...programming that you've been hearing here tonight, and the programming that will continue
to come your way here on WBAI in New York, listener-supported radio.
Well, we've got a lot to go over tonight.
Originally, we weren't going to be on this week, but because the hearings were not, did
not take place because of Yom Kippur, we have some programming for you tonight, and also
because of what happened yesterday throughout the New York metropolitan region, we're going
to be talking about that in quite some detail.
In fact, we'll be getting some response from people out there to see how it affected them.
Of course, I'm referring to the telephone outage, the latest telephone outage, and it's something
that seems to be occurring with quite an increase in occurrence, let's just put it that way.
Is this something that we'll be seeing a lot of in the future, and if so, just how can
we plan our lives around that?
Let's take a look at how one particular newspaper covered the story, a hang-up on air traffic.
Of course, the story really became a story when the airplanes stopped taking off and stopped
landing in New York. Three major airports closed down, LaGuardia, Kennedy, and Newark because
of a blown fuse, a power failure of some sort. They still don't know what exactly went wrong
in a building in downtown Manhattan. How could one simple failure cause so much of an inconvenience
to so many? What kind of planning was there? What kind of incompetence was there? And how
much faith are we putting control of our lives into? What are we doing here? What are we giving
away? What kind of freedoms are we giving away by saying, okay, the computer will take care
of everything? Let's take a look at the story, and then we'll hear exactly what happened from
a first-hand account, and we'll also be speaking to somebody from the mayor's office. In the
meantime, though, keep those calls coming in because information like this does not come
cheap. We need to be able to pay our bills to be able to keep you supplied with information
like this, and I'm sure that everybody will benefit from the information we're going to bring
you in the next hour and throughout the night. So please give a call to 212-279-3400. I should
point out at this juncture that for a pledge of $65, you can get a subscription to 2600 magazine.
That's the Hacker Quarterly, and by reading 2600, you can learn how to get around the phone company,
how to get around all these big inconveniences that seem to be touching us in
many different ways. You can become a part of an elite group, which really should not be an elite
group. It should be something that everybody knows. Everybody should know how to bypass AT&T
when their computers go down or when they just don't feel like completing your call or anything
like that. You should know when you are being ripped off and when you're getting a good deal,
and by reading 2600, you'll get a taste of that anyway. You'll certainly know more than the
average person, and that's kind of what we try to do on this program. So for a pledge of $65 to
279-3400, you will receive that. You'll also receive the WBAI folio each and every month, but most
importantly, you'll be doing your part to keep this station going. And by keeping this station
going, you'll be privy to a lot of things that just are not heard anyplace else. I was listening
to Michio before saying how there is not a WBAI in every city or even in most cities. Wherever I've been,
there has not been a WBAI except for some of the places that have Pacifica stations throughout this
country, even in Europe, it's hard to find alternative views these days. So you got to support something
like this when it comes along. And we've been here since the early 60s, and we'd like to stay here well
beyond the 21st century. 279-3400, we have no calls on the line right now, so we want to
increase that just a little bit, get a few more people in on this station. If you've never pledged
before, this is a great time to pledge because we're looking for new contributors. If you've benefited
from knowledge that you've received on this radio station, please give us a call. 212-279-3400. We do
take Visa and MasterCard to make things a bit easier for you. But most importantly, besides taking
your money, we give you something back, something immediate, something educational, beneficial to one
and all. And you don't have to agree with everything that you hear on WBAI. God knows I don't, and I'm sure
most people who do shows here don't agree with everything they hear. And that's part of being
human. That's part of what democracy, I guess, is supposed to be all about. But you don't hear that
in very many places. So we need to keep that going here on WBAI. We do not have sponsors. We cannot have
sponsors because the moment we get sponsors, we lose that special objectivity. And I'm going to give
you a good example of that with this AT&T story. Okay, we've got one call on the line. Let's make that
three calls. And we can continue with the AT&T outage, the other side of the AT&T outage
and how it affected you. We'll be taking some phone calls a little bit later on to see how you all
survived the crisis. 279-3400. A pledge of $65 gets you $2,600 magazine for an entire year, as well as
the WBAI folio and the knowledge that you're helping out New York's alternative radio station.
Michio, perhaps you could tell us what's coming up in the next couple of hours for people that want
to stay tuned to their radio. Okay, fine. Once again, this is Michio Kaku. And at 8 o'clock,
I helped to... Well, actually, from 7 o'clock, we kicked off this three-hour special that's going
to go on until around 11 o'clock in the evening. At 8 o'clock, we had exploration. At 9 o'clock now,
Emanuel Goldstein will be talking about computer technology and the whole question of the AT&T
breakdown that just took place. And then at 10 o'clock, we'll be talking about PeaceNet,
how you can get wired to the electronic revolution through BAI. If you were to pledge, for example,
$65 by calling 212-279-3400 will immediately get you set up with PeaceNet. So once again, you're
listening to a three-hour special concerning the question of science, technology, war, peace,
and the environment. And also, I'd like to say on the question of these gigantic computer glitches,
how dependent we are on technology in general that can wreak enormous havoc. Take a look at Three Mile
Island. Take a look at Chernobyl and the Soviet Union. Both incidences caused by extremely small
human error or manufacturing defects. And we are so dependent upon this technology that could,
like a Frankenstein monster, turn against us very quickly. And that's why we have to be empowered.
And that's what this radio station is all about, empowerment. Knowledge is empowerment. And if you
listen to Emanuel Goldstein talk about the computer glitch, you realize that we too can be empowered,
not just by passively sitting back, but by actively participating in this radio station by calling
212-279-3400. We just want two more calls on this. We don't want as many calls as we can get, but
for now, we'd be happy to see the phone light up two more times. 212-279-3400. And I know at this time
every week, when we ask for phone calls, people that need advice for technological issues, people that want
to know if the phone company is cheating them and things like that, the phones always light up
instantly. So please think of us now that we're asking for your help. Pledge what you can afford.
Pledge whatever you can to help us get by, because we cannot do it without your help. And that is a fact.
And I don't want to say it's a sad fact, because if we did not get the help of our listeners, we'd be
getting the help of some huge corporation like AT&T. And look where that gets you. 212-279-3400. Show your
support for WBAI for alternative knowledge that can really benefit you in situations like this.
Speaking of incompetence, AT&T tonight is blaming the whole thing on three employees. They say that three
employees ignored alarms for six hours. So I don't quite know how they how they're running things
down there. But that is the story tonight. Three employees of AT&T are being blamed for the outage
because they ignored alarms that were going off for six hours. I don't know how you can ignore an
alarm for six hours unless perhaps it doesn't make any noise or show any lights or anything like that.
I don't know. We're going to try to find out more about that. 212-279-3400. Let's see those phones
light up. Here's a bit of information that appeared in today's Newsday. And this I think
you'll find kind of humorous as well as a lot of other things. AT&T power failure cuts air traffic
control signals is the sub headline. A power supply problem at an AT&T switching center in lower
Manhattan disrupted air traffic control communications yesterday, bringing the area's three major airports
and Long Island MacArthur Airport to a virtual standstill. The breakdown also crippled AT&T long
distance service in the city and on Long Island. The chaos began at about 4.50 p.m. when a major switch
at AT&T's Thompson Street Center was affected by still an undetermined power supply problem. They still
don't really know what caused it in the first place. Laura Abbott, an AT&T spokeswoman, said the switch
also carries air control voice and data communications for the Federal Aviation Administration.
FAA spokeswoman Diane Spitaleri said the switch failure cut off communications between New York's
air traffic control centers and the main centers in Boston and Washington. And it wasn't until 9 p.m.
when flights began arriving again on a very limited basis. According to a spokesperson for Long Island
MacArthur Airport, they had six to eight airplanes grounded and 400 to 600 people milling around in
the terminal. That's not one of the major airports. That's just a little tiny one, the way a bit. And
what's particularly interesting there is that at MacArthur Airport, the departure and arrival screens
for U.S. air showed most of the flights were on time. That's right. Most of the flights were on time.
Do you think that really means that they were on time? No, it doesn't mean that. Their computers were
down and it wasn't possible to correct the screens. So here you had an AT&T failure and you had a
computer failure on top of that, which made it seem like everything was okay. By 10 30 p.m., about 70
people waiting for flights were yawning, walking wearily around or sitting and waiting and cussing and
swearing, no doubt. As of 11 p.m., there was still no service out of MacArthur. Airlines were telling
passengers at service would resume in the morning. And people were put up in hotels and shuttled
around to various cities they didn't want to be in. And everybody had a miserable time. And it was
just because of a failure in a switch someplace downtown in Manhattan. The fact that the AT&T is
blaming three workers now sounds a lot like the Exxon Valdez crisis, where the Exxon blames it all on
one sea captain. And the question is, well, why did Exxon load all this responsibility on the sea
captain without checks and balances? And the same thing, why did AT&T give these workers the capability
of perhaps even intentionally sabotaging a system like that? Systems have to be built with backups
and preventive systems, whereby not just unintentionally, but an intentional saboteur
can wreak havoc. And here we have a situation where AT&T is blaming essentially its own managerial
process by which it inspects and by which it backs up these systems. And again, they do it because
it's profit. They got to squeeze as much money as they can out of these cables and these programmings
and whatever. And they get the bottom dollar. You essentially get bottom dollar electronics.
That's a very good point. And that's exactly what they do. In fact, the spokesperson for the FCC
Common Carrier Bureau recently suggested to people that were concerned about the fact that there was
no backup, and this was in light of all the cable cuts and mysterious outages that were happening over
the summer, he said, if you want backups, go out and buy a backup system of your own. If you really need
that kind of dependability, you should get it yourself. In other words, the phone company can no longer
take responsibility for providing reliable service. And this is somebody from the FCC saying this, so you can
imagine what they say over at AT&T. I would hope that this kind of service, quote unquote, is rewarded
heavily by various customers of AT&T as far as who they choose in the future and how they hook up
their businesses and homes and things like that. Now, a very interesting point, something that I think we
should not take lightly here at WBAI is something that I think our listeners should pay strict
attention to. I was wandering around the television dial last night looking for stories about this,
because this is a very interesting story, something that strikes right at my heart.
And every station had something. I went to NBC News. They had a story, CBS, ABC, Fox, Channel 11.
Everybody was doing something. I turned to the McNeil-Lair Report, and they had a very full
in-depth news hour as usual. But for some reason, for some reason, they completely ignored the story
of AT&T, causing all this havoc. And I was wondering, how could they possibly miss a story
this big? It's not like McNeil-Lair to miss a story like this. And I was thinking about this as the
closing credits were rolling on the screen. And then at the very end, it said this program was made
possible by AT&T. Well, that sort of struck me the wrong way. And it tells you what can happen
when a corporation is running a program, which is, in effect, what is happening there. Now, of course,
we can't say for sure that's why that story didn't air, but it could have been a very good reason why
they didn't emphasize it, you see. So when you have corporations and sponsors paying you money to put
on your programs and to keep your station on the air, you may very well impose self-censorship on
yourself. And that's the worst kind of censorship of all. We never want to have to resort to that
here at BAI. We want to be able to bring you stories, and we don't care who we get upset by
bringing you those stories. We want to bring it to you in our particular way, and we want to get your
feedback on it. That's why we need you to pick up your phone now. Don't wait. 212-279-3400. Show your
support for non-commercial radio for independent thought. And we promise you we will keep these
stories coming your way, and we will not be biased or influenced by anybody that's allegedly
supporting us. 212-279-3400. Pledge what you can afford. For $65, you'll get $2,600 for a year,
and you'll learn all about the phone companies and computers and hackers and all kinds of neat
things like that. Right. And speaking of self-interest, take a look at NBC television in the Gulf War.
NBC television, of course, is owned by General Electric, which is one of the largest manufacturers
of smart bombs in the world. And it's no accident that the national media was touting the efficiency
of these smart bombs that we now know was basically a fake. A fake. 93% of the bombs dropped during the
war. We now know were dumb bombs. Only 7% of the bombs dropped during the war were the so-called
smart bombs. And essentially, the whole media campaign was a lie from the start to the beginning
that the bulk of the damage done on civilians was not done by super accurate video smart
Nintendo smart bombs. Or for that matter, take a look at public television. I like public television.
A lot of the science programming is quite good. But take a look at NOVA. You would expect NOVA to have
had a major program on Three Mile Island right after the accident. It was just the kind of story
that NOVA would do. But how come it took NOVA something like almost a decade before finally
getting into Three Mile Island? And it's no accident that people call public television
petrochemical broadcasting. Everything is brought to you by Exxon and mobile and the petrochemical
industry on public television. Public television is a natural outlet by which you might get a little
bit of criticism of the petrochemical industry. But oh no, not with the kind of funding that you got.
Finally, after about eight years or so, NOVA did do a special on Three Mile Island. And I asked the
producer, I was on that program myself, I asked the producer, was there pressure on these producers
not to do a story on nuclear power? Because, of course, who owns nuclear power? A lot of the uranium
mines in this country are owned by the petrochemical industry, Exxon Nuclear, Gulf Atomic. And he
said, yes, indeed it is true. The petrochemical industry does, in fact, have this invisible hand
over the programming at NOVA to make sure that NOVA does not stick its nose where it doesn't belong,
i.e. muckraking what happens with the petrochemical industry.
212-279-3400. We've got two calls on the line. Let's make that four calls and we'll be in good
shape for the programming ahead of us. Whether it's AT&T, Mobile, Exxon, or any of those huge
corporations that are running the show, so to say, we're not going to have that happen here.
We're not going to allow that to happen here. Yeah, we could solve a lot of our problems probably
by doing this, but I think we'd be opening ourselves up to a lot more problems. We'd be
taking a lot of programs off the air because they would be offending too many people in powerful
positions. And that's not what we're all about here. We want to be able to reach out and offend people
in high places because they deserve to be offended because there are stories that need to be told
and stories that are not being told anyplace else. 212-279-3400. Show your support for this kind of radio,
the kind of radio that does not exist in many parts of the country and certainly does not exist
in other parts of this dial in this city. So please make that phone ring and make it a success
so we can continue to bring this to you 52 weeks a year. 212-279-3400. Let's keep those phones
ringing. We want to thank Gary from Brooklyn, Robert from New York, Eddie from Brooklyn,
Ari, I believe is how you pronounce it, from Brooklyn, Christopher from Newark, New Jersey,
Mark from Garfield, New Jersey, and Rita from Manhattan for their generous support in keeping WBAI going.
Please join these people. Help us out. Become part of the WBAI family. No matter what you pledge,
however big, however small, you will get the WBAI folio delivered to your door or post office box or
wherever you want to have us deliver it. You'll get that for a year. And if you choose to pledge $65,
you'll get the 2600 magazine for a year. There's a lot of other things that you can get too. You can ask
our friendly tally people. They'll be more than happy to help you out as far as that kind of thing
goes. 212-279-3400. We want to move now to an actual presentation of what happened yesterday when
the phones went out. What I did was I put together a little piece where we were trying, trying and
trying to make a telephone call. And this is the kind of thing that you would have heard had you
been trying to do this. And we're also going to show you how it's possible to not let this affect
you if you so choose. You'll hear us routing calls through other phone companies, MCI, Sprint, ITT.
But you also hear how hard it is to get an operator, how this affected New York telephone. And you also
hear a fair bit of disinformation that was being spread around too. So this piece runs for about
10 minutes. And you'll hear just about everything that was going on yesterday in kind of a first-hand
view. Each piece is date-time stamped because it was recorded on an answering machine. So it provides
kind of a historical reference there. While this is playing, we really would like to see those phones
ring, 212-279-3400. And when we come back, we'll be taking a couple of phone calls at 212-279-3407.
How did the AT&T outage affect you? And how can we not let it affect other people in the future?
We will attempt to call a number using AT&T. This is a number in California from New York.
I think we
Let's go.
Now we're going to try using a different company, using the carrier access code for MCI, the same phone number.
Okay.
We also had some difficulty there.
The circuit's tied up.
Now we're going to try Sprint.
That's the carrier access code for Sprint, and now we're going to call the same number.
Okay, that got through.
Tuesday, 6.56 p.m.
Now we're going to try ITT.
That's the carrier access code for ITT, actually.
It's called Metromedia now.
And now we're trying the same number.
Now we're trying the same number.
That got right through.
Tuesday, 6.57 p.m.
Let's give MCI one more try.
We're trying MCI again with their carrier access code.
and calling a number in California.
Alright, that got through too.
Okay, 6.57 p.m.
Let's give AT&T one more try.
Let's give AT&T one more try.
It's a very quiet connection.
No good.
Tuesday, 6.58 p.m.
Alright, now we're going to try dialing an AT&T operator direct by dialing 00.
Since this phone is preset to AT&T.
Dialing 00 will connect me to the AT&T operator.
Let's see what happens.
Alright, that's the local central office.
Saying all circuits are busy.
Let's try again.
Tuesday, 7.09 p.m.
This phone will try by putting the carrier access code.
Putting the carrier access code first and having a zero after that.
See if that works.
Same result.
Central office is overwhelmed.
Tuesday, 7.10 p.m.
What we're going to try now is calling AT&T's 800 number.
If we can find out what's going on from them.
We don't appear to be getting a connection.
Usually by this time you're talking to a cheerful AT&T representative, but I hear only silence.
That two will not go through.
Tuesday, 7.11 p.m.
Tuesday, 7.11 p.m.
One last resort is to go through the local operator.
Now the local operator can connect us to AT&T.
But no other phone company.
Only AT&T.
Let's see if we can get through.
We're sorry.
Due to heavy calling, the operator will be delayed in assisting you.
If your call is urgent, stay on the line and an operator will answer as soon as possible.
Even the local company is overwhelmed.
All of this because of one power failure in one building.
Can you have a telephone with Captain help you?
Yes.
Hi.
I was wondering if you could connect me to AT&T.
All right.
That's all right.
One moment for an operator who can assist you.
Thank you.
We're sorry.
All circuits are busy now.
Will you please try your call again later.
We're sorry.
All circuits are busy now.
Will you please try your call again later.
Doesn't look like we're going to get any one.
And it hung up on us.
Okay.
One moment for an operator who can assist you.
One moment for an operator who can assist you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
we're sorry all circuits are busy now will you please try your call again later
we're sorry all circuits are busy now will you please try your call again later
doesn't look like we're going to get anyone and it hung up on us
now the final uh try here we're going to talk to another new york telephone operator
see if we can get an explanation from their point of view as to what's going on
of course this could take some time since they're clogged as well
we're sorry due to heavy calling the operator will be delayed in assisting you
if your call is urgent stay on the line and an operator will answer as soon as possible
not sure what that other recording was going to say
the answer for mr len yes hi i was wondering if you could help me i just tried getting connected to
at t and t and i got a recording all right so right now um we're experience at t and t and sprints
are experiencing uh technical difficulties uh they are aware of the problem and they are working on
it uh-huh sprint two yes okay um now it's not possible to connect with any other phone company
but at t and t for new york telephone you to mci or metro media uh you can okay can i have metro media
then i'm not feeling too good tonight i'll tell you that uh can i have metro media then oh yeah you
want me to connect you to metro media yeah thank you hold on i'm going to connect you now hold on thank
you very much uh-huh well that doesn't sound like a dial tone uh well i guess you're not there anymore
but i want to thank you anyway uh i've never known an operator to connect me to another phone company
we'll see if i can do that again tuesday 7 16 p.m
let's give that another try i've never known an operator to connect to any other phone company but
at t and t and i've also uh this is the first i've heard that that sprint is also effective we'll see
if that it's actually true we're sorry due to heavy calling the operator will be delayed in assisting you
if your call is urgent stay on the line and an operator will answer as soon as possible
actually it's not heavy calling so much as it's heavy failure
you're a telephone great yes hi i was hoping you could help me i just talked to an operator who
said that they were able to connect me to phone companies other than at t is that true um metro
media metro media and can you connect mci uh from what i understand they're they're uh they're down
also or their circuits are out of order i can try them for you all right are you able to tell me how
to make other phone calls without using at t um well if you want to use metro media okay well you can
try mci directly uh what you do is you dial one zero two two two plus the area code and number
if you want to use metro media directly dial one zero zero one one plus the area code and number
okay and what if i wanted to use sprint sprint is down
sprint is down completely yes okay can you try hooking me up to uh which ones can you hook me up
to metro media metro media okay if you could try that i'd appreciate it one moment for an operator who
can assist you thank you
if this works this is india first
uh
operative amount is uh hello metro media operator this vision may help you uh yes is this metro media yes
um i'm just curious how i would place a call with this particular company the operator hooked me
up to you um would do you accept calling cards we accept calling card yes so if i was to use my
at t calling card here it would work yeah most of the cards go through sir i'm sorry most of at t
cards go through okay now there's a problem with the long distance network but that's not affecting this
company at all uh no okay so all your calls are going through yeah okay i was just checking thank you for
your help okay thank you for calling me to media okay bye bye
well it was a bit of fun on a tuesday wasn't it to uh attempt to make a phone call
how many of you were able to do that successfully i'd like to know i'd like to know how many of you have
learned from what we have been preaching here week after week how many of you have uh actually been able to
route things around the problems as they occur no problem i mean yeah it sounded it sounded like i
was having significant uh problems but that was because i was trying to go through at t um it's very
simple to route things uh through other companies and avoid whatever is uh is going on at the moment
but i don't know if uh if you picked up on this but uh there's a lot of misinformation there
the guy two operators said that sprint was down sprint was never down sprint never had any problem
whatsoever and uh i heard it from at least three different operators there was another operator
earlier on in the day that told me the same thing that sprint was was completely down and one of those
operators said mci was down as well uh both of which were fallacies mci we did have a circuit busy
sound at one point but they were never down because they uh they weren't affected by an at&t power
failure it's uh it's common sense that that would be the case why they were spreading that information
i do not know uh another very interesting thing was the fact that they connected uh connected me to
another long distance company something that they never did prior to that a new york telephone
operator actually connecting me to a company other than at&t today they will not do it i asked them
today and they said uh sorry we cannot we can only connect you to at&t so at&t still has that unfair
advantage and we have to ask ourselves why why does at&t still have an unfair advantage they certainly
proven they don't deserve it so um that's something that uh we'll be continuing to ask questions about
we'd like to hear from you both uh pledge wise at 212-279-3400 and also we want to hear from
some of the listeners now uh to find out how you did during this latest crisis and the number to
call to be on the air is 212-279-3407 yes 3407 give us a call at that number and uh and we'll compare
stories and things like that but we really need to see uh the telephone start ringing as far as uh as
pledges 212-279-3400 for a 65 pledge you need never worry about uh being caught short in the
long distance department again because you'll get a free year of 2600 magazine the hacker quarterly
uh the magazine that is not afraid to call a spade a spade and to uh uh talk about whatever is
happening with the bell operating companies long distance companies and things like that yeah we've
got them all mad at us every every phone company in the world is is angry at 2600 because we always
uncover things that uh they'd rather not talk about and we're going to continue doing that it's the
kind of thing that uh freedom of the press is all about and sort of what uh bai is all about too is
freedom of speech 212-279-3400 show your support for wbai pledge 65 and receive that plus the program
guide for a year um pledge whatever you can to get the program guide uh or any other amount we have
all kinds of uh of items that uh we'd like to uh to send to you as part of our way of saying thanks
and again the number to call to uh to trade some stories or tell us uh what happened to you during
the great at and t outage of uh tuesday or whatever date it was yesterday uh that number is 212-279-3407
also if you have any questions concerning uh telephone dialing and and the best ways to get
around things like this let me give you a couple of bits of information that you really should write
down because they're important bits of information uh carrier access codes okay it's important that you
know how to route phone calls in case this happens again it's uh sad that the faa does not have a way
to do this it's something that i find shocking uh at and t of course is 10288 that's really the only
one that seems to get advertised and it's really the one that you probably need the least uh 10222
is mci and the way these work you simply dial them in front of the area code and number that you're
calling for instance if you're calling um a number in california you want to use mci you would call
10222 add the area code then add the number your call will go through mci and not any other company
uh 10333 is sprint and there's two for metro media uh which used to be known as itt
uh they are 10488 and 1001 there's others too and if you know of others please uh tell us what they
are because uh it's information that should be passed around freely okay we're going to take uh a couple
of phone calls at 212-279-3407 and we're also going to be speaking with uh the assistant commissioner for
telecommunications policy that's in the new york city department of telecommunications and energy
the uh the mayor's office there uh so please uh give us a call we'll be going to that interview in
just a moment good evening hi is this uh 99.5 uh yes you're on the air hi um yeah i was just calling
to say that a couple years ago i tried to um get some information from the different companies to try to
find out which was the best you know price wise and all that and interestingly enough i had called
sprint and itt and all the others when i got to att they said to me at t they said oh we see that you've
called all the other places already so they had a listing of everybody that that i had called really
yeah i thought that was a little freaky uh now who who were they again at t they had a listing of uh
they they had known that i had just gotten off the phone with sprint and it it and t and mci well
how did you call them did you use an 800 number yeah that's awfully strange that they would know that
yeah i thought so that made me say absolutely no to them right away yeah i can't imagine how they would
think otherwise but i'm very interested in how that uh that could be done uh it's possible their
their at and uh their 800 numbers were at and t owned but still i don't see how they would be able
to watch your line and tell what it was you dialed so uh literally within within minutes that i called
them and they said well we see and they gave me the list of all that all the places that i had called
and these were 800 numbers yeah all right well i've never heard of such a thing like that but i
certainly don't discount it because uh anything is possible in uh in today's technology yeah okay just
wanted to fill you in thanks for calling bye-bye uh andrew phillips is here hi emmanuel how you doing
all right how are we doing well i want to i want to just uh jump in here and encourage uh listeners to
uh off the hook uh to uh to get on the hook here and uh otherwise uh you know we'll get the hook uh
two seven nine three four hundred is the number we we uh you know this is a chance for you people who
who tune in regularly this time every week uh and emmanuel goldstein's been here for six months
or so maybe more now but you know getting more regular it's great really interesting show important
program about information it is information unusual program definitely don't get a show like this
anywhere else uh this is a unique radio program and i know that you have a particularly um
interesting and interested group of listeners and we're very proud at wbi of this new uh wednesday
lineup with michio and yourself emmanuel and the personal computer show they they won't be here
this week they'll be here back next week for a two-hour special we want you out there to show us that
you think this is a good lineup too that this is important information and that you're going to give
us some support because we need some help here uh we want to know that you particularly new members
people who have never joined wbai uh that you support and understand that non-commercial free radio
the kind of thing that emmanuel talked about before about at&t and and and general electrics
that we don't have to worry about here we only have to worry three times a year about you who are
listening right now going over to your telephones and dialing us at 2793400 and becoming members very
briefly fifty dollars is the normal subscription rate though tonight you can get 2600 emmanuel's publication
for 65 pledge uh you can also get a subscription to peace net and we're going to talk much more about
that in about 10 or 15 minutes with the man who works there who certainly is mr peace net proud
head of howard fredericks over there in california uh and you can get a subscription to that also but
the most important thing is that you join wbai you become a member a listener subscriber a supporter you
become part of this radio station three calls on the line interactive two three calls we got enough
room for another four emmanuel 2793400 you're out there every wednesday come on folks this is your
chance this is your opportunity give us a call 212 2793400 never is it more important when when things
start going wrong that you uh that you realize the knowledge that we give you here at wbai is is is
useful what we've been uh talking about and and trying to spread over the past few months now is
something that you can actually use because uh technology is sometimes falls apart around us
and when that happens it's important that you not fall apart with it like the airlines like the
three major new york city airports closing down that kind of thing should not happen that kind of
thing would not have happened had they known as much as you probably know by listening and that's why
it's important to uh to show your support because by showing your support you're enabling us to continue
doing this into the future 212 2793400 nor the radio station is going to do it one of the things
that i like about uh this particular lineup on wednesday nights and i hope the bai that we're
able to do more of this quote-unquote into the future radio you you said it and i think on wednesday
nights it's it's one chance that we do get to look into the future we're very good at wbai and on the
left also of looking into the past and analyzing and discussing but sometimes we're not very good at
looking into the future and i think this radio program is one real exception to that i think
an exciting exception this is a unique radio program that actually is about information this
is information this is telephones and you actually how interesting become part of it when you dial us
at 2793400 and you're for a second there every phone line was lit great it should be saying something
that should be this is an important program people know this is important and people know that information
is important people understand that computers are important as exactly as you said last night when
the system went down boy that tells us a lot about what's wrong with our culture and our society and
this radio station in its own low-tech way with high-tech ideas tries to come to terms with some of those
perceptions and some of those social problems that we have and you help by supporting us by dialing
2793400 and becoming a subscriber a member we have two open lines 212-279-3400 help keep bai going
strong uh we really need to hear from you and and and help you see see it's not just us you help
yourself we are this is a symbiotic relationship here we're in this together and you you people who
listen to this show know more about symbiotics probably than most of us you understand how that
works 2793400 we're in this together we can be nothing without you this is communication shannon
weaver model message receive all the rest of it i don't know the model too well but it is about it
we are receiving your message you're receiving our message we're creating something here it's an
important institution and the link is the telephone number 2793400 that's you taking the action
that's the that's the uh that's the that's the lifeblood of the station 2793400 for you listeners
in new jersey and connecticut that might be having trouble getting through don't use at&t use uh use
mci use sprint preface your call with 10222 or 10333 or 10488 or whatever you need to uh to preface it
with uh if the carrier of your choice is not working at the moment there's always a way to get through you
know in the san francisco earthquake um everybody was saying oh it was impossible to get through but we had no
trouble because we used alternative phone companies and we spread knowledge about that on this program
and through the magazine as well that's great so you never have to be uh out of touch that see this
is very important there's a wonderful metaphor here and that's what wbai bai is it is an alternative
it is another way it's a very resilient uh system this is this radio station it's a very resilient
system it's very hard to stop and particularly because we're so decentralized fifty dollars membership
we have about eighteen thousand subscribers we'd like to have double that no i think we can have
double that but we've got more than we had uh like two years ago we are growing the way we grow is by
new members coming on board we're we're a sustainable environment uh if we if we have the diversity of
membership if we have the outreach and if you can help us if you listen to this program if you listen to
this station then you can become a member if you can't afford fifty bucks senior citizen a student
twenty five bucks is fine you get the program guide for twelve months it's for sixty five dollars you
get twenty six hundred which is a unique um international publication goes around the world
and our summer issue has just come out it's kind of late i know but it's just come out and if you uh
subscribe for sixty five dollar pledge uh you will learn within the next few weeks exactly how credit
card strips work you'll know exactly what those little bits of information on everyone's credit card
are and how they are used and just exactly what they mean you'll also be uh finding out all kinds
of things about the phone companies uh certain uh internal documents that are passed along to us
uh concerning class uh services which is uh caller id and things like that everybody's interested in
caller id now you can find out the phone company's angle what it is they hope to get out of it because
we've gotten the documents and we've we've written them up in an article and that's coming out in the
next twenty six hundred uh and that will be yours for a pledge of sixty five dollars you'll get that
for a year and uh you'll be opened up to a whole new world i mean you think you think this show is
something once you really get into the culture uh you find yourself completely transformed and and you
really become into it a lot of us are taught that technology is not for us it's something that we cannot
understand that's nonsense everybody is capable of understanding uh simple things about technology
i don't care how old you are or where you're from it's uh it's something that should not be kept from
any of us and we want people to have hands-on access we want people to know what happens if you press
this button and why and all kinds of things like that it's it's it's important for people to ask
questions that's what we encourage you to do here at wbai and that's what we encourage you to do in this
particular program and hopefully we provide you with lots of answers if i'm not
mistaken emmanuel we've made uh this evening since we started which must include me show
about thirteen hundred and eighty bucks now that's not bad but it's not great i think we should be
able to hit two thousand dollars by the end of this show which is pretty soon but that takes a couple
of you perhaps with a little bit more money maybe five hundred dollars or two hundred and fifty dollars
or a hundred and fifty dollars or a hundred dollars some of you that can afford a little bit more
money we know that some of you can for you to do a little bit more because there are so many
people now so many of us now that that simply can't afford the fifty bucks i mean these are
rough times this is a time of crisis not only financially but uh as far as freedom of speech
a lot of things are happening and they're happening kind of a little bit too quickly for a lot of us to
deal with uh so it's hitting us very hard and uh things could change things really could change
we're nearly sixteen hundred dollars we just need another four hundred dollars emmanuel and we've
hit two thousand dollars we should be able to do that very very quickly that's about eight what is
that eight um no it's more than that uh what is it six it's about eight subscribers at uh fifty
bucks don't ask me to do arithmetic i was never good at that okay ten subscribers and i think we can
hit two thousand dollars there must be ten people out there listening right now two seven nine three
four hundred that can afford to subscribe do want to get hold of twenty six hundred or the or the
peace net uh the peace net subscription uh can afford the fifty or the sixty five or the two hundred
dollar amount that you are prepared to offer us at ten o'clock on this wednesday evening two
seven nine three four hundred please area code we have four calls on the line all we need is
another six and we uh another three is that how many well to make it seven to make it seven right
and fill up the board i told you arithmetic's not my subject to fill up the board because we've got
seven lines in we have some great volunteers back there we've even got some great cake and donuts
from the cupcake cupcake cafe thank you cupcake that's great look we're at 1665 279 3400 we can do this
really quickly folks go to your phones take the action be part of the solution be radioactive 279 3400
but don't glow in the dark and you know i i think everybody in this room has done it at some point called
in and made a pledge you don't feel drained afterwards you feel great afterwards you feel like you've
really become a part of something and we all feel that way here at wbai uh when we do our bit whatever
it is when we when we talk about issues that we know something about when we uh communicate with
people you'll feel that same rush that same rush of energy that uh that makes you feel like you really
matter and you do matter every individual person out there counts it's not like you know dr gene scott
or the ptl club or something like that uh not that i want to criticize those people i'm sure they're
very nice but the point is they work in massive scales you know if every person you know doesn't
really mean that much by themselves and they get billions and billions of dollars somehow
but here at wbai we struggle for each and every pledge and each and every pledge does matter that's
why we we we cherish seeing the phones ringing and and right now i can tell you that there's two open
lines seeing those lines ring will mean a great deal to me will mean a great deal to everybody else
down in italian as well this is he is a great man sitting opposite me emmanuel ghost then i love
this guy he's good this guy does good work this is good radio and when this is your unique radio
program i don't think maybe i don't know maybe negative land maybe okay maybe out in in in san
francisco at a sister station there's a show like this i don't know but the kind of work that this
guy does that you do is important work i mean this is great stuff and i i think this those negative
land guys they're too bizarre for even me yeah but i i know you like their work but uh but uh i love
i like what this show is about i think this is i think this is the way of the future for a lot of
radio as a matter of fact the kind of stuff that you use the technology we are the technology we are
part of it and i think many of our listeners understand that how important that is this is like
this is cutting edge i think in the year 2000 if we're going to really go somewhere in this radio
business uh we gotta stop looking backwards and start looking forwards and and this radio program
is a really good example of that and i think you who are subscribing now i think we're getting a
pretty good response to recognize the tally room now it's been making that noise all throughout but
i didn't think to turn it up until now it's just a tape loop right this is actually live live goings-on
down the hall uh make those phones ring 212-279-3400 don't just make them ring stay on the line when you
did your piece before how did you explain technically how you did that piece before that was extremely
simple all i did was pick up my phone and hit the record button on my answering machine and i just
kept trying different things and the answering machine is nice enough to time date stamp it
between every uh every every recording and then you ran the music through it live behind you
the music i just played a record just now no no great technical uh expertise needed for that kind
of thing but it sounds good it's interesting it creates what comes out in the end yeah that's what
matters that's right that's sort of how technology itself works we've got that you got to come
and do a soundscapes program one night i should shouldn't i yes investigations in uh what is it
called sound explorations in radio sound and music i'd like to yeah but i can only do that if this
radio station is here that's true and this radio station cannot stay here without support from our
listeners and we only uh we only ask for your support every now and then because we want to be able to
continue bringing you programs uninterrupted and uh without all this uh appealing for funds but it is
necessary it's not something that we uh we get great joy out of out of doing but it is necessary
we have to do it if we do not do it the station will not exist 279 3400 a manual also works at
another radio station yeah in fact the pacifica affiliate out in long island w usb it's funny
because um last night uh or yesterday evening we first realized that something was wrong as we were
trying to dial into pacifica and pick up the news pick up the news and fortunately i'm able to tell
like right away that it was at and t that had a problem and not the local phone not the telephone
not the instrument itself it's good to have that knowledge to know where something is going wrong
well i could tell that the phone was was switching it was getting out of the central office and it was
getting to new york city and then it was hanging it just wasn't making it down to washington dc
uh now that knowledge pacifica news bureau is right that's what we were trying to call that knowledge
was able to uh it was enough to tell me that we should reroute the call through another phone
company amci or something like that and we were able to do that and get through in about 30 seconds
so you got the news on instead of just trying over and over and over again like most people would do
uh so there's always alternatives technology has been set up in a way so that you can always get
around something but uh you have to know how to do it or it's really no good do you ever read
sol uric's book richard a no i haven't it's a great book i've got i must get it give you a copy of
radio people never have time to read things it's true most of us can't i want to get to the uh
very quick interview that we have with the thank you with the mayor's um department mayor's office
um this is tom dunleavy we spoke to him earlier today uh he's the assistant commissioner for
telecommunications policy in the new york city department of telecommunications and energy you
should see the sign in his door uh and uh basically what that what that huge organization is all about
uh they take care of policy and planning uh that uh impacts virtually anything having to do with
the city of new york uh communications wise and certainly what happened here yesterday has um has
quite a bit to do with that so we're going to hear what he has to say then we're uh we're going to uh
go into uh various other things with peace net and uh we'll be back in just a couple of minutes
with regards to what happened yesterday with uh with at and t what is uh the city's position on that
well essentially we think that uh that these the advances in technology make the entire
telecommunications infrastructure in the city of new york more vulnerable the mayor anticipated this
last year when he created the mayor's task force on telecommunications
network reliability that task force has been working since last september and it can and a key component
of it is the creation of a mutual aid and restoration agreement among service providers so that if
if something a tragedy happened as happened last night telecommunications users would be able to
essentially reroute their traffic through other carriers in order to avoid the kind of service
interruption that many of them experienced last night now that's that's something that uh we find so hard
to understand here why isn't it possible to simply make calls using another company why was it so hard
well you can make calls using another company but i don't think that the general public is necessarily as
well versed in the technology or the operation of telecommunications companies as you are many of the
customers last night who were impacted by the at&t outage could have simply selected mci or sprint or one
of the other long distance carriers by using dial around procedures which is dialing 10
one zero and three digits to designate mci or sprint now as far as the the air traffic controllers
um why weren't they able to reroute something as easily as that well i think that that's through the
through the switch network i think that what happened here is that the air traffic controllers and the
federal aviation administration has as their primary carrier at&t and when that segment of the network
went down there was a major impact the the uh the power failure that at&t experienced at thomas street
last night put out 703 carrier channels and indeed it is my understanding and i don't have first-hand
knowledge of it but it is my understanding that some of the air traffic controllers did indeed
communicate with other traffic control centers
that um as technology becomes more advanced it becomes more vulnerable it seems like kind of an
oxymoron it sounds like an oxymoron except that vulnerability comes in the form of uh concentration
of facilities whereas in past years telephone communications was carried on copper pairs today
it is carried on fiber optics and you get in a in a cable perhaps with the diameter of your thumb you get
uh you get a hundred thousand voice paths where in the where in the past a cable with an eight or nine
inch diameter would have nine thousand path and similarly when you have the breakup of the regional bell
operating companies and at&t that took place in 1984 you now had a higher concentration of switching
centers for these inter-exchange carriers so there were fewer centers and uh is there less redundancy
i think that uh there's there's an effort on the part of all carriers to the degree that it is
economically feasible to build redundancy into their network that is a business decision it has to do
with capital investment return on investment and the probability of failure at&t is indeed developing
redundancy in their network through a system called fast star which is due to be they have been working
on it for a while and uh i believe they say that if this had happened after october 15th this
wouldn't have happened pardon me i believe what they said was if this happened after october 15th the results
wouldn't have been uh anywhere near as bad as disastrous i don't think they would have been
uh whether or not that date is october 15th i don't know if they say that i'll take their word for
it do you uh is it the position of the mayor's office that at&t has been doing enough to prevent this
kind of a thing or is no they are not we we believe that as part of the mayor's task force on network
reliability we are trying to develop a compact for mutual aid and restoration there are 14 inter-exchange
carriers serving this area and the city in particular and we think that uh 13 of them have have agreed
uh to participation and uh and at&t has not yet signed on do you think this will be the uh the
final shove that will get them on i sincerely hope that it will be because i think it's in their best
interest as well as the best interest of the city and all the telecommunications users that they be
part of this mutual aid and restoration program one final question uh we had a day where three major
airports were closed a lot of people were inconvenienced who winds up paying for all this
uh i'm not sure i understand i think that uh the people who the ones who pay are those who are
inconvenienced and the carriers particularly at&t in making good their network but at&t does not
assume any kind of liability when this kind of thing happens not to my knowledge i think i don't think
that they have liability i don't know
and uh that was an interview with uh tom dunleavy assistant commissioner for telecommunications
policy the mayor's office here on off the hook on wbai in new york and that pretty much brings us to the
close of our off the hook segment of the program where we talk about technology the failings thereof
and the advantages there too or what have you stay tuned uh we're going to be continuing uh talking
about uh peace net tonight and all kinds of other technological and environmental issues this is wbai
new york we're looking for your support and we would like you to give us a call at 212-279-3400
again for a pledge of 65 dollars you can uh receive 2600 magazine the hacker quarterly and learn all the
things that uh you're not supposed to know about 212-279-3400 show your support for non-commercial radio
show your support for wbai
All in my head, suffering from shelter
Shrapnel in my bed, there's terror on my face
When you pull me so near, I wrap my arms around you
Like a baby full of fear, and a vision of the future
Which suddenly disappeared, you gotta handle me
Ooh, handle me
And you've seen waves, I'm high as a kite
Soaring in a majestical flight
There's joy on my face, and I pull you so near
I wrap my arms around you, you're living without a cure
But when I decide, I'm flying, I'm flying
Handle me
Ooh, handle me
Handle me
And you're tuned to listener-sponsored Radio WBAI 99.5 FM
This is Evelyn Tully-Costa, and we'll be here till 11 o'clock tonight
As part of WBAI's fundraising membership drive here on September 18th, 1991
We've got a full house tonight, folks
If you've been listening since 7.30, you heard Michio Kaku do nuclear war, peace, and science issues
And then at 9 o'clock, Emanuel Goldstein, who just wrapped up, actually still in the studio right now
Talking about the AT&T fiasco yesterday
And I guess our interdependence on technology these days
Now, we promised you that we were going to be talking to Howard Fredericks
Who we're trying to reach on the phone
Luckily, we're in the capable hands of Emanuel Goldstein
And if anyone can reach Howard, Emanuel will
We're going to be talking about PeaceNet tonight
We have offered it all night as a subscription
Some of you may not exactly understand what that means when we say we have subscriptions to PeaceNet
And if you become a member of this radio station, you can also hook in, wire in, log on to PeaceNet as well
And we're going to have Bill Bowles tonight explain to us what PeaceNet is
Why people use computers, why people haven't been using computers
And how the wide world of personal computer intercommunication is now spreading
And I think for the better of all of us and understanding on this planet
Also in the studio with us tonight is Dennis Law, who's an environmental activist
And later on in the program, after some of you have parted with some of your money
Dennis is going to tell us how local grassroots environmentalists can get
Or can use a free global environmental computer network
And I think Bill also knows about that
We're going to be talking about EarthNet as well
So let's see if we have Howard Fredericks on the line
Do we have Howard Fredericks on the line?
No, we don't
Okay, so we're going to go to Bill Bowles first
Billy with us
Hi, Bill
I keep waking up
Talking about the flagricks of the telephone network
Hello?
Yeah, hold on just a minute, Bill
Right, okay
Just to remind everybody that we're also in the place of the personal computer show tonight
So they will be back next week at their regular time
Two hour special
Oh, okay
And I've just been informed from 9 until 11
So for all of those of you who love the personal computer show
You will get two hours full of it next week
All right, Bill, let's get back to the discussion about computers
I thought maybe we'd back up a little bit
And maybe not assume that everyone who's tuning into the show
Even understands why computers are essential
So let's just talk a little bit about the fact that affordable computers
Have been available for quite a while now
Who has been using them?
And why haven't certain sectors of the progressive movement
If we want to call it that
Why haven't they been using computers?
Well, I suppose it's a complex problem
But to try and reduce it to its elements
Computers started life in a very rarefied
And very specialised kind of environment
Basically the military and academia
Universities, you know
And big business and the government
And that was the genesis of the computer
And the computer network
And it was like that
Probably for the first, you know
Decade or so
Or maybe a bit longer of its life
The invention of the
The advent of the personal computer
Changed everything
Because it meant that
What had previously been
Essentially restricted to
Institutions with lots and lots of money
Became available to
People like you and me
And by the time we'd reached
The beginning of the 1980s
The cost of a computer had dropped to
From two or three thousand dollars
To two or three hundred dollars
So there'd been a kind of tenfold reduction in the price
Coupled to this, of course
Was the telephone network
The thing about listening to
A bit of a manual thing
Before I started this
This thing that happened yesterday
It just shows you how
Fragile the whole thing is
But anyway
The other crucial component
That made what is now possible
For all of us to access potentially
Is the telephone network itself
Which of course eventually became
An integral part
Of the computer network
Because computers are used
To control the telephone network
And we use computers
To access other computers
So they all got jumbled up
Into this
What I suppose can be viewed
As a nervous system
Of, you know
Of a complex technical culture
Which is the one
That we've constructed
Okay
So, alright
So what are the elements
So we have the
The telephone network itself
Which is, you know
Cable and satellite
And microwave
And all that stuff
And then the PC
Like the one I'm sitting
In front of now
Basically what you do
Is you take a program
Which turns your PC
From a word processor
Into an electronic communicator
And you send information
Via another device
Called a modem
Which converts the data
Of the computer
Into signals
That can be sent
Down the telephone line
To another computer
Somewhere else
It could be
Around the planet
It could be next door
Whatever
In other words
It could be an individual computer
Just like mine
Or it could be
A computer
Which is connected
To lots of other computers
And so you share
As it were
A kind of
An electronic space
And one of these
Big networked systems
Is PeaceNet
Basically what PeaceNet is
Is it's a computer
A kind of mini computer
Out in California
Which ties into
One aspect
Of the telephone network
The global telephone network
And that's called
A packet switching network
And essentially
What that is
It's a telephone network
That's dedicated
Not to sending
Voice signals
Down it
People talking
To each other
But data
Computer data
And it's
A bit like
A railway network
If you think
Of each
Am I being
Too technical
No no
This is alright
If you think
Of each
Of each packet
Of a truck
On a train
Which has
A destination
A unique destination
And the
Packet switching network
Controls
Where that packet
Of information goes
So for example
When I dial
Into PeaceNet
From my machine
I dial
Into a local
Telephone number
Which gives me
Access to a
Dedicated telephone network
In this case
Called SprintNet
And SprintNet
Has a unique
Address
For what is
The PeaceNet
Computer
In California
It has a number
Actually
It's just a number
And when you
Dial in
And you type
In that number
It routes
It routes
The information
The data
You're sending
From your computer
Across this network
All the way
Over to California
To the computer
Sitting somewhere
In San Francisco
Which receives
The call
And accepts me
And then
I then have
Access to
Various aspects
Of all the information
That are stored
On either
A hard disk
Or a bunch
A load of storage
Devices
Hard disks
Attached to the
Computer in California
Okay Bill
We have Howard
On the line
So actually
Oh great
I'm going to
Hello Howard
Are you with us?
Yeah I sure am
Hey Howard
Welcome Howard
We're now speaking
With Howard Fredericks
Who is the director
Of PeaceNet
In San Francisco
At the moment
Bill has sort of
Been outlining
A little bit
About basics
About computers
And actually
How they interconnect
With each other
This is a computer
Audience by the way
Tonight
But for the benefit
Of those who
May have tuned in
For the first time
And have never heard
About these uses
Of computers
I asked Bill
To explain some of that
I'll throw out
Some questions
Howard perhaps
You can explain
To our listening audience
I asked Bill
The same question
Why has it been
Why have people
In the peace movement
The progressive movement
Been so slow
In certain areas
Perhaps in this country
To respond to the use
Of this technology
Well that's a question
I'd like to have
The answer to myself
Because most of the
Non-governmental organizations
In the world
Are now computerized
There's a huge movement
Of NGOs
That is organizing
NGO net
They're moving
And pushing
In the non-aligned movement
In the United Nations
In UNESCO
The forces for peace
And democracy
Around the world
Are really seizing
The technology
It's an interesting
Dilemma
Because a lot
Of the peace movement
In the United States
Really is
At this point
Not involved
Or not computerized
It's happening
More and more
Though I should say
That we've had
A tremendous spurt
In growth
In the last two months
Of course
The Gulf War
We had so much activity
It leveled off
But since July
We've been going
Through an incredible
Growth stage
Of people seizing
The technology
And making it
Their own
So I don't know
It's a question
Of introducing
New technologies
Into the society
On one sense
And certainly
The right wing
Knew what to do
When you look back
At Richard Vigery's
Mail
Mass mailing techniques
Around 1978
Really brought on
The whole era
Of Reaganism
It's high time
That the forces
For peace
And democracy
Also seize
That technology
Do you have
Any ideas
Either of you
As to why
We can talk
About this briefly
Before we move on
Because I think
In a way
Perhaps some of
Our listeners
Are
Might be suspicious
Of this technology
And I'd like to know
Why is it
That those of us
On the thinking
Progressive side
Would be suspicious
Of this technology
While meanwhile
The right
Has made incredible
Efficient use of it
And we can see
I guess the Gulf War
Was an example
Of the ultimate
And very deadly
Use of technology
Not for peace
And justice
But
And then go on
To say
Why is it
And how is that
Changing
Well let me have
A crack at it
I'm sure Bill's
Got some interesting
Comment on it too
I'm sure he does
I mean the basic
Point is that
Only in the last
Two to four years
Has the peace movement
And also the movements
For environmental
Preservation
Had
They now have
The same tools
That the government
Military
Intelligence
And transnational
Corporations
Have had for more
Than 20 years
Namely the ability
To communicate
Instantly
Reliably
Across large
Stretches of the globe
And the fact
Is also that
These technologies
Have been developed
By and for
The defense department
However
These technologies
Have a decentralizing
Influence
I mean they're
They're not
Inherently
Centralized
So
They've been
Taken up
By people
All over the world
To be used
For their own
Purposes
So I mean
If you're suspicious
Of computer networks
You should also
Be suspicious
Of the phone system
My goodness
If you make
A phone call
Computer networks
Are just as secure
As that
Right
And we had
Just a show
On the hour before
About how insecure
Those systems
Can be sometimes
With a minor breakdown
Affecting I guess
Thousands if not
Millions of people
Well Howard
Let's talk a little
Bit more
But now
I should just
Back up and say
That you're listening
To 99.5 FM
Listener sponsored
WBAI
And this is part
Of our membership
Drive tonight
And tonight's
Special programming
About information
We're offering
A premium
Of PeaceNet
Now I'm not quite
Sure a lot of people
Still don't understand
What it is
So when I say
I'm offering a subscription
Or the station
Is offering a subscription
To PeaceNet
Howard what do
They get
Well they'll get
Four free hours
During the first month
Of user time
And that's
You know
Basically
A $25 value
We are a very
Inexpensive network
We range
From $3
To $10 an hour
And we try to
Keep it way
Below the commercial
Outfits that charge
Up to $96
An hour
But at this point
If you do make
A pledge
To WBAI
We're offering
During this period
Free connect time
During the first month
So you can really
Go hog wild
And try out
The system
And if you don't
Like it
You know
You can unsubscribe
Unsubscribe
And the number
By the way
Is 212-279-3400
That's
212-279-3400
For those of you
Who are interested
In the subscription
To PeaceNet
To get online
To find out
Who else is out there
Talking to each other
As Howard put it
Information systems
That span the globe
Are now
Not just in the hands
Of the huge corporations
The information systems
They're now in the hands
Of the
As the powers
Of peace
And social justice
To put it
I guess that way
But Howard
Tell us a little bit
About
PeaceNet itself
What's on PeaceNet
Who uses it
How is it growing
And how people
Actually use it
To empower themselves
Well we're connected
To a number
Of networks
Around the world
Like GreenNet
In London
Pegasus
In Australia
Brazil
We have
GlazNet
In the Soviet Union
That's Glaznos Network
And all of these groups
Are advocacy organizations
Campaigners
Activists
Non-governmental organizations
So currently
And we're also connected
To about 60 other networks
So if you have
A correspondent
On another network
You can of course
Write to her
But our network
Comprises around
12,000 subscribers
In 90 countries
Who comprise
An honor list
Of the fields
Of human rights
Environmental preservation
Peace and conflict studies
And alternative news media
We carry
We are the source
For alternative news
And information
Aside from Pacifica
But we carry
Interpress service
Women's feature service
Pacific news service
And about 15 or 20
Other alternative news
And information sources
And that's part
Of our growth mode
Is really
The alternative news
And information source
People in New York City
Of course
Are lucky to have
WBAI
But in many parts
Of the country
Where Pacifica's
Signal doesn't reach
You have access
To PeaceNet
That's why
Tony Abergon
From Costa Rica
The investigative reporter
He says
PeaceNet and Pacifica
Those are the two sources
If you can get both
You're better off
And Howard
I'd like to say
Or announce to our listeners
We're kind of excited
About this
But you're actually
Coming to our station
Here on Friday
To teach us
How to use PeaceNet
So that we can
Get fully online
We have used
Through Bill Balls
Actually information
Off your system
On previous programming
But what we'd like to do
Is of course
Make it much more
Of a larger part
Of the information
That we put out
And so that
We can hopefully say
That PeaceNet
And Pacifica
Are indeed going to be
Sharing resources
And hopefully that will
Happen on Friday
And the number again
Is 212-279-3400
To become part of
This ever-expanding
Communications entity
Known as WBAI Radio
I should say
That people need
To have a computer
And a modem
At the beginning
And we'll provide them
With the password
And a user's manual
Which is very user friendly
Anybody who can do
Word processing
On a computer
Can certainly run our system
There's really only
About 15 basic commands
That you need to know
But you do need
To have a computer
And a modem
Hooked up to a telephone line
And from there
It's a local phone call
In New York
And in fact
It's a local phone call
In 390 communities
In the country
And if you're traveling
With a laptop
Of course
You can connect to us
From just about
Any part of the world
You find
For example
Pacifica national correspondent
Larry Benske
Travels all over
With his laptop
He'll be
He's hosting
The Gates hearings
And he's on
PeaceNet every night
This is Andrew Phillips
How are you?
I'm okay
Thank you Andrew
Good
Looking forward to seeing you
Later in the week
And Bill
Good evening to you
Hey there Andrew
How are you doing?
On the bridge
Okay
We've got three people
Calling 279-3400
I'm the straight man here
I'm going to just
Real quickly tell people
How they can get access
To this pretty exciting
Premium that we're offering
Tonight
Now we have four people
Calling 279-3400
I want to just
In about two minutes
Light this board up
Encourage as many people
As possible
To give us a call
Take advantage of this
Premium offer
Of a free subscription
To PeaceNet
And learn for yourselves
How it works
I know many people
Listening now
Tune in every
Wednesday at this time
For the personal
Computer show
Well Dave, Hank
And Joe
Will be back next week
For a two hour special
From nine o'clock
Through eleven o'clock
So we can look forward
To that
But I'm sure many of you
Out there probably
In your businesses
May not yourselves
Be aware of PeaceNet
I don't know if that's true
But try it out
Give it a shot
Give us a call
At 279-3400
Now pledge $65
To WBAI
You become a member
Of a listener supported radio
You help us do our work
The symbiotic relationship
As we say
And you get access
To PeaceNet
And that's a very exciting
Opportunity
I think for many people
To take advantage of
Right now
Tonight
279-3400
It's tax deductible
Mastercard or Visa
If you can afford more
$100 maybe
$250
That's great
We want to push this
Tally up to $3,000
Before we hit the
Rebroadcast of the
Evening news
It's currently
Just a little bit
Over $2,000
I think we've encouraged
About 17 or 18
New subscribers
Since 8 o'clock
This evening
We were hoping
To get $30
I wonder if we can do it
279-3400
Can we see
Just a couple more people
Calling us right now
Thank you
There's another call
There's another call
One more call
And we've got
Seven people calling
279-3400
You can get
The Hacker magazine
Telephone magazine
Of Emmanuel Goldstein
It's $2,600
And or you can get
The PeaceNet subscription
By calling us right now
At 279-3400
Evelyn
I should also say
Andrew
That we should
Also point out
That by subscribing
To PeaceNet
You have full access
To Econet
Or you can subscribe
To Econet
It's also on the
Same network
It's more or less
Under the same umbrella
So people who are
Into environmental
Preservation
And sustainability
The green movement
Toxics
The climate
The United Nations
Conference on
Environment and
Development
All of these issues
Will find a home
Here too
Howard and Bill
Dennis Law is also
In the studio
With us tonight
And I think he has
Some questions
For you
Well one of the
Things I wanted
To point out
And have you
Comment on
Is how
Environmental groups
Can save money
By collaborating
On projects
Over the net
Without having
To move to
Some expensive
City like
Washington D.C.
The Whole Earth
Review last
Spring mentioned
How a small
Organization like
Earth Trust
Is much more
Efficient
Because it can
Make use of the
Network to work
On reports
And projects
Without having to
Spend a lot of
Money on such
Things as moving
People and rent
And things like
That
It's not a
Substitute for
Face-to-face
Communication
And that's
You know
It's important
To remember
But you get
A lot of
Business transacted
Over the network
Whether it's
Writing proposals
Inter-office
Memos
Coordination
Strategy
Agreeing on
Slogans
You can send
Desktop publishing
Files back and
Forth around the
World
So they can
Be printed out
There are a lot
Of organizations
Online
And I could
Just mention
A few
For example
Amnesty
International
Has about
200 accounts
On our system
Oxfam
Rainforest
Action
Movement
The whole
United Nations
Conference on
Environment and
Development
A lot of it
Is being planned
On the networks
All of the
Preparatory
Committee meetings
Were online
From Geneva
The climate
Conference in
Nairobi
Right now
All of its
Reports are
Appearing online
For non-governmental
International actions
It's without
Peer and
Ability to
Share information
And to
Communicate with
Like-minded people
Around the world
Howard and or
Bill
How has this
Subversive
Information network
Actually
Is there any
Way to measure
The impact
That it's
Had on
Well
Accumulating a
Little bit of
Power
That for so
Long the
People that
Have actually
Had these
Tools
Have been
Able to
Foist on
The rest
Of us
Is there
Any
Perceptive
Change
Tangible
Change
That you've
Been able
To
Can I
Say something
Here
Go ahead
Bill
That is
If anything
Is the
Weak link
Of
All
Technologies
The
I think
PeaceNet
And other
Networks
Work extremely
Well
On the
Basis of
Coordinating
And collaborating
On projects
Of one kind
Or another
Where
Where the
Information
Can remain
Essentially
During that
Process of
Exchange
In its
Electronic
Format
For example
You remember
American Peace
Test
Evelyn
The guy
That we
Had on
The show
Talking about
How he
Organized
Or helped
Facilitate
A nationwide
Campaign
Around
Nuclear
Test
And in
Fact
The entire
Structure
Was totally
Distributed
The person
Who looked
After the
Money
Might be
In one
Place
The person
Developing
Propaganda
Might be
In another
Place
The person
Controlling
Or organizing
Facilitating
Networking
Maybe in
Another
Place
Where of
Course
Ultimately
If we're
Talking about
Moving
Beyond
Organizations
Is how do
You get
That out
To the
Average
Person
On the
Street
Who may
Be concerned
About these
Kinds of
Things
But they
Want to
Get their
Information
In a
Different
Format
Now normally
They'll get
It from
Television
Or get
It from
The
Newspapers
And I
Feel that
At some
Point or
Other
That information
Has got to
Grow out
Of that
But in
The meantime
What's got
To be
Established
Is this
Network
Of information
Collection
And that's
What Peace
Net along
With all the
Other networks
Is doing
Is that
That we're
I suppose
In a sense
You can
Describe it
As a
Critical
Mass
Of information
That I
Think at
Some point
Or other
Will burst
Out of
The confines
Of the
Network
Into the
Broader
Community
And I
Think this
Is where
The real
Struggle
Is
And this
Is why
It's so
Crucial
That
People who
Care about
Social justice
Issues
Or care about
Where the
World's
Headed for
And who's
Controlling
It
And so
On and
So forth
This is
Where it's
Really crucial
To get
Them
Involved
Because
There's a
Struggle
Going on
Between
The
Cooperations
Who want
To control
Our
Culture
To privatize
It
For example
And use
This
Technology
To
Cooperatize
And privatize
Things like
Libraries
And so on
And so on
And so forth
And as yet
A relatively
Small band
Of hardy
Folk
As it were
Who are
Attempting to
Take the
Same technology
And turn it
Round on
Itself
As it were
I think
How I've
Mentioned earlier
Has this
Capacity to be
All of these
Different things
It can work
For reaction
Or it can
Work for
Progress
So I think
That the real
Thing here is
Getting all
Of these
Groups
All the
People with
The crucial
Information
Like I mentioned
Tony Avagan
There's a whole
Range of
Journalists
And writers
And researchers
Who are using
This network
To collect
Information
To use
The tools
For example
To discover
New relationships
Between information
That only
Computer tools
Could give you
By for example
Doing searches
And saying
Well who's
This guy
So and so
I think
For example
A great
Project
For networkers
As it were
To be getting
Involved in
Would be
The BCCI
Scandal
Which is
Global in scope
And intricate
Even when it's
In one country
Where amalgamating
Vast amounts
Of different kinds
Of information
Together from all
These disparate
Sources and
Searching through it
And so forth
Is the kind
Of project
That PeaceNet
And all the
Other members
Of the PeaceNet
Fraternity
Is ideally
Suited to do
This is something
That up until
Now I think
Has been
The exclusive
Domain
As you say
As Howard
Mentioned
Of people
Like Richard Vigory
With millions
Of dollars
At their disposal
Of the state
Or transnational
Corporations
So I think
That's the direction
We're headed in
This is
Evelyn Telecosta
Bill
Do you
Is there a
Conference for the
BCCI scandal
On PeaceNet
Well
No I don't
Think there is
Is there Howard
Not per se
Well you find it
In the
Christic Institute's
Conference
You find it
In the
Nicaragua
Conference
You find it
In the
Conferences on
Finance in Europe
You know
It pops up
All over the place
Yeah
Okay
You see
That's a
Perfect example
Is that you
And this is
Exactly what's
Been happening
In fact
Is that
Somebody will
Be reading
Let's say
I started
Getting really
Good information
Out of a
Conference
The Guatemala
Conference
On PeaceNet
Where there's
One news agency
Called Cirigua
Which is a
News agency
Which has
Basically been
Focusing on
Human rights
And the
Military
And social
And political
Economic
Situation in
Guatemala
Suddenly found
Itself
Literally in the
Middle of the
BCCI
Scandal
Because
Because of the
Global nature
Of BCCI
And so
What started
Out as one
Investigation
Into abuses
And murder
And torture
And corruption
By the
Guatemalan
Military
Suddenly found
Itself
Globalized
By the
Nature of the
BCCI
Process
And hence
Suddenly you
Find the
Paris de
Quelle
Is involved
The French
President is
Involved
The former
Peruvian
President
Garcia
Is involved
The current
Bolivian
President
You know
Cascading out
And out
And out
As the
Ripples of
This particular
Process
Unfold
And are
Revealed
By all
These various
Investigators
And speaking
Of rippling
Out
The interactions
Between
PeaceNet
For instance
And Pacifica
For instance
Which is
Something we've
Been I guess
Struggling to
Achieve
With some
Of the
Stations
Howard
What about
Other news
Outlets
I know
That we've
Been having
Some trouble
With Pacifica
But I think
We're finally
Getting to
A point
Now where
We will
Be an
Outlet
For PeaceNet
Over the
Airwaves
And that's
One I guess
Example of
Interaction
Between the
Technologies
Has there
Been any
Interest
In other
In mainstream
Media outlets
In using
PeaceNet
As an
Information
Source
Well I mean
We do have
Subscriber and
The Christian
Science Monitor
And CNN
And the
Los Angeles
Times
Crusading
Reporters
But our
Forte is
With the
Alternative
Press
We have
More than
100
Alternative
Weekly
Newspapers
Online
It's called
The Association
Of Alternative
News
Weeklys
And they
Have their
Own press
Service
In
Northwestern
California
In
Humboldt
Mendocino
County
For example
There's a
Little press
Service
Called
Ecotopia
News
Which is
Composed
Of 13
Media
Outlets
Community
Papers
And radio
Stations
That swap
Articles
On the
Drug War
The federal
Drug Troops
Up there
As well
As the
Forest
Struggles
With Earth
First
Etc
So these
Things are
Springing
Up
I guess
Your previous
Question
What I wanted
To say
On that
Was that
We're
Really
It's only
Been
Since
Really
June
Of 1989
When these
Networks
Have had
A far
Reaching
Effect
On
International
Politics
And I'm
Talking about
The Tiananmen
Square
Incident
Massacre
In Beijing
This is
The first
Time
Where these
Decentralized
Computer
And communications
Technologies
Like fax
Machines
And even
The telephone
And computer
Networks
Were able
To mobilize
An entire
Opposition
Movement
Overnight
And the
Gulf War
This year
Was really
Only the
Second or
Third
Incident
Where we've
Really had
These tools
In place
The Soviet
Crisis
We were
Totally
Mobilized
In fact
We were
Getting reports
Out of
Moscow
And Leningrad
Through
BBS's
In Estonia
For example
Northwest
News Service
In Leningrad
Was sending
Us stuff
Through Estonia
Sweden
Britain
And it was
Saying the
Tanks are
Coming to the
White House
I'm standing
I'm standing
I'm standing
In front of
The White
House
Window
In Moscow
And the
Tanks
Are approaching
We had
That kind
Of contact
That kind
Of live
Contact
That is so
Important
When an event
Breaks
So when the
Next event
Happens
God forbid
It should be
Pretext
To encircle
Cuba
With a naval
Blockade
To interdict
Drugs
Or whatever
It might be
Throughout
Central America
And the
Caribbean
We have
Users
Monitors
And journalists
Who can
Report to us
Isn't there
Now a link
With PeaceNet
And Cuba
For the first
Time
You announced
That at the
Computers
For Social
Teams
Until the
Money ran
Out from
The United
Nations
And we're
Now looking
To raise
Money from
A foundation
In order to
Pay for that
Connection
Again
Technologically
It's possible
And we
Demonstrated
It
Financially
We have
To work
On supporting
It
And speaking
Of finances
And support
It's a perfect
Segway
This is part
Of a WBAI
Special
Information
Night
On computers
PeaceNet
Environmentalism
Activism
How these
Technologies
Are finally
Coming around
Slowly
And being
Used
Against
I suppose
The very
Entities
The corporations
That created
Them
And hopefully
To make
The world
A little bit
Easier
To deal
With
And some
Of the
Problems
That we're
Facing
We have
On the line
With us
Howard
Fredericks
From San
Francisco
Who's the
Director of
PeaceNet
Bill Bowles
Who is
I guess
A computer
Activist
Who lives
In Brooklyn
Who also
Has his
Own
Computer
Network
And in
The studio
Is Dennis
Law
Who's also
An environmental
Computer activist
But what
We're going
To ask you
To do
Now
Is go
Over to
The phone
And dial
212-279-3400
And become
A radio
Activist
Here at
Station
99.5
WBAI
We depend
On your
Support
To keep
This kind
Of conversation
Going
Which I'm
Not sure
Really takes
Place over
Airwaves
And too
Many other
Places
Other than
Pacifica
You know
We got a
Real good
Flurry of
Calls
Just a
Few
Minutes
Ago
And that's
Great
Just very
Briefly
Let me
Run down
What this
Is about
As
Howard's
Been
Speaking
And Bill
Has been
Speaking
With Evelyn
About these
Subjects
You called
And obviously
Were interested
And I think
If you want
To learn
More about
This
And get
Access to
PeaceNet
Yourselves
I know
Many of
You have
Computers
Who listen
At this
Time
You can
Do that
By taking
Out a
$65
Subscription
To WBAI
And calling
Us at
279-3400
It is
Tax
Deductible
Mastercard
Or visa
Is fine
We have
Volunteers
Standing
By
We've
Done
Pretty
Well
Tonight
We're
At
About
2000
Well
I don't
Think
It's
Been
Telled
Since
The
Last
Round
About
10
People
I guess
In the
Remaining
12
Minutes
Or so
To call
Us here
At
279-3400
I think
That we
Can meet
Our goal
For tonight
It will
Have been
A successful
Night
And tells
Us something
About the
Need for
Our radio
Station
To deal
More in
These kind
Of subjects
And we'll
Be very
Happy to
Do that
But we
Really need
To see
These lights
Light up
Here
And you
Can do
That by
Calling
Us at
279-3400
1212
279-3400
There's
Nobody calling
Can we
See
The first
Person
Call
For the
$65
Subscription
To
Peace
Net
A free
Subscription
So you
Yourself
Can get
To learn
About the
Kinds
Of things
That
Howard
Fredericks
Has been
Speaking
About this
Evening
There's
Nobody
Calling
279-3400
1212
279-3400
279-3400
There's
One person
Calling
Can we
See
Another
There's
Two people
Calling
279-3400
Let's just
Spend a
Couple of
Minutes
Before we
Go back
To the
Real matter
Of this
Program
279-3400
Because I'm
Sure that
Dennis has
A couple of
Things he
Might like
To ask
279-3400
There are
Four people
Calling
Thank you
That's
Great
We can
Take three
More phone
Calls