[00:00.000 --> 00:15.160]  I am glad all of you decided to come here on a Friday night to, you know, listen to me talk about what I'm calling printable electronics and the future of Southern Open hardware.
[00:15.980 --> 00:27.320]  And, you know, then the subtitle of the talk is how to print Southern Arduino, because that's the question everyone always asks, and that's really what everybody wants to know.
[00:28.180 --> 00:32.060]  So, first, just a few things about me.
[00:32.280 --> 00:48.140]  I have what I will call a distinct speaking style, which is code for I have a stutter, so I may take a little while longer to say some things, I may stumble on some words, but we can all get through this.
[00:49.240 --> 00:51.580]  I'm a fifth-year EE Ph.D.
[00:51.680 --> 00:55.180]  student up at Columbia University.
[00:55.180 --> 01:00.180]  I'm my lab's kind of resident hardware hacker, which is why I'm still a fifth-year Ph.D.
[01:00.280 --> 01:01.780]  student and I haven't graduated yet.
[01:02.700 --> 01:05.940]  And a fun fact about myself, I honk jars.
[01:08.380 --> 01:10.700]  You know, it's just a little bit about...
[01:12.480 --> 01:14.280]  So, about my lab, it is called CLUE.
[01:14.460 --> 01:18.260]  It is the Columbia Laboratory for Unconventional Electronics.
[01:19.320 --> 01:32.700]  So, the theme of our lab is novel integration of all of these kind of different technologies to build new and cool systems.
[01:33.020 --> 01:36.360]  We have a very entrepreneurial emphasis in the lab.
[01:36.520 --> 01:43.540]  We have three startups coming out of the lab, which is something we can talk about later.
[01:43.540 --> 01:51.220]  And something else I wanted to mention is that we're always looking for new students and new collaborators.
[01:51.480 --> 02:01.700]  We have a bunch of really cool tools that we have in the lab that we would be, you know, happy to share.
[02:03.680 --> 02:10.360]  You know, so I'll just go through some of these slides really quick to give you kind of an overview of some of the projects that we do.
[02:11.280 --> 02:13.080]  This is my main project right now.
[02:13.260 --> 02:18.360]  These are energy harvesting active network tags.
[02:18.640 --> 02:29.460]  These are like smart RFID tags that are able to harvest energy from their environment.
[02:29.660 --> 02:37.400]  And they form a wireless mesh network, so they can be kind of the backbone of the Internet of Things.
[02:37.400 --> 02:47.740]  And really all of this is possible because we are bringing together all of these kind of disparate technologies into a single package.
[02:49.000 --> 02:52.900]  This is one of the startups that we are working on.
[02:52.960 --> 02:56.400]  This is where I am going to be working starting in the fall.
[02:57.360 --> 03:11.000]  This is the technology that is going to make wearable heads-up displays bright and efficient.
[03:11.300 --> 03:18.200]  So our hope is in maybe the next two or three years you will see this kind of technology.
[03:18.200 --> 03:20.820]  So then the Google Glass style of devices.
[03:23.000 --> 03:30.420]  How I actually got started into this whole open hardware printable electronics area is...
[03:30.420 --> 03:36.120]  So we teach a course at Columbia called Modern Display Science and Technology.
[03:36.400 --> 03:43.140]  And it's all about the glowing rectangles that we all spend so much of our day staring at.
[03:44.300 --> 03:49.540]  But we have a series of lab exercises there.
[03:49.720 --> 03:58.420]  And we are now in the process of converting those into kits that will let anyone build their own kind of displays at home.
[04:01.680 --> 04:05.280]  And so I'm taking this to the next level.
[04:05.580 --> 04:36.820]  Some of the projects I have been working on when I was an intern at Microsoft Research was looking at ways that you can combine the 3D printing rapid prototyping technology with these new printable electronics so you can make a new class of objects in your 3D printer.
[04:39.120 --> 04:46.980]  But I think what I learned from that experience is that there is still one key component that is missing from all that.
[04:48.200 --> 05:12.140]  And so I want to talk about these three things here to show how you really need to have 3D printing, unconventional electronics, and kind of the missing piece of open source hardware that is going to make this all possible.
[05:12.140 --> 05:14.800]  So just a little overview.
[05:16.320 --> 05:24.840]  How many of you were here for the talks this morning about some open source hardware?
[05:26.080 --> 05:30.420]  How many of you know what open source hardware is?
[05:31.460 --> 05:35.320]  So it's a pretty self-explanatory thing.
[05:35.320 --> 05:42.520]  It is the open source software principles and it is just applied to hardware.
[05:42.900 --> 05:49.580]  If you want to learn more about it, September 27th here in New York City is the open hardware summit.
[05:49.840 --> 05:51.880]  You should definitely come and check it out.
[05:52.460 --> 05:59.360]  There are a lot of people doing some really interesting stuff in open source hardware.
[05:59.360 --> 06:08.080]  I just have the three New York City based companies here just in case there's anyone from the audience in these companies.
[06:10.400 --> 06:21.120]  And, you know, so I just want to say why I think open source hardware is important.
[06:22.280 --> 06:32.580]  So it's essentially if you can't actually open up your hardware, you don't really own your hardware.
[06:32.980 --> 06:36.320]  And I think that's a very important cultural point to make.
[06:37.820 --> 06:38.700]  All right.
[06:39.080 --> 06:39.820]  3D printing.
[06:39.980 --> 06:43.880]  Who knows what 3D printing is?
[06:45.000 --> 06:45.960]  Pretty much everyone.
[06:47.500 --> 06:50.720]  If you don't know what it is, you can go downstairs to the second floor.
[06:50.880 --> 06:56.960]  You know, stop by the MakerBot table and they can show you how it works.
[06:57.240 --> 07:10.140]  But so then how the MakerBot works is shown on the left where you have a plastic filament and it just moves along spinning out the plastic and it builds up things layer by layer.
[07:11.700 --> 07:26.800]  And there's a new, very exciting technology coming to the DIY 3D printing scene, which is this stereo lithography based on a UV curable resin.
[07:27.820 --> 07:39.500]  So you have a vat of the resin, then you have a light source, and then you are able to expose the resin to the light source to get the pattern that you want.
[07:40.720 --> 07:44.160]  Some examples of some of the really cool things you can do with 3D printing.
[07:44.340 --> 07:47.480]  You can do large scale things like the body of the car.
[07:47.620 --> 07:51.920]  You can do small scale things like the nano scale church.
[07:52.240 --> 07:53.300]  You can do food.
[07:53.460 --> 07:56.940]  You can do blood vessels.
[07:57.660 --> 07:58.720]  You can do clothes.
[07:58.940 --> 08:02.060]  You can do practical objects.
[08:02.060 --> 08:05.360]  You can do a whole bunch of really cool stuff.
[08:05.820 --> 08:11.100]  And this has a lot of people really, you know, getting really excited.
[08:11.340 --> 08:15.580]  They are saying 3D printing, it is going to change the world.
[08:15.780 --> 08:21.740]  And yes, certainly it does have the potential to change the world.
[08:21.740 --> 08:31.540]  But there are still some key kind of elements missing from the current 3D printing landscape.
[08:32.600 --> 08:35.780]  Since if you look at most of the stuff, you can print...
[08:37.440 --> 08:43.740]  So it's what I would call structural objects, you know, not like, you know, functional objects.
[08:43.740 --> 08:49.120]  So you can have plastic in any shape, you know, that you want.
[08:50.080 --> 08:56.200]  But if you want something else, that may or may not be possible.
[08:56.200 --> 09:08.500]  So I am proposing that the solution to this problem are unconventional electronics.
[09:08.860 --> 09:19.460]  What I'm calling unconventional electronics are just any type of electronics that are not silicon-based.
[09:19.460 --> 09:23.460]  So if you look at the kind of standard silicon...
[09:24.060 --> 09:34.540]  So it's all about making things smaller and faster, you know, following Moore's Law.
[09:34.540 --> 09:38.180]  So you can cram more transistors on a really small space.
[09:38.440 --> 09:46.440]  But you can certainly imagine some applications where you may want large area electronics.
[09:46.440 --> 09:49.140]  You may want foldable electronics, stretchable electronics.
[09:49.400 --> 09:54.740]  You may want to have something that you could print out on a sheet of paper.
[09:54.860 --> 10:00.180]  And that's just not going to be possible using the conventional silicon electronics.
[10:02.760 --> 10:09.180]  So some example of, you know, what you can even do now with these unconventional electronics.
[10:09.180 --> 10:12.900]  You can have a solar cell on the right.
[10:12.900 --> 10:14.460]  You can have a display.
[10:14.460 --> 10:16.660]  You can have a battery.
[10:16.920 --> 10:21.220]  You can even do a whole bunch of exotic kinds of materials.
[10:21.440 --> 10:34.180]  And then the top left, that is actually a complete microprocessor, which is made using organic transistors.
[10:34.180 --> 10:38.400]  So it's a really promising technology.
[10:39.060 --> 11:01.880]  And so you can certainly see how if you have printable electronics that you are able to print out on your own, that it is really going to change the way that we design consumer electronics when you have a hardware update that is the same as a firmware update.
[11:04.620 --> 11:18.920]  So, you know, so I think that this is where, where all of us, all of us really hope that all this stuff goes to the Star Trek style of you can have, you can have anything that you want anytime that you want.
[11:20.760 --> 11:21.200]  Okay.
[11:21.780 --> 11:22.600]  That is great.
[11:22.840 --> 11:25.780]  I have been, I've been, you know, you know, talking about the future.
[11:26.040 --> 11:26.920]  It's got to be wonderful.
[11:29.200 --> 11:35.460]  But, you know, but seriously, how do we actually start with just printing something such as an Arduino?
[11:36.860 --> 11:37.300]  Okay.
[11:38.940 --> 11:40.400]  Who knows what an Arduino is?
[11:41.680 --> 11:42.120]  Great.
[11:42.120 --> 11:53.240]  So, you know, so mostly everybody, you know, so if you don't, it is a, it is a really simple, really easy to use electronics prototyping platform.
[11:55.260 --> 12:09.260]  If, if you actually, the look kind of under the hood, all it is really is it's just a user friendly kind of dev kit for the, for an Atmel kind of microcontroller.
[12:10.660 --> 12:23.180]  And if we take a look at, look at this, at this piece of open source hardware, you can see that it's not really fully something open.
[12:23.440 --> 12:27.940]  You, you have open source software, you have open source layout of the board.
[12:28.040 --> 12:33.660]  But if you actually want to get inside of the microcontroller itself, so it's a black box.
[12:33.920 --> 12:35.380]  It's a literal black box.
[12:47.020 --> 12:52.760]  And it's also something that you can't build, build on your own.
[12:52.760 --> 13:16.620]  So I'm calling that the, the eye kind of pencil problem, you know, which is based off of the essay that, essay that says it is not, it is not possible for a single, for a single person to build, to build something as simple, simple, something even as a pencil.
[13:16.620 --> 13:21.380]  So then what chance do you stand to actually make a microcontroller.
[13:22.760 --> 13:44.180]  From a more, from a more practical perspective, if you need to use a, use a certain, you know, microcontroller for your project, the, like, let's say the, say the, like, standard kind of Arduino has, has 20 pins that you can use.
[13:45.340 --> 13:56.020]  If you want to use 21 pins, you have to move up to the whole, to the whole next level of the chip that it maybe has like, you know, 40 pins or something.
[13:56.300 --> 14:00.780]  And, you know, so you're just like, you know, wasting the, you know, wasting the pins there.
[14:02.180 --> 14:20.640]  You know, so then another practical problem is, since, since these are all from the same supplier, if there's any kind of, you know, disruption of, you know, the supply chain, you aren't going to be able to get the, get the parts that you need for your open source hardware.
[14:20.640 --> 14:33.800]  Um, which of course leads, uh, leads to a second problem of, um, of the, of the, of the possibility of having this, this fake hardware.
[14:34.420 --> 14:43.320]  Um, uh, SparkFun had this problem when they were trying to, um, source some of the microcontrollers from, let's say some shadier, um, kind of places.
[14:43.320 --> 14:48.820]  And they got, uh, got, um, got one of these chips.
[14:49.040 --> 14:49.640]  One of them is fake.
[14:49.720 --> 14:50.380]  One of them is real.
[14:50.660 --> 15:00.520]  Um, if you can, if you can tell the difference between the two, you probably have already read, uh, you know, can read their article.
[15:00.540 --> 15:02.580]  But they look, look exactly the same.
[15:02.760 --> 15:03.400]  There's no way to tell.
[15:04.500 --> 15:17.640]  So, you know, so then what I am, uh, so then, you know, what I want to suggest is that, that if we do actually want to print on Arduino, we need to have an open source microcontroller.
[15:19.180 --> 15:21.080]  So let's start at the beginning.
[15:21.860 --> 15:24.380]  What is a microcontroller exactly?
[15:24.760 --> 15:27.020]  It is just a small scale computer.
[15:27.060 --> 15:34.380]  So you need to have a, uh, so you need to have a processor core with a CPU and an ALU in it.
[15:34.480 --> 15:39.480]  You need some memory and then you need some inputs and outputs so you can talk to the real world.
[15:40.200 --> 15:43.720]  Um, how, uh, how a microcontroller actually works.
[15:43.760 --> 15:55.080]  Um, so it just has a series, um, of instructions that it is able to run and, um, that is defined, um, you know, by the command set.
[15:56.260 --> 16:04.880]  But, um, you know, so, but so the, what actually makes it go are millions and millions of, of transistors.
[16:06.700 --> 16:07.060]  Yes.
[16:07.320 --> 16:08.500]  Why are you moving from .
[16:12.290 --> 16:27.290]  Oh, um, um, um, you know, so then this was, um, this was just like, you know, data sheet that I was able to find that it, um, you know, that it had a nice, uh, nice, like graphic of it.
[16:47.340 --> 17:05.460]  So then, um, so, um, he wants to know what part of, what part of the, like, you know, microcontroller, um, I am hoping, uh, that I hope to, you know, to, you know, open source here.
[17:06.320 --> 17:15.140]  Um, um, um, I actually want to have the ability, um, to actually build my own from the ground up.
[17:18.060 --> 17:30.500]  And, um, and if you look at what is on the inside of microcontroller, it is just millions upon millions of transistors all arranged in a certain way.
[17:31.280 --> 17:40.600]  Uh, so this next part, I'm just going to skip through, uh, kind of fast because nobody wants to have a physics lecture on a Friday night.
[17:42.780 --> 17:44.360]  Hey, okay.
[17:45.740 --> 17:47.140]  I stand corrected.
[17:48.460 --> 17:49.500]  But, okay.
[17:49.900 --> 18:03.080]  Um, all you need to know, uh, um, for this, uh, for this little introduction to transistors, you can think of it as a three terminal kind of device.
[18:03.080 --> 18:06.000]  So you have a source, a drain, and a gate.
[18:06.000 --> 18:18.260]  Um, the, the current between the source and the drain is, um, is controlled by the voltage you apply to the gate.
[18:18.560 --> 18:32.480]  And, and for standard CMOS technology now, you, you, you have, uh, two types of transistors, which are, which are complimentary transistors.
[18:32.480 --> 18:37.220]  So you have, uh, so you have an N-type and you have a P-type.
[18:37.420 --> 18:42.280]  So you have one of them, which is, uh, which is turned on when you have a high voltage on the gate.
[18:42.400 --> 18:45.720]  And one of them is turned on when you have a low voltage on the gate.
[18:46.780 --> 18:50.560]  Um, how do you actually make these, uh, make these transistors?
[18:50.560 --> 18:52.040]  I'm not going to go through all this.
[18:52.840 --> 19:04.720]  If you want to know more, this Sunday at 12 o'clock, right back here, there is going to be a pretty cool talk going through the whole process.
[19:05.300 --> 19:12.940]  All I want to say here is it's a very long, complex process, additive, and it's attractive.
[19:14.460 --> 19:22.640]  It did involve some really, really expensive equipment and also some really hazardous chemicals along the way.
[19:24.060 --> 19:30.740]  So, as I said, how do the transistors actually work?
[19:31.660 --> 19:35.720]  You can see here for the... I believe this is an N-type transistor.
[19:38.200 --> 19:49.880]  When you have the gate voltage less than the threshold voltage, you will not have a channel that is between the source and drain.
[19:50.840 --> 20:01.460]  Once the gate voltage exceeds the threshold voltage, you will turn on the transistor and you will allow it to conduct.
[20:03.200 --> 20:13.460]  So, if we have these transistors, we are then able to start combining these switches into something useful.
[20:14.320 --> 20:21.100]  So, if you combine these two transistors like so, you can make an inverter.
[20:21.320 --> 20:27.480]  So, for example, when you have A is low, it is going to turn on the top transistor.
[20:27.480 --> 20:28.720]  You will see the high at the output.
[20:28.840 --> 20:33.600]  When A is high, it will turn on the bottom transistor and you will see the low at the output.
[20:34.700 --> 20:43.400]  You can then start to build up more complex logic gates in the same way.
[20:46.220 --> 20:53.440]  And then you can actually start to build these kinds of logic gates using the actual transistors.
[20:57.380 --> 21:10.700]  So, then just a note on how you would design something like a microcontroller that is made up of all these logic gates.
[21:10.700 --> 21:24.820]  You can either use a hardware description language like Verilog or VHDL where we are just saying how the gates should be hooked up.
[21:27.480 --> 21:31.360]  Or you can actually do the layout yourself, so and so again.
[21:31.360 --> 21:46.280]  So, then this is all showing the VHDL for a full adder and it is showing the silicon layout for full adders in three different silicon technologies.
[21:49.660 --> 21:56.340]  If you want to get started in this circuit design area, Cadence is the tool of choice, but it is expensive.
[21:56.680 --> 22:03.720]  There are some great free tools that are part of Fedora Electronics Lab.
[22:03.900 --> 22:07.120]  So, if you want to start playing with that, that is a great starting point.
[22:07.120 --> 22:09.660]  Okay, legal issues.
[22:10.000 --> 22:15.520]  I am not a lawyer, so all this may or may not be...
[22:16.780 --> 22:20.180]  So, all this isn't legal advice.
[22:20.400 --> 22:35.720]  All I want to say here is that there are multiple layers of legal protection for most of these kind of integrated circuits.
[22:35.720 --> 22:45.780]  You know, so there is even a special kind of mask work which protects the silicon layout.
[22:47.500 --> 22:55.220]  There have been patent disputes over features that are in the ICs.
[22:55.520 --> 23:14.660]  And so, the last thing that I want to talk about is for a lot of these kind of technologies, if you even want to get started trying to design any of these ICs, you need to sign an NDA if you want access to the tools.
[23:16.960 --> 23:19.200]  So, here is an interesting example.
[23:19.380 --> 23:24.360]  This is the first commercially available microprocessor.
[23:24.360 --> 23:26.460]  This is the Intel 404.
[23:27.740 --> 23:32.960]  The schematics and layout, they are available online.
[23:33.540 --> 23:45.120]  But I am not sure if it is even legal for someone if they wanted to start their own fab to use this as a design they could sell.
[23:46.560 --> 23:56.320]  Fortunately, there are projects who are working on these open source kind of microcontrollers.
[23:56.440 --> 24:05.120]  This is from the OpenCores project where they actually do have a full processor based on the open risk architecture.
[24:05.120 --> 24:18.860]  They have shown it working on an FPGA and they are now trying to raise money to actually make these on a silicon chip.
[24:20.380 --> 24:28.820]  So, this is hard because if you want to actually compile silicon source code, you need to have your own fab.
[24:28.820 --> 24:34.640]  And fab these days cost a whole lot of money.
[24:34.940 --> 24:44.520]  So, the newest one opened up by Global Foundries not too long ago cost 4.6 billion dollars.
[24:44.760 --> 24:48.380]  So, it cost a lot just to get into the game.
[24:49.880 --> 24:59.400]  Fortunately, there are some projects where there have been some people working at home to see if they can fabricate their own transistors.
[25:00.140 --> 25:11.360]  Jerry Ellsworth was, to my knowledge of the first, the first to demonstrate a working silicon transistor made at home.
[25:11.640 --> 25:24.600]  And then other projects such as the home CMOS project which are kind of following in her footsteps to bring DIY silicon to the masses.
[25:28.220 --> 25:38.540]  So, I would say that if we want to truly open source the Arduino, we aren't going to be able to do that in, do that in silicon anytime soon.
[25:38.720 --> 25:44.340]  So, we really need to, to reimagine what we want out of the Arduino.
[25:45.980 --> 25:46.580]  Question.
[25:47.080 --> 25:47.300]  Yep.
[25:48.740 --> 25:49.340]  Yes.
[25:51.680 --> 26:16.300]  Um, you know, so the question is, um, you know, so what do I mean by printing, um, so then Arduino, um, you know, so what I mean by that, um, is, is you, is you have a machine of some sorts, hit a button, and it, um, and it spits out, so then, uh, spits out,
[26:16.580 --> 26:19.320]  you know, the Arduino for you.
[26:23.900 --> 26:28.180]  So, um, you know, so that is kind of a long-term goal here.
[26:39.480 --> 26:40.060]  Yes.
[26:40.360 --> 26:40.760]  Yes.
[26:41.080 --> 26:46.700]  Um, um, certainly you can use, um, something like an FPGA.
[26:48.420 --> 27:04.160]  But, but, but, but, but if you don't have your own kind of machine that is able to, like, you know, spit out an FPGA for you, then you can't really call it a fully, a, a fully printable, you know, version of the Arduino.
[27:04.160 --> 27:20.120]  You know, and that is like, you know, kind of, kind of far off, kind of looking at futuristic, but I think it's a goal, goal that is worth striving for, goal that is worth, uh, worth thinking about, thinking about, um, how would we actually make that,
[27:20.260 --> 27:25.380]  uh, less of a dream and like, you know, more of something that we could actually do.
[27:27.140 --> 27:47.380]  So, um, so, um, hopefully I have convinced you, um, you know, silicon is hard, but, um, but, but there are other summit conducting kind of materials that are out there, um, you know, that you can use to make transistors.
[27:47.380 --> 27:53.380]  Um, so, um, this is a figure from, uh, from, uh, you know, my advisor's book.
[27:53.560 --> 27:59.220]  If, uh, if you want to know more, uh, more about it, that is, uh, certainly a great place to start.
[27:59.480 --> 28:20.040]  But, um, so what I want to show here is this can be a completely additive process, which, which would be nice because having just, uh, just, uh, just an additive process pairs well with something like 3D printing, which is itself, uh, an additive process.
[28:23.420 --> 28:34.460]  Still, um, you know, so now I don't want to give you the, like, you know, wrong idea that, um, you know, that we're gonna turn around and, uh, start to, start to print out this kind of stuff, you know, tomorrow.
[28:34.680 --> 28:46.320]  This is still a very active area, um, so then if we can research and, um, um, and it still needs some help to get out of the lab stage and get more to the masses.
[28:48.700 --> 28:57.340]  And, um, you know, one of the problems that I want to highlight here, so it's the use of the materials that you have to use.
[28:57.380 --> 29:03.440]  You have some really weird, really, uh, really kind of exotic things we are using in the lab.
[29:03.600 --> 29:19.620]  And, you know, that really doesn't fit with the open source, uh, open source, you know, kind of mentality that, that, uh, pretty much any kind of material that you get should be safe, should be easy to use, um, should be kind of easy to source.
[29:20.220 --> 29:33.580]  Um, if you look at this ActiveInc N, uh, N3000, if you want to buy it, you have to, you actually have to sign an NDA.
[29:33.580 --> 29:33.700]  Okay.
[29:34.260 --> 29:44.520]  And, um, you are not allowed to publish any of the results that you get with something like this if you don't have their, their explicit okay.
[29:47.750 --> 30:15.390]  So, um, um, so the one I was saying you can pair this kind of fabrication of, of organic electronics with the, uh, with the 3D printing technology, um, Um, if you think about a 3D printer, all it is, is a, uh, is a three axis C and C and C and C machine with a,
[30:15.530 --> 30:20.510]  with a plastic, a plastic extruder head.
[30:20.510 --> 30:33.250]  So you can definitely see, well, hey, um, you know, what if, um, what if instead of having a head that extrudes plastic, I have a head that extrudes wire, um, that extrudes.
[30:33.250 --> 30:47.510]  A low melting point metal, um, or if I, uh, or if I have a pen loaded up with some of the inks that I want to print, then you can start to use your 3D printer to print electronics.
[30:49.130 --> 31:03.570]  And, um, um, so some, then something else that we need to think about, um, trying to design, uh, design an entire open source, source microcontroller, that is going to be hard.
[31:04.910 --> 31:13.350]  But, but for a lot of projects, having a microcontroller is really not even something that you need.
[31:13.550 --> 31:17.370]  Um, you know, so you can think about doing things in software.
[31:17.370 --> 31:23.370]  We can go back to the old days where you were doing more of the, uh, you know, stuff in hardware.
[31:26.030 --> 31:38.330]  Um, um, you know, so the final, uh, uh, final kind of point to make is, um, you know, so we have a good, good, good way to share objects.
[31:38.330 --> 31:41.470]  We have a good way to share hardware schematics.
[31:41.750 --> 31:47.110]  We have a good way to, to, to share software source code.
[31:47.450 --> 32:02.570]  How do we share something that is going to have all of those, um, in a single file that you can send to some kind of printer that is going to be able to load it all up into one and spit out the object that you want.
[32:03.310 --> 32:06.670]  So, um, um, um, I have rambled on enough.
[32:06.950 --> 32:23.750]  Um, uh, hopefully I have gotten you excited about this, uh, about the combination of these three, the three technologies and the, um, and, and all of the possibilities they can open up.
[32:23.750 --> 32:27.890]  So now I'd like to open it up to any questions.
[32:28.190 --> 32:29.050]  Thank you very much.
[32:41.160 --> 32:43.560]  On some of the current printing of transistors.
[32:44.460 --> 32:44.620]  Yes.
[32:44.820 --> 32:46.220]  On some of the research that you mentioned.
[32:46.440 --> 32:46.780]  Yes.
[32:46.900 --> 32:53.380]  What's the density line in terms of the amount of transistors that have been printed in a particular area?
[32:53.520 --> 32:54.040]  Okay.
[32:54.300 --> 32:54.620]  Yes.
[32:55.000 --> 33:03.340]  Um, um, you know, so the, so the question was about the kind of densities of the printed transistors.
[33:03.340 --> 33:17.040]  We're able to get, um, currently, um, if you look at, so it can transistors, they have a gate length of, I think it's 22 some nanometers now.
[33:17.340 --> 33:25.940]  Um, we, um, we, um, have the gate lengths of about one to 10.
[33:25.940 --> 33:27.620]  And so the microns.
[33:28.060 --> 33:30.060]  So we are, we are large.
[33:30.280 --> 33:34.440]  So large area transistors, large area electronics.
[33:38.050 --> 33:38.630]  Mm-hmm.
[33:40.890 --> 33:41.290]  Uh,
[33:45.130 --> 33:45.610]  the front here.
[33:45.890 --> 33:48.370]  How do you, uh, how do you actually print them out?
[33:48.570 --> 33:50.830]  Do you, do you use like screen printing techniques?
[33:51.030 --> 33:53.350]  Or do you, I mean, how do you manufacture them yourself?
[33:53.650 --> 33:54.750]  Or how do you print them together?
[33:56.910 --> 34:07.170]  Um, so the question is, what are some of the manufacturing, um, techniques that we use, um, to build these, uh, sorts of electronics?
[34:07.510 --> 34:17.250]  Um, some of, um, some of the materials we are, we are working with can be screen, uh, screen printed on.
[34:17.250 --> 34:23.790]  Some of them can be printed using inkjet, um, uh, kind of printing.
[34:23.930 --> 34:48.570]  Some of them have to be, um, have to be, be deep, have to be deep positive using, uh, um, spin coding or, um, um, or, um, or some other more, um, traditional, um, um, um, kind of equipment.
[34:48.970 --> 35:03.790]  But, you know, so we're always looking, uh, for some ways, ways to kind of transition all these steps to be, uh, be just, um, be just something like an inkjet printing step.
[35:03.990 --> 35:05.130]  Is kind of what we're going for.
[35:06.730 --> 35:10.310]  Has there been any success with, uh, creating PCBs?
[35:12.930 --> 35:15.070]  Yeah, uh, yes.
[35:15.070 --> 35:38.050]  So if you look at, uh, look at, um, look at, uh, this example, um, here, this is essentially a, um, this is essentially a 3D printed, um, robot, uh, robot chassis with the, um, with, with all of the traces kind of printed into it.
[35:38.590 --> 35:41.290]  So you can definitely get something like that.
[35:41.290 --> 35:53.370]  Um, you know, um, you know, um, so, you know, one of the limitations of it now, um, all of the traces are on the same, uh, same 2D plane.
[35:53.370 --> 35:57.950]  So it isn't actually, you know, possible to have it go like, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, yet.
[35:58.410 --> 36:00.610]  But I definitely think that that is something that's going to be coming.
[36:03.070 --> 36:03.530]  Thank you.
[36:03.850 --> 36:04.830]  Um, two questions.
[36:05.070 --> 36:06.170]  What, what, in the last one,
[36:09.490 --> 36:13.610]  and then the second would be, like, what's the most interesting thing you've done with that kind of stuff in the lab?
[36:14.850 --> 36:34.170]  Okay, um, um, um, um, so, so the voltages for the, um, for the transistors that we normally work with, um, for a lab, um, need about, uh, need about 40 volts.
[36:34.170 --> 36:51.950]  Um, so it is, uh, so it is certainly possible to, to lower that, um, lower that, um, voltage, um, substantially by using, uh, newer, uh, newer, um, you know, sorts of material.
[36:51.950 --> 37:14.990]  So, um, as your second question, the most, um, the most, um, kind of interesting thing I have done in the lab, um, so it was actually this, uh, that, um, so the photo there on the, on the far right, which is, um, which is using a, uh, yeah, which is, um,
[37:15.190 --> 37:30.850]  which is using the, um, uh, unicorn pen plotter, uh, you know, maker by, uh, um, kind of attachment to, uh, to, uh, to print some of the layers, uh, for a printable transistor.
[37:31.030 --> 37:31.210]  Yes.
[37:31.630 --> 37:32.310]  Thank you.
[37:32.490 --> 37:35.670]  A constructive use of a laser pointer from, from the audience.
[37:35.890 --> 37:36.830]  I appreciate it.
[37:38.490 --> 37:39.370]  Keep them coming.
[37:56.380 --> 37:56.860]  Right.
[37:57.200 --> 37:57.480]  Yes.
[37:57.800 --> 38:05.800]  To get into that space, uh, I would imagine the open source view would just, you know, their view on open source would just be, suit them to death.
[38:06.120 --> 38:06.600]  Right.
[38:08.940 --> 38:22.220]  Um, so I think you are probably going to have to take a, um, a similar kind of approach to the 3D printing kind of community.
[38:22.840 --> 38:34.020]  If you look at, uh, look at all of the basic patents for 3D printing, those were, those were from, those were from the seventies.
[38:34.240 --> 38:51.300]  Those are now, those are, or now they, you know, rather, you know, have expired, you know, something like, and what we can do, we can go back to the 1970s era and it's not going to be the greatest technology, but it's going to be an open source microcontroller.
[39:05.970 --> 39:06.490]  Question.
[39:06.830 --> 39:07.190]  Yes.
[39:07.410 --> 39:07.930]  Question.
[39:14.110 --> 39:14.630]  Yes.
[39:14.630 --> 39:14.790]  Yes.
[39:15.150 --> 39:28.410]  Um, uh, so the, uh, so the question was on if it is, if it is possible to print, um, some sort of memory and, um, you know, so the answer to that is, is yes.
[39:28.410 --> 39:42.250]  There are plenty of, uh, plenty of groups working on, uh, um, uh, printable kind of memory cells based on these same, um, kind of, um, kind of organic electronics.
[39:42.250 --> 39:59.970]  Um, um, um, you know, so they do have some that are able to kind of operate at the, um, um, um, at the standard 3.35 volt, uh, um, five volt levels.
[40:00.230 --> 40:03.530]  If you wanted to kind of interface this stuff with standard electronics.
[40:05.450 --> 40:07.930]  How fast is the transistor that we're making?
[40:08.530 --> 40:25.110]  Um, we are, um, uh, we are, we are making transistors that are probably in the, uh, probably in the, uh, tens to hundreds of kilohertz range.
[40:26.170 --> 40:38.750]  You know, so then as I said, these kind of unconventional electronics, they will complement silicon electronics.
[40:38.890 --> 40:42.710]  They certainly aren't going, you know, to replace silicon electronics.
[40:44.650 --> 40:46.490]  Sorry, I can't see what's in these lights.
[40:57.570 --> 40:58.970]  Yes.
[41:09.470 --> 41:10.170]  Yes.
[41:14.870 --> 41:28.050]  So, I know of some groups who are working on using zinc oxide, you know, down Princeton.
[41:28.750 --> 41:35.770]  But it's not something I am actively involved in, so I couldn't really comment on it intelligently.
[41:37.230 --> 41:42.490]  Given that a couple of the specific specs you mentioned have been for 40.04...
[41:42.990 --> 41:43.290]  Yes.
[41:43.510 --> 41:44.370]  How close would you say
[41:47.760 --> 41:52.920]  about the same functionality as 40.04 right now with what you have in the lab?
[41:56.420 --> 42:26.720]  You know, so then as I had a few slides back, there have been some of the research groups who have shown these 8-bit kind of microcontrollers that are made out of the same, these organic sorts of material.
[42:28.840 --> 42:41.140]  They, they, they, they hadn't used any printing techniques in order to make it, but it's, but it is, but it is certainly showing that it's possible.
[43:07.720 --> 43:08.300]  Yes.
[43:12.300 --> 43:12.880]  Yes.
[43:13.930 --> 43:14.500]  Yes.
[43:14.820 --> 43:15.060]  Um.
[43:17.390 --> 43:17.960]  Um.
[43:18.640 --> 43:18.660]  Um.
[43:18.660 --> 43:23.820]  You know, so, um, so the question is, um, how do you print the object?
[43:31.440 --> 43:32.220]  Um.
[43:33.520 --> 43:34.240]  Um.
[43:34.240 --> 43:51.180]  For, um, for something like that, we, uh, we have been using screen printing, um, you know, like, you know, kind of techniques because, because that is, that is useful for larger areas.
[43:51.180 --> 44:04.280]  Um, um, um, um, it ensures uniform, uniform coverage, um, and it's a good way to, uh, to, to control the thickness of the layer.
[44:15.320 --> 44:18.580]  In terms of materials such as toxicity.
[44:19.180 --> 44:19.520]  Yes.
[44:20.560 --> 44:22.160]  Uh, abundance or something.
[44:22.520 --> 44:22.740]  Yep.
[44:44.710 --> 44:45.230]  Right.
[44:48.150 --> 44:55.530]  Um, so the, um, so the question is on the, uh, use of, you know, the materials.
[44:55.530 --> 45:19.530]  And their toxicity and their recyclability, um, um, um, how, um, how, how organic electronics, so they can get their name is, um, so that these are all, um, these are all mostly carbon-based, um, carbon-based, um, you know, sort of compounds.
[45:19.530 --> 45:41.390]  And, um, you know, something we are working with actively in our lab is to, um, uh, is to use graphene and, graphene and carbon nanotubes, um, for these, um, for some of the layers of these devices we are making.
[45:41.390 --> 45:59.630]  Um, um, you know, so it, um, so certainly even at, um, even at some point in the, in the future, you could even see having, um, all, all carbon-based electronics.
[45:59.870 --> 46:10.030]  So you don't have any of these, um, um, any of these, um, crazy chemicals that you have in, um, um, have in all of the electronics now.
[46:11.850 --> 46:14.870]  Have you played with the light scribe etching stuff?
[46:15.890 --> 46:18.170]  Have I played with the light scribe etching stuff?
[46:18.290 --> 46:18.810]  No, I have not.
[46:19.610 --> 46:21.410]  You know, so then what is, what is special?
[46:27.790 --> 46:28.770]  Super peps.
[46:29.190 --> 46:29.530]  Hmm.
[46:30.290 --> 46:31.290]  Oh, yes.
[46:31.610 --> 46:31.910]  Yes.
[46:33.030 --> 46:37.190]  Um, um, you know, so then, yeah.
[46:37.770 --> 46:42.510]  Um, uh, yeah.
[46:42.510 --> 47:05.990]  You know, so what the question is about, um, there is, it was, um, uh, there is, um, there has been some work, um, showing you can use the, um, use the, you know, laser source, uh, from a light scribe, um, DVD drive, um, to build, uh, to build, um, you know, supercapacitors.
[47:06.830 --> 47:12.330]  So then, uh, so then certainly you could start to look at using that to build other types of devices as well.
[47:15.800 --> 47:17.160]  Like, are we done?
[47:17.380 --> 47:18.700]  Or, uh, sorry.
[47:18.900 --> 47:18.980]  Yeah.
[47:19.280 --> 47:20.980]  Thank you for pointing my thoughts on it.
[47:21.500 --> 47:22.540]  Uh, I'm doing the story right now.
[47:22.740 --> 47:23.500]  What's your yield?
[47:23.760 --> 47:26.260]  Like, what percentage of it have percentage of the work?
[47:27.140 --> 47:27.860]  I don't know.
[47:28.100 --> 47:38.540]  Um, our yield is, uh, if, if I get a 10% yield, I am happy.
[47:38.540 --> 47:39.300]  I am ecstatic.
[47:39.620 --> 47:39.680]  Yeah.
[47:40.220 --> 47:40.620]  Yeah.
[47:41.160 --> 47:41.560]  Yeah.
[47:41.860 --> 47:53.580]  So, yeah, um, um, certainly since this, since this is, you know, just like a research lab, um, so, um, so then a research scale.
[47:54.360 --> 48:05.920]  If I, um, uh, if I have a substrate where I'm making, making, say, like 40 of these, if I can find, uh, if I can, you know, find, like, you know, one of them that works, I'm happy.
[48:06.080 --> 48:06.460]  I'm done.
[48:06.460 --> 48:08.260]  I have done what I wanted to do and show.
[48:13.570 --> 48:14.630]  Any other questions?
[48:15.110 --> 48:15.570]  Comments?
[48:18.750 --> 48:19.350]  All right.