[00:00.000 --> 00:00.420]  Good morning.
[00:01.460 --> 00:02.760]  It's afternoon now, isn't it?
[00:03.100 --> 00:03.660]  It is.
[00:04.280 --> 00:07.820]  Okay, well, it's time for your breakfast buffet of low-bit art.
[00:08.820 --> 00:12.880]  My name is Jason Scott, and I'm just going to introduce these two fine gentlemen, part of Zero Day Art.
[00:13.000 --> 00:14.340]  They'll explain everything about it.
[00:14.480 --> 00:16.900]  They are scions of the 8-bit scene.
[00:17.860 --> 00:21.540]  On your right is Jeremiah Johnson, also known as Null Sleep.
[00:22.760 --> 00:26.740]  He's one of the best musicians of his genre in all of time.
[00:26.740 --> 00:27.980]  So you're lucky.
[00:28.180 --> 00:29.100]  You already won.
[00:29.340 --> 00:33.660]  In case you're wondering where you were supposed to go today at HOPE, you already won.
[00:33.840 --> 00:45.160]  But, like the Christmas CD that comes along with the main album, you have no carrier who performs and makes Nintendo do things it was never meant to do.
[00:45.520 --> 00:50.280]  Every time he gets on stage, Miyamoto actually starts to shake a little bit at his desk in Japan.
[00:50.840 --> 00:55.100]  Because he knows that an abomination is about to occur for your entertainment.
[00:55.620 --> 01:02.500]  So, they're going to talk to you a little bit about the project they've decided to take on this year, and the magical things they've done with it.
[01:02.660 --> 01:05.580]  So, please give it up for these two wonderful gentlemen.
[01:06.020 --> 01:07.380]  Null Sleep, no carrier.
[01:08.880 --> 01:09.560]  Thank you.
[01:11.320 --> 01:11.800]  Thanks.
[01:12.900 --> 01:16.420]  And now you know why we asked Jason Scott to introduce us.
[01:18.340 --> 01:23.240]  So, as Jason said, we're going to be talking about this project of ours called Zero Day Art.
[01:23.400 --> 01:25.840]  We started it just about a year ago.
[01:26.760 --> 01:33.440]  And this is a talk that we're doing for you guys here at HOPE called Dead in a Pool of Blood and Millions of Dollars of Net Art.
[01:35.000 --> 01:43.580]  So, let's just talk first about a little about who we are in terms of this project.
[01:43.880 --> 01:52.300]  So, at its heart, what we are is a pirate software group for Internet art and for digital art.
[01:52.300 --> 02:00.080]  So, we thought that, you know, there are groups that pirate everything from movies to TV shows to music to software.
[02:01.300 --> 02:10.780]  Internet art is just another type of software, another type of media that's distributed over the web and over the networks.
[02:10.780 --> 02:32.440]  So, why isn't anyone taking this and making sure that it's spread and isn't sort of subject to these false structures of scarcity that are sometimes imposed on digital works and digital media by outside forces?
[02:32.440 --> 02:46.200]  In most cases, in most cases, we're talking about, for instance, the MPAA when we're talking about movie piracy or software companies themselves enforcing their copyright when software is pirated.
[02:46.400 --> 02:57.700]  In this case, it's sometimes galleries that are trying to take works offline for collectors after they're sold.
[02:57.700 --> 03:06.460]  Or it's arts organizations that are trying to approach the monetization of net art in a certain way.
[03:06.660 --> 03:11.540]  And so, we thought this was an interesting project to explore this idea.
[03:12.740 --> 03:13.220]  Yeah.
[03:13.540 --> 03:17.540]  So, again, we'll talk more about the origin of this term in a moment.
[03:17.740 --> 03:19.000]  But we're known as zero-day art.
[03:19.400 --> 03:21.560]  And our motto is pretty simple.
[03:21.960 --> 03:24.340]  And it's that we put net art back on the net.
[03:25.660 --> 03:36.440]  And, again, to look at this term, zero-day art, and think about where this comes from, we have to look at kind of the history of the scene and also get into exactly what is net art.
[03:36.860 --> 03:39.820]  So, to start, we can really just simply talk about wares.
[03:40.020 --> 03:42.840]  And wares is something that maybe everyone here is familiar with.
[03:43.160 --> 03:50.040]  And it, you know, refers, as Jeremiah said, to works that are copyrighted and distributed without fees or royalties.
[03:50.040 --> 03:58.920]  And wares groups that exist kind of globally are referred to as the wares scene or as, you know, just largely the scene.
[03:59.580 --> 04:01.800]  And this term can be used in a number of ways.
[04:02.440 --> 04:07.040]  One way you could use the term wares is to say something like, I downloaded 10 gigabytes of wares yesterday.
[04:07.040 --> 04:12.820]  This is a very common type, thinking about it as, and used as a noun.
[04:13.200 --> 04:20.240]  But, less often, but also be used as, you know, the new Windows was wares a month before Microsoft officially released it.
[04:20.600 --> 04:23.600]  So, this is a term that if you don't use now, you know how to use it.
[04:23.700 --> 04:25.960]  And you can go forth and do so.
[04:26.340 --> 04:30.040]  And it has a long, and the wares scene has a long, long history.
[04:30.040 --> 04:37.840]  And if you grew up in the 80s and used bulletin boards and then moved on to the Internet, and chances are you've probably been familiar with wares for a long time.
[04:38.620 --> 04:44.400]  And we can trace the origins of the scene, really, you know, back to that time.
[04:45.440 --> 04:57.360]  Yeah, and so, what groups started doing is when they cracked a piece of software and they distributed it, they would start tagging the software with these intro screens.
[04:58.700 --> 05:05.080]  And so, here you see an example of an Activision product that was pirated.
[05:05.400 --> 05:16.460]  And this is the group that is sort of giving their greets and is letting you know that you're able to run the software because they're the ones that were able to crack it.
[05:17.420 --> 05:32.080]  And now, when we talk about wares, the term zero-day and zero-day art is sort of a reference to the time in which it takes from the release date to the release of the pirated version.
[05:32.320 --> 05:53.360]  So, if you are able to get your hands on a copy of a piece of software, or in our case, we're talking about works of net art or digital art, and release it within the same day or before the actual official release date of that work, then you're talking about a zero-day release.
[05:55.640 --> 05:59.560]  So, yeah, I guess you want to pick up from there and continue on with that.
[05:59.760 --> 06:04.040]  Yeah, I think that's pretty much about all we could say about zero-day.
[06:04.180 --> 06:15.560]  So, for this term, if you're unfamiliar with it, when we come up with zero-day art, you know, this was actually a goal that we have achieved, I think, in most of our releases, or tried really hard, including our first one, which we'll talk about more,
[06:16.020 --> 06:21.820]  is that, yeah, so once something releases, we feverishly have to get together to release it within 24 hours.
[06:22.520 --> 06:28.660]  And, you know, primarily, I mean, historically, distribution centers for wearers look something like this.
[06:29.080 --> 06:38.540]  And here you can see that there's just tons of CDs and duplication software, I mean hardware, to get stuff out there.
[06:40.140 --> 06:51.940]  And along with zero-day releases, what we saw here earlier with this Activision screen that Jeremiah was talking about here, there's some things that this kind of evolved, right?
[06:51.940 --> 06:55.540]  At first, you see things that are going to be the hallmark of later crack-tros and intros.
[06:55.680 --> 06:58.480]  You see things like thanks, so they're thanking people, right?
[06:58.520 --> 07:03.500]  You also see people's names mentioned, which would come to be known as greets.
[07:03.720 --> 07:07.360]  And you also have this idea that it's not just Activision bringing this to you.
[07:07.360 --> 07:09.320]  It's actually Activision and the racketeers.
[07:09.560 --> 07:12.400]  So it's actually people that are coming and...
[07:12.400 --> 07:21.120]  It's not just the people that are creating the media or the art or the game, but it's also the people that are cracking it that have a part in bringing this to you.
[07:21.460 --> 07:27.020]  So a crack-tro, you know, is an intro, introduction to a game, like you'd see there.
[07:27.260 --> 07:30.220]  But at the same time, it accompanies a crack.
[07:30.220 --> 07:35.220]  And this just shows who was responsible for it and who brought this to you.
[07:35.320 --> 07:36.160]  You may greet your friends.
[07:36.160 --> 07:38.460]  You might f*ck off to your enemies.
[07:38.900 --> 07:43.100]  And it was really made to impress people and let people know who is responsible.
[07:43.320 --> 07:46.020]  So we can take a look at some crack-tros.
[07:46.200 --> 07:50.600]  One crack-tro here that would have existed back in, I think this is like the 80s.
[08:19.350 --> 08:21.310]  All right, so that is Commodore 64.
[08:21.830 --> 08:25.610]  I don't know how many of you recognize that from the opening notes.
[08:27.510 --> 08:29.430]  But the crack-tros still exists today.
[08:29.590 --> 08:35.150]  So you may have downloaded pirated software at one point and seen an executable that you're probably afraid to click on.
[08:35.510 --> 08:38.370]  And that was accompanied with the wares that you downloaded.
[08:38.570 --> 08:41.890]  And then when you open it up, you realize it's not part of the software, but here's the song.
[08:41.890 --> 08:45.550]  It might be actually accompanying the key generator that came with your software.
[08:45.810 --> 08:50.530]  And all of this has a history going back to crack-tros that happened, you know, in the Commodore and Amiga days.
[08:50.910 --> 08:53.270]  And the scene really kind of spread out from there.
[08:53.550 --> 08:55.950]  And again, this is from Wikipedia article on the scene.
[08:56.530 --> 09:00.970]  So it started out really kind of as, you know, the wares scene, but then people diversified, right?
[09:01.030 --> 09:03.790]  They had people that made music for key gens and for crack-tros.
[09:03.970 --> 09:06.370]  You also had people that would make the visual art.
[09:06.470 --> 09:11.870]  And then eventually, you know, people got more interested in that side of things.
[09:11.870 --> 09:24.510]  And you had this kind of splintering from the wares scene into disparate groups like the demo scene, where people make these little intros and then more and more complex works of art that stand alone.
[09:24.750 --> 09:31.470]  So it's no longer just a piece, a crack that is before a piece of software you downloaded, but it's something you download to watch and to listen.
[09:31.470 --> 09:36.490]  And it's a real-time demonstration of graphics and music.
[09:36.990 --> 09:42.370]  And really, again, to highlight the prowess and the coding ability of the people involved.
[09:42.650 --> 09:45.410]  So there has been this evolution.
[09:45.610 --> 09:46.450]  We can show a quick demo.
[09:46.490 --> 09:48.130]  And this is from years later.
[09:48.150 --> 09:50.950]  And it's much different than the Commodore that we just looked at.
[10:50.200 --> 10:50.740]  All right.
[10:50.880 --> 10:57.340]  So here you can see something that, again, is much more evolved than something that you saw in the Commodore 64.
[10:57.340 --> 11:05.180]  And this is because, again, people aren't just making a quick crack show or intro to accompany the multiple releases in a wares group.
[11:05.300 --> 11:20.560]  But this is something that is maybe demos or months or even years of work that people put together, teams of people, in order to release these type of normally non-interactive but real-time demonstrations of coding ability and artistic skill.
[11:21.400 --> 11:28.520]  And, you know, when we think about what we're doing, most of the net art that we look at kind of has its roots or some people pay homage to this.
[11:28.720 --> 11:32.260]  And this is kind of our background when we talk about Zero Day.
[11:32.260 --> 11:35.920]  And now we're going to move on and talk really about where the art side of things comes in.
[11:35.920 --> 11:36.880]  Yeah.
[11:37.240 --> 11:47.380]  And just adding to that a little bit, this is something that's been interesting to Don and I because of the background that Jason spoke a little bit about.
[11:47.560 --> 11:55.360]  The fact that I'm an electronic musician working with typically old video game hardware, early home computing systems.
[11:55.360 --> 11:59.400]  And Don is a visual artist doing the same thing.
[11:59.700 --> 12:08.380]  And so what our artistic practice is really about is almost a deconstruction of real-time demos.
[12:08.380 --> 12:11.800]  Because I'm creating sort of a soundtrack.
[12:11.800 --> 12:20.080]  And when Don and I perform together, he's creating live visuals that are being played in real-time.
[12:20.080 --> 12:27.740]  Usually from software that he's written himself for the Nintendo Entertainment System or Sega Genesis or other consoles.
[12:28.320 --> 12:41.360]  And so this is something that was interesting to us because it's sort of a continuing evolution of this lineage, this thread that's run through the computer art scene.
[12:41.360 --> 12:53.100]  And so now talking about net art, which is something that's sort of not... it's related in some ways to demo scene culture, but it is definitely a separate thread of its own.
[12:54.340 --> 13:03.460]  This term is really... was first coined in the early to mid-90s for a group of artists that were working at the time.
[13:03.460 --> 13:14.160]  But more generally, it can refer to basically anyone working with the Internet as a medium for their art.
[13:14.300 --> 13:27.480]  So art that is inherently tied into the medium or aware of the medium and the advantages that the system of distribution gives you or the sort of context that it provides for the works.
[13:28.300 --> 13:35.740]  And so we're going to just talk about a few examples of artists that are working with the Internet as a medium.
[13:36.200 --> 13:40.720]  Starting from some of their earlier generation and then moving into more contemporary ones.
[13:42.520 --> 13:46.700]  All right, so I don't know how many of you have seen this, but this is a work from 1998.
[13:47.100 --> 13:50.520]  And it's called Shredder, and it's still online today.
[13:50.660 --> 13:52.280]  And it's something done by Mark Napier.
[13:52.640 --> 13:56.000]  And Shredder... and you can go check it out at potatoland.org.
[13:56.000 --> 14:05.500]  Shredder, the idea here is that, you know, in the 1990s, of course, many of us probably always started experimenting with web technologies.
[14:05.680 --> 14:13.720]  And it was especially important, you know, to understand that the web was open in a way that it is different than some software that you have access to.
[14:13.980 --> 14:16.840]  And that there is source code behind everything that you see.
[14:17.400 --> 14:26.060]  And Shredder is a kind of anti-browser of sorts, where you launch this window, you put in a location, there's also a number of bookmarks.
[14:26.180 --> 14:29.840]  And if you check out some of the bookmarks listed, it definitely speaks to the time that this was released.
[14:29.840 --> 14:33.380]  But, for instance, this screenshot, it still works.
[14:33.760 --> 14:38.680]  And I put in Yahoo, and the output is something like this.
[14:39.120 --> 14:42.140]  So it kind of literally just shreds.
[14:42.140 --> 14:53.280]  And you can see combinations of the images overlaid, as well as some of the HTML, the CSS, and the hyperlinks as well, all on this web page.
[14:53.280 --> 15:01.320]  And you can scroll, and you kind of get the feeling that, you know, you're not really seeing the web page as intended.
[15:01.560 --> 15:08.060]  But it's kind of a mix of the source code and the images and everything that actually makes up the website.
[15:08.300 --> 15:10.260]  So again, this was released back in 1998.
[15:10.600 --> 15:16.200]  And it would be an example of what Jeremiah was talking about as, you know, kind of more classic or net art.
[15:16.200 --> 15:20.140]  And there's another duo named Jody.
[15:20.580 --> 15:23.280]  And this is an installation of theirs.
[15:23.700 --> 15:30.180]  And this is Untitled Game, which was one of 12 variations of the Quake engine that they did.
[15:30.500 --> 15:35.140]  So if you're familiar with the game Quake, they modified it in numerous ways.
[15:35.380 --> 15:39.320]  And this was... some of these were recently shown in New York at the Museum of the Moving Image.
[15:39.740 --> 15:42.600]  And it's kind of interesting to see these.
[15:43.520 --> 15:45.280]  You know, this is one way it could be shown.
[15:45.280 --> 15:47.280]  It was also installed as a series of projections.
[15:48.020 --> 15:50.720]  And some of the games have all of the graphics removed.
[15:50.880 --> 15:57.560]  So all you hear is like the screaming monsters as you navigate through the space blindly, in which you can see how... you can guess how well that would work, right?
[15:57.800 --> 16:03.940]  Other ones have the debug information streaming over top of... over top of all of the graphics.
[16:04.220 --> 16:09.640]  So there's different deconstructions of the game that most people know, but you experience it in different ways.
[16:10.240 --> 16:14.280]  Another one of theirs, which you may or may not recognize here, is Wolfenstein 3D.
[16:14.280 --> 16:17.800]  that is... with all the graphics completely removed.
[16:19.360 --> 16:24.290]  So, you know, they really kind of play with this idea of, you know, games and...
[16:24.960 --> 16:30.460]  but also looking at, you know, kind of bring to light what is behind what you're actually looking at.
[16:31.920 --> 16:36.520]  And then moving on to some of the more contemporary Internet artists.
[16:36.800 --> 16:40.540]  This is an animated GIF by the artist Nicolas Essune.
[16:40.840 --> 16:43.140]  He's a Canadian artist.
[16:43.420 --> 16:48.940]  And most of his works are often presented in animated GIF format.
[16:48.940 --> 16:57.540]  And obviously this is... this is a sort of... a choice of presentation that is very tied to... to the Internet.
[16:57.900 --> 17:01.880]  And the GIF format being such a popular way of displaying moving images.
[17:02.860 --> 17:09.940]  Back even from the sort of early Internet days when Netscape first started adopting its usage.
[17:10.760 --> 17:19.160]  And so many of his works are concerned with landscape and sort of architecture... architectural forms.
[17:19.400 --> 17:24.050]  So he's... he's... this is from a series that he's done called Land Studies, which is...
[17:26.130 --> 17:33.110]  these sort of mountainous pieces of terrain that are intersected by these blocks of color.
[17:33.350 --> 17:41.390]  And he's done... many of these that... where the blocks of color are sort of meant to evoke a very minimalist...
[17:41.390 --> 17:49.610]  structure of housing units or some type of sort of... cyberpunk sort of condominiums.
[17:50.730 --> 17:55.510]  And... and then moving on to Francois Gamma.
[17:55.870 --> 18:00.270]  This is... this is an artist who's based in... in Spain.
[18:01.110 --> 18:05.970]  And his... again, a lot of his work is done in animated GIF format.
[18:06.230 --> 18:09.870]  And he's... he's very concerned with the body.
[18:10.350 --> 18:16.950]  And... the body not just as a sort of physical... the physical bodies that we inhabit.
[18:16.950 --> 18:22.790]  But... bodies as... the avatars that we inhabit in the... in virtual space.
[18:22.970 --> 18:26.730]  And how those two... are at odds with one another.
[18:27.010 --> 18:28.530]  And how they collide with one another.
[18:29.010 --> 18:30.430]  How they're malleable.
[18:31.450 --> 18:34.930]  And... and what this sort of... what this...
[18:36.610 --> 18:43.970]  makes us question about our... our physical bodies as we move into spending more and more time in... in virtual spaces.
[18:44.990 --> 18:48.190]  The next artist is... Michael Manning.
[18:48.350 --> 18:53.110]  He's also... again... working very often with animated GIF format.
[18:53.110 --> 18:57.470]  And so you're... you... you can probably pick up on the trend here.
[18:57.670 --> 19:00.210]  And... as far as contemporary Internet artists.
[19:00.430 --> 19:03.610]  The GIF is... is an incredibly popular format.
[19:04.210 --> 19:08.630]  And... Michael... is... is based here in the United States.
[19:08.990 --> 19:15.350]  And... he... he's very interested in... sort of elements of popular culture.
[19:15.710 --> 19:19.090]  Fashion... corporate brands... things like this.
[19:19.090 --> 19:25.930]  So... we have another work... we're gonna pop out... to show... um... called... My... my spirit is lost... from... Michael.
[19:26.190 --> 19:29.830]  And this is a... a web... a web... browser based work.
[19:32.710 --> 19:33.210]  All right.
[19:34.210 --> 19:35.930]  Not to forgive me... not to forgive us here.
[19:36.070 --> 19:38.290]  The navigation is a little bit hard on the second screen.
[19:38.450 --> 19:39.370]  It's that first...
[19:39.370 --> 19:40.110]  It's the first tab.
[19:40.270 --> 19:40.370]  Yeah.
[19:40.870 --> 19:41.350]  Yeah, you go.
[19:41.670 --> 19:42.270]  There we go.
[19:42.710 --> 19:49.390]  So... in this one... you'll see... uh... this is... a series of... um... of... sort of stock photo images...
[19:49.390 --> 19:55.370]  That he found... and created... um... a sort of... ah... almost like a stream of consciousness.
[19:55.670 --> 20:02.630]  And... um... color based gradient... uh... that... he just sort of... searched through these stock photo sites...
[20:02.630 --> 20:05.110]  And... found things that... tied into one another.
[20:05.290 --> 20:11.870]  And then he created this incredibly long image... um... that you're sort of... able to traverse just by...
[20:11.870 --> 20:17.410]  looking at your browser... and... um... and sort of... the browser becoming the frame for the work.
[20:17.410 --> 20:25.950]  Rather than it being framed and hung on a wall, you're sitting at your computer and you're experiencing this work just in whatever space you're at.
[20:27.070 --> 20:39.410]  So now we're going to move on and Don's going to talk a little bit about the sort of beginnings of Zero Day Art and where we've taken it so far.
[20:40.070 --> 20:40.810]  All right, yeah.
[20:41.010 --> 20:42.810]  So back to Michael Manning, in fact, actually.
[20:43.970 --> 20:51.710]  He had a show that was curated last year at EyeBeam, that's in New York City, in Chelsea, if you're from the area.
[20:52.090 --> 20:55.170]  And this show is called Street Show, The Things Between Us.
[20:55.550 --> 20:56.690]  And do you want to talk a little bit about the difference?
[20:58.810 --> 20:59.250]  Yeah.
[20:59.570 --> 21:08.310]  So the concept for a street show is that... are any of you familiar with USB dead drops?
[21:09.390 --> 21:10.210]  Anyone out there?
[21:10.370 --> 21:11.650]  Yeah, I see some hands.
[21:11.650 --> 21:23.330]  So dead drops are USB sticks that have been embedded in buildings or other physical structures in public spaces.
[21:23.570 --> 21:30.030]  And the idea is that you can go up to these dead drops and there are several places where they're aggregated and mapped.
[21:30.270 --> 21:32.130]  And you can see an example here.
[21:32.250 --> 21:33.650]  This is the one at EyeBeam, I believe.
[21:33.670 --> 21:34.290]  I think so, yeah.
[21:35.230 --> 21:40.230]  And so you can take your laptop up to them, hold your laptop against the wall.
[21:40.350 --> 21:43.330]  You can see what files are on these things, pull them off.
[21:43.470 --> 21:45.330]  Sometimes people leave interesting things there.
[21:45.410 --> 21:47.670]  You can leave interesting things there for other people.
[21:51.030 --> 22:06.110]  So the idea behind the street show that Michael had was... there was this conversation going on at the time about taking works offline so collectors could have them locally when referring to Internet art.
[22:06.110 --> 22:20.270]  And there was a lot of controversy around this idea because when you take a work of Internet art off the Internet, does it cease to have the same power that it did before?
[22:20.550 --> 22:30.390]  And so the idea that he came up with as a sort of critique of this and a way to continue the conversation was to curate this show.
[22:31.030 --> 22:39.170]  Invite a bunch of net artists to create original works specifically for the show and to give him the only copies of those works.
[22:39.450 --> 22:45.190]  And then he went and installed this show on a dead drop and that was the only place that these works existed.
[22:47.190 --> 23:03.330]  So this is something that was a little bit frightening to some of the artists participating because this is something that you put your time into creating a new work and then you're giving the only copy away.
[23:03.630 --> 23:06.910]  And then there are many possibilities of what could happen at that point.
[23:07.110 --> 23:12.330]  Someone could come and basically plug in their computer and just trash all the works.
[23:12.450 --> 23:13.310]  Just delete them.
[23:13.610 --> 23:18.050]  Someone could take all the works off and have the only copies and hoard them for themselves.
[23:18.370 --> 23:30.450]  Someone could go into the source code of some of the works, for example, web-based works, and modify them and then release them as if those were the original works but they're actually modified versions.
[23:31.090 --> 23:39.290]  And so at the time Don was actually a resident at EyeBeam and he's going to pick up from where we went with this.
[23:39.430 --> 23:39.570]  Yeah.
[23:39.790 --> 23:48.370]  So it was interesting because the day that was installed I was working there and I was watching the Twitter feed and there was a lot of people talking about the show.
[23:48.370 --> 23:55.910]  One interesting thing that I don't think Jeremiah mentioned that was actually true is that these, you couldn't get this stuff on the Internet, right?
[23:56.030 --> 23:57.050]  Which was pretty interesting.
[23:57.250 --> 24:02.770]  It was net art and there were net artists that a lot of people know, a lot of people follow, everybody's tweeting about this show.
[24:03.210 --> 24:07.030]  But the only people that have access to these works are people that are physically going to go to EyeBeam.
[24:07.170 --> 24:11.790]  So it's very similar to the way you think of a traditional gallery show where you have to show up.
[24:11.890 --> 24:13.630]  But the strange thing is that it was net art.
[24:13.830 --> 24:15.470]  So yeah, anything could have happened here.
[24:15.470 --> 24:16.270]  It could have been corrupted.
[24:17.590 --> 24:21.130]  People could have simply taken all of the works and there'd be nothing left behind.
[24:21.330 --> 24:24.510]  What actually happened is that we pirated them all.
[24:24.690 --> 24:27.870]  And that was the start of Zero Day Art.
[24:28.050 --> 24:31.930]  So throughout the day we were texting back and forth and talking about what was going on here.
[24:32.170 --> 24:40.470]  And at lunch I went out and hooked my computer up, copied all of the works, got home, and we launched this website.
[24:40.470 --> 24:50.810]  So we had this idea and we talked all day about what we were going to do and then we realized that the best thing to do would be to pirate all this stuff.
[24:50.950 --> 24:52.850]  And we're like, well, what are we going to call this?
[24:52.990 --> 24:58.170]  Well, you know, it's net art and it's Zero Day because the gallery show just launched that day.
[24:58.510 --> 25:05.310]  So we had 24 hours and in this time we gave ourselves a limit of till midnight to figure out a way to do everything.
[25:05.310 --> 25:08.890]  So I think it was like 10.30 at night we got started for some reason.
[25:10.790 --> 25:14.270]  We sort of joked about it at the beginning of the day.
[25:14.450 --> 25:21.990]  And I should also mention I had a sort of personal interest in this because I was one of the artists included in the show.
[25:22.110 --> 25:26.890]  So I really didn't want my work to just disappear after having put the time in on it.
[25:26.890 --> 25:38.830]  And, but we really did feel like this was sort of, we were taking a stance on what, on our, on the conversation that was going on.
[25:38.970 --> 25:46.870]  And we wanted to say like, yes, this is, this is, you know, an interesting way to continue the conversation by having the street show.
[25:47.090 --> 25:48.650]  And this is what we think should happen.
[25:48.810 --> 26:01.870]  We think that these works should be put back online and they should be viewable by the widest audience, um, possible and they shouldn't be, um, their, their sort of power shouldn't be neutered by the fact that they're being taken offline.
[26:02.170 --> 26:02.350]  Yeah.
[26:02.430 --> 26:13.390]  So, um, we joked about it in the morning, uh, saying, yeah, I think Don threw out the term like zero day art and, uh, and saying like, yeah, we should just like pirate, pirate this net art.
[26:13.550 --> 26:14.790]  And we laughed about it.
[26:14.870 --> 26:17.530]  And then like, we were like, well, actually we should do that.
[26:17.650 --> 26:23.030]  And, um, but we both had a lot of stuff going on that day and we didn't get together until the evening.
[26:23.750 --> 26:28.730]  And then we just, yeah, I mean, I, I threw together this, this sort of ASCII art template.
[26:28.910 --> 26:38.390]  We, we pulled, uh, uh, some definitions of zero day and, and, uh, uh, uh, sort of as loose of a definition of art as we could come up with there.
[26:38.830 --> 26:47.830]  And then, um, and then we just, uh, put up the, we, we linked, um, to the torrent file on the pirate bay.
[26:48.270 --> 26:51.290]  Um, you can, yeah, we can go back to the, the keynote.
[26:51.810 --> 26:52.130]  Sure.
[26:52.350 --> 27:00.590]  And yeah, so, um, yeah, so in like an hour and a half, we got the domain name, we got the hosting, we got the website up, we had a Twitter account, and we had a torrent up on the pirate bay.
[27:01.130 --> 27:08.710]  So it was a really busy evening, but, um, you know, by midnight, um, we really didn't know what was gonna happen, but we had everything in place.
[27:08.710 --> 27:17.450]  We started tweeting about it, and the people that had been following the show all day and talking about it and curious about the works now had a place that they could go and get everything.
[27:17.790 --> 27:26.810]  So, you know, um, there is no way of knowing when Michael started this show what was going to happen, but, um, you know, we took it in a way that was unexpected.
[27:26.810 --> 27:29.850]  And, um, this was really the beginnings of zero day art.
[27:30.150 --> 27:38.950]  So, um, one interesting, interesting thing about zero day art is that, like, um, a lot of wares, zero day wares, it ends up on places like the pirate bay eventually.
[27:39.470 --> 27:52.670]  And, um, we've actually had to, um, not consciously, but, um, come up with, uh, very similar, um, roles, um, and have people to help us, just like you might find in the wares scene.
[27:52.870 --> 27:59.230]  So we actually have people that, um, for our various releases, and again, um, you can see our website at zero day art dot net.
[27:59.470 --> 28:07.190]  We've had suppliers, um, and this is a term that, of course, uh, if you're familiar with the wares scene that you've seen maybe in info files before.
[28:07.550 --> 28:17.850]  And again, uh, info files, again, files that accompany pirated software that give you information about maybe how to install, what the serial number is, and general information about the pot, the software.
[28:18.110 --> 28:24.470]  So we have people that supply, and again, suppliers are people that would actually give us, uh, give us the software, in this case, the art.
[28:24.470 --> 28:38.030]  We have rippers as well, because this, um, again, this stuff exists online, so it isn't always the easiest, and, um, to get all of the files off the Internet, um, anywhere from movies to pictures to texts.
[28:38.270 --> 28:41.950]  And we've dealt with various works, um, and in various formats.
[28:41.950 --> 28:44.390]  We also need people to help seed, too.
[28:45.050 --> 28:58.990]  And, um, the seeders, again, in, if you're unfamiliar with BitTorrent, the way BitTorrent works is that you, um, have a file somewhere, up, like, on the Pirate Bay, and you have a torrent file, which is simply, you know, um, and, uh, an index, it is not the file,
[28:59.110 --> 29:06.130]  it is not the information itself, but it's really an index of all the files, and a link to connect you to other people that are seeders and leechers.
[29:06.270 --> 29:07.350]  Over a peer-to-peer network.
[29:07.450 --> 29:08.310]  Over a peer-to-peer network.
[29:08.490 --> 29:16.950]  And the seeders are people that have complete copies of the software and, um, the, uh, yeah, the seeds, and the peers are people that are also, you know, are downloading, right?
[29:17.470 --> 29:21.870]  And, um, and we've had people to actually help us seed this.
[29:21.990 --> 29:24.490]  And, um, we did some very basic work on that first night.
[29:24.630 --> 29:28.690]  One of our friends from across the street was over, and he lives in a different apartment, a different Internet connection.
[29:28.790 --> 29:33.450]  So we used this, uh, utilized the sneaker net to, um, get the data over to him.
[29:33.450 --> 29:39.470]  And the sneaker net, if you're not familiar, is, uh, taking the data and walking it over to someone else.
[29:39.630 --> 29:51.550]  Um, so we, we put this first release of ours on a USB key, and we brought it over to him so that he could help us seed, um, and get this, uh, these files and this show distributed more quickly.
[29:51.730 --> 29:54.410]  Which brings us to, um, how you guys can help.
[29:54.970 --> 29:59.890]  Um, downstairs in the art space on the mezzanine level, we have a kiosk set up.
[30:00.150 --> 30:10.250]  Um, you might have noticed if you've, if you've taken a walk through there, it's a, it's a sort of old CRT monitor displaying NFO files at, um, what?
[30:10.350 --> 30:11.290]  2,400 baud.
[30:11.290 --> 30:12.370]  2,400 baud rate.
[30:12.890 --> 30:16.830]  Um, and these are the NFO files for the releases we've put out so far.
[30:16.930 --> 30:22.570]  And connected to the monitor are two USB, uh, sticks that have all of the releases we've put out so far.
[30:22.710 --> 30:23.050]  Maybe.
[30:23.050 --> 30:33.390]  Uh, yeah, well, they did when we first put the, put the installation there, um, and along with the income, uh, accompanying, uh, torrent files.
[30:33.910 --> 30:45.330]  So if you, uh, were so inclined, you could go, go down there, grab all these, uh, releases, grab the torrent files, and, uh, load them into your, uh, BitTorrent clients and help us seed the releases.
[30:45.930 --> 30:55.970]  Um, we're gonna talk, uh, Don's gonna talk a little bit about, uh, one of our releases, the most recent one, I think, actually, uh, by an artist named Sarah Weiss.
[30:56.150 --> 31:04.410]  And this one was actually, uh, a little bit of a different scenario for why we ended up taking, taking it on, uh, and releasing it through Zero Day Art.
[31:05.010 --> 31:07.770]  All right, yeah, and this is an example of one of the info files that we have.
[31:08.030 --> 31:22.430]  And again, here we see that, um, just like a normal info file, we have the size, the format, the OS, the curator of the show now, which is a little bit different than a traditional where's info file, as well as the location, release name, the date, you know,
[31:22.530 --> 31:25.310]  who packaged it, who supplied it, and then the URL to the show.
[31:25.430 --> 31:28.950]  So we try to give all the inf- information, um, when we release this.
[31:29.210 --> 31:32.750]  And, um, this again, uh, is Sarah's project called Internet Is.
[31:33.350 --> 31:40.790]  And, um, this is an image, um, that is related to the show, and this is really the reason we ended up taking this on.
[31:41.110 --> 31:50.270]  So, um, I guess it's best to show the, show everything first, and then we can, um, talk about some of, uh, the reasons why, uh, we decided to release this.
[31:52.690 --> 31:57.490]  So, we're gonna show here is actually, um, one of our release folders.
[31:57.870 --> 32:03.390]  Um, so what happens, like, if you, if you check out our, um, uh, one of our releases, what you'll see.
[32:03.510 --> 32:19.070]  So again, I'm trying to view from over here, but if you go into this, we have, um, all of our folders, uh, I mean, all of our files in here, and some of them are, um, the info file, uh, we have, um, some JPEGs that were accompanied, accompanied the show,
[32:19.190 --> 32:26.510]  but then in the actual folder itself, we have, uh, a direct link, uh, rip of her website, where the show was hosted.
[32:26.710 --> 32:34.870]  And we try to be faithful to the, um, work that we, we have, uh, that we rip, and that's why we have this index.html, but we also have one with relative links.
[32:35.050 --> 32:41.590]  So the index.html isn't actually gonna work because of where every, all of the, uh, hyperlinks point to the different files.
[32:42.050 --> 32:52.570]  So when we release it, we, in addition to doing a straight rip of the site and, uh, the art that, uh, accompanies it, we also, um, edit the HTML, so that way it can be viewable offline when you download it.
[32:52.650 --> 32:56.410]  And any additional information that you'll need is included in the info file.
[32:56.630 --> 33:08.070]  So we try to be pretty, um, pretty comprehensive about everything, so you can actually, and, um, enjoy the, uh, enjoy the piece, but also if you want to see, um, everything, um, you know, the way it was, we don't want to kind of spoil it.
[33:08.070 --> 33:25.930]  And I believe that in, in the case of, uh, uh, of this work, someone actually, um, downloaded this and, uh, after she took the site down, someone actually downloaded, uh, the zero-day release and put the site back up using the index, uh, of relative, relative index.html file.
[33:26.230 --> 33:28.310]  So it was, it was put back online again.
[33:29.370 --> 33:37.870]  Yeah, so, um, this, uh, we'll just talk a little bit about what this actual work was, uh, and why it ended up being taken down by the artist.
[33:38.170 --> 33:47.490]  Um, what Sarah, Sarah participated in a show, uh, uh, that was, uh, curated, uh, at, in Pennsylvania called What Is Internet?
[33:47.490 --> 33:55.170]  And the, uh, artists were tasked with creating original works responding to this in whichever way they, uh, they chose.
[33:55.330 --> 34:02.630]  So she posted a, um, a job listing on a, uh, a site for, um, voice actors.
[34:02.630 --> 34:17.410]  And she asked, uh, she said that she wanted as many people, um, to respond to this posting as, uh, as they liked, but with the understanding that only one of them would be selected, um, for an actual payment for the job.
[34:17.870 --> 34:24.790]  And, um, the, the voice actors were supposed to tell, tell her in their own words what the Internet meant to them.
[34:25.390 --> 34:41.090]  Um, so what she ended up doing was she, uh, put, put together a website where she linked all of these auditions, uh, from the voice actors, um, with streaming, streaming examples of the audio that they, um, performed.
[34:41.490 --> 34:50.650]  Um, and then she was, uh, going to allow the public to vote on which was the, which one was the best, and that was the one that was going to be paid for the job.
[34:51.330 --> 35:05.950]  Uh, unfortunately, um, um, the company, the voices.com, the company that was, um, uh, representing all of these voice artists, uh, took issue with, with the project and said that it was a violation of their terms of service.
[35:06.150 --> 35:16.490]  And so before she was able to even, uh, have a public voting period, um, they sent her a cease and desist letter and asked her, uh, to take down the site.
[35:17.090 --> 35:28.230]  Um, she contemplated sort of keeping it up and, and fighting it, um, legally because she felt that the way that she worded, uh, the job posting was within their terms of service.
[35:28.810 --> 35:39.990]  Um, but eventually she decided that, uh, she really didn't, didn't have the, the time or, um, the, the legal backing to get into, um, something like this.
[35:40.110 --> 35:54.730]  And so we approached her and said that we would be happy to help, um, make, make sure that the work, uh, that she created lived on and, uh, and was, uh, and would be continued, uh, to, to, would continue to circulate on the, on the Internet.
[35:55.410 --> 35:55.630]  Yeah.
[35:55.790 --> 35:57.530]  And we can listen to a couple of these now.
[35:57.830 --> 35:59.550]  It's a very, it's a very interesting project.
[35:59.790 --> 35:59.930]  Yeah.
[35:59.970 --> 36:01.250]  There's a, there's a lot of them.
[36:01.450 --> 36:13.450]  And, uh, I'd encourage you guys, this is really one worth checking out because it's pretty amazing to hear what, uh, like all of the ways that these voice actors present themselves and all the things that they think the Internet is.
[36:13.450 --> 36:15.530]  So, yeah, just play a couple real quick.
[36:16.450 --> 36:18.070]  Hi, this is Lauren Holliday.
[36:18.210 --> 36:19.110]  Here is your audition.
[36:19.890 --> 36:35.690]  The Internet is not a transcendental ideation of interceptive autocoptic solidaric redaction, nor an orgasmic individuality of mobilized digresses, nor spontaneously race-mated into homogeneous individuality, for Pete's sake.
[36:36.810 --> 36:37.530]  All right.
[36:37.830 --> 36:39.990]  So I forgot how good some of these were.
[36:40.030 --> 36:42.550]  Yeah, we might just listen to these for the rest of our talk, actually.
[36:42.550 --> 36:45.970]  If there's no questions later, we'll just play more, because that'll be all right.
[36:46.070 --> 36:47.090]  Let's see a couple more.
[36:47.390 --> 36:47.730]  I don't know.
[36:48.030 --> 36:48.930]  I, they're so great.
[36:49.270 --> 36:54.430]  Internet is the beginning of the future and the end of yesterday.
[36:56.070 --> 36:56.630]  All right.
[36:58.550 --> 37:00.110]  This is Jane Habrikowicz.
[37:00.530 --> 37:03.190]  Internet is my window to the world.
[37:04.850 --> 37:06.010]  Oh, that one isn't so good.
[37:06.110 --> 37:06.890]  I have to end on something good.
[37:06.890 --> 37:16.310]  The Internet is the world for me, me for the world, only when I want it, at my speed, at a very low fuel cost.
[37:17.110 --> 37:17.730]  All right.
[37:19.570 --> 37:22.250]  So yeah, if you're interested in this work, you don't even have to download it.
[37:22.350 --> 37:29.950]  Again, you can check out our kiosk downstairs, and you can grab all of our releases, and this is on here, and you can take a look at it.
[37:30.290 --> 37:30.590]  All right.
[37:34.960 --> 37:35.560]  All right.
[37:35.720 --> 37:38.020]  So again, this is, this was Internet Is by Sarah Weiss.
[37:39.300 --> 37:39.780]  Yeah.
[37:40.080 --> 37:52.000]  So now we're gonna, we're gonna sort of go back in time a little bit and talk about another project that was called Art Micro Patronage, which ended up being a target of Zero Day Art.
[37:52.000 --> 37:58.020]  And then it played out in a sort of interesting way over the course of six months.
[37:58.380 --> 38:08.940]  So Art Micro Patronage is a site that tried to create a model, or is trying to create a model for micropayments to artists of Internet art.
[38:09.780 --> 38:22.400]  So what they're doing is they're approaching curators, asking them to select a group of artists, and then they're presenting them as, they're presenting these shows on their site, artmicropatronage.org.
[38:23.500 --> 38:38.620]  You can click through the shows, and as you click through and view the individual works, you're, you're given a sort of navigation bar on the bottom of the window that allows you to donate small amounts of money to the, to the artist.
[38:40.620 --> 38:48.220]  In doing so, you, you ensure that you have continued access to these works even after the end of the show.
[38:48.500 --> 38:54.660]  So as their, their model is basically like becoming a patron of the arts.
[38:54.820 --> 38:56.960]  You have continued access to these works.
[38:57.060 --> 39:05.980]  If you don't donate, then after the run of one month, that show goes offline and it's not, it's no longer viewable to you.
[39:06.320 --> 39:09.220]  It's sort of hidden to only the, the people that have donated.
[39:09.680 --> 39:16.260]  So, um, the first show that they, uh, that they put out was one by, uh, Sarah Klein.
[39:16.440 --> 39:17.640]  It was called Material Motion.
[39:17.880 --> 39:35.320]  And we saw this as, uh, an opportunity, um, for Zero Day Art to sort of step in and, um, archive these works and distribute them again through, uh, through BitTorrent networks and the Pirate Bay and make sure that they continued, uh, to be accessible to everyone.
[39:35.560 --> 39:43.660]  Do you want to talk a little bit about the process of sort of, um, some of that, like the, the different media formats and how we were able to do that?
[39:43.800 --> 39:44.160]  Yeah.
[39:44.260 --> 39:56.140]  So this was, um, one where we needed some help basically, because it was, um, we, the interesting thing again about the Zero Day project is that, yeah, once this releases, we don't understand if we hear about a show, what it's going to look like, what it's going to have,
[39:56.300 --> 39:59.420]  um, as a part of it, what type of media until the day it comes out.
[39:59.760 --> 40:02.340]  And, um, we can't always afford to take off of work every day.
[40:02.500 --> 40:03.620]  A show is going to be released.
[40:03.860 --> 40:09.000]  So most of the time it has, uh, has, uh, shows released and it, Jeremiah and I talk through things during the day.
[40:09.120 --> 40:12.080]  And then at night, we're working hard to get, take everything and get it together.
[40:12.080 --> 40:21.880]  So this show was particularly interesting because again, um, it has a rather complex, um, oh, not rather complex, but it's a little more complicated because of the, the frames and the payments.
[40:22.100 --> 40:29.900]  And there were streaming movies as well as animated GIFs and entire websites that were, that were shown.
[40:30.220 --> 40:31.740]  So, and it was a collection of works.
[40:31.820 --> 40:32.560]  It wasn't just one.
[40:32.740 --> 40:40.840]  So, uh, we had to, you know, stay faithful to, um, you know, archiving everything, but as well as working around some of those challenges.
[40:41.140 --> 40:46.000]  So we actually had, um, we had, uh, extra, uh, extra rippers here.
[40:46.120 --> 40:55.880]  This is one of the first shows where we had, um, Chuka help us out with getting, um, some of, uh, these files that we needed off of, um, some of the, in some of the streaming formats.
[40:56.380 --> 41:01.760]  And, uh, and, uh, we had, we had a reaction right away from Art Micro Patronage, right?
[41:01.760 --> 41:17.420]  Yeah, they, um, basically, uh, they, they reacted, uh, to, to the release of this show, um, because I think we had, uh, we had tweeted something out from our Twitter account that was a screenshot of the Google search results for, um, for Art Micro Patronage.
[41:17.420 --> 41:22.520]  And the first results were, uh, the Pirate Bay, uh, links to Art Torrent file.
[41:22.720 --> 41:25.380]  Um, I think it was, like, the first five or six results.
[41:25.620 --> 41:28.080]  And then after that was their website with the show on it.
[41:28.520 --> 41:34.800]  Um, so we said, like, don't, like, uh, curators, artists, like, don't say we never, we never did anything for you.
[41:34.900 --> 41:36.880]  Like, we're increasing your visibility.
[41:37.660 --> 41:46.740]  Um, and, uh, so, uh, so, uh, as time went on, um, basically, they, this was the first show and they did a six month season.
[41:46.740 --> 41:59.740]  And by the last, um, show in the season, um, which was entitled Cream, uh, curated by, uh, Lindsay Howard, uh, who's currently a curatorial fellow at I-Beam, so things sort of, like, come full circle.
[42:00.360 --> 42:07.340]  Um, we were actually invited to, uh, be included in one of Art Micro Patronage's shows.
[42:07.560 --> 42:19.980]  And so, for, um, for, um, for Cream, uh, we, we actually ripped, uh, every single, um, show in the entire season of, uh, the Art Micro Patronage site.
[42:20.100 --> 42:23.260]  So that was six shows, including all of the works within Cream itself.
[42:23.400 --> 42:30.300]  And then we packaged that as a mega pack of, um, of, of net art and then released that on the Pirate Bay.
[42:31.040 --> 42:34.800]  Um, along with that, we created, uh, an intro.
[42:35.040 --> 42:44.380]  Um, and we're gonna, we're gonna show you, uh, the intro real quick that, um, so this is the, this is sort of, like, we're, um, yeah, hold on.
[42:44.540 --> 42:47.700]  It's, uh, bring the browser window over.
[42:48.300 --> 42:49.020]  Oh, man.
[42:49.700 --> 42:51.440]  Is that, wait, is it, like, locked somehow?
[42:51.460 --> 42:52.300]  This is so bad.
[42:53.240 --> 42:55.140]  Really not that good at computers, actually.
[42:55.780 --> 42:55.860]  There you go.
[42:55.860 --> 42:56.580]  Okay, so.
[42:57.140 --> 43:04.440]  ZeroDayArt.net forward slash exhibitions forward slash AMP capitals.
[43:05.160 --> 43:05.800]  Is that it?
[43:05.800 --> 43:06.020]  Yeah.
[43:07.940 --> 43:08.420]  Yeah.
[43:18.110 --> 43:24.130]  And so you can see the sort of, um, typical, uh, tropes of, uh, intro culture.
[43:24.390 --> 43:28.390]  It's scroll texts, um, greets, our logo represented there.
[43:28.510 --> 43:30.970]  And then this was music that I produced for it.
[43:31.230 --> 43:32.930]  Um, Don did the coding for the intro.
[43:33.130 --> 43:50.350]  And we sort of, so you see we're sort of, like, mirroring an evolution of, um, of the Kraken culture and the demo scene culture and bringing this back into the net art scene and seeing, uh, how, how these two sort of similar but, um, but separate lineages,
[43:50.350 --> 43:52.450]  uh, can inform one another.
[43:55.590 --> 44:11.790]  So, um, through, uh, through this, uh, participation in the Cream Show at Art Micro Patronage, we actually ended up becoming the, um, most, uh, funded project in the entire season of, um, of shows that they did.
[44:11.790 --> 44:19.950]  And so, uh, what we ended up doing with the money that was donated was we split it between the Creative Commons, EFF, and the Pirate Bay.
[44:20.350 --> 44:25.990]  And we just took, um, um, because we felt like we were, we didn't really want to take this money for ourselves.
[44:26.370 --> 44:39.450]  Uh, first of all, it wasn't, it wasn't a huge amount of money, but it also was, um, a way that we wanted to show sort of the organizations that we support, um, and who we felt were related to what we were doing.
[44:40.030 --> 44:49.290]  And we, our, since our release was the, was actually, uh, sort of compilation of the work of many artists, we felt that this was a more reasonable, um, thing to do.
[44:50.630 --> 44:52.650]  Okay, let's move on to you and I.
[44:53.070 --> 44:53.490]  Yeah, yeah.
[44:53.710 --> 45:03.090]  I think we're just gonna, uh, I think we only have about five minutes left, so we're just gonna, um, rather than, uh, talking anymore, we're basically at the end of everything we wanted to say.
[45:03.210 --> 45:07.550]  We want to open it up to questions, and also just, um, any suggestions people have.
[45:07.750 --> 45:11.010]  We're, we're really interested in getting more people involved with the group.
[45:11.230 --> 45:24.450]  Um, if this is something that sounds interesting to you, we'd love to get some more people that are really knowledgeable in, uh, in terms of computer security, and, um, and think about other ways that we can sort of grow this project.
[45:24.730 --> 45:26.990]  So any questions, feedback, suggestions?
[45:27.370 --> 45:33.250]  If you could turn up the lights a little bit so we can see who is asking questions and who's trying to leave?
[45:35.590 --> 45:35.950]  Thanks.
[45:36.210 --> 45:37.550]  Um, can I ask a quick question?
[45:37.950 --> 45:40.630]  Uh, so I think a lot of this... Hey, guys.
[45:41.030 --> 45:50.090]  I think a lot of this, to me, um, this is certainly an important part of this is political, obviously, and economic, since we're Americans, um, and we live by the dollar.
[45:50.670 --> 45:59.410]  So when this all happened with Michael Manning at I-Beam, um, I'm sure, I know that there was a bit, a lot of back and forth on that, and some of it was public, and some of it probably wasn't.
[45:59.690 --> 46:04.710]  But to you guys, how important was this whole aspect of artists being able to make a living?
[46:05.290 --> 46:09.010]  And what was, what your work was, how it was affecting that?
[46:09.450 --> 46:11.950]  I mean, obviously, that's a very loaded question, but just to everyone.
[46:11.970 --> 46:21.990]  I mean, uh, obviously, both of us being artists, in addition to participants in this, uh, in this group, you know, I would love to be able to live off my art.
[46:22.090 --> 46:38.350]  What I don't think is reasonable is to, um, expect to be able to live off my art, uh, based on a system where you're imposing an artificial scarcity on digital works and trying to treat them like physical objects, uh, that can be sold in the same way.
[46:38.770 --> 46:55.970]  So it's, uh, I think to, to, to try and approach, um, the sale of, of Internet art or digital art in that way, you're basically creating an unsustainable situation, which is obvious based on what we've seen within the, the movie industries and the, the sort of,
[46:56.110 --> 46:58.450]  um, uh, the music industries.
[46:58.670 --> 47:06.070]  And so there are different, part of what we really wanted to do with this is say, like, you can't, like, take works offline.
[47:06.130 --> 47:09.510]  That's not a valid approach to, to solving this problem.
[47:09.650 --> 47:23.050]  You have to, you, you have to think about other ways of monetizing these works that are going to be sustainable and are actually going to work and are actually going to allow the works to continue to circulate, um, through the networks.
[47:28.230 --> 47:39.890]  This is maybe an overly artificial question, but to what degree do you see zero day art net itself as an art project more than a political project?
[47:39.890 --> 47:41.330]  We can talk about some of the future plans.
[47:41.530 --> 47:41.710]  Okay.
[47:41.830 --> 47:42.590]  How do you want to do that?
[47:42.970 --> 47:43.490]  Oh, really?
[47:44.030 --> 47:44.570]  Maybe start.
[47:44.990 --> 47:45.470]  Oh, chime in.
[47:45.610 --> 47:45.830]  Okay.
[47:46.710 --> 47:57.830]  Um, obviously, there's, there's, it is, it's a very open question and it's something that we've talked a lot about, but, um, I do see it as a sort of art project in itself.
[47:58.130 --> 48:18.330]  Um, I think that it's a sort of, um, it's, it exists sort of at the intersection of, like, uh, hacktivism, like open culture, um, um, conceptual art, um, and, uh, and, and it is something where we're trying to, um, okay, we have two minutes.
[48:18.510 --> 48:31.690]  We're trying to basically, um, create conversation around this, but we're also, uh, in some ways we're, uh, curators because we're deciding which shows that we, we want to represent through the, through the site.
[48:31.810 --> 48:39.730]  Obviously, we're not going to release everything that falls, uh, under the umbrella of Internet art and is susceptible to being taken offline.
[48:40.390 --> 48:46.090]  So it's, yeah, it's something that is sort of an ongoing evolution, uh, uh, for us.
[48:46.210 --> 48:49.550]  And we're not, we're not exactly sure where the project is going to go.
[48:49.890 --> 48:50.550]  We're open to that.
[48:50.690 --> 48:51.490]  Yeah, we're definitely open.
[48:51.630 --> 48:57.230]  We want to, like I said, one of the reasons being here at HOPE is really to make connections with more people and talk to other people that may have interest.
[48:57.350 --> 49:12.850]  And we really do want to hear from you, but we're definitely looking to kind of go beyond the, I, the model of just releasing works, um, of that, of other shows and looking how, you know, we can actually help support artists and, um, through all of the kind of press and attention that we've gotten through this project.
[49:12.850 --> 49:18.630]  So yeah, we have kind of varied future plans and, um, and, uh, yeah, and definitely want to hear from you.
[49:18.790 --> 49:19.010]  Yeah.
[49:19.090 --> 49:22.070]  So I think we, I don't think we have any more time for questions.
[49:22.070 --> 49:26.130]  Please, if you have any suggestions or questions, come up to us afterwards.
[49:26.550 --> 49:31.050]  Also, you can hit us up, uh, uh, on Twitter at, uh, at zero day art.
[49:31.250 --> 49:36.390]  Um, you can also, um, go to the website, www.zerodayart.net.
[49:36.590 --> 49:43.130]  And if you want to email us, uh, it's distro, D I S T R O at zero day art.net.
[49:43.130 --> 49:44.550]  Thanks everyone for coming.
[49:44.750 --> 49:45.050]  Thank you.