Penny Baker's fine documentary, Company, the making of an original cast album.
I was the one that sort of ended up having the lead in that documentary because I had
so much trouble with my song, so it turned into kind of a Cinderella story, you know,
that I finally got it right.
At 10 o'clock on Tuesday evening, October 22nd, Elaine Stritch returns to Out There
on Their Own to talk about that Penny Baker documentary and about a lot of other things
too.
This will be the second half of our survey of Elaine Stritch's work in the musical theater
and on recordings.
That's Out There on Their Own, Elaine Stritch, Part 2, Tuesday evening, October 22nd, right
here on WBAI-FM New York.
And looking grim, cause they've been sitting, choosing a hat.
Does anyone?
Hey, nothing to do?
Nowhere interesting to go?
Want to find out what's going on in your part of town?
How can you get around to the heart of our cultural city?
Wireless, WBAI's new weekly afternoon arts magazine program.
We'll give you everything from cultural affairs, literary happenings, sneak previews, and critiques.
So if you really want to know what's going on in your world, listen to us here at 99.5 on your
FM dial.
Tuesday afternoons from 3 to 4.30 here at WBAI.
And a very good evening to one and all.
It's 9 o'clock.
This is WBAI New York.
Time now for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
Bom-diddly-bom, for the best, it's paid for worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bom-diddly-bom!
Bom-diddly-bom!
Bom-diddly-bom!
and for those who may not know or for those that are new to the station or new to the area
off the hook is the program about technology from the individual point of view and if you
don't know what that means stay with us and we'll be talking about it first up some knowledge and
numbers from screaming target
this ain't no quiz show it ain't about what you know it's how you materialize the words that you vocalize that
speech is alphabet just enough but i don't fret conversation please with coffee and cigarettes
knowledge and numbers still ain't paying brothers and sisters you know what i'm saying
you know the right hand shake does not a brother make ain't about the way you talk
or the way you walk got the right ear do know the raps here soon shot you might get into gear i
hand and press my watch it when i sit down you're all on your own no more applause the crowd has gone wrong
now we're gonna have them where we're gonna go tell me what we're gonna do at the end of the show
knowledge and numbers still ain't paying brothers and sisters you know what i'm saying
now i'm gonna take you for admission my cultural tradition
consider you consider me
an opposition globally look around the splendor see of all the possibilities consider you consider me
talk about my lord
talk about my lord don't consider you consider me
oxmets possible
glass is down you're all in your own no more applause the crowd's gone wrong
now we're gonna have to look where we're gonna go tell me what we're gonna do at the end of the show
knowledge and numbers still ain't paying
brothers and sisters you know what i'm saying
at the end of the show
knowledge and numbers still ain't paying
brothers and sisters you know what i'm saying
blank
still ain't paying
life ain't a sweet show
ain't about what you know
it's how you materialize
words that you look alive
knowledge and numbers still ain't paying
know the right hand shape
ain't about the way you talk
or the way you walk
brothers and sisters
you know what i'm saying
too black
too strong
too black
too strong
too black
knowledge
the
the
the
the
the
the
the
And that's Screaming Target here on WBAI in New York.
You know, they just lost their record contract, at least for this country they did.
So any of you execs out there, various huge record companies, consider these guys because they say what needs to be said.
And here's something that needs to be said.
It doesn't really have to do with high tech or anything like that.
In a way it does, though.
It concerns one of our sister stations that's in trouble, WFMU,
the nation's first, most renowned, and longest-running free-form radio station,
will be holding a benefit at the Ritz in New York City.
That will be on October 26th.
It features Sonic Youth, John Zorn, and Painkiller,
Dim Stars with Richard Hell, Gumball, and Love Child.
All five performers are devoted listeners of WFMU
and are donating their services to help WFMU defend itself, listen to this,
against four public radio stations who are trying to reduce WFMU's power
because of a 30-year-old technical error.
And they've been referred to by the Village Voice as the best radio station in New York City.
I don't quite know if that's true, but maybe it's close anyway.
On a typical broadcast day, WFMU listeners could hear South African doo-wop from the 50s
followed by Japanese TV commercials,
an impromptu call-in discussion on the secret meaning of sneakers hanging from telephone wires,
information on free health care,
or an hour of records featuring pouting singers crying into their beer.
And at 1,440 watts, they've been defending themselves against four public radio stations
whose combined signal strength is over 60 times its own.
They are WSHU in Connecticut, WFUV up there in Fordham,
WKTW, Toms River, New Jersey, and WNYE of Brooklyn.
Shame on you.
They've each urged the FCC to slash WFMU's 1,440 watts to 650
because they've recently discovered overlaps in their respective coverage areas.
And such overlaps are, of course, common in the radio world.
So if you want to support radio in another dimension,
that benefit will be held on October 26th at the Ritz for WFMU.
That out of the way, let's take a look at some of the technical things that are going on
or lack of technical things that are going on in the world.
Here's a story that comes from the Risks Digest, which we haven't looked at in a while.
It's the electronic newsletter.
If you find yourself on a network called the Internet, you have access to this.
And if you don't, well, you have to listen to Off the Hook to find out what they're saying.
Kind of interesting here.
This is about an airport bug.
And I'm sure if you walk around, you'll find a lot of airport bugs.
This is a rather humorous one.
And I was recently returning to Paris from Birmingham in the U.K.
Birmingham International Airport has just opened a new terminal,
including, of course, the latest in computerized information systems to help keep travelers informed.
It appeared they no longer have a direct link between the screens being updated with new information,
such as certain flights at boarding gate E or flights being delayed by 30 minutes, that kind of thing.
And they also have a public service, not public service, but a public announcement to the same effect,
although it is a public service.
The public announcement seemed to be about five minutes after the screens were updated.
And on this particular flight that this person was trying to get on,
the gate details were displayed as gate E.
So this person and about 100 other passengers went to gate E and waited.
There were no airline staff people present.
So after about five minutes of over 100 people waiting at gate E,
the public address system announced quite calmly,
not indicating that the screens were displaying wrong information,
that my flight was boarding at gate D.
Not one single solitary soul moved.
Nobody believed the public announcement, even though there were no airline staff at gate E.
Everybody believed the computer screen, even though the computer screen was 100% wrong.
It was only when one of the airline staff at gate D wondered why none of the passengers had turned up,
that they came in person to investigate.
That must have been quite an investigation.
Where are all the passengers?
Only then, when the announcement was made in person,
was the information on the screens disbelieved.
It would have been something if they insisted on believing the screens,
even though the people were there telling them in person.
But logic prevailed after a while.
So it seems, at least on this experience,
that a majority of people now trust the information on screens,
even when it is directly contradicted by a human announcement
and by circumstantial evidence that the screens are not correct.
Have you ever done that?
Have you ever done something that's kind of illogical
because you saw it on a screen someplace,
and you thought, well, if it's on a screen, it's got to be correct?
That story came to us from Anthony Upward.
Have you ever done that?
I don't know if I've ever done that.
I'd like to think I haven't done that.
On my previous trip east,
this is another person who did not identify himself.
On my previous trip east,
I discovered an annoying bug in United's display program.
My flight was not listed on the multi-screen departures display.
After checking back several times, I discovered the problem.
Whichever flight should appear on the last line on the first screen
of a multi-screen departures display was getting wiped out.
An example of off-by-one programming.
And probably is still going on out there.
Okay, people who worry about your credit ratings being accessed.
Well, take a listen to this.
This comes from Peter Capek.
I reported here recently about the effect which might occur to an individual's credit rating
as a result of many inquiries by, say, car dealers,
where that person was shopping around for a car.
You go from one place to another and test drive cars and ask lots of questions.
Well, the dealers, in order to assess the likelihood that a person might buy a car,
would request a credit report on the individual.
But the effect of such repeated inquiries was to give the impression that the person was overextending himself.
So, when a credit inquiry is made, it doesn't necessarily mean the person took out credit.
It means that somebody wanted to check up on them.
So, you could very quickly destroy somebody's credit rating by just doing five or six consecutive credit checks on them.
And it'll look like they're planning something.
And, of course, anybody who sees that, because when you check somebody's credit rating,
you see if they've been checked before.
Well, anybody giving credit will say,
this person's up to something.
We're not going to trust him as far as we can throw anything.
Anyway, the Wall Street Journal of September 23rd, 1991,
reports on credit bureaus and their difficulties.
Specifically relating to the earlier comment is a description given by a headhunter
who would obtain from a candidate's credit bureau report
the names of other firms who had recently requested that report.
He could then call the candidate and say, quite accurately,
you're applying to X and Y and Z,
well, why don't you also consider W?
And, uh, that's actually not illegal to do something like that.
The most interesting item in that article, though,
was the intriguing lead in which much of the citizenry of Norwich, Vermont
is abruptly flagged as bad credit risks by TRW.
The problem was ultimately tracked down to an alarmingly simple error.
A person working part-time for a similar,
but not apparently related company
at obtaining public records and feeding them back to the credit bureaus
had been asked to obtain the list of Norwich's delinquent taxpayers.
But she mistakenly got the list of tax receipts
and carefully reported that some 1,400 residents
in a town of 3,100 were delinquent.
It took nearly three weeks to clear up.
Half the delay was simply in getting TRW to return repeated phone calls.
So, uh, it's a scary thing, credit agencies.
How about this? Scary things.
Talking about scary things, let's go to Harvard University.
All right, this, uh, comes from David Holland over there at Harvard.
It's also taken from the Harvard Independent of September 19th.
Uh, the key to security, computerized ID cards,
are the wave of the future.
But for residents of three dormitories up there,
Penny Packer, Hurlbutt, and, uh, Greenow,
time seems to be moving faster than in other parts of the university.
The Harvard University Police Department, known affectionately as HUPD,
has replaced the standard entryway keys for each of these dorms
with computerized credit card-like key cards.
According to HUPD Chief Paul Johnson,
the cards prevent unauthorized persons from gaining access to the dorms
and, are you ready,
enable the police department to track the use of each key card by computer
and prevent people from jimmying locks.
Now, we'll get back to that in a second.
It's state-of-the-art, said Johnson.
Now, Union dorm residents feel more secure with the improved locks,
said Penny Packer resident Missy Francis, 95.
I guess that's how they refer to people over there.
Ninety percent of the upperclassmen have skeleton keys to the yard.
So this way, no one can get into our dorms.
If all goes as planned,
other dorms will be wired by the end of the year.
Now, David Holland goes on to comment on this.
Some of the risks here are obvious.
Tracking the usage of each key, for example,
or each card.
I'm sure a lot of people are familiar with the implications of that.
Worse, the article implies that the police are actively aware of the possibility
and may be pursuing it directly.
While I have nothing against the Harvard police,
I nevertheless don't see this form of surveillance as a good thing.
Of course, the fundamental problem is that skeleton keys to all the dorms in Harvard Yard
are readily available to anybody who wants one
and has some vague idea where to go.
This is not a new risk, of course,
but I have severe doubts that throwing technology at the problem will make it go away.
There must be card keys somewhere that will open all the locks in question.
The maintenance staff still needs them.
It's only a matter of time before they start circulating just as freely as any other key.
I haven't seen any of these card keys yet myself,
but it strikes me as highly unlikely that they are not forgeable
and even more unlikely that, as the article claims,
the locks can't be jimmied.
And none of this even begins to take into account the risks of failure,
power failure, for example, or electronic interference,
or any of the other things that electronic devices are subject to in the real world.
The real world of which we are living right now.
Hacker news.
Denver hacker hacks NASA.
Boy, this brings back memories from the Denver Post.
An Aurora computer hobbyist who allegedly used a personal computer
and his home phone to penetrate NASA computers
hacked off Uncle Sam enough to be indicted on seven federal counts.
And that was earlier in September.
Richard Whitman, the alleged hacker, was accused of two felonies,
including gaining unauthorized access to NASA computers
to alter, damage, or destroy information,
and five misdemeanor counts of interfering with the government's operation of the computers.
Whitman allegedly got into the NASA system on March 7th,
June 11th, June 19th, June 28th, July 25th, July 30th,
and August 2nd of last year.
That's right, it took him a whole year to indict this guy.
Bob Pence, FBI chief in Denver, said,
Whitman used a personal computer in his home
to gain access to the NASA systems over telephone lines.
There's absolutely nothing new about this.
I don't know why it even makes the papers,
or why they haven't closed their security holes yet.
It's been going on for about ten years now.
And NASA is one of the easiest targets.
The investigation, which took more than a year, as we already noted,
concluded that Whitman accessed the NASA computer system and agency computers
at the Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama,
and the Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland.
The NASA computers are linked to a system called Telenet,
which allows qualified people to access government databases.
A username and password are required to reach the NASA computers.
Federal sources declined to reveal more information
because the complex case involves sensitive material.
Whitman, a high school graduate,
apparently hadn't worked in the computer industry
and held a series of odd jobs.
The felony counts against him
each carry a possible five-year prison term
and a $250,000 fine.
Now, I take a special interest in this particular case
because the exact same thing happened to me
oh, about eight years ago.
Eight years ago, they got me for doing the same thing.
Of course, it wasn't anything malicious,
and it doesn't say anything was malicious here as well.
And it makes you wonder, you know,
if the NASA computers were so easy to get into,
you know, way back in 1983,
well, then, shouldn't they have learned something?
Shouldn't they have managed to keep everybody out by now?
Apparently not, and it still takes a year
for them to manage to track down somebody
that's doing it or close the holes.
I don't know why they couldn't just close the holes in the first place
and, you know, keep them out that way.
It makes you lie awake at night worrying
when you realize what kind of hands our computer systems are in.
We'll be taking phone calls in a few minutes at 212-279-3400.
A couple more items, though.
This is on Radio Shack.
I think everybody's familiar with Radio Shack out there.
We've all been in there at some time or another.
And it's also an extremely annoying place to buy something.
Have you ever noticed that,
how annoying it is to buy something at Radio Shack?
They ask you all these questions.
You want a battery?
And they have to know who you are
and where you live
and your phone number
and all kinds of things like that
that I don't really wish to tell them.
It's horrible.
I'll tell you, though,
it's not as bad as this place out west in California.
I forget the name of it.
I mentioned it once before on the air.
When you walk in,
and let's say you see something you want to buy,
like a handheld radio or something.
You know, a regular portable radio
that you hold up to your ear
or a Walkman or something like that.
Well, first you have to see a sales counselor.
Serious.
They call them sales counselors.
And you have to sort of talk to them for a while.
And they ask you if you're sure you're making the right decision
and all that kind of thing.
Sort of like Counselor Troy on the Starship Enterprise,
I guess.
And once they're determined that you are, in fact,
going down the right road,
they fill out a little form.
Now, this is with the object that you want to buy
right there in front of you.
You can touch it.
You can hold it.
But you can't take it.
So then they fill out the form.
And then you have to go stand on line
and wait however long the line may be.
In my particular case, it was about 15 minutes.
And then the person who takes your little piece of paper
demands the appropriate amount of money.
And once you pay that amount of money,
they go send somebody to find one of the items
that you were looking at.
And then you're free to leave.
It's easier to buy things in the most repressive
of Eastern Bloc countries than one of those stores.
Perhaps somebody could help me with the name of it.
It's sort of like a crazy Eddie place,
except a different kind of a name.
I forget what it is exactly.
Radio Shack, though, is almost as bad.
And that's right here.
Because they always ask you who you are.
And here's a little story from the Risk Digest.
Joseph Poirer, I'll just say,
even though that's not really it,
writes about getting a receipt with someone else's name on it
when he declined to identify himself at Radio Shack
and wonders if their computer system
can't handle a transaction without a name.
Well, it turns out that this isn't a computer problem.
It is simply a management problem.
Radio Shack employees get a bonus
if they capture more than 95% of their customer names,
and the employees are reacting
in a locally rational way to anonymous customers.
Radio Shack has severe penalties
for employees who make up names.
I'd sure like to know what those penalties are.
Apparently, using the wrong real name is so far okay.
You just can't type in Donald Duck or something.
Or the guy with big ears
that keeps buying this particular product.
It's easy to ring up a sale with no name.
I get them to do it all the time.
But, you know, why should you have to get them to do it?
You know, it just doesn't seem right so now.
Radio Shack claims they use the names
only for their own mailing list,
which they do not sell.
But at least one person has reported
getting junk mail from other parties
with the same distinctive misspelling
as Radio Shack has.
And, uh,
personally, if they hassle me
when I decline to give my name,
I make one up.
Sometimes when I'm in a bad mood,
I make one up unprompted.
Well, this guy's a lot more patient than I am.
I, uh,
I would just walk out of the place
if they won't sell me something
without knowing who I am.
The one, uh,
the one by me has a different system
where you, uh,
tell them the last four digits
of your phone number.
And, of course,
I always give them 9970,
which is the always busy number in New York.
Any exchange followed by 9970
will give you a busy signal.
So, and, uh,
that, uh,
that sort of, uh,
doesn't catch them.
They don't really know what that does.
And it also references them
to the fake name
I gave them a couple of years ago
and a fake address, too.
So I just have to give them
those four numbers
and then my fake name
pops up on the screen
and they can deal with it.
Now, I'd like to know what happens
if someone else
has the same last four digits.
You know,
they live in a different exchange
with the same last four digits.
I have a feeling
they would get
my fake name
popped up on their receipt.
And it's kind of a scary thing, too,
because
your whole name and address
gets printed out
every time you buy something.
Which means
it's there someplace.
It's being stored
and if they wanted to
they could see everything
you ever bought at Radio Shack,
which, to me,
would not be that horrible
a revelation.
But, uh,
you start, uh,
doing that to grocery stores,
you start doing that
to department stores,
and visa bills,
plane tickets,
and you have a pretty good
portrait of what a person is
and what they do
and what they value.
Magazines they read,
that kind of thing.
Well, it's been an exciting week
for the phone companies, too.
Um,
the, uh,
federal appeals court
on Monday
turned back a decision
that, uh,
prevented local phone companies
from providing information services.
You may have seen
an advertisement
in, uh,
the New York Times,
full-page advertisement
from the phone companies
saying how newspapers
are trying to keep back
progress.
They,
they weren't very specific
as to what they were
talking about,
but they just
lambasted the newspapers
and said,
you know,
they're,
they're trying to
keep technology
out of your hands.
And it's kind of funny
to see this
full-page ad
in a newspaper
attacking newspapers.
But now,
the reason behind that
becomes clear
because, um,
what they were
trying to get,
which they did get,
at least for the moment,
was, um,
solidly opposed
by newspapers.
And for a very good reason,
if you look at, uh,
the kind of things
that, uh,
that we're going
to be seeing,
um,
home banking,
electronic yellow pages,
uh,
electronic newspapers,
magazines,
all kinds of things
that your phone lines
will now be able
to bring you.
I happen to think
it's a good thing.
I happen to think
it's, uh,
it's just fine
for, uh,
you know,
for all kinds
of technology
to be, uh,
coming into your home.
What would be bad,
though,
is if there was
a monopoly
on that kind of a thing
and if there were
high prices
or anything like that.
And I'd also
be very upset
if I saw something,
uh,
along the lines
of, uh,
the denial
of the First Amendment
to electronic publications
like we've seen
over the years.
and, uh,
nothing demonstrates
that better
than the computer
hacker cases
of the past
couple of years.
So,
while it's, uh,
potentially
a good thing,
we've got to
approach this
with, uh,
with some caution.
I'm going to, uh,
glance at, uh,
what today's
New York Times said,
Baby Bell's
still cautious
on data services.
Then we'll go
to the, uh,
telephones,
the very same telephones
that are being
affected by all this.
Having one
court permission
on Monday,
to begin immediately
providing information
services over the
phone networks,
the seven bell
companies are now
trying to figure out
which products
they want to rush
to market.
The services
most often discussed
include customized
stock quotes.
Always hear stock quotes
no matter what happens
in, uh,
in technology,
whether it's cable TV
or, uh,
cellular phones
or dial-it numbers
or anything.
It's always stock quotes.
Those are the things
that are always going
to get out there
to people.
Oh, yeah,
a new way
to provide stock quotes.
Well, I don't know.
That doesn't excite
me too much.
How about this?
Enabling callers
to get only the data
of interest to them.
In other words,
you could, uh,
you could go out there
and look for all articles
about, say,
Albania.
Just picking a country
at random.
Um, you could get
information on
Clarence Thomas.
You could do a full
bibliography
or biography on him
and all kinds
of other things
like that.
Home security.
Health monitoring systems.
I've fallen.
I can't get up.
Well, now you'll have
several options
as to how to, uh,
how to relay
that particular message.
Systems which
automatically dial
for help
in emergencies.
Electronic yellow pages.
Now, each of these services,
possibly others,
could be introduced
as early as next year
in a relatively simple form
but might eventually
be far more sophisticated.
For instance,
electronic yellow pages
may one day
allow stores
to use phone lines
to send video images
of their wares
into homes.
You want to look
at something,
they will send you, uh,
an image of it.
The, uh,
Bell Atlantic Corporation,
which is based
in Philadelphia,
they're the ones
that always try to
shove caller ID
down our throats,
they plan facsimile
deliveries of
electronic mail messages
stored at a Bell computer
as its first new service
and it hopes to offer it
before the end of the year.
But, uh,
most of the phone companies
cautioned consumers
not to expect
any new product announcements
until next year at least.
Everything is, uh,
still on the drawing board
according to, uh,
according to the phone companies.
But it is an exciting period
because who knows
what we will be seeing,
you know?
We, we might be seeing
things that make the, uh,
the changes in the telephone
as radical as when
the telephone itself
was first invented,
you know?
It'll change
our way of life.
But what we have
to be careful about
is that it does not
take away our privacy,
does not invade our lives,
and, uh,
does not make us more
a slave to technology.
Those are all the things
you have to look for.
Okay, enough, uh,
banter here.
212-279-3400.
The program is
off the hook.
This is Emanuel Goldstein.
We're with you
until 10 o'clock tonight.
And, uh,
if you have any questions,
comments on, uh,
some of the things
we've talked about tonight
or any kind of
general questions
about, uh,
telephones or
other forms of technology,
feel free to give us a call.
212-279-3400.
Good evening.
Oh, hello.
How you doing?
Fine.
Um, am I, uh,
speaking to the fellow
who has the, uh,
show on the telephone?
Uh, yes.
You're on the radio
right now.
Okay.
You know, uh,
what I wanted to talk about
was this, uh,
new information
on, uh,
Clarence Thomas.
Okay.
But, uh,
does that really have anything
to do with technical issues?
Yes.
Okay.
Because, you know,
um, in this latest,
I read this in the Times today
that, uh,
during this period
when, uh,
the woman who's made
these, uh,
accusations
of a sexual harassment,
the telephone company,
they have records
from this
Ah, yes.
period
of where she
herself
initiated
11 phone calls
to him.
Uh-huh.
Now,
the phone company
can store that data,
and if they store the data,
they certainly can retrieve it,
and it's not just
for long-distance phone calls.
It can be for anything.
Right.
But, I mean,
it is,
you see,
say, um,
like in the last,
let's say,
48 hours,
you know,
all of these, uh,
women's groups
have, like,
stormed Washington,
you know,
like,
demanding this
equality of
this
unquestioning
of her honesty
or dishonesty.
Uh-huh.
And it's through
the, uh,
system of this
technology of which
most Americans
we're really
unaware of,
you know,
every action
being, uh,
monitored in some
way or another.
I mean,
that's like 10 years
ago,
say,
for every American
in America.
Uh-huh.
Well, now,
you see,
okay, uh,
this person
called, uh,
Judge Thomas,
but we have no idea
what the terms
of those calls were,
I'm sure, you know.
Oh, but you see,
they also have that
he never initiated
any calls.
Uh-huh.
That's,
that is significant,
but the question
now is,
did the harassment
occur at all?
And, you know,
you can be on good
terms with somebody,
but if they harassed
you in the past,
well, they still did it.
You see what I'm saying?
Imagine this,
you see,
like,
in the last,
I think,
three years,
this article said
in the last three years,
she invited him
to speak
at her university.
Uh-huh.
The dean of the
university came out
and said that he's
completely been shocked
by this report,
this accusation,
because just,
you know,
say like X amount
of time ago,
she had invited him
to the university
to speak
and had both dinner
and breakfast
with him,
although he stayed
in a hotel,
had dinner
and breakfast
with him
and then took him
to the airport.
Uh-huh.
And I thought,
myself,
being a woman,
would,
if someone had
harassed me sexually,
whatever that is
supposed to mean,
would I have done that
if that were my
position in life?
And I said,
no,
absolutely not.
And then you be,
you know,
I'm saying through
the technology
of calling down
the information
because there is
so much information
being stored
just because that's
what I guess we do
in this modern time,
store information.
We never know
how like mere
accusations
at another time
would have stood up.
Now the technology
has come back
to haunt the accusers.
Uh-huh.
Well, you know,
we have to be careful
with how we interpret
those little bits
of data.
You know,
it's,
we,
as you say,
we should rely
on human contact,
what people said
to each other,
who was where,
when,
this person
invited somebody.
You know,
those are all facts,
but just looking
at the phone numbers
that were dialed,
you know,
that doesn't do it
for me in itself.
Well,
I would hope
it would at least
say like,
open your mind
to another possibility,
wouldn't it?
Uh-huh.
Yeah, I think,
I think that possibility
is being opened
in everyone's minds,
you know,
to a degree anyway,
but I think maybe
the most compelling thing
on this person's side
is that,
at least it seems to me,
she wasn't trying
to make it public.
Well, that was the whole thing,
you see.
I think she did this
with the thought
that it was going
to be a completely
private statement
and someone did leak
this to the media.
You know how these leaks
take place.
Uh-huh.
They're always convenient
for something or other,
but...
So if she did not
want it to get out,
then why would she lie?
You know,
that's what I keep
asking myself.
Well,
I mean,
I've thought about this.
If you,
you know,
want to go on to,
is your switchboard filled?
Yeah, it's pretty full,
but you can make
one final comment on this.
Well, you know,
what my comment would be
is that when I first
read about this,
this was in like
some paper
like the Daily News
and they always go
for the sensational line
and there they had
some quotation
of she coming
from a similar background
as he,
one of 13 children
from a very poor family
in Oklahoma
and there must have
really been some
possible feeling
of like closeness,
both, you know,
man and woman
and both of them
being black
and maybe there was
some kind of overture
at another time.
Maybe that would have
been just taken
as a normal occurrence,
you know,
like when people dated,
you know,
maybe.
Well, maybe,
but, you know,
I think he's got to say
exactly what happened.
Right now he's saying
he didn't do a thing
and I think he needs
to be a little more
specific about that.
Well, I think that,
well, they're going to
have this hearing
on Friday,
I believe, correct?
I'm not 100% certain
about that,
but it's going to be soon.
Right.
Well, it's going to be
very interesting.
I think that,
I don't think anyone
has even thought
that, you know,
she could have been
harassing him.
Uh-huh.
Well, it is possible,
I suppose.
Okay, well.
All right,
thanks very much for calling.
Okay, bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
It's an interesting time
in which we live.
You turn on the radio,
you read the newspaper,
and all of a sudden
everything has changed.
It would be the ultimate
irony, though.
I mean, think of it.
For months now,
people have been
attacking Judge Thomas
on his lack of a stand
on the abortion issue.
And now, all of a sudden,
one voice,
one voice in the wilderness
is enough to knock this
over on its side.
I guess, in a way,
it's a tribute to the power
of the individual.
Who knows?
Speaking of world events,
I saw something today
which really surprised me.
Looked in the New York Times.
On page A8,
on the bottom of the page,
a little tiny article,
headline reads,
Soviet Union agrees
to pull out of Poland.
Page A8.
Little tiny article.
The Times,
they have it changed.
Good evening.
Hello.
Yes, how are you doing?
Okay.
At WVI?
This is it, yes.
You're on the air.
Oh, okay.
First of all,
I found a new use
for a piece of office equipment.
A fax machine
can be used
as a graphics scanner
if you have a computer
and you want to create
PCX files.
Okay.
I've been having a lot
of fun with this.
You fax your selfie,
fax your computer
and most fax cards
have software
that will change
your incoming fax
to a PCX file
and you can do anything
that you want with it.
You can do everything
from printing badges
to doing blow-ups
to the full size
of your printer paper.
Uh-huh.
I've been having
a lot of fun with that.
And that's not documented anywhere?
No.
As a matter of fact,
people I've mentioned this to
have never heard
of this being done,
but, you know,
let's face it,
it's common sense.
If you can fax,
I mean, as you know,
fax cards in computers
can, many of them
can receive as well as send
and once it's in your computer
all you have to do
is manipulate the image.
How do you physically
send it to yourself?
Okay, well,
I happen to have bought
a real fax machine.
Prior to that,
I would go to
the places
where you pay like a dollar
to send a fax
and I would,
my wife would go to the place,
I'd stay at home
with my computer
and she'd fax it
to my fax card.
I faxed my own photograph
like that
and, well,
the people at the fax service
thought it was taking
a hell of a long time.
My wife says,
well, it's not going
to a real fax machine,
it's going to a computer
and my fax card
operates at 4,800 BPS,
which is half the speed
of normal fax
and then we're doing
a photograph
so we tied up
the guy's machine
for about 15 minutes.
He's only getting a dollar.
He didn't really
like our business.
No, I can imagine.
Because then you get
phone calls,
you know,
other people trying
to send him faxes
and his machine
is tied up
with my wife
sending me pictures
of myself.
So they probably
locked the door
when they see you coming.
Well, I had a coupon
and I sent a fax
for only a dollar
and they started
taking the coupon
instead of letting me
keep it
so I ran out of coupons.
But anyhow,
now I've got
a fax machine.
Some of them
do a very good job
on photographs
and I found out
that my fax machine
will filter out red.
So if you have
something pre-printed,
like on a red piece
of paper,
it'll filter out the red
and give you black type,
which is nice.
Whether you want
to make a copy
on the fax machine
or send it out
elsewhere,
the red will be
completely
as you may know
for about a year
or more,
CompuServe
has had
the 800 directory.
You know,
oh, it's an 800 directory
or is this
to find somebody?
Well, no,
they have two things.
They have an 800 directory
for which there's
no charge whatsoever.
Then there's
a telephone lookup
where you can look
up people's phone numbers
like a call directory
but it's nationwide.
Yeah, you know,
I had somebody
try to find me once
and I've got
various different
numbers and names
and things like that.
It couldn't find anything.
Well, it doesn't.
It charged them
a pretty penny
for not finding anything.
Well, yeah,
you pay your regular
CompuServe per minute charge
at 300 or 1200 BPS
is 10 cents a minute.
I use 2400 BPS
is 20 cents a minute
and to look up
people's phone numbers
is a surcharge
of 25 cents a minute.
I can usually do
my lookup
in one minute.
So it's 10 or 20 cents
a minute plus 25 cents
a minute.
Yeah, yeah.
It adds up, you know.
Pardon?
It adds up.
Yeah, well, the thing is
that if you have a macro
and just shoot the number
in real quickly,
you know,
that certainly speeds it up.
I've done a search,
for example,
on Medline in Boston
where it's easily
50 cents a minute.
I mean, you've got to
get your macros
ready ahead of time
or else you're really
going to have a high bill.
But the nice thing
about the phone lookup,
it's nationwide.
I mean, in other words,
you don't have to look up
city by city.
You just put in your area code
and the number
to get what you want.
But it's only
listed numbers.
But that they've had
available for six months
to a year.
And the 800 directory,
for which there's no charge
whatsoever,
not even the CompuServe
per minute charge.
I mean, anybody can do it
if they're not a member
of CompuServe?
A member of CompuServe,
but their meter stops
ticking as soon as you
gateway into the 800
directory systems.
One little flaw, however,
is it only has AT&T 800 numbers.
It does not have the 800 numbers
of competing companies.
Well, that's quite a few of them.
I mean, there's a lot of MCI numbers
and Sprint numbers out there,
cable and wireless.
Right, definitely, definitely.
So, yeah, that would not be
a very effective thing to have.
I mean, yeah, you get maybe
60% of them if you're lucky.
But you can do searches
by category, which is nice.
If you want everyone
who manufactures,
for example, computer monitors,
hopefully you can find
some companies
you're interested in.
Well, I hope somebody
comes out with a real 800
directory that is not just
for AT&T or not just
for one company,
but for everything.
Apparently, when you call
up the live operator,
800-555-1212,
you get all the companies.
Uh-huh, but you can't
get a list, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
One you can access
at your leisure.
Right, because they sell you
an AT&T directory,
but it's only AT&T,
which is very frustrating.
In fact, when you log on
to this 800 online directory,
they'll take your order
if you wish to order
one of the directories.
Uh-huh, that's true.
Which have no interest.
And now, the electronic banking,
I think that's been possible
through CompuServe
since about 1987.
Uh-huh.
Well, you know,
I can't really imagine
what good the electronic banking
does people.
I mean, maybe you can
transfer funds,
but what else can you do?
You can't deposit
and you certainly
can't withdraw.
I've never wanted it myself,
but if you have people
you pay every month,
you can have your account
debited and credited
to their account
electronically, assuming...
Well, you know,
that's all fine and dandy,
but these things
go awry very often.
I read a story
a few weeks ago
about a guy in Holland
who died,
and nobody knew
he was dead
because his bills
kept getting paid
every month
automatically.
Well, there's a company
I know that had
one of their clients
paying, you know,
with electronic banking,
and because that guy's company
was not set up
to receive the funds
that way,
the bank would actually
send a check
through the mail
to the post office,
and because this lady
wanted the check sent
at the very last minute,
her payment was always late,
so she was always
being charged
a late payment fee.
Uh-huh.
So, I mean,
I've been into computers
since 87,
and I've never been
interested in
electronic banking.
Incidentally,
I wrote a tutorial
which is available
on one of the
bulletin boards here,
which is a subscription
bulletin board.
It's a tutorial
on using your fax machine
to create computer graphics.
Okay, you want to
give the phone number
for that?
Okay, the phone number
of the bulletin board
is Invention Factory,
212-431-1254.
That's 431-1254,
and the file starts
with the word R-A-Y-T,
because my name is Ray,
and my wife's name
is Rita.
In fact, I have pictures
of ourselves
who scanned in,
and a terrific source
for free graphics
is catalogs
that advertise things
like business cards
and matchbooks.
They have nice,
crisp, clear graphics,
because, of course,
they want to show you
how good their artwork is.
Uh-huh.
Those scan beautifully,
so you can have
a one-inch square
that once you scan it in
with your scanner,
I mean, you can blow it up
to 8.5 by 11,
and it's real beautifully sharp.
Okay, well,
thanks for sharing that
with us,
and good luck.
212-279-3400,
we're talking about
various forms
and afflictions
of technology,
and what lies in store
for us now
that the Bell systems
will be able to
do almost anything
on our phone lines.
Who knows?
Maybe picture phones
will actually
happen someday.
Boy, I remember
that at the World's Fair,
but that's another story.
Good evening.
Hi, Mario.
Can we step back
to stupid questions now?
We can step back
to anything you want.
What's on your mind?
Okay.
You said something
when you were discussing
those new keys
at Harvard.
Uh-huh.
You said,
and everybody knows
what those can be used for,
and I thought,
by golly, I don't.
Uh, at what stage
did I say that?
Ha, ha, ha, ha.
You were talking about
that it could be used
for the,
that the cleaning men
would have one
and that it would be recorded
so that the use of them
could be recorded.
All right.
Well, yeah,
what I was referring to
was just knowing
where everybody was
at a particular time.
If you had one of these keys
and you went into,
say, your dormitory,
then you went into
another building
and, you know,
whatever buildings
that key opens,
somewhere there would exist
at least the potential
to print out your movements,
where you were
at a particular time.
Does it print out the...
Well, you see,
I don't know if it actually does,
but if it's able to track
where you are
at a particular time,
then certainly
they can recall
that information.
And, you know,
some people may think
that's all for their protection,
but where do we draw the line?
You know,
how much of an invasion
of our privacy
are we going to accept
for our protection?
You know,
I'm thinking back
to when I was in school
in Chapel Hill
in the early 60s,
and the dorm building
itself was not locked,
and the dormitory rooms
were not locked.
Really?
Yeah,
And it was just one
of those things.
The worst that ever happened
is somebody borrowed
a pair of socks
or your favorite sweater
without asking first
and then returned it,
you know,
and returned it dirty,
which was even worse.
That's, you know,
I kind of like to know,
actually,
what kind of locks
they use on dormitories
these days,
because certain schools,
I'm sure there are
some schools
like Chapel Hill
still that don't lock things,
but then there's
other schools,
like Harvard,
that have these
sophisticated electronic locks.
What kind does
your university have
or your institution?
It's a good point.
No,
I was wondering
what has changed.
Why is it that
it's necessary
to lock everything up?
I don't think
Harvard locked up
back in the early 60s.
What has changed?
That is a very good point.
I think we've become
more alarmist.
You know,
I don't think
that sort of ties
into what we were
talking about last week
with caller ID.
I don't think people
are getting more
obscene phone calls now
or anything like that,
but it's being
prodded into them
that, yes,
you're being harassed,
there's more crime,
there's more horrible
things going on.
That I don't agree with.
The reason for things
like that
is because students
have demanded it,
and it must be
because there has been
a higher rate
of thievery
or of invasion
of one sort or another.
I don't think
that the universities
say,
oh, wow,
let's go to all
this expense,
put locks on the,
you know,
these key locks
on the doors
in order just to
impress,
I don't know whom.
Well,
I can tell you
one thing
that usually
university administrations,
the last people
they ask
are the students
usually has something
to do with
budgetary things
or whatever.
In the case
of state universities,
what the state says,
so, you know,
there's a lot of factors,
but the students,
they're in there somewhere,
but they're not
at the top of the list.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right,
and the other thing
is a brief comment
on Anita Hill
talking to the Congress aide
or whoever she talked to.
Okay, real quick.
You and that first caller
were wondering
why she would do it
if it weren't true,
and it seems to me
that since she had been assured
privacy, secrecy, anonymity,
except to the Congress people,
that it may be
that she was doing it
out of malice
and never expected
to be caught at it.
That's possible,
I suppose.
Yeah, I mean,
because if she were not
afraid to be identified,
it seems to me
that she would not
have done it
with an assurance
of privacy
and insistence
on privacy.
But from what I've heard,
he's the one
that asked her out.
It wasn't her asking him out
and being jilted
or something like that,
but who knows,
there may be malice
in there someplace.
Yeah, yeah.
I understand that she,
I heard that she was
scheduled to be a debater
opposing the nomination
as well fairly recently
at some kind of a debate.
So I would go along
with the first woman, though.
There's just too many holes
in her story.
Okay, thanks for calling.
Good evening.
Yes, I just want to ask
another stupid question.
Go ahead.
Why don't TVs have
a Channel 1?
I mean, is that
something new or...
No, you know,
that's something...
Somebody told me
the answer to that once,
but there is a reason for it.
I just don't know
what the reason is.
I do know that
when television first started,
I remember there was
an article that was
reprinted someplace,
Television to Start Today.
Yeah, I think I know
where I saw it.
I think I saw it
on the anniversary program
for Channel 2 recently.
They made reference
to a Channel 1
and a Channel 2.
At some point,
they decided to just
start with Channel 2.
Most countries have
a Channel 1, you know?
Yeah.
I don't know why we don't.
I really don't.
I mean, we have the AUX,
but you could count that
as 14...
AUX?
Don't you mean UHF?
Yeah, that one.
Right.
Well, that's actually
a lot more than one.
Yeah, 14 through, like, 80,
but it's just surprising
that we don't have it,
and why not?
Well, that's something
that I'll open up
to greater minds than mine.
Do you remember?
Tell us next week
if you can.
Okay, I'll look into it.
I'll do some research.
See ya.
All right.
Good question.
Good evening.
Yes, good evening.
You know,
the thing about
these phone books
is that you can go down
to the 42nd Street Library
and you can get
all the phone books
down there
and take them
to the third floor
with your library card
and Xerox them.
I think they are
in the third floor
in the reference division.
And Xerox them
for 25 cents a page
instead of paying
Lexus Nexus
10 or 20 cents a line.
Good point, yeah.
And another thing
about this phone company.
Now, this has great dangers.
You know,
I'm old enough
to remember
Dieter Beard
and the phone companies
in South America
and all that,
AT&T.
And the first murder
has been committed
over computer tech.
Now, maybe not the first,
but the first public one
that's in the front page
of the Village Voice
this week.
This guy, Brian,
who owned UPI,
stole Inslaw's technology,
the computer program,
allegedly.
And this reporter
was killed.
And if you got
all this information,
the phone company
knows every corporation
that's making a call
to their customers.
And AT&T
is the hugest monopoly
in the world.
If they want to take
over a business,
all they have to do
is access the phone records
and the addresses
of the customers
and steal the customers
themselves
by underselling them
with their economic might.
and they can blackmail
anybody,
including the president
of the United States
or the congressman
calling his girlfriend
or his mistress
or anything like that.
They have tremendous power
and they're conglomerate
and they're ruthless.
And let me say something
about the computers.
I read in Mac Magazine,
Macintosh Magazine,
that the New York Times,
I remember the New York Times
and all the newspapers
and magazines
in this country
at the turn of the century
used to use child labor
to sell the newspapers
as newsboys.
And they got rich off that.
And now they're getting rich
off the computers
because Macintosh Magazine
said that the New York Times,
they did a scientific study
that was in Macintosh Magazine,
that the computers give off,
make you get cataracts
from using those screens.
Also the low levels
of radiation,
the high levels
of radiation,
even the phone wires,
can cause cancer
and other diseases.
And they're exploiting
all these editorial
and advertising people
to get rich
and they don't give a damn
about them,
whether it's a New York Times
Daily News
or any of them
and they busted the Union
at UPI.
And we in the press
have to have our own army
to go against these bastards.
Okay.
Well, I certainly
said a mouthful there.
Oh, I thought I had an agenda.
But, yes,
some good points in there.
All right,
let's go to another call.
Good evening.
Hi.
My questions may be
the height of innocence,
but I'm sure
you'll oblige me.
The first thing
that I'm interested
to know
is
exactly
why,
given
that we're living
in one of the largest
cities in the world,
New York City,
which has probably
more phones
than almost
anywhere else
in the world,
exactly how
and why
can a phone company
charge
a per-call rate
of 10.6 cents
as 9X does,
given that
a few years ago
when I was in Canada,
for instance,
their billing rates
are something like
$15 to $20 a month
for a basic home service,
and there is no
per-call charge.
It's, you know,
it's different.
How is it that
a company like 9X
can get away with it?
Well, they can get away
with it because
we let them get away
with it,
because the Public Service
Commission says
it's okay for them
to charge these rates,
and people don't object,
and they allow it
to happen.
In fact,
businesses
have it even worse
because they have to pay,
they make a local call,
it's timed as well,
so while you have to pay
10 point whatever cents,
you pay for each minute
after that,
and of course,
you know,
we know it's not costing
the phone company
anywhere near that.
Exactly.
I guess what really
galls me even more,
Emmanuel,
is that,
as you know,
9X has come out
with a new service
called Voice Messaging Service,
and I've had a number
of conversations
with these people
asking what their
cost structure is,
and unbelievably,
it almost shot me
out of the water
when I heard
that they charge,
every time you want
to retrieve your message
from the voice box,
there's a local charge
for making that call.
It's crazy.
So in essence,
every time you want
to listen to your messages,
if you want your relatives
to hear the message,
9X is making money off that,
on top of the flat
monthly charge
for that service.
An answering machine
is still much better.
So I just can't believe,
again,
how the public
let 9X get away
with that,
for instance.
Well,
you don't have to
subscribe to that,
fortunately.
There are some places
that have digital phone systems
where you don't have
a choice,
and you have to
use their system.
You can't use
a regular answering machine.
But what bothers me
most about that
is the fact that
your messages
are their property.
They're not your property.
They're not tangible.
They're not on your hands,
and they can listen to them.
Whether they do or not,
of course,
is open to conjecture.
Thanks for calling.
We have time
for one more phone call.
Good evening.
Yes.
Go ahead.
Okay.
One channel
was where
the 6-meter
ham band is.
Oh,
is that so?
It's at
between 50
and 54
megahertz.
Now,
why don't they
simply call
channel 2
channel 1,
though?
Well,
they wanted to sell
the same equipment
overseas
where there isn't
a 6-meter
ham band.
Uh-huh.
So,
in Europe,
they can use
the channel 1.
Oh,
I see.
So,
channel 1
is a sort of
a universal thing.
Apparently.
Apparently,
yeah.
That's interesting.
Okay,
well,
thanks for filling
us in on that.
I bet you
tipped me off
as to why
the Radio Shack
people have
a manager's
commission.
Uh-huh.
Now you can
confront them
with that
next time
you see them,
huh?
Yes,
because I've
done business
with them
since they
only had
one store
in Boston
on Winter
Street.
Uh-huh.
I bought
a National
NCX-7
from them.
That was
back in the
30s.
But they
had a
arrangement
there,
and I'd
give my
hand call
instead of
the name,
and I don't
give them
a telephone
number because
the telephone
number belonged
to somebody
else.
Wow.
Sir,
we're out
of time,
unfortunately,
but thanks
for filling
us in on
that,
and keep
listening.
That's going
to just
about do
it for us
here tonight
on Off
the Hook.
Tune in
again next
week.
Stay tuned
for the
computer show.
This is
WBAI,
New York.
The telephone
keeps ringing,
so I ripped
it off the wall.
I cut myself
while shaving,
now I can't
make a cost.
It couldn't
get much
worse,
but if they
could,
they would.
Bum,
diddley,
bum,
for the best
expect,
for worst.
I hope
that's understood.
Bum,
diddley,
bum!
Bum!
Bum!
Bum!
Bum!
Thank you.