[00:00.240 --> 00:05.980]  All right, coming up next is the social engineering section and panel of HOPE.
[00:06.560 --> 00:18.500]  These have been legendary, and DVD man is standing by to burn copies of this so you can take it home and hand it off to friends.
[00:18.500 --> 00:31.180]  In the past, before this panel, memos and emails have gone out in corporate environments to pay attention during this weekend because things happen.
[00:34.160 --> 00:38.820]  So without any more delay or sound tests, Emmanuel Goldstein.
[00:39.880 --> 00:40.280]  Thank you.
[00:49.790 --> 00:55.890]  I just want to say, you know, it's an incredible amount of pressure to have to come up here every two years and do something clever.
[00:55.890 --> 00:56.570]  On the phone.
[00:57.350 --> 01:04.170]  And this has been torture for the last however many weeks I've been thinking about it up until this very moment where I still have no clue what I'm going to do.
[01:06.810 --> 01:08.450]  So let's hope for the best.
[01:08.610 --> 01:15.090]  But I'd like for the rest of the panelists to introduce themselves, many of whom have gotten no sleep at all over the past couple of days.
[01:15.230 --> 01:20.530]  So bear with us if sometimes we say things that don't make any sense or if we do something completely bizarre.
[01:20.990 --> 01:21.630]  Let's start over there.
[01:21.630 --> 01:23.490]  Hi, I'm number 113.
[01:24.110 --> 01:26.030]  I'm Richard Cheshire, the Cheshire Catalyst.
[01:30.260 --> 01:30.920]  Thank you.
[01:35.140 --> 01:37.520]  I'm number 134, Bernie S.
[01:43.890 --> 01:45.750]  I'm number 2, Kevin.
[01:51.240 --> 01:53.240]  I guess that means you're not the number 1, Kevin.
[01:53.240 --> 01:54.260]  All right.
[01:54.700 --> 01:56.500]  Who's not here, unfortunately.
[01:56.940 --> 01:57.780]  And hopefully he'll be...
[01:57.780 --> 01:58.320]  And you know what?
[01:58.320 --> 02:01.600]  We're going to have updates on all the various victims of the conference.
[02:02.640 --> 02:04.160]  Hopefully by the closing ceremonies.
[02:04.160 --> 02:05.620]  We don't know about Steve yet.
[02:05.820 --> 02:08.760]  And hopefully we'll know something by the time we finish up tonight.
[02:10.780 --> 02:13.960]  Cheshire, now you've been around the hacking scene for quite some time.
[02:14.180 --> 02:17.700]  And maybe a definition of what social engineering is is a good way to start.
[02:18.500 --> 02:18.940]  Okay.
[02:19.160 --> 02:29.640]  Well, social engineering is when you need some information from someone and you have to convince them that not only are you one of them, but that you deserve to have the information.
[02:30.240 --> 02:34.680]  And trying to convince them that giving you that information is the right thing to do.
[02:36.420 --> 02:37.420]  That's from their site.
[02:38.360 --> 02:39.540]  But they don't have phone numbers.
[02:40.660 --> 02:42.640]  John Draper, of course, is the master of this.
[02:42.640 --> 02:48.760]  He would call up a telephone switch room and throw so much jargon at them that, of course, he had to be another switchman.
[02:49.360 --> 02:55.900]  And he needed just one little bit of information to enable him to place his phone call to Russia or Japan or wherever.
[02:56.600 --> 03:00.160]  And just listening to the way he would badger the guy.
[03:00.540 --> 03:01.880]  My boss is on my neck.
[03:01.940 --> 03:03.960]  I've got to get this information before the meeting on Friday.
[03:05.280 --> 03:06.920]  It's just a marvel to behold.
[03:08.480 --> 03:09.740]  But that's really it.
[03:09.740 --> 03:17.440]  It's convincing your, well, victim, that you are, you know, as downtrodden as he is.
[03:18.080 --> 03:22.120]  You're just in the other office, either across town or across the country.
[03:22.120 --> 03:25.880]  And you just need the one thing that I know you're not supposed to give it out.
[03:26.000 --> 03:27.240]  But, you know, it's among us.
[03:27.360 --> 03:27.760]  It's okay.
[03:28.740 --> 03:34.480]  And that's pretty much what social engineering is, is convincing him that you are a good guy along with him.
[03:34.640 --> 03:35.360]  It's lying.
[03:37.120 --> 03:38.520]  And lying is wrong.
[03:38.520 --> 03:39.800]  Not always.
[03:40.000 --> 03:40.360]  Not always.
[03:40.460 --> 03:41.240]  I disagree.
[03:41.420 --> 03:44.520]  When I think about doing this...
[03:47.180 --> 03:48.320]  Oh, my thought crime.
[03:49.480 --> 03:51.200]  Yeah, that'll get you in prison, too.
[03:51.460 --> 04:02.500]  But I find it a bigger challenge to not lie and to make your mark think you said something that you didn't say.
[04:05.140 --> 04:06.420]  Creative truth-telling.
[04:06.860 --> 04:08.500]  Not even... you don't have to be creative truth-telling.
[04:08.580 --> 04:12.880]  It's just phrasing, manner of speech, tonality.
[04:13.360 --> 04:16.480]  All these things are just as effective as the content of what you're saying.
[04:16.480 --> 04:25.760]  And if you say it with an authoritative tone and phrase it in the right way, people just sort of stand to attention.
[04:25.980 --> 04:27.820]  We'll just spurt out all kinds of information.
[04:27.820 --> 04:36.580]  So, I find it much more challenging to not commit phone fraud by lying or... what is that?
[04:36.680 --> 04:41.040]  Wire fraud when you actually lie over the phone to get something of value.
[04:41.320 --> 04:43.700]  So, it's not always lying.
[04:46.300 --> 04:49.100]  Okay, well, I have a different view as far as just lying goes.
[04:49.260 --> 04:59.320]  I mean, people who are complete strangers, voices in a little telephone, you don't have to tell them what you really believe, who you really are.
[04:59.420 --> 05:00.700]  You don't have to do things like that.
[05:00.780 --> 05:01.880]  You don't want to hurt these people.
[05:01.980 --> 05:05.760]  You don't want to make them ruin their lives or anything like that.
[05:05.880 --> 05:12.900]  But telling a lie to an American Express operator someplace to get information, I don't think is a bad thing.
[05:12.900 --> 05:15.920]  What you do with that information, of course, that's different if you use it to harm people.
[05:16.240 --> 05:17.380]  That's not a good thing.
[05:17.440 --> 05:32.060]  But we use what we do in situations like this for fun and to demonstrate, to demonstrate a point, to demonstrate that sometimes the information that should be protected is the information that's least protected.
[05:33.860 --> 05:35.260]  I've been thinking while I've been up here.
[05:35.300 --> 05:38.460]  Actually, Bernie, you have an interesting memo from the hotel, is it?
[05:38.860 --> 05:40.120]  Yeah, you haven't even seen this yet.
[05:40.120 --> 05:41.160]  I haven't seen this yet.
[05:41.160 --> 05:45.080]  This is cold turkey, not cold turkey, but this is totally impromptu thing.
[05:45.240 --> 05:50.820]  I found this internal hotel memo in the hallway, near the freight elevators.
[05:50.840 --> 05:51.700]  Didn't break into any office.
[05:51.940 --> 05:52.220]  No, no.
[05:52.360 --> 05:53.580]  I'm authorized to be there, whatever.
[05:53.840 --> 05:56.500]  But I picked it up and here it is.
[05:56.900 --> 05:59.280]  Sort of sets the theme for the mood that's been around us.
[05:59.340 --> 06:02.700]  And we're going to use that today, to a degree, for social engineering purposes.
[06:02.880 --> 06:03.860]  This doesn't get us kicked out.
[06:05.340 --> 06:06.480]  Well, it's Sunday afternoon.
[06:10.630 --> 06:12.350]  I hope this isn't our final hope.
[06:14.290 --> 06:20.570]  And this is an e-mail, a printout of an e-mail message to all the managers, floor supervisors, and employees.
[06:21.710 --> 06:23.450]  And people walking by in the hallway.
[06:25.670 --> 06:29.710]  And I'm not going to give out the actual e-mail addresses or the domain name.
[06:29.710 --> 06:30.350]  You can guess that.
[06:30.470 --> 06:33.790]  It's to Hotel Penn everybody at whatever.
[06:36.310 --> 06:37.110]  Important update.
[06:37.250 --> 06:37.930]  3:30 p.m.
[06:37.950 --> 06:39.350]  This is a Wednesday of this week.
[06:39.990 --> 06:47.410]  It's from someone at a company named Energy Curtailment Specialists, Inc.
[06:47.870 --> 06:48.990]  I want that title.
[06:49.770 --> 06:52.070]  I want to be the Energy Curtailment Specialist.
[06:54.450 --> 06:55.530]  You've got too much energy.
[06:55.670 --> 06:55.970]  Slow down.
[07:00.070 --> 07:09.730]  It says here, there continue to be problems with downed transmission lines, overheated transformers, cabling problems with Con Ed, et cetera.
[07:09.890 --> 07:14.230]  And the fear is that the entire transmission system infrastructure may collapse under further stress.
[07:14.730 --> 07:18.050]  And cause not only a blackout, but a longer term blackout.
[07:19.070 --> 07:19.630]  And...
[07:19.630 --> 07:20.930]  What does that mean exactly?
[07:21.250 --> 07:21.710]  I don't know.
[07:23.250 --> 07:26.930]  And the entire transmission system infrastructure may collapse.
[07:27.270 --> 07:29.530]  That sounds pretty Armageddon-like.
[07:29.990 --> 07:31.490]  Could we have picked a better weekend?
[07:33.750 --> 07:37.230]  They were just a few days early, I guess, in their predictions.
[07:37.490 --> 07:39.550]  But it goes on to say, there's actually two e-mails.
[07:39.730 --> 07:43.870]  This one here says, obviously problems are so severe that they are asking for help right away.
[07:44.050 --> 07:51.830]  There are numerous fires, transformers, transformers overheating, transmissions lines down, et cetera, throughout the area, and the problems will worsen throughout the afternoon.
[07:52.390 --> 07:56.630]  And it goes on to say stuff, this is a peculiar problem that happens almost never.
[07:57.030 --> 07:58.610]  In fact, it has never happened.
[08:05.890 --> 08:21.150]  So, I'm wondering if somebody from energy curtailment specialists, who can issue these kinds of dire warnings and commands to management at the hotel and other places, if someone from this company were to call and request some information.
[08:24.090 --> 08:24.970]  Don't look at me.
[08:29.600 --> 08:31.740]  I'm working on something here, so you guys keep going.
[08:31.820 --> 08:32.580]  You're not even listening.
[08:37.690 --> 08:39.830]  Well, who here knows the...
[08:39.830 --> 08:42.270]  Anybody here know what the phone number for the hotel is?
[08:43.790 --> 08:44.670]  Pennsylvania 65000.
[08:46.050 --> 08:47.190]  It's got to be in unison.
[08:49.630 --> 08:50.510]  Pennsylvania 65000.
[08:50.510 --> 08:51.270]  Very good.
[08:51.410 --> 08:51.630]  Very good.
[08:54.750 --> 08:56.030]  We need a horn section here.
[09:00.150 --> 09:00.510]  Well...
[09:00.510 --> 09:01.130]  Yes.
[09:01.510 --> 09:03.190]  We're going to call Pennsylvania 65000.
[09:03.290 --> 09:05.370]  I don't know if I even have your permission to do this, Emmanuel.
[09:05.590 --> 09:06.770]  No, I'm not doing the hotel.
[09:06.950 --> 09:07.150]  I'm sorry.
[09:07.310 --> 09:09.370]  Because that's shitting in your own bed.
[09:09.490 --> 09:09.870]  I'm sorry.
[09:13.840 --> 09:25.160]  But what I will do is take advantage of the fear that's currently surrounding us to maybe get some information I'm not supposed to get.
[09:26.180 --> 09:31.900]  And I have to say, this is like divine providence here, because I really didn't know what we were going to do.
[09:32.000 --> 09:32.300]  We've done...
[09:32.300 --> 09:33.580]  In the past, we've done Starbucks.
[09:33.780 --> 09:38.960]  We've got Starbucks to start reading us off their customer credit card transactions.
[09:41.160 --> 09:46.780]  We convinced Taco Bell last time to turn off their cash registers for five minutes and not serve anybody.
[09:53.310 --> 10:03.730]  A few years ago, we managed to transfer ourselves to the PA system of, I think, a Kmart and tell all the Sharpers that everything in aisle seven was free.
[10:09.750 --> 10:10.650]  Good, clean fun.
[10:10.750 --> 10:11.230]  Nobody got hurt.
[10:12.990 --> 10:19.510]  Okay, but what I'd like to do today is focus on what everybody in the city is talking about.
[10:19.510 --> 10:20.570]  Now, Bernie, you made reference.
[10:20.650 --> 10:21.590]  I'm sorry, I wasn't listening completely.
[10:21.750 --> 10:24.210]  But you were making reference to all the power problems.
[10:24.350 --> 10:28.390]  Are you guys aware that for the last seven days, there are places in Queens that have had no power?
[10:28.790 --> 10:30.690]  Queens being the borough right across the river.
[10:31.030 --> 10:31.810]  It's unbelievable.
[10:32.190 --> 10:33.930]  It's like they forgot how to do it.
[10:33.990 --> 10:36.790]  They forgot how to provide power to these places.
[10:37.370 --> 10:39.290]  Our power company is called Con Edison.
[10:40.310 --> 10:42.790]  Their first customer must have been named Edison or something.
[10:42.910 --> 10:43.270]  I don't know.
[10:46.270 --> 10:49.450]  I think Con is the definition turn here.
[10:49.670 --> 10:49.810]  Yeah.
[10:50.050 --> 10:54.650]  They're not the most popular entity in the city right now.
[10:54.810 --> 11:05.270]  So what we're gonna do is we're gonna call a place, a business, that may or may not be affected by the power problems.
[11:06.050 --> 11:09.210]  But regardless, well, if they are affected, they might not answer the phone.
[11:09.290 --> 11:12.210]  If they're not affected, they certainly know that there is a power situation.
[11:12.490 --> 11:19.850]  And my guess is that they'll be a little bit more gullible, a little bit more open with information than they should be.
[11:20.110 --> 11:22.790]  Now, is there a way to do this without me dialing the actual number?
[11:22.910 --> 11:24.350]  I mean, you hearing the number I'm dialing?
[11:25.410 --> 11:25.730]  Yeah?
[11:26.190 --> 11:26.310]  Okay.
[11:26.690 --> 11:27.170]  Gonna pick up.
[11:27.310 --> 11:27.890]  Let's hear the dial tone.
[11:29.550 --> 11:30.270]  Is there a dial tone?
[11:31.370 --> 11:31.870]  Okay, good.
[11:33.150 --> 11:34.150]  Don't use the push to talk.
[11:34.310 --> 11:35.190]  Just try it without it first.
[11:35.450 --> 11:36.110]  Try it without it?
[11:36.210 --> 11:36.370]  Yeah.
[11:37.210 --> 11:37.370]  Okay.
[11:37.490 --> 11:37.970]  Can I try it now?
[11:38.270 --> 11:38.410]  Yeah.
[11:38.690 --> 11:39.810]  I'm gonna test the microphone on this.
[11:40.130 --> 11:40.770]  Test one, two.
[11:41.950 --> 11:42.190]  Okay.
[11:43.010 --> 11:44.430]  Can you hear me on the microphone now?
[11:46.850 --> 11:47.750]  Can you hear me?
[11:47.770 --> 11:48.810]  No, they can't hear me through this.
[11:49.290 --> 11:52.430]  But if I press this button, then you can hear me.
[11:52.570 --> 11:52.730]  See?
[11:52.890 --> 11:53.570]  So it does work.
[11:53.710 --> 11:55.030]  And then I'm gonna press this.
[11:56.690 --> 11:57.670]  That's a click.
[11:57.670 --> 12:01.330]  So don't let go of the push to talk during the conversation or they're gonna hear a click.
[12:02.150 --> 12:02.750]  Got it.
[12:03.450 --> 12:03.530]  Okay.
[12:06.890 --> 12:07.290]  Okay.
[12:33.220 --> 12:34.420]  Three ringy thingies.
[12:34.480 --> 12:34.680]  Okay.
[12:34.720 --> 12:36.660]  This might be one of them with power problems.
[12:39.080 --> 12:40.640]  We're calling McDonald's, incidentally.
[12:51.400 --> 12:52.740]  McDonald's and Isai, can I help you?
[12:54.000 --> 12:54.400]  Yes.
[12:54.700 --> 12:56.840]  I'm trying to find out if...
[12:56.840 --> 12:58.060]  I'm sorry, I'm calling from Con Edison.
[12:58.580 --> 12:59.700]  I'm sorry, can I hear you?
[12:59.700 --> 13:00.620]  I'm calling to...
[13:00.620 --> 13:01.200]  Can you hear me?
[13:01.960 --> 13:02.600]  I'm sorry?
[13:02.940 --> 13:03.600]  Can you hear me?
[13:03.780 --> 13:04.340]  Yeah, I know.
[13:04.500 --> 13:05.920]  Okay, we're having a few phone problems here.
[13:06.700 --> 13:07.680]  I'm calling to...
[13:07.680 --> 13:12.560]  We had a call in to this number and we were wondering if the foreman had been to your location yet.
[13:14.360 --> 13:15.680]  Okay, hold on one minute.
[13:15.860 --> 13:16.120]  Thank you.
[13:16.300 --> 13:16.500]  Hold on.
[13:19.460 --> 13:21.380]  Do I sound sufficiently bored with my job?
[13:35.330 --> 13:36.130]  Is she getting Jose?
[13:37.790 --> 13:38.770]  That's what it sounds like.
[13:42.800 --> 13:45.280]  I should point out, when I'm talking, they can hear you.
[13:45.480 --> 13:47.800]  So, no screams of laughter or anything.
[13:52.010 --> 13:52.770]  What are they saying?
[13:52.850 --> 13:53.630]  I can hear voices.
[13:56.050 --> 13:57.770]  Is that Con Edison, those f*ckers?
[14:03.250 --> 14:03.970]  Excuse me?
[14:04.250 --> 14:09.570]  Can I help you?
[14:09.870 --> 14:10.770]  Yeah, who am I speaking with?
[14:11.370 --> 14:11.910]  Yeah, it's you.
[14:13.190 --> 14:13.470]  Hello?
[14:13.910 --> 14:14.170]  Hello?
[14:14.430 --> 14:14.690]  Yes.
[14:15.050 --> 14:17.570]  Hi, this is Reginald Mitnick at Con Edison.
[14:17.750 --> 14:20.410]  We were calling because we had a travel ticket opened on your location.
[14:20.670 --> 14:22.510]  We were wondering if the foreman had been there yet.
[14:23.270 --> 14:23.930]  Excuse me?
[14:24.710 --> 14:25.190]  Yes.
[14:25.190 --> 14:26.810]  We are calling about the power situation?
[14:28.290 --> 14:28.770]  No.
[14:29.810 --> 14:30.690]  Yes, we are.
[14:32.650 --> 14:36.150]  What is the current power status at your location?
[14:37.110 --> 14:37.950]  I don't know.
[14:38.090 --> 14:39.790]  This is very store manager.
[14:40.410 --> 14:41.870]  Are we reaching at McDonald's?
[14:42.130 --> 14:42.490]  Yes.
[14:42.890 --> 14:46.010]  Okay, we were told that the power had been fluctuating today.
[14:46.510 --> 14:47.550]  Are you getting...
[14:47.550 --> 14:48.010]  Give me one minute.
[14:48.170 --> 14:48.590]  Give me one minute.
[14:48.890 --> 14:49.950]  Give me one minute, please.
[14:50.230 --> 14:50.510]  Okay.
[14:52.050 --> 14:53.670]  They're getting the mega-supervisor now.
[14:53.790 --> 14:54.110]  I don't...
[14:58.030 --> 14:59.850]  We have them at the flustered stage.
[15:00.170 --> 15:01.650]  Like, they don't know what the hell is going on.
[15:04.110 --> 15:04.510]  Hello?
[15:04.930 --> 15:05.290]  Yes.
[15:06.350 --> 15:06.930]  Si, buenas?
[15:07.350 --> 15:08.170]  Hello, can you hear me?
[15:08.690 --> 15:09.050]  Yes.
[15:09.330 --> 15:09.530]  Okay.
[15:09.850 --> 15:13.630]  We're trying to fix the problem, but we need some information.
[15:14.910 --> 15:15.830]  What kind of problem?
[15:16.370 --> 15:18.710]  We understand there has been a power fluctuation.
[15:18.810 --> 15:22.530]  We got a call into this number, and we sent the foreman out there.
[15:22.530 --> 15:23.410]  The power?
[15:23.630 --> 15:23.950]  Yes.
[15:24.250 --> 15:25.670]  No, this has power over here.
[15:26.870 --> 15:31.130]  Okay, well then the problem might be that they didn't have the right account or something.
[15:31.870 --> 15:33.750]  Would you be able to verify the information for me?
[15:34.970 --> 15:37.390]  Let me just say... tell that to the manager, okay?
[15:37.590 --> 15:37.890]  Thank you.
[15:40.090 --> 15:41.650]  They put the damn manager on the phone.
[15:52.790 --> 15:53.590]  Excuse me.
[15:53.730 --> 15:57.210]  They're saying that the restaurant doesn't have any problems at all.
[15:57.770 --> 16:04.030]  Okay, well that in itself might be a problem because we have a report that your power was fluctuating.
[16:04.290 --> 16:07.590]  And it's possible that you might not be able to notice that yourself.
[16:07.770 --> 16:11.890]  Can you tell me if... is every... the businesses around you, do they have power?
[16:12.470 --> 16:13.470]  Every single one.
[16:14.030 --> 16:14.470]  They do?
[16:14.590 --> 16:15.610]  Have they had power for the last...
[16:15.610 --> 16:16.050]  One second.
[16:16.050 --> 16:16.570]  Yeah.
[16:16.830 --> 16:16.950]  Okay.
[16:18.350 --> 16:18.710]  Yes.
[16:23.450 --> 16:24.050]  Every single one.
[16:24.250 --> 16:27.270]  The problem is in Greenpoint.
[16:28.250 --> 16:30.950]  Okay, but the problem has been expanding in the past couple of days.
[16:31.050 --> 16:32.790]  I'm not sure if you've been following the reports.
[16:33.150 --> 16:35.250]  And we want to make sure that we headed off before...
[16:35.250 --> 16:37.290]  The problem is in Greenpoint.
[16:37.690 --> 16:44.490]  I understand that, but we need to know that there are no additional problems and we need to know if the foreman has been there and if he'll be able to get access.
[16:45.210 --> 16:50.230]  Oh, what you're saying is that... you just want information to see what else can be fixed?
[16:51.570 --> 16:56.590]  It's possible that there might be additional brownouts and we're trying to contact businesses before this happens.
[16:57.410 --> 17:05.950]  So what we need from you is your exact location, where your electric meter is, and additional information such as that.
[17:06.210 --> 17:07.250]  Do you have access to this?
[17:20.110 --> 17:23.250]  The manager says that he doesn't actually know.
[17:23.430 --> 17:26.810]  So he's saying that the general manager is going to come tomorrow.
[17:26.990 --> 17:28.210]  So maybe you can call tomorrow?
[17:28.790 --> 17:33.170]  Okay, but the problem is that if there is a fluctuation, it could severely damage your equipment.
[17:33.230 --> 17:35.110]  And we're trying to prevent that from happening.
[17:35.110 --> 17:38.850]  So if you could please cooperate and give me as much information as you can.
[17:38.990 --> 17:39.850]  We're trying to prevent that from happening.
[17:39.870 --> 17:40.170]  Are you going to turn the power off over here?
[17:40.790 --> 17:41.210]  I'm sorry?
[17:41.450 --> 17:42.610]  Are you going to turn the power off?
[17:42.710 --> 17:43.990]  No, we're not going to turn the power off.
[17:44.110 --> 17:46.430]  We're trying to prevent a power surge from occurring.
[17:46.590 --> 17:55.890]  And to do that we need to know your exact location, where the power meter is, if a foreman has been there yet, and any other information at all.
[17:56.050 --> 17:56.770]  Okay, one second.
[17:56.910 --> 17:57.190]  Thank you.
[18:11.530 --> 18:20.970]  The exact location is 3802 Quince Boulevard, and the power is in the basement of the restaurant.
[18:21.450 --> 18:25.110]  All right, would we have access to that today if we were to send the foreman back?
[18:26.970 --> 18:27.930]  What kind of access?
[18:28.070 --> 18:29.170]  You mean getting here?
[18:29.450 --> 18:31.310]  Getting to the power meter in the basement.
[18:34.010 --> 18:34.830]  Yes, they could.
[18:35.290 --> 18:35.650]  Yes, you could.
[18:36.170 --> 18:39.130]  All right, can you tell me what your hours are so we can send somebody by?
[18:43.730 --> 18:45.110]  It's 24 hours.
[18:46.730 --> 18:48.290]  And there will be somebody there 24 hours?
[18:48.550 --> 18:48.790]  Yes.
[18:49.030 --> 18:52.670]  One other problem that we're having is that your account is not coming up with this phone number.
[18:52.670 --> 18:57.830]  We received a trouble report from this number, but we don't have a matching account.
[18:58.050 --> 19:02.850]  Can you tell me if there are any other phone lines there that the account might be matched to?
[19:02.850 --> 19:04.170]  No, this is the only one.
[19:04.290 --> 19:05.230]  This is the only phone number.
[19:06.970 --> 19:07.730]  No, only one.
[19:08.530 --> 19:10.610]  All right, do you have access to your Con Edison bill?
[19:11.950 --> 19:14.010]  Sir, I don't have any kind of information.
[19:14.490 --> 19:16.670]  If you want, you can come over here to the restaurant, okay?
[19:17.110 --> 19:21.970]  All right, the problem is we're dealing with hundreds of businesses and we're just trying to make sure that they all are treated fairly.
[19:22.710 --> 19:26.070]  So whatever information you can give me, including names, anything like that would be helpful.
[19:26.070 --> 19:27.130]  I don't have any information, sir.
[19:28.230 --> 19:28.550]  Okay.
[19:30.030 --> 19:30.710]  Thanks for your help.
[19:30.890 --> 19:31.590]  Okay, thank you.
[19:32.530 --> 19:32.770]  All right.
[19:34.390 --> 19:35.710]  Language barriers can be real barriers.
[19:35.790 --> 19:36.650]  Well, I mean, that was ridiculous.
[19:36.870 --> 19:39.850]  I was like calling one in a foreign country or something where everything had to be translated.
[19:39.850 --> 19:40.750]  I was calling Queens.
[19:43.890 --> 19:50.710]  So, no, that wasn't the most successful of our attempts, but what we do have now is permission to go into their basement.
[19:51.970 --> 20:01.050]  So if I... please don't do this, but if anybody were to go over there and stay there with Con Edison, you'd have unfettered access to their equipment down there.
[20:01.390 --> 20:05.850]  It might be nice to dress up, I guess, but I'll bet you don't even have to do that.
[20:06.570 --> 20:18.810]  What I was trying to get was more information, and I think if I had gotten somebody that I could talk directly to, I would be able to get them to go into the office, get the Con Ed bill, get the account number, and through that, maybe more phone numbers.
[20:19.210 --> 20:24.670]  And as you can see, there's no reason you should stay on the phone with somebody who's talking nonsense that long.
[20:25.290 --> 20:33.930]  But you do when there's a situation, when there's a crisis going on, you stay on the phone so that the crisis doesn't hit you in some way, and everybody has heard about this.
[20:34.450 --> 20:40.930]  Unfortunately, I didn't call one that was closer to where the actual power problems were occurring, but probably those ones won't answer the phone at all.
[20:44.090 --> 20:44.970]  Any other ideas?
[20:45.350 --> 20:47.890]  I'm going to think of another one, but I've got to rest now.
[20:48.030 --> 20:50.610]  Well, didn't they say the problem was in Greenpoint?
[20:51.710 --> 20:52.070]  Astoria.
[20:52.630 --> 20:52.990]  Astoria?
[20:53.730 --> 20:54.950]  No, on the phone here.
[20:56.770 --> 20:59.270]  Woodside, Sunnyside, Greenpoint, Astoria, those places.
[21:00.550 --> 21:01.510]  Greenpoint is in Brooklyn.
[21:02.890 --> 21:04.610]  Yeah, I think Greenpoint is okay, actually.
[21:04.970 --> 21:06.450]  I don't think their information is quite right.
[21:06.690 --> 21:08.270]  The Queens along the river sounds like it's...
[21:08.270 --> 21:08.530]  Okay.
[21:09.070 --> 21:10.070]  We do have a Sunnyside.
[21:10.210 --> 21:10.730]  You know what?
[21:10.810 --> 21:14.070]  Let's try this one on Sunnyside, but I'm afraid that they won't answer at all.
[21:14.210 --> 21:15.350]  But we'll find out.
[21:53.860 --> 21:55.860]  What happens when you're in McDonald's with no power?
[21:57.060 --> 21:58.380]  Don't even come into work.
[22:29.680 --> 22:30.980]  I think it turned out.
[22:31.660 --> 22:31.740]  Okay.
[22:32.740 --> 22:33.340]  Keep trying.
[22:35.780 --> 22:36.700]  Keep talking about it.
[22:37.020 --> 22:39.560]  Is there a... do we know for sure what areas were affected?
[22:39.840 --> 22:40.660]  Yeah, we just...
[22:40.660 --> 22:42.160]  We need to call an area that has...
[22:42.160 --> 22:43.220]  That was an area that was affected.
[22:43.380 --> 22:44.380]  That's why they didn't answer the phone.
[22:44.640 --> 22:45.080]  No panic.
[22:45.760 --> 22:47.380]  Well, try another number in that area.
[22:47.380 --> 22:47.740]  Yeah.
[22:47.940 --> 22:48.320]  That's what we're doing.
[22:48.480 --> 22:49.040]  Looking for that.
[22:50.020 --> 22:51.240]  Because they're already panicking.
[22:51.460 --> 22:53.480]  And if they're panicking, they're liable to be able to tell you anything.
[22:54.140 --> 22:54.340]  Okay.
[23:13.880 --> 23:14.280]  Oh.
[23:19.410 --> 23:20.750]  Does anybody have a modem?
[23:24.150 --> 23:25.630]  Well, that's not very smart, is it?
[23:28.450 --> 23:29.390]  Well, they have something.
[23:30.010 --> 23:32.190]  I'm going to hang up and call it fast.
[23:32.370 --> 23:34.150]  Maybe I'll bounce over to a voice line.
[23:46.550 --> 23:48.070]  One line and it's going to a modem.
[23:49.410 --> 23:49.630]  Yeah.
[23:49.770 --> 23:50.550]  We'll keep looking.
[23:52.330 --> 23:53.590]  Cheshire, you haven't said anything in a while.
[23:55.630 --> 23:59.910]  Any stories of social engineering in the past that you remember?
[23:59.910 --> 24:01.210]  Oh, golly.
[24:01.410 --> 24:07.170]  Well, there was the time when, back when I was hacking the world telex network.
[24:08.030 --> 24:09.650]  I had found the TWX teletype network.
[24:09.770 --> 24:12.230]  TWX stands for Teletype Writer Exchange.
[24:12.830 --> 24:14.990]  The phone company had set it up, AT&T.
[24:15.570 --> 24:19.130]  It was set up with Bell 103 modems on Model 33 teletypes.
[24:19.290 --> 24:22.510]  And it was a completely separate network from the telephone system.
[24:22.510 --> 24:22.890]  Yeah.
[24:23.110 --> 24:23.550]  B.S.
[24:25.290 --> 24:35.870]  Well, if you dialed 212640 in the last four digits of the TWX number, you heard the modem tone through your handset and the acoustic coupler and you were a TWX machine.
[24:36.030 --> 24:37.350]  You could send the message to that machine.
[24:37.910 --> 24:48.010]  A number of companies such as RCA Global Communications, ITT WorldCom, had TWX to telex converters to then carry you overseas to overseas telex machines.
[24:48.370 --> 24:52.210]  So I had access to every telex machine outside of North America.
[24:53.330 --> 24:54.670]  Well, I was greedy.
[24:54.850 --> 24:55.690]  I wanted North America.
[24:57.110 --> 25:12.470]  Western Union Telegraph had their InfoMaster computer that would do store and forward messaging, where you'd dump the message in in this special format, which was available in the front pages of the TWX directory, and they would then forward the message on to the telex machine of your choice.
[25:13.430 --> 25:22.870]  Well, it seems to me that with all the traffic going from New York to their InfoMaster computer in Bridgeton, Missouri, that they have lines in New York to go through.
[25:23.910 --> 25:24.350]  Okay.
[25:24.710 --> 25:27.050]  So I called the wire room in Upper Saddle River, New Jersey.
[25:27.690 --> 25:28.130]  Hi.
[25:28.350 --> 25:31.250]  This is Joe in the wire room at Broadway and 48th Street.
[25:31.410 --> 25:33.110]  I need the back door number into InfoMaster.
[25:33.870 --> 25:34.310]  What?
[25:35.330 --> 25:36.510]  I've never heard of such a thing.
[25:37.210 --> 25:37.650]  Oh.
[25:37.970 --> 25:38.310]  Okay.
[25:38.510 --> 25:38.810]  Thank you.
[25:38.950 --> 25:39.170]  Click.
[25:39.910 --> 25:40.450]  Let's see.
[25:40.450 --> 25:42.390]  What's the number for the wire room in Broadway and 48th Street?
[25:42.530 --> 25:42.630]  Ah.
[25:42.810 --> 25:43.010]  Here we are.
[25:44.490 --> 25:44.850]  Hi.
[25:45.030 --> 25:49.190]  This is Joe in Upper Saddle River, corporate headquarters, and I need the back door number into InfoMaster.
[25:49.830 --> 25:50.190]  Huh?
[25:50.330 --> 25:50.570]  What?
[25:50.710 --> 25:51.870]  I ain't never heard of such a thing.
[25:52.730 --> 25:53.090]  Okay.
[25:53.230 --> 25:53.510]  Thank you.
[25:55.190 --> 26:08.130]  And one night, sitting alone in the store, the computer store on 39th Street near Sixth Avenue, I had access to an ADM3 terminal, a modem, and a phone line.
[26:08.850 --> 26:14.470]  So I went 6-2, let's see, 2-1-2, 6-4-0, and I just started punching in random things.
[26:14.570 --> 26:15.270]  Five, five, five, five.
[26:16.510 --> 26:17.570]  And I hear the tone.
[26:17.750 --> 26:19.170]  I put the handset in the acoustic coupler.
[26:19.350 --> 26:21.210]  It would give me the answer back of the machine.
[26:21.330 --> 26:24.890]  Now this is so that you know you're reaching the right machine so you're not sending corporate secrets to the wrong party.
[26:26.490 --> 26:28.770]  So up comes the answer back.
[26:29.230 --> 26:30.410]  CBS Special Events.
[26:30.590 --> 26:31.330]  No, that's not it.
[26:33.970 --> 26:34.850]  IBM NYK.
[26:35.110 --> 26:35.590]  No, that's not it.
[26:35.690 --> 26:37.530]  NYK being the official telex abbreviation for New York.
[26:39.090 --> 26:41.070]  You know, Mormac Ship NYK.
[26:41.830 --> 26:42.810]  Mormacormick Shipping Lines.
[26:42.870 --> 26:43.430]  That's not it.
[26:45.090 --> 26:45.970]  FBI NYK.
[26:46.130 --> 26:46.930]  No, that's not it.
[26:49.550 --> 26:50.810]  And WSU InfoMaster.
[26:51.550 --> 26:52.410]  I found it.
[26:52.430 --> 26:53.030]  It exists.
[26:53.190 --> 26:54.510]  There is this back door number.
[26:54.510 --> 26:55.110]  WSU.
[26:55.790 --> 26:56.750]  What number did I do?
[26:56.930 --> 26:57.390]  Oh, no.
[26:57.850 --> 26:59.690]  After two hours of doing this.
[26:59.790 --> 27:01.970]  It's going to be another hour to get back to that number.
[27:02.690 --> 27:04.630]  But it started with the phishing expedition.
[27:04.890 --> 27:06.670]  Hi, this is Joe at the wire room.
[27:07.070 --> 27:08.690]  But they just didn't know.
[27:09.250 --> 27:13.490]  They had no clue that it was even interconnected with the phone network.
[27:14.710 --> 27:16.410]  AT&T lied and everybody believed it.
[27:17.490 --> 27:21.170]  Except some curious little hacker in New York City.
[27:24.030 --> 27:25.470]  So what did you do with that information?
[27:26.650 --> 27:29.770]  Well, I was able to send mail grams at the time.
[27:30.270 --> 27:31.670]  Western Union had to deal with the post office.
[27:31.790 --> 27:33.830]  They had printers in the post office.
[27:34.010 --> 27:35.950]  Every major post office around the country.
[27:35.950 --> 27:41.190]  You would format the message using the format shown in the front pages of the TWX or the Telex directory.
[27:41.950 --> 27:49.090]  And it would root via the ZIP Code, print out in the nearest post office and be delivered in the next day's mail.
[27:49.090 --> 27:52.930]  You could send these things before midnight and have delivered the next day.
[27:53.030 --> 27:54.470]  It cost about $2.50 or so.
[27:55.230 --> 27:57.090]  And they were charged to your TWX machine.
[27:59.550 --> 28:01.630]  Now, about billing on the TWX network.
[28:02.970 --> 28:07.690]  Every teletype machine has in it an answer back wheel that is programmed with an identity code.
[28:09.330 --> 28:11.830]  The maximum number of characters is 14.
[28:11.830 --> 28:14.530]  There are actually 20 characters available on the wheel.
[28:14.670 --> 28:17.550]  But you need character turn, line feed, control Q.
[28:18.390 --> 28:19.510]  And I think they went through other characters.
[28:19.870 --> 28:24.050]  It wound up that your maximum text space was 14 characters.
[28:24.550 --> 28:33.750]  I used TWX space, the letter R, the number 4 space, P-H-R-E-A-K-S.
[28:33.930 --> 28:35.210]  TWX are for freaks.
[28:36.930 --> 28:38.450]  That was my answer back.
[28:40.750 --> 28:44.610]  Well, one day I'm driving through northern New Jersey.
[28:44.910 --> 28:46.250]  Little town of Mahwah.
[28:47.930 --> 28:51.250]  And West Union has a facility out there where they repair teletype machines.
[28:51.670 --> 28:57.370]  I swear if I could dump you down that machine every day for a month, I could build a Model 33 and a Model 32 teletype.
[28:57.890 --> 29:01.250]  Probably one of each from all the parts I found in the bins there.
[29:01.410 --> 29:04.310]  And there's a lot of parts in a Model 33 teletype machine.
[29:05.210 --> 29:07.830]  And they weigh like, what, about 75, 100 pounds?
[29:07.830 --> 29:08.130]  Yeah.
[29:08.490 --> 29:08.770]  Very heavy ones.
[29:09.290 --> 29:10.610]  I cut my teeth in one of those too.
[29:10.790 --> 29:14.230]  There's all these little levers and springs and sprockets and gears.
[29:15.090 --> 29:16.910]  It's an amazing mechanical machine.
[29:17.890 --> 29:23.770]  So I'm going through the dumpster and I find a printout about, yay high, 300 pages or so of printout.
[29:23.930 --> 29:24.950]  And I look it over.
[29:25.570 --> 29:27.510]  Huh, these kind of look like answer backs.
[29:28.930 --> 29:32.890]  You know, there are some answer backs where, you know, one or two characters have gotten garbled.
[29:33.010 --> 29:33.750]  You can tell what they are.
[29:33.910 --> 29:37.030]  There's others where it's composed strictly of all numbers and punctuation marks.
[29:37.150 --> 29:39.610]  Oh, this is where it's in figures mode.
[29:39.770 --> 29:42.830]  And if I just translate to letters mode, it'll come up with a valid answer back.
[29:42.990 --> 29:44.890]  But the computer's too dumb to figure that out, I guess.
[29:45.290 --> 29:47.310]  And they've got 300 pages of the...
[29:47.310 --> 29:48.710]  Wait a minute, what's the date on this?
[29:49.190 --> 29:50.210]  Hey, last week.
[29:51.150 --> 29:53.330]  I sent four mailgrams last week.
[29:53.450 --> 29:53.810]  Let me see.
[29:54.010 --> 29:56.430]  T, T, T, T, TWX.
[29:56.590 --> 29:57.690]  TWX are four freaks.
[29:57.790 --> 29:58.370]  One, two, three, four.
[29:58.450 --> 29:59.070]  There they are.
[30:00.330 --> 30:03.790]  The four messages in 300 pages of printout.
[30:04.550 --> 30:06.190]  Hey, if they can find me, they can have me.
[30:08.470 --> 30:09.850]  I never did hear from any of them.
[30:10.890 --> 30:19.970]  Years later, well, not that, a couple years later, I was sending messages to ships at sea via Marisat, the Maritime Communications Satellite.
[30:23.410 --> 30:31.610]  Now, Marisat probably didn't have 300 pages of printout at the time, because it was very early in their career, and all their messages went to MagTape.
[30:32.430 --> 30:40.750]  I can just... I've always pictured in my mind the scene where the exception report comes out and they see, TWX are four freaks.
[30:42.690 --> 30:45.210]  Holy flying fornication, we're being hacked.
[30:45.410 --> 30:47.270]  Quick, pull the MagTape.
[30:47.430 --> 30:54.870]  A minion runs to the tape library, pulls down the MagTape based on the date-time group on the thing, throws it up on the tape drive, runs the printout out.
[30:55.110 --> 30:55.650]  They look at it.
[30:56.790 --> 30:57.590]  Holy stuff.
[30:57.870 --> 30:59.530]  This guy is breaking into our system.
[30:59.710 --> 31:03.790]  He is blowing security all to hell and gone, and he's being friendly?
[31:04.730 --> 31:06.070]  They never could figure me out.
[31:07.030 --> 31:11.370]  The thing is that I was sitting on shore with all the publicly available literature on how to operate this stuff.
[31:11.370 --> 31:13.770]  Here are the poor schmucks sitting on the ships at sea.
[31:13.950 --> 31:18.650]  Now, I find out the format for the numbers and figure out how to, you know, place calls to ships.
[31:19.730 --> 31:20.890]  And so I get to a ship.
[31:21.070 --> 31:23.110]  Hi, this is Cheshire, a computer hacker in New York City.
[31:23.250 --> 31:24.910]  Does anyone have time to sit and chat out there?
[31:26.390 --> 31:28.350]  I am reaching a ship's radio officer.
[31:29.210 --> 31:30.670]  Hundreds of miles at sea.
[31:31.290 --> 31:35.610]  Absolutely nothing to do but sit and chat, especially on someone else's nickel.
[31:36.190 --> 31:36.590]  Boring.
[31:38.730 --> 31:40.810]  And SAP time was, you know, fairly expensive.
[31:41.030 --> 31:42.790]  About six bucks a minute or something at that time.
[31:44.070 --> 31:46.550]  And, you know, we sit, we chat.
[31:46.790 --> 31:47.970]  This one guy comes back.
[31:48.110 --> 31:54.790]  You know, RCA gave me what they called a Unicode to get me back to my head office and I can't figure out how the heck to use the thing.
[31:55.790 --> 31:56.270]  Mom please.
[31:56.690 --> 31:57.750]  M-O-M-P-L-S.
[31:57.870 --> 32:00.190]  The official telex abbreviation for, you know, please wait a moment.
[32:00.570 --> 32:02.830]  And I go pick up my RCA book and I come through.
[32:02.830 --> 32:12.290]  And I found the one thing that the RCA guy never bothered to tell the man because why would anyone switch from RCA Global Communications to using any other network?
[32:13.090 --> 32:16.930]  Take the carrier ID thumb wheel and turn it to two for RCA.
[32:17.510 --> 32:20.870]  Hit one asterisk and it should get you right to your home office.
[32:21.730 --> 32:25.550]  And, you know, this is the kind of thing I would do, is trying to be helpful.
[32:26.010 --> 32:26.930]  I am the hacker.
[32:27.110 --> 32:28.610]  I know how to play with this stuff.
[32:28.770 --> 32:31.050]  These, you know, poor guys just have to try and use it every day.
[32:32.470 --> 32:34.650]  I visited a couple of ships when they came to port.
[32:35.050 --> 32:36.150]  Had a great time.
[32:36.710 --> 32:42.490]  The nearest Earth station, by the way, is in Connecticut, Southbury, Connecticut.
[32:43.410 --> 32:45.090]  It's now the InMarsat system.
[32:45.210 --> 32:47.830]  But in those days, it was InMarsat owned by ComSat General.
[32:49.310 --> 32:52.170]  So I am going to the West Coast Computer Fair one year.
[32:53.450 --> 32:55.550]  And my girlfriend and I are going to be driving up the coast.
[32:57.430 --> 33:02.250]  Let's call the folks in Santa Paula, California, see if I can get a tour of the Earth Station.
[33:02.410 --> 33:05.530]  I want to be thousands of miles from home when I go visit an Earth Station.
[33:06.650 --> 33:10.530]  Hi, this is Cheshire and I operate InMarsat.
[33:11.570 --> 33:12.850]  And I am wondering if I can get a tour of the Earth Station.
[33:13.290 --> 33:15.170]  Oh, well, I am sorry.
[33:15.370 --> 33:18.010]  The station manager is out of town just now.
[33:18.270 --> 33:20.930]  But I am the station engineer and I would be happy to show you around.
[33:24.090 --> 33:25.370]  So we get out there.
[33:26.010 --> 33:27.390]  We are taking the tour of my girlfriend.
[33:27.390 --> 33:29.370]  asking one question as we are passing by the company bulletin board.
[33:29.490 --> 33:30.310]  You know, company bulletin boards.
[33:30.490 --> 33:31.970]  There is the local softball games.
[33:32.190 --> 33:33.270]  The company picnic coming up.
[33:33.430 --> 33:34.510]  The telex from Washington.
[33:34.710 --> 33:36.710]  Dire warnings from electric companies.
[33:37.110 --> 33:37.530]  Yeah.
[33:38.810 --> 33:39.990]  The telex from Washington.
[33:41.150 --> 33:46.410]  If this Aussie character comes up on your screen, hit your figsy immediately to get his answer back.
[33:47.410 --> 33:47.850]  Welp.
[33:49.930 --> 33:53.270]  So I guess your system is getting a bit hacked, huh?
[33:54.070 --> 33:55.950]  Yeah, we think so, yeah.
[33:55.950 --> 34:00.070]  And then we went in to talk to the italics operators.
[34:00.270 --> 34:02.550]  And I told them about visiting one of the ships.
[34:04.950 --> 34:07.530]  My buddy Antonio on the italica.
[34:07.910 --> 34:14.610]  Where he has got to sit there listening to the ear cans from Rome and typing into the ditto stencil.
[34:14.850 --> 34:16.430]  So he can run off a daily newspaper for the crew.
[34:16.730 --> 34:18.690]  Because the satellite is too expensive to use all the time.
[34:19.230 --> 34:21.130]  He has got to run up and down the ladders with messages to the captain.
[34:21.470 --> 34:23.190]  He has got to keep his radars working.
[34:26.930 --> 34:30.690]  And now you guys want to learn all these new computer procedures running your telex machines.
[34:31.190 --> 34:35.550]  Ladies, any work they can slough off on you to have you place their calls for them, they are going to do it.
[34:36.610 --> 34:40.670]  And I turned to my host who gave me this whole new look of respect because I knew what I was talking about.
[34:40.890 --> 34:41.770]  I had been out to ships.
[34:43.170 --> 34:44.330]  But it was fun.
[34:44.450 --> 34:46.150]  Those were really great days.
[34:46.150 --> 34:46.750]  Okay.
[34:47.730 --> 34:51.370]  We found a McDonald's that actually answers the phone in the affected area.
[34:51.530 --> 34:52.570]  And we are going to give that a shot.
[34:52.990 --> 34:55.970]  And then we have a couple of other ideas of other things to do.
[34:56.130 --> 34:59.930]  But I just want to add a quick story to that.
[35:00.090 --> 35:01.390]  Because it reminded me of something.
[35:01.630 --> 35:08.510]  That you can basically get people to do all sorts of things if you can just convince them that you are somebody in a position of authority.
[35:08.510 --> 35:17.250]  And there have been some monumental examples of that here in New York where some friends of mine were able to actually call a phone company.
[35:17.430 --> 35:19.430]  It was New York Telephone back when they were around.
[35:20.650 --> 35:25.650]  And tell them that the new badges were being issued for Monday.
[35:25.770 --> 35:27.590]  And they said this to the Night Watchmen.
[35:27.750 --> 35:35.530]  And that they needed to collect their old badges first before they could deliver them.
[35:35.530 --> 35:38.090]  And they would be sending a messenger around to pick them up.
[35:39.790 --> 35:42.010]  I don't know what kind of people they hire.
[35:42.210 --> 35:43.070]  But good Lord.
[35:45.290 --> 35:48.390]  A stack of IDs of all these people inside a company.
[35:48.630 --> 35:50.150]  And God knows what you can do with that.
[35:50.270 --> 35:52.910]  Of course, you know, nobody looked anything like them.
[35:52.990 --> 35:53.910]  But still, I mean, come on.
[35:54.050 --> 35:55.490]  You are giving away your ID for God's sake.
[35:55.710 --> 35:57.190]  Another time, manuals.
[35:57.370 --> 35:59.370]  Yeah, we are switching the manuals.
[35:59.410 --> 36:01.390]  We need, you know, for the Cosmos system.
[36:01.490 --> 36:03.070]  We need the old manuals.
[36:03.130 --> 36:04.670]  Please leave them in the loading zone.
[36:04.670 --> 36:05.710]  Couldn't have been easier.
[36:07.190 --> 36:08.230]  So people are gullible.
[36:08.350 --> 36:09.830]  They'll do what you ask sometimes.
[36:09.990 --> 36:11.310]  Let's see if we can find one of them here.
[36:31.070 --> 36:31.770]  Hello, McDonald's.
[36:31.870 --> 36:32.170]  May I help you?
[36:32.330 --> 36:32.710]  Yeah, hi.
[36:32.790 --> 36:35.210]  I'm calling from Con Edison to confirm the power problems in your area.
[36:36.450 --> 36:36.950]  Hold on a second.
[36:37.170 --> 36:37.390]  Thank you.
[36:39.930 --> 36:40.250]  Hello?
[36:40.590 --> 36:41.090]  Yes, hi.
[36:41.150 --> 36:41.810]  I'm calling from Con Edison.
[36:42.730 --> 36:44.630]  We've received a trouble report at this location.
[36:45.030 --> 36:45.510]  I'm sorry?
[36:51.030 --> 36:51.470]  Hello?
[36:51.970 --> 36:51.990]  Hello?
[36:51.990 --> 36:52.370]  Can you hear me?
[36:52.750 --> 36:52.950]  Yes.
[36:53.190 --> 36:54.770]  What is your power situation?
[36:54.950 --> 36:55.950]  I'm calling from Con Edison.
[36:55.950 --> 36:58.110]  So now we're okay.
[36:58.270 --> 36:58.670]  We're fine.
[36:59.290 --> 36:59.610]  Okay.
[36:59.710 --> 37:01.450]  How long has the power been on?
[37:03.530 --> 37:06.950]  Well, I'm just a manager, but I haven't been here for the whole week.
[37:07.690 --> 37:08.830]  I was on vacation.
[37:08.950 --> 37:09.930]  I just stepped by today.
[37:10.510 --> 37:13.910]  But I believe that the thing happened on Monday.
[37:14.430 --> 37:17.130]  And until today, so we got the whole thing going on.
[37:17.450 --> 37:17.770]  Okay.
[37:17.930 --> 37:24.990]  Because we have been having scattered outages in your area, and we're trying to check with the businesses there to see if there's been a problem today.
[37:25.770 --> 37:28.370]  Can you tell me what your exact location is?
[37:29.510 --> 37:32.490]  32-55, 31st Street.
[37:33.150 --> 37:34.610]  This is Long Island City, New York.
[37:36.630 --> 37:37.710]  Seacode 1106.
[37:38.110 --> 37:38.550]  Okay.
[37:38.550 --> 37:41.030]  And do you know where your electric meter is located?
[37:42.110 --> 37:42.930]  It's in the basement.
[37:43.310 --> 37:45.390]  And will we be able to get access to that today?
[37:45.570 --> 37:45.850]  Yes.
[37:46.630 --> 37:46.990]  Okay.
[37:47.170 --> 37:48.970]  And who would we speak to in order to get that access?
[37:50.270 --> 37:51.330]  Just ask for the manager.
[37:51.930 --> 37:52.590]  Do you have a name?
[37:53.190 --> 37:54.610]  Well, I've got Lois over here.
[37:54.810 --> 37:56.830]  If you come after four, it's going to be dancing.
[37:58.910 --> 37:59.270]  Okay.
[38:00.070 --> 38:04.010]  And one other problem we had is that the phone number does not seem to match the account.
[38:04.350 --> 38:05.790]  Is there a different phone number there?
[38:06.050 --> 38:06.310]  Yeah.
[38:06.310 --> 38:07.010]  718.
[38:08.450 --> 38:08.810]  Okay.
[38:08.810 --> 38:10.530]  I mean, it's the same phone number that you just called.
[38:11.250 --> 38:11.610]  Because...
[38:11.610 --> 38:15.590]  That number is not showing up as part of the account.
[38:16.090 --> 38:16.210]  Yeah.
[38:16.450 --> 38:19.390]  I think you got 728, something like that.
[38:20.670 --> 38:21.510]  9727, right?
[38:22.030 --> 38:23.290]  No, that's not the number we called.
[38:23.670 --> 38:24.930]  Can you tell me what that number is?
[38:25.250 --> 38:27.290]  No, the only number is the one that you just called.
[38:28.170 --> 38:30.250]  Because we used to have two lines before.
[38:31.310 --> 38:32.830]  But the other line, we canceled it out.
[38:32.950 --> 38:33.950]  We only got this one now.
[38:35.250 --> 38:35.610]  Okay.
[38:36.250 --> 38:36.610]  Uh...
[38:36.610 --> 38:38.890]  Would you happen to have access to your Con Edison record?
[38:39.010 --> 38:40.010]  Maybe we could do it that way.
[38:41.510 --> 38:42.090]  I'm sorry?
[38:42.350 --> 38:44.970]  Would you have access to your Con Edison billing records?
[38:45.010 --> 38:46.310]  Because we might be able to do it that way.
[38:46.430 --> 38:49.450]  Because we can't match your location to the account.
[38:49.590 --> 38:50.170]  That's the problem.
[38:51.390 --> 38:54.090]  Well, we also got an office phone number.
[38:54.550 --> 38:55.270]  Main office.
[38:55.430 --> 38:57.870]  And they say the one in charge of paying all the bills and everything.
[38:58.850 --> 38:59.130]  Okay.
[38:59.270 --> 39:00.570]  Maybe the acquisition better with that.
[39:00.650 --> 39:03.570]  Because when I got here, we got this phone number.
[39:03.990 --> 39:05.210]  The one that you just called.
[39:05.310 --> 39:06.050]  This is the one we using.
[39:06.510 --> 39:08.490]  I know before they also had a previous one.
[39:08.690 --> 39:11.850]  Because this one used to be the fax number only.
[39:12.510 --> 39:14.790]  And then the other one was to be the operational number.
[39:14.910 --> 39:15.850]  But I'm not sure.
[39:16.130 --> 39:16.970]  Do you have that number?
[39:17.290 --> 39:17.650]  Yes.
[39:17.650 --> 39:17.690]  Yes.
[39:18.070 --> 39:19.570]  But they open on Monday.
[39:20.390 --> 39:23.650]  It's 631-698.
[39:26.970 --> 39:27.410]  Okay.
[39:28.910 --> 39:32.430]  And you don't have access to any paperwork perhaps from Con Edison?
[39:32.610 --> 39:36.050]  Because that would be very helpful if we were able to actually have an account number or something.
[39:36.990 --> 39:37.950]  No, I don't.
[39:38.130 --> 39:38.710]  To tell you the truth.
[39:39.810 --> 39:40.250]  Okay.
[39:41.470 --> 39:46.290]  Let's let us know if there's any power problems or any situations that we should be aware of.
[39:46.470 --> 39:47.890]  I said right now everything is fine.
[39:51.610 --> 39:54.270]  Are you using 100% of your power?
[39:55.330 --> 39:55.810]  Yes.
[39:55.990 --> 39:56.510]  All right.
[39:57.170 --> 39:58.210]  Please do us a favor.
[39:58.370 --> 40:03.210]  If you could possibly cut maybe half of your cash registers just to save some power.
[40:03.730 --> 40:06.150]  It might prevent another brownout from occurring.
[40:06.270 --> 40:06.990]  Would you be able to do that?
[40:07.690 --> 40:09.030]  The cash register, no.
[40:09.270 --> 40:11.410]  I mean, I'm just using like two of them.
[40:11.950 --> 40:12.450]  I'm sorry?
[40:12.450 --> 40:12.470]  All right.
[40:12.610 --> 40:13.890]  Because I'm just using two of them.
[40:13.970 --> 40:14.950]  I cannot go on to that.
[40:16.470 --> 40:18.090]  Could you maybe turn some lights out?
[40:18.570 --> 40:19.270]  No, lights.
[40:19.350 --> 40:20.730]  All the lights out, they're off.
[40:21.490 --> 40:22.270]  The lights are off?
[40:22.370 --> 40:23.170]  Yeah, the lights are off.
[40:23.930 --> 40:24.170]  Okay.
[40:24.430 --> 40:25.790]  And how about the air conditioning?
[40:26.630 --> 40:30.230]  In some of the, you know, the lobby, some of them they're off.
[40:30.370 --> 40:32.790]  Because some of them they're not working due to the power plumber.
[40:33.670 --> 40:35.390]  And just in the lobby, it's still on.
[40:35.490 --> 40:37.550]  And we cannot turn it off by the other customer they're going to leave.
[40:37.890 --> 40:39.410]  Well, what I need you to do is this.
[40:39.650 --> 40:41.470]  Because it is a rather cool day today.
[40:41.470 --> 40:49.150]  If at all possible, if you could cut the air conditioning building wide, that would greatly increase the chances of another brownout not occurring.
[40:49.450 --> 40:52.150]  So if you could please try and look into that, that would be very helpful.
[40:52.850 --> 40:53.130]  Okay.
[40:55.250 --> 40:55.690]  All right?
[40:55.890 --> 40:56.290]  All right.
[40:56.550 --> 40:56.750]  All right.
[40:56.830 --> 40:57.010]  Thank you.
[40:57.110 --> 40:57.950]  And what was your name, sir?
[40:58.130 --> 40:59.250]  My name is Rafael Peña.
[40:59.530 --> 41:00.710]  Rafael, thank you so much for your help.
[41:00.830 --> 41:01.130]  All right.
[41:01.230 --> 41:01.470]  Thank you.
[41:01.710 --> 41:01.870]  Good night.
[41:09.680 --> 41:18.220]  So, if you'd like a warm McDonald's, you might want to visit 32, 55, 31st Street in Astoria today and see what they do with the air conditioning.
[41:19.360 --> 41:21.320]  I would have liked to have gotten more information out of them.
[41:21.460 --> 41:25.640]  But, you know, I think we're dealing with corporate franchises here where they don't actually get the bills themselves.
[41:25.860 --> 41:27.160]  There's only a limited amount of things you can do.
[41:27.260 --> 41:29.880]  But you can find out things like, oh, where's access?
[41:30.020 --> 41:30.760]  Can I get access?
[41:31.320 --> 41:32.420]  Who are these people's names?
[41:32.540 --> 41:33.420]  What are other phone numbers?
[41:34.100 --> 41:38.480]  And just basically, you've got to get them thinking that you're on their side, that you're working with them.
[41:38.640 --> 41:43.320]  And before you know it, you can be kind of obnoxious and say things like, I need you to do this for me.
[41:43.500 --> 41:44.920]  It's like, who the f*ck are you?
[41:45.000 --> 41:46.120]  Why should I do anything for you?
[41:46.340 --> 41:47.660]  But that's what people do.
[41:47.800 --> 41:50.780]  If you ever have somebody say that to you, you are being social engineered.
[41:50.940 --> 41:52.000]  Cops say that all the time.
[41:53.020 --> 41:57.680]  People in all sorts of positions of semi-authority will say, I need you to do this.
[41:57.780 --> 41:59.460]  Well, that's too bad, because I'm not going to do it.
[42:00.000 --> 42:00.960]  That's my reaction.
[42:01.900 --> 42:02.280]  Okay.
[42:02.380 --> 42:02.820]  That's one thing.
[42:03.000 --> 42:06.080]  We have a couple of things to try, but any other stories?
[42:06.240 --> 42:12.300]  Actually, Kevin, number two, you're with an organization called Telephreak, which is a bunch of cool people.
[42:12.420 --> 42:13.360]  They do good things.
[42:14.000 --> 42:17.560]  You want to tell us something about what these guys are up to, phone-wise?
[42:19.800 --> 42:29.300]  Well, basically, Telephreak started out being as a way to get anonymous free voicemail, and then we've expanded upon phone conferences using the Asterisk system.
[42:29.600 --> 42:42.340]  So, basically, we run a conference that allows people from all over the world to basically call in free using VoIP and just discuss things that relate to phones, hacking, social engineering, and all things like that.
[42:42.740 --> 42:46.220]  So, that's really all I can say.
[42:47.280 --> 42:48.960]  Do you guys do any social engineering?
[42:50.860 --> 42:51.220]  Plenty.
[42:52.920 --> 42:53.500]  Well, go on.
[42:53.520 --> 42:54.520]  Give us an example of something.
[42:54.700 --> 42:56.300]  I'll try to find another phone number here.
[42:58.920 --> 43:10.480]  Well, I guess, basically, my greatest feat was getting an operator to think I was the fire warden and three-waying the operator, the conference, into an elevator in Michigan.
[43:11.520 --> 43:19.920]  So, during rush hour in the elevator, I was talking to people in the elevator, having them push buttons, go to different floors, get off, get on.
[43:25.860 --> 43:29.980]  And the whole time, the operator had no idea what's going on.
[43:31.560 --> 43:34.520]  So, I mean, I guess that's not exactly social engineering.
[43:34.680 --> 43:35.620]  It's more being a bastard.
[43:37.680 --> 43:38.460]  Fine lines.
[43:40.300 --> 43:40.780]  Yeah.
[43:43.720 --> 43:44.200]  Okay.
[43:44.360 --> 43:46.900]  Well, that's educational, constructive.
[43:49.540 --> 43:50.660]  But, yeah, you can have fun.
[43:50.660 --> 44:00.520]  It's like what we do with that old Taco Bell thing, you know, where we tell people, we're having trouble, honk your horn twice for a sound check, and people just do whatever you tell them to do.
[44:00.740 --> 44:02.460]  Could you race your engine for us?
[44:03.600 --> 44:05.240]  Give the finger to the person in the window.
[44:05.360 --> 44:05.980]  Thank you very much.
[44:08.640 --> 44:09.000]  Okay.
[44:09.120 --> 44:20.940]  What I'd like to try now, and we are running a little short on time, and Jello is going to be coming up after us, but sometimes, sometimes your best victims are the people who really should be your worst victims.
[44:21.180 --> 44:25.260]  And what I mean by that, I mean educated people, people who want to protect their privacy.
[44:25.740 --> 44:42.980]  And what I'm going to try and do here is call somebody who has gone to the trouble of taking their address out of the phone book to see if it's possible to use their obvious desire for privacy to invade their privacy.
[44:43.180 --> 44:46.380]  And if they start to give the address, we'll, of course, cut it off.
[44:47.040 --> 44:52.260]  But let's just see how this works here.
[44:52.460 --> 44:53.760]  And, of course, cut off the phone number too.
[45:13.920 --> 45:15.380]  The number you have...
[45:15.380 --> 45:15.740]  All right.
[45:15.820 --> 45:16.340]  That's going to happen.
[45:16.540 --> 45:18.580]  As you can see, this is not pre-staged.
[45:21.430 --> 45:22.770]  Is this named for real?
[45:23.110 --> 45:23.810]  Oh, my God.
[45:25.910 --> 45:26.650]  Oh, my God.
[45:26.730 --> 45:27.810]  I just can't believe it.
[45:28.830 --> 45:31.290]  I hope this one doesn't answer just so I can tell you what the name is.
[45:32.570 --> 45:36.210]  Well, I used to have a friend, and she always had her phone listed as Sonia Red.
[45:36.490 --> 45:39.030]  So if you wanted to find her in the phone book, you just looked up Red Sonia.
[46:11.100 --> 46:11.440]  Okay.
[46:11.520 --> 46:12.200]  That's going to voicemail.
[46:13.200 --> 46:14.800]  That was the number of Joe Schmo.
[46:17.190 --> 46:19.240]  I kid you not, it's listed that way.
[46:23.030 --> 46:23.430]  All right.
[46:23.510 --> 46:24.630]  We have a couple more to try.
[46:25.770 --> 46:27.790]  Maybe they're all attending a privacy conference somewhere.
[46:29.230 --> 46:30.190]  Maybe they're all here.
[46:42.830 --> 46:43.810]  Rosanna, Rosanna, Zanna.
[47:01.660 --> 47:02.820]  It's kind of silly, isn't it?
[47:04.480 --> 47:05.800]  Hi, this is Zendis.
[47:06.120 --> 47:06.240]  Okay.
[47:07.480 --> 47:11.300]  Guys, just talk away a little bit while I try and find another one that does answer.
[47:15.430 --> 47:16.290]  It's Sunday.
[47:16.530 --> 47:18.070]  Everyone's sleeping or out?
[47:18.870 --> 47:19.050]  Yeah.
[47:19.170 --> 47:22.230]  Usually, we do this panel a little later.
[47:22.350 --> 47:24.310]  So we're a little slower than we usually are.
[47:24.550 --> 47:26.650]  But Jello didn't want to get up early.
[47:26.670 --> 47:29.050]  So we schedule him for later this time.
[47:29.630 --> 47:29.970]  Okay.
[47:30.030 --> 47:30.570]  Let's try this one.
[47:43.790 --> 47:44.270]  Hello.
[47:44.890 --> 47:45.630]  Good afternoon.
[47:45.650 --> 47:47.930]  I'm calling from the National Do Not Call Registry.
[47:48.050 --> 47:51.210]  We understand that your number is listed as... National what?
[47:51.610 --> 47:56.490]  The National Do Not Call Registry so that you don't get telemarketers calling you.
[47:57.310 --> 47:57.710]  Yes.
[47:58.450 --> 48:02.250]  We understand that you're listed with that service and that it expires at the end of the month.
[48:02.350 --> 48:05.110]  We want it to verify that you want it to continue to be listed.
[48:06.830 --> 48:08.330]  How do I verify that?
[48:08.610 --> 48:10.030]  Just by telling us over the phone.
[48:10.150 --> 48:14.190]  And we will extend for another two years your listing so that you don't get telemarketing calls.
[48:14.330 --> 48:14.330]  Wow.
[48:14.330 --> 48:14.470]  Is it cost?
[48:14.890 --> 48:15.370]  It's free.
[48:15.470 --> 48:16.230]  It's a free service.
[48:16.510 --> 48:17.250]  Oh, that's fine.
[48:17.250 --> 48:19.170]  Yeah, you had requested this in the past, hadn't you?
[48:19.370 --> 48:19.670]  Yes.
[48:20.090 --> 48:20.350]  Okay.
[48:20.690 --> 48:26.750]  We'd also like to confirm that you don't want to receive any mass mailings in the... to your address.
[48:27.190 --> 48:27.570]  Yes.
[48:27.750 --> 48:30.190]  Can you confirm your address for us so we do not send you anything?
[48:30.290 --> 48:30.610]  No, I can't.
[48:30.910 --> 48:31.250]  Thank you.
[48:31.430 --> 48:31.650]  Okay.
[48:31.730 --> 48:32.370]  Thank you very much.
[48:32.990 --> 48:34.270]  That's a smart consumer.
[48:34.450 --> 48:34.510]  Smart one.
[48:39.340 --> 48:40.540]  Oh, good for her.
[48:42.000 --> 48:45.140]  If more people were like that, we wouldn't be having this panel, but...
[48:45.140 --> 48:45.360]  Yeah.
[48:47.000 --> 48:54.960]  I'm happy to say that when we call individual people at their homes, we usually get a better reaction than when we call corporate offices where they just pretty much give out any information you ask for.
[48:56.280 --> 48:57.260]  Should I try a couple more?
[48:57.380 --> 48:58.360]  We're running short on time.
[48:59.060 --> 49:00.040]  Is Jello here?
[49:00.940 --> 49:01.300]  No?
[49:01.420 --> 49:02.420]  Jello hasn't set yet.
[49:02.780 --> 49:03.340]  Jello what?
[49:03.640 --> 49:04.900]  Jello hasn't set yet.
[49:04.900 --> 49:06.120]  Jello hasn't set yet?
[49:07.700 --> 49:08.140]  No.
[49:10.080 --> 49:11.700]  Jello escort him out, please.
[49:14.320 --> 49:15.520]  So should I keep trying?
[49:16.120 --> 49:16.240]  Yes.
[49:18.600 --> 49:20.400]  Jello just let me know when to stop.
[49:23.080 --> 49:28.140]  The real trouble is, as the years go by, it's harder and harder to read the damn phone book.
[49:29.260 --> 49:30.220]  My God.
[49:32.260 --> 49:34.420]  Okay, this person has a 917 number.
[49:38.160 --> 49:41.400]  Well, don't you hate getting spam on your cell phone or telemarketing?
[50:13.480 --> 50:15.280]  Hello, you've reached the peer residence.
[50:15.620 --> 50:15.980]  Okay.
[50:16.560 --> 50:19.480]  I'm going to try one more, then I'm going to say it's bad luck.
[50:45.640 --> 50:46.120]  Hello?
[50:46.780 --> 50:47.480]  Good afternoon.
[50:47.600 --> 50:49.440]  I'm calling from the National Do Not Call Registry.
[50:49.440 --> 50:51.660]  We understand your number is listed.
[50:51.960 --> 50:53.760]  You do not want to get telemarketing calls?
[50:53.980 --> 50:54.640]  No, I don't.
[50:54.760 --> 50:54.840]  Right.
[50:54.940 --> 50:55.200]  Okay.
[50:55.500 --> 50:57.660]  The listing expires at the end of the month.
[50:57.800 --> 51:00.620]  We wanted to verify that you wanted to increase that for another two years?
[51:00.800 --> 51:01.140]  Please.
[51:01.620 --> 51:01.960]  Okay.
[51:02.120 --> 51:06.380]  And we also wanted to ask if you wanted to have your name added to the Do Not Mail list.
[51:06.700 --> 51:08.320]  I already have that, I think.
[51:08.940 --> 51:12.420]  Actually, the Do Not Mail registry just began this month, so we need to verify.
[51:12.440 --> 51:12.460]  Oh, yeah.
[51:12.460 --> 51:12.860]  Then add it.
[51:13.000 --> 51:13.120]  Right.
[51:13.320 --> 51:15.620]  Can you verify your address so that we don't send you anything?
[51:17.180 --> 51:19.000]  What name and address do you have?
[51:19.000 --> 51:20.460]  Actually, we don't have that information.
[51:20.660 --> 51:21.560]  We just have the phone number.
[51:21.760 --> 51:21.800]  Oh, I see.
[51:21.800 --> 51:22.460]  You just have the phone number.
[51:22.460 --> 51:25.320]  If you could give us the address, we will make sure that you do not get junk mail.
[51:25.620 --> 51:26.420]  It's 205.
[51:27.840 --> 51:28.340]  Thank you.
[51:31.260 --> 51:31.780]  All right.
[51:37.210 --> 51:39.830]  So, not everybody is educated, as you can see.
[51:40.910 --> 51:44.810]  And this is somebody who went to the trouble of not putting their address in the phone book.
[51:45.230 --> 51:48.770]  I should also point out, you know, a lot of you might not realize this.
[51:49.410 --> 51:52.170]  You pay for an unlisted phone, which is really silly.
[51:52.450 --> 51:53.970]  You're paying not to be in the book.
[51:54.150 --> 52:02.210]  You can simply change your name, your listed name, have a funny name, and then when somebody asks for Joe Schmo or whatever, you know they're looking in the phone book.
[52:03.030 --> 52:10.190]  And you can also have the address not listed, just your name, so that people won't get your address out of the phone book.
[52:10.750 --> 52:19.050]  And something else you should be aware of is that even when you do that, when you don't have an address in the phone book, the information operator does have that information.
[52:19.250 --> 52:22.830]  In fact, even when you're unlisted, the information operator can see your address.
[52:23.090 --> 52:28.250]  They cannot tell you, tell the person calling what the address is, but they can answer yes or no.
[52:28.570 --> 52:29.150]  Is it this?
[52:29.250 --> 52:29.650]  Is it that?
[52:29.710 --> 52:30.430]  Is it greater than this?
[52:30.490 --> 52:31.290]  Is it greater than that?
[52:31.790 --> 52:40.750]  And we've had many a fun evening, tracking down people by having yes-no chats with various Back when information was free, maybe that's why it's not anymore.
[52:42.550 --> 52:50.130]  There are all sorts of tricks to protecting your privacy, but the biggest thing of all is just to be aware, to not let yourself get scammed.
[52:50.770 --> 52:53.910]  When people call you on the phone, don't give out information.
[52:54.710 --> 52:55.470]  Call them.
[52:55.670 --> 53:00.290]  And when you know who you're talking to, only give out the information that you feel comfortable giving out.
[53:01.550 --> 53:03.950]  And that's really, I think, the best advice that we can offer.
[53:05.530 --> 53:08.690]  Okay, Jello, I'm told, is going to be here in about ten minutes.
[53:09.190 --> 53:10.990]  So we're going to wrap up here with...
[53:10.990 --> 53:12.810]  Maybe if people want to ask some questions.
[53:13.410 --> 53:14.430]  There's microphones up there.
[53:15.390 --> 53:17.470]  I'm all phoned out, so...
[53:18.730 --> 53:19.450]  Cheshire, any more?
[53:19.650 --> 53:20.450]  Okay, we have some people here.
[53:20.530 --> 53:20.770]  Go ahead.
[53:21.130 --> 53:24.330]  Not a question, but just following up on what you just said.
[53:24.730 --> 53:29.450]  Sometimes you can pinpoint an address for an unlisted person.
[53:29.990 --> 53:41.310]  I had a friend who knew that a particular celebrity, who may still live on Barrow Street, so I won't use the name, knew that this person lived on that street, but wasn't sure of the exact address.
[53:42.490 --> 53:49.290]  Called information, said, I want the number for XYZ on number 12 Barrow Street.
[53:49.530 --> 53:51.030]  And they said, I'm sorry, that's unlisted.
[53:51.310 --> 53:52.410]  But you just gave their address?
[53:52.590 --> 53:53.270]  You're not going to give the name?
[53:53.270 --> 53:57.830]  Well, but she said, but I do have the right address, number 12.
[53:57.950 --> 53:58.650]  No, it's number 10.
[53:59.090 --> 54:00.670]  And I can't give you the number.
[54:00.950 --> 54:02.690]  So sometimes the operator...
[54:02.690 --> 54:09.810]  I guess now that it's mostly automated, you can't do that, but if you actually talk to a human in those places where they still are there, you can get away with it.
[54:09.970 --> 54:22.330]  One really cool trick that I'd like to tell people about that we actually did last year is basically making use of VoIP services and the ability to change caller ID.
[54:22.550 --> 54:24.530]  Have you guys messed around with changing caller ID?
[54:25.050 --> 54:31.510]  Authorities are starting to catch on to this and realize, hey, that's probably not a good thing to be able to do, and now they're making laws and things.
[54:31.610 --> 54:40.870]  But a lot of us still have the capability of programming switches and asterisk boxes and things like that, and basically changing your phone number.
[54:40.870 --> 54:45.150]  Said, hey, look, the White House is calling me on your cell phone.
[54:46.370 --> 55:01.870]  What's cool about that, and this is actually something I thought of, when you make that kind of a phone call, yeah, you get the name, the number, but you also get the name sometimes because what happens is when that number arrives at your central office,
[55:02.370 --> 55:09.690]  your central office does a lookup right there and then, and they see that number, and they match it to a name.
[55:10.570 --> 55:14.950]  Now, that name is not calling you, but you see the name on your caller ID device.
[55:15.690 --> 55:22.810]  So it's sort of a form of reverse scanning, where basically, who lives at 212-228-1234?
[55:23.430 --> 55:31.450]  Well, I'm going to program that phone number into my asterisk box, call my other number, and look at the caller ID display, and hey, Joe Schmoe, that's who lives there.
[55:31.610 --> 55:33.470]  You won't get the address, but you will get the name.
[55:33.690 --> 55:51.990]  Now, imagine if you were to program an asterisk box or whatever you have set up to call a number, increment by one, call the number again, increment by one, over and over and over again, you would get an entire exchange, listed and unlisted phone numbers,
[55:52.090 --> 55:53.230]  with people's names.
[55:53.390 --> 56:03.370]  Now, when you do this to neighborhoods such as, oh, I don't know, Hollywood or Washington, D.C., you get quite a few interesting names, and they cannot hide.
[56:03.570 --> 56:12.990]  All the tricks that we've told you as far as changing your name or changing your address or not listing your address, they don't work because this is the billed name.
[56:13.570 --> 56:17.350]  If it's billed to somebody's name, it's going to show up on the caller ID box.
[56:18.230 --> 56:19.810]  And that's just pretty wacky.
[56:19.930 --> 56:27.170]  The thing that stopped us eventually was an email from the VoIP provider saying, we're seeing a fantastic number of attempts.
[56:28.110 --> 56:29.530]  The call wasn't even being completed.
[56:29.530 --> 56:30.690]  You didn't have to pick up the phone.
[56:31.050 --> 56:39.450]  But they were seeing, I think, something on the order of 10,000 different phone calls from different numbers that were never answered.
[56:39.610 --> 56:44.190]  And while we mapped out an entire exchange that way, we sure got them a little peeved.
[56:45.710 --> 56:50.130]  But it just goes to show, if you actually run one of those companies, what you can do.
[56:50.350 --> 56:51.670]  That information is there.
[56:51.830 --> 56:52.270]  It's out there.
[56:52.350 --> 56:54.590]  There's no way to delist it, at least not yet.
[56:55.590 --> 56:56.450]  So don't do that.
[56:58.550 --> 56:59.790]  Any concluding remarks?
[56:59.810 --> 57:00.390]  Bernie, are you awake?
[57:00.590 --> 57:01.610]  I thought you fell asleep.
[57:02.930 --> 57:03.970]  It's been a long night.
[57:04.490 --> 57:06.230]  Any concluding remarks, Cheshire?
[57:07.390 --> 57:10.290]  Well, I still have to get my airfare back to Florida.
[57:10.290 --> 57:15.510]  So if anyone would like a book of my adventures, I'll be back in Area D.
[57:16.170 --> 57:21.690]  I'll take $10 in your e-mail address and send you my e-book emailed to you from Florida.
[57:22.110 --> 57:22.410]  Thank you.
[57:24.030 --> 57:24.430]  Bernie?
[57:24.810 --> 57:25.450]  Bernie, anything?
[57:25.670 --> 57:26.790]  I'm too tired to say anything.
[57:26.950 --> 57:28.410]  I've got about four hours sleep over the weekend.
[57:28.590 --> 57:30.970]  But thanks for coming.
[57:31.890 --> 57:32.570]  Yeah, thanks everybody.
[57:32.850 --> 57:33.410]  And Kevin.
[57:36.570 --> 57:37.530]  Hack the planet!
[57:42.220 --> 57:42.620]  Thanks.
[57:43.080 --> 57:43.940]  Stay tuned for Jello.
[57:44.140 --> 57:44.180]  Thank you.
[57:44.200 --> 57:44.960]  Thank you, Cheshire.