And you're listening to WBAI New York, and this is Off The Hook.
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is Off The Hook.
We have another story. This is from the Risks Digest, which is a computer-circulated newsletter.
It comes out on computer. It doesn't come out on paper unless you print it on paper,
as I have done. I received—this is from a poor sucker in Utah, I believe. I received
notice from my insurance company that my automobile insurance was being raised drastically,
four times as I recall, and after deciphering the code that gives the reason for a rate
increase, I found that I had been booked for a DWI, driving while intoxicated. At first
I found this amusing, as I don't drink at all. I called the insurance company to clear
up what was an obvious mistake, and found that not only did they disbelieve me, but
I was given a lecture on driving and drinking. In order for them to change, I had to supply
them with proof that I did not have a DWI in triplicate, as well as a character witness.
They made the mistake, yet I was given the burden of proof, not only of my not having
committed the alleged offense, but of my personal integrity as well, and no, they had the facts
and did not see any reason to verify them. At the driver's license bureau, my record
was as clean as I thought it to be. I got the printout for a fee, and then had it notarized
for another fee. It was a slow day, and the clerk was amused by my little story, so he
started playing with my driver's license number to see if a juxtaposition mistake had been
made. We finally found the offender, and he had the same last name, and hence in Utah,
the same driver's license number, but with an additional post-fix character.
After sending this information, along with a letter from a couple of people who know
me, stating they had never seen me ingest alcohol, I was out $21 cash and had missed
a few hours of work. I then received a call from the insurance company, who instead of
apologizing for the mistake, cross-examined me on every point. I finally broke off with
this person by threatening to sue unless they corrected their mistake. Needless to say,
I changed insurance companies. A tale of woe from Stephen Sears, somewhere in Utah.
And we have increasing numbers of people that generally believe anything that the computer
says. You ever have a situation like that? You know, these are the people that are in
charge. These are the people that make the decisions. These are the people behind the
counters. These are the people behind the controls. And one such person works in a hardware
store. This incident happened to, well, somebody who didn't say where he lived. His name is
Steve Bellowen. Happened to me a few Saturdays ago. I needed to pick up some 12-gauge electrical
cable. I browsed past the 14-gauge coils, then picked up a 25-foot coil of 12-gauge.
The price was about twice what the 14-gauge cost. Odd and unreasonable, I checked further.
The 25-foot coil of 12-gauge cost exactly the same as a 50-foot coil. That price, in
turn, was slightly more than the same length of 14-gauge. Ah, someone put the wrong sticker
on the 25-foot coil, I thought. There was a clerk standing nearby. I pointed out the
error to him. He consulted a handy printout. Nope, it's priced correctly, see? And sure
enough, the printout showed that 25 feet and 50 feet of 12-gauge wire cost the same thing.
I tried pointing out that that was unreasonable. He shrugged and walked away. Having a bit
of time, I decided to tell the manager. It took a bit of explaining to get my point across.
One of the two individuals I was speaking to didn't understand anything I was saying.
After all, the computer had the price as the sticker. What was the problem?
I finally made myself understood, but to no avail. Store prices were set from the regional
computer center a few towns away, and nothing could be done until the office reopened on Monday.
I'm sure we've all run into people like that. We call them droids. Droids, D-R-O-I-D-S.
And they're a perfect consequence of the cash society, says Michael Dwyer.
Cash society is also known as capitalism. Capital, which includes money and rich people,
seeks to maintain power and control. Free-thinking, independent people are too prone to upsetting
the status quo. Remember that. More importantly, they're expensive, since they are individuals
instead of a bulk commodity. Engineering is the discipline of reducing production from
that which requires a craftsman to that which a droid can do. Computer-based systems, cash
registers that make change, and countless other high-tech innovations exist solely for
the purpose of de-skilling work. Converting production from a dignified act with deep
psychological gratification to assembly lines and other droid jobs is a trend clear since
the beginning of the Industrial Revolution.
And Bob Sutterfield writes, I have found that droids often expect to talk to other droids,
so if one creatively molds one's behavior into the droid pattern, often significant
advantages can be reaped. For instance, when trying to convince a droid to send me an XXX
component to replace a critical but broken XXX widget here, I have been known to resort
to saying something like, I sure wish you could get that down to the shipping dock this
afternoon, rather than tomorrow morning. My boss is breathing down my neck, and he doesn't
like being told that XXX isn't working.
This invariably elicits sympathy in the droid on the other end of the phone, who then tries
to help out a fellow droid in trouble. In real life, I have considered autonomy for
my supervisors and whatever flexibility I really need to get my job done. Very un-droid-like
attributes, but there's no need to tell the droid that. Let the droid think that all the
world's a droid. He or she will feel good about doing something to help another droid,
and I'll get my XXX fixed a day faster.
How many droids have you talked to today?
Well, every time you pick up the phone, you're likely to find one or two of them. You know,
people that, uh, you're talking to them and they, they're not hearing you. They're
accessing their computer. They're looking at what the computer is telling them, and
even though it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, it's their bible. It's the gospel.
Okay, before we, uh, pick up the telephone, let's, uh, take a quick look at the risks
of voicemail. The phone companies are starting to offer voicemail. You know, the phone companies
are actually, uh, offering the equivalent of answering machines, and it's just so much
more convenient, isn't it? Because you no longer have to have an answering machine,
something else to lose. It's all there in your phone. Somebody calls you, you're not
home, and a message gets stored somewhere, somewhere on a huge computer, and then you
can call and get that message back from any phone. And if you think about it for more
than a few seconds, I mean, anybody could call and get that same message with the right
information. Well, according to an anonymous contributor to the Risks Digest, the insidious
risks of telephone companies' centralized voicemail services aren't really when they
don't work, it's when they do work. True, nice long personal identification numbers
known as PINs. Nice long PINs being available for the users is a nice feature, but how many
people will ever bother to use them? Given the choice, most people pick short, simple
PINs. One must wonder, how many choose 1-2-3-4, or 4-3-2-1 as their PINs? It might be argued
that given the increasingly short PINs available on newer answering machines, three digits
is typical, two is not rare, and sometimes not even all of those digits can be changed
by the user, the telephone company PINs are more secure, potentially true if used properly.
But the real danger is all those nice messages spinning around on the disks down at the phone
company. Of course, we all trust the phone company completely, and when they tell us
that nobody will have access to those messages but authorized persons, we believe them, don't
we? Sure, encryption systems with the user entering a key could be implemented, that
would be moderately more secure, though of course you'd have no way to know that the
system isn't recording your keys. But even that level of security is not implemented
nor planned in any of the phone company offerings. In any case, phone company personnel would
never just snoop on people's messages, right? The fact that for years it was common for
speakers to be hooked up in central offices so that night shift workers could listen in
on interesting lines, just for laughs, right? Well, that shouldn't impact our thinking about
today's totally honest and upright phone companies. And of course, nobody who isn't doing something
wrong should be concerned about the potential for law enforcement or other agencies to go to
Telco, the phone company, and demand access to the messages, probably using the same sort of
court orders used to do wiretaps in the case of legal taps, and we all know the government
never does illegal taps. But just think, all those nice messages, all in one place. And
even better, assuming the phone company keeps or is ordered to keep backups and archives
of their data, and what diligent phone company wouldn't keep backups, it could be possible
for an agency to go in and not only pick up a person's current messages, but their past
messages as well, perhaps going back for months or even years. Now, that's service.
But these sort of things would never happen, right? And after all, you were able to get rid of
your answering machine, and you don't really care who listens to your boring old personal
messages anyway, do you? And if you can't trust the phone company, who can you trust?
Well, the program is off the hook. And we're talking about the phone company, as we always
do, and about the various computers and credit agencies that we find so interesting. And
it's always fun to play around and try to bend the system a little bit. You ever try
to... you get a check at a restaurant, and you try to pay a little bit of it in cash
and a little bit of it on a credit card? It drives them crazy! They don't know what to
do! They can't figure it out, because the computer says one thing, and you're trying
to do something else. If you ever need a good laugh, that's always good for at least 20
minutes or so. Or... well, this is something interesting that actually just happened to
me two days ago. It gives you a sense that they're out there, you know, they're keeping
track, watching over your shoulder. I have this Visa card, a real Visa card, you know,
the one I use, and then I have this one I don't use. Because they have an interest rate
of about 400% or something, and the minute you start using it, a clock goes off and the
horses are running. And every now and then, like about every month or so, they send me
a check. Yeah, they send me a check, and they want me to deposit this check. Because the
moment I deposit the check, the interest starts piling up. So I'm used to getting
checks from these folks. But I wasn't expecting what they did a couple of days ago. They sent
me a check for a certain amount of money, and then attached to the check was an itemization
of how I should spend it. They said, well, this amount goes to pay off your Visa bill,
this amount goes to pay off your Sears credit card, and they had all my bills itemized.
They had actually taken it upon themselves to go into my credit rating, see what I owed,
and write me a check for the entire amount, say, hey, pay off all your bills and just
owe us, and just pay us from now on. And I was left with such a warm feeling. A warm
feeling of rage. And one more fun story, and then we'll go live, take some phone calls,
just like a party. And only, only $10 a minute? What do you say? No. What do we charge for
phone calls here? We don't charge anything for phone calls. We can just call up and have
all of New York City and the surrounding area be bombarded by your voice in the form of
radio waves. Now you'd think that was bad. This poor person got, well, he didn't pay
his phone bill with U.S. Sprint, so he got a letter from the National Collection and
Debt Recovery Service on behalf of U.S. Sprint, and he got this computer-generated letter.
It's all in uppercase. We know a lot about you, David Blank. We know where you live.
We know your telephone number. In many cases, we even know where you work. After all, that
information was requested when U.S. Sprint extended credit to you, and you know a lot
about U.S. Sprint long-distance telephone service. Otherwise, you wouldn't have placed
an order for that service. Since we know so much about each other, how about paying what
you owe U.S. Sprint? And the amount that the man owed, by the way, was $14.95. Incredible.
You know, something changed. I don't know if it's changed here. It's changed in some
parts of New York State. Let's get on the blower right now and see if it changed here.
You know, when you... we've played with this quite a few times on this program, actually.
The automated repair service, automated repair, used to be you call up and you get an
operator, and you tell the operator what's wrong, you know, phone's broken, and you tell
her the various symptoms, and she sends a man over to fix it. You know, that was the
old-fashioned way. The new-fangled way, you get connected to this android who says,
this is the new, quick way to fix your telephone. Press 1 if you want to continue, press 2 if
you don't want to continue, press 3 if you don't have a touch-tone phone, etc. And you
just keep going on and on and on, and eventually you go through every single possibility there
is as to what could be wrong with your telephone, and after about 15 minutes on the phone,
you finally finish reporting your problem. It's that simple. Well, rumor has it that that
system is no more. Now, I'm going to try accessing it right now, even as we speak, and
hopefully the call will go through the first time.
Excuse me, Miss Sealy, may I have the area code I'm going to be reporting?
Hello, is this a human being or a computer?
What do I sound like?
You sound like a human, but I was wondering, because there was a computer on here only
about a week ago, wasn't there?
Sometimes the computer picks up when we're busy.
I see, but not anymore, I mean, not when you're not busy?
No.
Okay, you see, I'm calling from WBAI Radio, and we're sort of doing a story about this,
and we were wondering if a lot of people were complaining, or if the phone company has changed
in any way?
Well, honey, I'm not supposed to discuss this with you. You're supposed to call customer
service.
Uh-huh. They're not open right now, are they?
They are. Call 212.
Yeah.
395.
395.
2552.
2552?
Mm-hmm.
They're open right now?
Yeah.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Thanks for calling.
Have a good night.
Good night.
Should we call customer service? Oh, let's call customers. I didn't think they were open
this time, but why not get to the bottom of this story once and for all? Okay, we are
connecting to customer service. Customer service is ringing.
President Helpline, Ms. Mason.
Yes, hello. I'm calling from WBAI Radio in New York. We're doing a live on-air documentary
about the repair service and why there isn't a computer picking up anymore. Could you tell
us anything about that?
I'm afraid I cannot answer that question, sir. You have to speak to someone from our
news department.
Our news department. Okay. What's their number?
I would have to have someone get back to you on that. They're not available at this hour.
We have to contact someone and have them reach you.
I see. So they'd have to call me back.
Yes.
Okay. Well, I'll tell you what. I'll call you tomorrow, and I'll make an arrangement
for that.
Okay.
All right. Thanks so much for your help, though.
The call is 212-395-0500.
And what number is that?
That is the number for the news department during the day.
Okay. Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
Notice how I got it out of her in the end. Yeah, the number for the news department.
So, okay, we won't... Should I try calling it anyway? She said it was closed. It would
be a direct disobeying of her order, but... Oh, what are we here for but to disobey orders?
Okay, we'll just try that, and then we have a special guest who just popped in. We're
going to say hello to that person.
Wouldn't it be something if she picked up?
I told you not to call this number.
I've had that happen. I've gotten the same operator twice in a row.
Yes, hello. Is this the news department?
Hello?
Hello?
Yes.
Is this the news department?
News department?
Of the phone company.
Yes.
It is. Hi, I'm calling live from WBAI Radio in New York.
Yes.
And we're doing kind of an on-air documentary about the old computer on the repair service
and why it's not answering anymore. Was that a very popular service?
The old computer?
Well, you know, when you called 611, you'd get an automated repair service.
Yes.
And now you don't seem to get that anymore.
What do you get?
You get a human. Just like in the old days.
Hold on, let me check into that.
Okay. Maybe I uncovered a scandal here.
Well, while he's going to check that out, we have this story from the Associated Press.
The State Department of Labor has enacted a computerized system
that allows employers to access profiles of potential employees.
The department says the system is the first computerized system in the nation.
Labor Commissioner Raymond Bramucci says employers will be able to access
many resumes of workers who can...
We still have it in operation upstate.
Upstate, but not down...
Not everywhere.
Not... Okay.
Because it seemed to be answering a lot more than it's answering now,
and we were just wondering if it was being phased out or upgraded or something like that.
It hasn't changed in quite a while.
Uh-huh.
So it's still around, but just not as prevalent.
Right.
Okay. Thanks very much for helping us.
You're welcome, Clay.
All right. Very helpful.
The phone company is always willing to reach out a hand and do something with it.
Labor Commissioner Raymond Bramucci says employers will be able to access
many resumes of workers who can meet their employment and training needs.
Dubbed the mini-resume system, the program will be available to any employer
with a personal computer and modem by calling 1-800-772-RESUME.
1-800-772-RESUME will work, too.
Or 609-984-1380 or 609-984-1381.
I have no idea what happens if you call those numbers,
but Associated Press sent them over to us, so we're sending them over to you
and report back to us.
Do keep those cards and letters and telegrams and whatever else coming into the radio station
because we always like to explore new computer systems, new telephone systems
and oddities and things like that and any kind of development.
Our address is off the hook.
Care of WBAI Radio 505 8th Avenue, New York, New York 10018.
This is Emanuel Goldstein.
Our telephone number is 212-279-3400.
And we have in the studio with us now a famous former hacker
who you may have read about in various newspapers, magazines, TV programs.
This is FiberOptic.
Let me make sure I have the right microphone on.
Are you there, Fiber?
Yes, I'm here.
I can call you Fiber, I hope.
Well, call me Optic.
Optic? Okay, fine, Optic.
Optic spelled with a K, by the way.
Mr. Optic has come in here today to answer questions that anybody might have out there
regarding what in particular?
Regarding, I guess, hacking in general.
Hacking in general.
What is hacking?
Who are the hackers?
Are the hackers the biggest threat to mankind since, I don't know,
since whoever the last threat to mankind was?
Our number is 212-279-3400.
I know there's a conference in the city tomorrow, a virus conference,
and a lot of computer security people are going to be there talking about this very such issue.
I don't know if any of them are out there listening now,
but we'll certainly have something to report on in a couple of weeks
to see just what happened there.
Some of the biggest minds in the business, I guess, will be there both Thursday and Friday,
and it's taking place at World Trade Center,
and I don't know many more details than that.
It's taking place Thursday and Friday.
Perhaps you can define for us what hacking is in your view.
I know it's a tough question and one you probably get asked all the time,
but it's required, part of the agreement here.
Well, I guess hacking is just, it's the,
it's just what drives people to want to master technology
and understand everything they possibly can about it.
Sometimes in one's adventures one might fracture a law or two.
Fracture a law, okay.
Would you say technology is a necessary element to hacking?
Is it possible to be a hacker without using technology?
Well, people can bend the word and what it means.
Were there hackers in the 18th century, for instance?
Some people would say that the first person that rubbed two sticks together in a cave was a hacker.
And the way I see it, hacking is just a way of thinking.
It's a way of relating to what you have at hand and using it to the best of your ability.
Okay. All right. That sounds good to me.
If you have any questions for the program or for FiberOptic,
feel free to call in to 1-2-2-7-9-3-4-100.
And let's see who's out there.
Good evening.
Hi.
How are you doing?
Excellent show.
Point of information.
Several, well, over a month ago, Emanuel,
you did a show where you were calling very remote parts of this country.
And in that, you were calling, like, relay, some sort of stations.
Right.
I don't know if you remember, but one...
Tall stations.
Right.
You got to a place called Shoop, Idaho.
And you found that they actually aren't a toll station anymore.
Well, they are the last place, and they may be gone now, in America, that have crank phones.
I think they may be gone now.
They might be.
I can't be 100% sure, but I think they might be.
That's enough incentive for me to visit that place.
It's so remote, you know, that on a map it's hard to find, even a detailed map of the state.
And that was a... you connected into an actual party line in that little community.
Right.
But the people there use the old-fashioned...
I just found it fascinating that you happened to tap into the one place in America
that is the last place that, you know, one can find that antiquated...
Well, you know, there's a lot of oddities out there.
You'll still find step-by-step switching systems.
In fact, a nearby one, probably the nearest one, is Fishers Island, right off Long Island, out east.
They're operating on a step system.
You'll find all kinds of other things.
For instance, up in, I think it's New Hampshire, they have these things called dial-less pay phones.
Pay phones without dials.
You call the operator.
I don't know how you call the operator, but I guess you pick up the phone,
and the operator eventually answers, and you tell her you're at a dial-less pay phone,
and you have to be connected to something,
and they connect you without charging you additional money.
I can't for the life of me imagine the point of a pay phone without a dial.
I guess it's less moving parts, but still, it seems kind of silly.
Yeah, it's just the interesting parts of this country are still lagging several years behind technology.
Not that that matters, but once that goes, I don't know what's left.
Well, some parts are lagging behind others, but other parts are moving in different directions.
I mean, you can walk around New York City and see 20 different kinds of pay phones in the course of an hour.
Most of the alternate ones are horrible rip-offs, I'll admit, but some of them are interesting.
Some of them do provide some services.
You once had a show where you actually phoned, and you could hear the sounds of the street.
Yeah, we had a pay phone that has a built-in monitor in it, and allows you to spy on whoever is there.
I was living in London. There was one phone booth in the Camden Town tube station
where you could phone anywhere in the world for free.
One phone until so many people, someone let the cat out of the bag,
and, of course, British Telecom came along and closed that line off.
It's interesting. This show is one of the unique, unique aspects of New York radio,
and the fact that it's on BAI makes it all the better, and I just wanted to thank you for your work.
It's fascinating.
Well, I'm glad you're enjoying it so much.
Okay, 212-279-3400.
And I might also add, as kind of a self-promotion, I guess, that the new edition of 2600 is out,
and all kinds of interesting things, like a story about a political hacker,
somebody in a political party that was actually hacking into the opponent's computer and reading files,
and how it was a big hush-up, and nobody really wants to talk about it in either circle.
There's also a bit on rip-offs, okay?
There's a lot of things about rip-offs in here. I won't get into it, but so many services are rip-offs,
and you've got to know what you're getting yourself into.
So many people, so many agencies want to charge you money and rip you off in many ways,
and educated consumer is a vanishing thing, for sure.
212-279-3400.
We have FiberOptic here answering questions and any other general things you might have.
Dial-a-Tone.
How did we get one of those?
That's better.
Good evening.
Hi, I wanted to really thank you for the program.
I was going to ask your guest, Mr. FiberOptic, for advice about how to learn about hacking
from somebody who's just a beginner.
I heard on the other program about Stephen James' book, Games,
and I just was going to ask you if you could share with us how one learns about the hacking
and mastering technology, and I'll hang up and listen to the answer.
Okay.
Okay, I guess the best response to that question, well, one very good way, obviously,
would be to read 2600.
It would put you in contact with a wide variety of different types of people that are involved
in hacking, some good things and some not-so-good ways, and that's one way.
There are various underground newsletters that do tend to report on the computer underground.
There's another one, InterTech, which is put out by Frank Drake on the West Coast.
I just started it.
In fact, we just got the first issue of that, and it's a very impressive-looking publication.
Yeah, and typical things like that.
Usually, once you get into contact with one such publication, it usually branches off from there,
and you're able to get in contact with various different other types of people,
whether directly or indirectly, and the results can be interesting.
What about computer bulletin boards?
Are there any of those left?
Well, I wouldn't be so bold as to say that there are any respectable hacking bulletin boards anymore
because, obviously, there aren't, despite what…
But why is that?
Have they all been taken away, and hackers aren't going to put them back up?
It's sort of a mixture of people not wanting to run them anymore
for fear of being raided by law enforcement types,
and the press has been taking steps to smear the hacking image,
to depict them as criminals and lawbreakers and a threat to society.
Okay. Our number is 212-279-3400.
Good evening.
3400.
And turn down your radio, please.
Hello?
Hello.
Go ahead.
I'd just like to ask him what kind of communication program he needs.
I need to start a hacking.
Well, first of all, you need something in your psyche, I guess.
That's the first kind of software you need.
You need to have a desire to go out and explore things and find things and ask a lot of questions.
What is it in particular you're interested in?
Well, I just want to know what kind of communication program you need to put on the computer.
What kind of computer do you have?
IBM.
IBM. There's all kinds. ProCom.
That's one.
That's a very simple thing to... You can just get a dozen programs.
I mean, ProCom is fine. Get that and just start dialing and connecting to things.
Well, if I may elaborate,
hacking doesn't necessarily mean using terminal software with a modem.
You can be hacking in the comfort of your own home without even picking up a telephone,
just by exploring that world inside your computer.
How do you do that? You have to call up another computer, right?
Not necessarily.
Hacking has a lot to do with programming and mastery of operating systems and languages and things of that nature.
It doesn't necessarily entail being connected to another computer.
A lot of the magic is there, though, when you do connect to other systems.
It's that first thrill when you actually connect to another computer.
But Fiber is right.
There is a lot to be seen within your computer.
Unless you have a Commodore or something. I don't know.
But it's an incredible...
The telephone, too, is an incredible instrument.
For those of you that don't have computers, there's so much to explore on the telephones.
Like what?
Well, there's all kinds of voicemail systems.
I have the Prodigy services, and that's the only one that I could connect to.
I was wondering if there were different softwares that I could call up different computers.
It allows you to communicate. The Well is one that comes to mind.
Out in San Francisco.
A good way to connect to San Francisco without incurring too much of a charge is to get a service known as PC Pursuit.
Which is offered by... Is it still GT?
It's just Telenet now.
Sprint.
Sprintnet. Whatever. They keep changing their names.
But for $30 a month, you can get 30 hours of connect time, which is a really good deal.
You can get connect time anywhere in the country.
That way, you'll be able to hook into a lot of other people.
And that's the secret. Once you start exchanging ideas, you'll see the magic.
All right. Thanks a lot.
Thanks for calling.
279-3400. Good evening.
Hello.
How are you doing?
Pretty good.
I was interested in what he was saying about computers.
I was dialing a London number, and I was getting the wrong number.
And the machine kept coming on and saying,
You've dialed... Your call can't be completed as dialed.
Please call 212-6T.
And I called 6T.
Oh, boy.
I'm in a New York area code, and it just says it's a recording.
No, no.
And I just tried it again, and that's exactly what it says two weeks later.
No, no.
212-6T is a label put on the recording that you heard.
But, I mean, that's what they're referring me to do.
Because my number couldn't be completed,
they were saying for assistance, dial 212-6T, which I dialed 6T,
and it kept saying this is a recording.
Wait. How did you dial 6T?
I just dialed 6T.
I'm in a New York area code.
What did you dial for T? 8?
Yeah.
Okay. You just dialed 6-8, in other words.
Yeah.
Okay. Well, that's interesting.
But the 6T, I don't know exactly how it was phrased,
but those recordings, first of all, they give you an area code
that tells you where the recording came from,
and then an identifier of sorts.
6T was the identifier.
I don't know if FiberOptics knows what that means.
This is AT&T long line saying, you know, your call can't be completed.
For assistance, dial 212-68, right?
Uh-huh.
Then you get a machine that just says this is a recording.
You know, I suspect what happened was the actual recording,
which probably was cut off, but sometimes the tapes go crazy,
it should have said, call your operator for assistance, 212-6T.
That's how it should have gone.
Well, I called an operator, and I got the number correct.
She gave me two numbers for London, and I happened to guess the right one,
and I got my party.
But I told her that I was dialing this number,
and they were saying two weeks ago that I told her,
I said, you know, I dialed this number,
and they were telling for assistance, call this number, 6-8, which I did.
Okay.
And it's still two weeks later, it's still the same.
I just wanted to point this out as an oddity, you know.
I'll keep my eye open for that one.
All right?
Right.
Thanks for sharing that with us, though.
All right.
Okay, then.
Bye.
Okay.
There are quite a few neat recordings out there,
but you shouldn't try dialing 6T.
I know that's not going to work.
You just know those kind of things aren't going to work.
I don't know.
Have you ever dialed anything interesting?
I'm sure you have.
Oh, scores of things that I'd probably get in trouble for mentioning.
Name one that you won't get in trouble for mentioning.
Just, you know, an interesting busy signal or something.
Well, let me think.
Let's see.
Well, I guess a funny one probably would have been an old switching system in Brooklyn
before it was cut over to a newer switching computer.
It sounded like a pulsing dial tone.
Oh, yes.
Oh, yes.
In fact, that was a favorite for people all over the country.
Yeah.
Everybody knew about that one.
It used to be that busy signals would always sound different, you know?
Yeah.
In fact, let's see if we can do a very brief demonstration here
and then go back to the phones.
What do we call electronic switching?
It has a certain kind of busy signal, all right?
All right.
Now, this is an electronic switching system busy signal, known as ESS busy.
Okay, it sounds kind of electronic, I guess, is the best way to do that.
Okay.
Now we're going to hear a mechanical crossbar busy signal,
and you'll see the difference.
This one is a bit more harsh, a bit more irritating to the ear, a bit more old-fashioned.
Now, there's people that can't tell the difference between those two,
and I pity them, but there's a mechanical relay going there.
Now, there's also ones with much deeper baritone busies.
You wouldn't have the Noni exchanges off the top of your head, would you,
of old number one crossbars in Queens or Brooklyn?
Well, there wouldn't be any more in Queens or Brooklyn.
That's right. They got rid of them all, didn't they?
Yeah.
Although there's still some upstate in rural New York.
Let me see if I can connect to this one in particular.
That's one of my favorites. It's an old step system.
Okay. We're trying to connect to interesting-sounding busy signals and dial tones and things like that.
Oh, that's bad. That shouldn't be there. Hold on.
You have dialed an invalid account code.
Oh, forget that then.
Okay. Let's go back to the telephones.
Enough of this demonstration here.
Good evening.
Hi. I'm a BII listener up in Poughkeepsie.
Up until about four months ago, when I would call in to be on the air on the station,
sometimes, you know, if there's many callers before me, I would have to wait maybe 10, 15 minutes.
Well, after about 10 minutes, my line would be interrupted with a recorded message that just said,
your call did not go through.
And this really irritated me, and I tried to call the phone company and find out the reason why this would happen,
and they said, well, we have no idea, and there's no way we can change it,
and it just seemed to disappear on its own.
Now, regardless of how long I have to wait, the line still rings.
Do you have any explanation of what that was?
I think fiber optic does.
Yeah. Very simply, in newer electronic switching systems installed by the phone company,
it would purposely intercept your telephone call in progress if it was ringing in excess of 10 to 15 minutes.
This is largely due to the fact that in older switching systems, which were not computer controlled,
one would trick the phone company into thinking that if someone called them,
they could hook up such and such a device to the phone line that would trick the phone company's equipment
into thinking that the phone was ringing, sometimes for hours.
And what that would do, in relation to that, what would happen is that someone could place a call,
the phone company's equipment would think the line was still ringing,
and the people could carry on a conversation.
Oh, I see. So it's to foil somebody cheating the phone company.
Pretty much, yeah.
Well, it's also the fact that the phone company isn't getting any revenue from you sitting on there ringing a line.
Yeah, I understand that part, but that's pretty petty thinking, I mean.
Oh, it definitely is. But, you know, I don't think that's happening on our end.
Is it possible to do that on the originating end?
That's where it happens, on the originating end.
And also, it's something else I wanted to mention, that what seems to be a problem on BAI lately is,
from the other end, like just now, I heard your voice cutting on and off,
and I've been hearing this as a complaint from outside callers coming in on the air.
I just wondered if there's something generally with the phone system where you're being interfered with.
I think the on-air voice is clear.
Me coming to you is unbroken, but you coming to me just cut off a few times while we were talking.
I think that's something endemic in our operating board here at BAI.
It would be nice if it could get ironed out, because on long-distance calls, it sometimes interferes with them.
Well, I'm going to hang up, and listen, I enjoyed the show very much.
Okay. Take care.
Thank you.
Call from Poughkeepsie there.
I have to take issue with what you just said, Fiber, as far as it being on the originating end,
that particular service, I guess you call it, where it cuts off at a certain number of rings.
I know of one system on the island that, after about 25 rings, it's a DMS-100 Northern Telecom switching system.
It will always give you a reorder, fast, busy signal, and it's coming from there.
That's what's doing it.
It's certainly likely that other systems do it on the originating end, but there are ones that do it on the receiving end.
Thank God our switch here, our telephone switch, does not do that, because all of the people calling us,
can you imagine all of you people out there now ringing the phone, sitting there, waiting patiently to be picked up,
not knowing if you're going to be gotten to tonight?
All of you people, you would have to keep calling back, because after 20 rings, it would go to a fast, busy signal.
What a horrible system that is, but it could very well be in your future if you allow it to happen.
Good evening.
Hello.
How are you doing?
I called up the 800 number for resumes with ProCom, hoping that my resume would be there,
since I registered with the New York State Department of Labor looking for work,
and when I dialed 772-RESUM, which would be 7378,
I get a recording saying the number is not accessible from my area.
Okay, that means you're probably calling from...
718.
718, yeah, New York.
I think the 800 part is only for New Jersey, but there's 609 numbers for out of state.
609 would be Southern Jersey.
Yeah, so the way I imagine it works is the 800 number only works in New Jersey,
and the 609 numbers work everywhere else.
Is this New Jersey Department of Labor, or who's running it again?
New Jersey Department of Labor.
Oh, then my resume would not be there since I'm registered for work.
Well, you never know.
Resumes pop up in the weirdest places.
I don't want to travel all the way to New Jersey.
Well, you can always look for someone with the same name.
All righty.
Thank you very much.
Thanks for calling.
Bye.
And for those of you whose curiosity was piqued by that last comment,
the phone numbers for the State Department of Labor.
This is public information.
This came over the Associated Press.
State Department of Labor in New Jersey has a new computerized system,
first nationwide, first computerized system in the nation,
that has all kinds of mini resumes.
I don't know why they gave the phone number to it,
but if you're in New Jersey, 800-772-RESUME,
and if you're out of New Jersey, 609-984-1380 or 1381.
I've never called it.
I don't know what you get when you call it,
so hopefully somebody can reveal that information to us.
Good evening.
Oh, good evening.
I'm so glad I got on.
I didn't think I would.
Makes your night, doesn't it?
Pardon?
It makes your night.
I know the feeling.
Oh, it sure does.
Listen, the call that came in for the last of the hand-cranked telephones?
Uh-huh.
What town?
Was that in the state of Idaho?
Yes.
Can you tell me the town?
Oh, what was the name of that town?
It began with an S.
It was one syllable, and it began with an S.
S?
I don't know, something like that.
But you don't remember the name of the town?
No, it just escapes me at the moment.
Is it anywhere near Ketchum, do you know?
See, I don't know Idaho either.
It's just kind of shaped weird, but that's about all I know about Idaho.
How can I go about finding out?
Could I call you at a later date or a later time to find out?
Well, how would you go about finding out?
Because I'm going to be going that way in the month of June through September.
Well, you know, what is the Idaho phone company out there?
It would be, what, Pacific Bell or something?
I guess.
Whatever the phone company is out there, they should know.
They definitely should know.
A telephone company.
Yeah, I mean, they do know these things,
and I'm sure if you get a nice operator, they'll actually share that information with you.
Okay, I'll try it, and thank you for your program.
It's very interesting.
And let us know what you find out.
I will.
Thanks for calling.
Hello, good evening.
Hello.
I'd like to find out about Risk Digest, which is a magazine you mentioned a couple of minutes earlier in the show.
You had some excerpts from it?
Right.
Well, Risk Digest is available.
It's a Usenet newsletter.
There's thousands of them.
Is it a hard copy thing, or is it a real?
No, you have to be on the Internet, which is a whole other show, really.
It's basically a network bigger than anything you could possibly imagine.
It spans throughout the globe, and you can connect to all different kinds of systems and news feeds,
and this is just one of the news feeds.
It's a computer service, and it talks about the risks of technology, basically.
Right, yeah, it's basically at the risks of technology.
I'll tell you, if you connect to The Well, the system we mentioned earlier in San Francisco,
they're a system that has access to all those feeds.
Also, any public UNIX system you see floating around in New York,
I think there's one called, what, The Point or something in New York, and they're around.
You just have to look around a little bit, but you can find them.
I see.
Well, I have some information from a lady who just called SHOUP, S-H-O-U-P, Idaho, which is what I heard you say before.
SHOUP, that is it.
Thank you.
That is located in Lemhi, L-E-M-H-I County in Idaho, and it's northwest of the county seat, which is Salmon.
It's actually on the Salmon River, in fact.
S-A-L-M-O-N is the county seat of Lemhi County, and so it's like in the eastern part of the middle of the state.
The state is sort of like vertical.
It's almost like a chair.
It is a weird-looking place, isn't it?
Sort of in the right angle of the chair there.
Anyway, that's where SHOUP is located.
My map says the population is 12.
However, this was like on the 1960 or 1970 census, so it may have grown some since then.
I was shrunk, yeah.
Twelve people.
I guess you don't have too many phones and even too many party lines.
Or too many conversations.
Thanks so much for calling.
We're out of time.
Oh, too much anyway.
Okay.
Take care.
You too.
All right.
We are just about out of time here.
Before we go, final words from FiberOptic.
What's the future of hacking?
The future of hacking can be grim if people let it disappear from their heads,
but always remember that where there's a computer and a microprocessor, there'll probably be a hacker nearby.
Poetic words to end on.
Thank you very much for stopping by.
This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
I'll be back in two weeks, God willing.
Hopefully, I'm not preempted again.
We'll see you again for another edition of Off the Hook.
Good night.
Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show.
See you then.
I don't know what's wrong with you I don't know what's wrong with you
I don't know what's wrong with you I don't know what's wrong with you
I don't know what's wrong with you I don't know what's wrong with you