Off The Hook - 1991-07-31

[00:07.870 --> 00:10.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:10.650 --> 00:12.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:13.710 --> 00:15.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: I cut myself off shaving.
[00:16.410 --> 00:18.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now I can't make a cough.
[00:19.010 --> 00:20.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't get much worse.
[00:21.570 --> 00:23.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: But if I could, I would.
[00:23.630 --> 00:26.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I'd be the bomb for the best to stay for us.
[00:26.870 --> 00:28.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: I hope I've done this good.
[00:28.890 --> 00:29.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I'd be the bomb!
[00:37.010 --> 00:39.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a very good evening to one and all.
[00:39.790 --> 00:41.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[00:41.450 --> 00:43.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: The program is off the hook.
[00:44.270 --> 00:53.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: We come your way every week, Wednesday nights from 9 to 10, talking about telephone technology, computers, hackers, and phone freaks.
[00:53.950 --> 00:57.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: This week we have, I guess, kind of an unusual program for you.
[00:57.810 --> 00:59.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have a special guest here.
[00:59.650 --> 01:08.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: Who is somebody that I've known for quite some time, but as is the way with computer hackers and phone freaks, we've never actually met.
[01:09.130 --> 01:13.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, what's interesting here is I'm not exactly sure how I should introduce this person.
[01:13.330 --> 01:22.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, what I will do is, I will tell you simply that this person is located in Texas, and ask him to introduce himself as he sees fit.
[01:23.130 --> 01:23.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[01:24.050 --> 01:28.890]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, this is Mr. French here in an unknown place in Texas.
[01:28.890 --> 01:32.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, I should relate the story as to how you got the name of Mr. French.
[01:32.850 --> 01:34.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's certainly not from Family Affair.
[01:35.590 --> 01:39.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: And this goes back to my active hacking days.
[01:39.810 --> 01:48.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's go back to a computer system, or a computerized telephone system, one of the first of its kind back in the early 80s.
[01:48.110 --> 01:54.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: How many people out there have ever played with something called the IBM Audio Distribution System?
[01:55.550 --> 01:56.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Anybody out there?
[01:56.510 --> 01:57.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's see a show of hands.
[01:58.250 --> 02:03.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: ADS systems, they were called, which is pretty silly, actually, because the last letter stood for system anyway.
[02:05.030 --> 02:12.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: I discovered one of those one day while I was scanning out the 800 exchange of my choice.
[02:12.910 --> 02:18.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, you dial an 800 number, you dial 800, you know, 444-1212.
[02:18.810 --> 02:21.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: It would ring, somebody would pick up, say, Avis Rent-A-Car, whatever.
[02:22.130 --> 02:23.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: You'd say, sorry, wrong number.
[02:23.590 --> 02:25.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or, if you were more rude, you would hang up.
[02:25.410 --> 02:30.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Then you would dial 444-1213, and then 1214, 1215.
[02:31.230 --> 02:39.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes you would get a computer tone, and if you did that, you'd, you know, if you had a computer, you would get your computer out and call it that way and see what kind of computer tone it was.
[02:40.350 --> 02:49.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, in this particular case, this particular case, I dialed a number, and I was greeted by a female recording saying, Please key press your last name.
[02:50.230 --> 02:51.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: And so, I did that.
[02:51.890 --> 02:59.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: I entered my last name using the Touch-Tone keys, you know, the letters on the Touch-Tone keypad, and it spat out a name at me.
[02:59.130 --> 03:02.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: It wasn't my name, but it was somebody else's name, and then it asked me for a password.
[03:02.930 --> 03:04.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I was intrigued by this.
[03:04.430 --> 03:06.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: I said, oh, what happens if I get the password right?
[03:06.630 --> 03:07.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: Where do I go?
[03:07.470 --> 03:08.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: What do I get out of this?
[03:09.690 --> 03:12.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, I forget exactly how I was able to do this.
[03:13.150 --> 03:18.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: I figured out that the system belonged to IBM, and I think that was probably my first password was the word IBM.
[03:18.910 --> 03:31.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: IBM, and that got me into this thing called the audio distribution system, a vast network, not as vast as some of today's, but for the time, extremely vast, where you could send voice messages.
[03:31.650 --> 03:33.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: This was something completely new and different to us.
[03:34.210 --> 03:37.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: You could send voice messages to other people that were on the system.
[03:37.390 --> 03:44.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, this thing had an 800 number, so we were able to call it from anywhere in the country and communicate with other people.
[03:44.290 --> 03:46.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, why would we want to communicate with IBM employees?
[03:46.710 --> 03:47.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, we didn't.
[03:47.330 --> 03:48.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: They were pretty boring, actually.
[03:48.850 --> 03:55.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: But we were able to find other people that were interested in obtaining mailboxes on these accounts.
[03:56.190 --> 04:05.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, it wasn't really a question of hurting anybody, because the IBM people that we were using their accounts, they were not using it themselves.
[04:05.590 --> 04:06.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: They were not using them.
[04:06.830 --> 04:13.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, we simply communicated back and forth amongst ourselves, and we figured out ways to use a system that the IBM people never really thought of.
[04:13.870 --> 04:18.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: They looked upon the whole thing as work, and we looked upon it as recreation.
[04:19.290 --> 04:20.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, how does this all tie into Mr. French?
[04:20.890 --> 04:21.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we're getting to that.
[04:22.170 --> 04:29.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: One day, I was on the system, talking back and forth with the different people that were on there, when all of a sudden...
[04:29.110 --> 04:29.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, not all of a sudden.
[04:29.910 --> 04:35.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess I just logged on and found this message from somebody.
[04:35.010 --> 04:35.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: I forget who.
[04:35.710 --> 04:40.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: But it was a message that stood out for some reason.
[04:40.370 --> 04:44.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think it didn't have a return name.
[04:44.630 --> 04:47.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Everybody was assigned a name, and the lady would say your name.
[04:47.750 --> 04:50.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: But this person sent us a message, and he had no name.
[04:51.110 --> 04:53.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, I was intrigued by this.
[04:53.110 --> 04:59.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I replied to the person, and I said, Well, what else can you do besides somehow erase your name?
[04:59.330 --> 05:01.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that started a dialogue going.
[05:01.530 --> 05:05.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: And through that dialogue, I was connected to another group of hackers that was on the same system.
[05:06.550 --> 05:10.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: And one of those hackers is the person who is with us on the phone.
[05:10.530 --> 05:16.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the name Mr. French comes from the name that he appropriated on that particular audio distribution system.
[05:16.630 --> 05:19.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is that somewhat correct, as far as your recollection?
[05:19.750 --> 05:21.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's just about it, as far as I can tell.
[05:22.210 --> 05:22.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[05:23.010 --> 05:28.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, let's talk about those good old IBM ADS encounters.
[05:29.150 --> 05:30.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's quite a system, wasn't it?
[05:30.470 --> 05:32.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they don't make them like they used to.
[05:32.890 --> 05:34.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: You could, uh...
[05:34.050 --> 05:39.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, you could actually take someone else's voicemail message and insert and delete, just like on any word processor.
[05:39.970 --> 05:44.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: You could insert words and take other people's words out and change the sentences around.
[05:45.070 --> 05:46.030]  [SPEAKER_00]: You can't do that anymore.
[05:46.530 --> 05:48.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, maybe you'll be able to do that soon.
[05:48.950 --> 05:50.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, uh, give us an example.
[05:53.250 --> 05:54.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, uh...
[05:54.610 --> 05:55.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see.
[05:56.110 --> 05:56.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh...
[05:56.530 --> 05:58.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody could say, I am an American.
[05:59.930 --> 06:03.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: And you could just say, I American.
[06:03.350 --> 06:04.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's not a very good example.
[06:04.850 --> 06:10.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: But you could actually take enough words out of someone's sentence to change it around and make it...
[06:10.410 --> 06:12.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: make them say something that they, uh...
[06:12.450 --> 06:13.870]  [SPEAKER_00]: ordinarily would not even say.
[06:14.490 --> 06:14.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[06:14.790 --> 06:16.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: How exactly would you be able to do this, though?
[06:17.170 --> 06:19.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it had an insert and delete function.
[06:19.710 --> 06:25.590]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like you could press 1 to add a comment right at the beginning of the message or press 2 to insert it right there.
[06:25.750 --> 06:26.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you could freeze the message.
[06:27.070 --> 06:27.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[06:27.350 --> 06:28.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: I remember that.
[06:28.150 --> 06:28.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know what?
[06:28.670 --> 06:32.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's something that I have not yet seen on, uh, any of the other, like, phone mail systems.
[06:32.870 --> 06:35.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, yeah, you could insert something at any point in the message.
[06:35.590 --> 06:37.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you were able to, uh...
[06:37.390 --> 06:38.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: to duplicate their voice...
[06:38.590 --> 06:40.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: and you're quite good at that, actually, uh...
[06:40.510 --> 06:41.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: you could make them say some...
[06:41.830 --> 06:42.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: some rather interesting things.
[06:43.190 --> 06:44.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, if you had a...
[06:44.170 --> 06:57.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, if you were good at editing, uh, like, say, you could stop it exactly where you wanted it and erase, erase, erase the right amount of words and then scoot the end of the message back and make it bump into the beginning and, uh...
[06:57.990 --> 06:59.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: remove the middle, so to speak.
[06:59.710 --> 07:00.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: You could, uh...
[07:00.750 --> 07:02.130]  [SPEAKER_00]: totally change it around.
[07:02.930 --> 07:03.590]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh...
[07:03.590 --> 07:06.630]  [SPEAKER_00]: you could get people in trouble sending out messages that were...
[07:06.630 --> 07:11.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: you could even make a derogatory message out of one that was not even intended to be derogatory.
[07:11.750 --> 07:12.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh...
[07:12.330 --> 07:16.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: needless to say, if you did that to some IBM employees, you could really cause, uh...
[07:16.390 --> 07:17.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: quite a stir in the, uh...
[07:17.370 --> 07:17.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: in the office.
[07:18.030 --> 07:21.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, I don't think there are any IBM ADS systems still out there.
[07:21.950 --> 07:23.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm doing it myself, calling it an ADS system.
[07:24.870 --> 07:25.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um...
[07:25.230 --> 07:27.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you aware of any remaining ones?
[07:28.030 --> 07:28.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh...
[07:28.390 --> 07:29.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: They seem to have scrapped them all.
[07:30.130 --> 07:30.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[07:30.770 --> 07:31.130]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh...
[07:31.130 --> 07:32.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: They have replaced them with, uh...
[07:32.930 --> 07:34.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: some other type of thing.
[07:35.330 --> 07:36.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not sure...
[07:36.330 --> 07:37.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not even sure what it's called.
[07:37.510 --> 07:39.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: They've made it virtually hacker-proof.
[07:39.510 --> 07:42.550]  [SPEAKER_00]: I have not run into anybody that's been able to crack this type of system.
[07:42.910 --> 07:43.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you talking about...
[07:43.890 --> 07:45.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you talking about phone, though?
[07:45.390 --> 07:48.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: The old ADS was, um...
[07:48.270 --> 07:52.130]  [SPEAKER_00]: You could go step-by-step, and as soon as you turned the wrong way and put the wrong...
[07:52.130 --> 07:59.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, say, if your code was one, two, three, four, five, seven, and you tried to put in one, two, three, four, five, six, it would say invalid password.
[07:59.430 --> 08:01.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: One, two, three, four, five, six.
[08:01.230 --> 08:03.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: And you said, oh, I did something wrong.
[08:03.190 --> 08:06.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: So you'd just change the last one up until it matched.
[08:06.750 --> 08:09.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: And you could eventually scan out someone's password in a matter of seconds.
[08:10.070 --> 08:10.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[08:10.390 --> 08:13.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it was a very simple system to, uh, to work with.
[08:13.330 --> 08:18.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: And also, uh, a lot of the accounts had four different passwords for four different types of users.
[08:18.910 --> 08:23.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: You had your guest, your secretary, your family account, and, uh, your personal account.
[08:23.890 --> 08:25.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you just had...
[08:25.170 --> 08:35.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: happened to have a secretary account which didn't have full privileges, you could just keep changing the secretary password until it said you can't, uh, choose that password because it conflicts with one of your other passwords.
[08:35.390 --> 08:37.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you'd say, hey, I found a password.
[08:37.710 --> 08:41.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you could get it very easily because, uh, all you had to do was change it to three digits.
[08:41.670 --> 08:48.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if the first three digits, uh, uh, matched the first three digits of the other password, uh, you could figure it out, uh, quite easily.
[08:48.450 --> 08:51.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's another voicemail system that works very similar.
[08:51.590 --> 08:56.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have as many privileges, but it, uh, it's called the Express Messenger.
[08:56.610 --> 08:59.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't even know who makes it, but I've run into a thing before.
[08:59.750 --> 09:04.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's another one that guides you into it, tells you what you've just done wrong and you just don't do that again.
[09:05.610 --> 09:14.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, and if you run into a secretary password, it'll let you go through there and hunt around until you find the main password.
[09:14.550 --> 09:15.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[09:15.470 --> 09:16.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's not made by IBM.
[09:16.770 --> 09:18.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure who makes it, though.
[09:18.010 --> 09:22.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, tell us, uh, how you got into this, uh, this ADS system, the one that we met on.
[09:23.310 --> 09:31.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I was talking to some phone enthusiast friends of mine, and there was a phone number in my city.
[09:31.950 --> 09:33.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: There was a weight loss number.
[09:34.150 --> 09:41.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, um, oh, I can't even remember the phone number, but it was like one digit was transposed.
[09:42.010 --> 09:45.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody dialed the number and got, please depress your last name.
[09:46.410 --> 09:50.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the lady told me, that the computer sounded military.
[09:50.650 --> 09:53.590]  [SPEAKER_00]: She said, I think that belongs to a military installation.
[09:54.310 --> 10:00.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I, I got on here, I got on the system and found out that it was some sort of a weird voicemail system.
[10:00.610 --> 10:06.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I learned how to record a message and send it to myself, but not to anyone else for quite a long time.
[10:07.110 --> 10:12.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's when I finally learned how to, you know, send messages to other users.
[10:12.330 --> 10:21.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's when I bumped into you people, because a friend of mine said, I took a mailbox and I sacrificed it.
[10:21.390 --> 10:24.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: I sent out a voicemail message to everyone on the system.
[10:25.090 --> 10:25.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: Just everyone.
[10:25.870 --> 10:29.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: You just spent all that long sending voicemail messages, that same message out.
[10:29.850 --> 10:30.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was like a broadcast.
[10:31.430 --> 10:34.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: And you people got it, and so did all the other IBM employees.
[10:34.510 --> 10:35.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: They got the message.
[10:36.030 --> 10:38.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's when somehow or another we linked up.
[10:38.930 --> 10:44.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well that was the message that I had received that had no name on it, and it piqued my curiosity, so I replied to it.
[10:44.470 --> 10:46.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that is what led me to you.
[10:46.650 --> 10:47.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's incredible.
[10:47.350 --> 10:57.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: We both dialed numbers virtually at random, or you knew somebody else that had done that, and that is how we were able to meet and learn quite a few things from each other, too.
[10:58.550 --> 11:06.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: Lots of people out there are doing this, have done this in the past, and it's sad to see that a lot of people think that this is something bad.
[11:06.950 --> 11:08.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think it's something great.
[11:08.410 --> 11:09.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's something you can learn a lot from.
[11:09.610 --> 11:11.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: We never did anything malicious to the system.
[11:11.590 --> 11:24.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: We learned a lot from it, and by using that particular system, we became much more adept at using other systems for other people and giving advice to how certain things should be set up.
[11:25.930 --> 11:31.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: Communications is something that so few of us really are encouraged to play with a lot.
[11:32.630 --> 11:35.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, Mr. French is down there in Texas.
[11:35.550 --> 11:39.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: He knows quite a bit about telephone setups.
[11:39.010 --> 11:45.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: He's very good at describing exactly what they sound like, how they were put into place.
[11:45.810 --> 11:52.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: What I'm going to ask you to do now is give us a very brief history of phone switches.
[11:52.930 --> 12:02.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you want to model that along the ones that have been down where you are, tell us steps, crossbars, ESS, all that kind of thing.
[12:02.390 --> 12:14.650]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, one of the great desires of Alexander Graham Bell was to come up with an automatic telephone, something that you didn't have to turn the crank or flash the operator and have the operator dial the number for you.
[12:15.490 --> 12:17.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: And he always wanted to come up with this.
[12:18.270 --> 12:21.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: unfortunately somebody else beat him to it.
[12:21.830 --> 12:39.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: A man by the last name of Stroger, he invented a Stroger switch, which was nothing but a relay and a set of contacts, almost like an old-fashioned TV tuner, you know, where you go channel 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, you know, when you spin the dial, you're selecting channels.
[12:39.490 --> 12:43.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: This picture in your mind, that same little tuner on your TV set that you're
[12:47.810 --> 12:49.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: your rotary dial phones.
[12:49.430 --> 12:53.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: those things that you spin the little wheel around and go, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da?
[12:53.570 --> 12:57.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: Every time it clicks, it's like selecting another channel.
[12:58.390 --> 13:05.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: And finally, what later was the Bell system bought this patent.
[13:06.050 --> 13:16.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: But for many years, another phone company, GTE, which later became GTE, actually had automatic dial systems before Bell did.
[13:16.330 --> 13:22.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: But that's one of the earlier types of automatic dial systems.
[13:22.970 --> 13:26.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: And there's still one or two of them around today in the United States.
[13:27.110 --> 13:29.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: They have real strange sounding rings.
[13:29.670 --> 13:35.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: If you want me to, I have a sample recorded on tape of the last step office of its type.
[13:35.730 --> 13:36.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, please, yes.
[13:36.570 --> 13:38.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: What kind of step office is this and where is it located?
[13:39.350 --> 13:41.630]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know the name of the town offhand.
[13:41.630 --> 13:42.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's in Connecticut someplace.
[13:43.310 --> 13:44.890]  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember the name of the town.
[13:46.290 --> 13:47.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell us the...
[13:47.510 --> 13:48.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: It still remains and it belongs...
[13:48.970 --> 13:53.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's an old western electric, you know, the Bell system back when it was the Bell system.
[13:54.210 --> 13:56.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is this the famous Willomantic Connecticut?
[13:57.850 --> 13:59.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think that is the name of Willomantic, yes.
[13:59.990 --> 14:02.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: And this would be area code 4203.
[14:02.150 --> 14:02.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: What's the exchange?
[14:03.550 --> 14:03.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: 423.
[14:04.430 --> 14:04.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: 423.
[14:05.090 --> 14:08.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, I don't know if we have any listeners in the 423 exchange in the 203 area code.
[14:09.010 --> 14:11.550]  [SPEAKER_00]: But you're the last one of its kind.
[14:11.750 --> 14:18.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, if you don't like it, if it's old, if it takes a long time to die a long distance, just say, hmm, it's an antique.
[14:18.770 --> 14:20.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's been around since the late 40s.
[14:21.270 --> 14:23.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, what kind specifically is this again?
[14:23.610 --> 14:28.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is a step-by-step switch and it's made by Western Electric and
[14:31.830 --> 14:40.650]  [SPEAKER_00]: as a city ring step-office because only in large cities do you hear a ring that sounds or did you hear a ring that sounds like this?
[14:46.360 --> 14:47.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the type of ring that it has.
[14:47.900 --> 14:51.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: I remember that ring well from my early days in New York.
[14:51.880 --> 14:53.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Almost every phone seemed to sound like that.
[14:53.520 --> 14:55.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, well, every phone sounded different.
[14:55.900 --> 14:57.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, now they all sound the same.
[14:57.620 --> 14:59.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they were all plastic to me.
[15:00.300 --> 15:08.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: All of the phones rang like that in the cities that I'm from and all of the phones rang a little bit different in the outlying areas.
[15:08.620 --> 15:20.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you lived in an outlying area it had a different kind of step ring and also teenagers have discovered that they could talk in between the little space.
[15:20.220 --> 15:23.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you get a ring and then there's a couple seconds of silence and then another ring.
[15:24.640 --> 15:30.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: What you're going to hear here is one of those rings with teenagers talking in the background here.
[15:30.860 --> 15:31.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Just a second.
[15:31.660 --> 15:31.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[15:43.260 --> 15:45.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: Did you hear the human voice there?
[15:45.320 --> 15:45.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I did.
[15:46.040 --> 15:46.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: I did.
[15:46.540 --> 15:47.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: I only heard one human voice.
[15:48.200 --> 15:52.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but that's just before it started to ring again and the number answered, so I didn't get anything more than that.
[15:52.940 --> 15:58.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: But that's the way the rings rang out in the country or in the outlying areas.
[15:59.140 --> 16:07.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, when you say that the step phone, the step office that you played us, the ring from before, is the last of its kind, you don't mean it's the last step of its kind.
[16:07.800 --> 16:10.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, you don't mean it's the last step office in the United States.
[16:10.500 --> 16:10.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no.
[16:10.980 --> 16:17.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: I would guess that there's less than a hundred step offices left in the U.S., not including Canada.
[16:18.780 --> 16:22.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: I presume there's quite a few still in Canada, but in the U.S.
[16:22.960 --> 16:29.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: proper, the mainland U.S., not including Alaska or Hawaii or Puerto Rico.
[16:30.220 --> 16:31.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: there's not very many of them left.
[16:31.960 --> 16:35.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: There's quite a few in Texas, quite a few in Kansas.
[16:36.040 --> 16:45.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, we may be getting, you know, all kinds of letters and telegrams from people saying, hey, wait a minute, my ring sounds like that, but why would somebody's ring sound like that if it's not a step office?
[16:46.380 --> 16:49.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, they also have crossbar, which is a later invention.
[16:49.400 --> 16:56.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like step is the oldest, and what we have now is a computer-generated thing, and it's new.
[16:57.480 --> 16:59.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said earlier, it's plastic.
[16:59.260 --> 17:06.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a computer that switches things nowadays, but in between the old and the new is the middle, and it is called crossbar.
[17:06.920 --> 17:12.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, I think a good example of city ring crossbar is, but there aren't any more in 212 area code.
[17:12.160 --> 17:13.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: They wipe them all out.
[17:13.240 --> 17:14.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: I know of one in 212.
[17:15.080 --> 17:15.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you?
[17:15.640 --> 17:17.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, NYNEX has claimed that they've wiped them all out in 212.
[17:18.060 --> 17:18.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you sure?
[17:19.580 --> 17:23.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: Area code 212-555-1212 is directory assistance.
[17:23.700 --> 17:25.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Call it, you'll get a city ring crossbar ring.
[17:25.720 --> 17:26.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a very good point.
[17:26.840 --> 17:27.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a very good point.
[17:27.640 --> 17:31.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess they weren't counting that, but that's true.
[17:31.200 --> 17:32.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: I do remember that you did get that.
[17:33.180 --> 17:35.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was thinking of the 718762 exchange.
[17:35.920 --> 17:40.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know that one is a city ring crossbar, a nice deep baritone ring.
[17:40.940 --> 17:41.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Unless they've cut it over.
[17:41.820 --> 17:46.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes they cut things over overnight and you get the same generic ring as everything else.
[17:46.780 --> 17:49.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: But do you want to give us some talk about crossbars?
[17:50.560 --> 17:52.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: I have somewhere around here.
[17:52.320 --> 17:53.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: You caught me off guard.
[17:53.220 --> 17:56.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: I have 718769 crossbar.
[17:56.440 --> 17:58.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's probably the same area.
[17:59.180 --> 17:59.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[18:00.320 --> 18:01.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see here.
[18:01.400 --> 18:02.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the ring to it.
[18:09.730 --> 18:13.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what part of Brooklyn or whatever 769 is.
[18:14.670 --> 18:15.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's Brooklyn.
[18:16.110 --> 18:19.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I know people can find out by dialing 769-9901.
[18:20.210 --> 18:23.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, he says, he says, live from Brooklyn.
[18:24.130 --> 18:25.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know what section of Brooklyn.
[18:25.910 --> 18:26.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[18:26.330 --> 18:27.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's somewhere in Brooklyn then.
[18:27.530 --> 18:28.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: But that's not too hard to figure out.
[18:29.030 --> 18:34.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: You simply call somebody at random in the middle of the night and ask them where they are when you woke them up and they'll tell you what part of Brooklyn.
[18:35.450 --> 18:39.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or you arrange for a street corner to meet on and things like that.
[18:40.730 --> 18:43.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, now, how many different kinds of crossbar are there?
[18:43.910 --> 18:45.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there was two basic types.
[18:45.890 --> 18:51.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: They had the old number one crossbar and the number five, which is the more advanced.
[18:51.390 --> 18:54.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: And there's still quite a few number five crossbars left in the United States.
[18:55.050 --> 19:04.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, the 2600 office, the Hacker Quarterly, is located in a number five crossbar that I don't think is ever going to be switched over to something electronic or digital.
[19:05.030 --> 19:06.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm beginning to wonder.
[19:06.450 --> 19:10.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: And some of you people remember when a dial tone used to sound like this
[19:16.620 --> 19:21.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: rather than the musical note sounding thing that we have nowadays.
[19:21.520 --> 19:21.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[19:21.940 --> 19:23.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, I do remember that.
[19:23.880 --> 19:25.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: That was a dial tone.
[19:25.640 --> 19:32.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, you can still go to places in Europe and hear dial tones that sound like, you know, like people sputtering, you know?
[19:32.540 --> 19:35.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: And there's places, I think, in Ohio that are like that, too.
[19:35.540 --> 19:38.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's places in Texas you can still found that dial tone.
[19:38.320 --> 19:38.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[19:38.640 --> 19:39.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: But not that one.
[19:39.460 --> 19:40.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's other ones.
[19:40.320 --> 19:41.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's even more harsh ones.
[19:41.360 --> 19:41.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you know the kind I mean?
[19:42.200 --> 19:42.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[19:42.760 --> 19:49.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't happen to have any samplers of that particular one, but they sound like an electric belt-driven sander or something.
[19:53.580 --> 19:55.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: Like somebody stuck their finger in a light socket or something.
[19:56.120 --> 19:56.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[19:56.480 --> 19:57.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, in fact, it's those...
[19:57.900 --> 20:04.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you look at the phone books in those particular areas, they describe telephone service to people as if they had never seen a telephone before.
[20:04.680 --> 20:08.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: They actually spell out a word that denotes the dial tone.
[20:08.900 --> 20:11.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like brrrr or something like that, and it fills up a whole line.
[20:24.180 --> 20:27.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: Buzz, that means that someone's talking and you can't talk to them right now.
[20:27.900 --> 20:28.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[20:28.680 --> 20:33.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's really something, and I hope there's people out there collecting those old phone books because there's quite a few interesting things.
[20:34.220 --> 20:36.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: I have a real rare thing on tape.
[20:36.540 --> 20:36.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: What's that?
[20:37.120 --> 20:42.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: This was recorded by me in the 1960s of a step office that had...
[20:42.500 --> 20:44.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let me explain to the people.
[20:44.580 --> 20:52.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: If you call a very large company, let's say Chemical Bank or something, they may have a couple thousand lines at Chemical Bank, okay?
[20:53.000 --> 20:54.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: As soon as you dial that number, it rings.
[20:55.000 --> 20:55.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: There's no waiting.
[20:55.940 --> 21:08.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there may be a hundred people using the phone at the same time, and it's not going to be busy because the computer automatically selects a line that's not busy, and it just rings it.
[21:08.320 --> 21:15.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like in the wink of an eye, it knows which line is not busy, and you don't even realize that you've bypassed a couple of hundred people that are talking on the phone.
[21:16.620 --> 21:26.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: But in the old days, they had to go through an old step hunt group, and it was called a rotary hunt group, actually.
[21:26.460 --> 21:29.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: And you're going to hear the thing actually touching.
[21:30.240 --> 21:33.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: In other words, when you dial, like, say, 747-3011.
[21:35.320 --> 21:43.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: 11 used to be, big businesses always had 11 because it was the first number in that group, and it would go 12, 13, 14, 15, and it would hunt.
[21:44.360 --> 21:47.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I want you to hear what happens before the busy signal.
[21:47.380 --> 21:53.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to hear this number hunting through hundreds of lines before it finally ends up being busy.
[21:54.000 --> 21:54.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: Check this out.
[21:54.820 --> 21:54.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[22:06.820 --> 22:08.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: Did you hear the busy at the end?
[22:08.240 --> 22:08.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: I cut it short.
[22:09.100 --> 22:14.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I heard the busy, and I also heard what sounded like the beginning of a busy signal before that.
[22:14.280 --> 22:14.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[22:14.740 --> 22:17.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you were actually hearing it right over all the busies.
[22:17.440 --> 22:26.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: It would test each individual line, and occasionally it would test it just as the bop tone was going off, so you'd hear bop, bop, like that.
[22:26.780 --> 22:32.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it finally ended up at 747-3099, or 3090, I'm sorry.
[22:33.960 --> 22:36.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that was the actual number that was from.
[22:36.200 --> 22:37.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: That number is no longer in existence.
[22:37.660 --> 22:41.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a power company, and their line was hardly ever busy.
[22:41.540 --> 22:47.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: When it was busy, though, you got one whale of a long wait just to find out if you were going to get a busy signal.
[22:48.000 --> 22:48.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[22:48.420 --> 22:51.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: So was that being called during some kind of an emergency or something?
[22:51.680 --> 23:06.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, the office cut over to electronic switching, and when they cut the cable, they shorted all the lines to that phone number out, and I took advantage of it and was still able to call into that old step office after it had cut to ESS, the electronic switching system.
[23:06.640 --> 23:09.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Which is the other one we're going to get to in a couple of minutes.
[23:10.000 --> 23:28.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and when they cut the cable, all the wires shorted together, and it made every number in that 747-3011, 12, 13, all the way down to 747-3090, and I got to record that hunt group, and it was, I'm sure at times you would call the power company, like during a storm,
[23:28.620 --> 23:35.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: there was a lot of outages, and a lot of people would have to sit there and wait for all that bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, just to get a busy thing and frustrated.
[23:36.860 --> 23:37.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Incredible.
[23:37.780 --> 23:50.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I recall sometimes, and I haven't heard this recently, but I do remember it in the past, and I think it was with electronic switches, where I'd call a number, and I'd hear half of a ring, and then it would turn into a busy signal.
[23:50.240 --> 23:51.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: What made that happen?
[23:51.880 --> 23:54.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay, that's a new thing.
[23:54.780 --> 23:55.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't heard it recently.
[23:56.000 --> 24:04.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: What that is, it's like a pay telephone that's off of the hook, and no one has dialed anything on it, but when it would test the line, it would ring, and then turn to a busy.
[24:05.520 --> 24:08.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: What that is, certain types of lines don't have dial tones on them.
[24:08.880 --> 24:13.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: As crazy as that is, some lines are for, like, incoming calls only.
[24:13.640 --> 24:17.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: If you're at the other end, and you just pick up that line, you hear nothing.
[24:17.240 --> 24:18.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: You will not get a dial tone.
[24:19.780 --> 24:26.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the old coin-operated phones many years ago, where you had to put a dime in first, would do that.
[24:26.720 --> 24:29.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you would not get a dial tone on that payphone unless you put money in it.
[24:29.780 --> 24:31.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the bad old days.
[24:31.420 --> 24:32.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: I remember that as well.
[24:32.220 --> 24:34.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: I remember rotary payphones all over the place.
[24:34.680 --> 24:40.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, if you were to call a payphone while it was off the hook, it'd go, ring, click, bop, bop.
[24:40.980 --> 24:42.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you would get that.
[24:42.900 --> 24:46.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, in fact, it would do that with the ESS when they first...
[24:46.860 --> 24:52.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: If you were ever in an area that was still not dial tone first, you'd get that with the ESS.
[24:52.100 --> 24:53.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: It'd go, ring, click, bop.
[24:53.720 --> 24:54.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[24:54.240 --> 24:55.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was very frustrating.
[24:55.100 --> 25:06.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: I remember there were some numbers, like the Department of Motor Vehicles, you were trying to reach them, and you'd hear the ring and say, oh, I finally got through, and you'd open the champagne and everything like that, except then it would turn into a busy signal and it would be all over.
[25:06.880 --> 25:07.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[25:07.420 --> 25:18.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Also, in the olden days, before you got a disconnected recording that said the number you've reached has been disconnected, you knew that that recording was going to come on even before the number rang.
[25:18.600 --> 25:26.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: Because you'd get a ring, just kind of like a ring, and it almost sounded like the number answered, but it didn't, and then another ring would pop on, and you'd get this result.
[25:29.790 --> 25:31.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: Any minute now, it's a step opposite.
[25:31.690 --> 25:32.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: Here it goes.
[25:36.780 --> 25:37.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're sorry.
[25:37.540 --> 25:41.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: You have reached a number that has been disconnected or is no longer in service.
[25:41.260 --> 25:45.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you feel you have reached this recording in error, please check the number or try your call again.
[25:46.160 --> 25:48.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: But did you hear the little noise just before it even rang?
[25:48.660 --> 25:49.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: It went...
[25:49.120 --> 25:50.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I did.
[25:50.300 --> 25:51.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: A couple of comments on that.
[25:51.900 --> 25:53.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: First of all, she sounded like she was semi-underwater.
[25:54.120 --> 25:54.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Did you notice that?
[25:54.980 --> 25:56.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a wrinkled-up old tape.
[25:56.540 --> 25:58.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, that's an actual tape.
[25:58.400 --> 25:59.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just like an old...
[25:59.920 --> 26:00.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just an old tape.
[26:01.680 --> 26:09.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not my tape, but it's like if you remember 15, 20 years ago when people had 8-track tapes, they were bad about melting.
[26:09.920 --> 26:13.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: They would leave the 8-track out on the dashboard of the car, especially down here in the south.
[26:14.060 --> 26:22.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: The sun would melt them, and by the time they'd get back out to the car, they'd play their music, and it sounded like it was coming underwater because the tape was wrinkled.
[26:23.880 --> 26:25.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same thing.
[26:25.820 --> 26:30.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: The tape would just get worn and wrinkled and needed to be replaced.
[26:30.280 --> 26:30.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's all.
[26:30.700 --> 26:31.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just...
[26:31.060 --> 26:38.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, any time a cassette or any kind of tape gets hot or wrinkled, it will sound like it's coming from underwater.
[26:38.240 --> 26:41.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you know, I've heard some of those recordings grind to a halt sometimes.
[26:41.860 --> 26:43.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've heard some of them even going backwards.
[26:44.140 --> 26:44.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes.
[26:44.780 --> 26:45.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I have, too.
[26:46.140 --> 26:47.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: All kinds of bizarre things.
[26:47.400 --> 26:51.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure whatever telephone company is quite embarrassed.
[26:52.060 --> 26:55.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever heard a recording turned up too loud, though?
[26:55.960 --> 26:56.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Distorted, you mean?
[26:56.740 --> 26:57.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[26:57.680 --> 26:58.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: Would you...
[26:58.380 --> 26:59.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this was more than distorted.
[27:00.060 --> 27:02.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have facilities to be able to call out?
[27:03.540 --> 27:04.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: I can arrange something.
[27:05.060 --> 27:07.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is there a number you'd like me to reach right now?
[27:08.040 --> 27:10.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if we want to publicize this number or not.
[27:10.340 --> 27:12.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Is there a way that we can mute this or...
[27:12.520 --> 27:14.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I guess it wouldn't hurt to publish it.
[27:14.560 --> 27:17.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a disconnected recording that's turned up entirely too loud.
[27:17.400 --> 27:19.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, let's let our listeners have some fun with that.
[27:20.080 --> 27:25.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you people out there, overload the central office in this town.
[27:25.120 --> 27:25.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a small town.
[27:26.680 --> 27:33.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: Dial 1-214-452-1111.
[27:34.040 --> 27:35.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: And listen to what...
[27:35.440 --> 27:39.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: I would advise holding the phone at least at arm's length or you'll be very sorry.
[27:39.580 --> 27:41.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, let's see if we can connect to that.
[27:41.780 --> 27:42.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hold the line.
[27:43.760 --> 27:44.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, let's see what we get here.
[27:48.780 --> 27:49.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're sorry.
[27:49.880 --> 27:52.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Your call cannot be completed as dialed.
[27:52.560 --> 27:54.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: Please check the number and dial again.
[27:54.680 --> 27:56.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Or call your operator to help you.
[27:56.680 --> 27:57.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is a recording.
[27:59.280 --> 28:00.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: 214-452.
[28:01.660 --> 28:03.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: That certainly is something.
[28:03.200 --> 28:04.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: It sounded like she was talking through a hollow pipe.
[28:05.300 --> 28:09.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, those numbers she gave at the end, can you tell us what those mean?
[28:09.760 --> 28:10.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: 214-45...
[28:10.400 --> 28:11.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, actually, I guess that's the exchange.
[28:11.700 --> 28:13.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's just the identifier on the exchange.
[28:13.900 --> 28:15.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: And you'll have to pardon me.
[28:15.200 --> 28:15.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: That kind of...
[28:15.900 --> 28:17.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: That knocked all the earwax out of my ears right there.
[28:17.780 --> 28:18.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: That was loud.
[28:19.160 --> 28:21.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, there's other numbers that you hear at the end of recording sometimes, too.
[28:22.040 --> 28:24.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: You hear 212-4T or something like that.
[28:24.880 --> 28:27.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the long-distance companies.
[28:27.520 --> 28:32.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: MCI and Sprint have them, like 2CL is like MCI and...
[28:33.580 --> 28:35.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see, what is the one for Sprint?
[28:35.220 --> 28:37.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's something like 411.
[28:37.560 --> 28:38.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: Something or other.
[28:38.440 --> 28:39.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that just...
[28:39.640 --> 28:50.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's for the phone company's personal use to identify what telephone exchange is handling the call or where the trouble may be at if you get a trouble report on it or something.
[28:50.080 --> 28:51.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: And AT&T gets those, too, right?
[28:51.980 --> 28:52.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[28:52.440 --> 28:56.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: AT&T would say, your call cannot be completed as dialed such and such.
[28:56.660 --> 28:58.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: 2-1-2-3-T.
[28:58.680 --> 29:02.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the switchman knows which switch is handling that.
[29:02.620 --> 29:02.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[29:03.320 --> 29:05.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: And people like you know which switch is handling it, too.
[29:05.520 --> 29:07.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: People like me know which switch is handling it.
[29:07.380 --> 29:07.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[29:07.960 --> 29:13.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: So you hear the area code of where that recording is coming out of, and you say, oh, okay, there's where the problem lies.
[29:14.220 --> 29:18.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, say, if you're calling a number in Los Angeles and all of a sudden you hear, we're sorry, all circuits are busy now.
[29:18.820 --> 29:32.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, 702-3-T, then you know somewhere out in Las Vegas, you know, or I should say in Nevada someplace, there's trouble, so they know to contact the good people in Nevada and say, you've got a problem.
[29:32.260 --> 29:34.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: We can't call Los Angeles, and it's blocked in your area.
[29:35.320 --> 29:40.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we're going to get into some more stories, but first I'd like you to complete the saga of phone switches.
[29:40.960 --> 29:42.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's go to electronic switches now.
[29:43.840 --> 29:45.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'm going to show you some.
[29:45.580 --> 29:49.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is also taken from 718769, which is now gone.
[29:50.660 --> 29:51.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: God rest its soul.
[29:51.460 --> 29:52.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's an unusual thing.
[29:52.320 --> 30:02.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: What they used to do back in the ye olden days was they would take the old buzz dial tone and break it up, and that would be your busy signal.
[30:02.120 --> 30:06.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: For example, the old dial tone was a buzz, so this was your busy signal.
[30:09.480 --> 30:17.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, when they started changing over to new dial tones, your new busy signal didn't sound like that anymore.
[30:17.080 --> 30:18.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: It sounded like the dial tone of today.
[30:21.500 --> 30:24.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that embarrassed me real nicely.
[30:26.220 --> 30:29.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: You can picture your dial tone going on and off.
[30:30.520 --> 30:33.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, oops.
[30:37.100 --> 30:37.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: There we go.
[30:38.060 --> 30:40.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, so that's actually a busy signal even though it sounds like a dial tone.
[30:40.880 --> 30:43.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was also 718769.
[30:43.680 --> 30:44.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, that office is gone.
[30:45.060 --> 30:56.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to get that anymore, but sometimes when you'd call your friend John over in Brooklyn, his line would go, bop, bop, hang up, call right back, same number, boop, boop, you'd get the different one.
[30:56.860 --> 30:59.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, wasn't there another exchange in Brooklyn like that too?
[31:01.600 --> 31:06.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, 951 did that, but it never did switch, it never did have two different types of busy signals.
[31:06.740 --> 31:21.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: It only had the dial tone kind, but this one, 769, had two distinctly different power plants in it, and so when one of them was overloaded, and all, you know, all the circuits were busy on that one particular busy signal generator, it would switch you over to the other one as a backup.
[31:22.240 --> 31:29.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: So I used to fool with that thing all day long, calling and calling and calling and get the bop, bop, and then calling and get the musical note sounding one.
[31:29.480 --> 31:30.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, let's go to electronic.
[31:31.500 --> 31:33.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, electronic, everything's uniform.
[31:34.340 --> 31:49.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: In Los Angeles and New York and Dallas and Chicago, it doesn't matter where you go, in Canada, all the rings are the same rate, the rings are the same pitch, the rings and the busies and everything are all exactly the same, and there's not much to say about those things,
[31:49.940 --> 31:52.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: except for they work fast, they break down a lot.
[31:53.340 --> 31:58.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: Have you noticed, lately, phones have been breaking down a lot on the East Coast and the West Coast, both.
[31:58.480 --> 32:01.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, phone systems, the phones seem to be working just fine, but the phone systems, yes.
[32:01.980 --> 32:07.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, the systems, well, the phones don't break down, but without the system to connect it up, the phones might as well be broken.
[32:07.920 --> 32:12.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Not necessarily, because there's always other ways of making a phone call if you know how to do it.
[32:12.500 --> 32:15.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, if you know how to use the other phone companies or if you know how to route things.
[32:16.380 --> 32:22.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but sometimes your local phone exchange that provide you with a dial tone, if you pick up and cannot get a dial tone...
[32:22.560 --> 32:23.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a problem, yes.
[32:23.600 --> 32:24.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're in a world of hurt.
[32:25.060 --> 32:25.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[32:25.500 --> 32:26.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Was that actually what was happening?
[32:26.800 --> 32:30.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was on the impression just wasn't allowing certain calls to go through.
[32:30.040 --> 32:38.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, well, it's computer controlled, which the computer unfortunately controls every single connection.
[32:38.420 --> 32:39.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: And there's no independent backup.
[32:39.880 --> 32:42.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: There's no backup at all, which I think is crazy.
[32:42.400 --> 32:47.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: But sometimes the exchange itself will, it'll just die.
[32:47.860 --> 32:49.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: And there's nothing you can do about it.
[32:49.780 --> 33:03.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: As we're step and crossbar, the old electromechanical ones, only certain parts would die, like 76, let's see, 76, 9, 9, 9, and then the last two digits may be out of pocket.
[33:03.520 --> 33:07.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: But 76, 9, 1, 1, 7, 3, for example, don't call that number, by the way.
[33:08.280 --> 33:11.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: The 1, 1s may still work and the 2, 2s may still work and so forth.
[33:12.060 --> 33:20.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: The 1s groups and the 2s, you know, only parts of the old prefix would die due to too many calls going to that one area.
[33:20.320 --> 33:23.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: As for nowadays, when the exchange dies, everybody's gone.
[33:23.980 --> 33:26.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thousands and thousands of people are out of phone service.
[33:26.760 --> 33:34.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's interesting because it's as if the people in charge don't seem to think of it as people anymore.
[33:34.640 --> 33:40.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: They just think of it as another computer system, and computer systems go down from maintenance, and they have problems, and they crash.
[33:41.300 --> 33:44.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, you would never do that in the old days with step and crossbar.
[33:44.700 --> 33:47.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: You'd realize that there were human beings on the other end of those things.
[33:47.040 --> 33:49.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: And there was always somebody real handy.
[33:49.920 --> 33:57.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: You see, a lot of people don't realize this, but the telephone exchange had employees inside the building 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
[33:58.360 --> 34:00.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: There was always somebody there.
[34:00.640 --> 34:07.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: At 3 in the morning, you'd call down there, and the switch one would be probably asleep, but he'd answer the phone in case there was a problem.
[34:09.020 --> 34:11.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they play dominoes in the middle of the night.
[34:11.600 --> 34:17.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, nowadays, the computers have gotten rid of all the employees.
[34:18.200 --> 34:21.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Almost no telephone exchanges have employees.
[34:21.800 --> 34:22.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: They're all computers.
[34:22.820 --> 34:24.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: The computer is the employee now.
[34:24.840 --> 34:26.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: They saved a whole lot of money on payroll.
[34:27.040 --> 34:31.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: We might be getting a little ahead of ourselves here, because let's just focus on the early days of ESS.
[34:31.940 --> 34:34.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, what were the first... we had ESS number one.
[34:35.160 --> 34:37.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you had ESS number one.
[34:37.120 --> 34:40.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: You actually had one before that, and I don't even know what it was called.
[34:40.560 --> 34:46.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was an experimental exchange, and it had lots of tubes, like an old-timey radio that you had to turn on.
[34:46.080 --> 34:47.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Wait for it to warm up.
[34:47.900 --> 34:52.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: It actually was controlled with computer tubes, like technology from the 50s.
[34:52.960 --> 34:53.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: And about what year is that?
[34:54.260 --> 34:56.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was like 1962.
[34:57.040 --> 34:57.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[34:57.720 --> 34:59.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it stayed around for about a year.
[34:59.940 --> 35:01.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then they got rid of it.
[35:01.340 --> 35:03.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then it was somewhere in New York City.
[35:03.660 --> 35:06.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think they had another one in the Washington, D.C.
[35:06.140 --> 35:07.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: area, just like it.
[35:07.700 --> 35:11.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then they had the ESS number one, the electronic switching system.
[35:13.840 --> 35:19.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the way they would do it, they would replace an old electromechanical office from the 40s or the 50s.
[35:20.540 --> 35:28.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: And let's say you had telephone prefixes for 251, 252, 253, 254, all the way down to 259.
[35:28.800 --> 35:32.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: They would replace 251 and maybe 252.
[35:32.780 --> 35:35.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they would replace it just small bits at a time.
[35:35.380 --> 35:37.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: They were worried that the computer would blow up.
[35:37.560 --> 35:40.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: They actually were afraid the computer would fall and fail.
[35:41.520 --> 35:43.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, computers do that, as we've seen recently.
[35:43.980 --> 35:46.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: So maybe that wasn't such an invalid assumption.
[35:47.160 --> 35:47.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[35:47.900 --> 35:53.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe we should go back to the old days of gradually turning these new systems on.
[35:53.880 --> 36:03.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, a month later they would, as the terminology says, they would cut over the rest of the prefix a little bit at a time so it's not to overload the poor computer.
[36:04.040 --> 36:10.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, nowadays they just step right in there and they'll cut over hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people all in one shot.
[36:10.440 --> 36:11.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then there's no turning back.
[36:12.600 --> 36:18.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: As they also used to keep the old equipment around, in case the computer failed, they could switch it back on all of a sudden.
[36:19.420 --> 36:21.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: That hasn't been done in 20 years.
[36:21.060 --> 36:21.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: They don't do that anymore.
[36:23.300 --> 36:25.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, let's go past EESS number one.
[36:25.600 --> 36:27.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: We had the 1A, I believe?
[36:27.380 --> 36:31.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you got the 1A, which is probably the finest computerized system.
[36:32.080 --> 36:40.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like we reached a peak when we hit the 1A, and then as far as I'm concerned we went downhill when they came up with all these DMS-100s made in Canada.
[36:40.420 --> 36:43.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, DMS-100 is Northern Telecom, a different company entirely.
[36:43.740 --> 36:44.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's made in...
[36:44.480 --> 36:45.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a foreign thing.
[36:45.620 --> 36:46.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's made in Canada.
[36:47.220 --> 36:48.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: It has a heavy...
[36:48.640 --> 36:52.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, I'm sorry all you people in Canada, but it has a high failure rate.
[36:52.200 --> 36:52.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like it.
[36:53.820 --> 36:57.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've noticed DMS-100s have horrible problems with cross-talk.
[36:57.640 --> 36:58.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they do.
[36:58.520 --> 37:03.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you're on those things and all of a sudden you hear all kinds of people talking at the same time and none of them can hear you, of course.
[37:03.600 --> 37:05.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Why, sure, you don't even need a dial.
[37:05.340 --> 37:06.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: Why need a dial?
[37:06.240 --> 37:07.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: You can just talk to everybody at the same time.
[37:07.980 --> 37:13.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: But do you think the 5ESS from Western Electric, do you think that was going downhill from the 1A?
[37:13.480 --> 37:18.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it is, but it's not as crummy as the one made in Canada, the thing we were just discussing.
[37:18.460 --> 37:19.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: So what is better about the 1A?
[37:21.940 --> 37:23.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: It holds a high volume of calls.
[37:24.020 --> 37:26.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a smaller and faster machine.
[37:26.580 --> 37:33.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: You might say, if you were talking about computer systems, it has a faster clock in it, for lack of a better...
[37:33.100 --> 37:34.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
[37:34.100 --> 37:34.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's speedier.
[37:34.980 --> 37:38.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: It processes calls ten times faster than the old 1.
[37:40.560 --> 37:45.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it didn't crash and fall and burn like the new digital offices do.
[37:46.200 --> 37:46.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[37:47.200 --> 37:52.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: So it was sort of like a cross between the step crossbar and the ESS.
[37:52.480 --> 37:53.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: It took the good points of all of them.
[37:53.840 --> 37:54.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: It started...
[37:54.800 --> 37:58.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the ESS-1 is kind of like a computerized crossbar office.
[37:58.900 --> 38:05.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: It worked like a crossbar office, and the switches were very similar to the old crossbar switch, except for they were very small.
[38:07.120 --> 38:07.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: I see.
[38:08.000 --> 38:13.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's where a crossbar switch was probably about three feet long and about a foot and a half tall.
[38:13.880 --> 38:19.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's where the ESS-1 switches were, you know, like you could fit them in the palm of your hand.
[38:19.740 --> 38:20.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[38:21.120 --> 38:24.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, there's a couple other digital switches, too, right?
[38:24.720 --> 38:26.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Some rather crummy ones, too, I believe.
[38:26.320 --> 38:31.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I would imagine there's probably as much as 10 or 15 of them on the market, you know, worldwide.
[38:31.840 --> 38:32.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
[38:32.820 --> 38:34.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I couldn't even begin to name them all.
[38:35.080 --> 38:38.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the equipment manufacturers is out of business.
[38:38.320 --> 38:40.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, I'm talking on that switch.
[38:41.140 --> 38:41.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, really?
[38:41.900 --> 38:42.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: If you're listening.
[38:42.660 --> 38:43.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: What kind of switch is it?
[38:44.080 --> 38:47.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's made by ITT, International Telephone and Telegraph.
[38:48.220 --> 38:50.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's called a System 12.
[38:52.140 --> 38:57.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: And they got out of the switching business, which I think they had no business getting in it in the first place.
[38:57.840 --> 39:01.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: They apparently did not know what they were doing when they designed this thing.
[39:02.420 --> 39:03.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh...
[39:03.300 --> 39:06.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Was this the switch that used to be on Long Island and got transported down to Texas?
[39:07.100 --> 39:08.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's connected to mine.
[39:09.080 --> 39:15.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is connected like the next community down is like seven or eight miles away.
[39:15.940 --> 39:17.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it used to be in Psyosset, New York.
[39:18.220 --> 39:21.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they just wheeled it down to Texas for some reason.
[39:21.220 --> 39:21.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: They sure did.
[39:22.120 --> 39:23.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: I watched them unloaded.
[39:23.420 --> 39:24.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: It actually came out of a big truck.
[39:25.160 --> 39:26.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh...
[39:26.720 --> 39:30.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Nine X or whoever was in charge there got smart and said, well, this is a piece of junk, you know.
[39:31.040 --> 39:31.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: So let's get rid of this.
[39:31.820 --> 39:34.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's put it on some stupid southern air sand.
[39:34.060 --> 39:37.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, can you give us an example of some of the, uh...
[39:37.300 --> 39:40.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: some of the quote-unquote features of this ITT switch you have?
[39:42.320 --> 39:46.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it has some features about it that the phone company doesn't want.
[39:46.640 --> 39:58.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: For example, if you have call waiting, and you are calling somebody and the number is still ringing and the party you're calling hasn't answered yet, let's say you get a call waiting.
[39:58.840 --> 40:01.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, number one, you can't answer your call waiting too successfully.
[40:03.000 --> 40:10.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: if the number's busy or the number has not answered yet, you flash the button to answer your call waiting and go, hello?
[40:10.800 --> 40:21.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: And because the party you were calling did not answer, the party who's calling you on your call waiting is not going to get charged if they're calling long distance.
[40:22.720 --> 40:23.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Really?
[40:23.500 --> 40:24.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Did I say that?
[40:24.540 --> 40:25.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, no, wait a minute.
[40:25.420 --> 40:26.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let me make sure I understand this.
[40:27.200 --> 40:30.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're calling somebody on your phone, they're not answering.
[40:30.800 --> 40:33.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: While you're calling them, you get a call and you're call waiting.
[40:33.480 --> 40:39.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: You flip over to them, they won't get charged because the person you called never answered.
[40:39.520 --> 40:39.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[40:40.160 --> 40:51.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: So when I discovered this, I think I made light of it a whole lot and AT&T called here about once a week wanting to know why so many calls were going to this number and people were not getting charged.
[40:52.560 --> 40:53.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: What, did you tell them?
[40:53.960 --> 40:54.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Nope.
[40:54.740 --> 40:54.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[40:55.240 --> 40:56.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: And does it still work to this day?
[40:56.920 --> 40:58.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, they finally cured the problem.
[40:58.640 --> 41:09.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: They did a software update in this office but I bet you there's quite a few of them around that it still works that way but unfortunately you could not answer your call waiting without dumping the original call.
[41:10.260 --> 41:25.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's where if you had a real, what I call a real bell system type ESS-1A, you could put that call on hold and let the number ring over there and say, can you hold on a minute and I'm calling somebody and then click back over and explain to one person or the other you're going to have to get rid of one or the other.
[41:26.060 --> 41:27.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you have to deliberately call a number.
[41:28.160 --> 41:29.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have to make choices in this life, right?
[41:30.240 --> 41:30.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[41:30.740 --> 41:40.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: I would deliberately call a number that I knew wouldn't answer like a business that was closed at night time and somebody would call me and I'd answer car waiting and they could talk for free.
[41:40.580 --> 41:48.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's incredible and I really don't see anything wrong with that either because it's their system and you're using it and you're not doing anything you're not supposed to do.
[41:48.540 --> 41:49.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: And no one's getting billed.
[41:49.760 --> 41:52.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like it's costing anything.
[41:52.560 --> 41:52.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[41:54.000 --> 41:58.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: The other drawback of having this type of thing, your three-way calling was all screwed up.
[41:58.800 --> 42:05.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: I had three-way calling and call waiting at the same time and the following funny incidences would happen.
[42:06.420 --> 42:08.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'd say, listen, I'm getting another call.
[42:09.760 --> 42:10.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hold on a second.
[42:10.640 --> 42:14.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I would answer my call waiting and I would add the call waiting on to the three-way.
[42:15.620 --> 42:17.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's not what you want to do.
[42:17.800 --> 42:22.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I might get a call from somebody that doesn't like the other person that's on the other line.
[42:22.600 --> 42:23.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: It happened to me one time.
[42:23.800 --> 42:24.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[42:24.260 --> 42:27.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: And after I finally hung up, they called me back and said, I thought you didn't talk to them anymore.
[42:29.460 --> 42:29.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Fascinating.
[42:30.060 --> 42:32.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's an embarrassing situation that'll get you into.
[42:32.400 --> 42:34.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, do you have equal access down there?
[42:34.860 --> 42:35.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I sure do not.
[42:36.000 --> 42:38.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: You do not have equal access, so you can't pick a long-distance company.
[42:38.560 --> 42:42.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have the choice to choose between Sprint, MCI, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
[42:43.220 --> 42:46.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, you're on an electronic, or is it a digital switch you're on?
[42:46.700 --> 42:49.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: It is a digital, unfortunate switch.
[42:49.600 --> 42:53.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you're on a state-of-the-art, in their words, switch.
[42:54.340 --> 42:57.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Why don't you have access to equal access to other phone companies?
[42:58.040 --> 43:00.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's not the switch's fault this time.
[43:00.680 --> 43:06.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: This switch would handle equal access, it's just the phone company is cheap, and they don't want to put in the equal access trunks.
[43:06.720 --> 43:08.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: What phone company do you use?
[43:09.140 --> 43:11.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's an independent called United Telephone Company.
[43:11.780 --> 43:25.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, so just to catch our listeners up to this, not only are you on this ITT weird digital switch that nobody else seems to have, but you're not part of the bell system, you're part of an independent phone company.
[43:25.440 --> 43:28.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: When I dial the operator, it does not say, thank you for using AT&T.
[43:28.860 --> 43:35.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just, you get a weird ring and a nasally sounding woman that's usually asleep in the middle of the night and say, what do you want?
[43:35.580 --> 43:37.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: Why are you calling the operator for?
[43:37.400 --> 43:38.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: Leave me alone.
[43:38.320 --> 43:47.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, just to give our listeners a sense of this, imagine if, say, the Upper West Side had a different phone company from the rest of New York City.
[43:48.080 --> 44:00.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Imagine if New York Telephone, a subsidiary of NYNEX, had all of New York State and all of New York City, except for this one little part, and that was, you know, New York City Telephone or some crazy outfit like that.
[44:00.820 --> 44:03.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's kind of the situation that Mr. French down there in Texas is in.
[44:04.180 --> 44:05.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: He's got an independent phone company.
[44:05.760 --> 44:08.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, there's lots of independent phone companies all throughout the nation.
[44:08.180 --> 44:11.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: There have been for years, ever since before the divestiture.
[44:12.460 --> 44:16.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: What are some of the characteristics of having an independent phone company that we might not know?
[44:17.240 --> 44:21.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's just unstandard business practices, you know.
[44:21.380 --> 44:25.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: You may have lived in a I used to live in a large metropolitan area.
[44:25.580 --> 44:28.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: And when I moved here, it was like, you mean you've never heard of that?
[44:28.900 --> 44:29.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
[44:29.620 --> 44:32.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: They've never heard of centralized repair service.
[44:32.520 --> 44:35.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: They've never heard of oh, let's see, what was it?
[44:35.640 --> 44:40.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: They told me I couldn't have touchstone when I moved here, and I just brought my touchstone phone, plugged it in, and it worked.
[44:40.420 --> 44:41.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: They told you you couldn't have it at all?
[44:42.140 --> 44:43.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they said, you cannot have it.
[44:43.440 --> 44:44.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not available in your area.
[44:44.800 --> 44:45.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, sure it is.
[44:46.100 --> 44:47.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: I showed them the touchstones.
[44:47.620 --> 44:48.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: I pressed a couple of them.
[44:48.600 --> 44:49.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I said, see?
[44:50.160 --> 44:52.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they had never seen anything like that before, I guess.
[44:52.720 --> 44:52.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[44:53.420 --> 44:56.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: No one down here has, in this area I'm in, no one has touchstone.
[44:57.480 --> 44:58.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's incredible.
[44:58.880 --> 44:59.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: What else?
[45:00.980 --> 45:01.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see, what else?
[45:03.380 --> 45:09.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of those type of systems, and unfortunately now, Ninex and a few other companies are starting to adopt their bad habits.
[45:10.500 --> 45:12.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: You can let the phone ring.
[45:12.700 --> 45:17.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, say, let's say there was a radio station, they had a contest, and so you called in, or maybe a talk show.
[45:18.020 --> 45:20.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: They had it fixed, so like Larry King.
[45:20.580 --> 45:21.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Can I use Larry King as an example?
[45:22.060 --> 45:23.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure, he's a good example for anything.
[45:23.760 --> 45:26.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, because, I mean, gosh, everybody's heard of Larry King.
[45:26.420 --> 45:29.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: You call up the Larry King show, and they let it ring for hours before they pick up.
[45:30.020 --> 45:31.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: That way you don't get charged for just a ring.
[45:32.040 --> 45:33.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right, same thing at WBAI.
[45:33.180 --> 45:37.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: We let people stay on the phone for hours sometimes calling in, and they don't get charged until we pick up.
[45:37.620 --> 45:41.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: They may not even get anybody they're calling, but they, yeah, hold on, and it doesn't charge them.
[45:41.780 --> 45:49.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, here, you let it ring three minutes, and it times out and goes, we're sorry, the call you've made does not answer.
[45:49.640 --> 45:51.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: Please try your call again later.
[45:51.840 --> 45:58.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's now expanding to Pittsburgh, Washington, D.C., Baltimore, you know, the general Washington, D.C.
[45:59.000 --> 46:01.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: area, and San Diego, California has that.
[46:01.560 --> 46:15.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: So if you know somebody in those places, or if you know a business that's closed and they don't have an answer machine, call the number and let it ring for three and a half minutes, and you'll get a recording saying, your call is being disconnected because the party you're calling does not answer.
[46:15.740 --> 46:21.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, that's really serious because that's something that changes the rules of making a phone call.
[46:21.840 --> 46:32.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it used to be that you could call a radio program and let it ring and ring and ring, and you never got charged, and you could stay on the line until the person picked up, and there was no problem there.
[46:32.980 --> 46:33.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: There was never a problem.
[46:35.040 --> 46:37.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, is it only AT&T that's doing this?
[46:37.620 --> 46:42.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's only AT&T, and I got to tell you, I was listening to the Larry King show, and they were griping about it.
[46:42.720 --> 46:44.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: They said, we keep dropping calls.
[46:44.520 --> 46:47.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: Friends, if you want to get on the show, we're not...
[46:47.280 --> 46:54.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: I hate to plug a long distance company, he said, but if you want to call me, call through something other than AT&T, and he told you how to do it.
[46:54.980 --> 46:57.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: He says, use MCI or Sprint or something.
[46:57.400 --> 47:04.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: He goes, for example, dial 10333 plus 1 and our phone number.
[47:04.460 --> 47:10.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: And he said, you'll get through and you'll be able to ring, and MCI won't charge you, and it will not disconnect after three minutes.
[47:10.480 --> 47:16.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: He goes, we're not getting paid to say that, but apparently we're not going to be able to have a talk show without doing it this way.
[47:17.060 --> 47:21.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's something that we at 2600 and Off the Hook are going to be devoting some time to.
[47:21.880 --> 47:29.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: We'll talk to some people in the phone company business and find out just what's at work here, because that's a serious issue.
[47:29.400 --> 47:34.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, you might say, well, you know, you have no business staying on the line for three minutes if somebody doesn't pick up.
[47:35.200 --> 47:35.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, that's not true.
[47:36.080 --> 47:41.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: You always had the right to stay on the phone and let it ring until somebody picks up.
[47:41.580 --> 47:44.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's just, you know, basic common sense there.
[47:44.500 --> 47:48.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: And to change that, I mean, you don't need to change that, okay?
[47:48.080 --> 47:54.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you could do that in the 1950s, you certainly don't need to free up the bandwidth now in the 1990s.
[47:54.500 --> 48:04.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's, if anything, it's a lot cheaper to let a phone ring 25, 30 times, or, you know, 300 times even, as long as there's no voice path being cleared.
[48:04.500 --> 48:08.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, so it's, uh, to me, it represents sheer greed on AT&T's part.
[48:08.960 --> 48:10.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: Emmanuel, let me tell you something.
[48:10.300 --> 48:12.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: They are cheapening our Cadillac phone system.
[48:12.880 --> 48:21.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, for years, America has had, if you'll pardon the expression, a Cadillac phone system, and Europe has always had what I've just, what we've just been talking about.
[48:21.100 --> 48:28.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: You can only call certain places, and after so many minutes, it would go quick, and just drop your call, you wouldn't even get an explanation.
[48:29.140 --> 48:29.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
[48:29.340 --> 48:44.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: And America has always been so proud of the fact that we had a standardized phone system, everything was a standard number of digits, we had three digit area codes everywhere, some places they have anywhere from one to nine digit area codes, other places,
[48:44.900 --> 48:49.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: uh, we'll let it ring two or three, maybe four minutes, and then just clink, drop the call.
[48:49.780 --> 48:53.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're, we're lowering our standards, and our good phone system is gone.
[48:53.600 --> 48:54.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's really sad.
[48:54.640 --> 49:08.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I, I agree with what you're saying, but at the same time, I do think it was necessary for what Judge Green did, only because, you know, back then, back in, in, in the early 80s, the phone company was so huge, so monolithic, and everywhere, you know,
[49:08.400 --> 49:16.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: one out of, uh, ten people worked for the phone company, and it, it was, it was local, it was national, it was international, and there was no competition.
[49:16.360 --> 49:21.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, I'd sure like to see competition on the local level now for New York Telephone, that's something I keep going on about.
[49:21.980 --> 49:23.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I think competition is healthy.
[49:23.560 --> 49:29.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, the way they've done it here, it's messing a lot of people up, because they weren't used to anything other than the way it was.
[49:29.880 --> 49:38.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it's my hope that, uh, you know, within a few years, things will start leveling out, and you'll be able to actually make intelligent choices, and, uh, get some value for your money.
[49:39.300 --> 49:41.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: I want to bring up one point, by the way.
[49:41.260 --> 49:51.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember in the 60s, the way the Gestapo Telephone Company, you could call it Gestapo Bell Telephone, because, you remember when it was illegal to hook up your own phone, and some of us did?
[49:52.180 --> 49:52.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.
[49:52.940 --> 49:55.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, just got caught and fined for it.
[49:55.200 --> 49:55.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Did you really?
[49:55.960 --> 49:57.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: I always just felt guilty about it.
[49:57.500 --> 50:00.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: I never thought anybody actually got caught for hooking up an extension phone.
[50:00.380 --> 50:04.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: I knew people that took phones and hid them under the bed, in case the phone company were to come out.
[50:04.620 --> 50:04.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[50:05.120 --> 50:07.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: I had a speaker phone that I hooked up.
[50:07.900 --> 50:17.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: The phone company was making random checks, and they randomly checked my line, and they said, we detect the presence of a spare telephone that you're not paying for.
[50:17.380 --> 50:18.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Can we come out and take a look?
[50:19.580 --> 50:20.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, sure.
[50:20.980 --> 50:25.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: I ripped the wire out of the wall so quick it just darn near destroyed the plaster.
[50:25.200 --> 50:28.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's a good thing they didn't have the power to just kick in your door and check anyway.
[50:29.160 --> 50:29.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[50:29.880 --> 50:33.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: They were probably just a slight bit away from that power, though.
[50:34.180 --> 50:38.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: They would have charged me a $500 fine if they'd found a phone hooked up illegally.
[50:38.800 --> 50:43.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're starting to run out of time, but I did want to ask you to relate one of your famous stories.
[50:43.220 --> 50:49.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is concerning a problem you had a number of years ago with outgoing service on your telephone line.
[50:49.260 --> 50:53.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you could just give us the details of that, I think we'd learn quite a bit from it.
[50:54.140 --> 50:54.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[50:54.320 --> 50:55.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: I believe I know what you're talking about.
[50:56.360 --> 51:01.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a problem that I experienced, and I bet you there's a few other people out there that have experienced this.
[51:01.520 --> 51:10.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: We got to go back to this wonderful computerized telephone exchange that I have, and many of you poor, unfortunate people I know listening in Brooklyn have got this type of exchange.
[51:11.820 --> 51:19.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure some of you deadbeats, I mean, some of you people have forgotten to pay a bill and the phone company turned your service off and you were not aware of this.
[51:20.240 --> 51:33.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: You picked up the phone, placed a phone call, dial tone came on the line, any digit you dialed, except for zero in my case, would ring and give you a recording telling you, we're sorry, your call cannot be completed as dialed.
[51:34.040 --> 51:37.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Please check the number and dial again or ask your business office to help you.
[51:38.860 --> 51:45.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I hit zero and the operator came on the line and said, can I have the number you're speaking from?
[51:46.260 --> 51:48.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, okay, that's rather strange.
[51:48.820 --> 51:51.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: I told her my number and she says, can I help you?
[51:52.000 --> 51:52.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, yes.
[51:52.880 --> 51:56.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't place a call and I cannot dial 611 for repair service.
[51:57.840 --> 51:59.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't dial anything but the zero operator.
[52:00.040 --> 52:01.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: Can you call repair service for me?
[52:01.540 --> 52:01.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, sir.
[52:02.060 --> 52:03.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, I can't do that.
[52:05.060 --> 52:06.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, why can't you?
[52:06.440 --> 52:08.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: She says, well, I tell you what, we're experiencing problems.
[52:09.400 --> 52:10.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let me call you back.
[52:11.440 --> 52:15.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I gave her the number again and she didn't call me back.
[52:17.160 --> 52:19.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: I've called her again since there's only one operator.
[52:19.900 --> 52:20.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: She knew who I was.
[52:21.100 --> 52:22.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: She kept getting the same operator.
[52:22.300 --> 52:23.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, small town.
[52:23.480 --> 52:23.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[52:23.800 --> 52:30.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: I called back, got the operator again and she wanted to know what my number was again and I told her and I said, listen, why didn't you call me?
[52:30.540 --> 52:31.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: She says, well, we're having problems.
[52:32.120 --> 52:33.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, I understand you're having problems.
[52:34.140 --> 52:35.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Why didn't you call me back?
[52:35.600 --> 52:36.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, your line's disconnected.
[52:37.320 --> 52:38.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, no, it's not.
[52:38.300 --> 52:39.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm calling you from it.
[52:39.760 --> 52:42.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, will you just please call repair service for me?
[52:43.060 --> 52:44.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm sorry, I can't do that.
[52:45.340 --> 52:46.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, okay.
[52:47.240 --> 52:49.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: She says, the equipment just won't let it go through.
[52:49.420 --> 52:50.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's all there is to it.
[52:50.380 --> 52:53.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: My equipment will not let it go through for you.
[52:53.980 --> 53:00.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, well, can you call somebody in repair service for me and have them contact me?
[53:00.340 --> 53:01.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, sir, I can't do that either.
[53:02.580 --> 53:16.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: To make a long story short, after four or five calls to this operator and trying going round and round in circles, I had to go down to the telephone office, drive down there and say, why is my phone not why is it I can get it out on?
[53:17.060 --> 53:18.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: The operator is hateful with me.
[53:18.480 --> 53:22.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: As I recall, as I recall the story, you were red-faced with rage, is that right?
[53:22.500 --> 53:25.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I was definitely enraged, red-faced.
[53:26.560 --> 53:28.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the woman said, calm down, calm down.
[53:29.380 --> 53:30.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: She says, now what's the problem?
[53:30.860 --> 53:34.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I gave her the phone number and I said, the operator was hateful to me.
[53:34.620 --> 53:35.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: She would not call me back.
[53:36.300 --> 53:39.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: She would not pass the word along to the repair service.
[53:39.260 --> 53:40.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: She wouldn't do anything.
[53:41.560 --> 53:43.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I gave the woman at the desk number.
[53:44.180 --> 53:51.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: It turned out somebody with a number similar to mine didn't pay their bill and they transposed the digit and turned my line off.
[53:53.520 --> 53:57.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: But while they were back in the back checking, a man brought in a telephone to be fixed.
[53:57.700 --> 54:02.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, you might as well just throw it in the river as far as getting it repaired is concerned.
[54:02.920 --> 54:04.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: These people don't care about customers.
[54:04.660 --> 54:05.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't care about service.
[54:06.040 --> 54:08.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: And every customer in the business office was staring at me.
[54:08.700 --> 54:11.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: I was giving a lecture there in the office.
[54:11.600 --> 54:14.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: But since then, they have changed that problem.
[54:14.200 --> 54:19.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: They have fixed it so the operator will place the call to repair service even if you've been cut off.
[54:20.040 --> 54:22.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's real sporting of them, isn't it?
[54:23.300 --> 54:27.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they will allow one free call to the repair service.
[54:27.240 --> 54:30.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's not as if repair service cost anything the call in the first place, is it?
[54:30.880 --> 54:31.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[54:31.500 --> 54:34.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a free phone call anyway, so they were just kind of stupid.
[54:34.100 --> 54:38.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a bureaucratic blunder, I guess.
[54:38.340 --> 54:38.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[54:38.780 --> 54:40.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, we're certainly familiar with those here.
[54:41.140 --> 54:45.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, regretfully, we've filled up this hour really quickly and we're out of time.
[54:45.800 --> 54:51.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: What I'd like to do is have you come back in a future week and take some questions from our listeners.
[54:51.800 --> 55:07.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: However, if any of our listeners have questions that they'd like to address to Mr. French, phone freak extraordinaire, I guess is a good way to describe you, they can send those questions in to me, Emmanuel Goldstein, here at the radio program Off the Hook,
[55:07.700 --> 55:14.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: and it's CARE of WBAI, 505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
[55:14.820 --> 55:17.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Any final comments from you, Mr. French?
[55:17.220 --> 55:18.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you say you're going to have me back.
[55:18.840 --> 55:20.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: Are you trying to lower your ratings or what?
[55:21.460 --> 55:24.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, actually, I'm trying to increase the education of our listeners.
[55:24.660 --> 55:33.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think, you know, talking to you is a way to learn quite a bit, both about the history of the telephone system and the way it works now and sometimes the way it doesn't work.
[55:34.160 --> 55:34.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yes.
[55:35.140 --> 55:45.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: I would definitely like to come back and talk with the people and see what their experiences are with the phone system and maybe even talk some historical... I love to talk about historical phones and phone systems.
[55:45.460 --> 55:47.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well, I think a lot of people are interested in that.
[55:47.380 --> 55:52.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know there's people interested in the old systems and you have a lot of knowledge and you have a lot of equipment, too.
[55:52.600 --> 55:55.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: How many telephones have you collected over your years?
[55:56.420 --> 55:57.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, a couple of hundred.
[55:57.820 --> 55:58.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: A couple of hundred phones.
[55:58.680 --> 56:03.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure there's people out there that would love to talk shop with you, so feel free to Maybe write to us.
[56:03.840 --> 56:05.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe we can connect people together.
[56:06.000 --> 56:07.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: I want to thank you very much for joining us.
[56:07.680 --> 56:09.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hey, maybe someday I'll even meet you in person.
[56:09.480 --> 56:10.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Who knows?
[56:10.420 --> 56:10.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[56:11.140 --> 56:12.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Program is off the hook.
[56:12.120 --> 56:16.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: We'll be back again next week, next Wednesday night at 9 p.m.
[56:16.740 --> 56:18.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: I want to thank everybody for listening.
[56:18.220 --> 56:21.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show coming up next.
[56:21.620 --> 56:22.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good night.
[56:33.120 --> 56:34.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll be right back.