On Monday, February 25th, at 9 p.m.,
Soundscapes, Explorations in Radio, Sound, and Music
presents works from New American Radio.
Tune in and hear samples of both local and international radio art.
That's Monday, February 25th, at 9 p.m.,
on WBAI in New York City.
And this is WBAI New York.
Stay tuned for Talkback.
Talkback.
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To be continued...
Can you hear them crying in the rubble of Peru?
I can still see people dying now who takes the blame
The numbers are different, the crime is still the same
From the graves of Belsen where the innocent were burned
To the genocide in Babe Ruth
Israel was nothing but...
Eh-o, eh-o, eh-o, eh-o, eh-o, eh-o, eh-o
They can still hear people crying
Now who takes the blame?
The numbers are different
The kindness still will say
Born to settle arguments
The order of the boot
From the graves of Belsen
To the ruins of Beirut
I can still see people dying
Now who takes the blame?
The numbers are different
The crime is still the same
Eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo
Eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo
Eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo
Eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo
Eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo
Eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo
Eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo, eyo
The track is called War Crimes, and it comes from Special A.K.A. here on WBAI, War Crimes.
The order of the day, and things of that effect.
Good afternoon, this is Emanuel Goldstein on Talkback, filling in for Maliki McCord today, who I understand will be back next Monday.
And we'll be talking about the events of the day, as we usually do on this time slot.
Taking your phone calls, and seeing what BAI listeners have on their minds.
I don't know about you, but gosh darn it, I am just so relieved that this war has started.
I feel so much more secure now, don't you?
I mean, they're out there, they're bringing this to a swift and speedy conclusion.
All in the interest of democracy, and those things that we live and breathe for.
I feel so much better now, that everything is underway, and there's shooting, and bombs, and rockets, and things like that going off.
Wow.
I don't know about you, but I'm having a bit of difficulty here.
Over the last few weeks, it's been a sobering experience.
I think it's sobering for anybody that sits back and thinks a little too much.
And I've been guilty of that in the past.
I also have trouble, you know, in crowds, and mobs, and things like that.
And always, whenever everybody says something is black, I say it's white.
Et cetera.
You know what I mean?
You know where you sort of don't want to go along with the crowd?
Well, no matter what the crowd is saying, in this particular case, though, what the crowd is saying, I think, is pretty damn scary.
I've never experienced this before.
I know there are a lot of people around that have experienced this, and they're certainly welcome to give their views on this.
But I've never seen a country this fixated with war before.
And, you know, I always sort of thought that it wasn't possible.
You know, in my naive little way, I figured that all this talk of peace that we had since the Vietnam War would have a lasting effect.
And we wouldn't plunge back into something.
Well, guess what?
We plunge back into something anyway.
Of course, it's all for a good cause.
It's for peace and freedom and democracy and, you know, putting down a dictator.
But it's war.
You know?
You know what war is?
I don't think very many of us do know what war is.
How many people in this country have had to worry about having their homes blown up, about having mines go off in front of you, streets blown away, wondering if your family will live through the coming week?
We're not talking about people that we send overseas.
You know, we send them overseas and we say, good luck.
Come back soon.
We'll tie a yellow ribbon around the tree for you.
But we don't know what living through war is like.
And I think it's the utmost in cowardice to wave flags and tie ribbons and say, hey, we're behind you 100%.
And then continue to live our peaceful lives and not have any idea what is really going on.
It's the utmost in cowardice, I believe, because if you knew, and I don't know, so don't think that I do.
I don't know, but I have an idea what it must be like.
If you don't know what it's like to go through a war, not as a soldier, but as a civilian, because civilians, believe it or not, still make up the majority of people in the world.
If you don't know what it's like to go through it as a civilian, then how can you speak intelligently of what war is?
Yeah, militarily. Militarily, some of what Bush says makes sense, you know?
We're going to go in there, we're going to drive these people out, and we're going to establish a force here and get all the bad ones out and put all the good ones in.
Okay, that would be great. That would be wonderful if there was nothing but military people in the world.
You know, just soldiers and no civilians, but there's so many civilians spread out no matter where you go, even in the desert.
And while I have nothing but sympathy for people cowering in bomb shelters in Israel, waiting for the Scud missiles to arrive, let's get real.
How many people in Israel have been killed? Four? Four people have been killed in Israel?
How many people in Baghdad have died? We don't know. And we don't care.
That's the incredible thing. We do not care because for some reason, for some reason the civilians of Baghdad are less than the civilians of Tel Aviv.
Why is that? What makes them less? What makes an Arab less than an Israeli?
Explain it to me. Maybe I'm just stupid. Maybe I don't understand these things.
But I see nothing but hypocrisy here. I see hatred being bred into us.
I mean, these are questions we should be asking. We should be demanding to know, well, what are we doing?
Because our tax money is going to kill people.
That's always what happens in a war.
No matter what they say on CNN, no matter what they report on the evening news, people are dying.
We still don't know how many people died in Panama.
We may never find out because it's not exactly in everyone's interest to find out these things.
So, yes, I'm having a bit of difficulty over the last couple of weeks.
You know, I'm looking at this from an individual point of view.
I'm looking at it from my own perspective.
While I've been to rallies and demonstrations and things like that,
I still consider myself to be an individual person,
and I don't buy into anything without thinking about it first.
And that's why I hesitate to call myself a particular type of person,
be it Republican, Democrat, what have you.
And I just wish more people would think that what they have to say matters
instead of just doing what everyone else is doing.
You know, I see it on both sides, but the vast majority right now, of course, is on the pro-war side.
And just as an example of this, this last weekend, the one that just went by,
I took a trip down to Washington, D.C. by the train.
And you know how trains are.
They get kind of boring after a while.
There's not much to do.
Walk up and down a few times.
So you look out the window.
I looked out the window, and I saw America going by.
And I said, gee, look at all those flags.
Look at all those yellow ribbons.
I'm going to play a little game here.
I'm going to see if I can hold my breath to the point of nearly passing out
until I see a flag or a yellow ribbon.
So you understand the premise of this.
And perhaps those of you in cars right now can play this game, too.
And I can say this knowing that I won't cause any accidents
if people do decide to hold their breath right now as they're driving.
Just take a deep, you know, inhale deeply.
Go on.
And hold that breath until you see, either on a car, on a house, on a lamppost, tree, telephone pole,
a flag, or a yellow ribbon.
Now, if anybody is still holding their breath, I will be amazingly surprised.
But I don't think anybody is still holding their breath.
They're everywhere.
Flags, yellow ribbons are everywhere.
Which is okay, you know, it doesn't bother me to see flags and yellow ribbons,
but it's the, it's that pressure that comes with that sentiment, you know?
The pressure that says, support our troops, or you're not for us.
You don't belong here.
I can't tell you how many people I have heard say words to the effect of,
well, if you don't like this country, why don't you leave?
And it's, it's, it's the most incredible statement, you know,
coming in a, in a democracy where you're supposed to,
you have the obligation to speak out and to question
and to make up your own individual mind.
You know, you would not expect that in this kind of country,
but yet that's the thing I hear the most.
And I say back to them, I don't like the way things are going,
but I'm not going to leave, I'm going to stay.
And I'm going to change things, or I'm going to do my best to change things.
So, keep that in mind as a slogan.
America, love it or change it.
Our telephone number is 212-279-3400.
You know, I'd like for people today, if possible,
if you can do this for me, it's a bit of a favor.
Being an anti-war person these days is not a pleasant thing.
It's not pleasant at all, because
in the press you're constantly belittled,
constantly being faced with, you know, self-doubts.
There's nobody else out there, nobody else at all
thinks the way you do.
There must be something wrong with you, right?
So if anybody out there can
bring me over to the other side,
I'm sure I'll be a happier person when I arrive there.
When I can join everybody else.
Call me, convince me that I'm wrong.
That's what I want to hear.
And if at the end of the time
we have together today,
I've moved over to the other side,
then that's just the way things are.
But if not, I'll still be miserable,
and so will everybody else that agrees with me.
How many of you have been to anti-war rallies?
Well, there's one going on in about 15 minutes,
and that's in Times Square.
And this is the Coalition to Stop U.S. Intervention
in the Mideast, Middle East rather,
42nd Street and Broadway that begins at 5 o'clock.
Be interesting to see how many people show up.
But for those of you that haven't gone to anti-war rallies,
I'd like to know why.
If you don't believe in the war,
if you have any doubts about the war,
why not show up?
Why not talk about it with people?
I went to a pro-war rally a couple of weeks ago.
That's right, I went to one.
Because you have to go to those as well.
You can't just go to the anti-war rallies.
You have to go to the pro-war rallies.
Now, I didn't go unarmed to this pro-war rally.
I came with a sign.
And it was the day that we bombed the bomb shelter
with all the civilians inside.
Now, I'm not even going to get into
whether or not it was military,
whether it was civilian.
The fact of the matter is,
there were hundreds of women and children in the thing.
That is a fact.
That is a fact.
And that's something that we did.
We killed hundreds of women and children.
Now, you can say,
oh, but it was to drive the dictator Saddam out.
And I say again,
we killed hundreds of women and children.
Period.
And that is wrong.
That's something that we should be thinking about.
And I came to this demonstration with a sign
hastily constructed that day
that just said on kind of like a newspaper headline,
U.S. planes drop bombs on women and children,
killing hundreds.
And people looked at it,
and they looked away.
Nobody really said anything to me.
Just kind of a sobering moment
when they looked at that sign.
And I found other people, too,
that had, on their own volition,
shown up at this war rally
with peace signs.
And before you know it,
the numbers were equal.
There were just as many
peace ralliers
as there were war ralliers.
And I can't describe the feeling
that you get
when you, uh,
when you unite
like that.
And in a way,
that takes guts, you know,
that takes courage
to stand up to
what could be a real threat
to your physical being.
And in fact, uh,
quite a few
people on the pro-war side
did express urges
to, uh,
to use violent force
right there.
So,
fighting a war
takes many forms.
You don't have to be a soldier
to fight in a war.
Something else to keep in mind.
Okay,
we're going to, uh,
move over
to the telephones
and see what, uh,
what New York thinks today.
212-279-3400.
Program is Talk Back.
We're talking about war
and we're going to continue
talking about war
until
you get sick of it
or until it goes away.
I choose the latter.
Good afternoon.
Hi.
How you doing?
I'm thinking about a
Middle East butcher
who invaded
a neighboring country,
slaughtered thousands
of his own citizens,
and attacked Israel.
You know who I'm thinking of?
Hafez al-Assad.
Bush's buddy.
You know,
one thing that really
troubles me about this war
is that,
by and large,
I'm hearing on Christian radio
this gung-ho
God and country
that somehow
we are fighting
a righteous,
just war
and that we are doing
the righteous will
of God
and it's
blasphemy
in my opinion.
But the reason why
I called,
I wanted to direct
your attention,
to this letter
that,
a letter to the editor
that appeared
in today's
Star Ledger.
It's one of
500,000 letters
sent by the
Republican National
Committee
to papers
around the country
and it's the
exact same letter
and they sent it
to different people
and they get them
to sign their name
to it
and send the letter
into the papers.
and it's a very
anti-peace,
reactionary letter
that if
we're against
the war
that we're
supporting
Saddam Hussein
and it comes
from the
Republican National
Committee
which was just
taken over
by some
new person
who's
one of the
first things
he did
when he took
over the
committee
was to
try to
divide
the war
along
party lines
in Washington
and it's
so obvious
what's
happening here
you know
I have just
many many
thoughts
and I don't
know
you know
I'm just
upset about it
because it's
so hypocritical
that it's
not only
women and
children
but it's
old men
it's
civilians
and it's
well into
the tens
of thousands
of Iraqi
children of
God
because we're
all God's
children
equally
who are
being bombed
for oil
for nothing
else
but oil
that's
another point
that I keep
coming back
to
why are we
there
we're not
there for
for democracy
we're not
there
for freedom
it's not
freedom
it's oil
you're right
it's oil
sure
that's what
it comes
down to
and I
think the
majority
of Americans
I heard a
poll on the
radio this
morning
a majority
of Americans
do believe
that it is
oil
we're there
for it
but a majority
also feel
that oil
is just as
good a reason
as any
to fight
it's our
way of life
you see
that we're
protecting
yeah it's
very very
sad
but I
what I
see different
in this
war
is this
righteous
element
this
well
there's always
been the
militaristic
righteous
element
but now
it's taken
it's taken
on a
religious
flavor
you know
even the
quoting
of scripture
the
misapplication
of certain
prophecies
because they
find coincidental
words and
phrases
and then apply
it to what's
going on
today
and I've
even heard
Pat
Robertson
speak
and I
do like
many things
that he
says
but I've
heard him
talk about
prophecy
and it's
very dangerous
if people
are threatening
to get into
power who
are going to
look into
scriptures
and think
that we
have some
divine
place in
prophecy
as agents
of God
it's very
very dangerous
and it's also
kind of reminiscent
of what we
accuse people
in the
Mideast
of doing
yeah
you know
religious
elitry
and I've
been reading
the Bible
for several
years
the thing
that is
closest to
the heart
of God
is the
hungry
starving
you know
destitute
sick
person
whether it's
you know
a child
or whatever
you know
and you
know
God is
not on
our side
God is
on the
side
of the
victims
whether
they're
in Kuwait
or whether
now
they're
in Iraq
these are
people who
are not
only dying
but people
who are
crippled
who are
suffering
who are
bleeding
and there's
pestilence
there
there's
diseases
I've heard
cholera's
happening
there
and this
is all
because of
oil
and I'm
just disgusted
and I don't
know what
to do
because
you know
I'm just
going to
keep on
listening
and we
can be
tactful
and we
love our
country
and we
hate to
see our
flag
being turned
into some
cheap
economic
symbol
I'm upset
I have to
get off
now
okay
thanks for
calling
I think
he
illustrated
very well
what
feelings
people
are
getting
these
days
yeah
you do
get
very
upset
religious
zealotry
it's an
ugly thing
no matter
what side
you're on
and
you know
if you
speak about
what side
God is
on
well take
a look at
somebody like
Mother Teresa
someone who
helps the
poor
and doesn't
think about
nationality
religion
who is
right and
who is
wrong
I'd like to
know her
feelings on
this war
if any
war
that has
this kind
of destruction
is a
just war
I'd like
to know
good afternoon
hello
go ahead
thanks
yeah
I'm just
calling to
say well
the last
call was
so right
on the
money on
that
it's
pretty sad
what's
going on
and
talking about
the religious
aspect
and everything
I've read
a
or at
least
reading
a book
by
this author
Zachariah
Sitchin
concerning
that area
of the
world
and how
6,000 years
ago
civilization
was there
but I
haven't
heard anyone
speak about
that particular
history
of the
country
about
Sumerians
I was
wondering if
you heard
anything about
that
I haven't
myself
as far as
you talk about
the history
of the region
right
6,000 years
ago
well I've
got the
little
thing
that
was
in
the
times
today
I
don't
think
that's
really
anything
that we
didn't
already
know
though
as far
as
the origins
of Kuwait
the origins
of Iraq
right
well that's
what I was
wondering
because
this author
the book
is called
Genesis
Revisited
and this
author
says that
actually part
of the reason
about Hussein
was that he
was going to
apparently launch
his own
satellites
and that was
one of the
reasons why
people wanted
to deal with
him in such
a way
so violently
I assume
these are
military
satellites
not
cable TV
or anything
like that
probably
well
obviously
we're
we're
concerned
about
Saddam Hussein
but we
weren't so
concerned
a year ago
we're not
so concerned
today about
Assad
we're not
so concerned
about all
the other
dictators
of the
world
rightist
ones
mostly
what does
it take
what does
it take
to make
us suddenly
turn someone
into
number one
enemy
it seems
to be
repeated
over and
over
right
well
who knows
maybe this
time will
be the
time that
we all
on a global
aspect anyway
are able to
suffer from
the consequences
of this
violence
well do you
think this
whole situation
could have been
solved non-militarily
and if so
how
well
absolutely
I mean
if people
can talk
people can
come to
agreement
I mean
if you can
sit across
the table
from someone
you've got to
respect that
person
but
also
I guess
like someone
said on another
program I heard
before
basically
people are
just not
interested in
talking
so it's like
you just do
what I want
you to do
and that's it
and that
attitude
actually
is suicidal
in a way
I think
because we're
all going to
suffer from it
and try
try bringing
that down
to day
to day
life
you know
someone
like you
say
doesn't do
what you
want them
to do
is using
force to
make them
do that
is that
what we're
taught
it's kind
of a
conflict
in the
things we're
taught here
absolutely
not
like you
said
just one
wrong
doesn't
merit
another
person
or country
doing the
same wrong
because in
the end
we're all
going to
lose
in the
bigger picture
right
thanks so
much for
calling sir
sure
all right
212-279-3400
is our
telephone number
if you get a
busy signal
just hit the
speed dial
button and
wait till
you get
through
you know
I've been
reading the
reports saying
how incredibly
things are
going you know
how
no Americans
are being
killed
I mean
only about
five Americans
are being
killed
we've got
20,000
prisoners of
war already
we're doing
incredibly well
in this war
here
that makes it
all the more
difficult
you know
to
try to
try to
figure it
all out
I mean
first of all
why
are we so
surprised at
the way
things are
going
we've been
saying all
along that
a ground
war in the
Gulf
would result
in many
casualties
and so
far we
have
less than
ten
why is
that
were the
Iraqis
really as
well equipped
as we
said they
were
I mean
they're
sending
these
huge
lumbering
scud
missiles
you know
over
to Israel
and it's
you know
become
such a
thing that
no one
even cares
about
anymore
it's like
oh look
another scud
missile
lands in the
middle of the
desert
doesn't hurt
anybody
and
20,000
prisoners of
war
they're
throwing down
their arms
and running
into our
grasp
so
how do we
how do we
interpret this
do they
simply not
pose as much
of a military
threat as we
said they did
and if that
is true
did we
really not
know this
or did we
seek to
simply play
it up so
we could go
in there with
all this force
and all this
public support
and in the
end simply
overrun a
country that
was no match
for us to
begin with
or is
there something
around the
corner waiting
for us
that's going
to make us
regret ever
having gotten
involved in
this
what's your
opinion
good afternoon
good afternoon
that the
war is a
terrible thing
certainly no
one can
argue and
that we're
all going to
die is another
foregone conclusion
that sometime
in our lives
you know
now the thing
I get to is
you know this
idea of freedom
of speech in
this country
and all the
freedoms
today we don't
have as many
newspapers so
we sort of
shake a little
because of that
although we
know that the
newspapers have
censorship and
points of view
and so on
but I'm
thinking that
apropos of
the nature
of society
the way
people are
you know you
were talking
about the
people with
the ribbons
and the
people who
are pro-war
and then the
people who
are anti-war
it's almost as
if even though
we have this
freedom sense
of being able
to express
your opinion
nevertheless
it's like
you're all right
if you are
amongst your
friends and
say what you
have to say
and then you
feel you have
a community
but if you
are amongst
others
it's almost
inevitable that
you cannot
change their
viewpoints
they feel so
strongly
there's like
the emotional
rush of
insulin or
whatever it is
so it's almost
as if it reminds
me of in the
old days when
Malcolm X was
talking and
there was the
talk of certain
states that would
be given over to
the Afro-American
people you know
what I'm saying
hello
yeah I'm
listening I'm
thinking that it's
almost as if even
though we all
believe in the
united states of
freedom of speech
and freedom of
press and so
forth and freedom
of religious you
know orientation
it's almost as if
we would be the
united states of
america but over
here in this area
would be the people
or the pro wars
and then in this
area of the united
states and that
way because I
mean we live in
this quote democracy
and we have this
system where
voting whoever has
that upper percentage
of over 50% or
the larger percentage
those are the people
who have the power
and they are like
they've been delegated
to control all of
the people so we
really live in what
amounts to we're
trying to be rational
in an irrational
world if you'll
forgive me do you
see my point yes I
wish you'd argue with
me because I don't
like to think that
it's true I mean I
wish a reason could
triumph I read
saddam hussein's
speech about how
he said this
happened and so he
reacted this way and
then this happened and
he reacted this way
and he himself
apparently even though
he's accused of being
a fascist and has
killed many people I
guess or been
responsible nevertheless
he feels that he's
like doing what you
would call the
rightest thing for you
might say his
delegation you see
well I believe that
he honestly feels
that he's right and
there's a way to deal
with people that that
you completely disagree
with who think they're
100% right and George
Bush has certainly not
dealt with him in that
way he's given him
ultimatum after
ultimatum which is the
one thing that I think
everybody knows that
Saddam Hussein does not
deal well with is
ultimatums you know
a recommendation I made
but I'm a little voice I
said Mandela should have
been brought in to sort
of try to at least
come up with
alternatives you know
what I mean yeah but
that's you know largely
a symbolic thing I
don't think we could
come up with a solution
rather than that this
thing would have
happened because it was
almost inevitable that's
another thing that I
see it's almost as if
these things just must
happen well what do
you mean when you say
just must happen you
saying that nothing
was going to prevent
it no chance of it
being any other way
you know I mean in
other words let me
let me throw this out
to you because I've
been trying to get an
answer I believe that
George Bush and his
brain trust if I can
use that term I know
it pertains to FDR and
so on but his people
who are advising him are
not looking at the
present or the past
exactly but rather the
future in other words
they have like
characterized if this
force is happening and
that happens and this
happens and that
happens there will be
this one-sixth or
one-fifth of the world
that will be under the
sway of a of a pan
Arab pan-Islamic world
and I'm not saying that
there aren't millions of
Muslims who are like
kind and gentle people
in fact I feel badly I
won't be able to see the
mosques that have been
blown up and meet the
people who have been
destroyed for that matter
but the point is that I
think that they are
playing power politics
but not on the basis of
even although the past
does influence the
present and then the
future it is the sense of
the future that they are
like like even this
religious thing the
rapture and all all that
plays into like the
future you know in other
words if Saddam Hussein got
an atomic bomb for instance
can you answer me are we
going to invade Iraq are we
going to go and find out
Saddam Hussein and bring
him to the bar of justice
well that's execute him
for war crimes and things
like that or that's a
very interesting question
and it brings back
memories it brings back
memories honest enough to
admit that W what is it
NYC you know NPR they did
have somebody discussing it
a little but I don't think
I mean I don't even know
where we're going to stop
well that's it's a very
good very good question
now as far as as far as
invading Iraq and getting
Saddam Hussein and trying
him it reminds me of
nothing more than the whole
Noriega fiasco of last year
and we invaded Panama to get
one man are we now going to
invade Iraq to get one man
that's what we're going to
discuss as soon as as soon as
we return here on talkback the
phone number is 212-279-3400
and we'll be right back
stop the US war more than
20,000 dead and the genocide
continues with every hour of
the bombing raise the cry no
more killing in our name come
to an emergency demonstration
this Monday February 25th 5 p.m.
at the Times Square recruiting
station 43rd Street and Broadway
in Manhattan this has been a
public service on behalf of the
coalition to stop US
intervention in the Middle
East for more information
call 777-1246 that's 777-1246
no more genocide in our name
and that's going on right now
the facts oh y'all because
you're watching that garbage
before I get to that
manningly strawberry thing
nobody has asked about what the
grievances of the black community
is on these television programs
so you're a philosopher it's in my
brain now always check up after me
because now it's your turn to talk
back mondays through thursdays at
4 30 p.m. turn off your set tune to
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get ready to talk back weekdays at
4 30 only on listener supported
commercial free wba ifm and this is
talk back Emmanuel Goldstein here and
we will return to the phone calls in
just a moment I wanted to play one
thing for you that we got off the
short wave today this is from the
bbc and it kind of describes a bit of
what we're talking about today over
confidence with the American public
actually it's what we're going to be
discussing we're sort of touching
upon it now but let's listen to what
they have to say this was monitored
about about two and a half hours ago
and the bbc our phone number is 212-279-3400
you're listening to the bbc world
service speaking at the white house a
short while ago president bush said
the operation to liberate kuwait was
on course and on schedule he said the
allies had the initiative and intended
to keep it but he said they must guard
against euphoria as there were battles
yet to come the president is receiving
regular updates on the progress of the
war and is said to be gratified by the
pace and effectiveness of the operation
officials in Washington have however
begun to dampen expectations about a
quick end to the conflict from
Washington our correspondent Diana Goodman
although the initial news blackout
announced by the Pentagon has been
relaxed enough to allow some television
film of the ground offensive to be
broadcast here none of it so far has
shown the allied troops engaged in
close combat that fact coupled with the
upbeat official assessments given
about the first day of the fighting has
led to a surge in public confidence that
the war may soon be over but officials
are now moving to reduce those
expectations stressing that the allies
have not yet taken on the Republican
Guard and that the US forces could still
suffer heavy casualties the White House
spokesman Marlon Fitzwater said that
although President Bush was proud of the
way the operation was going he still
had the anxiety that went with war right
through the conflict in the Gulf the
Bush administration has been trying to
strike a careful balance in maintaining
public confidence that US military might
will prevail while at the same time
preparing the American people for any
increase in the number of dead and
wounded the note of caution being
introduced indicates that the White House
believes the scales may be tipping too far
on the side of confidence and the message
now going out is that the war is not yet
won a commentary on Moscow radio said the
Americans have begun the ground offensive
in haste an indication that they could be
planning to dominate the region the radio
said an Iraqi withdrawal could have been
achieved on the basis of the Soviet plan
without launching a large-scale war and
that was from the BBC earlier today talking
about the overconfidence that's spreading
around the nation sort of reminiscent of
what happened right after the air war began
and it's funny when when the government has to
tell the press and the people calm down
things aren't that good I don't know that
makes me worry that makes me worry quite a bit
I'd also like to hear what what people are
seeing in various bits of the media of
course we all watch NBC CBS ABC and we all
get upset when we realize that they're not
covering certain aspects of it and I've
heard this from both sides actually it's
kind of hard for me to believe that people
that are pro-war would be upset with the
coverage on the networks but it's true
they are but then again they seem to be
upset just about all the time anyway
sometimes you'll find some pretty good
things in the alternate media sometimes
you'll simply find mediocre things in
the alternate media one thing that I saw
over the weekend which I thought was
terrific was absolutely incredible made me
gain the strength to keep going for a
little while longer was a college
newspaper college newspaper at the state
university at Stony Brook called the
Stony Brook Press do you know what they
put on their front cover it's most
incredible thing it's something that will
really get your attention a stark naked
person full frontal nudity and all this
is a drawing with an American flag the
words oh say can you see and this
person's eyes are covered by a yellow
ribbon blindfolded by a yellow ribbon and
the inside of the paper matches the
cover is a lot of commentary a lot of
coverage I mean I wish people would look
at this and use it as as a model for the
national press you know obviously
improving the typeface a bit and
improving the you know the budget and
the coverage area and all that kind of
thing but it's good to see that there's
spirit in some places where you don't
expect to find it I suggest people
scour their newsstands and look for
those alternative voices if anyone is
interested in getting a copy of this
newspaper I guess you can call them
they'll probably send it to you if you
ask them nicely Stony Brook Press 516-632-6451
and that's another thing you know it's
good to to encourage people that put
out alternative perspectives of things
because that's what we're supposed to be
all about is alternative perspectives and
of course here at WBAI we're nothing but
alternative perspectives speaking of
alternative perspectives let's go back to
the phones and see if anyone out there can
convince me to you know to join the
mainstream and make me happy 279-3400
and the phone is not picking up okay
good afternoon yeah having come back from
Israel experiencing scuds you have to
understand that and that maybe a few people
were killed thank God but if 500 people
were killed you would have been happy now
we would of course like to see people
upset when women and children are killed
in Kuwait as as much as they get upset
when women and children are killed in
magnet that you don't find on this
station but as far as you're concerned
your decision to your decision to at
least try to be convinced I would say
this the person who sent those scud missiles
in in a number of years will have the
capacity to develop long-range missiles
capable of carrying biological chemical and
nuclear this is not something that's
debatable it's may not happen next year
but in a number of years I don't see
this about oil I just see this about
geopolitical about someone in the region
capable of using petrodollars not to
improve the lives of his people but to
use those dollars to accumulate nuclear
biological and chemical potential and the
means of the liver you say you're for
peace Neville Chamberlain was for peace too
you say that those people who oppose your
position are for war there is an element
there are some people who are for peace
and it's peace at any price and at some
point a war has to be fought because
they're for peace at any price there are
other people who are for war which if
fought could result in peace I find that
people who are against war sometimes are
a little bit contradictory and that they're
for the ANC and they're for the IRA and
they're for the PLO and they're for other
so-called liberation movements either
you're for you're against violence or
you're for violence those people who are
for those liberation movements I've heard
them on this station I'm not saying you
I've heard them on the station those
people also are saying that war
sometimes is necessary to defeat an
enemy now I don't know if that does it
for you but it seems to me that Hussein is
enough of an enemy whether oil exists in
the region or not that he should be
stopped that's my feeling well what do
you say about that okay I'd say that I
agree that war is necessary under certain
conditions if you if for instance you're
you're invaded by a hostile force you
have to defend yourself quite obviously
if you're if you're trying to gain
independence and negotiations are
ignored you've got to do something
obviously what my problem with this
particular conflict why is it that all
of a sudden this August we suddenly
realized hey Saddam Hussein has the
capability to do all these nasty things
where were we the last 10 or so years
when when this was being built up it just
seems hypocritical at this stage to
suddenly say this guy is is is the next
Hitler when we saw it coming we could
have done something about it and and
avoided a war altogether okay let me just
respond you're absolutely correct the
Soviets were the big aiders of Iraq but
we helped to why did we help we saw him
as a person in our interest opposing Iran now
what if we were back in the 1930s and of
course we had dealings with Germany but
at a certain point we said hey wait a
minute we have created a monster we
should have realized that we were
stupid we were short-sighted we have
created a monster again what should we do
should we say well look we helped him
and we really have to be consistent or
should we say wait a minute now this
monster is much greater than what we
expected he's got to be stopped I think
the difference is that we knew we were
creating a monster except we thought it
was going to be a monster for us and not
a monster against us and as soon as this
monster
that it's a monster against us so what do
we do do we say let's be consistent
which means we could be dead or should we
say hey we better change our policy you
see what I'm trying to say I see what
you're saying but I just don't see war is
the only way to accomplish this I think
the you know strangling the military is
we got involved when Japan attacked us so
it was self-defense but at the same time
we declared war on Germany now Germany
didn't come into the United States why
did we fight with Germany it was a war
against Japan which attacked us see
there's sometimes you have to fight a
war even though you're not being
attacked directly well you see I don't I
don't buy the comparison with World War
II because I do not see Saddam Hussein as
anything nearer Hitler and I think
that's that's really it's it's the
problem you know the Oxford Union
debates that went on in the 30s talked
about pacifism it talked about peace in
our time it talked about wars to end all
wars you know World War I and they said
to themselves look why should we go ahead
and fight this guy because he's not in
our backyard but Saddam Hussein with the
petrodollars that he accumulates can
develop intercontinental ballistic missiles
capable of striking southern Europe well
into North Africa of course Israel
obliterated I mean at some point you're
going to have to stop him forget about
the oil business some point you're
going to have to stop him or at some
point you're going to have to stop
helping him exactly and you know what
you know we stopped helping him this
year this year now why did we wait so
long well we're stupid okay but let's
admit we're stupid I'll settle for that
okay take care thanks for calling
right well yeah it was stupid I can I can
agree with that we are stupid and no
doubt we're going to continue being
stupid to to people like Assad to leaders
of South Africa and all kinds of despotic
regimes in Asia and Africa and South
America just going to keep happening and
happening until they until they you know
talk back to us and that's not a pun as to
the title of this program until they
talk back and then we say oh you're
evil it's like the teacher's pet you
know as soon as the teacher's pet starts
acting like a wise guy you know you
want to punish him all the more and
that's what happened Saddam Hussein was
the teacher's pet of sorts and now he's
he said you're not going to tell me what
to do I'll do what I want I don't know I
don't buy the argument that this is a
parallel to World War two and I think
that does a tremendous disservice to
to anyone that survived World War two I
mean Hitler was Hitler for God's sake
let's not forget that Saddam Hussein is no
Hitler Hitler was invading countries left
and right Saddam Hussein has invaded one
tiny country that arguably and I don't
support this view but you could argue it
was once part of Iraq and of course it's
about economics it's not about about
freedom democracy Kuwait had a had a
standard of living ten times as great as
that of Iraq how many Kuwaitis are there
how many do you think there are how many
people of Kuwaiti origin do you think
live in Kuwait I'll tell you this it's
less than the number of soldiers that are
there now 70% of Kuwait was comprised of
foreigners many of whom were Iraqis many
of whom were Palestinians so it's not a it's
not a case of this innocent little country
sitting there running things fairly and
democratically being overrun by this
Hitler no it's not that clear-cut yes there
was an invasion yes one government was
overtaken by another and no it was not
nice it was not fair but it's the kind of
thing that happens everywhere and the only
difference here the only difference here
is that Kuwait was a particularly rich
country they had a very high standard of
living a higher standard of living than we
do here in this country and they had lots
and lots of oil that's something that I see
as fact I don't see that as something
debatable and as long as that fact remains
I don't understand how we can justify a war
2793 400 good afternoon you're on hi okay I have a
quote for you okay of course people don't
want a war why should some poor slob risk
his life in a war when the most he can get
out of it is to come back to his farm in
one piece the leaders of a country
determine the policy and it is always a
simple matter to drag the people along
whether it is a democracy a fascist
dictatorship a parliament or a communist
dictatorship all you have to do is to tell
them that they're being attacked and
denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to
danger it works the same in any country
who said that who said that it's a guess
you want me to guess well I'm sure it's
going to surprise me and gearing I'm sorry
herman gearing really yeah and what are
your what are your personal views oh I
went here this weekend I was well I'm
against the war I was told I was not
supporting my country and I mean the
views I was expressing at that point were
mild I just said you know we really can't
afford this and there must be some other
way with all of our resources to have
you know settle this without you know
having this big conflict you can't say
that nope you cannot say that and be a
god-fearing American but the problem is
you see I I have relatives in the Gulf so
you know I said I don't want my relatives
to die over this nonsense and you know
like I was not supporting my country and
you know I think sort of like the
discussion just stopped because I think
if you went on I would have really
punched him I was so furious because how
dare anyone tell me that I'm not
supporting my country just because I'm
against this war you're supporting your
country as long as you speak for what
you feel is right I mean I've lived here
all of my life I mean this is the United
States we're supposed to be able to you
know give my almost I'm allowed my
opinion and I mean I was floored I really
was I don't know I mean what what's
really what has happened to our country
I think you had a they had a thing with
Major Owens that was rebroadcast I think
from Riverside Church he said you know
what have we become when the only way we
can settle anything is through the barrel
of a gun we do seem to be very eager to
do that in just about every situation
now and if the new world order is
indeed with us now yeah that's another
Nazi phrase I thought the new world
order and yeah forgive the phrase but I
thought the new world order was symbolized
a time of peace not a time of war yet the
new world order seems to mean nothing but
threats and the threats are coming from
us so we feel good about it but let's
look at how the rest of the world feels
about this and you know I used to sort
of monitor like the BBC and like French
radio I really stopped listening to the
world media even the BBC because I used
to you know look to the BBC as at least a
balanced view and now even today well
they're more of a balanced view than we
are still yeah well yeah that's true but
it's the one that comes on at five o'clock
you know I listen to news desk they have
and I can't remember the one that comes
on at five o'clock that's an hour long
24 hours yeah well there's there's a lot
of good programs on shortwave and they're
worth listening to radio Netherlands has
some interesting things and yes even
radio Moscow provides some radio Moscow
well I think also the Christian
Christian science monitor radio that's a
fairly new service yes yeah but I mean as
far as our news media here I mean I cannot
listen to CBS or you know I can't listen
to me well the local news here has has
really made me physically ill you know
just the gung-ho flag-waving it's that's
not what what journalism is all about it's
not supposed to be you're not supposed to
applaud the president at a press conference
when he gives a nationalistic statement
that's not what this country is supposed to
be all about the press supposed to be
investigating one question to him at all I
mean you know things he said he's just
taken as unquestionably and that that
really upsets me that the press has just
capitulated well you know you can make a
difference I've gotten into numerous
discussions with with people at various
TV stations and if nothing else you're
at least making them talk to you and if
10 people call up then you're taking up
10 times as much of their time if 100
people call up they will start to take
notice but you've got to call them you've
got to call them so if you see something
you don't like call them same thing here
if you see if you hear something on the
station you don't like call us and tell
us difference is we put you on the air
you know try doing that on uh on channel
four oh no oh try doing that on channel
four who knows who knows but you got to
try um was it the late night of it the one
on cbs that comes on the town meeting i
think america tonight america night
something like that yeah let me ask you
something did you go to washington dc at
all for any of the rallies no well i will
go to the one in march 16th i think
they're having one it's the most
incredible thing and i say this to
anybody else that's considered going
before that rally you know i was really
depressed i felt i was there was
something wrong with me because of the
feelings that i had you know i guess
it's kind of like coming out of the
closet but uh you know you feel like
you have these feelings of uh questioning
the war and everybody else is going
around happily waving flags and uh tying
ribbons around trees and things like that
and you wonder what's what's wrong then
you go to washington dc and you see
quarter of a million people there of all
different walks of life marching
together peacefully you know just
spouting various views not all agreeing
you feel great when you come back from
something like that you realize there's
a lot of people out there that are
questioning this and that is true
patriotism that really is and we wave
flags as well we had yellow ribbons as
well but we were open we were open to
disagreement we were open to questioning
um do the people that you um you know
raving these yellow flags and yellow
ribbons do they have um relatives in the
gulf um some do some don't i mean
there's so many of them over there that i
think people of all persuasions have
uh have relatives over there so far i
haven't run into people who are you know
like so gung-ho in this war who do have
relatives there that's interesting that's
that's my purse you know like well i run
into people that say they have relatives
over there of course there's no way to
prove it but i believe that there are
people that do have relatives there you
know people say their their brother is
there and if if they were you know 10
years older they'd they'd go over there
too it's um a lot of people do have
relatives over there i don't think it's
something that one particular side has uh
you know has a claim to i'm not so
sure i think that's um maybe the next
time someone you know i've come across
someone who uh um you know it's so
gun-hard say well you know who's over
there that you know or you know do you
have a relative there it's one thing that
i do like about the way this whole thing
i mean you know the armed forces or
something like that if there's if there's
one thing that i can point to that i do
like is that we have personified this war
we are showing the faces of the people
that are over there and you know i'm
kind of sick of saying you know yeah i
support our troops i don't want to
think of them as troops i want to think
of them as people that live here you
know our friends our neighbors and you
know a lot of a lot of people are very
unforgiving uh to those that uh that
joined up without realizing there would
be a war while you join the army of
course you got to be prepared for war a
lot of people joined because they had no
other way out of out of the ghetto out of
a dead-end job you know it was their
only hope and they would never have done
this had they thought that uh any kind of
military conflict was imminent so yes i
do feel sorry for those people i do
consider them to be hostages of a sort
and i hope uh i hope to god this uh this
ends quickly and uh this madness will be
over once and for all i don't think it's
going to end quickly and i think it's
going to be very very bloody yeah i think
that george bush has wanted a war from
the beginning i said you know i told
people this in september and unfortunately
i've been proved right the thing that
really upsets me and i'm going to go to
another call the thing that really upsets
me is that damn it hussein said he would
leave kuwait on saturday he said he
would leave he could have gotten away
without all of this bloodshed we got what
we wanted and the soviet union is is is to
thank for that because they were able to uh
to to get hussein to not link it to the
palestinian issue which was the big thing
for us uh but that wasn't good enough for
us we had to set this high noon deadline
and it's i shouldn't say us because it
really doesn't represent everybody
anyway thanks very much for calling and
uh we're going to go on to another call
now two seven nine uh three four hundred and
i also want to uh take a quick look at
uh today's paper uh concerning um those of
us who question those of us who have doubts
the morning after the ground war started
congregants at saint agnes cathedral in
rockville center new york had little
patience for peace over and over angry
churchgoers shouted argued or simply shook
their heads in disgust at a tiny band of
anti-war protesters led by local peace
activist kathy boyland we all want peace
who doesn't want peace said steve lang of
rockville center but you can't always have
peace by running from war we could not run
from hitler across long island people
pulled themselves to church and the bagel
shop just like any other sunday but it
was with hearts resolute in a war that
they felt must be prosecuted or heavy with
the knowledge it had begun kathy boyland
and her three companions carried signs
reading thou shalt not kill and god
forgive u.s war criminal protesting what
they said was the church's silence on the
war god has commanded us not to kill our
brothers and sisters said boyland a
wine ranch resident who had spent time in
the iraqi desert on a peace vigil before
the air war broke out january 17th and i have
to say that is true courage going somewhere
where there is a war and demonstrating for
peace demonstrating for peace while bombs
are exploding around you that takes guts
boyland continued we're here to remind
fellow catholics that the u.s is breaking god's
law the diocese has taken a neutral position
they found no sympathy terry graff of new
york city ran toward boyland and shouted in
her face you should be ashamed of
yourselves there are people over there
getting killed for you what you are is
disgusting
later in the day about 15 people held
anti-war signs on the busy westbury corner of old country and glen cove roads one sign directed at president george bush said okay okay you're not a wimp now can we have peace i feel very supportive of the troops but against war said one of the protesters dolores coleman of union dale but the opinions of many long islanders were much more bellicose than
and personally it's not a
it's not a nice thing to pray for
for that saddam dies but that is my prayer
said k argentine 65 years old as she left the king of kings lutheran church in melville yesterday morning
at the bagel shallot in comac
valerie hedwick of bay shore said that she believed hussein had to be a target of the war
you don't leave your enemy behind she said
robert zimmerman president of the american jewish congress long island region
said the liberation of kuwait without the removal of hussein gained nothing
if hussein and his military machine are still left with potential
then no region in the middle east is free from his terrorist and aggressive behavior he said
but local arabs were troubled by such talk
iraq invaded kuwait and that was wrong said matt
uh
kay i can't i can't say it matt k i will say
35 years old a long beach engineer and a naturalized u.s citizen who was born in syria
but we are there now to see the destruction of saddam and his army which is not right it is a reconstruction of the world to favor the west
because we don't have money and power in arab hands
eza abed a palestinian american active and local palestinian and arab issues
said the united states may achieve victory in war
but lose the greater battle for regional stability
we have no peace no political settlement no withdrawal
we have a war and the aims of the u.s government have quite obviously changed
bush makes it clear about his new world order
if they are talking about stability peace in the region
the opposite will be the case
while the clerics at king of kings and saint agnes only briefly touched on the war in their services
and their congregations expressed strong support for its escalation
things were decidedly different at the mount sinai baptist church in roosevelt
i think war is horrible whether it's in the air or on the ground said the reverend dr arthur mckay
in his sermon we still support our president but we must find other ways to resolve our problems we must pray for our boys and girls to come home
i'm sorry our president moves so fast and did not give negotiations more time
many members of the congregation agreed with the minister
and said they were concerned about fellow blacks who make up a large segment of the ground forces
these are people's children sons and husbands
said joanne carey of roosevelt
and a lot of blacks are over there because they're the ones who sign up when there are no jobs
but in the malls and bagel shops where many long islanders congregate
it's kind of uh kind of interesting uh long islanders congregating in a mall and bagel shop on a sunday
uh the mood was strongly in favor of the violent armored thrusts
and airborne assaults that were launched in the middle east
news of the ground war prodded sluggish sales of the sixteen dollar shirts
and american flag buttons at the team connection
in the smithaven mall and lake grove employees said
when something big happens people come out and show interest
said susan nykam the manager
at the bagel master store in the elwood center in elwood
michael drew of dicks hills said he found the news of the attack
happy and uplifting
i just hope we take light casualties he said
safety seemed to be the common ground reached between the coffee shop conversation
and the religious services
at saint agnes the reverend donald e babinski made only a brief reference to the war at his 10 30 a.m mass
for a just and lasting peace in the persian gulf and the safety of all our troops and civilians
we pray to god the congregation answered amen
and i say what a shame that we would pray for the safety of our side and the total destruction of their side that's not if you believe in religion that is not what it's all about
you know i was in washington dc this weekend and uh...
walking around realizing this city is at war you know there's uh...
one city on this side pretty much and one city on the other side that is baghdad
and what a difference between the two what a difference between what's going on in baghdad and what's going on in washington dc
people ride the metro read the paper
they don't even know what's going on no such luxury in the in the city that we are destroying
and we are destroying a city we're destroying a country we're doing it in the name of freedom and democracy
but
i don't know how long we can keep that charade up
as i said before it's uh...
it's cowardice i think
it's cowardice to uh...
send people over to fight a war
without having any idea of what a war is about
and war is not simply invading and shooting
war is civilians
living in terror
we've never had to deal with that
we've never had to
have anything other than pearl harbor
we've never had to have our cities bombed
and destroyed right in front of us
we've never had to cower in bomb shelters
we've never had to
count our family members at the end of each day to make sure they're all still alive
that is war
that's what it's all about
and to just blithely send our troops over there and say
come back soon and do a good job
it's not war
or you're sending them off to work
and hopefully they'll come back at the end of their working day
that's not war
279-3400
279-3400
good afternoon
turn on your radio please
hi
well i see red when they tell me that saddam hussein is gonna have this and that five years from now
when they really have no
no consideration
or any
any
desire to solve problems
which really will be serious a few years from now
like aids
and global warming
and homelessness
i mean
who knows how many homeless we're gonna have five years from now
actually bush is a
what i call
a corporate
cutthroat
and they've been pulling strings in america for many many years
in fact i can tell you a story about my uncle
who worked in the first agency of the united nations
about 45 years ago
anra
united nations relief and rehabilitation administration
and fiorello laguardia was the uh... director of that administration
sometime after he was mayor
and uh...
anra
united nations relief and rehabilitation administration
used to buy non-strategic materials
for our allies in world war
two
so one day
my uncle
and mayor laguardia
or ex-mayor laguardia
were buying faucets and pipes
for leningrad
which was going
undergoing nazi bombardment
and he
they were in youngston, ohio
and uh...
they were going over to the
people who were making pipes out of steel
and uh... they said to them
the women
the mothers and children of leningrad
need pipes
because when they need water
they have to walk down five
or six or seven flights of stairs
they have to go to a well
and pump up the water
well would you believe it
that there wasn't one corporation
in youngston, ohio
who would sell the soviet union
the non-strategic materials
of pipes
or
or faucets
because
they were communists
so these corporate cutthroats
have been
pulling the strings
in america
for a long time
and as far as i'm concerned
george bush
is just another
corporate cutthroat
number two
i want to talk about
the left wing of america
it's been bandaged up
for a long time
and it's been under attack
for a long time
the left wing
of the eagle
really doesn't
exist
there's only a right winged eagle
and this has been going on
for a long time
and one manifestation of that
is the attack
on our great unions
today
the daily news strike
in new york
is an example
of that
very good example
where
they are really
trying something
they've never tried
before
to destroy
nine great unions
well the first strike
i've ever
i've ever seen
that wasn't started
by the
by the unions
the management
pretty much
went out on strike
and the unions followed
correct
that's how i see that
and i think it's part
of a tactic
but i also think
that it's because
the left wing
has been so crippled
and has been so fragmented
and there are even
as you know
so many people
in the unions
that don't know
what unionism
is all about
you know
they think early retirement
and medical benefits
but you know
i think a lot of the
a lot of the weakness
of the left
can be blamed
on the factionalism
that has developed
all the infighting
and different splits
and if there was
some unification
there would be
a stronger leftist
movement in this country
right
that's the biggest
yes i agree with you
another story
i'd like to tell you
about cholera
like if i was
in george bush's place
and i heard the word
cholera
i would stop the war
immediately
i mean
that's the depth
of my sensitivity
because i can tell you
an interesting story
about my mother
in cholera
she was two years old
during the russian
civil war
and they lived
in russia
and my grandparents
were merchants
in the town
of militoba
and one day
during the civil war
this white
guard
russian
battalion
moved into this town
and started searching
all the houses
and they came upon
my mother
a little girl
of two years old
and the commander
or the sergeant
said
where are your parents
she said
oh they're resting
in bed
they have cholera
would you believe
that the entire
battalion
moved out of that
town
within a few minutes
i mean
that's what a
deadly
what a deadly
thing that is
and if i was
president of the
united states
and i heard
about cholera
i would just
withdraw immediately
and certainly
you know
what bush did
on saturday
was outrageous
what someone said
on your station
is very true
someone said
it was like
gary cooper
in high noon
but nobody
but gary cooper
had to go
it alone
and george bush
unfortunately
has many
too many allies
and this is
unfortunate
it certainly is
well mr goldstein
it's been nice
speaking to you
thanks for calling
bye
and i hope
all our callers
keep thinking
in an independent
way like that
279-3400
a question that i've
been mulling over
let's say things
continue to go
nice and smoothly
and there are no
no more casualties
and only 10 people
die in this war
on our side
let's say everything
comes out as nice
as it could possibly
come out for us
my again somewhat
naive question is
what happens next
what happens when
the next conflict
comes up
when will the next
conflict come up
and what kind of
state of mind
are all of our
militarist citizens
here going to be in
i mean is cuba next
think about it
what would stop us
from invading cuba
they're right next
to us
they're not our
friends
we already have a
military base there
and they could pose
a distinct threat
to this country
so
first stop iraq
who knows where
the second stop
will be
good afternoon
hello
go ahead
yeah
um
i would like to
answer a few
points that you
raised at the
beginning of the
show
uh how come
uh the
the americans
can go over there
and do all these
things
okay try to speak
up
okay is it better
much better
yes you were
raising some
questions as to
how come we go
and they can go
and not we go
they can go and
and destroy the
bridges and all
that kind of stuff
i think it's
something very
into the american
culture it's very
ethnocentric
even the education
system everything
is very ethnocentric
everything is very
eurocentric
everything is about
europe the
contribution of europe
and nobody else
has made any other
contributions to the
world nobody else
exists besides them
and uh
and uh
nobody else is worth
anything besides
them that's very much
part of the american
culture the american
values
well yes in fact
i i see that
quite a bit
in the uh
in the contrast
between the number
of casualties
one american life
is worth ten thousand
arab lives
is the feeling
that i get
i get very angry
because i remember
when the war started
i couldn't sleep
at night
so i went out
to talk to my
friends in school
and they were
telling me oh
we're praying for
the american truth
last night
i said well
american life
is not the only
life that is
precious
every human life
is precious
my thought
was with the
iraqi
last night
because they
were the one
being bombed
out anyway
after all
you were just
out up there
on your plane
but they were
the one
the bomb
were being
dropped on
so that person
to me
well you're right
every human
life is precious
and no one
lives
they have this
idea that
anywhere in the
third world
our lives
is expendable
they can just
go in there
swap our lives
bomb our school
bomb our hospital
and walk around
all the arrogance
that made me
so angry
i look at it
very much
as part of
the american
culture
nothing else
if it's not
europe
if it's not
the united
states
this is not
important
even when
a plane
blow up
the first
question they
ask how many
americans
there were
there
it's like
that's the
only thing
that's worth
that's the
only thing
that meant
something
and i don't
know how long
they can go
with that kind
of thinking
i have to
remind you
this kind
of thinking
will continue
as long as
we have
our isolationist
view
where we only
care about
the american
point of view
we don't open
ourselves up
to other cultures
we don't learn
other languages
we don't care
what happens
in the rest
of the world
unless it
affects us
and that's
what's unhealthy
and that's
what leads
to major
major problems
in the future
because to me
it's
as i said
before
they went
over there
it seems like
they can always
go over there
in the quote
unquote
third world
and find
some
villain
they ought
to go
and kill
last year
the villain
was
maniel
noriega
so they
had to
go get
him
so when
they got
him
we got
him
so i
left to
me
they never
found
any
there is
a bit
of racism
not a bit
there's quite
a bit
of racism
in there
too
they never
found
any
white person
that is
a villain
it's always
someone of
color
that is a
villain
look at
all the
things that
South Africa
have done
to the black
people over
there
but they
yet
to make
a villain
out of
the clerk
or any
one of
their clique
that were
there before
they get
to make
a villain
out of
him
but they
very quickly
can come up
with some
villains
from Hitler
Saddam Hussein
and everything
else
who's next
you wonder
what about
the world
order
I question
what's the
new world
order
too
because
I am
not from
this country
and I still
have relatives
in my country
so I do
wonder
what's their
intent
and when I
see them
clapping
they're going
to go kick
ass
that's
what's
coming
from the
White House
they're going
to go kick
ass
to me
it's
so repulsive
so arrogant
I'm like
who's over
there
and the way
they're talking
to other
people
like
ultimatum
like
we are
their kid
their little
kid
and we
ought
to go
into
whatever
they
ask us
to do
to me
this is
nothing
but
a new
form
of
slavery
a new
form
of
domination
and a new
form
of domination
coupled
with their
missiles
and their
fighter
bomber
and their
A16
and all
their
arrogance
all right
well I
thank you
very much
for expressing
your anger
because that's
very important
yes
thank you
okay
thanks for
calling
and yes
we have
to be
angry
we have
to express
that anger
and I
think that
caller did
it very
eloquently
because
these
are
people
people
just
like us
no
they have
different
cultures
they have
different
values
they have
different
beliefs
but they
are
people
just
like
us
they
were
created
in pretty
much
the
same
way
and
not only
the civilians
but
those
soldiers
sitting
in the
desert
waiting
to die
or running
out and
surrendering
or
god
god
knows
what
they're
as
precious
as
the
soldiers
that
we
send
over
there
they're
just
as
human
except
we've
lost
sight
of
that
we've
lost
sight
of
that
because
this
has
become
an
us
versus
them
kind
of
a
thing
now
I
don't
think
it's
I
don't
think
this
is
a
battle
over
freedom
and
I
think
South
Africa
proves
that
number
one
and Kuwait
proves
that
number
two
Kuwait
was
not
a
free
country
Kuwait
had
a lot
of
oil
still
does
and
we
want
control
over
that
region
I
think
if
we
actually
by
we
I
mean
the
government
of
this
country
I
think
if
our
government
actually
admitted
that
and
said
yeah
we're
over
there
for
oil
okay
anybody
have
a
problem
with
that
most
people
wouldn't
have
a
problem
with
that
most
people
would
say
yeah
over
there
for
oil
kick
ass
I
went
to
that
pro
war
rally
and
you
know
people
were
giving
speeches
and
cheering
the
flag
and
I
realized
I
realized
these
people
really
think
it's
just
a
football
game
and
that's
all
we're
over
there
to
defeat
them
and
to
come
back
and
have
a
ticker
tape
parade
again
war
is
so
much
more
than
that
so
much
more
and
I
think
once
somebody
experiences
it
I'd
like
to
hear
from
people
we
don't
have
time
of
course
to
hear
from
people
now
but
I'd
like
to
hear
from
people
that
have
been
in
a
war
from
the
civilian
point
of
view
let's
see
if
we
can
go
through
some
more
calls
real
quickly
good
afternoon
go
ahead
oh
hi
I
really
felt
a
previous
caller's
anger
I
feel
the
same
way
she
does
I
just
wanted
to
say
it's
just
interesting
maybe
what
this
country
really
needs
is
just
a
terrible
thing
to
say
but
the
overwhelming
anger
and frustration
that I
feel
living here
right
now
you know
they need
to have
a bomb
dropped
well
you know
I said
the
exact
same
thing
I
probably
would
be
lynched
if I
went
out
in the
street
and said
this
thing
to
say
but
it's
what
we
need
to
wake
us
up
because
we
are
at
war
damn it
war
is
war
and
we
don't
know
what
the
war
is
like
so
yeah
we
can
say
oh
it's
horrible
that
somebody
would
do
something
that
would
be
terrorism
if
somebody
dropped
a bomb
on
civilians
but
what
the
hell
are
we
doing
the
same
thing
we
need
to
see
it's
war
is
a
two
way
street
and
right
now
war
has
only
been
a
one
way
street
so
maybe
if
people
knew
how
bad
war
can
be
and
we've
never
really
known
how
bad
war
can
be
here
maybe
then
we
wouldn't
be
so
eager
to
jump
into
it
look
at
Germany
look
at
Japan
they
don't
want
to
get
into
a
war
because
they
know
what
war
is
the
Europeans
know
what
war
is
you
know
I
mean
I
happen
to
be
an
immigrant
myself
and
you
know
my
parents
lived
through
occupation
and
you
know
I
guess
in
some
way
it's
been
passed
on
to
me
but
I'll
tell
you
something
as
alienated
as
I
feel
in
all
of
this
and
I
really
thank
the
fact
that
there
is
a
station
such
as
this
because
the
overwhelming
anger
that I
feel
I
feel
almost
criminal
impulses
sometimes
and I
am
basically
a
pacifistic
person
but
it's
amazing
that you
go through
all of
these
range
of
emotions
that you
never
realized
you were
even
capable
of
and
it
just
I
mean
it
overwhelms
me
to see
the
total
disregard
you
know
if
you
carry
an
American
passport
you
seem
to
have
carte
blanche
throughout
the
whole
world
I
mean
here
we
bombed
the
hell
out
of
this
country
and
as
soon
as
he
paraded
a
couple
of
POWs
we
were
appalled
that
he
would
have
the
nerve
to
do
this
I
mean
the
fact
is
that
he
wouldn't
have
done
any
of
this
had
we
not
bombed
in
the
first
place
I
don't
understand
why
Americans
can't
see
that
you
know
did
you
happen
to hear
Margot
Kater's
comments
on that
in fact
I
was
reading
the
nation
today
I
was
reading
she
wrote
an
article
in
the
nation
and
she
wrote
confessions
of
a
Baghdad
Betty
I
have
the
article
here
well
I
just
thought
it
was
so
incredible
what
she
said
about
the
rules
of
war
you
have
this
war
and
you
expect
people
to
play
by
the
rules
but
if
somebody
makes
fun
of
a
soldier
that's
violating
the
rules
and
war
is
so
barbaric
how
can
you
have
rules
to
something
like
that
and
so
many
people
have
jumped
on
her
saying
you're
anti-american
for saying
that
but
I
think
maybe
she's
anti-american
if she's
anti-american
then so
am I
but
she's
pro-human
and pro
what's
decent
in the
world
and
war
is
not
decent
I
think
that if
anybody
is really willing
to be
honest
with
themselves
even
if
they're
not
willing
to
say
it
in
public
because
they
feel
that
saying
that
there
was
no
reason
for
this
there
was
never
any
reason
for
the
bombing
as far
as I'm
concerned
but
even
now
they had
planned
they had
picked
this war
date
there's
no reason
why
this
couldn't
have
been
avoided
at the
most
it would
have
taken
a week
to
iron
things
out
but
they
would
have
been
out
of
there
they
said
they
wanted
to
go
there's
no
reason
for
this
and
yeah
I
agree
with
you
I
think
your
previous
call
he
made
such
a
wonderful
he
was
talking
about
the
misapplication
of
prophecy
and
I
mean
that
was
so
beautiful
you know
they've
used
everything
to
manipulate
the
American
mind
you
have
30
seconds
by
the
way