Off The Hook - 1991-12-18

[00:19.710 --> 00:22.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's one of my favorite songs of all time.
[00:22.910 --> 00:25.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we're going to have to cut it just a little bit short.
[00:26.370 --> 00:32.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: As this is Emanuel Goldstein and I'm incredibly late and I've got a, not really an excuse, but a pretty good reason.
[00:33.930 --> 00:35.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: The program is Off The Hook.
[01:03.990 --> 01:06.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, things could not get much worse.
[01:06.330 --> 01:10.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: In fact, it's a rather bitter irony tonight, the reason why I'm 15 minutes late.
[01:11.290 --> 01:17.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was caught by the very technology that I'm always talking about on the radio here.
[01:17.410 --> 01:25.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: There are things messing up and people becoming victimized by those little objects that are supposed to help us.
[01:26.170 --> 01:33.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Case in point, those three-color lights that appear at every street corner, known as traffic lights.
[01:33.990 --> 01:35.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why are they known as traffic lights?
[01:35.430 --> 01:37.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because they cause traffic to build up.
[01:38.210 --> 01:40.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's exactly what happened in Queens.
[01:40.610 --> 01:44.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: It normally doesn't take two and a half hours to get to New York City from Long Island, but today it did.
[01:44.770 --> 01:51.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because, actually, a couple of lights were malfunctioning, but there was one in particular on Queens Boulevard.
[01:51.670 --> 01:57.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I won't say exactly where, because probably a lot of listeners will go out there to look at it.
[01:57.870 --> 02:00.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then they'll cause a traffic jam of other sorts.
[02:01.310 --> 02:09.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: But basically, this light decided to be green for the non-busy street for about maybe five minutes at a time.
[02:09.230 --> 02:13.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then for about five seconds, give a green light to the busy thoroughfare.
[02:13.650 --> 02:16.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, what would you do in a situation like that?
[02:16.910 --> 02:23.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, it seems to be reasonable not to obey the irrational machine.
[02:23.090 --> 02:30.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, I would say something like 19 out of 20 people that were at that intersection just sat dutifully in their cars.
[02:30.850 --> 02:33.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sometimes they'd honk, just to sort of relieve the frustration.
[02:33.450 --> 02:37.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: But for the most part, they would just sit there and not do anything.
[02:38.530 --> 02:41.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, you know, maybe they had nothing to do tonight.
[02:41.250 --> 02:45.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe, you know, this was a night out on the town, sitting looking at a traffic light.
[02:46.510 --> 02:53.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, someone like me that most definitely had a place to be at 9 o'clock this evening, it was extremely frustrating.
[02:53.510 --> 02:55.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: But there was nothing, nothing at all I could do.
[02:55.730 --> 03:00.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I don't even have a cellular phone, so I couldn't, you know, do one of those cellular phone commercial things.
[03:00.890 --> 03:04.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: And call up BAI and say, hey, I'm going to be late.
[03:04.870 --> 03:05.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not that that would do any good.
[03:06.090 --> 03:07.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, everybody figured out I was late anyway.
[03:08.670 --> 03:10.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, I was stuck there.
[03:10.470 --> 03:11.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Couldn't even turn around.
[03:11.470 --> 03:13.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Everybody was crammed around each other like sardines.
[03:15.250 --> 03:16.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Watching the light.
[03:16.430 --> 03:17.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Waiting for the light.
[03:17.270 --> 03:21.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, believe me, I'll say it right here, right now, on the radio, I went through that red light.
[03:21.930 --> 03:24.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because, as far as I'm concerned, that red light was invalid.
[03:25.250 --> 03:26.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did not exist.
[03:27.310 --> 03:29.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: When, I mean, where do you draw the line?
[03:29.490 --> 03:36.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, if they give you a half second to go through, and ten minutes to sit there and wait, you know, you're going to go through.
[03:36.590 --> 03:37.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: You have to.
[03:37.530 --> 03:42.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's human logic, as opposed to malfunctioning machine logic.
[03:42.770 --> 03:47.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's the same thing we're always talking about with telephones malfunctioning, computers malfunctioning.
[03:48.250 --> 03:56.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, you can't always believe what is being said, just because it's something technological that's saying it.
[03:57.570 --> 04:02.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, yes, I was 15 minutes late, and I managed to tie it in rather nicely to the program.
[04:02.430 --> 04:08.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: But I am sorry for the inconvenience, and I want to thank everybody for filling in for those 15 minutes there.
[04:09.010 --> 04:10.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's get on with the program.
[04:10.790 --> 04:12.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is our last show of 1991.
[04:13.510 --> 04:14.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: It won't be on next week.
[04:14.450 --> 04:17.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll be on in two weeks for New Year's Day.
[04:17.710 --> 04:32.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: But what I'd like to talk about tonight is your ideas for the future, as far as wishes for technology, wishes for advancements, and perhaps some changes in the way things are structured.
[04:32.470 --> 04:43.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'd like also to call attention to the issue of 2600 that has just come out, because we've got quite a few interesting things that we're looking at.
[04:43.530 --> 04:48.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: As you know, in this program, a number of weeks ago, we talked about simplex locks.
[04:48.450 --> 05:06.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, as of the release of this issue, which was a few days ago, as far as I'm concerned, and as far as other people at the magazine are concerned, simplex locks are completely worthless now, because what we've done is published every possible code that you can use on these things.
[05:06.170 --> 05:08.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, I just went to a locksmith yesterday.
[05:08.890 --> 05:11.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: I love going to locksmiths and asking them questions about these locks.
[05:11.810 --> 05:14.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I asked him, you know, how secure is this thing?
[05:14.890 --> 05:18.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: And he said, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, this thing is incredibly secure.
[05:18.850 --> 05:20.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: 10,000 combinations at the very least.
[05:20.830 --> 05:25.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: And plus you have another little button you can press to give you even more than 10,000.
[05:26.150 --> 05:34.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, we happen to know, because we studied this, and we did lots and lots of research on it, that there's only 1,000 possibilities.
[05:35.350 --> 05:38.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Only 1,000 that anybody knows about.
[05:38.730 --> 05:54.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we simply published 1,000 series of numbers in this magazine with the belief that if you can completely disarm a lock by publishing 1,000 numbers in a magazine, then that lock deserves to be disarmed.
[05:55.030 --> 05:58.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: And anybody that disagrees with that, please disagree with it.
[05:58.410 --> 05:59.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Tell me why you disagree with it.
[05:59.930 --> 06:06.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you feel secure behind a door that's protected by something that anybody who can count can get through?
[06:06.970 --> 06:17.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, as of this issue that we've just put out, we dispel the rumors, the myths about security, non-computer security for a change.
[06:18.550 --> 06:23.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: We also have something on the Dutch hacker intrusion over the summer.
[06:23.870 --> 06:41.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: In fact, there's a videotape that we've released to the public, and we go into quite a bit of detail there about exactly, and I mean exactly how, not what you'll see on these syndicated TV shows, or network TV shows, or local TV shows, or anything like that.
[06:41.870 --> 06:45.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: We go into specific detail and show you exactly what happened.
[06:45.750 --> 06:53.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, it's really the only way to learn, is to see how it was done from the Dutch hacker point of view.
[06:53.450 --> 06:59.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: And perhaps after seeing that, people will realize that it's not the Dutch hackers that are the enemy here.
[06:59.910 --> 07:09.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: In fact, if there's any enemy at all, it's just incompetence, blind trust of technology, you know, the same old thing.
[07:10.550 --> 07:19.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: We also have articles on social security numbers, how your social security number is being used everywhere you go, and it is everywhere.
[07:19.990 --> 07:30.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Your bank account, some states your driver's license, your credit cards, schools, everybody asks you for your social security number these days.
[07:30.990 --> 07:34.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, you don't have to always give your social security number.
[07:35.190 --> 07:35.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Remember that.
[07:35.990 --> 07:37.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: You don't have to always give it.
[07:37.670 --> 07:48.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, we give you some tips, details on what to do if you don't want to give your social security number and still receive the service that you're requesting.
[07:48.510 --> 07:59.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, there's another piece of the magazine that I also want to demonstrate on the air here, if I can get my act together enough to actually dial the telephone here.
[07:59.510 --> 08:03.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, we printed a whole lot of payphone numbers.
[08:04.310 --> 08:17.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Speaking of payphones, by the way, while I was running up here like a madman down 8th Avenue, people might have seen me, I was knocking over old ladies in the street and, you know, jumping over the hoods of taxi cabs.
[08:17.130 --> 08:21.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: I wanted to call upstairs because that's what you have to do here at BAI to get in.
[08:21.610 --> 08:26.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: You have to call and have an elevator come down and get you because there's no other way to get into the building.
[08:27.090 --> 08:30.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what I always do is I always use my cable and wireless code.
[08:30.790 --> 08:39.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, they're one of the few companies that has a 950 service where you dial up and you enter your long distance code and then you make a phone call that way.
[08:39.350 --> 08:44.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: And instead of throwing a quarter into a phone, I can make a local call and it costs me about 9 cents.
[08:45.270 --> 08:47.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Except I pay for it later, you know, when they send me the bill.
[08:48.130 --> 08:49.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I figured I'd do that.
[08:49.290 --> 08:50.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: But guess what I found on 8th Avenue?
[08:50.830 --> 08:53.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Guess what the phone company has done in their infinite wisdom?
[08:54.150 --> 08:57.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: They've replaced touchtone phones with rotary phones.
[08:57.730 --> 08:59.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I can't use that service anymore.
[09:00.030 --> 09:02.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can't use touchtones because it's a rotary dial phone.
[09:03.050 --> 09:04.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, why have they done that?
[09:04.790 --> 09:06.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you know why they've done this?
[09:07.270 --> 09:18.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: In their infinite wisdom to, quote-unquote, get rid of drug dealers, they figure that by installing rotary phones, drug dealers won't be able to use beepers anymore.
[09:18.830 --> 09:24.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: And since drug dealers use beepers to conduct transactions, there'll be no more drug dealers.
[09:24.730 --> 09:25.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Simple as that.
[09:27.030 --> 09:32.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, with that kind of thinking, it's amazing that all the problems of this country just don't evaporate into thin air.
[09:33.630 --> 09:39.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I had to run even further to go to a phone that I could use and finally make a call that way.
[09:39.950 --> 09:42.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: But I'll tell you what a pain that was.
[09:42.870 --> 09:47.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: But to get back to the original point I was making, payphone numbers.
[09:48.110 --> 09:51.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: We printed a thousand payphone numbers in New England.
[09:52.170 --> 09:55.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: And these are payphone numbers, not regular payphones.
[09:55.290 --> 09:57.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: These are, you know, those evil payphones that everybody hates.
[09:57.930 --> 10:00.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: The ones that are different companies.
[10:00.830 --> 10:08.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, they all use, at least the ones we printed, they all use a particular kind of computer.
[10:08.390 --> 10:11.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: And nobody, to my knowledge, has been able to figure this out yet.
[10:11.350 --> 10:17.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, what I'm going to do is actually try and call up one of these on the air.
[10:17.610 --> 10:24.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, I have to do a couple of technical things here first, so I'll just babble about this a little bit.
[10:24.470 --> 10:46.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: These are payphones that are found throughout New England, Rhode Island, Rhode Island, and actually, I dialed the wrong number here, Massachusetts, see if I can name all the New England states, Massachusetts, and Connecticut, and Maine, I believe, too.
[10:46.630 --> 10:48.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, now, let's see if we can get a dial tone here.
[10:53.040 --> 10:54.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't hear a dial tone.
[10:54.540 --> 10:55.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hold on a second.
[10:58.340 --> 11:01.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, there seems to be a problem with with our telephones.
[11:03.410 --> 11:05.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't quite know what the problem is here.
[11:08.040 --> 11:10.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: All these technical things are going wrong.
[11:10.440 --> 11:12.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: This shouldn't be happening.
[11:14.360 --> 11:15.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, we're going to try this all over again.
[11:16.120 --> 11:16.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're going to try it.
[11:17.740 --> 11:18.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I think we have something now.
[11:20.920 --> 11:22.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, let's see if we have a dial tone.
[11:22.740 --> 11:23.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have a dial tone.
[11:23.680 --> 11:26.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, and we're going to dial a number now.
[11:27.320 --> 11:31.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, let's call a number at random in Rhode Island.
[11:37.560 --> 11:41.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, and this phone will ring and a computer will pick up.
[11:42.300 --> 11:45.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, the BAI phone system will instead hang up on us.
[11:45.840 --> 11:48.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's, uh, try that one more time.
[11:54.690 --> 11:56.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just one of those days, folks.
[11:56.190 --> 11:57.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just one of those days.
[12:05.210 --> 12:05.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[12:07.650 --> 12:11.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: You should hear a few rings and a computer pick up.
[12:24.660 --> 12:25.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you.
[12:29.100 --> 12:33.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, that is really what you hear every time you call one of those pay phones.
[12:33.820 --> 12:35.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: You hear the synthesized voice say thank you.
[12:35.600 --> 12:37.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Then you hear four DTMF tones.
[12:37.840 --> 12:44.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm told that at least a couple of those tones are from the hidden fourth row of the touchtone keypad.
[12:44.140 --> 12:49.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: In other words, to the right of one, two, supposed to be another key there.
[12:49.620 --> 12:54.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: We call that A to the right of four, five, six, B, and so on.
[12:54.180 --> 12:55.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: C and D all the way down to the bottom.
[12:55.860 --> 12:58.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: And those tones are of a slightly higher pitch.
[12:59.240 --> 13:01.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, they can be used for all kinds of things.
[13:01.700 --> 13:03.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're used in the military phone system.
[13:03.600 --> 13:05.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, and they're used for testing purposes.
[13:06.020 --> 13:07.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they're also used overseas as well.
[13:08.700 --> 13:11.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, nobody has yet figured out this system.
[13:11.600 --> 13:18.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, since we've printed a thousand of these telephone numbers, we figure somebody's going to get it sooner or later and tell us how it works.
[13:19.080 --> 13:23.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: What you can basically do, we assume, is program the payphone.
[13:23.780 --> 13:28.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: In other words, say how much you're going to charge for certain calls to certain numbers.
[13:28.720 --> 13:30.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Program speed dial numbers.
[13:30.680 --> 13:32.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, change the time of day.
[13:33.820 --> 13:34.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Various things like that.
[13:35.000 --> 13:36.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: And who knows what other features there are.
[13:36.600 --> 13:38.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what we intend to find out.
[13:38.140 --> 13:40.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: And when we do find that out, we'll, of course, spread it around.
[13:40.340 --> 13:45.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: But for now, there's a thousand numbers to work with, enough for everybody to be happy and, uh, hopefully figure things out.
[13:45.420 --> 13:52.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, continuing with what's, um, what's in the latest issue of 2600, we have an article on postal hacking.
[13:52.920 --> 13:57.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, this is, this is something completely different, something we've never done before.
[13:57.680 --> 14:01.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: The post office has some incredible systems that are out there.
[14:01.540 --> 14:13.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you look at your, the letters that are delivered to you, you'll see that, uh, uh, that there's all kinds of, uh, stamps and barcodes and, and all different sorts of systems that allow your mail to be delivered.
[14:13.800 --> 14:17.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what basically we do here is describe what they are.
[14:17.320 --> 14:29.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's, there's one called PostNet, and that has the barcode on the bottom right of your letters that basically tells you what nine-digit zip code or five-digit zip code your mail should go to.
[14:29.800 --> 14:40.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, you can either print that yourself or the post office will read handwriting or typed addresses and figure out what it is and spray on a PostNet code.
[14:40.890 --> 14:47.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, of course, you have no idea what it means, but when you read this article, you'll understand how to read them and how to decode them.
[14:48.260 --> 14:50.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's, um, it's very useful information.
[14:50.380 --> 14:58.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Also, on the top part of the envelope, next to the, where the stamp would be, to the left of where the stamp would be, you might see some, some bars there, too.
[14:58.180 --> 14:59.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, they all mean something as well.
[14:59.620 --> 15:04.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: They mean things like, uh, this, this letter does not need a stamp.
[15:04.640 --> 15:08.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: This letter, uh, does not, uh, have any barcode at the bottom.
[15:09.020 --> 15:10.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: This letter needs a stamp, et cetera, et cetera.
[15:11.320 --> 15:25.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: By using this system, I was able to figure out that a company, a major company that I always send my bill to every month, or send my check to with the bill that they send me, I didn't have to put a stamp on that envelope because they had the wrong barcode there.
[15:25.340 --> 15:31.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, since they had the wrong barcode, if I didn't put a stamp on, it would go through because that barcode said, let this letter go through.
[15:32.380 --> 15:37.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, little bits of information like that will, uh, make everybody's life a little bit easier.
[15:37.360 --> 15:38.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: At least, that's what I hope.
[15:38.720 --> 15:46.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, we have other articles as well, which I won't get into here because, uh, that's not the purpose of the program, but I figured I'd let people know what was happening out there.
[15:47.000 --> 15:51.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: And speaking of what's happening out there, some more disturbing things are going on.
[15:51.560 --> 15:59.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, it's time that people found out about, uh, at least what most people in the computer world know about right now.
[15:59.560 --> 16:01.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we're talking about more raids.
[16:01.700 --> 16:06.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: More raids on hackers or suspected hackers or whatever you want to call them.
[16:07.160 --> 16:11.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, these raids started on December 6th of this year.
[16:11.680 --> 16:18.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they, uh, took place in New York City as well as, uh, Pennsylvania and Washington State.
[16:18.740 --> 16:21.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, we don't know what this is all about, however, we do know this.
[16:21.980 --> 16:25.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: And this is the rather disturbing part of everything.
[16:25.580 --> 16:28.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: We do know what kind of things took place.
[16:28.670 --> 16:41.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, this was a raid that, or a series of raids that was held in conjunction with the United States Secret Service, who have been doing, uh, the vast majority of raids over the past several years.
[16:41.600 --> 16:48.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: The Secret Service seems to, uh, uh, be the entity in charge of finding computer hackers and, uh, bringing them to justice.
[16:48.780 --> 16:56.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: But for the very first time ever, these raids were conducted in cooperation with the FBI.
[16:56.180 --> 16:58.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: The FBI and the Secret Service together.
[16:59.180 --> 17:03.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, everybody's wondering what this means.
[17:03.620 --> 17:10.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, to have two law enforcement agencies, two national law enforcement agencies at once doing this.
[17:10.640 --> 17:11.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, uh, it's different.
[17:11.780 --> 17:13.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: We don't know exactly why it's different.
[17:13.640 --> 17:17.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: We haven't heard word one from them about anything as usual.
[17:17.700 --> 17:22.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, just a lot of equipment seized and quite a few abuses, too.
[17:22.440 --> 17:32.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: And just to, to round out some without getting too specific, because, uh, I'm sure people, uh, don't want to be, uh, uh, named as far as what exactly happened to them.
[17:32.400 --> 17:37.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: But this is what happened as part of this investigation to find computer hackers.
[17:37.780 --> 17:41.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, one, one computer hacker was awoken at gunpoint.
[17:41.800 --> 17:43.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Two guns pointed at him.
[17:43.660 --> 17:46.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, again, this kind of thing has been happening before.
[17:46.760 --> 17:54.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: We thought maybe the publicity that we've raised over, over the past few years might have made it, uh, go away just a little bit.
[17:54.600 --> 17:55.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, it didn't go away.
[17:55.840 --> 17:56.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: It got worse.
[17:56.540 --> 18:08.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Two guns pointed at him as he was sleeping, uh, forced with the rest of his family to sit on a couch for hours while they went through the entire house and not allowed to move from the couch.
[18:09.040 --> 18:14.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, and this was member, other members of family that, uh, had nothing to do with anything, obviously.
[18:15.220 --> 18:30.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, other people, an Hispanic family, for instance, being ordered not to speak Spanish while the agents were, uh, searching the house, being ordered at gunpoint not to speak a certain language because, uh, it made them nervous.
[18:30.970 --> 18:36.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Another person having a diploma ripped up by agents of the Secret Service and the FBI.
[18:37.720 --> 18:38.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, things like that.
[18:39.200 --> 18:51.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, they were, um, by all accounts that I've been able to, uh, uh, to get over the past, uh, couple of weeks, uh, this was one of the most, uh, um, hostile of raids.
[18:51.320 --> 18:55.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: If, if raids can be considered not hostile, this was definitely one of the more hostile ones.
[18:56.460 --> 19:02.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, there was, uh, instead of the usual incompetence, it just seemed to be, uh, a very ominous feel to this one.
[19:03.200 --> 19:04.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: We don't know where it's leading.
[19:04.660 --> 19:05.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: We don't know what it's all about.
[19:06.120 --> 19:14.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: However, uh, we do know that, uh, there are some liberties taken, and not just the liberties of the people who were raided, some, some very definite liberties.
[19:14.920 --> 19:19.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, perhaps the worst instance of them all took place in Washington state.
[19:20.140 --> 19:26.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's where a computer system, uh, that was tied into the internet was seized.
[19:26.560 --> 19:39.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, this computer system was, uh, simply a link to the internet, and the system operator, system administrator of that particular system, known as BLEGA, and, uh, it has a more in-depth address on the internet.
[19:40.180 --> 19:46.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: That particular system, uh, was simply a link.
[19:46.440 --> 19:49.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: In other words, a hacker had an account.
[19:49.440 --> 20:02.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: A suspected hacker had an account on that particular system, was given an account by the system administrator, and because of that action, because the system administrator gave this hacker an account on his system.
[20:02.820 --> 20:05.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: His entire system was seized.
[20:05.640 --> 20:13.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, this is the kind of thing that, uh, uh, that reminds a lot of us of, uh, the Steve Jackson affair of, uh, a couple of years ago.
[20:13.620 --> 20:23.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's where a publisher in Austin, Texas was almost shut down because he was alleged to have had ties with a hacker.
[20:24.210 --> 20:34.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, this is the kind of thing that, uh, that really makes people that know something about freedom, uh, pause a moment and say this is going just a little bit too far.
[20:35.660 --> 20:44.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: We don't know more, too much more about, uh, what was happening there, but the way it appears now, the way it appears now, this, uh, system administrator has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
[20:44.920 --> 20:50.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: His only connection to this whole mess was that he had a hacker on his computer system.
[20:50.290 --> 20:54.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, for that, his entire system, which was quite a system, too.
[20:54.460 --> 20:59.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was a Next computer, which, uh, if you don't know about those machines, they're, they're amazing machines.
[21:00.080 --> 21:04.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm sure, uh, it was a really nice, uh, system to have.
[21:04.200 --> 21:05.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, that has been seized.
[21:05.600 --> 21:07.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: In many cases, these machines are never given back.
[21:08.080 --> 21:11.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, I'm not sure what else was seized from that particular location.
[21:11.940 --> 21:14.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, we have, uh, people living in fear.
[21:14.380 --> 21:15.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have abuses of people's rights.
[21:15.880 --> 21:18.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we still don't know what is going on.
[21:18.300 --> 21:19.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, that's where it stands.
[21:20.420 --> 21:21.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's, uh, what we know.
[21:22.060 --> 21:27.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we welcome your phone calls now at 212-279-3400.
[21:27.290 --> 21:28.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: The program is off the hook.
[21:28.960 --> 21:30.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: My name's Manuel Goldstein.
[21:31.290 --> 21:33.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, I'm trying to make up for lost time here.
[21:33.620 --> 21:36.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, we'll, uh, we'll try to rifle through the phone calls as much as possible.
[21:36.360 --> 21:44.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Basically, we'd like to know, uh, how you feel about these controversial issues and what you're looking forward to in the year ahead.
[21:44.820 --> 21:50.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you think we've, uh, accomplished anything in the last year, you know, are we getting further technology-wise?
[21:51.160 --> 21:53.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are we losing our, our freedoms and rights?
[21:54.060 --> 22:02.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: And now that there is no more evil empire, is it even going to be in the authority's interest to make everything fine and dandy?
[22:03.500 --> 22:06.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, the holdup, uh, for comparison's sake.
[22:06.740 --> 22:10.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: 212-279-3400 is our telephone number.
[22:10.520 --> 22:12.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's, uh, see who's out there.
[22:13.500 --> 22:14.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[22:14.300 --> 22:15.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, hi.
[22:15.620 --> 22:15.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: How are you doing?
[22:16.040 --> 22:16.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Turn on your radio, please.
[22:16.820 --> 22:18.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know, I can't believe I did that.
[22:18.640 --> 22:19.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, it's okay.
[22:19.400 --> 22:27.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: I wanted to ask you, um, if you know anything about, uh, what they're supposedly using out on Long Island now, instead of radar to detect your speed, uh, laser.
[22:27.880 --> 22:29.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: I wanted to ask you if you know anything about that.
[22:30.930 --> 22:41.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, and, let's see, did you play, I was just wondering, a couple of, a couple of weeks ago, or maybe three weeks ago, uh, the music from, um, Fantastic Planet on your show?
[22:44.300 --> 22:46.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was, uh, yeah, probably about maybe three or four weeks ago.
[22:47.120 --> 22:51.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was pretty bizarre because I just rented the movie, uh, and everyone else fell asleep.
[22:52.670 --> 22:53.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Really?
[22:53.120 --> 22:53.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's, that's so sad.
[22:54.120 --> 22:55.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Stuck in my head because it was like two in the morning.
[22:56.340 --> 22:58.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you wouldn't believe what I had to go through to get that record.
[22:59.000 --> 23:00.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well, I can imagine it.
[23:00.280 --> 23:01.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have, I'm a rare record collector.
[23:01.840 --> 23:07.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm talking about bribery, I'm talking about, you know, a fair amount of, uh, backstabbing, but I did get it finally.
[23:07.740 --> 23:08.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll mention one more thing.
[23:08.500 --> 23:09.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm a, um, court reporter.
[23:09.900 --> 23:11.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: I work in criminal court, civil court.
[23:12.060 --> 23:25.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I don't even want to say what state it's in, but, because I don't want to jeopardize my job, but, um, a lot of the reason they haven't replaced us with technology, and it's probably possible, is because people say things which are very embarrassing,
[23:25.700 --> 23:27.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: which could cause them to lose their jobs.
[23:30.280 --> 23:31.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: is when to cover up for their boss.
[23:32.080 --> 23:35.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, I'll leave the audience with that thought, and, uh, I bid you adieu.
[23:35.980 --> 23:37.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, well, thanks for calling.
[23:37.740 --> 23:39.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: You'll never be able to replace human beings.
[23:39.740 --> 23:40.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've always said that.
[23:40.600 --> 23:40.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[23:42.320 --> 23:42.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hello?
[23:44.540 --> 23:45.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Speak up, please.
[23:45.680 --> 23:46.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello?
[23:46.300 --> 23:46.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, go ahead.
[23:47.060 --> 23:48.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: A couple of brief questions.
[23:48.600 --> 23:52.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: First, what was the name, uh, of the book of the man you had on last week?
[23:52.780 --> 23:55.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: His name was, uh, Schwarzkow or something?
[23:55.260 --> 23:56.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, Wynn-Schwartow.
[23:56.280 --> 23:57.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: The book was Terminal Compromise.
[23:58.390 --> 23:59.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Who publishes that?
[23:59.320 --> 24:06.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, you know, I don't know for sure, but for some reason, the name Simon & Schuster is sticking in my head, but I, don't, don't hold me to that.
[24:06.660 --> 24:06.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[24:07.480 --> 24:14.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, those four, uh, keys that you mentioned to the right, uh, the A, B, C, D, uh, keys.
[24:14.520 --> 24:19.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you took your, uh, case off your phone, would you find, would there be a way to access them?
[24:19.780 --> 24:30.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's a way, it's called, uh, building a silver box, because that's, that's what it's called when you, when you change what is known as a white box, which is a regular touch tone pad, uh, and add the four extra keys, it's called a silver box.
[24:30.740 --> 24:38.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, to the best of my knowledge, every touch tone pad has the capability of, uh, of adding that fourth column, because the tones are already there.
[24:38.900 --> 24:41.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Every time you hit a touch tone, it's actually, uh, it's kind of a grid.
[24:41.680 --> 24:45.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, it's taking one tone and adding another tone to it and making a unique sound.
[24:45.400 --> 24:48.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, so it's already there, it just is not on your face plate.
[24:49.200 --> 24:54.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you were to hit two, uh, keys together, would you get a unique tone or would it, uh...
[24:54.760 --> 24:58.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's different for every, uh, every kind of a phone.
[24:58.440 --> 24:59.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: For instance, I have a phone here.
[24:59.760 --> 25:00.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, I'm going to hit a one.
[25:01.170 --> 25:01.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay?
[25:01.700 --> 25:02.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, I'm going to hit a three.
[25:03.480 --> 25:06.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, if I hit a one and a three together, I get that.
[25:06.600 --> 25:07.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, that's different.
[25:07.420 --> 25:11.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's different, but it's not, it's not, uh, the, the, the A or the B or the C or the D.
[25:11.860 --> 25:15.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, uh, I don't even know what it is, to be honest.
[25:15.780 --> 25:18.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, uh, it's something different, but it's not that.
[25:18.640 --> 25:19.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: I see.
[25:19.100 --> 25:23.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, you have to, um, you have to follow instructions and do some kind of, uh, a modification.
[25:24.420 --> 25:33.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm, I'm not electronically inclined, so I can't really, uh, tell you exactly what to do, uh, but there are numerous, uh, documents out on, on building a silver box.
[25:33.740 --> 25:41.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, can you tell what key is being hit from the sound if you train your ear?
[25:41.160 --> 25:42.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you train your ear, you can.
[25:42.800 --> 25:44.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: In fact, I know people that can do that.
[25:44.720 --> 25:49.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, it does take a fair amount of skill, and I, I'm not sure if you can actually train yourself to do it.
[25:50.020 --> 25:52.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: I believe you can if you're good, if you have a musical ear.
[25:53.500 --> 25:54.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've tried.
[25:54.220 --> 25:55.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: I really can't.
[25:55.200 --> 25:59.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can, I can tell a pound sign from a one, but then again, I think anybody can do that.
[25:59.120 --> 26:01.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, that was the last question I had.
[26:01.360 --> 26:13.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Could you, um, talk a bit, if not now, sometime, uh, give some time to the pound and the, uh, the star, um, keys and what they're all about and what can be done with them?
[26:13.840 --> 26:27.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, basically, the, the star and the pound are used for, um, for various features both within, uh, things like voice mail systems, uh, alternate long-distance companies, in fact, even, even local phone company programming, for instance, uh, if you want to,
[26:27.800 --> 26:31.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: uh, uh, cancel your call waiting, you would hit star seven zero.
[26:31.900 --> 26:32.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[26:32.220 --> 26:39.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, if you want to make an overseas call, you dial 011 in the number and you finish it with a pound sign, which tells it that you've finished dialing, sort of like a return key.
[26:40.200 --> 26:40.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: I see.
[26:40.720 --> 26:44.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, it's basically used for outside of, of number kind of a thing.
[26:44.580 --> 26:51.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, um, if you're, if you're calling a voice mail system, you might hit a pound to say, uh, this is the end of my command.
[26:51.480 --> 26:53.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: You might hit a star to say I'm entering a command here.
[26:54.060 --> 26:59.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, it's, it's user programmable on those kind of systems and the phone company uses it quite a bit too.
[26:59.340 --> 27:04.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, it's a shame that we're not using those other four because we would simply open things up quite a bit more.
[27:04.140 --> 27:07.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'd be able to have all kinds of, uh, I thought it would be a great expansion, wouldn't it?
[27:07.780 --> 27:08.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it would.
[27:08.420 --> 27:09.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hopefully someday we'll do it.
[27:09.620 --> 27:13.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course, we'd have to replace all the phones that are out now or modify them in some way.
[27:13.780 --> 27:16.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: What does star to pound do?
[27:16.880 --> 27:22.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's, I know there's something special, or star, or, uh, pounds to star.
[27:23.240 --> 27:25.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, well, where are you doing it from?
[27:25.320 --> 27:27.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: What kind of, uh, just from a regular dial tone?
[27:27.480 --> 27:27.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[27:27.840 --> 27:29.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, what do you, uh, you see, it's different in every area.
[27:29.860 --> 27:30.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: What do you get when you do that?
[27:31.860 --> 27:32.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: I get nothing.
[27:32.980 --> 27:33.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't hear anything.
[27:34.020 --> 27:34.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: You don't hear anything?
[27:34.840 --> 27:37.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you, can you continue dialing something else afterwards?
[27:37.340 --> 27:44.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, a couple of, a couple of hits, and then, um, you're, you're calling it, calling it cannot be completed.
[27:45.040 --> 27:52.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, what I suggest you do is, if you ever get to a, a, a, a part where it's silent, it's, it's waiting for something else, uh, you do it sequentially.
[27:52.920 --> 28:02.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: In other words, if, in your case, pound two, star, zero, zero, and if you get a sound, then pound two, star, zero, one, et cetera, until you go through every possibility.
[28:02.440 --> 28:03.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't really take that long.
[28:03.960 --> 28:07.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then what happens, uh, if there's anything in there, you'll find it.
[28:07.380 --> 28:07.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: I see what you mean.
[28:07.900 --> 28:11.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then you, you wait for the one where there's no interruption.
[28:11.860 --> 28:12.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[28:12.300 --> 28:13.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: And sometimes there isn't one.
[28:13.820 --> 28:15.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, it doesn't always pay off, but sometimes there is.
[28:15.920 --> 28:26.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: For instance, if, if I was, uh, out looking for a, a voicemail name, and this is something I've done in the past, uh, some voicemail systems allow you to spell out the name.
[28:26.600 --> 28:26.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[28:26.820 --> 28:29.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: So let's say I was, I was looking for somebody named Smith.
[28:29.780 --> 28:35.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: I would be spelling out, uh, on the touchtone keypad, seven, six, four, eight, four.
[28:36.560 --> 28:36.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[28:36.800 --> 28:37.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[28:37.740 --> 28:46.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, now if I was scanning for something, I would first go seven, six, three, and it would say, there is no seven, six, three.
[28:46.500 --> 28:49.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: So then I would go seven, six, four, S M I.
[28:49.540 --> 28:49.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: I see.
[28:49.880 --> 28:50.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it would be silent.
[28:50.840 --> 28:51.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's waiting for something else.
[28:51.980 --> 28:55.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or I'd go seven, six, four, two, and it would say there is no seven, six, four, two.
[28:56.040 --> 28:56.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: I see.
[28:56.280 --> 28:57.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: It would go seven, six, four, three.
[28:58.000 --> 29:02.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Eventually I would get to seven, six, four, eight, S M I T.
[29:02.580 --> 29:06.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I would know that I'm onto something and I would I just keep doing it until I spell it out.
[29:06.960 --> 29:07.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is that right?
[29:07.480 --> 29:07.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sorry?
[29:08.080 --> 29:09.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's basically reductionist.
[29:10.040 --> 29:12.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, well, it's a skill that every hacker needs.
[29:12.580 --> 29:12.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[29:12.900 --> 29:18.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: The ability to sit and do something that a lot of people would think is a waste of time because it pays off in the end.
[29:18.360 --> 29:20.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is that only with the two?
[29:20.400 --> 29:24.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is that special and not star one pound?
[29:24.200 --> 29:26.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you see, I think that's unique to your particular system.
[29:27.040 --> 29:27.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[29:27.620 --> 29:29.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not sure what kind of a system you have.
[29:30.360 --> 29:33.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: I imagine it's different in different places.
[29:33.540 --> 29:34.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, Manhattan.
[29:34.360 --> 29:35.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the Manhattan.
[29:35.620 --> 29:36.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[29:36.180 --> 29:38.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you could have a 5 ESS.
[29:38.240 --> 29:40.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: You could have a 1A ESS, a DMS-100.
[29:40.400 --> 29:42.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's all different kinds of switching systems.
[29:42.360 --> 29:44.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: You might be on a PBX, for all we know.
[29:45.320 --> 29:48.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, you know, where I am, it's a crossbar.
[29:48.380 --> 29:52.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: So if I hit a pound, I'm going to get a fast busy right away, so I won't even be able to get to the two.
[29:52.240 --> 29:53.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is it all Manhattan the same?
[29:54.840 --> 29:55.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, it's not.
[29:55.720 --> 29:56.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[29:56.040 --> 29:56.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not the same.
[29:57.320 --> 29:58.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe one day it will be.
[29:58.580 --> 30:03.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: I sort of dread that day because now we have differences, you know.
[30:03.140 --> 30:05.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Different areas do different things, and I think it's kind of interesting.
[30:05.940 --> 30:06.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[30:06.720 --> 30:07.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, thanks very much.
[30:07.840 --> 30:08.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, thanks for calling.
[30:09.260 --> 30:10.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Program is off the hook.
[30:10.440 --> 30:11.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're on the air until 10 o'clock.
[30:12.260 --> 30:27.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: And by the way, if people are concerned about the latest instances of hacker roundups, by all means, contact us at the magazine, and, you know, we'll keep you on the list for more information as it comes in.
[30:28.120 --> 30:35.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: If there's any kind of help you can offer to look into these kind of things, we're certainly interested in pooling resources.
[30:36.140 --> 30:39.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: The number out there is 516-751-2600.
[30:41.560 --> 30:47.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you learn anything, please let us know because it's of interest to all of us, not just computer hackers.
[30:47.360 --> 30:48.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: I want to make that very clear.
[30:49.500 --> 30:53.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: When freedoms are impinged upon, it should be of concern to everybody.
[30:53.600 --> 31:02.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Whether you agree with what hackers stand for, if they stand for anything, or whether you, you know, you stand behind everything that you think they stand for.
[31:03.660 --> 31:07.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: When something like this happens, we all have to at least know what's going on.
[31:08.420 --> 31:10.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, 279-3400.
[31:10.540 --> 31:11.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[31:11.800 --> 31:12.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi.
[31:12.300 --> 31:12.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: How you doing?
[31:13.560 --> 31:14.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is the AI?
[31:14.500 --> 31:15.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, you're on the air.
[31:15.260 --> 31:23.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I was going to ask you, what was that service that you said you use, you were trying to call up to the station with, but because it was rotary, you couldn't do it?
[31:24.760 --> 31:26.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Basically, it's a 950 service.
[31:26.660 --> 31:29.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, there are several different 950 services.
[31:29.180 --> 31:36.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: However, both MCI and Sprint see fit to start eliminating it, in fact, not offering it to new customers.
[31:37.240 --> 31:43.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: The only companies I've been able to find that do offer it are Metromedia and Cable and Wireless.
[31:43.840 --> 31:46.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: If there's others, please, I'd like for our listeners to let me out.
[31:46.520 --> 31:46.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: 9 cents a call?
[31:47.340 --> 31:50.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, basically, what they do is they charge you by the minute.
[31:50.260 --> 31:55.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, if you're only on for, say, 30 seconds or so, you won't have to pay an entire quarter.
[31:55.940 --> 32:01.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course, you'll get five minutes out of the quarter, but if you're only making a one-minute call, you only spend for the amount of time you stay on.
[32:02.280 --> 32:04.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that will work anywhere, I think, in the state.
[32:05.020 --> 32:12.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: In other words, I could call Westchester from the middle of Manhattan at a payphone with no coin, stay on for a minute, and pay nine cents as well.
[32:13.460 --> 32:13.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[32:14.400 --> 32:15.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, how does one find out about this?
[32:15.940 --> 32:19.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's like using a calling card without the surcharge.
[32:20.160 --> 32:22.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's like making a home phone call.
[32:22.320 --> 32:22.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[32:22.480 --> 32:23.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: I want to get one of these.
[32:23.780 --> 32:26.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, now, as far as I know, you can still get them from Cable and Wireless.
[32:27.420 --> 32:30.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: If not, you know, come back and let me know about it.
[32:30.580 --> 32:35.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the best way to get it, I think this will work.
[32:35.800 --> 32:39.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Dial their 950 number, which is 950-0223.
[32:39.680 --> 32:40.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[32:40.140 --> 32:41.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, you need a touch-tone phone for this.
[32:41.700 --> 32:42.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I got one.
[32:42.240 --> 32:45.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: When you get the tone, dial 811.
[32:45.400 --> 32:45.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hang on.
[32:45.760 --> 32:48.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, 950-0223.
[32:48.820 --> 32:49.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: 950-0223.
[32:50.340 --> 32:51.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then dial 811.
[32:51.620 --> 32:53.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they should be able to help you.
[32:53.280 --> 32:56.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can tell them that, you know, that you heard it on the radio or something like that.
[32:57.060 --> 33:00.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: And maybe that will make them stand up and take notice a little bit more.
[33:00.220 --> 33:03.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because sometimes it is a real hassle to get things out of these phone companies.
[33:03.800 --> 33:05.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: What's the name of the service that I should be asking about?
[33:05.700 --> 33:08.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's a card.
[33:08.800 --> 33:11.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: I guess they call it a calling card of some sort.
[33:11.340 --> 33:13.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you don't want one that has a surcharge.
[33:13.560 --> 33:15.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: You want to use the 950 service.
[33:15.520 --> 33:15.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[33:16.160 --> 33:18.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's something that I think everybody should get.
[33:18.380 --> 33:19.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, it makes so much sense.
[33:19.400 --> 33:22.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Everybody gets their AT&T calling card, right?
[33:22.280 --> 33:23.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you have one of those?
[33:23.660 --> 33:27.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I've just recently got an MCI one, but I'm not going to use it.
[33:27.080 --> 33:27.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[33:27.280 --> 33:27.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Same difference.
[33:27.980 --> 33:29.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's a surcharge.
[33:29.280 --> 33:29.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[33:29.620 --> 33:30.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Whenever you use it.
[33:30.760 --> 33:31.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who needs it, right?
[33:31.400 --> 33:34.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't understand the purpose because it's a calling card.
[33:34.520 --> 33:35.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: What else is it used for?
[33:35.760 --> 33:39.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: You put a surcharge if you're doing something different than what the thing is intended for.
[33:39.820 --> 33:40.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's sort of like a penalty.
[33:40.980 --> 33:43.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: But a calling card is used to make calls.
[33:43.300 --> 33:44.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's all it can do.
[33:44.360 --> 33:48.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: So to charge a surcharge every time you use it, I don't understand that at all.
[33:48.880 --> 33:51.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Whereas the 950 numbers, there's no surcharge.
[33:52.200 --> 33:52.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[33:52.560 --> 33:57.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: You just make a call and, you know, you're charged for the call from any pay phone.
[33:57.120 --> 34:00.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I think it's limited to a particular area.
[34:00.080 --> 34:03.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: For instance, if you're in 212, it will only work from 212 and 718.
[34:04.260 --> 34:04.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: I see.
[34:04.780 --> 34:06.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: But it won't work from 914.
[34:06.280 --> 34:10.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: You were asking about predictions for the future, what people dread or what people expect to happen.
[34:11.100 --> 34:11.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[34:12.040 --> 34:21.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: I imagine in a few years' time, you'll be able to... your phone will be connected to a computer and to an audio and video system.
[34:21.480 --> 34:27.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you'll be able to call up and hear any music, see any film, and things like that.
[34:27.780 --> 34:28.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[34:28.060 --> 34:29.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's the ISDN dream of the future.
[34:29.960 --> 34:31.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Everything is integrated together.
[34:32.020 --> 34:35.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: It can also be a nightmare if too many things are integrated together.
[34:35.700 --> 34:45.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: In other words, let's say there's a particular kind of electronic lock on your door that registers every time you walk into your house and every time you walk out of your house.
[34:45.940 --> 34:50.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Very easy way to track people, to know where somebody is at any particular moment.
[34:50.160 --> 34:51.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Who would put such a lock on?
[34:51.420 --> 34:54.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, let's say, you know, it's part of your phone system.
[34:54.260 --> 35:00.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's say, you know, we evolved to the state where, you know, everything is controlled by wires coming into your house.
[35:00.910 --> 35:04.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Everything from your microwave oven to your TV set to your security system.
[35:04.520 --> 35:07.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, a lot of security systems are run over phone lines now.
[35:08.160 --> 35:15.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it would not be too hard to envision something in the future where your presence would be known at just about every moment.
[35:15.960 --> 35:20.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's say everybody has a personal telephone that they carry with them at all times.
[35:20.460 --> 35:23.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe with your social security number as the number that you dial.
[35:23.960 --> 35:27.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, it would be a real nightmare because you would never be able to get away.
[35:27.370 --> 35:27.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[35:27.720 --> 35:36.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: And lastly, these people who were, these hackers who were, who were busted or who were, you know, the FBI and the Secret Service...
[35:36.890 --> 35:38.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: They came and raided their homes.
[35:38.870 --> 35:39.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's really what happened.
[35:39.280 --> 35:44.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Can you think of any, anything that they were doing that would justify that?
[35:44.960 --> 35:49.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, can you think of the justification from the point of the law enforcement agency?
[35:49.160 --> 35:57.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I really can't think of anything that would warrant waking somebody up at gunpoint that is obviously, you know, just a kid.
[35:58.000 --> 36:02.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I mean, these people don't engage in gangsterism.
[36:03.460 --> 36:07.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: But what crime have they committed, do you think?
[36:07.910 --> 36:11.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have no idea what they're after, what they think they've got.
[36:12.080 --> 36:13.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Whatever it is, they must think it's pretty big.
[36:13.740 --> 36:19.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: But based upon everything I've seen in the past where they think something is pretty big, it turns out really to be nothing at all.
[36:19.580 --> 36:21.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, or just something overblown a bit.
[36:23.040 --> 36:29.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: They don't have the power to launch nuclear weapons or to crash satellites or anything like that.
[36:29.740 --> 36:37.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: And whatever power they do have is purely through security flaws, which probably are still just as wide open as they were in the first place.
[36:38.080 --> 36:38.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Huh.
[36:38.680 --> 36:39.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[36:39.580 --> 36:40.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks very much.
[36:40.640 --> 36:40.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[36:41.240 --> 36:41.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bye-bye.
[36:41.560 --> 36:44.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course, we need to deal with crime.
[36:44.780 --> 36:49.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: But for some reason, when you inject computers into it, everybody gets hysterical.
[36:49.640 --> 36:50.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know?
[36:50.460 --> 36:56.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, we're dealing with kids that are wandering around looking at things maybe they shouldn't be looking at.
[36:56.540 --> 37:09.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: But when's the last time you were held at gunpoint for wandering through an office complex or a hospital or a haunted house?
[37:09.520 --> 37:10.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Think about it.
[37:10.240 --> 37:11.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[37:12.480 --> 37:12.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hello?
[37:13.140 --> 37:13.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, go ahead.
[37:14.410 --> 37:15.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: Is this Emmanuel Goldstein?
[37:15.450 --> 37:15.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, it is.
[37:16.020 --> 37:16.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the air.
[37:16.640 --> 37:16.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
[37:18.560 --> 37:24.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: I was wondering, you went through this once before, the procedure for getting your own phone to ring?
[37:25.500 --> 37:26.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's different.
[37:26.780 --> 37:28.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: What location are you at?
[37:28.640 --> 37:29.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in Manhattan.
[37:29.460 --> 37:30.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're in Manhattan.
[37:30.660 --> 37:33.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's got something to do with 660 where you are.
[37:33.340 --> 37:36.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Perhaps 660 plus your last four digits.
[37:37.280 --> 37:42.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Some areas is 660 plus seven digits, which would be your entire phone number.
[37:42.910 --> 37:45.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Other times it's 660 and some random code.
[37:47.340 --> 37:54.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Really the way it works, you dial 660 and something, you get a dial tone, another dial tone, and you flash your receiver.
[37:54.720 --> 38:00.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: In other words, you hang up and pick up again, and you get a different tone, and then when you hang that up, it should ring back.
[38:00.460 --> 38:01.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: But there's no guarantee.
[38:04.200 --> 38:04.600]  Okay.
[38:04.600 --> 38:11.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: Also, if I'm interested in subscribing to 2600, I should just call that number that you gave before?
[38:11.560 --> 38:11.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[38:11.800 --> 38:12.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: All the information is there.
[38:12.800 --> 38:15.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can just call and get it that way.
[38:15.620 --> 38:15.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[38:16.220 --> 38:16.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[38:16.780 --> 38:17.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[38:17.180 --> 38:17.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks a lot.
[38:17.740 --> 38:17.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[38:18.160 --> 38:18.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[38:18.370 --> 38:18.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
[38:20.400 --> 38:21.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: 279-3400.
[38:21.390 --> 38:22.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[38:22.460 --> 38:25.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: You said a lot of good things, and that last call wasted a lot of air time.
[38:26.410 --> 38:34.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, you know, the point is that WBAI ought to have a day or a week to discuss how WBAI can stay afloat.
[38:34.960 --> 38:43.870]  [SPEAKER_00]: Because if you saw the latest pie chart, annual report there, it shows that only half of the monies that come into WBAI are from listener support.
[38:44.140 --> 38:45.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: You understand, Emanuel?
[38:45.620 --> 38:48.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, yeah, but try to stick to the issue of this program, okay?
[38:48.600 --> 39:04.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Emanuel, you're one of the most intelligent people on the air, and I'm appealing to the fact that you're listeners, and you see that Andrew Phillips and Valerie Van Isla will have this kind of a program, because we have to get the creative talent that's here to do something to get... Now,
[39:04.280 --> 39:04.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: look.
[39:04.800 --> 39:07.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: The computer show has three guys running it, right?
[39:07.520 --> 39:08.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Why not a woman?
[39:08.480 --> 39:10.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is a sexist situation.
[39:10.320 --> 39:12.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care if she's not the smartest person.
[39:12.600 --> 39:16.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they know more than she does, but they can uplift as well as, you know what I mean?
[39:16.980 --> 39:17.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, yeah.
[39:17.500 --> 39:23.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, I think we're getting into some things here that would take a couple of hours to go through.
[39:24.300 --> 39:28.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Interesting ideas, but we just don't have time for that right now.
[39:29.120 --> 39:31.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: I see no problem with creativity here at BAI.
[39:31.680 --> 39:36.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: In fact, this is the one creative outlet that there is in New York City, and I hope it remains creative.
[39:36.780 --> 39:37.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Again, that's up to our listeners.
[39:38.370 --> 39:40.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: If our listeners support us, we'll always be here.
[39:41.140 --> 39:41.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[39:41.980 --> 39:42.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[39:42.340 --> 39:43.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: Can I speak to Emmanuel, or...
[39:43.780 --> 39:47.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you're on the air, and you're speaking to all of the tri-state area, so that's going to have to do.
[39:47.740 --> 39:48.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[39:48.980 --> 39:52.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Can you give that 950 information, the 2600 number again?
[39:52.280 --> 39:54.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Both of that information... Yeah, okay.
[39:54.340 --> 40:03.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: The 2600 number is 516-751-2600, and the cable and wireless information, dial 950-0223.
[40:03.760 --> 40:08.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: At the sound of the tone, dial 811, and you should be speaking to a representative of some sort.
[40:09.120 --> 40:13.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Another service that offers 950 is Metro Media.
[40:13.460 --> 40:14.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't have their number.
[40:14.890 --> 40:16.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: They've got an 800 number, though.
[40:16.260 --> 40:18.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: You call 800 Information, ask for Metro Media.
[40:18.720 --> 40:27.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you're really persistent, you might be able to even get it out of MCI, and out of Sprint as well, or any other long-distance company, because they all have 950 numbers.
[40:28.080 --> 40:32.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's just they don't give them out to people anymore, and I think that's a real shame.
[40:32.680 --> 40:34.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's see if we can fit in one more phone call.
[40:34.660 --> 40:35.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[40:35.840 --> 40:36.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: You mean, Emmanuel?
[40:37.100 --> 40:37.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, go ahead, quickly.
[40:38.040 --> 40:40.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: I have some speculation on the hacker issue.
[40:40.430 --> 40:40.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, go ahead.
[40:41.060 --> 40:44.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's the cyberpunk movement in general that they're paranoid of.
[40:45.080 --> 40:46.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: What is the cyberpunk movement?
[40:47.020 --> 40:51.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the cyberpunk movement would be... It's based on the book Neuromancer.
[40:52.560 --> 40:53.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: By William Gibson.
[40:54.080 --> 40:54.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, okay.
[40:54.760 --> 41:04.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: In a world basically kind of controlled and manipulated and whatever by hackers.
[41:04.760 --> 41:07.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, really, we have about 20 seconds, so...
[41:07.100 --> 41:09.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, because there's a group called Negative Land.
[41:09.220 --> 41:09.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[41:09.720 --> 41:10.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, out west.
[41:11.020 --> 41:14.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're very heavily involved in this, and they're getting busted left and right.
[41:15.120 --> 41:24.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I would say the cyberpunk movement would be best generalized as people who are infiltrating the system, and they're afraid of it coming down.
[41:25.140 --> 41:33.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're afraid of people like Michael Synergy going in and taking down the Pentagon and Wall Street and et cetera, because they have said they could do that.
[41:33.600 --> 41:35.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, well, they certainly are afraid.
[41:35.340 --> 41:39.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think that's something that has no argument there, and there certainly are a lot of vulnerabilities.
[41:39.840 --> 41:43.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Unfortunately, our vulnerability right now is time, and we are out of it.
[41:49.900 --> 41:51.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is Off the Hook.
[41:51.720 --> 41:56.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: We've been here for the past, well, only 45 minutes, but we'll be back again in two weeks.
[41:56.640 --> 41:58.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not next week, two weeks from now.
[41:58.360 --> 42:00.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show.
[42:00.140 --> 42:01.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Remember to stay awake.
[42:02.340 --> 42:07.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Keep your eyes open for abuses of all sorts, and new technology of all sorts as well.
[42:07.900 --> 42:10.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: And while you're at it, have a nice holiday.
[42:10.640 --> 42:11.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: See you in two weeks.
[42:11.220 --> 42:12.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Expect the worst.
[42:13.560 --> 42:15.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: I hope that's understood.
[42:15.560 --> 42:16.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Monday, let me go!