 --> 39:53.520] I'm just wondering, you know, what is the licensing and the legal sort of atmosphere surrounding owning these tools? [39:53.620 --> 39:56.040] Is it something that's done at a federal level? [39:56.060 --> 39:57.880] Is it done at a state-by-state level? [39:58.320 --> 40:06.180] And if it's state-by-state, where can you go to inquire about this without, for example, you know, getting yourself on a watch list? [40:07.940 --> 40:09.320] It is state-by-state. [40:09.540 --> 40:10.960] There aren't any federal laws that I'm aware of. [40:11.020 --> 40:18.020] I think there's some for shipping locksmithing tools to people that are not bonafide locksmiths, but that term is pretty loose. [40:18.020 --> 40:21.000] But all the legislation basically comes down to state and local level. [40:21.640 --> 40:27.220] For example, in New York City, I believe it is illegal to own pigs without a license, which is pretty interesting. [40:28.220 --> 40:29.900] The police would have a field day in here, no? [40:32.420 --> 40:34.560] But how can you do it safely and effectively? [40:34.860 --> 40:36.860] I would just, I would say check the legislation. [40:37.240 --> 40:37.740] John, I didn't know that. [40:38.240 --> 40:39.220] I didn't know that. [40:40.860 --> 40:43.880] I think you said earlier that your memory is sometimes faulty. [40:44.160 --> 40:45.220] It's probably L.A. [40:46.680 --> 40:47.500] Thank you. [40:47.840 --> 40:52.460] If you want to find out more information about that, you can go to lockpicking101.com. [40:52.640 --> 40:56.080] And there are many threads about the different laws of the different states. [40:57.220 --> 41:05.880] Most states, there are no laws about owning lockpicks besides having them with a criminal intent. [41:07.220 --> 41:12.620] So, there are very few states about legislation against owning lockpicks in general. [41:16.670 --> 41:18.910] This is kind of on the same topic here. [41:19.050 --> 41:22.750] I had actually attempted to go to a locksmith and ask if I could purchase a set of pigs from him. [41:22.890 --> 41:26.330] And he actually told me that they were considered burglary tools in New York State. [41:26.510 --> 41:30.010] And the only way to possess them would be to be a licensed locksmith. [41:30.230 --> 41:34.330] And then when I asked him how I would become one, he kind of shut down on that. [41:34.530 --> 41:37.650] I was just wondering, do you know, what's the process to become licensed? [41:39.230 --> 41:42.250] I would say check the websites for your local, for your state. [41:43.010 --> 41:45.690] I'm not an expert on that because I'm not licensed myself. [41:46.430 --> 41:47.390] Don't tell anyone. [41:49.030 --> 41:55.670] But I find that locksmiths tend to know less about the laws and even the locks than the hobbyists do. [41:55.850 --> 41:56.130] Okay. [41:56.290 --> 41:57.070] These days, anyway. [41:57.370 --> 42:02.050] I was wondering if maybe even having a membership card in your organization would be enough to say, Hey, here's my card. [42:02.270 --> 42:03.670] You know, does this qualify as a license? [42:03.890 --> 42:04.930] I mean... [42:04.930 --> 42:05.290] No. [42:05.490 --> 42:05.650] No? [42:05.790 --> 42:05.970] Okay. [42:07.510 --> 42:09.230] But it might be enough to trick somebody. [42:09.230 --> 42:09.930] It does help. [42:10.110 --> 42:10.390] Okay. [42:10.870 --> 42:12.530] It could get you out of a situation. [42:12.730 --> 42:15.190] You guys have never talked to lawyers or anything about this? [42:16.570 --> 42:32.230] I talked to a burglary lawyer once and he said that based on Virginia law, where possession without license is prima facie evidence of intent to commit robbery, larceny, etc., which is a felony, he said that there's nothing he could really do for me now, [42:32.270 --> 42:34.690] but if I ever got arrested, he might be able to bail me out and give me his card. [42:35.670 --> 42:49.770] The thing is, is that it's never been a problem because the members that we have in our organization have been respectful on the level that they've never been in trouble with their lockpicking kits and we've just, you know, we've never had that problem. [42:50.170 --> 42:52.370] It has yet to be tested and we're waiting for the day. [42:53.070 --> 42:54.070] I don't want to be that person. [42:54.310 --> 42:54.610] All right. [42:55.070 --> 42:55.330] Thank you. [42:58.480 --> 43:00.500] So I sort of have a two-part question. [43:00.860 --> 43:05.160] One is these ARX locks, are they... [43:05.840 --> 43:07.940] Medeco, I take it, this is all recent. [43:08.960 --> 43:13.160] When will we find locks in stores with ARX? [43:13.960 --> 43:20.100] The last time that I talked to Medeco, they have said that they are coming off the assembly line right now fixed. [43:20.460 --> 43:21.620] That's the word I got. [43:21.620 --> 43:24.920] I have not gone to a Medeco locksmith yet to confirm that. [43:25.760 --> 43:30.960] And I think it would be a good idea to do so soon because I want to find out if they're telling the truth or not. [43:31.280 --> 43:33.320] And can I just ask the second part real quick? [43:33.520 --> 43:33.720] Certainly. [43:35.000 --> 43:37.620] What effect does this have with regard to bumping? [43:38.720 --> 43:39.720] Ooh, with bumping. [43:39.880 --> 43:42.100] That's a good question for Mr. Mark Tobias. [43:42.600 --> 43:46.520] He is the Medeco bumping guru at the moment. [43:51.450 --> 43:58.450] To answer the first part of your question real quick, the new pin kits are already in the new Medeco catalog. [43:59.970 --> 44:00.370] Okay. [44:00.690 --> 44:02.030] Well, let me address a couple of things. [44:02.190 --> 44:05.110] First of all, ARX pins have been available since 1994. [44:06.410 --> 44:08.750] They chose not to implement them because they're expensive. [44:09.110 --> 44:12.110] And so they sold them, but they didn't implement them for free. [44:12.690 --> 44:30.410] Now, if they implement them for free, I just wrote two editorials on our blog, in.security.org, that addresses this issue and John's Medecoder and the whole issue of responsible disclosure and liability and who's going to pay for all this. [44:30.570 --> 44:43.870] So the real question is, what happens to the millions and millions and millions of locks that are out there that Medeco has known about this problem for at least 15 years, if not 30, and not addressed it as part of their standard locks? [44:44.490 --> 44:45.750] That's the first issue. [44:45.750 --> 45:01.330] To answer your question about bumping, I can tell you, and we'll probably demonstrate at Lockpicking Village, we can demonstrate, and it's in our book, bumping Medeco cylinders with ARX pins. [45:01.630 --> 45:07.950] This is why I made my comment, ARX pins do not exactly solve the problem. [45:08.110 --> 45:22.270] They make it a lot more difficult, but for pre-December 2007 Medeco locks, we developed four keys that will allow picking and bumping of virtually all of them. [45:24.110 --> 45:29.110] After December 2007, they added 2500 sidebar codes. [45:29.310 --> 45:33.190] So then we have up to 16 keys, but those are drastically reduced. [45:33.390 --> 45:46.030] It's all documented in the book, but what I'm telling you is, four keys for most every lock that's made by Medeco in the world that are non-master keyed, can be picked and bumped with the use of those four keys. [45:46.630 --> 45:49.370] And so, this is... it's a great puzzle. [45:49.550 --> 45:51.950] It's the beginning of the story, but it's not the end of the story. [45:53.830 --> 45:54.330] Thank you. [45:54.350 --> 45:54.770] Thank you, Mark. [45:55.030 --> 45:56.070] Definitely don't miss that talk. [45:56.750 --> 45:57.370] Thank you. [46:00.550 --> 46:00.950] Hi. [46:02.250 --> 46:06.130] What lock brands would you recommend to lock your own homes and silver rooms? [46:07.350 --> 46:16.270] Interestingly enough, I currently have a piece of shit master keyed Schlage on my front door, because my apartment won't let me install a mortise, which is insane. [46:17.150 --> 46:25.190] But I would recommend right now the Schlage Primus is a very good lock, although that's my current project right now is to break Primus. [46:26.650 --> 46:32.250] Beyond that, the EVA MCS is... I don't think it's going to be open anytime soon, personally. [46:32.990 --> 46:37.110] It uses embedded magnets through sidebars. [46:37.470 --> 46:39.970] There's a lot more to security than just the lock. [46:41.350 --> 46:47.090] Chances are, the burglars that break into your home are not going to open the lock unless they're, you know, a government agency. [46:47.850 --> 46:48.070] Sure. [46:48.330 --> 46:48.470] Okay. [46:51.230 --> 46:51.890] All right. [46:52.030 --> 46:53.710] I have two quick questions. [46:53.710 --> 46:57.170] The first one, there's been a lot of talk about this is the beginning of the road. [46:57.830 --> 47:07.270] The first question is, has anyone... and I'm sorry if this is already been discussed, but has anyone posited an idea for breaking these... or picking these new locks with the ARX pins? [47:07.990 --> 47:10.470] Has there been any theories or...? [47:10.470 --> 47:18.910] With the ARX, that's been... most of Mark's devices techniques do not rely on the open sidebar groove. [47:18.910 --> 47:21.850] Can you... do you still have that open? [47:23.630 --> 47:26.990] There was... there was one... there we go. [47:27.110 --> 47:27.350] Go back. [47:28.170 --> 47:28.530] Go back. [47:29.830 --> 47:30.290] All right. [47:30.490 --> 47:32.530] This is one of the... this is not ARX again. [47:32.650 --> 47:33.770] This is the predecessor to it. [47:34.030 --> 47:35.470] This is not a biaxial pin. [47:35.590 --> 47:42.450] The only difference with biaxial and original is that the tip of the pin and thus the cuts in the key are shifted forward or aft. [47:42.450 --> 47:45.130] It doesn't affect the picking aspect of it at all. [47:45.250 --> 47:46.150] It still works identically. [47:46.590 --> 47:50.250] But you'll see there's a false groove going along the pin there. [47:50.490 --> 47:54.470] It goes all the way through on a lot of these ARX pins. [47:56.290 --> 48:06.070] And one method to getting them open if the rain groove is closed off, get a really, really, really, really thin wire and manipulate it that way. [48:06.070 --> 48:08.470] I've had a limited success with that. [48:08.810 --> 48:10.230] It is possible. [48:10.870 --> 48:13.310] And that's one way to defeat them. [48:14.210 --> 48:17.770] Other than that, we're just going to have to wait for Mark's book and see what he comes up with. [48:17.970 --> 48:18.090] Thank you. [48:18.090 --> 48:19.370] You can also do it manually, by the way. [48:19.550 --> 48:23.910] You can rotate the pins with a hook if you have the manual dexterity to do so. [48:24.310 --> 48:26.030] And the second question was just answered. [48:26.270 --> 48:26.750] Thank you. [48:27.250 --> 48:27.410] No. [48:27.690 --> 48:28.010] Thank you. [48:29.270 --> 48:32.850] What material are the pins and the medical locks made from? [48:34.070 --> 48:34.790] Say again? [48:35.130 --> 48:37.930] What's the material the pins are made from? [48:38.170 --> 48:42.890] And why are the ARX pins so difficult to manufacture or expensive? [48:43.470 --> 48:49.070] The normal pins are made from either brass, they're also using steel, or I believe hardened inserts. [48:50.170 --> 48:56.470] ARX is difficult to manufacture because they implement all kinds of little changes. [48:56.470 --> 48:59.510] And apparently it's not easy to do that just off the line. [48:59.990 --> 49:02.650] You see there's all kinds of little serrations and whatnot. [49:04.790 --> 49:09.750] And apparently it takes a lot longer to do that than to just, you know, broach a slot down the pin. [49:10.310 --> 49:17.710] And whether or not that is significant enough to not standardize, I don't think it's significant enough, the cost. [49:17.830 --> 49:19.630] I think it needs to be secure and that's the point. [49:19.850 --> 49:24.550] I'm also curious if magnetism could be used to manipulate or torque the pins to turn them. [49:25.790 --> 49:26.190] Possibly. [49:26.730 --> 49:29.350] That's an angle we haven't explored yet. [49:30.230 --> 49:31.950] But it's something to look out for. [49:32.210 --> 49:34.310] But keep in mind, a lot of these pins are going to be brass. [49:35.110 --> 49:36.750] Which, I mean, can you magnetize brass? [49:36.930 --> 49:37.270] I'm not sure. [49:38.110 --> 49:38.490] Thank you. [49:38.610 --> 49:39.450] One more question. [49:39.630 --> 49:39.730] Thank you. [49:40.850 --> 49:41.210] Hi guys. [49:41.330 --> 49:43.690] First of all, the Lockpicking 101. [49:44.070 --> 49:44.490] Excellent. [49:45.170 --> 49:46.050] Longtime lurker. [49:46.970 --> 49:48.810] Manipulating a Medeco with a proper tool. [49:49.350 --> 49:51.050] I've had luck with four pins. [49:51.210 --> 49:52.430] You know, kind of simplifying it down. [49:52.670 --> 49:55.730] And after half an hour and getting it once, I'm like, hey, I did it. [49:56.470 --> 49:56.710] Nice. [49:57.210 --> 50:00.330] So congratulations on actually making a tool that makes it easy. [50:00.770 --> 50:01.110] Thank you. [50:01.370 --> 50:02.510] I start off the same way. [50:02.510 --> 50:05.130] I picked up Medeco Pay Foam Lock, the four pin. [50:05.390 --> 50:05.490] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [50:05.670 --> 50:07.710] And I opened it and I'm like, this took way too long. [50:07.830 --> 50:08.830] There's got to be a better way. [50:09.230 --> 50:09.370] Yeah. [50:09.450 --> 50:11.730] And those were impressive because they're really tough pins. [50:11.930 --> 50:15.730] Now, the question is, you're picking it first, then going through. [50:15.730 --> 50:17.350] You picked that the first thing. [50:17.430 --> 50:20.090] You set the shear line very quickly. [50:20.290 --> 50:20.830] Oh, thank you. [50:20.930 --> 50:22.030] Those pins are evil. [50:24.170 --> 50:29.510] The serrated top ones, and then the serrated bottom pins, and then the mushroom spool? [50:30.010 --> 50:30.830] What the hell? [50:31.570 --> 50:33.270] I'm actually a horrible lock picker. [50:33.490 --> 50:34.330] Okay, so is... [50:34.330 --> 50:35.230] It's not true. [50:35.570 --> 50:36.030] Is it just... [50:36.030 --> 50:38.910] When you're picking them, is it similar to other ones? [50:39.010 --> 50:43.390] Picking a Medeco to shear before you set the sidebar is exactly like picking a normal lock. [50:43.390 --> 50:47.930] I find the mushrooms are actually easier than, say, like a normal spool pin. [50:48.090 --> 50:48.210] Yeah. [50:49.130 --> 50:51.470] You can feel it coming out of the false set. [50:51.810 --> 50:53.690] It picks exactly like a regular lock. [50:53.850 --> 50:58.750] I'm almost inclined to give the lock to this fellow who won the speed competition at DEFCON. [50:59.710 --> 51:00.730] That's not true either. [51:02.270 --> 51:03.690] That was Scholar Town, I'm sorry. [51:04.170 --> 51:04.790] Well, with the... [51:04.790 --> 51:05.070] Anyway. [51:05.390 --> 51:08.090] With the sidebar, I know it's not that hard, but it does take a long time. [51:08.290 --> 51:09.490] And I just find that... [51:09.490 --> 51:12.430] I mean, the tension for security pins is a lot more difficult. [51:12.790 --> 51:13.150] Certainly. [51:13.710 --> 51:14.830] And just one other thing. [51:15.450 --> 51:15.810] If... [51:15.810 --> 51:18.390] Let's say you had a bunch of these things installed in your facility. [51:18.810 --> 51:23.430] Couldn't you just buy one ARX pin and stick it somewhere randomly inside? [51:23.630 --> 51:25.990] And that would defeat most people trying to manipulate this technique? [51:26.290 --> 51:28.390] Well, most people is a relative term, you know. [51:28.550 --> 51:30.570] Normal pickers, if there's a Medeco, they ain't gonna get through it. [51:30.830 --> 51:34.750] But even so, if you just install one ARX pin, the other five pins are vulnerable. [51:34.930 --> 51:37.670] And, you know, I'm willing to rake the last pin if I really want to get in. [51:38.850 --> 51:42.110] Yeah, if you know how the technique works, then someone's gonna definitely take advantage. [51:42.410 --> 51:42.930] Alright, excellent. [51:43.110 --> 51:43.450] Thank you. [51:43.650 --> 51:43.850] Thank you. [51:43.850 --> 51:44.410] See you in the village. [51:50.440 --> 51:52.220] We do have picks for sale. [51:52.500 --> 51:52.980] Thanks.