newscasts for weeks
while the pay is not great for the Angolite staffers here
they recently got a raise to 7 cents an hour
there's little doubt among them that the work they do is important
and that it always maintains the highest standards of journalism
Floyd Webb is serving a life sentence for murder
when we write articles we don't just write them just to fill up pages in a magazine
we write them to have results
we write them to have impact
that's why we're known for the type of journalism we're known for
we tell it just like it is whether it's inmates or whether it's free people
when I say free people I mean prison officials or prison employees
it doesn't matter
we tell it like it is
and that's what's kept us alive for all these years
I'm David Isay
next week the governor of Louisiana will meet with Angolite editor Wilbert Rito
to decide whether to grant him clemency
Rito's been in prison for 29 years
and that's some of the news for Thursday, April 26, 1990
the news was engineered by Dred Scott Keyes
it was produced with Julie Cohen and Donald Rouse
I'm Amy Goodman in New York with Tara Seiler in Washington
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and if we had to air commercials
you'd never be able to hear the program you're about to hear now
hi this is Emmanuel Goldstein
and you're about to enter the fifth corner
just smell the bacon
the hot street shop
the hot street shop
the hot street shop
the boarded up
and the terrace it is fenced in
see-through shields
are walled across
the way that you came in
but there's no need to get excited
as the lorries bring the bacon in
cause the housewives are all singing
groovy times
are here
again
they discovered
they discovered one black saturday
the mugs don't march
they run
so you can excuse the nervous trigger man
just as once
put jump in the gun
say we're picking up
the dead
out of the broken glove
yes it's number one
the radio set
groovy times
have come
too far
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy
hey groovy
hey groovy
hey
the intake is on
the uptake
and it accelerates
the pretty grim
i can't remember
his first appearance
now look what's happened to him
so they put him in
a dark suit night
from 1964
the king of all the evil
ITV
groovy times
forever
no
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
groovy times
If you ever need a little bit of energy
always dig up a clash song
because that will inject you full of things
that you didn't know you could be injected with
that's called Groovy Times
came from the Cost of Living EP
but you may have seen it on a single
that was included
I got into a fight about this with somebody
I think it was included with the London Calling record
somebody else said it was the first album
someone can help me out there
I would appreciate it
also it's on a new record
a collection of rare tracks and b-sides
for all the people that never
got the rare tracks and b-sides
it just came out
Groovy Times from 1979
and yes we're in Groovy Times here
this is Emmanuel Goldstein
and today, tonight
we've got a program that I think
will shock you
it should outrage you
it should make you so angry
that
well I'd rather not think of what you might do
when you hear the things that
are on this piece of paper
you don't know what's on this piece of paper
do you, this is radio
you have no idea what I'm looking at here
oh boy, how do I put this into words
well, what, another song?
alright, alright
I'll play another song first
and then we're gonna go right to this
folks, be prepared to be shocked
be prepared to be angry
because we're all
gonna be in some deep water soon
deep water
deep water
deep water
deep water
I'm in trouble
and I'm up to my neck again
deep water
deep water
deep water
I'm out of money
but it's banged by the fact
it's open and close in my mind
cause I was here
I never wanted to be
the deep water again
deep water
deep water
deep water
too hard to sleep with my eyes open
deep water
deep water
deep water
deep water
dry and I've got tears trapped in the ocean
in the shores
watching my day
break through
echoes of someone laughing at me
I never wanted to be
the deep water again
deep water
the deep water
deep water
miles and miles and miles away
deep water
I'm took the miles and miles and miles away
deep water
I'm took the miles and miles and miles and miles away
I'm miles and miles away, away, away, away, deep water, deep water, I try my sorrows with too many blues, deep water, deep water, sometimes I let you cast away my pride.
Like a crystal hard at night, not watching the tide, because it's ребята, never wants to be, I never wanted to be, I never wanted to be.
And deep water again, deep water, deep hidden miles and miles away, deep water, deep hidden miles and miles away, deep water, deep hidden miles away,
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
And, yes, I can see there's folks out there that are outraged and upset because they're already calling in.
You don't even know what I'm talking about, and you're calling in to voice your opinion on it.
I mean, that's silly. Come on.
Hang up. Hang up. Everybody hang up.
That's silly, folks.
Wait until you hear what I've got to say here.
This is important.
And odds are you have one of these pieces of paper in your house even as we speak.
One of these nasty pieces of paper.
Now, those of you in New Jersey and those of you in Connecticut and those of you in Pennsylvania.
I know you're in Pennsylvania because I drove through Pennsylvania, and you can get WBAI there.
You have to try, but you can get it.
Those of you, I'm afraid, there's no way you will have one of those pieces of paper because this piece of paper came from New York Telephone.
That's right.
It's that ridiculous little hello newsletter.
So, when you get your phone bill, do you read that?
Do you look at that?
Do you see what they're saying?
Well, they said some pretty outrageous things in the most recent one.
So, if you have one with you, if you know where it is, go get it, and we're going to read it together.
And then we're going to talk about it.
We're going to talk about it quite a bit, and then you're going to have the opportunity not only to talk about it here,
but to talk about it in front of New York Telephone.
I'll tell you exactly how that's going to happen because they certainly won't tell you that.
All right.
New rates requested.
Now, whenever you see those words, you know that something nasty is about to happen.
And, you know, you expect it sometimes, but you don't expect it to be this bad, to be this sneaky.
Yeah, sneaky is definitely a word that applies here, and I'll go into that.
I'm not just going to toss out these allegations without backing them up here.
Let's hear what they have to say.
New York Telephone has filed with the New York State Public Service Commission, known as the PSC,
for $965 million in new rates to take effect on January 1st, 1991.
The filing on March 14th is New York Telephone's first general rate case filing in six years.
I'll repeat that.
The first general rate case filing in six years.
I don't know what it means either, folks.
I don't know what that means.
I just know they've raised their rates at some point in the last six years because my bill has gone up in six years.
I don't know what they're trying to pull there.
The new rates would take effect at the expiration of a rate case moratorium agreement with the PSC.
More mumbo-jumbo.
Nobody knows what it means.
During the moratorium...
Okay, folks, this is it.
During the moratorium, we reduced rates by $467 million.
While the Consumer Price Index increased 14.4% over the five-year moratorium period,
the average New York Telephone home phone bill decreased 6.9%.
Now, this is like reading one of those newspapers that's put out by, you know, by a king or something,
telling you how everything is going just great when everybody knows that it's all falling apart.
Are phone bills decreased 6.9%?
I don't... I'm not living in that galaxy.
I don't know what they're talking about.
Anyway, let's get back to the matter at hand.
And if approved, the new rates would increase the average residence bill for local service by 34%.
34%.
Charges for touch-tone service would decrease by 20%.
We'll get into that a little bit later.
Locality mileage charges would decrease by 10% and would be eliminated in certain areas.
Lifeline rates and the 25-cent local coin phone rate would not change.
God bless you, New York Telephone.
Beyond covering increasing costs, the company must generate earnings sufficient to attract investors
and make possible the financing of network improvements,
ensuring a quality communication system that will attract businesses and help keep New York State's economy strong.
In other words, if you don't like this, you're against New York State's economy.
Anyway, to generate the necessary earnings, we must price our services to more closely reflect their costs,
especially in a time of intense and increasing competition in the telecommunications industry.
Can anybody name a competitor to New York Telephone?
There aren't any.
You're stuck with them.
You can't pick another company to provide local service.
New York Telephone is the only game in town.
Today, our costs to provide a resident's customer with home telephone service is $28.30 a month on average,
which is twice the average monthly access line rate of $13.01.
The remainder of the cost, $15.29, is subsidized with revenue from optional, non-basic services,
which are subject to competition from service providers who do not have to inflate their prices with subsidies.
Again, I don't know who these people are they're competing with, but nobody's offering to provide me with a dial tone or local service other than New York Telephone.
Anyway, let's get to the heart of the matter.
Here are the proposed rate changes.
Now, if you have message rate service, the basic monthly charge will be increasing to $15.03 from...
I'm not going to read this their way.
They read the big number first and then give you the little number.
No, we're going to do it my way.
We're going to read what it is now and what it's going to become.
I see why they did it this way, but we're going to do it my way.
The basic monthly charge would increase from $7.55 to $15.03 for untimed message rate service,
and from $6.58 to $12 for timed message rate service.
I don't know what they mean when they say it's going to be increasing 34%.
That looks like it's increasing 100% to me.
It looks like it's doubling.
Basic budget service.
Well, that's an easy one.
Basic budget service would be eliminated since its function is now performed by Lifeline services.
Basic budget customers would choose another service, timed or untimed message rate service,
or a flat rate service where available.
Okay, flat rate service.
The basic monthly charge would increase $7.48.
That's from the current range of between $6.52.
This is a really complicated way to say it.
Let's say it's $6.52 for you now for flat rate service.
It's going to go up to about $14.
If you're paying something on the order of $18.84, it will go up to $26.32.
Flat rate customers pay one of ten monthly charges depending on their rate group,
which is determined by the number of telephone lines in their local calling area.
Okay.
Flat rate reclassification.
Customers in 103 communities with flat rate service would see larger increases
because, as called for in the tariff for flat rate service,
telephone line growth has moved them into a higher rate group.
Right.
For example, Staten Island is one example they give.
The rate would go up to $22.23.
Currently, it's only $13.43.
The charge for a call within a downstate home region
or an upstate primary calling area known as Band A
would increase from $0.10.2 to $0.11.
I can deal with that.
That's about the only thing I can deal with.
Downstate flat rate calling outside the primary calling area
but within the home region would increase to $0.11 from $0.10.2 for the first minute
and to $0.2 from $0.02 per additional minute.
Okay, that's the kind of stuff you expect to hear.
Now, this is interesting.
The initial period for downstate home region or upstate Band A calls
would be reduced to three minutes from five minutes.
In other words, they give you a charge of the first five minutes
and there's a certain charge attached to that.
They're going to change that to the first three minutes
but what's interesting here is they say they're going to decrease the rate
to $0.07 from $0.08.1.
Now, it's not clear if they mean they're going to be charging $0.07 for three minutes
instead of $0.08.1 for five minutes
in which case they're not reducing it at all.
But that's, again, trivial compared to the big stuff
which we haven't yet gotten to.
Service connection charges, these one-time charges would change
to reflect the cost of providing these services.
In other words, we've all been getting a free ride all this time.
The minimum charge for one new line on premises
already wired and equipped with jacks
where no installation visit is necessary
would increase from $52.70 to $86.
That's where no installation visit is necessary.
That's basically for throwing a switch.
$86 instead of the current $52.70.
The maximum charge where a customer has us install a wire and jacks
would increase from $64.65 to $99
plus time and material charges
which currently are $50 for the first half hour
and $20 for each additional quarter hour or fraction thereof.
Okay, now, here comes the fun thing.
It's under Other Changes.
The evening off-peak calling discount
would be reduced from 35% to 25%.
In other words, instead of you getting a discount
at 9 o'clock between 9 and 11 of 35%,
that discount is only going to be 25%.
So it's an across-the-board rate increase there,
which they're not giving specific numbers for,
just changing the percentage.
And that's not all.
Night and weekend, the discount has been 60%.
They want to lower that to 50%.
Raise the rates a bit.
The current $0.43 charge for a call to directory assistance
would not change.
However, the monthly allowance of two free directory assistance requests
would be eliminated.
So, that's another rate increase sort of hidden in there.
Now, this is one that I have a particular gripe with.
A $0.50 charge would be introduced to request directory assistance
from a New York Telephone coin phone.
In other words,
every coin phone will charge you $0.50 to dial 411 to get information.
Now, currently, a lot of those rip-off payphones,
you know, the ones that aren't New York Telephone payphones,
they charge you for information,
but they are required,
required by the law to have a phone book
next to the phone or in the premises where the phone is.
Now, that's not the case right now with New York Telephone payphones.
Are they going to somehow slip around that law?
Or, what's going to happen there?
$0.50 to find out a local phone number
that's going to cost you $0.25 to call.
Doesn't quite seem logical, does it?
A new monthly surcharge of $0.95 per line
would subsidize Lifeline Services
and the New York State Relay Service
for the hearing and speech impaired.
Got no problem with that.
The 3% monthly upstate exchange credit
would be eliminated.
Never even heard of it before.
Message rate services would be introduced
in 23 upstate exchanges.
No new two-party or four-party service
would be offered in areas
where facilities for individual line service
are available.
Surcharges for operator-handled calls,
those are collect, billing to third-party,
person-to-person, or calling card calls.
Those surcharges will increase $0.10.
And the surcharge to verify a busy line
to find out if it's really busy
or if it's off the hook,
that surcharge will increase
from the current $0.43 to $1.
And the charge to actually interrupt
a conversation in an emergency
will increase from $0.89 to $1.50.
I remember when all that was free,
only a few years ago.
There was no charge for any of this.
Now this, this is the worst of all.
A $0.50 charge would be introduced
for having an operator perform a service
not involved with completing a call,
such as providing the time,
or really doing anything else.
In other words, it's going to cost you
$0.50 to call the operator.
$0.50 to call the operator,
unless the operator does something else
that involves a charge.
It's incredible that they've got the gall
to propose something like this.
If you call the operator to find out
some bit of information,
such as, you know,
where does this exchange show up,
or anything, anything you call the operator for,
if it doesn't involve placing a call,
they're going to charge you $0.50.
What do you think of that?
How about this?
The federal transfer surcharge,
whatever that is,
would increase from 3.82% to 6.63%.
And that's going to pretty much double.
So, there's two things you can do
at this point, folks.
Two things.
One is to call us up
and voice your opinion on this
or any other phone-related material.
212-279-3400 is our phone number.
The other thing,
and the more important thing,
and what you should be getting
your pens and paper ready for,
is when the actual hearings are.
Because they do have to have hearings.
They have to bring all this up
before the Public Service Commission,
and it can be denied.
It certainly can be denied,
but people have to speak up
and voice their opinion on everything.
Now, there's going to be
one hearing on Wednesday, May 2nd
at 12.15 p.m.
That's at 400 Broome Street
in Manhattan
on the 6th floor,
Hearing Room A.
And I believe that's
Offices of the Public Service Commission.
12.15, May 2nd.
And also, there'll be
two on Monday, May 21st
at the Hempstead Town Hall
on Long Island
at 1 p.m. and 7 p.m.
It's extremely important
that people voice their opinions here
because what's happening is
we're really being led for a ride here.
For instance,
I mentioned the touchtone fee.
The one positive thing
is that they're lowering
the touchtone fee,
but that fee should be
eliminated altogether.
There is no service
that is being provided
by charging you for touchtones.
The touchtones are used by you.
They come from your phone,
and yet the phone company
somehow manages to get away
with charging you
for using them.
It's standard equipment everywhere.
You know,
it's not something extra
they've got to install.
It was about 30 years ago,
but it's not anymore.
Yet they still manage to charge
as if it's an extra service.
So,
they can't have it both ways.
They say that they
want to eliminate
these charges.
So,
in order to do that,
they have to raise the rates.
But they're not eliminating
the charges.
They're simply reducing them
by a very small amount
and doubling the rates.
Makes you wonder
where they're really coming from.
Now,
a couple of phone numbers,
and then we'll
go to some phones here.
Before a final decision
is reached,
this is what they have to tell you,
before a final decision
is reached,
the PSC will schedule
hearings throughout the state.
Information about the times
and places
of these hearings
can be obtained
by calling the
Public Service Commission
toll-free
at 1-800-342-3377.
Now,
this is interesting.
This is really
kind of interesting here.
We're going to pick up
the phone
and dial that number
right now.
800-342-3377.
Now,
if you call that
in the middle of the day,
you'll get a continuous
busy signal.
If you call it now,
of course,
you'll just get a ring
and nothing else.
But,
what's particularly
interesting here is
we're going to call it again
on another line here.
They only have one line.
Is that not incredible?
Only one line
for the entire state
of New York
for the Public Service Commission.
So,
I'm going to give you
a couple of numbers.
That's the only
toll-free number.
1-800-342-3377.
There's a number
in New York City.
I think they have
two lines.
So,
two lines
for the entire city.
212-488-5330.
And,
if you're up in Albany
or if you just want
to call up to Albany,
area code
518-474-5527.
Now,
what you have to do,
and I called this number
a couple of days ago.
This is a different number
that I found
all by myself
and it took about
an hour to find it.
That's
212-488-4141.
That is the number
you have to call
to register
to say something
at this hearing.
And,
I talked to the person
at the Public Service
Commission
and they said
they have to give
everybody that wants
to speak
an opportunity
to be heard.
And I asked,
well,
how long do these
hearings go on for?
And he said,
they go on
until everybody
has said
what they have to say.
So,
I'd like to have
this hearing
go on for a few days
here because
this is something
very important.
This is something
that will affect
everybody in New York City,
everybody in New York State.
and I think
it's going to affect
people in a very
adverse way.
Your phone bills
are going to double
in a year.
Within a year
your phone bills
will double.
You won't be able
to get free information
from pay phones
anywhere,
locally.
You'll wind up
paying more
for information
than you will
for the phone call.
You'll be paying
all kinds of
surcharges
that you don't
understand,
sort of like now,
but more.
And,
you have to pay
50 cents
to call the operator.
Now,
I know what the
answer to this
question is going
to be,
but I'm going
to ask it anyway.
I'm going to get
a New York
telephone operator
on the phone.
See what they know.
Telephone phone, PJ?
Yes, operator.
I was wondering,
do you know
anything about
a proposal
to charge
50 cents
to call the operator?
Excuse me?
Do you know
anything about
a proposal
to charge
50 cents
to reach
the operator?
We have not
been notified
of anything
like that
ever yet.
You don't
know anything
about it?
No, I don't.
Okay, thank you.
If you wish
to speak to
a supervisor,
maybe they
might know.
I don't know.
Sure, why not?
Bye, Mama.
Thank you.
It's always fun
talking to a supervisor.
Thank you.
Well, yes,
of course,
this is the
10-minute wait
to talk to
the supervisor,
so we're going
to skip that
part of it
tonight.
I can tell you
they'll go,
they'll look up
on a piece
of paper somewhere,
they'll look
all over the office
and then they'll
say, well,
we couldn't find
anything either.
The phone company
usually doesn't
tell its employees
until the last
possible moment
what's really
going on.
So, that's
the facts.
It's kind of
disturbing and
kind of shocking,
I think.
And I haven't
heard or read
anything anywhere
saying that this
is outrageous.
Am I the only
person that thinks
this is outrageous?
I'd like to know.
212-279-3400.
Give us a call
and we'll take
your calls on the air.
If you have any
other questions
regarding telephones
or telephone
service or
things like that,
even throw in
computer hacking,
I suppose,
but our computer
hacking show
will be in two
weeks.
We're going to
do a show
about some of
the really,
really shocking
things that are
going on in
the world.
And that should
coincide with the
spring issue of
2600, so we'll
have plenty of
material to draw
from.
212-279-3400.
And a very
good evening.
If there's
anything I like
better than
honey and ketchup.
Well, we don't
have time for
that, do we?
Good evening.
Hi, I'm
shocked, too.
Well, that's
good to hear.
I have something
that's even more
shocking as far
as the phone
company is
concerned.
Okay.
You were
reading from
something that
was sent in
last month's
bill.
Now, I
received this
month's bill
with one of
these brochures
called Hello.
You sometimes
get these things
with your bill.
What's yours
dated?
Mine's dated
March, April
1990.
Well, this
hello thing is
for April,
May 90.
Ah, okay.
Now, I'm
going to read
you something
and I have
to tell you
in advance
that I
called my
representative
whose number
appears on
my bill
to get
further
explanations
of this.
And I
don't think
who I spoke
to was able
to help me
out.
Maybe you
and I
can figure
this thing
out together.
Well, let's
give it a try.
Go ahead.
Now, I
have to
tell you
that this
has to
do with
the
95-cent
fee
for the
wire
guarantee.
You know,
the wire
that comes
into your
home,
if anything
happens to
it,
you get 95-cent
a month
and they
come and
fix it for you
without charging
you an arm
and a leg.
That's another
incredible rip-off
they've been
getting away
with.
And they
try to
pressure you
into keeping
that 95-cent
a month.
And at the
same time,
they tell you
that chances
are nothing's
going to happen.
That's true.
But wouldn't
it be nice
just to be
safe?
Let me ask
you,
have you
ever heard
of anybody
whose inside
wiring broke
somehow?
Well, I
had a problem
once where
I was talking
to people
and I would
get disconnected
and the guy
came up and
found that the
problem was
downstairs
in the basement
had nothing
to do with
my phone
or the wiring
inside.
So it wouldn't
have been
covered anyway.
Well, that
was free.
Whatever comes
in from the
outside up to
the point where
it enters your
home is to
stay take care
of without
charging you.
Right, they
still have to
do that.
I mean, the
day is coming
when they
won't even
do that.
You'll have
to climb
out on the
pole yourself
and take
care of it.
But that
wasn't the
inside wiring.
Right, but I
must read this
little thing to
you, if I may.
Go ahead.
Okay, reclassifying
your jack could
bring benefits.
If you have
only one
telephone jack
serving a phone
line in your
home, you might
be able to have
that jack
reclassified as a
network interface
device, and it
could save you
money.
To qualify as a
network interface
device, the jack
must be located
where our line
first enters your
home.
It also must be
modular, the type
that lets you
unplug your phone
from it.
See picture above.
If the jack
qualifies, it
is to your
advantage to
go seek
reclassification
because we
are responsible
for the
maintenance of
network interface
devices that
are considered
part of our
line.
Therefore, we
would repair any
problem with the
jack free of
charge.
There's another
benefit.
If you
previously ordered
an optional wire
maintenance plan
from New York
Telephone, you
would be entitled
to a credit.
That's because
you would no
longer have any
inside wiring.
The amount of
the credit would
depend on the
type of wire
maintenance plan
you ordered and
how many months
you paid for that
wire maintenance
plan since January
1, 1990.
If you want to
reclassify your
jack, please call
your resident
service representative.
Now, I've got a
couple of questions
about this.
Well, reclassifying
your jack is always
an important time
in someone's life.
What's your
question?
Here's the thing.
In a building like
the one that I live
in, which is like
60 years old, we
have the wiring
for instance,
what comes from
the basement
into your closet
before the telephone
is actually hooked
up to that.
That's the old
style screw on top.
It's not the
modular type sort
of thing.
In more buildings,
you probably have
that interface type
of thing.
Now, what happens
if you wanted a
technician to come
up to your home
to replace that
old style thing
where the wires
are connected
connected to put
that jack in so
that you can
plug in your
new phone?
Are you talking
about a jack
inside your
apartment?
Right.
In other words,
where the wiring
comes up from the
basement into the
closet before the
other wiring is
taken around your
room.
You want to go from
one room to the
other end of the
room.
You know, the guy
comes up and he
staples the wire
across the wall.
Right.
And then he puts
the modular jack
down where you
want it in the
room and then you
plug the phone in.
Right.
At one end, it
has to go to the
wire that comes up
from the basement
and that's where
that thing is
connected.
You see, the way
it works now,
they're only going
to go as far as
the basement.
That's where the
interface is or
would be if the
jack is converted
to an interface.
They won't go
into your apartment
and do things to
the wire there
because that's
considered yours.
Yeah, but what
I'm saying is
that you're not
going to put your
phone into the
closet that usually
comes up through
a closet and
then they string
a wire across
the room and
where that thing
is in the closet
is where the
interface should be.
Then they string
the wire across
the rest of the
room to where
you want the
other outlet to
be.
You know what
I'm talking about?
Right.
Well, is the
interface, the
interface then
would be in
your closet.
I'm not familiar
with how
apartments work.
It would be
in the closet.
That's where it
comes up.
That's the starting
point in your
home.
Okay, so if the
interface is in
your closet, they'll
go as far as
your closet and
then you're
expected to take
it from there.
Right.
But it has the
old-style wiring.
Now, I wanted
to know how much
it would cost for
the technician to
come up to take
the old-style
wiring out, put
the interface in
so that I could
string the wire up
to any part of
the other room.
These guys get
$88 just to put
the thing in
there.
I mean, even if
you just had to
have them come
and look at it,
it would work.
Based on what
you just read me,
are they saying
that they will do
that for free or
are they saying
they want to
charge you for
that?
Well, I had
to call the
service representative
whose number was
on my bill to
ask her about
this, and I'm
not even sure she
understood what I
was talking about.
It's good because
it's so new.
It just came in
the bill this
month.
You've got to
see this when
you get your
bill.
Yeah, I'm
going to look
at that as
soon as I get
my next bill.
I can hardly
wait.
I don't understand
this.
If I'm thinking
correctly, you
see, I've got
a modular jack
here that you
plug in, a
modern thing.
Right.
Well, it's to
your advantage to
get the latest,
and if they're...
What I'm saying,
sir, is this.
In order for me
to have the old
style wiring
replaced, they're
going to charge me
$88 for that.
Now, if you're
going to pay $0.95 a
month for what I've
got now, the wire
maintenance charge,
you have to do
the math.
If I have to pay
$88 to have this
fixed, I'm going to
have to wait four
and a half years
before the thing
breaks even, and
then I would
eliminate the
$88.95 charge
four and a half
years later.
Right.
Well, read that
part of your
little hello book
carefully and see
if there's any
mention of a
charge there,
because I don't
think they charge
for that.
I don't think
they're allowed
to replace old
decrepit wiring on
their part with
something new,
because that
interface belongs
to them.
It doesn't
belong to you.
She said
something about
getting a new
modular jack to
go over that,
but I don't think
that's the thing
that we're talking
about here.
Well, the
interface is a
modular jack, but
it's not just a
modular jack, it's
a little more
than that.
But maybe we're
confused about how
they do it in
apartment buildings
to go from the
basement to the
apartment.
Uh-huh.
That's something I'm
not certain about.
I don't know how
that works.
That might be
considered your
landlord's property
and not the
phone company.
I'm not exactly
certain how that
works.
What I suggest you
do is give a
call to 611, and
after the computer
answers and all
that garbage, just
try to get to a
human and ask to
speak to a foreman.
Right.
Now, 611, of
course, is the
repair law.
Right.
Well, that is what
you will need to
talk to, because
the business office
won't know the
first thing about
this.
That's how I did
it this morning.
Yeah, call them
and ask to speak to
a foreman, because
they'll understand
what's going on, and
just explain your
situation exactly, and
ask, is there a
charge involved here,
and what, you know,
how does it work?
But the way they
lay this whole thing
out, you think,
wow, this is great,
I'm going to save
some money.
But after doing the
math, four and a
half years down the
line, you see that
it may continue to pay
the 95 cents a month.
Uh-huh.
Well, continue
listening, too, because
another caller may call
in with some more
information on this, and
I regret I'm not that
familiar with how
apartments work.
Thanks very much for
calling, though.
279-3400 is our
telephone number, and
we're talking about the
phone company.
Good evening.
Oh.
Hello?
Yes, go ahead.
Is this WBAN?
That's what it is.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Listen, I was
listening.
I love your program,
by the way.
It's really interesting
to me, and you helped
us learn a lot about
negotiating these things
that we sort of ignore
because we think we
can't get them clear in
our minds, so I
appreciate that.
But when you were
talking about the
telephone company saying
that there was a
decrease in the amount
of money that people
paid for their services,
I thought, yeah, well,
mine decreased, but the
reason why mine decreased
was because I took out
certain services that I
was getting because I
couldn't afford them
anymore.
What services were those?
Well, there was a basic
touchstone, and there was
a call waiting.
Uh-huh.
Well, you know, the
call waiting, what did
they charge, $5 a month
for that?
I don't know.
Whatever it was, I didn't
want to pay it anymore.
Okay, I'm going to tell
you something, and everybody
else, that will probably
save you quite a bit.
First of all, it's very
unfair to charge somebody
for touchstones because
obviously you have a
touchstone phone, correct?
Yes.
And you can, are you on
it now?
Yes.
Press a button, any
button.
Yeah, no, I know.
It works.
It works because you're
creating the tones.
Exactly.
They're your tones, they
don't belong to the phone
company.
What the phone company
does, the phone company
is able to put a block on a
line of somebody that
doesn't pay.
It's all computerized, and
the non-computerized
switches can't do it
because they can't tell
the difference between a
person that pays for
touchstone and a person
that doesn't.
The computerized switches
though, they can say,
okay, block out tone
access to these people, and
that is all the technology
that's at work.
It's a standard feature,
touchstone decoders.
They're not even decoders
anymore because they're
standard features, and
that's why I think it's
very unfair to charge
somebody for that.
Now, in the case of
call waiting, call
waiting is kind of an
annoying thing to have
sometimes, and it's
useful in other cases,
but $5 a month to have
something that, you know,
just that one feature is a
bit much.
You can get a, actually, I
don't know what's going to
happen after this rate
increase if it is approved,
but right now you can get
another phone line in your
house apartment for as
little as, I believe, about
$5 or $6 a month
additional, which is almost
the same as what you're
paying now for call
waiting, except you have
another line, and you can
have what's known as call
tripping, call hunting
actually, where if your
line is busy, it will jump
over to the next line, and
that service, folks, that
service is free.
There's no charge for
that.
They don't push that.
They don't tell you about
that very much, but there
is no charge to have your
calls jump from one line to
the other if one line is
busy.
The only condition is that
they both be in the same
exchange.
So you can set up what's
known as an auxiliary line,
and that's the word you got
to use when you order a new
line.
They say you want an
auxiliary line, they won't
charge you the full-fledged
rate, which is about $20 a
month for a phone line.
They'll charge you instead
about another $5 a month.
Of course, you'll still have
to pay the installation fee,
but I think after you pay
that out, it'll be worthwhile
because not only will you
have call waiting, you'll be
able to do something like
three-way if you have a
two-line phone, and you'll
just have another line.
You won't have to interrupt
your calls.
You can ignore it.
An answering machine can get
it.
It's a lot more advantageous
than call waiting.
Okay, one more question.
Yeah.
And I appreciate your
patience.
It's really nice to hear.
You know, I have two more
in the apartment, so that if
I call and I say that I want
an auxiliary line, they won't
have to install anything.
Well, they will have to put in
another interface.
So, I mean, they're going to
charge you installation, yeah,
but they're not going to, I
think the rate for that is
about $80, but they can
divide that over 12 months
with no interest.
What I'm saying to you is
that there are two more
interface that belong to two
previous lines.
Oh, I see what you're saying.
Yeah.
So, they're already there.
Everything's here.
I don't know what they do in
cases like that.
They might still charge you
the $80.
I know they charge you
something, but maybe it's as
low as $60 or something, but
still they charge you more
than they should.
Okay.
That's great.
Yeah.
But what I'm saying great
about it is it's great that
you're telling me and I'm
understanding it and I
appreciate the way you do
it.
Well, I'm glad you
understand and I hope other
people do, but if not, give
us a call and we'll try to
explain it to you.
But I want to repeat the
hearing dates and the
hearing places.
Thanks very much for
calling.
Thank you.
All right.
279-3400.
The hearings on the rate
increases, these outrageous
rate increases that will see
things like a 50-cent charge
for information from pay
phones, you know, not
long-distance information.
That used to be free, too.
It used to be free to call
information anywhere from any
kind of phone.
Now it's, I believe, 60 cents
for long-distance information.
But 50 cents for local
information.
You're walking along a street
somewhere in New York City and
you want to get the number for,
oh, I don't know, a Chinese
restaurant downtown.
You're going to have to pay 50
cents to find out what the
number is and then additional
25 cents to call it.
75 cents for that.
That's kind of outrageous.
So if you're outraged, upset,
and angry and you want to
speak out about it, besides
calling WBAI now, you can show
up in person at a hearing on
Wednesday, May 2nd at the Public
Service Commission, 400 Broom
Street, B-R-O-O-M-E.
It's downtown.
Sixth floor, room A, hearing
room A, and their phone number
is 212-488-4141.
212-488-4141.
You've got to call up and
register to speak.
You know, you can say whatever
you want.
You can talk for as long as you
want, I understand.
A lot of our callers are probably
like that because I know we get a
lot of people that don't know
when to stop sometimes.
So this is the place to be, I
guess.
Public Service Commission, we can
just make this thing go on and
on forever.
Also, if you're out on Long
Island, there's a couple of
hearings on Monday, May 21st,
1 and 7 p.m., Hempstead Town
Hall.
I could not find out from
anybody when they're going to
be reaching a decision on this.
Unfortunately, nobody seems to
know that.
The Public Service Commission
was surprisingly ignorant about
this whole thing.
Makes you wonder.
Okay, 279-3400, area code
212.
Good morning.
Yes, hi.
Hotep Elliot, how are you
tonight, this morning?
I'm good.
How are you?
Okay, I'm very well and I'm
enjoying your show immensely
here.
Excuse me, you're bringing us
some valuable information.
As you're telling us about the
hearing, though, I'm thinking to
myself, this hearing on this
horrendous suggested increases,
I mean, it's going to make phone
service, which is such a vital
necessity, pretty much
inaccessible to, you know, those
folks who fall lower middle
class, so to speak.
It's really horrendous.
I'm also thinking that, you know,
I'd like to see these hearings
evolve more in that, you know,
for those of us who, for
example, and I'd like you to
mention a time who can't be there
directly, you would think that we'd
be able to hook up a phone line
and say our pieces.
I mean, you know, this is an idea
that I'm throwing out.
That's a very good point.
The fact of the matter is, it
takes you a very long time to get
through to the Public Service
Commission because, as we
demonstrated, they only have one
incoming line to their 800 number,
only two for their 212 number.
It's as if they don't want you to
be able to reach them.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And I'd just like to make one
brief comment.
I got so muddled in trying to add
another line and, you know, the
way the business office went about
it in terms of my trying to get
direct answers to direct
questions because I had spoken to
a repairman one time and he had
said some things and I couldn't get
any, you know, correct responses
and there is a basic charge.
You know, even if you get your own
person to, you know, do the install,
there is some sort of a basic charge
that they charge to put in that line.
That's correct.
And lastly, I want to say keep up
the good work.
I had the opportunity to get your,
the hacker, the journal that came
out from the last marathon.
Right, 2600.
Right, 2600 magazine.
Very interesting.
The only thing that I would ask is
when you have some time one
morning, for those of us who this
is totally new to, we need a bit
of a crash course to follow some of
it, but, you know, I figure if I keep
reading it, I'll get more of a sense.
Well, you know, there's, there's so
many different aspects to this.
I mean, the consumer awareness is
actually a very important part of
computer hackers because they realize
they're able to find out things that
the average person doesn't have
access to.
For instance, that whole scandal with
the touch tone fee that's found out
through computer hackers realizing
what's, what's truly going on inside
the telephone switches.
So consumer awareness is one aspect
of it.
The technical aspects, that's
something else.
There's all kinds of things.
So, yeah, crash course is, is
necessary, but there's just so many
aspects to it.
You know, you'd have to pick something
specific, and I could probably go over
that.
Well, that would be great, and we're
just going to continue to listen to
your vital information there, and as
one thing as regards touch tone, as I
recall, when I signed up for this
service, I had like a special rate that
gave me the, you know, touch tone, speed
calling, call folding, and three-way
calling, and the phone company gives the
impression that you have this rate
throughout, and then at some point it
seems to break down where you are paying
like five dollars just for the call
waiting, so it's, you know, the
advertising is not, is not really
truthful, or.
I mean, all, all it is, all it is, is a
keystroke on a computer, and you have
it or you don't.
That is really all it boils down to.
I don't know, what justifies five
dollars a month?
What are you getting for five dollars a
month?
You know, you're getting a certain
option, and, you know, perhaps you
should pay something for that, but
that's a, that's an outrageous amount
just to do that.
It's like paying to have your name not
listed in the phone book.
You know, why are you paying to have
your name not listed?
It's, it's so crazy.
Exactly.
Now, I'm just wondering, is there any
group, I mean, you, you seem to be
doing some wonderful work with your
ideas and what you know should be,
but I mean, you know, you're one
person out there.
Are you, I guess you're doing it
through the, uh, perhaps the 2600 or
whatever, but I'm just wondering, is
there any, you know, do you address
these issues in other ways, or is there
any group that's, you know, asking the
phone company why we're paying to be
non-listed?
Well, you know, I don't know of one
particular group that, uh, targets the
phone company other than, uh, other than
the magazine itself, uh, and we're not
really a consumer oriented, uh, you
know, we, we, we don't do this kind of
thing ordinarily, but, uh, there should
be, you know, if there is, I'd like to
hear about it.
Uh, I imagine any kind of better
business bureau or consumer, uh,
awareness group would, uh, would cover
this because I don't think they cover it
exclusively.
So if anyone has information on that,
call in and let us know.
That's a very good point though.
There should be a group like that.
Certainly.
And thank God for WBAI.
Okay.
Thanks for calling.
Okay.
Hold that.
Uh, 279-3400 is our telephone number.
Another thing, another ripoff, okay,
that, uh, that's always bothered me.
And again, this comes from being a
computer hacker.
This comes from being a phone freak and
playing around enough and realizing
what's, what's really going on.
Okay.
You're, you're on a pay phone, right?
You've put a quarter in.
Yeah.
Phone freaks put quarters in
occasionally just to see what
happens.
All right.
You're on the phone and the little
computer comes on and says, please
deposit five cents for the next one
minute or whatever.
Okay.
You don't have a nickel.
You have a quarter.
You put a quarter in and then a
minute later, it asks you for five
cents again.
Now you would think with all the
technology, I mean, the Hubble
space telescope is up there floating
around now.
We're talking about going to Mars and
all that kind of thing.
You would think that the phone
company, New York Telephone, would
be able to tell the difference
between a quarter and a nickel when
it asks you for more money.
And sure, they're able to tell the
difference because when you, um, when
you put in one of those coins, you
hear either one little beep for a
nickel, two beeps for a dime or five
beeps for a quarter.
Okay.
Those are the tones that tell the, uh,
the pay phone that tell the
mechanism what has been put in.
However, when it asks you for more
money for some reason, they don't
differentiate.
They treat everything as if it's a
nickel.
So if you put a quarter in, you've
just lost 20 cents.
Now there is a way around that.
Uh, it doesn't always work, but
occasionally an operator comes on and
demands the money in person.
And if you tell that operator, hey, I
put in a quarter there, usually they'll
do something about it.
They'll either have, send your quarter
back down to you or, uh, give you a
credit in some way.
A lot of, uh, calls are disconnected
though, by the computer.
The computer threatens to terminate, uh,
your call if you don't put more money
in and it usually carries out that
threat.
But that's just another instance.
And that's something that the phone
company has been getting away with for
years.
No one ever brings this up.
No one ever tries to change it because
nobody really is aware of it.
But how could they get away with
something like that?
You know, ask yourself that question.
How could they get away with literally
taking your money?
Something to, uh, to ponder there.
279-3400.
We're talking about the phone company,
about the rate increase that, um,
we'll double people's rates in New
York.
We'll charge you for information.
We'll charge you to call the operator.
I don't know of any other place in the
world where they charge you to call the
operator.
Scary times ahead.
Good morning.
Yes.
Is this BAI?
This is it.
Can I be on the air?
Yes, you are.
Go ahead.
Oh, hi.
How's it going?
Okay, how are you?
Sorry about that, Eric.
It's all right.
I'm your regular USB caller from Lake
Rock Harkama.
Oh.
And...
Not bad, eh?
No, I actually was surprised to hear
your voice on BAI.
So how can we help you?
Well, I was an old tap magazine reader.
Uh-huh.
I used to play around years ago when it
was a lot safer to do, so...
And when that operator gets on the phone...
Uh-huh.
...goes, can you please deposit another
five cents or twenty-five cents?
All you've got to do is walk around
your little portable Walkman with your
recorded tones.
Those little, uh...
What they're called is red box tones,
and yeah, those are the tones that tell you,
uh, what...
What denomination of money has been put in.
It's a bit more sophisticated today.
There's, uh, all kinds of mercury-release
kind of things, mechanisms inside the phone
that verify if a coin has actually been put in.
But a lot of people do get around it still.
Yep.
And I wanted to complain about that wire fee.
Uh-huh.
That thing has got to be one of the most...
One of the biggest rip-offs.
I think that it's really obnoxious.
Because I called up, I think, about four times
the question about what did the fee cover
and why I was getting charged it.
Uh-huh.
And the last time I called,
because I realized it was still on my line,
and I voted to get it off.
Because all my lines are exposed,
and if I ever have any problems,
I'll just replace the entire line.
Uh-huh. Of course.
But you know what she told me, the operator?
What's that?
Well, the business officer,
wherever I was talking to, she goes,
well, just to call up and have us check the line
from the computer, you're going to be charged.
That's not true.
That's definitely not true,
because I do that all the time.
You call repair service,
and they automatically check the line.
She said as long as they take the...
If I take the line charge off,
that I'll be charged to inquire about my line.
You should have gotten her name, or his name.
Really?
Because that's just not true.
What I always like to do with any kind of question
involving the phone company,
I always like to call up twice
and ask the exact same questions,
because I usually get completely different answers
to very simple things, you know?
One person, I was arguing about this.
This is when they were doing the telemarketing,
like really trying to encourage you
to buy their touch-tone service.
And I said, well, you know,
I can make a call now using my Pulse phone,
and then switch to tone,
and access my long-distance company,
or my bank-by-phone computer, or whatever.
And they said, no, that won't work.
You won't be able to access anything
if you don't pay for touch-tones.
And that's completely misleading,
completely false,
and a lot of people fell for it.
Yeah, I know.
I used to like the old switching system
when you just take a touch-tone phone
that you bought,
and, you know, put it on your line,
and it works.
It works because there's no real difference
between any lines,
and the only difference is
the ones that they install.
They went to a computer, you know?
Yeah, everything is computer-driven these days,
and they can tell you,
you know, they could say,
okay, we won't allow any threes, you know?
And they'll call you up one day,
and they'll say,
let's sell you the three key, sir.
Imagine how important the three is to you,
because if you can't use a three in daily life,
you won't be able to call any numbers
with a three in it.
So they can actually tell the computer
to ignore any threes coming from you.
You know, that's what we're talking about, folks.
Maybe that'll put it into perspective a little bit.
It's the same thing, you know?
They don't own the number.
They don't own the tones.
It's amazing, though.
Back to the idea of them,
like, it was very apropos that shows on,
and we're talking about this
because Ma Bell called me up tonight,
and they tried selling me $5 for, you know,
call waiting, three-way calling, you know,
their whole spiel.
They gave me their whole rundown.
And I just said, listen, it's not worth it.
And I said, that was it.
And it's just amazing,
because all they have to do
is spend about five minutes,
not even type it in,
and you're accessed.
Oh, yeah.
That's it.
You know, it's done in the course of that call.
There's not even another person
they have to involve.
Let me just clear up one thing.
I know you know the difference,
but a lot of folks might not.
When you refer to Ma Bell,
there is no real Ma Bell anymore.
When the phone company was broken up in 1984,
it was divided into many different companies.
AT&T is the long-distance company,
and that's the remnants of AT&T,
Long Lines, Ma Bell,
the really big Ma Bell.
What we have now are local companies,
and New York Telephone
is one of those local companies.
While you have lots of competition
on the long-distance front,
you've got AT&T,
you've got MCI, Sprint,
and you can keep going
with a lot of other ones, too.
There is only one local company,
and that's New York Telephone,
a subsidiary of 9X,
which comprises New England Telephone as well.
You don't have a choice,
and that's what's so unfair here.
If AT&T does something that's unfair,
at least you can jump to MCI.
But if New York Telephone
does something that's unfair,
you're screwed.
There's nothing you can do.
You're locked into whatever they say.
That's exactly it,
and that's why it's important
for folks to speak out
when something is unfair,
and I think there's a lot
that's unfair in these proposals.
Yeah.
Only, yeah,
the phone company is a joke
because they never,
they're just,
you know,
like that gentleman
I got on before
about his, um,
keeping his line,
the old wire,
or getting in the new jack,
and it's just that
they don't tell you.
They have no idea
on their own policies.
Uh-huh.
They're,
they just don't know
how to explain it
because they weren't
explained to them
to begin with.
And that's,
that's what they thrive upon.
Uh,
I know people that have
worked for phone companies
and, uh,
almost across the board,
they encourage you
not to ask questions,
to just accept
the company line.
If you ask too many questions,
you're obviously trouble.
They don't want people
to know very much
about the way
things really work.
They want to be able
to make their decisions
and just have you
carry out their orders
and, uh,
and inform customers
their biggest threat
as far as,
as far as they're concerned.
And, uh,
if you know anybody
in management
that still has
any human qualities,
I'm sure they'll
confirm this.
Oh, yeah, definitely.
Thanks very much
for calling.
I want to go to
some more calls.
So, uh,
279-3400
is our telephone number.
And, uh,
again,
let's give out the,
um,
let's give out the
hearing addresses
and times
and dates
and all that kind of thing.
Wednesday,
May 2nd,
there's going to be
a hearing
in front of the
Public Service Commission.
That's at the
Public Service Commission.
400 Broom Street,
the street where
they sweep things up.
Broom Street.
Uh,
hearing room A
on the 6th floor.
I'm sure you won't
have a problem
finding it.
It'll be the one
that's, uh,
mobbed.
I hope they,
there's enough room
on the 6th floor
for all these people
because, you know,
hopefully there'll be
a lot of people there.
There should be
because this is affecting
everybody in the city.
Everybody in the city,
everybody in the state.
So, uh,
not coming to this,
to this hearing
is, uh,
inexcusable
as far as I'm concerned.
I mean,
it's beginning at 1215,
but it's going to go on
for quite a long time
if everybody has their say,
like the Public Service said.
Also,
if you're out on Long Island,
uh,
Monday,
May 21st,
1 p.m.
and 7 p.m.
at the Hempstead Town Hall.
And,
if you want more information,
if you want to call
the Public Service Commission,
I suggest you get up
at 859 in the morning
and start your speed dialer going
because, uh,
the number seems to be busy
from 9 to 5,
and then after 5 o'clock
it just rings.
Uh,
it's 800-342-3377.
If you do get through,
you're the only person
in New York on that line.
Uh,
the number for the
Public Service Commission
in New York,
212-488-4141.
And we do have
a Buffalo number as well.
Uh,
I'm sorry,
an Albany number,
518-474-5527.
Public Service Commission,
they're the ones
that can, uh,
uh,
reject this
or approve this.
Shocking.
Yes,
that's the only word for it.
279-3400.
The program is
The Fifth Corner.
This is Emmanuel Goldstein,
and we're here
for another 16 minutes.
Good morning.
Hello.
Go ahead.
Um,
hello?
Speak.
How are you doing today?
I'm doing just fine.
How are you?
Very well.
Um,
I'd like to thank you
very much for
telling us all
about long lines
and AT&T.
I wrote that down
in my little book here.
Well,
that's good,
and I think everybody
should be keeping
a little book somewhere.
It's a little book.
It says,
Mobbell,
now there's AT&T.
See,
now I know
it was put into two parts,
but I think
you forgot to mention,
perhaps,
uh,
bypass.
Bypass?
Yes.
Uh,
explain.
You have a private switch,
and you have a satellite,
and you have a private switch.
Oh,
sure,
you can do that,
but,
but how many,
how many residential customers
are going to,
uh,
install,
uh,
a huge mechanism like that?
Yeah,
it can be done,
but nobody is doing it
on a mass scale.
It's only businesses.
A couple of businesses
are doing it,
they're bypassing
New York Telephone.
I'd like to know
how,
how they're making out
cost-wise,
uh,
but there is no alternative
for,
for most of us.
Because you can usually get,
I guess you can get a PBX
hooked up to a Sprinter
or something like that.
Or can you?
Uh,
a private branch exchange,
PBX,
uh,
you can,
you can have that hooked up
directly into,
uh,
another long-distance company's lines.
Yeah,
but I don't think you'll be able
to make local calls.
Uh,
well,
anyway,
I have something to read.
Uh,
okay,
make it fast.
It's in a local news week,
April 30th,
1990.
Well,
it is pretty fast.
This is the article about hackers.
Yeah,
we're going to talk about that
in two weeks.
Oh,
in two weeks?
Yeah,
I already heard about this.
I haven't read it yet myself,
but I've heard about it.
Well,
only the first paragraph,
basically.
I read the first paragraph
to be sort of a preview
as to what we're going to talk
about in two weeks.
Steve Jackson Games
is the kind of funky
little company
that no one pays
much attention to.
So imagine their surprise
when they were rated
by the Secret Service.
The Austin-based firm
produces adventure games,
vaguely nerdy pastime
most of us know,
if at all,
by fantasy role-playing games
like Dungeons & Dragons.
Lately,
company founder Steve Jackson
has been wondering
whose fantasy
he has wandered into.
On March 1st,
law enforcement officials
confiscated computers,
laser printers,
and some spare parts
from his offices.
Their target appeared
to be Cyberpunk,
a rule book
for a new Jackson game.
Named after the
science fiction subgenre
that conjures up
a forbidding
Orwellian future,
Cyberpunk describes
techniques for
hacking into computers
and encouraging players
to break into
fictitious machines.
Agents told
an incredible
Douglas Jackson
that the text
was a handbook
on computer crime.
Well, that'll give you
an indication
of where things stand
in the computer
hacker world.
Yeah, there's been
a lot of raids,
there's been a lot
of government action.
Well, then it goes on
to say that
while admitting
his company
wasn't a target,
they said two employees
with reputations
as hackers
were under investigation,
which still doesn't
explain why they
raided a video game company.
Well, you're going
to see raids
of all kinds
in the future,
but again,
that's what we're
going to talk about
in two weeks,
what the Secret Service
is doing to computer
hackers,
and I think it's
something that will
open up a lot of eyes.
Well, I thought
that would say quite...
Any other questions
on the matter at hand?
At the matter at hand?
No, not many.
Okay, well then
I have no choice
but to wish you
a good night.
Have a very nice night.
All right.
279-3400.
Good morning.
Hello.
How are you doing?
My hand.
I had to pull
the headphones off.
It's very confusing.
Yeah, it sure does,
especially when you're
on delay.
Yeah.
I saw you on TV
a couple weeks back.
Oh, what?
The CBS thing?
I guess that's what it was.
I was just kind of
flipping the dial
and they were talking
about hackers
and the guy
that went to jail.
Was it really early
in the morning?
I tell you,
I was on the West Coast
at the time.
Oh.
It wasn't early
in the morning out there.
As a matter of fact,
thinking on it,
I believe it was
in the afternoon,
maybe.
I really don't remember.
All I remember
is that I was watching
the TV
and they started
talking about that.
So I said,
well, let me watch
this for a minute.
And sure enough,
now I know
what you look like.
Well, don't spread
that around.
Hey, that's pretty cool.
So do you have
any questions
or comments
on this whole phone company?
One comment I had
on what you were
talking about,
of course,
the charge
is outrageous
and it's just
charging for information.
I don't just mean
like phone number
information,
but it's information
in general
that you have
to pay for.
In order to get
decent TV,
you have to pay
to get cable.
In order to get
to have
decent phone service
now,
you're going to
be starting to see
these exorbitant
charges for that.
You've noticed that,
haven't you?
We seem to be paying
for more things.
I mean,
we pay
something like
30 cents now,
35 cents
to find out
what time it is.
That's something
I never could understand
why people would do that.
I'll tell you, folks,
it's 11 minutes
to 1 o'clock now
and you don't have
to give me anything.
It's that simple.
Information should be
freely exchanged,
not sold.
Of course,
of course.
It's so incredible.
The bit about
the touch tones
and the pulse phones,
isn't it actually,
it's actually easier,
right,
for the phone company
to deal with
your touch tone phone
than it is,
don't they have to
like kind of,
isn't it kind of
a throwback
when somebody uses
a regular dial phone,
a pulse phone?
Oh, yeah.
I mean,
it slows things down
quite a bit
when you use
a touch tone phone.
Obviously,
the calls go through
faster for the phone company.
You can make more calls.
It only,
you know,
it's an advantage
to them.
Of course it is.
I mean,
though,
isn't there like,
at some point
in the phone company,
don't they have to
translate your pulses
into tones?
Oh, sure,
yeah,
they have to translate
them into MF tones,
which,
multi-frequency tones,
which,
again,
get sent out
over the long-distance network.
So in order to make
their job easier,
you have to pay them money.
Basically,
that's it.
They're doing it
because they can
get away with it.
That's really
what it boils down to.
I mean,
I've had people
inside the phone company
tell me that,
that,
yes,
it's because
nobody understands
what's really going on.
That's the only reason
they're able to get away
with it.
That's like that
Lily Tomlin character.
What was her name?
Edith, you know?
She said,
you know,
it's like,
you don't like it?
You know,
go get two tin cans
and a string.
That's basically it.
Again,
there's no competition
on the local front
and I think
it's about time
there was.
But what,
you know,
how,
how,
what,
why,
how can somebody
do that?
You know,
I,
I like,
I always liked
having,
having a CB radio,
you know,
because then you could,
you could have
local communications,
you know,
within a,
say,
a five mile radius,
you know,
with anybody else
who had a CB radio
at least.
Right.
You know,
but,
and that's absolutely free.
You plug it in
while you're paying
for the AC power
that it uses,
but that's negligible.
Uh-huh.
Well,
you know,
there's,
there's all kinds
of ways of,
of communicating
that are,
there are new ways
like computer bulletin boards
for instance
and that's why
a lot of people
are very frightened,
a lot of authorities
are very frightened
by,
by computer bulletin boards
because it gives you
the ease that,
uh,
you can't get on the,
on telephones.
Things like anonymity,
you know,
that's,
that's what everybody's
all concerned about now.
You can't be anonymous
on the telephone anymore.
You have to have
caller ID.
A lot of people
are very concerned
and afraid
of people being anonymous
and saying what's really
on their minds.
That's why computer
bulletin boards
are looked upon
as a real threat.
I wonder if anybody's
hacking into,
I know that the
ham radio operators,
they have packet networks
what they call,
right,
which is like
a radio
computer bulletin board
service that you,
if you have the radio,
the proper ham radio
equipment,
it's the same thing
as a,
as a regular
telephone BBS
except you're going
through a radio
and I'm wondering
if they get anybody
that hacks into
those systems.
Oh,
I'm sure they could
tell you stories.
I know,
uh,
I know there are people
there that have
told me some stories.
I don't know the exact
particulars though.
Really?
But yeah,
there's,
there's things going on
everywhere.
Oh,
interesting.
Okay,
thanks a lot.
It was interesting
seeing you on TV
and,
um,
I,
I agree with a lot
of your,
uh,
with actually with all
of the,
uh,
all of the,
uh,
your,
all the ideas
that you've put forth
and stuff
and,
and I hope you...
Well,
as long as you know
why you agree,
that's cool.
Continue to provide us
with this information
because it is important
stuff.
Okay,
thanks very much
for calling.
Bye.
279-3400.
Let's see if we can
get through these.
Good morning.
I don't know what it is,
but,
oh,
it's always on that line
I get those kind of calls.
Why is that?
I mean,
it's a random thing here,
you know,
all the calls show up
in the order that they're
received,
but it's always that line.
Good morning.
Yeah,
I,
I,
yeah,
I wanted to know
about the,
uh,
the interface.
Uh-huh.
That you were talking
about a minute ago.
What's that interface,
Jack?
Well,
the interface is basically
the,
the connection between
where a New York
telephone,
uh,
drops off its wire
and where your wire
begins.
Either the wire
to your telephone
or the wire
to your apartment.
It's basically,
the interface
is a dividing line.
They service everything
up to that point
and everything
past that point
is your responsibility.
So if,
if your phone doesn't work,
if there's something
wrong with your phone,
the solution is to
go over to the interface,
plug the phone in there
and see if it works.
If it doesn't work,
plug another phone in,
see if that works.
If that doesn't work,
then you can be
reasonably sure
that the problem
lies beyond the interface
and therefore
is New York Telephone's problem.
I mean,
but the,
the box looks different
than the,
than,
than the screw
mount box
that is there
that I have now?
Well,
it's,
it's,
it's slightly bigger.
It's got a little,
kind of a,
a door that,
that closes over it
so you have to lift it up
and,
and plug the phone in
and then it sort of
snaps down on top
of the wire.
Oh,
so that's like
a modular connection?
It's like,
yeah,
it's a modular connection
except it has a little
lever or door
or something over it.
I don't know
what you call that thing.
Okay,
but it's no big deal.
I mean,
I don't have to change
to that,
no?
It's to your advantage
to have that
and I believe,
and I'm not certain
about this,
I still haven't
had it confirmed,
but I believe
the phone company
is required
to switch those over
at the,
at the point,
it could be in your
basement,
in your garage,
in,
you know,
in your closet.
I don't know
exactly where
that point of,
of where the phone
company comes in is.
Oh,
now,
this wire charge,
I received a paper
too about this wire charge.
Do you recommend
that you should
take them
on it or not?
I see no advantage
to that whatsoever.
I've,
I've thought about this
for,
for quite some time
and I just,
basically what you're saying
is if something goes wrong
with a wire inside your wall,
now,
what could go wrong
with a wire inside your wall
unless somebody,
you know,
throws something
into the wall
and,
in my case,
it's just,
it wasn't in the wall
but it was by accident.
So,
in fact,
that day I had some guests
over and we were on
to use the telephone
and what I did
since the wires
have four wires,
I just put,
I just,
it's a term
and I put the other two
and it worked fantastic.
Uh-huh.
It was no problem.
But about modems
and computers,
are you supposed
to report the modem
that you have
on the line
or no?
Oh,
they,
they sometimes
ask you to do that
but I,
I don't recommend
you telling them
anything that's on your line
for the reason
being that
they'll,
they'll try to blame
something that's their fault
on your equipment.
Right.
I've had,
I've had phone company
repair people say,
well,
do you have a computer?
Well,
that's it then.
That's what's causing
the hum on your line
is your computer
or,
you know,
a fax machine.
You know,
you have a fax machine
anywhere in your house?
Okay,
well,
that's causing
all the problems
on your phone lines.
You know,
they'll always try to
pick something like that.
Not to get involved
in fixing anything.
That's the point,
right?
Uh-huh.
I mean,
they'll say,
they'll even ask you
if you have a phone.
Well,
that's the problem.
That's,
yeah.
Well,
sometimes it is the problem.
You have to,
you know,
figure it out first
before you call them.
And about this magazine
or this 26,
how can I subscribe
or call or whatever?
Well,
I'll give you the address.
We don't give prices out,
but I'll give you the address.
I'll give you the phone number too.
It's 2600.
It's at P.O. Box 752
and that's Middle Island,
two words,
New York,
11953
and the phone number
is 516-751-2600.
Let me get the phone number
because that's easier.
What,
516?
516-751-2600
and that gives out
pretty much all the information
you need.
Basically,
it's run by hackers,
but there's a lot,
a lot of emphasis lately
on consumer education
because there seems to be
a lot more in the way
of ripoffs
to consumers
from the phone companies,
from the many phone companies,
whether it's
the 900 numbers
or the sex lines
or touchstone fees,
rate increases.
It's just all kinds of things
that people have to be aware of.
And you were talking
about the touchstone,
so because I've called
a couple of companies
and then the recording
comes on
and they say,
if you want to speak
to Joe Blow,
press this line
and the other one,
and then,
or stay on the line
if you have Rory,
but in one instance
or two instances,
they just hung up on me
because I didn't,
I don't have a touchstone.
There's a lot of,
there's a lot of discrimination
against people
that don't have touchstones
these days, yes.
Most people have touchstone,
is that the point?
Well, most people
are certainly encouraged
to get touchstone
if they don't have it already.
There's a lot of people
that don't have touchstones
and they should be serviced
just as well as people
that do have touchstones
and the people
who do have touchstones
shouldn't be charged
for that luxury
because it's really
not a luxury anymore.
Okay,
and how much
is touchstone
or serviced?
Well,
they'll try to charge you,
they'll charge you
an installation fee
on top of everything else
which I can't
for the life of me
figure out.
They're not installing
a damn thing.
Yeah,
I heard you said
a couple of strokes on it.
Well,
they'll charge you
about $2 a month
per phone line
for residences
and about $5 a month
for businesses
and I just,
I would like to see
one big company
in New York City
say,
hey,
$5 a line
for something
that really doesn't exist.
That's a lot of money
per year
to waste.
You know,
if IBM or somebody
suddenly realized
how much they were paying.
Well,
they're part of the company
but I mean,
how much is the installation
supposed to be?
Do you know?
It can range.
You know,
it depends on what
they have to do.
It can be like $15
or anything.
It's not that low.
No,
I'm afraid it's not.
And then this last thing
about having your,
charging you
for not registering
your phone number.
They charge you
for not being listed
which is something
that they've always done
and I can't understand
what the reason is for
because again,
it's just a simple
yes-no question
and it's something
that doesn't come out.
It's one of many things,
folks.
One of many things.
Well,
that's going to pretty much
do it for us here tonight.
And the time is just about
two minutes to one o'clock.
We've had a lot of feedback,
a lot of interest
and that's what's important here.
Let's carry that interest
along to the PSC on Monday.
Actually,
I'm sorry,
Wednesday,
May 2nd,
1215,
here in room A,
400 Broom Street
on the sixth floor
or call up
212-488-4141
800-342-3377.
Become educated.
Become aware.
Express yourself.
It's real important, folks.
This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
I'll be back in two weeks
talking about computer hackers
and the Secret Service.
See you then.
All you got to do now
is purchasing.
I'm expressing
with my full capabilities
and now I'm living
in correctional facilities
because some don't agree
with how I do this.
I get straight
and meditate like a Buddhist.
I'm dropping flavor.
My behavior is hereditary,
but my technique
is very necessary.
Blame it on Ice Cube
because it's etiquette funky
when you got a subject
and a predicate
added on a dope beak
and it'll make you think
some suckers just tickle me
pink to my stomach
because they don't flow
like this one.
You know what?
I won't hesitate
to this one or two
before I'm through
so don't try to sing
this song drop science.
Well, I'm dropping English
even if yeller
makes it acapella.
I still express you
I don't smoke weed or sats
because it's known
to give a brother brain damage
and brain damage
on the mic
don't manage nothing
but making a sucker
and you equal
don't be another sequel
Express yourself
Do it, yeah
Express yourself
I'll do it
Ice Cube
It's not for the pop chart
So where should a brother
like you
start expressing yourself
my boy
and show you how
your track
Drop English
right about now
Getting back to the PG
That's programmed
And it's easy
Dre is back
New Jackson
Man Hollow
Expressing the subject
because they like
to follow the words
The style, the trend
The records are spinning
Again and again and again
Yo, you're on the other end
Watch your brother blend
Dope rhymes
But no help
There's no fessing
or guessing
while I'm expressing myself
It's crazy to see
people feed
what society wants
them to be
But not me
Roofless
Is the way to go
They know
Others say rhymes
which fail to be original
Or they kill
where the hip-hop starts
Forget about the ghetto
The rap for the pop charts
Though some musicians
Cuss at home
They scared to use
profanity
When up on the microphone
Yeah, they want reality
But you hear none
They'd rather exaggerate
a little fiction
Some say no to drugs
and take a stand
But after the show
They go looking
for the dope man
Or they band my group
from the radio
Here in WA
And say hell no
But you know
it ain't all about wealth
As long as you make
a note to
Express yourself
Do it good
Express yourself
Don't do it
A lyricist
Yo Dre is the name for
To make something dope
on a record
That's what he came for
Kicking reality
Overstand itself
But it's important
that you keep it in mind too
Express yourself
From the heart
Cause if you wanna start
to move up the chart
Then expression
is a big part of it
You ain't efficient
when you flow
You ain't swift
Moving like a tortoise
Full of rigor mortis
There's a little bit
more to show
I got rhymes in my mind
Embedded like an embryo
Or a lesson
All of them expression
And if you start fessing
I got a Smith & Wesson
for you
I might ignore your record
Because it has no bottom
I get loose
In the summer
Winter's bringing order
It's Dre on the mic
Getting physical
Doing the job
At WA
It's the lynch mob
It's a macabre
But you know
you need this
And they're not
Just doing
Just like a fetus
Or a tumor
Well here's the rumor
Dre's in the neighborhood
And he's up to no good
When I start expressing myself
Yella slam me
Cause if I stay funky
Like this
I'm doing damage
Now I'ma be too hype
And need a straight jacket
I got knowledge
And other suckers lack it
So when you see Dre
A DJ on the mic
Ask what it's like
It's like we're getting
Hyped tonight
Cause if I strike
It ain't for your good help
But I won't strike
If you just
Spread the sound
Do it good
Spread the sound
I'll do it
Break the sound
Break the sound
Break the sound
Break the sound
Break the sound
I'll do it
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Kind of a sneering thanks there, didn't you think?
Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do.
There's a church downtown, opens every day at lunchtime.
People from the street are standing in the soup line.
Round the end of the month when their money's getting thin,
there's a hundred or more that are welcomed in.
No, it's not Ethiopia.
But this isn't We Are The World.
We are the world.