When parents are like that, they refuse to see that sometimes their parents have justifiable arguments
that there is crime in the street.
My only point is that there's an origin to crime in the street.
Crime in the street has largely been increasing because of the deterioration of the whole economic sphere
because of imperial overreach, and I think you absolutely hit it right on the head on that point.
And the David Dukes of the world will continue to rise as movement people continue to have blinders
and refuse to address those issues which are very clear to anyone who lives in a declining economy
with increased crime, deteriorating housing stock, increased homelessness.
And this is something that, unfortunately, progressive people have historically not addressed.
So I would agree with you on that point.
Well, once again, this is Dr. Michio Kaku.
We've run out of time.
You have been listening to Exploration, a program devoted to the question of science and politics.
Join us every Wednesday evening from 8 o'clock to 9 o'clock when Exploration once again
tries to tackle some of the major issues concerning the environment and the question of war and peace.
Good evening.
If you can just get your mind together
Then come on across to me
We'll hold hands and then we'll watch the sunrise
From the bottom of the sea
For the additional 11 hours and 59 minutes,
Wednesday, November 27th, 7.30 p.m.
Right here on WBAI, Jimi Hendrix, Voodoo Dread.
And it's just about 9 o'clock.
You're tuned to WBAI in the city of New York.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
Bum, diddly, bum, for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood, bum, diddly, bum.
The program is off the hook, and we're on the air until 10 o'clock.
This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
Welcome to the program.
Tonight we have a special guest from Minneapolis,
one of the foremost phone freaks in the world.
In fact, some might say he is the first phone freak of the world.
We'll see about that.
And a couple of updates, a couple of things to fill you in on
for those of you that have been following the continuing saga
of high-tech and telecommunications and all that kind of thing.
A couple of weeks ago, you may recall,
we did a program on some insecure locks known as simplex locks
that have invaded our lives everywhere we look.
They're appearing on offices.
They're appearing on mailboxes.
And yes, they're appearing in our homes
with the new 6,000-series simplex locks that have been introduced.
Well, we've been doing more research on that
in the next edition of 2600.
There will, of course, be a rather large article about this whole thing.
And also, everything that anybody needs to know
to open up any simplex lock anyplace.
That's just a simple set of numbers.
That's all you need to know.
A simple set of numbers, and anybody can do it.
We'll be putting that information out.
This will be out in a couple of weeks.
And one thing that you may recall we mentioned
was that there are some colleges, campuses,
that use these particular locks on dormitories.
And one of them is the State University of New York at Stony Brook.
Well, I'd like to be able to say that after our expose,
after having a press conference in the city
and doing the radio program about the insecurity of these locks,
I'd like to say that the State University at Stony Brook
has decided not to put in any more simplex locks,
to take out those ones that are currently
the only thing standing between
the undergraduate students
and people that do not belong in their rooms.
Boy, I'd like to say that.
But I can't say that.
I cannot say that because that is not the truth.
In actuality, what has happened is
the State University of New York at Stony Brook
has made a recommendation.
Now, this is all tied up in the bureaucracy,
so I can't say exactly which part of the State University of New York
at Stony Brook has said this,
but it's being considered.
It's being considered right now at this very moment
the consideration to convert all of the dormitories,
every last one, to this security lock
that we were talking about over the last couple of weeks.
So, sometimes you have an effect
like we did with MCI a couple of weeks ago.
Sometimes you don't have an effect,
but either way, the effect will be felt at some point.
We're just trying to get to people before it's too late.
So, that's the situation there.
I was in D.C. this past weekend
to check out a security conference,
and boy, did I see some interesting things.
Cameras the size of your thumb.
Cameras in sprinkler systems,
and all kinds of surveillance techniques
that you never would have dreamed possible.
It's kind of scary, actually.
Ways of spying on computer terminals,
ways of listening in on phone calls.
Scary bits of information.
There was a hacker contingent down there in D.C.,
a nice hacker contingent.
And we sort of mixed and matched people
and traded quite a bit of information.
So, that's something we'll be sharing with you
over the next couple of weeks.
And what else did we discover?
We discovered that,
going back to the simplex lock situation,
that Federal Express boxes
all the way down there in Washington, D.C.
and in Virginia,
use the exact same simplex combination
that they do up here.
Will wonders never cease?
I don't think so.
Anyway, enough of that.
That's what I've been up to the last week or so,
investigating those stories,
and checking out a couple of other
evolving things that we'll get into
in the weeks to come.
Programming note,
we will not be on next week
because of the Jimi Hendrix special.
However, we'll be back in two weeks.
So, those of you who plan your lives
around this program,
well, you have a week off next week.
Now, you may recall the name of High Rise Joe.
High Rise Joe was, I guess,
the first phone freak,
came out of Minneapolis,
and he's not called High Rise Joe anymore.
Now, his name is changed to Joy Bubbles,
and that's a single word,
which is quite an amazing feat in itself,
getting the phone company to list something
as a single word.
Without any further ado,
I'll just hand things over to Joy Bubbles
in Minneapolis.
You there?
Hi.
Hi.
How you doing?
Well, real good.
Now, suppose you tell us something
about how you got started in all of this
and when that was.
Well, it was in just about 1953 or 1954.
Just before I was four,
I learned how to dial
on an old step-by-step exchange
in Richmond, Virginia.
And then and there,
I decided to be a phone man,
and I kept learning,
and by the time I was seven or eight years old,
I was reporting troubles,
technical problems,
to phone companies,
and I still do.
And I just am sort of self-taught,
and I worked for the phone company
in Denver for a while.
And like right now,
for instance,
just five minutes ago,
I dialed into Suckasana, New Jersey.
That was the very first electronic switching
or stored program exchange,
the first number one ESS.
Well, they've taken that one out,
put a five ESS in,
but they made a mistake.
Uh-oh.
If you dial a disconnected
or changed number in the 584
in the Suckasana exchange,
you get charged for it,
which you're not supposed to.
Are you sure that's a mistake?
Uh, yeah, that's a good question,
but maybe somebody listening to the program
will just, you know, say,
hey, we can fix that.
You know, somebody with the phone company
or something can change translations
on the AIS trunk group
in Suckasana, New Jersey,
so it won't charge us anymore.
Now, can you tell just by listening
that it's charging?
Yeah, it makes a distinctive sound
off what they call off-hook supervision,
which is the, when a phone answers.
Some of the newer digital circuits
don't make a sound,
but we're on what's called
loop signaling trunks,
and it makes kind of a popping noise
that is, you know,
I can recognize it really good.
I see.
Now, you've been blind all your life.
Is that correct?
Yeah.
I like to say no, not yet,
but yeah, I was born totally blind.
Me and my sister were born totally blind.
Really?
Now, has that, do you think
that's added to your abilities
to listen to phone sounds like this?
It may have.
I've met some sighted people
that were really good at listening,
like I can tell frequencies
to within about 1%
on the cycles per second.
For instance, 2600 is,
that's a tone that originally
has been the backbone
of controlling the off-hook
and on-hooks on long-distance circuits.
It's the way you could even dial with that
a number of years ago.
I whistled back in the 50s and 60s.
You were known as the whistler, weren't you?
Yeah, and that's using 2600,
so that's how, in case maybe everybody knows,
but that's how the name 2600
came out for the magazine.
That's correct.
Now, could you give us
sort of a step-by-step,
no pun intended,
view of how you would use
the 2600 hertz tone?
You'd get a dial tone.
What would you do back then?
Okay, I will simulate
when I'll dial a step-by-speaking
of step-by-step.
I will actually dial
on the regular phone here
a step-by-step exchange
in a small town
about 100 miles from here,
and it'll get a fast busy,
and I'll cut the fast busy off
strictly by whistling.
Okay, we're going to hear
a step-by-step fast busy
or reorder.
Yeah, I'm going to dial a reorder
in a small step-by-step
community dial office.
We'll hear the reorder,
and then I'll whistle a 2600,
which will cut the reorder off.
Okay.
And then I can whistle
some pulsing,
and it will dial
another recording or reorder.
So you can actually
whistle pulses as well?
Yeah, like two pulses for two
and nine pulses for nine.
So in other words,
when the rotary dial
had to be transmitted
over long-distance circuits,
it was transmitted
with the on-and-off pulses
of 2600 instead of clicks.
Okay.
So 2600 was extremely important
to, well, it still is
in a lot of cases,
but less and less.
Only in those far-away places,
or is it other places
it's important in two?
Mostly more rural stuff,
and they're converting it
to digital as fast as they can.
Uh-huh.
Hold on just a second.
Okay.
I'll be right back.
Speaking with Joy Bubbles,
formerly known as High Rise Joe.
Okay.
Now I've got the reorder
getting ready to go through.
I'm sorry.
Oh, it's a recording this time.
So I whistle 2600,
which cut that recording off.
Okay.
Now I'll just dial a one
just to make things simple,
and that's a vacant level
in that exchange,
so we should get
that recording again.
My lips are kind of dry.
Yeah.
We're sorry.
Your call can be dialed.
Please dial again.
So that cut it back off.
Amazing.
I don't know,
sometimes when you do that,
you hear some kind of
a confirmation trip
of some sort.
That's a,
especially if you're going
into an exchange
that accepts
multi-frequency pulsing,
you would hear a wink back.
Right.
It's kind of hard
to hear on three-way,
so I chose one
without wink back signaling.
There's one,
for instance,
a digital exchange
that's 2600.
Now on that one,
you would hear a wink.
I could dial that up
through,
let's see,
how would I dial it?
Yeah,
I could dial that up
through AT&T,
and we could get a wink
if you'd like to hear
a wink back
or confirmation.
Sure.
Sure, let's hear a wink back.
Okay.
What this will be
is when I whistle,
it'll be a confirmation
that the system
is ready to receive
multi-frequency pulsing,
which I don't have
anything that would do that,
but this would at least
show you what it would
sound like when the system
would get ready
to receive it.
Okay.
I'll be right back.
We'll be taking
listener phone calls
later on,
279-3400,
if you have any questions.
I'll have to enter
part of my AT&T
credit card in here.
Okay, we'll fade down
while you're doing that.
Please dial your card number
or zero for an operator
now.
I'll manually suppress it,
so.
Okay, okay,
we're going to.
AT&T.
You may dial it.
It didn't go through
that time,
so I did a pound
and you can dial
another number.
You may dial another
AT&T handled call.
It's not going through.
I'll have to.
Hang up and dial again.
I'll check on that one
while I'm talking
and see why I couldn't get it,
but I will figure out a way
where we can hear
a wink back shortly.
Well, we know things change
very quickly in the phone world.
You have to constantly call back
and check on things.
That's true.
I could do one over here
on the other line
and put it on a speaker
and perhaps we could,
I could get it close enough
to where we could hear it.
I can do it that way.
Okay, what kind of setup
do you have over there?
I imagine you have
lots of phones.
Yeah, lots of phones,
lots of phone numbers.
I have a voicemail.
I have an 800 number.
I got to ask you this.
I got to ask you this.
What's your default
long distance company?
AT&T.
Really?
Although I had to get MCI
for my calling cards
because AT&T doesn't offer
950 dialing or 800 dialing
to their calling cards.
You can't use a 950 or 800 number
to reach AT&T.
You can only do it
with a 0 or 1-0-A-T-T-0.
Right.
And if that's blocked,
like it was from Carleton College
where I was on a retreat,
you're out of luck.
So I got MCI
for my travel cards,
which has both 800
and 950 access.
Now, are you able to make
950 calls without a surcharge
on that?
Yeah.
That's great.
Of course, AT&T doesn't have
a 950 number
for their calling cards.
I don't know why.
It seems like they
ought to be able
to hook one up.
Yeah.
And I'm sure
they can manage it.
Okay, we got the confirmation.
I don't know if you could
hear it over on that speaker.
Let me try it again.
That's come from.
Yeah, that was the confirmation.
Yeah, and that's called
a wink back signal.
I can't really do that
on this line
if I dial it direct
because if you do it
on three-way,
you won't really hear it.
So I'll have to figure out
a better setup.
But that at least
gives you the idea
of kind of a
pa-plunk signal.
So back in the old days,
you would whistle
2600 hertz
and then what happened
after that?
Then you would get
that little confirmation
signal
and back in the old days,
you could actually put
multi-frequency pulsing in
and get free calls.
And it happened to be
a federal felony.
But they have several
different means
by which they block it today.
For instance,
one of them
is called TFC,
toll fraud control.
If you try to even,
first of all,
if you're on such a circuit
that takes 2600,
it won't even let
the whistle go through
or the MF.
In other words,
it actually blocks
forward transmission
when something
hasn't answered.
And you would need
to make a call
in a non-answered condition
so they stop
your call there.
But in case they don't,
then there's another
safeguard that's
in your local exchange.
If it sees,
you know,
blue box tones
coming down,
it'll just simply
drop the connection
after the third
or fourth digit.
Interesting.
So they've really,
it's, you know,
pretty much
a thing of the past.
But it's nice
to reminisce about.
How do you stay
up to date
as to where
the step offices are
and where certain
interesting recordings are?
Do you call
different numbers
all the time
all over the country?
Yeah,
different non-working
numbers.
Like I knew
that in Sakasana
201-584-9986
was a non-working
number.
And I dialed it
and I suddenly said,
oh,
that's not a
number one ESS
or 1A ESS anymore.
That's a number
five ESS,
digital AT&T
switching office.
Now they,
they changed it.
I can tell
what type of
telephone office
it is by sound.
Is there any way
you could convey
that to us,
how you were able
to tell?
That would be
kind of hard,
but...
Well,
as far as I know,
it's fairly easy
to tell a DMS-100
from a 5 ESS.
Is that correct?
Yeah,
there's a couple ways.
One way,
for instance,
would be on a DMS-100,
the ring always starts
at the beginning
of a two-second phase.
Whereas on a number
5 ESS,
the ring could start
anywhere.
You could get,
you know,
like a few hundred
milliseconds of the
first ring
or a second
of the first ring,
but a DMS always
gives you a whole
ring on the
first ring.
I see.
Okay.
And then quite often
or most of the time,
the busy signal
on a DMS stops
after 30 busies,
which it doesn't
on the number
5 ESS.
It'll keep on
for a good while.
Also,
the ring stops
a lot of times,
too.
Yeah,
after like four
minutes or so,
the DMS
and a good many
number 5s
have the ring
timeout parameter,
regrettably.
Yeah,
that is a shame,
especially for call-in
shows like we have
here.
We've been talking
about that,
actually,
the last couple
of weeks.
Some long-distance
companies themselves
have been timing
out after about
four minutes.
Also,
I believe a DMS
100 will preface
an intercept
recording with a
ring many times.
Yeah,
that's true.
The automatic
intercept
recording on a
DMS will,
you know,
do a ring,
although that can,
you can get a little
confused on that
pretty easy
because if you
have an AIS
concentrator,
in other words,
where a bunch
of subtending
offices send
the intercept
first to a DMS
and then on
to the intercept,
you know,
rather than each
one have their
own lines to
intercept,
you can hear a
ring,
but the tip-off
for that is the
ring will be
delayed.
I see.
It's a ways away.
That's fascinating.
Now,
as far as
what kind of
switching systems
there are left
in the country,
we're moving
towards complete
digital one way
or another.
What are some
of the more
interesting ones?
I know,
are you familiar
with Fishers
Island,
New York?
No.
That's 516-788.
That's way out
there,
and that's a
step office,
the only step
office,
I think,
in this area.
Wow,
that is,
I didn't realize
that was still
left out there.
I had dialed
it back in
the 60s,
but I'm just
dialing it on
my other line
so I can see
if it's a step
at this moment,
and I'm getting
silent.
Oh,
there we go.
Takes a while.
Reorder.
The reorder
all the way
from New York
via my phone.
That's a great
sound.
I'll show you
one of my
favorite digitals
is a System X.
They're primarily
in the United
Kingdom,
but the nearest
one to here
is in
St. Vincent
Island,
and I love
the London Ring.
Naturally,
I had to figure
out all the
frequencies and
time duration,
so if anybody
ever wants to
know them,
I can,
maybe it's
already known,
but hold on
just a second.
Again,
we're speaking
to High-Rise
Joe,
now known as
Joy Bubbles.
the sound of
a London Ring
ringing,
or actually
St. Vincent
Island on a
digital.
Just about
my favorite
ring.
And it's
made up of
two tones
simultaneously,
400 and
450.
I see.
Now,
in most of
Europe and
most parts of
the world,
the rings are
just like a
rather steady
tone.
Yeah,
usually,
it quite often
tends to be
425 hertz or
400.
They're very
commonly used
for those
steady tones.
Like in the
USSR,
it's 425.
Now,
you have
step machines,
you have
digital machines,
but they make
the same basic
tone,
do they not?
Yeah,
the tone
plant,
actually,
any tone
plant can be
virtually used
with any
type of
office,
or at least
the particular
sounds can
be made.
Like the
first off-hook
tone that you
started the
program with,
you can hear
that in a lot
of different
exchanges.
That's made
of four tones.
Just to give
you an example
of how complex
those tones
are,
it's 1,400,
2,60,
2,450,
and guess
what,
2,600,
all simultaneously,
each on
and off
for 100
milliseconds.
So buried
among that
raspy tone
is 2,600.
That's
something I
did not
know.
That's
amazing.
Now,
you say
it's possible
then to
really have
any kind
of a tone
for a ring
in a digital
office,
is that
correct?
If they
wanted to,
yeah.
In other
words,
when they
sell
digitals
to foreign
countries,
for instance,
I'll dial
one in
Saudi Arabia.
Actually,
this isn't
a digital,
but it's
a 1A
ESS,
which is
a stored
program
analog
switch,
and all
the ones
in the
United States
have the
standard ring
of 440
and 480,
but the
Saudis
wanted their
standard ring
of 425 hertz,
so of course
Western Electric
at the time
gave them
what they
wanted.
Hold on
just a second.
Okay.
Going to
Saudi Arabia
to hear
a phone
ringing
slightly
differently.
Yeah,
this is
going to
be a
ring in
Saudi
Arabia.
I hope
it rings.
It might
start the
recording
right away,
but maybe
we'll get
a ring,
if we're
lucky.
Listen for
the
shokran
right at
the end
of the
third
question.
That's
the only
word in
Arabic I
know,
shokran,
means thank
you.
Really?
Now,
that ring
that we
heard before,
is that
the ring
you wanted
to hear?
Yeah,
except that
the recording
started early
and sometimes
it'll ring
two or three
rings.
They're fairly
long.
They're as
long as
the United
States rings
are,
which is
unusual for
those steady
tone rings.
Now,
why is it
then that
every single
central office
that converts
to digital
uses the
exact same
kind of ring?
I remember
back in the
old days,
back in the
60s,
you had
different rings
in different
places and
you could tell
if you were
going to a
different place,
but now
it seems
to be
we want
to all
sound the
same.
Well,
the Bell
Lab came
out with
a precise
tone plan
that uses
the four
tones,
350,
440,
480,
and 620
and that's
the recommendation
and everybody
follows it
and so the
ring is
designated
440 and
480 and
that's what
people do
in the
United States.
Is there
any office
that you know
of in the
United States
that doesn't
conform to
that standard?
not that's
digital.
That's too
bad,
you know,
I think
variety is
the spice
of life.
Yeah,
there is
in the
1AESS,
there is
a simulated
ring,
which is
520 and
560.
That was
going to be
used and
it's used
like where
you're not
really ringing
something,
where you go
to a recording
or something
that's just
on a trunk.
So Richmond,
Virginia weather
gets it and
that would
charge me to
dial it.
It might
not ring,
but it
sounds kind
of like,
you know,
kind of like
an old
ring.
I'll try it
once here and
see if I can
get it to
ring.
Sometimes it
doesn't.
Hold on a
second.
Maybe I'll
be lucky.
We're going
to Richmond,
Virginia here.
That was
lucky.
Wow, that
was it.
That was an
ESS.
Yeah.
Actually, that
just cut over
to a number
5 ESS, but
they used the
simulated ring
still from the
1A, I assume,
because they
kept that ring
on that one
number, the
268-1212,
the weather
recording.
It's a very
rare ring.
I'd be happy
if I heard
different kinds
of rings,
you know, in
different places.
For instance,
if I call
New York City
and it rings
one way, if
I call New
Jersey, it
rings slightly
differently.
Yeah, for
instance, that's
the kind of
stuff that
originally fascinated
me with the
phone, all
these different
kinds of
sounds.
For instance,
on step-by-step,
let's say you're
dialing through
the first few
digits, you're
going through
selector switches.
They only have
one side of the
line connected
through to the
DC current that
allows you to
talk, the
talk battery.
So it's kind
of a hummy,
unbalanced
connection.
But once
you get up to
your last two
digits, they
have the line
balanced, so you
hear it silently.
So I wondered
why you could
hear kind of
dial tones and
ringing in the
background on the
first few digits,
but the last two
digits are very
quiet.
You know, all
those kind of
differences, just
scores and scores
of them, and each
and every step
office is just
slightly different.
You know, they're
so mechanical.
Right.
And now they're
just virtually, you
know, so similar.
I mean, you heard
one digital, and you
may find some
programming errors,
like the one in
Suckasana, but, you
know, but it just
sounds the same.
Do you think people
will be drawn into it
as much, even though
there are so many
similarities now?
Probably not in the
same way, you know,
because there's a love
kind of, like, step-by-step
in the old number five
and number one
and crossbar and
panel offices and
crossbar tandems, you
know, like, they go
boing, you know, you
hear the, like, a
flat spring relay in
there that had an
extra kind of boing in
it.
They would put things
called damping cones
on some of the
contacts to kind of
keep the boing sounds
down, but some of
them would still be
there, and they were
kind of delightful.
Uh-huh.
A couple of exchanges
I'd like to have you
check out, if at all
possible.
And you can tell me
exactly what kind of
system this is.
One is in the 718 area
code, and it's the
762 exchange.
That's one of those
deep baritone rings with
all the static in
between the rings.
I'm not sure if I can
give you a test number.
Maybe 9901 or 9970
might be a busy signal.
Do you want to give
that a try?
Yeah.
I'm just trying it now
on the other line.
Okay.
That is a number five
crossbar with a
mercury drum type
ring generator.
It actually used a
great big old rotating
drum with mercury in it
to make the contacts.
Can you bring that up?
Yeah, let me see what I
could, yeah, I could,
trying to think how I
could let you hear the,
oh, I know how I can let
you hear the reverse
battery.
I could do it through
AT&T so that we would
hear the clicking properly.
There's a reverse battery
test line that's used for
testing the quality of the
way the off hooks and
on hooks are sent.
Uh, hold on just a second.
Okay.
That's, uh, 762-9972.
Okay, we'll fade down for
your, uh, for your calling
card number so the whole
world doesn't hear it.
AT&T.
Now it should go through
with our good old ring.
Notice the click.
Yes.
That one.
Now it'll answer briefly.
Now it'll go funny.
See, and now it'll stay
like that as long as you
want to stay on it.
Fascinating.
It's a nice sound.
Oh, it drops off on number
five ESS.
I forgot.
Okay.
Now, uh, the other
exchange I'd like you to
check out is, uh, the,
where the 2600 office is
and that's area code
516-751 exchange.
Okay.
I used to put those
reverse batteries up on
the speaker and jump around
and sing when I was like
four years old.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, I used to dial
one particular one in
Cincinnati when I was,
by the, when I was eight.
And, uh, yeah, now that's a
number five crossbar.
Can you bring that up?
Yeah.
I can bring up one.
Hold on a second.
I'll do it direct.
Now that we've heard the, uh,
the clicking, we won't,
I won't need to dial it
through the credit card
where we could hear
all the clicking.
But this is the ring.
And then there's a little
click.
And then it'll ring once more.
And then it would answer
and make the same type
of clicking.
Now that ring is 500 hertz
modulated by 40.
It's a fairly small
mechanical motor system
whereas the one before
was 420 modulated by 40.
And that's really big.
Weighs several hundred pounds
and it has the big
mercury drum in it.
I see.
Yeah, you know,
in that particular ring,
the one you just played now,
you can hear other rings
in the background.
You can hear a busy signal
in the background.
Yeah, because the, uh,
connection to the ring
is an unbalanced connection.
In other words,
if a line is balanced,
that means there's
the same, uh, impedance
from each side
of the line to ground.
And this one has one side
just connected directly
to ground
and the other connected
through the ringing source.
So it's really
horribly unbalanced.
And on that, uh,
type of office,
the number five crossbar,
it's also that way
during dialing.
So like if you stop
in the middle of dialing,
you'll hear an extra
amount of hum
and rings and busies
and things like that
just because of that.
Actually, that was true
before they put
the adjunct frame in.
And when they put that in
to allow us, uh,
equal access
and, uh, overseas
direct dialing,
uh, it's a lot more
quiet between the digits
when you dial.
Uh, if you're able
to somehow knock off
the adjunct frame,
though, you will hear
the old sounds.
Yeah, and I regrettably
haven't used a, uh,
number five office.
It's like one of those
contact things.
There's several
different companies
that make those, uh,
equal access,
and I'd love to be
able to use one.
But, uh, now in our
whole big local
calling area of 50
miles around,
we don't have one
number five crossbar
left.
All right.
So there's only just
a few left in the state.
By 1994, they'll all
be gone in the whole
state of Minnesota.
Now, what will they
do with them all?
I don't really know
what they, um, do,
whether they sell them
to other companies
for spare parts,
or, of course,
there's getting
fewer and fewer, uh,
companies that even
have those, so.
Uh-huh.
Well, now there's
something I'd like to,
uh, I'd like to share
with you, uh, before
we go to some phone
calls.
And again, we'll be
taking phone calls at
212-279-3400.
We're speaking with,
uh, well, he's known
as Joy Bubbles now,
but in the past he was
known as, uh, let me
know if I leave out
anything, High Rise
Joe, Joe Ingressia,
the, the Whistler, uh,
and right now you're
in Minneapolis.
And, uh, this is one
of the most world-renowned
phone freaks of all
time.
So if you have any
questions, and our
switchboard is completely
lit up now, uh, give us
a call, try to break
through the busy signal,
212-279-3400.
Um, recently in, in, uh,
I was just in down in
Washington, D.C., and,
um, somebody gave me
this number, a telephone
number in Atlanta,
Georgia, that you can
call and have your phone
number read back to you.
Now, that's, uh, that's
pretty incredible,
wouldn't you say?
Uh, yeah.
Okay, now, there's a
trick to it, there's a
catch.
You can't just dial it
1+, you have to dial it
through a special carrier
access code.
And I'm wondering if this
carrier access code will
mean anything to you.
It's 10732.
Yeah, that's the SDN, or, uh,
software-defined network,
AT&T carrier code.
That's for large users,
oh, like, um, General Motors
or General Electric, a lot
of big companies are getting
SDN.
And that is used to test what
number you're actually, um,
coming in on.
I see.
Now, have you heard of this
number before?
Yeah.
Have you called it before?
A lot of times, yeah.
It's one of their, they try to
keep it secret, but things
like that just sort of get
around.
I don't know how people find
them, but they just sort of,
a fool-proof system can't be
devised because fools are so
darn clever, I guess, and
include myself among them.
Uh-huh.
Well, uh, if you want, we'll,
uh, we'll give it out now, or
we won't give it out.
It's up to you.
What do you want to do?
I don't know.
I'll leave it up to you, I
guess.
I, uh, I won't give it out.
Okay.
Well, if I give the number out,
will you dial it now so people
can hear how it works?
Yeah, they'll hear my number
here, and then they'll hear,
uh, a lot of, um, uh, some
other digits that tell what
type of data, uh, what
company you're actually with,
which software-defined
network you're actually on.
Okay.
Well, now, you don't have any
qualms about giving out your
phone number, correct?
No.
I'm listed in the directory
assistance as Joy Bubbles,
all one word, and to help
them find it, because they're
not used to looking for
people's names as one word,
I have a cross-reference
listing, so when they look
under Bubbles Joy, it
doesn't have any number or
address or anything, it just
says, see Joy Bubbles.
Amazing.
And you could, anybody that
wants one, like, if your name
is commonly misspelled, you
might get a cross-reference
listing referring them to the,
uh, other number.
And is that free?
No, it's, uh, here it's a
dollar and a half a month.
Really?
But anybody can do that.
Yeah.
Do you have to prove that it's
logical, or can you have
something completely off the
wall as a reference?
Uh, I don't know, but of
course, if you really wanted
something off the wall, you
could just have simply an
additional listing for the,
they're here, they're the same
price, and that would just be
another name listed on your
account.
Uh-huh.
I was thinking...
Uh, so like I could, um,
you know, have, you know,
like I had my old name in for a
while, and I finally took it
out, where Joy Bubbles is the
only one now, but I could have
any number of names that I
wanted to pay for.
I see.
Okay, what I'd like to do is,
uh, give that number a try,
and, uh, since we do give out
information here on the
program, I'd like our, our
listeners to experiment with
this as well.
I don't think there's any
reason they'll, uh, they'll
disconnect the number because
it's, it's being used for
exactly the purpose that it's
been, uh, uh, installed for.
Uh, it's an area code
404, which is, uh, Atlanta,
Georgia.
By the way, do you know if
that charges when you call
this number?
Uh, no, it doesn't.
Okay, good.
Area code 404-988-9664.
Uh, now, again, you have to
preface that with the carrier
access code 10732.
Uh, I don't know what happens
if you try it, uh, dialing it
direct.
You probably just get a ring
or something?
Yeah, it would get a ring with
a regular, uh, telephone
number that usually doesn't
answer.
I'd like to also calm people
down who, uh, are jumping
around saying, wow, it's
nationwide caller ID.
That's not what it is.
This is the equivalent of, uh,
of dialing an 800 number and
having your number passed to
that, which is certainly
cause for concern.
But, uh, since you are going
through a special carrier,
uh, it's, uh, it's not as if
you could just pick up your
phone, call somebody in, in,
in California someplace and
have your number passed along,
although it's the first step
towards that, I would imagine.
Yeah, it's, for instance, on,
like my 800 number bill,
everybody that, just about
everybody that calls me, uh,
I end up getting their phone
number when my bill comes at
the end of the month.
Amazing.
So people that, uh, you know,
it does, uh, show up.
Okay, you want to give that
number a try?
Yeah, I'll be right back.
Tell us what happens.
Okay, it's multi-freaking out,
two-stage, equal access,
pulse, and it's already in
Atlanta.
Six, one, two, eight, seven,
zero, seven, zero, seven, zero,
eight, eight, eight, zero,
zero, zero, zero, one, two,
one.
And that's it.
So my number was six, one,
two, eight, seven, oh,
seven, oh, seven, oh,
which it added an eight at the
end.
I don't know exactly what that
means.
Yeah, I've noticed every number
that you call, it adds an eight
through the end.
I don't know why that is
either, but those numbers
afterwards, what was that all
about?
That is the type of software
defined network you're in.
Uh, the traditional one would
probably give that since I'm
not really in one.
Well, when I call it, I get a
recording from the 212 area
because saying my call could not
be completed as dialed or
something.
Yeah, I don't know why that is
unless, um, you're doing it
from an exchange that doesn't
have those trunks put in or
something.
I'd have to hear it locally to
really tell.
Okay, unfortunately, here at the
radio station, we've, uh, uh,
through no fault of mine,
blocked all, uh, 10XXX
carriers, so I can't experiment
with that.
Uh, but I will be able to
experiment from other places.
Does this work from payphones,
by the way?
Uh, no.
Does not.
Okay.
Uh, all right, we're going to,
uh, go to the telephones.
Let me just ask you, uh, an
opinion on one thing, though,
before we do.
How do you feel about
caller ID, the latest, uh,
fad in the nation?
Uh, I'm, you know, I kind of
like it, I guess I, you
know, it does have, you
know, but me, I've, you
know, sort of, I figure pretty
well everybody knows me, and,
you know, um, but I could see
concerns, like, from battered
women's shelters and things
like that, where their number
would be passed forward, or,
uh, private police numbers,
you know, but, um, maybe we
have a right to know them,
you know?
All right, and we'd like to
also ask our listeners to, uh,
to join us in, in, in, in a
search for the common feeling
here, what people think about
caller ID, write to us, uh,
and I, I think the, uh, the,
the best couple of responses
will get subscriptions to, uh,
2600 Magazine.
We'd like to see how people
feel about this, if you're
for it, if you're against it,
why, examples of how it will
be good or how it will be bad.
Uh, write to us, off the
hook, care of WBAI, 505 8th
Avenue, New York, New York,
10018, and do it before the
end of the year, because, uh,
early 1992, we'll be, uh,
reading these over the air and
announcing, uh, what we think
the best ones are, and that
kind of thing.
Again, uh, however long you
think it'll take, whether it's,
uh, a couple of paragraphs or a
few pages, why you think
caller ID is good, why you
think caller ID is bad, whether
you think it should come to
New York or stay away, uh,
write to us, WBAI, 505 8th
Avenue, New York, New York,
10018.
And let's, uh, go to the
telephones now.
Good evening, you're on the
air.
Go ahead.
Hello?
Yeah.
Hello?
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, I would...
Turn down your radio, please.
Okay.
Yeah.
Oh, yes, the, just one
qualifying piece of
information.
Uh, when you say that you
can, uh, maintain an
unlisted number without the
$2 per month expense by
simply just having it under a
false name or whatever.
Uh, well, the primary
listing would, uh, quite
often need to be under the
name that it's actually
billed in.
That's what I'm saying.
If you have a number
already and they've been
billing you for years under
your real name, how will
the phone, the phone
company object?
Correct.
Although, won't they
continue billing you under
that name, but they could
list it under a different
name?
I see.
Okay.
And that won't be any
extra charge?
Uh, there might be a
charge to change, a one-time
charge to change, but not a
monthly charge as long as
you're listed somehow.
Okay.
Another thing is if you're
just starting up, let's
say you move into a new
house and you have the
phone there, if you give a
fake name, will the phone
company ask for ID when
they bill you?
I would imagine, and you
could tell me if this is
the same in Minnesota, that
if you want to bill it to a
false name, they will ask
for some kind of credit and
possibly a deposit of some
sort.
Yeah.
However, if you, uh, if you
bill it to your name and you
have a decent credit rating,
you can list it under any name
you want, except I don't
believe you can list it as a
business if it's a
residential line.
That's right.
Yeah, that's like here, it's
like three times the rate for a
business.
Three times, okay.
Okay, thanks for calling.
279-3400.
Good evening.
Thanks for calling.
Uh, yes, um, I'd like to
find out, there's something
that's probably intriguing,
uh, everybody else, is do you
have any, uh, idea how to get
the hold of the, uh, ringback
number for New York City?
Because it seems to be almost
impossible, or are they still
using a number for ringback, or
do they have some other scheme?
Uh, some of them they've
taken out.
We have actually, uh, they
charge for it.
It's called, uh, home intercom,
or intercall, you pay $2 a
month, or $1.5, I think it
is, you dial your own number,
get a busy, hang up, and it
rings, just like was in the
old crossbar exchanges 40
years ago.
But as far as, um, finding one
in New York, it could be one
plus a seven-digit local code.
In other words, since you don't
normally dial one for a seven-digit
number, it could be hidden away
in some one-plus local number.
It's usually something to do with
the 660 exchange.
You know, I've been playing, I
was going to tell you before, I've
been playing with some of these
other exchanges, uh, 660, and,
um, making up some, I think,
the, uh, uh, 990 or something
like that, and playing with
some of, I think you mentioned
one, 936 or something, that you
can use to get a quiet line, which
I could not get to work.
But I have found that if you
dial those, uh, prefixes and then
hit a star or pound key, you better
move your ear away from the phone
because what'll happen is you'll
get a ring and then it'll pick
up and it'll go, uh, very loudly.
Can you tell me what that tone's
all about?
It's deafening and it sounds
very, you know, like a, like a
fire engine, uh, flaxen.
Yeah, no, I'd have to actually
hear it and see what frequency
it was and stuff to really know.
Do you have the exact number?
Uh, no, I think you can try any
of those, uh, test, uh, prefixes
that you know about from the, any
of the internal phone company
prefixes, and then you get a, um,
I think you, you might even be
able to do it with any, I, I
don't remember now, I should
have written it down.
You'd have to do that from,
you know, I would have to be in
New York City.
Yeah, you dial a prefix.
Whatever you're dialing it from.
A star or pound, and then you
get this incredibly loud tone,
which is really obnoxious.
Uh-huh.
I've been trying to find a
ringback number, but I'll try it.
What'd you say, one in any
seven-digit, uh, number?
Local number, yeah.
It could be in some, one in a
local exchange.
They could put it in as what's
called a code conflict.
I've seen that.
Is there any groups of numbers
that they tend to hide these
things around?
No, it could be anywhere.
You just dial at random.
And, you see, in most places,
out on the island and upstate,
uh, it's a different exchange
for every, uh, every central
office.
New York City tends to be the
660 exchange.
However, 660 works differently
in different areas.
Some places you can dial 660
plus the last four digits and
hang up, pick up again, hang
up, and it'll ring.
Other times you have to dial all
seven digits.
Other times you have to dial a
special code.
Other times you have to dial
star two pound.
And, there's all kinds of
things.
So, uh, play around, you
know.
What's the, uh, what's the
pre, what's that thing again
for getting a quiet line?
Because I have, I must have
misunderstood your direction.
Uh, well, I, the suffix for,
for quiet lines is 9932, I
believe.
Right.
So, if you, if you dial your
exchange plus 9932, you'll
either get a completely silent
line or you'll get a silent
line punctuated by occasional
tones.
All right.
Thanks very much.
And, try that, uh, thing with
the tone.
Maybe you can figure it out.
I think it works on 660 and
then you hit the pound or star
and you get this really
horrific tone.
Okay.
I'll, I'll look forward to
that.
Thank you.
Thanks for calling.
Bye-bye.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Uh, I got a couple of brief
questions.
Uh, first, about fax numbers.
Uh, do fax numbers have a
system, some of them are
passwords, like, um, computer
modem numbers, uh, so that
they'll only allow certain
faxes to go in.
Well, I, I've never seen one
myself.
I've heard of machines that do
things like that, that, uh,
have kind of, uh, kind of like a
crawl block function where...
Yeah, that's what I mean.
...it waits for a certain, a
certain, uh, code, certain four-digit
code, usually, and if it doesn't
get that, it just either plays a
recording or hangs up.
Uh, there are answering machines,
there are phone lines like that.
In fact, one of the sleazier, uh,
payphone companies around here
has a service number, and if you
call that special service number,
you get a tone, and it's supposed
to enter four digits.
If you enter the wrong four
digits, which, of course, you're
going to do, you get a very fake
sounding busy signal.
Uh, it sort of makes you want to
dynamite the thing.
But, uh, yeah, those kind of
devices are around, and I've never
actually seen one in a fax machine,
but I'm certain they, they are
being used.
Well, I have a fax card in my, uh,
my computer, and I've been
trying to fax to certain
publishers and to universities,
and, uh, they never answer.
Uh, that's why I thought maybe,
um, you have to do something
besides dialing their fax number
to get through.
Uh, have you heard anything like
that?
I would imagine that probably
out of paper or their, uh,
fax line has changed, because
it has to answer in order to,
to know who you are.
Yes.
Uh, you know, the only, the
only other option I would say
would be if you were in a
caller ID area, maybe they don't
answer the phone unless they
see a number they recognize,
but that would be, you know,
rather, rather silly of them.
There is a book called the
National Fax Directory.
I'm sure you know the book, uh,
is, but that book is fairly
skimpy.
Do you know a very good, uh,
directory of fax numbers?
Uh, is there such a thing?
Well, I don't think there is
such a thing, only because
lots of companies and
organizations don't really like
their fax numbers getting out
all over the place.
Yeah.
I mean, think of it.
You can, you can call all the
news media people and, and,
and waste their time sending
them paper and having them
pay for the paper, too.
Right.
I mean, it's great fun for
some people, but it's also,
uh, you know, horrible if you
have a fax machine and it's
being tied up all the time.
Yeah.
Uh, another area, the, the
blank one-one numbers, like
nine-one-one, four-one-one,
uh, six-one-one, you know.
What, uh, are all of them
used for something?
For example, uh, 3-1-1, 5-1-1,
7-1-1, and 8-1-1?
It can vary in the local area.
The, um, there's no real
standard.
Some areas use 6-1-1 and some
use seven-digit numbers for
repair.
Like in, uh, Southern Bell,
uh, part of Bell South, they
use the 7-8-0 and different
four digits all in their
southern states.
And then the South Central
Bell states use 5-5-7.
And, for instance, we use
6-2-0 and four digits,
different four digits for
different repair bureaus.
Well, I know, but 4-1-1 and
9-1-1 are nationwide, aren't
they?
Yeah, they're pretty much the
real standards.
Um, are there any other 1-1s
that are nationwide?
Uh, no.
They're the only, uh, only two
that are, then 6-1-1 is the
next closest to being
nationwide, although, you know,
there's a lot of variations,
but that would be, and then
8-1-1 is sort of very,
you know, uh, fairly
uncommon for business
office.
I see.
Yeah, 8-1-1 is used out in
California.
6-1-1 is interesting, though,
because, uh, recently I've
been calling that one.
While they've disconnected
the, the automated repair
service, because so many
people out there complained
about it, they do have
something else.
They say, press 1 if you
have a touch-tone phone.
And if you press 1, then it
says, press 3 if you want
to speak to a human.
One wonders why they make
you do that.
If you just don't press
anything, you'll speak to a
human anyway.
Yeah.
But you also get an option
press 4 to be connected to
directory assistance, which is
weird, because why would you
call 6-1-1 to be connected
to 4-1-1?
So, uh...
Just in case you realize you
made a mistake after you
dialed it.
I don't know.
I guess.
Maybe you don't get charged
for it.
I don't know.
Maybe people can experiment
with that.
One last thing, that star-67 you
discussed a few weeks ago.
I've been sort of fooling around
with that area, star-68, star-64.
And you do get answers, people,
actual people on the phone.
Do you know anything about that?
Uh, tell me exactly how you're
using it.
Star, um, star, um...
I should have...
I don't have them next to me, but
like star-68, star-64.
Do you know if you were getting the
same person on the star-6 and
anything you dialed?
I'm not sure about that.
Because it could be, in some
centraxes, uh, or like small
business, uh, groupings and stuff
of lines, you actually, uh, star
and a digit will be the speed
calling codes.
So you could be, uh, getting star-6
as the speed calling number.
It's possible.
Are you trying this from your
home or office?
Home.
Trying it from home.
Okay, it's not likely you have, uh,
that kind of a system.
Uh, are you in New Jersey?
New York, no.
Manhattan.
Okay, well, star-67 is a, is a
caller ID function, correct?
Yeah, that's the blocking code.
Right, well, that, that would not
work in New York, not until they
get caller ID here.
So I'm not quite sure what you're
doing, but, uh.
Answers like, uh, national, uh,
directory and other things like
that.
And you're just dialing star-6-7,
nothing else?
No, and other star-6, uh, eight,
uh, star-6-5, that type of thing.
But you're only dialing those,
those three buttons.
That's right.
That's interesting.
I, I would find out from them,
ask them what phone number
you're coming in on, and then
make a little directory and
figure it all out.
I see.
Well, uh, yeah, I could, I could
try it that way.
I just wondered if you knew if
that was like a, sort of a
grouping of, uh, they use that
for certain things.
No, I've never heard of it.
There's going to be various
caller ID codes, like star-69,
star-66, star-61.
They're all, not caller ID, but I
mean the class, uh, functions or
the newer, um, services that use
the system seven signaling.
And so I've never actually seen
that happen.
I'd have to actually be dialing
from that line and listen and
seeing kind of what was
happening and what kind of
central office it was and that
kind of stuff.
But sir, keep, uh, keep
experimenting and let us know
what happens.
Okay, I sure will.
Thanks for calling.
Let me, uh, let me ask you a
question, uh, out there in, uh,
in Minnesota, Joy Bubbles.
Uh, what do you think of the
breakup?
Do you think it was a, a, a bad
thing that the whole network
has been changed?
We're on the verge of converting
to nationwide, uh, system seven
and all that.
Are we moving in the right
direction or are we, uh, falling
backwards?
Overall, I think it's good
because I have more choices.
For instance, I paid $2.75 plus
per minute charges for my 800.
And I don't think that would have
been available, uh, before the
breakup.
And, you know, the voicemail, uh,
you know, at six or seven
dollars a month and stuff.
I, uh, you know, there's more
choices for people that can make
them, but for a person that is,
you know, doesn't want to be
phone literate, it can be pretty
bewildering with Entralata and
Interlata and these different
companies and stuff.
So, um, it has advantages and
disadvantages.
I actually, um, basically like it.
Yeah, it is, uh, it is fun for
people that, uh, like to play
with technology.
But for the average person, I
think it becomes kind of, uh, sort
of a nightmare sometimes.
Especially when phone systems
just inexplicably fail.
Yeah, and when you have all these
different dialing procedures, it
can't even be guaranteed to be
able to walk up to a payphone and
use your calling card in the same
way.
Right, or have it used and then, uh,
charge times three or something
like that.
Yeah.
Okay, let's go back to the phones.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Hi.
All right, perhaps a kind of low
brow question, but it's actually
two questions.
Number one, have you noticed that
in certain cities, particularly here
in New York, say, the, uh, the
recorded announcements and the, uh,
ringing noises are louder than
they are elsewhere in the country?
Well, I could theorize and say New
York is just a more abrasive kind of
a town.
Yeah, that's what I think, too.
But I just want to, as long as you
have the, uh, expert on the line
over there, I figured I'd bounce it
off of him.
No, when I've dialed on other lines,
I haven't really noticed it.
You know, when I've dialed on, like,
dial tones or something in New York,
I haven't, uh, noticed that much
different.
You may be going to something like
an old crossbar tandem or something.
I mean, not a crossbar tandem, but an
old, uh, tandem that happens to have
their recordings adjusted loud or
something like that.
I don't know.
Oh, okay.
Because also those, um, multi-tone signals
where you had the, uh, 2600 and stuff,
that's such a blast your ear out.
Whenever you get a wrong number,
the thing just, there's no reason
that I can figure out why they're
just blasting your ear out to get
your attention to let you know
you've dialed the wrong number.
Well, there's no reason why you
can't, uh, you know, tell somebody
in the phone company, give them a
specific number and say, hey, you
guys, this is too loud.
Yeah, but I don't think it works.
The other thing is when it comes to,
say, call waiting and three-way
calling, those sort of calling
features, uh, is there any insight
about that stuff that, uh, uh,
someone like myself, who's just
like Joe Average, might not know?
Well, uh, one thing that you may
know, but, uh, you know, it's still
kind of new, is to disable your
call waiting, and a lot of
exchanges, you can dial 1170 or
star 70 if you have touch tone,
uh, their equivalent, and, um,
then get a dial tone and make your
call, or if you're already on a
call, you have to have three-way
calling, and you can use it with, uh,
star 70.
But do you have to be hooked into
that, or you just do it if you're
not even hooked into it?
You just have to have call
waiting, and then it'll work,
usually, uh, in most areas.
In most areas.
It's worked for years, actually,
and there's never been a charge
for it.
Just star 70, and then you can
just open up another line?
Uh, no, it's to block, uh, in
case you're on the phone and you
don't want to be interrupted with
call waiting.
That will turn off call waiting.
Oh, I see.
You could just do it right while
you're talking to somebody.
If you have three-way.
Uh-huh.
Also, one final thing.
It's a good thing that, uh, we're
not on one of these, um, more
modern networks, because I've
been ringing forever.
I would have been disconnected a
million times calling you.
Well, I hope that doesn't come
to that ever.
Really?
Because, uh, we'd be out of
business here at BAI if our
callers kept getting hung up on
every, uh, four minutes.
No, but an excellent show.
An unusual excellent show.
And I just tuned in about half
past the hour.
I'm sorry I missed most of it.
Okay.
Well, thanks for calling.
Sure.
I'll be right back.
I've just got to let you hear
something.
I just got an impulse.
An impulse.
Okay.
From High Rise Joe out there
in Minnesota.
There's a number that lets you
hear multi-frequency pulsing
really loud, just by the way
it's hooked up.
Doesn't that bring back
memories?
Boy, it sure does.
...have reached 5, 4, 8, 8,
6, 6, 9, is not in service.
If you feel you have reached
this recording in error, please
check the number or try your
call again.
Thank you.
That's in 612.
That's in a Stromberg-Carlson
digital central office.
So that...
That's kind of rare, isn't it?
Yeah.
It certainly is.
It's kind of good to know that
still exists, just in case you
want to bring back old memories.
Boy, what was the area code of
that number?
612.
612.
Okay, if our listeners want to
call that up.
Let's see if we can fit one more
phone call in.
Good evening.
Hi.
This is a not-very-elegant question
considering the level of
sophistication.
I'm interested in seeing a
reverse phone book.
I'm in New York.
Is there any chance of doing
that?
Well, they have things called
Kohl's directories.
You might be able to find
those at...
Oh, what?
They're called Kohl's
directories, C-O-L-E-S.
Sometimes you can find them
at libraries.
Oh, okay.
Usually they'll charge an
outrageous amount if you
actually want to get one.
However, when I was down in
D.C., unfortunately I don't
have this with me now, but I
discovered a 900 number that
is being passed around where
people can tie into a database
of, I think, 80 million names
throughout the country.
You give them a phone number,
they give you an address and a
name if they have it, and it
costs, I think, $1.50 for the
first minute, 75 cents each
additional minute.
Usually I hate 900 numbers, but
this one seems like, you know,
it's almost fair, so...
I've even used it, and I hate
900 as much as anybody
900-884-1212, but yeah, it's...
Okay, there you go.
That's the number.
What about a phone book, um...
What about a phone book where
you look up the address?
Is there such a thing?
Well, the call...
They're at the library here,
the Coles directory.
You could just walk in and...
Same thing, huh?
Yeah, they divide it up into
address, they divide it up into
phone number, it's two sections,
but this 900 number is only one
way, just give it the phone number.
Okay, great.
All right?
That was my question.
Thanks a lot.
Okay, thanks for calling.
Bye-bye.
And that's, uh, just about all
the time we have for, uh, for
calls.
Uh, we've been speaking with, uh,
Joy Bubbles out in Minneapolis,
is it?
Yeah.
Okay, formerly known as
High Rise Joe, Joe Ingressia,
the Whistler, uh, probably...
Would you say you're the first
phone freak in the, uh, in the
country?
No, I finally met one that was
doing it back in the 30s and
40s in, uh, Philadelphia.
Really?
So I am not the first, but for a
long time I thought I was.
I am almost the first.
Well, sometimes we feel that
we're the only hackers out there,
so I, I, I know the feeling.
Uh, well, what are you up to
these days?
Anything, uh, anything new?
Any, any more explorations or
anything?
Yeah, a lot of playing with kids.
I decided to never grow up, uh,
to be five years old for the
rest of my life.
I go to play groups.
Kids jump on me and I make up
songs and, uh, um, things like
that.
But I still, uh, report
troubles, you know, pretty
regularly to phone companies
all over and stuff.
Well, as long as you don't lose
your links to the past.
Thanks very much for, uh, for
joining us tonight and hopefully
we'll hear from you again in the,
uh, in the future.
It's been fun.
Okay, and did you want to give
out your phone number in case
people want to call you and ask
you any more questions?
In case you lose it, it's listed
as Joy Bubbles and Directory
Assistance and it's 612-870-7070 and
I'll be glad to answer your
questions.
Okay, thanks so much for being
with us tonight.
Thanks.
I enjoyed it.
And that's going to just about
do it for us here tonight.
The program is off the hook.
My name's Emmanuel Goldstein.
Won't be here next week, but
we'll be here two weeks from
now.
So, tune in then.
Stay tuned now for the
Personal Computer Show.
Good night.
But if they could, they would.
Bon, Biddley, Bo.
For the best, expect, or worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bon, Biddley, Bo.
We'll be right back.