The Park Slope United Methodist Church is inviting you to the Central American Festival on Saturday, March 31st at 7.30 p.m., 6th Avenue at 8th Street in Brooklyn.
The Central American Festival with a Central American Festival with a Central American Festival with a Central American Festival with a focus on challenging U.S. policy in El Salvador and Nicaragua.
Featured speakers iniblick's
And now, a message from Earth Day.
Which do you prefer?
Or, how about, or, and what of?
Or, if you answer, you could whine like a dog.
Or dial 673-3030.
673-3030. Yes, 673-3030 is your direct line to Earth Day 1990's New York office.
On April 22nd, Earth Day will launch the Decade of the Environment.
With events planned for all five boroughs, we need your help.
Whatever your talents, whether you can organize, mobilize, or get things done.
Help with mailings, phone banks, data entry, transport.
You can make a contribution, even if it's money.
Our offices open seven days a week.
So call 673-3030 at 673-3030.
And, of course, bring your friend.
Just because you're a New Yorker doesn't mean you can whine that well.
This is a public service announcement of WBAI on behalf of Earth Day 1990, a non-profit organization.
Did the film Gory raise questions in your mind?
What did Frederick Douglass really have to do with the 54th Massachusetts?
The real 54th Massachusetts didn't have the Harlem Boys Choir to accompany them.
What music did they hear?
What were the women doing while all this was happening?
Who were the contraband?
And how did they get that name?
And who were those guys in the puffy red pants?
Late Wednesday night, early Thursday morning, March 22nd, from 3.30 to 6 a.m., Cosmic Debris presents
A Radio Companion to Glory
with Civil War enthusiast Larry Butler, who portrays members of black regiments in Civil War reenactments.
That's 3.30 a.m., Thursday, March 22nd, only on listener-sponsored Pacifica Radio, WBAI, in New York.
Justice William O. Douglas was a man whose life screamed out for dramatic interpretation.
Douglas Scott has now put William O. Douglas on the stage, and one of our finest actors, Len Carrioux, is starring as Douglas in Mountain.
WBAI-ers will have an opportunity to see Mountain at a special WBAI preview performance on Thursday night, March 22nd, if you pledge $40 for a pair of tickets.
Following the performance, there will be an open forum on the Douglas legacy, with playwright Scott, joined by Norman Siegel of the New York Civil Liberties Union, and Edith Tiger of the Emergency Civil Liberties Committee.
Call WBAI during business hours, 279-0707, for information about attending the WBAI performance of Mountain, celebrating the life of Justice William O. Douglas.
The night is Thursday, March 22nd, at the Lucille Lortel Theatre.
Be a part of this theatre adventure.
Chair up my brothers, chair up my sisters, chair up my mama to Lord, chair up my sister.
I know it won't be long, that change has got to come.
Bob Marley, Sunday, May 27th, all day, right here on your listener-sponsored non-commercial radio in New York, WBAI, located at 99.5 FM on your dial.
Watch out.
So long, if we unite then we will be free.
So strong, so strong, I want you to cheer up my brother, my sister.
And in case you haven't guessed it by now, you're listening to WBAI, listener-supported radio in New York.
And gosh, we played a lot of promotions for things that are coming up.
There's just so many things that are happening on this radio station.
24 hours a day we've got all kinds of alternative educational entertainment programs.
I mean, we could play these promotions all night long and never repeat them.
It's the most incredible thing.
What other radio station gives you that?
But we don't just play the promotions, we play the programs.
But we do have a problem right now in the fact that the program normally scheduled for this time, women just want to have funds.
Well, it's not around.
We can't find it anywhere.
And that's kind of a clue when you hear all kinds of promotions going on.
It means that we're frantically looking for something usually.
And the program that was supposed to be produced by Laura Flanders apparently isn't going to be on tonight.
It doesn't look like we can find it anywhere.
And listening to Undercurrents earlier in the evening, Laura Flanders gave a report from East Berlin,
which means it's going to be kind of difficult for her to host this program here in New York.
So unless somebody figures something out with the time warp, we're going to be doing something else here on listener-supported WBAI Radio.
My name's Emanuel Goldstein.
I'm normally here alternate Thursday nights, but sometimes I pop in on Mondays as well.
And I got to thinking while we were frantically looking for those programs that aren't going to be on.
I was thinking about, well, Eastern Europe, because that's where Laura Flanders is.
She's in East Berlin.
And all the changes going on in Eastern Europe and where it's leading.
Reunification of Germany, pro-democracy, quote-unquote, in the Soviet Union, Romania, Hungary, etc., etc.
Where is it going to go?
I saw an article in the paper today in the Times about pollution.
And that's one thing that Eastern Europe certainly seems to have surpassed Western Europe in, is pollution.
Across a mountain range where East Germany, Czechoslovakia, and Poland meet lies the bitter fallout from industrial schemes conceived in the Kremlin four decades ago.
Barren plateaus stretch for miles, studded with the stumps and skeletons of pine trees.
Under the snow lie thousands of acres of poisoned ground, where for centuries thick forests had grown.
This is the heart of Europe, the sick heart of Europe, its people call it.
Below these mountains in a broad belt, from Leipzig in East Germany, to Krakow in southern Poland, and across northern Czechoslovakia, are the bulk of Eastern Europe's heavy industries.
Power plants stand beside them, spewing smoke heavily with sulfur and soot, as they drive steel and chemical works and heat homes.
In the rush to compete with the West, the three countries have stoked these plants with millions of tons of lignite, a geologically younger coal that is dirty, cheap, and abundant here.
Just 10% of the coal mined and burned in the United States is lignite, to give you an idea.
The hunt for cheap energy has come back to haunt the planters.
The brown coal smoke and other noxious emissions have wreaked havoc on buildings, penetrated people's lungs, and poured acid rain over farmlands and forests.
As post-communist Eastern Europe is taking stock of the impact of callous industrial rampage,
at least a dozen cities in this grime belt are vying for the title of being Europe's most polluted place.
Frantisek Urban, director of nature conservation in Czechoslovakia's eight-week-old Ministry of Environment, says,
basically, we are seeing an ecological catastrophe.
While acid rain damage to forests from car and industrial exhausts all over Western Europe has been reported for more than a decade,
forestry experts meeting in Prague last week said no other place had such an extent of forest deaths in Central Europe's industrial belt.
They cited a stretch of some 350 miles, where more than 300,000 acres of forest had disappeared,
and surviving trees were so sick their lifespan would be short.
With prevailing winds blowing east, Czechs blame East Germans for half their pollution,
and Poles blame both neighbors for as much.
Poland's fallout has also felt in the Ukraine and in Sweden.
A thick brown haze hung over much of North Czechoslovakia,
something people described as normal for eight months of the year.
It took on the sting of tear gas between Usti and Shumatov,
on the edge of the vast brown coal basin of northern Bohemia.
The basin maintains ten power plants.
In just the last few years, Czechs said the country had spent a fortune on Soviet desulfurization scrubbers.
We were promised 80% efficiency, but they are continuously breaking down.
Mr. Urban in Prague had lamented,
when they work, they clean only 30%.
They have crashed by them.
Now they have CUTS!
So you can see that Lebensel in London used in Manchester,
which witnessed an hour and Maturon came in due to the biggest
class, were нашей,
and the Tank beliefs,
khazan and the day-organization of the же
it's not very good news is it the things that are going on and it's not just in eastern europe
it's in this country very much in this country it's over antarctica it's almost everywhere you
can imagine and if we've been exploring outer space a little bit more i'm sure it would be there
too somehow well in the remainder of time that we have which at this point is 45 minutes i'd like
to hear from people as far as maybe some of the more positive changes going on in eastern europe
but also this matter of pollution because it's something that that's going to affect everybody
for the rest of our lives and future generations for lives still to come
and what's happening in eastern europe is something that folks in the united states can
learn an awful lot from both on the political front on the environmental front
on just about every front you can think of this is emmanuel goldstein the program has no name
but we're on till 11 o'clock our phone number is 279-3400 and uh since laura flanders is in eastern
europe we're going to talk about eastern europe it's kind of an appropriate thing to do uh
your thoughts your feelings on the changes to come the changes that have come what could have been
what will never be 279-3400 that's our telephone number
well it's 17 minutes after 10 o'clock and uh we're going to go right over to the telephones
uh we have about two open lines 279-3400 good evening yeah hi how you doing yeah i'm getting
sick of all this environmental whining that's going on environmental whining or what would you suggest
we do well i bet you you'd suggest us moving to teepees uh well maybe in your case it would be a good
idea but uh what what what do you expect us to do well i don't see any problems you don't see any
problems where do you live let me ask you to ask when do you live you live in the bronx you live in
the bronx and you don't see any problems now and having a good time uh-huh what's your guide dog's
name good morning yeah uh well i'm talking in the air i'm sorry did i say good morning i usually do a
late night show good evening yeah go ahead uh am i on now or you're well you're on in seven seconds
we're on delay but you're on yes okay go ahead yeah uh i wanted to to mention some things around
eastern europe and uh the environment this uh this phony communism in the east sounds exactly like
bopal and uh uh union carbide and all the outrageous things they do here and it and i think it's fine that
this pretense of these uh regimes being any different than in the west is falling down and uh
um i wanted to mention a program that's going on uh wednesday night at revolution books speaking to
some of this is particularly in wake of what's happened in nicaragua there's going to be a discussion
there at um on the nicaraguan elections and uh developments in the world off of that and where
to go from here okay well let's let's let's stick over to eastern europe at this point since that's
where most of the changes seem to be taking place right now let's look at the immediate problem at hand
uh where we have uh villages that are practically unlivable now because of uh the right the inexcusable
pollution that's been going on where do we go from here does uh do we pour money into uh to fix a
situation do we uh do we just tell them to fix it or what well i think it's the same the same
motivation that's caused the western governments to destroy uh uh their portion of the planet which
is is the pursuit of profit uh well that's what the kremlin was doing in eastern europe and the
only difference is is that it hadn't been known to people outside of the region and i think that uh
i think it's excellent that people are learning about these outrageous crimes that have that have
been uh sort of quietly committed for decades and uh the same time like i was saying i don't think uh
when you said that thing about pouring money in uh i don't think the u.s government and the u.s
corporations are are going to solve the problem that's not what they're they're about doing they're
uh they're part of the problem and um i think another example i don't know if you're going to get
into it and in your discussion is poland and the whole uh the the situation there where there's a
u.s imposed austerity program on the on the people of poland that's just an incredible nightmare uh this
is exactly the opposite of what the people of poland need at this point uh coming off of all the the
nightmare they've just been through what uh the nightmare of uh of the government they've yeah i mean
it's uh uh now the west the imf and all these others are going in there and are imposing this
incredible uh clamp down on wages working conditions and and uh so forth and it's um
you know on the the question of the environment i'm sure is going to play into that too i don't i
can't imagine how it's going to benefit the environment either on this
so what what do you see as the uh as the the short-term answer anyway well i i don't see a
short-term answer i see that revolution or for real revolution in those countries and in the ones in
the west is what's going to be required and uh i think that a lot of people were were hoping that's
what had occurred in eastern europe and i think that these illusions are now being you know rather
clear for people to see and we need to take stock of uh you know uh you know distinguishing uh the
sham from the real well you know if there's if there's one common denominator i keep seeing and
this seems to be the case after any any movement but particularly here it's disillusionment there's
this disillusionment in east berlin the people that started the uh the pro-democracy movement feel
left out now in romania there's certainly a disillusionment they feel that they haven't really
accomplished anything uh and it's also in in many other of the eastern countries as well i think
that that's actually similar to the type of thing that happened in iran where uh people rose up against
the shah but that the the new government is not uh what the people need i mean they haven't had a
thoroughgoing revolution in romania or the other countries yet in fact uh a lot of the the uh you know
the ruling elite is still there they're just regrouped to uh uh uh carry on in a new form
and uh romania is a very sharp example of that uh east east germany is as well and uh i think that
points out the need for for again a a real revolution and um for example going back for going back to the
nineteen uh 1960s mao and others that can had exposed that these governments in eastern europe as being
uh state capitalist and now they're just going switching over to western form capitalism but
for the for the majority of people in these countries it's like just another for a different
poison but uh still poison one final question uh how do you feel about the reunification of
west germany and east germany well i think that uh there's already enough uh warmongering superpowers
in the world we don't need another one and uh i can't imagine how germany uh reunified could be
worse than the united states of the soviets but there's going to be another major superpower potentially
and that i don't see how that benefits the people of germany or any other country to to see that um that
develop do you think they should be aligned with nato no i don't think nato should even exist i mean
it's a war block it's uh you know it's a it's a it's an alliance that exists to uh further imperialist
domination um and if the east east germany switches from uh the soviet war block uh the warsaw pact to
the the western uh blocks uh war block that's certainly no benefit to the people of the world
which need to see these war blocks uh destroyed in the interest uh and you were talking about the
environment and there's many other reasons that this the issue of nuclear warfare and needs to be
you know uh you know we need to uh make revolution and prevent world war and and not try to figure out
some way to regroup these various uh war machines well don't you get the feeling that uh a lot of
people are trying to figure out how to do just that how to uh most definitely this is a excellent time
to live in this globe you know in terms of people are trying to sort out a lot of questions and um
i think that the 90s are going to be a really exciting period for us all to be living in
okay thanks very much for calling okay bye-bye 279-3400 talking about eastern europe talking about
change good evening you'll have to speak english i mean let's let's be fair let's be fair to the
masses of americans here anyone there all right all right all right good morning good evening hi hi
hi i just thought i'd mention that it it seems a bit odd the timing uh of the discussion uh about
the environmental problems in eastern europe and uh i should add china uh uh it's not anything new and
it's something that the people in the western media at least i'm sure have known about for quite some
time i know somebody who's working on a fish stocking program uh between russia and china
uh uh and you know you don't hear him talking about the duracell battery plants up in canada on
the alcan highway where it looks about the same so basically you're saying the same problems exist
in the west as in the east well no i'm just saying that the problems in the east uh uh the west wasn't
willing to criticize the east uh for their environmental problems both on the left and the right
for different reasons i think uh the the right didn't want to uh if you will in quotes uh uh make
a lot of noise about the pollution in the east because we have the same problem here and so that
uh raises a finger to our industrial problems and the left to some degree uh uh sat on its hands
because of its view of those uh country social policies and and so on and so forth and i guess
what i'm saying is is that politically the environment got the squeeze in the middle and
now that it's starting to become fashionable again to speak about the environment uh uh suddenly
everybody's jumping on the bandwagon while i think uh uh segments and uh in the in the middle and on the
right are possibly attempting to use it to their uh to their benefit or or to make the east look bad if
you will well you know you raise a very good point it it has become fashionable that's exactly the
war it's become fashionable to speak about the environment again and uh you know a lot of
people are using this to sort of uh uh push their own personal careers or you know push push corporate
careers or whatever uh it's um it's sad that we have to wait until we practically have uh the environment
at its at its uh at its last breath before we start saying hey you know it's time uh time we started
taking an interest in the environment the time was 20 years ago well absolutely the clean air act now
uh the new i haven't read it but the new one is uh my understanding is uh is a a shadow of what it
started out to be and and uh you know i guess the last environmental movement uh uh meant we got uh
a ph balance shampoo for a while uh uh and and ads that and television ads that were environmentally conscious but
uh um i don't know i just i guess i would raise the the uh cautionary sign that uh sort of beware of uh
uh of uh uh uh uh secondary and ulterior motives uh i think the environmental movement last time
around there are a lot of very dedicated uh people involved in the movement and a lot of people got on
it and uh and uh oh this is the the thing to be interested in and then sort of left it by the wayside
just like saving gasoline and and uh uh uh small cars and and everything else that all went by the wayside
uh huh i'll tell you what worries me is the fact that uh that new generations of people are going
to uh come into being and they're not going to know anything about the days when you used to be
able to drink water out of streams when the days when you used to be able to see the stars from the
ground and they're just going to assume that that was all folklore and i'm talking you know i'm
talking a few generations ahead not that many though like i mean i'm not that old i'm i guess i'm i'm 34 and
i can remember when i would
ones like they they have uh at home and you know i i mean it just uh uh uh population density has
increased in a lot of those places and and uh uh it's with there's you've got them they're just
mauling the whole thing if you will uh i i don't know mauling yeah that's a good word if the mauling
well there's a i think there's a book called the mauling of america uh but i i guess what i'm
saying is is that with the issue in the east it's been there for a long time uh the communist countries
haven't been any better than we have in many cases worse although uh uh our industrial people don't
want to say oh look they're being bad because that would make you know then people would well what about
you and the left doesn't want to say anything bad about it because uh those are supposedly uh uh uh
uh uh uh socially progressive countries when in in many respects uh at least with regards to their
environment uh uh uh it's uh sort of been uh uh totally forsaken which today isn't considered
progressive because environmentalism is fashionable but anyway a good program uh even though uh even
though it's not the program that it's supposed to be no it certainly isn't the program it's supposed
to be and perhaps i should explain that again but uh first i want to thank you for calling and uh
wish you a good night okay thank you all right and i also want to encourage other people to call
our phone lines are wide open maybe the phones are broken i don't know but uh usually they're they're
lit up like a like a christmas tree or whatever you want to call it uh our number is 279-3400 and this
is kind of uh kind of a free form show that just suddenly materialized as things suddenly materialize
here at bai sometimes the program originally scheduled for this time um disappeared into a time warp of
some sort and uh will not be on uh tonight and it's half an hour after we were supposed to have
started so i can say quite definitely it won't be on tonight uh the um the host of this program is in
east berlin and uh uh the program was originally supposed to be about um uh women's and girls projects
and organizations that's what i'm reading from the folio here uh there were supposed to have been
guests including representatives of women's funds at national and local levels uh as well
as several grant recipients and donors well none of those people are here no no people involved in
that all at all and uh i don't feel qualified to speak on that subject but i do feel qualified to
speak on the subject of pollution and uh just messing up the environment and messing up civilization as a
whole i don't know why i feel qualified to talk about that but uh somehow i i think that's what
my generation is going to be uh associated with from uh from now to eternity so uh you're welcome to call
in with your uh comments about uh pollution eastern europe german reunification and just really anything
in particular i suppose 279-3400 is our telephone number area code 212 uh my name is emmanuel goldstein and
i'll be here until 11 o'clock at which time we'll be rebroadcasting the news good evening
it's your turn to speak first you're asking someone in the street where various places are
i'll prompt you start now excuse me please where's the main station
i don't know where the main station is
okay good morning good evening
okay good morning uh turn down your radio please hello yes go ahead you're on but your radio is on
too oh how you doing emmanuel okay how are you all right where are you calling from i'm calling from
the bronx okay yes what's up oh nothing much uh do you remember the uh of course i'm sure you heard about
the the uh chemical plant or a purported chemical plant in libya in libya yeah that's an interesting
story too yes well my question is sort of environmental also if you remember some years
back the uh plant another chemical plant in india is it bhopal india yeah bhopal was the name yes
from what i recollect from that accident that was uh what they would consider a minor accident it was a
a small leak and a small fire i don't know if anyone actually called it a minor accident that would
have not been exactly politically correct to say that but uh perhaps in the scheme of things it was
a minor compared to what could have happened i'm quoting from uh from from union carbide side they said
it was a a minor accident as far as uh the destruction of the physical plant is okay but nonetheless
thousands of people died around it and they you know supposedly it wasn't uh anything that they
were manufacturing that was that dangerous but as it turned out it killed thousands of people
uh i would have imagined if this plant in libya was manufacturing poison gas and storing it there
should be thousands of bodies laying around this plant for you know miles and miles and well now i i
heard a report today that uh while libya is claiming there was extensive damage aerial photographs
from satellites say that uh there really doesn't seem to have been much i also heard a report over
the weekend that uh president bush was planning to attack that i mean he's planning to attack little
things all over the all over the world but uh his latest conquest would have been the libyan
chemical plant he was planning on sending a missile over there just to destroy it
uh-huh oh missile it's it's incredible i don't know what what he's going to uh pinpoint next you
know there's a certain architecture he doesn't like in in in the soviet union somewhere he's going to
send a rocket over just to destroy that you know all these little targets you know panama and uh
and uh nicaragua and grenada you know that's what the reagan bush administration seems to be
targeting i don't know if they're planning on something bigger they're like working up to something
bigger i don't know yes that's uh that's been bothering me it seemed a telltale sign of this
was really a poisonous weapons plant there would have been thousands of bodies laying around and
the proof would have been there for the world to see you know people dropping dead left and right
you know towns hundreds of miles away but i haven't heard stories of that i'm sure they do have deaths
that you know people that were working within the physical facility itself but if uh if it was chemical
weapons of the sort for warfare there should be people you know 300 miles away dropping dead in
villages also if that was the case uh-huh and you know the other thing that gets me is the
the way we're hypocritical about this uh listening to undercurrents earlier this evening uh i would i
learned that that president bush twice when he was vice president and uh was asked to cast tie-breaking
votes in the senate uh both times cast them in favor of more chemical weapons so uh who was he to speak
about chemical weapons uh-huh i mean obviously he seems to like the idea of chemical weapons for us
probably as a deterrent to make us all safer well maybe maybe libya has the same feelings maybe they
don't feel too comfortable with uh us breathing down their necks and occasionally bombing them
yeah well they certainly would have uh caused to feel that way uh-huh i mean i'm not defending
chemical weapons i think uh i don't think there should be any chemical weapons anywhere i don't think
there should be many kinds of any weapons anywhere but that's something else okay man okay thanks for
calling 279-3400 is our phone number and folks just to make things even more exciting if someone has
details about that uh that propane railroad car sitting in queens that uh had to close i this was
incredible coming over here this evening i i just decided to walk through penn station because i had heard
that all trains all trains to uh to queens had been suspended both on the number seven line and
the entire li double r long island railroad had uh had stopped service so that they could turn this
this propane tank car that had fallen over and derailed in the sunny side yards uh so that they could turn it
over and it was uh it was incredible it was pandemonium there were there were hundreds thousands of
people wandering around in penn station saying where do we go what do we do how do we get there ride the
subway are you crazy that's what they were being told to do and uh tom yeah eric you have a late
breaking news story for us i don't know if i have a late breaking news story but i can tell you that i
was there in person you were there my way on my way here as a matter of fact what at the propane car
uh what they did is they closed the part of queensborough boulevard going approximately from
jackson avenue to skillman avenue which is a fairly big stretch it's a very big stretch yeah if you're
on the number seven train going from let's say oh queensborough plaza to 33rd street rawson where
laguardia community college is that's approximately oh that bridge is approximately like three quarters
of the distance between those two stations i mean that's a pretty big bridge so they closed that
and they were sort of gingerly letting traffic run across it but they closed it to all pedestrian
traffic except to uh except people who were part of fire department crews and stuff like that what
time are you there uh this was around approximately oh 7 30 quarter date that's about when i was there
i didn't see you uh actually no come to think when i was there a little bit earlier more like let's say
7 15 to 720 okay i was there closer to eight when they were about to close it all together huh and
they they they suspended all service on the subway over there and uh long island railroad nothing they
didn't want anything anywhere near there and you have to wonder what does that mean what does that
mean folks does that mean that if this propane car explodes in queens that that entire area is going
to be uh catastrophically affected now it was in the train yards correct this was in sunny side yard
it was right right on um on queen's boulevard you could see you could see the spotlights looking
down on it i didn't get out of my car to look i wasn't that crazy but uh you could tell exactly
where it was now if this had happened in a small town in texas i'm sure there would have been an
evacuation oh you always hear about those the reason why they didn't they probably didn't evacuated
eric is that that's largely an industrial neighborhood and they have the train yards in the middle of
where it happened so you had as they probably thought well there's this huge stretch where practically
nobody is we don't have to worry about that type of stuff but the whole problem is is that above that
bridge there's a ton of traffic there's a ton of traffic and that's probably why they stopped it
but uh when i was going when i was going across it at 7 15 they didn't stop any of the traffic at all
keep in mind that propane uh that propane car that that train car had been going through a
residential parts of queens as well before it could have happened there it could have happened anywhere
and we're facing these risks every day well i just wanted to give you a little bit of an idea as to
what was going on with that okay well thanks for dropping in and we're going to go back to the
phones 279-3400 is our telephone number good evening yes good evening i'd like to put uh women's
history month in the context of the environment okay um here you have this this mother earth
because uh it seems like life sprang forth from the uh womb of the uh ocean the vast oceans
and uh it seems with the onset of patriarchal society uh roughly i don't know two to four
thousand years ago where the tides was turned for matriarchal civilization and dominated by a very
aggressive male it seemed to coincide with the uh destruction of the earth gradually and it seems
like we're gonna suffer more from our water being polluted because once there's no more water no more
man uh-huh well so that's a good parallel i i like that but again i don't want to uh i don't want to
throw the blame you know just on on the male part of the human race because i think we're all to blame
you know i don't know you know men will be the first to take credit for all the uh advances and with
all advances become the blowback from it yeah but you know there's there's there's women too that uh
are at the forefront of this it's uh you know yeah women have been denied equality but i think a lot
of women once they get equality will behave equally therefore we're all just the same isn't that what
we're all saying we're all the same we're all equal so if we're stupid we're all equally stupid you
see what i'm saying i wouldn't i wouldn't um how many uh women on the uh board of um union
carbide well i don't follow those things but uh okay look at look at three people okay maggie
thatcher gene kirkpatrick sandra day o'connor and and and by the way folks have you ever seen all
three of them in the same room together i think that's kind of odd that you've never seen all three
of them together i think they're the same person but they are unlike the any of the women i seem to
know you know they seem like the aggressive uh western male mentality with the woman's head
screwed on top of it well i don't know what percentage of women are like that but what i'm
saying is i mean there are people like that and there are males that aren't aggressive so i think
we're i think we're making a mistake when we just judge a particular group in any any way and that
includes males females whatever i i wouldn't i don't i don't agree with that but um i don't know
i think women are more typified by the ones who are standing and you know in front of nuclear power
parents protesting you know the uh prolification of nuclear war you know and weapon weaponry the
people who are you know women who are more worried about their their family than you know
leading governments and well you know i think males are as worried too but perhaps they're victimized
in another way by being forced uh to uh to work in a particular uh circumstance and uh i don't know
you know i think when you when you get down to the basics we all pretty much have the same concerns we
just have to be able to address those people you know address the males and and say you know it's uh
it's stupid for you to have to uh defend this uh this polluted economy of ours this uh this way of
life yeah you see what i'm saying tragedy right you know i mean a lot of males yeah they will they
will defend that uh they will be a part of that but that's not i don't think that's inherent in the
male species i think that's something in society you know it seems like in evolution it seems like
mankind has developed you know in relation to how the earth you know is developing i can wonder what
kind of um evolutionary creature will come out of this wasteland of a world we're going to have in
the near future well i don't know but if it can't live in space it's not going to live very long i can
tell you that yeah all right thanks very much for calling all right two seven nine three four hundred
good evening yes good evening i wanted to mention that a woman on uh speaking over the phone on bai said
try to have a shorter work day you know so more people could be employed and i was thrilled by
that and i've even mentioned it on wabc uh to barry farber and he liked the idea in fact i'd like tom
whalen to get him the tapes of uh barry farber the tapes of uh the uncle sam and the swastika so he
knows more about the skullduggery of all these different undercover covert groups you know emmanuel
skullduggery yes and i mean i mean they are corrupting uh so much too you know in their own
uh you know subversive subterranean way that you know we can't cope with it all of a sudden uh galen
this german uh uh you know uh intelligence expert is brought uh if they're committing uh countless
crimes of uh death on uh on the populace you know maybe a hundred thousand people probably uh at least uh
uh he's brought the united states to work for the cia against uh the soviets uh in what we call the
cold war which now has uh you know changed but i want to also remind people that in eisenhower's
administration he uh set up a commission to study leisure and uh i would wonder where that ever went
you know it'd be interesting if uh there was some uh you know uh uh examination of of of their uh
findings and you know what they suggested i know more people go to museums than ever but i'm talking
about uh a better life which relates to what i first said now the other thing was that at one point
in america uh i don't know if it was in 1970 they started a school for the presidency and i'm even
wondering whatever happened to that you know what i mean the young people would yeah you know would
study i mean naturally they could all have been brainwashed i mean would hope that uh they're
getting some of the information from the pacifican stations you know and so forth but anyway and uh
one thing i would love um you know there's so much talk about all over the world and uh you know i've
been carrying on my own personal uh i won't call it a feud but an attempt at um correcting situations at
bai you know uh max meade mentioned to me last night that in a 1983 document uh of pacifica they
said that there shouldn't be any payola but that to mention the price of a book and the and the
publisher was perfectly all right if you did it as a factual statement so uh this is something that
must be understood that what i did was perfectly could you speak up you seem to be getting lower
can you speak up i'm trying to okay i'll say good night and thanks for listening okay right
thanks for calling oh boy okay well i don't know talking to him is like going a couple of stops too
far in an express train you know gotta figure out how to get back downtown okay let's uh let's get back
two seven nine three four hundred good evening i love hearing my voice but i'd rather hear yours
oh yes hello go ahead uh can you hear me yes i can hear you fine i think there's a radio going on
radio on um now the thing is yes what you say is absolutely true that of course both men and women
have the same human qualities and the possibilities to be uh nurturing or destructive however i think it's
pretty clear that it's nothing to do with gender but it is everything to do with the system that has
governed the world uh and i think it was thomas barry and his dream of the earth which was published
by sierra book club in which he names the four patriarchal establishments which have really
destroyed the earth whether or i think a classical empire the nation state the ecclesiastical establishment
and the modern corporation and when you speak of people like maddie maddie thatcher and gene
kids of fitzburg catholic do you think for one minute they would be in the position they are in
if they used the feminine qualities which were separated from the masculine qualities the feminine
qualities were left in the the domestic sphere the masculine qualities were put in the public sphere
which was competitive competitiveness aggressiveness so-called rationalism these things that are utterly
destroying our world which we may never survive and everything that was considering caring these were
the soft values even the word soft software was considered i mean get tough on this get tough
everything we do is related to the idealization of masculine virtues the male totally male god the
punishing the god who goes and says reduce your enemies to ashes i mean we were dying from this and
the earth was considered also something that you know you had to act upon the rational male acts upon the object which is
everything that is inferior which is because the ideal was the masculine transcendent mind
well now do you think there's more awareness now of that particular trait and i'm going to continue to say
a trait in humanity because you know uh men uh males are a part of humanity and uh so are females well i think
both men and women have had to suppress you know their humanity because of the system but uh for some reason the
male the male qualities were definitely those that were exercised in the public sphere and certainly the female
qualities were supposed to be kept in the the the domestic sphere that is the caring the love and
everything that was devalued i mean women's things you know everything to do with taking care of plants even
every butterflies all these things upon which we depend because utterly all our our history has been
mighty makes righty okay but you're you're calling those female qualities now is it possible that those
qualities also exist in males but they're suppressed as well absolutely okay then maybe they're not
female qualities maybe they're human qualities i mean there are many very nurturing men who have
developed their feminine qualities but i mean for instance as far as technology goes in science
the the quality i mean what's her name uh macklin talk who got the nobel prize i mean she introduced this
whole new aspect of science that in fact you could use it in a very different way but it
most of the times it is used to support the very aggressive masculine uh mighty makes righty and and
who was it the chalice and the blade i think is incredibly clear it is um what's his name ashley
montague and and also daniel ellsberg consider it the most important book out i mean it's 1988 random
house or i'm not supposed to say my chalice and the blade and which ryan eisler
explains that you you see that wherever you have a very very fish a fascist state i mean you wherever
you have war monitoring you have the suppression of women if you have the right well look at the right
wing um religious establishment in this country they want to put women back in you know back in the
home i look at komeini uh you can go on and on and down through history where you had war monitoring
you had suppression of the feminine principle as you did in uh tristan uh the what is it the legend of
tristan and his old yes mark banished the queen uh then what was her name blanche uh white flower from
the kingdom and so that's why tristan was called sad from the french triste tristan and in other
words the male has had to suppress his feminine but the artist very often the male artist is allowed
to express his feminine side and it's considered all right in society yeah but you see i just don't
like calling it the feminine side and the masculine side i just think it's two different sides of
humanity the males tend to tend to suppress one more and the females tend to suppress one less
and i think if we stop thinking about them as as masculine and feminine traits then maybe we could
actually you know not suppress any of them you see what i'm saying absolutely but this is what
unfortunately they have been defined by culture and separated and one half of humanity has been assigned
certain qualities and the other i mean the rational man the the rational man the emotional woman
the active man the passive woman i mean this was all these certain qualities were put
into the male i mean by society and enforced over the centuries but the unfortunate thing is in the
public sphere the so-called so-called male qualities have been idealized and exercised and in the church
i mean we have a god you can't expect the people could be better than their god i mean we've had a real
estate agent as a god we've had a a a god who says go take i mean we all came over grab the the the land
from the indians we didn't listen to the wonderful chief seattle who said the human being is but as
a straight did not create the web of life he has but a strand in it i mean uh we've had a the god was
in the image of the male so-called male qualities the aggressive uh punishing uh god you know and until we
outgrow i mean we're maturing we're maturing and we're coming we're going to come to the fullness
you know of humanity but the only thing that's i mean well consciousness is raising every second
but but what is frightening is we may not have time because you see of what we've done to the planet of
course that's that's uh i mean we've got to forget as somebody said there's going to be this very
interesting um uh it's called religion and ecology up at wainwright house and where they're getting
people from all uh the different religions and they're saying how is it that when there was the
mother uh the mother goddess when there was the goddess uh there was a love and respect of the earth
i mean the way the indians had such respect they realized their utter dependency on it and then suddenly
um the judeo-christian god and these are all people from different religions came in and then
the human became the center of the universe the absolute center of the universe and and the measure
of all things and and this again is the dominant superior the dominant inferior uh model which says
that well since i'm the stronger then you disappear but the beauty of it is that the butterflies and the
wigglies and the squirmies uh that were here before us we we depend on utterly we can't crush them we
can't crush but what's weaker than us but we utterly depend on and this is what we will see that the
things that couldn't even speak back the silent things of the world it is on them that our destiny
depends and i think this would be an incredibly um enlightening and a sobering experience for us to
realize that no we we we are we can uh destroy things but uh we will lose well the very fact that
the uh the strong want to destroy the weak means that the strong are afraid of the weak of what they
could do if uh if they ever actually got their way you know well i guess our caller isn't with us
anymore but uh yeah that's uh that's a very good point and i think a lot of people are going to have to
uh have to stand up and be counted you know you can't change you can't grow just by sitting in a
chair you know you you grow and you change by getting out there growing changing talking yelling
making change and people are going to get arrested people are going to get hurt some people are going
to die but it's it's part of the ongoing human struggle something that always has to be going
on and uh sitting back and doing nothing who was it that said all it takes is for great men to be
silent and horrible things will happen 279 3400 we have a few minutes left and use is up at 11 o'clock
margo adler's coming in 11 45 and you're listening to wbai good evening yes hi this is professor al moses
and i'd like to state my views on the environment well go ahead first of all in reference to your last
caller i'm a modern aggressive male and damn proud of it now on the environment do you know that every
40 000 years we have an ice age on this planet are we do yes that's right oh boy it's a fact and the
greenhouse effect effect will actually save us from the ice age now wait just one minute here so you're
saying you're saying that we should continue to uh spew pollutants into the air because that's
going to save us from the ice age that's right oh okay well i guess that makes a lot of sense any
any other suggestions and now about this hole in the ozone yeah now they say that the hole in the
ozone will create mutation they give mutation a bad name yeah they certainly do because it is actually
positive if it wasn't for mutation we'd all be the simplest single-cell animals still living in the
ocean did you know that well yeah you got a definite point there the more i look around
me today the more i pray for mutations good evening hello yeah go ahead it's hard to follow a call like
that well you're gonna have to try this is rich from long island city how you doing oh i guess you're
still there then i'm looking out the window now hoping i don't hear a boom or something is there a lot
of activity out there yeah it's uh
well since he won't hang up the phone i'll hang up the phone that will make it more dramatic we'll
all wonder what happened to rich from long island city oh i felt the vibration from that it must have
just hit new york wow good evening well don't worry we were only kidding good evening
well i guess he fainted oh well good evening hello yeah go ahead hi um i just want to pick
up on the maggie thatcher jean kirkpatrick debate okay well you have to make it quick we only have
about a minute okay i just want to you know i don't think those women got to be where they are in a
man's world by um asserting qualities that they would have as women i mean i think you have to
act a certain way to get where they got can i just world so just using those examples i think is maybe
what turned off so many people and maybe kind of raise their ire towards you first of all first of all
if i could just say one thing what kind of phone are you using you've got the i mean you're you it
sounds like you're in the studio no you've got a really cheap phone you've got a great i mean it
sounds like you're right right here but anyway okay to get back to what you were saying yes
okay uh you're saying living in a man's world but i think that's the problem if you keep
considering it a man's world you know it's never going to be your world without being afraid but my
boyfriend can and it is a man's world when george bush is in the white house and he can tell me that
i can't have an abortion or he can tell a woman who's raped that the federal government isn't going
to pay for an abortion or on and on and on i mean just be realistic about it you know i think
what you're saying about men and women being equal is good and that you don't want to stereotype
men into being aggressors and women into being emotional hysterical and everything but i think
you do have to face up to the power relationships that are very real in the world right but that
doesn't mean resigning yourself to the fact that you can't change it oh absolutely that's not a fact
at all i think it would be great you know someday when little boys aren't taught to play with war
toys and little girls aren't taught to read books about becoming housewives right but you can start
those days now you see boys and little girls are socialized differently but i definitely but the
people you come in contact with the friends that you know and the the people that you you speak to
uh you can influence them you can talk to them you know it doesn't have to be that way with with with
your circle and perhaps your circle will merge with other circles you know we have to start it it's not
going to be started for us oh i agree i mean i think it's kind of a question of semantics just what
i'm arguing with you over and i just wanted to um to recommend a book in a different voice by carol
gilligan which talks about how little girls and women are um socialized to be more cooperative and