...Center, 647 Columbus Avenue at 91st Street.
For more information, call 246-3811, extension 589.
That's 246-3811, extension 589.
This has been a public service on behalf of the International Working Women's Day Committee, 92.
Often sung in church and on happy occasions, these words...
And you're listening to WBAI in New York.
Time for a special edition of Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
Bom Diddley Bom, for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bom Diddley Bom!
Thank you.
Then, wake me not, I pray you, hush, speak low.
Thank you.
That everyone stands amazed at the sight thereof.
And it is an amazing sight.
And Michelangelo has not left us.
In fact, it's just around the corner.
I'm going down on the streets and I'm feeling fine.
But you want to fight me and I don't know why.
Do you want to fight me and I don't know why.
But you turn on me, I'll see you fly.
Well, let's fight me and I don't know why.
Tonight, you want to fight me and I don't know why.
I don't know why.
I don't know why.
But we'll do it now until it's light.
Well, let's write the law here tonight
Oh, tonight
Tonight
They want to lock me up and go with my king
Well, let's write the law tonight
Here we give her the law for tonight
Well, someone's certainly broken the law in the last couple of months
The Michelangelo virus is spreading wildly all over the place
And on March 6th, which more people know now than ever before
March 6th is Michelangelo's birthday
And wouldn't he be proud?
I'd like to quote something from the Little Black Book of Computer Viruses
A wonderful guide to the many different viruses that are out there
And then we'll get into what Michelangelo is
We'll have special guests, your phone calls
And we'll also be talking about this at 10 o'clock on the Personal Computer Show
It's one of those special things
Now, most problems people have with computers are simply their own fault
For example, they accidentally delete all the files in their current directory
Rather than in another directory
As they intended
Or perhaps they format the wrong disk
Perhaps someone routinely does something wrong out of ignorance
Like turning the computer off in the middle of a program
Causing files to get scrambled
Following close on the heels of these kinds of problems are hardware problems
Like a misaligned floppy drive
Or a hard disk failure
These kind of routine problems are made worse than necessary
When users do not plan for them
And fail to back up their work on a regular basis
And this stupidity
Can easily turn a problem that might have cost $300
For a new hard disk into a nightmare
Which will ultimately cost tens of thousands of dollars
And when such a disaster happens
It's human nature to want to find someone or something else to blame
Rather than admitting it is your own fault
Viruses
Have proven to be an excellent scapegoat for all kinds of problems
And now, a quote from Genesis
1, 21
And 22
And God saw that it was good
And God blessed them saying
Be fruitful
I messed that one up
Be fruitful
And multiply
I wouldn't make a good God
Little Black Book of Computer Viruses
Is available on
What is it available on?
Written by Mark Ludwig
American Eagle Publications
And you can write to them
Post Office Box 41401
Tucson, Arizona
85717
And their phone number is 602-888-4957
Now, speaking of stupidity
All kinds of stupid things are going on
There was a company up in Montreal, I believe
That was destroyed
By their own incompetence when it came to computers
This is an article from the Montreal Gazette
When Montreal Life Insurance Company
A growing, profitable insurer
Decided to upgrade its main computer program
Ten years ago
It jumped in with both feet
The new program, a kind called an integrated one
Would tie together every aspect of the company's operations
There was a small problem, though
The enormous program had been customized and installed in haste
Scattered through its one million lines of computer instructions
There were a few undetected bugs
And since the system was integrated
Every time a bug caused an error in one department's files
The error was immediately reflected in several other departments' files
And within a year, Montreal Life was losing money
After three years, the company was near collapse
Errors in commission checks, for example
Drove away most of the company's agents
The agents took their clients with them
And when agents weren't underpaid
They were overpaid
Which accounted for another
One million dollars in losses
And it doesn't stop there, of course
About 1,000 Colorado ATM users
Had their visas and MasterCards
Abruptly terminated in February
By an out-of-control computer system
This from the Denver Post
For 90 minutes during the President's Day weekend
The Rocky Mountain Bank Card System software
Told ATMs around the state
To eat the cards
Instead of dishing out cash or taking deposits
The once-in-a-decade glitch
Went unnoticed
Because it occurred
As programmers were patching in a correction
To a different problem
The company is rushing new plastic
And letters of apology
To customers who got terminated
And now, we have Michelangelo
A man-made virus
Something that was intentionally released
Something that, as of March 6th
Will destroy data in various places
Will it destroy data in your computer?
That's something we'll take a stab at tonight
From the New York Times
March 3rd, 1992
Intel Corporation said on Monday
It had stopped shipping
A computer network software program
Because some units were found to be infected
With the Michelangelo virus
A program that infects IBM
And compatible personal computers
And can potentially destroy data
A division of Intel in Hillsborough, Oregon
Said it had shipped more than 800 copies of the program
Called Landspool 3.01
Which inadvertently contained the virus
The company said it had checked its software
With a virus scanning program
Before shipping it
But that
It had failed to detect the virus
A number of computer makers
And software publishers
Have issued similar alerts
About the Michelangelo program
And a variety of companies
Are now offering free software
To check for the virus
There are more than 1,000 known software viruses
That can copy themselves
From computer to computer
By attaching to programs
And files
To.com
From computer screen
To.com
To.com
To.com
To.com
To.com
To.com
Thank you.
And we have a warning from Prentice Hall International.
We have found that the discs distributed with our copy of the book Neural Networks and Fuzzy Systems by Bart Cosco are infected with the Michelangelo virus.
And we also have obtained a copy of a message from Intel that we just mentioned.
It was also inadvertently spreading the virus all over the place.
Dear Landspool user, like a number of commercial hardware and software vendors, we have been struck by the Michelangelo virus.
We have discovered the Michelangelo virus on the five and a quarter inch diskettes shipped with Landspool 286 version 3.01 and Landspool 386 version 3.01.
They included a disk with a custom written utility to check for the virus and a fact sheet about it.
They also set up a toll-free hotline 800-228-4561 to provide assistance with fighting it.
And they're also offering affected Landspool customers a free copy of LandProtect, their server-based network virus protection, which ordinarily lists for $999.
And, you know, while there are a lot of companies that are making programs available for free to combat this virus, there's an awful lot that are selling virus protection programs now.
And you have to wonder, how do they feel?
Do they feel sad that they have to distribute all these programs all of a sudden?
Are they sad that they have to work double shifts and have to deal with all that incoming cash?
A strange kind of sadness, no doubt.
Well, we're going to be talking about what Michelangelo means to the man in the street.
And we're going to have some guests up.
We'll be taking phone calls.
212-279-3400.
Before we get started,
a little story that appeared in the Seattle Times.
It doesn't have anything to do with viruses.
But it does have to do with hackers to a degree.
This was about Peter the Great.
Yes, we're talking about Michelangelo and Peter the Great tonight.
They arrested Peter the Great in Bellevue, Washington, a month ago for investigation of attempted theft
and using an unauthorized credit card number to try to purchase a $4,000 computer from a store in Bellevue.
And in the youth's car,
they found another $4,000 computer obtained earlier that day from a Seattle computer store.
They also claimed to have found documents suggesting that the youth had used credit information illegally.
After the youth was arrested,
he admitted to being a hacker
and using his parents' home computer and telephone
to call bulletin boards.
An elaborate type of email.
The bulletin boards offer the user electronic messaging.
An elaborate type of email system
allowed him to gain access to pirate bulletin directories
of how-to articles on ways of
cracking computer systems
containing everything from credit records and phone accounts
to files
in the University of Washington's chemistry department.
And
once the youth decided which articles he wanted most,
he would copy them onto his own disk.
And now police are pouring over hundreds of disks
confiscated from his parents' house
to see just how much information he had.
The parents knew nothing of what was going on, police say.
Police also seized a copy of a New York-based magazine called 2600,
aimed at hackers.
And
like the bulletin boards,
the magazine provides readers with a variety of how-to articles.
The teenager, who was released to his parents' custody,
told police the magazine taught him how to use a device
that can imitate the sound of coins dropping into a payphone.
With that, he could dial outside computers for free.
Well, it's kind of
startling to see
a magazine you're affiliated with
refer to as a criminal weapon.
But a lot of people
do have that impression of 2600.
The how-to journal that tells people
how to do things
that
many other people would rather they not be told how to do.
And our viewpoint is
pretty simple on that.
If something is
easy to figure out,
if people have the desire to learn something,
is that wrong in itself?
Now, naturally, information can be abused.
People can
cheat other people.
People can steal.
And this happens all the time.
Is that ever an excuse for withholding information?
Well, I have an idea what the answer is.
But I'd certainly like to hear from
more people
as far as their impressions of this.
All right, enough about that.
Michelangelo
set to strike
on
the 6th of March,
which is only
two days away.
If you have an MS-DOS computer,
you may be at risk.
If you don't have an MS-DOS computer,
you're not at risk for this particular virus,
but you could be at risk
for other viruses.
We have with us
this evening
FiberOptic,
who has
done his share of work
with computers.
I'm not so sure about
computer viruses.
It has a
I guess
a couple of
non-broadcastable words
as far as
the people that
take this kind of thing seriously.
If you could maybe
water it down a little bit
and tell us
what you think of people who
take things like this
so seriously.
Surely.
And
hello all you listeners out there,
by the way.
What I'd like to say
pretty much is that
I'm ashamed that
well first of all
I'd just like to cover
the anti-virus software authors
before I get into the viruses.
Individuals who
offer
supposed relief
for your grief
concerning computer viruses
and they try to aim
their software
for the corporate world
especially
people who are
probably going to be
more ignorant of the internals
of a computer
and think that viruses
are these evil programs
that fly through the air
and infect everything inside
wreaking havoc
on everyone's files
and so on and so forth.
Well viruses are a lot
less of a threat
to someone who's
informed about
what's going on
inside the computer
they use
and computers in general.
It's my impression
that people
in the corporate world
for the most part
are just interested
in just enough information
about the computer
they use
to do their job.
They come in
in the morning
they punch in
and they work
until five o'clock
and then they leave.
Not really caring
all too much
about how their computer
works aside from
possibly using
their word processor
or their database application.
They look upon it
as just a tool
nothing to really
get excited about.
Right.
The thing they get excited about
Like a pencil sharpener
or something.
Right.
Well then there's another thing
the thing they get excited about
is when they have
something they don't understand
and this goes for
anything in general
not only computers
anything someone
doesn't understand
that can pose
a threat to them
obviously makes them
very frightened
which should be
understandable
but it's when
these people
trust someone else
to give them
all the answers
they can be rest assured
that someone is going
to try to screw them over
or is going to try
to take advantage of them
because they feel
that they're in a spot
and of course
we have the media
playing on the whole thing
the media has been
offering various
kinds of coverage
and by media
I specifically mean
newspapers and the news
on TV
has been offering
various sorts
of explanation
and just spreading
mass hysteria
I think
when they
they find just
the right guy
to show on TV
who says he feels
like he was raped
and physically assaulted
yeah you saw that one too
that was what NBC
I think
that was
yeah NBC
exactly
the analogy
of hackers
or viruses
to rape
is one that
I can never
quite fathom
and I think
if you ask
a rape victim
you'll find
that it's not
really
a bona fide
comparison
yeah
and you have
you have
antivirus
software authors
and people in general
who are supposedly
researching viruses
saying that
people who write
viruses are mentally
disturbed
and need to be
locked away
or something
to that effect
oh well I don't know
where they make
that claim from
since anyone
with the fundamental
knowledge of how
to program
is going to be able
to write their own virus
as anyone is going
to know
anyone who's a programmer
that's worth his salt
who's looked at
many of the viruses
in existence
is going to know
that most of them
weren't made
by any programming geniuses
no it's quite simple
in fact when I was
when I was younger
I remember
I don't know
if this qualifies
as a virus
but I just
I wrote a basic program
to randomize
and just keep
making up new
basic programs
and titling them
and it wasn't very long
before the entire
disk of the system
that I was using
was filled up
with these nonsense files
now is that
technically a virus
or is that just
messing up the system
well there's various
types of viruses
usually when you
consider a virus
you're labeling
those programs
which replicate
themselves out of control
that come into contact
with other machines
usually through someone else
by inserting a disk
into that machine
so on and so forth
there are of course
viruses which are
lesser known
because most of the time
when you hear about viruses
they're focused on
IBM PCs
there are viruses
or any program in general
can be written
to self replicate itself
through a computer network
for instance
infecting host machines
on a backbone
or things of that nature
when people talk about
viruses on the PC
there's various different types
but there are some
broad classifications
that can be drawn
there's the well known
boot sector virus
which is what
Michelangelo is
of which Michelangelo is one
which is a type of virus
that lodges itself
on the boot sector
or the first sector
on the entire disk
and is a
either gonna
usually it's gonna
tack on some
assembly language code
to the normal code
involved in booting up
the machine
so that when the computer
is booted up
off of a disk
that is infected
the virus
the virus will usually
replicate itself
onto the boot sector
of the hard drive
if there is one
or onto any other
floppy disks
that may be in other drives
on that particular machine
now to non-bootable
floppy disks
as well as
bootable floppy disks
I don't know
well the intelligence
of the virus
is another thing
by intelligence
I mean whoever
programs the virus
and what they
intended on doing
they can make it
do whatever they wish
obviously if you
have a virus
attach itself
to a boot sector
of a disk
that is not bootable
it wouldn't do anything
so it wouldn't matter
so now
the only way
somebody could have
gotten the
Michelangelo virus
as I understand it
booting a disk
if they booted
off a floppy disk
so if you haven't
booted off
any other disk
other than your hard drive
there's really no way
you could have
gotten this virus
this is true
this particular virus
is one of those sort
where it only becomes
active when the
computer is booted
now
if somebody were to
say copy software
and copy that
to their hard drive
is there any way
that person
could have gotten
the virus
in that way
if they didn't
boot off that
floppy drive
again it depends
on the
intelligence of the
person or the
intelligence of the
virus
by what they intended
on the virus
doing
there's other types
of viruses
which connect
themselves to
files that are
found on a
particular computer
they might attach
themselves to
com files
or exe files
on an MS-DOS
machine
so that when
those particular
files are run
by the user
the virus would
replicate itself
possibly conditionally
affecting the boot
sector as well
as infecting and
attaching itself to
other programs of
an executable nature
I see
how many viruses
have you come
across?
personally I've never
been infected with
the virus at all
and I think that
viruses are a lot
of hype and
nonsense
of course the
people that don't
understand technical
things or at least
had a program in a
DOS environment on
the low level
as far as
programming and
assembly language on
the IBM PC machine
and programming in a
DOS environment
people that don't
understand these
things are probably
going to fear viruses
or they're going to
fear lots of things
really because
computers are always
just today I had a
problem with a
computer where it
was doing something
that it shouldn't be
doing namely crashing
every time it tried
to send something to
a printer and there
was absolutely no
reason for it to be
doing this and it
was only doing it
for one particular
file and the fix
was to simply
rename the file to
update it somehow
and it worked fine
after that now what
caused that I'll
never know I'll
never I'll go to
my grave never
knowing what
caused that but I
don't think it was
a virus I just
think it was some
kind of weird thing
that goes on inside
computers and there's
all kinds of weird
things that go on
inside computers and
I see you know a
danger here when
when everything is
is blamed on
viruses and hackers
and things like
that this this is
true there's there's
a problem where
things might arise
at say a certain
company or something
like that where
data is lost
fire files are
lost information is
lost stored on a
computer if there
just happens to be a
virus craze going
around there's
nothing stopping a
particular employee
to say that oh it
was the virus that
got it we're
infected to avoid
having the blame put
on himself who may
or may not have been
at fault now we if
we've been watching
the media I think we
all saw the the story
of this I think it's
an orphan home or
something like that
that had all its
data wiped because
the Michelangelo
virus hit them
prematurely I can't
help but but think
as this lady is
explaining how yes
just said please
wait on the screen
and and I saw the
hard disk light
churning away and
before I knew it
everything was gone
it was all just
gone I can't help
but think you know
maybe maybe she she
unplugged the thing
or something or
accidentally typed
DEL star dot star
yes I confirm that
I just have that
feeling you know
that maybe something
else happened you
know it's always
too easy to blame
it on a virus
yeah something that
I think is worth
commenting is that
everyone knows that
the Michelangelo
virus once it
lodges itself on
someone's boot
sector or boot
sectors is set to
go off on
Michelangelo's birthday
March 6th
that's great isn't
it everybody knows
Michelangelo's birthday
is I think it's
incredible
maybe someday
someone will write
in a virus for me
and I'll go off on
my birthday when
I'm long dead
well that's that's
there's no better
way of making a
tribute to someone
surely but the
thing I found at
fault with that
that woman in the
orphanage home
is that the mere
fact that the
Michelangelo virus is
set to go off at a
specific date which
hasn't occurred yet
right I mean the
only way I can
picture she would
have set the virus
off is if she
would have set the
date to March 6th
why she would have
done that I'll never
know and if she's
capable of doing that
she's capable of
typing anything and
completely fouling up
the system so
this is true
who knows
I'm sure it was
another reason that
that's screwed up her
machine and that
she's just attributing
it to the fact that
there's this virus
scare going around
well now what
okay what should
people do there is a
virus scare going
around the virus has
been reported it's
been it's been
popping up in
machines all over the
place should people
be taking these
reports seriously or
just assuming it
hasn't hit them
people should
consider them but
don't fly off the
handle about them
people seem to be
getting all excited
over just yet
another virus
michelangelo is no
cleverly coded
programmers masterpiece
it's yet another
boot sector virus of
which there are many
many many viruses
which are like that
to date there are
most antivirus
see this is this is
the funny thing most
antivirus software
reports that it can
detect up to 800
viruses now that's a
play on people's
imagination well
whether it's
questionable whether
there even are 800
computer viruses on
the PC in existence
there's only going to
be maybe under a
hundred that can
anyone can even say
may or may not be
floating around out
there somewhere then
there's also the thing
to be considered that
there's nothing stopping
the one person who's
making a profit out of
the whole thing the
antivirus software
authors from simply
hiring someone to
manufacture fake
viruses to which they
can add to their list
to their entourage of
detectable viruses and
play on play on this
fact and tell people
yes we can detect 800
viruses very possibly
500 of those not even
existing in the first
place well you know I
take it a step further
than that I think that
you gotta throw some
blame on not only the
antiviral software
companies but the
software companies
themselves because look
what's happening here
everybody is afraid to
to to copy software to
share software and what
better way to get people
to go out and buy each
individual copy of
everything that they
ever use to make sure
they don't get a virus
you know it's terrific
for them and you know
overpriced software is
is there for the taking
if anybody wants to pay
that kind of money right
so it's you know it
definitely helps the
software companies sell
overpriced software no
question about that
and there's the other
thing is that some of
these people or some of
these software companies
anyway are claiming that
that the software that
they shipped was infected
now I have I have two
problems with that well
actually one problem
worth mentioning anyway on
the one hand it's very
possible that this is true
that in their software
development lab someone
could have introduced this
virus into existence on
their machines the one
problem I have with that
is that it would be all
too very convenient for
a software company to
claim that their software
was infected with a
virus when in fact they
were behind schedule in
releasing their so their
software to claim that it
was infected as an excuse
that they shipped half
fast software or that they
weren't able to ship on
time in order to keep up
with their competitors it's
very easy to say that that
their software was infected
as an excuse that they
couldn't ship their software
that's the one problem I
have yeah I'm sure there's a
lot of people out there
saying oh that's you know
unfair to you know to blame
the companies for this but
consider it's just as unfair
to automatically assume that
a hacker is behind this and
I've heard that in just about
every media report about this
this virus that a hacker was
behind it we don't know who
wrote the thing we don't know
where it came from who wrote
it where it started whose idea
it was who's benefiting from it
in any kind of way right and if a
hacker did write it it's not a
very hackerish thing to do I
can tell you that I've heard
varying stories about what its
origin was I've heard
everything from the
Netherlands to Australia but it
really doesn't matter where it
originated I heard Brooklyn
Brooklyn I heard Brooklyn yeah
but that's that's something
else that's that's a different
story but um I mean there have
been hacker reports from
Australia there have been
hacker reports from the
Netherlands everyone knows that
next we'll be hearing that the
Michelangelo virus originated in
Russia Bulgaria or Bulgaria
that's where the hackers are
that that's where the the
antivirus software authors
love of filling people's heads
with all this nonsense people
like dare I say his name John
McAfee a well-known antivirus
software writer who was featured
in that little NBC snippet on TV
two days ago and his general take
on the whole thing was that let's
let's build up a picture in
people's heads who are too
ignorant to understand what's
going on let's make them think
that the cause of all their
problems are this these unseen
evil hackers that are lurking
around out there which are out
there to cause the detriment of
society and that just want to
destroy everyone's computer and
files for no apparent reason and
in the process make people like him
rich because he'll tell them that
the only way to safeguard against
such things is to go out and buy
his software isn't that convenient
for him I don't particularly like
that very much people like him
singling out hackers as being the
cause for for all these virus
problems for all we know he could
be writing viruses you could have
someone writing viruses just so he
could add them to his list of
viruses that his software can
recognize and get rich off it in the
process well it could be anybody it
could be anybody your your neighbor
down the street your own family
perhaps maybe the virus came from
them there's no way to tell the
important thing is how do you deal
with it now that it's here interesting
thing that's happening this is next
week is the fifth international
computer virus and security conference
it's in association with ACM sigsac
cma cos and i triple e dash cs that's
going to be happening March 11th through
the 13th at the New York Marriott Marquis
and Summit that's Thursday and Thursday
and Friday I don't know how they got
three dates out of that Thursday and
Friday March 11th 12th and 13th let's
just say the 12th and the 13th and be
done with it people want information on
that can call 800-835-2246 extension
190 I'm told I'm going to be on a panel
there and I think fiber optic is too
yeah I was told I was supposed to be on
one too yeah okay well we'll find out
what panels will be on and maybe we'll
even be on them that's happening and
also this Friday 2600 meeting at the
city core center in case you want to
come down and and see what hackers look
like well let's you know every other
law enforcement agency in town comes
down to watch that so you might as
well join us 53rd Street Lexington
Avenue City Core Center the lobby area
between 5 p.m. and 8 p.m. monthly
occurrence first Friday of every month
and also we have a brand new copy of
2600 that has just come out you want
to pitch one over here we'll run down
what's what's in this exciting issue
yeah it's the winter issue which has
just come out and since technically it
is still winter it's really not
technically late not yet anyway there's
all kinds of interesting things
including a piece on prison security the
Federal Bureau of Prisons has a
computer system it's known as Sentry and
they've had some problems with
security there's a piece on it as far
as that goes people expressed an
interest in the crypt source on Unix
systems and inside 2600 you'll see a
whole printout of of the crypt source
also some interesting frequencies and
update on the simplex lock situation and
some some treasures that were gotten
from trashing trashing is when people
jump into dumpsters and and get pieces
of information some people did that at a
phone company that manufactures
customer-owned coin-operated telephones
known as cocots those weird pay phones
you see on the street and got quite a
bit of interesting information including
solid proof solid proof that one of
those long-distance companies is cheating
people they're cheating people because
when they call them they they call them
collect they don't give the person the
chance to say no they wait five seconds
and if you don't hang up you get
charged imagine that imagine getting a
call that says hang up within five
seconds or we're going to start
charging you for a collect call now how
would your answering machine handle
that my answer machine doesn't handle
that very well at all because it
doesn't know when someone's telling it
that so consequently virtually every
month we get these weird charges and
the company is called Integritel so if
you see Integritel showing up on your
phone bill now you know why it's all in
this latest issue too so we'll be going
over that in future weeks because
there's a lot of a lot of weird things
going on out there so enough of a plug
for that any event our phone number is
212-279-3400 that's gonna let's take
some phone calls and the time we have
left before the personal computer show
starts people have questions about
Michelangelo virus and how it affects
them what they should do give us a call
good evening you're on the air hi yeah I
wanted to comment on the Michelangelo
virus that you at the end of your
discussion with mr fiber optic you guys
got to the point that I wanted to get to
which was I want to concur with you there
is no proof as to who initiated this
virus who started it and it certainly
has earmarks that's that seemed to me to
to raise certain suspicions as to its
origin namely the fact that advanced
notice of the virus essentially has been
given in other words you're told them you
have time to purchase the necessary
software to protect yourself against this
horrible virus and it has a catchy name
and a date that is linked to the name so in
other words this as a commercial enterprise
this seems to have if you want to take
that assume that that is the case I would
it seems like it's a well-planned type of
venture so to speak you raise a very good
point and and something else that I've been
meaning to ask is where did it get its name
yes March 6 is when it's supposed to go go
crazy and destroy things but when when was
it ever actually called the Michelangelo
virus it doesn't have a title I don't
think it's named within the source code
someone had to start calling it that I'd
like to know where that started you know
it would be very interesting to backtrace
exactly where and how it was discovered
because how are you going to how are you
going to find this virus if it doesn't if
it isn't set off until March 6 anyway even
if it was on a disk of yours how would you
how would you find out what what would
tip somebody off to its existence well
there's there's several ways one way is
to run the program called check disk now
that doesn't always work depending on
your system but in most cases if you have
a standard PC kind of a system with 640k
of RAM you should get a number I believe
the number is 655,360 that's a bit much
that's a bit much yeah there's that that's
that's the amount of memory you have
which is going to vary depending on the
amount of memory you have total on your
system it's always 640k systems come up
with that number 655,360 once DOS is
loaded into your memory on your computer
it's going to be considerably less than
that about the available memory the total
memory oh the total memory right okay
right yeah well that that's only going to
be true with certain viruses that reserve
memory for instance the Pakistani brain
virus does that reserve some memory a top
memory and installs itself there
michelangelo virus sits on the boot sector
so it's taking up no memory I'm at a
slight disadvantage because I haven't
myself been able to analyze the virus
because I don't currently have a
computer it seems every time I get one
the feds break into my house and steal
it so I'm sure I'll be able to I'll have
all the time in the world to sit down and
debug through it myself and have more
answers then and we will be printing it
we will be printing the source code in 2600
so those people that want to see how it
works exactly just look forward to that
that's going to be kind of interesting I
just also wanted to mention that if you
use debug if there must be a signature
to this to this virus since it's on the
boot sector you can actually as fiber
optic knows you can use debug to look at
various sectors so you can actually read
in the boot sector and and look at it and
dump it onto the screen and there must be
some signature in other words some set of
bytes or whatever that you can tell
whether or not you've got the virus and
you don't need any any programs if you
know what to look for and how to use
debug which is really not too complicated
I'm told that if you do look at that at
the boot sector and you don't see
messages that say things like no
operating system which are standard MS
DOS error messages that's where they
reside if they're not there that means
they've been written over and that's one
fairly easy way to to look you know to
find out if you have it if you know how
to use debug any other any other ways no
that that's typically it I mean with
debug you you're at a your own free
will to load in any specific sector on
the disk sector being 512 byte block
which is one logical sector on an MS
DOS disk you simply load in the first
one on whatever drive you're looking at
and if you have a copy
look provided that it's it's on from
another disk for instance or from the
same operating system you could do a
simple binary comparison compare it with
how it should look to what it looks like
now and if you know what program code
should be in your boot sector and you
see what's there and they don't match you
know that something's up thanks very much
for calling and a good program a good
public domain program that's making the
rounds of scan 86 B and with scan 86 B dot zip
is a zip file and it turns into a
assortment of scan programs and also
clean 86 B is the other one that will
clean it up if you do have the virus on
your system those are available on various
bulletin boards including the well and be
careful where you get it though because
who knows somebody could give you a copy
that is actually a virus itself so the
panic can spread even further I was
thinking that you know I haven't
downloaded any software from a bulletin
board in years and here the one
software that I might download is
something to to prevent the virus from
hitting my system well what a great
trick that would be if you hit a virus
inside that program that everybody
wants to download now something to
think about good evening
hey hello this is BAI that's what it is
you're on the air yeah this fiber optic
guy what is with the virus did not listen
these hackers okay I think they should
lock them up and throw the key not a
bastard okay okay all right well he has
no seven seconds to hear his voice but
that's good morning good evening rather
yeah hi I along with many or other
listeners I'm concerned about the
michelangelo virus now how exactly does it
determine like to strike on the 6th does
it do constant checks of the system time
clock or how exactly does it determine
that I the way I understand it and
fiber will correct me if I'm wrong when
you boot up yeah you boot up and the date
happens to be March 6th it will go into
action and and destroy the data on the
hard drive and obviously you don't have to
do that more than once so would it be
possible to do on yes it would I know
what you're going to ask you're going to
ask if it's possible leave your computer
on and not boot up or not turn it on and
off and bypass it that way that is
possible although you'll have to worry
about it next year too on March 6th yeah
and and I mean I think there is always a
potential that it might check for any
data after the 6th and well I was the
initial date and then it'll just check in
I was theorizing that how hard would it be
to simply change the date in the code and
make it any date you want or even worse
randomize and make a you know a different
date for every computer so you have this
virus but you don't know when it's going
to go off you know there's really more
difficult yeah like the first caller said
it's it's remarkably well publicized
remarkably simple almost as if it was
planned yep yeah if if you're familiar
with the way Michelangelo is and how it
works you'll notice that the theme is
pretty much exactly the same as the
original Friday the 13th virus simple
boot sector virus infects a machine in
the boot sector and is set to go off at a
specific date and all it really does is
destroy data on the machine which is all
the Michelangelo virus does it's nothing
new I don't know why people are getting
all excited it's just a it's just an old
virus with a new name the best way to
protect yourself is to do what you should
have been doing all along and keeping
backups both both printed backups and
floppy backups as well it's it's the most
basic thing you can do and a good friend
of mine said this once and it's true
it's one of the truest things you can
ever say every disk will crash at some
point every hard disk is going to crash
nothing lasts forever so you better be
prepared for that fateful day when
something bad does happen it might be a
virus it might be something else it might
be a spike in electricity it might just
be you know your number is up who knows
but if you want to be prepared for that
make a make a backup make several backups
okay thanks a lot thanks for calling
yep
212-279-3400 the program is off the hook
I'm Emmanuel Goldstein here with fiber
optic talking about the Michelangelo
virus and the discussion will be
continuing throughout the personal
computer show at 10 o'clock good
evening
yeah hi it's actually a little easier to
get a boot sector virus than you guys
suggested before because think of all the
times you've unintentionally booted from a
floppy you know you leave it in there
you forget it's there you your computer
crashes or you turn it off and turn it
on again and or you reboot and you've
booted from a floppy I think most most
times you you wind up not booting from
the floppy just says no system or
something like no no you see I'm saying
you accidentally you've copied a couple
of files from the floppy you you just
leave it there you forget it's there
right and and then your computer crashes
for any reason you reboot and you've just
booted from a floppy if the floppy
is bootable no no no it's a it's gonna
look on your boot sec it's gonna look
on your floppy drive first right but
it's not going to boot unless the
floppy but it's already gotten the
virus no no no I think you're
misunderstanding if a floppy disk is
not bootable there's a dummy boot
sector written there right and that's
where it goes so you've got doesn't do
anything unless it boots the disk no
no you've gotten it because it's
looking at that place you're talking
about the dummy boot sector that's
where it is right so once you've
rebooted you know with that floppy in
there that you forgot about you've got
the virus viruses usually attach
themselves to the boot sector not
rewrite it completely right and that's
that's what that's where it goes that's
what it does when when you turn when you
turn it on the computer the first thing
it does is look in your floppy drive for
I understand that you're missing the
point the Michelangelo virus attaches
itself after a valid boot sector on the
end of the code that normally boots up a
disk if there's none there already i.e. if
the disk is not bootable because it has a
dummy boot sector Michelangelo will
attach itself to a dummy boot sector
which will be run when you put the disk
in which will say no system and the disk
won't boot anyway but i'm pretty sure
that it actually has that it it makes
that it's booting from that it's making a
boot sector are we talking about are we
talking about just this virus or oh no i
mean as a matter of fact i don't even
know about my client i i've had
experience with a different one but my
guess is it's probably the same way that
you know once you've once you've just
booted accidentally from that floppy with
through without uh command come or anything
like that uh you've gotten it so you know
you do have to check for it okay well i
don't know if you know assembly language
on the uh pc but i suggest you go into
debug and read in a boot sector and
disassemble it and you'll probably see
what i'm talking about oh i know what
you mean but what i'm saying is i
suspect it probably fakes it out it thinks
it's booting it can do whatever it wants
to do right what i'm simply stating is
that to my knowledge it attaches
itself to a valid boot sector instead
of replacing it and it's in its entirety
okay before before we lead the rest of
our audience uh into uh slumberland here
well uh we're going to get back to the
basics of viruses and uh and how it
affects people who just have pcs and
aren't master programmers okay but in
any case it does pay to uh to scan your
disk anyway even if you don't think
you've booted from a floppy right uh it
can happen oh it can be an educational
experience no question yeah that's
right thanks for calling
279-3400 good evening good evening go
ahead
all right just let me turn it off okay
the the just a couple more questions
about i agree with most of what you're
saying about the actual impetus as to
why the you know viruses exist i really
do feel that they do much more good for
commercial uh software producers than
they do for hackers i mean the only reason
the hacker would do it is if he just
feels vindictive or egotistical or whatever
it is most hackers are spending time
breaking code uh trying to you know like
get copy protective programs to work and
so on that i know of uh but in any case
on the michelangelo uh do you know in
terms of the symptoms would it be that
uh the virus would not only destroy let's
say the sea or does it doesn't only affect
the fat table i take it it will let's say
format a disk or what is it in actually
doing in the destruction of the data you
know how it operates essentially what is
it you know hello yeah as as far as i know
it's just going to go and try to format the
entire drive which uh will result in the
systematic destruction of the fat table and
so on and so forth sequentially through the
entire district understand uh understood but
uh okay now let's say uh in terms of backup
let's say i have uh i don't even use ibms for
my main machines but you know like it's it
worries almost everyone you know even though
if we let's say we are hackers we know this
stuff and you know and all of a sudden you
know somewhere along the line there is a
disk that you may have gotten or whatever
it is that might have been infected right in
whatever period of time you've been dealing
with or if you've downloaded etc etc as we go
through this paranoia shtick right but uh
question is like this do you know if it also
will go let's say d drive e drive f drive
etc etc all the way through your system or
will it only go on your boot boot disk
specifically i don't know i would assume that
it's only going to install itself on a disk that
is in fact bootable uh-huh the thing that i
think will it start to you know like look for
drives in other words you know it's not that
sophisticated specifically with michelangelo i
don't know with other uh boot sector viruses
this is the case it tries to install itself on
any disk it can it can find and while you say
that's not too sophisticated that's that's you
know well while that you say it's not that
sophisticated time bomb or so or any plenty
uh any viruses uh like this would would
basically go and look and see what you've
got in the system and then go wipe out if it
was that you know sophisticated if it only
gets it's a fairly simple thing to to you
know modify a virus to look for a couple of
extra drives right yeah i'm just asking
you know like if you really do know what
it's you know uh what what it's you know
protocol you know what it's well i've i
haven't actually had this on a system of
mine i hope it stays that way but uh i
have seen lots of disagreement in the uh in
the computer world as to just what it uh
what it is capable of doing some people
can't even get it straight as far as what
kind of computers it affects some people
were saying it affects xenix computers
which is not true at all unless you boot
off an ms-dos uh machine to start with
some uh you know tell me if you don't
disagree the most trouble some of the
boot block viruses and and let's say on
the uh amiga which i use or max uh i use
amigas more exclusively we have boot and
rom
i'm afraid we're out of time unfortunately
we're gonna have to get back to this
question a little later uh personal
computer show is next we're going to be
continuing this discussion throughout the
personal computer show uh i'm emmanuel
goldstein fiber optic and myself will be
remaining in the background and be
answering some more questions and
bringing up some more topics so keep
listening and we'll be back again next
week for another edition of off the hook
the thunders good monday nick
you