Off The Hook - 1991-11-13

[00:03.330 --> 00:06.670]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a professor of theoretical physics here in New York City.
[00:06.970 --> 00:09.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: This has been Exploration.
[00:09.310 --> 00:16.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: Join us every Wednesday evening from 8 o'clock to 9 o'clock when we discuss science, war, peace, and the environment.
[00:17.410 --> 00:17.590]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening.
[01:21.850 --> 01:23.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's just about 9 o'clock.
[01:23.990 --> 01:26.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Time once again for Off the Hook.
[01:32.970 --> 01:37.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:38.530 --> 01:40.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: I cut myself while shaving.
[01:41.370 --> 01:43.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now I can't make a cough.
[01:43.970 --> 01:46.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: It couldn't get much worse.
[01:46.830 --> 01:48.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: But if they could, they would.
[01:48.910 --> 01:51.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Boom, diddly, boom, but the best is back from worst.
[01:52.370 --> 01:54.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: I hope that's understood.
[01:54.390 --> 01:55.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Boom, diddly, boom!
[02:33.870 --> 02:35.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: And a very good evening to one and all.
[02:36.170 --> 02:37.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: The program is Off the Hook.
[02:37.190 --> 02:45.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein with you for the next hour talking about all kinds of technological and innovative type of things.
[02:45.090 --> 02:49.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: And taking your phone calls at 279-3400, as always.
[02:52.790 --> 02:54.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, what's new this week?
[02:54.750 --> 02:58.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: All kinds of things are happening, as always.
[03:02.050 --> 03:12.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the secret is how to interpret the news that we hear and how to translate it into whatever it holds in the future.
[03:13.630 --> 03:25.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: For instance, you may have seen an article in today's New York Times about how a file that was used to deport Jews was found by the French.
[03:25.210 --> 03:47.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: A prominent hunter of Nazis announced yesterday that after more than 40 years of looking, researchers have found a comprehensive file of the names of 150,000 Parisian Jews that the French police compiled during World War II and used to round up tens of thousands of Jews.
[03:49.270 --> 03:59.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: The Nazi hunter, Serge Klarsfeld, said the files, which were missing since 1944, were discovered in the archives of the Ministry of Veterans Affairs.
[04:00.050 --> 04:10.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: The fate of the files has been a mystery for decades, and it's been suggested that some government officials had hidden the files to avoid embarrassment about France's collaboration.
[04:14.360 --> 04:19.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: The importance of these files comes from their having played such a sinister role, Mr. Klarsfeld said in an interview.
[04:20.200 --> 04:26.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: They were used to arrest tens of thousands of Jews, and people have been searching for these files for 47 years.
[04:27.780 --> 04:29.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think someone was hiding them, he said.
[04:31.100 --> 04:42.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: They were discovered when researchers working under Mr. Klarsfeld were looking through the Ministry's archives as part of a historical project on the deaths and deportations of French Jews in World War II.
[04:49.010 --> 04:56.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, it's very interesting, you might be saying to yourself, that's a fascinating story, Emmanuel, but what does it have to do with technology?
[04:58.570 --> 05:02.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, we're talking more than 40 years ago.
[05:02.650 --> 05:06.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: The technology that existed then was simply a crude list of sorts.
[05:07.330 --> 05:11.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: Were the same thing to happen today, how much more efficient do you think it would be?
[05:12.370 --> 05:18.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you go to Germany today, you'll find some rather sobering statistics.
[05:18.790 --> 05:26.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm not talking about all the neo-Nazis running around, I'm talking about what is legal, what is the law over there.
[05:26.390 --> 05:34.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: And one law that we've mentioned here before, but it bears repeating, it is a law that you have to carry an identity card at all times.
[05:36.150 --> 05:37.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: No question about it.
[05:37.590 --> 05:39.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: You have to have it on you at all times.
[05:40.290 --> 05:45.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: And on this identity card is your name, first and last, your address.
[05:45.890 --> 05:51.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: And if you move, you have to register and tell the police, tell the authorities that you have moved.
[05:51.170 --> 05:55.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: And your card must bear your current address.
[05:55.530 --> 06:07.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: Also, on this card is your date of birth, where you were born, and, get this, your nationality.
[06:08.130 --> 06:10.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: In other words, where were you born?
[06:11.190 --> 06:12.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: Where are you from?
[06:12.290 --> 06:12.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: Are you German?
[06:13.110 --> 06:14.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or are you a Turk?
[06:14.470 --> 06:16.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or are you a Pole?
[06:17.490 --> 06:18.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or Bulgarian?
[06:19.050 --> 06:21.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or from some other place?
[06:23.930 --> 06:28.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, it doesn't take much to realize that these are not just cards with this information.
[06:28.930 --> 06:31.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: that this information is also stored someplace.
[06:32.850 --> 06:38.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: And as in the nature of any computer file, it can be called up based upon any of the fields.
[06:40.230 --> 07:02.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, our little file that was used to deport the Jews that was found very recently, had that file existed today, it would have been a lot more complete, a lot more easy to utilize and put into effect.
[07:02.970 --> 07:16.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: For instance, today, in Germany, if you wanted to, and if you had the power, you could get a thorough listing of everybody of a particular national descent.
[07:16.870 --> 07:21.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or you could get a thorough listing of everybody whose last name was Schmidt or something.
[07:22.110 --> 07:25.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: You could get a listing of people who live in a certain town.
[07:26.170 --> 07:29.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: You could get a listing of people who were born on a certain date.
[07:30.290 --> 07:33.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Whatever it is you want to get, computers allow you to get that.
[07:34.670 --> 07:46.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, uh, when you have information stored on you, when you have, uh, identity cards and supercomputers, there's all kinds of things you can do.
[07:48.650 --> 07:51.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's something that's definitely worth thinking about.
[07:52.070 --> 08:03.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: And also, as a footnote to that, you might be interested to know that all of you that, uh, have passports, and I imagine quite a few of our listeners do have passports, take a good look at them.
[08:04.510 --> 08:06.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: These are American passports we're talking about.
[08:06.490 --> 08:09.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: Look at the, uh, I believe it's the last page.
[08:09.910 --> 08:14.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: You'll see this, uh, very long number on the bottom of the form.
[08:15.510 --> 08:20.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the number begins with a P. The P means passport, obviously.
[08:21.770 --> 08:25.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: You might find it rather curious that the German system is exactly the same.
[08:26.030 --> 08:27.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Same numbering scheme and everything.
[08:27.630 --> 08:32.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: The only difference is that their long number at the bottom begins with an I for ID.
[08:33.210 --> 08:34.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, it's the same system.
[08:35.930 --> 08:37.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if they're integrated.
[08:37.190 --> 08:40.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if they talk to each other, but it's the same system.
[08:41.270 --> 08:42.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I've said about that.
[08:43.210 --> 08:50.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's, uh, something that hopefully people will be keeping an eye on in the future.
[08:52.510 --> 09:04.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Also, uh, some of us may have been listening to the news, hearing some familiar names, and, uh, realizing that our own Amy Goodman was, uh, over in East Timor during, uh, the revolution.
[09:05.130 --> 09:10.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I don't know if it's quite at a revolutionary stage yet, but, uh, it certainly will be soon.
[09:11.090 --> 09:14.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll, uh, read you the dispatch that came from the New York Times.
[09:14.350 --> 09:21.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: An American journalist who witnessed the military attack on a procession of mourners in East Timor, uh, yesterday.
[09:21.610 --> 09:23.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Actually, it was, uh, it was on Monday.
[09:23.650 --> 09:28.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: He said in an interview from a hospital in Guam that dozens and dozens of people had been killed.
[09:28.690 --> 09:32.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: He said the troops had fired automatic weapons into the crowd.
[09:32.830 --> 09:40.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: The journalist Alan Nairn, who was on assignment for the New Yorker magazine, was beaten in the attack and had his passport confiscated.
[09:40.510 --> 09:49.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: He flew to Guam by way of ballet shortly afterward by commercial airliner and was admitted to Guam Memorial Hospital.
[09:49.610 --> 09:59.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: Another American journalist, Amy Goodman, producer at New York radio station WBAI, was also in Timor during the attack, was also beaten, but less severely.
[09:59.910 --> 10:07.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks to, uh, Claude, we have a, uh, a, uh, interview with Amy that was, uh, done over the BBC.
[10:07.590 --> 10:10.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: We received it here at WBAI earlier.
[10:11.010 --> 10:13.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, we're going to play a bit of that.
[10:14.530 --> 10:17.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, also want to let people know that we've talked to Amy.
[10:18.030 --> 10:18.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: She's okay.
[10:18.650 --> 10:19.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: She's in Hawaii.
[10:19.270 --> 10:22.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: She should be back in, uh, New York within a matter of days.
[10:22.490 --> 10:24.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: So we're keeping an eye on that situation.
[10:24.430 --> 10:30.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: But it just goes to show you that, uh, we live in a very weird world, and in the radio world especially.
[10:30.550 --> 10:32.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: You never know what's going to happen next.
[10:32.730 --> 10:36.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, uh, we've learned not to take anything for granted.
[10:37.370 --> 10:43.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Especially when we, uh, have crazy events in this world of ours.
[10:44.010 --> 10:45.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, let's take a listen to the BBC.
[10:46.290 --> 10:49.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: We'll be back with some phone calls, 279-3400.
[10:50.050 --> 10:58.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Timor, when Indonesian troops opened fire on a crowd who had come to hear a memorial mask for a young man killed at a disturbance two weeks ago.
[10:58.870 --> 11:06.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, as a statement by the Indonesian military spoke of a riot involving anti-Indonesian groups, eyewitnesses had a different story.
[11:06.830 --> 11:09.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the international condemnation has been unanimous.
[11:09.710 --> 11:24.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: This included the UN General Secretary, the human rights group Asia Watch, and the Portuguese government, which last month suspended the visit of a fact-finding mission to East Timor, because Indonesia refused to accept one of the accompanying journalists.
[11:25.450 --> 11:36.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: The incident in Dili was witnessed by two American journalists, Alan Nairn of New Yorker Magazine, and Amy Goodman, news editor for WBAI Radio in New York.
[11:36.670 --> 11:41.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Both were badly beaten up and are being treated in a hospital on the island of Guam.
[11:42.250 --> 11:45.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: There I contacted Amy Goodman, and she told me what happened.
[11:46.510 --> 11:54.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: On Tuesday morning at 7 o'clock, there was a mass commemorating the funeral two weeks before of a young man who was killed by the Indonesian military.
[11:55.050 --> 12:03.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: The mass ended, and then there was a repeat of the procession, a repeat of the processional route to the cemetery where he was buried.
[12:04.010 --> 12:10.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: This time, the difference was there were even more people, more than, there were several thousand people who marched.
[12:10.490 --> 12:12.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: People joined all along the way.
[12:12.450 --> 12:16.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: There were young people, six and seven and eight years old.
[12:16.430 --> 12:20.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: There were older people, older women in their Timorese traditional costumes.
[12:20.790 --> 12:27.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: There were students in there, uniformed high school students, a real cross-section of society.
[12:27.810 --> 12:31.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: When they got to the cemetery, it was basically over, and that was the end of it.
[12:31.730 --> 12:34.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's how it had ended two weeks before, and everyone went home.
[12:34.390 --> 12:37.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: But at that point, the military moved in from two different directions.
[12:39.390 --> 12:56.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: When they converged, just before they converged, we decided, if we were to stand in front, that Western journalists could possibly deter the violence, we could act as a shield, that the Indonesians would be less likely to shoot where we were, sadly speaking.
[12:56.570 --> 13:02.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: When they came up to us, they immediately started beating me.
[13:02.450 --> 13:11.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: I told my ninth state reporter and told everything off to me, and then beat me with rifle guns and fists and boots, and did the same with Alan.
[13:12.070 --> 13:19.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: At the same time, there was a group of soldiers who were, began firing on a fleeing crowd.
[13:19.970 --> 13:23.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: People screaming, running in the other direction.
[13:24.110 --> 13:26.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: Dozens of them, they were killed.
[13:26.470 --> 13:29.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Amy, can we just restate this quite clearly?
[13:29.190 --> 13:36.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: There was no provocation at all from the crowd towards the military, because this is obviously the version we have from the Indonesian military.
[13:37.110 --> 13:44.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: At this point, there were the people, as they had been two weeks before, who were in a demonstration and a procession.
[13:44.750 --> 13:49.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: And they were chanting, Be the Sebastiao, Be the East Timor, just like they had.
[13:50.610 --> 13:57.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: But this time, the difference was, the Indonesian military moved in and fired on us.
[13:57.590 --> 13:59.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: There was no Timorese weapons there.
[13:59.830 --> 14:01.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: There was nobody throwing things at them.
[14:01.830 --> 14:03.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: We were at the front, so we were in between both.
[14:04.150 --> 14:05.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: We were there.
[14:06.390 --> 14:08.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: Nothing was coming from that side.
[14:08.070 --> 14:20.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: There are some reports that this incident happened because the Indonesian military wanted to intimidate the population in advance of the planned Portuguese mission, which was supposed to come to East Timor.
[14:20.750 --> 14:33.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I think that the difference is not so much how the Indonesian military stayed, because after all, since 1975, close to a third of the population has been killed.
[14:33.630 --> 14:34.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is not so different.
[14:35.310 --> 14:40.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: The difference is with the fact that the Portuguese delegation didn't come when it said it would.
[14:41.050 --> 14:42.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: The people were in despair.
[14:42.810 --> 14:51.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: They were waiting for this delegation to report human rights views, despite the fact that they had been terrorized everywhere we went in the country.
[14:51.870 --> 14:57.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: We heard stories of the military calling meetings saying that people would be killed if they spoke to the Portuguese delegation.
[14:58.090 --> 15:02.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: But the people are at a point where they are willing to talk.
[15:02.790 --> 15:03.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, clearly, they were willing.
[15:04.430 --> 15:05.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: They were looking forward.
[15:05.770 --> 15:07.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: They thought this was their only hope.
[15:07.770 --> 15:12.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it was that frustration and despair that it didn't change the military anything.
[15:13.110 --> 15:14.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: It changed the people.
[15:14.250 --> 15:19.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: It made them willing to do something as dangerous and have a demonstration.
[15:19.910 --> 15:25.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: You would say that it is very important that as many foreign delegations as possible go there.
[15:25.410 --> 15:32.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: It seems that the most important thing right now is that this is an extremely dangerous situation.
[15:32.330 --> 15:38.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: We heard bullet shots well beyond the time of that demonstration at 8 o'clock in the morning.
[15:38.850 --> 15:40.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: We don't know what's happening right now.
[15:40.830 --> 15:45.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right now, I think the most important thing is that the United Nations move.
[15:46.430 --> 15:48.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: The UN Security Council has to do something.
[15:48.690 --> 15:50.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: There has to be a peacekeeping force.
[15:50.570 --> 15:54.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: It is a very, very dangerous situation.
[15:55.490 --> 15:59.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: American journalist Amy Goodman speaking from an hospital in Guam.
[16:00.130 --> 16:00.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Cambodia.
[16:06.660 --> 16:11.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, as mentioned, that was Amy Goodman, our own Amy Goodman over in East Timor.
[16:12.600 --> 16:18.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, as mentioned earlier, she's on her way back to New York and hopefully will be here within a couple of days.
[16:20.120 --> 16:23.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Stay tuned for Pacifica News at 11 o'clock rebroadcast.
[16:23.940 --> 16:27.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: There will be another interview with Amy that is also quite good.
[16:27.960 --> 16:28.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: That came from the BBC.
[16:28.840 --> 16:31.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was monitored here at WBAI.
[16:32.080 --> 16:36.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: It just goes to show the kind of things that go on in this place.
[16:37.000 --> 16:39.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Get involved in just about everything that's happening out there.
[16:41.720 --> 16:53.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, we're going to be taking phone calls in just a couple of moments here at Off The Hook, where we talk about high-tech telephones, computers, and, yeah, sometimes shortwave radio as well.
[16:53.380 --> 17:00.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: First, a couple of news items from The Risks Digest, one of our favorite publications that we quote from.
[17:01.440 --> 17:03.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: This comes from Neil Strauss.
[17:03.500 --> 17:13.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: I recently used a telephone at a customer of ours, somebody that services various people, I guess, to call my office voicemail.
[17:13.540 --> 17:19.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Voicemail, in case you don't know, is sort of like an answering machine, except you can call it from any place.
[17:20.080 --> 17:23.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Lots and lots of people share the same voicemail system.
[17:25.160 --> 17:32.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: This phone had an LED display which echoed every button I pressed from the time the handset was raised until I hung up.
[17:32.480 --> 17:37.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Kind of like one of those alternate pay phones where you enter the numbers and you see them on the screen.
[17:38.720 --> 17:43.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, this resulted in my voicemail password being prominently displayed to any passing individual.
[17:44.530 --> 17:53.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: The risks of my voicemail being compromised are relatively small, but the same type of compromise would have occurred if I had been using a telephone credit card.
[17:54.660 --> 18:05.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: I learned after completing the call that there is a button on the phone which will prevent button presses from echoing, but this button was not clearly labeled and could not be used by an uneducated user.
[18:08.600 --> 18:18.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: The most logical approach to a status display on a phone is to echo the phone number to prevent wrong numbers, and then inhibit echoing after the call has been connected.
[18:20.140 --> 18:26.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: I also wonder if a phone that displays my keystrokes may not also be recording them somewhere for accounting purposes.
[18:26.180 --> 18:27.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's a very good point there.
[18:28.760 --> 18:33.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've stayed in the hotels where they record every digit you dial.
[18:33.920 --> 18:37.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you use your calling card, they record those numbers.
[18:37.400 --> 18:43.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: That means if they're unscrupulous, they have your calling card and they can use it if they wanted to.
[18:43.720 --> 18:48.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: They can also use any other touch tone that you might happen to pass through their switchboard.
[18:49.640 --> 18:52.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: For voicemail, for banking by phone, you name it.
[18:53.440 --> 18:54.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's all in there, so...
[18:55.640 --> 18:56.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: Something to be aware of.
[18:56.920 --> 19:02.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, we were talking last week about homes getting too hot.
[19:02.820 --> 19:05.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, those computerized thermostats that just don't know when to quit.
[19:06.420 --> 19:12.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, someone else wrote in with a problem involving ovens.
[19:12.420 --> 19:15.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is from Jane Beckman, also from the Risks Digest.
[19:16.640 --> 19:22.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: Seeing the recent discussion of furnace thermostats going haywire reminded me of a recent problem a friend had with her oven.
[19:23.300 --> 19:30.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's right, her stove is one of those modern models with electronically regulated oven temperature control, digital readouts, all works.
[19:31.030 --> 19:34.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: And these things are great until something goes wrong.
[19:35.880 --> 19:38.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: She was making some cookies.
[19:39.580 --> 19:43.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: And when she took them out, she thought it was weird.
[19:44.290 --> 19:48.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: That they were black and charred beyond recognition.
[19:49.820 --> 19:51.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: The timing was right.
[19:52.900 --> 19:56.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: But the oven temperature seemed to be way too high.
[19:57.920 --> 20:07.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: She turned off the oven and didn't think a thing about it until she put a casserole inside the oven a couple of days later.
[20:11.080 --> 20:15.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: The casserole seemed to be cooking too fast.
[20:15.500 --> 20:17.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: The oven was like a blast furnace.
[20:17.740 --> 20:23.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: And yet, the stove told her everything was fine.
[20:25.540 --> 20:31.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, she decided to turn off the oven.
[20:38.930 --> 20:42.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the oven spoke to her and said, Why are you doing this?
[20:43.430 --> 20:44.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm afraid, Jane.
[20:47.290 --> 20:48.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: The oven would not...
[20:48.890 --> 20:51.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, I'm elaborating a little bit here.
[20:51.370 --> 20:52.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: The oven would not turn off.
[20:54.670 --> 20:59.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: For the next couple of hours, she tried to turn off the oven to no avail.
[21:01.650 --> 21:04.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: The kitchen was getting pretty warm by then, in more ways than one.
[21:05.410 --> 21:08.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: The final solution to this was to turn off the gas to the stove.
[21:09.830 --> 21:11.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: She called the repairman.
[21:11.250 --> 21:16.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: And when he came out and evaluated the problem, it turned out some vital piece of electronics had shorted out.
[21:16.630 --> 21:22.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the cost of replacement was $200, which was a sizable chunk of the price of the stove.
[21:26.080 --> 21:31.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: She seriously discussed simply replacing the stove with a $400 non-electronic stove.
[21:32.660 --> 21:35.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: For fear of this happening again, but...
[21:35.180 --> 21:37.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Finally broke down and had it fixed.
[21:38.160 --> 21:42.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: She's had other problems since, with the temperature not being what the sensors think it is.
[21:43.640 --> 21:44.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, uh...
[21:45.400 --> 21:47.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: No point getting into all that.
[21:49.420 --> 21:51.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's, uh, pretty much, uh...
[21:52.180 --> 21:54.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: The news that's circulating in the, uh...
[21:55.260 --> 21:58.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: World of electronics and computers and phones and that kind of thing.
[21:59.320 --> 22:00.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, one other thing.
[22:00.640 --> 22:02.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: One thing that we do want to, uh, update you on.
[22:03.120 --> 22:05.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Since we talked about this, I believe, two weeks ago.
[22:05.680 --> 22:06.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Remember the, uh...
[22:07.120 --> 22:09.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: 1-800-FRIENDS service?
[22:09.400 --> 22:10.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, if you weren't here for that.
[22:11.380 --> 22:12.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was, um...
[22:12.460 --> 22:14.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: A service that MCI was offering.
[22:15.060 --> 22:16.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: For people that, um...
[22:16.880 --> 22:19.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Subscribe to their friends and family circle service.
[22:19.640 --> 22:22.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: And what the friends and family circle service basically is, is...
[22:23.180 --> 22:23.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh...
[22:23.440 --> 22:24.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: A way that you can save money.
[22:24.780 --> 22:31.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you call somebody, say a friend or a family member, That also has selected MCI as their long distance phone company.
[22:31.940 --> 22:34.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can have them added to your list.
[22:34.480 --> 22:37.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: And every time you call them, you'll save 20%.
[22:37.460 --> 22:38.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good deal, huh?
[22:39.180 --> 22:39.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but...
[22:39.960 --> 22:41.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: The question came up.
[22:41.440 --> 22:43.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, how do I know who's on my list?
[22:43.320 --> 22:48.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: How can I check and make sure that, you know, Cousin Gertrude is on my particular calling list?
[22:48.860 --> 22:51.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, the geniuses at MCI had a solution for this.
[22:51.800 --> 22:53.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: They had an 800 number that, uh...
[22:53.680 --> 22:55.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: That you could call up...
[22:55.040 --> 22:56.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh...
[22:57.540 --> 22:58.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Actually...
[22:58.020 --> 22:59.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Get this information.
[23:01.800 --> 23:05.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, to get this information, of course, you would have to enter your phone number.
[23:08.480 --> 23:15.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: And for security purposes, to make sure it was really you, you entered your zip code.
[23:16.660 --> 23:25.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we were able to literally guess some phone numbers and zip codes, and listen to a full listing of people's phone numbers that they were calling.
[23:26.360 --> 23:28.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, these could be unlisted phone numbers.
[23:28.300 --> 23:29.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: They could be, uh...
[23:29.340 --> 23:30.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: All kinds of things you don't want to get out.
[23:30.980 --> 23:34.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: We were able to call up and access this, simply because we knew the phone number and we guessed the zip code.
[23:34.940 --> 23:37.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: When you have a phone number, it's not too hard to get the zip code.
[23:38.680 --> 23:39.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, uh...
[23:39.240 --> 23:40.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: We were able to do that.
[23:40.280 --> 23:45.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: And not only were we able to get the phone numbers, but we were also able to get the relationship of the person to the, uh...
[23:45.800 --> 23:46.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: The number that we had.
[23:47.060 --> 23:53.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: For instance, it would say, your wife at this number, your brother-in-law at this number, your business associate, et cetera, et cetera.
[23:53.420 --> 23:55.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, something has changed.
[23:56.580 --> 23:58.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, as our friend the dial tone, we're going to, uh...
[24:00.020 --> 24:00.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Call up...
[24:00.900 --> 24:03.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: This particular number one more time.
[24:03.680 --> 24:06.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: And show you what, uh...
[24:07.060 --> 24:08.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: A little, uh...
[24:08.720 --> 24:11.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Publicity on a New York City radio station can do.
[24:12.280 --> 24:13.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Take a listen to this.
[24:13.320 --> 24:15.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: The new MCI friend service.
[24:15.900 --> 24:19.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Welcome to MCI's friends and family circle update line.
[24:20.100 --> 24:23.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Please enter your telephone number, beginning with your area code.
[24:23.860 --> 24:25.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, we're going to do that, but of course, uh...
[24:25.920 --> 24:28.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're not going to let you hear the actual number that we're entering.
[24:30.080 --> 24:30.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sorry.
[24:30.700 --> 24:31.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
[24:35.750 --> 24:38.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: One moment, please, while we access your account.
[24:44.880 --> 24:49.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Congratulations, and thank you for being one of our valued friends and family customers.
[24:50.420 --> 24:56.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Your calling circle consists of four members and two nominees.
[24:58.420 --> 25:05.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you would like to inquire about a specific member or nominee to your calling circle, press one.
[25:05.480 --> 25:12.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: To hear the status of all members and nominees in your calling circle, you will need your MCI account number.
[25:12.460 --> 25:17.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: This number can be found on the MCI portion of your telephone bill.
[25:17.620 --> 25:22.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you do not know your account number, please hold for an MCI representative.
[25:23.360 --> 25:26.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you have your account number available, press two.
[25:29.280 --> 25:37.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, since I have no idea who that phone number belongs to, I don't have the account number.
[25:37.540 --> 25:38.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: I could make a guess, I suppose.
[25:38.620 --> 25:42.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: But they said that if you don't have the account number, stay on the line.
[25:42.300 --> 25:44.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: An MCI person will probably tell you what the account number is.
[25:44.720 --> 25:50.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: So it's not entirely uncrackable, but it's a little bit better.
[25:50.520 --> 25:51.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: A little bit better.
[25:52.020 --> 25:53.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I guess that's about the best we can hope for.
[25:54.360 --> 25:58.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: So that's the update on the MCI Friends situation.
[25:58.440 --> 26:04.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you have a similar type of a number or some other scandal you'd like to share with us, feel free to send it in to Off The Hook.
[26:04.980 --> 26:13.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Care of WBAI 505, 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
[26:15.480 --> 26:17.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we'll be taking phone calls now.
[26:17.380 --> 26:19.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: 212-279-3400.
[26:19.180 --> 26:21.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, we have fiber optic in the studio.
[26:22.360 --> 26:23.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hacker extraordinaire.
[26:23.240 --> 26:25.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: If I can figure out what microphone you're on.
[26:25.720 --> 26:26.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Try that one.
[26:27.080 --> 26:28.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, listeners.
[26:28.580 --> 26:29.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I don't think that's the one.
[26:29.620 --> 26:30.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's try this one.
[26:31.400 --> 26:32.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, listeners.
[26:32.280 --> 26:32.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, no.
[26:33.120 --> 26:34.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think I got it now.
[26:34.300 --> 26:34.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead.
[26:34.880 --> 26:35.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hello, listeners.
[26:35.360 --> 26:35.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's the one.
[26:35.980 --> 26:36.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: There we are.
[26:37.520 --> 26:38.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Fiber optic is a...
[26:38.980 --> 26:42.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you might have seen him on several TV shows recently.
[26:43.680 --> 26:49.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: But we won't get into that because, you know, publicity is something that is a sore subject among hackers.
[26:50.720 --> 26:52.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad.
[26:52.160 --> 26:53.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: And recently it hasn't been all that great.
[26:54.840 --> 27:00.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: But if you have any questions for hackers in general, give us a call.
[27:00.760 --> 27:06.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we'll be happy to help you out with various privacy issues and other things.
[27:06.380 --> 27:10.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can ask personal questions about, you know, hackers, what they do when they're not hacking.
[27:11.120 --> 27:11.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right?
[27:11.540 --> 27:13.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you don't mind talking about that kind of thing, do you?
[27:13.340 --> 27:13.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, sure.
[27:13.820 --> 27:14.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're people too.
[27:14.440 --> 27:15.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[27:15.320 --> 27:18.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: A lot of people don't realize that is that hackers are people.
[27:18.740 --> 27:20.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think you said it very well.
[27:20.260 --> 27:22.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, let's take some phone calls here.
[27:22.540 --> 27:23.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good evening.
[27:23.240 --> 27:24.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're our first phone call.
[27:24.580 --> 27:25.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's too good.
[27:27.200 --> 27:27.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hello?
[27:28.000 --> 27:28.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: Daniel?
[27:28.640 --> 27:29.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, go ahead.
[27:29.240 --> 27:33.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I want to ask you a couple of things from last week's show.
[27:35.160 --> 27:36.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: 2600 Magazine.
[27:36.480 --> 27:39.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: What's their phone number and how can you get in touch with them?
[27:39.700 --> 27:40.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, I'll give you the phone number.
[27:40.980 --> 27:45.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's area code 516-751-2600.
[27:46.540 --> 27:46.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[27:47.260 --> 27:49.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that should give you all the information you need if you call that number.
[27:49.960 --> 27:55.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: The next one, you were talking with someone last week about a magazine called Security Dealer, which is my field.
[27:56.480 --> 27:58.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Do you have an address for them?
[27:58.480 --> 28:00.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, you know, I don't have an address for that.
[28:00.480 --> 28:07.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: For that, I would suggest going downtown to either Hudson News or Tower Books, because they have just about every magazine under the sun.
[28:07.520 --> 28:08.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hudson News?
[28:08.840 --> 28:10.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's on Broadway.
[28:10.440 --> 28:10.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[28:11.100 --> 28:11.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Try them out.
[28:11.900 --> 28:13.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Ask them if they've ever heard of it.
[28:13.680 --> 28:15.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: And just keep asking around.
[28:15.180 --> 28:16.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: If and when you find out.
[28:16.500 --> 28:21.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: And if somebody out there perhaps knows the address or the number for the security dealer, right?
[28:22.020 --> 28:22.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[28:22.300 --> 28:27.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, give us a call and we'll be happy to pass that information along, because I'd sure like to see that myself.
[28:28.000 --> 28:28.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[28:28.540 --> 28:31.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now they were talking also about this emergency 24.
[28:32.060 --> 28:32.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: About which?
[28:33.040 --> 28:34.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: The emergency 24 number.
[28:36.120 --> 28:37.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: The 800 number.
[28:37.540 --> 28:37.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[28:38.160 --> 28:38.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[28:38.620 --> 28:39.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: We mentioned that last week.
[28:39.880 --> 28:42.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: What is that service about?
[28:42.540 --> 28:45.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're talking about 800-282-0911, right?
[28:45.640 --> 28:46.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's correct.
[28:46.060 --> 28:50.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not quite sure what the service is, because I just tried calling them a little while ago and there was no answer.
[28:50.500 --> 28:54.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, if it's an emergency service, I don't think I'd like to use them for emergencies.
[28:54.820 --> 28:55.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Long time.
[28:55.360 --> 28:56.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: They do answer.
[28:56.400 --> 28:56.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[28:56.820 --> 28:58.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: It rings a very long time.
[28:58.340 --> 28:58.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, okay.
[28:59.120 --> 29:02.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: But if it has anything to do with emergencies, you don't want it to ring a very long time.
[29:02.460 --> 29:02.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
[29:03.180 --> 29:03.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[29:03.400 --> 29:04.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the last question.
[29:04.780 --> 29:06.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: What's the number for internet?
[29:06.880 --> 29:07.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, okay.
[29:07.540 --> 29:08.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that's...
[29:08.260 --> 29:10.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe I'll give that one to fiber optic here.
[29:10.280 --> 29:11.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can probably explain it better than me.
[29:11.620 --> 29:11.900]  Okay.
[29:11.900 --> 29:12.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[29:12.720 --> 29:16.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, internet isn't exactly directly accessible through the phone lines.
[29:17.000 --> 29:25.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: But what it is is a worldwide computer network consisting of government agencies, universities, et cetera, and so forth.
[29:25.740 --> 29:32.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you might want to inquire at your local university or campus about being able to obtain an account if one is such available.
[29:33.500 --> 29:34.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[29:34.180 --> 29:40.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's worth actually taking a course to get an internet account, such as at NYU or Columbia or something like that.
[29:41.360 --> 29:44.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that way, you'll have a link literally to the whole world.
[29:45.160 --> 29:45.240]  Right.
[29:45.540 --> 29:50.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, maybe we could give an example as to what people can do with an internet account.
[29:50.520 --> 29:50.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.
[29:51.000 --> 29:52.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: As opposed to, say, a CompuServe account.
[29:52.940 --> 29:53.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[29:53.220 --> 29:55.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can do a lot more with access to the internet.
[29:55.580 --> 30:01.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: You would have access to a wide variety of corporations that deal in software development.
[30:01.600 --> 30:06.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: And there's a lot of archive sites out there where you could transfer files to and from the site.
[30:07.080 --> 30:11.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: And a lot of them are specifically geared towards a certain type or model of computer.
[30:12.320 --> 30:15.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: And besides that, you can also engage in electronic mail.
[30:15.800 --> 30:19.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you'd be able to be in contact with people throughout the entire planet.
[30:19.980 --> 30:22.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: on an instantaneous basis.
[30:23.100 --> 30:23.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.
[30:23.460 --> 30:25.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've had chats with people in Holland.
[30:26.220 --> 30:31.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's, you know, it's live as they're speaking to you, you're speaking to them.
[30:31.480 --> 30:36.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's not costly either because it's, you know, the internet is part of the educational system.
[30:36.760 --> 30:38.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Pretty good.
[30:38.280 --> 30:38.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[30:38.720 --> 30:39.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks very much.
[30:39.160 --> 30:41.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is my contribution tonight.
[30:41.340 --> 30:41.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[30:41.960 --> 30:42.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for calling.
[30:42.920 --> 30:43.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[30:44.340 --> 30:44.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[30:45.060 --> 30:45.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good evening.
[30:45.720 --> 30:46.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[30:46.500 --> 30:47.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, first turn on your radio.
[30:47.780 --> 30:48.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hello.
[30:49.700 --> 30:50.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, boy.
[30:51.140 --> 30:51.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here we go.
[30:52.500 --> 30:53.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here's the situation.
[30:54.140 --> 30:55.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Last week...
[30:55.060 --> 30:57.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: By the way, I enjoy the program very much.
[30:57.220 --> 30:57.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, thank you.
[30:57.700 --> 31:07.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Last week, you talked about dumping or putting some information from a computer on a telephone line over a 24-hour period.
[31:08.060 --> 31:08.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[31:08.520 --> 31:08.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[31:08.920 --> 31:14.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Last week, for the listeners, I was downloading something as I was on the air for over 24 hours.
[31:14.780 --> 31:19.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'd copied files from Australia over the internet to a local system and was downloading them over the phone lines.
[31:19.580 --> 31:26.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I had done it in such a way that it was all for the price of a local phone call, which was untimed, cost me about 10 cents for the whole deal.
[31:26.920 --> 31:29.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, that's a residential line, right?
[31:29.900 --> 31:30.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[31:30.280 --> 31:33.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: You couldn't do it on a business line because those calls are timed.
[31:33.660 --> 31:34.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, they are timed.
[31:34.800 --> 31:40.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: A business call is timed, but a local call would not be as much, obviously, as a long-distance one, even for that.
[31:40.460 --> 31:44.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, I was troubled by that in this respect.
[31:45.260 --> 31:56.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Some years ago, there was a whole movement in the PSC, especially headed by Alfred Kahn, who was the Public Service Commission chairman.
[31:57.260 --> 32:01.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: And his concept was usage-sensitive rates.
[32:02.260 --> 32:15.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what he wanted to do was replace the untimed message unit, which, by the way, is very pertinent to New York City, where you have no flat rate service of any merit, you know.
[32:18.200 --> 32:20.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: And he wanted to time these calls.
[32:20.760 --> 32:27.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you were on for five minutes, you pay double, over five minutes, you pay double and triple and so forth every five minutes.
[32:28.800 --> 32:38.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: We had a whole statewide movement to set the commissioner or the chairman a little straight on this.
[32:38.740 --> 32:46.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: And he did come around and say, okay, you can keep your runtime message unit, but you have to pay extra.
[32:46.260 --> 32:53.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: But if you have your calls timed, we'll give you a lower rate and a lower cost per call.
[32:55.520 --> 32:56.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what I'm afraid...
[32:56.940 --> 33:23.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: One of the objections or one of the excuses for this was specifically that people with computers, because this was back in 1974, 75, could take advantage of the system cause, you know, by using and tying up a telephone line for days, it could put an unusual burden on the central office.
[33:24.020 --> 33:31.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I can guarantee that even if there were 100 people doing exactly what I was doing at that particular moment, it would not be causing a strain.
[33:31.360 --> 33:35.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: We've advanced technology to the stage where we can handle that kind of capacity.
[33:35.400 --> 33:39.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's precisely why we shouldn't be paying huge amounts and paying every single minute for it.
[33:40.180 --> 33:47.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, there comes a time where it balances out, where the system has paid for itself, and where you should start reaping the benefits of the system.
[33:47.300 --> 33:47.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[33:47.960 --> 33:49.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm just concerned...
[33:49.300 --> 33:59.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm very active before the Public Service Commission, and I'm just concerned that they may reinstitute their drive to...
[33:59.400 --> 34:07.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, they're trying to drive people off flat rate service in the rest of the New York telephone area by pricing the things sky-high.
[34:07.740 --> 34:14.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: An example is if you're in Buffalo, you pay about $25 for flat rate service.
[34:14.940 --> 34:21.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you're in California or in the biggest city like Los Angeles, you pay about $8,000.
[34:22.700 --> 34:25.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: So they don't like people on flat rate service.
[34:25.860 --> 34:29.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you know, I pay a fair amount for flat rate service, but I'm, you know...
[34:29.980 --> 34:36.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah, you pay a fair amount, but compared to what's going on in the rest of the country, the New York rates are much higher.
[34:37.560 --> 34:56.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the big point was that in New York City, where you're stuck with message rate calling and no alternative except for small pockets in Queens and Staten Island, we got to protect that unlimited call, mainly for the, you know, residential subscribers,
[34:56.240 --> 35:18.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: because the hue and cry was tremendous when they talked about raising the, when they talked about timing the message units and senior citizens groups and volunteers who help the, you know, people who call up shut-ins and things like that, felt that this would just price them out of existence.
[35:18.880 --> 35:20.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, let me just say one thing, though.
[35:20.840 --> 35:20.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[35:20.980 --> 35:26.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: You never get what you want out of something by being overly cautious about it.
[35:26.600 --> 35:30.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: You've got to reach out and take what you believe you have the right to do.
[35:30.800 --> 35:32.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that's what we're talking about here.
[35:33.140 --> 35:35.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: A good example is bulletin boards.
[35:35.480 --> 35:46.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right now there's moves, as there have always been, you know, rumblings of some kind of an idea by phone companies to charge extra for, for lines that are used for bulletin boards.
[35:47.500 --> 35:54.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Had we gone about it, you know, asking the phone company, well, what is, what is best here?
[35:54.220 --> 35:56.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: What, you know, what do you want to do?
[35:56.580 --> 35:57.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: What do we want to get out of it?
[35:58.040 --> 36:01.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Obviously we will be, we would be paying more at this particular point in time.
[36:01.700 --> 36:05.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: But instead what has happened is we've reached out and we've done it anyway.
[36:05.480 --> 36:06.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: We've used bulletin boards.
[36:06.920 --> 36:12.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, we've, we've used phone lines for, for modem connections left and right over the past, uh, couple of decades.
[36:13.340 --> 36:17.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: And now we're used to it and we're not going to give it up because we're used to it.
[36:17.300 --> 36:22.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're used to, uh, having the same rights for a data call as we are for a voice call.
[36:22.340 --> 36:28.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, had we gone about it in a, in a more cautious way, it's very likely that the phone companies could have had their way.
[36:28.100 --> 36:33.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: What I'm saying is, if you have the capability to, to do something with technology, do it.
[36:33.960 --> 36:40.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, you know, place the onus on the phone company or whatever other company to make you change.
[36:41.640 --> 36:49.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: But don't make it the other way around where, you know, it's the phone company is, is the status quo and you've got to change them because that rarely works.
[36:50.280 --> 37:09.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: We, uh, recently, uh, in a New York rate case, uh, made the big point that the technological changes, uh, uh, were, uh, made it, made it unnecessary really to, uh, spend the money of putting people on measured service, which is an extra cost.
[37:09.580 --> 37:22.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: And to, uh, when they're on message service, you have to go into things like, uh, if they say, well, it was something wrong and I didn't make 350, uh, message units this month, that kind of thing.
[37:22.940 --> 37:23.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[37:23.520 --> 37:28.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, you, you, uh, have to have personnel or the phone company involved in arguing those things and so forth.
[37:29.160 --> 37:40.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: And meanwhile, people who are active in their communities, uh, uh, find themselves, it's very expensive to be active in your community where you have to pay for each call.
[37:40.480 --> 37:50.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, whereas if you were in another state, uh, uh, where you had a different public service commission, you would have flat rate service at reasonable rate.
[37:50.620 --> 37:52.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: The rules are different just about every place you go.
[37:52.560 --> 37:54.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it brings up another sore point with me.
[37:55.000 --> 37:57.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Nonprofit organizations, why don't they get nonprofit phone rates?
[37:57.740 --> 37:59.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: They pay the same business rates as everybody else.
[38:00.080 --> 38:00.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: It doesn't make sense to me.
[38:01.740 --> 38:02.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Listen, sir, thanks very much for calling.
[38:02.980 --> 38:04.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: I want to get to some more phone calls.
[38:04.780 --> 38:04.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[38:05.920 --> 38:07.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: 279-3400 is our phone number.
[38:07.600 --> 38:07.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good evening.
[38:08.880 --> 38:09.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Manuel?
[38:09.540 --> 38:10.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, go ahead.
[38:10.200 --> 38:10.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[38:10.880 --> 38:11.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: How are you doing?
[38:11.740 --> 38:12.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just fine.
[38:12.260 --> 38:12.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: How are you?
[38:12.620 --> 38:12.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[38:12.840 --> 38:15.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: I got a quick telephone question for you.
[38:15.340 --> 38:15.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[38:15.760 --> 38:19.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: I have a copy of Radio Shack's Understanding Telephone Electronics.
[38:19.600 --> 38:21.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's the, um, 6th printing came out in...
[38:30.210 --> 38:31.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Came out in 1987?
[38:31.930 --> 38:32.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[38:32.190 --> 38:32.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's pretty dated.
[38:33.290 --> 38:34.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: A lot has changed since 1987.
[38:35.010 --> 38:35.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: A lot has changed, huh?
[38:35.910 --> 38:38.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I suggest you pick up a new edition of that.
[38:38.310 --> 38:38.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: New edition?
[38:39.030 --> 38:40.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: I assume it comes out every year, does it not?
[38:40.750 --> 38:43.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I picked this up used for a buck, so I don't do that.
[38:43.310 --> 38:45.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, now you know why things sell for a buck.
[38:45.250 --> 38:53.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, well, what I would suggest you do is get the new one and compare all the bits of information, because, I mean, you know, anything in there is probably wrong by now.
[38:53.210 --> 38:57.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, the names of phone companies, for instance, you know, they've changed.
[38:57.470 --> 38:57.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[38:57.890 --> 38:58.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, basically...
[38:58.130 --> 38:59.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: The way you make phone calls has changed.
[39:00.310 --> 39:07.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: Not dramatically, but there are all kinds of different things to do now, and technology has advanced a lot in four years.
[39:07.170 --> 39:09.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, this is a basic electronics.
[39:09.210 --> 39:15.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, telephone system, conventional telephone set, electronic speech circuits, et cetera, digital transmission techniques.
[39:15.350 --> 39:15.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[39:15.610 --> 39:16.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: The basics aren't going to change.
[39:17.150 --> 39:17.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[39:17.410 --> 39:18.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, these are the basics.
[39:18.450 --> 39:19.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think that's what this covers.
[39:20.330 --> 39:23.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: If that's the entire thing the book covers, I thought it covered a little bit more than that.
[39:23.470 --> 39:27.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: It goes from the telephone system all the way up to wireless telephones, modems, network transmissions.
[39:28.010 --> 39:29.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, it's almost a textbook.
[39:29.770 --> 39:31.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's written by a pair of engineering professors.
[39:32.510 --> 39:35.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, I mean, knowing that, do you still think it's stated?
[39:35.090 --> 39:35.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: Dated.
[39:35.390 --> 39:36.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: What do you think, Fiber?
[39:36.390 --> 39:37.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is this the Red Book?
[39:37.810 --> 39:39.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is the Red Book.
[39:39.350 --> 39:39.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[39:39.890 --> 39:40.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: It is the Red Book.
[39:40.810 --> 39:42.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, the book is slightly dated, if you notice.
[39:43.350 --> 39:46.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, a lot of it is good, and it's still up to date in many respects.
[39:46.710 --> 39:46.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[39:47.170 --> 39:56.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: But in the section about switching systems, they only go so far as to mention the number one electronic switching system from AT&T, which is incredibly dated.
[39:56.450 --> 39:57.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: It doesn't even go really in...
[39:57.870 --> 40:02.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: It goes into digital communications, but it doesn't specifically go into digital switches, per se.
[40:02.230 --> 40:04.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that's a lot more dated than 1987, isn't it?
[40:04.270 --> 40:04.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah.
[40:05.990 --> 40:06.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[40:06.530 --> 40:10.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: It came out in 1987, but I guess I want to get into this more.
[40:10.230 --> 40:11.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sort of ignorant of it.
[40:11.570 --> 40:13.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: I guess I should get a more recent copy, then.
[40:14.010 --> 40:14.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it would be a good idea.
[40:15.010 --> 40:27.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: And also, in the mobile telephone section that's incredibly old, they went into cellular, but if I remember, at the point of the printing of that book, cell sites were still only at 666 cells per site, and currently we're at 832.
[40:28.330 --> 40:34.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: So you'll notice that the section on mobile telephone service is, in many respects, dated.
[40:34.550 --> 40:34.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: Really?
[40:35.670 --> 40:36.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[40:36.210 --> 40:38.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, I'm not disappointed, because as I said, I really don't know much about it.
[40:39.050 --> 40:43.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I've had it lying around for a little while, and I wasn't sure whether it was worth the buck.
[40:44.050 --> 40:45.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I'm sure I could always resell it.
[40:45.490 --> 40:46.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it was probably worth a dollar.
[40:47.050 --> 40:47.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[40:48.010 --> 40:49.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, at any rate, I'll let you go.
[40:49.350 --> 40:49.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks a lot.
[40:49.890 --> 40:50.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for your call.
[40:50.510 --> 40:50.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bye.
[40:52.010 --> 40:52.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good evening.
[40:53.150 --> 40:53.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[40:53.970 --> 40:54.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: How are you doing?
[40:54.350 --> 40:59.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: I just wanted to comment on one of your stories that you talked about, the ID cards in Germany.
[40:59.970 --> 41:01.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: The German cards, yeah.
[41:01.170 --> 41:01.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[41:02.730 --> 41:10.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: In general, in listening to your show, which I usually do if I have the time, I usually agree with you, but on this one, I don't agree with you.
[41:10.370 --> 41:18.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: I personally support the idea of identity cards in the U.S., and the main reason...
[41:18.350 --> 41:35.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, one argument I could make in favor of it is, you mentioned the business of Germany, obviously Germany's past, and using these lists to... or using the information to produce lists of people by whatever characteristic, ethnic background, or whatever.
[41:35.150 --> 41:39.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: First of all, I would say that the U.S.
[41:39.830 --> 41:48.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: government and various state governments have information that would be adequate if you cross-referenced various files to produce very similar types of lists.
[41:48.730 --> 41:52.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, the facility, the capability is right here in the U.S.
[41:53.390 --> 41:54.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: without identity cards.
[41:54.850 --> 42:01.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: The plus to identity cards is, first of all, you have the identity card in your possession.
[42:01.230 --> 42:07.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not something that's going to be accessed by somebody without your knowledge, like certain information can be.
[42:09.210 --> 42:26.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: You hand it to, presumably, you know, let's say a police officer or some official who can check on whether, let's say, you are, for instance, an escaped Nazi, if you want to talk about the use of it, or some other criminal.
[42:26.830 --> 42:30.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: In other words, it can be used in apprehending criminals.
[42:30.910 --> 42:31.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, of course...
[42:31.630 --> 42:34.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that that's, you know, a big plus for it.
[42:34.270 --> 42:38.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: Of course, you know, you can find positive aspects for these kind of things.
[42:38.230 --> 42:40.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can say, you'll find missing children and all that.
[42:40.370 --> 42:48.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: The particular point with the German cards, though, it's not so much the card itself as the fact that the data is obviously being stored someplace else and can be accessed.
[42:48.590 --> 42:54.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: And when you make it a law to carry a card, you're saying, if you do not have a card, you're a criminal.
[42:54.590 --> 42:57.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: You don't, you know, you are breaking a law if you do not have this card.
[42:57.990 --> 43:01.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: And imagine if you were, and I'm not saying they're anywhere close to doing this.
[43:01.790 --> 43:07.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm just saying we're, you know, we're making technology now that could be used in some future era in a bad way.
[43:07.610 --> 43:09.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we've got to, we've got to watch out for that.
[43:09.130 --> 43:23.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: But if, if somebody was on a list, say that, you know, that, that Turks or Bulgarians were, were, you know, people that were being sought after and hunted down like, like, you know, animals, they could not hide, they could not throw away their ID card,
[43:23.230 --> 43:25.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: because if they do that, then they're criminals for not having ID cards.
[43:25.910 --> 43:28.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: And if they have them, then obviously they're who they say they are.
[43:28.970 --> 43:31.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, the only thing you can do is make a fake one.
[43:31.110 --> 43:32.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's extremely hard.
[43:32.270 --> 43:33.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: They're very sophisticated systems.
[43:33.750 --> 43:34.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's like making a fake passport.
[43:34.790 --> 43:43.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: I would assume that they're, they're linking into some computer system where they have, let's say, a magnetic tape in the back and they could, you know, I mean, you can't just fake an identity card.
[43:43.850 --> 43:46.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: I would assume, I mean, I don't know the details of the system.
[43:46.690 --> 43:47.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, um...
[43:47.530 --> 43:52.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: The thing is, when you start categorizing and listing people, the potential for abuse is, is extraordinary.
[43:52.890 --> 43:54.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you've got to be very careful about that.
[43:54.390 --> 43:57.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, but don't you, don't you agree that in the U.S.
[43:57.210 --> 44:10.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: right now, let's say the census data, there's census data that is kept, which has name, address, and ethnic background and that sort of thing, which supposedly is to be used only for statistical analysis, blah, blah, blah.
[44:10.610 --> 44:22.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: But let's face it, if you have an unscrupulous person in, who has access to that kind of data, they can, they can get the same kind of information that, that's available through the identity card.
[44:22.570 --> 44:23.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: Don't you think that's correct?
[44:23.790 --> 44:29.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: Except for the fact that it's not a law for you to have a particular kind of ID on you at all times.
[44:29.270 --> 44:29.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[44:29.870 --> 44:30.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's a big difference.
[44:31.050 --> 44:31.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[44:31.650 --> 44:39.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: If, say, it was required that you carry your social security number with you at all times, and that was your actual name, your social security number, which in fact it really is.
[44:39.830 --> 44:39.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[44:40.330 --> 44:43.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: Then it would be a lot more dangerous, because you would have to produce it upon demand.
[44:44.810 --> 44:49.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, also, keep in mind these German ID cards, you have to have your current address on them.
[44:49.390 --> 44:53.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, you know, you don't get in trouble if you don't tell the social security department that you moved.
[44:54.270 --> 44:55.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: Over there you can.
[44:55.990 --> 45:01.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the thing is, you know, even if it's not so bad over there now, or over here now, it can get worse.
[45:01.910 --> 45:04.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's why we have to at least understand what's going on.
[45:05.070 --> 45:05.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[45:05.390 --> 45:10.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, okay, I can see your point, but I still feel that they're useful.
[45:10.750 --> 45:12.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: But anyway, I had another question for you.
[45:13.090 --> 45:17.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: On telephones, there used to be a way of getting your own phone to ring.
[45:18.470 --> 45:20.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I was wondering if you knew how to do that.
[45:20.450 --> 45:25.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: In other words, there was a sequence of numbers you could dial and cause your own phone to ring.
[45:25.070 --> 45:27.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, there still is, but it depends where you are.
[45:27.690 --> 45:29.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's different for every location.
[45:29.170 --> 45:29.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Where exactly?
[45:29.910 --> 45:30.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: 212.
[45:30.630 --> 45:31.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: Just a 212 area card.
[45:32.050 --> 45:35.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: We can probably give you a couple of ideas.
[45:35.430 --> 45:37.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you have any ideas you want to share, Father?
[45:37.130 --> 45:37.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, sure.
[45:37.690 --> 45:42.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: The most easiest thing to do is dial 660 in the last four digits of your phone number.
[45:42.430 --> 45:47.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: And if that returns your dial tone back again, you can flash the switch hook a single time.
[45:47.290 --> 45:49.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: That should give you a high-pitched tone.
[45:49.410 --> 45:50.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hang up the phone, and it should ring.
[45:51.150 --> 45:53.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: To make it stop, pick it up and hang it up quickly.
[45:53.890 --> 45:55.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: That really works still in New York City?
[45:55.650 --> 45:55.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[45:56.210 --> 46:00.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: So 660, last four digits, then what are you doing?
[46:00.650 --> 46:01.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: You pick up...
[46:01.830 --> 46:02.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[46:02.430 --> 46:04.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: 660 in the last four digits of your telephone number.
[46:04.830 --> 46:06.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then if it returns your dial tone...
[46:06.750 --> 46:07.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: Dial tone.
[46:07.350 --> 46:08.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Flash the switch hook.
[46:08.530 --> 46:10.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: In other words, just hang up and pick up again.
[46:10.650 --> 46:10.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[46:10.990 --> 46:12.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: You should get a high-pitched tone.
[46:12.470 --> 46:14.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: When you get that, hang the phone up and it should begin to ring.
[46:15.730 --> 46:16.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, great.
[46:16.510 --> 46:17.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's interesting.
[46:17.370 --> 46:18.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, thanks a lot.
[46:18.210 --> 46:18.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for calling.
[46:19.170 --> 46:23.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: I find a lot of times when you dial 660, you get a dial tone right there on the spot.
[46:23.110 --> 46:24.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, those are in older systems.
[46:24.790 --> 46:25.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's an older system.
[46:25.730 --> 46:25.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[46:25.950 --> 46:28.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, 660 plus four is actually a newer system.
[46:28.490 --> 46:30.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's how it's been for quite some time.
[46:30.370 --> 46:34.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Actually, you know, a lot of 660s that I've been dialing, they wait for ten numbers afterwards.
[46:34.810 --> 46:36.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: Are they waiting for the entire area code as well?
[46:36.610 --> 46:43.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: In some places in the city, most of the time, it might ask you, or it might wait for seven additional digits, which would be your entire telephone number.
[46:43.390 --> 46:47.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's only in certain exchanges and not entirely standard.
[46:47.350 --> 46:50.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: The standard method is 660 in the last four digits.
[46:50.370 --> 46:50.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[46:50.770 --> 46:54.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, by the way, a new ANAC has been found on Long Island.
[46:55.350 --> 46:57.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: ANAC being automatic number...
[46:57.790 --> 46:58.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Announcement.
[46:58.790 --> 46:59.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Announcement.
[46:59.350 --> 47:00.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: AC is announcement, right?
[47:00.390 --> 47:00.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[47:01.530 --> 47:03.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that returns your phone number.
[47:03.910 --> 47:06.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: 958 works in New York City and the surrounding areas.
[47:06.670 --> 47:08.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Not New Jersey, though, I don't believe.
[47:08.770 --> 47:14.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: But in some places, 511 has been sent to work, so you might want to run out and try that and see if it returns your phone number.
[47:15.350 --> 47:16.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, 279-3400.
[47:16.890 --> 47:17.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's take a few more calls.
[47:18.070 --> 47:18.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good evening.
[47:20.150 --> 47:20.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hello?
[47:20.690 --> 47:21.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Anybody there?
[47:22.390 --> 47:23.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: Nobody's there.
[47:23.190 --> 47:23.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good evening.
[47:24.490 --> 47:25.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, sir, Emanuel.
[47:25.430 --> 47:28.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: I have four or five points.
[47:28.390 --> 47:30.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll try to get through them very quickly.
[47:30.010 --> 47:30.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Make it quick.
[47:30.750 --> 47:31.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you've got four points, go ahead.
[47:32.470 --> 47:52.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, as a preface, I should say that, in reference to that last caller, I think that fellow has an incredibly naive view of government, and I wondered what the founding fathers would think of his view, in the sense that government will use any information you would give them and...
[47:54.050 --> 47:56.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's important not to fall into the trap, you know.
[47:56.510 --> 47:58.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: ...breeds the need for more power.
[47:58.450 --> 48:10.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: But in any sense, in any event, what I wanted to talk about was, I'm in New Jersey, and I have noticed at payphones that when I try to use... and I have US Sprint and I have the phone card.
[48:10.890 --> 48:23.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: When I try to use the phone card at non-New Jersey Bell payphones, after I dial the access code, I get a computer tone, but then I'm not able to use the phone card.
[48:23.550 --> 48:26.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: There are no tones that will be generated when I press the buttons.
[48:27.070 --> 48:27.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: They cut off your touch tones.
[48:28.030 --> 48:29.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you know if they cut off your mouthpiece as well?
[48:33.330 --> 48:34.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that.
[48:34.690 --> 48:42.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you can usually tell by blowing into the mouthpiece, and if you're able to hear the sound of you blowing into the mouthpiece in your ear, you'll know that they haven't cut that off.
[48:42.050 --> 48:42.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Is that legal?
[48:43.210 --> 48:47.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, it's hard to say, because you're in Jersey, it might be different than in New York.
[48:47.270 --> 48:55.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Although, on the phones, it says that you have a right to the company of your choice for long-distance calls.
[48:56.090 --> 48:56.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[48:56.710 --> 48:57.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's interesting, because...
[48:57.890 --> 49:01.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Again, this only applies to non-New Jersey, some non-New Jersey Bell phone.
[49:01.290 --> 49:02.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: You see the ads.
[49:02.610 --> 49:08.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: You see the ads for AT&T and everything saying that, you know, from a non-Bell phone, you can always dial 10288.
[49:08.630 --> 49:17.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have yet to find a single co-cut, it's customer-owned, coin-operated telephone that allows you to dial 10288, you know, to get another phone company.
[49:17.410 --> 49:18.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have yet to see that.
[49:18.390 --> 49:19.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm moving right along.
[49:19.290 --> 49:20.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: Another problem at...
[49:20.470 --> 49:24.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, let me answer, for the benefit of the listeners, let me just answer the question here.
[49:25.090 --> 49:31.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, for people that want to complain, there's always a public service commission number on the phone.
[49:32.050 --> 49:32.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's legal.
[49:32.650 --> 49:33.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's supposed to be there.
[49:33.810 --> 49:34.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's no question about that.
[49:35.430 --> 49:40.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: How helpful they will be, that's open to debate, because I've complained many times about various things.
[49:40.850 --> 49:45.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's a phone out by me that charges $9.95 to call 800 information.
[49:45.370 --> 49:46.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's just not right.
[49:47.050 --> 49:48.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, let's resume our caller here.
[49:49.130 --> 49:51.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: And in the space where they had a...
[49:51.370 --> 49:51.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: He hasn't missed a beat.
[49:52.690 --> 49:58.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: On the pay phone card, where they were offering emergency numbers, it was blank.
[49:58.650 --> 49:58.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[49:59.430 --> 50:06.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, I'm just wondering, that could be catastrophic if you weren't able to reach the operator for an emergency.
[50:07.090 --> 50:08.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, that's true.
[50:08.230 --> 50:11.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that situation should be also complained about.
[50:12.130 --> 50:14.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, moving along...
[50:14.150 --> 50:14.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Moving along, yes.
[50:14.630 --> 50:16.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Something that happened, by the way, while I was calling you.
[50:16.730 --> 50:20.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was using a 10222, I think that's MCI access.
[50:21.150 --> 50:21.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's right.
[50:21.810 --> 50:25.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: And after it rang a certain number of times, it was an instant disconnect.
[50:26.230 --> 50:32.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that didn't happen when I got your number again with my U.S.
[50:32.350 --> 50:32.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sprint.
[50:32.970 --> 50:35.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, you're saying about how many rings?
[50:35.370 --> 50:36.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it was about...
[50:37.110 --> 50:38.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd say after about four minutes.
[50:38.990 --> 50:39.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: After about four minutes?
[50:39.890 --> 50:40.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then there was a tone.
[50:40.790 --> 50:42.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, MCI is now doing that too?
[50:42.690 --> 50:42.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[50:42.910 --> 50:44.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: I heard that AT&T was going to start doing that.
[50:44.990 --> 50:46.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think they are, though.
[50:46.390 --> 50:46.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[50:46.790 --> 50:50.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I'd like to hear from some more at-of-state callers what phone companies are doing that.
[50:50.190 --> 50:54.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, now we have MCIs definitely cutting us off after four minutes of ringing.
[50:55.770 --> 51:03.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: And again, now, also, could you elaborate, perhaps after I hang up, on that 950 service?
[51:03.410 --> 51:10.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: You had mentioned that MetroMedia carries that 950 service, because I'm really sick and tired.
[51:10.570 --> 51:16.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't know I could do it any other way, but I've been using my phone card from, what is it, U.S.
[51:16.830 --> 51:23.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sprint, to make calls, you know, throughout the area, more or less local calls that pay phones.
[51:23.870 --> 51:24.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a waste.
[51:24.510 --> 51:24.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a big waste.
[51:24.930 --> 51:26.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm charged, of course, exorbitantly.
[51:26.850 --> 51:28.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you get charged a surcharge.
[51:28.630 --> 51:29.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: I said this last week.
[51:29.670 --> 51:37.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know why they're charging you a surcharge, because that phone card is only good for one thing, and they shouldn't charge you extra for doing that one thing, which is making phone calls.
[51:38.610 --> 51:40.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, considering I don't even have U.S.
[51:40.910 --> 51:44.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sprint for my home phone.
[51:44.130 --> 51:44.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, what...
[51:44.750 --> 51:46.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just for purposes of a travel card.
[51:46.950 --> 51:56.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, what you want is the, if you want this one in particular, Metromedia has a service called the Metromedia ITT Preferred Calling Card.
[51:56.990 --> 52:00.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: And what you do, basically, is you dial 950-0488.
[52:01.190 --> 52:03.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a toll-free call from anywhere in the country.
[52:04.110 --> 52:08.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then you enter your code and the phone number that you want to call.
[52:08.290 --> 52:10.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: Actually, the number you want to call, then your code.
[52:11.430 --> 52:13.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, it's kind of hard to get these things.
[52:13.370 --> 52:23.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: You have to sort of fill out a credit application, but if you ask them that you, you know, you say very stubbornly that you want the preferred calling card, eventually you will get it.
[52:23.430 --> 52:26.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: And their number is 800-275-0200.
[52:27.090 --> 52:28.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's no surcharge.
[52:29.130 --> 52:36.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: You basically use the service, and you make phone calls, and you pay for the phone calls, but you don't pay a surcharge.
[52:36.310 --> 52:37.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for the call.
[52:37.170 --> 52:40.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's try to get a couple more in the time that we have left.
[52:40.390 --> 52:40.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good evening.
[52:41.430 --> 52:42.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, hello?
[52:42.570 --> 52:43.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, go ahead.
[52:43.370 --> 52:43.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: Daniel, hi.
[52:44.610 --> 52:46.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: I have something very relevant for you.
[52:46.510 --> 52:46.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[52:47.070 --> 52:51.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: Follow up on something last week, and then I also have a question, too, about telephones.
[52:51.810 --> 52:51.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[52:51.930 --> 53:02.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: I called and spoke to you last week about something the fellow just before me mentioned on the MCI cutting off of the ringing of the phone if it's not answered.
[53:02.670 --> 53:03.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Were you the person...
[53:03.410 --> 53:04.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: I tried your experiment at you.
[53:04.430 --> 53:04.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[53:05.250 --> 53:08.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: I dialed the number through my regular...
[53:08.350 --> 53:09.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm in New Jersey, by the way.
[53:09.610 --> 53:09.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[53:10.030 --> 53:11.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm in New Jersey, and I'm calling you to New York.
[53:11.930 --> 53:17.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I tried the number through my regular MCI, and it rang exactly four minutes, and it cut off.
[53:17.930 --> 53:18.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: No message.
[53:19.210 --> 53:19.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: No explanation.
[53:19.930 --> 53:22.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, so let me just, for the benefit of the listeners, verify this.
[53:23.310 --> 53:27.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: MCI cuts you off after four minutes of ringing no answer.
[53:27.290 --> 53:35.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: So for anybody that has to use a long-distance company to call us, let me say right now for the record, do not use MCI, because they'll cut you off.
[53:35.090 --> 53:41.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I'm calling you right now through the AT&T access number, which was ringing for more than 40 minutes so far.
[53:42.130 --> 53:42.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Really?
[53:42.810 --> 53:43.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: Picked up.
[53:43.450 --> 53:46.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: I have been waiting, ringing, for almost your entire show.
[53:46.710 --> 53:47.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: It was 40 minutes.
[53:47.370 --> 53:53.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, that's interesting, because some parts of the country, AT&T is doing the exact same thing, but apparently not here yet, and hopefully never.
[53:54.030 --> 53:56.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: So you can use AT&T to call here.
[53:56.370 --> 53:58.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: I dialed to the 10288.
[53:58.330 --> 54:00.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'd like you to also try Sprint in the future.
[54:00.890 --> 54:01.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: Try 10333.
[54:02.170 --> 54:02.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: See what they do.
[54:03.150 --> 54:03.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[54:03.470 --> 54:07.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: And maybe Metromedia 2, 10488.
[54:08.310 --> 54:08.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[54:08.810 --> 54:12.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, also, what I did was I called up MCI, customer service.
[54:12.850 --> 54:13.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[54:13.190 --> 54:16.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: I spoke to the supervisor at the customer service, because the initial person didn't know.
[54:16.930 --> 54:17.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: Of course not.
[54:17.670 --> 54:25.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I had a very lengthy conversation with him about this, and he didn't really know that much about it either, said no one had ever asked about it before.
[54:26.170 --> 54:35.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I know that this is new, because I've always had MCI for several years, and it's only the last few months that this has happened, with the cutting off after four minutes thing.
[54:36.210 --> 54:41.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Did you tell this person that it's very likely you'll have to switch long-distance companies because of it?
[54:41.670 --> 54:50.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: I explained to him, well, he first couldn't offer any explanation, because when he saw that I wasn't going to be satisfied with some glib remarks, they kept going back and forth.
[54:51.150 --> 54:56.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: He didn't seem sure whether it was the local company or MCI who was doing this.
[54:56.070 --> 55:02.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: And he kind of came down on the side of, I should contact my local phone company to see whether they're the ones.
[55:02.130 --> 55:11.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: You see, in some cases, in quite a few cases, actually, the local company does cut off after, say, about 25 rings and turns the ring into a fast busy.
[55:11.550 --> 55:16.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: But it would happen the same way on every long-distance phone company you would use.
[55:16.250 --> 55:17.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: So obviously that's not the case here.
[55:18.150 --> 55:23.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: What reason would they be treating, you know, your call differently from if I called AT&T's?
[55:23.890 --> 55:27.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: And he couldn't offer an explanation for why it would be different for the two.
[55:28.590 --> 55:30.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, again, nothing real definite from them.
[55:30.910 --> 55:33.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I will be contacting the local company just to make sure it isn't them.
[55:33.790 --> 55:40.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think if it is not them and if it is MCI, I probably will have to switch, because I'll never be able to call BAI again.
[55:40.950 --> 55:44.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I'd like for all of our listeners to call MCI about that as well.
[55:44.730 --> 55:50.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: It seems like we're really harassing MCI tonight, but, you know, they wanted to get into the phone business, so welcome to it.
[55:50.750 --> 55:53.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to ask Stephanie last week to call back and let you know what happened.
[55:54.890 --> 55:56.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, thanks for doing that.
[55:56.450 --> 55:57.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, you have a question?
[55:57.470 --> 55:58.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: I have one other question for you.
[55:58.470 --> 55:58.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, go ahead.
[55:59.730 --> 56:04.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: I recently got a solicitation from this company called Working Assets Long Distance.
[56:05.130 --> 56:06.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: What they do is they use Sprint.
[56:06.850 --> 56:08.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: Why don't you tell me how that works?
[56:08.290 --> 56:12.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because they say they give you long-distance service just like a regular...
[56:12.250 --> 56:14.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like it's just like a regular phone company.
[56:14.710 --> 56:15.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a good deal.
[56:15.310 --> 56:25.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: Working Assets basically uses Sprint lines, and they take 1% of whatever they charge and donate that to various nonprofit organizations.
[56:25.410 --> 56:36.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: You get the service of Sprint, and you can sort of ease your conscience if you think that you might be not doing enough, you know, nice things in the world.
[56:36.350 --> 56:39.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: So Working Assets also has a Visa card.
[56:39.590 --> 56:42.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: In fact, we talked to the president of Working Assets maybe about a year ago in this program.
[56:42.970 --> 56:44.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: So yes, I do recommend that.
[56:45.170 --> 56:52.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're just about out of time, but I want to ask FiberOptik if he has any concluding remarks about anything that we might have said tonight.
[56:52.950 --> 56:53.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, not really.
[56:54.010 --> 56:55.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: All I can say is keep on hacking.
[56:55.690 --> 56:59.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's really what we're all doing here is hacking to a degree.
[56:59.630 --> 57:05.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, by asking questions and by making royal pains of ourselves, we are all hackers in a sense.
[57:10.060 --> 57:13.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's going to just about do it for us here on Off the Hook.
[57:13.740 --> 57:18.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we'll be back again next week for yet another edition.
[57:19.020 --> 57:21.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show.
[57:21.640 --> 57:23.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[57:23.480 --> 57:23.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good night.
[57:24.100 --> 57:26.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I ripped it off the wall.
[57:27.220 --> 57:29.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: I cut myself while shaving.
[57:29.860 --> 57:31.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now I can't make a cough.
[57:32.700 --> 57:34.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: It couldn't get much worse.
[57:35.440 --> 57:37.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: But if they could, they would.
[57:37.560 --> 57:40.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bum, diddly, bum, for the best, expect, or worst.
[57:41.000 --> 57:42.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: I hope that's understood.
[57:43.000 --> 57:43.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bum, diddly, bum!