[00:01.700 --> 00:02.060]  Hello.
[00:02.740 --> 00:03.100]  Welcome.
[00:03.360 --> 00:05.040]  Thank you for coming to my little talk here.
[00:05.940 --> 00:08.960]  There's that CIA whistleblower seems much more interesting.
[00:09.160 --> 00:12.100]  So I thank you very much for trying me out here.
[00:13.160 --> 00:15.140]  A couple of quick disclaimers right at the top.
[00:15.280 --> 00:19.560]  These are my personal thoughts and not as my employer, the Free Software Foundation.
[00:20.200 --> 00:21.000]  I'm not a lawyer.
[00:21.080 --> 00:22.000]  This is not legal advice.
[00:22.140 --> 00:23.260]  I'm not sure I needed to say that.
[00:23.420 --> 00:25.020]  And I'm also not a life coach.
[00:25.160 --> 00:26.240]  And this is not life advice.
[00:28.620 --> 00:29.940]  First of all, I'd like to thank HOPE.
[00:30.160 --> 00:31.580]  This is really an opportunity.
[00:32.100 --> 00:34.900]  It's excited to be here and excited to be giving a talk.
[00:35.140 --> 00:40.480]  A little later today, I'm giving a workshop on how to review a program's licensing.
[00:41.180 --> 00:42.620]  So maybe check that out.
[00:43.180 --> 00:45.000]  Of course, as I said before, my name is Craig Topham.
[00:45.440 --> 00:48.880]  I started to become a free software activist in 2006.
[00:49.900 --> 00:55.140]  And years went by and eventually started working for the Free Software Foundation in 2018.
[00:56.240 --> 00:58.200]  And that's kind of where I went from there.
[00:58.380 --> 01:00.280]  I care very much about free software.
[01:00.660 --> 01:02.940]  And I'm also a playcyclist.
[01:04.540 --> 01:04.980]  Objective.
[01:05.040 --> 01:05.640]  Oh, what's that?
[01:06.000 --> 01:06.860]  What's playcycling?
[01:07.240 --> 01:08.400]  Oh, let's see.
[01:08.700 --> 01:09.680]  Plycycling is this.
[01:10.600 --> 01:12.900]  Essentially, I pick up garbage while I ride my bicycle.
[01:14.300 --> 01:16.600]  So yeah, just there's a cigarette butt.
[01:17.280 --> 01:18.800]  I've been doing like 11 years.
[01:19.020 --> 01:23.620]  And by my calculations, I've probably picked up over to seven to eight tons of garbage off the streets.
[01:24.200 --> 01:25.680]  Yeah, there's another cigarette butt.
[01:29.940 --> 01:31.660]  So that's kind of what I do in my spare time.
[01:32.220 --> 01:34.220]  And we'll actually touch on that a little bit later.
[01:35.440 --> 01:38.860]  So the objectives is I'm going to give a very brief history of free software.
[01:39.220 --> 01:41.260]  I would suspect most of you know it already.
[01:42.260 --> 01:46.800]  And then I'm going to talk about my experience, how I came to free software and why I find it so important.
[01:46.800 --> 01:50.120]  And hopefully this, my little experience will inspire others.
[01:50.580 --> 01:53.240]  It's a bit of a stretch, but got to do something.
[01:54.200 --> 01:58.820]  And then I'm also going to get into why the freedom aspect of free software is very important.
[01:59.840 --> 02:05.140]  And then I'm going to shamelessly convince everybody to become associate members of the Free Software Foundation.
[02:05.500 --> 02:08.080]  I memorized all your faces and I'm going to find you.
[02:08.700 --> 02:09.260]  Just kidding.
[02:09.380 --> 02:09.660]  Just kidding.
[02:09.660 --> 02:12.380]  So very, very quick history of free software.
[02:12.740 --> 02:16.960]  In the mid eighties, the GNU project was started to create a fully free operating system.
[02:17.760 --> 02:24.980]  Shortly thereafter, the Free Software Foundation was created to basically be the business side of what is otherwise a technological project.
[02:27.100 --> 02:41.760]  From there in 1989, the GNU general public license version two was released, which of course ensures the four freedoms, which are, of course, to run the program, however you wish, be able to modify it, study the code, be able to make copies.
[02:42.020 --> 02:45.280]  And then, of course, make modifications and share your modifications.
[02:45.820 --> 02:58.500]  And also establish what's called copyleft, which basically ensures that once that license is put on your software, it will continue to be that license moving into the future.
[03:00.080 --> 03:06.920]  A little soon thereafter, the GNU lesser general public license was released, and that was more or less a compromise.
[03:07.800 --> 03:11.800]  The idea is that people are going to be using these libraries.
[03:11.940 --> 03:15.640]  They might as well be free libraries, even if they're incorporated into proprietary software.
[03:16.200 --> 03:22.460]  Then in 1992, this thing called the Linux kernel was released under the GNU general public license version two.
[03:22.460 --> 03:27.780]  And the combination of GNU with Linux, of course, makes the world's first fully free operating system.
[03:29.020 --> 03:35.440]  A little bit later in 1998, some people got together and decided that the word free software wasn't good enough.
[03:35.440 --> 03:43.400]  So they came up with the word term open-source, which seems to have, by and large, taken over the vernacular of the community.
[03:43.400 --> 03:49.800]  And then in 2007, the latest version of the GPLs were released, version three.
[03:50.280 --> 03:58.620]  And then the AGPL, which is essentially the GPL with an additional section about distribution.
[03:58.620 --> 04:03.740]  So what triggers the obligation to provide source code is the distribution of the software.
[04:04.000 --> 04:13.660]  And what the AGPL does is that if you interact with the program over a network, that is more or less triggering the distribution, which requires you, which gives you the source code.
[04:14.000 --> 04:17.080]  And of course, the LGPL V3 came out as well at the same time.
[04:18.340 --> 04:22.020]  So that given that, so now we're going to get into my experience here.
[04:22.200 --> 04:26.800]  It starts off with the American dream, which I'm not complaining about it.
[04:27.120 --> 04:35.380]  I'm very, I grew up in a home more or less without want, free of violence and other terrible things with a lot of people deal with.
[04:35.860 --> 04:39.380]  But the American dream is, I'd like to quote George Carlin.
[04:40.320 --> 04:43.620]  That's why they call it the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.
[04:45.400 --> 04:52.140]  And again, I feel overwhelmed with gratitude that I got to grow up in the American dream.
[04:53.640 --> 04:55.260]  And I can only focus on America.
[04:55.420 --> 04:56.680]  I can't really speak to other countries.
[04:56.820 --> 04:59.360]  So this is a very specific thing to hear.
[04:59.760 --> 05:02.100]  But of course, dreaming implies sleeping.
[05:02.600 --> 05:05.720]  And so if you're asleep, you might not notice things that are going on.
[05:06.640 --> 05:10.780]  So maybe if you start to wake up and look at the world, it might look a little like this.
[05:11.320 --> 05:12.420]  Things are not great.
[05:13.240 --> 05:14.800]  It's pretty brutal out there.
[05:15.240 --> 05:18.140]  I don't mean to make light of our predicament.
[05:18.800 --> 05:24.480]  But nobody wants to see a collage of nightmares, which would truly represent what's happening in the world.
[05:24.680 --> 05:29.900]  The lots of unnecessary strife and suffering.
[05:33.380 --> 05:39.360]  You know, and once you kind of see it, because you see it, but then if you like really take it in, it's very painful.
[05:39.940 --> 05:42.020]  Lots of crying myself to sleep at night.
[05:42.220 --> 05:44.760]  Like, you know, why is the world like this?
[05:46.540 --> 05:50.340]  I once read a bumper sticker that said, if you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.
[05:50.880 --> 05:53.720]  And I think that that very much still is applicable today.
[05:58.000 --> 06:02.080]  So for me, when I, when I start to kind of see the world, there's, there's this kind of realization.
[06:02.160 --> 06:04.400]  Like you go, okay, something's, something's wrong.
[06:05.040 --> 06:05.400]  Why?
[06:05.520 --> 06:10.500]  Why do children starve when we like waste like 50% of our food?
[06:10.640 --> 06:11.580]  Like it's, it's obnoxious.
[06:11.580 --> 06:20.400]  And I don't want to rattle off a bunch of horrible things, but I think most folks, you know, get, get where I'm going with that.
[06:21.320 --> 06:32.720]  Um, so from there, once the realization sets in, um, the, the next phase is, is comprehension.
[06:32.720 --> 06:34.360]  Like what, why is this going on?
[06:34.420 --> 06:35.240]  Why is this happening?
[06:35.740 --> 06:38.000]  Um, this takes a while.
[06:38.280 --> 06:39.760]  There's a lot of research involved.
[06:39.900 --> 06:42.860]  Um, I honestly don't know where to tell you to begin.
[06:42.860 --> 06:52.320]  Um, but I like, if you were to read like some Noam Chomsky, Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, um, Carol Quigley, uh, what I got here, John Perkins.
[06:52.540 --> 06:58.400]  Um, there, there, there's, there's, there's some patterns that you'll, you'll start to notice about what, what's going on in the world.
[06:58.960 --> 07:08.000]  And, um, I, I felt, I was very lucky when I first got out of high school, I, I went to community college and studied journalism, uh, for a year and a half.
[07:08.020 --> 07:11.820]  And it really, uh, gave me some tools on how to read media.
[07:11.820 --> 07:18.460]  Kind of a media literacy, uh, be able to fact check site sources, you know, these critical little pieces that we need.
[07:19.300 --> 07:21.400]  Um, because it's really challenging.
[07:21.540 --> 07:25.680]  There's a lot of nonsense out there and there's a lot of people deliberately making that nonsense.
[07:25.860 --> 07:34.200]  So it, it, uh, it's a struggle for folks to actually get the truth of, of, um, to kind of develop a functional worldview.
[07:36.600 --> 07:41.800]  So many years later, what I came to discover is there's this really very tiny, tiny slide.
[07:41.800 --> 07:47.580]  So the human population that has extreme, like their wealth and influences off the charts.
[07:47.960 --> 07:54.180]  Um, and I don't necessarily, um, that's a very simple explanation of what's going on.
[07:54.280 --> 07:58.860]  But apparently these, these people don't care about us and they don't care about the environment.
[07:59.180 --> 08:02.400]  Um, and it, it's, it's problematic in, in my opinion.
[08:03.760 --> 08:07.680]  Um, so, yeah.
[08:09.960 --> 08:11.900]  Let me see, make sure I didn't miss anything here.
[08:16.260 --> 08:17.060]  Right, right.
[08:19.360 --> 08:23.980]  So, it takes a while to get, like I said, like a, like a comprehensive worldview.
[08:24.300 --> 08:27.360]  And then the next question is, okay, now what am I going to do about it?
[08:27.360 --> 08:29.100]  Um, I'm, I'm just a regular guy.
[08:29.300 --> 08:30.440]  I'm not particularly smart.
[08:30.600 --> 08:31.860]  I don't have a lot of resources.
[08:32.500 --> 08:36.840]  Um, and so I, I tried to get involved.
[08:36.960 --> 08:41.440]  I got, there was like some, uh, like grassroots, like political stuff.
[08:41.760 --> 08:44.080]  Uh, I went door to door getting money for things.
[08:44.180 --> 08:46.740]  Like, and it's just, I just kind of was disenchanted.
[08:47.220 --> 08:49.540]  Um, and then also I'm like living my own life.
[08:49.540 --> 08:51.060]  Like I have to work and pay bills.
[08:51.260 --> 08:53.320]  And, you know, again, I'm just, just one person.
[08:53.540 --> 08:56.380]  Um, but long story short, I was looking for something to do.
[08:57.160 --> 09:00.120]  Like what, what can I do to make the world a better place?
[09:02.280 --> 09:15.860]  And so I discovered the free software movement and that didn't happen until 2006, which I find a little shocking because I grew up, uh, since like 1981 or two with a computer in the house.
[09:15.860 --> 09:19.520]  It was just there and I used it mostly to play little games and stuff.
[09:19.540 --> 09:24.660]  But I was surprised to learn about the free software movement.
[09:24.660 --> 09:26.240]  So, so late in the game there.
[09:26.480 --> 09:30.540]  Um, I remember I was, you know, online, I'm reading things, learning stuff.
[09:30.680 --> 09:35.940]  And I was with a coworker and I started repeating what I had read online, ranting and raving.
[09:36.140 --> 09:38.400]  And he goes, you sound like Richard Stallman.
[09:38.540 --> 09:39.480]  And I went, who?
[09:40.280 --> 09:41.460]  And I, I didn't know.
[09:41.680 --> 09:46.720]  And so I got my hands on the free software, free society, the selected essays of Richard Stallman.
[09:46.720 --> 09:51.360]  And I went, oh, oh, this, this is, this is where I said, this is something I could do.
[09:52.200 --> 09:57.840]  And so, and, and it didn't disrupt my, um, worldview.
[09:58.080 --> 09:59.180]  Like it just fit right in.
[09:59.300 --> 10:08.540]  And the simplicity of the four freedoms was, was very like, um, just, just simple and clean and just straightforward.
[10:08.540 --> 10:11.700]  I didn't, it didn't feel confused at all when, when I, when I read it.
[10:12.720 --> 10:15.860]  And so if, uh, I highly recommend that book.
[10:16.940 --> 10:18.920]  So the next stage is okay.
[10:20.200 --> 10:20.600]  Act.
[10:20.800 --> 10:22.540]  What I got the free software thing.
[10:22.640 --> 10:24.700]  I want to do something to make the world a better place.
[10:24.920 --> 10:26.060]  Where do I go from there?
[10:26.180 --> 10:31.500]  And the beauty of free software is all you have to do is just start using and talking about free software.
[10:34.770 --> 10:41.890]  And at the time I got involved with neighborhood associations and we were, I was using Drupal, which is GPL v2.
[10:42.670 --> 10:45.130]  And I was showing people how to set up their websites.
[10:45.390 --> 10:47.750]  I did like four or five different neighborhood groups.
[10:48.290 --> 10:52.850]  And, um, my trick was, is I, hey, I'm, I, I know how to set up websites.
[10:52.990 --> 10:54.370]  Let me come talk to you about that.
[10:54.510 --> 11:01.750]  But they first have to listen to me for 10 to 15 minutes, talking about the history of free software and the difference between free software and open-source.
[11:01.750 --> 11:06.270]  Um, so I kind of snuck that in, but it went pretty well for a while.
[11:06.450 --> 11:10.970]  And then I basically became an, uh, FSF associate member and all of you should too.
[11:12.530 --> 11:20.550]  And I really just engaged, engaged the process and it really gave me a sense of purpose and, um, and focus.
[11:21.090 --> 11:24.290]  Um, but what, what happened over time?
[11:24.290 --> 11:32.550]  I didn't immediately realize this, but I, the, the, my, the importance of free software, um, developed over the years.
[11:33.530 --> 11:34.610]  And so, um,
[11:44.680 --> 11:45.200]  so yeah.
[11:45.360 --> 11:50.840]  So going back to the nightmare, it's like we, we see this and now we need solutions.
[11:51.160 --> 11:58.540]  And one of the things I actually learned, um, about play sickling, it's basically a random act of kindness machine.
[11:58.540 --> 12:06.020]  And so when people see me doing it and they, they understand what I'm doing, they don't think I'm a homeless person that has a grabber to fish cans out of the dumpster.
[12:06.280 --> 12:09.440]  When they see me do it, their inner light shines a little brighter.
[12:09.620 --> 12:13.860]  And I really think that that's like a very important thing that the world needs right now.
[12:13.860 --> 12:17.640]  And so, but free software is a little more involved.
[12:18.100 --> 12:30.320]  Um, so I really wish I had a better way to describe this because I'm a pacifist, but we are locked in combat for free software and, and our very future.
[12:30.580 --> 12:36.660]  Uh, the proprietary software, the major proprietary software developers of the world would make free software disappear.
[12:37.040 --> 12:41.280]  They would make it disappear if they could, but they can't because they would have done it already.
[12:41.280 --> 12:47.680]  So clearly they're not able to, um, if you ask Microsoft, Hey, Microsoft, do you want to own all free software?
[12:47.780 --> 12:48.560]  They would say yes.
[12:49.920 --> 12:57.530]  And so, and it also, it doesn't mean they've given up.
[12:57.790 --> 13:01.050]  Uh, they're still trying to not have free software.
[13:01.310 --> 13:02.350]  And that's my opinion.
[13:03.430 --> 13:06.230]  Um, so, but there's a bigger picture here.
[13:06.350 --> 13:11.790]  I'd like every folks to consider, um, because it's more than just free software is at stake.
[13:12.730 --> 13:17.030]  The, um, hold on a second.
[13:17.250 --> 13:17.970]  Lost my train of thought.
[13:18.670 --> 13:19.150]  Yeah.
[13:19.390 --> 13:21.190]  It's more than just free software that's at stake.
[13:21.350 --> 13:28.110]  It's the, there's a, our battlefront is computer user freedom, but the war is multifaceted.
[13:28.270 --> 13:31.390]  I mean, there's people that are fighting for things all over the world.
[13:31.510 --> 13:37.030]  They're fighting for like, like clean water and food, freedom of speech, freedom from being oppressed.
[13:37.030 --> 13:38.250]  I mean, these people are fighting.
[13:38.390 --> 13:39.090]  They're out in the streets.
[13:39.330 --> 13:41.670]  Some of them even giving their lives for these fights.
[13:41.870 --> 13:47.110]  And if any one of those battles is lost, our future is, it's not, it's going to be very, very bleak.
[13:47.750 --> 13:51.550]  And so I believe that control over one's computing is a human right.
[13:52.270 --> 13:58.510]  And if the free software movement fails, you, you can say goodbye to privacy and freedom of speech amongst other things.
[13:58.510 --> 14:02.070]  I'm sure, especially online, I mean, it, it'd be over.
[14:02.870 --> 14:10.350]  Um, and so that's kind of why, why, why we fight.
[14:10.470 --> 14:11.350]  Cause what, what do we want?
[14:11.450 --> 14:12.310]  We want freedom.
[14:12.610 --> 14:13.790]  They want to take it away.
[14:15.170 --> 14:26.190]  And one of the most important defenses that we've had over the last 40 years is the GNU general public license, which works with the legal framework of law.
[14:27.070 --> 14:30.130]  And, um, to make sure.
[14:30.610 --> 14:39.730]  So the GNU general public license wasn't the first free software license, but it was the first free software license to guarantee freedom then now and, and into the future.
[14:39.930 --> 14:41.770]  That knows that that's how it was designed.
[14:44.830 --> 14:47.650]  So this is why the free software movement exists.
[14:47.750 --> 14:49.150]  And this is kind of what it means to me.
[14:49.530 --> 14:57.110]  It's the spread and protect computer user freedom, but it's also up to the community to kind of make sure it stays strong.
[14:57.110 --> 15:02.130]  So when somebody says open-source, instead of men talking about freedom, it kind of weakens the cause.
[15:02.330 --> 15:07.310]  If somebody chooses a permissive license over a copyleft license, it weakens the cause.
[15:07.490 --> 15:15.690]  If somebody uses, um, a DCO over a more substantial legal agreement for their free software contributions, it weakens the cause a little bit.
[15:15.790 --> 15:22.110]  And heaven forbid, somebody uses a non-attribution permissive license for their work because it weakens the cause.
[15:23.910 --> 15:33.510]  And now everything I just referenced, I'm just going to leave dangling there and not explain it, and you can come find me at the Free Software Foundation's table, and we'd love to talk to you about it.
[15:35.130 --> 15:46.530]  And this is also one of the reasons why I say free software instead of open-source, because I learned a long time ago that if I want to talk about freedom, you put the message first, even if it requires a little additional explanation.
[15:47.790 --> 15:56.750]  I think it's kind of funny because one of the excuses that was given as to why they had to say open-source is because people were confused by the word free.
[15:56.990 --> 15:57.910]  You know, oh, is it cheap?
[15:58.030 --> 16:00.070]  What is it, you know, not quality?
[16:00.810 --> 16:05.990]  And it's funny because you can say free society and nobody goes, what do you mean free society?
[16:06.090 --> 16:09.150]  What, nobody pays for anything and just the government just does all the work?
[16:09.210 --> 16:12.090]  No, it's a society where people live in freedom.
[16:12.250 --> 16:14.750]  But if you say free software, people are like, what?
[16:15.270 --> 16:16.530]  So, you know, free isn't freedom.
[16:18.730 --> 16:20.970]  No, it's free isn't freedom, not free isn't beer.
[16:21.790 --> 16:23.110]  You know, free isn't free beer.
[16:24.070 --> 16:25.030]  You say free beer?
[16:25.450 --> 16:28.250]  You know, it's like, but and that's fine.
[16:28.350 --> 16:28.750]  That's fine.
[16:28.890 --> 16:30.470]  It's just part of the part of the process.
[16:37.780 --> 16:41.600]  So, yeah, so now I'm going to talk a little bit about so that that's kind of my story.
[16:41.740 --> 16:43.100]  I guess that that's the summary there.
[16:43.100 --> 16:44.580]  That's how I got here.
[16:44.900 --> 16:54.140]  That's why I'm passionate about it, because I really do think that it's it's if we don't have control of our computing, it's we're done.
[16:54.280 --> 16:57.380]  So that's just my take.
[16:57.980 --> 17:10.000]  And so now I'm going to share with you some of the things that the Free Software Foundation, if you wanted to get involved with the free software, there's there's some plenty of opportunities that the Free Software Foundation offers with for volunteers.
[17:12.400 --> 17:15.100]  And so, oh, I'd missed my conclusion.
[17:16.620 --> 17:23.120]  I suggest everybody find a position and gird yourself for final combat, because that's kind of where we're at.
[17:24.620 --> 17:31.320]  And that, you know, again, the Free Software movement is about freedom and a fight for a better tomorrow.
[17:32.040 --> 17:34.340]  So now we get into the opportunities.
[17:34.860 --> 17:41.420]  So the licensing and compliance lab, which I am a part of, we have several things that we're looking for volunteers.
[17:41.640 --> 17:50.200]  The first one on the list here is the we have what's called the Respect Your Freedom program, where we basically certify devices that are run on fully free software.
[17:50.720 --> 17:53.880]  It's the same thing, like you would see like a little organic stamp on food.
[17:54.100 --> 17:55.660]  It's just that kind of certification.
[17:56.460 --> 18:01.420]  And that's in tied with there's a it's called hnode.org.
[18:01.760 --> 18:07.120]  And it's basically a catalog of software that we know or hardware that we know runs on free software.
[18:07.960 --> 18:18.720]  And so if you want to get involved with that, the the RYF, there's a lot of kind of preliminary work that needs to be done, you know, being able to get the source code from the person, compile it, put it on the device.
[18:18.720 --> 18:21.020]  If somebody is interested in doing that kind of work.
[18:23.260 --> 18:26.900]  Yeah, it just basically would it would create like a report for us.
[18:27.020 --> 18:32.240]  And then we can, you know, we would double check it and then work towards certifying the device and getting more devices certified.
[18:33.440 --> 18:38.780]  We also so the GPL compliance is a big part of our work.
[18:39.980 --> 18:42.340]  And we receive reports from the public.
[18:43.220 --> 18:47.720]  And a lot of times it just says XYZ won't give me source code.
[18:48.720 --> 18:49.540]  And that's it.
[18:49.660 --> 18:52.320]  And it doesn't give links to anything, you know, it's.
[18:52.500 --> 18:58.040]  And so they're what we what we would need from volunteers is just more a more comprehensive report that's actionable.
[18:58.520 --> 19:01.480]  That, you know, we can see the distributing binaries.
[19:01.720 --> 19:03.020]  Where is the source code?
[19:03.020 --> 19:07.780]  And maybe even the volunteer takes time to like reach out to the thing going, where's it at?
[19:07.860 --> 19:10.440]  Because a lot of times it's just a misunderstanding.
[19:10.480 --> 19:19.460]  They don't understand what their obligations are with with distributing source code for especially GPL software, because that's obviously what we focus on.
[19:21.200 --> 19:22.980]  So that's something for volunteers to do.
[19:23.100 --> 19:28.740]  The next one is this is a fairly new activity for the FSF and we're calling it GPL stewardship.
[19:29.280 --> 19:37.460]  And what it is, is we are no longer tolerating people modifying the GPL outright.
[19:37.460 --> 19:52.140]  Sometimes they just they they just put like a section in the middle of it and it's a document that is not authorized to be edited or it's just that you can't edit it because it is copywritten work by the Free Software Foundation.
[19:52.740 --> 20:06.160]  And then they also what people will do will add on an additional restriction, like they'll throw on something on the bottom of it that says you can't use this for commercial purposes or something like that when the GPL clearly says you can use it for however you wish.
[20:07.400 --> 20:14.160]  And we look at that as one, it confuses people because this day and age, if you see the GPL, you kind of know what you're in for.
[20:15.160 --> 20:18.860]  And if all of a sudden there's some extra clause on there, you go, well, what is this?
[20:19.220 --> 20:22.100]  You know, it might confuse some people.
[20:23.200 --> 20:29.620]  And also it helps understand if they did put an additional restriction on that license, the GPL allows you to remove it.
[20:29.780 --> 20:33.320]  It clearly says if this license has additional restrictions, you are allowed to remove it.
[20:33.840 --> 20:36.320]  So it's like, well, why put it there in the first place then?
[20:36.540 --> 20:38.160]  And so there's kind of a back and forth.
[20:38.320 --> 20:42.720]  And out of the handful of people we've been interacting with, they're all pretty, pretty responsive.
[20:43.200 --> 20:51.000]  Some of them go full proprietary, which isn't optimal, but at least they're not confusing people with our license.
[20:51.460 --> 20:53.200]  It also affects our trademark.
[20:53.200 --> 20:57.760]  I don't know how else to say this, but we're protecting our brand.
[20:58.600 --> 21:02.020]  Basically, when you see GNU, much like the GPL, you know what you're in for.
[21:02.120 --> 21:03.720]  You know what you're dealing with.
[21:03.820 --> 21:09.060]  And if they do something to make it confusing, then that confuses consumers.
[21:09.160 --> 21:11.140]  And that's kind of what trademarks are all about.
[21:12.160 --> 21:16.540]  Another one is, if you're really... our website says LawGeek.
[21:17.000 --> 21:26.980]  I wish I would have said something else, but we actually answer licensing questions from people who are interested in developing and releasing their software under a...
[21:26.980 --> 21:29.980]  Well, developing and releasing free software.
[21:31.080 --> 21:37.940]  They write into us and myself and my coworker, along with some very talented volunteers, answer those questions.
[21:37.940 --> 21:40.180]  It's a pretty valuable service.
[21:40.480 --> 21:41.960]  We can't give legal advice.
[21:42.200 --> 21:43.320]  It's more or less consultation.
[21:43.620 --> 21:48.440]  But if you put a dollar amount on it, it's like three or four hundred dollars to answer a question.
[21:48.560 --> 21:50.880]  You know, basically an hour or two of our time.
[21:52.040 --> 21:55.300]  So, but if you're developing free software, that's a pretty nice thing to do.
[21:55.440 --> 22:01.160]  And it's also, if you're really interested, it puts you on kind of the front lines of software licensing.
[22:01.380 --> 22:03.280]  I mean, we get a lot of routine questions.
[22:03.820 --> 22:05.620]  We have a lot of materials.
[22:07.020 --> 22:16.180]  We have an FAQ that's like 170 plus questions and answers of how the GPL and free software licensing is supposed to work.
[22:17.380 --> 22:22.960]  So we get a lot of questions like that, but we also get like some really tough ones that we have to think about and do some research.
[22:23.080 --> 22:26.780]  And that's, if that's of interest to you, that's a great way to get that exposure.
[22:27.920 --> 22:30.680]  The next one is the free software directory.
[22:31.100 --> 22:38.620]  So every Friday from noon to three o'clock Eastern Standard Time or Eastern Daylight Time, we have what's called the free software directory.
[22:38.780 --> 22:50.900]  And that's actually what my workshop is about later, is taking a program, examining its license, using tools to kind of look at the files, discovering non-free stuff in there.
[22:50.900 --> 22:58.240]  And the beauty of that is, and this happens all the time, is we will find like, there'll be like two files in there that are non-free.
[22:58.760 --> 23:01.860]  And we have the volunteers reach out to the projects.
[23:01.860 --> 23:06.200]  You know, they'll file an issue, let's say on GitHub, and they'll fix it.
[23:06.380 --> 23:10.500]  And that's really like kind of grassroots, you know, helps free software.
[23:11.360 --> 23:13.320]  The next one is endorsed distros.
[23:13.500 --> 23:19.020]  So one of our programs is we review distributions that are fully free.
[23:19.440 --> 23:24.740]  And then also don't promote non-free software in their materials and stuff.
[23:26.480 --> 23:32.900]  And that's a lot of work because these operating systems, they're very complex.
[23:34.680 --> 23:39.160]  And so if that's something you're interested in, we have those available to you.
[23:39.840 --> 23:44.380]  And then the last one is, it's not really licensing related, but we have these GPL interviews.
[23:44.380 --> 23:50.340]  So if there's kind of cool, interesting projects out there that use the GPLv2 or AGPLv3.
[23:51.240 --> 23:52.460]  What did I say?
[23:52.720 --> 24:03.120]  The GPLv3, AGPLv3, we've tried to promote the latest, even though the GPLv2 is a nice, quite nice license.
[24:03.840 --> 24:13.020]  So if you wanted to learn your editing skills, interacting with interesting people, doing interesting projects, that's certainly an opportunity for you.
[24:13.580 --> 24:15.740]  And that's kind of the licensing side of things.
[24:15.860 --> 24:18.100]  The next one is the campaigns team.
[24:18.960 --> 24:20.580]  And they do a lot of stuff.
[24:20.800 --> 24:22.860]  It's more, this is like actual activism.
[24:23.360 --> 24:25.660]  And there's all kinds of things to get involved with.
[24:26.080 --> 24:27.960]  The first one is the Freedom Ladder.
[24:28.220 --> 24:37.760]  And that is where we're trying to, for people that are stuck on proprietary software, we know they can't get, they're not going to use an X200 that's fully free.
[24:38.740 --> 24:40.260]  But, you know, we can get them going.
[24:40.540 --> 24:42.160]  It's like, you know, take that first step.
[24:42.800 --> 24:47.240]  Get off of Windows, use something that's not Windows or Mac.
[24:48.140 --> 24:49.760]  We have the fight to repair.
[24:50.100 --> 24:53.160]  So that's basically our contributions to the right to repair movement.
[24:53.640 --> 24:59.400]  With, of course, focus on software because you can't repair something if you don't have the source code to it.
[25:00.020 --> 25:01.300]  There's the free JavaScript.
[25:01.300 --> 25:03.480]  So if that's something you're interested in.
[25:03.900 --> 25:06.540]  We also have a set of high priority projects.
[25:07.040 --> 25:13.680]  If you're a hacker, that actually ties into the GNU project.
[25:13.680 --> 25:17.180]  If you want to contribute to GNU, that's a great way to get involved.
[25:17.880 --> 25:20.360]  There's secure boot versus restricted boot.
[25:20.360 --> 25:27.740]  Basically, it's just making sure your computer boots up on free software.
[25:28.940 --> 25:32.300]  And of course, we have programs against surveillance, getting off of Windows.
[25:33.840 --> 25:39.160]  The working together for free software is just trying to collaborate with other free software projects.
[25:39.300 --> 25:41.860]  Getting, you know, getting us talking to each other and that kind of thing.
[25:42.700 --> 25:46.620]  There's the defective by design, which is the, we're against DRM.
[25:47.880 --> 25:58.120]  It's digital rights management, but we like to say digital restrictions management because that's what it's used for is to take away your ability to have control over your data.
[25:58.900 --> 26:02.600]  The end software patents, that's a pretty big one.
[26:04.840 --> 26:07.560]  Basically, software patents need to go away entirely.
[26:07.560 --> 26:09.260]  They never will, but they need to.
[26:12.560 --> 26:16.640]  So nsoftwarepatents.org is a really good resource if you're interested in that.
[26:16.820 --> 26:19.660]  And then there's work to be done in that area.
[26:19.920 --> 26:22.820]  It's a little more kind of lawyer-y stuff.
[26:24.940 --> 26:29.920]  But if you want to help out, I'm sure there's a place that you can get some stuff done.
[26:30.820 --> 26:32.980]  Then there's the campaign for open documents.
[26:33.140 --> 26:36.700]  This is just a general, we need to not have proprietary formats.
[26:38.640 --> 26:40.860]  The campaign for hardware that supports free software.
[26:41.040 --> 26:43.680]  Of course, that's like the RYF program and the Hnode.
[26:43.920 --> 26:45.640]  And then the free BIOS.
[26:46.600 --> 26:50.340]  That's a pretty challenging thing because most BIOSes are locked down.
[26:51.720 --> 26:53.060]  And I think that's it.
[26:53.180 --> 26:56.520]  If anybody has any ideas of how else to get involved, you can just shout them out.
[26:57.260 --> 26:58.720]  So, not at the same time.
[27:00.240 --> 27:04.880]  And if there's any questions, I'd be happy to ask them.
[27:05.260 --> 27:05.820]  Yeah, go over there.
[27:07.420 --> 27:08.320]  Thank you, sir.
[27:12.020 --> 27:18.140]  What is the GPL view on all the LLMs that are trained on all the open and on the free software?
[27:18.420 --> 27:18.860]  Right.
[27:19.020 --> 27:21.260]  That is actually an ongoing thing.
[27:21.800 --> 27:29.220]  Earlier this year, the FSF made an announcement that it's going to make an announcement about LLMs.
[27:29.220 --> 27:30.660]  It's pretty complex.
[27:31.200 --> 27:39.260]  Earlier this year, or maybe within the last year, the OS open-source initiative had published a thing called the open-source definition.
[27:39.620 --> 27:39.920]  Right, no.
[27:40.520 --> 27:42.520]  Open-source AI definition.
[27:43.140 --> 27:46.940]  And it was done with the community.
[27:46.940 --> 27:48.800]  It was a group effort.
[27:50.140 --> 27:53.860]  But I don't think it was as well received as they would have liked.
[27:53.860 --> 27:56.980]  Because, apparently, it's really complex for some reason.
[27:57.280 --> 27:58.220]  I don't know why.
[27:58.760 --> 27:59.600]  I'm not...
[27:59.600 --> 28:03.000]  I have my opinions that aren't very well formed.
[28:03.920 --> 28:04.440]  But, yeah.
[28:04.620 --> 28:08.560]  So, to answer your question, the FSF is going to comment on it.
[28:10.140 --> 28:13.300]  So, at this point, the models themselves can easily...
[28:13.300 --> 28:14.520]  It's licensed under this.
[28:14.680 --> 28:23.000]  But then once you start dealing with the weights and the kind of training aspect of it, then people don't know how those should be licensed.
[28:23.480 --> 28:23.980]  That's it.
[28:24.800 --> 28:25.080]  That's it.
[28:25.080 --> 28:25.420]  Yes.
[28:26.560 --> 28:29.220]  So, I guess my question is, like...
[28:29.220 --> 28:32.200]  I really like the analogy of comparing the situation to combat.
[28:32.580 --> 28:33.000]  And, like...
[28:33.820 --> 28:41.520]  But, at the same time, like, I see, like, a lot of the stuff listed is, like, stuff that's either, like, defensive or, like, stuff to just, like, maintain what already exists.
[28:41.800 --> 28:42.100]  Mm-hmm.
[28:42.600 --> 28:46.600]  Do you think, like, the FSF has, like, the proper roadmap for going on the offensive again?
[28:49.520 --> 28:56.880]  Well, I would say that the GPL stewardship that I talked about earlier, that is, I guess, as offensive as it gets.
[29:00.120 --> 29:03.260]  Because it's not that hard to find people violating it.
[29:03.540 --> 29:05.600]  Like, it's really, unfortunately, very common.
[29:05.600 --> 29:05.760]  Mm-hmm.
[29:05.820 --> 29:08.340]  And we can only deal with, you know, one or two at a time.
[29:11.200 --> 29:11.520]  Yeah.
[29:12.100 --> 29:19.340]  Well, just to kind of... the thought on that is, one of the things I realized, for at least for me, is whatever solution that we get to, it can't be...
[29:19.340 --> 29:23.480]  We can't make an army to defeat an army, because then we'll have an army with nothing to do.
[29:24.180 --> 29:24.400]  You see me?
[29:24.560 --> 29:26.600]  So, it's got to be a peaceful solution.
[29:27.860 --> 29:34.640]  But, yeah, I think the FSF doing the... getting a little more with the compliance and the stewardship stuff is...
[29:34.640 --> 29:35.580]  kind of fits that.
[29:37.360 --> 29:37.780]  Yes?
[29:38.100 --> 29:42.780]  As a potential focus area is phones, because sort of meeting the people where they are.
[29:42.900 --> 29:46.960]  This is... a phone is the most common computing device that the average person has.
[29:46.960 --> 29:56.280]  And I don't see a whole lot of space to help people move to phones that are free software or largely free software.
[29:56.480 --> 29:59.500]  It's walled garden after walled garden after walled garden.
[29:59.840 --> 30:06.680]  And, unfortunately, if you want to have a freer phone, there's a pretty high barrier to entry.
[30:07.200 --> 30:07.720]  Yes.
[30:07.940 --> 30:08.240]  Yes.
[30:08.360 --> 30:12.200]  And, actually, I don't know if it's public information yet.
[30:12.200 --> 30:15.460]  So, I don't think I'll get in too much trouble, because it's right around the corner.
[30:15.460 --> 30:17.860]  But we... the FSF recently got a grant.
[30:18.060 --> 30:22.140]  And we're hiring a contractor to address that specifically.
[30:22.420 --> 30:24.200]  The mobile devices and...
[30:24.200 --> 30:26.260]  Because there are options out there.
[30:26.380 --> 30:27.780]  They're very far and few between.
[30:30.140 --> 30:32.340]  But, again, this is going to get broadcast.
[30:32.580 --> 30:35.520]  I'll just take my lumps if I wasn't supposed to say that.
[30:35.520 --> 30:42.560]  In my view, this is the most important thing for computing devices to be free for freedom as in liberty of the individual.
[30:42.660 --> 30:43.100]  Right, right.
[30:43.280 --> 30:43.360]  Yeah.
[30:43.700 --> 30:44.180]  It's...
[30:44.800 --> 30:45.280]  Yeah.
[30:45.740 --> 30:46.880]  It's working on it.
[30:47.100 --> 30:47.540]  Yes.
[30:47.860 --> 30:53.560]  As far as promotion goes, are... is the FSF doing anything in regards with Software Freedom Day this year?
[30:54.720 --> 30:55.120]  Probably.
[30:55.120 --> 30:55.260]  Probably.
[30:55.800 --> 30:56.800]  That's a...
[30:56.800 --> 30:59.320]  That's something the campaigns team typically handles.
[30:59.480 --> 31:00.280]  It's not really...
[31:00.280 --> 31:02.580]  I mean, I'll participate if there's something to do.
[31:02.680 --> 31:05.560]  But they're the ones that orchestrate any kind of official activity.
[31:06.380 --> 31:07.760]  I think they organize something.
[31:07.900 --> 31:09.840]  They try to put some meet-ups or something together.
[31:10.100 --> 31:10.320]  Yeah.
[31:10.540 --> 31:11.420]  But this is a fan thing.
[31:11.500 --> 31:13.020]  We are doing one in New Jersey this year.
[31:13.220 --> 31:14.180]  So, come join us.
[31:14.320 --> 31:14.800]  Free software.
[31:15.320 --> 31:15.540]  Right.
[31:15.580 --> 31:16.100]  That's what we're doing.
[31:16.100 --> 31:16.640]  Yes.
[31:21.900 --> 31:22.780]  In the back there.
[31:23.120 --> 31:24.360]  Just a question.
[31:24.740 --> 31:25.080]  I...
[31:25.080 --> 31:26.380]  I want to say...
[31:26.380 --> 31:27.220]  I can't say recently.
[31:27.600 --> 31:29.200]  I don't know how long ago this was.
[31:29.400 --> 31:33.260]  But there was a startup that used ChatGPT to generate their license.
[31:33.980 --> 31:35.320]  It was a bad license.
[31:35.480 --> 31:36.160]  A little bit of a couple.
[31:36.660 --> 31:43.940]  I'm just curious if like in the age where a lot of folks are using AI in various different ways.
[31:44.120 --> 31:48.280]  You've seen a lot of it being used with licenses for software.
[31:49.560 --> 31:50.120]  Or...
[31:50.120 --> 31:53.520]  Has that sort of impacted sort of the...
[31:53.520 --> 31:57.060]  Not just like in the training stuff, but more of like in the...
[31:57.060 --> 32:00.520]  Are people like generating licenses with AI?
[32:00.880 --> 32:04.200]  And then has that sort of led to...
[32:04.200 --> 32:11.980]  Not necessarily issues, but interesting situations where somebody might have like maybe hobby-loved language in a license that they were...
[32:13.220 --> 32:14.720]  No, that's a fair question.
[32:15.040 --> 32:16.160]  A good question.
[32:17.160 --> 32:17.760]  So...
[32:20.860 --> 32:23.080]  There's this thing called license proliferation.
[32:24.100 --> 32:24.620]  It's...
[32:24.620 --> 32:27.860]  People keep writing licenses, and I really wish they would stop.
[32:28.380 --> 32:29.480]  We've got plenty.
[32:30.160 --> 32:37.800]  Unless your license is addressing a very specific thing that doesn't exist in other licenses, that's great.
[32:38.080 --> 32:42.180]  But most of the time they're just kind of repeating what's already out there.
[32:42.960 --> 32:44.460]  I will say unnecessarily.
[32:45.360 --> 32:50.900]  If they're using some kind of machine learning application to create this thing, that's probably not going to end well.
[32:51.780 --> 32:53.480]  Because basically we get...
[32:53.480 --> 32:58.160]  People send us licenses to review, and it's like the first question is, has a lawyer looked at it?
[32:58.320 --> 33:00.020]  And if the answer is no, it's like...
[33:01.380 --> 33:02.040]  Thank you.
[33:04.340 --> 33:06.920]  Because that is definitely legal territory.
[33:07.300 --> 33:12.180]  And if, like I said, they're using an ML for something like that, it's probably not going to get much adoption.
[33:12.340 --> 33:15.980]  And if it came across our plate, if we did review it, we would probably...
[33:15.980 --> 33:18.380]  You know, we would give it a fair shake.
[33:19.420 --> 33:23.140]  But normally, if a new license shows up, we ask, like, how...
[33:23.140 --> 33:23.920]  Who's using it?
[33:24.040 --> 33:24.860]  Who wrote it?
[33:25.180 --> 33:25.720]  How many...
[33:25.720 --> 33:28.620]  You know, if it's being used by three programs, it's like, oh, okay.
[33:29.820 --> 33:37.580]  But if, you know, something's catching on, yeah, we want to address it because we do maintain a list of licenses that are, one, free software.
[33:38.020 --> 33:40.220]  Two, are they compatible with the GPL?
[33:40.860 --> 33:41.720]  And if they're...
[33:41.720 --> 33:43.080]  Or if they're not free software...
[33:43.080 --> 33:44.600]  Or free software licenses, yeah.
[33:45.880 --> 33:46.160]  Thank you.
[33:47.020 --> 33:47.380]  Over there.
[33:48.220 --> 33:49.700]  Say you find some...
[33:49.700 --> 33:53.040]  Some group that was not using their license properly, right?
[33:53.180 --> 33:54.900]  What are your, like, important actions?
[33:55.140 --> 34:00.400]  Can you just take them off the list of ones that are following properly, or can you be able to see them if they're using it properly, or...
[34:00.400 --> 34:04.980]  So you're talking about the GPL stewardship, where they've modified it?
[34:06.540 --> 34:14.000]  Well, typically, well, the ones that we've done, we just reach out to them and say, you know, point out our concerns with it.
[34:15.040 --> 34:17.900]  Like I said, some are more obvious than others.
[34:18.580 --> 34:34.540]  There was a company that, if anybody's familiar with the Commons Clause, it's an additional restriction that basically says you can't use this for commercial purposes, and they'll just tack that onto the bottom of the GPL, which technically is fine.
[34:34.640 --> 34:39.040]  They can do that, but they should know that whoever receives that license can just remove it.
[34:39.560 --> 34:41.000]  So it's like, what's the point?
[34:41.340 --> 34:42.820]  So yeah, we just reach out to them.
[34:42.820 --> 34:44.320]  A lot of times, it's just a mistake.
[34:44.800 --> 34:50.480]  Especially if it's like a little project with, you know, like 10 contributors on GitHub, they just don't know, and they'll fix it right away.
[34:51.100 --> 34:56.880]  The responses have been generally cooperative and, you know, it's a teachable moment now.
[34:57.880 --> 34:58.640]  So, cool.
[34:58.760 --> 34:59.220]  Anyone else?
[35:03.040 --> 35:07.240]  Just to expand on the last question, what happens if the response isn't cooperative?
[35:08.000 --> 35:10.260]  Oh, you actually sort of asked that as well.
[35:10.500 --> 35:19.740]  So technically, what's happening is if it's not responsive, they're violating our copyright by modifying a document that's not allowed to be modified.
[35:19.880 --> 35:21.220]  And I mentioned earlier about the trademark.
[35:22.100 --> 35:36.240]  Because we do allow people to, if you want it, if you really like the GPL, but you wanted to make it your own, as long as you take the preamble off, remove any reference to GNU in there and the how to apply it to your program, you can do it.
[35:36.240 --> 35:39.780]  And we won't say anything as long as it's now yours.
[35:40.240 --> 35:42.120]  And you can do whatever you like with it.
[35:43.700 --> 35:45.240]  So, yeah, that's...
[35:45.760 --> 35:46.800]  Does that answer your question?
[35:47.300 --> 35:47.760]  Did I get it?
[35:48.240 --> 35:48.440]  Okay.
[35:49.340 --> 35:49.600]  Cool.
[35:49.660 --> 35:49.980]  Yes, sir.
[35:51.060 --> 35:57.420]  Can the general public license or the copyleft be applied to other things?
[35:57.420 --> 36:03.120]  Like, for example, I've made up some video that I ultimately would like to publish on YouTube.
[36:03.660 --> 36:14.780]  I'm not looking for any monetization, but I want to be able to prevent somebody from copying it and then charging people for it in the future.
[36:15.480 --> 36:16.040]  Okay.
[36:16.900 --> 36:18.660]  Well, that is possible.
[36:19.080 --> 36:26.420]  It's just about finding the definition of source code in whatever you're licensing under.
[36:26.540 --> 36:28.000]  So, video might be a little more trickier.
[36:28.960 --> 36:29.680]  Creative Commons.
[36:29.940 --> 36:30.960]  I was going to...
[36:30.960 --> 36:31.320]  Yes.
[36:31.440 --> 36:32.060]  Creative Commons.
[36:33.160 --> 36:33.720]  Yes.
[36:34.120 --> 36:35.020]  And we do...
[36:35.020 --> 36:37.940]  If you look at our license list, we do recommend the Creative Commons licenses.
[36:38.440 --> 36:38.980]  There's a...
[36:38.980 --> 36:39.540]  There's a...
[36:40.120 --> 36:40.520]  There's a...
[36:40.520 --> 36:42.320]  Non-commercial...
[36:42.320 --> 36:42.940]  CC by...
[36:44.060 --> 36:44.460]  NC...
[36:44.460 --> 36:44.540]  Yeah.
[36:45.600 --> 36:45.920]  So, that...
[36:45.920 --> 36:46.420]  That would do it.
[36:46.600 --> 36:47.300]  That would...
[36:47.740 --> 36:49.360]  And feel free to come by the...
[36:49.920 --> 36:51.580]  The FSF booth and I'd be happy to talk to you.
[36:51.760 --> 36:52.680]  But yeah, the...
[36:52.680 --> 36:54.720]  Look in the Creative Commons licenses.
[36:55.900 --> 36:56.720]  And they can't...
[36:56.720 --> 36:56.860]  They're...
[36:56.860 --> 36:58.560]  They're copyleft and...
[36:58.560 --> 36:58.920]  Cool.
[36:59.480 --> 36:59.980]  All right.
[37:00.540 --> 37:00.720]  Yeah.
[37:01.120 --> 37:01.520]  Oh...
[37:01.520 --> 37:01.800]  Oh...
[37:01.800 --> 37:03.640]  I can give a quick...
[37:04.520 --> 37:08.960]  Working in the research side of the world with scientific instruments, Um...
[37:08.960 --> 37:10.300]  I've had issues where...
[37:10.300 --> 37:10.720]  The vendor...
[37:11.400 --> 37:12.080]  Goes out of business.
[37:12.600 --> 37:13.000]  And...
[37:13.000 --> 37:14.720]  If you don't have the source code to it.
[37:14.840 --> 37:15.100]  As in...
[37:15.100 --> 37:17.680]  If you haven't pressured them to make it open-source or...
[37:17.680 --> 37:18.040]  Free.
[37:19.280 --> 37:19.680]  Um...
[37:19.680 --> 37:20.240]  You're out of luck.
[37:20.500 --> 37:20.560]  Yep.
[37:20.620 --> 37:21.700]  If you need to support it.
[37:21.860 --> 37:22.980]  There's just nothing you can do.
[37:23.160 --> 37:25.200]  Because otherwise it's binary block and good luck.
[37:26.240 --> 37:27.040]  That's unfortunate.
[37:27.060 --> 37:27.280]  Yeah.
[37:27.300 --> 37:28.840]  It may be very expensive.
[37:29.880 --> 37:30.280]  Right.
[37:31.300 --> 37:31.700]  That's...
[37:32.500 --> 37:32.900]  That's...
[37:32.900 --> 37:33.040]  That's...
[37:33.040 --> 37:33.100]  That's...
[37:33.920 --> 37:34.320]  That's...
[37:34.320 --> 37:34.600]  That happens.
[37:35.420 --> 37:36.160]  I'll be in back there.
[37:37.420 --> 37:39.960]  Would you say that the new license is copyright?
[37:41.680 --> 37:42.480]  Well, it's...
[37:42.480 --> 37:43.300]  It's copywritten.
[37:43.460 --> 37:43.560]  Yeah.
[37:44.220 --> 37:44.620]  We...
[37:44.620 --> 37:45.000]  Yeah.
[37:45.020 --> 37:48.340]  The GPL right at the top says copyright free software foundation.
[37:49.400 --> 37:49.800]  This...
[37:49.800 --> 37:52.700]  This document is free to distribute but modifying is not allowed.
[37:55.680 --> 37:57.720]  But it serves as copyleft if that's what you're getting.
[37:59.880 --> 38:00.420]  All right.
[38:00.500 --> 38:01.220]  Well, I'll be at my...
[38:01.220 --> 38:03.160]  The FSF table if anybody has any more questions.
[38:03.160 --> 38:04.100]  And thanks again.
[38:04.500 --> 38:05.440]  Thank you.
[38:06.320 --> 38:07.120]  Thank you.