[00:05.240 --> 00:07.080]  Two experts on boxing, BillSF
[00:07.740 --> 00:08.800]  and K.C.
[00:09.200 --> 00:11.660]  from California, BillSF
[00:11.660 --> 00:19.080]  from Amsterdam, who will tell us everything there is to know about boxing that you want to know, and take it away.
[00:23.840 --> 00:25.500]  Okay, I guess everybody can hear me.
[00:26.060 --> 00:28.480]  I've always noticed that when you talk up here, you can't hear me.
[00:28.760 --> 00:29.480]  Is it not on?
[00:32.220 --> 00:33.740]  Louder, I just speak like here.
[00:34.640 --> 00:35.520]  Now you can hear me.
[00:35.840 --> 00:36.840]  Now I can hear myself out there.
[00:36.980 --> 00:37.120]  Okay.
[00:38.280 --> 00:39.980]  Right, that's not a very good mic then.
[00:41.640 --> 00:45.780]  Okay, I'm here to talk about, I guess they call it boxing.
[00:45.940 --> 00:50.620]  I thought it was going to be phone-freaking, which may be a broader area, a broader topic.
[00:52.420 --> 01:01.620]  So I was going to start off by explaining what phone-freaking is and what it is not, in my opinion, which I think is the general opinion of just about everybody.
[01:02.240 --> 01:03.300]  I'm getting nervous.
[01:06.100 --> 01:15.700]  Basically, freaking is manipulating the phone system and generally doing it in a way that is not usual.
[01:17.240 --> 01:23.360]  A very low-level form of it, or at least today since it's been around for many years, it would be like red boxing.
[01:23.580 --> 01:29.620]  That's true-freaking because you're using signaling to tell the other side something is happening.
[01:29.680 --> 01:32.540]  In this case, putting money into the phone.
[01:33.560 --> 01:36.580]  Generally, you think of phone-freaking as using the blue box.
[01:38.020 --> 01:42.120]  It seems a lot of people think that the blue box died.
[01:43.940 --> 01:55.140]  It's been in use in one form or another probably since the 40s and still works today and is expected to continue working well into the 21st century.
[01:55.700 --> 02:02.700]  Though I wouldn't expect C5 to the developed world to be around much more than 2,000, yeah.
[02:03.420 --> 02:08.900]  Pretty much everything is going common-channel, but that still doesn't mean you can't freak or manipulate the phone system.
[02:09.860 --> 02:15.720]  But that's going to require other exploration and there's probably people here that know something about that.
[02:17.320 --> 02:18.500]  But who knows.
[02:19.000 --> 02:27.020]  But today, we should probably talk about here now today and mainly answer your questions, whatever questions might happen.
[02:27.120 --> 02:28.560]  It's a fairly small group, which is good.
[02:28.920 --> 02:37.780]  So there might be some intelligent dialogue and I see there's no press or anything here to make this thing into a zoo like what happened in Amsterdam.
[02:37.780 --> 02:47.880]  Requiring us to conduct a small meeting where we absolutely positively forbade any TV media.
[02:48.540 --> 02:54.260]  So, is there anything that people want to know in general?
[02:54.540 --> 02:57.600]  And they should ask questions to either Kevin or myself.
[03:10.420 --> 03:12.620]  Yes, that's called a...
[03:15.460 --> 03:16.940]  That's called a C5.
[03:18.340 --> 03:20.920]  And the beep that you would hear was this.
[03:21.880 --> 03:22.760]  That's not right.
[03:22.760 --> 03:23.260]  I'm alive.
[03:23.260 --> 03:25.300]  Let's see.
[03:27.800 --> 03:28.100]  No.
[03:31.460 --> 03:37.760]  Or you hear a little person, 2,400 to pick up like this, or...
[03:40.410 --> 03:40.780]  Yeah.
[03:41.320 --> 03:44.260]  We're hung up the day 2,600 like...
[03:45.460 --> 03:47.120]  Yeah, that's C5.
[03:47.120 --> 03:50.060]  Alright, what is that doing?
[03:50.900 --> 03:58.500]  What is... what C5 is... it's very similar to R1, which R1 is the normal blue box where you would do 2600.
[04:00.220 --> 04:00.620]  Yeah.
[04:01.900 --> 04:03.340]  Wow, you guys go macro mode.
[04:04.440 --> 04:05.760]  Do you want a sequence?
[04:07.200 --> 04:08.320]  Let's do a sequence here.
[04:08.860 --> 04:11.860]  We should probably start off with R1 and just do C5.
[04:13.680 --> 04:14.920]  Okay, do you want me to do it?
[04:14.920 --> 04:16.940]  Yeah, we'll start off with R1.
[04:17.960 --> 04:22.460]  Okay, R1 was... well, it's a program in R1 sequence.
[04:22.640 --> 04:34.300]  R1 was basically a fairly simple system to use as far as the mechanical operation of it, but sometimes fairly complex as far as what codes you have to enter and how you do it.
[04:34.380 --> 04:39.660]  But I will generate a typical R1 sequence and tell you what would be happening as if we were really doing this on the phone.
[04:40.080 --> 04:56.640]  Originally, I wanted to kind of do the whole thing, start off, you know, how you get numbers that you can get trunks and go to the operator to ask what, like, is the MCI direct number to Malaysia, which I understand you can use C5 with, and then get on the phone and actually do a call.
[04:56.840 --> 05:06.660]  But when I hear stories about the FBI camped out on the bottom floor and coming up here and getting people and harassing them and telling them to have to be quiet about it or they're arrested, I think that's...
[05:06.660 --> 05:07.800]  Yeah, earlier I was approached...
[05:07.800 --> 05:08.700]  A little bit, apparently.
[05:09.060 --> 05:12.440]  I was approached by AT&T this morning.
[05:12.720 --> 05:23.860]  I also had a New York City detective come busting into my room two days ago, so we're plenty pigged out, and it's a little...
[05:23.860 --> 05:26.260]  You're welcome to come back with us to Holland, though.
[05:26.720 --> 05:27.120]  Right.
[05:27.440 --> 05:33.280]  That's another idea, but still, you've got to be pretty low-key in Holland, but if you do it once, you wouldn't get busted.
[05:33.380 --> 05:35.880]  In most countries, that's true, but here...
[05:36.360 --> 05:38.240]  Well, let's just simulate it.
[05:38.300 --> 05:44.320]  This is a demon dialer, and this stuff works here if you know what you're doing and where you're doing it from, and what they have.
[05:47.300 --> 05:52.700]  We'll program one second of 2600, which is required to seize and reset the line.
[05:55.120 --> 05:59.680]  And then, after you do that, the trunk will go bleak, and then you have to program a number.
[06:00.820 --> 06:06.380]  And you can just simply program a simple number like KP1, which is called KP here.
[06:07.080 --> 06:08.980]  KP2 is not used in the R1 system.
[06:09.580 --> 06:19.760]  And then you would simply file the area code, like 415, and then the weather, say 9361212, and end with code 15, which is commonly called ST.
[06:21.980 --> 06:23.660]  And they always sound something like this.
[06:25.480 --> 06:26.940]  That would go, then it would go complete.
[06:27.220 --> 06:29.300]  And when you heard complete, you would just simply go.
[06:31.620 --> 06:34.160]  And that would call the weather in San Francisco.
[06:42.710 --> 06:43.850]  That's system C5.
[06:46.430 --> 06:48.110]  C5, is this...
[06:52.610 --> 06:58.790]  I'll do a typical C5 sequence, like for MCI and many other carriers would use this sequence.
[07:09.680 --> 07:10.940]  Oops, that didn't work right.
[07:11.120 --> 07:12.140]  It's supposed to be...
[07:12.760 --> 07:13.480]  Try this again.
[07:21.580 --> 07:23.400]  Well, for some reason, this is not doing it right.
[07:25.380 --> 07:30.620]  Well, we always hear the tape, but basically, it would be...
[07:30.620 --> 07:32.080]  Is this tape of someone actually freaking?
[07:33.080 --> 07:33.100]  Yeah.
[07:36.270 --> 07:37.410]  Make me ask a click call.
[07:39.490 --> 07:40.170]  Oh, okay.
[07:40.930 --> 07:41.870]  So, they were actually...
[07:41.870 --> 07:43.170]  Someone was actually paying for the call.
[07:44.510 --> 07:44.910]  Yeah.
[07:57.640 --> 07:59.960]  Oh, so you're just commenting on what the system sounds like.
[07:59.960 --> 08:00.120]  Right.
[08:04.240 --> 08:06.800]  Well, we can probably do that later while I hear it.
[08:06.900 --> 08:07.380]  I mean, it's...
[08:07.380 --> 08:11.600]  How many people in this room have talked on an international line?
[08:13.160 --> 08:13.840]  Okay, good.
[08:14.000 --> 08:15.340]  People at least know what's going on.
[08:16.700 --> 08:21.400]  It's when the line sort of goes dead.
[08:30.200 --> 08:31.600]  The period of silence?
[08:31.860 --> 08:32.040]  Yeah.
[08:32.320 --> 08:35.020]  That is when MF is being sent, or whatever signal they're using.
[08:35.020 --> 08:37.220]  It may be a multi-frequency system.
[08:37.380 --> 08:40.220]  It may be a common channel system.
[08:40.320 --> 08:41.160]  It may be a lot of things.
[08:41.780 --> 08:45.080]  But if there's a longer pause, there's a good chance it's an in-band system.
[08:46.580 --> 08:54.220]  In fact, that's one of the techniques you can often tell what system you're up against, because it's the slowness, how long it takes.
[08:54.400 --> 08:56.660]  In many cases, though, you'll actually hear its signal.
[08:57.480 --> 08:59.720]  If we had a phone line up here, we could show someone.
[09:00.140 --> 09:02.140]  Oh, we can have a phone line up here.
[09:03.060 --> 09:05.380]  Do you actually have some stuff you want to demonstrate?
[09:05.700 --> 09:09.920]  If anyone has the issue of 2600 that has the 800 hours on it, I can show it.
[09:11.760 --> 09:13.340]  Yeah, we remember we're on the line.
[09:13.480 --> 09:15.680]  It cost us per call, but I guess it won't hurt too bad.
[09:16.900 --> 09:18.560]  I think it was two issues back.
[09:20.440 --> 09:23.600]  The issue before the current one is the one he's referring to.
[09:23.680 --> 09:25.700]  It had a few numbers listed.
[09:31.440 --> 09:32.520]  Yes, spring 94.
[09:35.920 --> 09:36.440]  Okay.
[09:37.620 --> 09:40.460]  It's the one with Mark's bandana across the top.
[09:41.440 --> 09:42.520]  The first one.
[09:49.840 --> 09:51.580]  So, you want to set the phone and do this?
[09:51.800 --> 09:52.460]  Or, uh...
[09:53.180 --> 09:53.340]  Yeah.
[09:53.960 --> 09:54.360]  Okay.
[10:02.550 --> 10:07.930]  Well, first I have to do is call into the network office and have them give me an outside line.
[10:09.170 --> 10:12.330]  Well, I don't want to use this with it, because I just let you hear what the tones are.
[10:12.330 --> 10:14.930]  They mute the tones here in the States.
[10:15.210 --> 10:18.170]  I mean, I played with these numbers myself before doing this.
[10:18.370 --> 10:21.550]  The tones aren't as loud and distinct as they are anywhere else.
[10:22.030 --> 10:23.710]  There is some attempt to filter them.
[10:23.930 --> 10:25.070]  Yeah, why do you record them?
[10:26.050 --> 10:27.770]  Well, if you record them, what good would that do?
[10:29.330 --> 10:31.370]  They're very easy to duplicate anyway.
[10:32.130 --> 10:33.090]  If you're one of these, you can do it.
[10:33.190 --> 10:33.750]  Or a computer.
[10:34.210 --> 10:34.790]  No problem.
[10:35.110 --> 10:48.690]  However, if you use most home computers, at least the game computers, you know, like the Atari or the Amiga or so, you have trouble because the video interrupt will cause it not to produce a continuous tone.
[10:48.890 --> 10:51.530]  You know, it may add a nice musical quality to it.
[10:51.810 --> 10:53.330]  The phone company says, Amiga.
[10:53.330 --> 10:53.410]  Yeah.
[10:54.010 --> 10:55.570]  We don't put all C for that.
[10:56.710 --> 10:57.030]  Yeah.
[10:57.210 --> 10:59.290]  Is the length of the sound of the sound of the sound?
[11:00.370 --> 11:00.890]  Sure.
[11:01.190 --> 11:03.850]  Lengths and tones are extremely critical of C5.
[11:04.030 --> 11:06.510]  That's the big difference between R1 and C5.
[11:06.670 --> 11:13.270]  Is that R1 worked by having a continuously sent 2600 that was removed to indicate the seizure of a line.
[11:14.010 --> 11:27.270]  C5 has a separate tone, 2400 plus 2600, to clear the line and then just actually seize the line to get it to be dialable, you have to have another specially timed 2400 hertz and then you can dial the numbers.
[11:27.410 --> 11:29.150]  Can you use both timing into your device?
[11:29.570 --> 11:30.170]  Of course.
[11:30.350 --> 11:32.950]  You could never do C5 with just a manual device.
[11:33.390 --> 11:35.050]  It's got to be more than a simple blue box.
[11:35.150 --> 11:37.430]  Is that analog or are you using D2A?
[11:37.550 --> 11:49.870]  This is using a Motorola HC705CH processor with a home built D2A with resistors.
[11:51.570 --> 11:51.970]  Hello?
[11:53.250 --> 11:53.930]  It's mom.
[11:55.430 --> 11:56.410]  Someone's playing with the phone.
[12:01.070 --> 12:01.470]  Okay.
[12:01.530 --> 12:09.610]  I'm going to call in to, so I get an outside line and we'll let Kevin play with the phone and hopefully someone's there to pot it up when we go on.
[12:14.150 --> 12:14.470]  Okay.
[12:17.750 --> 12:19.810]  Oh, you can talk to him while I'm trying to get this set up.
[12:20.850 --> 12:21.030]  All right.
[12:21.110 --> 12:23.430]  I think we should probably cover C5 a little bit more.
[12:27.900 --> 12:34.640]  When I was in Israel, I played around with France for a while and to give you an example of how much the timing is critical.
[12:34.960 --> 12:37.240]  I was trying to make an international call.
[12:37.240 --> 12:37.600]  Sure.
[12:37.820 --> 12:37.940]  Sure.
[12:38.080 --> 12:39.100]  We'll do that right away, sir.
[12:39.760 --> 12:41.440]  Why don't you hold on?
[12:42.460 --> 12:42.700]  Okay.
[12:45.560 --> 12:47.300]  That wasn't supposed to be on the PA system.
[12:47.760 --> 12:48.420]  Okay, sir.
[12:51.900 --> 12:52.240]  Okay.
[12:55.620 --> 12:57.460]  Sir, international calls, 011.
[12:58.240 --> 13:01.560]  Oh, there will be no international calls, but I just wanted to make a few toll-free calls.
[13:02.680 --> 13:03.620]  Toll-free calls, sir?
[13:03.860 --> 13:04.000]  Yes.
[13:04.500 --> 13:05.500]  They're a dollar a piece, right?
[13:05.580 --> 13:06.220]  95 cents?
[13:06.840 --> 13:07.400]  95 cents?
[13:07.580 --> 13:09.000]  Well, sir, for you, we got a special.
[13:09.180 --> 13:10.700]  It's only 75 cents.
[13:11.020 --> 13:11.340]  Wow.
[13:11.540 --> 13:11.940]  Good deal.
[13:12.960 --> 13:13.400]  All right.
[13:13.480 --> 13:13.940]  Thank you, operator.
[13:13.940 --> 13:15.320]  No problem, sir.
[13:15.580 --> 13:16.280]  Thank you.
[13:24.220 --> 13:26.380]  Well, that's just so many of the network office here.
[13:27.220 --> 13:28.140]  Can we call Uruguay?
[13:28.400 --> 13:29.000]  Yeah, go ahead.
[13:29.320 --> 13:30.280]  Okay, what's the number for Uruguay?
[13:30.320 --> 13:30.780]  Oh, there it is.
[13:30.980 --> 13:31.080]  Okay.
[13:31.740 --> 13:32.920]  245-84-11.
[13:33.640 --> 13:34.260]  That's 800.
[13:35.660 --> 13:37.560]  Dial 9 to get the hotel PBX.
[13:38.040 --> 13:39.480]  Dial 9 to get a real line.
[13:39.820 --> 13:40.620]  I think it's real.
[13:41.740 --> 13:42.540]  1-800.
[13:43.620 --> 13:44.840]  Uh, 2-4-5.
[13:45.360 --> 13:45.520]  Uh, 2-4-5.
[13:45.640 --> 13:45.660]  Uh,
[13:48.960 --> 13:48.960]  2-4-5.
[13:48.980 --> 13:50.700]  Okay, probably not fairly loud.
[13:52.560 --> 13:55.060]  It's, uh, 2-4-5-8-4-1-1, sir.
[13:55.660 --> 13:55.880]  Oh.
[13:56.180 --> 13:56.400]  Yeah.
[13:56.720 --> 13:57.980]  Okay, wonderful phone system.
[14:04.280 --> 14:07.860]  Uh, I know for sure, uh, I could try, uh...
[14:07.860 --> 14:08.620]  Well, Jeremy will.
[14:08.900 --> 14:09.900]  Yeah, Jeremy is.
[14:11.960 --> 14:12.920]  Uh, 292.
[14:15.180 --> 14:16.320]  Uh, 0-4-9.
[14:17.020 --> 14:18.480]  I have a logical number here.
[14:18.700 --> 14:18.960]  Yeah.
[14:18.960 --> 14:20.500]  Okay, turn it up fairly loud.
[14:20.680 --> 14:21.080]  This is muted.
[14:38.230 --> 14:40.330]  About as fast as cable and wireless.
[14:41.450 --> 14:42.830]  That's not a German ring.
[14:45.950 --> 14:47.130]  That's an American ring.
[14:47.910 --> 14:48.830]  We're sorry.
[14:49.330 --> 14:50.450]  Your call did not...
[14:51.670 --> 14:52.990]  Well, we might have...
[14:52.990 --> 14:53.210]  Yeah.
[14:53.970 --> 14:56.790]  You might have to dial 2-1 instead of 9.
[14:57.370 --> 14:58.290]  Oh, okay.
[14:58.530 --> 14:59.190]  That's right.
[14:59.290 --> 15:00.970]  It's a silly hotel, uh, PBX system.
[15:00.970 --> 15:02.050]  9.
[15:02.390 --> 15:03.070]  And then 2.
[15:05.470 --> 15:06.790]  Try Uruguay again.
[15:07.070 --> 15:08.010]  2-4-5.
[15:08.830 --> 15:09.690]  8-4.
[15:10.010 --> 15:11.310]  That's a 1-800 number.
[15:11.410 --> 15:11.870]  Normally free.
[15:12.350 --> 15:12.450]  Okay.
[15:12.910 --> 15:13.210]  I'll have that.
[15:31.700 --> 15:33.780]  Oh, we could kill if you want.
[15:39.840 --> 15:40.480]  Hello.
[15:58.420 --> 15:59.060]  Hello.
[16:01.520 --> 16:02.020]  Hello.
[16:02.020 --> 16:02.720]  Silly PBX.
[16:03.400 --> 16:05.320]  AT&T is trying to warn us.
[16:06.040 --> 16:06.500]  Yeah.
[16:07.420 --> 16:13.840]  Okay, that was, uh, the fleeks you heard were basically what C5 was, and I have no idea what the correct timing here is to do it right.
[16:14.480 --> 16:18.940]  But, uh, because I actually, when I did that, I didn't actually clear a line, I just completely blew it away.
[16:20.440 --> 16:25.880]  But if it's done right, probably if it was done with, uh, the tones right together in a macro, it would have probably worked.
[16:27.480 --> 16:27.800]  What?
[16:38.030 --> 16:38.450]  What's this?
[16:42.400 --> 16:45.760]  Uh, there was apparently no filter there, I mean, uh...
[16:49.120 --> 16:51.300]  Right, because you probably need shorter tones like this.
[16:51.300 --> 16:52.980]  Yeah, this is why timing is so critical.
[16:56.400 --> 17:01.880]  I mean, this would probably do it, and then you could go, uh, uh, KP1, uh...
[17:01.880 --> 17:03.560]  Try ErgY again, because it's one.
[17:04.560 --> 17:05.620]  It's pretty standard.
[17:06.780 --> 17:07.900]  He said it's pretty standard.
[17:07.900 --> 17:11.520]  This just takes a lot of balls to do it, but I'm not defrauding anybody.
[17:11.520 --> 17:16.380]  I'm just gonna try to demonstrate cold, uh, that, uh, the blue box still works.
[17:16.680 --> 17:18.820]  No fraud intended here, because we're not calling anybody.
[17:18.820 --> 17:24.060]  We should call the operator in New York, who could actually do a call for us if I wanted to social engineer her.
[17:24.300 --> 17:24.640]  Okay.
[17:25.220 --> 17:36.380]  And I'm gonna request that she speaks English by doing, uh, by using 2 as the discriminating digit, which in this case is the language digit, and then, uh, code 11, which means the operator.
[17:36.380 --> 17:42.560]  In the United States and Canada, it's 1, 2, 1, and then, uh, everything, of course, ends with, uh, ST or code 15.
[17:43.100 --> 17:45.460]  So, uh, get to C5 like this.
[17:45.760 --> 17:46.380]  Does that work?
[17:46.920 --> 17:47.460]  It should.
[17:47.680 --> 17:48.740]  It should, if it's 1, 15, 1, 15.
[17:49.640 --> 17:50.820]  It's, uh, 1, 20, 1, 20.
[17:50.960 --> 17:51.700]  It's probably close enough.
[17:54.780 --> 17:55.140]  Hello?
[17:57.460 --> 17:58.720]  Somebody's talking with these phones.
[17:59.020 --> 17:59.700]  It's so empty.
[18:08.540 --> 18:10.980]  Well, we'll have to, uh...
[18:25.580 --> 18:25.940]  Yeah.
[18:26.160 --> 18:27.880]  How do we make this, uh, from here?
[18:29.540 --> 18:37.400]  Well, if the timing's right, just, uh, we'll, we'll just, we dial, uh, if you want to dial the country, you, you click off, you use KP1 or your normal KP.
[18:38.060 --> 18:39.640]  Then 0 is a discriminating digit.
[18:40.300 --> 18:44.180]  So, what do you, what do you do with USL?
[18:45.300 --> 18:47.340]  You dial one of the country direct numbers.
[18:47.340 --> 18:47.380]  You dial one of the country direct numbers.
[18:47.640 --> 18:49.060]  And you can, like, use the various...
[18:49.060 --> 18:51.440]  Actually, you don't really even need to dial a country direct number.
[18:51.440 --> 18:56.860]  Or, I mean, if you want to pay for the call and inbox, you're certainly able to do that, too.
[19:00.600 --> 19:02.900]  Depending on, on how the connection is made, yeah.
[19:03.080 --> 19:03.680]  It's C5.
[19:03.940 --> 19:04.640]  It's possible.
[19:05.760 --> 19:05.820]  Yeah.
[19:06.340 --> 19:08.060]  Or there could be other systems used, too.
[19:08.180 --> 19:11.420]  And I think the people at the network office are such idiots, they don't even answer the phone.
[19:13.240 --> 19:13.640]  What?
[19:14.240 --> 19:15.040]  Trying to...
[19:15.040 --> 19:15.520]  Yeah.
[19:17.640 --> 19:19.300]  They've disconnected the outside line.
[19:20.200 --> 19:20.560]  So...
[19:20.560 --> 19:21.680]  It's a conspiracy.
[19:22.660 --> 19:23.020]  Yeah.
[19:24.240 --> 19:26.180]  But it's not connected directly to a phone line.
[19:26.320 --> 19:28.000]  And I cannot reach them at the network office.
[19:28.080 --> 19:31.140]  I wish somebody would go in there and tell them to do it right.
[19:31.680 --> 19:32.220]  But, uh...
[19:32.220 --> 19:33.120]  They're just a bunch of kids.
[19:33.220 --> 19:33.840]  What can I say?
[19:36.220 --> 19:36.580]  Yeah.
[19:45.070 --> 19:45.630]  Yes.
[19:46.910 --> 19:49.970]  R1 is commonly used in the US, contrary to popular belief.
[19:50.250 --> 19:52.270]  If you use OSPS, it'll use R1...
[19:55.470 --> 19:56.030]  Hello?
[19:57.890 --> 19:59.210]  Oh, this is...
[19:59.210 --> 20:00.110]  What's going on here?
[20:03.810 --> 20:04.370]  OSPS...
[20:04.370 --> 20:05.090]  Okay.
[20:05.310 --> 20:05.890]  Here we go.
[20:07.630 --> 20:08.030]  Uh...
[20:08.910 --> 20:09.310]  One...
[20:09.310 --> 20:09.510]  Two...
[20:11.740 --> 20:11.900]  Two...
[20:11.900 --> 20:12.060]  Two...
[20:12.860 --> 20:13.260]  Two...
[20:13.260 --> 20:13.440]  Yeah.
[20:13.660 --> 20:14.820]  Please put this on the PA system.
[20:21.020 --> 20:23.420]  And here we have to wait for it to pick up before we...
[20:25.500 --> 20:26.460]  Using MCI...
[20:26.960 --> 20:28.220]  You don't have to wait.
[20:28.580 --> 20:30.280]  You don't have to wait.
[20:34.180 --> 20:34.940]  You can't...
[20:34.940 --> 20:35.940]  You won't do it until it picks up.
[20:36.520 --> 20:37.400]  I think the, uh...
[20:37.400 --> 20:40.180]  The country direct number that we call is being routed through AT&T.
[20:45.400 --> 20:45.880]  Hello?
[20:47.660 --> 20:48.140]  Hola?
[20:53.740 --> 20:55.040]  It's not loud enough.
[21:12.030 --> 21:14.510]  We'll just try this one more time here.
[21:17.730 --> 21:19.750]  A lot of this takes a lot of experimentation to do it.
[21:19.810 --> 21:20.650]  I'm really doing this cold.
[21:27.590 --> 21:32.830]  We lengthened the length of the clear port so it should, uh...
[21:32.830 --> 21:34.410]  It should have a better chance of getting it.
[21:47.460 --> 21:50.320]  This should connect to the operator, uh...
[21:50.320 --> 21:51.600]  But notice when you do this...
[21:53.400 --> 21:54.280]  It clears the line.
[21:58.560 --> 21:58.920]  Yes.
[21:59.240 --> 22:00.960]  But you also have to seize it at 2400.
[22:01.300 --> 22:01.560]  Yeah.
[22:06.140 --> 22:11.160]  It might help if we were directly connected to the line.
[22:11.660 --> 22:12.800]  It's not always possible to...
[22:12.800 --> 22:14.360]  Yeah, the tones have to be right at the right level.
[22:14.520 --> 22:15.120]  But, uh...
[22:15.120 --> 22:16.860]  You got the idea where it disconnects the line.
[22:17.020 --> 22:20.400]  And if the tone levels were set right, it would probably actually, uh...
[22:20.400 --> 22:21.340]  process the call.
[22:26.640 --> 22:28.860]  Yes, R1 is, uh...
[22:28.860 --> 22:29.940]  used extensively in the U.S.
[22:30.020 --> 22:33.280]  Though the 2600 part of R1 is, uh...
[22:33.280 --> 22:33.900]  not, uh...
[22:33.900 --> 22:35.360]  very commonly used.
[22:35.560 --> 22:38.240]  It's used in a few places, and it's used in the emergency sometimes.
[22:38.800 --> 22:41.740]  But how it generally works is that, uh...
[22:41.740 --> 22:41.860]  uh...
[22:41.860 --> 22:49.780]  out-of-band signaling, either a tone that's beyond the audio range, or a common channel, or even a DC form of signaling, are used to, uh...
[22:50.260 --> 22:51.480]  clear the line and seize it.
[22:52.120 --> 22:58.600]  And then ordinary MF tones, usually at the same rate we're using here, are sent down the line to, uh...
[22:58.600 --> 22:59.260]  put the call through.
[22:59.260 --> 23:01.620]  It is very possible to dial, uh...
[23:01.620 --> 23:06.760]  a zero-plus number, even an operator, click the switch up for just the right amount of time.
[23:06.780 --> 23:11.920]  I found it takes about three seconds down here, a long time, to put it down, and then up, and it goes...
[23:11.920 --> 23:12.680]  ker-clack.
[23:13.000 --> 23:14.460]  And then we send the tones over.
[23:14.640 --> 23:16.340]  If you know what you're sending, you can, uh...
[23:17.080 --> 23:17.900]  you can dial a number.
[23:17.900 --> 23:20.000]  I found that, uh...
[23:20.000 --> 23:21.000]  that it is possible here.
[23:21.020 --> 23:24.900]  I was experimenting with some pay phones, without a box, but just experimenting to see if I could get a trunk.
[23:25.520 --> 23:30.800]  And if you tell if you get a trunk, if you wait like 15 seconds, and it says, I'm sorry, you're calling to not go through.
[23:31.900 --> 23:33.680]  Then you know you had an open trunk.
[23:33.920 --> 23:35.100]  That recording is the giveaway.
[23:35.440 --> 23:38.420]  The recording is just played when no signaling was received.
[23:39.100 --> 23:48.860]  Now what you have to do, and this was talked about in the social engineering, uh... workshop, and I felt, and I think everyone felt it a lot more here, is that, uh...
[23:48.860 --> 23:52.420]  you signal the number you're calling, and then you have to end with the code 11.
[23:52.600 --> 23:54.300]  They call it STP or something here.
[23:55.500 --> 23:56.760]  I'll shut this off.
[23:57.880 --> 23:58.800]  They call it...
[23:58.800 --> 23:59.460]  that's the...
[23:59.460 --> 24:01.920]  that's the slip trying to call back and reestablish the connection.
[24:03.140 --> 24:04.560]  So you call, uh...
[24:05.560 --> 24:06.380]  so you, uh...
[24:06.380 --> 24:07.320]  which is distracting, but...
[24:07.320 --> 24:12.400]  so you go KP1, which is called KP, then the phone number, and then, uh...
[24:12.400 --> 24:12.960]  code 11.
[24:13.740 --> 24:16.740]  And that is immediately followed by the A&I number.
[24:17.160 --> 24:18.420]  And that is ended with ST.
[24:18.700 --> 24:20.100]  This is all ran together in a string.
[24:20.560 --> 24:22.380]  At that point, the call goes through.
[24:22.500 --> 24:26.200]  And whatever A&I number you put on there, is the number that call is going to be billed to.
[24:26.380 --> 24:29.660]  And of course, the number that will show up on anyone's caller ID, or A&I, or whatever.
[24:30.020 --> 24:32.980]  So here you have a very easy way to defeat the A&I.
[24:33.180 --> 24:37.260]  You have a method of doing it that does not involve sending 2600 hertz over the...
[24:37.980 --> 24:39.580]  over the phone line, which is, uh...
[24:39.580 --> 24:40.600]  where they catch people here.
[24:40.600 --> 24:41.900]  And generally, it works.
[24:42.060 --> 24:42.860]  In fact, uh...
[24:42.860 --> 24:44.480]  many years ago, uh...
[24:44.480 --> 24:48.060]  beyond the statute of limitations, I was calling Europe every day from home, and, uh...
[24:48.060 --> 24:48.760]  I never got hassled.
[24:49.180 --> 24:50.700]  Only got hassled for a lot of other things.
[24:51.240 --> 24:51.720]  But, uh...
[24:51.720 --> 24:52.120]  not that.
[24:52.660 --> 24:56.280]  So, in Bell, you're saying, like, all these data numbers?
[24:56.920 --> 24:57.740]  Well, I...
[24:57.740 --> 25:00.380]  I heard a rumor from someone, uh...
[25:00.380 --> 25:04.040]  in Pacific Bell, that some of the cash registers that... that...
[25:04.040 --> 25:06.440]  that do ATM charges, uh...
[25:06.440 --> 25:11.360]  in supermarkets, for some reason, generate 2600 hertz every once in a while.
[25:11.640 --> 25:14.880]  So, they constantly get messages there, and they just seem to ignore them.
[25:16.040 --> 25:16.520]  Um...
[25:16.520 --> 25:20.100]  I've singled quite a bit, you know, from the states, and I've never...
[25:20.100 --> 25:21.260]  never had any problems.
[25:22.840 --> 25:25.260]  It just seems that they've sort of forgotten about us.
[25:26.380 --> 25:28.700]  Well, freaking boxing, I mean, was officially dead, what?
[25:29.240 --> 25:30.080]  10 years ago?
[25:30.860 --> 25:31.440]  At least?
[25:31.620 --> 25:34.240]  I mean, it's been officially dead for years, and I guess it's officially dead.
[25:34.440 --> 25:36.140]  As far as officials are concerned, it's dead.
[25:36.580 --> 25:36.840]  All right.
[25:39.460 --> 25:39.860]  Um...
[25:48.980 --> 25:53.820]  It's echoing if there's any other extraneous sounds coming in, that, uh...
[25:53.820 --> 25:54.960]  that interferes with it.
[25:54.960 --> 25:57.080]  Coupling to the mouthpiece is very important.
[25:57.260 --> 25:58.660]  And this is a demonstrator box.
[25:58.820 --> 26:01.060]  This is not intended to, uh, even be used for treating it.
[26:01.160 --> 26:03.080]  This is a box that demonstrates the debugger.
[26:03.160 --> 26:03.920]  It's got eight on the speaker.
[26:04.040 --> 26:06.360]  You're supposed to use something out of a telephone, like this.
[26:07.340 --> 26:07.960]  So, uh...
[26:07.960 --> 26:09.100]  It's really not wrong equipment.
[26:09.500 --> 26:11.760]  I'm surprised it even cleared in line in the first place.
[26:15.210 --> 26:15.990]  So, yes.
[26:16.090 --> 26:18.370]  Coupling is all-important, and, uh...
[26:18.370 --> 26:21.010]  Where loop-watching is very common, as in Europe.
[26:21.590 --> 26:22.490]  Especially in Holland.
[26:23.550 --> 26:23.990]  Uh...
[26:23.990 --> 26:26.030]  The level can often be live within one dB.
[26:26.330 --> 26:28.810]  If you're more than one dB away, it says, fuck you.
[26:28.910 --> 26:29.590]  And there's no call.
[26:31.110 --> 26:31.550]  Back there.
[26:40.680 --> 26:41.160]  Uh...
[26:41.160 --> 26:43.800]  I can't speak for the Digicom modem, but, uh...
[26:44.220 --> 26:48.820]  The Zyxol modem most definitely can be used to do anything this device does.
[26:49.080 --> 26:53.560]  But a very additional bonus, a very good bonus, is that it can actually listen to what's coming back.
[26:53.820 --> 26:55.720]  So it can make freaking totally automated.
[26:55.720 --> 26:56.860]  And they're...
[26:56.860 --> 26:59.280]  And the company does supply, uh...
[26:59.280 --> 27:01.960]  Supply you with the tools to make it do anything you want it to do.
[27:02.660 --> 27:03.060]  I mean, that...
[27:03.060 --> 27:06.540]  If you happen to have one of those expensive things, it's a good alternative to this.
[27:07.960 --> 27:08.680]  I have...
[27:08.680 --> 27:09.960]  Only the high-speed phone, of course.
[27:10.960 --> 27:11.760]  I have...
[27:12.460 --> 27:13.060]  I have...
[27:13.060 --> 27:13.400]  It does sell...
[27:13.400 --> 27:16.440]  14, 16 plus, which is like...
[27:17.360 --> 27:17.860]  That's it.
[27:18.020 --> 27:18.180]  Yeah.
[27:18.780 --> 27:19.340]  It will work.
[27:20.160 --> 27:20.560]  Um...
[27:20.560 --> 27:21.340]  Yeah, because it does...
[27:21.340 --> 27:24.240]  It says it does voicemail, and it does all that stuff.
[27:24.240 --> 27:25.680]  It does in terms of listening.
[27:26.400 --> 27:27.240]  It's not...
[27:27.880 --> 27:28.200]  It's okay.
[27:28.240 --> 27:31.040]  Well, that thing will do anything we can do with the phone line.
[27:31.360 --> 27:31.900]  It's not again.
[27:32.120 --> 27:32.200]  Okay.
[27:32.900 --> 27:33.840]  What's the name of the movie?
[27:34.040 --> 27:34.300]  Yeah.
[27:34.300 --> 27:34.740]  It's a pixel.
[27:36.020 --> 27:37.020]  What do you say it here?
[27:37.360 --> 27:37.800]  Zeinsault.
[27:38.240 --> 27:38.680]  Zeinsault?
[27:39.040 --> 27:39.160]  Yeah.
[27:40.820 --> 27:41.260]  Okay.
[27:42.240 --> 27:43.640]  It's a very common mode.
[27:43.900 --> 27:45.280]  I mean, they're all over the place.
[27:45.800 --> 27:46.200]  Yeah.
[27:46.660 --> 27:48.140]  All of the documentation, man.
[27:48.520 --> 27:48.760]  And...
[27:48.760 --> 27:49.760]  Good question.
[27:54.580 --> 27:55.140]  Yes.
[27:59.900 --> 28:02.360]  When you call it in Nashville, do you ever hear this phone?
[28:02.720 --> 28:03.240]  Yeah.
[28:03.340 --> 28:04.020]  Where are you calling?
[28:06.020 --> 28:11.060]  When you call France, uh, uh, it's probably going out over in Task 8.
[28:11.380 --> 28:15.040]  Task 8 mostly uses, uh, uses common channel.
[28:15.040 --> 28:15.680]  It's a, uh...
[28:15.680 --> 28:16.720]  Yeah, it's all about 1990.
[28:16.940 --> 28:18.240]  It's a signaling system 7.
[28:18.420 --> 28:19.400]  I shouldn't call it common channel.
[28:19.600 --> 28:20.100]  That's a good one.
[28:20.440 --> 28:21.200]  After 1990.
[28:22.960 --> 28:25.160]  How did you actually call it in Russia?
[28:27.240 --> 28:29.480]  Uh, Russia, you're almost certainly...
[28:29.480 --> 28:30.980]  You're probably going to go into London.
[28:31.400 --> 28:35.020]  And then from London, it will go on a C5 circuit to Moscow.
[28:35.500 --> 28:36.520]  It's very likely to be a C5.
[28:36.520 --> 28:39.180]  It may even be a bizarre system that fuses like all time.
[28:44.320 --> 28:44.720]  Uh,
[28:47.740 --> 28:48.920]  now this is the story here.
[28:49.280 --> 28:51.580]  Uh, uh, I have schematics to it.
[28:51.640 --> 28:52.240]  It won't be any good.
[28:52.400 --> 28:57.360]  It requires a, uh, HC-705 CA, which is a processor program.
[28:57.720 --> 29:01.540]  And you have to get the, you have to use our software, that processor.
[29:01.540 --> 29:07.380]  Of course, we don't sell the software on a disk because it would be distributed on, uh, on both boards and on the nets and what have you.
[29:08.060 --> 29:10.980]  You can get the, you can get the kit and the chip.
[29:11.080 --> 29:12.900]  You buy the chip, the kit is thrown in free.
[29:13.060 --> 29:16.380]  It's only like about 50 kilos or $30 worth of parts.
[29:17.360 --> 29:18.960]  You can no longer get it from us anymore.
[29:19.160 --> 29:23.300]  We have, uh, turned this over to, uh, to the Chaos Computer Club and we get it through them.
[29:23.600 --> 29:25.060]  In fact, here's the person we talked to.
[29:25.480 --> 29:26.400]  We should stand up to.
[29:27.420 --> 29:28.080]  This is Andy.
[29:28.840 --> 29:30.240]  How much are they going to be your own city?
[29:30.640 --> 29:31.040]  $500.
[29:31.660 --> 29:34.740]  Uh, they're only about 350 bucks.
[29:34.920 --> 29:40.780]  But, uh, I think there will be some, uh, some, uh, from 2600 issues doing them directly in the U.S.
[29:40.860 --> 29:44.000]  So, there will be an end, one of the 2600 issues.
[29:44.500 --> 29:49.220]  Um, I can't say the phrase now because of the time we only have the big kids.
[29:49.580 --> 29:52.160]  They are, uh, on the size, you know, that...
[29:52.160 --> 29:53.340]  In fact, who is this for a unit?
[29:53.340 --> 29:57.740]  And, uh, normally we have a luxury model which is just a special ladder.
[29:57.980 --> 30:01.560]  And, uh, we try out, uh, maybe that's a manufacturer.
[30:02.560 --> 30:06.520]  Because, uh, it's maybe a little bit better when you're in a...
[30:06.520 --> 30:09.440]  Uh, you know, we've got such a number of items there.
[30:10.000 --> 30:12.860]  We have lots of...
[30:16.610 --> 30:22.010]  Okay, I mean, uh, I guess I'm kind of playing on the last workshop is that we've been talking about three calls.
[30:22.350 --> 30:26.250]  And I understand that, uh, that the people do tend to be poorer out here.
[30:26.510 --> 30:28.970]  And, uh, and, uh, we want to make free calls.
[30:32.410 --> 30:37.910]  No, I'm just saying in American general, people, uh, they, you know, the average, uh, standard of living is a little bit poorer.
[30:38.070 --> 30:40.030]  And I think some people are starving students.
[30:40.450 --> 30:41.830]  There's a lot of those that are not too old.
[30:42.670 --> 30:43.750]  We want to make free calls.
[30:43.910 --> 30:49.430]  But really the reason for doing this is to, uh, so know that you can do it and also have a way of agent calls.
[30:49.430 --> 30:56.150]  Like, hey, for example, uh, uh, my housemate, Rob, was, uh, was in Moscow with the tank stool and the coup happened.
[30:56.710 --> 30:59.550]  You think you can dial Moscow by, uh, using 011?
[31:00.290 --> 31:04.230]  If you think so, uh, think again because, uh, or there would be 09.
[31:04.450 --> 31:05.130]  It was not possible.
[31:05.650 --> 31:08.350]  So, uh, by having one of these, it was very easy.
[31:08.550 --> 31:18.010]  It was very easy to go to another country, use a, uh, a priority code, and essentially dump off the person that would talk to the longest to Moscow on that trunk and then take that line.
[31:24.650 --> 31:26.350]  And AT&T will make it happen.
[31:26.650 --> 31:26.950]  Yes.
[31:27.650 --> 31:28.250]  Well, yeah.
[31:29.330 --> 31:45.450]  AT&T will definitely make it happen if you're, uh, you, you can, uh, I mean, I, again, I didn't, I mean, I can demonstrate before exploring, but, uh, I think too many people would take this as a thought opportunity and I know the, the, the feds here are not too happy about the whole thing.
[31:45.730 --> 31:48.590]  Malik says that you use one of these things, it's not even getting a free call.
[31:48.750 --> 31:50.690]  I mean, that's, it's, it's, it's hiddly stuff.
[31:50.870 --> 31:53.730]  It's that, you use one of these things, big brother can't really watch it.
[31:54.310 --> 31:56.050]  It all becomes untraceable.
[31:56.190 --> 31:56.770]  I think that's the reason.
[31:57.270 --> 31:57.530]  Ah.
[31:58.690 --> 32:05.650]  So, uh, I'm a little bit funny about actually saying, this is what I do it step by step, but I can outline the, uh, the mindset.
[32:05.650 --> 32:09.250]  I've already been through this before with the magnetic stripes on another workshop.
[32:09.830 --> 32:17.810]  Uh, but the basic, uh, hacker mindset is, if you have that mindset, this is no problem because it's, uh, like any other hack, it works exactly the same.
[32:17.950 --> 32:23.750]  It doesn't matter if it's computers, boot boxes, magnetic cards, chip cards, any hack, it all works the same.
[32:24.430 --> 32:31.630]  You just gotta be clever and take the problem step by step and not be impatient and jump from step deep to step deep to step deep.
[32:31.730 --> 32:32.290]  You can't do that.
[32:32.390 --> 32:34.590]  You have to do it one step at a time.
[32:35.570 --> 32:42.310]  And, uh, in terms of, uh, use of the box, this requires, uh, probably more persistence than just by anything else.
[32:43.910 --> 32:44.390]  What?
[32:48.030 --> 33:05.270]  This is what's very funny here is that, uh, uh, the, the North America country number zone one, uh, uh, uses, goes out and there's signals to say the line is busy and it sends the signal back to give a local busy or say the signal is green, give a local ring.
[33:05.770 --> 33:06.630]  That's C-7.
[33:07.110 --> 33:07.990]  That's C-7.
[33:08.210 --> 33:08.470]  That's C-7.
[33:09.090 --> 33:09.330]  Right.
[33:09.630 --> 33:11.710]  I know it's really ringing in Russia.
[33:13.820 --> 33:18.760]  It may be ringing in Russia because what's really happening is London is saying it's ringing.
[33:19.500 --> 33:21.040]  London's telling you Russia's green.
[33:23.900 --> 33:26.220]  No, because London's, uh, C-7.
[33:26.820 --> 33:28.840]  They call it to you for the data channel.
[33:29.160 --> 33:29.920]  Why'd you go up, Granny?
[33:30.120 --> 33:30.660]  That's fine.
[33:31.120 --> 33:32.120]  Save lines.
[33:32.420 --> 33:35.260]  Only money to make you gather in your voice channel.
[33:35.460 --> 33:35.700]  No.
[33:36.180 --> 33:38.080]  So this is what you call a channel anymore.
[33:38.080 --> 33:38.640]  It's not all rings.
[33:38.780 --> 33:43.440]  It's something like, uh, like, uh, like, uh,
[33:49.670 --> 33:50.390]  So that's a bridge.
[33:51.290 --> 33:51.630]  Yeah.
[33:51.830 --> 33:55.350]  It's like, uh, Yeah.
[33:55.830 --> 33:58.190]  It rang like that and Russia's like, get up.
[33:59.490 --> 33:59.870]  Yeah.
[34:00.230 --> 34:06.870]  You don't understand how it's saying that this is, what C-7 is doing is it, it, uh, is told the other side of the ring.
[34:07.370 --> 34:08.950]  You must trust this, this is a ring.
[34:09.170 --> 34:10.050]  It's trusting Moscow.
[34:10.230 --> 34:10.990]  Moscow's saying, C-8 okay.
[34:11.470 --> 34:11.690]  It's ring.
[34:11.910 --> 34:13.510]  Moscow's telling England it's ring.
[34:14.870 --> 34:17.810]  England's telling, uh, telling C-7 here it's ring.
[34:18.470 --> 34:20.290]  You don't know it's really ringing, it's really good 빨리.
[34:20.330 --> 34:23.330]  In fact some times there's a problem, and you'll hear it ring and then you're busy.
[34:25.530 --> 34:25.890]  Yeah.
[34:26.210 --> 34:29.710]  And sometimes you call people and you'll hear it ring and everything sounds normal to you're getting busy.
[34:30.190 --> 34:36.750]  Then when you finally get this through the person, you'll finally find out you harass the person directly Because you call to a phone and I think 30 times it's been over here.
[34:45.260 --> 34:46.280]  Why should I ever stop?
[34:46.500 --> 34:47.260]  I mean, that's traditional.
[34:49.180 --> 34:51.740]  They will probably... that's the British ring.
[34:52.140 --> 34:54.260]  They even drive on the left side of the screen.
[34:58.800 --> 35:02.420]  Well, every country has a right to use its own ring and its own business.
[35:03.120 --> 35:03.560]  What?
[35:04.000 --> 35:04.980]  I didn't say the bear.
[35:05.280 --> 35:05.580]  No.
[35:06.440 --> 35:07.740]  I mean, most systems...
[35:09.580 --> 35:17.540]  Most systems use a single tone for a ring, 440 hertz or 430 hertz in some places.
[35:17.780 --> 35:20.040]  So you don't use the small tones to your instruments.
[35:21.400 --> 35:25.280]  And a typical ring is one second on and two seconds off.
[35:25.560 --> 35:27.380]  Which is much faster than the ring here.
[35:28.880 --> 35:37.040]  So, I mean, if you compare the phones of the world to the US system, you have no idea what the phone system is going to lie.
[35:37.260 --> 35:42.060]  The USA and Canada are completely isolated from the rest of the world.
[35:42.420 --> 35:43.660]  So, how about that same ring?
[35:44.120 --> 35:44.420]  Go ahead.
[35:44.580 --> 35:44.880]  What?
[35:48.080 --> 35:50.420]  The rings are completely different to everyone else in the world.
[35:50.680 --> 35:51.500]  What about Mexico?
[35:52.300 --> 35:55.500]  Mexico uses a standard, uh, international, uh, ring.
[35:56.280 --> 35:59.380]  Which is, uh, one second, uh, 440 on and two seconds off.
[35:59.700 --> 36:05.760]  So if you call through, uh, all through AT&T, you can probably get here to, uh, the ring you're used to hear from the public store.
[36:21.430 --> 36:21.870]  Okay.
[36:21.870 --> 36:22.310]  Okay.
[36:24.750 --> 36:26.970]  Remember, I'm not, uh, a tonicoder.
[36:27.110 --> 36:30.450]  I know some people can actually, uh, become a tones in their head.
[36:41.290 --> 36:42.150]  Thanks, I move.
[36:45.010 --> 36:46.470]  Oh, we got a question back to that.
[36:49.070 --> 36:51.790]  I've, uh, read this, uh, in 2600.
[36:57.350 --> 37:01.330]  I would trust it, but it probably is true, but I wouldn't trust your, uh, freedom on it.
[37:01.610 --> 37:02.830]  You don't have to use 2600.
[37:03.550 --> 37:05.550]  That, that's one point I was trying to get across.
[37:08.010 --> 37:11.790]  But, uh, if you do a hit and run like in a big one, I don't see a problem.
[37:14.230 --> 37:15.350]  Just know what you're doing.
[37:15.530 --> 37:16.570]  That's the most important thing.
[37:16.690 --> 37:18.450]  It will still work completely through the SS.
[37:20.130 --> 37:22.810]  If they monitor it, they might, might, might work.
[37:22.970 --> 37:24.930]  They might get it, but I don't see why they monitor it.
[37:24.930 --> 37:29.690]  Why would a local, uh, Bell operating company care about, uh, MCI or AT&T?
[37:30.530 --> 37:31.510]  It's not their business.
[37:31.510 --> 37:34.210]  Because they have, because they have some, uh, some sort of a level.
[37:34.390 --> 37:39.410]  So, have you, by 10.600 coming from the local head into the CO.
[37:39.690 --> 37:45.070]  But I'm saying, since the breakup, why would, uh, local phone office, uh, I'm asking this question, maybe someone knows an answer.
[37:45.330 --> 37:48.690]  Why would the local phone office make their business to, uh, to Karen?
[37:49.410 --> 37:50.150]  That's what I thought.
[37:50.330 --> 37:53.430]  They should be in the hand, but mostly sometimes they still pay.
[37:53.430 --> 37:56.070]  It's because, uh, they, they want to cooperatively charge.
[37:57.190 --> 38:09.070]  Once, uh, once, once he was talking to one of the, uh, technical representatives, they said, uh, they said, uh, they said, as long as you don't use their lines, you don't buy the gas, they don't get that much of it.
[38:12.870 --> 38:16.470]  Well, you lose their lines at least to access the, uh, the carrier.
[38:17.230 --> 38:24.030]  I mean, what I was describing on the OSPS, you can, you can use their, uh, I used to call it a milking machine of some sort.
[38:25.510 --> 38:27.470]  Operate your, uh, service position system.
[38:28.750 --> 38:31.950]  It used to be like, uh, TOPS, TSPS, it's called a lot of things.
[38:33.070 --> 38:37.330]  If you clump that off, uh, you'll get into a machine where you can choose your carrier.
[38:37.330 --> 38:38.990]  You know, OSPI, AT&T, Sprint.
[38:39.810 --> 38:43.030]  I can say, I can speak to California, the default carrier is AT&T.
[38:43.130 --> 38:44.190]  You'll specify a carrier.
[38:44.490 --> 38:48.110]  You get AT&T if, uh, if the phone company admits to it or not.
[38:48.570 --> 38:49.750]  AT&T becomes the default.
[38:53.030 --> 38:56.430]  Uh, we're ready to say, but, uh, uh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
[38:57.070 --> 38:57.470]  Okay.
[39:01.060 --> 39:04.880]  This is just a tape of an international collectible being made from a pay phone.
[39:05.000 --> 39:08.280]  An NTE, um, I don't know what operators will use in 1990.
[39:08.280 --> 39:09.100]  It's raining.
[39:09.100 --> 39:09.420]  Yes, it is.
[39:09.900 --> 39:10.640]  It's just you.
[39:10.760 --> 39:12.000]  It would break it, of course.
[39:12.420 --> 39:21.280]  So, what we'll be hearing is, um, don't leave zero, and then asking the operator to replace the collectible to France, to Paris, France.
[39:22.020 --> 39:23.640]  Um, we're not calling anybody in particular.
[39:23.820 --> 39:24.680]  We're just making out names.
[39:24.680 --> 39:32.600]  The response to a national call from an AP from an MTE.
[39:35.660 --> 39:37.420]  It's raining, the operator.
[39:38.460 --> 39:39.840]  Good morning, Mr. Charitman.
[39:40.160 --> 39:41.900]  Yes, I like to call France, correct?
[39:42.740 --> 39:43.500]  And two.
[39:45.880 --> 39:47.560]  Country code, city code is number.
[39:47.960 --> 39:49.540]  Three-three is the country code.
[39:49.680 --> 39:51.360]  One is the city code and the number is...
[40:08.800 --> 40:10.040]  One is the second one.
[40:12.380 --> 40:16.000]  I just want to know, what was the sequence of tones?
[40:16.500 --> 40:21.240]  There was one sequence of tones plus another sequence of blue box tones.
[40:21.240 --> 40:24.020]  And then some other tone on top of the blue box tones.
[40:24.120 --> 40:24.880]  Could you just explain?
[40:25.140 --> 40:26.340]  And then the picking up...
[40:26.340 --> 40:30.560]  Okay, there are two systems involved here.
[40:30.660 --> 40:32.960]  There was R1 involved and C5.
[40:33.580 --> 40:37.340]  The first thing you heard was a connection to the International Center.
[40:37.440 --> 40:43.500]  They used to use codes like 186, 182, or now it's just 188 thing and you'll get a sensor.
[40:43.540 --> 40:46.180]  So now that's what they were dialing, 182...
[40:46.180 --> 40:49.040]  KP1, 182, ST.
[40:49.300 --> 40:50.460]  That was the first set of tones.
[40:50.460 --> 40:53.880]  And the equipment automatically listened for a tone to come on the line.
[40:54.800 --> 40:56.200]  That was the...
[40:56.200 --> 40:57.020]  Yeah, here.
[40:57.580 --> 40:59.440]  And then that tone came on.
[40:59.660 --> 41:01.280]  It dialed the number in France.
[41:01.420 --> 41:03.480]  It went KP1, 0.
[41:03.700 --> 41:04.640]  Is it a discriminating digit?
[41:05.580 --> 41:07.140]  331, plus whatever number she did.
[41:07.640 --> 41:08.180]  And ST.
[41:08.980 --> 41:11.300]  Okay, next it went on to the...
[41:11.300 --> 41:12.580]  There was a little pause then.
[41:12.900 --> 41:14.480]  Next it went on to the C5 circuit.
[41:15.720 --> 41:21.940]  Then it went KP1, and then it went KP1, 0, when it was in France.
[41:22.320 --> 41:23.800]  0, and then another.
[41:23.800 --> 41:26.160]  In other words, as it picked up?
[41:26.340 --> 41:27.000]  Is that what you're talking about?
[41:27.440 --> 41:28.840]  No, from the sender...
[41:28.840 --> 41:30.900]  It went to the sender and dialed the number in the sender.
[41:31.120 --> 41:32.380]  Which turned around...
[41:32.380 --> 41:35.500]  It's a machine that has trunks going to all places in the world.
[41:35.500 --> 41:37.780]  It seized the C5 line to France.
[41:38.600 --> 41:39.220]  Nice thing.
[41:40.140 --> 41:43.760]  And then, since it was a terminal call to France, it dialed KP1, 0.
[41:44.440 --> 41:45.960]  Say all the lines to France were busy.
[41:46.100 --> 41:47.140]  It might have gone to Norway.
[41:47.400 --> 41:51.700]  Then it would have gone KP2, 3, 3, because KP2 means country code as a follow-up.
[41:51.800 --> 41:54.160]  It would have done 3, 3, and then it would have done 0 as a number.
[41:54.300 --> 42:02.780]  I have another example of me calling international directory assistance in London, and I got a recording that all circuit's information is busy.
[42:02.780 --> 42:03.760]  I could play you that one.
[42:03.760 --> 42:05.360]  That may be a little different.
[42:07.260 --> 42:07.820]  Okay.
[42:08.320 --> 42:08.940]  We'll wait for that.
[42:09.100 --> 42:09.760]  Is there any questions?
[42:10.340 --> 42:25.080]  Do you guys realize that a lot of the briefing that goes on in the United States today originated because of back in the 60s and the late 60s with the tax that they added on to our phone bills because of the Vietnam War?
[42:26.980 --> 42:27.540]  I...
[42:27.540 --> 42:27.980]  Yeah.
[42:28.400 --> 42:31.620]  I know people all know about that, but...
[42:31.620 --> 42:34.540]  Well, I guess I'm older than I look.
[42:34.700 --> 42:36.920]  I mean, I came, like, within about two years of that party.
[42:37.580 --> 42:37.780]  Okay.
[42:41.960 --> 42:44.080]  I guess I was just ignoring them.
[42:44.260 --> 42:49.400]  And then, and then, well, what happened was, then, there was a magazine out called Overthrow.
[42:49.720 --> 42:50.840]  That was published.
[42:50.940 --> 42:51.120]  Yeah.
[42:51.360 --> 42:52.800]  And then she...
[42:52.800 --> 42:58.140]  I wish there was a set of headphones to queue this up with.
[43:04.380 --> 43:05.260]  But, um...
[43:05.260 --> 43:11.160]  But the thing is, there was a magazine put out by, uh, a litur,
[43:14.450 --> 43:15.990]  put out the credit card books.
[43:16.130 --> 43:17.370]  And they were very simple.
[43:17.990 --> 43:19.270]  Um, they weren't what they are now.
[43:19.390 --> 43:25.250]  What they are now is, like, their calling card is essentially, I believe, it's a random number, we have to...
[43:25.250 --> 43:29.010]  You believe it's a random number, but I have somebody here who can tell you who's different.
[43:29.250 --> 43:31.890]  You might even be allowed to use some software to tell you who we have.
[43:32.270 --> 43:33.050]  But I'll leave it to him.
[43:33.170 --> 43:34.570]  I'd like to hear that.
[43:35.270 --> 43:36.570]  Um, what we're having.
[43:36.930 --> 43:38.610]  You'll go up here and talk about it if you want.
[43:39.010 --> 43:40.410]  Substitution code that went on in fact.
[43:40.410 --> 43:40.770]  Yes.
[43:41.210 --> 43:41.670]  I wear that.
[43:42.270 --> 43:43.090]  And they'd always...
[43:43.090 --> 43:47.350]  TAP had always published what it was going to be, uh, months before the new credit cards came out.
[43:47.510 --> 43:50.550]  And it was, and it was, and it would work on anybody's number, any number.
[43:50.870 --> 43:50.990]  Right.
[43:51.190 --> 43:52.190]  It was on your card.
[43:52.490 --> 43:53.470]  It was like a new system.
[43:54.050 --> 43:55.490]  It needed to know the right in it.
[43:55.670 --> 43:57.570]  It was just a simple check digit.
[43:57.750 --> 44:00.330]  The operator could use a simple little arithmetic and do that.
[44:01.210 --> 44:04.770]  In fact, until recently, you could also use A, B, C, D as a pen.
[44:05.310 --> 44:05.690]  Yes.
[44:05.910 --> 44:08.650]  That was funny how this was wide open for about six months.
[44:08.650 --> 44:11.690]  And, uh, it seemed like I was no way found out about it.
[44:11.710 --> 44:12.450]  People selling goods.
[44:12.650 --> 44:15.230]  It was such a joke that I had to use A, B, C, D with any numbers.
[44:15.590 --> 44:17.030]  Even a 5x5 number.
[44:17.170 --> 44:18.710]  He was saying, thank you for using AT&T.
[44:18.870 --> 44:19.330]  Thank you, Paul.
[44:20.830 --> 44:25.410]  But, uh, from an ethical standpoint, there's nothing wrong with doing that because nobody's getting the phone bill.
[44:26.350 --> 44:30.090]  I mean, with the A, B, C, D trick, I could put the phone bill on anybody who wanted.
[44:30.310 --> 44:30.990]  Call Maricent.
[44:31.150 --> 44:35.910]  AT&T charges a lot more than, uh, a $700 a minute office telling about it.
[44:36.030 --> 44:37.310]  That's a long, that's a long guy.
[44:38.250 --> 44:48.990]  Yes, it disappeared and they were, uh, they called one of my friends that was using it heavily, saying, uh, we're not going to try to charge you for the calls, but we could not figure out how you completely, uh, uh, impact our system.
[44:49.110 --> 44:50.150]  They wanted to know how it was done.
[44:50.150 --> 44:52.070]  How would, what, what, what happened?
[44:52.250 --> 44:53.910]  A, B, C, D, B, the extra program.
[44:53.950 --> 44:54.750]  Yeah, extra program.
[44:55.190 --> 44:56.390]  What, what were these doing?
[44:56.930 --> 44:59.350]  You just used, that was, uh, the test pin.
[44:59.930 --> 45:01.350]  They, there's still a test pin.
[45:01.610 --> 45:01.930]  Oh!
[45:01.930 --> 45:02.790]  That involves fourth code.
[45:02.870 --> 45:03.030]  Oh!
[45:03.770 --> 45:04.110]  Yes!
[45:04.570 --> 45:06.410]  A, B, C, D was, uh, the university.
[45:06.410 --> 45:15.850]  There's, uh, there's still this one, but, uh, there's actually, uh, there's actually, uh, there's actually an algorithm that determines your normal pin, the natural pin.
[45:16.190 --> 45:18.030]  Uh, I mean, it's a checksum.
[45:18.110 --> 45:22.830]  It takes the pin and the calling card number, puts it in an algorithm that spits out as good as that.
[45:23.750 --> 45:30.950]  So, if you go through, uh, so if you go through, uh, so if you go through all the combinations with these checks, you can, uh, you can take a number and find your pin.
[45:31.150 --> 45:34.070]  With the, uh, 486, you can do about 40 seconds or so, I believe.
[45:38.250 --> 45:44.630]  Now they can change it, but if you pick your own pin, then when it goes to check, it has to go online and check it, and it takes a lot of prices long for it to set up.
[45:45.710 --> 45:55.610]  So, there is an advantage of having the check right there, because you call it a through picker, but, uh, sure, it's easy to hack that, uh, but I imagine you could, uh, make a pin for, uh, members of line in the phone company.
[45:55.770 --> 45:57.450]  It doesn't feel bad about doing it.
[45:57.890 --> 46:02.290]  Okay, but my understanding is that that is, I like the old days.
[46:02.810 --> 46:09.050]  Currently, if it isn't a legitimate calling card assigned to a number, no set of four digits will work.
[46:09.470 --> 46:11.510]  That wasn't the case with A, B, C, and D.
[46:11.730 --> 46:15.250]  Well, that may be an exception, but for the regular one, that's my understanding.
[46:15.590 --> 46:16.390]  Maybe I'm incorrect.
[46:16.630 --> 46:17.510]  I can't guarantee that.
[46:18.010 --> 46:19.070]  Can I say something about it?
[46:19.370 --> 46:20.210]  I don't know.
[46:23.230 --> 46:30.710]  I just want to say that some call cards, the entire call card, the entire call card, they got the A, B, C, D.
[46:31.710 --> 46:33.030]  Actually, it's not A, B, C, D.
[46:33.290 --> 47:02.090]  It's, I can tell you, it's either A, B, C, D, or A, B, C, D, or A, B, C, D, or A, B, C, D, or A, B, C, D, or A.
[47:05.990 --> 47:10.290]  Okay, we have a special guest that's been coming on the phone, so we're going to apply for the phone next.
[47:11.190 --> 47:13.370]  And I think everyone will be surprised.
[47:26.510 --> 47:27.390]  Mark?
[47:28.910 --> 47:29.790]  Eric?
[47:30.410 --> 47:31.110]  Yep, we're here.
[47:31.790 --> 47:32.790]  Mark, are you?
[47:33.470 --> 47:34.250]  What's going on?
[47:46.230 --> 47:48.070]  I can't hear a word he's saying.
[47:48.490 --> 47:49.710]  You can't hear me at all.
[47:50.330 --> 47:51.990]  I can just barely hear you.
[47:52.130 --> 47:53.070]  I'll tell you what he says.
[47:53.730 --> 47:56.170]  Why don't you, can you just patch the call?
[47:58.330 --> 47:58.890]  I'm sorry?
[47:59.230 --> 48:00.050]  I don't know what to say.
[48:00.990 --> 48:02.830]  So Eric, what's going on there?
[48:03.870 --> 48:08.130]  Well, we have several hundred people here listening to your every word.
[48:12.050 --> 48:14.410]  Can I call him directly so I can hear him?
[48:14.990 --> 48:15.890]  Yeah, that's a good idea.
[48:17.970 --> 48:19.930]  I don't think we can take collect calls on this line.
[48:21.310 --> 48:23.490]  I don't think we can take collect calls on this line.
[48:24.970 --> 48:26.870]  He can't take collect calls on that line.
[48:27.110 --> 48:27.610]  Oh, really?
[48:29.050 --> 48:30.250]  Well, do your best, Mark.
[48:30.250 --> 48:38.030]  Yeah, now tell him that we have people here and basically we can have people ask him questions and you can relay the questions to him.
[48:38.230 --> 48:38.530]  Okay, great.
[48:39.030 --> 48:40.970]  There's people who would like to ask you a question, Mark.
[48:41.210 --> 48:43.330]  So I'll tell you what the questions are.
[48:43.330 --> 48:43.410]  All right.
[48:43.990 --> 48:44.370]  Okay.
[48:45.770 --> 48:46.150]  Okay.
[48:46.450 --> 48:46.730]  Go ahead.
[48:47.770 --> 48:48.710]  Oh, you're not raising your hand.
[48:49.850 --> 48:51.230]  Well, why don't you just have a statement?
[48:51.410 --> 48:51.750]  Do you hear him?
[48:52.230 --> 48:52.610]  Yeah.
[48:52.770 --> 48:54.550]  Do you have any statements you want to make?
[48:54.550 --> 48:57.010]  We haven't played your statement yet that you made on tape.
[48:57.730 --> 49:01.670]  We haven't played the statement that you made on tape yet, but is there anything you want to say first?
[49:02.050 --> 49:05.450]  Well, I think I'll just let the statement I made speak for it, so...
[49:06.390 --> 49:08.090]  Okay, but, uh, we haven't played it yet.
[49:09.850 --> 49:10.490]  Okay, after.
[49:11.490 --> 49:15.730]  Okay, um, well, tell us what you had to go through to make this phone call.
[49:16.570 --> 49:18.970]  Tell us what you had to go through to make this phone call.
[49:19.650 --> 49:24.810]  Well, I had to, uh, wait online with, uh, I don't know, I guess half of a dozen, two or dozen people.
[49:26.190 --> 49:29.910]  And, uh, I guess...
[49:30.990 --> 49:31.310]  Hello?
[49:33.030 --> 49:34.850]  I'm sorry, could I ask him to repeat that last part?
[49:34.850 --> 49:36.810]  Can you repeat the last part?
[49:37.230 --> 49:37.810]  The last part.
[49:38.290 --> 49:45.290]  Um, what happened was, uh, they screwed up the phone system over, uh, just about a month ago now.
[49:46.210 --> 49:47.910]  And we can only call Collect.
[49:49.550 --> 49:53.890]  And where previously we paid for our own calls, and we can only call specific numbers.
[49:54.130 --> 49:55.730]  Now anyone can call Collect anywhere.
[49:57.250 --> 50:00.230]  So there's lots of people always waiting to use the phone.
[50:00.450 --> 50:02.030]  Mark, are you able to hear me any better now?
[50:02.230 --> 50:02.670]  Yeah, I can.
[50:02.670 --> 50:06.550]  Okay, let's, uh, let's give Mark that applause again.
[50:06.750 --> 50:07.670]  So he can hear it.
[50:20.180 --> 50:21.380]  You hear that, Mark?
[50:21.620 --> 50:24.460]  Yeah, it was as if I had something in my ear and you pulled it out.
[50:26.980 --> 50:29.600]  Uh, Mark has been in prison since January.
[50:30.260 --> 50:32.920]  Um, on that cold winter day we took you over there.
[50:33.380 --> 50:36.660]  And, uh, last we heard you won't be out till November.
[50:36.840 --> 50:37.220]  Is that correct?
[50:37.420 --> 50:38.720]  Yeah, November 22nd.
[50:39.280 --> 50:39.540]  Okay.
[50:39.860 --> 50:44.180]  Uh, perhaps you can tell us what a, what a typical day at school kill in Pennsylvania is like.
[50:44.180 --> 50:46.240]  Oh, where, where, where can I begin?
[50:46.820 --> 50:53.060]  Um, well, at the present time, at least we get fired from the top of the mission.
[50:53.900 --> 50:57.680]  What I'm doing right now is, uh, what's known as a range orderly.
[50:58.760 --> 51:01.420]  And, uh, orderly being basically janitor.
[51:02.020 --> 51:06.340]  And, uh, ranges are, there's two buildings here that we live in.
[51:06.820 --> 51:13.500]  And each of the two buildings is divided up into four ranges, which are basically like barracks, like in the army or in the military.
[51:14.100 --> 51:15.620]  They're just open queues.
[51:16.100 --> 51:19.940]  And there's, uh, a bunk bed in each queue, and there's two people living in each one.
[51:19.940 --> 51:25.040]  And, uh, range orderly basically does, uh, all those exciting things like mopping the floor.
[51:25.260 --> 51:31.320]  And we use, uh, floor buffers like you see in department stores because they have wax floors.
[51:31.580 --> 51:35.840]  And, uh, apparently they're very anal here about, uh, cleanliness.
[51:39.400 --> 51:45.160]  You've gotten in trouble several times for not, uh, not making your bed or some craziness like that.
[51:45.320 --> 51:46.060]  You want to tell us about that?
[51:46.060 --> 51:57.400]  What happened was when I first got back in the winter time earlier this year, I was, uh, penalized for not having my blanket folded or some kind of nonsense.
[51:57.640 --> 52:05.180]  And I wasn't aware of the fact that I was being penalized then, and I ended up, uh, getting extra duty, which involved, uh, me having to shovel snow.
[52:05.660 --> 52:11.760]  In addition to the fact that I was on, uh, snow detail, or as they would call it, landscaping.
[52:13.120 --> 52:16.220]  But, uh, I was shoveling all the time in the winter time.
[52:21.380 --> 52:33.840]  Uh, well, now, you're allowed to have visitors only on the weekends, and, and, in that case, only a very limited number of people, and you also, um, were limited to a certain number of people making phone calls.
[52:33.840 --> 52:41.280]  Perhaps you could explain what the bureaucratic process and the crap you had to go through, uh, for both of those, both of those privileges was.
[52:41.520 --> 52:41.940]  Okay.
[52:42.240 --> 52:48.900]  For visiting, what we have to do is we have to send out a form to somebody that we want to be added to, or visiting Liz.
[52:49.460 --> 52:52.540]  People just can't show up on a whim and visit us.
[52:53.040 --> 53:00.960]  What they have to do is that they have to fill out the form and return it, which asks all kinds of various personal things about them, like whether or not they're a criminal and so forth.
[53:01.700 --> 53:07.900]  And, um, they add the person to the list, usually within a few weeks, upon getting the form back again.
[53:08.920 --> 53:19.680]  And once that happens, they can come and visit on Saturday and Sunday, and federal holidays, from, uh, about 9 o'clock in the morning until 3 in the afternoon.
[53:20.720 --> 53:28.060]  With the telephones, what we have to do is, um, oh, and by the way, with visitors, we can only have roughly a dozen people on the visiting list.
[53:28.180 --> 53:28.520]  That's it.
[53:29.500 --> 53:38.700]  For the telephones, normally, when they weren't messed up like they are now, we can only have a maximum of 20 people's phone numbers on our telephone list.
[53:38.780 --> 53:40.720]  And again, they have to be pre-approved with forms.
[53:46.080 --> 53:51.920]  Um, I can't really think of much more to ask because I've asked these questions many times, so...
[53:51.920 --> 53:53.820]  Why do you want us to send them, or...
[53:54.240 --> 53:58.180]  Okay, people are asking what, uh, what we should send you, what we can send you.
[53:59.360 --> 54:01.920]  Uh, well, I just, I just like it when people write.
[54:01.920 --> 54:04.380]  I like to hear from people on the outside.
[54:05.060 --> 54:07.640]  People don't really have to worry about sending me anything specific.
[54:08.580 --> 54:11.560]  Because, I mean, I really have everything I need to get along.
[54:12.160 --> 54:15.020]  But I just like to continue to hear from people.
[54:17.400 --> 54:18.620]  Letters, lots of letters.
[54:18.840 --> 54:18.980]  Yeah.
[54:22.260 --> 54:23.240]  Okay, I have another question.
[54:23.240 --> 54:27.020]  Uh, ask him, like, why he hasn't any write back.
[54:27.140 --> 54:30.860]  Because we've written him before asking for visitation, and I've gotten nothing.
[54:31.600 --> 54:32.380]  Are you able to hear that?
[54:32.820 --> 54:33.240]  No, I can't.
[54:33.240 --> 54:33.480]  Aye.
[54:33.740 --> 54:34.480]  Okay, uh...
[54:34.480 --> 54:35.620]  Come is, come is Christian.
[54:35.800 --> 54:45.360]  Uh, Christian is here, and he says hi, and, uh, he wants to know, how come you don't write back when people ask, uh, if, um, if they can visit you and to be added to the visitation list.
[54:45.500 --> 54:46.620]  Is, is there a particular reason?
[54:47.320 --> 54:56.480]  Well, to tell you this truth, the reason why I usually don't write back is that, at least for a while anyway, I was just getting tons and tons of mail.
[54:57.700 --> 55:04.120]  And if I wrote to one person, I would feel guilty about not having written to someone else, because I was just getting so much mail.
[55:04.800 --> 55:10.520]  But aside from that, I was never really big on writing letters, and I hope nobody really takes it personally.
[55:10.520 --> 55:12.360]  I read everybody's mail that I get.
[55:13.360 --> 55:21.240]  And, uh, it kind of depresses me to really have to sit and dwell about, uh, you know, dwell on what it is I'm gonna say to people that I know.
[55:21.240 --> 55:26.100]  When I really have nothing at all to say, because every day here is exactly the same as the next.
[55:26.240 --> 55:29.520]  There's nothing new I possibly have to say to anyone.
[55:30.320 --> 55:36.840]  And I really get a lot more out of hearing from people, because there's so much more going on back in the real world than there is here.
[55:39.500 --> 55:45.420]  Mark, uh, what is it that you, uh, you find you miss being out, uh, on the boondocks there?
[55:45.520 --> 55:47.080]  What are you looking forward to most when you get out?
[55:47.740 --> 55:55.000]  Well, I'm looking forward to a lot of things, but, uh, the very most is probably, uh, just contact with people.
[55:55.740 --> 55:57.100]  With, you know, real people.
[55:57.960 --> 55:59.180]  And, of course, food.
[55:59.380 --> 56:00.960]  The food here is horrendously horrible.
[56:01.740 --> 56:04.720]  I'm looking forward to eating tons and tons of really good food.
[56:05.800 --> 56:08.800]  And, uh, of course, what I like to do for a living, computers.
[56:09.360 --> 56:12.700]  I don't have any contact with any computers of any kind whatsoever.
[56:16.160 --> 56:18.980]  Are you gonna do anything different when you get out?
[56:19.120 --> 56:21.840]  I mean, has your mind been altered by this experience?
[56:23.000 --> 56:36.600]  Well, it's been altered and scrambled up a little bit over the, uh, the past eight months that I've been here, but hopefully I can iron out the creases once I get home and I have time to unwind and get back to reality.
[56:37.540 --> 56:41.580]  But, um, I think I was already on the right track, uh, long before I got here.
[56:41.580 --> 56:43.940]  I'm just gonna continue doing what it was I was doing.
[56:45.320 --> 56:45.800]  Yeah.
[56:47.280 --> 56:48.880]  Okay, do we have any more questions?
[56:49.500 --> 56:50.080]  We have a question.
[56:54.890 --> 56:56.830]  We have a question from Rebel.
[57:01.320 --> 57:01.600]  Okay.
[57:27.490 --> 57:30.490]  Uh, what kind of content do you want within the letters?
[57:32.230 --> 57:33.270]  No, I don't care.
[57:33.710 --> 57:34.610]  Just anything.
[57:34.610 --> 57:38.650]  Um, I want people just to tell me what's going on on the street, just anything.
[57:39.030 --> 57:40.730]  I mean, anything people want to say.
[57:41.430 --> 57:42.690]  Nothing really specific.
[57:45.010 --> 57:45.610]  Okay.
[57:46.390 --> 57:46.710]  Go ahead.
[57:47.010 --> 57:52.550]  I'm curious as to the kinds of restrictions on the literature that's available to him.
[57:52.710 --> 57:56.090]  Is there a restriction on the kinds of literature that's available to him?
[57:56.950 --> 58:04.730]  Yeah, in fact, uh, um, since I'm such a popular guy here, being that I've done these interviews and things, I'm not all too popular with the prison administration.
[58:05.770 --> 58:13.110]  And, uh, my mail gets censored frequently for the most ridiculous reasons that they just make up as they go along.
[58:15.430 --> 58:16.310]  But, um...
[58:16.310 --> 58:17.770]  Can you give us an example of that?
[58:18.210 --> 58:34.050]  Well, with, uh, some of the computer magazines that I get, that I've been getting since I've been here, from time to time, they just decide that they're gonna censor them because they feel that they interfere with the discipline and good orderly nature of the institution or something nonsensical like that.
[58:35.270 --> 58:36.610]  Okay, we have a question for bootleg.
[58:37.510 --> 58:39.110]  Ask him if he's gonna...
[58:39.110 --> 58:42.130]  Ask him to ask you a team for a six-month halfway house.
[58:42.250 --> 58:47.710]  Uh, the question is, uh, whether or not you're able to get a halfway house, uh, situation.
[58:48.410 --> 58:50.990]  Well, what they did was, um, there's two in the city.
[58:51.190 --> 58:52.830]  There's Manhattan and Bedford-Stuyvesant.
[58:53.190 --> 58:56.730]  And, uh, wouldn't you know it, they offered me the one in Bedford-Stuyvesant for 45 days.
[58:56.950 --> 59:03.950]  So, uh, regrettably, I had to turn it down because, uh, I don't have any, uh, wish to be stabbed or shot or mugged or killed.
[59:03.950 --> 59:04.830]  or anything like that.
[59:04.930 --> 59:05.730]  I think I'll stay here.
[59:06.290 --> 59:08.310]  At least it's not worth 45 days.
[59:09.850 --> 59:11.410]  Okay, we have a question from Bernie S.
[59:12.570 --> 59:13.810]  How are they treated medically?
[59:14.590 --> 59:15.190]  And is he ever...
[59:15.190 --> 59:16.130]  Oh, okay, we're...
[59:16.130 --> 59:17.210]  How are they being concerned about it?
[59:17.270 --> 59:17.910]  All right, we're...
[59:17.910 --> 59:19.350]  We have time for one quick question?
[59:19.790 --> 59:20.770]  We're getting interested in...
[59:20.770 --> 59:25.430]  Okay, uh, the question was how you're treated medically, and if you could just sum it up real quick.
[59:27.890 --> 59:29.690]  Medically, I'm really not treated at all.
[59:30.510 --> 59:32.030]  It sums it up pretty quick.
[59:33.170 --> 59:34.430]  Are you able to call us back?
[59:34.670 --> 59:35.590]  I'll try to.
[59:38.330 --> 59:39.090]  Okay, good luck.
[59:39.990 --> 59:40.250]  Okay.
[59:41.190 --> 59:41.750]  You want...
[59:41.750 --> 59:42.310]  Should we just...
[59:42.310 --> 59:42.910]  Should I just hang up more?
[59:43.150 --> 59:43.290]  Yeah.
[59:43.550 --> 59:43.730]  Okay.
[59:44.430 --> 59:46.270]  Okay, Stacy, you beat me if he calls back.
[59:46.470 --> 59:46.730]  Okay, sure.
[59:46.730 --> 59:47.010]  Thank you.
[59:47.190 --> 59:47.710]  Okay, bye.
[59:47.710 --> 59:47.730]  Bye.
[59:48.130 --> 59:48.650]  Bye.
[59:48.950 --> 59:49.090]  Bye.
[59:50.990 --> 59:51.510]  Bye.
[01:00:02.160 --> 01:00:02.460]  Bye.
[01:00:03.420 --> 01:00:03.940]  Uh,
[01:00:21.480 --> 01:00:22.020]  that call...
[01:00:22.020 --> 01:00:26.480]  Uh, that call was made in rather a weird way.
[01:00:26.860 --> 01:00:35.340]  Uh, Mark had to collect call to Echo, which is an internet site here in New York City, um, because we can't make collect calls to hear.
[01:00:36.300 --> 01:00:43.600]  And, uh, we called Echo, and Stacy Horn had to punch in two lines at once, which is why the connection wasn't that great.
[01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:45.940]  But it's really a miracle we were able to reach him at all.
[01:00:46.340 --> 01:00:47.780]  Uh, we didn't think it would be possible.
[01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:50.780]  Sometimes he's not able to get to a phone for days at a time.
[01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:57.060]  So, uh, we'll also have the, uh, the little speech he wrote, which runs about three minutes, uh, a little bit later on.
[01:00:59.380 --> 01:01:01.000]  I guess we'll go back to your panel.
[01:01:01.200 --> 01:01:02.080]  Go back to the panel.
[01:01:02.240 --> 01:01:02.540]  You can...
[01:01:02.540 --> 01:01:02.960]  I have the...
[01:01:04.300 --> 01:01:04.700]  Yeah.
[01:01:08.780 --> 01:01:09.560]  Can you hear me?
[01:01:09.680 --> 01:01:09.980]  First.
[01:01:10.520 --> 01:01:11.860]  Uh, might as well as before.
[01:01:12.660 --> 01:01:14.720]  Yeah, I think they should probably put the board back up.
[01:01:19.460 --> 01:01:19.960]  Oh.
[01:01:20.220 --> 01:01:20.660]  Hello?
[01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:22.460]  Yeah, part four now.
[01:01:24.280 --> 01:01:26.020]  Yes, you can put the slip line back?
[01:01:26.680 --> 01:01:27.180]  Yes.
[01:01:28.820 --> 01:01:29.660]  No, no.
[01:01:30.880 --> 01:01:31.380]  No.
[01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:32.740]  Alright.
[01:01:34.600 --> 01:01:35.300]  Oh, okay.
[01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:37.040]  Everybody keeps calling me back.
[01:01:37.180 --> 01:01:39.620]  If you stop it from calling us back, you can do it back.
[01:01:39.800 --> 01:01:40.140]  Okay.
[01:01:42.100 --> 01:01:47.260]  A moment about default PIN numbers on your calling card.
[01:01:47.520 --> 01:01:59.160]  A few months ago, Nitex had a terrible lot of the art of disaster when they sent advertisements to people's calling cards, which actually had workable PIN numbers on it.
[01:01:59.240 --> 01:02:10.120]  So if you were listed in the phone book, somebody got this out of your mail or crashed, they could look you up in the phone directory, find your phone number, add your phone number, add your phone number.
[01:02:10.120 --> 01:02:15.540]  The PIN number was restricted on the scaler, and now you are PIN number for your call card.
[01:02:15.960 --> 01:02:24.660]  Hello, Paul, take the last four digits of the phone number, add this other number on the outside of the paper, and it would be addressed to you, it would have your name and address, so it would not workable.
[01:02:25.480 --> 01:02:28.940]  Yeah, I addressed the phone company on that.
[01:02:29.200 --> 01:02:30.720]  They sent me a PIN number.
[01:02:30.860 --> 01:02:35.040]  I said, well, what are you doing sending me this card that I did not ask you for?
[01:02:35.460 --> 01:02:40.420]  I said, and then now you're telling me, you're asking me if I wanted, and I said, well, I don't want this.
[01:02:40.480 --> 01:02:42.380]  I want you to disable this right now.
[01:02:42.640 --> 01:02:44.460]  Oh, the response was even better.
[01:02:44.660 --> 01:02:45.880]  It's not disabling everybody.
[01:02:46.220 --> 01:02:48.340]  They only disabled members of people who complain.
[01:02:48.740 --> 01:02:48.740]  Right.
[01:02:49.160 --> 01:02:51.460]  So I didn't use this ad, but just kept it.
[01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:53.820]  Well, two months later, I'm sure they got a lot more complaints.
[01:02:53.820 --> 01:02:55.100]  I'm sure you understand something.
[01:02:55.300 --> 01:02:57.280]  It was a folded thing on the postcard.
[01:02:57.400 --> 01:02:58.000]  Like, it was a tape.
[01:02:58.200 --> 01:03:00.960]  They opened it from the mail, like, and it gets lifted.
[01:03:01.160 --> 01:03:03.100]  It's not even open it and look at it, like, folded it.
[01:03:03.320 --> 01:03:04.780]  Not even open it and read it.
[01:03:04.860 --> 01:03:07.220]  Anybody in the postcard, look at it, close the seal.
[01:03:07.660 --> 01:03:09.320]  It was folded and looked at it from the other side.
[01:03:09.360 --> 01:03:16.180]  Well, I think this is kind of a... I didn't really talk about this, but this is not really a process.
[01:03:16.580 --> 01:03:21.900]  This is more administration matter, and I fear there might be more interesting things.
[01:03:21.900 --> 01:03:26.400]  What other boxes do you know about that still work, besides the blue box?
[01:03:26.640 --> 01:03:32.620]  Well, this is also green box, the old box, the red box, the blue box, the blue box.
[01:03:34.400 --> 01:03:35.760]  Does the green box still work?
[01:03:36.080 --> 01:03:37.240]  This payphone thing, isn't it?
[01:03:40.720 --> 01:03:41.820]  Those are blue boxes.
[01:03:42.100 --> 01:03:43.720]  Those are like C5-100 ones.
[01:03:45.360 --> 01:03:45.840]  Yeah.
[01:03:46.420 --> 01:03:46.820]  Yeah.
[01:03:48.140 --> 01:03:48.480]  Of course.
[01:03:48.820 --> 01:03:52.020]  But with the other tones, you can create any tones you want.
[01:03:52.380 --> 01:03:53.040]  Any tone you want.
[01:03:53.040 --> 01:03:53.640]  Any tone you can voice out.
[01:03:54.160 --> 01:03:55.540]  It should go wrong at the right time.
[01:03:55.700 --> 01:03:56.660]  Any time you need tone.
[01:03:57.800 --> 01:03:59.760]  So, you have to talk to any of you.
[01:04:00.360 --> 01:04:00.800]  Yeah.
[01:04:02.540 --> 01:04:03.500]  Three journals.
[01:04:03.680 --> 01:04:05.580]  What journals do you expect from that?
[01:04:06.400 --> 01:04:12.040]  The, the, the, the, the common information is in the ITU, uh, uh, uh, I'm not sure what they call it.
[01:04:12.040 --> 01:04:15.200]  They call it the red book, they call it the green book, I'm not sure what you know.
[01:04:15.420 --> 01:04:18.260]  It changes color to indicate what that page is.
[01:04:18.740 --> 01:04:24.280]  But it's, uh, it's, it's, it's public information and it's available for extremely low cost.
[01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:28.860]  But you can also, uh, get it at your, at your, at your, at your university library.
[01:04:28.860 --> 01:04:29.200]  For, uh, on the right hand.
[01:04:31.100 --> 01:04:32.080]  I see you, there right?
[01:04:32.080 --> 01:04:32.860]  You're gonna have to talk to me?
[01:04:33.400 --> 01:04:33.420]  I see you.
[01:04:33.520 --> 01:04:33.560]  I see you too.
[01:04:34.360 --> 01:04:35.160]  The ITU key.
[01:04:40.040 --> 01:04:40.860]  It's, uh, um...
[01:04:43.240 --> 01:04:44.620]  Or whatever is the question.
[01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:47.620]  Alright, is anyone having trouble doing this?
[01:04:48.160 --> 01:04:49.380]  No, he's not.
[01:05:01.260 --> 01:05:05.030]  Is there more on this tape?
[01:05:29.810 --> 01:05:31.750]  Well, I only have ten minutes left.
[01:05:32.410 --> 01:05:36.890]  It would make it more interesting to the people here to get the live material.
[01:05:37.730 --> 01:05:38.850]  The live material?
[01:05:40.930 --> 01:05:41.810]  That's already discussed.
[01:06:09.220 --> 01:06:10.900]  If you call your 800 number, it's free.
[01:06:11.040 --> 01:06:14.720]  If I charge you for it, I actually call your local phone company and they will have to stand up.
[01:06:15.940 --> 01:06:18.500]  No 800 number can charge you under any circumstances.
[01:06:18.840 --> 01:06:20.020]  As far as I know, that is zero.
[01:06:24.040 --> 01:06:34.380]  If you stay on with an 800 number they try to put on your phone bill, like building you through a 10XXX system, you can take it off.
[01:06:35.080 --> 01:06:35.780]  There's no way.
[01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:36.640]  Do it one of us.
[01:06:40.420 --> 01:06:45.160]  There was a company that was charging $150 per call for dialing your 800 number.
[01:06:45.720 --> 01:06:48.760]  But they weren't charging you for dialing that 800 number per se.
[01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:49.980]  It was for their services.
[01:06:51.200 --> 01:06:53.700]  And that's, that's the loophole that they got it on.
[01:06:54.280 --> 01:06:56.860]  But they couldn't, they were actually charging through a person's phone number?
[01:06:56.960 --> 01:06:57.500]  Yeah, they were.
[01:06:57.780 --> 01:06:59.320]  So of course they couldn't make that charge.
[01:06:59.680 --> 01:07:00.920]  That's what we said about either of them.
[01:07:01.820 --> 01:07:06.020]  Well, all you really need to do is just give them advice and then send them a bill.
[01:07:06.980 --> 01:07:07.920]  That's what I said about them.
[01:07:07.920 --> 01:07:08.100]  That's what I said about them.
[01:07:10.780 --> 01:07:11.400]  That's what I said about them.
[01:07:11.620 --> 01:07:12.940]  Traditionally, 800 numbers are free.
[01:07:13.080 --> 01:07:14.260]  I've read a little bit about this.
[01:07:20.020 --> 01:07:22.260]  Yeah, but they still send stuff to collections.
[01:07:23.360 --> 01:07:25.240]  Can they collect 900 calls here?
[01:07:25.620 --> 01:07:26.760]  They need to collect it?
[01:07:26.840 --> 01:07:27.380]  I don't think so.
[01:07:27.380 --> 01:07:27.500]  That's what I'm telling you about.
[01:07:27.500 --> 01:07:27.880]  They're not going to do that.
[01:07:28.380 --> 01:07:29.140]  They're not going to do that.
[01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:29.980]  They're not going to do that.
[01:07:29.980 --> 01:07:32.660]  But that was something you say about their students really lost.
[01:07:32.920 --> 01:07:33.860]  They have to do this block.
[01:07:36.940 --> 01:07:39.020]  Right, because they continue to charge for improvements.
[01:07:40.840 --> 01:07:44.160]  By the way, a little fun, but they had to, well.
[01:07:44.240 --> 01:07:46.340]  People had known a few numbers that they had these.
[01:07:46.480 --> 01:07:48.040]  They screwed out a couple of years ago and they still won.
[01:07:48.160 --> 01:07:48.880]  But now it's changed.
[01:07:49.200 --> 01:07:52.240]  If you have a problem with a 90% of the bill.
[01:08:18.100 --> 01:08:26.620]  I know that's true, but again, the title of this conference is boxing, and I think we should get back to boxing.
[01:08:28.920 --> 01:08:39.860]  I mean, there are, there are TV cameras out there, there are TV cameras out there, there are press, and it doesn't have to be great in politics like it did last time the two of us tried this stuff.
[01:08:40.320 --> 01:08:43.200]  Bill, why don't you tell us a little bit about fun with some operators.
[01:08:43.440 --> 01:08:44.420]  That's what I want to get to.
[01:08:44.540 --> 01:08:50.300]  This is more into a pre-camera way of keeping an institution right here.
[01:08:50.540 --> 01:08:53.100]  So are we talking about calling in the...
[01:08:53.700 --> 01:08:57.940]  Well, for instance, calling operators and asking them where they think you're calling from.
[01:08:58.820 --> 01:09:02.840]  Well, you're talking about when we're partnering...
[01:09:02.840 --> 01:09:04.280]  Okay, I know what we're talking about.
[01:09:05.280 --> 01:09:10.580]  You probably know there are several direct services like AT&T Direct, MCI Direct, and...
[01:09:10.580 --> 01:09:15.360]  Every country, just by every developed or semi-developed country has such a direct service.
[01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:23.720]  When you get your operator, your home country, and in your own language, blah, blah, blah, all those crazy benefits mean nothing.
[01:09:25.820 --> 01:09:26.780]  And, uh...
[01:09:26.780 --> 01:09:28.480]  Sometimes it's fun to have fun.
[01:09:28.660 --> 01:09:30.160]  Especially if you're, uh...
[01:09:30.160 --> 01:09:32.160]  It's like here with AT&T or, uh...
[01:09:32.160 --> 01:09:33.680]  In all of you can do the PT&T.
[01:09:34.440 --> 01:09:35.380]  Because they...
[01:09:35.380 --> 01:09:37.620]  When you call a toll-free number in a...
[01:09:37.620 --> 01:09:40.140]  In one country, it just translates to a regular...
[01:09:40.140 --> 01:09:42.300]  A regular line, and then, uh...
[01:09:42.300 --> 01:09:42.740]  It connects.
[01:09:43.160 --> 01:09:43.980]  So, uh...
[01:09:44.920 --> 01:09:45.900]  So, it's...
[01:09:45.900 --> 01:09:46.800]  We can, uh...
[01:09:46.800 --> 01:09:48.860]  Call up and say, well, we're a bunch of students...
[01:09:48.860 --> 01:09:50.080]  I mean, I've actually done this myself.
[01:09:50.360 --> 01:09:51.300]  I've called...
[01:09:51.300 --> 01:09:53.340]  I've given operators nuts by, uh...
[01:09:53.340 --> 01:09:57.060]  By being in France for one call, and then calling from New Zealand, and then calling, uh...
[01:09:57.780 --> 01:09:59.540]  From LA, and then calling from the US.
[01:10:00.860 --> 01:10:01.660]  But, uh...
[01:10:01.660 --> 01:10:01.980]  But, uh...
[01:10:01.980 --> 01:10:02.420]  By simply...
[01:10:02.420 --> 01:10:03.020]  If you know...
[01:10:03.020 --> 01:10:05.920]  If you can find the numbers by social engineering, or...
[01:10:05.920 --> 01:10:09.200]  Or whatever process you want to use, uh...
[01:10:09.200 --> 01:10:09.900]  It's...
[01:10:09.900 --> 01:10:09.960]  It's...
[01:10:09.960 --> 01:10:10.280]  It's...
[01:10:10.280 --> 01:10:12.360]  You can make it look like you're traveling very fast.
[01:10:14.380 --> 01:10:14.780]  So...
[01:10:14.780 --> 01:10:18.160]  I've kind of caught off guard on this one, because this is definitely not...
[01:10:18.160 --> 01:10:18.680]  It's not...
[01:10:18.680 --> 01:10:20.640]  I don't think you heard of this, but...
[01:10:20.640 --> 01:10:21.380]  It's, uh...
[01:10:21.380 --> 01:10:22.320]  That's not really...
[01:10:22.320 --> 01:10:23.560]  Freaking, it's kind of...
[01:10:23.560 --> 01:10:28.580]  It's more social engineering, but half of Freaky is social engineering, so there's no problem with, uh...
[01:10:28.580 --> 01:10:29.460]  Freaking stuff.
[01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:32.260]  Maybe you want to add some more...
[01:10:32.260 --> 01:10:33.720]  Maybe you're doing some stuff...
[01:10:34.380 --> 01:10:34.780]  Uh...
[01:10:34.780 --> 01:10:36.440]  I'd rather not mention it.
[01:10:36.820 --> 01:10:37.440]  Oh, okay.
[01:10:45.160 --> 01:10:48.040]  Well, I think we have the guard here in the social engineering, workshopping.
[01:10:50.040 --> 01:10:50.700]  Of course.
[01:10:51.440 --> 01:10:53.580]  The same way the guy doing stream, uh, here.
[01:10:54.500 --> 01:10:55.380]  He's actually...
[01:10:55.380 --> 01:10:56.580]  In fact, he should have, uh...
[01:10:57.120 --> 01:10:59.920]  He should have grabbed the most expensive 900 number, and, uh...
[01:10:59.920 --> 01:11:01.480]  We got to the back door for him.
[01:11:01.860 --> 01:11:02.840]  It really works that way.
[01:11:04.320 --> 01:11:05.480]  I don't normally do that.
[01:11:05.600 --> 01:11:09.560]  I can care less if it's on 900 or 063 numbers, or, uh...
[01:11:09.560 --> 01:11:10.840]  It's the same thing, Paul.
[01:11:11.500 --> 01:11:15.300]  Unfortunately, they have a, uh, one dealer in a minute, uh, living, which is, like, $60.
[01:11:18.180 --> 01:11:18.880]  Oh, 700?
[01:11:19.420 --> 01:11:19.940]  Uh, that's...
[01:11:20.460 --> 01:11:21.160]  Isn't that more, uh...
[01:11:21.160 --> 01:11:23.580]  Uh, my understanding of 0700 is the customer...
[01:11:23.580 --> 01:11:25.320]  The term is very close to, right?
[01:11:25.820 --> 01:11:26.580]  It's a...
[01:11:26.580 --> 01:11:26.900]  It's a...
[01:11:26.900 --> 01:11:28.280]  It's a remote, uh...
[01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:32.460]  I don't think most 900s are that way.
[01:11:33.360 --> 01:11:34.080]  But, uh...
[01:11:34.080 --> 01:11:36.180]  It's 800s in your program that way, but, uh...
[01:11:36.180 --> 01:11:39.040]  You're asking questions about the phone system, uh, that...
[01:11:39.040 --> 01:11:40.440]  I'm not really, uh...
[01:11:41.280 --> 01:11:42.800]  I don't really play stuff, because I...
[01:11:42.800 --> 01:11:45.700]  I haven't played with the phone system here for, like, about four years.
[01:11:46.840 --> 01:11:47.640]  So, uh...
[01:11:47.640 --> 01:11:49.380]  The question is probably the best direction.
[01:11:49.580 --> 01:11:52.440]  Kevin will tell you quite a lot more about the rest of my system.
[01:11:53.200 --> 01:11:54.640]  Are there any specific questions?
[01:11:56.360 --> 01:11:58.240]  I'm not actually for about 700.
[01:12:00.020 --> 01:12:02.740]  Uh, does anyone want to talk to Mark here?
[01:12:02.900 --> 01:12:02.960]  I don't know.
[01:12:03.480 --> 01:12:05.560]  I should leave that to the, uh...
[01:12:05.560 --> 01:12:06.440]  I didn't tie up to you.
[01:12:07.440 --> 01:12:07.740]  Yeah, sir.
[01:12:08.540 --> 01:12:09.240]  Yeah, okay.
[01:12:10.840 --> 01:12:11.760]  Yeah, I just want
[01:12:16.300 --> 01:12:20.140]  to check if, uh...
[01:12:28.160 --> 01:12:30.500]  We have Mark available, and, uh, I think the
[01:12:37.630 --> 01:12:38.290]  office is...
[01:12:38.290 --> 01:12:41.430]  Okay, we can still talk about, uh...
[01:12:41.430 --> 01:12:42.710]  Uh, whatever, uh...
[01:12:42.710 --> 01:12:43.470]  What do you want to talk about?
[01:12:57.770 --> 01:13:00.090]  That was just a tone that lets you know the operator was coming in light.
[01:13:02.190 --> 01:13:03.810]  And how can you be more fascist about it?
[01:13:03.910 --> 01:13:04.790]  It was a courtesy thing, I guess.
[01:13:04.890 --> 01:13:06.310]  Just to say, hey, operator's not light.
[01:13:07.130 --> 01:13:08.010]  What was the question?
[01:13:08.570 --> 01:13:10.110]  But there was a lot of tone, uh...
[01:13:10.110 --> 01:13:11.490]  When you'd call it TSPS.
[01:13:12.130 --> 01:13:15.530]  TSPS would produce a tone when the operator came on, so you'd know the operator came in light.
[01:13:16.190 --> 01:13:19.590]  And light, the same tone that would come out if the operator would break into your light.
[01:13:20.210 --> 01:13:22.510]  It should be known that this tone is generally in the console.
[01:13:23.490 --> 01:13:26.750]  So I made it back to the board, and we'll apply it to this thing.
[01:13:27.710 --> 01:13:29.550]  Okay, uh, let me have Mark again.
[01:13:30.990 --> 01:13:32.870]  Yeah, we have to turn this microphone off.
[01:13:41.490 --> 01:13:48.470]  Yeah, we have to turn
[01:13:54.830 --> 01:13:55.110]  this microphone off.
[01:13:55.110 --> 01:13:56.430]  Like, uh, click.
[01:13:56.790 --> 01:14:00.950]  There's one click, uh, a minute beforehand, and another one, about ten seconds before.
[01:14:03.180 --> 01:14:04.540]  Now, this makes shit set up.
[01:14:04.680 --> 01:14:05.660]  I mean, it's just one warning.
[01:14:06.180 --> 01:14:09.120]  Did you, did you, sir, find out who Lontel was?
[01:14:09.460 --> 01:14:09.900]  Did?
[01:14:11.540 --> 01:14:11.980]  Mark?
[01:14:12.200 --> 01:14:12.400]  No.
[01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:13.100]  Hmm.
[01:14:14.940 --> 01:14:18.640]  Uh, Lontel is the company that, uh, that places what I call it.
[01:14:20.690 --> 01:14:22.550]  But you can't find anything out of that?
[01:14:22.550 --> 01:14:26.510]  The suspicious thing is that it says it in like a synthesized voice.
[01:14:54.580 --> 01:14:56.200]  ...in prison months, and that's all he knows.
[01:14:57.700 --> 01:15:00.280]  Um, Lontel is the company that, uh, that makes these collect calls.
[01:15:00.440 --> 01:15:01.960]  So far, I guess none of us have gotten the bill.
[01:15:02.160 --> 01:15:02.760]  Is that right?
[01:15:03.100 --> 01:15:03.300]  No.
[01:15:03.380 --> 01:15:13.920]  In fact, uh, I'm just guessing, but like, a lot of small companies, I'm sure that they're just, uh, contracting an outside, uh, billing agent, so that the bills are gonna be a few months behind.
[01:15:15.280 --> 01:15:18.760]  Because no one that's gotten the most recent bill has anything on there about it.
[01:15:22.280 --> 01:15:32.240]  Mark, can you, uh, can you just tell us for people that might not know, uh, a couple of details of your case, uh, when it started, and, uh, what the ultimate result was?
[01:15:32.960 --> 01:15:37.360]  Okay, well, legally, the first time it started was in 1990.
[01:15:37.360 --> 01:15:47.200]  But in actuality, there's, uh, an investigation of various different investigations going on back from the early 1980s.
[01:15:47.860 --> 01:15:56.360]  That, uh, back then it was basically them investigating just a name, a handle, at not knowing who it was in real life or where they were or anything like that.
[01:15:57.620 --> 01:16:04.540]  But, um, they pretty much picked up information that they went along as they, uh, and raided other people.
[01:16:05.780 --> 01:16:15.400]  But, uh, ultimately what I was charged with was having access to computers in pretty much every regional telephone company in the country.
[01:16:17.280 --> 01:16:19.500]  Switching systems and so on and so forth.
[01:16:20.440 --> 01:16:25.560]  And, um, access to computers of, uh, I
[01:16:40.940 --> 01:16:45.240]  was charged at the state level, still being a minor, and nothing really ever came of it.
[01:16:46.740 --> 01:16:57.080]  When some, uh, activities of, uh, a few other people came to light, and it was found out that those people were in contact with myself and a couple of other people.
[01:16:57.540 --> 01:17:01.540]  The feds, uh, turned it into a whole grand scheme, a whole grand conspiracy.
[01:17:02.340 --> 01:17:05.920]  And we all got raided, and, and myself for a second time.
[01:17:06.360 --> 01:17:19.460]  Which, as far as I'm concerned, was only that we were indicted in July of 1992.
[01:17:20.440 --> 01:17:23.300]  Under, uh, myself under two counts.
[01:17:23.520 --> 01:17:24.560]  The first being conspiracy.
[01:17:25.720 --> 01:17:30.080]  And the second being, uh, unauthorized access to federal insurance computers.
[01:17:30.320 --> 01:17:30.560]  So basically
[01:17:46.040 --> 01:17:48.980]  everyone else eventually, one by one, had pled guilty.
[01:17:49.600 --> 01:17:55.700]  Various people were, uh, involved in providing, uh, evidence as informants.
[01:17:55.980 --> 01:18:04.740]  And one of the five convicted people, uh, securities that actually received absolutely no time.
[01:18:15.430 --> 01:18:24.070]  Finally, in, uh, summer of 1993, at the very final moments, I decided to throw in the towel because I felt like I was standing alone.
[01:18:25.190 --> 01:18:31.370]  And, uh, the most beneficial thing I could say out of the whole thing was that I got to see all the events against me.
[01:18:31.930 --> 01:18:33.450]  For whatever it's, it's worth.
[01:18:33.790 --> 01:18:44.390]  And, uh, I got to see how it is that they go about performing an investigation and building a case, basically, how they operate.
[01:18:45.610 --> 01:18:47.770]  They being with that, uh, U.S.
[01:18:47.850 --> 01:18:48.070]  Attorney.
[01:18:48.710 --> 01:18:50.770]  And I feel that I made an informed decision.
[01:18:51.230 --> 01:18:55.330]  Rather than having chosen to put guilty blindly early on.
[01:18:56.830 --> 01:18:57.290]  Um,
[01:19:01.180 --> 01:19:08.360]  uh, you were sentenced to a year and a day in prison, which means that, uh, the only issue to get out is, uh, November this year.
[01:19:08.500 --> 01:19:08.840]  Is that correct?
[01:19:09.380 --> 01:19:09.820]  November.
[01:19:12.040 --> 01:19:17.480]  Is there, is there anything you could say to the people here concerning, um, um, what you've learned?
[01:19:17.740 --> 01:19:22.340]  Should, should, should people be, uh, uh, real careful as far as this kind of thing goes?
[01:19:22.580 --> 01:19:23.960]  Uh, should they avoid it altogether?
[01:19:24.400 --> 01:19:25.160]  Any advice?
[01:19:31.960 --> 01:19:39.180]  Well, I'm not aware of the fact that it doesn't matter what you did, even if you were accused of having done something.
[01:19:39.440 --> 01:19:44.640]  They will find something to charge you with, and they will find you guilty of that thing, whatever it is.
[01:19:45.980 --> 01:19:53.620]  Because they're in control of the courts, and, at the very least, they can charge you with conspiracy for the most minute to say.
[01:19:54.260 --> 01:20:00.880]  And conspiracy in and of itself is a felony, and it carries a penalty of two to five years.
[01:20:01.860 --> 01:20:07.860]  So I just want people to be aware of the fact, that things are really, really crooked.
[01:20:09.560 --> 01:20:21.420]  And even if they're not doing what they consider, what they consider anything wrong, or anything immoral, that if they want to be bad enough, they're going to find something to stick with you with.
[01:20:22.040 --> 01:20:23.260]  It's just that simple.
[01:20:26.000 --> 01:20:30.880]  We only touched upon, uh, on your last call for a moment, the medical, uh, issue.
[01:20:31.180 --> 01:20:33.160]  Can you tell us exactly what, what occurred there?
[01:20:33.920 --> 01:20:49.600]  Well, uh, pretty much, uh, I don't get any medical treatment unless there's a certain, uh, medicine I need for, uh, digestive disorder, uh, which is mainly caused by stress, and just happened to coincide with what I was...
[01:20:53.300 --> 01:21:05.390]  The, uh, medical facilities here are extremely low attention that they need, and the people are obviously here that are far more serious than I am, with heart conditions and, uh, all kinds of problems.
[01:21:06.170 --> 01:21:06.570]  Uh,
[01:21:09.780 --> 01:21:12.120]  when they need it, or are you getting any medication at all?
[01:21:15.610 --> 01:21:20.150]  Now, in your case, though, was, were you not, uh, denied a particular type of medication that you need?
[01:21:21.190 --> 01:21:23.170]  Denied isn't really a word, I just never got it.
[01:21:23.170 --> 01:21:31.090]  Um, yeah, after complaining about a numerous times, I never got everything that my doctor on the outside says was necessary to be paid.
[01:21:33.510 --> 01:21:36.030]  At this point, I want to ask people if they have any questions.
[01:21:36.490 --> 01:21:36.830]  Go ahead.
[01:21:37.510 --> 01:21:39.990]  What are the other, um, people like that are in there?
[01:21:40.430 --> 01:21:43.010]  The question is, what are the other people like that you're in with?
[01:21:43.250 --> 01:21:43.490]  It's
[01:21:47.740 --> 01:21:54.380]  not having to do with, uh, I guess, money-related crimes like, uh, bank fraud and things like that.
[01:21:54.560 --> 01:21:56.720]  There's no marketing fraud people here.
[01:21:56.720 --> 01:22:05.120]  And, uh, there's a lot of, um, not violent drug offenders, whether it be people that are used for protection.
[01:22:12.530 --> 01:22:16.070]  This is not only white-collar, and it's not like, uh, people tell you.
[01:22:16.250 --> 01:22:16.630]  It's not
[01:22:23.280 --> 01:22:23.740]  like...
[01:22:23.740 --> 01:22:24.580]  No test courts.
[01:22:25.020 --> 01:22:25.960]  Nothing like that.
[01:22:27.140 --> 01:22:30.820]  Can you tell us something about the first name, my friend, after we dropped you off?
[01:22:32.620 --> 01:22:39.720]  Well, if you really want to hear about it, uh, since we came on the weekend, and no one told us otherwise, that no one was going to clear the process of the state.
[01:22:40.580 --> 01:22:48.180]  They, uh, put me in, uh, segregation in the, uh, Federal Correctional Institute, which is not the camp, but the real prison.
[01:22:49.200 --> 01:22:53.800]  And, uh, I was locked up in a place that people up here called a hole.
[01:22:55.380 --> 01:22:56.620]  Basically because it is a hole.
[01:22:56.820 --> 01:22:57.560]  It's a hole on the wall.
[01:22:58.640 --> 01:23:00.860]  Where, uh, you're in a small room by yourself.
[01:23:02.040 --> 01:23:08.880]  And, uh, you know, you're locked inside, and, uh, whenever it's mealtime, they unlock the hole in the door, and they say, you can trade food.
[01:23:09.900 --> 01:23:11.520]  And that's basically the extent of it.
[01:23:11.660 --> 01:23:13.840]  So I was, uh, in there about a day and a half.
[01:23:14.100 --> 01:23:19.740]  And I was, uh, extremely nervous, and was sick from, nervous and sick from the food.
[01:23:20.780 --> 01:23:27.460]  And, uh, Monday morning, I, uh, I was feeling pretty sick, and I cubed all over the place, and then they...
[01:23:45.820 --> 01:23:48.720]  If I point out to the audience that, that, that keyboard you hear is not Mark.
[01:23:49.340 --> 01:23:52.300]  That's, uh, that's Stacy over at Echo.
[01:23:52.440 --> 01:23:55.220]  Uh, Mark, uh, what kind of high tech do you have access to?
[01:23:56.620 --> 01:23:57.120]  What's that?
[01:23:57.820 --> 01:24:00.000]  Do you have access to any kind of high technology at all?
[01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:07.000]  Uh, the highest technology that I have is my digital watch and my, uh, and my radio.
[01:24:07.400 --> 01:24:09.660]  Uh, we just got our 15-minute notice again.
[01:24:11.500 --> 01:24:13.760]  Okay, so I'll let you talk until the end then, right?
[01:24:14.900 --> 01:24:23.300]  Um, well, I, uh, I had recorded a speech, and I just wanted to say that I hope, uh, people get something out of it.
[01:24:24.380 --> 01:24:28.320]  And, uh, I don't want to talk too much about it because I just want them to listen to it themselves.
[01:24:28.320 --> 01:24:28.400]  Oh.
[01:24:39.310 --> 01:24:41.030]  Okay, let's get Mark around for a pause.
[01:24:58.530 --> 01:24:59.190]  Stacy, is he done?
[01:25:00.250 --> 01:25:00.650]  Mark?
[01:25:00.870 --> 01:25:02.510]  I'm here, but I won't wait for a few more seconds.
[01:25:03.670 --> 01:25:06.370]  I still plan to mention gamers.
[01:25:07.950 --> 01:25:08.950]  Oh, I think he's on.
[01:25:10.450 --> 01:25:12.190]  Okay, Stacy, thank you very much for your help.
[01:25:12.350 --> 01:25:12.570]  You're welcome.
[01:25:12.930 --> 01:25:13.530]  Okay, take care.
[01:25:23.650 --> 01:25:29.110]  We'll, uh, we'll play the speech in a few minutes, and we'll have prizes to get away, and the EU will come best.
[01:25:29.110 --> 01:25:29.350]  Uh,
[01:25:33.710 --> 01:26:13.460]  pretty quick, so with any, uh, last questions, and then I'll take those and, and then tell you a little bit about, uh, the system part two, and then that's pretty much all that.
[01:26:25.260 --> 01:26:26.380]  How is this translated?
[01:26:36.020 --> 01:26:40.020]  Unless, I don't know how much interest that is, uh, uh, to the public.
[01:26:40.180 --> 01:26:40.680]  Is it interesting?
[01:26:40.840 --> 01:26:42.740]  No, it's, uh, it is published.
[01:26:42.740 --> 01:26:44.060]  Because, again, it was IT.
[01:26:54.640 --> 01:27:12.680]  Okay, uh, uh, Kevin just, uh, just said that, I, I probably don't understand the question, but Kevin, uh, told me that, uh, you just, uh, the way you tell that it's translating, uh, to, uh, like, C7 is, is when you, uh, when you hit the ST, it immediately rings.
[01:27:12.680 --> 01:27:13.820]  It's when you call it.
[01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:19.800]  It will indicate that, uh, it's gone on the C7, and the short dial, it is, it is, uh, signaling on the C7.
[01:27:20.180 --> 01:27:23.700]  And basically, it's receiving the tones, and then put it on another system.
[01:27:24.080 --> 01:27:28.680]  And this is going, uh, one to C5, or one to C7, to five to C7.
[01:27:29.240 --> 01:27:33.640]  Each system, the other system, uh, there are, there are British software that translates.
[01:27:34.520 --> 01:27:45.100]  And the details of how this works, all the, all the fine details that are, are necessary to make international signaling work, are, are discussed in the ITU manuals.
[01:27:49.460 --> 01:27:58.080]  How do you find something works?
[01:27:58.300 --> 01:28:11.180]  Well, uh, again, this goes through the same, uh, uh, that I said, the, the process of hacking seems to be the same for anything, you can read computers, phones, or, uh, cards, or whatever, is that, first you, you, you approach it step by step.
[01:28:11.300 --> 01:28:13.780]  Where can I get access to a bad signal?
[01:28:15.020 --> 01:28:18.140]  Obviously, you try it out, and this is going to have feedback a little bit.
[01:28:19.020 --> 01:28:22.420]  This is causing some feedback in that, if you're taking it hard to move about it.
[01:28:24.540 --> 01:28:27.240]  First, you, you just do it step by step.
[01:28:27.940 --> 01:28:30.240]  An obvious place to check would be by country directs.
[01:28:30.240 --> 01:28:33.220]  There's a list of them in, uh, in, uh, in this place, 600.
[01:28:33.640 --> 01:28:34.600]  Like, in this article.
[01:28:35.420 --> 01:28:38.280]  And, and, first you try those numbers.
[01:28:38.400 --> 01:28:40.000]  See which ones are C5 by the beach.
[01:28:41.240 --> 01:28:44.540]  With C5, you can experiment to see if you can clear it.
[01:28:44.880 --> 01:28:48.400]  You know, try, you try to, uh, 175 milliseconds that are about clearing for it.
[01:28:48.840 --> 01:28:52.660]  If that doesn't, if that dumps the line, try, uh, 120.
[01:28:52.940 --> 01:28:54.160]  It does not think it's somewhere in between.
[01:28:54.520 --> 01:28:57.540]  Or, it might be that you have to put a, uh, siege right upon it.
[01:28:57.540 --> 01:29:04.540]  Some of the C's between, some of the C's, some of the C's, some of the C's, uh, uh, uh, percent, which will cause.
[01:29:04.800 --> 01:29:05.560]  They all vary.
[01:29:05.800 --> 01:29:08.000]  There's only a few possible combinations that work.
[01:29:08.260 --> 01:29:14.700]  You can try different lengths and tones, there's separation in between, until you get actually, uh, actually clear the C's of line.
[01:29:15.000 --> 01:29:16.740]  Once you do that, then try signals.
[01:29:17.140 --> 01:29:20.160]  This is only, uh, terminal calls, which is K1, 0.
[01:29:20.160 --> 01:29:25.320]  Or, can you do, uh, can you do, uh, uh, KBTO in the country?
[01:29:25.540 --> 01:29:27.320]  You can kind of just, uh, try.
[01:29:28.620 --> 01:29:30.480]  It's just a step-by-step process.
[01:29:30.840 --> 01:29:32.400]  I mean, once you get to there, I will...
[01:29:32.400 --> 01:29:33.660]  Mike, I heard my phone story.
[01:29:34.420 --> 01:29:34.820]  Uh,
[01:29:42.170 --> 01:29:43.010]  some people scan.
[01:29:43.210 --> 01:29:44.590]  I think scanning is a waste of time.
[01:29:44.790 --> 01:29:46.850]  I think social is a much better approach.
[01:29:47.110 --> 01:29:48.210]  And that's just common sense.
[01:29:48.410 --> 01:29:49.530]  Where would they put things?
[01:29:50.370 --> 01:29:54.350]  Use your knowledge of the phone system to figure out where they put things.
[01:29:54.350 --> 01:30:04.070]  I mean, uh, like ABCD for, uh, for the, the universal password for the AT&T system on the phone cards, was a very likely choice.
[01:30:04.190 --> 01:30:10.590]  It would be very likely to be used for the phone, because hardly any phones are even valid, and the states have that, uh, that form of call.
[01:30:10.870 --> 01:30:12.210]  So it must be the word call.
[01:30:12.470 --> 01:30:17.810]  And the funny thing is, is that I just tried ABCD, because it seemed like a real-lifeful person to try.
[01:30:18.250 --> 01:30:19.030]  And it worked.
[01:30:19.350 --> 01:30:23.570]  Next, I would have tried probably A, A, A, A, and other combinations of that.
[01:30:23.570 --> 01:30:24.550]  But that didn't work out.
[01:30:24.690 --> 01:30:27.490]  I would have tried to address the word call in, uh, numbers.
[01:30:27.730 --> 01:30:30.030]  Where it is, of course, not a code now.
[01:30:30.150 --> 01:30:30.470]  It would have changed.
[01:30:30.730 --> 01:30:31.450]  It would have created anything.
[01:30:31.650 --> 01:30:33.170]  And, of course, it's word call in, uh, numbers.
[01:30:36.390 --> 01:30:36.750]  Okay.
[01:30:39.590 --> 01:30:41.350]  So I call that AT&T Direct.
[01:30:41.750 --> 01:30:44.470]  It's, uh, 06022-9111.
[01:30:44.590 --> 01:30:46.110]  It's the operator of the USM.
[01:30:46.110 --> 01:30:49.170]  Uh, there's a traditional machine with an AT&T.
[01:30:49.490 --> 01:30:49.850]  You can hear me.
[01:30:50.630 --> 01:30:51.710]  Nobody were calling me.
[01:30:51.930 --> 01:30:52.550]  They were calling me.
[01:30:53.510 --> 01:30:54.450]  And the board is here.
[01:30:54.550 --> 01:30:54.930]  And the board is here, the U.S.
[01:30:55.010 --> 01:30:57.310]  Where is the, the 2.0 of the A, A, A, A.
[01:30:58.390 --> 01:30:58.790]  And
[01:31:04.290 --> 01:31:04.550]  the one.
[01:31:04.910 --> 01:31:05.390]  And the one.
[01:31:05.390 --> 01:31:06.050]  How does it seem?
[01:31:06.710 --> 01:31:07.570]  It's a problem, so.
[01:31:08.290 --> 01:31:08.690]  You're talking, so.
[01:31:08.690 --> 01:31:10.810]  I can't believe you're talking, but it's not always the case.
[01:31:11.190 --> 01:31:13.130]  Uh, uh, they actually have the right.
[01:31:13.590 --> 01:31:17.990]  The other time that I was living, you can now, uh, see, it says that zero-lture seats, uh,
[01:31:22.470 --> 01:31:24.650]  So, don't discount the fourth hall.
[01:31:24.770 --> 01:31:26.730]  They can do very interesting things in the office.
[01:31:29.730 --> 01:31:30.090]  They
[01:31:43.360 --> 01:31:52.180]  are available at ITU, and as I recall, they are very cheap.
[01:31:54.320 --> 01:31:55.840]  They have got to go for servers.
[01:31:55.980 --> 01:31:56.680]  It has more information.
[01:31:58.480 --> 01:32:00.680]  I can look it up for you once they have the keyboard.
[01:32:05.780 --> 01:32:06.620]  Actually, no.
[01:32:07.140 --> 01:32:14.940]  You can get a few articles for free, like the specs on B35, and the new specs on B34, I believe.
[01:32:15.280 --> 01:32:17.560]  But they like to sell as much as they can.
[01:32:18.400 --> 01:32:19.940]  Is that going to be on it?
[01:32:24.880 --> 01:32:26.380]  No, actually, it's in Switzerland.
[01:32:27.440 --> 01:32:28.460]  But it's part of the UN.
[01:32:28.460 --> 01:32:29.080]  Thank you.
[01:32:30.120 --> 01:32:31.580]  Thank you very well.
[01:32:38.160 --> 01:32:40.680]  Well, if I should probably get on to...
[01:32:48.590 --> 01:32:50.910]  Just to make me more nervous, I'll ask that.
[01:32:55.060 --> 01:32:56.920]  Last thing I want to talk about, R2.
[01:32:57.420 --> 01:33:02.100]  R2 was supposed to be the European system, but it turned out to be kind of the worldwide system.
[01:33:05.560 --> 01:33:07.120]  R2 is a very interesting system.
[01:33:07.340 --> 01:33:12.440]  It's kind of a transitory system from in-depth signaling to out-of-depth signaling.
[01:33:13.260 --> 01:33:14.800]  It's a very rich language.
[01:33:15.000 --> 01:33:17.680]  It allows two-way communication.
[01:33:18.180 --> 01:33:20.260]  You send it to the board, it sends it to the record.
[01:33:20.840 --> 01:33:21.640]  It tells you what to do.
[01:33:21.840 --> 01:33:23.520]  Usually it tells you to send the next digit.
[01:33:23.520 --> 01:33:27.940]  But it may, it may tell you to send the digit back because it missed a digit.
[01:33:28.380 --> 01:33:30.680]  Or it may tell you to send your country code.
[01:33:30.780 --> 01:33:32.920]  Let's say you're called Ninharsat or Rersat.
[01:33:33.380 --> 01:33:35.300]  It has to know what country to send the bill to.
[01:33:35.800 --> 01:33:37.040]  So you just can build a country.
[01:33:37.160 --> 01:33:38.820]  I usually do a lot of English.
[01:33:39.220 --> 01:33:41.320]  If you left out of it, build one of the dash.
[01:33:41.780 --> 01:33:43.620]  Which I shouldn't say that because that's the amount of food.
[01:33:46.400 --> 01:33:48.380]  But you can build any country you want.
[01:33:48.620 --> 01:33:50.880]  And it basically tells you what to do.
[01:33:50.880 --> 01:33:54.200]  And you can, by hand, just get to know what the tones sound like.
[01:33:54.480 --> 01:33:55.220]  And respond to it.
[01:33:55.520 --> 01:33:59.720]  Or you can use the, the Riesel or Dixel language we call it.
[01:34:00.640 --> 01:34:04.100]  To, uh, to, uh, do this.
[01:34:04.480 --> 01:34:06.420]  It's, uh, an issue from the United States.
[01:34:07.420 --> 01:34:10.840]  And, in fact, it's probably used, uh, in a lot of those guesses.
[01:34:11.200 --> 01:34:12.260]  It's never getting any more about it.
[01:34:19.050 --> 01:34:20.350]  Tell, uh, is it you?
[01:34:21.910 --> 01:34:24.850]  Oh, Kevin wants, wants to tell about it.
[01:34:24.850 --> 01:34:27.370]  Uh, there are some dangers when you're playing with a sophisticated system.
[01:34:27.610 --> 01:34:29.330]  Like, uh, R2 or C7.
[01:34:29.930 --> 01:34:32.110]  Is that, uh, you have a lot of control of the system.
[01:34:32.550 --> 01:34:35.750]  And if you sit and watch stuff, and you send very confusing signals.
[01:34:36.130 --> 01:34:38.870]  You need, you need, at least put a trunk out.
[01:34:39.250 --> 01:34:42.270]  But in some cases, uh, we're gonna play one of the night in Holland.
[01:34:43.150 --> 01:34:45.610]  And, you know, probably calls all over the world.
[01:34:52.670 --> 01:34:57.150]  So, uh, we did, uh, some, uh, some bad signals.
[01:34:57.470 --> 01:34:59.350]  And we realized, we blocked Belgium off.
[01:34:59.530 --> 01:35:00.330]  It was the middle of the night.
[01:35:00.510 --> 01:35:02.010]  And we totally cut Belgium off.
[01:35:03.030 --> 01:35:04.890]  And we caught you off in 15 minutes.
[01:35:05.070 --> 01:35:07.670]  So I'll probably sit before a guy is scattered because I don't know who it's doing.
[01:35:08.730 --> 01:35:11.370]  So, uh, you're very responsible to do this stuff.
[01:35:11.590 --> 01:35:14.830]  So, I don't say I didn't do that but, uh, somebody else who's kind of...
[01:35:14.830 --> 01:35:15.470]  Yeah, I think I'll do that.
[01:35:15.610 --> 01:35:15.930]  We did it.
[01:35:16.130 --> 01:35:16.950]  We don't know who did it.
[01:35:17.090 --> 01:35:18.530]  It knows that all the trucks got tied up.
[01:35:19.430 --> 01:35:20.650]  Well, what did you do?
[01:35:20.890 --> 01:35:21.650]  How was that, James?
[01:35:23.050 --> 01:35:31.990]  I don't know, I didn't...
[01:35:31.990 --> 01:35:48.930]  I don't think it's a matter of looping the trunk, it's just somehow, because there was so much activity, there were like, we were causing this machine, they definitely saw that on the monitors, we were causing this machine to do random internet calls about 100%.
[01:35:54.040 --> 01:35:56.000]  We're just using certain bang, bang, bangers.
[01:35:57.600 --> 01:36:00.380]  We know about a time, but I think they got so confused.
[01:36:02.680 --> 01:36:11.420]  So we're also, we're trying different things to see different codes and dispensing with it.
[01:36:11.760 --> 01:36:13.020]  And there was something bad about it.
[01:36:13.960 --> 01:36:20.200]  It is possible, it is possible, to knock all the microphones down.
[01:36:20.320 --> 01:36:21.080]  There is an engine.
[01:36:22.540 --> 01:36:29.100]  Because after you use the computer, I mean, if you think you want to call it in 3 seconds or so, it's fast.
[01:36:29.100 --> 01:36:31.260]  You can go a lot faster than I would call it in 6-7.
[01:36:35.020 --> 01:36:36.520]  SS7 is the 6-7.
[01:36:38.960 --> 01:36:42.040]  C7 is the international destination of it.
[01:36:42.440 --> 01:36:49.760]  But unlike any other signaling system, C7 or SS7, it's a national system and it's an international system.
[01:36:49.760 --> 01:36:55.120]  It's a system that can be used across town or around the world.
[01:36:56.300 --> 01:36:56.860]  It's
[01:37:06.960 --> 01:37:09.160]  always going in-depth systems because they're not smart.
[01:37:09.600 --> 01:37:10.400]  C7 will work.
[01:37:11.060 --> 01:37:11.620]  C7 will work.
[01:37:11.620 --> 01:37:12.260]  C7 will work.
[01:37:12.900 --> 01:37:13.860]  That's fascinating.
[01:37:16.640 --> 01:37:19.260]  When you make a call somewhere, it uses what's available.
[01:37:19.660 --> 01:37:26.000]  I mean, there might be, like in the States, when you call somewhere, you call R1.
[01:37:26.540 --> 01:37:31.300]  And if you call within the United States, then it probably goes out to a R1.
[01:37:31.480 --> 01:37:33.180]  So you can see the motion for your carrier.
[01:37:33.640 --> 01:37:34.320]  If you need to do it.
[01:37:34.660 --> 01:37:36.720]  So I can certainly, it's one of the off-brand carriers.
[01:37:36.980 --> 01:37:46.460]  If you need to do it on R1.
[01:37:47.140 --> 01:37:53.600]  But then, if there are candidates to do a C7 or a C6, the malaria system is going to do it on R1.
[01:38:01.060 --> 01:38:03.080]  Probably, probably we just want to reach a lot.
[01:38:13.540 --> 01:38:15.300]  But you can do that with a BSF.
[01:38:16.200 --> 01:38:17.020]  It doesn't have to.
[01:38:20.180 --> 01:38:21.560]  The malaria reverses.
[01:38:21.860 --> 01:38:23.100]  And we should probably take this off.
[01:38:23.200 --> 01:38:24.300]  Can you talk to me about this?
[01:38:28.000 --> 01:38:29.140]  I'm not sure if it's .
[01:38:32.450 --> 01:38:34.170]  Any other questions as far as that?
[01:38:34.850 --> 01:38:35.910]  If you're stable or anytime?
[01:38:35.910 --> 01:38:40.650]  Can we just say that we are getting ready to go to the U.S.A.
[01:38:40.650 --> 01:38:40.650]  Direct,
[01:38:45.900 --> 01:38:50.680]  I'll just send a number to the U.S.A.
[01:38:50.700 --> 01:38:51.540]  Direct to call us.
[01:38:52.860 --> 01:39:05.960]  You can call us here, dial 01131 and then drop to 06-022-9111 and you will get U.S.A.
[01:39:05.960 --> 01:39:06.300]  Direct.
[01:39:06.300 --> 01:39:10.760]  And ask the operator that you've got the country you're in and we'll show you how you'd like to call it.
[01:39:15.360 --> 01:39:18.640]  We don't pay for call to Holland unless you don't have to call it.
[01:39:22.180 --> 01:39:31.780]  You can call a print from Holland and then send it back to the U.S.
[01:39:35.520 --> 01:39:45.900]  and then 3186-022-9111 and then enter the pound and then we'll connect you to U.S.A.
[01:39:45.900 --> 01:39:46.600]  Direct from Holland.
[01:39:46.920 --> 01:39:49.540]  You can also do it through, uh, multiple other countries.
[01:39:50.000 --> 01:39:50.440]  Not all.
[01:39:50.580 --> 01:39:51.380]  It can't be through Germany.
[01:39:51.700 --> 01:39:53.820]  You can probably do it in Norway, for instance.
[01:39:59.090 --> 01:39:59.810]  Anybody else?
[01:40:09.780 --> 01:40:10.660]  Okay, stick around.
[01:40:10.780 --> 01:40:15.100]  We have, uh, we have the finalists and we have some other surprises.
[01:40:16.040 --> 01:40:16.840]  Almost finished.
[01:40:17.560 --> 01:40:22.580]  So, uh, take a couple minutes, stretch your legs, but come back because we've got some interesting stuff.
[01:40:22.580 --> 01:40:23.100]  Yes, thank you.
[01:40:23.920 --> 01:40:24.320]  Hello?
[01:40:24.320 --> 01:40:26.940]  I spoke in
[01:42:12.950 --> 01:42:18.230]  Baltimore, Canada.
[01:43:08.940 --> 01:43:14.400]  My husband is here to visitätels.
[01:43:14.400 --> 01:43:14.900]  Jen is here in the event of Vancouver.
[01:43:23.370 --> 01:43:25.570]  We have my seniororney, Melissa.
[01:44:14.290 --> 01:44:19.090]  I've left for 1975 years.
[01:44:19.090 --> 01:44:19.410]  Amen.