WBAI, New York.
This song by Jamaican dub poet Muta Baruca is unofficially banned from the airwaves in Jamaica.
It condemns both of the island's leading politicians to 1,000-year jail sentences for crimes against the people.
On Thursday, July 11th at 10 o'clock p.m., Jamaica's political impasse and its stagnating economic situation will be analyzed by Dr. Basil Wilson of John Jay College.
And Muta Baruca will talk about Jamaican politics and society, the legacy of Bob Marley, the state of reggae music, his new black bookstore, and he'll recite some of his poetry.
That's Thursday, July 11th, 10 o'clock p.m. on the Caribbean and Latin America Report.
But I think we shall deal with the centerpost in the air.
After a little hit, we will deal with religious belief.
All right?
Time for Off the Hook.
Off the Hook.
THE END
the display, I would see commands actually being typed by the line noise. And the computer
would be trying to respond to these commands. But it would barely have time to respond to
the command before the line noise made another pseudo-command be issued. And there was nothing
I could do. I watched while files were actually deleted. And a 300k core file, which if you
don't know what it means, just think that it's something terrible. Or at least something
that's a real pain. I watched as that was created. I watched as all kinds of error messages went
by that I never saw before. And all because of line noise. And I got so frustrated, I banged
my fist on my keyboard. My keyboard! Now, my computer, my telephone, my steering wheel, and
my head all had nothing to do with the nasty events that I was reacting to. Yet, I felt
compelled to take it out on the things that were nearest to me. And I just want to say
that having realized what a horrible thing that was, I feel much better having admitted
it. Always direct your anger at that which is the cause of your anger. I don't quite know
how I'm going to do that with the Unix system, but something will come to mind, no doubt.
But speaking of computer foul-ups, it's been a busy week for phone company people and for
the media trying to get some rumors started that computer hackers were behind all the phone
company problems. Well, as I said to all the people that were calling throughout the week,
hackers didn't do this. No, this was computer programming, or the lack thereof. As I like to
say, incompetence is always one step ahead of ingenuity. And in this particular case, incompetence
won the race hands down. Phone outages didn't affect New York. And the reason for that is that,
uh, allegedly New York is not yet on the, um, switching system seven that, uh, supposed to be
the next best thing to the second coming, but it's actually, uh, proving to be, uh, a real big pain
for a lot of people. You know, system seven also was, uh, behind the AT&T crash spring of 1990. And
well, despite, uh, this is from the UPI today, despite recent massive phone outages, a federal
communications official said today there is no evidence the nation's telecommunications networks
are deteriorating. But other experts predicted more breakdowns are inevitable. Kind of like what
we've been saying here all along. Richard Firestone, chief of the Federal Communication
Commission's Common Carrier Bureau, told a house panel that several cities,
oh, I got lost here. Sorry about that. Told a house panel that the recent disruptions in service to
millions of phone companies in several cities were a byproduct of technological progress
in sophisticated telecommunications systems. If you didn't understand that, basically he's saying
that, uh, it's a screw-up and there's nothing that could have happened. There is no evidence that
the nation's telecommunications networks are degrading. No evidence whatsoever. In fact, he says,
the recent major network service outages have involved the inadvertent side effects of efforts by the
companies to upgrade their long distance and local networks. Can you believe what this man is
saying here? He's saying that, well, because it was part of an upgrade and because the whole system
failed, it's not a problem with the system. The word doublespeak comes to mind here. Anyway,
Firestone said the major outages which disrupted service for as long as eight hours in the Washington
region, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Pittsburgh could largely be prevented through greater
communication, which is kind of hard to do when your phones are out, but never mind that,
greater communication among different levels of the telecommunications industry
about potential problems with various technologies. Again, naive city here. How do you know what the
problems are until they happen? You know, you can say, well, this could happen, but then again,
you don't know what will happen until it does happen. So just planning for potential problems
is really not good enough. There has to be something more. One of the contributors of a two-year-old report
that predicted massive crashes in phone service said more frequent and serious outages are inevitable.
Without independent technologies to back up the highly sophisticated software systems blame for
the recent breakdowns. Amen to that. John McDonald, president of MBX Incorporated, communications
research firm, said there is a growing vulnerability in phone systems and this is going to be the cause
of greater economic destruction. He said the vulnerability stems from both greater centralization of phone
traffic and the extreme sophistication of the software. There is no one who can guarantee that this system
will not fail, McDonald told the subcommittee. It will fail. What is important is that we develop
a backup system. But our friend Mr. Firestone says that's an impossible solution because of the high cost
of an independent backup system. That's right. It costs too much, so we're not going to back up the phone system.
This is the mentality that goes into designing things without thinking of humans. We're not talking about a computer system.
We're not talking about IBM being offline for six hours. We're talking about human beings just like you and me.
And yes, our system will go down for six hours, but our system is our telephone. Our system is our dial tone.
Our system is everybody we know. It's emergency calls, incoming calls.
Apparently what they're saying here is that it's an acceptable risk rather than spend a little money and have an adequate system.
Telephones have to be up 24 hours a day. They can't go down for maintenance. They can't go down as a result of problems like we've been seeing.
Firestone continues, the question is how much cost will be imposed on every consumer of telephone service for what level of reliability.
Representative Robert Weiss of West Virginia says it's going to be hard to get people to accept the fact
that there are going to be more and more outages and that we have to accept this as progress.
Weiss also criticized Firestone for suggesting that businesses and institutions needing absolute telephone reliability
would purchase expensive backup systems on their own.
The position you are taking, Weiss told Firestone, is if you want protection, go buy it.
And he also added that failed to address private citizens dialing 911 or small businesses that need phones.
It's incredible what can happen if there isn't a bit of sanity injected into the proceedings.
We certainly have a lack of sanity recently. That's for darn sure here.
From the Los Angeles Times, this was before certain facts were known.
The massive telephone failures in the Los Angeles and Washington areas earlier, two weeks ago actually,
stem from glitches in a specialized computer network that shuttles information about calls
between telephone companies switching offices.
The inherent complexity of an increasingly software-based phone system
raises the prospect that the public telephone service
may be inherently less reliable in the future than it has been in the past.
Pacific Bells said that it had suspended further deployment of signaling System 7
until the exact cause of the problem could be identified.
It appeared that the L.A. and Washington problems were not identical,
but both were attributed to breakdowns in the SS-7 equipment supplied by DSC Communications of Dallas.
Now, when the System 7, switching System 7, malfunctions,
it begins sending incorrect information all over the network.
Ross Ireland, general manager for network services at Pacific Bell,
said one of the more recent incidents was caused by a signaling system unit in downtown Los Angeles
that inexplicably began sending out a flurry of wrong information about problems in the network
and ultimately shut itself down.
Then, there was a cascade effect in which the other signaling system units began acting on the incorrect information.
Finally, when people tried to make calls and couldn't,
they kept trying, which created an abnormally high level of calling traffic
and thus further exacerbated the problem.
Sounds kind of like, uh...
You've seen Terminator 2?
Skynet?
You know, uh...
Intelligent computers gaining sort of a consciousness of their own, linking together.
Well, here we have linking together and, uh...
Sort of a...
A mass brain death, I guess.
Works both ways.
At the time, Terry Adams, uh...
This is from the New York Times, June 28th.
Terry Adams, a spokesman at the DSC Communications Corporation,
which made both systems,
said company officials also discounted any connection between the failures.
Well, guess what?
That's completely changed.
Today's New York Times.
A manufacturer of telephone call routing computers said today,
actually yesterday,
that a defect in three or four lines of computer code,
rather than a hacker or a computer virus,
appeared to be the culprit behind a mysterious spate of breakdowns
that disrupted local telephone service for 10 million customers around the country
in late June and early July.
An official of the manufacturer DSC Communications of Plano, Texas,
said all the problems had been traced to recent upgrades in its software.
And that, uh...
Recent upgrade had not been thoroughly tested for hidden bugs.
Now, it's incredible
how everybody sort of joins hands on this
and says, let's all be, uh, incompetent together.
Not testing software that's going to be responsible for
billions of, uh, telephone calls?
Well, I guess these things happen, huh?
Although the telephone companies had experienced failures
were using slightly different versions of the software,
each version was infected with the flaw, the company said.
Our equipment was without question
a major contributor to the disruptions,
said, uh, Frank Perpigliglia,
or something like that,
DSC's Vice President for Technology and Product Development.
We must be forthright in accepting responsibility for failure.
He said the glitch was introduced
when his company made a minor modification in the program
that runs its sophisticated car-routing computers,
which are used by five of the seven regional Bell companies.
In making what seemed to be an innocuous change, he said,
DSC dropped several algorithms or processing instructions
that apparently caused the computers to go berserk
when they experienced routine malfunctions.
And, of course, troubling questions remain.
It's still unclear whether the highly complex computer systems
that run today's telephone networks
have been tested rigorously enough.
Officials at DSC admitted
that they had not put the software upgrade
through a customary, uh, 13-week test
because the change
entailed
only a few lines of new code.
In hindsight,
Mr. Perpiglia said,
that was a huge mistake.
Well, uh,
it's a mistake millions of people had to live with,
and
mistakes are being made even as we speak.
What is the solution?
Well, the solution, obviously,
is not to, uh,
be so blind to the potential problems
and to realize that
if something can go wrong,
it will go wrong.
And that's why
backups are such a good idea.
Not just backups of data,
but backup systems
in case there's something inherently wrong
with the system you are using.
Now, as I mentioned earlier,
uh,
locally, we're not affected by this yet.
New York City is not, uh,
on Switching System 7,
but it will be.
It's only a matter of time.
Switching System 7 is, uh,
supposedly going to, uh,
bring all kinds of miraculous things to us,
such as
caller ID
and, uh,
Annie
and all that kind of neat stuff.
So,
our phones will be more intelligent.
We just won't be able to use them as much.
Now,
according to the Associated Press,
this is a different story,
Mitsubishi is suing
AT&T.
Why?
Well, they're suing them over a, uh,
PBX system that was broken into by hackers
who made thousands of illegal calls worldwide.
That's something we actually talked about earlier.
Uh,
Mitsubishi contends that
AT&T's System 85
private branch exchange
is not secure
and that AT&T failed
to warn Mitsubishi
of the potential
for unauthorized use.
And Mitsubishi is seeking
$10 million in punitive damages
and a dismissal
of $430,000
billed
for 30,000 phone calls,
which
Mitsubishi attributes
to unauthorized users.
You know,
this is one of these rare
occasions where I have to take
AT&T's side.
I mean,
Mitsubishi is, uh,
a fairly big company.
They're supposed to be
intelligent.
And if they don't know
how to secure
their own phone system,
I don't think, uh,
blaming
the manufacturer
for not telling you
is, uh,
the answer in this case.
Yes, I can see that
for an individual.
For somebody that buys
an answering machine
and finds out that there's, uh,
a one-digit code security feature on it
and that anybody
can break in
and listen to your messages
and change your outgoing messages.
Yeah, that's something
that I think, uh,
the company should be
held accountable for.
But Mitsubishi,
for God's sake,
they should know
how to secure
a phone system.
And just blaming AT&T,
that's, uh,
that just sounds like, uh,
they're trying to pass
the buck.
Now, quite the different case
in London.
A director of video films
is embroiled in a dispute
with British Telecom
over an 8,000-pound bill.
And if I'm not mistaken,
that's about $12,000.
8,000-pound bill
after becoming a victim
of hackers.
And, uh,
according to the London Times,
hackers are people
who steal computer passwords
to break into
international databases
and use services illegally.
Well, that's not
my definition of hackers,
and I don't think
that's very many, uh,
people's definition
of what a hacker is.
George Snow says
the bill will ruin him.
Experts say the case
highlights increasing concern
over one of Britain's
most under-reported crimes.
For several years,
Mr. Snow has kept
abreast of developments
in 3D computer graphics
by using access
to an American
information service
called CompuServe.
To cut costs,
he became a customer
of BT's,
British Telecom's,
Dial Plus service,
which allows customers
to connect their office
or home computers
to international databases
for the price of a local
rather than an international call.
Mr. Snow,
who has directed programs
for England's Channel 4
and the Arts Council,
and his pop video credits
include Howard Jones,
had found the service useful
and inexpensive
until recently.
My quarterly bill
would be around
30 pounds,
said the director,
whose company,
WKBC-TV,
is based in
West London.
Mr. Snow,
aged 42,
now faces a big
unscheduled bill
for calls he never made.
It appears
that hackers
illegally obtained
Mr. Snow's password
and British Telecom agrees.
But the dispute
is about
who pays
the 5,500 pounds
and 2,500 pounds
which have been
run up in recent months.
British Telecom says
Mr. Snow chose
a password
that hackers
could easily borrow.
He says
that the company
has a responsibility
to ensure
its networks are secure.
To clock up
8,000 pounds
worth of bills,
you have to be talking
about someone
using the service
24 hours a day,
day in and day out,
he said.
Mr. Snow says
that British Telecom
approved his password
which was Superman.
The company says
Mr. Snow was warned
that his account
was running up
huge bills
in early February
but that it was
sometime later
that the password
was changed.
David Frost,
a computer security expert
with accountants
Price Waterhouse,
said,
the amount
of hacking
taking place
in Britain
was being
seriously
underplayed
by companies.
British Telecom
rejects suggestions
that it is
cavalier with security.
A spokesman said
the company
would write
to Mr. Snow
this week.
He says
he will fight
British Telecom
in court
if it prosecutes him.
8,000 pounds
is about 10%
of my turnover.
Now that's a case
where it's justified
to blame
the bigger
entity here
because obviously
they could have
done something
to help this person.
This is a person,
this is not a huge
company that
should have the expertise
to know how to
secure their systems.
To hold somebody
that responsible
for 8,000 pounds
worth of usage
is
unconscionable
in my
view.
And a couple
of final stories.
In the July 2nd
Washington Post
there is a note
that the government's
war on drugs
is being seriously
impeded by having
to rely on more
than 100 different
computer systems.
That's according
to a report
of the General
Accounting Office.
Many of the computers
cannot communicate.
Also,
the government
has no measures
for ensuring
that its information
is correct
and that its systems
are protected
from outsiders.
In other words,
they don't know
what they're doing.
But one thing
they know they want
is an integrated
system that has
all the information
tied up into
one nice,
neat file.
Well,
we won't have to
hold our breath
for too long.
Finally,
from the Washington
Post,
a rather interesting
story from
Bogota,
Colombia.
Did you hear
about this one?
The approval
of Colombia's
new constitution,
which modernizes
the nation's
judicial,
political,
and economic
structures,
is in jeopardy
because a computer
apparently ate
the text.
So much for
modernization.
The committee
writing the final
version was to
turn over the text
for final voting
on Wednesday.
However,
a technician
storing the material
in a computer
borrowed from the
office of the
presidency erased
or lost the
final document
after many of
the papers
with the drafts
of the articles
had been thrown
away.
We literally
have people
going through
trash cans
looking for
scraps of paper,
said one source
close to the
process.
We do not know
how this was
allowed to happen
and we have
lost an almost
vital three days.
We cannot debate
or vote on a text
we do not have
in front of us.
While there are
different versions
of how the
computer foul-up
occurred,
sources said
a member of
the codification
committee refused
to allow technicians
from the office
of the president
to have access
to the computer,
fearing that some
of the material
could be pirated
or changed.
Instead,
he had a nephew
hired to do
the computer work.
It turned out
that the nephew
had only taken
a one-year
correspondence course
in computer
programming.
And so it goes.
You're listening
to Off the Hook.
This is Emmanuel
Goldstein.
And we're talking
about high-tech.
It's fun
and it's abuses.
Of which there are
many.
And coming up next,
we'll be speaking
to a man upstate
in New York
who's causing
quite a bit
of consternation
with the phone
company,
but also providing
what could be
a very valuable
service to people.
His name is
Joel Shapiro.
He's the developer
of the Gabriel
Voice Mailbox
Messaging Forwarding
I'm sorry,
Gabriel Voice
Mailbox
Message Forwarding
System.
Real mouthful there.
He's a certified
reseller.
And what that
means is that
he subscribes
to a telephone
company's services
at a bulk
rate price
and then he
resells it
to customers
at a profit.
There's a tariff
on what
Gabriel Systems
is doing
and those prices
are regulated
by the Public
Service Commission
and nothing
about the practice
is illegal.
Rochester Telephone,
which is the
local company
up there,
has an agreement
to sell services
to the Gabriel
System.
And according
to them,
we lease him
certain kinds
of facilities
and that's
about as far
as I can go,
said a spokeswoman
for Rochester Tele.
What Shapiro does
is he buys
local phone lines
from Rochester Tele
and through the
use of a computer
makes the toll call
from one part
of the state
to another part
of the state
a series of
local ones.
Therefore,
a person making
a phone call
that ordinarily
would cost him
a certain amount
of money
actually winds
up paying
much less
because they're
not making
the phone call
in the traditional
way.
Well, we have
Joel Shapiro
hopefully still
on the phone line
with us.
Are you there,
Joel?
Yes, I am.
Would you
care to explain
what is it
exactly that
your system does?
Okay,
when you're
talking about
the telephone
system,
since 1984,
a lot of
things have
been happening
and it's
much more
than from
the long
distance aspect
of you have
a lot of
different phone
companies.
When phone
companies were
broken up
according to
the deregulation
procedures or
deregulation
mandates,
you can put
different kinds
of equipment
on them.
Of course,
we all know
that we have
voice mailbox
systems and
computers we
can put on
the telephone
lines.
Now, what
happens is
that this
computer system
that I've
programmed uses
a voice
synthesizer board
with telephone
functions like
a Watson board
or a
dialogic board
and it
controls either
a three-way
calling or
a Centrex
phone line.
So what
happens is
that the
computer is
performing
operator
functions.
So when
you have
different local
calling areas
that are next
to each other
that can locally
call each other,
let's call three
different local
calling areas in
a row, A, B,
and C.
A can call B
locally and B
can call C
locally, but A
and C are long
distance to each
other.
What my system
does, located
in B, makes a
local call
connection between
A and C.
So A and C
are talking to
each other over
two local
linkages.
And you've
checked into
this and this
is completely
legal, it's not
violating any
kind of...
Legal.
Where you
cross a
boundary of
illegality is
if you say,
okay, I'm
going to have
a computer
system and
then I'm
going to get
subscribers on
the computer
system and
then you start
charging money
for more than
the cost of
the call.
And even if
you're not
charging money,
there's still
usage considerations
that you have to
look into.
Now, in the
state of New
York, you have
to be tariffed
and certified by
the commission as
a reseller, which
is not a very big
ordeal.
It sounds worse
than it is.
If you go to
Pennsylvania or
New Jersey, you
can put out your
shingle, set up a
computer system, and
you don't have to
report to any
commission.
However, if you
go to California
and you want to
offer to the
public at large,
no can do
because there
they have
different considerations
on why local
exchange carrier or
regular phone
service can be
resold in the
same manner
that I'm doing.
So in the
northeastern part
of the United
States, even
Massachusetts, I
believe, you can
do the same thing
as I'm doing
here in New
York.
You can really
really bypass
tolls.
Now, what
happens is that
the local
line's cost,
like a business
call across the
street, a
cost of those
calls is nowhere
near the
regional or
intralata long
distance costs.
Now, if you
have a business
and you set a
computer system
like mine up,
if you're an
insurance company
over a wide
area of, let's
say, all of New
York City and
Long Island,
then you are
not dealing
with a U.S.
Sprint or an
MCI or an
AT&T for those
intralata calls.
You're dealing
with New York
telephone.
And there is
nothing in the
books or anything
that's perfectly
legal for you to
set up your own
toll bypass
network using a
system like I've
developed.
That's very
important because
up until now
there has been
no alternative
to speak of
to a local
phone company.
That is correct.
Everybody says,
oh boy, the
phone company is
going to get
after you and
they're going to
be mad at you.
Well, this
does all have to
do with the
freedoms that was
given under
deregulation in
1984.
Now, you're
under Rochester
Tel, which is not
part of 9X or
New York Telephone.
That's correct.
Now, has
anybody tried
this in New
York Telephone
Turf?
Not to my
knowledge.
They're, okay,
I know of
another company
that has a
similar kind of
device in the
state of
Washington where
they perform
similar kind of
Centrex bypass
functions.
But in the
state of
Washington, with
their EAS
configuration,
extended area
service configuration,
the public
service commission
there said, if
you're going to
resell this to
the public at
large, you're
going to have to
pay access
charges.
And that kind
of put a
damper on, you
know, the
attractiveness of
the money they
were going to
save.
Give us an
example of what
kind of money
we're talking
about here.
Okay.
Let's see.
If you, you
know, I don't
really know New
York City
geography, but
in Rochester, the
Rochester City is
one big local
calling area.
It's kind of like
you think of New
York City as one
local calling area.
It's probably
divided up.
Right next to
Rochester is a
local calling area
called Farmington.
And then right
next to Farmington,
one step over, is
Canandaigua.
It's one of the
Finger Lakes.
Okay.
Now what happens
is that Farmington
is local to both
Rochester and
Canandaigua.
However, between
Rochester and
Canandaigua, it's
regional long
distance.
On the day rate
between Rochester
and Canandaigua is
55 cents for three
minutes.
It's about 20, you
know, I don't
know, you figure it
out how many, how
many cents it is
per minute.
Using my system, it
will cost you nine
cents.
For the same time
period, three
minutes.
Nine cents for
three minutes as
opposed to 55.
So that's an
example of pretty
incredible savings, I
guess.
Oh, yes.
Now, what happens
is that when you
take my system to
Pennsylvania, the
results are even
more dramatic.
I'll give you an
example.
When you make a
call there versus
Rochester, there are
no subsequent minute
costs.
For instance, the
local charges in
Rochester is 7.5
cents for the first
three minutes and
2.2 cents every
minute after that.
Now, I said 9
cents because I
have to recover the
cost of billing, but
that's another story.
The main thing is
that there are
subsequent minute
costs here in
Rochester.
So if I talk for an
hour, it's going to
cost me a buck or
two, a buck 20 or
something like that.
But in Philadelphia, if
I place a 7-cent call,
there's no subsequent
minute cost.
I can keep that line
open indefinitely if
we're 7 cents.
So what happens is
that if I make this
toll bypass linkage in
Pennsylvania, you can
theoretically keep that
on for 7 cents forever.
And this is, would this
only be from
Philadelphia or would
this be from
Rochester to
Philadelphia?
Oh, no.
This would be if a
system was located in
the metro Philadelphia
area or within the
suburban area.
Well, now, how far do
you think it can go
towards linking of
different systems around
the country so that
what you're trying to
do can be spread around?
what happens is that
this takes advantage of
a crease in the
regional calling area.
When you're talking
about long distance,
then you'd have to
talk about establishing
links across the
country, and then the
whole system really
breaks down because all
the local links
concatenated together
would break down, and
it would be too much
of a mess to take
care of the system
and make it feasible.
Plus, it would
probably take a long
time to connect.
So this is kind of
addressing.
And that the long
distance companies do
not touch, they don't
compete on an
intra-lotter basis
with the New York
telephones or
Bell PAs.
And it's interesting,
too, because I've
noticed that in many
cases, local calls,
calls within a state
or within a region,
cost more than calls
from coast to coast.
Right.
And I wondered why
that is.
Why is that?
Because you're talking
about intra-state.
And what happens is
that there's certain,
I guess, public service
commissions, every state
has different mandates
and rulings, you know,
on how telecommunications
will be conducted, and
they have certain, I
guess, taxes or
something they want to
recover for intra-state
calls because they
regulate those calls.
Right.
Now, my system, again,
is on an intra-latta
basis.
So you can think of my
system being used in a
New York metropolitan area
in Long Island versus
New York to Philadelphia.
However, if you have
enough people calling
into the Gabriel system
on a long-distance basis,
then the volume goes up
because of all the people
contributing their volumes
or their calling traffic,
and then you get lower
rates.
I see.
So when you're talking
about long-distance,
the, I guess, the
magnitude of the savings
is not as great, but
they're still great if you
consider the volume
discount.
Well, I think starting
out locally is a good
idea, though.
Right.
There's less risk because
if you set up in
Philadelphia at seven
cents and you make
those linkages, then
what happens is that if
you get a hacker in
there, the worst he's
going to do to you is
seven cents worth of
damage versus perhaps
hundreds of thousands
of dollars.
Now, do you have any
idea what they would
charge for a regular
phone call in
Philadelphia as opposed
to seven cents?
In Philadelphia, it's
different than the, how
can I say, every LADA
and every local exchange
carrier sets their rates
and their calling patterns
up differently.
Now, what they have in
there in Philadelphia is
what you call an EAS area
so that your seven-digit
number that you dial can
either be a local call,
like across the street, a
kind of a mini toll call,
or an actual toll call.
So, when you get your
Bella Pennsylvania bill,
you'll have local charges,
suburban long-distance
charges, and actual toll
charges all from seven-digit
numbers.
If you, by chance, make a
mistake dialing with, you
know, maybe one of your
exchanges, you might well
make up, you might well get
a toll bill from Bella
Pennsylvania.
And it's quite different
if you try to recover a
wrong number from Bella
Pennsylvania and say, I'm
sorry, you just got to
dial better.
Whereas with a long-distance
company, because you have
other options of going to
another carrier, they're
going to say, oh, yeah,
we'll give you the credit
because we'd rather have
you with half your
business versus you going
to another Sprint or an
MCI.
The spirit of competition.
Right.
With Bella Pennsylvania,
there's no competition so
they can go play hard body
on it.
You know what I mean?
Right.
So what kind of savings
are we talking about in
the Philadelphia area?
That's what I'm thinking.
Okay, now, it depends on
how long you want to make
your call, but it's going
to be much more than 80%
that I talked about with
Rochester Telephone because
some of the toll calls,
they are like 15 cents for
the first minute and six
cents subsequent minutes.
So if you had a linkage
established, you know, the
savings can be in the
hundreds and thousands of
dollars depending on how
long you want to keep
your call going.
I see.
It's something that has
never, as to my knowledge,
has never been addressed
or has never been
implemented by anyone
really but myself.
And all, you know, like I
wrote to all the public
service commissions
across the country.
Why do you suppose it is
that nobody else has done
this yet?
Well, there's a little,
okay, first you have the
technology is that
relatively speaking, the
voice boards and the
computers, you know, were
expensive only until maybe
recently, like within the
last few years.
Another thing is there's a
certain amount of risk that
you have with hackers that
can get in and perhaps, you
know, what I have here is an
enhanced diesel system.
So I had to program in a lot
of features that would, you
know, put a damper on, you
know, hackers trying to get in
and breaking into people's
codes because...
How long are the codes?
Okay, right now I program
them for six digits but with
more subscribers and, you
know, I'm planning to go up to
at least seven or eight and
also I answer with silence
which would give, you know,
a hacker not much to go on.
Well, you see, once the
number is known, I mean,
they'll know that that
number is, you know, a
particular kind of system.
Yeah.
So the silence won't really
help as far as that goes
but six digits should be
enough initially.
Right.
What you don't want is the
kind of system that allows
you to just keep trying over
and over again.
Well, another thing to do
is that I can program in,
you know, I'm programming in
different levels of security
depending on how the
subscriber wants his
service.
For instance, you might
want to know how many
attempts have been made on
your voicemail box.
Right.
Or not on your voicemail box
but on your subdirectory.
Okay.
So what happens is that if
you had three or four
attempts per hour, that's
too many and it'll shut
your system down.
So you would be the one
controlling, you know, how
many calls would be able to
go through.
I see.
Now you're going to show us
how the system works,
actually, on the telephone.
Can you explain what you're
going to do?
The first is that I will be
putting you on a hold.
You'll be hearing silence.
And I'm going to be dialing
up my system.
And when I flash hook back,
provided I don't hang you up,
this is something I wanted to
get across first, then you'll
hear beeps.
And I'm going to be putting in
my passcode and dialing my
voicemail box.
So you can think of me being
in local area A, and I'm
calling my computer, which is
in local area B that I gave
an example of before, and my
voicemail box would be in
local area C.
So when everything is all
through, I'm going to be
talking to my voicemail box
over local charges rather than
long-distance charges.
And can you tell us exactly
what that call is going to
cost you and what it would
cost you if you had dialed
that number direct?
Okay.
If I dialed that number
direct, then that cost, you
know, at the night rate, I
don't really know what the
night rates are, but I know
for the day rate, that call
would have cost me 55 cents
for three minutes, where it
would be costing me nine cents
for three minutes.
Okay.
Why don't you go ahead with
that demonstration?
Let me give you out the
phone number.
If I get disconnected, you
call me back, and we'll try
again.
Okay.
I'll be putting on the
phone now, and I'll give
right back to you.
Okay.
We're speaking with Joel
Shapiro, who is using his
imagination to bypass the
local phone company.
We'll be taking calls at 212-279-3400,
just a matter of a moment, so
please give a call if you have
some questions.
Are you with me?
Yes, I am.
Okay.
And I hear the beeps.
I put in my passcode, and I
put in the number I was
dialing.
Okay.
Five seconds or so for your
call to be transferred.
That's your computer talking.
That's correct.
All right.
It is now performing a
Centrex transfer.
About how long does that
take?
Oh, hello.
My name is Joel Shapiro, and
I'm the developer of the
Gabriel System.
Okay.
That was a perfect
demonstration.
Toll bypass services.
Okay.
Now, I can talk over this.
I am talking to my voicemail
box now.
I'll be able to charge it
for the first three minutes
for a call from Rod
And the computer is not a
part of this conversation.
The computer is now waiting
for another call.
Let me disconnect this, and I'll
get right back to you.
Okay.
For more.
Hello.
Yes.
Okay.
That was quite impressive.
It sounded like a good
connection.
A little piece of connection
right there seemed perhaps a
little bit inconvenient, but
the money you're saving is
substantial, very, very
substantial.
So, if I had this particular
service, I would call a
pre-designated number.
That's correct.
I would hear those little
beeps, and I would enter my
code, followed by the number
that I wanted to call, the
seven-digit number I wanted to
call, and then it would
connect me to that, and I
would be connected as if it
were a local call, even
though it would actually cost
significantly more with the
local phone company if I
dialed it direct.
Now, the wondrous thing about
this whole operation is that
it's perfectly legal to
establish it for your own
purposes, and in the state
of New York, if you want to
take this system and resell it
to the public at large, all you
have to do is get a
certificate and make a tariff.
This all sounds complicated, but
it's really not.
And what I wanted, my basic
motivation in talking is to
say, look, here's an
opportunity to really not take
advantage of the phone company
to hurt them, but I'm saying
is that you're buying service
from them, and they are making
money from your local calls.
Let's say you had a phone, you
know, a telephone number from a
business phone from a New York
telephone.
You never made a long-distance
call on it.
That phone line should still be
profitable to New York
telephone.
Now, they're making their money
with you both ways, but they're
just getting it from you with my
service at a slower rate.
That's all.
But they're still making money
with it.
You're using some imagination to
pass some savings along to
people, and I think that's
commendable.
Hopefully, this will become a
bit more streamlined and easy to
use for people that don't, you
know, usually use these kind of
things.
But I think we're seeing the
infancy of this.
What you can do is if you had a
telephone with, like, an
automatic dialer, what you do is
you put the Gabriel system or your
system's number in it, put some
pauses in, your passcode, and then,
you know, it dials it automatically,
and all you have to do is put your
number in, you're on.
So a lot of the subscribers in my
system here in Rochester use that
technique, and it works for them.
Okay, I'm going to start taking some
phone calls now, 212-279-3400.
Let me warn everybody, though, that
our phone system here isn't all that
sophisticated, so you might have some
trouble hearing each other.
Okay.
But please be patient, and we'll take
some questions here for Joel Shapiro.
212-279-3400 is the phone number.
Good evening.
You're on.
Yes, I'm a recent listener to your
program, and I'm calling to ask about
a problem I've been having with my
telephone answering machine.
Well, is this related to the questions
we're taking right now?
It's a general question.
Okay, can I ask you to save it for a
future show, then, only because we
only have a certain amount of time, and
we do want to talk about this
particular topic.
Okay.
All right?
Okay, bye-bye.
Okay.
Good evening.
Hello, are you there?
Hi, yeah, I'm right here.
Great program.
First question, what size computer is
he using?
Second question, would he be willing to
train or facilitate the training for
other people out of his area?
And third question, what language
programming, what program language did
he use?
And I'll hang up and listen.
Okay.
The computer that I use is just a
regular off-the-shelf IBM AT-class
computer.
I use a C programming language, you know,
for the board.
I use the minimal amount of equipment to
perform these kind of functions, because you
really don't want to have a multi-line board,
because if a 386 or 486 machine goes down, just
like your fancy-dancy ISDN, you know, telephone
system, the whole thing shuts down.
Whereas if you have a lot of XTs or ATs in a row with these
little one-line Watson boards, then you have a system that, you
know, the other computers can take over the slack if one breaks down.
And I'd be more than, I'd be most willing to, you know, establish systems on a private
basis in other cities and, you know, on private arrangements.
And I can remotely program the computer, you know, with updates via modem.
And it's very easy to do, and so it takes all the worry about, you know,
establishing it and taking care of it and maintaining it on your own.
Okay.
We'll be giving out a phone number and address at the end of the program.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
Is this BAI?
Yes, it is.
You're on.
Hi, I have a question on how is the service marketed and how does he bill for the calls
themselves?
I'll hang up and listen.
Okay.
Okay.
How I bill is I don't have the resources right now for magnetic tape.
There are certain phone companies that give you floppy disk call detail.
When I perform these Centrex transfers, it's kind of like a surprise at the end of the
month, you know, your usage.
So you kind of have to rely on the computer to give you a track of who's calling and how
many attempts, what have you.
So I really had to make a lot in the way of security, you know, to the best of my abilities
to make it as secure a system as possible.
Now, what happens is that when I get the detail at the end of the month from the phone
company, I take a scanner, you know, which is pretty accurate, and I scan the phone bill
and that does an optical character realization or, you know, and then I get a text file and
hello, and then I match that up with the call records from the computer and then sort the
bills out.
And it works very, very well.
It works very good.
And I wrote the software for the comparison.
I see.
Now about the marketing.
Okay.
Now the marketing, I don't really have the resources to advertise.
I had to buy the, you know, I kind of like started from scratch in this whole thing, and
I put the whole farm in this project.
And I really don't have a marketing arm yet.
Mostly it's just from word of mouth, and I believe with the right coordination, this kind
of a concept should really take off because the phone toll bypass aspect of my system only
scratches the surface of what this whole thing is about.
We're talking about enhanced services, gateway to 900 numbers, and I can go on and on, but
this toll bypass concept is the easiest to understand.
And if I start talking about enhanced information services, it kind of gets off into tangents that
it's interesting, but it's not as identifiable or you can't really identify with them, you
know, on a simple basis as this toll bypass.
Let's take another call.
Okay.
Good evening.
Hi.
Oh, I just love this show.
Mr. Shapiro, can you tell us, coming to New Jersey soon with this whole thing?
Because this is like a dream come true to me.
Well, I've been trying to make contacts in New Jersey, you know, for people that, you
know, would be interested in my system and to establish it there.
I am really interested in establishing this in all these states like New Jersey, New York,
Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, Maryland, because these states, the regulatory
freedoms that I have is so great.
Now, this system is very easy to implement and, you know, it's not going to be a whole big red tape issue.
It's not going to be a very complicated thing.
You know, you just kind of like order it, set it up, use it.
And, you know, what happens is I haven't really gotten the pricing on the whole system on a private basis because I've been actually using this on a service.
So, like, I would, what I'm looking for is I would establish it for people and then I can maintain it remotely here from Rochester so you won't have to worry about the software maintaining it yourself because, you know, if I'm going to sell you something, I want it to work for you.
Yeah, well, you've got your first subscriber here.
Wow.
Well, it sounds just wonderful because most of my calling, I do have a very small business.
Yes.
Most of it is done intrastate.
Now, you have to realize that this system that I'm talking about has, it's kind of like two aspects.
One is a long-distance aspect where the savings are good but they're not great as an area.
Like, for instance, if you're in the Newark area and then you're going to the outskirt regions.
What this does is give you, like, one step forward of the calling power that you had from before.
And there's a lot of other features with my system but when I talk about long distance, people often confuse that with statewide calling or, you know, you know, and I have to always tell you, you know, like, there's limits.
Like, I'm working within a crease and when you're talking about too far out, the crease goes away.
So, I have things that will help you but it's kind of like if you're calling all around the state, I won't, you won't get the dramatic savings I was talking about except on a metropolitan area.
Let me just ask one more question then we're going to have to call it a night.
Okay.
Now, we're talking about linking from A to B to C.
Right.
Do you envision a day when we can link A to B to C to D?
Yes.
Now, what that does is, okay, there's a gray area on telephone service where...
You'll have to say this in about 20 seconds, actually.
All right.
The thing is you have to use residential home service and that can be, you know, then the phone company may put the foot down if you abuse that where if you go and link so far out on one residential line to another residential line to another residential line, you know, you might be in a problem with the phone company although they never really addressed it.
I see.
Well, something we'll certainly be addressing in the future.
Do you want to give us a phone number if people are interested in getting more information?
My voicemail box in Rochester is 716-987-7498.
Okay.
And an address that people can write to?
Post office box 14178, Rochester, New York, 14614-0178.
Okay.
And that should be addressed to Gabriel Systems?
Yes.
Joel Shapiro.
Okay.
Joel, I want to thank you very much for taking the time.
And I wish you luck on this.
Please keep us updated as to how it progresses.
And I'm sure we'll be reading more about it in the newspapers.
Yes.
So I will be an intervener in the New York State caller ID proceedings, and my system does have to do with caller identification.
So down there in New Jersey, where you do have caller identification, my system has things to do with that.
Well, that's a whole other kettle of fish.
But thanks very much for being a part of the program tonight.
And that is off the hook for this week.
We'll be back again next Wednesday night at 9 o'clock.
Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show.
Emmanuel Goldstein, good night.
We'll be back again next week.
And next up, it's the Personal Computer Show.
First, a message.
First, a message.
First, a message.