Off The Hook - 1991-08-14

[00:03.560 --> 00:16.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: So this idea, it may seem sometimes fancy and pure rhetoric to say, let's create alliances, a solidarity between the first world and the third world in the field of environmental labor.
[00:17.080 --> 00:19.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's an easy sentence to say, but what does it really mean?
[00:20.880 --> 00:32.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think the idea, if you like, of a sensible world community in which the knowledge is there is not a romantic idea.
[00:32.680 --> 00:49.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: I've been involved a bit in Watsonville and lived down there for a while, a major fresh vegetable producing area, where recently the major packers and growers have been trying to shift their operations down to Iroquata in Mexico.
[01:17.200 --> 01:20.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're listening to WBAI New York.
[01:20.400 --> 01:21.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's time for Off the Hook.
[01:28.950 --> 01:33.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:34.510 --> 01:39.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:40.050 --> 01:42.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: It couldn't get much worse.
[01:42.470 --> 01:47.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: Put on diddly bomb, but I best expect the worst.
[01:48.390 --> 01:51.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hope that's understood, but diddly bomb!
[01:57.470 --> 01:59.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a very good evening to everyone.
[01:59.550 --> 02:00.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[02:00.890 --> 02:02.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: The program is Off the Hook.
[02:02.190 --> 02:11.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: The show about technology and, I guess, deviant criminal behavior with regards to telephones and computers and things like that.
[02:11.730 --> 02:21.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: We'd like to keep you updated on what's happening throughout the world of technology, things that you really should know about, things that a lot of people don't know about.
[02:21.530 --> 02:29.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: We'll be taking lots of phone calls today, so for all those weeks where we haven't been taking phone calls, tonight we'll be making up for it.
[02:29.150 --> 02:33.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, please give us a call at 279-3400.
[02:33.890 --> 02:36.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have lots of interesting things to talk about.
[02:36.810 --> 02:42.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: You may not have known it, but I've been away for the past three or four weeks, and you've been hearing my voice on tape.
[02:43.250 --> 02:44.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, I can reveal it now.
[02:45.050 --> 02:47.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've been here only on magnetic media.
[02:48.390 --> 02:54.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I'm here live tonight, and we will be taking phone calls, 212-279-3400.
[02:54.710 --> 02:59.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, keep your dial glued and your phone and all that kind of thing.
[03:00.510 --> 03:07.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to play a little bit of music first, update you on some news and observations of various things going on.
[03:08.190 --> 03:08.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Stay tuned.
[03:24.720 --> 03:29.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I just committed a technical blunder here, and we're going to figure out what went wrong.
[03:29.760 --> 03:36.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we have a CD player, and it's very easy to make these mistakes, so I'm going to go right back to the beginning and start over again.
[03:38.100 --> 03:39.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Break it on tape.
[03:39.760 --> 03:40.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bless you.
[03:41.840 --> 03:42.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bless you.
[03:43.760 --> 03:44.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, bless you.
[03:46.280 --> 03:47.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bless you.
[03:47.540 --> 03:51.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Where are you going, my beautiful friend?
[03:51.160 --> 03:55.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is this the road that we take till the end?
[03:55.840 --> 03:59.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: And if we break down, are we left behind?
[04:00.140 --> 04:03.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is this the highway of all mankind?
[04:04.760 --> 04:07.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: Axis spins all round and round, we go.
[04:08.600 --> 04:12.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Where we're going, no one really knows.
[04:13.320 --> 04:16.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Here we, here we, here we, here we, here we go.
[04:17.180 --> 04:18.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: Feel the fire.
[04:19.440 --> 04:20.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: Feel the fire.
[04:20.200 --> 04:21.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wait till blow.
[04:22.740 --> 04:23.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Come on.
[04:24.580 --> 04:25.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Come on.
[04:25.600 --> 04:26.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Switch on.
[04:26.080 --> 04:26.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Party time.
[04:27.360 --> 04:28.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Switch on the stove.
[04:29.720 --> 04:30.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do what you like.
[04:31.440 --> 04:33.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: Gonna have a ball tonight.
[04:34.200 --> 04:35.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's have a ball.
[04:35.780 --> 04:37.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Down at the floor.
[04:40.020 --> 04:40.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Come on.
[04:41.600 --> 04:42.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: I want the rain.
[04:43.360 --> 04:45.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Here we, here we, here we go.
[04:45.460 --> 04:46.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Go again.
[04:47.460 --> 04:48.140]  Go again.
[04:48.140 --> 04:48.600]  Look it right.
[04:49.000 --> 04:49.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go.
[04:50.180 --> 04:51.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Don't be no pain.
[04:51.980 --> 04:54.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: All I see is that's the rain.
[04:56.240 --> 04:57.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: After again.
[04:58.240 --> 04:59.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: After again.
[05:00.400 --> 05:01.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: After again.
[05:02.540 --> 05:03.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: After again.
[05:03.830 --> 05:07.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Get up and clean your teeth and have a shave.
[05:08.700 --> 05:12.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's 1am, let's go out to a rave.
[05:13.540 --> 05:16.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: One more in before we hit that grave.
[05:17.660 --> 05:20.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's harder than a microwave.
[05:21.360 --> 05:21.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wave.
[05:22.880 --> 05:24.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Come on.
[05:25.100 --> 05:25.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Come on.
[05:25.920 --> 05:26.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Come on.
[05:26.500 --> 05:26.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Come on.
[05:27.260 --> 05:28.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Switch on the stove.
[05:29.580 --> 05:30.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do what you like.
[05:31.580 --> 05:34.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna have a ball tonight.
[05:34.440 --> 05:35.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's have a ball.
[05:35.980 --> 05:37.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Down at the floor.
[05:37.920 --> 05:38.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Lift it on up.
[05:39.060 --> 05:39.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Lift it on.
[05:40.320 --> 05:41.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Come on.
[05:41.740 --> 05:42.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Come on.
[05:43.020 --> 05:46.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: Switch on the stove.
[05:46.800 --> 05:48.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do what you like.
[05:48.740 --> 05:51.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna have a ball tonight.
[05:51.480 --> 05:52.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's have a ball.
[05:53.240 --> 05:54.620]  Down at the floor.
[05:56.400 --> 06:00.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I am the Bishop of Brixton, on my way to the garden party in the palace.
[06:01.480 --> 06:02.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Where's the party, officer?
[06:06.140 --> 06:07.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: Come on in.
[06:08.480 --> 06:09.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's party time.
[06:10.680 --> 06:11.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: Switch on the stove.
[06:12.720 --> 06:13.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do what you like.
[06:14.580 --> 06:17.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're gonna have a ball tonight.
[06:17.540 --> 06:18.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's have a ball.
[06:19.040 --> 06:20.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Down at the floor.
[06:20.460 --> 06:21.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Here we go.
[06:21.320 --> 06:21.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Party time.
[06:21.920 --> 06:22.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bring it on down.
[06:29.620 --> 06:31.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Aw, Jazzy.
[06:39.370 --> 06:41.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Where is the fair deal?
[06:41.810 --> 06:43.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not in this land.
[06:43.850 --> 06:47.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: But still you try to Get what you can.
[06:48.210 --> 06:56.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know that it's bad, but If you insist Here's one more chance now That you just missed.
[06:57.790 --> 06:59.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Come on in.
[06:59.870 --> 07:00.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Lights.
[07:00.890 --> 07:01.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Party time.
[07:01.410 --> 07:03.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Switch off the stove.
[07:03.990 --> 07:04.430]  Woo!
[07:04.910 --> 07:05.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do what you like.
[07:06.630 --> 07:09.200]  We're gonna...
[07:09.200 --> 07:10.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's have a ball.
[07:10.760 --> 07:12.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Down at the floor.
[07:12.580 --> 07:13.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: I believe you.
[07:13.580 --> 07:14.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: I believe you.
[07:15.360 --> 07:16.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: Come on in.
[07:16.900 --> 07:17.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: Lights.
[07:18.200 --> 07:18.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Party time.
[07:19.340 --> 07:20.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Switch off the stove.
[07:21.440 --> 07:21.680]  Woo!
[07:21.940 --> 07:22.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do what you like.
[07:23.600 --> 07:26.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna have a ball tonight.
[07:26.520 --> 07:27.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's have a ball.
[07:32.400 --> 07:33.680]  Global warming.
[07:33.680 --> 07:34.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bring away.
[07:35.420 --> 07:37.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Napalm cornflakes for my special.
[07:38.480 --> 07:38.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: K.
[07:39.540 --> 07:43.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: What's the health department got to say?
[07:43.800 --> 07:47.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Don't smoke more than 50 fags a day.
[07:50.180 --> 07:50.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sorry.
[07:51.400 --> 07:51.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sorry.
[07:52.340 --> 07:52.840]  I'm
[08:03.460 --> 08:04.100]  sorry.
[08:04.340 --> 08:04.920]  I'm sorry.
[08:06.580 --> 08:09.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: Come on, turn the lights.
[08:09.640 --> 08:10.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's party time.
[08:11.280 --> 08:12.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Switch on your stove.
[08:13.380 --> 08:14.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do what you like.
[08:15.260 --> 08:17.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna have a ball tonight.
[08:18.240 --> 08:19.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's have a ball.
[08:19.980 --> 08:21.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: Down at the globe.
[08:21.880 --> 08:22.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Come on.
[08:22.860 --> 08:26.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: Come on, turn the lights.
[08:26.340 --> 08:27.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's have a ball.
[08:28.200 --> 08:29.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: Switch on your stove.
[08:30.160 --> 08:31.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let, let, let, let's have a ball.
[08:32.700 --> 08:35.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: We gonna have a ball tonight.
[08:35.420 --> 08:36.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's have a ball.
[08:37.060 --> 08:38.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Down at the globe.
[08:42.060 --> 08:47.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Title track from the new Big Audio Dynamite 2 record.
[08:49.000 --> 08:50.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's called The Globe.
[08:52.180 --> 08:55.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: As in the planet, the world, the earth.
[09:07.170 --> 09:15.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: And yes, that's Sifo the Human beatbox you hear rapping there along with Nick Jones and, uh, whoever else is playing in that band.
[09:15.830 --> 09:17.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, there's a couple of good songs on this CD.
[09:17.550 --> 09:20.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: And this is one of the things I brought back with me from England.
[09:22.290 --> 09:28.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Of course, it's already been released here in America, but, uh, I brought it back anyway.
[09:38.000 --> 09:53.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, more important than, uh, bringing back a CD is, uh, bringing back a lot of memories, bringing back a lot of experience, and that's something that, uh, that I've certainly tried to get a lot of in the past couple of weeks.
[09:55.180 --> 09:58.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's, uh, interesting things going on out there.
[09:58.680 --> 10:02.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: And lots of deviations with the way that we do things here.
[10:02.780 --> 10:07.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: For instance, uh, take a look at, uh, at simple things like payphones.
[10:08.120 --> 10:13.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, we take them for granted here, but overseas, uh, they work entirely differently.
[10:14.100 --> 10:15.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: France, for instance.
[10:15.600 --> 10:21.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: A country where, if you don't have a phone card, well, there's really not a whole lot you can do.
[10:21.380 --> 10:25.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because, uh, you need phone cards even to call toll-free numbers.
[10:25.820 --> 10:28.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: You won't get through unless you have one of these phone cards.
[10:29.000 --> 10:32.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, they're very nice little, uh, little things to have.
[10:32.880 --> 10:34.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: They have pictures on them and everything.
[10:34.780 --> 10:43.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, they have a little, I guess, magnetic reader in there somehow that, uh, that reads and writes to your card.
[10:43.480 --> 10:47.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: It tells you how much, uh, how much money you have or how many units you have left.
[10:47.380 --> 10:50.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can get them, uh, in, uh, 50 units, I believe.
[10:50.920 --> 10:53.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Which I think is equal to about 50 francs.
[10:53.440 --> 10:58.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's hard to, uh, it's hard to keep track of all this when it's, uh, coming at you so fast.
[10:58.420 --> 11:11.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, you're forced to buy this card to make phone calls and watch as your francs or the units or whatever slowly disappear into nothingness.
[11:11.960 --> 11:31.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, having made lots of toll-free calls because, when you're over in a foreign country, there's a service you can, uh, you can use, um, that AT&T and I believe MCI also, uh, offers, um, where you can call a special number over there and get connected to an operator here in the states.
[11:31.500 --> 11:38.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Then that operator here in the states will connect you to any number you want if you give her a calling card number that is valid.
[11:39.620 --> 11:43.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: hopefully your calling card number, but they don't really check that much, obviously.
[11:44.500 --> 11:48.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, that's something that you pay for when you get back.
[11:48.460 --> 11:59.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: You get a nice hefty bill for all the calls you made, but, uh, in some countries, you have to have a way to call that toll-free number and you need a, a card to do that.
[11:59.980 --> 12:05.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Other countries, money still works, but, uh, they seem to be moving towards something that I find very disturbing.
[12:05.760 --> 12:12.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: I notice this in, uh, in Holland, France, Italy as well, and, uh, even England to a degree.
[12:13.960 --> 12:15.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Italy's got a very annoying system.
[12:16.480 --> 12:26.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, if anybody out there has seen, you know, I don't even remember the name of it, but, uh, I went to see it because I was dragged to it by some friends of mine over there.
[12:26.960 --> 12:32.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, the new Bruce Willis film where he's trying to rob something out of the Vatican.
[12:32.500 --> 12:33.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[12:33.200 --> 12:35.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a stupid film, and I don't like it very much.
[12:35.280 --> 12:40.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, the one decent thing in that film is it shows you some interesting shots of Italian payphones.
[12:41.620 --> 12:44.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, they're these orange monsters.
[12:45.380 --> 12:46.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're horrible, these things.
[12:47.200 --> 12:53.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're cheaply made, they don't work half the time, and nobody really understands what to do with them.
[12:53.980 --> 12:57.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, in Italy, you get these, uh, these little phone cards.
[12:58.460 --> 13:00.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you're supposed to stick them into the phone.
[13:01.080 --> 13:06.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: And from that point on, you can dial things, except you have to pretty much know what it is you want to dial before you even try.
[13:07.740 --> 13:12.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, they don't tell you that you have to rip off the corner of the card or the card will not work.
[13:12.980 --> 13:17.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, about 25 minutes is usually spent by foreigners trying to figure out why the card isn't working.
[13:18.480 --> 13:26.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, once you figure out how to cut off the end of the card and stick it into the phone, then you have to figure out how to dial what it is you want to dial.
[13:26.400 --> 13:40.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, if you have the little card that, um, AT&T or MCI will send you if you ask them with a list of all the, uh, the phone numbers to contact, uh, an operator in the United States, you can call that number.
[13:41.480 --> 13:46.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, let's say you wanted to call something in another country, not in the United States.
[13:46.340 --> 13:49.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's very difficult because instructions are not posted.
[13:49.900 --> 13:54.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: You don't know what, uh, what you have to dial in order to access that other country.
[13:54.760 --> 14:02.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I must have gone through, uh, about seven or eight different phone calls to different operators asking, how do I place an overseas call?
[14:02.960 --> 14:05.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Not an overseas call, an international call to another country.
[14:06.120 --> 14:08.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I've got this, I've got this phone card here.
[14:08.640 --> 14:11.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's got 5,000 lira on it.
[14:11.840 --> 14:15.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's a 5,000 lira card, which really isn't all that much money.
[14:16.500 --> 14:22.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I just wanted to place a one-minute call to Holland to tell the people there when I was arriving.
[14:23.660 --> 14:28.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I called back to the United States, to the USA direct operator, to ask them if they knew how.
[14:28.800 --> 14:38.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they gave me, they actually told me how to call internationally from an Italian payphone, which I thought was extremely nice of them, and, uh, I thanked them very much for it.
[14:38.280 --> 14:43.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, it was the wrong information, so it wasn't really any good whatsoever.
[14:44.220 --> 14:59.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Finally, after dealing with operators that didn't speak any English, and, you know, of course I didn't speak any Italian, and there were no signs up telling me how to do this, I finally found out through somebody, somebody, that if you dial 00, plus the country code,
[14:59.560 --> 15:01.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: plus the city code, you get through most of the time.
[15:02.300 --> 15:04.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, that's what happened.
[15:04.680 --> 15:10.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, several occasions I was told that I had to book calls hours in advance.
[15:11.660 --> 15:17.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, this is, in Italy, being told that you have to book a call to call Holland.
[15:17.800 --> 15:18.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know?
[15:18.900 --> 15:24.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it's not the Soviet Union, it's not Mongolia, it's Holland, it's just, you know, a little ways away.
[15:24.840 --> 15:26.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: But they were still giving me the wrong information.
[15:26.860 --> 15:36.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: So that's something that I found kind of reassuring, is that, no matter where you go, operators will always give you the wrong information, if you, uh, if you ask.
[15:37.320 --> 15:41.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's, uh, more frustrating when you're a foreigner.
[15:42.160 --> 15:48.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: I feel sorry for all the foreigners that are, in this country, trying to make head or tail out of the, uh, telephone system here.
[15:50.180 --> 15:54.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: At least, with this telephone system though, it's, uh, it's a bit more logical.
[15:55.220 --> 15:55.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know?
[15:55.700 --> 15:57.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: You dial zero to get an operator.
[15:57.160 --> 16:00.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you don't dial zero to get an operator any place else that I can see.
[16:00.500 --> 16:07.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: You dial something like, one, three, zero, or, uh, or, six, five, two, or something crazy like that.
[16:08.140 --> 16:12.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, everybody knows this, and if you don't know it, well, you just can't make any calls.
[16:12.920 --> 16:17.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a lot we take for granted here that, uh, other people just are not used to.
[16:17.900 --> 16:25.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, uh, you don't take it too seriously, you won't get that upset by it, but, uh, it can be pretty upsetting.
[16:26.160 --> 16:28.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, phone cards, yes, phone cards are a horrible thing.
[16:29.620 --> 16:36.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, they're a convenience to some people, but not allowing coins is, uh, is a very big mistake.
[16:36.580 --> 16:44.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you're walking around a foreign city and you have nothing but, uh, but coins in your pocket, you don't have a, a card, you're out of luck, you can't make any phone calls.
[16:44.760 --> 16:48.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you don't know where to buy a phone card, you can't make any phone calls either.
[16:49.480 --> 16:52.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, disturbing as, as all hell, believe me.
[16:53.840 --> 17:01.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, some, uh, very interesting things went on over there while I was, uh, visiting various people.
[17:02.060 --> 17:15.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: I went over to Amsterdam, which, right now, seems to be the capital of computer hacking and phone-freaking, for that matter, because, while it's not, per se, a legal to do these things, it's not illegal either.
[17:16.000 --> 17:24.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, you can crack into various computer systems, you can make phone calls without paying for them, and you won't get into trouble for it.
[17:25.240 --> 17:30.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: What's going on over there right now, though, is that people are exploring various, um, various systems.
[17:31.160 --> 17:43.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're exploring military computer systems, uh, they're exploring telephone networks of other countries, and it's not so much getting something for nothing, it's, uh, it's learning how it all ties together.
[17:43.920 --> 17:56.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: And watching these people, I learned more than I've learned in the past, uh, several years, I think, because, you didn't have to always look over your shoulder, you didn't always have to, think that somebody was going to, kick in the door and arrest you for,
[17:57.100 --> 18:01.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: uh, tapping in the wrong numbers, or, uh, logging into the wrong computer.
[18:01.700 --> 18:18.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: You were able to, sit there and ask questions, and, I was able to actually, watch some people, completely, completely penetrate within, a couple of minutes, a military computer system, in the United States.
[18:18.680 --> 18:23.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, the ease with which this is, this is possible is just, it's staggering.
[18:23.760 --> 18:26.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, you, you hear about it, in the United States.
[18:26.280 --> 18:29.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: You, uh, you read occasionally the stories in the newspapers.
[18:30.800 --> 18:47.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, until you see it actually happening in front of you, and you, you understand what it is that's being done, and how it works, you know, you, you miss out on how simple it really is, and how incredibly, incredibly insecure, our nation's computers really are.
[18:48.420 --> 18:53.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, of course, there are those that will say, well, you just lock up all the Dutch hackers, and the problem will go away.
[18:53.680 --> 18:59.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, those people are about as wrong as they can possibly be, because, these holes will still be there.
[18:59.460 --> 19:05.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, we're talking about, holes and systems that have been around for, for years, many years.
[19:05.380 --> 19:07.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: They just have not been fixed.
[19:07.200 --> 19:16.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if they haven't been fixed in military systems, you know they haven't been fixed in, in other systems, like, college systems, or, uh, commercial systems, various things like that.
[19:17.500 --> 19:21.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, we need to expose this, a bit more.
[19:21.840 --> 19:25.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: We need to, to figure out what all these holes are.
[19:25.700 --> 19:37.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we need to, uh, you know, to, to, to be honest, to, uh, ask people, what is wrong with our computer system, and not be all upset when they actually tell you what is wrong with it.
[19:38.660 --> 19:43.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, it's, uh, simply staggering, the things, the things that I saw.
[19:44.220 --> 19:52.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's, it's hard to convey it over the radio, but, uh, there are, there are holes out there that are just endless.
[19:53.330 --> 20:04.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, a couple of issues, actually, the last issue of 2600, the hacker quarterly that, uh, I work on, we printed a program, that is meant to run on a UNIX system.
[20:04.600 --> 20:13.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that program, basically, goes through the entire dictionary, and, the dictionary is located on the UNIX computer system.
[20:13.600 --> 20:15.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Most, most computer systems have a dictionary file.
[20:15.940 --> 20:26.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: And what this program does is, it targets a particular user, a user name on that system, and then checks all the words in the dictionary, against the encrypted password.
[20:26.980 --> 20:29.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, how can it check against an encrypted password?
[20:29.620 --> 20:32.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it cannot decrypt the password.
[20:32.540 --> 20:38.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: It uses the, uh, the NSA standard, which is, uh, I, I believe so far, uncrackable.
[20:38.880 --> 20:43.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: So it can't just, apply an algorithm and, uh, and come up with a password.
[20:43.280 --> 20:56.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: But what it can do, it can take the word, Apple, say, and use the same encryption standard, and then, check it to see if it matches, the encrypted password, that is, the password for this user.
[20:56.720 --> 21:00.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, the password file on the UNIX system, is completely open to everybody.
[21:01.020 --> 21:02.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's, uh, it's a public file.
[21:02.500 --> 21:10.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it has to be, because if it were not, there'd be no way for, uh, the computer to, check, to see if you entered the right password.
[21:10.840 --> 21:15.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: It has to be able to access this file, and everybody has to be able to have access to that file.
[21:15.700 --> 21:23.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, if you simply look at every line of that password file, you will see that everybody has an encrypted password.
[21:24.100 --> 21:34.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you can take the word, Apple, or whatever word it is that you want to use, and simply encrypt it, and then see if anybody has that particular encryption on their password.
[21:35.020 --> 21:37.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: If they do, then you've got their password.
[21:37.500 --> 21:38.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's as simple as that.
[21:39.060 --> 21:49.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, the program that we ran, in, uh, in the issue, last issue, was incredibly primitive, in comparison to some of the things that are going on.
[21:49.460 --> 21:59.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: What people are able to do, and this really isn't anything new, it's been going on for some time, but, uh, again, in the United States, you don't really have the freedom to, to watch it happen.
[22:00.180 --> 22:08.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: In Holland, what people are able to do, freely and openly, is download the password file, the entire password file, from a computer system.
[22:09.320 --> 22:10.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Nothing illegal there.
[22:10.680 --> 22:14.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Everybody has access to that, to that, um, to that file.
[22:15.080 --> 22:21.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: As long as you have access to the system, there's nothing, uh, nothing wrong with looking at that file.
[22:21.440 --> 22:24.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: What they do is, they copy it to their personal computer.
[22:24.840 --> 22:34.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then, on the personal computer, they're able to run a program that simply goes through that entire password file, and tries all kinds of deviations.
[22:34.500 --> 22:39.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: For instance, let's say, the username was, uh, was, Jay Smith.
[22:39.960 --> 22:42.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, it was, uh, John Smith's account.
[22:43.440 --> 22:45.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: He logs in with the username, Jay Smith.
[22:46.140 --> 22:51.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: This program that, uh, that analyzes the password file, will try, Jay Smith as the password.
[22:52.540 --> 23:00.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we'll, encrypt that particular string, Jay Smith, and see if it matches the encrypted string that, uh, that is the password.
[23:01.340 --> 23:03.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: If that doesn't work, it will try something else.
[23:03.820 --> 23:04.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: It'll try, reversing it.
[23:05.440 --> 23:07.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, spelling Jay Smith backwards.
[23:07.340 --> 23:08.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: See if that works.
[23:08.260 --> 23:10.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: It'll try, Jay Smith with a number after it.
[23:10.940 --> 23:13.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: It'll try, replacing numbers with letters.
[23:14.180 --> 23:15.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Try all kinds of things.
[23:15.260 --> 23:16.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: It'll do whatever you want.
[23:16.680 --> 23:22.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, the amazing thing about this, is that there is absolutely nobody that can stop it from running.
[23:22.520 --> 23:24.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because it's running on your computer.
[23:24.420 --> 23:25.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're not even on the system.
[23:25.880 --> 23:26.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're not even there.
[23:26.700 --> 23:30.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can't, be caught doing this because, you're doing it on your own system.
[23:30.860 --> 23:32.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you're not even doing anything wrong.
[23:33.540 --> 23:40.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's true in this country too, because you're not breaking any law until you actually log in using somebody else's name and account.
[23:41.800 --> 23:45.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, these programs are becoming more and more advanced.
[23:45.180 --> 24:00.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: And when you see how poor the defense is against this kind of thing in military systems, you realize that there really is no defense at this point in time.
[24:00.900 --> 24:11.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: That the military systems are wide open and they're really trying to keep this quiet because a lot of people are able to access things and become super user.
[24:11.420 --> 24:20.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can't read every single file on the whole network, the whole system and hence get other systems on the network.
[24:20.180 --> 24:29.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, it's kind of scary I guess if system security is your game and you think you're winning the battle because you're not winning the battle.
[24:29.700 --> 24:31.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: A lot more has to be done.
[24:31.560 --> 24:34.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: A lot more safeguards have to be installed.
[24:36.340 --> 24:38.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, you'll be hearing a lot more about this in the future.
[24:38.580 --> 24:41.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: I can almost guarantee that.
[24:42.000 --> 24:45.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I said we were going to take phone calls and I do mean it and I'm sorry for rambling on for so long.
[24:46.280 --> 24:48.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Our number is 212-279-3400.
[24:48.920 --> 24:51.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: We'll get some phone calls on the line and we'll go right to them.
[24:53.560 --> 24:56.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: A couple of other things that I experienced when I was away.
[24:57.880 --> 24:58.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Virtual reality.
[24:59.400 --> 25:01.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you ever hear of virtual reality?
[25:01.440 --> 25:09.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's that neat thing you do where you put on a helmet and you put on a glove and all of a sudden you're in another world.
[25:09.680 --> 25:17.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like the next step in video games where you're actually able to see the environment that you're in.
[25:17.900 --> 25:24.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're able to take a step and actually move forward and shoot something.
[25:24.900 --> 25:27.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Of course, this all revolves around shooting things right now.
[25:27.880 --> 25:29.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's kind of at the primitive stage.
[25:30.460 --> 25:38.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: But they have these interactive games where you match somebody else who also is wearing the helmet and the glove.
[25:38.720 --> 25:41.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you can see this person in this artificial environment.
[25:42.360 --> 25:46.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you can point your gun at him and you can shoot him and he actually explodes and all that.
[25:46.760 --> 25:47.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's great fun.
[25:47.680 --> 25:52.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: But right now, it's at the real primitive stage.
[25:53.440 --> 26:11.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Eventually, what you'll be able to see is all kinds of interactive, artificial environment, sophisticated things such as driving cars, such as walking down a street that you're not really walking down.
[26:12.260 --> 26:13.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: All kinds of sensations.
[26:14.240 --> 26:18.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're even going to figure out how to do this with sex or something.
[26:18.260 --> 26:20.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not quite sure how that's going to work, but it's going to be interesting when they do it.
[26:20.640 --> 26:21.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can rest assured of that.
[26:23.680 --> 26:30.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, virtual reality is something that you'll hear more of in the years to come.
[26:31.500 --> 26:35.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: You'll see it even in your arcades, in your malls.
[26:36.000 --> 26:47.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: You'll see, for like $2 a shot, you'll be able to sit in a racing car and actually steer a wheel and turn your head and you can turn around and look behind you and see the cars behind you and things like that.
[26:47.560 --> 26:52.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sort of like you have the screen in your head and you can manipulate it whichever way you want to do.
[26:53.340 --> 26:57.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was able to go to a demonstration of this.
[26:58.820 --> 27:02.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sort of the debut of this virtual reality in England.
[27:02.900 --> 27:04.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I was doing all the wrong things.
[27:04.900 --> 27:07.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I was looking up at the sky.
[27:07.520 --> 27:09.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was trying to shoot myself.
[27:10.000 --> 27:11.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, of course, none of that was working.
[27:11.840 --> 27:14.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I was just sort of annoying the people there by trying to do the wrong things.
[27:15.120 --> 27:27.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I think once they get beyond that stage, once they make it so that you can do the wrong things and actually have a reaction and not just have these simplistic games where you're just shooting people like all the other games.
[27:27.720 --> 27:29.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's just a bit more sophisticated.
[27:29.980 --> 27:31.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Then it might be interesting.
[27:31.600 --> 27:35.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, right now it's at that stage where it's developing.
[27:36.480 --> 27:44.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think with the right kind of research, right kind of development, it can be one of the most amazing things ever developed.
[27:47.100 --> 27:49.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: But it's got to be done right.
[27:49.860 --> 27:50.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's where we come in.
[27:50.980 --> 27:54.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's where we lend our expertise and our opinions.
[27:54.980 --> 27:57.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I want to hear people's expertise and opinions now.
[27:58.600 --> 28:04.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: The number, once again, is 212-279-3400.
[28:04.660 --> 28:07.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have a lot of calls waiting to get on patiently.
[28:07.340 --> 28:09.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we're going to go to those.
[28:09.500 --> 28:11.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have a couple of other things we're going to get to.
[28:11.380 --> 28:12.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: We'll do that a little bit later.
[28:13.280 --> 28:14.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: So let's see who's out there.
[28:15.440 --> 28:16.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[28:17.760 --> 28:18.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hi.
[28:18.160 --> 28:24.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have a question about the non-New York telephone payphones.
[28:25.000 --> 28:25.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[28:26.200 --> 28:48.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: When I use the New York telephone payphones and I want to reach MCI, all of the New York telephone payphones have free access to MCI by either dialing a 950 number or a 1-800-950 number or a 10222 number.
[28:48.980 --> 29:03.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, with some of these non-New York telephone payphones, none of those things work without you having to deposit coins into the phone first.
[29:04.460 --> 29:29.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: I want to know if you know of any way that you can get free access to MCI on some of those telephones and whether or not it's legal for them to not get free access on some of these York telephone pay telephones.
[29:30.360 --> 29:39.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's not legal for them to block access to alternate phone companies, but that doesn't mean that they don't do it anyway.
[29:39.900 --> 29:40.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: They do it all the time.
[29:40.720 --> 29:49.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have yet to find an alternative payphone that will allow you to dial a carrier access code, 10XXX, as you mentioned, 10222 for MCI.
[29:50.320 --> 29:51.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: They'll block it off.
[29:51.500 --> 29:54.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Usually, at the zero, they'll block it off and say, you can't make this call.
[29:56.180 --> 30:03.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: 950 calls are supposed to be allowed and are not supposed to be blocked and are not supposed to have the Touch-Tones turned off after you get through to them.
[30:04.380 --> 30:09.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you see a phone like that, usually you will see also a number for the PSC on the phone.
[30:09.860 --> 30:11.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's required now, too.
[30:11.680 --> 30:13.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Even on New York telephone phones, that's required.
[30:14.560 --> 30:17.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: If that happens to you, remember where the phone is.
[30:17.260 --> 30:20.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Call up and report it because that's the only way things are going to change.
[30:20.420 --> 30:22.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: The PSC simply has its hands full.
[30:22.680 --> 30:27.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a lot of times, they don't even know what it is that they're supposed to be regulating, unfortunately.
[30:28.780 --> 30:49.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: If a lot of people complain about this and say, you know, I want to reach a 950 number without being asked for a huge amount of money, of course, people are going to have to learn what 950 numbers are, that basically they're ways of using alternate long-distance companies without having to put money into a phone by using an account code and,
[30:49.640 --> 30:52.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: you know, your Touch-Tone access code.
[30:54.420 --> 31:02.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Those non-New York telephone payphones, apparently they're not under the same regulations that the New York telephone...
[31:02.700 --> 31:03.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yes, they are.
[31:03.620 --> 31:05.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're under the exact same regulations.
[31:05.240 --> 31:06.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: The PSC regulates both.
[31:07.220 --> 31:10.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, well, New York telephone can do certain things.
[31:10.400 --> 31:18.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: For instance, New York telephone is not allowed to charge for information within the state from payphones.
[31:18.780 --> 31:23.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: And private payphones are allowed to do that, but they still are answerable to the PSC.
[31:24.080 --> 31:28.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they have to, you know, they cannot flagrantly break the rules.
[31:29.200 --> 31:31.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I can complain to the PSC
[31:34.750 --> 31:39.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: where they're asking for money in order to access the number?
[31:39.510 --> 31:39.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely.
[31:40.230 --> 31:43.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: The only problem is the PSC isn't open 24 hours a day.
[31:43.470 --> 31:45.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're only open until, I think, 4.30.
[31:45.510 --> 31:46.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a lot of times they're busy.
[31:47.110 --> 31:51.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: So they make it very hard for you to actually complain and get something out of it.
[31:52.450 --> 31:53.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: But you've got to keep trying.
[31:53.990 --> 31:58.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, if you don't get through the PSC, then, you know, write a letter to an elected representative or something.
[31:58.830 --> 32:02.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because everybody can sympathize with what you're saying.
[32:02.850 --> 32:11.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: They may not know what a 950 number is, but they do know these payphones on the street corners eat their money and don't give them value in return lots of times.
[32:11.850 --> 32:21.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't want to put down all private payphones, but I'm sure the people that run legitimate private payphones are more upset by this than anybody because they've got to deal with the bad image that they're getting.
[32:22.310 --> 32:28.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, well, some of them are good and then there are some others that are really bad.
[32:28.690 --> 32:33.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I guess that's sort of a consequence of the deregulation.
[32:33.330 --> 32:37.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, have you seen the ones that allow you to call anywhere in the country for 30 cents a minute?
[32:38.170 --> 32:39.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I've seen those too.
[32:39.890 --> 32:44.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a good deal because a regular New York telephone payphone will charge you $2 for that first minute.
[32:44.990 --> 32:47.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: But they're cheaper the minutes afterwards.
[32:47.010 --> 32:50.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: But if you're just making a one-minute call, it makes a lot of sense to use that kind of a phone.
[32:51.230 --> 32:51.410]  Yeah.
[32:51.830 --> 32:53.010]  All right, thanks for the information.
[32:53.150 --> 32:53.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for calling.
[32:53.830 --> 32:54.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[32:54.790 --> 32:55.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[32:55.430 --> 32:57.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: 212-279-3400.
[32:57.610 --> 32:58.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[32:59.030 --> 33:00.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-279-3400.
[33:00.450 --> 33:01.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, that's me.
[33:01.310 --> 33:02.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's hear from you now.
[33:02.190 --> 33:02.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[33:02.670 --> 33:02.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[33:03.410 --> 33:04.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've got a question.
[33:05.090 --> 33:14.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, first of all, I am not exactly a customer that a long-distance company would go after, but AT&T gave me an offer I couldn't refuse.
[33:15.210 --> 33:19.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: If I switched to AT&T, they would give me a $10 gift certificate.
[33:21.550 --> 33:28.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: And AT&T gift certificates are very useful because you can pay your phone bill with them even if you don't have any long-distance calls at all.
[33:30.090 --> 33:31.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you can pay...
[33:31.950 --> 33:33.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Your phone, you know, from New York Telephone.
[33:34.130 --> 33:34.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[33:34.970 --> 33:37.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's because, you know, the phone company couldn't be bothered...
[33:37.850 --> 33:42.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, AT&T puts the, you know, bills you through your New York Telephone bill.
[33:43.130 --> 33:43.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[33:43.670 --> 33:48.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the phone company couldn't be bothered to check whether you've made long-distance calls by AT&T or not.
[33:48.650 --> 33:52.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: So they'll take that gift certificate and just apply it to your phone bill.
[33:52.350 --> 33:52.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[33:52.790 --> 34:00.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, I just got a gift certificate from Sprint, and I was thinking of trying that exact same thing and see if my phone company gets all confused when I get a certificate from Sprint.
[34:00.410 --> 34:02.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: They pay to the order of a local phone company on it.
[34:02.550 --> 34:02.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[34:03.170 --> 34:09.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: If it says pay to the order of the phone company, something other than pay to the order of Sprint, that's perfectly good on your phone bill.
[34:09.850 --> 34:17.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: And in fact, Hallmark Cards had an offer where he got a $5 gift certificate for Sprint, and it said he didn't have to use Sprint in order to use it.
[34:18.230 --> 34:22.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: In other words, you can do it on your pay your phone bill, whether or not make Sprint calls at all.
[34:22.490 --> 34:23.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's a good deal.
[34:23.910 --> 34:26.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, but, you know, it's only going to happen once, right?
[34:26.630 --> 34:31.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, well, it depends how desperate these guys are to make you switch phone companies.
[34:31.310 --> 34:34.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, I don't know about Sprint what other promotions they're going to have.
[34:35.150 --> 34:41.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, you know, they promoted this over a period of, oh, a month or so, you know, around Mother's Day and stuff.
[34:42.630 --> 34:48.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I think it was, if you bought $5 of Hallmark merchandise at a participating dealer, they'd give you a $5 gift certificate.
[34:48.630 --> 34:49.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: Boy.
[34:49.610 --> 34:53.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Which means you got $5 worth of free Hallmark merchandise, essentially, right?
[34:53.310 --> 34:54.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a good deal.
[34:54.190 --> 34:59.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: I had to fill out this whole big long survey for AT&T just to get a $5 gift certificate in return.
[34:59.230 --> 35:00.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right, but...
[35:00.330 --> 35:01.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: I feel cheated now.
[35:01.470 --> 35:07.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, now another thing I'd like to know is, is there any source of information regarding long-distance carriers?
[35:09.050 --> 35:11.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, regarding long-distance carriers.
[35:11.250 --> 35:12.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: A reasonable source of information.
[35:13.090 --> 35:19.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, there's a group in D.C., and somebody's been telling me about them, but I don't have a number or an address or even a name.
[35:19.830 --> 35:20.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have the...
[35:20.470 --> 35:20.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[35:21.270 --> 35:23.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, I don't know if this is a current address.
[35:23.230 --> 35:24.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's called TRAC.
[35:24.810 --> 35:26.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think it was something like that.
[35:26.590 --> 35:28.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: The Communications Research and Action Center.
[35:28.750 --> 35:29.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: They...
[35:29.110 --> 35:29.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right, that's it.
[35:29.770 --> 35:30.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: You got it.
[35:30.230 --> 35:38.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know what the deal is now, but it used to be if you sent a dollar and a postpaid envelope to them, they'd send you a thing called teletips.
[35:38.550 --> 35:39.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, do you have an address?
[35:39.830 --> 35:40.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe it's an old address?
[35:40.510 --> 35:41.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, I've got an address.
[35:41.630 --> 35:43.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know how current it is, but here we go.
[35:44.250 --> 35:44.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[35:47.540 --> 35:49.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
[35:50.940 --> 35:52.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: It has to be on here somewhere.
[35:53.860 --> 35:54.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh...
[35:54.140 --> 35:55.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I have all my papers in front of me.
[35:55.760 --> 35:56.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: I...
[35:56.040 --> 35:57.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've got it right in front of me.
[35:57.440 --> 35:57.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[35:57.460 --> 35:58.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh...
[35:58.380 --> 35:59.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Make checks payable, too.
[36:01.580 --> 36:02.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, great.
[36:05.000 --> 36:05.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh...
[36:05.520 --> 36:08.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, while you're struggling to find that...
[36:08.020 --> 36:08.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, struggling on that.
[36:08.820 --> 36:09.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, uh...
[36:10.080 --> 36:12.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: I can answer some more questions, uh...
[36:12.020 --> 36:12.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, now, now, now.
[36:12.820 --> 36:14.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've got another thing, which...
[36:14.220 --> 36:14.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Observation.
[36:15.240 --> 36:16.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know about, uh...
[36:17.060 --> 36:17.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[36:17.600 --> 36:18.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: New York State calls.
[36:19.100 --> 36:24.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Almost all long-distance companies will charge the same for interest state calls in New York State, from what I've...
[36:24.340 --> 36:25.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: From my experience.
[36:25.800 --> 36:31.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: And there's one which I use for interest state calls because, uh...
[36:31.000 --> 36:31.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: It...
[36:31.600 --> 36:36.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: It doesn't charge the surcharge on the bills on my New York telephone bill.
[36:36.840 --> 36:37.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, the...
[36:37.360 --> 36:40.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: The surcharge of AT&T and MCI charge and all that.
[36:41.080 --> 36:41.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[36:41.400 --> 36:42.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: What is that, ITT?
[36:42.300 --> 36:42.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's, uh...
[36:42.980 --> 36:44.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: What used to be ITT, apparently.
[36:45.280 --> 36:45.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh...
[36:45.540 --> 36:46.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, wait.
[36:46.180 --> 36:46.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: What's it called again?
[36:46.960 --> 36:48.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's called something crazy.
[36:48.440 --> 36:48.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh...
[36:48.620 --> 36:49.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Metromedia bought them out.
[36:49.820 --> 36:50.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Metromedia.
[36:50.880 --> 36:55.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Metromedia, but they have a three-letter acronym, which I don't quite understand, but, uh...
[36:55.820 --> 36:57.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's Metromedia long distance.
[36:57.720 --> 36:57.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[36:59.680 --> 37:00.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, uh...
[37:00.480 --> 37:02.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, uh...
[37:02.320 --> 37:11.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, they charge a couple extra cents for the first minute, I find, but they don't charge this, uh, two or three or four or five percent surcharge.
[37:11.600 --> 37:12.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: So if you're talking...
[37:12.060 --> 37:14.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you're talking more than, say, two or three minutes...
[37:14.000 --> 37:14.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[37:14.540 --> 37:15.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: It pays to use them.
[37:15.820 --> 37:18.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they have a 950 number that works throughout the country.
[37:18.260 --> 37:18.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, they have...
[37:18.740 --> 37:20.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, they have a 950 number.
[37:20.140 --> 37:22.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: In fact, I got, uh, some literature from them.
[37:23.000 --> 37:24.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: They use the, uh, IT...
[37:24.580 --> 37:26.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: The ITT 950 number.
[37:27.080 --> 37:27.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[37:27.680 --> 37:29.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: 950-0488, I believe.
[37:29.940 --> 37:30.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[37:32.000 --> 37:34.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, because, you know, they used to...
[37:34.280 --> 37:35.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, MCI...
[37:35.280 --> 37:36.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not MCI...
[37:48.300 --> 37:48.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh...
[37:48.780 --> 37:52.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: They, they're publicized in the 10488 in their literature, which, you know, it's kind of interesting.
[37:53.180 --> 37:55.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, of course, you can make worldwide calls, because ITT is a...
[37:56.700 --> 37:57.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh...
[37:57.020 --> 37:58.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Not on their 950s, though.
[37:58.340 --> 37:59.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: And their 950 number, it's...
[37:59.900 --> 38:00.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: They still have...
[38:00.700 --> 38:03.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: I talked to them about this a few days ago, and they said, yes, we...
[38:03.460 --> 38:06.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're planning to offer overseas calls one day soon.
[38:07.040 --> 38:08.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I don't know what they're waiting for.
[38:08.560 --> 38:10.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the whole world has overseas calls now.
[38:10.800 --> 38:10.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh...
[38:10.980 --> 38:11.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is...
[38:11.540 --> 38:13.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you're using the 950-0488 number...
[38:13.380 --> 38:15.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, they can't do it on a 950-0488?
[38:15.200 --> 38:15.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's amazing.
[38:16.020 --> 38:16.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it is amazing.
[38:16.840 --> 38:25.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it would have been a real help to me if it had worked, because I could have had my friends call me while I was in Europe, you know, using my 950 number, which made a lot more sense than using...
[38:25.480 --> 38:29.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: That is amazing, because ITT has offered overseas calls for years.
[38:29.920 --> 38:33.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, overseas calls using, you know, direct dial, OnePlus.
[38:34.080 --> 38:36.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I'm just amazed that they didn't...
[38:36.480 --> 38:40.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: that they wouldn't do it for the calling card calls, because, uh, what's the big deal?
[38:41.160 --> 38:41.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[38:41.880 --> 38:44.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you can do it one way, you can do it the other, as far as I know, right?
[38:44.860 --> 38:45.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: Without too much hassle.
[38:46.000 --> 38:46.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's true.
[38:47.120 --> 38:48.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, let's see...
[38:48.580 --> 38:49.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: You got that address?
[38:49.340 --> 38:50.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because I want to move on some more calls.
[38:51.260 --> 38:51.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: No!
[38:51.580 --> 38:52.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's see...
[38:55.400 --> 38:55.720]  Uh...
[38:58.620 --> 38:59.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I'm going to read a letter.
[38:59.900 --> 39:00.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to put...
[39:00.320 --> 39:02.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to fade you down, and you...
[39:02.120 --> 39:03.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to come back to you after I read this letter.
[39:04.060 --> 39:04.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, fine.
[39:05.020 --> 39:05.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hopefully...
[39:05.340 --> 39:05.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: I got it.
[39:05.900 --> 39:06.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: I got it.
[39:06.260 --> 39:06.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: I got it.
[39:06.880 --> 39:08.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, let's go ahead and read it.
[39:08.000 --> 39:08.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[39:08.500 --> 39:09.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Post Office Box.
[39:09.780 --> 39:10.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: Track.
[39:10.440 --> 39:11.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: T-R-A-C.
[39:11.280 --> 39:12.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Post Office Box.
[39:12.880 --> 39:15.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: 1-2-0-3-8.
[39:16.720 --> 39:17.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Washington, D.C.
[39:18.780 --> 39:20.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: 2-0-0-0-5.
[39:22.260 --> 39:25.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you want a phone number, I can even give you a phone number for them.
[39:26.160 --> 39:26.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[39:26.900 --> 39:33.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: The phone number is 2-0-2-4-6-2-2-5-2-0.
[39:34.660 --> 39:40.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: And last I heard, this was probably from about a year or two ago, if you send a dollar and a post...
[39:40.520 --> 39:50.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: and a self-dressed stamped envelope to them, they'll send you their thing called Teletips, which has basically residential, long-distance information.
[39:51.380 --> 39:55.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not in the form that I find terribly useful, but it does have some information.
[39:55.520 --> 39:56.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, good enough.
[39:56.600 --> 39:56.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[39:57.000 --> 39:57.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for calling.
[39:57.880 --> 39:58.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, you're welcome.
[39:58.480 --> 39:58.580]  Bye.
[39:59.740 --> 40:01.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: 279-3400, area code 212.
[40:01.640 --> 40:02.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: The program is off the hook.
[40:02.680 --> 40:08.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Emmanuel Goldstein with you until 10 o'clock, answering questions and receiving comments of all kinds.
[40:08.900 --> 40:14.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've gotten a few letters that have piled in while I was away.
[40:14.680 --> 40:23.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: One person says on your show several months back, you mentioned a computerized phone number that automatically tells the number you're calling from.
[40:25.140 --> 40:28.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now that I could use that number, of course I've misplaced it.
[40:28.280 --> 40:32.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: I would greatly appreciate you sending the number on the enclosed postcard, which I have already done.
[40:32.580 --> 40:44.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: But just in case the person is listening, or if there's another person that has had the same hard luck, the number in New York State, and this person was in New York State, is 958.
[40:44.260 --> 40:46.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Dial 958 and you will hear your phone number repeated.
[40:46.680 --> 40:52.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Actually, that's only the case in 212, 718 and 516 area codes.
[40:52.520 --> 40:58.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: And part of 914, I believe, another part of 914 is area code.
[40:58.920 --> 41:00.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: The code is 990.
[41:01.520 --> 41:14.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a special phone company thing to find out what number you're calling from, which is always handy to know, especially if you're trying to, say, plug in an extension, and you have more than one line in your room, and you're trying to figure out which line is which.
[41:14.960 --> 41:16.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: It makes life a whole lot easier.
[41:16.900 --> 41:19.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, of course, the phone company won't tell you any of this.
[41:20.880 --> 41:25.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: A few other people have written in asking how to subscribe to 2600.
[41:26.140 --> 41:27.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll give you a phone number, okay?
[41:27.740 --> 41:28.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can call the phone number.
[41:28.740 --> 41:30.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: The phone number gives you all the information you want.
[41:30.800 --> 41:35.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's area code 516-751-2600.
[41:36.400 --> 41:37.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's right, 2600.
[41:39.520 --> 41:42.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the new issue should be out probably in about a month.
[41:44.080 --> 41:45.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's the summer issue.
[41:45.580 --> 41:51.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I know it's getting towards fall, but technically if it comes out before fall begins, it's still the summer issue.
[41:51.460 --> 41:54.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: So we're legally covered that way.
[41:56.280 --> 42:06.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, something that has been kind of a sticking point with me has been access to government officials, okay?
[42:07.720 --> 42:15.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, how many of you call the White House on a regular basis to give your opinion on something?
[42:15.780 --> 42:20.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: To say, you know, I'm happy with this or I'm not happy with that?
[42:22.320 --> 42:27.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's not easy when you can't afford the phone call, is it?
[42:28.160 --> 42:28.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Of course not.
[42:29.380 --> 42:29.560]  Of course not.
[42:29.620 --> 42:34.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I don't know if people are aware of this.
[42:34.440 --> 42:37.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Actually, let me see if I can actually do this on the air.
[42:37.840 --> 42:39.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've never tried this one before.
[42:40.080 --> 42:47.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to get a dial tone there and call up the operator,
[42:53.090 --> 42:54.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: which you're not supposed to be able to do.
[42:54.790 --> 42:57.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, it's already hung up on me, so I'm going to try it one more time.
[43:05.590 --> 43:07.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we've dialed the right...
[43:09.770 --> 43:11.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think we've dialed the right number of digits.
[43:12.430 --> 43:13.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's see if we get an operator.
[43:25.400 --> 43:25.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know what?
[43:26.120 --> 43:27.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: I made a mistake that we had an operator.
[43:28.000 --> 43:31.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: The operator hung up on us because we didn't say anything and we could not hear the operator.
[43:31.320 --> 43:31.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: See, it's kind of...
[43:31.920 --> 43:37.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a difficult thing here because if I let go of the button too soon, it hangs up on me.
[43:40.360 --> 43:43.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: But if I stay on for too long, the person will hang up on me.
[43:43.780 --> 43:44.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I think I'm through.
[43:44.780 --> 43:47.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, and sometimes I just get a dial tone for no reason at all.
[43:47.900 --> 43:50.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is the WBAI phone system, folks, so...
[43:51.100 --> 43:53.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have to learn to live with it.
[43:57.040 --> 43:59.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: I can't believe the number of digits I have to dial.
[43:59.120 --> 43:59.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: It didn't work again.
[43:59.780 --> 44:03.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to try it one more time, then I'm going to give up in frustration.
[44:06.550 --> 44:07.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, this is not working out.
[44:08.050 --> 44:08.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is not working at all.
[44:09.950 --> 44:14.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, we can't get an AT&T operator on this particular phone system here.
[44:14.970 --> 44:18.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: But basically, the gist of it is that you cannot call the White House Collect.
[44:18.270 --> 44:20.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: They do not accept Collect calls at all.
[44:20.450 --> 44:34.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's really unfortunate because that means a lot of people that either don't have phones or just can't afford long-distance phone calls are not able to call up and voice an opinion on something like, say, a war that happens to be going on at the moment.
[44:35.850 --> 44:44.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, what we have to make things a little bit easier are alternate ways of getting through.
[44:44.590 --> 44:45.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, I'm going to demonstrate something here.
[44:45.850 --> 44:57.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to demonstrate another way of accessing things and how people might be able to get through when they wouldn't be able to ordinarily.
[44:57.510 --> 44:59.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, and I hope this works.
[45:07.910 --> 45:10.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: Wireless, please enter your code.
[45:11.150 --> 45:12.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I'm going to enter my code now.
[45:12.910 --> 45:13.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll explain this in a second.
[45:15.210 --> 45:19.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: The table and wireless, please enter your code.
[45:19.910 --> 45:20.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: Standby.
[45:26.400 --> 45:31.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Please enter star 5 to program's 800 number.
[45:33.120 --> 45:34.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I'm going to enter star 5.
[45:35.580 --> 45:38.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: Please enter your 800 number.
[45:38.420 --> 45:40.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to enter my 800 number.
[45:40.540 --> 45:44.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Of course, I'm going to fade it down while I do it so everybody doesn't know my 800 number.
[45:44.640 --> 45:48.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: To program's, please enter the long distance number.
[45:49.500 --> 45:50.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: 4.
[45:50.420 --> 45:52.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: The long distance number recorded.
[45:53.000 --> 45:53.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: Enter star.
[45:54.060 --> 45:56.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I already have something programmed here.
[45:57.100 --> 45:57.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: 4.
[45:58.060 --> 45:58.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: 800.
[45:59.040 --> 46:02.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, it's going to give my number and I'm going to talk over it so that people don't hear my number.
[46:03.260 --> 46:03.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: 2.
[46:03.920 --> 46:04.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[46:05.660 --> 46:08.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: The long distance number recorded is...
[46:09.160 --> 46:09.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: 2.
[46:09.520 --> 46:09.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: 1.
[46:10.120 --> 46:10.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: 2.
[46:11.180 --> 46:11.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: 2.
[46:11.980 --> 46:12.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: 7.
[46:12.740 --> 46:13.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: 9.
[46:14.640 --> 46:14.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: 3.
[46:14.800 --> 46:15.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: 4.
[46:15.720 --> 46:16.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: 0.
[46:16.740 --> 46:17.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: 0.
[46:17.840 --> 46:20.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: Please enter your 800 number.
[46:20.660 --> 46:24.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I've got that particular 800 number programmed to go to WBAI.
[46:24.760 --> 46:26.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: What I'm going to do now...
[46:27.440 --> 46:30.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: Programs, please enter the long distance number.
[46:31.280 --> 46:32.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: 4.
[46:32.320 --> 46:37.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to enter the White House as my long distance number.
[46:40.300 --> 46:41.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Which is 202.
[46:42.340 --> 46:42.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: 4.
[46:42.960 --> 46:43.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: 5.
[46:43.240 --> 46:43.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: 6.
[46:44.040 --> 46:44.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: 1.
[46:44.600 --> 46:44.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: 4.
[46:45.160 --> 46:45.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: 1.
[46:45.740 --> 46:45.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: 4.
[46:46.660 --> 46:47.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: 800.
[46:47.500 --> 46:50.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we're going to fade down for my 800 number so everybody doesn't call this.
[46:51.180 --> 46:51.320]  4.
[46:52.400 --> 46:52.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: 2.
[46:52.880 --> 46:52.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: 2.
[46:53.800 --> 46:54.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: 2.
[46:54.720 --> 46:57.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: The long distance number recorded is...
[46:57.600 --> 46:57.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: 2.
[46:58.020 --> 46:58.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: 0.
[46:58.920 --> 46:59.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: 2.
[46:59.620 --> 47:00.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: 4.
[47:00.840 --> 47:01.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: 5.
[47:01.640 --> 47:02.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: 6.
[47:02.700 --> 47:03.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: 1.
[47:03.780 --> 47:04.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: 4.
[47:04.520 --> 47:05.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: 1.
[47:05.340 --> 47:05.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: 4.
[47:05.800 --> 47:05.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: 4.
[47:07.120 --> 47:07.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: 4.
[47:07.720 --> 47:09.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: Enter your 800 number.
[47:09.860 --> 47:10.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: 1.
[47:10.640 --> 47:10.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: 1.
[47:12.260 --> 47:13.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: 1.
[47:21.500 --> 47:22.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: 2.
[47:22.800 --> 47:22.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: 2.
[47:22.920 --> 47:22.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: 2.
[47:24.520 --> 47:25.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: 2.
[47:33.160 --> 47:34.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: 2.
[47:35.360 --> 47:36.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: 2.
[47:37.520 --> 47:38.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: 5.
[47:39.380 --> 47:39.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: 5.
[47:41.460 --> 47:42.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: 5.
[47:45.340 --> 47:46.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: 5.
[47:47.240 --> 47:47.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: 5.
[47:47.800 --> 47:50.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think slightly more than what a call to that number would cost.
[47:51.120 --> 47:54.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: But it is convenient to have somebody say, you know, follow you around the country.
[47:54.900 --> 48:00.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you're going to Los Angeles, you can give somebody one phone number and they'll always be able to call that number and reach you somehow.
[48:01.000 --> 48:08.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Alright, let's give that number a call and see if we actually are able to get to the White House here.
[48:11.570 --> 48:13.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, I'm going to fade it down while I dial the number 2.
[48:13.870 --> 48:14.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm no fool.
[48:16.690 --> 48:19.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: And hopefully it won't hang up on us and we will actually get through.
[48:27.850 --> 48:28.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, it's ringing somewhere.
[48:30.450 --> 48:31.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: White House?
[48:32.030 --> 48:33.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, is this the White House?
[48:33.750 --> 48:34.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, it is.
[48:34.650 --> 48:37.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, I was wondering if you could tell me what your 800 number is?
[48:37.690 --> 48:39.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: We don't have an 800 number.
[48:39.550 --> 48:40.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you don't have one.
[48:40.250 --> 48:41.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you have a 900 number?
[48:41.470 --> 48:42.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, we don't.
[48:42.330 --> 48:42.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Aha.
[48:42.710 --> 48:44.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you plan on getting either one?
[48:44.330 --> 48:45.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not to my knowledge.
[48:45.610 --> 48:46.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, thank you.
[48:46.370 --> 48:46.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: You've been very helpful.
[48:47.930 --> 48:51.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: That is the reaction you'll get, except usually they're ruder than that.
[48:51.150 --> 48:51.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: She was rather polite.
[48:52.770 --> 48:54.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: They won't do it, but we can.
[48:54.970 --> 48:55.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: How can we?
[48:56.610 --> 48:57.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Simple.
[48:57.430 --> 49:01.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: There must be a couple of extraordinarily rich people out there.
[49:02.130 --> 49:02.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Alright?
[49:02.990 --> 49:05.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: All you extraordinarily rich people have to do it.
[49:05.150 --> 49:06.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you don't really have to be that extraordinarily rich.
[49:06.950 --> 49:08.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: But you get this service.
[49:08.870 --> 49:09.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay?
[49:09.370 --> 49:11.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if I was extraordinarily rich, I would do it.
[49:11.250 --> 49:13.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: But you get the service that I just demonstrated.
[49:13.230 --> 49:13.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay?
[49:13.890 --> 49:15.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: You set up your 800 number.
[49:15.990 --> 49:19.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then you tell people, call this 800 number and reach the White House.
[49:20.670 --> 49:21.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you'll see.
[49:22.070 --> 49:25.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: You'll see how much public opinion actually gets to the White House.
[49:25.910 --> 49:27.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: Which does not happen today.
[49:27.950 --> 49:28.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay?
[49:28.570 --> 49:33.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: You'll get public opinion from all sorts of people that cannot afford to place the phone call now.
[49:33.510 --> 49:39.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, anybody interested in doing this, contact me at the radio station.
[49:39.430 --> 49:41.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll be happy to lend advice.
[49:41.530 --> 49:43.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I think it would be a remarkable public service.
[49:43.770 --> 49:47.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: And let's hope somebody actually does that.
[49:47.990 --> 49:55.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: The address here at the radio station, off the hook, care of WBAI, 505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
[49:55.730 --> 50:01.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or they can leave a message for me over at 2600-516-751-2600.
[50:02.790 --> 50:06.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, our phone number here, 212-279-3400.
[50:06.590 --> 50:09.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's see who else we can get out there.
[50:09.710 --> 50:10.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[50:11.370 --> 50:12.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is WBAI.
[50:12.390 --> 50:12.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's what it is.
[50:12.990 --> 50:13.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on the air.
[50:13.970 --> 50:14.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, hello.
[50:14.830 --> 50:15.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: How are you doing?
[50:15.810 --> 50:16.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, how are you?
[50:16.890 --> 50:17.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have a question.
[50:18.250 --> 50:18.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[50:19.070 --> 50:22.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Were you playing music in the background while you talked a little bit ago?
[50:23.510 --> 50:27.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, I was playing music in the background while I was talking a little bit ago.
[50:27.570 --> 50:28.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, I was.
[50:28.190 --> 50:32.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: I thought, like, my radio had, like, two stations, you know, when that happens.
[50:32.510 --> 50:37.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, WBAI has been described as many stations all coming at you at the same time.
[50:38.030 --> 50:39.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: I play music in the background while I talk.
[50:41.770 --> 50:45.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I think you have a lot of things going in the background while you're talking.
[50:45.370 --> 50:48.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: But why don't you ask a question and see if I can actually come up with an answer for it.
[50:50.090 --> 50:52.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, now I'm playing music in the background while I talk.
[50:53.250 --> 50:54.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: My question is this.
[50:55.510 --> 50:58.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have a comment, too.
[50:59.030 --> 51:00.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why can't people just, like, write a letter?
[51:01.430 --> 51:02.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Why can't people write a letter?
[51:02.590 --> 51:03.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, of course, they can write a letter.
[51:03.890 --> 51:07.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, we have a study here at the radio station.
[51:07.950 --> 51:14.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: We've noticed that, you know, if you want to get commentary on something, one in a hundred people...
[51:14.590 --> 51:16.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: These are kind of arbitrary numbers, but it's something like this.
[51:16.870 --> 51:18.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: One in a hundred people will make a phone call.
[51:19.430 --> 51:19.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right?
[51:19.970 --> 51:22.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: The people that are on the line now, they're one in a hundred.
[51:22.330 --> 51:29.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a hundred other people or 99 other people out there that are either too busy or too lazy or just don't care enough to make the phone call.
[51:29.350 --> 51:32.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Then there's one in a thousand people that will write a letter.
[51:33.450 --> 51:35.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because writing a letter takes effort.
[51:35.710 --> 51:37.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm the worst offender here.
[51:37.330 --> 51:40.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's hard to pick up a pen and write something.
[51:40.170 --> 51:42.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: God knows the last time I picked up a pen to write something.
[51:42.470 --> 51:46.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: I use a computer word processor and I don't even do that to write to people.
[51:46.310 --> 51:51.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, you can say, yeah, write a letter, but people are not going to do it.
[51:51.250 --> 51:53.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why don't you send it to the White House Internet nodes?
[51:54.570 --> 51:56.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think the White House is on the Internet.
[51:56.830 --> 52:00.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: If it was on the Internet, I think I'd be told about that by now.
[52:01.090 --> 52:03.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: It might have a top-secret Internet node.
[52:03.630 --> 52:04.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's possible too.
[52:04.930 --> 52:08.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I know there's lots of people out there looking for top-secret nodes like that.
[52:09.090 --> 52:10.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: And God bless them, I hope they find it.
[52:11.190 --> 52:12.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: I pointed...
[52:12.350 --> 52:13.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, here's my question.
[52:13.310 --> 52:14.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: I point...
[52:14.310 --> 52:16.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because this is the technology show, right?
[52:16.430 --> 52:16.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[52:17.130 --> 52:18.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I point...
[52:18.130 --> 52:20.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: I had a video camera connected to the back of my TV.
[52:21.110 --> 52:21.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[52:21.510 --> 52:24.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I was filming myself, like, sitting there watching myself.
[52:24.690 --> 52:24.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[52:25.070 --> 52:27.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then I got really creative and I point...
[52:27.270 --> 52:28.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is like virtual reality.
[52:28.790 --> 52:33.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I pointed at the, like, the TV, to see the TV, watching the TV.
[52:34.270 --> 52:35.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it weirded it out on me.
[52:36.550 --> 52:43.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: But I think I saw, like, that platonic idea of everything and nothingness.
[52:43.130 --> 52:44.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's all put together.
[52:44.810 --> 52:45.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think...
[52:45.230 --> 52:46.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think I saw a God.
[52:47.670 --> 52:50.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, if you saw a God, I hope you, uh...
[52:50.850 --> 52:51.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: I hope you...
[52:51.650 --> 52:54.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: You talked to him about a few things that are going on around here.
[52:54.750 --> 52:55.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, um...
[52:55.270 --> 52:57.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, sir, we gotta go, uh, so...
[52:57.290 --> 52:58.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sorry, throwing the plug here.
[52:59.110 --> 52:59.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[52:59.390 --> 53:00.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, this is for, um...
[53:00.810 --> 53:02.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wait, Walter Mosley?
[53:02.770 --> 53:02.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[53:02.930 --> 53:13.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: New York, uh, New York Times compatriot of, um, John Markoff wrote a book review in the infamous New York Times book review section.
[53:13.450 --> 53:21.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I just want to tell you how he describes, um, John Markoff and, uh, friend Katie Hafner's book Cyberpunk.
[53:21.610 --> 53:27.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just like, for a quarter, um, Cyberpunk is overlong, a bit melodramatic, and at times repetitive.
[53:28.390 --> 53:37.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, um, you can buy it from Simon & Schuster for $22.95, and it's 368 pp dots long.
[53:37.830 --> 53:38.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[53:39.270 --> 53:42.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: Listen, sir, that's fascinating news, but we do have to move on to some other phone calls.
[53:42.470 --> 53:45.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks so much for calling, and, uh, watch your voice.
[53:46.090 --> 53:46.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: It might stay that way.
[53:47.930 --> 53:49.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: 212-279-3400.
[53:49.970 --> 53:50.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hey, listen to this.
[53:53.030 --> 53:58.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: The 911 emergency number is not in effect in the area where you are.
[53:58.550 --> 54:01.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: Please hang up and dial O for operator.
[54:02.150 --> 54:03.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is a recording.
[54:04.250 --> 54:04.510]  Ha ha!
[54:08.240 --> 54:09.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yes, it's beautiful.
[54:10.500 --> 54:12.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks, Claude, uh, for, for handing that to me.
[54:14.060 --> 54:15.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: 212-279-3400.
[54:15.440 --> 54:16.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now I'm gonna gamble.
[54:16.260 --> 54:20.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have a light here that I think is still broken, even though it's been broken for about four months.
[54:21.300 --> 54:27.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: And since all the lights are lit, and this light is not lit, I'm going to gamble that there is a phone call on that light anyway.
[54:28.320 --> 54:29.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm gonna press the button.
[54:29.620 --> 54:39.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, it's possible that you'll hear a dial tone, in which case I will have made a fool of myself, but it's also possible that there is somebody on that line that is invisible and otherwise would simply be skipped.
[54:39.940 --> 54:42.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: So let's see if my gamble pays off.
[54:42.680 --> 54:43.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[54:43.480 --> 54:44.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on the air.
[54:45.000 --> 54:45.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello?
[54:45.540 --> 54:45.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[54:46.540 --> 54:46.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi.
[54:47.100 --> 54:47.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you're right.
[54:47.800 --> 54:49.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you would have been skipped on any other show, I'll bet.
[54:50.020 --> 54:50.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
[54:51.140 --> 54:52.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe I always call up on this line.
[54:53.300 --> 54:54.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's why it never picks up.
[54:54.680 --> 54:54.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[54:55.300 --> 54:56.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, here's my problem.
[54:56.940 --> 54:58.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: You could probably help me with this.
[54:58.160 --> 54:58.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, go ahead.
[54:59.880 --> 55:08.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: I have chronic problems connecting to bulletin boards and mainframes from my modem.
[55:09.440 --> 55:19.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: If I'm using, like, emulator, you know, terminal emulator software, then I could usually get on, but then, you know, usually I have to use, like, a slow board rate, right?
[55:19.800 --> 55:20.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[55:20.360 --> 55:31.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, um, a lot of times I'll just, all of a sudden I'll be working on the mainframe and then, like, you know, I'll just be typing characters of garbage will show up, and then I'll be disconnected.
[55:31.740 --> 55:41.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: And on the bulletin boards and stuff, a lot of times I can't even connect, or I have, you know, maybe I'll have to dial ten times to connect, and then I'll get disconnected, you know, like, in the middle of a session, this kind of stuff.
[55:41.540 --> 55:45.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is this my phone line for the quality of my modem, or can I do anything about it?
[55:45.800 --> 55:50.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, what you need to do is, you need to, um, to eliminate all possibilities.
[55:50.460 --> 55:51.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, how many boards do you call?
[55:53.680 --> 55:57.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, well, this is, this is generally whatever, whatever one I call.
[55:57.740 --> 55:58.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: I always have this problem.
[55:58.660 --> 55:59.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, so, you know.
[55:59.560 --> 56:01.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not the same board time after time.
[56:01.680 --> 56:02.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's different boards.
[56:02.720 --> 56:04.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's the APA bulletin board.
[56:04.400 --> 56:06.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can get on, but that's, that's local.
[56:06.300 --> 56:07.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe that's a symptom right there.
[56:07.960 --> 56:09.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: I, that one's usually clean.
[56:09.400 --> 56:09.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[56:10.260 --> 56:13.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you say, what, it just disconnects?
[56:13.580 --> 56:16.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, either, like, I don't connect at all.
[56:16.520 --> 56:21.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Like, you know, it'll connect, you'll hear the tones connecting, and then I'll get disconnected right away.
[56:21.600 --> 56:22.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is this 1200 board?
[56:23.480 --> 56:26.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, yeah, that's a, that's a 1200.
[56:26.060 --> 56:32.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, usually, like, like, when I'm using, when I'm, when I'm using the emulation software, Uh-huh.
[56:32.100 --> 56:33.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can only get on at, like, 300.
[56:34.140 --> 56:34.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[56:34.640 --> 56:36.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you ever get disconnected at 300?
[56:36.620 --> 56:37.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, I do.
[56:37.400 --> 56:43.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, so, I would say it's got something to do with, uh, with a phone connection somewhere along the line.
[56:43.480 --> 56:47.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I would say, yes, probably your phone connection, since it's happening on more than one board.
[56:48.220 --> 56:53.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, what you should really do, uh, do you know where the interface is coming into your house?
[56:54.100 --> 56:54.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[56:54.440 --> 56:56.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Can you plug directly into that and see if you have a problem?
[56:57.180 --> 56:57.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Try that.
[56:58.260 --> 56:58.600]  Uh-huh.
[56:58.820 --> 57:05.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you have a problem there, then you know at least, if there is a problem with your phone line, it's the phone company's fault and not yours.
[57:05.600 --> 57:09.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Another thing you should try doing is, um, you're in New York?
[57:09.780 --> 57:10.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[57:10.060 --> 57:10.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[57:11.440 --> 57:16.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Try calling a number, uh, in your exchange, ending with 9932.
[57:17.660 --> 57:24.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: 9932 is a silent number, uh, and, and what that will do is it'll, you'll call it and you'll just hear absolutely nothing.
[57:25.420 --> 57:30.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you hear static, if you hear a hum, you'll know that there's noise on your line that shouldn't be there.
[57:30.520 --> 57:31.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: You should hear nothing but silence.
[57:31.860 --> 57:36.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Stay on that for about five minutes and see if you hear, you know, an unreasonable amount of, of noise of any kind.
[57:37.120 --> 57:44.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, if you can't find a 9932 number in your area, I know there's one out, uh, at the 2600 office, 516-751-9932.
[57:45.140 --> 57:48.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Again, that's something the phone company has to, uh, to isolate problems like this.
[57:48.940 --> 57:59.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: But since, since they, they charge you now to come into your house if the problem is with your equipment, you should have access to the same kinds of troubleshooting, uh, that they have access to.
[57:59.460 --> 58:03.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, so give that a shot and, uh, you know, let us know if it doesn't work.
[58:03.240 --> 58:04.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: We'll try to figure it out.
[58:04.240 --> 58:05.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, thanks a lot.
[58:05.120 --> 58:05.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[58:05.960 --> 58:07.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Have time for a couple more calls.
[58:07.600 --> 58:08.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[58:09.360 --> 58:10.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, hello.
[58:10.320 --> 58:10.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi.
[58:12.060 --> 58:24.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, yes, I just wondered if some, I just wondered if sometime you would, uh, dial 2-1-1, which, uh, I think, uh, if you haven't talked about it before, should be self-evident of what the game is.
[58:25.120 --> 58:25.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: And what is that?
[58:27.180 --> 58:30.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, it's a automated credit, uh, system.
[58:30.340 --> 58:31.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Have they gone back to automated credit?
[58:32.020 --> 58:33.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: They, they took that away for a while.
[58:33.500 --> 58:34.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Have they really gone back to it?
[58:34.560 --> 58:35.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, absolutely.
[58:35.800 --> 58:36.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Huh?
[58:36.180 --> 58:37.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: At least in my exchange.
[58:37.520 --> 58:37.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah?
[58:37.860 --> 58:38.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you're in New York?
[58:38.980 --> 58:39.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[58:39.740 --> 58:40.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: So just try it.
[58:40.960 --> 58:43.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, I mean, you know, it's self-evident.
[58:44.240 --> 58:47.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, well, uh, I invite everybody out there to give it a try now and...
[58:47.920 --> 58:49.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Several times give it a try.
[58:49.380 --> 58:53.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, see, see what, what you can learn from it and we'll talk about it maybe next week.
[58:53.280 --> 58:53.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, okay.
[58:53.920 --> 58:54.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, thanks for calling.
[58:55.240 --> 59:11.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: By the way, folks, by the way, this is a late-breaking news flash and I really can't reveal many more details than this, but, but, but, but, there is out there a three digit, yes, a three digit AT&T calling card being passed around.
[59:11.720 --> 59:22.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and basically the way it works is you dial zero plus the number on the AT&T network, you dial these three magic digits and you hit a pound sign and the call goes through.
[59:23.300 --> 59:26.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Three digits as opposed to the 14 that they usually request.
[59:26.980 --> 59:29.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, we're going to be doing an expose on this.
[59:29.280 --> 59:32.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're not going to give out the three digits, but look, it's only a thousand possibilities.
[59:32.740 --> 59:39.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, so, actually I'm told that the first two digits, uh, work and the one after that really doesn't matter.
[59:39.760 --> 59:40.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: So there's even less possibilities.
[59:41.140 --> 59:43.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, if you feel adventurous, give it a try.
[59:43.820 --> 59:46.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have to hit the pound sign after you enter the three digits or it won't work.
[59:47.160 --> 59:50.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it may not wind up billing it to somebody else.
[59:50.760 --> 59:57.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: It may bill it to you, but, uh, if you're not allowed access to, uh, uh, to one plus dialing, it's still kind of an interesting thing.
[59:57.580 --> 59:59.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Listen, we're out of time, unfortunately.
[01:00:00.020 --> 01:00:01.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sorry to all those people we didn't get to.
[01:00:01.300 --> 01:00:03.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: We certainly had a lot of, uh, people out there tonight.
[01:00:04.300 --> 01:00:07.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, we'll be back again next week, live on the radio.
[01:00:08.260 --> 01:00:13.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Computer show is, uh, up next and, uh, we'll talk to you then.
[01:00:14.240 --> 01:00:14.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[01:00:14.700 --> 01:00:16.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm being stared at by, by strange people here.
[01:00:16.620 --> 01:00:20.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Off the hook, Emmanuel Goldstein, I'll be, uh, back again next week.
[01:00:21.260 --> 01:00:23.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, keep writing in if you have questions.
[01:00:23.560 --> 01:00:25.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, we'll try our best to answer them.
[01:00:26.560 --> 01:00:26.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good night.