[00:00.600 --> 00:03.420] All right, welcome to the second day of The Last HOPE. [00:04.680 --> 00:05.880] Pretty crowded room. [00:09.780 --> 00:14.200] I have to say I'm impressed, because I know a lot of people are hungover at this point. [00:14.900 --> 00:17.400] But this is definitely going to be a good discussion. [00:17.570 --> 00:20.460] Bernie's going to give the introduction, because he knows more about it than I do. [00:20.640 --> 00:21.200] Bernie S. [00:28.440 --> 00:29.080] Good morning. [00:29.360 --> 00:30.360] Thanks for getting up so early. [00:31.140 --> 00:41.700] I just want to introduce Marty Kaiser, who is probably one of the most, if not the most, legendary experts, in electronic surveillance and counter-surveillance in the United States, maybe the world. [00:41.960 --> 00:59.120] And I've known about Marty for years, and I happened to meet him last year, and I invited him to this conference, and he was gracious enough to come and talk about his career and his experiences in the field of TSCM, Technical Security Countermeasures. [00:59.360 --> 01:00.940] So, here's Marty. [01:08.470 --> 01:09.190] Thank you. [01:10.190 --> 01:11.290] Are we live now? [01:11.290 --> 01:15.290] I want to thank the HOPE group for having me, and Ed, for inviting me. [01:15.470 --> 01:17.810] It's always a pleasure to appear before groups. [01:18.170 --> 01:19.130] I enjoy it. [01:19.210 --> 01:20.370] It gets me out of my little shop. [01:21.550 --> 01:24.710] My company consists of myself and a part-time worker. [01:25.030 --> 01:27.050] At one time, I had as many as seven people. [01:27.270 --> 01:30.650] But right now, we're just humming along very, very small. [01:33.470 --> 01:39.370] But the whole story of my life is in my autobiography, and I brought a few copies of that along. [01:39.370 --> 01:44.810] But I wanted to cover a few points that may be of interest to you. [01:46.230 --> 01:50.930] I started my business in 1965, doing industrial service. [01:51.090 --> 01:56.390] I did all the steel mills, plastic companies, breweries, every kind of industry in Baltimore. [01:56.750 --> 02:01.990] And I have this ability to walk in and look at PC equipment, understand the PC board. [02:05.930 --> 02:06.970] I suppose... [02:06.970 --> 02:09.030] Actually, if you sit down... [02:09.030 --> 02:09.750] This will go mic better. [02:09.890 --> 02:10.370] I'm better standing up. [02:10.730 --> 02:12.170] Yeah, I'm better standing up. [02:12.270 --> 02:12.850] We can do it. [02:12.970 --> 02:13.290] Hold on. [02:14.830 --> 02:15.810] It's going to go higher? [02:16.390 --> 02:16.710] Nope. [02:16.830 --> 02:18.690] That's the highest it's going to go, but it's going to go higher. [02:28.790 --> 02:29.430] Marty Kaiser. [02:29.430 --> 02:30.550] Is this guy a hacker, or what? [02:33.830 --> 02:40.410] So, I was doing American Brewery in Baltimore, and it was a very small contract brewery. [02:40.510 --> 02:45.630] It had the last of the ammonia compressors left in the United States, which was a work of art. [02:45.750 --> 02:54.310] It looked like a German cuckoo clock when you walked in, and everything was pinstripe, and all the gauges on the wall had birdhouses around them, and it was a very pleasant place. [02:54.310 --> 03:01.310] But I always got there early in the morning when they opened the valves to cool down all the pipes, and the beer would run on the floor. [03:01.970 --> 03:08.010] Well, no self-respecting man would let that happen, so everybody had their own mug, and we just drank as fast as we could. [03:08.650 --> 03:13.030] So, I repaired my favorite beer foamer machine. [03:13.510 --> 03:25.790] That became a second home to me, because I'd take the cover off the beer foamer, and all these cockroaches would run out and look at me, and I'd say, get over there, and they'd run over there, and then when I was ready to put it back on, I'd bang it with a wrench, [03:25.850 --> 03:27.830] and it'd all come sailing back into the machine. [03:28.230 --> 03:31.290] So, it was kind of a neat experience. [03:31.850 --> 03:42.090] So, I was totally plastered one morning, and I left there, and I got lost in Baltimore, and I was driving around Dundalk, and I saw this sign that said, U.S. [03:42.350 --> 03:43.930] Army Intelligence, Fort Hall of Bird, Maryland. [03:44.750 --> 03:47.030] I thought, well, they have to have something broken in there. [03:50.670 --> 03:51.670] And that's a good one. [03:52.750 --> 03:53.650] I've got to remember that. [03:53.890 --> 04:07.350] So, anyhow, I happened to knock on the right door, which was a supply building, and told him I was a fix-it guy, and he eventually handed me this big box of receivers and bugging equipment to repair, and I repaired them. [04:07.510 --> 04:14.070] And each piece of equipment had a price allocation tag on it, and I just happened to note it. [04:14.070 --> 04:20.050] But the main thing was that they were primarily using commercial equipment to do their intelligence gathering. [04:20.490 --> 04:29.290] Commercially available carrier, current transmitters, commercially available radios, receivers, commercially available mini-transmitters, bugs and stuff. [04:29.850 --> 04:46.790] So, I made a proposal to manufacture exactly what they needed for their purpose, and the first product that came out of it was a high-quality audio amplifier, which I call my 1059 amplifier. [04:47.730 --> 04:50.230] And this is typical of the kind of... [04:50.230 --> 04:51.650] You said it can't work. [04:51.730 --> 04:52.350] Oh, okay. [04:55.850 --> 04:57.270] It's going to be upside down, sir. [04:57.410 --> 04:58.010] Oh, okay. [04:58.470 --> 04:59.430] Oh, whatever. [04:59.910 --> 05:02.070] So, anyhow, that's typical of the kind of work I do. [05:04.390 --> 05:09.350] Even though the PC board has changed over the years, the circuit has remained constant. [05:09.610 --> 05:13.490] And I've held it firm at that because it's good. [05:13.830 --> 05:17.510] The only thing I've changed is the input transistor. [05:17.810 --> 05:23.510] I've changed it from a PNP to a FET in order to lower the noise figure. [05:23.510 --> 05:25.910] So, that was the first one. [05:26.070 --> 05:32.250] And then, that was followed very quickly by a series of bugging devices. [05:32.550 --> 05:39.910] And I brought a whole stack of photographs of products I've made over the years because this was in the days before digital cameras. [05:39.910 --> 05:42.330] So, we put everything on 8x10 photos. [05:43.230 --> 05:53.190] But I had roughly 100 different bugging devices I made, from quick drop transmitters to AC outlets to everything you can possibly imagine. [05:55.430 --> 05:58.810] But I thought, well, we'd better have a detector for all these things. [05:58.850 --> 06:01.190] So, I whipped out this 2050. [06:01.750 --> 06:04.850] And this was the first product I made for the FBI, actually. [06:05.370 --> 06:07.110] We're talking 1967. [06:08.650 --> 06:08.730] Oh! [06:10.330 --> 06:10.850] Okay. [06:11.350 --> 06:12.790] Again, let's see. [06:12.990 --> 06:13.610] Upside down. [06:15.230 --> 06:15.750] Sideways. [06:18.150 --> 06:18.950] There it is. [06:19.390 --> 06:20.470] It's just... [06:21.970 --> 06:22.490] Okay. [06:23.090 --> 06:25.010] Just a good RF detector. [06:25.490 --> 06:28.430] And it's been widely copied over the years. [06:28.430 --> 06:31.870] But there's still no form of modulation that can get by it. [06:31.950 --> 06:40.910] So, I've stayed with the basic technology, adding a few little pieces as the electronic synergy moved on. [06:41.010 --> 06:43.550] I couldn't get the type of meters I wanted anymore. [06:43.550 --> 06:45.110] I couldn't get the transistors anymore. [06:45.110 --> 06:47.270] So, I've changed a few things inside. [06:47.490 --> 06:49.290] But I still make them very popular. [06:51.110 --> 06:57.270] So, that moved on into a product called a telephone analyzer. [06:57.730 --> 07:01.410] And let me see if I can find that on the screen here. [07:02.470 --> 07:03.010] Let's see. [07:03.210 --> 07:03.410] Whoops. [07:03.690 --> 07:04.430] I've done it now. [07:05.410 --> 07:06.150] What do I do? [07:07.230 --> 07:08.790] I've lost my screen, Ed. [07:09.130 --> 07:10.370] How do I get my screen back? [07:13.710 --> 07:14.390] Okay. [07:14.590 --> 07:14.890] There we go. [07:15.190 --> 07:15.990] Now we want to go down. [07:20.480 --> 07:21.160] 1080. [07:33.180 --> 07:34.140] There you go. [07:35.400 --> 07:35.540] Okay. [07:36.900 --> 07:37.660] Let's see. [07:37.800 --> 07:40.080] I think we can... [07:43.580 --> 07:45.880] This is a hard bounce to move. [07:53.880 --> 08:00.200] So, you have to visualize an industry that had no ending and no beginning. [08:00.200 --> 08:01.420] At that point in time. [08:01.860 --> 08:06.960] Going from commercial to product manufacturers specifically for what they wanted. [08:08.160 --> 08:10.940] They had been using a thing called a wire analyzer. [08:11.020 --> 08:14.340] And I think it was made by Vector Industries for testing telephones. [08:14.520 --> 08:17.980] And I said, well, why don't I make a telephone analyzer for you? [08:18.300 --> 08:20.380] So, this product came out. [08:20.580 --> 08:25.360] And basically, it allows you to measure every single parameter in a telephone. [08:25.860 --> 08:29.900] Now, bear in mind, when this was designed, telephones were rotary telephones. [08:31.040 --> 08:38.400] Eventually, Touch-Tones came along and I added some circuitry to compensate for the dial tones and detection of dial tones. [08:38.560 --> 08:40.400] But it still remained basically the same. [08:42.740 --> 08:48.920] This was the start of one of two... actually, one of three adventures. [08:49.240 --> 08:51.060] And I want to go into that. [08:51.980 --> 08:56.080] Bear in mind, we're looking at 1969, 70, 71. [08:56.640 --> 08:59.400] Vietnam War is winding up, winding down. [08:59.700 --> 09:01.460] Racial strike is a problem. [09:01.460 --> 09:06.240] So, there are a lot of things going on and products were being developed. [09:06.520 --> 09:12.500] But as more and more people retired from these various agencies, that's when my problem basically started. [09:13.420 --> 09:14.320] The first... [09:14.320 --> 09:14.780] Excuse me, Marty. [09:15.100 --> 09:16.960] We're going to put a lapel mic on you. [09:17.380 --> 09:17.600] Ah. [09:17.600 --> 09:18.460] Uh-oh. [09:19.420 --> 09:20.100] It's in your pocket. [09:21.220 --> 09:21.300] It's in your pocket. [09:22.020 --> 09:23.260] And... let's see here. [09:23.500 --> 09:23.860] Any more? [09:25.880 --> 09:26.800] It's right there. [09:27.360 --> 09:27.680] Okay. [09:29.140 --> 09:31.680] Now, I've got to see if it's working. [09:33.220 --> 09:35.080] You got my handy-dandy bug detector. [09:38.940 --> 09:39.380] Okay. [09:39.580 --> 09:40.640] You have any yet out there? [09:40.860 --> 09:41.620] Testing, testing. [09:41.760 --> 09:42.220] There I am. [09:42.380 --> 09:42.620] Okay. [09:42.740 --> 09:43.160] Much better. [09:45.620 --> 09:55.380] So, when all of this started, I was, quote, invited into the technical portion of the intelligence community. [09:55.380 --> 10:00.900] You had intelligence community develop an office, IMDO, IMDASO or IMDO. [10:01.580 --> 10:04.080] You had the deception guys. [10:04.340 --> 10:05.300] They were a different bunch. [10:06.240 --> 10:07.560] So, you had all kinds of groups. [10:07.600 --> 10:08.420] So, I was invited in. [10:08.480 --> 10:09.800] And they said, well, this is our problem. [10:10.060 --> 10:11.420] And what can you do about it? [10:11.460 --> 10:13.300] So, I came up with all these products. [10:13.960 --> 10:19.220] The second meeting I wasn't invited to for a variety of reasons. [10:19.520 --> 10:24.040] The most... the biggest of which was these people were retiring from the intelligence community. [10:24.040 --> 10:27.260] And they were... they wanted the profit from the industry. [10:27.660 --> 10:32.360] So, the first one of my products that was stolen, it was the 1059. [10:32.900 --> 10:37.840] And that was duplicated by a company called Dektor Counterintelligence. [10:38.120 --> 10:39.680] And this was their product. [10:39.680 --> 10:41.840] So, they drove me out of the market... [10:41.840 --> 10:42.620] Okay. [10:42.860 --> 10:47.660] They drove me out of that marketplace with that product because they were one of the good old boys system. [10:47.680 --> 10:48.640] I was not. [10:48.800 --> 10:49.940] So, that was that. [10:51.960 --> 10:54.040] They ran with it for quite a while. [10:54.740 --> 10:56.240] They probably sold millions of them. [10:56.280 --> 10:58.520] I haven't sold anywhere near that number of my products. [10:59.240 --> 11:10.380] But, as people... it's kind of strange because as people retire from these various intelligence agencies, where they have access to that, the first thing they do is buy my countermeasure amplifier. [11:10.380 --> 11:14.040] So, they know which one is the standard of the industry. [11:21.320 --> 11:22.840] I heard something. [11:24.500 --> 11:30.060] So, as I say, we had the Vietnam War building up and building down. [11:30.200 --> 11:31.240] We had racial strife. [11:31.240 --> 11:35.080] And I was teaching at Fort Hollibert eventually. [11:35.640 --> 11:40.320] And people were being brought in from state and local governments to train there. [11:40.580 --> 11:42.980] And I learned that several of them were bomb technicians. [11:43.360 --> 11:45.740] In particular, Larry Linville from the Metro PD. [11:46.320 --> 11:50.460] And Larry and I sat down one day and talked about the problems that the bomb people have. [11:50.460 --> 11:55.440] And I decided that he needed a slightly different version of the 1059. [11:55.780 --> 12:00.400] And I developed a thing called the 2049, which is a stethoscope with automatic gain control. [12:00.820 --> 12:04.900] That whole bomb business has gone off on its own. [12:05.060 --> 12:06.960] I've developed many stethoscopes. [12:07.840 --> 12:10.540] This stethoscope here is an ultrasonic stethoscope. [12:10.540 --> 12:18.940] And it was designed right after the Beirut barracks bombing, which is used in a gas-enhanced bomb, where they use a type of propane to blow people up. [12:19.520 --> 12:25.360] Oddly enough, a couple of those bombs showed up at the Columbine disaster. [12:26.040 --> 12:28.480] Fortunately, they didn't have time to detonate the two of them. [12:28.560 --> 12:32.160] But they were tanks of propane with an explosive charge on top. [12:32.560 --> 12:36.240] Leaked the propane out, filed the explosive, and bang. [12:37.160 --> 12:44.000] So anyhow, that connected me with the bomb people in the country. [12:44.260 --> 12:46.420] And I dealt with New York City bomb squad. [12:46.540 --> 12:48.400] I dealt with every bomb squad in the world, practically. [12:50.980 --> 12:55.340] Things were going along just fine in the manufacturing business. [12:55.980 --> 13:06.240] This product, the telephone analyzer that I showed you just a while ago, the follow-up from that was appropriated by FG Mason Company. [13:06.420 --> 13:07.420] They made a copy of it. [13:07.420 --> 13:13.320] And then Dektor, this company that duplicated the audio amplifier, made their version of it. [13:14.060 --> 13:16.420] That was followed by a CIA product. [13:17.240 --> 13:19.200] Let me show you the CIA copy of it. [13:19.200 --> 13:20.440] And you'll see the similarity immediately. [13:23.300 --> 13:26.900] It was flattering that nobody made any changes in the design. [13:27.040 --> 13:28.180] They just stole it outright. [13:29.860 --> 13:31.240] I was going to tell you... [13:31.240 --> 13:32.320] Can you do this for me? [13:32.380 --> 13:33.260] My hands aren't that steady. [13:33.480 --> 13:35.060] I want to get that screen back. [13:36.120 --> 13:36.520] Okay. [13:37.200 --> 13:38.340] I'll go down to COOKE. [13:38.500 --> 13:39.700] C-O-O-K-E. [13:43.620 --> 13:45.160] C-O-O-K-E. [13:45.280 --> 13:45.920] It's right down there. [13:46.060 --> 13:46.360] There we go. [13:46.440 --> 13:46.860] We're getting there. [13:47.460 --> 13:48.700] C-O-O-K-E. [13:48.900 --> 13:49.280] There we are. [13:49.380 --> 13:49.520] C-O-O-K-E. [13:49.520 --> 13:49.760] COOKE 1. [13:50.820 --> 13:51.220] Okay. [13:51.220 --> 13:53.560] Okay, so there's a CIA knockoff. [13:53.820 --> 13:54.660] Looks familiar. [13:57.760 --> 14:09.200] This product over here, those five connectors accepted the 3-pin, 50-pin connectors that were on the later multi-line telephone. [14:10.360 --> 14:16.420] That's a copy of my 1080... what the heck is that called? [14:16.880 --> 14:17.460] HT. [14:18.260 --> 14:20.740] All these switches here were a copy. [14:21.220 --> 14:25.160] Of my 1080 LE, which was a line extender for my analyzer. [14:25.420 --> 14:28.200] And all these switches do basically the same thing you saw there. [14:28.560 --> 14:32.160] But they went out and did their thing. [14:32.460 --> 14:33.420] No control over it. [14:33.460 --> 14:35.000] People say, well, why don't you patent your product? [14:35.200 --> 14:36.420] I have two patents. [14:36.600 --> 14:38.120] Each one cost me $30,000. [14:38.620 --> 14:40.580] I've developed 600 different products. [14:40.760 --> 14:43.540] You're looking at $18 million I'd be spending for patents. [14:44.060 --> 14:50.580] It's just... my position was that I could develop new products faster than they could be stolen. [14:51.220 --> 14:52.920] So, you know... [14:54.540 --> 14:56.340] And that's... [14:56.340 --> 14:58.540] It worked for a while. [14:58.960 --> 14:59.700] It really... [14:59.700 --> 15:00.580] Thank you. [15:00.920 --> 15:01.660] Thank you. [15:02.840 --> 15:05.180] So it worked for a while. [15:07.780 --> 15:08.840] Let's see. [15:12.220 --> 15:27.060] I'm now in my heyday of 1974, really moving along in the bomb business primarily because bombings were coming up primarily in cities like Miami, Los Angeles, Philadelphia. [15:28.820 --> 15:31.160] Pipe bombs were all the rage. [15:32.380 --> 15:45.440] The average bomb technician at that time had a fishing reel with some heavy monofilament line on it and a treble hook, a pair of pliers, a screwdriver, a flashlight, a pair of gloves, and a lot of nerve. [15:45.440 --> 15:48.140] That basically was the bomb kit of the 70s. [15:48.380 --> 15:54.680] So I tried to take it from there to the electronics, the stethoscopes to find the time bombs. [15:55.460 --> 15:58.760] I made an inductive stethoscope to find digital wristwatches. [15:58.920 --> 16:06.160] I made a Doppler stethoscope to look inside packages to hear any mechanism like radio control devices. [16:06.160 --> 16:10.320] You can actually hear integrated circuits, timing, just all kinds of neat things. [16:10.780 --> 16:17.560] The Doppler also proved a good bugging device because you pointed at a digital telephone and it could read the CPU inside the telephone. [16:17.720 --> 16:21.400] You can extract the audio out of the phone that way by microwave. [16:22.140 --> 16:24.400] So that was kind of a spin-off benefit of it. [16:27.460 --> 16:29.600] So as I say, everything was going along. [16:29.600 --> 16:44.660] And in 1968, they passed a law called the Omnibus Crime Bill that made it illegal to manufacture, assemble, possess any device or any component thereof that was primarily used for the surreptitious interception of oral communications. [16:44.820 --> 16:46.660] That's public law 1812. [16:46.940 --> 16:48.340] That's the 18 U.S.C. 12. [16:49.660 --> 16:55.260] So it took them... they had a built-in automatic five-year review period and they were running behind schedule. [16:55.260 --> 17:04.860] So in 1974, the House Select Committee on Intelligence contacted me and they said, we would like to see your records of sales of these types of devices. [17:05.480 --> 17:10.880] Well, fortunately, I've been dealing primarily with state and local and federal governments and the FBI. [17:11.180 --> 17:11.780] Sorry about that. [17:13.680 --> 17:16.340] In one of my transactions involving the FBI... [17:16.940 --> 17:21.760] Oh, the FBI took me over to a little company they had called U.S. [17:21.900 --> 17:22.660] Recording Company. [17:23.440 --> 17:25.400] And they said, we never buy anything direct. [17:25.400 --> 17:26.380] We buy it through U.S. [17:26.540 --> 17:29.660] Recording Company, which is our splinter organization. [17:30.600 --> 17:35.400] So, fortunately, I had the moxie to go to the FBI, show them a product like the buggy sticker. [17:35.480 --> 17:36.420] And I used to be able to call J. [17:36.500 --> 17:38.860] Edgar Hoover up on the phone and say, hey, I want to come down and talk to you. [17:39.100 --> 17:41.980] I think the reason he liked me... and I finally figured it out. [17:42.420 --> 17:47.000] See, my name is Kaiser, which in German means King, and my first two names are Martin Luther. [17:47.740 --> 17:51.120] So, I really think that's why the guy liked me. [17:52.760 --> 17:57.640] Anyhow, he probably thought I was something strange, but we were two of a kind, basically. [17:57.800 --> 17:58.680] He did his thing. [17:59.380 --> 18:01.380] So, anyhow... [18:02.460 --> 18:12.320] I happened to be over at FBI headquarters, and there, sitting on the desktop of the technician, or the engineer, was one of my invoices that had been marked up 50%. [18:12.960 --> 18:16.080] My price crossed out, and 50% added in there. [18:16.240 --> 18:17.400] And I thought that was strange. [18:19.960 --> 18:25.580] So, when the House Select Committee on Intelligence looked at all my invoices, they saw this, you were at the recording company, and they said, who's that? [18:25.660 --> 18:26.520] And I said, well, that's the FBI. [18:26.980 --> 18:33.600] And so, they went through all these invoices, and I told them that little story about one of those invoices being marked up. [18:33.800 --> 18:35.680] It was for a BT-50 body transmitter. [18:35.840 --> 18:36.960] That's what it was actually for. [18:38.200 --> 18:40.220] So, next thing you know, I'm before Congress. [18:41.720 --> 18:42.120] And... [18:43.520 --> 18:56.660] I had planned to complain, and I was going to complain bitterly, because there was a company in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, called Audio Intelligence Devices, who was manufacturing, assembling, possessing, inventorying, bugging devices. [18:56.740 --> 19:00.700] And I said, hey, how come you're letting this company do it, and you won't let me do that? [19:00.940 --> 19:03.780] And believe it or not, I got a letter back from Attorney General Levy. [19:03.780 --> 19:07.160] He said, you do what you think is right, and if you're wrong, we'll arrest you. [19:07.340 --> 19:08.100] It's simple as that. [19:08.620 --> 19:11.120] So, honestly, guys, I have that letter. [19:11.240 --> 19:12.520] It may even be my website. [19:13.140 --> 19:31.980] So, anyhow, I was complaining about AID, but unknown to me, when I went down to give my talk, there was a speech in front of me that had been prepared by the House Selective Committee on Intelligence, centering on the FBI problem. [19:32.820 --> 19:40.940] So, I went out to an anti-room and an anti-room and tried to correct it and did the best I could, but the story was out. [19:41.120 --> 19:44.600] And it hit Newsweek and Time and all the papers worldwide. [19:47.560 --> 19:58.860] So, as a result of that appearance before Congress, my business fell from a half a million dollars a year to $450 the very next year. [20:00.520 --> 20:03.380] $450 the next year from a half a million in sales. [20:04.360 --> 20:07.760] That's how the intelligence community can turn on you. [20:08.120 --> 20:12.740] And it's a very... well, in reality, it's a fairly easy terminal. [20:12.740 --> 20:17.160] All these intelligence agencies rely on the FBI for their intelligence. [20:17.520 --> 20:23.060] And if the FBI said, do not buy from Kaiser, they don't buy from Kaiser, whether they like it or not. [20:23.480 --> 20:26.660] So, fortunately, the bomb business was booming. [20:26.880 --> 20:28.120] That's one of my favorite puns. [20:29.600 --> 20:31.500] And that kept me up there. [20:31.500 --> 20:37.600] I had to lay off a few people and I tapered down until I was making bomb disposal and bomb detection equipment. [20:38.800 --> 20:41.440] And, as I say, I was telling some pretty heavy-duty stuff. [20:41.660 --> 20:46.360] The story is on my website under my FBI story. [20:46.520 --> 20:46.880] Where is it? [20:46.980 --> 20:48.200] Let's see if we can find it. [20:49.580 --> 20:50.960] We go up here. [20:52.000 --> 20:53.900] Boy, this is one sensitive little mouse. [20:54.520 --> 20:55.020] Oh. [20:56.800 --> 20:57.080] Oh. [20:58.900 --> 20:59.400] Yeah. [20:59.400 --> 21:00.300] I just... [21:00.300 --> 21:00.460] Yeah. [21:00.920 --> 21:01.440] Hit that mouse. [21:02.020 --> 21:03.020] Or hit that thing. [21:03.360 --> 21:03.860] Okay. [21:03.980 --> 21:05.140] Now, let's go to index. [21:06.420 --> 21:07.580] Do you have a file called index? [21:07.820 --> 21:08.180] Yeah. [21:08.440 --> 21:09.440] I-N-D-E-X. [21:14.660 --> 21:15.160] Index. [21:17.060 --> 21:18.860] It's the very first one on the list. [21:19.780 --> 21:20.560] Where is it? [21:20.880 --> 21:23.880] I-N-D-E-X. [21:23.880 --> 21:24.460] I didn't put it on here. [21:25.520 --> 21:26.200] I'm sorry. [21:26.580 --> 21:26.640] Yeah. [21:26.860 --> 21:27.340] This... [21:27.340 --> 21:28.660] These are all the JPEG files. [21:28.960 --> 21:32.280] The home page does not appear as a JPEG file. [21:32.440 --> 21:34.140] It's a Brigger file. [21:35.600 --> 21:36.700] What is your home page? [21:38.900 --> 21:39.860] MartyKaiser.com. [21:41.160 --> 21:46.120] M-A-R-T-Y-K-A-I-S-E-R.com. [21:46.620 --> 21:47.560] W-W-W. [21:48.380 --> 21:51.400] I figured I'd use that because it was me, so... [21:53.680 --> 22:04.660] So, anyhow, my business plummeted, and there was just an onslaught of attempts to entrap me. [22:05.280 --> 22:11.900] I don't want to detail all of them, but they were just nonstop, and some of them got pretty damn near violent. [22:12.760 --> 22:20.320] I started carrying a revolver with me because the next FBI agent that showed up my door, that was going to be the last door he knocked on. [22:20.400 --> 22:22.680] I was really, really upset with them. [22:22.680 --> 22:33.120] So, an opportunity arose to help a customer, a bank in North Carolina, run by Edwin Duncan, called Northwestern Bank. [22:33.680 --> 22:45.820] And he had a lot of experience with the IRS and the FBI because Ed Duncan ran the financing operation for a lot of off-the-book projects. [22:45.820 --> 22:51.780] So, Ed was a super patriot, and he ran this bank, ran out of his back pocket, $10 billion bank. [22:53.300 --> 22:59.680] And he knew a lot about money laundering because his father had founded the bank on moonshine money in Western North Carolina. [23:00.040 --> 23:02.700] So, he knew how to do this kind of stuff. [23:02.900 --> 23:10.760] So, he was a banker, and I went down to the health mountain, and I bugged a couple of FBI agents, Thomas Brereton and Zachary Lowe. [23:10.760 --> 23:13.840] Zachary Lowe, by the way, is the son of the Lowe hardware chain. [23:15.600 --> 23:17.200] So, I bugged these two guys. [23:18.320 --> 23:23.140] And, of course, the bug was discovered five months after I planted it, even though they knew it was there. [23:23.420 --> 23:24.380] That's another story. [23:25.840 --> 23:28.020] So, they were watching me the whole time. [23:28.140 --> 23:29.160] I was waving back at them. [23:29.820 --> 23:32.660] It just was... it was an incredible state of events. [23:33.420 --> 23:34.600] So, I got indicted. [23:37.380 --> 23:42.280] And it... just backing up, to get indicted, you have to go before a grand jury. [23:42.480 --> 23:44.620] And you go into the grand jury, and you talk. [23:44.840 --> 23:50.040] And I took the Fifth Amendment 150 times, roughly, because that's what my attorney told me to do. [23:50.560 --> 23:54.360] And when the paralegal came out, he said, I want you to tell me exactly what you saw. [23:54.360 --> 24:00.540] So, I started around the grand jury room, got over to the foreman's table, and I said, well, there was a foreman, and there was FBI agent Brereton. [24:00.960 --> 24:01.840] He said, what? [24:02.500 --> 24:03.240] I said, yeah. [24:03.560 --> 24:04.380] And he was sitting there. [24:04.480 --> 24:06.180] Well, that's a violation of federal law. [24:06.560 --> 24:11.060] And he could have been... it could have caused him serious problems. [24:11.480 --> 24:13.340] So, we had to call for a special hearing. [24:14.300 --> 24:16.680] And, naturally, if I would take the stand, I'd say he was there. [24:16.780 --> 24:18.580] If he would take the stand, he'd say he wasn't there. [24:18.820 --> 24:23.040] So, the only way to prove he was there was to put some of the grand jurors on the stand. [24:23.780 --> 24:30.720] So, through a sequence of events, before I even went to trial, I had all the names and addresses of the grand jurors that indicted me. [24:31.100 --> 24:32.880] So, I knew who they were, okay? [24:33.460 --> 24:38.340] So, I went through a trial, and if you're interested in the details, it's on my website. [24:38.900 --> 24:44.580] I went through a trial, got acquitted, and after I got acquitted, I wrote to all the grand jurors, and I said, here's what you did to me. [24:44.660 --> 24:45.560] I wasn't mean about it. [24:45.600 --> 24:47.920] I said, it cost me $78,000 in legal fees. [24:48.160 --> 24:50.820] It cost me this much and lost business, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. [24:51.880 --> 24:53.140] I forgot about that. [24:53.580 --> 24:59.240] A couple months earlier, these two FBI agents sued me for $22 million claiming I caused the mental anguish. [25:00.280 --> 25:03.320] The one agent, Agent Lowe said I aggravated... [25:03.320 --> 25:11.080] I'm sorry, Agent Browden said I aggravated the sty in his eye, and Agent Lowe said I aggravated his hemorrhoidal condition. [25:11.980 --> 25:17.380] So, I appeared on newspapers worldwide, Kaiser Pen in the ass says FBI. [25:24.430 --> 25:30.050] But there was nothing in the United States, absolutely nothing in the United States. [25:30.270 --> 25:38.590] Everything was all overseas, Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, front page of the London Daily Telegraph, incredible, but nothing in the United States. [25:38.690 --> 25:39.370] That shows you... [25:40.150 --> 25:41.450] That has not changed. [25:42.670 --> 25:43.510] That has not changed. [25:43.510 --> 25:44.090] That has not changed. [25:44.370 --> 25:45.310] Oh, you're right. [25:45.330 --> 25:46.250] It has not changed. [25:46.430 --> 25:47.230] It has not changed. [25:49.470 --> 26:00.210] So, I turned around and countersued these guys for libel and abuse of power and abuse of process, which I thought was a fair thing. [26:00.410 --> 26:05.350] And that resulted in my getting all of my FBI files stacked that high. [26:06.390 --> 26:19.470] I want to tell you something about those files, but the main point right now is there, sitting on top of that pile, were all 24 of my original letters that I sent to those grand jurors. [26:21.490 --> 26:25.850] And that's... of all the things, that is what disappointed me most. [26:26.010 --> 26:29.110] If not one single grand juror said, hey, wait a second. [26:29.570 --> 26:31.190] Kaiser sent that letter to me. [26:31.310 --> 26:32.230] You're welcome to a copy. [26:32.230 --> 26:33.730] But he sent it to me. [26:34.030 --> 26:40.010] But they all surrendered my original letter to the FBI, and there they were, right on the top of that stack. [26:40.850 --> 26:47.270] Well, when I saw that, I said, okay, we're going to add the grand jurors to my civil suit. [26:47.370 --> 26:48.590] I'm going to sue those bastards. [26:49.150 --> 26:51.150] You know, I read the testimony. [26:51.310 --> 26:57.150] They spent 15 minutes to indict me for crimes I could have spent 15 years in jail for. [26:57.890 --> 26:59.350] You think they're going to be my friends? [26:59.550 --> 27:00.510] Let them suffer. [27:00.830 --> 27:01.470] Sue them. [27:02.230 --> 27:03.830] And that attorney said, oh, wow. [27:04.250 --> 27:11.310] He said, I want to be responsible for wrecking the grand jury system in this country, number one, and I don't want to be the most hated attorney in the world, number two. [27:11.530 --> 27:20.950] So he refused to put the grand jurors on my countersuit against the FBI and the two agents. [27:20.950 --> 27:31.710] I threw away $300,000 in 1980 trying to defend myself or pin them down on that civil suit. [27:32.350 --> 27:38.190] Lost tens of millions of dollars in business trying to get something to accomplish. [27:38.190 --> 27:41.710] And I accomplished absolutely nothing. [27:42.490 --> 27:43.510] Absolutely nothing. [27:44.730 --> 27:46.630] We went through to 1986. [27:51.270 --> 27:52.970] All the attorneys had the hearing. [27:53.110 --> 27:54.630] I was the only person of interest there. [27:54.850 --> 27:56.610] Ed Duncan died three days later. [27:56.610 --> 27:59.450] The FBI agents were out making money somewhere else. [28:00.090 --> 28:02.270] All the other defendants weren't there. [28:02.270 --> 28:05.830] And the attorney for the FBI agent said to the bank... [28:05.830 --> 28:07.930] Or no, the bank attorney said to the FBI agent... [28:07.930 --> 28:12.570] Or the attorney for the FBI guys, what do you guys want to get off our ass? [28:13.170 --> 28:14.950] He said, oh, we'll take a quarter million bucks. [28:15.210 --> 28:18.670] And when you say so, you know, wrote a couple checks and threw them across the table. [28:18.670 --> 28:20.210] And he looked at me and they said, take a hike. [28:20.950 --> 28:28.090] So it was either spend the rest of my entire life and all of my money trying to fight these guys. [28:28.110 --> 28:29.370] So I just dropped it. [28:29.530 --> 28:31.230] I just couldn't do it. [28:31.430 --> 28:33.670] The impact on my family was bad enough. [28:34.770 --> 28:36.770] The impact on my business was bad. [28:37.150 --> 28:41.190] So I've struggled along from that point onward. [28:41.770 --> 28:48.490] But going back to those files, I want to make a strong point on them. [28:50.550 --> 28:55.690] First of all, when you look at the stack of papers, there were all these green sheets in there. [28:56.150 --> 28:58.590] And they were sign-out sheets for documents. [28:58.790 --> 29:02.690] Where documents had been removed, signed out to so-and-so. [29:03.450 --> 29:05.070] And who were they signed out to? [29:05.630 --> 29:06.970] FBI agent Brereton. [29:07.410 --> 29:10.330] One of the very people who was suing me for $22 million. [29:12.530 --> 29:17.030] So, you know, he's claiming he's a civilian when I bugged him. [29:17.030 --> 29:20.250] But a federal agent, when he has the FBI files in front of him. [29:21.050 --> 29:22.410] And that was bad enough. [29:22.710 --> 29:31.010] So, as I read through them, they had me in five places at exactly the same time. [29:32.150 --> 29:41.310] And I said, well, they had me in Egypt training President Sadat's security staff, which is what I was doing. [29:41.590 --> 29:43.630] I said, I will get the CIA to tell you. [29:43.730 --> 29:44.770] I'll show you my ticket. [29:44.930 --> 29:46.110] I'll show you my passport. [29:46.270 --> 29:49.170] I want those other four things out of that file. [29:49.670 --> 29:51.310] They said, we can't do it. [29:51.310 --> 29:55.650] So, that's the basic problem with FBI files. [29:55.890 --> 30:03.950] They are built on informants, misinformation, fantasies of all sorts, generated for some purpose. [30:04.250 --> 30:09.890] Either to get out of jail, or to destroy you as a competitor, or do other things. [30:09.890 --> 30:17.570] And I want to tell you, you, every one of you, are absolutely powerless to change those files. [30:18.210 --> 30:19.170] Absolutely powerless. [30:19.550 --> 30:25.150] And I wish there were a way for every one of us to be able to see our FBI files. [30:25.310 --> 30:26.270] To challenge them. [30:26.510 --> 30:29.110] To put a note down at the bottom, he does not agree with this. [30:29.710 --> 30:30.590] Not a chance. [30:30.970 --> 30:32.130] Not a chance. [30:32.130 --> 30:33.910] So, it's in there forever. [30:34.670 --> 30:37.030] That's the job of the hacker, is to get in there and get them out. [30:41.530 --> 30:42.490] But, um... [30:42.490 --> 30:46.890] So, at the moment, I'm struggling along as a small business. [30:46.890 --> 30:50.090] I say it myself and a part-time helper, a young girl by the name of Allison. [30:51.210 --> 30:52.510] And we continue. [30:52.930 --> 30:56.670] I'm part of the State Department Anti-Terrorism Assistance Program. [30:57.050 --> 31:00.930] I make stethoscopes and blasting machines primarily for them. [31:01.970 --> 31:04.510] They bring in bomb squads, five at a time. [31:05.090 --> 31:08.090] Bomb squads from all over the world to Virginia. [31:08.630 --> 31:10.010] Train them on my equipment. [31:10.290 --> 31:11.410] Send them back to their country. [31:11.570 --> 31:12.450] And they do their job. [31:12.830 --> 31:13.610] Hopefully well. [31:13.850 --> 31:14.950] So they can stay alive. [31:16.890 --> 31:17.850] So, uh... [31:19.030 --> 31:20.550] I think I've covered it all. [31:21.930 --> 31:23.590] Do I have any questions from the floor? [31:24.010 --> 31:25.690] I'm supposed to set aside... [31:28.050 --> 31:28.530] Okay. [31:30.250 --> 31:32.850] Are there any more pictures you want to show for the next couple of minutes? [31:32.850 --> 31:33.570] Um... [31:33.570 --> 31:34.370] Yeah, I could... [31:34.370 --> 31:36.290] Let me just... [31:38.910 --> 31:43.810] First of all, my book is available in hardcover and paperback. [31:45.430 --> 31:45.910] Um... [31:45.910 --> 31:46.370] You can... [31:46.370 --> 31:48.690] The best bet is to buy it on Amazon.com. [31:49.410 --> 31:51.410] Its price has been holding pretty good. [31:52.270 --> 31:52.750] Um... [31:52.750 --> 31:56.570] Initially, I don't know if you're familiar with the Amazon ranking system, but... [31:57.610 --> 31:58.050] Um... [31:58.050 --> 31:59.530] The lower the number, the better. [31:59.890 --> 32:03.530] And they got up to 274, which is kind of pretty good. [32:03.690 --> 32:04.590] It's up toward number one. [32:04.990 --> 32:08.030] Now they're running around 100,000, which isn't bad. [32:08.590 --> 32:09.870] Considering it's been out a year. [32:10.530 --> 32:18.970] But I've started advertising in ham radio magazines, and there's a whole new interest in that, because I have my call letters, W3VCG, uh... on there. [32:19.850 --> 32:20.730] So, uh... [32:20.730 --> 32:21.050] Uh... [32:21.050 --> 32:21.450] So they're... [32:21.450 --> 32:22.010] They're available. [32:22.990 --> 32:24.530] That is not a commercial pitch. [32:24.530 --> 32:25.990] I do not make money on books. [32:26.270 --> 32:28.550] Marty's going to be doing a book signing after this... [32:28.550 --> 32:29.410] After this talk. [32:29.630 --> 32:31.830] Right outside the door of the, uh... [32:31.830 --> 32:32.470] This room. [32:32.690 --> 32:35.910] So, if you're interested in talking to Marty afterwards, we're getting one of his books. [32:36.010 --> 32:36.670] He's available outside. [32:36.930 --> 32:37.270] Okay. [32:39.350 --> 32:39.790] Um... [32:40.930 --> 32:41.370] This... [32:41.370 --> 32:42.310] This is kind of... [32:42.310 --> 32:43.110] Kind of sad. [32:43.210 --> 32:45.350] I only brought half of the stack, uh... [32:45.350 --> 32:45.850] With the... [32:45.850 --> 32:48.610] As I said, I've developed over 600 different products. [32:48.990 --> 32:49.710] And it's... [32:49.710 --> 32:54.350] It's fascinating to just leaf through these things for all the memories, uh... [32:54.350 --> 32:55.830] That are there from... [32:56.350 --> 32:58.210] From the start of time, basically. [32:59.690 --> 33:00.170] And... [33:00.170 --> 33:03.470] There are a lot of humorous stories involved in them. [33:03.950 --> 33:04.430] Uh... [33:04.430 --> 33:08.330] Like, there was a guy using one of my bug detectors in the crawl ceiling, uh... [33:08.330 --> 33:08.670] In the... [33:09.210 --> 33:09.450] Above... [33:09.450 --> 33:09.750] Yeah. [33:09.810 --> 33:10.530] In the crawl ceiling. [33:10.650 --> 33:16.050] He filtered the ceiling onto the Colonel's desk and smashed the desktop while he was searching for bugs. [33:16.910 --> 33:17.350] But... [33:17.350 --> 33:18.050] You'll... [33:18.050 --> 33:20.330] You'll see a diversity of tracking systems. [33:20.630 --> 33:20.810] Uh... [33:20.810 --> 33:21.630] Finding people... [33:21.630 --> 33:23.070] I've given up on that because their... [33:23.070 --> 33:24.670] GPS is just too good now. [33:24.930 --> 33:25.050] Uh... [33:25.050 --> 33:25.210] Yeah. [33:25.290 --> 33:26.350] GPS is too good now. [33:27.870 --> 33:28.310] Uh... [33:28.870 --> 33:29.090] There's... [33:29.090 --> 33:31.390] There's still a lot of pipe bombs out there. [33:31.490 --> 33:32.970] There's still a lot of bombs that tick. [33:33.370 --> 33:35.510] There's still a lot of radio control devices. [33:37.030 --> 33:37.470] Um... [33:37.470 --> 33:38.030] It's just... [33:38.030 --> 33:39.350] You just have to keep up with it. [33:39.390 --> 33:43.930] You have to constantly churn out new technology every time you hear about something. [33:43.930 --> 33:49.990] And fortunately, I still have a few friends and some high agencies that feed me the forensic evidence. [33:49.990 --> 33:53.530] And I'm able to decide which way to go from that point. [33:54.190 --> 33:55.930] I'm 72 years old now. [33:56.290 --> 33:56.810] I'm... [33:56.810 --> 33:57.790] I'm getting tired. [33:58.210 --> 33:59.130] I really am getting tired. [33:59.350 --> 34:02.730] I'm planning to work till I'm 88 like my dad. [34:02.890 --> 34:03.090] But... [34:03.090 --> 34:03.950] I don't know. [34:04.030 --> 34:04.330] But I... [34:04.330 --> 34:08.870] I really have to just continue to come out with ideas to help people. [34:09.350 --> 34:12.530] I've been completely blocked out of the roadside bomb issue. [34:13.710 --> 34:14.190] Um... [34:14.190 --> 34:14.490] There... [34:14.490 --> 34:15.810] There are solutions to that. [34:16.230 --> 34:16.710] And... [34:16.710 --> 34:17.590] Nobody's interested. [34:17.950 --> 34:19.390] I think it's, uh... [34:19.390 --> 34:22.410] Driven by economics versus saving of lives. [34:22.770 --> 34:24.470] Sad to say, but that's happened a lot. [34:25.930 --> 34:26.410] So... [34:26.410 --> 34:26.690] Okay. [34:27.190 --> 34:27.430] Um... [34:27.430 --> 34:28.470] Any other questions? [34:28.610 --> 34:29.690] I have about five more minutes. [34:29.810 --> 34:30.230] And then I... [34:30.230 --> 34:31.490] I think I have to get out of here. [34:31.610 --> 34:32.030] Don't I end? [34:32.590 --> 34:33.890] You have about 15 minutes. [34:34.030 --> 34:34.990] Oh, 15 minutes. [34:35.110 --> 34:35.270] Wow. [34:36.630 --> 34:37.190] Who... [34:37.190 --> 34:37.430] Who... [34:37.430 --> 34:37.830] Who has the mic? [34:39.290 --> 34:39.970] Go ahead. [34:40.930 --> 34:41.250] Um... [34:41.250 --> 34:47.010] A couple weeks ago, Congress passed the FISA Amendments Act, which essentially legitimizes mass telecommunications. [34:48.570 --> 34:56.170] A couple weeks ago, Congress passed the FISA Amendments Act, which essentially legitimizes mass telecommunications surveillance. [34:56.470 --> 34:59.090] I was just wondering what your opinions on that are. [34:59.470 --> 35:01.050] You're going to have to help me with this. [35:03.170 --> 35:09.210] The FISA bill lately that provided telecom immunity, your opinion on that? [35:09.210 --> 35:16.230] They granted the telecommunications company's immunity for tapping and tape. [35:16.250 --> 35:18.950] It's hard hearing it because I'm hearing a lot of things. [35:19.150 --> 35:22.050] What are your opinions on warrantless wiretapping? [35:23.830 --> 35:24.790] Warrantless wiretapping? [35:25.910 --> 35:27.250] It's been going on forever. [35:35.190 --> 35:38.130] I want to tell you how that works, by the way. [35:39.210 --> 35:55.870] If a city can go before a judge and get a 90-day warrantless wiretapping and run out the 90 days, and then they bump it to the next city, and they say, well, here, pick up where we left off. [35:56.010 --> 36:01.250] And they just keep bumping it around the countryside, and they've got you 24-7, 365 days a year. [36:01.630 --> 36:02.890] So it's all warrantless. [36:03.050 --> 36:06.990] It started with one warrant for 90 days, and it just goes on forever. [36:06.990 --> 36:08.190] You can't stop it. [36:09.130 --> 36:10.430] It's impossible to stop. [36:10.890 --> 36:11.130] Okay. [36:13.110 --> 36:16.270] You hinted at a couple of the things that you have done. [36:16.390 --> 36:29.090] I mean, looking out from the middle of a lock, could you tell us, as just war stories, the clever kind of things that you've done for surveillance where you... [36:29.090 --> 36:34.250] So if we walk into the room and we see a blank wall, we say, well, there's probably 20 cameras right there. [36:34.650 --> 36:36.810] I mean, what kind of things... [36:36.810 --> 36:38.790] How small are these devices? [36:39.570 --> 36:41.250] Where do they look out from? [36:43.990 --> 36:44.470] Just... [36:45.230 --> 36:45.710] Okay. [36:46.030 --> 36:47.930] Tell us how to be careful. [36:55.440 --> 36:55.800] Okay. [36:56.260 --> 36:57.040] That's a good point. [36:58.660 --> 37:05.040] If you go to my website, there's a primer on there called a surveillance primer, and that will cover most of your questions. [37:06.420 --> 37:08.500] They get down pretty small. [37:08.640 --> 37:10.540] I mean, as far as microphones are concerned. [37:11.220 --> 37:14.460] As soon as you hook them up to a wire, you stand a good chance of finding them. [37:14.460 --> 37:22.400] And basically what you use is a comb generator, which is an oscillator that generates frequency, say, from one kilohertz out to whatever. [37:22.660 --> 37:26.020] And that impinges on the wire and reveals its presence. [37:26.020 --> 37:28.680] So that's one way of going about it. [37:28.820 --> 37:31.860] But the physical search is an important part. [37:31.860 --> 37:41.960] And I would think with a general purpose radio frequency detector and a beat frequency metal detector, there's a big... [37:43.080 --> 37:46.240] Most of you aren't old enough to remember beat frequency metal detectors. [37:48.040 --> 37:48.480] But... [37:48.480 --> 37:50.240] For ham radio, aren't you? [37:50.240 --> 37:50.560] Yeah. [37:52.280 --> 37:56.140] So when you went to the airport and they held a metal detector next to you, it would go... [37:56.600 --> 37:57.480] You remember those? [37:57.580 --> 37:59.100] And they used to set the knob to make the thing. [37:59.220 --> 38:00.380] Those are called beat frequency. [38:00.480 --> 38:03.480] Now they're all pulse induction and other kinds of technology. [38:04.080 --> 38:15.640] But you need one of those for checking wooden furniture and things in walls because they will measure not only the metal content, they will measure the mineral content of the surface. [38:15.940 --> 38:25.100] So if you're going over four table legs and you get a different tone on one of them, then that means it's gone from minerals to metal, versus, you know, metal to metal. [38:25.360 --> 38:26.700] So that's why the beat frequency... [38:26.700 --> 38:27.820] I don't know where you get those now. [38:27.820 --> 38:29.340] I used to make one many years ago. [38:29.520 --> 38:32.360] And I see them advertised as vibrating metal detectors. [38:32.360 --> 38:34.280] They're beat frequency type. [38:35.780 --> 38:36.320] Okay, now... [38:36.320 --> 38:37.300] Hold on there a second. [38:37.960 --> 38:38.460] Let's see. [38:38.520 --> 38:41.080] I have a feeling I haven't answered all your questions. [38:43.200 --> 38:44.020] Yeah, I... [38:44.020 --> 38:48.000] You said on your website, there's a tutorial, and we can read that. [38:48.200 --> 38:48.860] Yeah, yeah. [38:49.080 --> 38:50.500] And I'm going to be updating that. [38:50.560 --> 38:52.180] I have to do more writing. [38:52.180 --> 39:01.760] I've been working on a movie about me, and that's kind of gone through the slam dance and sun dance festivals and all kinds of things. [39:01.860 --> 39:03.120] And making a movie is very difficult. [39:04.920 --> 39:08.340] I guess you all know I wrote the movie Enemy of the State, I would imagine. [39:10.440 --> 39:12.380] So that was a fun project. [39:12.380 --> 39:13.360] But it took... [39:17.390 --> 39:21.270] Even though it wrote itself, it consisted of two parts. [39:21.450 --> 39:30.790] A six-part Sunday Magazine article written about the National Security Agency by two reporters of the Baltimore Sun paper, and my FBI story on my website. [39:31.470 --> 39:35.990] And Jerry Bruckheimer took those two things and sent them to David Marconi, the screenplay writer. [39:36.250 --> 39:40.390] He wrote the screenplay, came back to me, and then I took over from there. [39:40.390 --> 39:44.170] So all the technology you see in that movie is my stuff. [39:44.990 --> 39:46.250] I call it my stuff. [39:47.610 --> 39:48.530] It's equipment. [39:48.790 --> 39:49.410] It was fun. [39:49.550 --> 39:51.390] There were some props there, but... [39:53.790 --> 39:56.270] Well, we spent about a year and a half doing that. [39:56.390 --> 39:58.350] And I was behind the camera for every shot. [39:58.530 --> 40:03.870] I spent five months with Hackman and Smith and Regina King and Barry Pepper, the whole crew. [40:04.070 --> 40:05.490] It was an exciting thing. [40:05.910 --> 40:06.350] So, okay. [40:07.190 --> 40:07.650] Question. [40:08.170 --> 40:11.510] It's more of a comment than a question, but I'm pretty sure you'll have some comments on it. [40:12.670 --> 40:25.170] $300,019.80 equals $846,426.83 in 2007, not 2008 dollars. [40:25.390 --> 40:25.490] Yeah. [40:26.310 --> 40:26.650] Thank you. [40:26.810 --> 40:27.470] Thank you for that. [40:29.190 --> 40:32.150] I knew it hurt, but I just didn't know how bad it hurt. [40:36.370 --> 40:37.150] Oh, boy. [40:37.750 --> 40:37.970] Okay. [40:37.970 --> 40:39.650] Great presentation, Marty. [40:39.790 --> 40:40.750] Thank you very much. [40:40.950 --> 40:49.810] The real risk of FISA for all of us is that a huge percentage of people monitoring telephone and email communications are private government contractors. [40:50.310 --> 40:50.870] So... [40:50.870 --> 40:54.170] And they're basically copying, recording, and archiving forever. [40:54.470 --> 41:01.090] So if you're developing intellectual property, it's in the hands of your competitors because it can be easily bought and sold. [41:01.090 --> 41:01.450] Yeah. [41:01.490 --> 41:11.210] So my question to you is, it seems to me that great presentation that you're talking about intellectual property theft was a primary motivation in all of your difficulties with the government. [41:11.430 --> 41:18.210] Is there anything that you can recommend for the rest of us if we're developing valuable intellectual property we can do to protect ourselves? [41:18.790 --> 41:19.070] No. [41:19.070 --> 41:20.310] Given your experience and background. [41:20.310 --> 41:21.310] It is... [41:22.690 --> 41:25.030] I would say it's impossible to protect yourself. [41:25.610 --> 41:26.950] I'm not willing to accept that. [41:27.310 --> 41:32.470] I hope that everybody here will be vocal and verbal about what's happening because this is what we're supercharged. [41:32.590 --> 41:38.150] If we have something of value, we need to be able to protect it and make sure that what's happened to you won't happen to us. [41:39.690 --> 41:40.110] Okay. [41:40.570 --> 41:40.770] Yeah. [41:40.970 --> 41:42.510] I did the Al Franken show. [41:42.630 --> 41:45.790] I don't know if you know the Al Franken. [41:45.790 --> 41:46.910] He's a California-based. [41:47.050 --> 41:48.710] And he asked me basically the same question. [41:48.850 --> 41:50.410] And my answer was, no. [41:50.630 --> 41:51.530] Thanks for calling me. [41:52.390 --> 41:53.250] That was it. [41:53.750 --> 41:54.790] So, yeah. [41:56.890 --> 42:02.750] When you get with a group of people like the intelligence community who have no ethics, literally. [42:02.770 --> 42:03.770] They have no ethics. [42:04.350 --> 42:05.650] Morals, that's a different thing. [42:05.750 --> 42:06.830] But have no ethics. [42:07.070 --> 42:07.730] They have... [42:07.730 --> 42:14.570] Since they live in a world of lies, thievery isn't that big a thing to them. [42:15.570 --> 42:16.930] I remember one example. [42:17.490 --> 42:20.390] Let's just say they have the lying school at Fort Holliburg. [42:20.790 --> 42:22.530] And I was doing some work down there. [42:22.630 --> 42:24.790] And I went across the street to a little grocery store. [42:24.910 --> 42:26.530] And I said, I'd like a mountain bar, please. [42:26.950 --> 42:28.290] And the guy just looked at me. [42:28.370 --> 42:29.450] And I said, I'd like a mountain bar. [42:30.050 --> 42:31.110] He just looked at me. [42:31.370 --> 42:33.450] I pulled out a dollar bill, put it on the counter. [42:33.510 --> 42:34.490] I said, I'd like a mountain bar. [42:34.530 --> 42:35.050] He said, fine. [42:35.810 --> 42:40.590] So, I mean, he's just impervious to this constant lying and trickery. [42:40.590 --> 42:42.910] And it's really sad. [42:43.170 --> 42:47.130] And I have some pretty strong views on this. [42:47.230 --> 42:55.450] But my view is, when these intelligence agents retire, we have a huge party for them. [42:56.150 --> 42:58.390] And then go out and summarily execute them. [43:03.870 --> 43:06.070] Yeah, I don't know what you do with them. [43:06.530 --> 43:08.550] You know, they're in society and... [43:08.550 --> 43:10.810] Sorry about all you intelligence guys. [43:12.210 --> 43:12.810] Okay. [43:14.290 --> 43:15.510] I was just curious. [43:15.770 --> 43:29.950] Since you were essentially excommunicated back by the intelligence agencies, if since then you've encountered any, especially somebody from the FBI, that is nice or sympathetic to your situation? [43:29.950 --> 43:32.370] Or they just all kind of follow the company line? [43:32.750 --> 43:33.190] Oh, Ed. [43:33.330 --> 43:33.670] Where's Ed? [43:33.970 --> 43:34.750] I need my translator. [43:35.010 --> 43:36.270] Now, I'm getting big echoes up here. [43:37.650 --> 43:39.610] Since this... [43:50.170 --> 43:51.570] Only retired ones. [43:52.130 --> 43:55.730] Because if they're still in, they have to be very discreet about it. [43:56.990 --> 43:58.810] I still have problems with them. [43:59.050 --> 44:00.070] It just goes on. [44:00.170 --> 44:02.050] And I was on their A-list when I flew. [44:02.330 --> 44:03.970] They canceled the heck out of me. [44:04.090 --> 44:05.890] Fortunately, I'm not on the no-fly list. [44:06.290 --> 44:10.090] But every little trick of the trade they had, they used on me. [44:12.430 --> 44:15.730] And fortunately, I have to say this to all you women out there. [44:16.550 --> 44:17.710] My wife's Italian. [44:18.650 --> 44:20.750] And she knows how the mafia functions. [44:21.490 --> 44:25.470] So she accepted what was going on with no hesitation. [44:26.570 --> 44:27.390] Sorry about that. [44:30.620 --> 44:31.760] Oh, seven minutes. [44:31.900 --> 44:32.320] Seven minutes. [44:32.480 --> 44:32.700] Okay. [44:32.720 --> 44:34.720] I'll just keep babbling away up here. [44:35.120 --> 44:39.180] But right now, as I say, I'm sort of semi-retired. [44:40.080 --> 44:45.020] I'm moving to my home in the Pocono Mountains and trying to take it a little bit easier. [44:45.020 --> 44:48.620] But I just feel this strong attachment to trying to help. [44:50.220 --> 44:55.900] And I just, a few weeks ago, came out with a new product that hadn't existed in the marketplace. [44:55.900 --> 44:57.120] And we'll see how that goes. [44:57.880 --> 44:59.660] But I'm still creating things. [45:00.460 --> 45:09.220] If you were going to surveil somebody, an intelligent agent perhaps, what devices would you use? [45:09.420 --> 45:10.600] How would you set it up? [45:11.060 --> 45:11.460] Et cetera. [45:13.160 --> 45:13.800] Ed. [45:17.580 --> 45:21.660] If you were going to surveil someone, what devices would you use? [45:21.760 --> 45:22.860] And how... [45:26.660 --> 45:34.460] Well, the infamous cell phone, of course, is always a good attack. [45:36.440 --> 45:41.060] The Doppler stethoscope remains a useful purpose. [45:41.320 --> 45:47.340] If you want to, say, do surveillance on somebody that's in a swimming pool, they decide to go in a swimming pool and have their conversation. [45:47.600 --> 45:53.700] They have Doppler stethoscopes that can measure the volume of water coming out of their mouth and extract intelligence that way. [45:54.380 --> 45:55.460] So, you know, they do that. [45:55.560 --> 45:58.980] But I think the old theremin technique is one of the better... Theremin. [45:59.140 --> 45:59.920] Now, you ever hear of Theremin? [46:00.460 --> 46:05.760] Theremin is a musical instrument that you put your hand near and the pitch of it goes up and down and all that kind of stuff. [46:06.040 --> 46:09.800] Well, he was... his biggest thing was making bugging devices for the Russian government. [46:10.920 --> 46:18.680] And he developed a bugging device involving low frequency but used a taut wire. [46:18.960 --> 46:29.400] So, you take a piece of wire and you make it taut like a banjo string or whatever, and you impinge RF onto it and the vibration of the wire gives you the conversation back. [46:29.400 --> 46:39.700] And a variation of that was the seal of our U.S. Embassy that the Russians gave us where there was a passive device in the seal. [46:39.880 --> 46:44.480] They irradiated it with one gigahertz energy, looked at two gigahertz coming back out. [46:44.660 --> 46:46.880] So, you can do the same thing with a taut wire. [46:47.220 --> 46:56.240] So, if there's a musical instrument or a piano anywhere nearby, anybody can use any one of those taut strings as an eavesdropping device. [46:56.600 --> 47:00.460] And that... when I did the movie The Conversation, that's the point I was trying to get across. [47:00.480 --> 47:04.400] He couldn't find out where it was because it was the instrument itself. [47:05.100 --> 47:06.060] You know, that kind of thing. [47:06.160 --> 47:07.980] Non-linear junction detection in that case. [47:08.660 --> 47:10.040] So, taut wires are a tough one. [47:11.380 --> 47:14.020] I... you still can go on the... in the European market. [47:14.040 --> 47:17.360] You go on my website and there's a place on there called Price Surveillance. [47:17.720 --> 47:19.400] Buy all the bugging equipment you want. [47:19.520 --> 47:20.460] Every single kind. [47:20.640 --> 47:21.840] All the stuff that's illegal here. [47:21.840 --> 47:23.980] He ships it in a brown paper bag. [47:24.200 --> 47:25.960] So, nobody knows what it is. [47:26.400 --> 47:28.860] But it's still very readily available. [47:29.200 --> 47:29.860] Very readily. [47:30.200 --> 47:34.940] There are some links on my website for kits that you can buy. [47:35.080 --> 47:37.460] And you can buy tons of different kits to do it. [47:39.080 --> 47:42.040] So, I just don't want to bug anybody anymore. [47:42.480 --> 47:44.680] I don't want to do any more wiretapping. [47:45.400 --> 47:46.300] I've been there. [47:46.420 --> 47:48.180] I've made the tools of the trade. [47:48.680 --> 47:50.740] People have used them and misused them. [47:50.980 --> 47:53.660] And that's where I step out of the picture. [47:55.200 --> 47:55.640] So... [47:55.640 --> 47:57.000] Boy, I still have four minutes. [47:57.500 --> 47:59.480] I guess I'm on TV or something. [48:00.060 --> 48:00.500] But... [48:00.500 --> 48:01.100] I... [48:01.100 --> 48:01.320] I... [48:01.320 --> 48:04.340] I have done quite a few radio and TV shows. [48:04.340 --> 48:06.040] And it's been... it's been a thrill to do that. [48:07.540 --> 48:07.980] Okay. [48:08.300 --> 48:09.920] The counterpart to his question. [48:10.400 --> 48:14.960] If you wanted to find a bug, starting from scratch, where would you start? [48:15.860 --> 48:17.560] Well, it's... it's... [48:19.080 --> 48:20.420] To answer that... [48:20.960 --> 48:24.620] Trying to electronically find a bug requires a lot of equipment. [48:25.360 --> 48:28.980] I think the average purse is going to be 30,000 to 40,000. [48:29.100 --> 48:30.360] You need spectrum analyzers. [48:30.380 --> 48:31.400] You need RF detectors. [48:31.580 --> 48:32.600] You need audio amplifiers. [48:32.900 --> 48:34.540] You know, a whole bunch of stuff. [48:34.840 --> 48:36.400] You need nonlinear junction detectors. [48:36.820 --> 48:40.420] But there's a company on my website called Dynasound. [48:40.420 --> 48:43.680] And they have noise masking equipment. [48:44.120 --> 48:44.820] You can... [48:44.820 --> 48:48.560] They have special speakers that go against the wall, against the windows. [48:48.800 --> 48:51.700] And it vibrates everything with sub-audible sound. [48:51.900 --> 48:55.140] And it eliminates a wide variety of microphones. [48:55.240 --> 48:57.100] Even microphones that are planted in the wall. [48:57.660 --> 49:00.180] The vibration will affect those. [49:01.140 --> 49:04.600] Years ago, one of our embassies was under attack. [49:04.600 --> 49:07.980] Because the Russian embassy was like four doors down. [49:08.240 --> 49:10.920] And they had contact mics strapped to the water pipes. [49:11.120 --> 49:13.500] And they were extracting room conversation. [49:13.920 --> 49:16.120] By this vibration of the outside of the pipes. [49:16.620 --> 49:16.760] Okay. [49:16.920 --> 49:19.220] So I came up with a thing called a pipe banger. [49:19.500 --> 49:21.600] Which is basically a rattler. [49:21.760 --> 49:22.780] You clipped on the pipe. [49:22.880 --> 49:24.480] And it would just sit there and tap on the pipe. [49:25.300 --> 49:25.860] You know. [49:26.440 --> 49:27.440] Simple as can be. [49:27.560 --> 49:29.700] But this Dynasound is a new... [49:29.700 --> 49:34.060] It's a company that has dedicated itself to this noise masking technology. [49:35.220 --> 49:35.760] And it does. [49:36.380 --> 49:38.300] It's surprising how well it works. [49:38.860 --> 49:41.280] But as far as somebody walking in with a bug. [49:42.380 --> 49:43.660] It's a tough thing. [49:44.440 --> 49:45.260] It really is. [49:45.320 --> 49:46.980] You get down in the... [49:46.980 --> 49:47.220] You know. [49:47.360 --> 49:48.580] Low microwatt range. [49:48.740 --> 49:51.380] Trying to find that at any particular distance is very difficult. [49:52.500 --> 49:53.020] Okay. [49:53.020 --> 49:54.540] I think I've run it finally. [49:55.160 --> 49:56.560] Any other quick ones? [49:57.060 --> 49:57.580] Well. [49:58.180 --> 50:01.820] If you thought the guy you were talking to was an FBI stooge. [50:01.940 --> 50:03.520] And you wanted to find out if he was bugged. [50:03.540 --> 50:04.120] How would you do it? [50:04.780 --> 50:04.840] Oh. [50:07.180 --> 50:07.920] Can you do it? [50:10.200 --> 50:12.380] I just carry a shock baton with you. [50:20.060 --> 50:20.500] Yeah. [50:20.710 --> 50:23.200] I was interviewed by two FBI agents one time. [50:23.360 --> 50:25.880] Back during this FBI problem. [50:27.180 --> 50:29.700] And every half hour the one guy would get up. [50:29.700 --> 50:31.000] He said he had to go to the bathroom. [50:31.380 --> 50:32.080] And he'd leave the room. [50:32.240 --> 50:33.300] And he'd go into the bathroom. [50:33.440 --> 50:34.380] And come back out again. [50:34.660 --> 50:35.420] And sit down. [50:35.600 --> 50:36.860] And half an hour later he had to get up. [50:36.860 --> 50:37.780] And he'd go to the bathroom again. [50:38.140 --> 50:42.020] The damn dummy didn't have enough common sense to flush the toilet. [50:43.260 --> 50:43.660] You know. [50:43.860 --> 50:44.480] You wonder. [50:44.680 --> 50:45.560] Well you know what he was doing. [50:45.740 --> 50:46.860] He was literally changing his tape. [50:47.910 --> 50:49.700] But talk about a simple cover. [50:50.200 --> 50:51.200] But he didn't do it. [50:54.980 --> 50:55.340] Okay. [50:55.920 --> 50:57.580] Marty, I just want to thank you for coming. [50:58.340 --> 51:00.580] Like I said, I contacted Marty out of the blue on this. [51:00.710 --> 51:03.240] He didn't volunteer to do this until we asked him. [51:03.380 --> 51:05.320] So this is a rare public appearance. [51:05.920 --> 51:09.280] Copies of his books will be available outside the room here. [51:09.480 --> 51:11.820] I'd be happy to answer any more questions you have over there. [51:11.980 --> 51:13.500] So thanks for coming to his talk. [51:14.560 --> 51:15.500] Bye, close friends. [51:17.260 --> 51:18.040] Thank you. [51:19.120 --> 51:19.780] Thanks, Kelly. [51:22.780 --> 51:23.640] Thanks, Kelly. [51:26.000 --> 51:30.280] Bye, Kelly.