[00:04.830 --> 00:06.170]  I'll put that in a reasonable place.
[00:06.630 --> 00:07.550]  I'm Gus Andrews.
[00:07.790 --> 00:10.530]  I am on Off the Hook sometimes, so you may have seen me there.
[00:10.710 --> 00:13.930]  If you've been to HOPE before, you may have heard one of my other talks.
[00:14.870 --> 00:18.790]  What I've been trying to do with my talks... I know, I can't see the audience.
[00:18.990 --> 00:19.710]  That's very tragic.
[00:19.850 --> 00:20.250]  We're still here!
[00:20.430 --> 00:20.890]  Okay, good.
[00:20.990 --> 00:23.070]  But I like to see your smiling faces.
[00:23.230 --> 00:24.110]  Can we have the lights back?
[00:24.390 --> 00:25.870]  Or is that an anathema?
[00:26.150 --> 00:27.390]  Then we can't see the screen.
[00:27.550 --> 00:29.570]  Oh, you want to see the screen, do you?
[00:30.290 --> 00:31.650]  Okay, we can do that.
[00:32.010 --> 00:33.830]  We'll just pretend your heads are all cabbages or something.
[00:35.090 --> 00:47.690]  So, my last talk that I gave here, I talked about the Young Lady's Illustrated Primer, which is the magical technology which educates youth in Neal Stephenson's book, The Diamond Age.
[00:48.370 --> 00:54.250]  It's a book I really love, and one of the things I was talking about is how the technology was really not the solution in that book.
[00:54.330 --> 01:04.410]  If you're looking carefully, the kid who does best is the kid... Sorry if I'm spoilering anybody on this one, but the kid who does best is the kid who has a dedicated teacher working with her very actively through the technology.
[01:04.610 --> 01:13.130]  So, the point there was that people are at least as important, if not more so, to the equation of getting technology into education.
[01:13.870 --> 01:25.890]  So, this time around, what I really wanted to do... I'm going to tell you a little bit about what I've been doing for the two years since, to give you a context of why I'm thinking really hard about this, and why I've brought these two lovely other people onto the panel today.
[01:26.530 --> 01:34.150]  The past two years, I've been working on my dissertation, which I like to say is about stupid on the Internet, and everybody says that's awfully large in the way of a topic.
[01:35.990 --> 01:38.570]  But, there's a very specific pattern that I'm looking at.
[01:39.430 --> 01:40.910]  I'll pull it up really quickly here.
[01:41.050 --> 01:41.750]  This is my dissertation.
[01:43.290 --> 01:44.490]  It's on the Internets.
[01:46.870 --> 01:52.310]  So, for example... I don't remember how my dissertation... No, this is not the right one.
[01:54.410 --> 01:56.630]  Anyway... Oh, you're not getting a screen yet over there?
[01:56.850 --> 01:58.030]  Oh, are you showing this?
[01:58.110 --> 01:59.090]  I thought you just wanted to read it.
[01:59.130 --> 02:00.250]  Oh, I don't need to show it.
[02:00.330 --> 02:02.190]  Are we not in display mode right now?
[02:02.250 --> 02:03.290]  We don't need to be in display mode, actually.
[02:03.430 --> 02:04.350]  You don't need to see this.
[02:04.490 --> 02:04.810]  It's okay.
[02:05.710 --> 02:09.850]  What I was going to say is... So, basically, I was looking at misunderstandings on blog comment threads.
[02:11.610 --> 02:19.570]  And those would be along the lines of... They'd go, for example... Let me actually pull it up.
[02:19.630 --> 02:20.570]  Is it actually showing now?
[02:20.750 --> 02:21.030]  No.
[02:21.210 --> 02:21.370]  No?
[02:21.450 --> 02:21.610]  Okay.
[02:21.710 --> 02:22.490]  I'll let it not show.
[02:22.690 --> 02:28.130]  So, for example, a blogger would write, I went to see Maury Povich's television talk show.
[02:28.630 --> 02:34.050]  Maury came on, and he had everybody get up and dance, and then he said something really stupid to somebody at the end.
[02:34.630 --> 02:40.950]  And then a commenter would show up and say, Dear Maury Povich, I hate to bother you, but my family is very ill.
[02:41.630 --> 02:46.550]  I was hoping we could get on your show and you could do our make a dream come true thing.
[02:46.770 --> 02:54.090]  Or also, for example, a blogger wrote, I had a really hard time cancelling eFacts.
[02:54.190 --> 02:56.110]  Here's how I made it work, eFacts being a fax service.
[02:56.310 --> 02:59.150]  And the commenters came up and said, Please cancel my eFacts service.
[02:59.150 --> 03:00.210]  I don't want it anymore.
[03:00.550 --> 03:01.450]  What's going on here?
[03:01.670 --> 03:07.910]  So, the response to this pattern was usually the blogger or the blogger's regular readers coming up and going, What the crap?
[03:08.330 --> 03:09.510]  I'm not Maury Povich.
[03:09.650 --> 03:12.530]  I can't cancel your eFacts slash AOL slash Google.
[03:12.710 --> 03:14.010]  I don't even know how to cancel Google.
[03:14.230 --> 03:15.490]  Do you want to show this on the screen?
[03:15.650 --> 03:16.210]  Yes, we can.
[03:16.310 --> 03:16.870]  Is it showing now?
[03:17.070 --> 03:19.830]  Well, it's showing, but you'd have to drag it over...
[03:19.830 --> 03:21.170]  Oh, over into the... Okay, it's over there.
[03:22.450 --> 03:22.930]  Over there.
[03:23.110 --> 03:23.430]  Okay.
[03:24.490 --> 03:25.670]  And now, can I see it too?
[03:25.810 --> 03:26.010]  No.
[03:26.310 --> 03:26.910]  We don't have... Okay.
[03:27.690 --> 03:28.370]  Okay, hold on.
[03:28.610 --> 03:29.310]  I can...
[03:30.390 --> 03:31.470]  I gotta mirror this.
[03:31.570 --> 03:31.990]  I know.
[03:32.130 --> 03:32.430]  Thank you.
[03:32.810 --> 03:34.770]  We know how... We know how it works.
[03:34.870 --> 03:35.050]  I know how to use computers.
[03:35.770 --> 03:36.410]  Here we go.
[03:38.090 --> 03:38.730]  Okay, so...
[03:38.730 --> 03:39.770]  And then make that go away.
[03:39.810 --> 03:40.550]  And this is really moot.
[03:40.690 --> 03:40.810]  That's my slides.
[03:40.870 --> 03:41.990]  That is your slides, isn't it?
[03:42.150 --> 03:42.430]  There we go.
[03:42.510 --> 03:42.930]  There we go.
[03:43.410 --> 03:44.210]  This is Jessamyn.
[03:44.430 --> 03:47.490]  She does real good with helping people with technology, and that's why she's here today.
[03:48.470 --> 03:51.350]  So, right, so I was just going to demonstrate some of these comments.
[03:51.350 --> 04:08.010]  So, the response, usually, to this kind of thing would be not just something on the order of, why are you here, or why don't you understand what's going on, but it would be things like, get off the Internet and don't come back.
[04:08.470 --> 04:15.410]  Or, for example, please get a clue, remove your ovaries, and please don't reproduce, because we don't want you in the gene pool.
[04:15.610 --> 04:26.990]  So, as I'm reading through this, you know, you begin to think that the commenters are pretty stupid, but the bloggers and their friends are pretty stupid, too, because in terms of doing, like, good training of people to teach them how to do things right on the Internet,
[04:27.210 --> 04:28.410]  they're not doing it right.
[04:28.570 --> 04:29.850]  Like, they're really being very offensive.
[04:30.010 --> 04:45.650]  So, what I really wanted to talk about today was how best to work with people, especially in schools and libraries, to get your technological goals met, especially if they're in the way of getting open source software in, but just, you know, generally helping people to understand technology better.
[04:45.830 --> 04:51.910]  So, I wanted to sort of frame this by going, if you've been saying to people, remove your ovaries, get off the Internet, and don't come back.
[04:52.050 --> 04:53.030]  It's time to stop.
[04:53.230 --> 04:56.190]  That's great for the Internet, but it doesn't work so well in real life.
[04:56.350 --> 05:00.290]  So, I didn't feel like I had that much to say about this, aside from that.
[05:01.410 --> 05:04.330]  And I do know people who I thought were better at this.
[05:04.810 --> 05:17.630]  Jessamyn West is an editor or a community manager at Metapilter, also the manager of Librarian.net, which has been really active in sort of providing a place for librarians who are interested in technology to gather.
[05:18.230 --> 05:20.850]  She was also... she also did some really neat things with the Patriot Act.
[05:20.970 --> 05:27.250]  If you could tell the story about the great sign, there's a sign she put up in libraries saying, the CIA... was it the CIA or the FBI?
[05:27.410 --> 05:27.610]  The FBI.
[05:27.810 --> 05:29.010]  FBI hasn't visited...
[05:29.010 --> 05:30.010]  It had nothing to do with this panel.
[05:30.150 --> 05:30.630]  That wasn't you?
[05:30.930 --> 05:31.290]  No.
[05:31.390 --> 05:33.430]  But it was so cool that she did this.
[05:33.890 --> 05:36.510]  So, she says, the FBI has not been to this library.
[05:36.690 --> 05:38.210]  Watch for the removal of this sign.
[05:38.390 --> 05:39.910]  Because you're not allowed to say that they've...
[05:39.910 --> 05:41.950]  Because you're not allowed to say that the FBI has been there.
[05:41.950 --> 05:43.490]  So, that's Jessamyn.
[05:43.630 --> 05:46.910]  Jessamyn can talk about getting technology into libraries.
[05:47.710 --> 05:50.790]  Ellen Meyer is sweetness and light personified.
[05:50.950 --> 05:56.310]  She's one of our professors at Teachers College who teaches a technology and school change class from which I learned a great deal.
[05:56.750 --> 06:01.930]  And she may be the person that you send to Albany to get technology into schools.
[06:02.070 --> 06:06.110]  But she also soldered her own computer by hand back in the day to build kit computers.
[06:06.110 --> 06:06.310]  Okay.
[06:06.450 --> 06:06.990]  So, you better respect.
[06:08.230 --> 06:09.250]  Your jokers better respect.
[06:09.470 --> 06:09.810]  Okay.
[06:09.910 --> 06:11.290]  So, I'm just going to let them take over from here.
[06:11.490 --> 06:12.450]  And we'll let Jessamyn go first.
[06:13.630 --> 06:14.890]  That was way too long for me.
[06:15.070 --> 06:15.350]  What?
[06:15.610 --> 06:16.810]  That was way too long for me.
[06:16.930 --> 06:17.370]  That was fine.
[06:17.430 --> 06:17.830]  It was fine.
[06:17.970 --> 06:18.370]  It was fine.
[06:18.530 --> 06:20.250]  I'm going to un-mirror my displays now.
[06:20.690 --> 06:21.570]  Because I have slides.
[06:21.910 --> 06:22.050]  Okay.
[06:23.410 --> 06:25.050]  I'll go see if that's working for you.
[06:25.290 --> 06:25.890]  Thank you.
[06:28.990 --> 06:30.070]  You do not see it.
[06:30.250 --> 06:31.150]  I do see it now.
[06:32.370 --> 06:32.730]  Patience.
[06:32.730 --> 06:33.090]  Patience.
[06:35.610 --> 06:36.090]  Okay.
[06:36.090 --> 06:36.790]  I'm sorry.
[06:36.910 --> 06:38.830]  I'm a short person behind a tall podium.
[06:38.970 --> 06:40.810]  And I can't see a damn thing.
[06:41.030 --> 06:42.930]  So, can people hear me in the back?
[06:42.930 --> 06:43.150]  Okay.
[06:43.970 --> 06:45.410]  My name is Jessamyn West.
[06:45.650 --> 06:46.930]  I'm a librarian.
[06:47.250 --> 06:48.450]  I work in rural Vermont.
[06:48.650 --> 06:50.190]  I run the blog Metafilter.
[06:50.510 --> 06:55.010]  I try to teach librarians how to sensibly use technology.
[06:55.010 --> 07:02.870]  And so, when we talk a lot about technology instruction, a lot of what I mean is not necessarily the, this is how you get your email.
[07:03.150 --> 07:05.710]  Although, I think my main job, well, I'll talk about that in a little bit.
[07:05.890 --> 07:12.850]  But it's how to teach librarians enough about technology to be able to pass down technology know-how to people in their communities.
[07:12.850 --> 07:24.590]  And it's really important because for an awful lot of people who don't know how to use computers, or who don't have access to the Internet at home, which is more people than you would think, often the library is their only source of free or public Internet.
[07:24.590 --> 07:28.330]  And so, it becomes this giant problem because they don't know what the hell they're doing.
[07:28.370 --> 07:32.950]  And they hop on the Internet, like Gus was talking about, and people holler at them.
[07:33.110 --> 07:35.630]  And then they get off the computer and they don't get back on again.
[07:37.530 --> 07:43.370]  And, you know, that has the intended result of the, the Tortures and Pitchforks Brigade.
[07:43.510 --> 07:47.690]  But then when you've got Obama saying, no, we really want you to get online and file your taxes.
[07:47.690 --> 07:51.670]  Or when you've got the Federal Emergency Management Agency being like, well, you've got two choices.
[07:51.670 --> 07:56.570]  Your house is underwater and you can call us on the telephone to file, to get your money.
[07:56.890 --> 07:59.250]  Or you can fill out this form on the Internet.
[07:59.510 --> 08:02.870]  And that's really not a great time to be sitting around going, Internet?
[08:03.930 --> 08:05.870]  So, that's why I think it's important.
[08:06.090 --> 08:10.010]  I'm going to talk a little bit briefly about, um, digital divide's kind of my hobby horse.
[08:10.250 --> 08:22.750]  And I'm going to talk a little bit briefly about why I think it's important and the things you might care about being the community of people who I suspect actually know how to use computers and what your role is possibly moving forward.
[08:22.790 --> 08:28.590]  And why your librarian doesn't seem to know what the hell you're talking about when you show up with your thing and you're like, can I do the...
[08:28.590 --> 08:29.650]  And they're like, what?
[08:30.090 --> 08:32.010]  You're like, your software is terrible, et cetera.
[08:32.250 --> 08:34.510]  So, this is the explanation of that.
[08:34.690 --> 08:37.150]  So, this is my library in the town where I...
[08:37.150 --> 08:38.730]  This is actually a picture of a library, right?
[08:38.850 --> 08:39.730]  Yeah, okay, great.
[08:40.090 --> 08:41.530]  Um, well, I don't know.
[08:42.190 --> 08:42.910]  It's computers.
[08:45.430 --> 08:48.230]  I mean, really, that'll like end kind of any discussion, right?
[08:48.230 --> 08:49.870]  You're like, oh, who can figure out computers?
[08:51.190 --> 08:53.670]  So, I spent a lot of time trying to be like, actually, I can.
[08:53.890 --> 08:54.990]  And lots of people can.
[08:55.230 --> 08:56.430]  So, quit saying that.
[08:56.630 --> 08:58.290]  So, I mostly work with libraries and schools.
[08:58.410 --> 09:01.730]  This is my town library in the town where I live in, in Randolph, Vermont.
[09:01.850 --> 09:02.910]  We've got 4,000 people.
[09:03.090 --> 09:04.050]  This is our library.
[09:04.230 --> 09:10.090]  I work there occasionally teaching email to old people, which is kind of my favorite part of the job.
[09:10.270 --> 09:17.750]  Like, giving somebody their first email account is really kind of a neat thing because they're like, oh my gosh, the Internet is full of people.
[09:17.750 --> 09:19.350]  And you're like, I'm telling you that.
[09:19.730 --> 09:23.030]  But that's really when it becomes real to them, often.
[09:23.310 --> 09:26.510]  Getting them an email account or Googling themself.
[09:26.970 --> 09:28.650]  Good news, bad news on the Google yourself.
[09:30.510 --> 09:33.090]  But I love my job and I love my town library.
[09:33.150 --> 09:34.430]  And I fill in there occasionally.
[09:34.670 --> 09:35.450]  I mostly work...
[09:35.450 --> 09:37.750]  Metafilter's like my real job job, believe it or not.
[09:37.870 --> 09:39.010]  That pays my bills.
[09:39.670 --> 09:42.810]  I work at the local high school teaching email to old people.
[09:42.810 --> 09:48.350]  And then I occasionally work filling in at the library, where they pay me $8 an hour to work as the librarian.
[09:48.550 --> 09:51.090]  Like, I have a degree in librarianship.
[09:51.830 --> 09:54.470]  But that's what you do if you work in rural communities.
[09:54.590 --> 10:06.690]  And so the other people that I work with, it's not that surprising that they're not necessarily people who spend a lot of time working with computers or even sort of being hobby computers.
[10:06.690 --> 10:10.990]  So, good thing I have an Internet job so that I can kind of pay my heating bill.
[10:11.090 --> 10:14.770]  But I live in town and I see a lot of people who are affected by the digital divide.
[10:14.910 --> 10:16.570]  The town I live in, we have Internet.
[10:17.230 --> 10:20.750]  The town next to the town that I live in doesn't really have Internet.
[10:21.190 --> 10:22.290]  Kind of a problem for them.
[10:22.930 --> 10:29.130]  Now, I'm not any kind of like hacker type person, but I actually know how to type words into Google to solve my problems.
[10:29.450 --> 10:39.490]  You know, so if you type jailbreak iPhone into Google and you can read, seriously, you can do the things that you might want to do to own your own stuff.
[10:39.670 --> 10:43.650]  And, you know, I miss the sort of Android hacking on your phone thing, but same kind of thing, right?
[10:43.730 --> 10:52.910]  Like, we live in a blessed time where mostly what we have to do is type, search, and read to solve a lot of our technical problems if we don't know how to do them ourselves.
[10:53.130 --> 10:54.110]  It's amazing.
[10:54.830 --> 10:56.230]  It's jetpack city, right?
[10:56.610 --> 11:00.970]  But that's only true if you understand the type search read situation.
[11:00.970 --> 11:02.150]  So I don't code.
[11:02.470 --> 11:04.770]  I don't... You know, I can write a style sheet.
[11:05.010 --> 11:12.990]  I can, like, mess around in PHP enough to, like, fix my WordPress something or other, but I know how to follow instructions, and I'm not afraid of my technology.
[11:13.510 --> 11:15.490]  So I'm like, uh, jailbreak the iPhone.
[11:15.510 --> 11:16.170]  Why not?
[11:16.330 --> 11:17.530]  Then I can do the thing.
[11:17.530 --> 11:18.250]  I don't know.
[11:18.890 --> 11:20.910]  And it can't be, like, any worse, right?
[11:21.030 --> 11:21.950]  Like, what am I going to do?
[11:22.050 --> 11:23.590]  Maybe I'll have to buy another one.
[11:23.590 --> 11:29.590]  And so my concern is that people being afraid of messing with their devices is often afraid...
[11:29.590 --> 11:42.090]  They're afraid of money, and they're afraid of feeling stupid because they broke the thing, and then the person who's telling them to take off their ovaries is going to be like, well, I can fix it, but I already told you what's going to solve your problem.
[11:42.490 --> 11:43.390]  Sucks, right?
[11:43.650 --> 11:44.090]  Sucks.
[11:44.790 --> 11:45.890]  So it's all about money.
[11:45.990 --> 11:47.630]  It's all about control, sort of like the digital divide.
[11:47.630 --> 11:49.590]  Um, I spoke at South by Southwest.
[11:49.970 --> 11:53.830]  You know, South by Southwest, kind of geeky SEO douchebag kind of stuff.
[11:54.010 --> 11:54.870]  You've heard of it?
[11:56.990 --> 11:59.990]  So, different crowds, you have to talk about different things, right?
[12:00.150 --> 12:02.910]  Why should the people at South by Southwest care about the digital divide?
[12:02.950 --> 12:06.810]  Well, because there's hot girls on the Internet that maybe you could date if they knew how to use a computer.
[12:09.290 --> 12:10.910]  It's all about marketing, right?
[12:11.110 --> 12:20.310]  And so, um, you know, this is kind of ham-fisted, but seriously, there's a whole bunch more people that you could be interacting with who could help you solve your problems, whatever your problem is.
[12:20.550 --> 12:23.410]  This was my assessment of what the problem was at South by Southwest.
[12:25.490 --> 12:26.390]  It went fine.
[12:26.530 --> 12:27.070]  It went fine.
[12:27.370 --> 12:32.810]  Um, so, uh, people don't really have broadband options, and so we're talking about money.
[12:32.930 --> 12:33.890]  Again, really, right?
[12:33.990 --> 12:37.690]  You want to make money selling your SEO douchebag stuff to people in my town.
[12:37.810 --> 12:39.170]  You can't do it until they get on the Internet.
[12:39.970 --> 12:43.090]  Um, talking about broadband real quick, this is like my heavy slide.
[12:43.090 --> 12:46.310]  Um, 35% of, uh, people in the U.S. don't have broadband at home.
[12:47.790 --> 12:48.810]  35%, that's huge.
[12:48.970 --> 12:49.630]  It's huge.
[12:50.090 --> 12:50.750]  It's huge.
[12:51.370 --> 12:52.170]  35%, huge.
[12:52.790 --> 12:55.350]  Uh, 22% of Americans don't use the Internet at all.
[12:56.530 --> 12:58.170]  Let that sink in for a second.
[12:58.590 --> 13:02.870]  Like, I don't use the Internet when I'm sleeping, and, like, that's it, right?
[13:03.070 --> 13:07.710]  I don't take my phone into the shower, but I kind of think it might be cool if I could, right?
[13:07.710 --> 13:17.990]  Um, so 22% of Americans do not understand the joy of rolling over in the middle of the night to Google something because you had a dream, and you're wondering if you know what...
[13:18.670 --> 13:31.490]  Um, people think, people really think that the Internet problem is that all, you know, it's old people, they don't know how to use computers, then they'll die, and then our generation of people who knows how to use computers, because we're all smart, that,
[13:31.910 --> 13:33.930]  um, is gonna solve the problem.
[13:34.130 --> 13:35.230]  And that's actually not true.
[13:35.370 --> 13:49.370]  Especially in New York, you've got a lot of low-income, especially immigrant populations, where people come into America, they don't have money, they don't get on the Internet, and once they learn the stuff, they migrate out of those, uh, sort of low-bandwidth,
[13:49.370 --> 13:52.470]  uh, populations and are replaced by new people.
[13:52.490 --> 13:57.630]  And there's this constant churn of low-level tech literacy that never changes.
[13:57.630 --> 14:06.510]  At least where I live in rural Vermont, it is, like, older people are dying off and replaced by kids who learn at least a little bit about computers in school.
[14:06.890 --> 14:21.670]  Um, and one of the things that we're learning is the people who are offline, see my slide, I don't have to read it to you, you can read, um, it's, uh, people who didn't go to high school, it's, uh, Hispanic people, it's broke people, it's, uh, older people,
[14:21.950 --> 14:23.730]  yes, and it's rural people.
[14:23.850 --> 14:25.090]  No surprise, really.
[14:25.310 --> 14:32.730]  But one of the things that we're finding is, it's also, the people who don't have broadband are also the people who are doing less online in the first place.
[14:33.230 --> 14:38.250]  You know, disabled people have less access to broadband, and even when they get online, they're doing less.
[14:38.690 --> 14:39.690]  That's kind of a thing.
[14:39.950 --> 14:41.510]  Everybody's like, well, what about your cell phone?
[14:41.590 --> 14:45.450]  You've got your beep, beep, beep, and it does the beep stuff and the thing.
[14:45.870 --> 14:48.990]  And that's great if you have cell service where you live.
[14:49.050 --> 14:50.710]  And, uh, we only kind of do.
[14:51.330 --> 14:52.690]  So that's a thing, right?
[14:52.910 --> 14:57.030]  Politicians make us a lot of promises and point to Farmer Bob, and they're like, we're getting him on the Internet.
[14:57.190 --> 14:57.830]  And I'm like, when?
[14:58.270 --> 15:00.390]  Because he's not online right now, and it's a thing.
[15:01.430 --> 15:06.050]  So, um, we're looking at rural stuff, like I said.
[15:06.230 --> 15:07.650]  This is what you've got in New York.
[15:07.970 --> 15:12.230]  This is the broadband penetration, and this is like New York City households.
[15:14.090 --> 15:16.690]  This is who had broadband in 2006.
[15:17.050 --> 15:22.190]  This is how many people they think will have it by 2012, which, as you know, is not now.
[15:22.190 --> 15:22.930]  It's later.
[15:23.110 --> 15:26.290]  And they're still showing that 20% two years from now.
[15:26.530 --> 15:28.970]  So urban areas, you get the churn, like I've said.
[15:29.170 --> 15:40.130]  You also get a lot of, um, people living in New York, uh, in, uh, uh, New York City Housing Authority, housing, where you find that, um, many fewer people have broadband.
[15:40.270 --> 15:43.130]  25% of people that live in public housing in New York have broadband.
[15:43.690 --> 15:48.550]  And, uh, this drops to 5% of people in public housing who are over 65 years of age.
[15:49.090 --> 15:50.570]  And, uh, you know, they got electricity.
[15:51.970 --> 15:53.450]  They're in public housing.
[15:53.810 --> 15:58.650]  And yet, for some reason, broadband access is not seen as something these people require.
[15:58.730 --> 16:02.350]  It's seen as something they can pay for if they have any money and they don't have any money.
[16:02.770 --> 16:04.550]  So, uh, moving on.
[16:04.690 --> 16:06.590]  This is another tiny library where I live.
[16:06.750 --> 16:07.830]  Let's bring it back to libraries.
[16:08.270 --> 16:15.870]  Uh, 71% of libraries in the U.S., people in the U.S., libraries in the U.S., report they're the only source of free access to computers and the Internet in their communities.
[16:16.610 --> 16:17.010]  71%.
[16:17.010 --> 16:17.610]  It's crazy.
[16:17.810 --> 16:18.250]  It's crazy.
[16:18.410 --> 16:20.310]  So, if you're broke, you're going to the library.
[16:20.490 --> 16:23.070]  So, this is Washington, Vermont, population a thousand.
[16:23.370 --> 16:28.890]  I was briefly famous on the Internet when I went to Washington, Vermont and installed Ubuntu on their computers.
[16:29.490 --> 16:30.890]  Maybe you saw that YouTube video.
[16:31.030 --> 16:31.590]  And that was me.
[16:31.850 --> 16:36.650]  Uh, installing Ubuntu and everyone's like, oh my god, it's a girl installing an open source operating system.
[16:36.790 --> 16:38.050]  Let's lose our minds.
[16:38.610 --> 16:44.530]  And, um, but very briefly, you know, a bunch of stuff happened, which was cool.
[16:44.690 --> 16:46.410]  And then people were like, hey, what happened, Jessamyn?
[16:46.510 --> 16:46.930]  How'd that go?
[16:47.050 --> 16:59.350]  And I was like, well, the librarian got a divorce from her husband, and then the basement flooded, and then she lost the root password, and we had to reinstall, and I think they just bought XP at the end of it.
[16:59.470 --> 17:00.130]  Sad story.
[17:00.270 --> 17:06.950]  Ubuntu's really great, and I really wish they'd stayed with it, but I can't live in the library to keep, uh, to keep their system running.
[17:07.190 --> 17:13.090]  Now, something else you might not know about libraries is that, uh, we buy the worst software in the world.
[17:16.500 --> 17:18.520]  Am I, am I right?
[17:18.840 --> 17:19.280]  Okay.
[17:19.540 --> 17:28.200]  We buy the worst software in the world, other than maybe, um, health, uh, insurance people, but they've got laws mandating the stuff that they can or can't sell.
[17:28.360 --> 17:36.660]  So, other than payroll and benefits, in the library, one of our largest expenses is licensing fees for bad software and terrible interfaces to proprietary content.
[17:37.360 --> 17:37.800]  Sorry.
[17:38.920 --> 17:41.960]  Um, this is currently available software.
[17:42.060 --> 17:42.920]  You can buy this right now.
[17:43.920 --> 17:46.140]  Um, is this like Windows 3.1?
[17:47.000 --> 17:48.800]  Seriously, this is Windows 3.1, isn't it?
[17:48.880 --> 17:49.640]  It is, I think.
[17:49.920 --> 17:59.080]  Um, whole industries have sprung up, um, selling something called the discovery layer, which basically puts a nice front end on crappy backend software.
[17:59.240 --> 18:04.580]  When you're thinking about things you can do, think about the discovery layer and how to tell somebody that you know how to build one.
[18:04.960 --> 18:12.460]  Um, we, I don't know if anybody's tried downloadable audio books lately, um, but OverDrive is the worst product in the world.
[18:12.880 --> 18:26.400]  Um, it makes people hate content, it makes people hate computers, and, um, it makes people learn all about digital rights management and, um, why it stands between them and enjoying anything.
[18:26.840 --> 18:38.600]  Um, so part of this problem is that the people who are buying these digital products, which is my colleagues, um, with public money, which is yours, um, actually, oh, I think there's a second step to this slide.
[18:39.000 --> 18:41.660]  Um, they actually don't even know what...
[18:43.140 --> 18:45.040]  What good... This is not my comic.
[18:45.240 --> 18:46.980]  This comic is my favorite comic, though.
[18:47.060 --> 18:50.640]  I, I look at it every morning when I get up and I say, Jessamyn, you've got to do better than this.
[18:51.160 --> 19:01.520]  Um, who don't even know what good design or awesome-looking software looks like are making big decisions about e-books, million-dollar software contracts with tell... people who tell them that this is the future of e-books.
[19:02.160 --> 19:10.440]  So, we can do better, their patrons don't know any better, um, or they're like us and they're just getting our free content on BitTorrent and we gave up on the library a long time ago.
[19:10.820 --> 19:11.520]  It's a problem.
[19:11.980 --> 19:16.160]  Uh, so the trick is to have the people with the good ideas stick around to create and implement them.
[19:16.800 --> 19:22.040]  Step 19 is give up on stupid library, for those of you who may not be following along, uh, at home.
[19:22.700 --> 19:25.240]  However, we've got a whole bunch of awesome tools, really.
[19:25.460 --> 19:26.500]  This is, uh, Evergreen.
[19:26.680 --> 19:29.040]  It's an OPAC online public access catalog.
[19:29.280 --> 19:29.880]  It's open source.
[19:30.040 --> 19:36.220]  The state of Georgia decided to build their own software because all the other software products sucked and they created this.
[19:36.380 --> 19:38.800]  Every public library in the state of Georgia uses it.
[19:38.900 --> 19:46.400]  It's maintained by a local company in Georgia by Georgia coders and the code is open and so anybody else can take it and use it to run in their own library.
[19:46.840 --> 19:47.220]  Hot shit.
[19:47.520 --> 19:47.980]  It's really cool.
[19:48.360 --> 19:52.880]  Um, there's open source online catalogs like Koha, the entire open library project.
[19:52.880 --> 19:54.460]  If you've seen it, it's online.
[19:54.640 --> 19:55.760]  They want a page for every book.
[19:55.880 --> 19:56.300]  Really nice.
[19:56.380 --> 19:57.280]  All their code is open.
[19:57.640 --> 19:58.580]  Their flip book product.
[19:58.740 --> 19:59.960]  You can run it on your own computer.
[20:00.120 --> 20:00.480]  It's sweet.
[20:00.840 --> 20:02.640]  Firefox has a million zillion add-ons.
[20:02.740 --> 20:04.200]  You want to think about something else you can do?
[20:04.300 --> 20:06.920]  Write some nice add-ons that help your library do things.
[20:07.120 --> 20:08.740]  There are some really nice ones out there.
[20:08.740 --> 20:10.680]  And open office, which I love.
[20:10.880 --> 20:11.860]  Um, there's Ubuntu.
[20:11.960 --> 20:12.520]  There's Kbuntu.
[20:12.700 --> 20:13.340]  There's Edubuntu.
[20:13.480 --> 20:15.000]  There's all the flavors of Linux.
[20:15.220 --> 20:22.240]  All of those are, you know, free like free, free like beer, free like the librarians, like free like a support contract.
[20:22.640 --> 20:23.420]  And I'm like, eh.
[20:23.900 --> 20:26.280]  So it's a really great time to be a librarian.
[20:26.280 --> 20:31.560]  And if the librarian is selling these ideas, people in the library will buy them.
[20:31.760 --> 20:36.320]  The problem is we're selling people stuff like OverDrive and they're learning to not trust us.
[20:36.400 --> 20:37.420]  And it's a thing.
[20:37.880 --> 20:46.980]  Um, so, you know, wrapping mostly up actually, um, I went to a great conference in Vermont, which was called the Open Source and Education Conference.
[20:47.300 --> 20:52.940]  And I saw some school technologists who were getting up and doing show and tell and, um, how to do more with less.
[20:53.060 --> 20:53.980]  Cause we're all broke, right?
[20:54.120 --> 20:54.860]  Like we're all broke.
[20:55.020 --> 20:58.520]  And it would really be nice to spend a little less money on some tools that were awesome.
[20:58.760 --> 21:04.740]  And I saw this guy get up and do this like presentation about how he ran the entire school media system.
[21:04.840 --> 21:06.500]  These guys are all like technologists, right?
[21:06.600 --> 21:07.740]  You ask them what their job is.
[21:07.740 --> 21:08.760]  They're like, I'm a technologist.
[21:09.040 --> 21:09.760]  Is that your email?
[21:09.960 --> 21:10.620]  Do you have to get that?
[21:11.440 --> 21:11.440]  Um,
[21:14.580 --> 21:15.520]  maybe that's important.
[21:16.120 --> 21:20.460]  Um, he got his whole school media center up and running with myth TV.
[21:21.640 --> 21:23.680]  Like, like myth TV is some hot shit.
[21:23.820 --> 21:30.420]  And like, he's running it at the school media center, recording content, making it playable all through the school.
[21:30.520 --> 21:35.920]  And the most important thing he could say to the principal, to the superintendent, to the blah, blah, blah is, it's okay.
[21:36.040 --> 21:36.380]  It's legal.
[21:36.920 --> 21:43.360]  Cause it really was all the stuff that he was doing was and how great for his students and how great that he could share it with all of us.
[21:43.460 --> 21:47.880]  And we could just like put the stuff on our computers and, uh, run it in all of our schools.
[21:48.180 --> 21:50.140]  That's what we need more of.
[21:50.500 --> 21:52.340]  Like smart people being like, it's okay.
[21:52.440 --> 21:55.920]  It's legal who aren't me who uses words like sucks.
[21:56.100 --> 21:57.560]  And then people stop listening to me.
[21:57.960 --> 22:02.160]  Um, so try this kind of stuff, make a dopey video about it.
[22:02.480 --> 22:11.280]  10 points extra, if you're a girl and tell your friends thing we want to avoid, you know, the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that comes from big business.
[22:11.280 --> 22:15.340]  People who will tell you that open source is full of viruses, which makes absolutely no sense at all.
[22:15.660 --> 22:23.840]  Uh, lack of tech experience from staff, fear of the unknown and the fear of the unknown, the really big deal is it means we stick with what we know, even if we hate it.
[22:24.200 --> 22:37.300]  And that's where the digital divide and hacker culture fight because one of the things about wanting to mess with things is being able to explore something new, look at something bad and say, maybe we can improve this.
[22:37.680 --> 22:44.940]  And especially the operating systems that we love to hate and the ones that we get fat grants for from the Gates Technology Foundation.
[22:45.480 --> 22:52.680]  And since we're in the free, the only free Internet game in town, we're creating this culture to pass on to the people that are learning how to do these tools.
[22:52.940 --> 23:00.260]  And so tweaking, even being able to do this low level stuff requires some level of tech literacy, even if it's just to say we'll try this.
[23:00.600 --> 23:03.200]  And we have to be willing to mess around.
[23:03.240 --> 23:07.320]  You guys saw this when AP was like, oh, you can pay us to quote our content.
[23:07.500 --> 23:10.100]  And we have this crazy nonsense thing.
[23:10.220 --> 23:23.380]  If we want to get people to the point where they understand the necessity of the freedom to mess around with stuff, freedom to tinker, to quote one of my favorite blogs, to challenge DRM, to buy smarter software, to create our own tools, to pass the culture on,
[23:24.020 --> 23:26.220]  you know, I've given you a couple what not to do ideas.
[23:26.460 --> 23:27.560]  Oh, and this is kind of great.
[23:27.700 --> 23:29.460]  Does that fade into the better comic?
[23:32.100 --> 23:34.920]  Sensationalist bullshit is really my favorite part of this whole thing.
[23:35.680 --> 23:37.800]  I'm really sorry about the eat a dick Helvetica.
[23:38.000 --> 23:39.980]  I really was hoping to keep this a family show.
[23:39.980 --> 23:43.740]  Um, you can come back to this later.
[23:44.120 --> 23:50.440]  Um, but here's my, here's my bullet point slides for the end, and then I'm gonna, I'm gonna pass it on.
[23:50.640 --> 23:56.520]  But the difference between making something look simple and telling somebody it's easy is really a world apart.
[23:56.700 --> 24:04.840]  I don't use the word easy anymore, even though we've got those stupid, that was easy buttons that we get for free from Staples, because it makes people feel they're stupid if they can't figure it out.
[24:05.580 --> 24:16.600]  Encouraging people to get involved in open source software, accepting that it's maybe not going to be the perfect solution, but the 20% broken one way may be better than 20% broken the Microsoft Vista way.
[24:17.140 --> 24:17.480]  Maybe.
[24:17.960 --> 24:23.680]  Um, but understanding the entire system, and this is my last bullet point that I felt like I needed to explain.
[24:24.200 --> 24:26.760]  Um, enjoying yourself, obviously, and, uh, brushing your teeth.
[24:27.300 --> 24:38.000]  I don't know about you guys, but we've got some open source fanatics in my town who show up at the library and are kind of like big and sweaty and a little smelly and they stand a little too close to you and they holler.
[24:38.700 --> 24:48.060]  And unfortunately, they've lost the war before they started the battle because the librarians, who are known for being a little bit more standoffish and whatever, kind of freak out.
[24:48.360 --> 25:01.580]  And so, you know, being somebody who can be like, look, I'm going to walk the talk and hi, thank you, pleased to meet you, you know, even though in a lot of cases it's just this weird etiquette dance can really help people accept your subversive message.
[25:01.920 --> 25:03.440]  Brushing your teeth is really important.
[25:03.580 --> 25:04.180]  Surprise, surprise.
[25:04.400 --> 25:06.440]  And you know, it's good for your gums later in life.
[25:08.360 --> 25:20.980]  So figuring out how to make genuine options for people include how to help them solve problems, how to give them genuine options, meaning stuff that solves a problem for them, not stuff that solves a problem for you, helping them feel competent, not stupid,
[25:22.660 --> 25:24.160]  and supported, generally speaking.
[25:24.400 --> 25:28.320]  And so, you know, summary, more yeas, fewer you're doing it wrongs.
[25:28.360 --> 25:32.920]  And then she's going to talk about some stuff specifically about what we're doing in schools.
[25:33.360 --> 25:33.720]  Thanks.
[25:49.840 --> 25:50.200]  Sure.
[25:50.200 --> 25:51.540]  Are we going to be on two different sides?
[25:51.700 --> 25:52.340]  You can sit next to me.
[25:52.500 --> 25:53.460]  I can be here.
[25:53.560 --> 25:55.980]  We'll be like, you know, we'll holler across the podium.
[25:55.980 --> 25:56.820]  So click on that.
[25:56.960 --> 25:58.100]  Access of Education.
[26:00.320 --> 26:01.000]  Down here.
[26:02.540 --> 26:03.620]  Oh, I did that.
[26:04.020 --> 26:05.080]  You've got to click it on again.
[26:05.960 --> 26:06.760]  And I can open it.
[26:06.820 --> 26:07.620]  And then go to Displace.
[26:08.040 --> 26:08.180]  Yep.
[26:09.540 --> 26:10.780]  And then click on Detect.
[26:12.360 --> 26:13.560]  And it should be good to go.
[26:14.140 --> 26:14.480]  Yay!
[26:14.740 --> 26:15.500]  It appears to be working.
[26:15.800 --> 26:15.800]  Woo-hoo!
[26:16.980 --> 26:18.160]  Did it... it worked?
[26:18.720 --> 26:19.180]  How do you know?
[26:19.240 --> 26:19.740]  Pretty complicated.
[26:20.160 --> 26:20.920]  What do you know?
[26:24.490 --> 26:26.970]  Well, it's impossible to see anyone, so I'm going to be...
[26:28.150 --> 26:30.530]  Doing the best I can, talking to the dark here.
[26:32.170 --> 26:35.730]  Gus gave me the impossible task of trying to explain the schools to you all.
[26:36.170 --> 26:38.210]  I know some of you want to be more involved.
[26:38.330 --> 26:39.670]  Some of you probably are involved.
[26:39.830 --> 26:45.910]  But one of the things that's really important to understand is how hard it is for school folk to do technology.
[26:46.350 --> 26:58.830]  So I thought I'd talk a little bit about some of the constraints that those of us who are committed to doing schools and committed to making the schools a better place for kids by engaging them a little bit more than we currently do, especially by using technology.
[26:58.830 --> 27:03.370]  The things that we're trying to wrestle with so that you can understand how you can help.
[27:03.870 --> 27:18.570]  So here's a slide I'd like to show folks who are in the schools because they tend to forget that technology is really sort of there and taking over and that the next generation is growing up with this stuff in their cribs, you know, everywhere.
[27:19.050 --> 27:21.730]  At the conferences I go to now, the research conferences.
[27:22.090 --> 27:25.610]  In the back row, the moms are sitting and the kids are no longer playing with toys.
[27:25.610 --> 27:26.810]  They're playing with the iPhones.
[27:27.670 --> 27:28.510]  It's a switch.
[27:28.930 --> 27:32.750]  And educators just maybe aren't thinking about it as much as we need to be.
[27:34.030 --> 27:37.030]  This is a little academic, but I thought it worth sharing.
[27:38.450 --> 27:46.210]  By way of helping you understand how hard it has been for educators to sort of figure out where we have been and where we suddenly are.
[27:47.710 --> 27:55.710]  This Lauren Resnick compared the 1920s knowledge, competent performance, instruction learning, and aptitude intelligence with where we are now.
[27:56.010 --> 27:59.990]  So if you follow along under knowledge, back in the day, there were very few sources.
[28:00.350 --> 28:02.330]  There was, you know, one authoritative text.
[28:02.470 --> 28:04.630]  There were just a few people who knew the whole field.
[28:06.490 --> 28:07.370]  Now, everybody.
[28:07.590 --> 28:09.350]  You can... there are multiple sources.
[28:09.490 --> 28:11.530]  And there's really not one authoritative text.
[28:11.530 --> 28:13.550]  There are a lot of people who are authorities.
[28:14.190 --> 28:17.750]  It used to be bounded and fixed, and now it's constantly changing.
[28:18.090 --> 28:24.790]  Someone told me that science used to be sort of like the, you know, back in the day, we'd put together maps of the United States, and we put all the states in.
[28:25.610 --> 28:31.790]  Science used to be, well, we have, you know, like 47 of the states, and we just need a couple more, and then we'll really have science all down.
[28:32.590 --> 28:36.530]  It's no longer perceived as a puzzle that you have to fill in a few missing pieces.
[28:36.530 --> 28:37.350]  It's changing.
[28:37.530 --> 28:38.030]  It's evolving.
[28:39.330 --> 28:43.270]  That's something, if you're an educator, that's difficult to get your head around.
[28:44.190 --> 28:46.910]  Competent performance used to be for just individuals.
[28:47.310 --> 28:50.230]  Now it's how do we distribute that competence?
[28:50.390 --> 28:51.590]  How are the groups working together?
[28:52.230 --> 28:56.690]  It used to be if you could repeat the multiplication table really, really fast, you'd be good.
[28:57.070 --> 28:59.230]  But now you're asked to explain and interpret.
[28:59.430 --> 29:00.710]  Those are the skills that we need.
[29:01.410 --> 29:03.450]  And my favorite, aptitude and intelligence.
[29:03.750 --> 29:09.110]  We used to say, there are just a few that are really smart, and everybody else, well, they'll do other things.
[29:09.350 --> 29:14.450]  But now we know that everybody is capable, and we have to figure out a way to reach everyone.
[29:14.870 --> 29:15.790]  That's a challenge.
[29:17.310 --> 29:20.450]  So there are about four really big issues for schools.
[29:20.830 --> 29:22.170]  One is access.
[29:22.430 --> 29:28.350]  If you don't have the technology, you can't do anything with technology issues.
[29:29.190 --> 29:31.650]  Second, the teachers have to be ready to use it.
[29:31.770 --> 29:32.870]  And that's a huge problem.
[29:33.710 --> 29:36.330]  Third, the administrators have to be ready to support it.
[29:36.590 --> 29:42.170]  And finally, we have to be equitable in the way we go about using technology and teaching with it.
[29:42.310 --> 29:43.590]  And that's a huge issue.
[29:45.430 --> 29:51.170]  And overall, there are a few really important contextual problems.
[29:51.470 --> 29:54.150]  One of them is this overwhelming testing pressure.
[29:54.450 --> 30:00.110]  The No Child Left Behind law made testing sort of the primary way that we evaluate schools.
[30:00.550 --> 30:03.030]  High stakes means that the scores go in the newspapers.
[30:03.250 --> 30:05.670]  People buy and sell their homes on the basis of those scores.
[30:06.070 --> 30:06.910]  It's serious.
[30:07.090 --> 30:10.830]  And so people end up thinking about that test first, last, and always.
[30:11.050 --> 30:13.690]  They may want to do an interesting project with the kids and the computers.
[30:13.870 --> 30:17.550]  But if it's not going to bring that test score up, maybe not so much.
[30:18.370 --> 30:19.690]  The budgets are being slashed.
[30:19.810 --> 30:20.790]  Everybody's reading those headlines.
[30:21.310 --> 30:27.510]  But I think a really important one is that educators, by and large, are not sure why we should be using technology.
[30:27.750 --> 30:29.550]  They know it's a 21st century already.
[30:29.670 --> 30:30.750]  They know they have one at home.
[30:30.910 --> 30:34.970]  But how it's really helpful in the school classroom, it's not so clear.
[30:36.910 --> 30:38.230]  So, technology access.
[30:38.670 --> 30:41.030]  We don't have enough systems people in the schools.
[30:41.230 --> 30:50.310]  And the systems people need to be more knowledgeable about how to really help educators in terms of access and in terms of getting teachers involved.
[30:51.570 --> 30:53.910]  Specifically, there's a group of people that we desperately need.
[30:54.010 --> 30:55.790]  And those are the technology specialists.
[30:56.130 --> 31:04.490]  People who can go and work with teachers in classrooms and get them excited and support them when they get in trouble and they've got 32 Russell's kids and they need to work on a problem.
[31:04.590 --> 31:07.250]  But they also need to keep those kids occupied.
[31:07.930 --> 31:11.510]  And there's that huge issue of what's in that classroom.
[31:11.910 --> 31:14.390]  Should we be having carts of lots of computers?
[31:14.530 --> 31:18.750]  Should we be having labs where everybody gets up and walks over to a lab and sits?
[31:18.970 --> 31:21.610]  Or should everybody have three or four computers in the classroom?
[31:21.650 --> 31:22.550]  It's another issue.
[31:22.750 --> 31:27.050]  If you go to any school, you'll find any number of these configurations.
[31:27.090 --> 31:29.310]  And nobody's really sure what the right answer is.
[31:31.590 --> 31:33.930]  I've got a couple of charts in here that I think are interesting.
[31:35.370 --> 31:37.930]  The ratio of... we're getting more and more computers.
[31:38.110 --> 31:41.370]  So if you... I just compared a few things from this big chart.
[31:42.830 --> 31:47.150]  It's a wonderful book on equity and technology that I can show you when I'm done.
[31:48.970 --> 31:52.790]  1998, the ratio was 12.1 computers per kid.
[31:52.970 --> 31:56.550]  And now in 2005, we're almost at about four computers.
[31:57.050 --> 31:58.390]  Or four kids per computer.
[31:58.510 --> 31:59.270]  I said it the opposite way.
[31:59.990 --> 32:01.130]  I wish, right?
[32:01.710 --> 32:05.910]  12 computers back in 1998 and four computers now.
[32:06.230 --> 32:18.610]  But in the poorer communities, where the percentage, the very last one, percentage of kids that are eligible for free or reduced lunch, when there's more than 75% it used to be 16.8.
[32:18.790 --> 32:19.810]  Now it's down to four.
[32:19.930 --> 32:22.910]  So you can see that that's getting more equitable.
[32:23.350 --> 32:27.170]  But I would say it's one thing to have the computers.
[32:27.230 --> 32:29.610]  It's another thing to think about how they're being used.
[32:30.890 --> 32:37.410]  So one of the primary issues is even if you have the equipment, what the teacher allows those children to do.
[32:37.670 --> 32:43.770]  So Folin talks about the fact that we've got three major issues to address whenever we're talking about new ideas in schools.
[32:43.790 --> 32:45.590]  And I find this so true with technology.
[32:45.590 --> 32:48.390]  Teachers have to believe that this is a good idea.
[32:48.650 --> 32:56.830]  And if they don't see the reason to do it and nobody's helping them move along in those beliefs, changing those beliefs, it's going to be really hard to ever get them in there.
[32:57.450 --> 33:04.890]  Secondly, we have to help them use those materials, the technology, the probes, all sorts of really wonderful tools for kids.
[33:04.950 --> 33:06.230]  But we have to help them do that.
[33:06.230 --> 33:08.930]  And when you help teachers do that, guess what?
[33:09.330 --> 33:12.430]  They have to change the way they usually do things in the classroom.
[33:12.550 --> 33:13.930]  And that's really the heaviest lift.
[33:14.410 --> 33:16.430]  Teachers are used to being in front of the class.
[33:16.810 --> 33:18.330]  Now they have to work in groups.
[33:18.410 --> 33:19.530]  They have to have projects.
[33:19.650 --> 33:20.850]  They have to do things differently.
[33:20.850 --> 33:25.190]  And that's really a major shift in terms of the way they go about doing what they're doing.
[33:28.710 --> 33:32.970]  In order to do that, we have to get them more comfortable with technology in general.
[33:33.370 --> 33:36.490]  As I said, some of them do have... well, most people do have it at home.
[33:36.690 --> 33:39.010]  But they... it's one thing to have it in your home.
[33:39.130 --> 33:42.170]  It's another thing to be comfortable with it in terms of the class.
[33:43.210 --> 33:50.230]  We talk a lot in the work we do with schools about introducing project-based learning, which is when you get a big idea and you help kids investigate it.
[33:50.690 --> 33:52.230]  That's something new for teachers, too.
[33:53.170 --> 33:55.450]  And also, the schools need to be a little more flexible.
[33:55.650 --> 33:56.410]  Good luck with that.
[33:56.610 --> 34:03.850]  In terms of maybe a 42-minute period is not enough to do that cool thing that you wanted to do with technology.
[34:03.870 --> 34:05.230]  But how do we add on time?
[34:05.370 --> 34:09.230]  How do we get principals or superintendents to think about switching that up?
[34:09.690 --> 34:15.690]  And when you start doing technology, it's not necessarily going to be sort of the box learning in a particular content area.
[34:15.810 --> 34:19.790]  We need to think about linking the disciplines and going outside of those boxes.
[34:20.130 --> 34:23.870]  And finally, support is desperately needed, sort of at every level.
[34:24.670 --> 34:29.690]  In terms of the classroom, in terms of getting rewarded for doing this extra work.
[34:32.010 --> 34:33.310]  Administrators also have to be ready.
[34:33.350 --> 34:35.450]  And we found this to be one of the major blocks for us.
[34:35.530 --> 34:38.350]  So we get teachers excited and then they go back to their schools.
[34:38.470 --> 34:41.090]  And they don't get very much support from their administrators sometimes.
[34:41.110 --> 34:43.790]  So we've been putting a lot of work into working with principals.
[34:44.090 --> 34:48.570]  They need to realize that they're instructional leaders, which is one of those easy to say, hard to do things.
[34:49.450 --> 34:54.610]  They need to know why it's important for teachers to be using technology and what they should be doing with that technology.
[34:54.610 --> 34:56.710]  They can't be in the front of the classroom.
[34:57.490 --> 35:01.950]  They need to understand how complicated it is and complex it is for teachers to change it up.
[35:02.610 --> 35:05.570]  But they also need policy support to move in that direction.
[35:05.850 --> 35:15.190]  So one of the stories I like to tell is when the kids are working in the classroom, the teacher is a really high-technology-using teacher, and she's got the kids in groups, right, working.
[35:15.230 --> 35:18.010]  And they're so preoccupied, nobody looks up when the principal walks in.
[35:18.450 --> 35:28.530]  He's looking around the room and the teacher finally sees him, because I'm being very stereotypic, him and her, goes over and said, can I help you?
[35:28.590 --> 35:29.570]  Do you need something?
[35:29.670 --> 35:34.170]  And he said, well, I came in to do an observation, but I guess I'll come back when you're really teaching.
[35:35.710 --> 35:41.030]  Really teaching, of course, means when she's in the front of the room, and they're all sitting in their desks.
[35:41.310 --> 35:42.670]  So it's an impactful story.
[35:42.810 --> 35:48.510]  I mean, I've seen it written, but I've been told that story several times by teachers who have come up.
[35:48.610 --> 35:51.090]  So those are things we need to think about changing.
[35:52.830 --> 35:54.130]  Equity is huge.
[35:55.070 --> 35:56.910]  And we were talking, Jess was talking about this.
[35:56.990 --> 35:58.470]  It's really important in schools.
[35:58.850 --> 36:05.370]  In terms of access, in terms of teacher preparation, in terms of being free from testing pressure, guess what?
[36:05.490 --> 36:11.230]  The urban schools are under a lot more testing pressure than the schools that are going to automatically do pretty well in the tests.
[36:11.490 --> 36:20.550]  So if you're in an urban school, there's a heavier, a greater chance that you're going to spend more time getting ready for that test than if you're in a school where the scores are going to be pretty good anyway.
[36:21.290 --> 36:36.130]  So one of the things that I'm very concerned about is that technology was sort of a split in the road, where technology can be either used to what I call technologize, the status quo, more drill, more test prep, more everything faster, more efficient,
[36:36.230 --> 36:36.390]  right?
[36:36.730 --> 36:45.950]  As opposed to using technology in really creative ways to engage kids in what we know, we know the way the brain works is when we engage our children around interesting topics, interesting issues.
[36:46.290 --> 36:55.110]  But to do that means you have to be free from some of that testing pressure and you have to be knowledgeable enough about how technology could and should be used creatively to try to do that stuff.
[36:57.550 --> 37:10.550]  So here is a comparison of some of kids who are being engaged in simulations, applications, really interesting uses of technology, as opposed to drill and practice.
[37:10.830 --> 37:13.490]  And you can see under the simulations and applications.
[37:13.710 --> 37:22.310]  If you're Asian, you're almost four times more likely than if you're African-American to be using simulations and applications.
[37:22.790 --> 37:29.630]  And the same, the opposite almost, it's a three-to-one with drill and practice.
[37:30.010 --> 37:34.630]  So Asian, 27%, and Black, African-American, 52%.
[37:35.270 --> 37:38.430]  That says a lot about how we're using technology in our schools.
[37:40.350 --> 37:41.850]  So, complex challenge.
[37:42.950 --> 37:43.870]  Kids are excited.
[37:44.030 --> 37:44.950]  We've got to catch up with them.
[37:45.170 --> 37:47.870]  But it's not a one, there's no one single factor.
[37:48.010 --> 37:49.790]  It's a number, it's a complex issue.
[37:50.350 --> 37:56.130]  We first need to decide why it's important and get that message across to our teachers, our administrators, our policy makers.
[37:56.550 --> 37:58.870]  The goal needs to be student understanding.
[37:59.090 --> 38:07.650]  If we can focus on student understanding and build projects around that and talk about that rather than covering content, I think we'll be on the right road.
[38:07.650 --> 38:23.350]  And we also need to understand that technology can be used as a catalyst for lowering the resistance to change in general and lowering the resistance to doing things the way we've always done it, to think about doing it in a very new way and a very creative way to engage the kids.
[38:23.590 --> 38:24.390]  Thanks so much.
[38:35.300 --> 38:43.460]  That was a great synopsis of Ellen's technology and school change class, which if you have, especially if you have your employer paying for your education credits, go take the class.
[38:43.460 --> 38:44.000]  It's awesome.
[38:45.040 --> 38:50.960]  So I'm going to sort of try to summarize a little bit and then I realized that I also have a dongle.
[38:51.680 --> 38:54.100]  I realized that I also have one more thing that I wanted to add.
[38:54.940 --> 39:03.060]  I was just sort of struck by how both Ellen and Jessamyn talked about how fear of the unknown is a major thing.
[39:03.220 --> 39:08.660]  So it's not just stupidity, it's actually fear of the unknown and specifically of looking bad.
[39:08.800 --> 39:12.520]  And with teachers especially, and with librarians as well, you've been trained to be an expert.
[39:12.800 --> 39:19.380]  And so the sudden loss of that status is a huge concern and that's something you have to address and be careful about.
[39:20.080 --> 39:23.680]  Ellen didn't actually talk about the fear of legal issues as much as I thought.
[39:23.900 --> 39:31.020]  I went to Ellen a little while ago, and I'll talk about why in a second, saying we need to get... what's the Internet access like in schools?
[39:31.360 --> 39:33.500]  And she's like, what Internet access in schools?
[39:34.080 --> 39:34.740]  Basically, right?
[39:35.340 --> 39:37.880]  Not quite that bad, but it's not great either.
[39:38.600 --> 39:40.500]  And I said, so what are the obstacles?
[39:40.680 --> 39:42.960]  And she said, well, principals are afraid of being sued.
[39:43.420 --> 39:44.480]  And that's basically it.
[39:44.540 --> 39:47.120]  It's not necessarily individual teachers fear.
[39:47.320 --> 39:48.820]  It's not, you know, the wiring or anything like that.
[39:48.940 --> 39:55.780]  It is that the legal obstacle if, you know, somebody... what was the thing that we were talking about at dinner about somebody saw something on the Internet?
[39:56.020 --> 39:57.000]  And Jessamyn, that was you.
[39:57.440 --> 39:58.520]  Oh, that was the public library.
[39:58.520 --> 39:59.500]  There was a public library.
[39:59.640 --> 40:00.320]  Are these microphones on?
[40:00.320 --> 40:01.740]  Can we get the mics for the other two speakers?
[40:02.080 --> 40:02.440]  AV?
[40:04.140 --> 40:05.040]  I can't fix this one.
[40:05.040 --> 40:05.420]  It's good now.
[40:05.640 --> 40:05.940]  Yeah, it's good.
[40:05.940 --> 40:06.000]  Awesome.
[40:06.880 --> 40:07.420]  Oh, yeah.
[40:07.460 --> 40:14.260]  It was just one of those, like, my son saw something in a... on the YouTube at the public library, and now he needs weeks of intensive therapy.
[40:14.600 --> 40:15.340]  Yeah, so that's...
[40:15.340 --> 40:23.900]  It happens to us all the time in the library because we actually do provide the public Internet access that a lot of these kids don't get or don't learn how to use in school.
[40:24.100 --> 40:27.880]  If you haven't seen what goes on the way of video in schools, they have TeacherTube.
[40:28.760 --> 40:29.380]  Don't go.
[40:30.460 --> 40:32.280]  It's really tragically bad.
[40:32.540 --> 40:35.660]  They just the... they'll screw up your aspect ratio on your video.
[40:35.840 --> 40:38.820]  There's no sort of support for community or anything there.
[40:39.000 --> 40:48.100]  Like, the bathos of comments on YouTube is actually preferable to TeacherTube in a lot of ways because you might actually learn something from debating with that guy who wants to insist that Barack Obama is a socialist.
[40:48.380 --> 40:48.540]  So...
[40:48.540 --> 40:49.020]  What is it?
[40:49.480 --> 40:49.780]  It's TeacherTube.
[40:50.260 --> 40:51.540]  It's a couple of folks in Texas.
[40:51.580 --> 40:53.340]  I think it's that they're actually teachers and they run the site.
[40:53.860 --> 40:59.060]  Um, although you do get a lot of... Like, my show has actually gotten a ton of views in schools as a result of this.
[40:59.200 --> 40:59.960]  More than it has on YouTube.
[41:00.520 --> 41:01.320]  Um, but continuing.
[41:01.500 --> 41:03.500]  So yeah, legal issues are a big concern.
[41:03.740 --> 41:05.180]  Um, but yeah, fear of breaking it also.
[41:05.420 --> 41:09.760]  Um, which means a lot more if you're in a place where you can't buy a second iPhone or something like that.
[41:09.920 --> 41:16.400]  Um, so, you know, if you can provide ways for people to break something that's not their own maybe, you know, for example, might be a good way.
[41:16.400 --> 41:16.840]  We do that at the library.
[41:16.980 --> 41:18.120]  You can come break all of our stuff.
[41:18.240 --> 41:18.240]  Yeah.
[41:18.980 --> 41:26.620]  And I don't remember if it was you or Erin, uh, um, Erica, my roommate, um, said that she knows one person who did to demonstrate how hard it is to break a computer.
[41:26.760 --> 41:31.120]  Her first thing she does is put the keyboard down on the chair and sit on it a whole bunch of times.
[41:31.160 --> 41:32.440]  And she's not a lightweight woman either.
[41:33.140 --> 41:34.760]  I do almost that exact same thing.
[41:34.800 --> 41:34.920]  Yeah.
[41:34.940 --> 41:35.820]  But not that.
[41:35.940 --> 41:36.900]  I think we both do that.
[41:37.020 --> 41:38.780]  Yeah, so it's... Like, you can't break this.
[41:39.080 --> 41:41.100]  Yeah, you know, so, so it's demonstrations like that.
[41:41.180 --> 41:43.240]  You know, you sit on the keyboard and look, the computer is still functional.
[41:43.380 --> 41:44.720]  There's a lot of garbage on the screen, but that's okay.
[41:45.420 --> 41:53.900]  Um, the, uh, going, going back to, um, the, uh, question of brushing your teeth again, uh, Sumana here was talking about how that's a user interface issue.
[41:54.040 --> 41:55.520]  And I thought that was a great way of putting it.
[41:55.680 --> 42:05.620]  Um, but, uh, of course, I know a lot of programmers, uh, having worked in UI, don't really care about UI and they consider it somebody else's business and they don't want to think about it because it's fuzzy and there's no science behind it.
[42:05.920 --> 42:06.720]  Well, that's fine.
[42:07.160 --> 42:08.340]  Somebody needs to be doing it.
[42:08.420 --> 42:12.940]  So if you don't want to go to the local haberdasher and get yourself all kitted out, have your friend do it for you.
[42:13.160 --> 42:15.400]  So, um, not the haberdasher, just brush your teeth.
[42:15.700 --> 42:28.300]  Um, anyway, so the last thing that I wanted to say and the reason I was talking to Ellen about, um, getting, uh, kids online in schools is, um, one thing I really found in my dissertation, the huge divide between, uh, what I called natives and strangers,
[42:28.440 --> 42:33.800]  natives being the bloggers and their readers and strangers being the people coming and saying, dear Maury Povich, I need you to find my baby daddy.
[42:34.560 --> 42:37.360]  Um, the big difference was URL use.
[42:37.740 --> 42:41.040]  So the natives were going, why are you here?
[42:41.140 --> 42:42.320]  Look up at the top of the page.
[42:42.420 --> 42:43.020]  Do you see that?
[42:43.140 --> 42:44.680]  It says elsewhere.org.
[42:44.840 --> 42:46.620]  This is not Maury Povich's webpage.
[42:46.820 --> 42:47.400]  Can you see that?
[42:47.640 --> 42:53.060]  Um, and then if you look through what the, the strangers were saying, they clearly didn't see it for a number of reasons.
[42:53.180 --> 42:54.780]  They weren't trying to make sense using the URL.
[42:54.900 --> 43:06.760]  What they were doing, um, if, if you gave them a URL box on the blog comment forum, which everybody did, um, you would get responses as varied as their geographic location, their name again, even though they just put it in before, or their email address again,
[43:06.960 --> 43:13.880]  even though they just put it in, um, the subject line of what they thought they were writing about, or just outright the comment, I don't know what this is, right?
[43:13.940 --> 43:14.620]  Or question marks.
[43:14.800 --> 43:19.980]  So URL is not a term or an idea that, um, is, uh, something that these people grasp.
[43:20.000 --> 43:23.140]  And I'm now really eager to get more people to understand URLs.
[43:23.520 --> 43:35.240]  And I was talking Yahoo to somebody the other day, and, uh, when I was doing a job talk there, and, uh, this guy was saying to me, oh, well, you know, we're not really gonna have, we need to obscure URLs.
[43:35.480 --> 43:37.580]  Nobody, it's a lot of garbage, and it doesn't make any sense.
[43:37.660 --> 43:38.220]  People don't like it.
[43:38.240 --> 43:40.460]  I was like, you work in the tech industry.
[43:40.920 --> 43:44.520]  It's your job to say whether it goes or it stays.
[43:44.540 --> 43:47.280]  And he said, oh, it's the guys down the street at Apple.
[43:47.440 --> 43:52.960]  I was like, yeah, I know you're Yahoo, but like, um, did I just say, oh, okay, that's not being recorded, right?
[43:53.420 --> 44:02.440]  Um, anyway, so, uh, but it's, if you're, if you're in a place to start thinking about whether a URL shows up in technology, think of it this way.
[44:02.920 --> 44:06.300]  The Internet can be TV, or it can be the Internet.
[44:06.840 --> 44:10.440]  When you're watching TV, you don't know that Rupert Murdoch is behind it.
[44:10.740 --> 44:20.720]  But if you have the URL, you can take it to Internet, put it in there, you can teach your friends how to put it in there, and do something that at least gives you a little bit of information right quick about who owns the website.
[44:20.920 --> 44:24.980]  And so what the biases might be, um, you know, who else it's connected to and things like that.
[44:25.100 --> 44:25.540]  You can get my phone number.
[44:25.700 --> 44:26.760]  You can get her phone number.
[44:28.060 --> 44:32.060]  Um, so, yeah, so I'm, I'm on a big URL kick these days.
[44:32.060 --> 44:33.440]  And I hope I can convince you to be that way too.
[44:33.580 --> 44:38.360]  But aside from that, these panels about, um, issues like this always attract a lot of great discussion.
[44:38.440 --> 44:44.160]  So I'd like it if we could bring the lights up and get some comments and discussion, because I know a lot of people in this room care about getting stuff into schools and libraries.
[44:45.780 --> 44:47.540]  A.B., thank you so much.
[44:48.300 --> 44:51.980]  And if you're, if you have questions, please come up to the mic as this gentleman has right here.
[44:52.900 --> 44:53.140]  Here we go.
[44:53.920 --> 44:59.880]  Ladies, it's a pleasure to hear you speak today, especially Jocelyn, who I've, uh, followed your blog for years.
[45:00.280 --> 45:01.460]  So it's been a pleasure.
[45:02.100 --> 45:09.540]  Um, having been a tech guy and in a library and also a teacher, I know exactly the pains you've gone through.
[45:10.060 --> 45:12.060]  So two, two comments and a question.
[45:12.180 --> 45:18.660]  One, I would think that just about everyone in this room, you made the comment about kids growing up with computers.
[45:19.040 --> 45:22.160]  Um, I think everyone in this room grew up with a computer.
[45:22.360 --> 45:23.020]  Show of hands.
[45:24.300 --> 45:24.820]  Yep.
[45:25.660 --> 45:29.600]  Just because the rest of... Sorry.
[45:30.400 --> 45:31.260]  Sorry, grandpa.
[45:31.260 --> 45:33.500]  Um, I think abacus counts.
[45:33.500 --> 45:33.940]  She welted her own.
[45:34.260 --> 45:46.140]  Uh, so just because the rest of society is finally catching on to this weird techie Internet web thing, there, there's other people out there that has also bridged that gap.
[45:46.760 --> 45:52.840]  So being an IT guy in the library, I know exactly the pains of an ILS and everything else.
[45:52.860 --> 45:53.620]  Wait, you work in a library?
[45:53.840 --> 45:54.280]  Used to.
[45:54.480 --> 45:54.800]  Where?
[45:55.500 --> 45:57.100]  Uh, at a government facility.
[45:58.260 --> 46:00.860]  Uh, secret government facility?
[46:01.080 --> 46:01.700]  He's going to kill us now.
[46:02.580 --> 46:03.120]  No.
[46:03.580 --> 46:04.840]  Just keep it moving.
[46:05.000 --> 46:06.260]  I know we're doing too much time.
[46:06.280 --> 46:07.740]  Anyway, past life, we can talk about that another time.
[46:08.200 --> 46:13.640]  Um, I tried to get another job working IT in a library and couldn't.
[46:15.480 --> 46:24.160]  Unfortunately, the librarians have done it to yourselves in regards to requiring a masters of library science for most positions.
[46:24.160 --> 46:26.220]  It's a huge problem in our profession, actually.
[46:26.500 --> 46:36.900]  How can you guys get that change so the rest of folks in this room that love working in a library or would love that geek opportunity working in a library be able to do that?
[46:37.620 --> 46:38.360]  Good question.
[46:40.540 --> 46:43.280]  I think that's a great suggestion, great idea.
[46:43.460 --> 46:54.920]  I mean, the whole reason I get to get paid $8 an hour to work at my library up the street is because, uh, I have this useless master's degree, and, um, um, which I love.
[46:55.040 --> 47:01.840]  But, um, you know, I think a lot of that change has to actually come from other librarians who are techie and who are coders.
[47:02.000 --> 47:02.560]  Hey, Mark.
[47:03.160 --> 47:12.380]  Um, basically being like, the things that you learn in the library world, uh, in library school aren't necessarily the same skill set.
[47:12.520 --> 47:20.300]  In fact, in many ways, they're complementary skill sets, but not overlapping with a lot of what sort of techie coder people bring up.
[47:20.400 --> 47:33.320]  And I know that, like, there's some places that are really hung up on the master's degree, but I've found that for a lot of places, I mean, granted, I'm in sort of rural America, but man, if you know your way around WordPress, PHP, you can do SQL queries,
[47:33.320 --> 47:42.040]  and you can show up and not insult everybody, um, there's a lot of systems-level stuff that you can do in larger systems.
[47:42.160 --> 47:46.080]  The government may be actually one of the more difficult places to break in, but I do agree.
[47:46.220 --> 47:58.860]  It's like everybody's responsibility in the library world actually to kind of deprofessionalize our professional degree in some way to be able to have people with other professional expertise come in and share the workload, right?
[47:58.960 --> 48:09.540]  It's a weird, arbitrary hurdle, and I would totally agree with you that there's no reason to sort of hold it up for people who aren't going to be, uh, doing the jobs that require that kind of stuff.
[48:09.880 --> 48:09.980]  Cool.
[48:10.640 --> 48:16.640]  Um, just to, uh, if further commenters can limit it to one question as to, in the interest of time, and I think you were the next question.
[48:16.840 --> 48:17.520]  Can we get two?
[48:17.920 --> 48:18.660]  No, no.
[48:18.720 --> 48:20.460]  We don't have that much time left, and I want to be fair.
[48:20.560 --> 48:22.160]  Yeah, Greg's saying five minutes to me, so.
[48:22.400 --> 48:23.140]  Um, okay.
[48:23.440 --> 48:33.440]  I, I just wanted to speak to the digital divide thing, um, because I live in New York City now, and I hear people say that, oh, the digital divide doesn't exist anymore, and there are ways that we're getting around it.
[48:33.720 --> 48:50.080]  But I grew up in rural New England, and, um, when you give the broadband numbers, I think what is a lot of the times out of people's minds when they're talking about rural areas is that, um, where my parents used to live, our dial-up Internet was so slow,
[48:50.240 --> 48:52.200]  I could not log into squirrel mail.
[48:52.600 --> 49:00.520]  Like, the phone lines are so old, and our infrastructure is so bad in a lot of rural areas that it's not just a question of, do you have broadband?
[49:00.520 --> 49:04.260]  It's a question of, how bad is the wiring going to your house?
[49:04.260 --> 49:05.300]  Um, yeah.
[49:05.600 --> 49:23.720]  And I guess, uh, just maybe if that ties into schools at all, and, um, generally, the quality of computers in schools, and will that become a larger and larger issue, now that we actually have the computers there, are they going to be computers that are new enough that they're actually worth using and teaching kids how to use?
[49:23.920 --> 49:33.760]  And not just having them be so old that they get frustrated and give up because it's, like, from the late 90s, and it's running, like, windows, go kill myself with a rock because it's a stone.
[49:35.660 --> 49:36.660]  Please don't do that.
[49:37.060 --> 49:42.020]  Um, the whole inter-broadband mapping is a huge issue for New York.
[49:42.180 --> 49:44.940]  Uh, but you should know that, uh, people are working on it.
[49:45.480 --> 49:59.040]  Uh, there's, I co-chair a, uh, technology policy and practice console for New York that works with the Board of Regents, and, um, they are, there are other people, um, that are working, um, understand, and they really appreciate and understand the whole rural issue.
[49:59.240 --> 50:00.780]  That's, it's a big, big, big problem.
[50:01.420 --> 50:09.020]  Um, the story of, um, or the, the issue of old computers in the schools, it's very real also.
[50:09.180 --> 50:13.520]  And there's, it's not going to find an easy fix because schools are not, they're broke.
[50:13.680 --> 50:20.140]  I mean, well, they're not broke, but the money is not necessarily being spent on updating the technology as the first priority right now.
[50:20.680 --> 50:24.480]  Um, so, yeah, we have, you wouldn't believe the computers that are in some of the schools.
[50:24.800 --> 50:30.640]  And it's also something, but it is, as I was talking about, a matter for policy makers to prioritize also.
[50:30.920 --> 50:37.220]  And to let people know that they should be spending their money on this because it's, it may be a better investment than some other things that they are doing.
[50:37.420 --> 50:39.960]  I've been hassling all of my candidates for governor.
[50:40.200 --> 50:42.220]  We're having our primary in two or three weeks.
[50:42.340 --> 50:46.800]  And I'm like, realistically, realistically, what are you going to do to help get Brookfield on the Internet?
[50:47.140 --> 50:51.460]  And, you know, at least have them know that, like, people who know about this stuff care about this stuff.
[50:51.460 --> 50:54.780]  Um, I'm guessing we probably have time for maybe one or two more questions.
[50:54.940 --> 50:55.320]  I apologize.
[50:55.560 --> 50:56.220]  We'll be out in the hallways.
[50:56.240 --> 50:56.740]  We'll be out in the hallways.
[50:56.820 --> 51:00.620]  And I'm going to suggest, I was going to suggest, actually, since we do have a lot of people in line, and I think that's great.
[51:00.800 --> 51:07.620]  Um, if there's nobody in Morse over in the fourth unscheduled track, you guys might sort of just, um, bivouac over there, um, once we're done here.
[51:07.920 --> 51:08.920]  So, I think you were next.
[51:09.240 --> 51:10.680]  Quick comment, quick plug.
[51:11.120 --> 51:22.900]  Um, if you're at all interested in libraries and education, um, there are plenty of us who are here who are interested in talking to you and getting your help.
[51:23.180 --> 51:29.080]  Um, it's not just, you know, there are a lot of interesting technological problems as well.
[51:29.800 --> 51:35.440]  Um, and it, the, the speakers have really made a very compelling case for why you should be interested.
[51:35.680 --> 51:41.120]  But I'm also here to say, there's plenty of complicated tech problems and interesting ones as well.
[51:41.280 --> 51:51.920]  Mark's got a real job, unlike me, and he often tries to deal with really complicated techie issues by having other people help him out with them, and he's worth talking to, in addition to some of the other library people who are around here.
[51:52.240 --> 51:53.360]  So, so two quick plugs.
[51:53.820 --> 51:56.120]  Code for Lib is a conference that we have every year.
[51:56.680 --> 52:00.040]  Um, next year it's going to be in Bloomington, Indiana.
[52:01.000 --> 52:04.220]  And, uh, on, I know, IU.
[52:04.780 --> 52:04.920]  Woo!
[52:05.460 --> 52:08.680]  Um, and it's... That's home of the Kinsey Institute?
[52:08.960 --> 52:09.660]  Yeah, yeah.
[52:10.080 --> 52:12.040]  And it's, and they've got a VR cave.
[52:12.580 --> 52:17.960]  Um, and, uh, on Sunday we're gonna have, we're hoping to have a librarian and archivist meetup.
[52:18.180 --> 52:23.480]  Um, if you want to find more info, there's a thread on the, uh, HOPE forum that you can get to.
[52:23.660 --> 52:27.060]  It's tinyurl.com slash hopeforlib, L-I-B.
[52:27.960 --> 52:28.300]  Excellent.
[52:28.560 --> 52:28.860]  Thanks, Mark.
[52:29.040 --> 52:32.140]  All right, Gil, get one, we're just gonna get one more comment from the lady over here.
[52:32.520 --> 52:37.200]  I, I just wanted to say I'm one of those people getting, one of those useless library science degrees.
[52:37.740 --> 52:37.880]  Pratt?
[52:38.200 --> 52:38.520]  Yeah.
[52:38.900 --> 52:39.440]  Love you, Pratt.
[52:39.440 --> 52:39.880]  Go Pratt.
[52:40.080 --> 52:41.240]  Yeah, no, no, I'm proud of it.
[52:41.240 --> 52:42.960]  Cool, there's cool stuff going on at Pratt, I have to say.
[52:43.160 --> 52:44.760]  Yeah, no, no, it's not totally useless.
[52:44.880 --> 52:46.920]  But I just, I just had a quick question.
[52:46.920 --> 52:59.720]  I just interned recently at a public library, uh, that was doing its best to provide technology education in class formats, but it was really clear that it, that was not serving the need of people.
[52:59.960 --> 53:02.900]  People were not showing up for the classes, but clearly needed help.
[53:03.000 --> 53:11.180]  And I was wondering if you had the same problem with people self identifying or not self identifying as people who were in need of basic instruction.
[53:11.360 --> 53:12.700]  Well, we have like a sort of a triage mentality.
[53:12.920 --> 53:21.220]  We often don't offer classes in the public library, but we have to have this like intake thing when people come in to try and figure out what they have.
[53:21.340 --> 53:26.560]  I've actually just finished writing a book about the digital divide and doing that exact same stuff, how you talk to people.
[53:26.680 --> 53:29.460]  It's called without a net, librarians bridging the digital divide, whatever.
[53:29.860 --> 53:36.300]  But one of the things is how you assess those people who are coming in, figuring out what they need and figuring out how to serve them.
[53:36.400 --> 53:46.500]  A lot of times we found that pairing up kids who want to get to hang out in the computer room a lot at the same time as they can help answer questions for people sitting around.
[53:46.500 --> 53:56.060]  I do this thing in my school called drop-in time where I sit in a giant lab full of computers and broadband and just hang out there four hours a week and people show up.
[53:56.060 --> 54:00.200]  And we have Wi-Fi and I bring my iPhone and I let people touch it.
[54:00.480 --> 54:04.220]  And, you know, I have my camera and literally people can come in and ask questions.
[54:04.520 --> 54:06.880]  But if they don't ask questions, I don't talk.
[54:07.120 --> 54:08.640]  I just screw around and check my email.
[54:08.840 --> 54:14.860]  So, you know, they have to come to the table with an information need, not just like, show me how this stuff works.
[54:14.880 --> 54:16.880]  Because I'm like, I don't know, what do you want to do with it.
[54:17.080 --> 54:25.880]  But it's really hard and each community has to figure out how to best, uh, you know, interact with the people that are coming in needing stuff.
[54:25.980 --> 54:26.560]  I'm really sorry.
[54:26.680 --> 54:29.300]  We want to be respectful of the people that are coming in after us.
[54:29.420 --> 54:30.260]  So we're going to need to close.
[54:30.380 --> 54:31.520]  But thank you all so much for coming.
[54:31.580 --> 54:33.760]  I'm always so happy to see how many people that are coming up for these books.