Off The Hook - 1992-05-20

[00:06.420 --> 00:20.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: Join Building Bridges, your community labor report, on Thursday, May 21st, when we present members of the newly formed New York City Labor Chorus with singers from unions throughout the city for a program of traditional and not-so-traditional songs for labor to keep hope alive.
[00:20.520 --> 00:26.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the New York City Labor Chorus on Building Bridges, Thursday, May 21st, 7.30 to 8.30 p.m.
[00:26.380 --> 00:28.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: over WBAI 99.5 FM.
[00:40.690 --> 00:48.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's nine o'clock in the evening on a Wednesday, and that means that it's time for Off the Hook.
[00:49.330 --> 00:52.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's the cue for the phone to give the off-hook tone.
[00:52.930 --> 00:53.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead, phone.
[01:00.220 --> 01:04.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:05.600 --> 01:10.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:10.920 --> 01:12.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: It couldn't get much worse.
[01:15.240 --> 01:18.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: From Biddley Bum, but I best expect the worst.
[01:18.940 --> 01:20.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hope that's understood.
[01:21.120 --> 01:21.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: From Biddley Bum!
[01:53.880 --> 01:54.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening.
[01:56.320 --> 01:57.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening to everybody.
[01:58.200 --> 01:59.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: The program is Off the Hook.
[01:59.980 --> 02:02.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein, and we're with you until...
[02:03.420 --> 02:04.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: 10 o'clock.
[02:07.180 --> 02:12.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: And what we have tonight are a whole range of interesting things.
[02:13.540 --> 02:15.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: But first, I'd like to share this with you.
[02:18.140 --> 02:24.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: We've managed to tap into what appears to be every single phone call going on in the country.
[03:59.670 --> 04:02.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's simply amazing what you can do.
[04:05.760 --> 04:06.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: With a little luck.
[04:07.700 --> 04:12.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Has this ever happened to you, where you're on the telephone and all of a sudden, you're speaking to everybody?
[04:17.260 --> 04:22.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: You may hear a busy signal way off in the distance, and that was the call that we were attempting to make.
[04:23.320 --> 04:24.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Happened to be busy, but...
[04:25.540 --> 04:28.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: As you can see, we got kind of a noisy line.
[04:39.190 --> 04:41.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's all kinds of ways for your conversations to be overheard.
[04:44.350 --> 04:46.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: This really isn't one of them.
[04:48.150 --> 04:51.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: But you could be monitored at any time.
[04:51.550 --> 04:52.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: On a satellite.
[04:53.850 --> 04:57.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: On a radio, if you're using a cellular or mobile phone.
[05:00.500 --> 05:01.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Or...
[05:01.020 --> 05:02.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: By a computer.
[05:06.710 --> 05:09.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: There are even ways to do it using a touch-tone phone.
[05:12.610 --> 05:16.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, next time you, uh, find yourself on the telephone...
[05:18.370 --> 05:22.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just remember, you might be broadcasting over the radio.
[05:33.770 --> 05:41.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the, uh, last of our shows during the marathon, so this is the last opportunity for people to call us and show support.
[05:42.570 --> 05:47.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I sure hope a lot of people do, because we had a pretty good showing last week.
[05:47.930 --> 05:49.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: This week, though...
[05:49.430 --> 05:51.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: But we need to finish off with a, with a bang.
[05:52.450 --> 05:55.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just to, uh, let people know that...
[05:56.230 --> 05:57.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: Technology is important.
[05:57.590 --> 05:58.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're not turning our backs on it.
[05:59.110 --> 06:01.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we're doing everything we can to conquer it.
[06:02.130 --> 06:03.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: To learn about it.
[06:03.230 --> 06:04.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: And to control it.
[06:04.630 --> 06:06.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what this program is all about.
[06:06.710 --> 06:08.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: We've got, uh, lots of news for you tonight.
[06:08.710 --> 06:10.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to get right into it.
[06:10.510 --> 06:13.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, first of all, there's a late-breaking story out of Holland...
[06:13.730 --> 06:16.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: ...that, uh, we're going to be updated on in a matter of moments.
[06:16.110 --> 06:18.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, so, uh, stay tuned for that.
[06:18.830 --> 06:22.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, there's also, uh, a bit of news coming out of, uh...
[06:22.550 --> 06:25.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, all areas of the New York metropolitan area concerning caller ID.
[06:26.190 --> 06:28.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Some rather, uh, surprising news about that.
[06:29.430 --> 06:33.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, the latest issue of 2600 has hit the newsstands.
[06:33.290 --> 06:34.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, that's not true.
[06:34.250 --> 06:35.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: It hasn't hit the newsstands.
[06:35.430 --> 06:37.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's currently being delivered to the newsstands.
[06:37.110 --> 06:39.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's, it's just an expression.
[06:39.330 --> 06:39.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's out.
[06:39.950 --> 06:42.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's hot off the presses, or, or what have you.
[06:42.150 --> 06:53.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, and, uh, contained in this particular issue of, uh, the hacker quarterly are all kinds of viruses that you can put on an MS-DOS computer, uh, for educational purposes only, I assume.
[06:53.790 --> 06:55.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, uh, then again, it's none of my business.
[06:55.730 --> 07:01.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Viruses that were run in batch that will, uh, affect, uh, dot-com files.
[07:01.970 --> 07:10.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, plus a really, uh, kind of neat trick, uh, that will annoy clerks in stores that have computers.
[07:11.070 --> 07:12.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: It will annoy them no end.
[07:12.390 --> 07:23.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: It won't do any, any harm, but, uh, imagine if there was a message that you conveyed on a particular computer screen, and no matter what they did, they couldn't get rid of that message.
[07:24.390 --> 07:27.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Such as, this store is too expensive.
[07:29.330 --> 07:40.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: And no matter what they did, turning the computer off, unplugging the computer, throwing the computer against the wall, they cannot get rid of that message that appears on the screen.
[07:42.890 --> 07:49.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Unless they know a thing or two, and, uh, in this day and age, the threat of that is rather remote.
[07:50.090 --> 07:55.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, and what else is in, uh, this latest issue that just, uh, hit the stand, so to say?
[07:55.950 --> 07:59.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, we have an article on hacking, uh, a bulletin board system.
[08:00.210 --> 08:08.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's right, actually getting into a BBS and manipulating it and possibly taking it over.
[08:09.210 --> 08:11.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, some tips on how to use a silver box.
[08:11.470 --> 08:16.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Silver boxes are those, uh, telephones that have been modified to have the extra four digits.
[08:17.430 --> 08:21.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: A, B, C, D, to the right of three, six, nine pound.
[08:22.010 --> 08:26.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people have those tones, but they don't know what to do with them.
[08:27.110 --> 08:28.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we have some suggestions.
[08:30.110 --> 08:41.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Some, uh, rather important frequencies, actually frequencies of the Secret Service and Disney World, both together on the same page, as they are in real life many times.
[08:42.170 --> 08:52.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, a Unix password hacker, if anybody is on a, a Unix system, there's, uh, an alternative way of, uh, finding out people's passwords.
[08:53.050 --> 08:58.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: A program that you can enter yourself and run yourself and actually, uh, uh, see if it works.
[08:58.390 --> 09:03.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: This particular one allows you to, uh, to enter the word that you think somebody might have.
[09:03.170 --> 09:06.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, a lot of people use the word password as a password.
[09:06.490 --> 09:13.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, you can type this into this program and it will search the entire computer system and tell you who has that particular password.
[09:13.790 --> 09:14.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Rather quickly, too.
[09:15.290 --> 09:18.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, a rather, uh, interesting article on how to, uh, take apart a payphone.
[09:19.590 --> 09:25.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I won't, uh, give any editorial comments on that, but, uh, this is, of course, assuming that you somehow possess a payphone.
[09:26.430 --> 09:32.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: A guide to the Australian phone system, as well as a review of, uh, Steve Jackson's new game, Hacker.
[09:32.350 --> 09:37.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: And a complete list of where all the simplex locks are around the country.
[09:37.890 --> 09:38.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Most incredible.
[09:38.730 --> 09:41.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Plus phone numbers, letters, and, uh, all kinds of advertisements.
[09:42.230 --> 09:43.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have a late-breaking story.
[09:44.410 --> 09:49.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, hopefully on the phone with us is, uh, Bill from Amsterdam.
[09:49.510 --> 09:50.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bill, are you there?
[09:50.650 --> 09:51.410]  I am right here.
[09:51.590 --> 09:58.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, Bill, uh, first of all, let me, uh, let me, uh, tell you that that, uh, all that noise that you hear is not, uh, your phone connection.
[09:58.690 --> 10:04.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a phone connection that, uh, that we had that connected us to just about everybody in the world.
[10:04.150 --> 10:05.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Can you, can you hear those voices?
[10:05.570 --> 10:07.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: I hear a lot of voices in the background, yes.
[10:07.850 --> 10:09.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Has anything like that ever happened to you?
[10:10.630 --> 10:11.510]  Oh, that's okay.
[10:11.790 --> 10:12.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, no.
[10:12.650 --> 10:13.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is it, uh, going through your studio?
[10:14.210 --> 10:16.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: It, it only happened when you answered your phone.
[10:17.170 --> 10:18.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, actually, uh, this is on tape.
[10:18.810 --> 10:26.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is something that we, uh, recorded a bit earlier, but, uh, uh, uh, it is something that, that happened that enabled us to hear all kinds of people together.
[10:26.430 --> 10:28.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was wondering if, if you had ever encountered something similar.
[10:29.310 --> 10:33.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it's a very common occurrence on the DMS-100 switch.
[10:33.610 --> 10:40.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: It is a, uh, low-cost implementation of something similar to the 5ESS made by Northern Telecom.
[10:40.870 --> 10:59.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: And doing almost anything on a DMS-100 switch, like tapping the switch hook at certain parts as the call goes through, will enable you to hear other people talking, usually one person at a time, and if that conversation is boring, you can tap the switch hook again and get the next conversation and go on until you find one that is,
[10:59.470 --> 11:00.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: uh, worth listening to.
[11:00.510 --> 11:01.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: A 1-100, perhaps.
[11:01.750 --> 11:04.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is a, a common feature of a DMS-100?
[11:04.850 --> 11:07.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, uh, they would call it a bug.
[11:07.230 --> 11:13.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think, uh, people that, uh, uh, like to listen to things that are none of their business would, uh, consider it a feature, yes.
[11:14.510 --> 11:14.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[11:15.170 --> 11:21.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll tell people how they can find out if they have a DMS-100, uh, serving, serving them, or not serving them, as the case may be.
[11:21.590 --> 11:29.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, Bill, you have something far more important to talk about, and let me, uh, just, uh, get rid of all these thousands of people here while, uh, you tell us just what it is that happened over in Amsterdam.
[11:31.030 --> 11:37.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, uh, on, uh, Wednesday morning, that was yesterday, or I guess it's still Wednesday there.
[11:37.910 --> 11:41.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, at about 9 a.m.
[11:41.490 --> 11:55.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: Central European time, uh, one of, uh, Holland's best-known hackers was arrested by some men that showed up at his house, uh, uh, pretending to be salesmen for a company he has formed that sells computers.
[11:56.490 --> 12:06.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they arrested him in his home in Utrecht by, uh, uh, uh, by their local police in conjunction with, uh, what they call the pilot team.
[12:06.370 --> 12:10.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of, uh, Holland's, uh, own little Operation Sun Devil.
[12:10.250 --> 12:14.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm sure your listeners are, uh, quite aware of that, what Sun Devil is.
[12:14.550 --> 12:17.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's kind of a similar thing happening by the pilot team.
[12:18.050 --> 12:30.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's kind of a test to see if, uh, if, uh, uh, people in Holland will actually, uh, go along with, uh, with the USA saying, you gotta do something about hackers.
[12:30.350 --> 12:33.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think most people here are pretty wise to that.
[12:34.490 --> 12:38.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: So these, yeah, these people came and, uh, and, and what, they arrested him?
[12:39.430 --> 12:41.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, they came and arrested him.
[12:41.250 --> 12:52.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's, uh, essentially a, uh, an intimidation and harassment, uh, motive, uh, in my opinion, uh, loosely translated, uh, the charges are like racketeering.
[12:52.610 --> 13:06.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: In other words, uh, there's a section of the law here, like there is in the United States that says if you are dealing with a corrupt organization or organized crime, that is a crime in itself, which gives them, uh, the authority to do other things that I will mention,
[13:07.010 --> 13:07.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: uh, a little bit later.
[13:08.390 --> 13:11.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: Also, he was charged with fraud and vandalism.
[13:12.610 --> 13:13.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is...
[13:13.450 --> 13:30.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because he was charged with the racketeering or, uh, you know, organized crime, mafia and stuff, uh, they took some equipment, including a, uh, PC that was owned by his father, who, like his mother, and obviously himself, uh, do not support any of this action and,
[13:30.190 --> 13:34.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: uh, basically are madder in hell at, uh, the police and the system.
[13:35.430 --> 13:36.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: I see.
[13:36.630 --> 13:39.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, now, did you give the name of this hack or the, uh, the handle, rather?
[13:40.550 --> 13:46.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I'm probably okay by giving his handle, uh, I cannot, uh, give his name.
[13:46.430 --> 13:55.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: It is one illegal and I strongly feel unethical to ever, uh, release the name of someone who has been arrested and not, uh, convicted.
[13:55.310 --> 14:03.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, it is illegal even to publish the name of someone who has been convicted or to allow the public to even have knowledge this person was ever arrested and convicted here.
[14:04.150 --> 14:09.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's certainly not, uh, different than the United States, but, uh, if you can give us his handle, that, I guess that would be good enough.
[14:09.770 --> 14:19.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: He goes by RGB and, uh, that is probably okay because they'll probably report it in the newspaper as that, uh, handle.
[14:19.810 --> 14:20.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[14:20.590 --> 14:30.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, latest I've heard is that no confession has been entered and I don't think any is likely because obviously it's not racketeering.
[14:30.630 --> 14:39.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: He has no connections, uh, with any organized crime unless, uh, they can somehow think that we're all part of that, which then I think we all better lay low.
[14:40.170 --> 14:44.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's, uh, definitely not fraud because this is, uh, a hobby.
[14:44.310 --> 14:48.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: This hobby costs money and makes nobody any money.
[14:49.230 --> 14:56.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's certainly not vandalism because there's no physical damage to any property or for that matter, there is no virtual damage.
[14:56.350 --> 15:01.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: And what I mean by that is that this guy is an expert, uh, computer user.
[15:01.690 --> 15:09.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: He knows the systems inside and out and does not damage, uh, uh, alter files or anything of that sort.
[15:09.470 --> 15:18.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: All he did was got into the system, took advantage of their internet, uh, connections and telnet and all the stuff that, uh, a lot of us just take for granted.
[15:19.430 --> 15:25.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, basically, uh, uh, basically was up to no damage.
[15:25.770 --> 15:26.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh huh.
[15:26.130 --> 15:28.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I've met RGB and I know that he's not a vandal.
[15:28.810 --> 15:35.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: He's, uh, uh, a conscientious person and he's, uh, into as, as many of us are exploration and learning.
[15:36.090 --> 15:39.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: And unfortunately it seems that that's, uh, becoming more and more of a crime.
[15:39.710 --> 15:46.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, now this, the difference here is that this is happening in Amsterdam, Amsterdam being, uh, considered for many years.
[15:46.430 --> 15:48.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, uh, Holland, let's just say Holland then.
[15:48.790 --> 15:55.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, but for many years, Holland being considered the last refuge of, uh, of computer hackers, uh, is that coming to an end?
[15:57.210 --> 16:05.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I think they're trying to bring it to an end, but again, as I strongly believe that this is just, uh, this is just part of the old crap.
[16:06.230 --> 16:09.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd rather use other terms than I can't on the radio about the new world order.
[16:10.270 --> 16:18.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, I just think, uh, I just think that we're kind of feeling the fallout of the demise of the United States and it's starting to affect us here.
[16:19.130 --> 16:25.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, this is, uh, just a one possible, uh, uh, thing about it.
[16:25.150 --> 16:32.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they're going to, the, the U S is going to try to tell other countries what to do when they can't even imagine, can't even manage their own affairs.
[16:33.590 --> 16:35.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, RGB is in jail now.
[16:35.610 --> 16:38.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Has anybody been in touch with him since this happened this morning?
[16:39.390 --> 16:42.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, no, by policy, uh, I'll explain.
[16:42.230 --> 16:44.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: He is not in, uh, like prison.
[16:44.230 --> 16:46.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: He's in a, uh, police holding tank.
[16:47.510 --> 16:59.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: And in the holding tank, uh, you have a right to contact an attorney, which will, uh, if you can't afford one, the attorney of your choice will be provided for you.
[17:00.090 --> 17:03.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, he must communicate through this person.
[17:04.250 --> 17:15.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: This, uh, period of silence during the arraignment and then possibly some subsequent holding periods of six days each is to allow the investigators to build a case.
[17:15.710 --> 17:24.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then, uh, at that point when it has been determined that he will not flee the country and, uh, he certainly won't, uh, they will then release him.
[17:24.950 --> 17:34.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, chances are like in the other case that was reported in 2600 magazine, they'll just sit on it and very possibly just kind of do nothing.
[17:34.270 --> 17:40.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's, uh, it is a, uh, it is like, well, hey, U.S., we're, uh, we're doing something about it, you know.
[17:42.390 --> 17:45.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, uh, let's, uh, let's keep an eye on this situation.
[17:45.690 --> 17:51.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: As far as the, uh, the case that, uh, we reported on, uh, several months ago, how has that turned out with two other hackers?
[17:52.230 --> 17:56.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: They were released and there has been absolutely no further action.
[17:56.290 --> 17:57.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like it's been forgotten.
[17:57.650 --> 18:02.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I, that's, everybody wonders it.
[18:02.930 --> 18:04.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they are going to do anything.
[18:04.750 --> 18:11.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: Again, it's a, uh, it's a way to send a chill to, uh, people that are playing with computers.
[18:11.310 --> 18:13.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: There are some countries like the U.S.A.
[18:13.890 --> 18:21.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: that is highly concerned about people, uh, looking to see what people have in computers on a public network.
[18:22.670 --> 18:25.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, it's, it's all show.
[18:26.130 --> 18:29.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, Bill, I want to thank you very much for, uh, updating us with that information.
[18:29.810 --> 18:32.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, of course, we'll be keeping a close eye on that in the weeks to come.
[18:33.150 --> 18:35.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, you let us know if anything, uh, new happens.
[18:35.990 --> 18:38.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, give our best to anybody over there.
[18:38.690 --> 18:39.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Will do.
[18:39.490 --> 18:40.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, thanks again.
[18:40.810 --> 18:41.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, thank you.
[18:41.710 --> 18:46.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: That was, uh, Bill reporting live from Amsterdam on the situation in Holland.
[18:47.090 --> 18:54.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, one of, uh, Holland's most famous computer hackers known as RGB has been arrested and charged with all kinds of things.
[18:54.790 --> 19:01.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, racketeering, vandalism, probably hooliganism too, if they can, uh, figure out the spelling on that.
[19:01.390 --> 19:03.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, we'll be, uh, following that.
[19:04.210 --> 19:05.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll be seeing what happens to Holland.
[19:06.110 --> 19:08.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Holland, uh, by the way, I've been there several times now.
[19:09.250 --> 19:20.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: You realize after you go there the first time, just, um, it's, it sounds really unpatriotic to say this, I suppose, but how full of crap we really are over here.
[19:20.870 --> 19:26.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: And believe me, we are because it's, um, it's one thing to be concerned with law and order.
[19:26.910 --> 19:33.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's another thing to be obsessed with it and to worry about every little action that you, uh, are possibly engaged in.
[19:33.370 --> 19:36.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now in Holland, people act like people.
[19:36.150 --> 19:36.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: They act naturally.
[19:36.930 --> 19:38.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: They ask lots of questions.
[19:38.930 --> 19:42.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: They, uh, have this sort of natural, uh, abhorrence of authority.
[19:43.190 --> 19:44.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's nothing wrong with that.
[19:44.350 --> 19:46.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Authority is something that, uh, deserves to be questioned.
[19:47.450 --> 19:55.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, by doing so, the Dutch have not, uh, lapsed into anarchy and the streets are not burning and people are not filled with hatred.
[19:55.270 --> 20:00.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's just this, uh, this natural, uh, questioning attitude and defiance.
[20:00.470 --> 20:03.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: It comes from being invaded over the course of several centuries.
[20:03.630 --> 20:05.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: It comes from a Nazi occupation.
[20:06.050 --> 20:07.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: It comes from all kinds of things.
[20:07.490 --> 20:20.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, uh, that particular attitude has, um, has served Holland well over the years and now it's served computer hackers well because it's a place where you can, uh, actually experiment a little bit.
[20:20.210 --> 20:22.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not, uh, do any physical damage.
[20:22.350 --> 20:25.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not, uh, create vandalism as they say.
[20:25.970 --> 20:28.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's, uh, it's a place where you can learn.
[20:28.370 --> 20:29.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Learn by doing.
[20:29.730 --> 20:46.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: And not have to worry about always looking over your shoulder to see who's watching and to see whether or not by copying a particular file or by entering a particular system using a default password, whether you've broken some kind of federal law and are facing 50 years in jail.
[20:47.230 --> 20:57.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: That kind of, uh, that kind of pressure, that kind of, uh, constant fear and paranoia, uh, doesn't serve creative minds very well.
[20:58.190 --> 20:59.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: And hackers are very creative people.
[21:00.090 --> 21:01.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: They figure things out.
[21:01.770 --> 21:03.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: They manipulate technology.
[21:03.370 --> 21:07.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: They make things work in ways that, uh, that designers never anticipated.
[21:08.710 --> 21:12.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: And 95% of the time, those ways are an improvement.
[21:13.630 --> 21:17.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, um, needless to say, some of the most brilliant people in the world now live in Holland.
[21:18.610 --> 21:22.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's, uh, it's an ominous sign what's been happening over there over the past few months.
[21:22.910 --> 21:25.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we're wondering if, uh, if things are at an end.
[21:25.910 --> 21:39.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we all, uh, we all living on borrowed time to a degree, whether it's, uh, by displaying art forms, uh, listening to particular records that are acceptable one day and, uh, labeled the next.
[21:39.610 --> 21:42.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I remember 10 years ago, records didn't have labels on them.
[21:42.930 --> 21:45.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: You were able to, uh, to play virtually anything on the radio.
[21:45.890 --> 21:48.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: But now we've got to worry about the FCC rulings.
[21:49.070 --> 21:52.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: We've got to worry about whether or not we're playing something that has a sticker on it.
[21:52.850 --> 21:58.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: That some, um, some person with the, with a six-year-old son might be offended by at three o'clock in the morning.
[21:58.950 --> 22:08.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, something that might criticize religion or criticize a nation or criticize a way of life and be looked upon as bad because of that.
[22:08.810 --> 22:18.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's, um, there's a very strong link between what the hackers of the world are facing and what BAI people are constantly facing.
[22:19.250 --> 22:25.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's, um, no small feat to keep WBAI on the air, to, uh, keep the programming coming your way.
[22:25.530 --> 22:30.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is, uh, one of three times during the year that we ask for your support.
[22:30.290 --> 22:32.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: We ask for your help to keep it going.
[22:32.950 --> 22:47.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: If, uh, WBAI were not here, the only report that you would hear about what we, uh, what we just talked about with Bill in Amsterdam, the only report is what you will read in the tabloids over the next few days, where some terrorist, uh, computer hacker that could have,
[22:48.150 --> 22:56.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: uh, wiped out every pacemaker in the world with a single keystroke, uh, he is now safe behind bars and the world can go on breathing.
[22:56.610 --> 22:58.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, WBAI gives you more than that.
[22:58.890 --> 23:03.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: We give you a chance to, uh, to delve a little deeper into the stories.
[23:03.810 --> 23:08.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why, uh, we need to be able to continue doing this.
[23:08.310 --> 23:10.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Nobody is going to take over if we stop.
[23:10.610 --> 23:22.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we will stop if we do not get the support because, uh, uh, our creditors don't really share our viewpoints on, uh, freedom of speech and the first amendment and that kind of thing.
[23:23.010 --> 23:25.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[23:25.390 --> 23:26.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: That is the number to call.
[23:26.550 --> 23:31.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'd like to see a nice strong flurry of, um, of calls come in now so we can continue with the program.
[23:31.990 --> 23:45.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: What we're doing is, uh, offering as we did last week, uh, a free copy of 2600 magazine, the most recent issue, the one that, uh, we were just describing, uh, with every pledge, regardless of, um, how big or how small.
[23:45.390 --> 23:53.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, the, the big ones are especially nice, but mostly we want to, uh, to reach out to people, especially those of you that have never called before.
[23:53.370 --> 24:02.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Those of you that have, uh, listened to the program or maybe for the first time tonight are listening to the program and have never actually subscribed to the radio station.
[24:02.250 --> 24:04.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's really, um, a good thing to do.
[24:04.650 --> 24:07.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's something that, uh, a lot of us on the air have already done.
[24:08.290 --> 24:12.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, it's a way of showing your support for freedom of speech.
[24:12.170 --> 24:18.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Something that, uh, is, uh, is increasingly, increasingly fragile, uh, through the nineties.
[24:18.670 --> 24:22.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, they're, uh, imposing all kinds of, uh, of restrictions.
[24:22.930 --> 24:30.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's getting harder and harder to survive with, uh, recessions and, uh, and increasing prices for just about everything you can imagine.
[24:30.950 --> 24:33.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[24:33.530 --> 24:35.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Show your support for WBAI.
[24:35.370 --> 24:38.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Show your support, uh, for technological innovation.
[24:39.310 --> 24:44.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because with the support that we're able to get, uh, we can expand.
[24:44.270 --> 24:48.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: We can, uh, actually move forward instead of, uh, just standing still.
[24:49.190 --> 24:57.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: In other words, uh, we can improve our technological, uh, setup here and use it in a way that other people have not used it.
[24:57.730 --> 25:05.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: For instance, you're not going to get, uh, a switchboard where you call WBAI and they tell you, well, if you have a touchtone phone, press this button here.
[25:05.370 --> 25:08.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you don't have a touchtone phone, well, hang up because we don't want to talk to you.
[25:08.930 --> 25:11.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're not going to, uh, depersonalize things like that.
[25:11.830 --> 25:19.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: But we're also not going to walk away from what is being developed because to do that is to, uh, is to turn you back on the future.
[25:19.490 --> 25:21.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: And turning you back on the future is never the answer.
[25:22.090 --> 25:24.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: At least, uh, certainly not in, in my view.
[25:24.250 --> 25:29.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: You've got to grasp the future and, and shape it to, uh, to your particular needs.
[25:29.410 --> 25:34.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, we'll, we'll get, uh, particular pieces of phone equipment and, uh, and studio equipment.
[25:34.870 --> 25:39.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we'll make them work for what WBAI has always stood for.
[25:39.810 --> 25:44.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Freedom of speech, innovation, and a wide diversity of thought.
[25:44.950 --> 25:46.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[25:47.030 --> 25:51.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: I see we have four people on the line and, uh, we have seven phones altogether.
[25:51.070 --> 25:57.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: So that means all we need to do is get in three more calls, three more calls, and everybody in the tally room will have something to do.
[25:58.270 --> 26:00.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: And right now, uh, sounds kind of quiet.
[26:00.610 --> 26:01.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, there's a few people talking.
[26:02.310 --> 26:02.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[26:02.870 --> 26:07.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, uh, let's, let's get those phones ringing really loudly and, uh, and consistently.
[26:07.750 --> 26:09.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[26:09.810 --> 26:16.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: Those of you in, uh, New Jersey, those of you on Long Island, Connecticut, wherever you are, please give us a call now.
[26:16.210 --> 26:18.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the time that we need your support.
[26:18.670 --> 26:21.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[26:21.850 --> 26:25.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: There are no other stations like WBAI on the entire FM dial.
[26:26.190 --> 26:27.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: And not just in New York.
[26:27.910 --> 26:32.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you go, uh, throughout most of the country, you won't find stations like WBAI.
[26:32.930 --> 26:47.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Imagine yourself, imagine yourself in some part of the world, some part of the country, let's stay in this country for now, where you couldn't hear things like this, where all you could hear are the commercial stations playing the same songs over and over again.
[26:47.930 --> 26:52.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, yeah, that's okay for when you're, uh, you know, doing something in a factory, perhaps.
[26:52.830 --> 26:56.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: But occasionally, don't you like to sit down and listen to the radio?
[26:56.270 --> 26:57.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, really, listen to the radio?
[26:57.970 --> 26:58.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hear something?
[26:59.030 --> 27:00.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hear, uh, commentary and thought?
[27:00.990 --> 27:02.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: And yes, get angry!
[27:02.870 --> 27:09.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: You ever want to throw something at your radio when you listen to WBAI because you hear something that's just so incredibly outrageous that you've just got to react?
[27:10.230 --> 27:11.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's great!
[27:11.990 --> 27:14.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's great that radio can do that to you.
[27:14.210 --> 27:20.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: And increasingly, uh, increasingly few numbers stations are able to do this.
[27:21.670 --> 27:27.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: The, the, the thing these days is not to ruffle anybody's feathers.
[27:27.990 --> 27:32.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: To appeal to as many people at once as you possibly can.
[27:32.750 --> 27:35.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: Did you ever try to, uh, please everybody in your life?
[27:36.270 --> 27:39.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: You become rather, uh, dull and uninteresting when you do that.
[27:39.410 --> 27:43.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what most of the radio stations have become is dull and uninteresting.
[27:43.370 --> 27:47.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, they don't play anything that, uh, that really, uh, ruffles your feathers.
[27:47.170 --> 27:50.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: When's the last time you heard hardcore on, uh, on commercial radio?
[27:50.510 --> 27:51.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hardcore being a style of music.
[27:52.390 --> 27:53.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, or even something like reggae.
[27:54.070 --> 27:54.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you don't hear that.
[27:54.910 --> 27:59.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: You don't hear anything, uh, different or in the slightest bit controversial.
[28:00.890 --> 28:03.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: And there's another, another reason for this.
[28:03.250 --> 28:12.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: The reason being that, uh, commercials, in addition to not wanting to offend your listeners in any way, you don't want to offend your sponsors at all.
[28:13.490 --> 28:19.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: And here at WBAI, in case, uh, you haven't noticed this, we do not have any commercials.
[28:19.390 --> 28:20.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not one.
[28:20.310 --> 28:21.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not a single commercial.
[28:21.710 --> 28:22.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're not allowed to.
[28:23.170 --> 28:25.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's part of the Pacifica Charter.
[28:25.110 --> 28:27.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: We never will as long as this station is here.
[28:27.770 --> 28:30.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: But whether or not this station remains here, that's up to you.
[28:30.690 --> 28:33.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[28:33.410 --> 28:36.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Show your support for non-commercial radio, innovative radio.
[28:36.710 --> 28:44.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we could sell this frequency and move to another less desirable frequency and probably be able to survive off that.
[28:44.530 --> 28:53.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: But don't you think it would be a lot better to survive off the people who get something out of WBAI and keep the station strong, keep the station where it is now?
[28:54.750 --> 28:56.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[28:56.650 --> 28:57.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please show your support.
[28:57.690 --> 28:58.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: We need to know you're out there.
[28:58.870 --> 28:59.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: We really do.
[28:59.690 --> 29:02.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: We need to know that, uh, you support programs like Off The Hook.
[29:02.710 --> 29:05.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[29:05.350 --> 29:10.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Remember, everybody that calls in will get a free copy of 2600 The Hacker Quarterly, the most recent edition.
[29:10.530 --> 29:13.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: The magazine that, uh, certainly has a lot of enemies.
[29:13.670 --> 29:19.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's because, uh, it uncovers things and reveals things that a lot of people would wish they did not reveal.
[29:20.170 --> 29:22.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's no other way to, uh, to put it.
[29:22.150 --> 29:33.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: But like any, um, any, uh, journalist, any particular news magazine or any, anything in the slightest bit having to do with investigative journalism, you're going to make enemies.
[29:33.350 --> 29:35.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have to deal with that particular fact.
[29:35.430 --> 29:36.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to make enemies.
[29:36.530 --> 29:48.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to, uh, make people upset, but you're also going to enlighten the vast majority of other people who will get something from what you do that they never would have gotten in the first place.
[29:48.470 --> 29:50.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[29:50.510 --> 29:57.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you think you've gotten anything at all out of WBAI that you wouldn't have gotten in any other way, please show your support now.
[29:57.410 --> 30:02.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not so much that you're giving away money to us, it's that you're investing in us.
[30:02.590 --> 30:09.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're investing a, a, a small bit of whatever it is you can afford, and we will pay off in the future.
[30:09.930 --> 30:11.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have paid off in the past.
[30:11.730 --> 30:17.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: WBAI brings you all kinds of, uh, of terrific programming, unique programming, innovative, uh, programming.
[30:18.210 --> 30:22.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you need a book, literally a monthly book to follow it all.
[30:22.630 --> 30:29.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you will get that monthly book mailed to you every month, wherever it is that you happen to be, uh, with any pledge that you, uh, call in to us.
[30:29.790 --> 30:31.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[30:32.190 --> 30:39.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please show your support for this radio station, for Pacifica, uh, for innovation in New York City in the tri-state area.
[30:39.510 --> 30:45.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there are, there's other non-commercial radio stations, and some of them are quite good, but none of them are quite like WBAI.
[30:45.550 --> 30:54.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: None of them have the, the wide ranging number of people that, uh, do radio programs and, and span the globe and talk to people all over the world about, uh, emerging situations.
[30:55.050 --> 30:59.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: We bring you the latest out of Thailand, uh, where there's, uh, pro-democracy movements going on.
[30:59.890 --> 31:07.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: We bring you the latest out of Nigeria, out of, uh, Eastern Europe, the former Soviet Union, all kinds of places throughout the globe.
[31:07.890 --> 31:11.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: And no other station, no other radio station is interested in doing that.
[31:11.830 --> 31:16.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Other radio stations simply want to bring you the latest hits and make money off of you.
[31:16.390 --> 31:19.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we're not trying to make money off of you by, by selling commercials.
[31:19.690 --> 31:21.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're asking you to support us.
[31:21.750 --> 31:23.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a big difference between the two concepts.
[31:23.810 --> 31:28.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: By supporting us, you're giving a vote, uh, in our favor.
[31:28.390 --> 31:32.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you're showing us that, uh, WBAI actually does make a difference.
[31:33.030 --> 31:34.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[31:35.070 --> 31:38.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: A couple more calls, then we'll go back to the, uh, to the program.
[31:38.390 --> 31:42.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have, uh, a few surprises, a few interesting things to, uh, to share with you.
[31:42.590 --> 31:47.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, we'd like to, uh, to see that those calls are actually, uh, coming in.
[31:48.390 --> 31:51.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[31:51.470 --> 31:55.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Those of you on Long Island, of course, uh, you get our signal as well.
[31:55.650 --> 31:57.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: People in Connecticut, uh, New Jersey.
[31:57.810 --> 32:02.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: I happen to know the signal travels into Pennsylvania because, uh, I was actually driving around listening to WBAI.
[32:03.110 --> 32:11.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, but of course, uh, we don't, uh, have the money to, uh, to make our signal, uh, travel as far as some of those other radio stations.
[32:11.390 --> 32:15.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: We can't just simply buy out stations and have them simulcast our signal.
[32:15.370 --> 32:18.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: It just doesn't work that way for, uh, for non-commercial stations.
[32:18.930 --> 32:23.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, uh, we can do as well as we can with what we have, and that's all we're trying to do.
[32:24.350 --> 32:26.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[32:26.670 --> 32:28.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: The program is off the hook.
[32:28.410 --> 32:31.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, we come your way every Wednesday night at nine o'clock.
[32:31.170 --> 32:40.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: We bring you, uh, different innovative, uh, ways of dealing with technology that would not be aired were it not for this radio station.
[32:41.030 --> 32:44.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: There are no other radio stations that would air this particular program.
[32:44.730 --> 32:45.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's a fact.
[32:45.910 --> 32:52.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a fact because, uh, I know people at other radio stations and they wish they could air what we do here.
[32:52.290 --> 32:55.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: They wish they could show people how to use their phones and what computer hackers really do.
[32:56.550 --> 32:59.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: But in order to do that, they would have to offend their sponsors.
[33:00.030 --> 33:02.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: And as we said before, that simply is not allowed.
[33:03.090 --> 33:04.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we don't have sponsors.
[33:04.830 --> 33:06.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Our only sponsors are our listeners.
[33:06.730 --> 33:09.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: And so far, our listeners seem quite happy with what we're doing.
[33:10.050 --> 33:11.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please show that happiness.
[33:11.690 --> 33:16.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not that you're, you're unbounded joy and it by itself doesn't mean something.
[33:16.510 --> 33:16.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: It does.
[33:17.330 --> 33:20.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, uh, we can't pay the bills with that, unfortunately.
[33:20.650 --> 33:24.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: So if you can reach into your pocket for, uh, whatever it is you can afford.
[33:24.850 --> 33:34.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Remember, we do take Visa and MasterCard in case you have a Visa and MasterCard, uh, and, uh, you can pay it off that way, however, however much or however little you, uh, you feel like doing.
[33:34.930 --> 33:40.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, that makes things easier for, for lots of us, uh, uh, by, by using that particular way of doing it.
[33:40.430 --> 33:42.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, call up 212-279-3400.
[33:43.170 --> 33:44.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Show your support for the radio station.
[33:44.890 --> 33:46.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: You only take a couple of minutes.
[33:46.170 --> 33:53.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: You'll talk to a volunteer, uh, who has, uh, taken time off from, from their busy schedules to actually come in and answer the phones.
[33:54.030 --> 33:55.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, anybody out there can do that.
[33:56.070 --> 34:03.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's how most of us on the air got our start by simply coming into the radio station and answering phones and hearing from some other WBAI listeners.
[34:04.410 --> 34:06.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[34:06.310 --> 34:07.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Show your support.
[34:07.670 --> 34:09.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Give a call to us.
[34:09.330 --> 34:10.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: You'll feel good about it.
[34:10.530 --> 34:11.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: You really will.
[34:11.490 --> 34:13.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[34:14.450 --> 34:14.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[34:16.090 --> 34:17.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have a full switchboard.
[34:17.290 --> 34:18.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Every single line on the, uh, phone is lit.
[34:18.950 --> 34:19.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's very good.
[34:19.890 --> 34:21.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: Very nice sign there.
[34:21.570 --> 34:24.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we'll see, uh, how many of those are actual pledges.
[34:24.790 --> 34:30.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: And of course, I don't have to tell you folks that, uh, uh, once you make the pledge, you're halfway there.
[34:30.190 --> 34:31.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: You still have to pay the pledge.
[34:31.750 --> 34:33.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's very important that you pay the pledge.
[34:33.930 --> 34:37.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I know, uh, 99.9% of you, uh, will do that.
[34:38.530 --> 34:38.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[34:39.110 --> 34:40.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400 is the number.
[34:41.130 --> 34:44.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you're getting a busy signal now, please, please don't give up.
[34:44.150 --> 34:46.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't give up because, uh, we do need your support.
[34:46.990 --> 34:48.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Every individual listener counts here.
[34:48.770 --> 34:50.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: You all mean something to us.
[34:50.810 --> 34:51.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[34:51.830 --> 34:59.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, there is a surprise, uh, going on in various, uh, various parts of New York, of the tri-state area.
[34:59.850 --> 35:03.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Something that, uh, the phone companies are not telling you.
[35:04.310 --> 35:08.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I, I don't suppose, uh, that comes as a surprise to too many people.
[35:08.730 --> 35:15.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's not, it's not things like this so much where you have tens of thousands of people talking to each other all of a sudden.
[35:16.410 --> 35:19.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Boy, that just does something to me.
[35:19.310 --> 35:21.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's just listen to this for a couple of seconds here.
[35:44.500 --> 35:55.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, if you dig down into the law books, you can probably figure out that we're breaking some kind of law by, by broadcasting, uh, all these conversations without getting the permission of each and every one of these people.
[35:55.100 --> 36:04.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I think it's so much more fun to, uh, simply show you what's going on out there.
[36:11.270 --> 36:19.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's, uh, there's a lot of things, um, that are happening where if you look carefully at the laws, you'll never get anything done.
[36:22.890 --> 36:30.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: For instance, our recent call to, uh, to make a collection of overheard cellular phone calls.
[36:32.390 --> 36:38.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: People are sending us, uh, cassettes of, uh, cellular phone calls that they are able to hear simply by tuning their radio.
[36:38.770 --> 36:42.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, if you look at the laws, it's illegal to listen.
[36:44.810 --> 36:46.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: But who says we're listening?
[36:52.830 --> 36:56.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, something else that, uh, has just started happening.
[36:56.450 --> 37:02.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, if you recall a month or two ago, caller ID was, uh, approved for the New York metropolitan area.
[37:02.810 --> 37:16.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, for all of New York state, uh, the public service commission said, yes, it's okay to offer caller ID as long as you provide a means of blocking, as long as consumers are not forced to give out their phone numbers.
[37:17.250 --> 37:23.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, something rather startling has, uh, has occurred over the past, uh, couple of weeks.
[37:23.930 --> 37:26.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, actually it's, it's not so much startling.
[37:26.710 --> 37:31.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just kind of, uh, well, I guess there's a difference between surprising and, and startling.
[37:31.170 --> 37:33.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of surprising, but not really startling.
[37:33.170 --> 37:35.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you have to read the daily news to know what the difference is.
[37:35.950 --> 37:39.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: But the thing is, caller ID is already working.
[37:40.470 --> 37:41.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[37:41.170 --> 37:44.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's already here in very many places anyway.
[37:45.110 --> 37:48.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, the way I found out about this was, was quite by accident.
[37:49.030 --> 37:56.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, somebody I know said, Hey, do you know, if I dial this particular sequence, I can call back the person that just called me.
[37:57.590 --> 38:00.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I said, no, no, no, no, that's not possible.
[38:00.290 --> 38:01.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: That hasn't come yet.
[38:01.370 --> 38:05.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not going to be for at least another year that caller ID is, is available in the New York area.
[38:07.110 --> 38:11.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, of course, being the curious person I am, I decided to try it.
[38:11.670 --> 38:12.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: And guess what?
[38:12.730 --> 38:13.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: It worked.
[38:14.130 --> 38:21.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now we're going to have a new vocabulary very soon that will, um, that will dictate the way we live our lives.
[38:22.310 --> 38:26.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, caller ID is going to, of course, change the way that we deal with telephones.
[38:26.750 --> 38:31.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: No longer will you be able to call somebody and say, surprise, it's Uncle Buddy from Florida.
[38:31.550 --> 38:31.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-uh.
[38:32.050 --> 38:37.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not going to work that way anymore because they're going to know Uncle Buddy is on the phone calling before they even pick up.
[38:37.310 --> 38:51.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, they'll be able to decide whether or not they want to talk to Uncle Buddy or send him someplace else, forward him to, uh, a disconnected recording, or just pretend they're not home, or have a choice comment to say about the last time that he visited,
[38:51.790 --> 38:56.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: or just have a particular script already for the next time Uncle Buddy calls.
[38:56.550 --> 39:02.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: When you see him ringing your phone, you, uh, you access that particular script on your computer and begin reading it.
[39:03.610 --> 39:08.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to change our lives, and we're going to have new words to deal with.
[39:08.230 --> 39:13.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: And one of those words, one of those words is going to be the phrase 69.
[39:14.470 --> 39:21.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're going to be saying things like, uh, I'll 69 you, or can you 69 that, dear?
[39:22.350 --> 39:24.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, you're wondering, what in the world I'm talking about?
[39:25.130 --> 39:27.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: 69, what kind of a, what kind of a verb is that?
[39:27.830 --> 39:31.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: How could anybody, uh, uh, use a, a word like 69?
[39:31.930 --> 39:40.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you see, there's a feature, a feature called Star 6-9, and you're all going to become very familiar with it real soon.
[39:41.170 --> 39:52.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, there's a chance, a fairly good chance, and, and something that we can, uh, sort of take a poll on tonight, a fairly good chance that Star 69 already works where you are.
[39:53.550 --> 39:58.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: I know it works in at least one major area, and, uh, there's a chance it works where you are.
[39:58.290 --> 40:04.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Star 69 is the, um, is the code to access the caller ID feature known as return call.
[40:04.770 --> 40:07.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: And what this does is it gives you the last number called.
[40:07.970 --> 40:10.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: It, uh, lets you dial it just by dialing Star 69.
[40:11.090 --> 40:21.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's say somebody calls you, and you're in the shower, and you hear the phone ringing, and you fall over yourself trying to get to the telephone, and you just make it, and, lo and behold, they hang up just as you get to it.
[40:21.770 --> 40:27.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, no longer do you need to cuss and swear and throw the phone against the wall and do all kinds of other horrible things.
[40:27.610 --> 40:30.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can simply pick up your phone and dial Star 69.
[40:30.290 --> 40:31.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: And guess what?
[40:31.550 --> 40:33.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: That person's phone will ring.
[40:34.290 --> 40:36.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you'll be able to say, yeah, what did you want?
[40:38.250 --> 40:41.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, as of now, of course, this only works in a local area.
[40:42.970 --> 40:48.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, you better believe, and I can tell because all the codes around the country seem to be the same thing.
[40:48.270 --> 40:50.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Star 69 is not, by any means, a local phenomenon.
[40:51.510 --> 40:56.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: In future years, if somebody from California calls you, you'll be able to 69 them.
[40:57.050 --> 40:58.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's as simple as that.
[40:58.310 --> 41:00.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, we're going to, uh, we're going to try something.
[41:00.750 --> 41:04.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because, uh, we have a particular, uh, uh, phone system here.
[41:04.450 --> 41:05.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: I doubt very much it's going to work.
[41:06.230 --> 41:08.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: But here is our particular WBAI dial tone.
[41:09.370 --> 41:11.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, we have to dial nine to get out.
[41:11.910 --> 41:12.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, now we're outside.
[41:13.130 --> 41:14.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't sound like we did anything differently.
[41:14.930 --> 41:16.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now we're going to dial Star 69.
[41:19.190 --> 41:20.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it hung up our phone.
[41:20.270 --> 41:21.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's, that's the BAI phone system.
[41:21.630 --> 41:22.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's try it again.
[41:22.510 --> 41:23.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: And hopefully it won't do that.
[41:30.780 --> 41:31.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, let's see what happened.
[41:45.860 --> 41:52.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, in the usual New York Telephone, uh, recording style, we're getting one of their error messages.
[41:54.400 --> 41:56.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how they expect anybody to understand this.
[41:57.020 --> 42:00.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, that's horrible.
[42:00.480 --> 42:01.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Horrible sound there.
[42:01.760 --> 42:04.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, what we, uh, what we had there is an error message.
[42:04.540 --> 42:06.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: We actually played that one a couple of weeks ago.
[42:06.360 --> 42:12.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: What I suspect it means is that our particular phone system here is completely blocked from doing anything interesting.
[42:12.220 --> 42:16.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: We can't reach 700 numbers, 900 numbers, uh, or all kinds of other things.
[42:16.360 --> 42:27.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's for our own protection, actually, because when you have a large number of people working in an establishment, uh, it's possible somebody might, let's just say, dial the wrong number and get something that, uh, charges $100 a minute.
[42:27.420 --> 42:36.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I'm not quite sure why it's blocking particular features like star features that, uh, uh, are used for caller ID features.
[42:36.760 --> 42:43.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: But a way you can test it is to pick up your phone, assuming, uh, you're not calling in a pledge right now, and dial star 69.
[42:43.640 --> 43:01.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, if, uh, if you get an error message that sounds, uh, kind of different, says something like, uh, this feature is not yet working, or, uh, or your phone has not been called, or something different that you have not heard before, then there's a good chance star 69 will work in your area.
[43:02.080 --> 43:06.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, now, of course, those of you in New Jersey have had caller ID for, uh, for quite some time.
[43:06.160 --> 43:09.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, New Jerseyans were, uh, among the first in the country to get, uh, caller ID.
[43:10.600 --> 43:15.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, for us here in New York, though, it's a bit, uh, a bit new, something we're still getting used to.
[43:15.520 --> 43:16.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, try it.
[43:16.520 --> 43:17.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Try star 69.
[43:17.380 --> 43:21.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, the best way to test it is to have somebody call you.
[43:21.480 --> 43:24.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you have two phones in your home, dial star 69.
[43:25.040 --> 43:30.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, call one phone with another phone and hang up before the other phone has the chance to answer.
[43:30.880 --> 43:36.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then, from the other phone, pick up and dial star 69 and see if your first phone rings.
[43:37.880 --> 43:38.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay?
[43:38.680 --> 43:41.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's, uh, quite possible that it will.
[43:41.260 --> 43:45.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's another feature, too, called star 57, which is called trace.
[43:46.000 --> 43:49.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, call trace is different, uh, than, uh, return call.
[43:49.560 --> 43:50.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't return the call.
[43:51.060 --> 43:56.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: However, it does make a note of the phone number, and it forwards that information to the authorities.
[43:57.100 --> 44:00.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the authorities go and kill the person who made the phone call.
[44:01.880 --> 44:03.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wait, I'm ahead of myself.
[44:03.360 --> 44:03.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
[44:04.360 --> 44:06.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's not scheduled to be implemented for another three years.
[44:07.140 --> 44:09.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, what it does is alert the authorities.
[44:09.940 --> 44:11.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll just stop there.
[44:11.780 --> 44:13.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: And if you want to press charges, you can.
[44:13.820 --> 44:15.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's all kinds of other variations.
[44:15.800 --> 44:20.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, we did a, uh, a, uh, feature on this, uh, in the winter issue of 2600.
[44:21.060 --> 44:26.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Selective call acceptance, uh, call screening, distinctive ringing, preferred call forwarding.
[44:26.540 --> 44:28.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Some people get forwarded, some people don't.
[44:29.220 --> 44:33.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, all kinds of things that we're all going to be, um, subjected to.
[44:33.960 --> 44:40.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: But what I think is the most significant is that there's no way to block your number from being 69.
[44:41.400 --> 44:53.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: In other words, if you have caller ID blocking, or as we all do right now, no caller ID at all, you cannot prevent your particular number from being called back.
[44:53.940 --> 44:54.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's that simple.
[44:55.000 --> 44:56.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: You cannot stop it.
[44:57.100 --> 45:11.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: So even when caller ID is in effect, and you think that you're protecting yourself by not having your, uh, your particular phone number show up, you're only kidding yourself because you can call somebody and they can call you right back.
[45:11.340 --> 45:17.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: And while technically they may not have your telephone number, they will be able to call you.
[45:17.220 --> 45:18.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: Make no mistake about that.
[45:18.280 --> 45:23.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: And a lot of us will be able to get the phone number from that bit of information.
[45:23.940 --> 45:28.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: So our privacy is definitely, uh, it's going to change.
[45:28.520 --> 45:31.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to change rather drastically.
[45:32.100 --> 45:35.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's, uh, the latest on, uh, on class features.
[45:35.160 --> 45:44.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: I do want to, uh, want to show you one thing that, uh, uh, is kind of a clue as far as how we got that particular bit of information.
[45:44.240 --> 45:44.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: What have we here?
[45:45.220 --> 45:48.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, there is a 50 cent charge for every star 69 dial.
[45:48.940 --> 45:51.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's somebody just called in that bit of information.
[45:51.520 --> 45:59.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, that might be true, uh, in New Jersey, but it can't be true in New York yet because the service does not yet exist.
[45:59.900 --> 46:04.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: So when the service exists, they may charge you, uh, 50 cents for that particular.
[46:04.340 --> 46:07.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll tell you what, here's the best, uh, the best way to find out.
[46:07.820 --> 46:12.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Always the best way is to get an operator on the phone.
[46:12.240 --> 46:19.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: So let's, uh, see if we can actually get an operator here that will, uh, give us information.
[46:21.120 --> 46:22.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: New York Telephone's finest.
[46:28.920 --> 46:31.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, yes.
[46:31.280 --> 46:32.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, is this the New York Telephone operator?
[46:32.840 --> 46:33.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[46:33.540 --> 46:38.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, I'm trying to find out, uh, what the, uh, star 69 feature is in my telephone.
[46:39.780 --> 46:40.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[46:40.440 --> 46:41.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hold a moment, please.
[46:41.460 --> 46:42.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much.
[46:51.720 --> 46:52.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know where I'm going.
[47:03.640 --> 47:05.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: You have reached the New York Telephone Repair Service.
[47:06.300 --> 47:08.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: All attendants are presently Repair Service?
[47:08.960 --> 47:10.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: We will be with you shortly.
[47:12.820 --> 47:14.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: My phone's not broken.
[47:18.710 --> 47:20.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is what happens if you ask a question.
[47:20.570 --> 47:22.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you for calling New York Telephone Repair Service, Mrs. Ismail.
[47:23.270 --> 47:23.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, yes.
[47:24.190 --> 47:24.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, operator.
[47:24.690 --> 47:25.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think this might be a mistake.
[47:25.830 --> 47:27.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: I called my operator and she transferred me to you.
[47:27.890 --> 47:29.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just had a question about my telephone.
[47:30.090 --> 47:30.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[47:30.310 --> 47:32.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: About the star 69 feature.
[47:32.270 --> 47:33.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know anything about that?
[47:33.370 --> 47:33.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[47:33.910 --> 47:34.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Ah, what is it?
[47:35.310 --> 47:39.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, you have, um, uh-ha, phone mate, right?
[47:40.530 --> 47:41.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, phone mate.
[47:41.510 --> 47:41.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: I do not.
[47:42.030 --> 47:42.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[47:42.250 --> 47:43.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's what you... you do not have phone mate?
[47:43.830 --> 47:44.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not that I know of.
[47:44.670 --> 47:45.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: What is phone mate?
[47:45.370 --> 47:46.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's star 69.
[47:47.110 --> 47:49.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a feature that they add on your line.
[47:50.030 --> 47:51.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Ring phone smart.
[47:52.670 --> 47:54.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, what is phone smart?
[47:54.890 --> 47:55.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, hold on.
[48:13.700 --> 48:19.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, phone smart is something similar to a call forward and call wait and those type of features.
[48:20.220 --> 48:22.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's a feature that they add on your line.
[48:23.260 --> 48:24.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: And what does it do?
[48:25.160 --> 48:26.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, it does a lot of things.
[48:26.860 --> 48:28.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Repeat dialing, call return.
[48:28.560 --> 48:31.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you, if you want to reach a person, right?
[48:31.800 --> 48:32.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[48:32.180 --> 48:34.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you, you keep dialing the person, the person not home.
[48:35.020 --> 48:35.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[48:35.380 --> 48:37.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: And program the, uh, telephone.
[48:38.280 --> 48:46.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can dial star 66 and it will keep dialing that number for you until the party answers.
[48:47.320 --> 48:47.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[48:48.420 --> 48:50.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Same thing with, uh, star 69.
[48:51.240 --> 48:53.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Star 69 is call return.
[48:53.580 --> 48:57.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: If they're calling you and you're not home, it will continue calling you until you answer.
[48:57.640 --> 48:57.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sir.
[48:58.020 --> 49:01.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: So by dialing star 69, I can call back the last person that called me.
[49:02.040 --> 49:02.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[49:02.800 --> 49:04.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: And is that part of caller ID?
[49:04.440 --> 49:05.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, that's not caller ID.
[49:05.700 --> 49:06.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's phone smart.
[49:07.300 --> 49:07.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[49:07.900 --> 49:10.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, uh, doesn't it get the person's phone number that calls you?
[49:10.920 --> 49:12.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Caller ID, which is part of phone smart.
[49:13.080 --> 49:21.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it is a form of caller ID, which is part of phone smart service that has been approved by the New York City PSC.
[49:21.760 --> 49:23.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: And how long has this been offered for?
[49:23.420 --> 49:24.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, where are you at?
[49:24.540 --> 49:25.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: What area call you in?
[49:25.500 --> 49:26.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: 2-1-2.
[49:26.520 --> 49:27.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're in the 2-1-2?
[49:27.560 --> 49:27.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[49:28.220 --> 49:30.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if it's offered in the 2-1-2.
[49:30.320 --> 49:31.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you have it?
[49:31.460 --> 49:35.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, well, somebody told me about it, and I'm simply investigating it a little further.
[49:35.580 --> 49:36.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think it's in the 2-1-2.
[49:37.100 --> 49:39.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know it started off in the 9-1-4 area.
[49:39.900 --> 49:42.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right now, it is in the 5-1-6 area.
[49:42.700 --> 49:45.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let me check if it's in the 2-1-2 area, okay?
[49:45.720 --> 49:46.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hold on for me.
[49:46.400 --> 49:46.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[49:49.740 --> 49:52.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're, uh, checking into this a little further, getting some more information.
[50:10.120 --> 50:13.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we have some other, uh, information that we want to pass along to you.
[50:17.460 --> 50:20.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, we can't while we're on hold, but...
[50:22.390 --> 50:29.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: See, folks, if you support us, we'll be able to talk and, uh, hear the other person at the same time.
[50:29.570 --> 50:33.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: You see, I could read this other story now, but then I wouldn't be able to hear the person when they came back.
[50:33.950 --> 50:36.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then they'd be talking, and I wouldn't hear them, and...
[50:36.890 --> 50:39.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: mass confusion will result.
[50:40.230 --> 50:44.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: But what I can do is say, please give us a call and, uh, show your support.
[50:44.470 --> 50:46.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: I see we're at $807 for this show.
[50:48.950 --> 50:51.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Which is great, but we need to reach $1,000.
[50:53.890 --> 50:57.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: So please give us a call now, 212-279-3400.
[50:58.190 --> 50:59.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: You won't get the runaround from us.
[51:01.630 --> 51:05.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you will get, uh, more bits of information as we find them out.
[51:05.250 --> 51:06.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we will share them with you.
[51:07.470 --> 51:08.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: See, the operator there.
[51:10.850 --> 51:12.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm thinking seriously of dumping her.
[51:17.060 --> 51:20.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'm afraid, uh, I'm afraid we can't do this.
[51:20.520 --> 51:23.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, no, I'm sorry, we just can't do this.
[51:24.220 --> 51:24.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[51:25.140 --> 51:33.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was a patient person, but, uh, you just can't stay on hold on a 50,000-watt FM radio station in the middle of New York for too long.
[51:34.040 --> 51:38.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, any event, it looks like I was wrong about one thing anyway.
[51:38.460 --> 51:46.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: The service is being announced publicly by New York Telephone, although I certainly don't, uh, know anything about it being in the area where it's being offered.
[51:46.740 --> 51:50.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, you might not know that it's in your area, but it is in your area.
[51:54.680 --> 51:59.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: And while they may not say it's a form of caller ID, you tell me what the difference is.
[52:00.760 --> 52:08.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Tell me what the difference between having somebody's number show up on a screen and being able to call them right back is to somebody's privacy.
[52:08.560 --> 52:10.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can't block this.
[52:11.340 --> 52:12.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can't turn this off.
[52:13.100 --> 52:17.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can return a phone call even if it's blocked.
[52:24.460 --> 52:25.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, another bit of information.
[52:25.980 --> 52:27.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, there's something else I wanted to show people.
[52:27.640 --> 52:28.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: But first, let me appeal one more time.
[52:29.060 --> 52:30.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[52:31.020 --> 52:31.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please show your support.
[52:32.360 --> 52:36.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Those of you ringing the other lines, we're not going to have time for phone calls this, uh, this week.
[52:36.540 --> 52:37.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: We won't be on next week.
[52:37.920 --> 52:38.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're being preempted next week.
[52:38.920 --> 52:45.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll be back in two weeks and we'll be able to take phone calls then and, uh, hopefully be able to discuss a lot of this information.
[52:45.500 --> 53:04.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, you can find out, as we were talking to Bill from Amsterdam before, if you have a particular, uh, so-called feature that allows you to be tied into, uh, hundreds, maybe thousands of people at the same time or, in all likelihood, one or two.
[53:06.860 --> 53:10.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a feature of a, uh, of a switch known as the DMS-100.
[53:11.120 --> 53:18.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, by calling a particular number, you can find out if you have a DMS-100.
[53:18.080 --> 53:18.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Listen to this.
[53:23.130 --> 53:39.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: You will reach the verification test number for the Ronkonkoma number 5ESS, serving exchanges 467, 468, 471, 585, 588, 737, and 981 in the 516 area code.
[53:44.800 --> 53:48.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, that was what's known as a verification number.
[53:49.000 --> 54:02.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: And by calling your exchange, followed by 9901, you can find out if, uh, if you have a DMS-100, which is made by Northern Telecom, or a number 5ESS, or something else.
[54:02.360 --> 54:05.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: In most exchanges, that works in New York.
[54:05.230 --> 54:11.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: And if you have the DMS-100, it's a good chance that, uh, you'll get all kinds of interesting crosstalk connections and things like that.
[54:11.710 --> 54:19.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll go more into detail on that in future programs, um, and give you as many details as we find out.
[54:19.270 --> 54:34.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: The caller ID, though, is something that we will be following very closely, and telling people what the threat is, and what the non-threats are, because there are some advantages to it, but, uh, for the most part, it means our way of making phone calls is going to change dramatically.
[54:35.460 --> 54:39.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we have to get serious now, because we haven't gotten any phone calls in in the last, uh, few minutes.
[54:40.320 --> 54:45.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: We've been bringing you lots of little bits of information, and as you can see, we're learning things, too, as we go along.
[54:45.840 --> 54:52.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, the only way to, uh, to share this information is to call people and, uh, find out straight from the horse's mouth, as it were.
[54:53.380 --> 54:56.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now we need to hear from, uh, some people out there.
[54:56.120 --> 55:01.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: 2-1-2-2-7-9-3-4-100, uh, 2-1-2-2-7-9-3-4-100.
[55:02.020 --> 55:06.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Those of you out in Long Island that just found out that you have this particular service, yes, it exists.
[55:06.960 --> 55:08.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Even if you haven't asked for it, it exists.
[55:08.860 --> 55:13.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, these kind of things are, uh, are being snuck upon you.
[55:13.560 --> 55:16.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, things like, um, free call waiting.
[55:16.500 --> 55:23.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's an area out by me that, uh, is upgrading, finally, from a, a mechanical central office switch to something electronic.
[55:23.080 --> 55:26.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, that means that call, call waiting will be available for the first time.
[55:27.120 --> 55:28.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can imagine places that don't have call waiting.
[55:28.750 --> 55:29.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: They still exist.
[55:29.710 --> 55:35.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, what they've done is, they've said, everybody is going to get call waiting free for two months, and then they'll have to pay for it.
[55:35.540 --> 55:40.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're, they're sneaking it onto you, they're getting you hooked on it, and then they're saying, okay, now pay for it.
[55:41.180 --> 55:50.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's really, uh, pretty sleazy, because if you don't do anything, if you don't call them and say, no, no, I don't want caller ID, or call waiting, I'm sorry, I'm getting confused now.
[55:50.640 --> 55:53.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you don't do that, you'll get it.
[55:53.440 --> 55:57.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: You'll hear this strange little beep on the phone, and you won't know what it means, and you won't know what to do with it.
[55:57.340 --> 55:59.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then, after a couple of months, you won't be able to live without it.
[55:59.980 --> 56:02.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then, you'll have to pay for it.
[56:03.210 --> 56:08.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was just on the phone with, uh, the phone company, um, a few days ago, ordering a, a new phone line.
[56:09.480 --> 56:16.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the person on the other end had the gall to say to me that, uh, you know, I don't think the second phone line is going to work unless you get touch tones.
[56:16.460 --> 56:18.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Unless you pay for touch tone service.
[56:20.020 --> 56:24.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I don't think I have to explain what that statement amounts to.
[56:24.790 --> 56:30.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, uh, it's incredible what people will try to tell you if they feel that you don't understand technology.
[56:30.750 --> 56:32.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what we're trying to alleviate here.
[56:32.360 --> 56:37.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're trying to let people know how things really work and why things really work.
[56:37.540 --> 56:39.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please, help us continue to do that.
[56:39.620 --> 56:42.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400 is the phone number.
[56:42.680 --> 56:43.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Show your support.
[56:43.660 --> 56:45.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: We only have a couple of minutes left in the program.
[56:45.900 --> 56:52.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the last chance, uh, that we will have on this particular radio program to, uh, get support from listeners.
[56:52.290 --> 56:54.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[56:54.080 --> 57:00.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody that, uh, calls to contribute will receive a free copy of 2600, The Hacker Quarterly.
[57:00.820 --> 57:09.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, the brand new edition that just came out today, in fact, uh, today being, uh, the first day that it was in the mail and on newsstands.
[57:09.360 --> 57:11.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[57:11.960 --> 57:13.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please show your support.
[57:13.270 --> 57:15.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: The Personal Computer Show is coming up next.
[57:15.790 --> 57:19.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, they're going to be bringing you all kinds of, uh, interesting bits of information, as they always do.
[57:19.820 --> 57:23.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: But we need to see one final flurry of, uh, phone mania here.
[57:24.080 --> 57:26.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[57:26.140 --> 57:32.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: We want to be able to come back in two weeks, holding our heads up high, and, uh, continuing to bring you the latest in information.
[57:33.940 --> 57:35.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[57:35.340 --> 57:36.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: We want to thank all those people that called in.
[57:36.900 --> 57:38.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have three callers on the line.
[57:38.860 --> 57:40.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's fill up that switchboard.
[57:40.440 --> 57:41.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Should I get out of here?
[57:41.340 --> 57:42.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I have to get out of here now.
[57:42.520 --> 57:44.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, please, uh, show your support.
[57:45.210 --> 57:46.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[57:47.100 --> 57:50.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks to everybody that did call in, and thanks to those of you that have your fingers on the dials.
[57:51.230 --> 57:52.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[57:52.560 --> 57:53.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll see you in two weeks.
[57:59.620 --> 58:04.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[58:05.040 --> 58:07.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: I cut myself while shaving.
[58:07.720 --> 58:08.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now I...