Incompetent that they must be removed from their positions, Fernandez said today that
some of them end up working in the Board of Education headquarters.
Fernandez admitted it's frustrating to see city taxpayers supporting principals with charges
pending against them, and even those who've been judged incompetent.
But he said many of them cannot be fired because they have tenure.
It's the law.
We have to pay these people, and one of the things that might be helpful is distinguishing
between some of the people that maybe we don't have to pay versus some of them that we do
have to pay.
Like in cases where you have some criminal activity, the possibility of taking these
people off the payroll while you're moving against them.
But there should be something that we can do.
Fernandez says there are some things that can be done to improve principals' performance.
He suggests a tougher evaluation process, a merit pay system to reward the best principals,
and a new method of selecting principals, which would take power away from community
school boards and give it to teachers and supervisors.
This last proposal has drawn harsh criticism from education advocacy groups, who fear that
parents may lose their voice in the principal selection process.
But Fernandez says he thinks it's possible for parents and officials to work together
to hire principals.
He says the real challenge, after all the horror stories, is to restore faith in the
school system.
We have to really convince our community out there and our people that work for us
that we're really looking for quality.
We pay top dollar for our administrators, and we should expect top performance.
But for now, Fernandez acknowledges his goals are a little more modest, like trying to make
sure the city's principals come to school.
For WBAI News, I'm Julie Cohen.
Experts on juvenile violence say while the problem is getting worse, there's some cause
for optimism.
Andy Richter reports.
Over the last few years, juvenile offenders have gotten younger, while the crimes they
are committing are getting bloodier.
That is the finding of the City Council Committee on Youth Services in a series of hearings
on youth violence.
Wednesday afternoon's hearing focused on heading off future violence through programs that
bring students, parents, and teachers together.
Mr. Gordon of Innovative Community Enterprises says the students will rise to meet the challenge.
Look at how well children have mastered the challenges of Nintendo.
Observe how effectively some drug-dealing youngsters have mastered the ins and outs
of making money.
If we can bring joyful educational games and community problem-solving activities, even
some that earn money for children, into the rigors of training in reading, writing, research,
speaking, and critical thinking, we will have taken a giant step toward equipping our youth
to prevent and deal creatively with conflict.
Jeffrey Canada, Program Director for the Riedland Center for Children and Families,
says after-school programs should be extended into the late evenings and weekends.
If professionals are going to deliver services that reduce youth violence, you must spend
significant time with the youth.
That way appropriate role modeling can occur, disputes can be worked out, non-violent coping
skills can be taught, and violence, when it occurs, can be dealt with on the spot, instead
of escalating to the use of weapons or exploding into the school the next day.
The experts say students learn how to deal with conflict not only from adults, but also
from their classmates.
They say peer mediation programs have drastically cut discipline problems.
But even for the kids who do get in trouble, the experts say there is hope.
Aftercare is a city program to follow up on kids with juvenile records.
Lawrence Murray, Assistant Commissioner for Aftercare, says the program has helped thousands
of children since it started seven years ago.
Aftercare works with children released home from detention to identify the kind of help
they need and refers them to appropriate community-based agencies that can provide that help.
It then follows each child for four to six months to monitor his or her progress and
offer supportive counseling.
Because we recognize that education is necessary for a child to be successful, and that truancy
is often a problem among the children who come through our system, aftercare works to
get kids back into school and attending regularly.
Currently over 90 percent of the children enrolled in aftercare are enrolled in school
and attending.
The amount of money the city will give programs like aftercare will be determined in a youth
services budget hearing beginning in two weeks.
For WBAI News, I'm Andrew Richter.
And finally tonight, the city's largest public employees pension fund is moving to end nearly
all investments in companies operating in South Africa.
Mayor Dinkins says the New York City Employees Retirement System Board will vote tomorrow
to divest some $600 million in stock in 40 companies.
The action will set in motion the final and strictest phase of an anti-apartheid plan
begun by the city five years ago.
Dinkins is urging other city pension funds to follow suit.
At a news conference today, he said it was time to redouble efforts against South Africa's
white supremacist policies.
And that's some of the news for Thursday, March 15, 1990.
The news was engineered by Dred Scott Keyes.
It was produced with Jenny Bourne, Julie Cohen, Evelyn Tully-Costa, Andy Richter, and Richard
Vecchio.
I'm Amy Goodman in New York with Don Rush in Washington for WBAI Listener Supported
News.
No, that's not our new theme, but it's just something I happened to find and brought back
a lot of memories, you know, watching late night TV.
Well, it's late night radio, folks, late night live radio.
Here on WBAI in New York, it's Emanuel Goldstein with The Fifth Corner.
And we've got quite a lot of ground to cover tonight.
We've got the general manager of WFMU as our guest.
We'll be talking about non-commercial radio, community radio, dare I say it, fascist radio,
all kinds of neat things like that.
And we'll be taking your calls, so stay with us here on Listener Supported WBAI 99.5 FM.
Before we go into our topic, I want to play something that I just pieced together today.
In fact, it's a song from the past, 1970, and the lyrics are just so, so, oh, I don't
know, they're just so today, I guess, with what's going on with the environment and things
like that.
A song from Roger Waters that came off an album, an album entitled The Body.
And very rare, if anybody has this, I have to personally commend you for finding it.
This is a song called Breathe here on WBAI.
We'll be back in a minute.
Breathe in the air.
Look for the meadow and savour the grass while it lasts.
By and by, spiderly fingers of industry reach the sky.
Brick upon brick, stone upon stone, they grow, choking the atmosphere oh so incredibly slowly.
Sulphur and carbon and hydrogen, sulphide and lime.
Favour corrosion and cover your cities with grime.
Something is killing the land before your eyes.
And the sunshine is not to blame.
Could be the insane, inhumane games we play day by day.
Ripper and foe, mushrooming home in a crowd, I'm alone.
Close your eyes, lie still.
You are a mountain stream and I'm a hill.
Far, far away.
There is a field of blossom and bees and new-mown hay.
Breathe in the air.
Breathe in the air.
Breathe in the air.
Breathe in the air.
Breathe in the air.
And even if you are fortunate enough to have that record,
there's no way you could have heard that version of that song,
because that's something that we made up tonight,
and pieced together instrumentals and vocals and all kinds of things like that,
so it would have a beginning and an end,
off a record called The Body, Roger Waters, Ron Gieson,
and a song called Breathe, here on WBAI.
And tonight, it's one of those self-referential programs, I suppose.
About two weeks ago, we talked about non-commercial radio,
the various problems and challenges and all kinds of things going on in non-commercial radio.
Usually we talk about radio when we do these shows,
and just commercial radio versus non-commercial radio,
but now it seems that within non-commercial radio itself,
there are these forces that are seeking to actively destroy other elements of non-commercial radio.
Now, just what are we talking about?
Well, we're going to get into that in quite a lot of detail.
First, I'd like to take a look at the program guide from another radio station,
WFMU, in New Jersey, Upsala College.
They're at 91.1 FM on the same FM dial that we're on, in fact, just a few numbers down.
And they put out a program guide very recently,
and it goes into some detail as far as what's going on with that radio station.
And folks, it's scary.
It's really scary to hear the kind of things that are going on,
the threats, just the bad things that are happening.
Let's get into this, and then we'll talk to the general manager of that station.
We'll talk to you and see if we can reach any conclusions about all of this.
The title of the letter, the main letter in this program guide,
The Campaign to Destroy WFMU, plus some good news.
WFMU ended the decade of greed with a year that provided enough disasters to destroy us several times over,
but during which we managed to pick up and move two decades' worth of radio into our new custom-designed home.
The year-long project of designing and building new studios was punctuated in the spring
by eight weeks of ghoulish bad luck and technical disasters.
The incredible success of last April's marathon made it possible not only to physically move the station,
but to restructure it so that it might run more smoothly in the future.
Then, in the same month, a problem emerged that made all the fried transmitters in the world seem about as serious as a stubbed toe.
Ever since, the situation here has felt like we won 15 million bucks in the lottery,
then on the way to the bank found out that the funny lump on our side might be malignant.
Throughout it all, we haven't been able to publish LCD, which is the name of the program guide.
This is the first issue since October of 1988.
The problem hasn't been one of money, as much of time.
We're not as organized as we might seem, and with too much work falling into too few hands,
it was necessary to choose between the station's health and our promise to publish LCD.
I apologize to those of you who frittered away in 1989, waiting for the issue that never arrived.
But don't worry, the plan now is to bring it back from this plane of existence and issue into it the breath of life.
Okay, first the good news. It's simpler.
We're in the new house, and we managed to do it nearly on time and well within budget.
Unpacking all the boxes and getting settled in may take a few more months,
but the project that at times seemed too ambitious for the likes of us is almost completed.
Endless thanks to the listeners, whose contributions of money, talent, labor, and love made it all possible.
Over 200 people helped out during the last year, but there are several who must be singled out for praise.
Well, no offense to them, but we are going to skip over that because we want to get into the main thrust of all this.
The move involves so many listeners that we've almost become a true volunteer organization again.
To meet so many different people who love the station makes the phenomenon of WFMU almost tangible.
The energy that this project infused the station with affected other areas of our operation,
and it should keep us going for some time, which is a good thing, because we're going to need it.
Just as we're finishing up the gargantuan task of building a new station,
we face the most serious problem that has ever threatened us.
Last April, two radio stations filed a complaint with the Federal Communications Commission,
saying that WFMU's service area has been miscalculated since 1962,
and that because of this, we should drop our power to less than half of what it is now.
Our opponents claim that a 1962 error has caused our signal to overlap slightly with theirs,
and that these tiny amounts of overlap, a total of about four square miles, must be eliminated.
In order to achieve this goal, they are proposing that the FCC immediately reduce WFMU's power from 1,440 to 650 watts.
They are unconcerned that doing this would strip WFMU's signal from Manhattan, Brooklyn, and huge chunks of New Jersey.
Their engineering statements make no mention of the hundreds of thousands of listeners who,
after enjoying and supporting WFMU for as long as a quarter of a century, would suddenly lose the station for good.
And their legal arguments ignore the fact that if our power were cut by more than half,
we would no longer be able to support ourselves.
Missing from the pages and pages of charts, tables, and maps is the fact that losing half our listeners would mean the extinction of WFMU.
At the time, I saw this attack as a financial burden and an administrative headache,
but I felt that if we approached it responsibly and hired broadcast lawyers and consulting engineers, we would prevail.
After all, we have been broadcasting this way for 25 years,
and cutting back now would deprive a large population of a service they've long relied on,
something the FCC does not like to do.
But by last November, it became clear that our opponents are well-funded and intent on decimating our coverage area
so that their stations, already huge, can expand even further.
Their lawyers and engineers are portraying us as reckless usurpers of the air,
thieves who have buried their treasure for 25 years and who now must be brought to swift justice.
In reality, the mistake on our license was contained in a faulty study conducted by RCA, then a reputable broadcasting consultant.
The error occurred not our antenna height, but topographic measurements of the surrounding terrain,
and nobody at the station had any reason or the means to question the RCA study.
Even the FCC did not notice the mistake.
The 1962 license application was approved in 1965, and the FCC has renewed our license numerous times since then.
Nobody noticed the mistake until these two non-commercial stations went looking for a way that they could expand their own coverage areas.
They pulled our files in Washington, did their own analysis, and discovered the error.
They promptly reported the mistake to the FCC, who ordered us to file an application to correct the discrepancy in our license.
This we did. Contrary to what these three stations are saying to the press, this mistake does not mean that WFMU is breaking the law.
The FCC has jurisdiction over this matter, and we have complied with everything they have told us to do.
We will continue to do so.
In the spirit of broadcast camaraderie and in an attempt to spend us into the ground,
our opponents courted four other stations to oppose our application.
Three declined the offer, but one of these stations merrily joined in, making it three against one.
Together, our three adversaries have over 80,000 watts of power.
We have 1,440.
Cumulatively, the three of them have an annual operating budget of over $2 million, much of which comes in federal and institutional support.
Our annual budget is $135,000, comprised entirely of listener contributions.
With odds like this, what is proper or ethical becomes academic.
I won't name the stations behind the attack here to prevent even the possibility of a libel charge,
something our opponents would probably stoop to despite the accuracy of what I'm saying.
We're also not mentioning the stations by name on the air for the same reason.
Now, if you're angry and want to do something about it, that's good. We were hoping for that kind of reaction.
Our lawyers and technical consultants may help us, and they are absolutely necessary in this fight,
but ultimately, they won't save WFMU. WFMU will save WFMU.
Now, it goes into a bit of specifics as to what to do,
but I think since we have Ken Friedman, the general manager of WFMU, here in the studios of WBAI,
we might as well just defer to him and see where this all stands at the moment.
Ken, welcome to WBAI.
Thanks.
Anything new since that letter came out?
Since that program guide was published? Yeah, there's a whole bunch of new stuff.
Since then, FMU's gotten a big firm with a big communications department in Washington, D.C.
to take the case on pro bono, so it seems like we'll probably be able to hang in as long as it takes.
It's looking like it's going to be a real long time before it resolves itself.
When did this first start? When was the first inkling of trouble?
February of 89.
So it was just over a year ago.
Yeah. February of 89, we got this letter from CTI, an engineering firm representing WKTW,
down at the Jersey Shore in WSHU in Connecticut.
WSHU being the national public radio station in Connecticut that recently has been expanding,
seems all over the place.
Trying to, yeah.
What is, in your opinion, happening to non-commercial radio?
I never thought such a thing could be possible, where other stations would be trying to take over
the frequencies held by existing stations.
Well, public radio is eating itself.
I think what you have in the non-commercial end of the dial, 88 to 92 FM,
are huge non-commercial stations, sometimes larger than commercial stations,
right next to, in terms of frequency, small college stations, such as WFMU,
although WFMU is probably medium-sized for a college station.
Now, WFMU has been on the air since 1962?
Since 58, actually.
And you just recently moved into that house.
Yeah, we built ourselves new studios and offices.
So you're not looked upon as the kind of station that is a national public radio station, I suppose.
No, we're not an NPR station.
But you're not looked upon in the same way.
You're kind of run by a bunch of students or volunteers, more like BAI, I suppose.
Yeah, FMU is kind of a musical BAI.
There's a lot of talk on FMU also, but much more music.
We probably reflect our politics a lot more through music and through what we try to do with radio
than as directly as BAI does.
You're on 24 hours a day?
Yeah.
Now, your frequency is 91.1.
That's the same frequency as WSHU, which is in Connecticut.
Yeah.
And the same frequency as WKTW.
Which is where?
In Toms River, New Jersey.
I see.
Down at the Jersey Shore.
Now, I should point out that this is not an isolated case.
There's all kinds of other crazy things going on in the non-commercial radio world.
WSHU also has incurred the wrath of WUSB out in Stony Brook, Long Island,
for wanting to operate a station at 89.9, which is adjacent to their 90.1 frequency,
operate that station on Long Island, which would take away quite a few listeners out there.
Also, this WPKN Bridgeport, Connecticut, which I understand has come within a hair's breadth
of being taken over by another public radio entity in Connecticut, Connecticut Public Radio.
Now, that's different than WSHU.
WSHU is not a Connecticut Public Radio station.
But I understand Connecticut Public Radio and WSHU don't get along all that well.
They're both NPR affiliates, but they're sort of competing with each other, I guess.
Both Connecticut Public Radio and WSHU, supposedly, from what I've heard,
are interested in starting stations on Long Island as well,
right next to or on top of existing community stations like WUSB out there.
And what this has done is it's made a lot of people think,
what's happening to public radio?
Have they gotten imperialist or something?
But the biggest threat to non-commercial radio was perhaps the religious broadcasters
who seem to be popping up left and right and taking valuable non-commercial radio space
by selling their particular products.
Well, I mean, what you see happening is non-commercial radio stations
behaving exactly like commercial entities.
But that sort of makes sense because stylistically and in terms of their format,
they very much resemble commercial radio stations.
Well, they have tons of money, these stations.
They get funded from Washington, D.C.
There's a requirement. It's called the CPB requirement.
The government won't give you money until you're big enough to deserve it.
Right, exactly. You have to have five full-time employees.
I think it's five or is it seven?
Five. They just lowered it.
All right, five full-time employees.
And once you get that, then you can get all this money from
the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
If you have less than that, you're too small and you can't get any money,
which means that you stay small.
It kind of reflects our economic system, I suppose.
Now, what is going on with WFMU?
Are the listeners outraged by this? What has been happening?
Yeah, the listeners are outraged and they've really come to our aid.
And I think the entire broadcast community has been hearing about this.
And I think we have the support of a lot of stations
all around the area here and all around the country.
Has this case gotten out to the rest of the country?
Do people know what's going on?
Within community radio circles right now, yeah.
And there's been a tremendous outpouring,
and it looks like FMU is going to be able to at least hang in there
to defend our right to exist.
And that was not always so certain,
because when this first started happening,
and we started looking down the road at legal costs,
that at first seemed like $15,000 at the worst,
then $30,000, and now we have spent $100,000
just defending our right to exist for the last year.
And the last fiscal year ended, our entire operating budget was $130,000.
And we don't have any support outside of listener contributions.
We get no grants, no institutional support from Uppsala College.
Any underwriting?
No underwriting.
We've always rejected underwriting on principle.
So where is this money coming from?
Are you asking for more from the listeners?
Yes, we are going to ask for much more
when we start fundraising a week from Monday on March 26th.
Now, WPKN, the station in Bridgeport, Connecticut,
they, last year, they lost all of their funding
from the University of Bridgeport,
which is a school that's in horrible financial shape from what I hear.
And they face a big threat.
Well, they faced a big threat then.
They were originally going to ask for about $30,000
during their last marathon, and suddenly they lost their budget.
They had to ask for a lot more.
The future of WPKN was at stake, and they appealed to the listeners,
and the listeners really responded.
They raised over $100,000 in one month.
Yeah, it looks like PKN is going to be all right.
It looks like, well, they have the support of the listeners.
There's no question about that.
Now, PKN is kind of more of a musical station.
I guess most stations are more musical than WBAI.
There's a lot of similarities between PKN and FMU.
Uh-huh. Yeah.
So then again, though, they face the problem,
the ever-present problem of bigger stations surrounding them,
wanting to take them over, absorb them.
And it's felt that these stations might actually challenge their license,
which comes up for renewal this year, which seems so incredible.
When you think of the community service, the true community service
that WPKN performs, they have one radio show
that's aimed at prisoners inside Connecticut's prisons.
They have all kinds of children's programming
and traditional folk and all that kind of thing.
And here you have these stations that play the same thing
that all the other stations around the country are playing at the same time.
They just take it off the satellite.
You walk into these stations, and there's maybe four people there,
and no one else is doing anything. There's no production.
You walk into a station like yours, and there's 50 people around
yelling and screaming and producing things.
Sometimes there's nobody there.
Sometimes there's only machines there.
Isn't that illegal? Don't they have to have at least one person?
They're supposed to.
But there can be one person who walks in once an hour,
or even less frequently than that.
There seems to be a proliferation of new non-commercial stations
that are simply translators or simulcasters,
and there's nobody actually there.
It's just a satellite dish rebroadcasting another station's signal.
We had the same thing out on Long Island.
With a tone that turns the transmitter on and off?
Yeah, and sometimes it messes up, and some funny things happen.
But there's a station out on Long Island now
that rebroadcasts a religious station in New Jersey.
Yeah, that's been another big problem that has been around
non-commercial radio for the last five or so years, maybe even longer.
It's been the Moody Bible Institute, a group of religious broadcasters,
trying to grab up all the available translators,
which are low-power repeater transmitters for stations.
Normally they're just supposed to be used
to rebroadcast the main signal to fill in an area.
The Moody Bible Institute has been trying to set up a network
by grabbing these things up all over the country,
and public radio fought that.
Only because they wanted to do it themselves.
That problem is also sort of on hold.
They worked out a compromise.
What do you think is the state of community radio today?
How many community radio stations are there in this area that you can see?
That's really hard to say,
because it's hard to say exactly what community radio is.
There's probably three to five community-oriented stations in this area.
Is that down over the last ten years, or are we pretty much holding our own?
No, actually over the last ten years it's probably going up.
I think a lot more college stations around the country
have taken on a lot more responsible role in terms of community programming,
and looking beyond the dorms,
which is what the FCC wanted to happen with college radio.
I think that's happened, which is good.
All right, well we're going to take some phone calls.
Our telephone number is 212-279-3400.
I'd like to hear what your feelings are about non-commercial radio,
about commercial radio, the state of either one of them,
and maybe a station in your area that has been affected by all this.
If you have any comments about the WFMU situation
or any of the other radio stations we mentioned, or even WBAI.
The good thing about community radio is you can talk about other radio stations,
which is something that you'd never be able to get away with on a commercial station,
because at least stations like this, we're not competing with the other stations.
What Ken mentioned before, these stations are competing.
They're acting like professional or commercial radio stations,
and they're almost airing commercials.
Not quite at that stage yet.
Certainly they are.
What's an underwriting announcement?
It's a commercial.
Well, it's not a crazy-eddy commercial, though.
They're moving in that direction.
Enhanced underwriting.
The laws concerning what is allowable in an underwriting announcement
have loosened up progressively.
Where do you see that going?
Where it's gone.
Underwriting has turned into commercials.
So are they going to eliminate non-commercial radio altogether
and just say you can do whatever you want?
I thought they were going to do that a couple of years ago,
but it hasn't happened yet, so perhaps it won't.
It really looked like it was moving in that direction.
A couple of years ago, there were all these editorials
and calls for Channel 13 to just call a spade a spade
and become a commercial television station.
212-279-3400.
No speeches, please.
Just give us your thoughts, comments, and let us know your feelings.
Good evening.
Hello, is anyone there?
Hello?
Yes, go ahead.
I'm very concerned about the fact that the FCC couldn't figure things out,
but I guess there's an awful lot to know.
However, I'm also very concerned about WBAI.
This is Monroe, by the way.
Ken?
Yeah.
Listen, I don't know to what extent knowledge of what goes on in WBAI
is known in the field, though possibly you've listened.
It's really a problem for a listener.
I have no way of knowing how many calls are coming in.
Naturally, in an environment that has millions of people who could be calling
or potential subscribers, I was shocked to see that Andrew Phillips says
that there are only 13,000 subscribers to WBAI.
And, you know, I won't ask you, although I should ask you,
are you a subscriber to WBAI?
But, of course, you'll say, well, you know, it's ironic.
No, I'm not.
I'm not a subscriber to WBAI.
Huh?
I'm not a subscriber to BAI.
It's ironical.
They're such a wonderful station.
See, I always preface my remarks, really, by saying this is a wonderful station.
There are so many important programs.
First of all, I don't know if you can use the word ironical in that context,
but, Monroe, do you have a question?
Well, let me say it this way.
My fundamental question is who are the people who run,
like I've been to Pacifica meetings,
who are the people who run WBAI
because what input does the listener really have to have any kind of voting
or concern to even know who these people are who populate Pacifica,
who choose Rosemarie Reed for station manager?
She's nice on certain situations.
Others I find are very tyrannical.
So, I mean, I don't understand.
Now, WBAI has decided that the world's ending on March 30th
because they don't have any program notes in the folio.
Have you noticed that?
I mean, it's just unbelievable.
What I'm going through is a loyal listener.
Well, you certainly are a loyal listener, and you're a very loyal caller.
You always wind up being number one on the phone dial.
You brought up some good questions, and we'll do our best to answer them.
Let's go on to some more calls, though.
I'll just say to Monroe that, you know, it's tough running a radio station.
It sure is.
Based on free principles.
I mean, we have people running through the halls screaming at the top of their lungs every day here.
I'm sure BAI is doing the best it can, and we all do the best we can.
Good evening. You're on.
Hi. Good evening, Ken. Good evening, Emmanuel.
Hi.
Hello.
Has anybody noticed what's happened to NYC FM?
Yeah.
They've got more middle of the road with their music.
Oh, I disagree completely.
You serious, Ken?
Yeah, I think they've loosened way up.
I'm really happy with the way NYC's been going musically.
Now, let's ask the caller.
What musically do you see happening that you don't like?
They just seem to be going much more middle of the road.
You used to be able to hear things like, I don't know, music like Steve Reich and more, I don't know,
slightly out of the middle road 20th century, well, contemporary music on the station.
Now, it's kind of restricted to wishy-washy new age music.
I don't really listen that much anymore, but like David Garland's program,
I'm hearing things that I never would have thought I'd hear on WNYC.
But he's the exception to the rule.
Yeah.
Oh, is this Tony?
Yeah.
Hi.
How you doing, Ken?
Good. Tony's an FMU listener and supporter.
Ah.
And a BAI subscriber and supporter.
Is he always the first one to call in on your call-in shows?
Not at all.
Okay.
And an NYC supporter and subscriber.
Do you have any other question or statement about this whole situation?
No, not really.
I just, you know, I think things are tough for public radio,
and I think that the trend seems to cater to the middle of the road.
I think that's happening in NYC.
Uh-huh.
Well, mass appeal, you know,
that's words I never thought I would hear in non-commercial radio.
They're talking demographics.
They're talking arbitrons.
You know, it's terrible.
It's scary.
Where is it leading?
Well, as long as the content remains, you know,
dealing with real issues, it's okay.
But when they shy away from controversial things and just play safe stuff,
then it kind of loses the whole…
Tell me something, and I'm not saying that they haven't done it,
but tell me something controversial that WNYC has done themselves,
not taking something from NPR.
What have they done that's controversial themselves?
What have they done that's controversial?
I know something they're doing that's controversial.
Okay, let's hear it.
Tony, do you know any programming that's controversial?
On NYC?
Yeah.
No, of course not.
But, well, I mean, they have very excellent news and interview programs.
Right, but are those locally produced, or are they from NPR?
Yeah, some of them are locally produced, and they're really fine.
They're about the best there are on the radio.
Okay.
But as far as really kind of, you know, current issues
and getting to the bottom of things and calling a spade a spade,
it doesn't really happen because I think they try to be very careful,
which they have to be.
But it's a shame.
I mean, you know, so there's just BAI where nobody's really frightened
of getting to the bottom of issues.
No, we stamp on the foot of authority.
Ken, you had a thought on NYC?
Oh, I actually probably shouldn't talk about that.
Okay.
You've got to be careful here.
They're suing a small publisher over a very silly thing.
They're being very petty.
Well, most lawsuits are rather silly.
Thanks so much for calling, and keep listening to both of our fine stations.
Okay.
Bye, Tony.
279-3400, good morning.
Yeah, hi, good morning.
I'm sorry.
I tuned in just briefly a few minutes ago,
and I live in Huntington on Long Island,
and occasionally I get WFMU.
Am I not hearing?
I mean, am I missing something?
Did something happen there?
Wait a minute.
You live in Huntington?
You're able to get WFMU?
Yeah.
That seems incredible to me because I get WSHU over them in Queens.
Yeah, I have trouble getting WFMU in my own office.
Yeah, I'm really kind of lucky
in that I really have antennas on my house.
Yeah, I figured you had some kind of special equipment.
Wow, you must really have gone to a lot of work.
Do you get WPKN as well?
Oh, of course.
PKN comes in loud and clear.
In fact, I've picked PKN up in Queens as far as Queens.
Do you get WUSB?
USB, strangely enough, has like probably one of the worst signals
of any radio station on Long Island.
I hear you.
That's something.
Being involved with that radio station, too,
I can tell you that's something that's been an albatross
and something that that radio station is trying to solve.
But again, it takes money, it takes listeners,
and they're out there.
There's a lot of support in community radio.
You find that out.
It takes a crisis to find that out.
Absolutely.
In fact, BAI, I do a lot of work out east,
and I can pick BAI out as far as Yappank.
I mean, I'll pick up BAI more than I will USB sometimes,
even in Suffolk County, which is funny.
Could you just briefly, you're probably doing a show on FMU,
and I missed what was happening.
Just briefly, can you tell me what happened?
Yeah, what's happening at FMU is three big public radio stations
are trying to become even bigger by decimating our coverage area,
by cutting us down by more than half,
and they're trying to use a 30-year-old, actually a 28-year-old error
as a reason for doing it.
Are you saying they're going to sort of snuff your signal?
They're trying to.
They're trying very hard to.
They've been trying for the last year to have our power cut down to 650 watts.
Oh, that's bad, to cut your power down.
Yeah.
It's sort of one thing to come in and do what you want to do with your power,
but don't cut my power down.
Do you agree with that?
Do you think that having the, I don't know, maybe that's...
No, I think you can mess another station up,
even if you leave them alone and just try to increase yourself.
I think that's what's happening with SHU on Long Island.
What's amazing is none of these stations are affected by you in the slightest
inside their primary coverage area.
No, they are.
They discovered small amounts of overlap between our coverage area
and their coverage areas.
Their primary coverage area?
Yeah.
What particular areas are we talking about?
Well, the 60 dBu contour, which is...
But where is this?
That's the technical name for it.
Where are the areas of overlap?
As far as FMU and SHU, a tiny little area in Connecticut, right on the Sound,
and also in Long Island, right on the Sound.
Really?
Yeah, and then in Toms River, just somewhere right around Lakewood, New Jersey.
But why wasn't this ever noticed before?
Because they're tiny, tiny amounts of overlap.
They only affect 3,000 people.
We're talking about a tenth of 1% of WKTW's signal is affected by the overlap.
And the FCC permits it to allow overlap up to 10%.
Here we're talking about a tenth of 1%.
Now, if the cards were turned, if it was the other way around,
what do you think would be happening now?
I certainly, WFMU certainly would not be behaving like these stations are behaving.
Why?
Because there are other ways to build an audience
besides trying to take over your neighbors.
You know, I can understand every station wants to increase its audience.
It's a natural tendency, I guess.
How have your listeners responded to this?
Oh, they've come out for us.
They've been incredible.
And I think they're going to really show what it means to them when we have our fun drive.
Yeah, that's really good because, for instance, I know at WPKN,
their fundraisers were fairly successful, and USBs were, weren't they?
WUSBs was very successful.
They had their first fundraiser last year.
In fact, they're about to have their second.
And the purpose of the fundraiser is to raise enough money to actually move the transmitter
so that people like yourself will be able to actually hear the station,
and a lot more people will be able to.
But it's kind of a race, kind of a race against time,
because the public radio giants are sort of moving in and saying,
well, we want this frequency since you're not using it.
We're going to take over this particular part of the island.
And if they move in first, if they move in first, then WUSB is out of luck.
I can't, I don't understand that.
What you're saying is that the university which has that signal of 90.1
or any other college that might have a signal like PKN of 89.5,
those signals can be in jeopardy because of, can you just explain that again?
Yeah, well, now what WSHU wants to do is they want to open up a radio station
out on the eastern part of Long Island at 89.9, which is
WSHU is Sacred Heart University.
That's right, yes.
They want to start a new radio station, or I should say a satellite of their original station.
They want to start three new radio stations.
Well, they want a booster for their signal.
They want two other frequencies on Long Island,
one at 88.3 and surely one at 89.9, I believe in Sag Harbor.
And the thing is, if you look on paper, the signals don't overlap now.
But WUSB has been planning to expand for years now,
and they've been raising the money.
And if this station were to go on the air first in Sag Harbor,
WUSB wouldn't be able to expand because they'd have to protect that station.
They'd have to protect the signal that's being duplicated three times over
within only a couple of frequencies.
And it would be very ironic for that to happen, especially at this stage in the game.
So it's a critical time for many radio stations.
What interest suddenly do universities have in expanding their range in,
I mean, especially Connecticut to Long Island, like you're saying?
Surely, I mean, this is like, I don't understand.
What interest is there?
Well, like we mentioned before, the larger a station is,
the larger a noncommercial station is, the more it can get in federal funding.
It's very attractive for a university to have National Public Radio
or any other entity like that come in and say,
we'll buy your station, we'll run your station,
and there'll be lots of great publicity for your particular university.
Sacred Heart University was a community radio station.
I don't know how much like FMU or USB or PKN it was, but it was run by students.
Now it's not run by any students at all.
It's run by professional people.
It's still affiliated with Sacred Heart University, and it's great PR for them.
You know why they're doing it? Because it's, for one thing, it's ambition.
It's just they want to become a bigger station.
It's worth money, and audience is worth money.
Access to that audience is worth money, and it's also prestige.
It's just very prestigious for colleges to have their radio stations getting bigger and bigger
and crossing state boundaries and building a public radio empire.
And the funny thing is that a lot of times students are looked upon as kind of inconvenient.
You know, they get in the way, they make mistakes, they put something controversial on,
whereas if you're tied into something that has been proven to be popular
and will get people to listen and get people to pledge money, that's so much safer.
It's so much safer to go that road.
I've got to give the universities that have stuck by their non-commercial radio stations credit
for not bowing into this and for allowing creativity to exist in what's supposed to be a creative setting.
I agree, and I think for the most part USB is a fairly decent station.
I mean, I don't listen to it during the day because the format is just monotonous at times,
but there are syndicated, shall we say, left-oriented programs that are fairly good.
Oh, they carry Pacifica News, you know.
Yeah, I listen to that.
Actually, it comes over the phone line, so it's not as clear as BAI's,
but I mean it's very good for people who live out east who don't get to listen to BAI.
So, well, thanks for letting me talk and giving me the information tonight, guys.
Okay, and keep listening to all these amazing stations that are around.
Hopefully they'll be around for a while.
And I want to take a slight break here, give out some addresses,
and talk a little bit about what these stations are.
Now, Ken here has a fundraiser coming up for WFMU.
Do you want to tell us when that is and what people can do to help out?
Yeah, it starts a week from Monday, March 26th, and it's going for two weeks.
And I guess WBAI listeners could do a number of things to help.
They could make a small pledge to WFMU just to put themselves.
It's like just voting for noncommercial radio.
Even a $5 or $10 pledge would just put you on a map that we would, you know,
submit to the FCC to show that WFMU has a vast reach in the area, which we do.
So we're trying to attract a lot of new contributors this year.
Now, how many fundraisers do you have in a year?
One year.
We get all our money from listener contributions.
So this one fundraiser is your entire source of income.
Yeah.
How long does it run?
Up until this year, we had always been able to do it in nine days out of the year,
raise all our money in just nine days.
And this year we're expanding it by five days.
We're doing a two-week fundraiser.
Two weeks.
And what's your—do you have a goal yet?
Yeah, our goal is $250,000, and that'll kind of be unheard of.
It's kind of scary.
That's kind of scary.
That's something that BAI finds kind of scary.
And we've got New York City and Brooklyn and Queens.
Yeah, well, we've got parts of New York City and Brooklyn.
No part of Queens, though.
So is there an address or a phone number?
Yeah, our phone number is 201-266-7911.
That's the fundraising phone number for those two weeks.
And also people could write letters of support.
If they're FMU listeners, they can write us letters of support.
And if they're not FMU listeners,
they could either check the station out and then write a letter of support,
or they could just write a general letter of support
for free-form, non-commercial radio.
And the address to send letters to is
WFMU Attention Station Manager, Uppsala College, UPSALA.
And that's in East Orange, New Jersey.
07019.
And we'll give the address out again a little later on.
Yeah, we'll do that towards the end of the program.
Also, the other two radio stations we were referring to, WPKN,
they've had a tremendous amount of trouble over the last year
with losing their operating budget from the university
and dealing with these other entities
that find their signal very desirable
and are making life kind of difficult
by threatening to take them over and turn them into
a rebroadcaster of public radio stations.
I know they'll be having some kind of fundraiser, I think, in the fall.
They were actually able to raise all the money they needed
for at least the interim last fall,
and hopefully that will keep them going for a while.
But their WPKN, I don't have an address for them,
but I do know if you just write WPKN, University of Bridgeport,
Connecticut, and throw five digits at random or something,
I'm sure it will get there somehow.
And their phone number, if I recall correctly,
is 203-576-4895.
And if it's not, apologize to the person that you woke up,
but I'm pretty sure that's it.
And WUSB is the station out in Stony Brook, New York,
in Suffolk County.
And since I do things out at that radio station too,
the similarities between that radio station,
your radio station, WFMU, and WBAI,
there's always a struggle.
It's always trying to get something accomplished,
to get over a hurdle.
And lots of times, more often than not, the hurdles are gotten over,
and it's a great feeling when you do that.
And right now, at WUSB, the hurdle is getting the transmitter moved
so that more people will be able to hear it
in the listening range of WUSB,
and hopefully beat out the more powerful,
richer stations that want
that same chunk of the listeners.
I know WUSB is having a fundraiser.
It's starting on April 5th and running to the 14th.
Their goal is, it's embarrassing,
their goal is a measly $30,000.
Now it seems like you guys are out for $250,000.
When I say the goal is $30,000,
that was the goal before this whole WSHU business came up,
and before all these other things started happening.
In reality, the station needs about $100,000
to actually do everything that it needs to do.
You're trying to raise the tower?
You're trying to raise your antenna higher?
Well, right now the tower is a very low height.
Moving it even 100 feet up would increase
the signal range tremendously.
Folks like Calder and Huntington would be able to
actually get another community radio station
that does original, creative things.
Their fundraiser is going from April 5th to 14th.
There's a phone number you can call
if you want to be involved in that, or pledge,
or find out more information about the radio station.
632-6498.
And their address, and this address will work,
because they worked it out with the post office,
is WUSB, Stony Brook, New York, 11790.
And you can write to them or support them.
But also don't forget WBAI New York,
because we're the station that allows
lots of different things to go on the air.
There are lots of community radio stations around.
Yeah, non-commercial radio in the New York area is pretty good.
It's not like that in other parts of the country.
No, it's got about the worst commercial radio in the country,
but probably the best non-commercial radio.
But it's only going to survive if people support it,
both support it by listening, by spreading the word,
and by contributing what you can afford.
And the non-commercial stations have really been,
the ones that aren't busy getting gobbled up,
are really banding together.
I really appreciate being able to come on BAI and discuss this program.
The other stations have been helping us out a lot.
That's what it's all about.
Radio is something that gets in your blood.
You realize the importance of being able to speak out about various things,
whether it's Nelson Mandela or simply your own radio station.
Freedom of speech is the catchphrase here.
College and community radio are programmed
to care about music and care about radio,
and care about culture,
as opposed to what the interests of people who run
larger non-commercial and commercial stations are.
And is it ever a learning experience,
as far as being exposed to different cultures,
different ways of doing things,
and just building up, doing different things
that aren't feasible in the commercial world
or in the professional world of non-commercial radio?
I wanted to give out one other phone number.
FMU is a pretty difficult station to pick up in a lot of places.
A lot of times people don't even know what they're looking for on the dial.
So we set up a phone number
that you can call up and hear FMU at any given moment.
Do you find that that's taken up by people
who just can't listen and feel they want to call?
Yeah, people call up at work and put it on their speaker phones.
We have programs from Michigan and California.
How many people can call at once?
I think eight. Eight people?
Yeah, there's people who live in other states.
That's a good idea. That's a very good idea.
So that number is 201-644-2339.
And FMU's frequency is 91.1.
Between that phone number and a dipole antenna
and careful use of your mono switch,
that's FMU.
And I don't want to speak out against NPR
because I do happen to like a lot of their programming.
These NPR stations that are behaving this way,
they're not the network.
They're the individual stations.
The network is not responsible for what the individual stations are doing.
I think they've caught some commercial radio fever
by being given a bit of power, a lot of money, and control over people.
I think WSHU, I think, see their last chance
for being able to expand before the non-commercial dial
is completely clogged and there's no more movement allowable.
And we're reaching that point,
and they're putting their final stake in
for more territory.
But what I've noticed with a lot of NPR stations,
and I guess this is on an individual decision level,
a lot of them broadcast in mono
because the signal goes further in mono,
especially during the news programs.
Really? Yeah, you notice the little light goes out
just when All Things Considered comes on,
and you blanket a larger region when you do that.
Yeah, FM stations come in twice as far in mono as they do in stereo.
That's interesting. It is.
It makes sense that during a spoken word program,
you take out the mono, you take out the stereo.
But you're assuming that what the DJ says
is more important than the music.
You want the music to reach all those people, too.
Speaking of music, we're going to play a 2-minute song here,
then we're going to go right back to the phones.
212-279-3400. There is an open line there.
Somebody fell asleep and dropped the phone.
We're going to talk a little bit more about radio.
We have about 20 minutes or so.
Elevator's going up!
In the gleaming corridor of the 51st floor
The money can be made if you really want some more
Executive decision, a clinic of precision
Jumping from the windows filled with indecision
I can't get a vibe from the advertising world
Treat me nice, party girl
Go catch live where there isn't any
So freeze man, freeze
It's the pause that refreshes in the corridors of power
When tough men need a top-off long before they have to yell
These snakeskin suits and their alligator boots
You don't need a lung that you can take into the fence
I can't get a vibe from the advertising world
Treat me nice, party girl
Go catch live where there isn't any
So freeze man, freeze
Coca-Cola advertising and cocaine
Strolling down the broadway in the rain
Neon light sign says it
I read it in the paper, they're crazy
Yeah, suit your life, maybe so
In the White House, I know
All over Berlin, they do it for years
I'm in Manhattan
Coming through the door is a snub-nosed 44
The barrel can't snort, it can spatter on the floor
Your eyeballs feel like nimbos and your tongue feels like a fish
You're leaping from the window saying, don't give it up
Coca-Cola advertising and cocaine
Treat me nice, party girl
Go catch live where there isn't any
So freeze man, freeze
It's the dance
And a bit of what we're talking about here today on WBAI
We're talking about non-commercial radio
I guess if you want to title this program
It could be the commercialization of non-commercial radio
What do you think?
Yeah, it's been happening for a while
We're here with Ken Williams, the...
Ken Friedman
I'm sorry, did I say that before?
Ken Williams is a Jamaican DJ on WLIB
Sorry, sorry to both of you actually
Ken Friedman is the general manager of WFMU
And we're talking about the situation with his radio station
Battling, I guess...
Could you call them a corporate giant?
I guess in the scheme of things you could
No, they're just big public radio stations
They're not corporate
Although, you know, they're behaving as though they were
Wishful thinking, I suppose
Now we're talking about other non-commercial radio stations
We like to hear what our listeners have to say
Our phone number is 212-279-3400
Won't be much good to call now since all the lines are tied up
But who knows, somebody might hang up
You can keep trying that way
So let's go to the phones
Good morning
Good morning
Go ahead
Listen, I want to make a comment
Turn down your radio, that's my comment
And then you can make yours
The radio station is in Bucharest
There was a lot of fighting around getting control of the radio station
To get the news out
Okay, sir, can you hear me?
Yeah
Okay, you're going to have to turn down your radio
Because we're hearing you about four times
Yeah, one second
Okay
That's one thing about having a delay system
Yeah, I think this caller has a good point
Okay, are you back yet?
Yeah, am I with you?
Okay, make your point
Now, what I don't understand, in this country
There's so many different progressive movements that are good
You have the movement around women's rights, civil rights
Around trade union rights, rights for immigrants
Why haven't these organizations gotten together
To own radio stations to get out the truth to the American people
So we can have a decent society here
That could be a tremendously powerful force
You have about 20 million organized workers in this country
You pay dues
You have due-paying members to organizations like NOW, ACLU, Madre
You know, I think that would be a beautiful idea
Yeah, it would, it would really offset the other organizations
That are organized, that are grabbing up radio frequencies all over the country
Well, I think that's comparable to the religious broadcasters
Because they're always talking about the same thing
But are you proposing a station that would be run by a particular group
That would pretty much preach that doctrine all the time?
Well, the doctrine it would preach would be, you know, progressive
You know, what people in this country need
They need housing, we need to keep our noses out of Central America
We need to raise the minimum wage
I mean, we're lucky to have some stations that address that
The question is, why aren't these organizations that have been around for a long time
Why hasn't it never dawned on them that they should get on the airwaves
That they should own radio stations?
Well, a lot of them have
A lot of the community radio stations in the United States
Have come on the air in the last 10 or 20 years
Well, you have to understand one thing
Owning a radio station, operating a radio station
It costs a lot of money
It's hard
You've got to either sell commercials or have fundraisers
And if you're not in a major city, it's going to be very hard
AFL-CIO, they've got bucks
I mean, why haven't they managed to do that?
I mean, these unions today are being battered from the left and from the right
I mean, they're really in bad shape
If they want to increase their membership
If they want to get the message out how important unionism is
It would help them a lot if they had a couple of radio stations
There is a station in California that's owned by a union
All right, I live in New York, right?
I mean, besides WBAI, this whole metropolitan area
I don't get much
I mean, this is what upsets me
Because there are a lot of good people and a lot of good organizations out there
Yeah, there should be more
Well, you know, I think in the future
You're going to see a proliferation of other audio frequencies
And other radio stations through cable and through satellites
I think there are going to be more audio channels available in the future
So, I mean, right now there's no more frequencies available
On the AM or FM band
Especially in New York
Yeah, anywhere within 100 miles of any major city in the United States
There's no more room
But I think in the next decade
You're going to see more radio stations popping up in other ways
Well, I hope they do
Because, you know, the American people need to be educated
And that's a very powerful tool
I mean, most Americans were 100% behind the invasion of Panama
While the rest of the world thought it was a horrible thing
I mean, because we got one, you know, type of news over here
While people in the rest of the world
You know, they get an alternative
I mean, there's left-wing parties, right-wing parties
And, you know, they get their points across
Here, everything that we hear is basically
What the administration wants to feed us
Yeah, I agree
The airwaves are getting less and less diverse all the time
That's why I'm saying
If some of these progressive organizations could pool their resources
It would be a very good thing
And they can get something started
Well, it's a good idea
Hopefully we'll see more of this in the future
But keep listening
You might hear some of it
When people decide that musical jukeboxes are a bit too much
Too repetitious
We'll see some more stations with ideas
Thanks so much for calling, sir
279-3400 is our phone number
Good morning
Good bye
Uh-huh
Okay
He waited half an hour to say...
I've got to give him credit for waiting half an hour just to say good bye
That's really good
Good morning
Good morning
Okay, that's better
What's your comment?
Uh...
Well, in terms of public radio, public television being commercial
You were commenting earlier about the...
Like, for instance, Channel 13
It used to be you'd see a little message going across
Brought to you by mobile
Very quick
Now you see something like
Brought to you by mobile
Who brings you this and that and this
And there's a picture of it
And it's... I'm wondering, you know
They're commercials
Yeah, it's basically...
It is a commercial
Well, I mean...
It's definitely a commercial
I mean, the only thing different between profit
Something that is for profit
And that something is non-profit
Is, I guess, that for non-profit, supposedly
No one's supposed to be making any profit
Of course, you know, people make salaries
It's just a very gray area
When it comes to profit, non-profit
It's just, you know
One's not paying any taxes
The other one supposedly is paying taxes
If they make a profit, you know
But it's definitely...
Obviously, there's a great difference in the programming
It's a different...
The people do have different interests
Than straight commercial broadcasters
But it's still...
I don't know, I don't think there is a very...
No, not that much difference
What?
Which I don't think there is very much difference
Between non-commercial radio and commercial radio
There are a few stations here and there
On the non-commercial dial that are different
BAI, I think
FMU, USB, PKN
The other stations
But I think most non-commercial radio stations
The larger public radio stations
In many ways are very similar
To the commercial stations
They choose a format
They choose one approach
They stick to that approach
They try to be very, very predictable
And they keep their studios very clean
That's nice
I've never seen your studio
I'm a new listener to BAI
I am, you know, not originally...
How long has this been?
I've been in New York about 8 years
Well, we've just celebrated our 30th anniversary
I see
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Is it 30 years old?
30 years old?
I didn't know that
I thought it was older than that
I recently started listening to the station
And...
I'm pretty much what you would call
An orthodox Jew
I disagree with a lot of the things
The Palestinian issue
The stance that the station takes
But at the same time
For instance, today
I think it was today
I heard a program about UFOs
Was that today?
I wasn't listening, so I don't know
You had a program
Basically had a doctor
A professor come on and explain
How the myth of UFOs is
He really showed how it's possible
Through experiments that he did
For instance, in a small town
Where they faked a UFO
And they got the whole people to believe it
And the local press
And then the national press
Came in and believed this UFO report
And how people said that they saw it too
From all over the area
And they proved how it could be such a thing
With so many testimonies
And this and that
I think that UFOs
As far as being from
There are UFOs
That are unidentified flying objects
But as far as being from outer space
That it just may be a big scam
In terms of people looking for attention
Or whatever
I thought it was
You hear so much about the other
Everybody
The point was
Everybody is using UFOs
Why?
Whether they believe it or not
They're using it for profit
Sure, to sell newspapers
A radio station or a television station
He may not believe in UFOs
But he's going to
He's going to
Tell everybody that
It's true
So he can get some good ratings
We don't do things in the conventional way here
A lot of times
We present programs in ways
That don't sell newspapers
That don't get ratings
We do it to do good radio
And a lot of times
It might alienate people
It might make things controversial
What it does in the long run
Is present new ideas
New ways of looking at things
We're going to go to another call
Thanks very much for calling, sir
Our number is 279-3400
Let's try to rip through these calls
In the minutes we have left
Good morning
Good morning
I really had no idea
That commercial radio could be so vicious
And some of them so racist, really
Commercial or non-commercial?
Non-commercial, I meant to say
I wanted to ask you
WNYC AM
They have advanced their output
To 10,000 watts
Well, they just moved their frequency
From A30 to A20
Yeah, and they're going to be
Stepping on a lot of feet
How's that going to go about?
Well, I imagine that's why they moved
I don't know if they'll be
Stepping on anybody at A20
If I'm wrong, somebody let me know that
Well, theoretically
The FCC would not have approved it
If they were stepping on a lot of people's feet
I thought that it was still testing
Is that what they're doing now?
See if they're overlapping right now?
They might be testing
No, overlap is determined on paper
Before you even do it
Yeah, that wouldn't be why
They were testing in any event
But I do think they're going to be
Doing something in the next couple of months
That will expand their range
However, I think that's a good idea
I think national public radio on AM
Is something that isn't being done
A lot of people with just AM radio
Should be able to get NPR
Why do we need more national public radio?
Well, not just NPR, though
I mean, there should be other stations on
What did he say?
Part of what drives me crazy
Is that there's this attitude
In national public radio
That if there's an acre in the United States
That isn't served primarily by
Meaning if it isn't served
In the primary area of an NPR station
Then that's a problem
And that's why WSHU, I feel
Has the audacity to try to set up
Three new NPR stations on Long Island
I'd like to know
Is there anybody out there
That doesn't get NPR
That can't get national public radio?
I don't think so
I think they're pretty well coded
The whole place by now
But you know what's interesting?
There's this attitude that
The entire country has to have NPR
Yet if there's ever a station
The entire country doesn't get CBS
Well, yeah, if there's ever a small station
That's the only station like it in the country
You know, those are the stations that have problems
What's interesting is
The caller brought up an interesting point
With AM national public radio
I happened to be in Wisconsin a few weeks ago
And they have a few AM NPR stations there
And I was listening to it
I wasn't aware that I was listening
To national public radio
And I thought I was listening to
ABC News or something
And I said to myself
Wow, this sounds so different
And the only reason it sounded different
Was because it was AM instead of FM
And the voices didn't sound as crisp and as clean
And I said to myself
Boy, I wonder
Is that the only difference?
The fact that NPR sounds crisp and clean
Is that why more people think it's better?
I mean, it's got to be more than that
But still, it made me think for a minute there
Thanks very much for calling
279-3400, good morning
Is anyone there?
Ah, we have another caller that fell asleep
We get a lot of those this time of night
Anyone there?
3, 2, 1
Okay, good morning
Oh, that was my fault
I turned off the wrong dial
Oh boy, I'm sorry
Whoever I just called
Said was asleep
They weren't asleep probably
And I just hung up on them
You can call back
279-3400, good morning
Well, I apologize for taking that caller's place
Oh well, there's nothing you can do
I was...
Some other caller was talking about college formats and such
And I don't have any special equipment on my house
So I can't even pick up the stations he was talking about
But the one college station I do listen to
And quite frequently is WKCR
Uh-huh, yeah, I listen to KCR a lot
Yeah, Columbia University Radio
And I think that's the ideal format
Which I don't really know how it works
But it seems to be
That it's run out of their American music department
And Phil Schaap is the director of it
And he seems to have a good bit of the airtime
But he kind of rules it benignly
And they organize lots of festivals
And he apparently has quite a bit of lineage in his field
His father was the translator of Le Hot Jazz
The first translator
Yeah, KCR is a good station
KCR is a good station
But they're 50,000 watts, you know
And I don't know
That's a lot for a college station
But, I don't know
No more power to them
But enough power as it is
Thanks for calling
We want to get some more calls
Before we run out of time
Good morning
Oh, okay, that made it easy
Good morning
Hi, this is BAI
That's what it is, go ahead
Hi, my name is Owen Siegel
And I'm events coordinator
At the Cooperative Gallery
Located in Williamsburg in Brooklyn
Okay
And we would love to have
An info fundraising night
For WFMU sometime in April
Okay, well I suggest
You get a hold of WFMU then
We're going to give out
The address and phone number again
And
Can you give out
Ken Freeman's number?
Yeah, my office number is
201-678-8264
And I know
Yeah, call me
I don't know if it's possible
But, you know
Because we're doing our fundraiser
Starting in about 10 days
But give me a call
At the station tomorrow
All these stations could use
People like you, that's for sure
Okay
Thanks for your interest
279, well I'm not going to
Give out the phone number anymore
Good morning
Is anyone there?
Hi
Go ahead
I just want to say that
I've been a WFMU listener
On and off since about 1967
Wow
And I live in Brooklyn
And I've heard many great programs
On FMU starting from
Vince Skelza
And people that you have on now
Like The Immigrant
And other great programmers
And I think that there's not enough
True alternative radio on the air
Like BAI and FMU
And I really think that people
Should listen to your station
And get behind you
And keep you on the air
Well thanks
I hope people do too
Okay, thanks for sharing that with us
Yeah, FMU's frequency again
Is 91.1 FM
And the audio line is back up
It was down for a few days there
But to find FMU on the dial
You can always call
201-644-2339
Anywhere in the world
Anywhere in the world
And you'll hear whatever we're playing
Good morning
Hello
Yeah
Maybe my question is something different
But I happen to subscribe myself
The same day that the Buddhist
Spiritual teacher from Tibet
Came to your station
Now, I would like to know whether
Whether they got to some other station
Or was only to your station that came
Because that sounds to me a privilege
Something very important, you know
I'll let you have that one, Ken
That's going to be our last call
I think that's directed to BAI
I don't think he's talking about FMU
Oh, he wasn't
Do you have a Buddhist leader
Who recently came for an interview to BAI?
Well, you know, I don't
I deliberately don't follow
The internal politics here
Because
This guy heard a program
I don't know anything about that program, sir
See, BAI is such a place that
We could have literally
A hundred programs in a day
And there's no way that
One person on the air knows
Everything that goes on
Even on their own program
Even on my own program, yeah
Tell me about it
But I suggest that that person
Give a call to Andrew Phillips
Our program director
He knows everything
He certainly does
It's his job
And that's pretty much
Going to do it for us
And it's just about one o'clock
Bob Fass is breathing down my neck
And we're ready to call the night
Five extra minutes
Five extra minutes?
Oh, great
You're a god
Thank you, Bob
Well, Bob's got a really great show
So folks, for the extra five minutes
Make sure you stay up for Bob
And I really want to thank BAI
For helping FMU out with this
And PKN too
And USB
Community radio, you know
That's what it is
Yeah, it's really driving
A lot of stations together
And it's driving a lot of people together
At FMU
FMU's either going to become
Much stronger
And we're going to make it
Into the 21st century
Or we're going to be wiped out
I think we're going to make it
It's going to be tough
And it's going to take a long time
Well, you guys have had
A lot of hurdles in the past
But you've always done it somehow
Yeah, I think we're going to do it
It's definitely snowballing
Things are looking up
Well, let's give out that address
One more time in the phone number
Yeah, the address at FMU is
WFMU Uppsala College
East Orange, New Jersey
07019
And boy, I'm saying that
Three seconds before one o'clock
So I suppose I should do
A WBAI ID
Go ahead
This is WBAI New York City
That's something you've always
Wanted to do, isn't it?
Yeah
I give out BAI T-shirts
And NYC coffee mugs
On my FMU marathon shows
Well, that's just a special part
Of the world we're in
And the marathon phone number
At FMU, which we'll be
Taking pledges on
Is 201-266-7911
We'll be starting a week
From Monday
And running for...
And if you have any questions
About FMU or anything
You can always call
The office number at FMU
Which is 201-678-8264
Okay, and to give out
The information about
Those other stations, too
WUSB is trying to raise funds
For its transmitter move
To increase its signal coverage
And hopefully keep its listeners
From being taken over
By other entities
And they're having a marathon
From April 5th through April 14th
They're at 90.1 FM
And you can pretty much
Get them in Suffolk County
And parts of Connecticut and Nassau
And their phone number
Is 516-632-6498
And you can write to them
At WUSB, Stony Brook,
New York, 11790
And WPKN, University of Bridgeport
Bridgeport, Connecticut
Their phone number is
203-576-4895
Another station trying to be
A community station
And keep the non-commercial
Corporate equivalent, I guess
The giants at bay
A little longer
And just keep some
Original sounds coming
So hopefully listeners
Will support all these stations
As well as WBAI, of course
And if you haven't subscribed
To WBAI yet
Of course we urge you to do so
P.O. Box 12345
Church Street Station, New York
10249
Remember, we've all got to
Stick together on these things
Yeah, prevent the gentrification
Of the airwaves
That's a good slogan
That would make a good bumper sticker
Yeah
We could market that
Yeah, here we've been looking
For a slogan for two months
And maybe we just found it
Eighteen to twenty-four year olds
I think would go for that
It's just like gentrification
It's just that anything that's
The slightest bit weird or unusual
Has to fight for its life
So if you're the slightest bit weird or unusual
Help us fight for our lives
By supporting non-commercial radio
Community radio, wherever you go
And Ken, I want to thank you for coming by
Thank you for having me
Hope it works out
You'll keep us updated
Yeah, and thank you WBAI
For being there
Three fingers means what?
It means I gave it five
You've only taken two
Well, uh
You want to take a couple more calls?
I'll have to go back into delay
If I take another one
Oh, okay, forget it, no more calls
I mean, I can take a call
Without going into delay, I suppose
And see what happens
Let's try it
Good evening, good morning
Yeah, I was going to ask
One quick question
I see that college stations
Have an inherent talent pool, kind of
Now, BAI, they're kind of
It's people that are kind of
Like college students
Who don't attend college
Does the fact that BAI
Is in the middle of the dial
In prime real estate
Does that make a big, big difference?
Or, basically what I'm asking
How does it survive in a
I think the universities
Have an unfair advantage
And BAI is
It survives equally
If not better than they do
And I've got to hang up
Because I'm writing a paper
Okay, well, you do that
BAI is in the middle
Of the commercial dial
With 50,000 watts
In the middle of New York City
That's got to account for something
Yeah, BAI is non-commercial by choice
College stations usually
Have non-commercial licenses
But not all universities
Give college stations money
I think the caller was assuming
That all college stations
Are supported by the universities
And they're not
WPKN is not anymore
WFMU is not at all
And a lot of college stations
Rely heavily on community support
Just like WBAI does
All right, well, I think
That's pretty much
As much as we can say tonight
But I would like to have you back
Sometime in the near future
Especially after the marathon
After all these marathons
After the WUSB marathon
After the WFMU marathon
And maybe we can get some
WPKN down here, too
Yeah, I'll have to come back
And take stock
See what the state
Of non-commercial radio is
I just hope BAI listeners
Check out FMU
If they haven't heard it yet
91.1 FM
And check out other stations, too
And get back to us
Let us know what's out there
And what's horrible
And what's good
Maybe we can all learn
Something from it
All right?
I'm Bob Fosse
And I'll be back again
In two weeks
Stay tuned for Bob Fosse
And forgive me
I had to play this song
I played it last time
But it's just
Oh, it's just so perfect
You know
Elvis Costello Radio Radio
Good night, everybody
Hiding a receiver
When the switch broke
Cause it's old
They're saying
There's no salvation
Radio is
Waiting on the nation
They say you better listen
To the voice of reason
But they don't give you
any choice
Cause they think
That it's treason
So you had better do
What you were told
You better listen
You better listen
to the radio
I wanna fight the hand
that feeds me
I wanna fight that hand
so badly
I wanna make them wish
they'd never seen me
Some of my friends
sit around every evening
And they worry
about the times ahead
And the bus is overwhelmed
by indifference
and the promise
of an early bed
You either shut up
or get cut out
They don't wanna hear about it
It's only inches
on the reel-to-reel
And the radio
is in the hands
of such a lot of fools
trying to anesthetize
the way that you feel
Radio is
the sound of salvation
Radio is
waiting on the nation
They say you better listen
to the vice of reason
But they don't give you
any choice
Cause they think
that it's treason
So you had better do
what you were told
You better listen
to the radio
What if I'm radio
Now the last of radio
What if I'm radio
Radio, radio
Radio, radio
Radio, radio
Oh, I'm radio
Anything I do
and the radio
It's a sign-on of a station called Radio Freedom that I'm playing, I thought that was kind
of appropriate for the previous discussion, but I'm bursting with things to talk about
this morning, so maybe I'll just fade it down for a little bit.
The squat got burnt down today, I guess you probably heard about that, we'll be talking
about that, and you know I'm working with the Living Theater doing a play about the
subject of homelessness, and I just had this tremendous, awful, catastrophic assault on
my brain today as I was leaving, running to get to the station, somebody waves to
me, this long, tall, skinny, really skinny kid in a beret, and he says, don't you recognize
me?
And I go up to him, and I see it's the kid who used to live two apartments away, and
you know, the landlord got greedy, now this kid is somebody who, he grew up under my window,
you know, he was like nine years old, playing ball in the street, and I was saying, oh God,
I could never sleep with those kids playing ball in the street under my window, and there
he is, like five or six years later, and he's homeless, and he's living, I don't know, in
some shelter in some borough outside, he tells me, don't you recognize me?
And he says, my God, he grew up under my nose, and now he's out there.
I don't know, and this is a very serious problem, I hope Mayor Dinkins will do something about
it beside what Pete Hamill said he was doing the other night, Pete Hamill talking to, my
God, Ed Koch, where did they drag him in from, I guess if they can bring back Richard Nixon,
Ed Koch can also be a public figure, but I thought we were done with him, but no, there
he was on my TV set, and what he was doing was saying, well, weren't you glad when it
was more exciting, I mean, when it wasn't so boring?
And the other, there was Joyce Pernick from the Times, and she was sort of trying to be
polite, but she was a little exasperated, and she was saying, well, you know, New York
had enough of you, enough of you, enough of you, and he didn't really get it, you know,
and it was Pete Hamill saying, oh, it's true, the city is kind of, feels like it's sedated
now under Dinkins, you know, I don't mean to say exactly that I want to be sedated,
so I don't have to, like, you know, clutch my, the sole of my throat, you know, so many
times during the day in anguish at what's happening to human beings who are in our city.
Oh, I ought to, like, say something about this, too, because I think this is really
a big part of it, this kid happens to be Afro-American, also, like many Afro-Americans,
he's also European, you know, how it is, and the kid he grew up with who's still living
in the apartment on the street, also, I knew since he was nine, happens to be white, and
he's still there, I don't know, I think that's, that's really a big part of it, you know.
Hi, you're on the radio.
Hi.
Yeah, how, John, can you tell us something about the squat that burned down?
Yeah, I will, actually, but I just wanted to give you a really fast update on something
that just happened a few hours ago on the Lower East Side. There was another of a continuing
series of attacks on people by skinheads in the Lower East Side a few hours ago, and in
this case, if my information is correct, they killed someone, and...