[00:27.450 --> 00:28.490]  Thank you.
[00:29.370 --> 00:29.890]  Welcome.
[00:30.130 --> 00:33.410]  This is one of the last talks that we'll be having this conference.
[00:33.670 --> 00:35.430]  It is Sunday, 1700, Area B.
[00:36.090 --> 00:40.430]  We're about to listen to Selfless Copy Fight, From Censorship to the New Business Models.
[00:40.430 --> 00:45.550]  Number 69, number 24, ladies and gentlemen, Jorge?
[00:46.870 --> 00:49.110]  Jorge Cortel and Alvaro Gonzalez.
[00:51.310 --> 00:52.030]  All right.
[01:01.740 --> 01:03.860]  Okay, I'll use this one.
[01:04.880 --> 01:17.820]  For the DVD viewers in the future and the streaming viewers right now, the whole is empty because we're competing against Jello Biafra on the next room.
[01:17.820 --> 01:19.780]  So that's like really tough to do.
[01:19.980 --> 01:24.820]  And also, it's almost the last conference in the conference, the last lecture in the conference.
[01:24.960 --> 01:26.600]  So everybody is just too tired.
[01:26.980 --> 01:33.800]  But anyways, for those of you who are here, I guarantee you there's a one million song free download price.
[01:34.400 --> 01:37.280]  So as long as you stick until the end.
[01:37.980 --> 01:38.200]  Okay.
[01:38.540 --> 01:39.840]  So let's go.
[01:39.840 --> 01:48.860]  So this is usually a four hour long speech, but we'll compress it loosely to 40 minutes.
[01:49.560 --> 01:51.640]  Basically, who am I?
[01:51.720 --> 01:56.100]  It doesn't matter what my resume says, although you can search.
[01:57.060 --> 02:05.960]  Officially, I am a war enemy of the United States, a rather war criminal of the United States.
[02:07.140 --> 02:09.900]  John Ashcroft, you can read the sentence there.
[02:10.440 --> 02:16.440]  He officially declared this country in a war against copyright infringement.
[02:16.900 --> 02:21.120]  So I am a United States copyright law infringer.
[02:22.980 --> 02:27.620]  Just like millions of people around the world, and just like most of you, most likely.
[02:30.040 --> 02:34.280]  In Wikipedia, if you look at my name, I'm not about that.
[02:34.480 --> 02:35.880]  I'm about one conference.
[02:36.100 --> 02:37.140]  That's all that matters.
[02:37.260 --> 02:38.520]  What happened in that conference?
[02:38.560 --> 02:41.680]  And why is it related to this speech?
[02:42.000 --> 02:48.700]  Well, I taught at a university, Valencia Polytechnic University in Spain, for five years.
[02:48.940 --> 02:49.840]  Intellectual property.
[02:49.900 --> 02:53.020]  I don't like the title, but that's what it was called.
[02:54.300 --> 02:58.400]  But outside the class, I was invited to a conference in the university.
[02:59.740 --> 03:04.720]  And they told me, do you like the idea of giving a conference about downloading and sharing is good?
[03:04.840 --> 03:05.860]  And I said, well, it sounds good.
[03:05.920 --> 03:06.580]  The title's good.
[03:07.140 --> 03:10.400]  It fits the way I think, and I can back that with data.
[03:10.700 --> 03:11.420]  So, sure.
[03:11.580 --> 03:11.940]  Good enough.
[03:12.820 --> 03:16.360]  There you got proof, and later on you'll see why proof is needed.
[03:16.780 --> 03:19.860]  Proof that I was a lecturer there in the university.
[03:19.860 --> 03:21.400]  Top rated one.
[03:22.100 --> 03:25.020]  Proof that I was invited to give that speech.
[03:25.320 --> 03:29.640]  Proof that the room was reserved for that speech.
[03:31.080 --> 03:38.980]  And then, this little facts right there thing is, one week before, more or less, I was to give that lecture.
[03:40.080 --> 03:49.260]  The Spanish Music Periodists Association, basically, went on a media rampage saying downloading from PGP networks is against the law in Spain.
[03:49.420 --> 03:50.080]  Which is not.
[03:50.580 --> 03:51.640]  I mean, our laws are different.
[03:52.000 --> 03:54.160]  We have a private copy provision, you don't.
[03:54.420 --> 03:58.360]  But basically, it is not against the law downloading anything from PGP networks in Spain.
[03:58.880 --> 04:01.500]  And that's been a pill in court many times.
[04:01.500 --> 04:04.800]  So, I said, you know, they are trying to confuse the people.
[04:04.940 --> 04:05.880]  They are trying to confuse the media.
[04:06.440 --> 04:10.620]  I think this lecture is a perfect chance to prove that they are wrong and they are misleading.
[04:10.960 --> 04:19.680]  So, I sent certified faxes and notices to the National Police High Tech Brigade.
[04:19.800 --> 04:22.460]  And to the National Association of Music Producers.
[04:23.080 --> 04:25.620]  Telling them that I was going to give a lecture on that.
[04:25.620 --> 04:28.680]  And I was going to download during that lecture.
[04:28.960 --> 04:33.140]  And if they thought it was illegal, they could just come and arrest me if they wanted to.
[04:33.640 --> 04:37.600]  Well, what happened next is just bizarre.
[04:40.060 --> 04:43.580]  What happened next is that they tried to censure my lecture.
[04:44.260 --> 04:45.700]  And the way they did it.
[04:45.980 --> 04:47.640]  And you have proof on there.
[04:47.740 --> 04:48.640]  And who they did it.
[04:48.780 --> 04:50.260]  And how they did it.
[04:50.300 --> 04:51.400]  It's really amazing.
[04:51.680 --> 04:54.260]  I went in the room at the scheduled time.
[04:54.260 --> 04:55.880]  And the security guard said, no.
[04:56.060 --> 04:56.720]  You can't.
[04:56.840 --> 04:57.880]  You can give the lecture here.
[04:58.060 --> 05:04.200]  Because basically, we've been told that this is under maintenance or closed for any other reason.
[05:04.260 --> 05:06.140]  You just can't give the lecture here.
[05:06.360 --> 05:07.440]  We went to another one.
[05:07.580 --> 05:09.580]  Another building that was supposed to be free.
[05:09.800 --> 05:14.840]  And all of a sudden, as we were walking towards there, the security guard came and said, you know what?
[05:14.940 --> 05:16.860]  There was a lecture scheduled there.
[05:16.960 --> 05:18.040]  Nobody knows about that.
[05:18.300 --> 05:20.000]  But you can't give the lecture there.
[05:20.400 --> 05:22.160]  So, I went to my classroom.
[05:22.440 --> 05:23.520]  Tried to give the lecture there.
[05:23.520 --> 05:26.500]  I knew there wasn't anybody there because I taught there.
[05:27.640 --> 05:32.440]  And the security guard at the door said, I was told not to let you in.
[05:33.380 --> 05:35.520]  Well, eventually asked, I mean, what's going on?
[05:35.580 --> 05:36.060]  What's the matter?
[05:36.260 --> 05:37.960]  And they said, well, don't quote me on this.
[05:38.040 --> 05:39.720]  I will not acknowledge this.
[05:39.720 --> 05:41.920]  But the call came directly from the dean.
[05:42.280 --> 05:45.200]  And he's been pressured not to let you give this lecture.
[05:45.260 --> 05:47.580]  And I said, well, you know, you can't shut my mouth.
[05:47.760 --> 05:48.980]  I mean, that's good or bad.
[05:48.980 --> 05:49.320]  I don't know.
[05:49.440 --> 05:50.360]  But you can't shut my mouth.
[05:50.360 --> 05:52.280]  So, I went into the cafeteria.
[05:53.260 --> 05:55.940]  I doubted that they could close down the cafeteria.
[05:56.140 --> 05:57.520]  You know, the most important part of the university.
[05:58.520 --> 06:02.240]  So, as you can see in the picture, I gave the lecture out there.
[06:02.840 --> 06:06.860]  And successfully, 250 people, somebody counted.
[06:08.500 --> 06:09.500]  And nothing happened.
[06:09.520 --> 06:13.400]  Because everything I said, it was about the law, about research, about data.
[06:13.400 --> 06:14.740]  I downloaded it.
[06:14.800 --> 06:15.180]  It's legal.
[06:15.380 --> 06:16.280]  Nothing happened, obviously.
[06:16.900 --> 06:16.980]  Okay.
[06:17.180 --> 06:22.840]  So, after the lecture, I was calling to the office of the master's degree program where I was teaching.
[06:23.020 --> 06:28.080]  And I was told, it's either you resign or everybody in this department gets fired.
[06:29.200 --> 06:30.780]  I'm like, ooh, nice proposition.
[06:31.380 --> 06:32.180]  Who said that?
[06:32.240 --> 06:32.900]  And he said, the dean.
[06:33.080 --> 06:34.340]  And I said, well, may I talk with him?
[06:34.360 --> 06:35.600]  And he said, I doubt it.
[06:35.960 --> 06:38.220]  May I talk with this legal advisor, with someone?
[06:38.360 --> 06:40.080]  And he said, well, don't look for more trouble.
[06:40.080 --> 06:41.760]  I have never looked for trouble, okay?
[06:42.200 --> 06:48.080]  So, what I did is resign and try to collect as much proof as possible of what was going on.
[06:48.280 --> 06:51.640]  And what I found, it really left me speechless.
[06:52.040 --> 06:58.700]  The Music Producer Association of America, the MPAA, called the dean in my university.
[06:58.840 --> 07:05.300]  I mean, from the States to Spain to say, don't let this guy speak about what the law says.
[07:06.100 --> 07:13.600]  I wasn't there to entice people to start a revolution or overthrow the government or bring the spears.
[07:13.800 --> 07:13.940]  You know.
[07:14.120 --> 07:15.780]  I wasn't there to do any of that.
[07:16.000 --> 07:19.560]  I was just going to teach them about the law.
[07:19.920 --> 07:24.460]  Well, these guys and their Spanish counterparts acknowledge doing that.
[07:25.060 --> 07:26.300]  And they use extortion.
[07:27.760 --> 07:31.500]  Again, people that knew about the phone calls told me, well, you know what they said?
[07:31.600 --> 07:37.600]  They said, if they let you speak, they'll send here investigators to investigate P2P downloading.
[07:38.220 --> 07:40.960]  And the university replied, well, it's legal, so what?
[07:41.140 --> 07:51.900]  Okay, we'll send in tax inspectors, software license inspectors, security safety inspectors, health inspector, and any kind of inspector you can ever imagine.
[07:52.040 --> 07:55.400]  And we'll catch you for something, you can be sure.
[07:55.900 --> 08:00.220]  So the dean basically shit his pants and gave in.
[08:00.900 --> 08:04.440]  So I was forced to quit.
[08:05.220 --> 08:06.580]  And what happened next?
[08:08.320 --> 08:14.820]  Well, what happened next is the world found out it was everywhere, Japan, Australia, England, it was all over the media.
[08:14.820 --> 08:16.620]  And so who cares?
[08:16.860 --> 08:18.660]  I really hate to be in the picture.
[08:18.960 --> 08:20.980]  But what's important is this.
[08:21.160 --> 08:26.440]  In this graph, you see the three concepts, which you can't see because it's cut out.
[08:26.580 --> 08:29.880]  But basically in blue, you see my name.
[08:30.260 --> 08:34.060]  In yellow, you see the term censorship in Spanish, censura.
[08:34.320 --> 08:35.840]  And in green, you see the university.
[08:36.140 --> 08:39.440]  And now that's the number of times it's been mentioned in blogs.
[08:40.080 --> 08:42.060]  Now they pick together.
[08:42.060 --> 08:45.400]  So people associate my name with the university with censorship.
[08:45.840 --> 08:49.220]  That's exactly the kind of publicity a university wants, right?
[08:49.440 --> 08:50.780]  So it was really good for them.
[08:51.000 --> 08:54.240]  It was a smart move, obviously, to give in.
[08:54.760 --> 08:55.960]  But then it went on.
[08:56.600 --> 08:57.380]  It went on.
[08:57.500 --> 09:09.040]  And some really strange things, like on the media, I could read things like, the guy that got fired was really never a lecturer in the university.
[09:09.240 --> 09:11.400]  Okay, how can I get fired if I wasn't a lecturer there?
[09:12.300 --> 09:16.680]  I mean, five years, they've been paying me for basically not doing anything.
[09:17.460 --> 09:20.960]  And all the students that I taught, I mean, it's ridiculous.
[09:21.340 --> 09:22.940]  That's why I said the proof was needed.
[09:23.420 --> 09:31.500]  Then they started threatening the university, threatening all the media, saying, if you talk to this guy, we will not let you in our university.
[09:31.660 --> 09:33.500]  We will not send you press releases.
[09:33.740 --> 09:34.960]  I mean, you'll be in the blacklist.
[09:35.240 --> 09:40.360]  If they talk to me, not if they bias for me or against it or something.
[09:40.440 --> 09:41.400]  No, if they talk to me.
[09:41.480 --> 09:43.860]  I mean, they did not want the story to be told.
[09:45.160 --> 09:46.340]  The pressure went on.
[09:46.440 --> 09:47.420]  I received threats.
[09:47.420 --> 09:54.740]  My company received two tax inspections in a row, even though for several years it's never received one.
[09:55.600 --> 10:00.280]  I personally received two tax inspections in a row, even though never received one before.
[10:02.100 --> 10:06.520]  Software inspection, even though we only use, almost only use free software.
[10:07.060 --> 10:08.020]  I mean, it was ridiculous.
[10:08.260 --> 10:11.320]  Obviously, someone was out to pressure to get me.
[10:11.900 --> 10:20.220]  Eventually, they found a dark spot on my resume, which is a degree that I got from some American university.
[10:20.540 --> 10:22.200]  This American university went down.
[10:23.160 --> 10:29.160]  The degree was not legal in Europe or compatible or whatever you want to say.
[10:29.580 --> 10:32.840]  Anyways, I've got degrees from seven universities.
[10:32.920 --> 10:35.380]  And they found this one that does not meet the requirements.
[10:35.380 --> 10:37.720]  And all the media said, this guy is bogus.
[10:37.780 --> 10:38.520]  This guy is lying.
[10:38.680 --> 10:39.740]  This guy is no one.
[10:39.800 --> 10:40.400]  Don't listen to him.
[10:40.820 --> 10:42.180]  Okay, then don't listen to me.
[10:42.600 --> 10:44.060]  Just look at the screen, okay?
[10:44.340 --> 10:44.920]  Don't listen to me.
[10:44.920 --> 10:46.820]  I can push in your minds.
[10:47.660 --> 10:49.240]  So what's this all about?
[10:49.500 --> 10:53.000]  What am I speaking about that makes everybody so nervous?
[10:54.860 --> 10:57.380]  Basically, the concept of intellectual property.
[10:57.500 --> 10:58.500]  That's what I want to talk about.
[10:58.620 --> 11:01.840]  Not specifics of the law, not what the situation is, but the concept.
[11:03.080 --> 11:05.040]  Whoever has the information has the power.
[11:05.140 --> 11:05.840]  You already know that.
[11:06.200 --> 11:11.320]  It's a cliche, but you can think of the Egyptian monks and Moses and the medieval church.
[11:11.320 --> 11:15.940]  If you don't know what all this is about, ask me in the corridor because we don't have time to go into specifics.
[11:16.140 --> 11:17.040]  But this is really interesting.
[11:18.320 --> 11:28.020]  History of copyright basically proves that it's a law that was enacted to force monopoly and to promote censorship.
[11:28.320 --> 11:30.160]  So that's where copyright started.
[11:30.420 --> 11:33.840]  And up until today, it is exactly that way.
[11:33.840 --> 11:35.480]  And we'll have plenty of time for debate.
[11:37.500 --> 11:42.320]  But what I want you to consider is it doesn't matter what the law says.
[11:42.500 --> 11:48.480]  What really matters is if it's fair or if it reflects your values or your needs or whatever, you know.
[11:48.820 --> 11:53.260]  But don't be blinded by, oh, the law says that, so I must obey, right?
[11:53.480 --> 11:59.200]  Okay, tell Germans during Nazi times or tell some Americans during Bush times.
[11:59.200 --> 12:03.340]  Even if the law says that, it doesn't mean that you have to obey.
[12:03.560 --> 12:05.880]  What you got to think of is, is it fair?
[12:06.100 --> 12:06.600]  Is it right?
[12:07.140 --> 12:14.020]  First time somebody asked that was Planides in Greece 400 years before Christ.
[12:15.320 --> 12:18.380]  Pedophilia was legal and socially accepted back then.
[12:19.060 --> 12:22.020]  Well, he asked in the Senate, is it right?
[12:22.220 --> 12:23.180]  I mean, is it okay?
[12:23.740 --> 12:26.580]  Well, what happened to him, I'm starting to understand.
[12:26.760 --> 12:30.660]  He got stabbed there by his Senate companions.
[12:32.060 --> 12:39.120]  So, but still, even if you risk being stabbed, I want you to consider what is the concept, not what the law says.
[12:39.280 --> 12:40.640]  So what is intellectual property?
[12:40.760 --> 12:42.320]  Why am I saying it is wrong?
[12:42.560 --> 12:44.720]  Why am I even saying it does not exist?
[12:44.980 --> 12:47.780]  We are regulating something that does not exist.
[12:47.780 --> 12:52.240]  Imagine regulating blue elephants that fly.
[12:52.640 --> 12:55.340]  Or even regulating their air traffic.
[12:57.380 --> 13:03.800]  And everybody is saying, oh yes, you violated air traffic blue elephant code and you must go to jail.
[13:03.980 --> 13:05.140]  And people are accepting that.
[13:05.280 --> 13:05.840]  It's ridiculous.
[13:06.180 --> 13:10.960]  So what is intellectual property and what makes me think that that does not make any sense?
[13:11.660 --> 13:13.740]  Okay, intellectual and property.
[13:14.380 --> 13:18.640]  Intellectual, not as common as it should be, but it's still easily identifiable.
[13:19.340 --> 13:21.300]  It comes from the intellect, right?
[13:21.560 --> 13:23.340]  And it's got to be communicated, simple enough.
[13:23.680 --> 13:26.160]  Or it doesn't have to be new, which would be patent.
[13:26.540 --> 13:28.180]  It just has to be original.
[13:28.680 --> 13:29.600]  Or it has to be fixed.
[13:29.660 --> 13:30.380]  It has to be communicated.
[13:30.520 --> 13:33.220]  They cannot regulate what you're thinking, what's on your mind only.
[13:33.260 --> 13:33.700]  They're trying.
[13:33.880 --> 13:34.820]  They're trying really hard.
[13:35.200 --> 13:37.700]  Some day they'll get there, but still today they can't do that.
[13:38.860 --> 13:41.060]  But property, that's the key.
[13:41.480 --> 13:42.240]  What's property?
[13:42.820 --> 13:46.400]  Now, economists define property in a very interesting way.
[13:46.540 --> 13:49.140]  And you know that economists define reality these days.
[13:49.420 --> 13:54.380]  So for something to be defined as property or to be property, it's got to have two characteristics.
[13:55.040 --> 13:59.020]  One is going to have antagonism, which means if I have it, you don't.
[13:59.480 --> 13:59.980]  You know?
[14:00.100 --> 14:00.760]  It's like your glasses.
[14:00.920 --> 14:01.780]  I take your glasses.
[14:01.960 --> 14:02.520]  Run away with them.
[14:02.740 --> 14:03.780]  You don't have your glasses.
[14:04.840 --> 14:05.520]  Simple concept.
[14:06.500 --> 14:12.260]  And it's got to be excludable, which means if I lock my house, you can't go in.
[14:12.600 --> 14:15.540]  I mean, if I secure my network, you can't go in, right?
[14:16.380 --> 14:18.720]  But the idea behind this is not about locks.
[14:18.860 --> 14:22.160]  It's about defining the edges, the boundaries, okay?
[14:22.620 --> 14:29.360]  If you can lock it, if you can grab it and go away with it and not let me touch it, it's because it's definable easily.
[14:29.660 --> 14:32.780]  Now, does the air fit in that category?
[14:34.480 --> 14:35.480]  What's my air?
[14:35.640 --> 14:35.820]  You know?
[14:35.880 --> 14:36.200]  Vertical?
[14:36.320 --> 14:36.780]  Horizontal?
[14:36.980 --> 14:37.200]  You know?
[14:37.240 --> 14:38.540]  Are we breathing the same air?
[14:38.800 --> 14:39.840]  That makes some people nervous.
[14:42.180 --> 14:43.940]  That's why air is not property.
[14:44.100 --> 14:48.360]  I mean, it was tested in court years ago and the judge said it's not property.
[14:48.500 --> 14:48.640]  Okay.
[14:49.120 --> 14:51.060]  I've seen air being sold in bottles.
[14:51.740 --> 14:54.260]  I've seen people stupid enough to buy them.
[14:56.180 --> 14:57.280]  I was one of them.
[14:57.280 --> 15:00.840]  I wanted to buy one and bring it here, but I didn't have any cash at the moment.
[15:00.960 --> 15:02.040]  They weren't taking credit cards.
[15:03.580 --> 15:07.700]  But basically, that's turning something that is not, you know, excludable.
[15:08.120 --> 15:10.340]  When you put it in the bottle, then it is excludable.
[15:10.440 --> 15:13.960]  I mean, you create something that is not property, I mean, you turn it into property.
[15:14.440 --> 15:19.180]  That's what the industry, the copyright industry has been doing for 200 years, basically.
[15:19.480 --> 15:21.420]  They can the products.
[15:21.600 --> 15:22.380]  They put them in the can.
[15:23.280 --> 15:26.940]  CD, vinyl, you know, they put it in the can as long as you can touch it.
[15:26.940 --> 15:29.040]  And define it, then it becomes property.
[15:29.300 --> 15:31.460]  But what happens when that is not the case?
[15:33.700 --> 15:34.940]  Is it time for a change?
[15:35.180 --> 15:37.420]  Is it time for us to think that some things change?
[15:37.700 --> 15:40.220]  I mean, allow yourselves to change.
[15:40.340 --> 15:41.800]  I mean, you're in a hackers conference.
[15:41.920 --> 15:43.480]  I mean, you should be used to change.
[15:43.600 --> 15:44.920]  And if not, check your network.
[15:46.900 --> 15:49.860]  But throughout history, we've seen things change.
[15:50.260 --> 15:51.500]  Things like slavery.
[15:52.460 --> 15:55.320]  Not so many years ago, 1865.
[15:55.540 --> 16:02.360]  In this country, it was not only legal, but the basis of the economy of half of the country was slavery.
[16:02.560 --> 16:09.100]  And the slave owners were proud members of the community, and everybody thought it was, hey, why not?
[16:09.100 --> 16:10.760]  And then something changed.
[16:11.220 --> 16:13.900]  The story is not as rosy as they want you to think.
[16:14.500 --> 16:18.360]  But basically, something changed, and now we think, slavery, how could we ever?
[16:18.740 --> 16:19.000]  Right?
[16:19.380 --> 16:19.960]  That's my point.
[16:20.560 --> 16:25.960]  At some point in history, I hope that we'll say, intellectual property, how could we ever?
[16:26.180 --> 16:28.380]  And I'll show you how, and I'll show you why.
[16:29.560 --> 16:31.240]  What makes me think that it's time to change?
[16:31.700 --> 16:35.080]  Because it's been a paradigm change, digitalization.
[16:35.740 --> 16:39.580]  You can make exact copies, so antagonism goes away.
[16:39.820 --> 16:46.760]  If I copy, exact copy, your PDF, your e-book, you have the book, I have the book, the exact same e-book.
[16:47.180 --> 16:48.460]  You can run away with it.
[16:48.700 --> 16:50.300]  I can stay here with it.
[16:50.440 --> 16:51.560]  And nothing happens.
[16:51.880 --> 16:53.360]  Now, that doesn't happen with a real book.
[16:53.480 --> 16:56.760]  If you take my book and go away at the night, left without the book.
[16:56.920 --> 16:58.080]  So there is a change there.
[16:58.660 --> 17:00.000]  There's another big change.
[17:00.980 --> 17:04.200]  Freedom of expression, for many years it did not exist.
[17:04.460 --> 17:06.040]  For many years we thought it existed.
[17:06.220 --> 17:07.460]  Someday it will really exist.
[17:08.500 --> 17:15.100]  But you cannot exclude intellectual property, ideas, creations, from people.
[17:15.260 --> 17:18.580]  It's like, if I said, okay, I'm changing my mind.
[17:18.660 --> 17:20.720]  You know this conference should be under copyright.
[17:20.880 --> 17:22.200]  I want the copyright enforced.
[17:22.520 --> 17:24.560]  So everybody, hey, you're leaving.
[17:24.680 --> 17:24.960]  You're leaving.
[17:24.960 --> 17:30.600]  Before you leave, pull a string out of your ear and give me back what I said.
[17:30.680 --> 17:31.200]  I'm joking.
[17:31.320 --> 17:31.940]  You can go.
[17:34.480 --> 17:36.840]  If it was really property, they could do it.
[17:37.000 --> 17:39.540]  I mean, if they run away with my laptop, I could say, hey, wait.
[17:39.780 --> 17:40.600]  Give it back to me.
[17:41.120 --> 17:45.840]  But they can't give back what I just said, what they just heard and hopefully listened to.
[17:46.880 --> 17:47.680]  They can't.
[17:47.960 --> 17:50.360]  So it is not excludable.
[17:50.360 --> 17:56.500]  So if antagonism doesn't exist and if it's not excludable, then it is not property.
[17:57.380 --> 17:58.180]  Clear enough?
[17:58.440 --> 17:59.160]  Okay, good.
[17:59.540 --> 18:03.160]  Then we have the very low cost of reproduction, distribution, everything.
[18:03.300 --> 18:04.220]  I mean, things have changed.
[18:04.460 --> 18:05.260]  Basically, things have changed.
[18:05.360 --> 18:05.800]  You know that.
[18:07.440 --> 18:12.580]  If anything, if you've got to remember only one thing from this speech, it's got to be this sentence.
[18:12.580 --> 18:13.020]  Okay?
[18:13.260 --> 18:14.320]  Or something that he says.
[18:14.440 --> 18:14.620]  I don't know.
[18:14.760 --> 18:16.480]  But it's got to be this sentence from my part.
[18:17.940 --> 18:23.500]  If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples, then we both still have one apple each.
[18:23.700 --> 18:23.840]  Right?
[18:23.920 --> 18:24.180]  Simple.
[18:24.480 --> 18:30.640]  But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange ideas, then we both have two ideas.
[18:31.800 --> 18:32.460]  That's the key.
[18:33.360 --> 18:37.140]  I mean, look who said that and how long ago.
[18:39.480 --> 18:41.280]  I'll skip this for the debate part.
[18:42.300 --> 18:46.040]  Fallacies and lies that the media wants you to believe and the industry wants you to believe.
[18:46.240 --> 18:52.560]  And I'll make a simple story for those who are still not getting it.
[18:53.780 --> 18:59.460]  Imagine that you just listen to all I said and all you can think of the law, the law, the law.
[18:59.580 --> 19:01.560]  And you exit the door and a green Martian...
[19:01.560 --> 19:04.440]  Now, by the way, why do Martians always got to be green?
[19:04.440 --> 19:04.860]  I don't know.
[19:05.000 --> 19:07.420]  Somebody make an orange Martian movie, please.
[19:08.280 --> 19:12.580]  A green Martian asks you, you know, I just landed in your world.
[19:12.700 --> 19:13.760]  And they speak English.
[19:13.900 --> 19:14.500]  Isn't that strange?
[19:14.620 --> 19:14.800]  Anyways.
[19:17.080 --> 19:20.760]  I just landed in your world and please tell me as much as you can about it.
[19:20.800 --> 19:23.420]  And you just came out of the conference and said, you know, the copyright law.
[19:23.560 --> 19:24.420]  You got to know about that.
[19:24.540 --> 19:25.280]  You know, first thing.
[19:26.440 --> 19:28.280]  If not, you will be an enemy of the United States.
[19:28.520 --> 19:29.280]  And they'll shoot you.
[19:30.940 --> 19:32.100]  And you explain it to him.
[19:32.100 --> 19:34.160]  And he's like, okay, wait, I don't get it.
[19:35.100 --> 19:41.220]  So you're saying, if you debate politics with your neighbor, that's within the copyright law?
[19:41.400 --> 19:42.060]  And you're like, what?
[19:42.580 --> 19:48.740]  I mean, if you bake cookies for your son's soccer game, that's it?
[19:48.900 --> 19:49.480]  I mean, fit?
[19:49.600 --> 19:50.300]  Do you charge him?
[19:50.620 --> 19:52.300]  And you're like, he didn't get it.
[19:52.300 --> 19:54.780]  And he tells you, well, yeah.
[19:54.920 --> 19:58.640]  I mean, you invested time, invested effort.
[19:58.920 --> 19:59.920]  It was a creation.
[20:00.240 --> 20:02.160]  And you gave it to someone.
[20:02.900 --> 20:04.060]  Shouldn't it be protected?
[20:04.100 --> 20:05.320]  And shouldn't you be paid for it?
[20:06.020 --> 20:07.180]  And that makes you think.
[20:07.480 --> 20:08.180]  And you're like, huh?
[20:09.080 --> 20:10.440]  This Martian made me think.
[20:11.620 --> 20:13.180]  And then you got two paths.
[20:13.460 --> 20:14.820]  You got the dark side.
[20:15.700 --> 20:17.200]  And you got the other side.
[20:18.500 --> 20:21.620]  Whichever path you choose, it will be very important for the future.
[20:21.760 --> 20:25.100]  But for those of you who choose the dark path, you may leave now.
[20:26.080 --> 20:28.060]  The dark path will be like, you're right.
[20:28.180 --> 20:29.400]  I should charge for everything.
[20:29.580 --> 20:31.120]  I should keep everything locked.
[20:31.280 --> 20:34.340]  I should be putting copyright on everything I say and everything I do.
[20:34.840 --> 20:37.360]  The other idea is, well, he's right.
[20:37.740 --> 20:40.660]  How did we ever think that copyright is right?
[20:40.660 --> 20:48.960]  How did we ever think that just because I'm investing time, just because I'm investing money, and just because, you know, you got two options.
[20:51.540 --> 21:01.660]  My point is, until now, it didn't matter if it was copyright, credit commons, copyright, whatever you wanted to say.
[21:01.920 --> 21:03.280]  Everything was on one side.
[21:03.440 --> 21:03.900]  Really.
[21:04.280 --> 21:05.640]  Because there was no alternative.
[21:05.860 --> 21:06.780]  This is my proposition.
[21:07.460 --> 21:08.020]  Selfness.
[21:10.080 --> 21:16.100]  Selfness is a concept that some Spanish, Xavier Suvidi, talked about years ago.
[21:16.460 --> 21:19.760]  He was referring to another rion, the persons.
[21:20.020 --> 21:21.700]  But I apply it to creations.
[21:22.600 --> 21:22.880]  Okay.
[21:23.040 --> 21:39.060]  When you say, my neighbor, my son, my brother, my father, whatever, are you implying, are you saying that they are yours, physically yours, property of you, belonging to you?
[21:39.240 --> 21:47.620]  I mean, if it was the case, you could, like, chop them up in pieces and sell them by the dollar, throw them out the window, you know, rent them.
[21:47.980 --> 21:49.760]  You could do anything, because it was yours.
[21:49.760 --> 21:50.500]  It was your property.
[21:50.860 --> 21:51.500]  Obviously not.
[21:51.680 --> 21:54.160]  I mean, some people think that's the case, but they are not.
[21:54.840 --> 21:56.840]  There are many nuts in many organizations.
[21:57.800 --> 21:58.600]  Obviously not.
[21:58.820 --> 22:06.340]  So, if they are not your property, but you call them my, you know, like, my son, then what are they?
[22:07.140 --> 22:09.360]  Suvidi said they are selfness.
[22:09.560 --> 22:11.020]  They have selfness.
[22:11.200 --> 22:12.540]  They are of themselves.
[22:12.800 --> 22:13.720]  They are not yours.
[22:13.940 --> 22:15.300]  It's a trick of the language.
[22:15.300 --> 22:17.560]  And we've come accustomed with that.
[22:17.640 --> 22:17.960]  It's mine.
[22:18.080 --> 22:18.240]  It's mine.
[22:18.320 --> 22:18.500]  It's mine.
[22:18.700 --> 22:19.480]  Just like creations.
[22:20.060 --> 22:25.320]  They want you to believe that whatever you sing, whatever you write, whatever you create, is yours.
[22:26.200 --> 22:27.780]  It's exactly the same as your son.
[22:28.600 --> 22:31.140]  Now, to have a son, you need to invest.
[22:31.900 --> 22:32.300]  Okay?
[22:32.700 --> 22:35.200]  Those of you who are parents already know what I'm talking about.
[22:35.900 --> 22:36.720]  Invest money.
[22:37.140 --> 22:37.960]  Lots of money.
[22:38.180 --> 22:39.320]  Every weekend, at least.
[22:40.060 --> 22:40.760]  Invest time.
[22:41.460 --> 22:41.900]  Okay.
[22:42.100 --> 22:44.380]  Creating the son may be the most fun part.
[22:44.380 --> 22:49.060]  But then you've got a lifelong time investment that is not so much fun.
[22:49.540 --> 22:50.940]  Invest a lot of effort.
[22:51.240 --> 22:52.280]  Lots of effort.
[22:52.540 --> 22:53.020]  You know?
[22:53.400 --> 22:54.860]  But still, it's not yours.
[22:56.340 --> 22:57.120]  That's the key.
[22:57.540 --> 23:01.080]  Try to apply that concept to intellectual creations and see what happens.
[23:01.480 --> 23:09.000]  Some of you, you know, mainly major record label attorneys, which I don't see any here, because they are required to wear a tie.
[23:11.060 --> 23:13.660]  Some of you may think, you know, that's nuts.
[23:13.660 --> 23:18.200]  If we apply that concept to this industry, then everything will go bonkers.
[23:18.300 --> 23:19.260]  And I'll prove you wrong.
[23:19.880 --> 23:21.940]  Basically, that's my proposition.
[23:23.160 --> 23:23.680]  What...
[23:23.680 --> 23:25.680]  Where does that leave us?
[23:26.320 --> 23:28.140]  Well, there you have what I call the continuum.
[23:28.300 --> 23:29.260]  The licenses continuum.
[23:29.480 --> 23:31.860]  You have, on one side, censorship.
[23:33.120 --> 23:38.820]  And then you start moving towards copyright, creative commons, the GPL.
[23:39.040 --> 23:40.240]  I'm sorry, Mr. Stallman.
[23:40.440 --> 23:42.720]  You know, I think you are the boss.
[23:42.780 --> 23:43.640]  You are the man, whatever.
[23:43.960 --> 23:45.500]  But public domain.
[23:45.700 --> 23:46.740]  All up to there.
[23:47.440 --> 23:48.780]  Everything is limited.
[23:48.780 --> 23:53.480]  Because licensors are agreements, are contracts.
[23:54.320 --> 23:56.540]  You have to ask for permission.
[23:56.780 --> 23:57.920]  You are granting permission.
[23:58.160 --> 23:59.040]  Basically, you're begging.
[24:00.560 --> 24:02.080]  And we're talking about freedom here.
[24:02.980 --> 24:10.980]  Now, the only way that a creation could be free is a no license, no copyright, no nothing.
[24:11.580 --> 24:11.980]  You know?
[24:11.980 --> 24:12.660]  Just like my son.
[24:12.840 --> 24:13.620]  If he wants to walk...
[24:13.620 --> 24:15.820]  Well, whenever he's old enough.
[24:16.420 --> 24:19.500]  If he wants to walk out of the house, fine.
[24:19.760 --> 24:20.340]  I'm sorry.
[24:20.480 --> 24:21.020]  I'll cry.
[24:21.180 --> 24:21.760]  I don't know.
[24:21.940 --> 24:23.200]  But he'll walk out of the house.
[24:24.060 --> 24:27.740]  If you work for someone, will I think, oh, they're taking advantage of my creation.
[24:27.760 --> 24:28.560]  I should get a cut.
[24:29.780 --> 24:31.460]  Well, that's exactly what we do with music.
[24:31.660 --> 24:32.820]  And books and movies.
[24:33.760 --> 24:39.240]  So selfness would mean no copyright, no license, no begging, no asking, no nothing.
[24:39.240 --> 24:39.980]  You know?
[24:40.360 --> 24:42.760]  And we'll see what happens in the market.
[24:43.180 --> 24:48.820]  You have an ex-president, a third president of the United States that thinks exactly the way I think.
[24:49.140 --> 24:50.540]  Now, I'm not so crazy.
[24:50.760 --> 24:55.000]  Or you elect crazy people for president, which might be the case.
[24:55.880 --> 24:57.060]  Okay, current situation.
[24:58.500 --> 25:00.220]  Like I said, I have to compress this.
[25:00.280 --> 25:01.840]  So this is the one part I'm skipping.
[25:02.500 --> 25:04.860]  Now, I assume you already know that copyright sucks.
[25:05.080 --> 25:07.440]  And if you don't, just read all these cases.
[25:07.680 --> 25:08.580]  There are so many examples.
[25:08.580 --> 25:10.040]  I mean, anybody here...
[25:10.040 --> 25:12.200]  I mean, I'm not going to hit anyone.
[25:12.320 --> 25:13.420]  So you can raise your hand if you want.
[25:14.280 --> 25:16.740]  Anybody here that still thinks that copyright is cool?
[25:16.940 --> 25:19.340]  I mean, or doesn't see any problem with copyright?
[25:19.760 --> 25:20.060]  All right.
[25:20.460 --> 25:22.420]  You just want to prolong this, right?
[25:24.800 --> 25:25.200]  Okay.
[25:25.480 --> 25:30.240]  I could give you so many examples that we could be going on for hours.
[25:30.340 --> 25:34.640]  In fact, I'll be available there in the corridor for as long as you want to debate with me.
[25:34.640 --> 25:35.080]  Okay.
[25:35.200 --> 25:36.060]  But just one example.
[25:36.320 --> 25:41.080]  Do you find it right to charge kids in summer camps for singing music?
[25:41.600 --> 25:42.100]  Singing.
[25:42.380 --> 25:43.660]  They are singing music.
[25:44.200 --> 25:50.640]  And they have to pay, because they're singing music, only for that concept, to the American Society of Compositions and Authors.
[25:51.000 --> 25:51.720]  Do you find it right?
[25:52.180 --> 26:01.920]  I mean, you find it right that in Finland, taxi drivers got to pay to the Society of Music Producers because they have the radio in the taxi.
[26:02.160 --> 26:04.740]  I mean, anybody knows that we get in the taxi to listen to the radio.
[26:06.240 --> 26:08.400]  You know, they always got the best stations, you know?
[26:09.720 --> 26:13.180]  Now, they only pay like $20 a year, which is not bad.
[26:13.300 --> 26:17.620]  And that's because they are driving with their windows up, because it's cold in Finland.
[26:18.640 --> 26:25.720]  If they did roll their windows down, it would be public diffusion, I mean, public emission music, and then they probably have to pay more.
[26:26.800 --> 26:31.540]  If you think that copyright is right, we can go have dinner and talk for hours.
[26:31.840 --> 26:34.780]  But basically, everybody else seems to agree with me.
[26:34.980 --> 26:37.420]  So, let's look for solutions.
[26:37.580 --> 26:40.960]  I hate people who say, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, let's have a beer.
[26:41.240 --> 26:41.440]  No.
[26:42.000 --> 26:44.200]  This is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, now what do we do now?
[26:45.860 --> 26:48.220]  First, let me talk about the wrong solutions.
[26:48.220 --> 26:53.940]  Many people proposing things like, in Spain, we pay a royalty for every blank media sold.
[26:54.500 --> 27:00.440]  For every photocopy, scanner, printer, blank CD, blank DVD, cassette tape.
[27:00.780 --> 27:03.240]  You cannot believe for the things that we pay for.
[27:03.320 --> 27:08.160]  And we pay for in excess of, what was it, $500 million a year.
[27:09.400 --> 27:15.820]  This money should be going to the authors, but 30% automatically is deducted, and it goes into somebody's pocket.
[27:16.380 --> 27:20.480]  And we know who it is, but I have enough legal problems already.
[27:23.620 --> 27:28.200]  Then, most of that money is not accounted for, and the government is not asking for any accountability.
[27:28.660 --> 27:31.760]  So, I mean, this method is just asking for corruption.
[27:32.320 --> 27:38.220]  I mean, you guys have enough corruptions in your governments, and don't try to export this into Africa, you know.
[27:38.460 --> 27:44.760]  So, I think any solution that is making it easy for corrupt people to take advantage of is not the right solution.
[27:45.800 --> 27:53.220]  legal prosecution for mere possession of technology that may allow you to override DRM.
[27:53.660 --> 27:56.660]  Now, any of you who do not know what DRM is?
[27:57.100 --> 27:57.700]  Anti-copy?
[27:57.780 --> 27:58.600]  Okay, you know what it is.
[27:58.920 --> 27:59.100]  Good.
[27:59.640 --> 28:06.560]  In Spain, if you have any technology that will allow you to override DRM, you are basically breaking the law.
[28:06.760 --> 28:07.480]  Criminal law.
[28:07.680 --> 28:08.640]  Two years in jail.
[28:08.640 --> 28:12.860]  What is technology that allows you to override DRM?
[28:13.020 --> 28:15.220]  Like narrow-burning application?
[28:15.540 --> 28:16.580]  It is.
[28:17.080 --> 28:19.320]  Like the shift key?
[28:22.660 --> 28:29.180]  Now, I know a president of a country who owns a laptop that has a shift key.
[28:29.560 --> 28:30.400]  Could we?
[28:31.300 --> 28:32.720]  I mean, who needs impeachment?
[28:33.140 --> 28:33.240]  You know.
[28:34.160 --> 28:34.460]  Okay.
[28:35.580 --> 28:36.780]  Anyways, this is ridiculous.
[28:36.940 --> 28:37.860]  This is not the way, obviously.
[28:38.720 --> 28:40.040]  Then you have more strict laws.
[28:40.240 --> 28:40.820]  People say, no.
[28:41.220 --> 28:43.700]  Not 70 years, 80 years, 90 years, 100 years.
[28:43.880 --> 28:44.460]  More copyright.
[28:44.680 --> 28:45.660]  More people in jail.
[28:45.860 --> 28:46.520]  More lawsuits.
[28:47.380 --> 28:48.800]  Do you know what that's taking us?
[28:49.220 --> 28:50.040]  Backwards in time.
[28:50.260 --> 28:51.420]  That's exactly what they want.
[28:51.520 --> 28:52.380]  They want to go backwards in time.
[28:52.440 --> 28:53.220]  You can't do that.
[28:53.280 --> 28:55.260]  You can do many things, but not going backwards in time yet.
[28:56.240 --> 28:59.000]  So, this debate, as you can see, 1841.
[28:59.240 --> 29:01.400]  This debate has been going on for centuries.
[29:02.500 --> 29:03.720]  And it's not going to stop.
[29:04.680 --> 29:08.220]  And it all boils down to the author compensation.
[29:08.740 --> 29:10.540]  How do authors make money?
[29:10.740 --> 29:11.640]  Or how do...
[29:11.640 --> 29:13.360]  How could authors make money?
[29:13.520 --> 29:16.040]  Or how should authors make money?
[29:16.280 --> 29:19.280]  Now, there are several ways to make money, you know, legally.
[29:21.240 --> 29:21.720]  One...
[29:21.720 --> 29:22.500]  Not money.
[29:22.660 --> 29:25.000]  Okay, I've been saying money, but I should have said compensation.
[29:25.000 --> 29:27.760]  Because number one is what I call voluntary work.
[29:28.160 --> 29:31.380]  I mean, some of you will volunteer, I don't know, Red Cross or whatever.
[29:31.620 --> 29:33.300]  And feed the homeless or whatever.
[29:33.880 --> 29:35.720]  Now, you probably do not get paid for that.
[29:35.820 --> 29:36.580]  But you feel happy.
[29:36.740 --> 29:37.560]  And you do it.
[29:37.620 --> 29:38.280]  And you do work.
[29:38.380 --> 29:39.220]  And you do not get paid.
[29:39.260 --> 29:39.860]  And you're happy.
[29:40.120 --> 29:40.840]  And it works.
[29:41.260 --> 29:42.760]  So, that would be one method.
[29:42.960 --> 29:45.140]  That's the traditional method in art.
[29:45.500 --> 29:46.880]  90% of artists...
[29:46.880 --> 29:48.540]  I'm making this number up, but more or less.
[29:49.320 --> 29:53.880]  Play music, write, compose, create, and do not expect to be paid ever.
[29:53.880 --> 29:53.940]  Sure.
[29:54.580 --> 29:55.620]  So, that's okay.
[29:56.000 --> 29:57.000]  We can leave it there.
[29:57.240 --> 30:00.480]  I'm not saying that it should be for all authors and for all creations.
[30:00.860 --> 30:01.840]  But that's...
[30:01.840 --> 30:02.820]  We gotta keep that in mind.
[30:02.940 --> 30:03.080]  Okay?
[30:03.300 --> 30:04.220]  It's possible.
[30:04.480 --> 30:09.860]  In Spain, they are trying to push a law that says, no creation can be free.
[30:11.260 --> 30:12.020]  Think about it.
[30:12.900 --> 30:13.080]  Okay.
[30:13.200 --> 30:16.200]  So, if this cannot be free, what do I get the money from?
[30:16.460 --> 30:17.240]  Oh, we'll find a way.
[30:17.480 --> 30:18.260]  We'll put a new tax.
[30:18.580 --> 30:19.740]  And somebody will pay you.
[30:20.560 --> 30:24.020]  You should be entitled $10, but they'll pay you one, and they'll keep nine, and you know.
[30:24.740 --> 30:25.100]  So...
[30:26.580 --> 30:28.440]  Option number two, work for hire.
[30:28.700 --> 30:30.440]  Most of us work for hire.
[30:30.860 --> 30:34.840]  Work, get paid by the hour, by the week, by the month, by whatever, by objectives, by whatever.
[30:34.840 --> 30:36.300]  And that's perfectly fine.
[30:36.920 --> 30:39.680]  And in Spain, it's not as usual as here.
[30:39.940 --> 30:40.760]  Here's quite usual.
[30:40.960 --> 30:42.180]  But that's option number two.
[30:42.280 --> 30:43.440]  And everybody should be happy with this.
[30:43.600 --> 30:44.560]  Hey, compose a song.
[30:44.700 --> 30:45.720]  I don't feel like it.
[30:45.960 --> 30:46.980]  I'll give you $8,000.
[30:47.320 --> 30:48.340]  Okay, I feel like it.
[30:48.800 --> 30:49.580]  You know, fine.
[30:49.680 --> 30:52.100]  Or, I don't feel like it because, you know, I'm the Rolling Stones.
[30:52.280 --> 30:53.940]  You gotta pay me $100 million to do that.
[30:54.060 --> 30:54.580]  Okay, here.
[30:54.760 --> 30:55.260]  Okay, fine.
[30:55.660 --> 30:56.700]  No problem with that.
[30:57.660 --> 30:59.600]  Now, option number three, speculation.
[31:00.480 --> 31:02.320]  That's what the current system is based on.
[31:02.540 --> 31:03.580]  Okay, you compose a song.
[31:03.580 --> 31:04.620]  I don't pay you anything.
[31:04.920 --> 31:05.480]  You wait.
[31:05.920 --> 31:10.260]  I'll create discs, physical objects, or downloadable music with DRM, of course.
[31:10.540 --> 31:15.640]  And then, we don't know how much that is going to be sold, but you'll get a cut.
[31:16.300 --> 31:17.220]  A small cut.
[31:17.320 --> 31:17.940]  A tiny cut.
[31:18.100 --> 31:19.200]  But you'll get paid.
[31:19.340 --> 31:23.960]  And we'll ride you in limos, and the media will take pictures of you, and you'll be happy.
[31:24.100 --> 31:24.500]  Okay, fine.
[31:25.420 --> 31:30.440]  To me, that's not so acceptable, but still, it's okay.
[31:30.440 --> 31:32.760]  If you want to get into that, you know, that's possible.
[31:32.760 --> 31:38.200]  But then, the model that exists in the IP world, the intellectual property world, does not make sense.
[31:38.600 --> 31:41.840]  Licensing, royalties, you know, that is crazy.
[31:42.020 --> 31:45.060]  And we can discuss that, but again, for time's sake, we'll go on.
[31:45.780 --> 31:46.720]  What's the alternative?
[31:47.220 --> 31:48.500]  The free code.
[31:48.940 --> 31:50.940]  I specifically said free code.
[31:51.120 --> 31:55.360]  Open source, free software, open code, whatever you want to call it.
[31:55.360 --> 31:56.060]  Okay?
[31:56.320 --> 32:01.360]  I'm more of a free software rather than open source, but okay, whatever.
[32:01.620 --> 32:02.900]  The free code thingy.
[32:03.660 --> 32:09.320]  It's been applied to software, to books, to content, to music, to industrial products, to research.
[32:09.940 --> 32:13.000]  Why cannot it apply to everything else?
[32:14.000 --> 32:15.860]  What are the alternatives to copyright?
[32:15.860 --> 32:16.420]  Okay.
[32:17.720 --> 32:19.480]  Say, copyright did not exist.
[32:20.320 --> 32:20.600]  Okay?
[32:22.260 --> 32:23.280]  We'll talk about that later.
[32:24.120 --> 32:24.880]  What would you do?
[32:25.220 --> 32:26.300]  You want to be a musician.
[32:26.400 --> 32:27.040]  You want to be famous.
[32:27.160 --> 32:29.360]  You got a song that you know is going to be a hit.
[32:29.860 --> 32:30.600]  So what do you do?
[32:30.720 --> 32:32.540]  You don't have, quote, protection.
[32:32.940 --> 32:34.540]  Now, let me tell you something about protection.
[32:34.540 --> 32:39.840]  Have you seen a movie that goes something like, oh, two guys walk into a bar and this is not a joke.
[32:40.240 --> 32:45.000]  Two guys walk into a bar and go to the bartender, bar owner and say, oh, you know what?
[32:45.800 --> 32:46.820]  You need protection.
[32:47.020 --> 32:50.180]  So give us a hundred bucks and you'll get it.
[32:50.880 --> 32:52.880]  And the bar owner says, well, I don't need protection.
[32:53.040 --> 32:53.600]  You know, I'm fine.
[32:53.740 --> 32:56.320]  It's like, well, you will need protection.
[32:56.820 --> 33:00.360]  So give us a hundred bucks or the bar burns down and we break your legs.
[33:01.600 --> 33:02.320]  That's protection.
[33:02.320 --> 33:04.120]  That's the protection of copyright.
[33:04.780 --> 33:05.220]  Okay.
[33:05.320 --> 33:08.820]  Give us $5,000 and we will not sue you for downloading P2P.
[33:09.100 --> 33:09.780]  That's protection.
[33:09.780 --> 33:11.400]  In my world, it's called extortion.
[33:11.940 --> 33:12.460]  Okay.
[33:12.480 --> 33:14.140]  But that's what the copyright law does.
[33:14.340 --> 33:17.560]  So what protection do you really need?
[33:17.740 --> 33:19.380]  You need market protection.
[33:19.660 --> 33:21.400]  Who has market protection?
[33:21.760 --> 33:23.040]  Think of your company.
[33:23.220 --> 33:24.660]  Who protects your company in the market?
[33:24.760 --> 33:25.140]  No one.
[33:25.740 --> 33:26.200]  You.
[33:26.820 --> 33:33.340]  Your speed, your ability, your quality, your product, your pricing, your contacts, your advertising.
[33:33.600 --> 33:34.060]  I don't know.
[33:34.220 --> 33:35.200]  But you got a secret.
[33:35.380 --> 33:37.500]  And that's what keeps your business running.
[33:37.860 --> 33:46.860]  So in the copyright world, industry, intellectual property, what can you do to beat everyone else to the market and be protected in the market?
[33:46.980 --> 33:48.260]  Well, be first to market.
[33:48.460 --> 33:50.440]  Obviously, if you create something, you're going to be first.
[33:51.000 --> 33:53.780]  No matter how fast they copy you, you'll be first.
[33:54.280 --> 34:01.540]  And you've seen these people that wait eight days in line to see Lord of the Rings and don't...
[34:01.540 --> 34:03.240]  I mean, I know people like that.
[34:04.040 --> 34:06.160]  These people are going to see the premiere.
[34:06.540 --> 34:11.900]  They're not going to see tomorrow or somebody copied it from the screen and then they can buy it in the street.
[34:12.020 --> 34:12.120]  No.
[34:12.300 --> 34:12.980]  They want it.
[34:13.040 --> 34:13.820]  They want it first.
[34:13.940 --> 34:14.620]  They want to pay.
[34:14.800 --> 34:16.020]  And they'll wait there in line.
[34:16.020 --> 34:18.220]  There is a market for being first.
[34:18.420 --> 34:20.340]  And obviously, the author, it is going to be first.
[34:21.420 --> 34:22.220]  Brand recognition.
[34:22.500 --> 34:24.640]  I mean, if you become the Rolling Stones, you don't need anyone.
[34:24.900 --> 34:26.020]  You don't need record labels.
[34:26.080 --> 34:26.760]  You don't need lawyers.
[34:26.860 --> 34:27.420]  You don't need anything.
[34:27.560 --> 34:28.820]  You are the Rolling Stones.
[34:30.120 --> 34:31.500]  How do you get brand recognition?
[34:32.700 --> 34:33.140]  Exposure.
[34:33.540 --> 34:33.980]  Distribution.
[34:34.260 --> 34:34.920]  Free distribution.
[34:35.140 --> 34:35.780]  P2P networks.
[34:37.040 --> 34:37.500]  Know-how.
[34:37.680 --> 34:41.320]  If you are the author, nobody knows more about your works than you.
[34:42.040 --> 34:42.480]  Innovation.
[34:42.700 --> 34:44.180]  You create, so you innovate.
[34:45.260 --> 34:45.700]  Service.
[34:46.020 --> 34:46.600]  Work for hire.
[34:46.860 --> 34:47.880]  We talked about that before.
[34:48.540 --> 34:50.260]  So the key point, the last point.
[34:50.700 --> 34:52.340]  Market the author.
[34:52.600 --> 34:53.580]  Not the work.
[34:54.240 --> 34:56.260]  You should sell the author.
[34:56.960 --> 34:57.820]  His time.
[34:58.000 --> 34:58.900]  His autographs.
[34:59.000 --> 34:59.800]  His interviews.
[35:00.040 --> 35:00.320]  His whatever.
[35:00.780 --> 35:01.920]  That's my proposition.
[35:02.380 --> 35:02.720]  Anyways.
[35:03.120 --> 35:05.440]  That leads us to hacking business.
[35:05.780 --> 35:07.220]  I am a hacker at heart.
[35:08.700 --> 35:10.120]  And not so much at heart.
[35:10.260 --> 35:11.100]  And also everyday.
[35:11.100 --> 35:15.260]  But why not applying hacking to business?
[35:16.000 --> 35:16.660]  Hack business.
[35:17.060 --> 35:18.160]  How do you hack businesses?
[35:19.900 --> 35:25.340]  Well, when I had to stop being a lecturer, I had to become something.
[35:26.200 --> 35:27.700]  So I became a business man.
[35:28.160 --> 35:29.020]  How do you do that?
[35:29.080 --> 35:29.440]  I don't know.
[35:29.440 --> 35:32.280]  I mean, I started business, but they don't teach you that in college.
[35:32.560 --> 35:35.040]  So I took the hacker approach.
[35:35.400 --> 35:36.180]  What's that approach?
[35:36.320 --> 35:37.440]  Well, you do research.
[35:38.340 --> 35:40.000]  Then you discover vulnerabilities.
[35:40.640 --> 35:41.340]  Market niches.
[35:41.520 --> 35:42.140]  You know, holes.
[35:42.720 --> 35:46.200]  You develop the exploits, which means you create a product.
[35:47.800 --> 35:48.740]  And you make money.
[35:49.200 --> 35:52.240]  Now what you got to do is, with that money you prove your point.
[35:52.420 --> 35:54.920]  And then you give the money back to the community.
[35:55.120 --> 35:56.160]  Or a percentage of it.
[35:56.540 --> 35:58.240]  That's what it's called the anarchist banker.
[35:58.420 --> 36:00.500]  My objective is to make a lot of money.
[36:00.700 --> 36:01.920]  To give that money back.
[36:02.140 --> 36:03.220]  To hack labs.
[36:03.380 --> 36:04.060]  Hack meetings.
[36:05.140 --> 36:06.960]  Poor authors and stuff like that.
[36:07.060 --> 36:10.540]  To prove the point that the system works if you hack it.
[36:11.520 --> 36:13.060]  So I've created a few businesses.
[36:14.100 --> 36:14.660]  Free software.
[36:14.940 --> 36:15.660]  Free music.
[36:16.060 --> 36:17.020]  Coming up soon.
[36:17.240 --> 36:18.300]  Free science research.
[36:18.740 --> 36:20.020]  And free publications.
[36:20.380 --> 36:21.300]  I write in a magazine.
[36:21.400 --> 36:23.000]  The magazine you can buy in the newsstands.
[36:23.060 --> 36:25.380]  Still, you can read it in my blog for free.
[36:25.660 --> 36:26.540]  And they pay me.
[36:26.720 --> 36:27.580]  And it's for free.
[36:27.760 --> 36:28.660]  And they pay me.
[36:28.800 --> 36:29.460]  And it works.
[36:29.920 --> 36:31.080]  So that's the key.
[36:32.600 --> 36:34.680]  Anyways, this is how I imagine the future.
[36:34.740 --> 36:35.500]  But I'll leave this for later.
[36:35.680 --> 36:39.000]  Because I want Alberto to talk about what can we do.
[36:39.440 --> 36:39.880]  Activism.
[36:39.880 --> 36:41.760]  So this is all the things that we can do.
[36:42.000 --> 36:42.960]  Gather information.
[36:43.180 --> 36:43.600]  Share it.
[36:43.800 --> 36:44.180]  Debate.
[36:44.460 --> 36:44.820]  Act.
[36:45.100 --> 36:46.440]  And act and I mean create.
[36:46.800 --> 36:47.260]  City crossing.
[36:47.400 --> 36:47.840]  Book crossing.
[36:48.000 --> 36:48.580]  Et cetera, et cetera.
[36:48.800 --> 36:50.720]  And at the end, if nothing works.
[36:51.040 --> 36:52.660]  If the world's still unfair.
[36:53.180 --> 36:54.600]  If everything sucks.
[36:54.840 --> 36:57.300]  If people are going to jail for things they should not.
[36:59.220 --> 36:59.660]  Boycott.
[37:00.000 --> 37:00.440]  Demonstrate.
[37:00.560 --> 37:00.920]  Resist.
[37:01.040 --> 37:01.460]  Disobey.
[37:01.620 --> 37:02.020]  Fight.
[37:02.420 --> 37:02.860]  Overthrow.
[37:03.100 --> 37:03.820]  I don't care.
[37:03.820 --> 37:07.160]  I don't know if these words can get me into jail in this country.
[37:07.400 --> 37:07.580]  Probably.
[37:07.900 --> 37:08.940]  I didn't say that.
[37:09.160 --> 37:10.020]  Can you rewind?
[37:10.520 --> 37:10.700]  Okay.
[37:11.000 --> 37:11.680]  Never mind.
[37:12.340 --> 37:12.780]  Overthrow.
[37:12.940 --> 37:13.580]  You know, revolution.
[37:13.720 --> 37:14.320]  It doesn't matter.
[37:14.580 --> 37:15.460]  But do something.
[37:15.740 --> 37:18.140]  So here's an example of what we're doing in Spain.
[37:24.690 --> 37:25.290]  Okay.
[37:25.700 --> 37:27.830]  First of all, my English sucks.
[37:28.200 --> 37:29.020]  It's awful.
[37:29.850 --> 37:35.100]  So if you don't understand me, you can laugh at what I write in.
[37:35.410 --> 37:37.480]  So it's up to you.
[37:38.670 --> 37:42.390]  First of all, we talk about royalties in Spain.
[37:43.040 --> 37:45.460]  Almost everybody is f*cked by royalties.
[37:45.580 --> 37:46.080]  Can I say f*ck?
[37:46.080 --> 37:46.120]  Okay.
[37:46.370 --> 37:46.700]  Okay.
[37:49.700 --> 37:53.680]  So who's f*ck by royalties?
[37:54.160 --> 37:55.410]  Computer shops.
[37:55.480 --> 38:00.060]  Computer shops have to pay royalties to this.
[38:00.160 --> 38:05.600]  This guy that is the Spanish association of authors and producers.
[38:06.980 --> 38:15.430]  Blank media manufacturers which do CDs or hard disks or tapes or anything has to pay also.
[38:15.430 --> 38:20.700]  So the final users have to pay also all of these royalties.
[38:20.950 --> 38:24.660]  The pricing of these royalties is bigger than the same media.
[38:24.870 --> 38:35.770]  If you pay like 15 cents for a blank CD, you are paying also like 25 or 26 royalties for this stupid thing.
[38:35.950 --> 38:42.160]  So you finally are paying like 40 cents for each CD you are buying on the market.
[38:43.540 --> 38:49.370]  Independent radio stations, any independent radio stations.
[38:49.560 --> 38:54.430]  Also, non-profit radio stations are paying royalties to this SGAE.
[38:55.020 --> 39:09.910]  And probably any owner of any type of public place that has any kind of music or TV broadcasting for your entertainment, like a pub, a bar, an office.
[39:10.270 --> 39:14.600]  So the music you hear in the office, in the... I don't know.
[39:15.060 --> 39:25.750]  Everything you can hear, anything you must pay for each thing that is producing music on your business.
[39:27.550 --> 39:30.660]  So almost everybody is f*cked by these royalties.
[39:30.910 --> 39:34.370]  So who is the one who is protected for this?
[39:34.560 --> 39:35.410]  The creators?
[39:35.890 --> 39:36.200]  No.
[39:36.600 --> 39:37.390]  Just a bunch of them.
[39:37.620 --> 39:44.520]  Because only the biggest sellers in Spain of CDs are the ones who get money from it.
[39:44.520 --> 39:56.810]  So only the people who are in this business selling millions of CDs or hundreds of thousands of CDs are the ones who get this money back.
[39:56.980 --> 40:06.620]  So every little producer, the one who are selling only 10,000, 20,000 CDs a year, they aren't getting any money.
[40:06.620 --> 40:13.810]  So what's the point of this royalties if only 100, 200 or 300 of people are getting all?
[40:14.450 --> 40:23.100]  Why upset 44 million people getting his money and then giving to 300 people?
[40:23.700 --> 40:25.540]  It's not for protecting also.
[40:26.960 --> 40:30.310]  So what are we doing in Spain?
[40:31.830 --> 40:37.410]  Not too much for my taste, of course, but they are divided on some groups.
[40:37.770 --> 40:42.660]  Not so much lobbies are in Spain because lobbies are for people that have money.
[40:45.600 --> 40:49.640]  And the people that have the money is the one who are getting the royalties.
[40:49.870 --> 40:52.000]  So they are bigger and better and stronger than us.
[40:52.450 --> 40:59.000]  So there are some pressure grabs like these names you can see in Spanish that I'll translate later.
[40:59.000 --> 41:03.830]  And some groups are working from Hacklabs on Spain.
[41:06.560 --> 41:07.480]  So I'll begin.
[41:08.500 --> 41:13.140]  This one, Partido Pirata, that is Pirate Paris, is from some examples.
[41:13.350 --> 41:18.150]  You have seen also in Europe, in Germany, Netherlands that are working on these things from politics.
[41:19.040 --> 41:23.000]  And so this is from three days ago.
[41:23.250 --> 41:24.250]  They began three days ago.
[41:24.430 --> 41:27.250]  They are not still a real political party.
[41:27.430 --> 41:28.450]  They are working on it.
[41:28.450 --> 41:30.960]  And they are following these things.
[41:31.140 --> 41:34.310]  They want the intellectual property law modificated.
[41:34.890 --> 41:38.930]  They want the Internet services law modificated also.
[41:39.270 --> 41:40.560]  That is very strong in Spain.
[41:42.010 --> 41:49.960]  Keeping records of each transaction, keeping data, and all these things about privacy.
[41:50.560 --> 41:54.040]  They want to cancel every blank media royalties.
[41:54.250 --> 41:58.560]  They want no software patents that you know that is still illegal in Europe.
[41:58.660 --> 41:59.910]  But they are doing it.
[42:00.060 --> 42:07.040]  There's a lot, a very big, a lot of patents about software in Europe.
[42:07.040 --> 42:12.160]  They want to force the government to use open formats only.
[42:12.830 --> 42:20.020]  They are actually using a lot of closed formats, like Microsoft and so on.
[42:20.120 --> 42:22.660]  They are forcing us to use them.
[42:23.200 --> 42:32.750]  And they are also concerning these privacy rights, easy Internet access for everyone, more, you know, things, and this net neutrality thing, you know.
[42:35.390 --> 42:39.790]  We have this compartires.net that is sharing is good.
[42:41.620 --> 42:50.750]  These people are more like not so hacker people.
[42:50.980 --> 42:58.460]  They are more like plain people for the average Joe and for trying to inform people what's going on.
[42:59.250 --> 43:04.810]  About creativity, intellectual property, sharing culture for...
[43:06.290 --> 43:09.180]  Saying people that sharing is legit and legal still.
[43:10.830 --> 43:14.870]  But anyway, sharing began to be prosecuted.
[43:17.560 --> 43:22.660]  What they did like two weeks ago or so is like...
[43:22.660 --> 43:27.120]  All these computer shops that have to pay all these royalties are so f*cked up.
[43:28.220 --> 43:34.720]  They also... they actually accepted to be sued by people.
[43:35.060 --> 43:38.600]  They began to sell CDs with these royalties to people.
[43:39.250 --> 43:42.560]  Give tickets of the sale to the people.
[43:43.080 --> 43:50.520]  And these are common... they sued these computer shops altogether.
[43:50.520 --> 43:58.520]  Like 30 or 40 people went to the... to the jews and gave the papers and...
[43:58.520 --> 44:05.980]  They accepted to be sued... trying to... to... to cancel all these royalties they are paying.
[44:09.020 --> 44:15.340]  AppMate is... a little association of computer and new technologies related enterprises.
[44:15.340 --> 44:21.080]  And work for defending of the... of all of these enterprises and...
[44:23.000 --> 44:25.000]  Promoting new technologies and so on.
[44:25.140 --> 44:25.880]  It's for non-profit.
[44:28.270 --> 44:29.600]  Todos contra el canon.
[44:29.800 --> 44:31.440]  This... everybody against royalties.
[44:32.800 --> 44:36.640]  It's... a little about... it's little the same.
[44:37.040 --> 44:37.800]  Compartir es bueno.
[44:37.800 --> 44:39.540]  It's like no royalties.
[44:39.720 --> 44:42.140]  Royalties proportional to the pricing that's...
[44:43.000 --> 44:44.480]  Now are not proportional.
[44:44.700 --> 44:46.940]  You're paying more for the royalties than for the blank media.
[44:47.100 --> 44:50.620]  That is... that is not... this is completely absurd.
[44:52.620 --> 44:56.800]  And... also not paying double, triple, or more... pays on multiple devices.
[44:57.620 --> 45:00.750]  So you are buying a CD recorder and you're paying a royalty.
[45:01.020 --> 45:02.250]  You're buying blank media.
[45:02.320 --> 45:03.400]  You're paying royalty.
[45:03.620 --> 45:04.960]  You're buying the computer.
[45:04.960 --> 45:06.160]  You're paying royalty.
[45:06.400 --> 45:09.540]  So you're paying three, four, six times this royalty.
[45:11.100 --> 45:17.400]  And... exempt non-profit companies that are using this blank media for no copyright needs.
[45:17.640 --> 45:20.980]  And so... because there is no exempt on this law.
[45:21.250 --> 45:23.480]  So everybody is paying these royalties.
[45:25.440 --> 45:29.290]  Uh... not... not that they are using for non-profit users.
[45:29.290 --> 45:33.250]  Or... they are using their... they are copying their own works.
[45:33.460 --> 45:38.220]  And anyway are paying the royalties for people that's... has nothing to do about it.
[45:39.880 --> 45:44.340]  And they say also that all these royalties must be collected by government.
[45:44.660 --> 45:48.270]  Because now it's collected by a private... by private people.
[45:48.460 --> 45:53.120]  And are not... nobody knows what they do with it.
[45:56.040 --> 45:59.000]  Uh... and... this last thing is Rompamos el silencio.
[45:59.160 --> 46:00.220]  That's Let's Break the Silence.
[46:00.680 --> 46:05.500]  It's... more hardcore people that... did... during a week...
[46:05.500 --> 46:09.600]  some... work with a lot of issues with the government.
[46:09.980 --> 46:12.380]  About education, free culture, social control...
[46:12.380 --> 46:15.390]  gender, feminines, globalisation...
[46:16.120 --> 46:18.160]  city planning, immigration, squaring...
[46:18.160 --> 46:20.580]  anti-fast themes, minors... and a lot of things.
[46:21.160 --> 46:24.250]  And... they go... they went and...
[46:24.250 --> 46:26.560]  invaded the... uh...
[46:26.560 --> 46:30.160]  National Association of Authors with these masks.
[46:31.020 --> 46:34.180]  The... this... the photo in the mask is about one of the heads of the association.
[46:34.840 --> 46:38.540]  Went in... invaded the place... uh...
[46:38.540 --> 46:40.500]  uh... did a big mess... uh...
[46:40.500 --> 46:47.040]  and... uh... threw a lot of... sent... uh... coins... uh...
[46:47.040 --> 46:50.880]  and... stick them... put papers... and... uh...
[46:51.120 --> 46:53.540]  uh... later they changed... uh...
[46:53.540 --> 46:55.800]  defaced the... the wall of the place.
[46:56.200 --> 46:56.980]  This is the name.
[46:57.080 --> 46:57.750]  This is SGAE.
[46:57.920 --> 47:01.820]  It means... uh... General Association of Authors of Spain and so.
[47:02.000 --> 47:03.880]  And they changed it by...
[47:03.880 --> 47:05.520]  we everybody... we... we...
[47:05.520 --> 47:08.440]  we always... win some euros.
[47:09.340 --> 47:11.270]  That is the same letters acronym.
[47:11.540 --> 47:11.770]  Okay.
[47:13.180 --> 47:13.700]  Um...
[47:13.700 --> 47:15.600]  That's more or less the work we are doing now.
[47:16.060 --> 47:16.580]  And...
[47:16.580 --> 47:17.340]  in different groups.
[47:17.460 --> 47:19.060]  I'm not in all the groups.
[47:19.320 --> 47:20.300]  Some work...
[47:20.300 --> 47:21.660]  I like some of the works.
[47:21.820 --> 47:22.600]  Not all.
[47:23.660 --> 47:24.080]  But...
[47:24.680 --> 47:26.160]  that's more or less...
[47:26.160 --> 47:26.920]  how...
[47:26.920 --> 47:28.200]  are we working and where...
[47:28.200 --> 47:29.920]  where are we...
[47:29.920 --> 47:30.860]  pressing the...
[47:30.860 --> 47:31.300]  the people.
[47:33.000 --> 47:33.520]  Okay.
[47:33.750 --> 47:34.400]  And now...
[47:34.400 --> 47:34.940]  um...
[47:34.940 --> 47:36.340]  we have a few minutes for questions.
[47:36.940 --> 47:37.340]  Uh...
[47:37.340 --> 47:37.920]  and here...
[47:37.920 --> 47:39.580]  before we start with the questions...
[47:39.580 --> 47:39.660]  um...
[47:39.660 --> 47:40.020]  two things.
[47:40.200 --> 47:41.940]  We'll be out there as long as you guys want.
[47:42.120 --> 47:44.180]  So we can keep this debate going as long as you want.
[47:44.820 --> 47:45.220]  Here...
[47:45.220 --> 47:46.250]  you got our websites.
[47:46.680 --> 47:46.920]  Uh...
[47:46.920 --> 47:47.620]  the one that says...
[47:47.620 --> 47:47.900]  Jorge...
[47:47.900 --> 47:48.750]  it's me.
[47:49.080 --> 47:50.460]  The other one is...
[47:50.460 --> 47:51.060]  is...
[47:51.600 --> 47:52.000]  alvaros...
[47:52.000 --> 47:52.680]  narcotides.com.
[47:53.140 --> 47:53.820]  You got our emails.
[47:54.120 --> 47:55.520]  And on my website...
[47:55.520 --> 47:56.750]  on my blog actually...
[47:56.750 --> 47:56.920]  on the...
[47:56.920 --> 47:58.320]  on the column on the right...
[47:58.320 --> 47:59.340]  the first link...
[47:59.340 --> 48:00.640]  it says...
[48:00.640 --> 48:01.290]  La Libertad...
[48:01.290 --> 48:02.000]  Giveaway Freedom.
[48:02.770 --> 48:03.600]  You've got...
[48:03.600 --> 48:04.720]  that page...
[48:04.720 --> 48:05.520]  collects...
[48:05.520 --> 48:06.270]  links...
[48:06.270 --> 48:07.290]  to sites...
[48:07.290 --> 48:08.440]  to download music for free...
[48:08.440 --> 48:09.080]  legally...
[48:09.080 --> 48:10.480]  whether they are public domain...
[48:10.480 --> 48:11.480]  Creative Commons...
[48:11.480 --> 48:11.560]  or...
[48:11.560 --> 48:12.340]  or whatever.
[48:12.750 --> 48:15.120]  You got over 1 million songs to download there.
[48:15.300 --> 48:15.800]  So...
[48:15.800 --> 48:17.560]  if you ever buy a CD again...
[48:17.560 --> 48:18.220]  it's because...
[48:18.220 --> 48:19.700]  you have way too much spare time.
[48:20.420 --> 48:20.980]  So...
[48:21.640 --> 48:22.080]  now...
[48:22.660 --> 48:23.220]  questions...
[48:23.220 --> 48:23.360]  debate...
[48:23.360 --> 48:23.800]  whatever you want.
[48:30.090 --> 48:30.650]  Hi.
[48:30.870 --> 48:31.650]  Is this working?
[48:32.230 --> 48:32.790]  No.
[48:33.110 --> 48:33.390]  Okay.
[48:35.890 --> 48:37.290]  When I've...
[48:37.290 --> 48:37.710]  argued...
[48:37.710 --> 48:39.590]  before a large group of people...
[48:39.590 --> 48:41.830]  that intellectual property...
[48:41.830 --> 48:42.390]  is illegitimate...
[48:43.370 --> 48:44.010]  and then...
[48:44.010 --> 48:44.830]  taken a debate...
[48:44.830 --> 48:45.430]  and had...
[48:45.430 --> 48:46.210]  counter arguments...
[48:46.210 --> 48:47.810]  I've found that they...
[48:47.810 --> 48:48.660]  almost all...
[48:48.930 --> 48:49.930]  boiled down to...
[48:49.930 --> 48:51.090]  the issue of the...
[48:51.090 --> 48:51.470]  so-called...
[48:51.470 --> 48:52.710]  free rider problem...
[48:52.710 --> 48:53.190]  that...
[48:53.190 --> 48:53.830]  well...
[48:53.830 --> 48:55.050]  why should I create anything...
[48:55.050 --> 48:55.590]  if then...
[48:55.590 --> 48:57.150]  somebody's just gonna copy it...
[48:57.150 --> 48:58.010]  whereas...
[49:00.610 --> 49:02.270]  that there's no...
[49:02.270 --> 49:03.290]  incentive, I guess...
[49:05.550 --> 49:07.130]  how have you...
[49:07.130 --> 49:08.710]  successfully communicated...
[49:08.710 --> 49:09.550]  that the free rider problem...
[49:09.970 --> 49:10.510]  is...
[49:10.510 --> 49:11.370]  not a problem...
[49:11.370 --> 49:12.270]  that...
[49:12.270 --> 49:13.650]  people...
[49:13.650 --> 49:14.390]  invest...
[49:14.390 --> 49:14.770]  in...
[49:14.770 --> 49:15.370]  what makes sense...
[49:15.370 --> 49:16.350]  without being...
[49:17.090 --> 49:17.470]  guaranteed...
[49:17.470 --> 49:18.570]  or entitled...
[49:18.570 --> 49:19.050]  to...
[49:19.050 --> 49:20.350]  a particular profit...
[49:20.350 --> 49:21.310]  or return on investment.
[49:21.310 --> 49:22.070]  yeah...
[49:22.070 --> 49:22.710]  um...
[49:22.710 --> 49:23.990]  give them examples...
[49:23.990 --> 49:24.950]  that's what works...
[49:24.950 --> 49:25.750]  tell them about...
[49:25.750 --> 49:26.650]  Cory Doctorow...
[49:26.650 --> 49:27.570]  by the way...
[49:28.160 --> 49:29.190]  great guy...
[49:29.190 --> 49:30.150]  great author...
[49:30.150 --> 49:31.330]  great writer...
[49:31.330 --> 49:31.830]  um...
[49:31.830 --> 49:33.530]  his books are for free...
[49:33.530 --> 49:34.810]  downloadable from the net...
[49:34.810 --> 49:35.830]  and he makes a lot of money...
[49:35.830 --> 49:36.090]  well...
[49:36.090 --> 49:36.590]  he makes money...
[49:36.590 --> 49:37.130]  he makes a living...
[49:37.130 --> 49:37.910]  I don't know how much...
[49:37.910 --> 49:38.930]  I'm not gonna say a lot...
[49:38.930 --> 49:40.170]  but probably he does...
[49:40.170 --> 49:40.890]  selling them...
[49:40.890 --> 49:41.770]  they're best sellers...
[49:41.770 --> 49:42.790]  science fiction...
[49:42.790 --> 49:43.210]  so...
[49:43.710 --> 49:44.510]  the problem is...
[49:44.510 --> 49:45.590]  business model...
[49:45.590 --> 49:46.490]  not the law...
[49:46.490 --> 49:47.090]  I mean...
[49:47.090 --> 49:48.110]  I write...
[49:48.110 --> 49:49.670]  I put my articles...
[49:49.670 --> 49:51.230]  for free on the website...
[49:51.230 --> 49:52.190]  and I get paid...
[49:52.190 --> 49:52.770]  for putting them...
[49:52.770 --> 49:53.930]  on the magazine which...
[49:53.930 --> 49:55.030]  a copyright...
[49:55.030 --> 49:55.910]  and they're for free...
[49:55.910 --> 49:56.650]  on my website...
[49:56.650 --> 49:56.970]  so...
[49:56.970 --> 49:57.310]  I mean...
[49:57.310 --> 49:59.730]  you don't need a lot...
[50:00.270 --> 50:01.990]  a new business model...
[50:01.990 --> 50:03.470]  that accepts alternatives...
[50:03.470 --> 50:04.210]  and then...
[50:04.210 --> 50:12.550]  A twist to what you say is, many authors are conditioned to, this is mine, this is mine, this is mine, if somebody takes it away and makes money, that's what bugs them.
[50:12.690 --> 50:14.450]  I mean, fine, post it everywhere, but for free.
[50:14.630 --> 50:15.390]  Don't make money out of it.
[50:15.570 --> 50:15.990]  Why not?
[50:16.290 --> 50:19.810]  I mean, they are doing you a service, a favor.
[50:20.110 --> 50:23.350]  They're promoting your job, something you have not done.
[50:23.650 --> 50:26.230]  I mean, if you wanted to publish that and make money, do it.
[50:26.390 --> 50:27.950]  If you haven't done it, let them do it.
[50:28.330 --> 50:29.930]  So, I mean, the problem is not the law.
[50:30.010 --> 50:33.430]  The problem is showing them examples that it can be done.
[50:33.430 --> 50:34.870]  And it's being done and it works.
[50:35.250 --> 50:36.410]  So, that's the key.
[50:37.250 --> 50:44.130]  To further that, can you give us some examples that aren't necessarily about novelty?
[50:44.430 --> 50:54.950]  I think people tend to write off books or free music as, oh, well, you know, they're buying it because they like the idea of having a copy of it or something.
[50:55.050 --> 51:02.750]  But if it came down to something important like drugs or business software or something, that wouldn't necessarily be the case.
[51:02.750 --> 51:05.830]  Are there solid examples of...
[51:05.830 --> 51:10.450]  Well, I've got over 120 examples in one of my previous lectures, the five-hour ones.
[51:10.790 --> 51:13.930]  So, you'll find them on my website and I couldn't give you a list.
[51:14.050 --> 51:14.130]  Okay.
[51:14.130 --> 51:15.690]  But if you're interested, I can give you a list.
[51:15.790 --> 51:17.070]  I can post it again if you want.
[51:17.430 --> 51:17.630]  Okay.
[51:17.770 --> 51:17.970]  Thanks.
[51:18.090 --> 51:18.270]  Thanks.
[51:20.370 --> 51:22.410]  First off, thank you very much for the speech.
[51:22.590 --> 51:24.910]  Your idea of intellectual property are...
[51:24.910 --> 51:26.970]  Well, I completely agree with them and they're bang on.
[51:27.110 --> 51:29.090]  They're clear, they're concise, and they're great.
[51:29.210 --> 51:32.470]  But there are a couple of points that I don't fully understand about your view.
[51:33.250 --> 51:36.710]  First off is you said that the GPL is a limitation.
[51:37.830 --> 51:45.650]  If you think about it, it seems that the GPL actually lets you keep your freedom to keep that software source open and free.
[51:45.650 --> 51:48.810]  How do you think that it's actually...
[51:48.810 --> 51:49.490]  Because I don't...
[51:49.490 --> 51:49.810]  Okay.
[51:50.030 --> 51:51.130]  This is my point.
[51:51.330 --> 51:55.710]  First of all, I really like Stallman.
[51:55.830 --> 51:56.770]  I really like the GPL.
[51:56.970 --> 51:59.370]  I really like the open source and free software movements.
[51:59.430 --> 51:59.650]  Okay?
[51:59.790 --> 52:00.690]  I really love them.
[52:01.990 --> 52:04.070]  But they're working within the system.
[52:04.610 --> 52:05.590]  And that's the difference.
[52:05.830 --> 52:07.710]  I want to destroy the system.
[52:09.510 --> 52:10.290]  Don't we all?
[52:10.510 --> 52:10.950]  So...
[52:13.710 --> 52:15.630]  And the reason I'm saying that is because...
[52:15.650 --> 52:23.450]  Because the system, a new system, a better system, a more direct system will work without the system right now in place.
[52:23.650 --> 52:24.530]  So that's the difference.
[52:24.970 --> 52:26.530]  GPL is great, but it's working within the system.
[52:26.690 --> 52:27.790]  It needs the copyright to work.
[52:28.230 --> 52:30.570]  So what I need is the copyright laws to go down.
[52:30.850 --> 52:31.390]  So that's the difference.
[52:31.390 --> 52:33.830]  You were talking all the time about...
[52:33.830 --> 52:36.070]  You say that you don't want copyright.
[52:36.930 --> 52:40.390]  But you say that the magazine has a copyright.
[52:41.070 --> 52:42.310]  So there is copyright.
[52:42.410 --> 52:50.830]  Well, the point is, they send out to all authors in the magazine a contract saying, you've got to sign it, and all your words will be copyrighted, and you are giving us exclusive.
[52:51.170 --> 52:53.470]  And I say, hey, you can kick me out, but I will not sign this.
[52:53.470 --> 52:54.490]  And they say, it's fine with us.
[52:54.890 --> 52:58.190]  So the thing is, I cannot change the whole magazine.
[52:58.470 --> 53:00.070]  I can prove with my example.
[53:00.250 --> 53:03.590]  I can publish a new magazine, but I cannot change the magazine that publishes my articles.
[53:03.890 --> 53:07.150]  It's the most widely distributed computer magazine in the country.
[53:07.510 --> 53:16.270]  So I think it's worth it to be there, even if it's with their copyright, but as long as you can get my text, my article for free from my site.
[53:16.270 --> 53:21.810]  So, I mean, one thing is to, in theory, in philosophy, try to bring down the system.
[53:21.970 --> 53:24.650]  And the other thing is doing it really physically.
[53:24.670 --> 53:25.830]  It takes steps.
[53:26.070 --> 53:27.310]  So it takes the GPL.
[53:27.470 --> 53:28.510]  It takes Creative Commons.
[53:28.730 --> 53:31.390]  So it takes working in a copyrighted magazine.
[53:31.730 --> 53:33.630]  And you need those steps.
[53:33.770 --> 53:34.910]  But here I'm talking philosophy.
[53:35.210 --> 53:35.650]  Philosophy?
[53:35.950 --> 53:36.230]  Theory?
[53:36.490 --> 53:37.530]  Just jump ahead, you know?
[53:37.830 --> 53:38.230]  Sorry.
[53:38.410 --> 53:39.250]  Your second question?
[53:39.470 --> 53:41.310]  Yeah, that actually leads right into my second question.
[53:41.310 --> 53:47.330]  Are all your ideas based on a society revolved not with capitalism but with something else?
[53:47.550 --> 53:51.430]  I mean, if so, doesn't that take the strength out of your ideas?
[53:51.550 --> 53:57.130]  Because how are we supposed to tell people copyright is shit if we're saying get rid of the entire system of capitalism?
[53:57.430 --> 54:00.870]  No, no, I'm not saying to get rid of the entire system of capitalism, although we can argue that.
[54:01.770 --> 54:04.130]  I'm saying get rid of copyright laws.
[54:04.690 --> 54:05.650]  I'm making money.
[54:05.930 --> 54:06.710]  That's what I'm saying.
[54:06.710 --> 54:11.690]  I'm making money out of my creations for free on the side.
[54:11.910 --> 54:15.930]  I'm making money out of free software that people that I hire create.
[54:16.210 --> 54:18.010]  We put them out for free.
[54:18.310 --> 54:19.690]  And then some people pay us.
[54:19.890 --> 54:22.570]  So, you know, I'm not saying go against capitalism.
[54:22.890 --> 54:23.730]  We can talk about that.
[54:23.830 --> 54:25.170]  But we're talking about copyright.
[54:25.410 --> 54:27.030]  I'm not saying get rid of copyright.
[54:27.230 --> 54:27.810]  It's not the same.
[54:28.090 --> 54:29.210]  It's like free software.
[54:29.450 --> 54:30.870]  It's free as in freedom, not as in...
[54:30.870 --> 54:31.570]  Yes.
[54:32.070 --> 54:32.950]  And for the third question...
[54:32.950 --> 54:33.950]  I've been told to stop.
[54:33.950 --> 54:37.070]  So, all of you in line, we can talk in the corridor.
[54:37.470 --> 54:37.830]  Okay?
[54:38.070 --> 54:39.890]  But since you were talking, do you want to finish?
[54:41.410 --> 54:42.910]  Well, do you have time or...?
[54:42.910 --> 54:44.330]  I've been told to stop.
[54:44.450 --> 54:44.930]  I'm sorry.
[54:45.090 --> 54:46.070]  So, I'll be out there.
[54:46.310 --> 54:47.450]  And thank you guys very much.
[54:47.650 --> 54:48.790]  And be able to go online.