[00:01.660 --> 00:13.060]  So, scuttle.net is our domain for the IRC network, and then fb.2600.chat is a short URL I have for our Facebook group, which we'll figure out why the hell 2600 has a Facebook group, right?
[00:14.360 --> 00:16.420]  Okay, so who we are, five Ws.
[00:16.560 --> 00:17.920]  My name is Andrew Strudeluset.
[00:17.980 --> 00:18.900]  I also have my friend D.
[00:19.020 --> 00:22.760]  Claw, a long associate of mine who I trust with the IRC network.
[00:22.760 --> 00:29.000]  I also have Daniel Baldor, who's our Mexican embassy component.
[00:29.240 --> 00:34.100]  He's actually AFK this time, and Tim Banish from our Facebook group and IRC.
[00:34.380 --> 00:42.520]  So, there's others past and present, and we always remember them and are thankful for everything that they did to participate in our community, okay?
[00:42.540 --> 00:49.420]  I'm not going to get into the diamond models or the TTPs and MITRE ATT&CK frameworks.
[00:50.060 --> 00:55.140]  I'd like to get into force protection conditions, but I can't, and I won't bring up our last nine line that we had.
[00:55.300 --> 00:56.920]  And it's not about MERC chat.
[00:57.100 --> 01:00.280]  It's actually about the IRC protocol and so on.
[01:03.100 --> 01:03.900]  So, disclaimers.
[01:04.120 --> 01:07.420]  We don't represent our current employers or previous employers.
[01:07.420 --> 01:10.320]  We're going to cover a long time span that we've all been associated with this.
[01:10.360 --> 01:11.460]  I just want to put that out there.
[01:11.600 --> 01:15.280]  We also don't represent the magazine in any direct capacity.
[01:15.300 --> 01:16.180]  We're volunteers.
[01:16.740 --> 01:22.520]  We just curate and help the community for this IRC network, and I'll let you know how that happened.
[01:23.320 --> 01:26.400]  I want to talk about our motivations, why we do this.
[01:26.400 --> 01:28.840]  Also, where we're going in the future.
[01:29.020 --> 01:32.420]  What we'd like to see versus, like, maybe what the users want to see.
[01:32.820 --> 01:33.560]  Stuff like that.
[01:33.800 --> 01:42.220]  So, also the history, why these came into existence, and also it's all about our greatest resources, users, and all the communities out there.
[01:44.880 --> 01:46.480]  So, it's kind of funny.
[01:46.800 --> 01:50.560]  It started... Like, here's the big bullets of how it started a long time ago.
[01:51.360 --> 01:56.020]  There is many different places that 2600 resided.
[01:56.400 --> 02:00.460]  But these are the major things that happened to us in the history of 2600Net.
[02:01.260 --> 02:06.480]  I also have other friends that experienced some of these things, and it also made the network what it is today.
[02:06.480 --> 02:07.480]  We're resilient.
[02:07.700 --> 02:08.960]  We're secure.
[02:10.220 --> 02:11.820]  We never had a breach.
[02:12.160 --> 02:14.600]  You know, talk about that a little bit more.
[02:15.680 --> 02:17.240]  So yeah, what does this mean?
[02:17.460 --> 02:18.400]  How did this happen?
[02:18.960 --> 02:20.340]  It was kind of silly.
[02:21.220 --> 02:27.060]  As I remember it, back in the late 90s, you know, 2600 was all over the place.
[02:27.060 --> 02:31.880]  And I remember this event, and I remember the post on 2600.
[02:32.180 --> 02:34.280]  I couldn't find it in the Wayback Machine.
[02:34.820 --> 02:39.520]  But for some reason, I believe it was Fnet, Emmanuel was banned from 2600.
[02:39.660 --> 02:44.040]  And he said, hey, since 2600 can't be on these IRC networks, let's make our own network.
[02:44.200 --> 02:45.260]  And that was long before me.
[02:45.760 --> 02:51.040]  I got involved, like, in 2003-ish, 2004-ish, and so on.
[02:51.040 --> 02:55.040]  And then after, like, many DDoSs and so on, they came back, and that's when I got involved.
[02:55.280 --> 03:05.820]  Okay, so more when we were involved in our current team, over a decade of stability, we helped start the other IRC network, Hackint.
[03:06.220 --> 03:10.240]  They were connected to us when they started from, you know, we all started small and so on.
[03:10.320 --> 03:12.240]  And as we grew up, they grew up and so on.
[03:12.400 --> 03:13.640]  So kind of interesting there.
[03:13.860 --> 03:21.780]  Also, we used to have a significant segment of the Chaos VPN, which was a lot of fun, and numerous other communities over the last 25 years have been a part of this.
[03:23.380 --> 03:23.820]  Yeah.
[03:26.520 --> 03:36.220]  So, this was the post that I could find, where after, I think it was like two years, they were DDoS for like months and months and months.
[03:36.420 --> 03:40.040]  The hosters gave up on it, and they said, we're not going to do this IRC stuff anymore.
[03:40.460 --> 03:42.700]  And so, but some people brought it back.
[03:42.700 --> 03:48.340]  And that's around the era that I got involved and started chatting on the network.
[03:48.520 --> 03:50.240]  It was after I was raided by the cops.
[03:50.300 --> 03:54.900]  I didn't realize I was a dirty hacker or bad or doing anything wrong until I was raided by the cops.
[03:54.940 --> 04:02.180]  And I was like, well, if anyone would know what I'm going through, it was probably these 2600 folks, because I had read the magazine as a kid and so on.
[04:02.220 --> 04:03.520]  So I started getting on IRC.
[04:04.000 --> 04:06.320]  So, anyways, that was the post I could find.
[04:06.320 --> 04:13.640]  I couldn't find the old post through the Wayback Machine of where the original, original IRC network after the big banning happened.
[04:13.820 --> 04:15.320]  I couldn't find that, but I found this.
[04:16.340 --> 04:21.680]  So, after we hosted it for, I would say, let's say a couple years.
[04:21.680 --> 04:22.640]  We were involved.
[04:22.820 --> 04:28.500]  It was Zai, Shardy, Carton, myself, and a handful of others that were doing different components.
[04:28.620 --> 04:30.940]  And there was this one guy who hosted our hub.
[04:30.940 --> 04:33.120]  We were using Hybrid 6, I think, at the time.
[04:33.120 --> 04:42.400]  And we couldn't, after long debates of trying to maintain the network, secure the network, keep it operational, we couldn't identify who this guy was that hosted the hub.
[04:42.580 --> 04:44.400]  It all kind of made us feel weird.
[04:44.560 --> 04:48.400]  And, you know, we understand how hackers want the privacy and so on.
[04:48.460 --> 04:49.640]  But it was like, it's the hub.
[04:49.740 --> 04:50.920]  It's where everything connects to.
[04:51.060 --> 04:54.460]  And a hub, spoke hub, spoke wheel type network topology.
[04:55.440 --> 04:58.540]  So we agreed, well, that doesn't fit right.
[04:58.720 --> 05:01.180]  You know, we got to know who that person is, right?
[05:01.180 --> 05:06.100]  Like, we don't need their docs, like, between, like, me and you, hacker to hacker.
[05:06.280 --> 05:07.460]  Like, I should be able to know who you are.
[05:07.560 --> 05:08.460]  I've met you at a conference.
[05:08.660 --> 05:10.020]  I've shook your hands and so on.
[05:10.080 --> 05:11.020]  So I digress on that.
[05:11.180 --> 05:12.840]  We ejected them out of the network.
[05:13.000 --> 05:13.740]  We rebuilt it.
[05:13.900 --> 05:16.640]  We standardized on two pieces of software.
[05:16.860 --> 05:20.400]  RCD hybrid, which has been very secure, and an OP for services.
[05:20.400 --> 05:25.980]  One thing that came about was my dog.
[05:27.300 --> 05:30.780]  So the policy became no unknowns.
[05:30.960 --> 05:33.280]  And we rebuilt, documented.
[05:33.540 --> 05:36.760]  We established at Scuttle.net, since it was like a pirate network.
[05:38.340 --> 05:42.480]  And community hub and services hosted by us.
[05:42.620 --> 05:45.120]  And leafs and connections all hosted by us.
[05:45.120 --> 06:00.180]  So one of the funny things that I did through my work, and so on, I've had the opportunity to work all over the defense industry, the defense industrial base, and with DARPA, and working mostly with research and development and cybersecurity operations.
[06:01.040 --> 06:01.180]  Okay?
[06:01.400 --> 06:05.260]  So I knew about this host a long time ago.
[06:05.280 --> 06:10.580]  And if you look at the history for it, and I can't confirm or deny any of this in this type of environment.
[06:10.800 --> 06:11.640]  But I'll say this.
[06:11.880 --> 06:25.300]  When we built the configuration for Scuttle.net, for the new IRC network, I put in the configuration that if anyone connected from a .mil or .gov, IRCD spec will do a redirect to another host.
[06:25.520 --> 06:31.320]  So I put it in there to redirect everyone to that host, which is a real host.
[06:31.440 --> 06:36.000]  It's had the same IP address, the same A record longer than I've been on the Internet.
[06:36.000 --> 06:45.240]  So anyways, funny as that, through my opportunities and through my travels through work, and just going to other conferences and so on, they noticed.
[06:45.440 --> 06:47.540]  Someone mentioned it and said, yeah, that was kind of funny.
[06:47.780 --> 06:48.920]  You still have that in there?
[06:49.080 --> 06:59.860]  And it didn't cause any problems or anything, but they noticed that occasionally, if someone from work ever tried to get to chat with 2600 people, they would get redirected back to Gary Seven.
[07:01.080 --> 07:02.080]  I thought it was funny.
[07:02.780 --> 07:08.220]  Okay, so there was another big era after we hosted it for a long time.
[07:08.540 --> 07:11.540]  I had actually, as a defense contractor, deployed.
[07:11.540 --> 07:13.960]  I worked in a very high-threat environment.
[07:15.100 --> 07:19.460]  So I had been working in very strange environments doing cybersecurity.
[07:19.560 --> 07:32.080]  So I was very conscientious of all the stuff that we could experience as a hacker community and so on, and it actually came down to it, where some of that intersected the IRC network and myself.
[07:32.460 --> 07:44.320]  So one of the things that I tried to do when I came back from overseas, being conscientious of this, I tried to get us to all, like, put together a warrant canary, so that we could all establish some more trust and some more transparency and so on.
[07:44.400 --> 07:54.100]  And what happened is that several of us were on board with it, and several of us did not want to participate, and it made me wonder, but I didn't want to create any waves.
[07:54.280 --> 07:55.060]  Some of them are friends.
[07:55.240 --> 07:58.040]  Some of them, you know, I just left it sit.
[07:58.220 --> 08:05.360]  And I shouldn't have let it sit for so long, but we still had good control over the crypto, our TLS certs, our private keys, and so on.
[08:05.400 --> 08:07.340]  I didn't feel that we had much risk on it.
[08:07.420 --> 08:08.780]  But it was something that we failed at.
[08:08.860 --> 08:11.100]  This is part of our successes and our failures, right?
[08:11.420 --> 08:15.100]  So this is one thing that we talked about doing even more, was to fix some of this stuff.
[08:15.100 --> 08:20.800]  So in 2014 era, and another 10 years after this, a bunch of stuff happened.
[08:21.120 --> 08:22.340]  WikiLeaks intersected.
[08:23.480 --> 08:24.520]  That was exciting.
[08:24.720 --> 08:33.660]  I had a couple shell servers out there that were mine and owned, had nothing to do with the IRC network, but people that chatted on the IRC network used the shell servers.
[08:33.840 --> 08:35.380]  Totally in a different environment now.
[08:35.540 --> 08:36.820]  Shell servers, you can get anywhere.
[08:36.980 --> 08:38.480]  You can get a VPS, a light sale.
[08:38.880 --> 08:40.940]  Back then, it was very valuable.
[08:41.080 --> 08:44.560]  I provided free web hosts, free shells, free email, all that stuff.
[08:45.460 --> 08:49.940]  Unbeknownst to me, someone threw Pinky, since I'm the rodent, Pinky in the brain.
[08:50.440 --> 08:52.620]  Pinky, they used it to support WikiLeaks.
[08:52.820 --> 08:56.140]  And so, okay, I knew nothing about it.
[08:56.280 --> 09:02.020]  It complicated all kinds of stuff for the IRC network, for my life, for my line of work, and so on.
[09:02.420 --> 09:03.740]  I went to the EFF.
[09:06.860 --> 09:07.760]  There were no help.
[09:08.900 --> 09:09.480]  That's all.
[09:12.200 --> 09:13.800]  We had a...
[09:15.640 --> 09:20.600]  I think that this one is kind of funny, and I want to set the record straight on this one, and I'll be very strategic on this one, okay?
[09:20.720 --> 09:21.860]  Because I like the guy.
[09:21.980 --> 09:27.020]  We have very different opinions, but that's part of what the hacker community is about.
[09:27.020 --> 09:28.760]  I don't care what political spectrum you are.
[09:28.760 --> 09:29.540]  We're all friends here.
[09:29.640 --> 09:30.620]  We're all on the same team, right?
[09:30.820 --> 09:34.460]  So we had this incident where someone had gotten themselves busted, right?
[09:34.640 --> 09:37.580]  And I had warned them, just saying, hey, that's bad OPSEC.
[09:37.700 --> 09:40.940]  You know, maybe you might want to consider some of your other risk elements here, so on.
[09:41.280 --> 09:43.440]  And I can help you on the IRC network.
[09:43.440 --> 09:48.580]  If you do a private channel and so on with RTLS cert, I can promise you it's going to be secure.
[09:48.900 --> 09:50.400]  And no one's logging you and so on.
[09:50.440 --> 09:51.440]  We don't log nothing, right?
[09:51.600 --> 09:52.500]  So we'll get into that.
[09:52.500 --> 09:55.040]  So what happened is the guy got himself busted, right?
[09:55.160 --> 10:04.760]  And it came out through his court cases many years later that it was a private IRC server that Sabu had enticed him on and they got busted, so on.
[10:04.980 --> 10:12.680]  The point was people in the community and so on, they said that it was our network.
[10:13.100 --> 10:16.500]  And so that we caught a lot of hash for that.
[10:16.660 --> 10:18.520]  So just setting the record straight on that.
[10:18.920 --> 10:20.180]  Anyways, we're very proud of that.
[10:20.180 --> 10:21.820]  I am that we've never been breached.
[10:21.900 --> 10:23.520]  We've never showed up in a court case.
[10:23.900 --> 10:29.020]  We've never been leveraged or compromised in a position to be a danger to the community.
[10:29.160 --> 10:30.900]  That's what I'm trying to say, right?
[10:31.200 --> 10:34.540]  Okay, so one thing that happened around this era too is Losec.
[10:34.700 --> 10:35.480]  Remember those guys?
[10:36.040 --> 10:36.480]  Crazy.
[10:36.780 --> 10:41.120]  I actually knew a few of the hackers from old school days, old MySpace days.
[10:41.680 --> 10:43.300]  Like seriously, and they were really, really young, right?
[10:43.460 --> 10:47.340]  So anyways, they showed up on the network.
[10:47.340 --> 10:50.920]  They chatted with us for a little while, and then at the end, they like...
[10:50.920 --> 10:53.420]  I talked about this in a previous talk, so I'll digress.
[10:53.420 --> 10:55.980]  In the end, they left and then DDoSed us.
[10:56.260 --> 10:58.120]  Now, I worked at DARPA at the time.
[10:58.360 --> 11:02.160]  I have to make known of my outside activities.
[11:02.520 --> 11:03.900]  Obviously, I host the chat network.
[11:03.900 --> 11:05.820]  I've written for the magazine, so on and so forth.
[11:06.100 --> 11:17.040]  One day, I'm going to work and I can plan this day, say, oh, two FBI agents and someone else come walking up and say, hey, Mr. Stratt, we'd love to ask you a couple questions.
[11:17.100 --> 11:21.400]  And I'm like, hey, I'm going to work and I'm carrying my hacker dog to work, the only DARPA dog.
[11:22.080 --> 11:23.560]  And I'm just like, hey, F you.
[11:23.760 --> 11:24.560]  Like, talk to my lawyer.
[11:25.340 --> 11:28.040]  And, you know, they're like, we just want to ask you one question.
[11:28.040 --> 11:29.080]  I'm like, all right, who are you?
[11:29.260 --> 11:32.640]  They identify, but the third person didn't want to identify himself.
[11:32.740 --> 11:34.840]  And I'm like, all right, I'll talk to you.
[11:34.860 --> 11:35.980]  I'll talk to you, but fuck you.
[11:36.860 --> 11:38.600]  But they said, one question.
[11:39.480 --> 11:45.200]  Why is the same botnet that just took down CIA.gov is DDoSing you?
[11:48.950 --> 11:51.010]  You know, I really couldn't tell you.
[11:51.330 --> 11:55.530]  You know, like, we chat with all kinds of people and the hacker community is just wild.
[11:55.530 --> 11:56.250]  And what can I say?
[11:56.610 --> 11:59.130]  You know, and I just turned around, walked into work and called my lawyer.
[11:59.370 --> 12:02.990]  So anyways, I wanted to set the record straight on that and make that transparent or known.
[12:02.990 --> 12:10.230]  Like, there's been some crazy events around stuff, but we've always managed to be uncompromised, transparent and secure and not let ourselves...
[12:10.230 --> 12:11.690]  Now, I think it's a really funny story.
[12:11.870 --> 12:14.330]  Anyway, so, the CIA DDoS.
[12:14.470 --> 12:18.370]  So one thing that happened too, people said that, like, we got breached.
[12:18.610 --> 12:23.390]  And it was an old admin who had access and he made t-shirts of our old password hashes.
[12:23.630 --> 12:27.550]  From like, I want to say almost 10 years prior.
[12:27.710 --> 12:29.010]  He had been around for a long time.
[12:29.010 --> 12:30.730]  And so Defcon is selling shirts.
[12:30.930 --> 12:32.310]  And I was like, oh, that's funny.
[12:32.430 --> 12:33.070]  I'll buy one.
[12:33.230 --> 12:33.610]  You know?
[12:33.750 --> 12:36.290]  And then people were like, oh no, you guys totally got pwned.
[12:36.510 --> 12:38.770]  And I was like, uh, hold on.
[12:38.870 --> 12:39.370]  Let me...
[12:39.370 --> 12:39.770]  What?
[12:39.930 --> 12:43.970]  And I typed it in at Defcon and gripped it through what I had.
[12:44.030 --> 12:45.590]  And I was like, oh no, this is...
[12:45.590 --> 12:46.870]  I know who did this.
[12:47.370 --> 12:48.170]  And I laughed.
[12:48.170 --> 12:48.850]  I bought some shirts.
[12:48.870 --> 12:49.610]  I still got the shirts.
[12:49.710 --> 12:50.330]  I thought it was funny.
[12:50.490 --> 12:50.930]  So I just...
[12:50.930 --> 12:52.690]  Anyways, set the record straight on that.
[12:52.770 --> 12:54.950]  People still talk smack about that saying, oh no.
[12:55.070 --> 12:55.770]  Remember when that...
[12:55.770 --> 12:56.150]  No, no, no.
[12:56.270 --> 12:56.950]  That's not what happened.
[12:56.950 --> 12:58.730]  Anyways, we've expanded.
[12:58.730 --> 12:59.670]  We have adapted.
[12:59.950 --> 13:03.250]  We've evolved to all kinds of crazy stuff that happens around us.
[13:03.330 --> 13:04.250]  Whether it's OPSEC.
[13:04.390 --> 13:06.270]  The security posture of the network.
[13:06.650 --> 13:09.030]  The way that we update and manage our crypto.
[13:09.450 --> 13:10.310]  Not cryptocurrency.
[13:10.710 --> 13:11.490]  Because no one donates.
[13:11.610 --> 13:12.730]  And I'm not asking for donations.
[13:13.150 --> 13:14.590]  But our crypto material.
[13:14.770 --> 13:15.850]  Our private keys and so on.
[13:16.330 --> 13:20.090]  One thing that we've done is always kind of been funny about pirates versus ninjas.
[13:20.490 --> 13:23.990]  We have a pirates channel that we play like kind of a mud-like game.
[13:23.990 --> 13:25.210]  And there's also idle RRP.
[13:26.550 --> 13:28.490]  There's been different groups that showed up.
[13:28.570 --> 13:29.650]  One, I'll be quick on these.
[13:30.610 --> 13:30.990]  Most...
[13:30.990 --> 13:32.410]  Oh, it's this cable here.
[13:32.590 --> 13:33.430]  I figured it out.
[13:35.470 --> 13:36.490]  These guys showed up.
[13:36.610 --> 13:37.410]  It was a group of people.
[13:37.510 --> 13:38.850]  And they wanted to be like super sly.
[13:38.970 --> 13:41.550]  Back in this area, they like talked to these sysops and us.
[13:41.690 --> 13:43.190]  Like, hey, can we chat on your network?
[13:43.630 --> 13:46.250]  And they identified themselves through this domain.
[13:46.250 --> 13:48.970]  And I never confirmed exactly what it was.
[13:49.090 --> 13:50.570]  But they were really weird in Secret Squirrel.
[13:50.790 --> 13:53.210]  And if you go on the Wayback Machine, their website is all weird.
[13:53.390 --> 13:54.030]  And they chatted.
[13:54.150 --> 13:55.530]  There was like 40 or 50 users.
[13:55.630 --> 13:58.730]  And they always had a TLS only channel, secret channel.
[13:58.870 --> 13:59.670]  They always toured.
[14:00.090 --> 14:00.410]  Always...
[14:00.410 --> 14:01.470]  Anyways, it's funny as hell.
[14:01.870 --> 14:04.450]  We've always had these scammers that come about.
[14:04.630 --> 14:07.350]  And there's this botnet that will never, ever die.
[14:07.630 --> 14:10.770]  And they joined this channel called Snap Snippity Random Number.
[14:10.770 --> 14:13.030]  And I can't figure...
[14:13.030 --> 14:13.610]  Like, I don't know.
[14:13.710 --> 14:14.350]  I used to do this.
[14:14.450 --> 14:15.390]  I still do this for a living.
[14:15.530 --> 14:17.790]  And I'm like, why is this thing not fixed yet?
[14:18.350 --> 14:22.610]  There's also some sub-7 bots that connected to us for about 15 years.
[14:22.930 --> 14:26.590]  Like, well into the 2014 era, past that almost 2020.
[14:26.810 --> 14:27.570]  It was silly.
[14:27.730 --> 14:28.210]  It's ridiculous.
[14:28.830 --> 14:31.670]  Now, what we've done, we've actually maintained...
[14:31.670 --> 14:32.990]  We've upgraded a bunch of everything.
[14:32.990 --> 14:36.910]  And it's a super complicated process because I made it complicated.
[14:37.090 --> 14:37.190]  Right?
[14:37.190 --> 14:39.050]  The network has...
[14:39.050 --> 14:47.890]  IRCD networks have a running time for how long a channel's been created, how long the network's been linked, how servers have been connected, and so on.
[14:48.190 --> 14:51.250]  Our network run time is like well over 15 years.
[14:51.390 --> 14:52.150]  I was looking through it.
[14:52.330 --> 14:56.070]  We have a channel from like 2003 and 2008.
[14:56.550 --> 14:59.210]  And then some of the recent ones that got cycled were 2012.
[14:59.750 --> 15:01.290]  And that's a network run time.
[15:01.410 --> 15:04.710]  So we've always managed to keep one server up through upgrades.
[15:04.710 --> 15:08.310]  And it's complicated as like open software can be.
[15:10.530 --> 15:15.550]  We've actually finally worked out everything as far as data at rest encryption.
[15:15.770 --> 15:19.310]  It wasn't always there because of the way that things are hosted and operated the system.
[15:19.550 --> 15:21.730]  Now we've standardized on all the tools.
[15:21.970 --> 15:23.890]  And we're confident in the way that we do it now.
[15:24.030 --> 15:27.450]  It's not going to lose everything or be a complexity issue.
[15:27.990 --> 15:29.330]  Data at rest for everything.
[15:29.330 --> 15:37.070]  So if anything gets unplugged or so on, someone has to fire the work canary, everything turns off and it's data at rest.
[15:37.230 --> 15:37.430]  Anyways.
[15:38.250 --> 15:40.870]  We want to add back Tor, I2P.
[15:41.050 --> 15:41.690]  What do you guys want?
[15:41.790 --> 15:42.970]  You guys got to tell us that stuff.
[15:43.810 --> 15:44.250]  TLS.
[15:44.550 --> 15:46.210]  We updated all the TLS.
[15:46.870 --> 15:47.710]  DNS now.
[15:47.950 --> 15:49.770]  We want to do dual horizon DNS.
[15:50.030 --> 15:54.210]  So 2600.net on one side and then Scuttle.net on one side.
[15:54.210 --> 15:57.610]  DNS with the magazine is complicated.
[15:57.870 --> 15:59.490]  As we know, DNS sucks, right?
[16:00.470 --> 16:06.830]  We've RBL, real-time blacklisting and so on for spammers and real-time scanner.
[16:07.090 --> 16:08.090]  Popular channels.
[16:09.230 --> 16:10.430]  Let me check my time.
[16:11.170 --> 16:12.490]  These are big popular channels.
[16:12.650 --> 16:13.650]  I'll check on this here.
[16:15.410 --> 16:18.830]  We're adapting and looking at different ways to moderate the channels.
[16:18.990 --> 16:24.190]  One way is to have, and by legal requirements, you have to have an age distance.
[16:24.190 --> 16:24.550]  Disclaimer.
[16:24.750 --> 16:28.810]  And you have to have 24-hour moderation if you don't do this or do that and so on.
[16:29.090 --> 16:33.450]  Some of the states are really cracking down on this stuff for age identification for over-18 content.
[16:33.630 --> 16:35.650]  And we're responsible for hosting it.
[16:35.790 --> 16:37.950]  So, not to get too deep into it.
[16:38.010 --> 16:38.970]  We can get around it.
[16:39.110 --> 16:42.030]  But anyways, pound, pound 2600 unmoderated.
[16:42.210 --> 16:51.190]  We're thinking about the general pound 2600 channel to be more of a direct conversation, always on our very broad range of topics.
[16:51.190 --> 16:54.270]  But it's no longer gonna be about...
[16:55.310 --> 16:55.750]  Yeah.
[16:56.470 --> 16:58.310]  It is a lot of trolling and so on.
[16:59.030 --> 17:03.270]  Anyways, we also have a bunch of other channels that have been around over a super long time.
[17:03.510 --> 17:04.890]  Vibrant communities that are there.
[17:06.070 --> 17:08.830]  We talked a little bit about clients before we started it.
[17:11.030 --> 17:11.870]  So, clients.
[17:12.030 --> 17:13.450]  We support all the clients.
[17:13.730 --> 17:14.810]  Bring anything you want.
[17:14.970 --> 17:15.870]  But bring it modern.
[17:16.150 --> 17:17.830]  Like BitchX's EOL.
[17:18.650 --> 17:19.530]  Don't try to use it.
[17:20.090 --> 17:21.610]  But you can use anything we want.
[17:21.690 --> 17:22.550]  We encourage bots.
[17:22.730 --> 17:24.090]  Like utility bots and so on.
[17:24.270 --> 17:26.390]  Even someone wrote an AI bot that was really cool.
[17:26.490 --> 17:27.430]  Pipes into OpenAI.
[17:27.790 --> 17:29.190]  They ran it on the main channel.
[17:29.290 --> 17:32.270]  Eventually, we're like, look, there's actually some issues around that.
[17:32.670 --> 17:33.910]  Run it in a different channel.
[17:34.050 --> 17:37.610]  We encourage you to run your channels however you want.
[17:37.610 --> 17:43.130]  We, as operators and hosters of the network, if you have a private channel, we don't care.
[17:43.310 --> 17:46.150]  If it doesn't negatively impact the network, do whatever you want in there.
[17:46.290 --> 17:46.890]  Lock it down.
[17:47.030 --> 17:47.690]  Private invite.
[17:48.190 --> 17:50.370]  Have 10,000 users connect into it.
[17:50.430 --> 17:50.970]  I don't care.
[17:51.410 --> 17:52.670]  Like, that's what it's there for, right?
[17:52.750 --> 17:57.030]  But anyways, we only put moderation into the 2600 channels.
[17:57.170 --> 17:59.870]  And that's what Emmanuel asked when it was originally chartered.
[18:00.150 --> 18:00.390]  Okay?
[18:00.510 --> 18:02.410]  When he originally said, yeah.
[18:02.530 --> 18:06.990]  And we also have a code of conduct, which was made by HOPE users or HOPE staff.
[18:06.990 --> 18:09.010]  And 2600 staff and so on.
[18:09.170 --> 18:14.870]  When that came about, we immediately implemented that on the IRC network, as far as the 2600 channels go.
[18:15.210 --> 18:16.710]  We don't care what other channels do, right?
[18:16.850 --> 18:17.270]  And so on.
[18:18.010 --> 18:19.110]  So you can see that.
[18:19.170 --> 18:20.470]  That's actually a really short URL.
[18:20.470 --> 18:21.310]  You can go read it.
[18:21.450 --> 18:23.270]  That's adapted from HOPE.
[18:23.390 --> 18:28.350]  All I did is change some words to include IRC, Facebook groups, et cetera, et cetera.
[18:28.530 --> 18:31.250]  Because we're not trying to be a different channel.
[18:31.250 --> 18:34.030]  We want to be a part of the community and service the community, right?
[18:34.430 --> 18:34.650]  Okay.
[18:35.590 --> 18:37.430]  So here's some old stats.
[18:37.710 --> 18:39.410]  Interesting, like that big peak there.
[18:39.530 --> 18:40.850]  That was like the low sec.
[18:41.090 --> 18:44.250]  It was actually more users than like the 2100.
[18:44.950 --> 18:48.570]  But it's like an average from when they sampled the network for those couple weeks, right?
[18:49.290 --> 18:51.250]  So, but we've been around longer than that.
[18:51.390 --> 18:54.970]  It's not super big, but we're still in the top 100 IRC networks.
[18:54.970 --> 18:58.510]  And we have one of the longest uptimes compared to all the other IRC networks.
[18:58.710 --> 18:59.090]  So, yay!
[18:59.370 --> 18:59.750]  Go team!
[19:02.470 --> 19:06.090]  We got a lot, a ton of cool communities and so on.
[19:06.330 --> 19:09.710]  And let me see if I can bring on some of the other folks here.
[19:09.850 --> 19:10.490]  Are you guys here?
[19:11.350 --> 19:12.170]  Yes, you are.
[19:13.570 --> 19:14.530]  Can you guys talk?
[19:16.210 --> 19:16.590]  Yeah?
[19:16.770 --> 19:17.030]  We can.
[19:17.830 --> 19:18.210]  Okay.
[19:18.450 --> 19:19.090]  Can you guys hear?
[19:19.490 --> 19:20.350]  Yeah, we can hear.
[19:20.510 --> 19:20.790]  Okay.
[19:23.980 --> 19:26.040]  I'll let the guys talk about this slide here.
[19:30.690 --> 19:32.170]  Declaw, you guys wanna...
[19:32.170 --> 19:32.990]  Oh, no!
[19:40.860 --> 19:42.060]  All right, you see the slide?
[19:42.160 --> 19:43.780]  You wanna talk through these real quick?
[19:45.940 --> 19:48.200]  No, I can't see the slide now, but I'll just...
[19:52.660 --> 19:54.100]  All right, well, I'll try to get it going.
[19:54.100 --> 19:55.120]  I'm holding the cable.
[20:04.130 --> 20:05.970]  I swear I've never had this problem before.
[20:10.000 --> 20:11.740]  Yeah, so I'll try to talk through it.
[20:11.820 --> 20:12.900]  This is our memorial slide.
[20:12.900 --> 20:17.340]  We've had a lot of users that we've chatted with for 20 plus years.
[20:17.560 --> 20:19.140]  And we're not getting any younger.
[20:19.560 --> 20:21.280]  We try to do our best to...
[20:21.280 --> 20:23.120]  When we find these, we know these.
[20:23.260 --> 20:26.340]  When it happens to us personally, is to memorialize their data.
[20:28.940 --> 20:29.460]  Yeah.
[20:33.660 --> 20:34.180]  We...
[20:34.760 --> 20:37.160]  Basically, all we do is we set no expire.
[20:38.980 --> 20:42.220]  So we hold everyone's data for two years.
[20:42.440 --> 20:44.680]  If you never log in again, everything expires.
[20:44.800 --> 20:51.840]  The only thing that we hold is, like, maybe your last IP address, your email address you confirmed with, and if you have any memos you've never read.
[20:52.340 --> 20:57.240]  But other than that, we don't keep any logs beyond, like, 24 hours, 48 hours of diagnostic data.
[20:58.720 --> 21:05.460]  So we've had a number of people that we've chatted with, and also a lot of people that we all know have chatted on this network for 20 years.
[21:05.600 --> 21:10.700]  So Kevin Mitnick, Cheshire Catalyst, Dan Kaminsky, many of these are our friends.
[21:17.910 --> 21:26.850]  Yeah, through services, through the Enope services, you can actually send a memo to another user, and they get a notification in their email.
[21:31.190 --> 21:32.310]  Well, this is...
[21:32.310 --> 21:34.110]  I mean, it's better than the last time I presented this.
[21:34.250 --> 21:36.730]  They didn't display my HDMI output at all last time.
[21:37.290 --> 21:38.270]  This is a little better.
[21:39.870 --> 21:40.530]  Is it better?
[21:40.670 --> 21:40.850]  Okay.
[21:41.190 --> 21:42.770]  So we have a memorial.
[21:43.050 --> 21:43.650]  These are our friends.
[21:43.850 --> 21:45.450]  We've chatted with them a super long time.
[21:45.950 --> 21:46.950]  Please remember them.
[21:47.350 --> 21:49.730]  We know expire any of them when we catch them.
[21:49.850 --> 21:50.830]  Sometimes we miss it.
[21:51.690 --> 21:54.390]  I was gonna meet up with Zed this year, and he didn't make it.
[21:56.870 --> 21:57.350]  Facebook.
[21:57.710 --> 22:00.970]  Why the hell is 2600 on Facebook?
[22:01.970 --> 22:02.450]  Right?
[22:03.430 --> 22:04.970]  Why is anyone on Facebook?
[22:05.130 --> 22:08.070]  There's a utility, moderate your risk, et cetera, et cetera, right?
[22:08.790 --> 22:10.950]  So, this is how I remember it.
[22:11.610 --> 22:13.630]  Adrian Lemo started this Facebook group.
[22:13.630 --> 22:16.750]  And I'll be quick, since I've wasted a bunch of time on this damn connector.
[22:18.310 --> 22:20.410]  He started this Facebook group a long time ago.
[22:20.430 --> 22:22.790]  And he asked me, hey, will you help me with this Facebook group?
[22:22.950 --> 22:23.630]  I'll trade you.
[22:23.770 --> 22:23.990]  Literally.
[22:23.990 --> 22:24.830]  He was like, hey, bro.
[22:24.970 --> 22:26.210]  And I've known him a long time.
[22:26.430 --> 22:27.590]  I've known him from Sacramento.
[22:28.050 --> 22:31.990]  My first 2600 meeting, I met him when he was on the lam from the feds.
[22:31.990 --> 22:35.310]  I let him stay at my house for two nights trying to decide if he was gonna turn himself in.
[22:35.530 --> 22:35.790]  Okay?
[22:35.970 --> 22:37.010]  So, I know Adrian Lemo.
[22:37.310 --> 22:37.610]  Okay?
[22:37.890 --> 22:42.670]  So, he hit me up one time like, hey, I'll give you admin on my Facebook group.
[22:42.670 --> 22:43.670]  A ton of users here.
[22:44.010 --> 22:46.170]  You want to give me operas on the IRC network?
[22:46.790 --> 22:49.350]  And I was like, let's not.
[22:49.350 --> 22:50.710]  But he admin'd me anyways.
[22:50.910 --> 22:54.050]  And I sat on the admins of the Facebook group for years and years and years.
[22:54.410 --> 22:57.790]  Until Emmanuel said, hey, would you pitch in over at that group?
[22:57.910 --> 22:59.950]  That group kind of goes off the rails every once in a while.
[23:00.170 --> 23:01.890]  That's not exactly Emmanuel's words.
[23:01.930 --> 23:05.750]  I'm just paraphrasing how I got back involved with the Facebook group.
[23:06.170 --> 23:06.390]  Okay.
[23:06.590 --> 23:08.110]  So, that was the original group.
[23:08.330 --> 23:10.750]  What happened was a bunch of successes.
[23:10.750 --> 23:15.890]  We learned that we could like pump up a Facebook group with like hundreds of thousands of users and views.
[23:16.090 --> 23:18.370]  And then Facebook gives you statistics on this stuff.
[23:18.370 --> 23:19.490]  It's not our issue.
[23:19.630 --> 23:21.190]  They've already given up the data to Facebook.
[23:21.430 --> 23:23.850]  We're just analyzing it through their APIs and so on, right?
[23:24.430 --> 23:26.950]  We also had a bunch of failures, which was interesting.
[23:27.150 --> 23:32.330]  After we hosted the group and got it big and going, unfortunately, Adrian passed away.
[23:32.410 --> 23:34.550]  And his account was the admin on the account.
[23:34.590 --> 23:35.830]  And it was memorialized.
[23:36.010 --> 23:46.450]  What ended up happening, as I remember it, is that someone ended up getting his phone number and used the SMS verification, got his account unmemorialized, and they took over the Facebook group.
[23:46.450 --> 23:47.310]  Okay.
[23:47.570 --> 23:48.810]  So, that's the old Facebook group.
[23:49.010 --> 23:52.310]  Now, they get about eight posts a month.
[23:52.870 --> 23:57.630]  While our Facebook group, which I'll show you, gets about 1,500 posts a month.
[23:57.750 --> 24:00.350]  I want to get it up to 2,600 posts a month.
[24:01.430 --> 24:01.870]  Okay.
[24:02.230 --> 24:03.210]  So, interesting thing.
[24:03.450 --> 24:04.310]  So, cyber basics.
[24:04.610 --> 24:07.830]  Like, you got to do principles of least privilege.
[24:07.830 --> 24:10.150]  You got to deal with your dormant accounts.
[24:10.930 --> 24:12.270]  Otherwise, things happen.
[24:12.450 --> 24:13.070]  Learn your basics.
[24:13.190 --> 24:13.690]  Don't forget them.
[24:13.690 --> 24:24.210]  Interesting thing that came about, the Facebook group, after I built it up, we lost the original one, and our team built up another one, which is even bigger and badder, and so on.
[24:24.850 --> 24:28.610]  Remember how I mentioned I got busted a long time ago that got me involved in 2600?
[24:28.970 --> 24:33.050]  The detective, who is now retired, showed up on the Facebook group.
[24:33.050 --> 24:35.970]  And I knew the name, okay?
[24:36.730 --> 24:39.410]  They got me on nothing, because they had nothing on me.
[24:39.550 --> 24:41.290]  But it certainly screwed up my life.
[24:41.430 --> 24:46.270]  Well, we used to host a radio show called The Usual Suspects, because that was my life for about five years.
[24:46.490 --> 24:49.510]  Because after they rated me for nothing, I was the usual suspect.
[24:49.710 --> 24:50.410]  So, it was interesting.
[24:51.070 --> 24:56.230]  Detective Mintz shows up on my Facebook group, or our Facebook group, I'm the admin of, with our moderates, right?
[24:57.110 --> 24:58.690]  And I tried to be kind of cordial with him.
[24:58.790 --> 24:59.950]  Like, hey, dude, you remember me?
[24:59.950 --> 25:01.210]  And he was like, I don't know you.
[25:01.350 --> 25:01.650]  I don't know you.
[25:01.670 --> 25:02.890]  I'm like, okay.
[25:03.270 --> 25:04.810]  Anyway, so, kind of funny.
[25:05.270 --> 25:10.050]  The guy, after he was a dirty detective, ended up with...
[25:10.050 --> 25:10.570]  Sorry.
[25:11.570 --> 25:12.230]  I'm sorry.
[25:12.310 --> 25:12.770]  My apologies.
[25:12.890 --> 25:13.810]  Let me retract that statement.
[25:13.990 --> 25:26.670]  After he was an incompetent detective and kind of bust me, because I was doing nothing, he was actually, I think, HP got busted for illegal wiretaps a long time ago.
[25:26.790 --> 25:28.370]  And he worked there around that time.
[25:28.370 --> 25:30.650]  So, I'm just saying, I'm not saying, I don't know.
[25:30.850 --> 25:32.930]  The detective story, I thought it was always kind of funny.
[25:33.030 --> 25:36.350]  When people pop out of the word work through these big social media channels, right?
[25:36.650 --> 25:38.950]  Anyways, pages versus groups.
[25:39.670 --> 25:44.750]  We had the short URLs that's also for our guidelines of how to be a moderator, how to be an admin.
[25:45.050 --> 25:47.570]  Most of those are actually left over from Adrian Lemo.
[25:47.990 --> 25:48.930]  We want to change them.
[25:48.970 --> 25:54.130]  I want to change them, because he was like super litigious and super bureaucratic about everything.
[25:54.130 --> 25:57.650]  And it really could be said with much less wordage anyways.
[25:57.990 --> 25:58.970]  We have guidelines.
[25:59.270 --> 26:00.230]  We have a code of conduct.
[26:00.250 --> 26:02.270]  I have a post for jobs.
[26:06.910 --> 26:08.490]  Oh, I'll work on it.
[26:08.550 --> 26:09.070]  I'll keep talking.
[26:09.470 --> 26:12.370]  The short URLs for jobs, off-topic weekend.
[26:12.370 --> 26:20.290]  And then also our general topics, because cybersecurity 2600 is like super wide.
[26:20.450 --> 26:21.310]  All kinds of subjects.
[26:21.430 --> 26:22.350]  All kinds of walks of life.
[26:22.490 --> 26:23.090]  All kinds of people.
[26:23.210 --> 26:23.630]  Artists.
[26:23.890 --> 26:24.330]  Cooks.
[26:24.570 --> 26:25.010]  Hunters.
[26:25.290 --> 26:25.950]  I'm a hunter.
[26:26.310 --> 26:27.610]  But cybersecurity professionals.
[26:28.310 --> 26:28.970]  Hardware people.
[26:29.090 --> 26:29.690]  Software people.
[26:29.990 --> 26:31.370]  You know, all kinds of walks of life.
[26:31.670 --> 26:33.330]  Whatever political spectrum you are, et cetera.
[26:35.850 --> 26:37.910]  Oh, I'm killing time.
[26:38.050 --> 26:38.370]  I'm okay.
[26:40.250 --> 26:41.050]  So, pages.
[26:41.750 --> 26:43.330]  Totally different than groups, right?
[26:43.430 --> 26:47.730]  And there's different APIs and different so on and how they monetize that and so on.
[26:47.790 --> 26:49.370]  And we don't make any money off of it.
[26:49.450 --> 26:50.410]  And I'll get into that.
[26:51.190 --> 26:53.750]  We have a page as well, which I never really promoted.
[26:53.890 --> 26:54.510]  Never really tried.
[26:54.750 --> 26:56.490]  It just advertises the IRC network.
[26:56.610 --> 26:57.770]  That links to the group.
[26:57.950 --> 27:01.210]  I'm just trying to get some people to connect to IRC, right?
[27:02.850 --> 27:09.130]  The new lessons that we've learned from hosting the new group in the last five years have been interesting.
[27:09.130 --> 27:12.290]  With all the disinformation, misinformation bots.
[27:12.550 --> 27:17.910]  We actually found one that was like flooding the group over 20,000 fake profiles.
[27:18.170 --> 27:22.370]  And they were all parodying political stuff and all these strange things.
[27:22.370 --> 27:23.530]  And we identified it.
[27:23.670 --> 27:25.130]  We're like, oh, come on.
[27:25.250 --> 27:32.810]  Like, either this was on accident or they really thought that we were the audience that they could try to skew in any particular direction.
[27:33.030 --> 27:33.790]  It was really funny.
[27:33.970 --> 27:35.270]  We let it go for a while.
[27:35.410 --> 27:36.270]  All these bots come in.
[27:36.330 --> 27:36.930]  We let them pair it.
[27:36.970 --> 27:39.790]  We had users report it and we'd collect them.
[27:39.790 --> 27:43.790]  And I tried even working through some of my friends that I knew at Facebook security.
[27:43.830 --> 27:45.730]  And they're just like, eh, small cookies.
[27:46.230 --> 27:48.050]  20,000, whatever.
[27:48.470 --> 27:49.310]  Like, just ban them.
[27:49.470 --> 27:50.690]  Like, they were dealing with bigger stuff.
[27:50.810 --> 27:51.010]  Anyways.
[27:52.230 --> 27:52.970]  Interesting stuff.
[27:53.170 --> 27:54.630]  Now there's new, the AI bots.
[27:54.790 --> 27:57.150]  We're seeing scammers using Facebook doing AI.
[27:58.290 --> 27:59.230]  It's really funny.
[27:59.350 --> 28:01.730]  We saw the tweets about how they didn't pay their bill.
[28:01.870 --> 28:06.870]  And then the output from the bot was showing like, pay your bill at OpenAI or something like that.
[28:06.870 --> 28:08.370]  We saw it in the Facebook group.
[28:08.550 --> 28:13.190]  We were like, we're sure these are bots and we can tag profiles and put this so admins can see it.
[28:13.390 --> 28:14.090]  And sure.
[28:14.290 --> 28:15.390]  It was like, oh, that's funny.
[28:15.510 --> 28:16.230]  Did you see that tweet?
[28:16.390 --> 28:17.230]  Oh, look at the group.
[28:17.550 --> 28:17.730]  Ah!
[28:18.090 --> 28:20.050]  You know, we see all this kind of stuff out there.
[28:22.430 --> 28:24.470]  There's new generation of kind of trolling.
[28:24.590 --> 28:25.510]  It's always adaptive.
[28:25.850 --> 28:27.250]  There's a lot of information about this.
[28:27.390 --> 28:30.230]  There's even a 2600 article about it that came out a while ago.
[28:30.550 --> 28:31.690]  That was based off of that.
[28:31.690 --> 28:41.110]  So anyways, I got invited through the Facebook summit because we had a large, rapidly growing Facebook group.
[28:41.250 --> 28:44.490]  And I guess, contextually, they had no idea what it was.
[28:44.670 --> 28:49.170]  And I was like, no, I'm just a volunteer for a publication that's been around for 1984.
[28:49.610 --> 28:50.270]  Blah, blah, blah.
[28:50.510 --> 28:51.750]  Technology and cybersecurity.
[28:52.270 --> 28:58.010]  And then so when I got invited the first time and showed up, and I'm like, people started to get the context of a hacker magazine.
[28:58.210 --> 28:59.150]  It really changed.
[28:59.690 --> 29:03.370]  So it was interesting being able to talk with Facebook people, community people.
[29:03.550 --> 29:11.930]  It was mostly like cooking sites and home support sites and all these big groups from all these different places of Facebook.
[29:12.030 --> 29:14.250]  And I showed up as the hacker group.
[29:14.510 --> 29:15.010]  It was kind of funny.
[29:16.590 --> 29:19.990]  The second time we weren't invited back, I social engineered my way back in.
[29:19.990 --> 29:21.950]  So I'm still a super admin.
[29:22.130 --> 29:22.970]  It's a private group.
[29:22.970 --> 29:28.330]  And they give you access to a different API for reporting problems with your group and stuff.
[29:29.590 --> 29:30.730]  It's a weird thing.
[29:30.990 --> 29:33.090]  Like, yeah, there's hidden URLs.
[29:33.410 --> 29:35.190]  You can find some information about it, but it's weird.
[29:36.410 --> 29:38.430]  So this is our big successes.
[29:39.170 --> 29:39.690]  Still going?
[29:39.850 --> 29:39.970]  Okay.
[29:40.950 --> 29:44.450]  We've managed to regrow the group up to over 90,000 users.
[29:44.630 --> 29:45.470]  And these are not bots.
[29:45.610 --> 29:47.530]  These are actual real group users.
[29:48.010 --> 29:51.650]  These are people who participate, comment, react, view, and so on.
[29:51.690 --> 29:53.230]  And we see that through the Facebook statistics.
[29:53.270 --> 29:54.950]  And it's very different at their bots, right?
[29:55.930 --> 29:57.670]  So we were planning on submitting...
[29:57.670 --> 29:59.930]  I was planning on submitting the talk with the guys and so on.
[30:00.550 --> 30:02.710]  And so I wanted to bring my SIG in Tobago.
[30:02.970 --> 30:04.490]  So that's why I put in the...
[30:04.490 --> 30:06.130]  I want my Winnebago.
[30:06.330 --> 30:08.730]  Anyways, lots of good information out there.
[30:08.730 --> 30:16.650]  We have a ton of cool people in the group now from industry, big hackers, and I say brains because a ton of smart people.
[30:16.870 --> 30:24.290]  If you dig through the group and look at the conversations on the IRC network when you're in real time or on the group, a ton of smart people from all over the industry.
[30:24.310 --> 30:25.290]  It's super exciting.
[30:25.390 --> 30:26.110]  I think it is.
[30:26.770 --> 30:27.830]  We even got...
[30:27.830 --> 30:33.970]  I even invited and got Rob Joyce from NSA to come hang out in the group and post some stuff.
[30:34.350 --> 30:35.450]  Kind of a cool guy, right?
[30:36.710 --> 30:38.290]  Anyways, here's some of our statistics.
[30:39.210 --> 30:41.710]  They closed off the API and monetized it.
[30:42.910 --> 30:45.530]  Oh, the other thing I wanted to point out real quick, I forgot.
[30:46.250 --> 30:51.750]  Facebook offered a beta program between pages and groups to monetize a group versus a page.
[30:51.970 --> 30:56.590]  And they offered $1,100 bucks a month to monetize the group, to do the beta thing.
[30:56.690 --> 30:57.930]  And I was like, no, no, no, no, no.
[30:58.250 --> 31:01.190]  And I talked to $2,600 and it's like, no, because we're a nonprofit.
[31:01.230 --> 31:02.550]  That's just like really complicated.
[31:02.650 --> 31:03.250]  I totally get it.
[31:03.430 --> 31:04.350]  Never our intention.
[31:04.890 --> 31:05.870]  But it was interesting.
[31:06.010 --> 31:09.110]  It's like, ah, maybe even Facebook thinks that this is valuable, right?
[31:09.590 --> 31:13.330]  Anyways, this is just 60 days.
[31:13.330 --> 31:17.050]  And it shows like when we had like our last viral post.
[31:17.230 --> 31:21.030]  And what's cool is that a lot of the viral posts, they mentioned $2,600.
[31:21.410 --> 31:29.350]  So even if it's about just like a phone booth that they saw or some technology thing, we post all kinds of crazy stuff, news hits.
[31:29.570 --> 31:33.390]  If it goes viral, it puts out $2,600, which I think is cool.
[31:34.510 --> 31:37.530]  Another same time span, but it shows different stuff.
[31:37.690 --> 31:39.930]  It's like participation posts and comments.
[31:40.090 --> 31:40.890]  These are views.
[31:41.250 --> 31:43.670]  And then engagement, which is the whole thing, right?
[31:44.790 --> 31:45.250]  Interesting.
[31:45.790 --> 31:49.410]  A lot of $2,600 doesn't get a lot of these statistics, right?
[31:49.410 --> 31:51.070]  So I look at it.
[31:51.170 --> 31:53.650]  We don't really publish the stuff or look at it.
[31:53.690 --> 31:55.350]  It's just interesting to know.
[31:55.470 --> 31:56.990]  And we do try to adapt to it.
[31:57.090 --> 32:06.530]  And one aspect too, we always are trying to not lord over everything, but set a good vibe so that there's equitable conversations and everyone is welcome.
[32:06.530 --> 32:21.030]  Now, this is just some of my analysis and some of the feedback that we've gotten from other type, genre, other technology groups, and in communities is obviously there's not a lot of participation or public participation from other genres and genders.
[32:21.410 --> 32:28.030]  Now, one thing that I feel that I'm proud of is that we've managed to have a much higher participation rate with females.
[32:28.250 --> 32:29.690]  And that's not like perfect.
[32:29.710 --> 32:32.950]  We always got like a thousand percent more better to do, right?
[32:33.090 --> 32:33.430]  More better.
[32:33.430 --> 32:34.450]  Interesting.
[32:37.990 --> 32:40.390]  Production stuff, art stuff, it's...
[32:40.390 --> 32:43.310]  Well, not quite art, but two to three percent is the average.
[32:45.130 --> 32:46.010]  Pretty good, right?
[32:46.490 --> 32:46.890]  Okay.
[32:48.210 --> 32:49.490]  Where do we go from here?
[32:49.670 --> 32:50.570]  I don't know.
[32:50.850 --> 32:54.150]  I've been hosting this thing with my friends that I roped into this for...
[32:54.970 --> 32:55.750]  Oh, geez.
[32:55.970 --> 32:57.290]  20 plus years.
[32:57.550 --> 32:58.550]  It's 2003-ish.
[33:00.590 --> 33:01.770]  I like uptime.
[33:01.930 --> 33:02.590]  I like chatting.
[33:03.730 --> 33:05.470]  I welcome everyone to use it.
[33:05.550 --> 33:09.550]  That's the big positive thing is that we've come through so many phases, so many eras.
[33:09.690 --> 33:12.230]  We've survived so many different things out there.
[33:12.270 --> 33:13.290]  And we're still up.
[33:13.450 --> 33:14.570]  You know, I think it's really great.
[33:14.730 --> 33:16.530]  And I just encourage people to use it.
[33:17.010 --> 33:19.210]  IRC is one of the oldest protocols on the Internet.
[33:19.210 --> 33:24.250]  It was like Telnet, FTP, POP, and IRC?
[33:25.150 --> 33:25.450]  I forget.
[33:25.610 --> 33:26.950]  Without wicking it, right?
[33:27.450 --> 33:29.030]  This is where our stuff is right now.
[33:29.170 --> 33:31.950]  We have all migrated to cloud.
[33:32.050 --> 33:33.390]  It's just the way of the world.
[33:34.730 --> 33:36.370]  Everything's encrypted, so on.
[33:36.430 --> 33:42.030]  But Oregon, West Coast, East Coast, this basically covers the whole globe with a decent ping time.
[33:43.550 --> 33:47.330]  I want to say thank you to 2600.com, Emmanuel.
[33:48.790 --> 33:54.210]  I don't know why, but he's entrusted me to point the DNS to me to host this for a long time.
[34:02.660 --> 34:03.800]  The software.
[34:04.180 --> 34:12.540]  Michael Wobbs helped us host and has been integral in coding for us, fixing bugs that we report.
[34:12.920 --> 34:14.960]  And they make fantastic software.
[34:15.160 --> 34:18.200]  They've had very minimal vulnerabilities in their software.
[34:18.500 --> 34:20.580]  A ton of history in IRC hybrid.
[34:21.080 --> 34:27.940]  And also, Diane Bruce, Diane Ora, wrote some of the original code through my travels with IRC.
[34:27.940 --> 34:32.720]  I actually got to chat with her a bunch of times about our network, about the software and so on.
[34:32.880 --> 34:33.920]  I think that was pretty cool.
[34:34.040 --> 34:35.280]  So definitely, thanks out to them.
[34:35.700 --> 34:36.600]  IRCD hybrid.
[34:36.840 --> 34:37.160]  Anope.
[34:38.360 --> 34:41.060]  Frank Abagnale was a big hero of mine growing up.
[34:41.300 --> 34:42.620]  And friends of the family.
[34:43.120 --> 34:43.560]  And thank them.
[34:43.720 --> 34:45.240]  Also, John Strouch in the family.
[34:45.760 --> 34:47.700]  Technical advisor to the movie Sneakers.
[34:48.120 --> 34:49.480]  He was a mentor of mine.
[34:49.760 --> 34:51.240]  Very good friend of mine and the family.
[34:51.460 --> 34:55.740]  And then also my legal support, who will be nameless.
[34:55.740 --> 34:56.320]  Okay?
[34:56.500 --> 34:57.340]  Because it wasn't the EFF.
[34:59.460 --> 35:01.720]  Not that that's supposed to be prepaid legal service.
[35:01.980 --> 35:08.440]  But when someone from the community or a group of people come to the community asking for help, they should get more than a one-line email.
[35:10.680 --> 35:11.720]  What else can I say?
[35:12.480 --> 35:14.120]  You guys want to add some more?
[35:14.260 --> 35:15.500]  We have plenty of time for questions.
[35:15.700 --> 35:22.180]  And I wanted to point out earlier, a lot of these topics could be whole lectures themselves.
[35:22.180 --> 35:23.900]  Like the whole WikiLeaks thing.
[35:24.020 --> 35:27.880]  The whole way that we install the software and we build it out and we handle the crypto.
[35:28.100 --> 35:28.860]  Like all these...
[35:28.860 --> 35:34.660]  So, if you want me to expand on any particular subject or any part, I'm happy to tell more.
[35:34.880 --> 35:36.660]  And the guys can jump in as well.
[35:36.800 --> 35:37.620]  Did I miss anything?
[35:38.640 --> 35:40.920]  D Claw on the top left-hand corner here.
[35:41.120 --> 35:43.960]  He's been a hoster friend of mine and he's helped with the security.
[35:45.540 --> 35:49.540]  And then Tim Benish on the bottom right-hand corner, if this works again.
[35:51.440 --> 35:52.260]  There it is.
[35:52.420 --> 35:56.880]  He's helped me on the IRC network and Facebook for many years and Telephreak.
[35:57.060 --> 35:58.760]  D Claw on the top left-hand corner.
[35:59.140 --> 36:02.160]  Mostly all IRC, like a lot of us, does in Facebook.
[36:02.660 --> 36:06.180]  And then a new addition to the team, since Daniel can be here, is Ryujin.
[36:06.420 --> 36:08.460]  In the bottom left-hand corner, he's a security guy.
[36:09.000 --> 36:10.440]  And I also try to keep...
[36:10.440 --> 36:16.140]  Not only do I rope my friends in to do these crazy projects, but these are smart people.
[36:16.280 --> 36:17.000]  They're from industry.
[36:17.260 --> 36:18.240]  They're security-minded.
[36:18.700 --> 36:20.120]  They're engaged in the community.
[36:20.780 --> 36:22.540]  And they're just as paranoid as I am.
[36:23.560 --> 36:28.640]  But also, most importantly, I don't like to live in an echo chamber.
[36:28.640 --> 36:34.560]  So if I need feedback or if I'm going off the rails, I can trust these guys to talk to me.
[36:34.760 --> 36:37.920]  Or to tell me a different perspective so that we can adapt and overcome.
[36:38.100 --> 36:38.340]  So on.
[36:39.160 --> 36:41.880]  So D Claw, you had some stories earlier.
[36:42.180 --> 36:43.700]  I think we've got plenty of time here.
[36:43.880 --> 36:44.840]  And we'll take some questions.
[36:46.620 --> 36:47.020]  Yeah.
[36:47.400 --> 36:47.960]  Can you hear me?
[36:50.060 --> 36:50.460]  Cool.
[36:51.120 --> 36:51.440]  Yeah.
[36:52.060 --> 36:53.800]  I mean, it's been a long journey.
[36:53.800 --> 36:57.640]  I mean, I remember being on Fnet and found 2600.
[36:57.800 --> 37:01.540]  You know, I was dialing up to, you know, BBSs and doing all kinds of stuff.
[37:01.960 --> 37:04.220]  All kinds of things I found in 2600.
[37:05.200 --> 37:08.420]  And, you know, I found this IRC channel.
[37:08.920 --> 37:10.900]  I was having a great time for many years.
[37:11.060 --> 37:11.990]  And then it just disappeared.
[37:12.680 --> 37:13.740]  It's the most horrible thing in the world.
[37:13.740 --> 37:18.660]  And I remember vividly at DEFCON 10, sitting at the pool with you.
[37:18.720 --> 37:23.640]  And I was wearing this 2600 shirt from way back.
[37:25.900 --> 37:28.540]  And we started talking about the IRC network.
[37:28.780 --> 37:31.880]  And, you know, figuring out, hey, you know, this thing needs to get going again.
[37:32.100 --> 37:34.320]  We need to, you know, kind of get the community back around that.
[37:34.740 --> 37:35.860]  That was DEFCON 10.
[37:36.820 --> 37:38.320]  And yeah, DEFCON 10.
[37:38.520 --> 37:40.220]  And then by DEFCON 11, it was done.
[37:40.220 --> 37:44.480]  You know, that was the following year, that June, right before DEFCON 11.
[37:46.140 --> 37:48.300]  You know, we were back, you know.
[37:48.460 --> 37:49.600]  It was like, all right, cool.
[37:49.680 --> 37:50.940]  We got 2600 net back.
[37:51.080 --> 37:51.940]  You know, it was so awesome.
[37:53.160 --> 37:53.620]  You know?
[37:53.940 --> 37:54.060]  Yeah.
[37:54.060 --> 37:59.900]  And I've just been idling and chatting and bullshitting and whatevering ever since.
[38:00.060 --> 38:01.760]  And it's just been a wild ride, man.
[38:02.040 --> 38:02.180]  Yeah.
[38:02.180 --> 38:05.740]  I mean, I'm so happy to, you know, be a part of it for so long.
[38:06.020 --> 38:06.180]  Yeah.
[38:06.280 --> 38:06.560]  You know?
[38:06.560 --> 38:12.560]  And there's so many people that we've had a good time with and loved and lost and fought with and trolled with.
[38:12.680 --> 38:14.280]  And, you know, it's all just been a good time.
[38:16.140 --> 38:17.060]  How about you, Tim?
[38:17.280 --> 38:19.520]  You got any stories, a quick thing you want to tell us?
[38:20.260 --> 38:27.360]  Mostly, I joined just to try to help out and help promote the magazine, especially on the Facebook page.
[38:27.360 --> 38:27.420]  Facebook page.
[38:28.940 --> 38:37.540]  It's been quite a ride trying to get more people to recognize the magazine and buy more merch.
[38:38.220 --> 38:38.700]  Yeah.
[38:38.760 --> 38:40.740]  Not like we're really trying to pimp it super hard.
[38:40.980 --> 38:46.600]  It's just creating content, cybersecurity news, DYI stuff, all the subjects out there, right?
[38:49.580 --> 38:51.180]  It's just putting it out there.
[38:51.400 --> 38:53.320]  It's not trying to make money or anything like that.
[38:53.320 --> 38:54.280]  It's just...
[38:54.780 --> 38:57.580]  It's the last magazine in print for this kind of genre.
[38:57.860 --> 38:59.680]  We're just trying to promote it and get it out there.
[38:59.840 --> 39:02.560]  It's another channel that's productive, we think.
[39:03.640 --> 39:04.040]  Right?
[39:04.240 --> 39:05.340]  I mean...
[39:05.340 --> 39:06.000]  All right, Ryujin.
[39:06.180 --> 39:07.180]  He's a new guy.
[39:07.300 --> 39:13.520]  I've known him a long time through chat, but it's always hard to find new blood to work with us.
[39:13.520 --> 39:16.920]  Not that we're difficult to work with, but to get involved with it and understand it.
[39:16.920 --> 39:18.460]  He had some experience.
[39:18.720 --> 39:23.500]  One of the very few people out there that had experience with IRCDs and showed me that he had it.
[39:23.700 --> 39:25.300]  Not that it's super complicated software.
[39:25.580 --> 39:27.540]  It's just finicky software.
[39:28.100 --> 39:33.700]  But anyways, I invited him to come help us and I've chatted with him for a long time and he's a new addition.
[39:33.960 --> 39:34.360]  Ryujin.
[39:35.660 --> 39:36.140]  Hey.
[39:36.380 --> 39:38.700]  I'm excited to see where things actually go.
[39:39.980 --> 39:42.700]  2600 has been around for a very long time.
[39:42.700 --> 39:47.760]  I've actually been around for a number of years under various handles and whatnot.
[39:48.180 --> 39:50.820]  And I'm kind of excited to see where things actually go in the future.
[39:51.880 --> 39:54.960]  It's kind of been a bit of a resurgence in the last couple of years.
[39:55.380 --> 40:03.660]  So I'm really hoping that 2600 continues to grow and expand and we see a lot of new blood.
[40:05.220 --> 40:05.820]  All right.
[40:06.000 --> 40:06.700]  I guess that's...
[40:07.640 --> 40:08.120]  Questions?
[40:10.460 --> 40:10.980]  No.
[40:11.240 --> 40:12.720]  So that's the thing about the communities.
[40:13.120 --> 40:19.500]  Like, Emmanuel wants everyone to do everything themselves and to be self-sufficient and all the different channels.
[40:20.100 --> 40:21.000]  I'm old school.
[40:21.180 --> 40:23.800]  I stick with the IRC stuff and just so on.
[40:23.960 --> 40:27.020]  But we want to link and promote and connect those.
[40:27.220 --> 40:33.200]  We do have some slack to IRC and discord IRC links in different channels and stuff.
[40:33.860 --> 40:35.680]  And that's what I was talking about bots.
[40:35.920 --> 40:41.600]  Like, if it's a utility bot and you want to connect something cross-connect from matrix to this and that, like, do it.
[40:41.740 --> 40:41.860]  Yeah.
[40:42.120 --> 40:42.720]  It's totally cool.
[40:43.440 --> 40:44.320]  That's what it's there for.
[40:44.420 --> 40:46.620]  I'd love to see better clients out there.
[40:46.760 --> 40:51.080]  For example, IRC Cloud makes a good client, but they log everything.
[40:51.540 --> 40:54.400]  And they're a British company and there's no way to turn it off.
[40:54.760 --> 40:56.560]  We actually experimented with that.
[40:56.560 --> 41:03.200]  We had an old operator of ours used it and then just sent a support request saying, hey, could you search this keyword?
[41:03.780 --> 41:08.080]  And they'd, like, send him a log for everything for the last, like, three years that he chatted with, with that keyword.
[41:09.640 --> 41:10.500]  Like, yeah.
[41:10.700 --> 41:17.120]  So, IRC Cloud has a good client and they have a good product in a sense, but you've got to understand your risks associated with using some of these other platforms.
[41:17.840 --> 41:20.400]  Like I said, like, use screen and scroll back.
[41:20.620 --> 41:21.160]  Don't log.
[41:21.160 --> 41:23.920]  You know, it minimizes liabilities.
[41:23.920 --> 41:26.640]  It minimizes accidental issues and so on.
[41:26.960 --> 41:29.960]  You know, I know how paranoid we can all get and so on.
[41:30.060 --> 41:36.160]  So, when something goes down with someone down the way or in another community, you don't have to worry about it because you don't have logs and they didn't...
[41:37.140 --> 41:38.640]  Anyways, I digress on that.
[41:39.600 --> 41:41.420]  Can I expand on anything else?
[41:41.640 --> 41:44.420]  Do you guys have any other communities that you would like to link?
[41:45.340 --> 41:50.840]  Is there any other services that we could bring to the network that would make you maybe connect to it?
[41:51.880 --> 41:52.360]  Maybe?
[41:52.680 --> 41:52.740]  No.
[41:53.440 --> 41:58.820]  So, right now, we average about 400 regular users on the IRC network.
[42:00.080 --> 42:01.480]  Like, always connected.
[42:01.740 --> 42:06.760]  But in the database, we have like 3,000 or 4,000 in between there when they expire out and so on.
[42:07.760 --> 42:10.660]  This last five years, we had to set a bunch to no expire.
[42:11.240 --> 42:12.020]  But yeah.
[42:12.360 --> 42:18.060]  And then Facebook, we don't care if you have like a real account or you're proxying or like gaming Facebook or whatnot.
[42:18.380 --> 42:20.480]  Just contribute positively to the Facebook group.
[42:20.480 --> 42:22.220]  We're not there to enforce Facebook's rules.
[42:22.260 --> 42:29.100]  Because they are absolutely ridiculous about how they handle or manage certain keywords or domains or content.
[42:29.400 --> 42:35.180]  And it's, I think, 99% automated and they don't ever really look at it all.
[42:35.180 --> 42:40.060]  So, it's just the algorithms popping you for spam because I shared a 2600 article.
[42:40.700 --> 42:40.840]  You know?
[42:42.060 --> 42:42.460]  Yeah.
[42:44.380 --> 42:46.820]  How long did it take for the accounts to expire out?
[42:46.920 --> 42:49.940]  We expired the IRC stuff for two years.
[42:50.460 --> 42:50.620]  25.
[42:50.860 --> 42:51.140]  Yeah.
[42:51.380 --> 42:52.280]  And we're talking about...
[42:52.280 --> 42:53.460]  It's not very much data.
[42:54.060 --> 42:58.120]  And especially with cloud, even in the small resources that we're using in cloud.
[42:58.540 --> 42:59.520]  It's not much data.
[42:59.640 --> 43:00.980]  We talked about making that longer.
[43:00.980 --> 43:05.160]  But we had just set that so that it was a risk reduction.
[43:05.440 --> 43:05.720]  Yeah.
[43:05.840 --> 43:06.040]  You know?
[43:06.200 --> 43:11.320]  It was from 2014 era when people were getting subpoenaed and gagged.
[43:14.140 --> 43:19.280]  NLS letters showing up, people showing up to your work and stuff like that.
[43:19.440 --> 43:24.020]  I wanted to reduce the risk of the amount of data so they just sit around and languish around.
[43:24.220 --> 43:25.500]  So, two years for that.
[43:25.840 --> 43:26.840]  And yeah.
[43:28.080 --> 43:35.300]  So, and that's just, we're starting to document some of these best practices that we've come over the last like 20 years.
[43:35.500 --> 43:35.600]  You know?
[43:35.660 --> 43:36.420]  No unknowns.
[43:37.020 --> 43:37.280]  You know?
[43:37.360 --> 43:38.440]  Principles of least privilege.
[43:38.700 --> 43:39.880]  Like, we do this for work, right?
[43:39.880 --> 43:44.560]  That's what's funny, is we try to do it, and then we're like, oh, that's too much work.
[43:45.780 --> 43:49.520]  I was like, oh, we should get a wiki, and I can do a JIRA.
[43:50.040 --> 43:54.960]  And I don't like JIRA, the attack on the surface of that is just atrocious.
[43:55.640 --> 43:56.720]  But you get what I'm saying.
[43:56.960 --> 43:58.760]  So it's always, I got to work with the team.
[43:59.140 --> 44:02.560]  I would like to go gung-ho about it and be super hardcore about everything.
[44:02.800 --> 44:04.600]  And also, it's part of me being lazy, too.
[44:05.640 --> 44:06.180]  I'm sorry?
[44:07.040 --> 44:09.000]  No, we don't do two-week sprints.
[44:09.000 --> 44:14.920]  It's actually, and if you see through the charts and some of the slides, if you want them, it's a 10-year sprint.
[44:16.740 --> 44:18.260]  The software is very stable.
[44:18.380 --> 44:19.980]  Their operating systems are very stable.
[44:20.500 --> 44:23.440]  And in fact, I was recently, we just did the big upgraded.
[44:24.100 --> 44:29.180]  And I was looking at operating systems, and I'm like, God damn it, Linux, why do you end of life so soon?
[44:30.220 --> 44:32.880]  And I'm using the LTSs and so on, right, right, right?
[44:33.020 --> 44:37.880]  But man, why can't I have a Linux that will just run for 20 years and get patches?
[44:39.160 --> 44:40.440]  Without having to reboot.
[44:40.580 --> 44:41.540]  Without having to reboot.
[44:41.820 --> 44:44.160]  No, we have servers that have been uptight, and they're secure.
[44:44.340 --> 44:46.480]  Our attack surface is very minimal.
[44:46.700 --> 44:48.520]  It's like SSH, random ports.
[44:48.700 --> 44:51.140]  Sometimes we have crazy hosters who want to port knocking.
[44:51.780 --> 44:53.440]  Anyways, minimal attack surface.
[44:53.700 --> 44:55.160]  No one really finds the boxes.
[44:55.640 --> 45:00.580]  The hubs are actually not in DNS, so you can't find that through the Internet.
[45:01.140 --> 45:04.980]  If you got into one of our servers, you could see the configuration and find it.
[45:05.420 --> 45:08.300]  But anyways, that's risk reduction on the data that we host.
[45:09.080 --> 45:12.440]  But yeah, we've had servers at uptime of over five or six hundred days easy.
[45:12.740 --> 45:14.660]  So I'm like, yeah, I logged into it.
[45:14.840 --> 45:19.560]  Got back from overseas three years, and I'm like, oh, cool, it's still working.
[45:19.820 --> 45:20.720]  Nice statistic.
[45:21.840 --> 45:24.360]  Anyways, but it's availability for the users.
[45:24.360 --> 45:27.280]  You know, I work in the CIA triad and so on.
[45:27.780 --> 45:28.480]  Not these guys.
[45:28.640 --> 45:30.380]  I'm talking about confidentiality, integrity.
[45:32.240 --> 45:34.500]  Availability is a big deal to me, right?
[45:34.660 --> 45:37.760]  Because the attack surface is so minimal.
[45:38.320 --> 45:39.960]  You know, Heartbleed was never an issue for us.
[45:40.040 --> 45:41.340]  Spectre was never an issue for us.
[45:41.420 --> 45:43.300]  We analyze this stuff when this stuff comes out.
[45:43.740 --> 45:50.700]  You know, every time we see a vulnerability that might remotely intersect with our minimal software stack, there we go.
[45:50.900 --> 45:52.080]  So thank you very much.
[45:52.080 --> 45:53.480]  I really appreciate you all coming.
[45:53.920 --> 45:54.460]  I really do.
[45:54.580 --> 45:54.860]  Thank you.