And now, this is WBAI, New York, at 9 p.m.
One message, and then we get to Emmanuel.
It's brunch time again.
On Sunday, June 7th, WBAI producers, members, and friends
will gather at Bernard's French Cuisine on the Lower East Side
for brunch to benefit WBAI.
Meet Delphine Blue, Anthony Sloan, Lauren Camato, Andrew Phillips,
R. Paul Martin, Evelyn Tully-Costa, and many others.
Plus, enjoy fine French cuisine.
And it's only $10, so call 212-279-0707 to make reservations.
See you at Bernard's.
And it's a little bit after 9 o'clock,
and that means it's time for technological revelations
and other things on Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
Bum, diddly, bum, for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bum, diddly, bum!
And R
peace is going.
Bye.
Good evening to one and all.
This is Emanuel Goldstein.
The program is Off the Hook, where we talk about technology and its many uses, abuses,
and just those things you haven't thought of,
and also those things that people do not wish you to think of or know about.
That's what we're here for, for the purpose of education and revelation.
It's been an interesting last couple of weeks.
First of all, I want to thank everybody that called in during Marathon
and helped make Off the Hook a successful program in that particular light,
and I do hope that everybody that called in fulfills their pledges.
That certainly adds to the joy of getting a pledge is when the pledges are actually fulfilled,
so I'm sure that won't be any real problem here.
There's been all kinds of hacker developments.
We've got the new issue of The Hacker Quarterly out, 2600 Magazine,
and that's, as usual, causing quite a stir in various enforcement circles,
but that's pretty much what we're here for, as this program is as well.
We're going to be taking quite a bit of phone calls tonight.
This is one of those catch-up programs we weren't on last week,
and as traditional, when we're preempted, we like to hear from listeners.
So the number is 212-279-3400.
We'll be taking as many phone calls as we can possibly fit in the next hour.
Now, there have been all kinds of hacker raids,
people hiding out and remaining silent,
and all kinds of ominous, foreboding signs against those people
that try to bring information to us,
information regarding what kind of operating systems there are,
how they work, what kind of bugs there are,
how easy it is to gain access to particular systems.
And it's, as usual, a frightening thing
when you see such ominous, foreboding signs going on.
But it's something that we have to face,
something that we have to get over,
and something that I'm sure we'll be seeing again
in future years, months, what have you.
So we'll be continuing to bring you the latest
as far as those kind of things go.
All kinds of technological developments, too.
We just discovered something, actually.
There were a number of rumors going around.
We've announced it here on this program a couple of times
concerning AT&T calling card shortcuts.
And I believe now we have finally figured out
just what those shortcuts are.
Now, here's how it would work.
You would dial zero plus your long-distance phone number,
and rather than have to enter that bothersome 14-digit code,
it seemed that a simple 5-digit code would work.
That's right, a 5-digit code.
I believe it started with either 1-3 or 1-5.
I can't recall at the top of my head.
But 1-3, 1-5, and any 3 digits after that
would connect you to the number
that you had just tried to call using O+.
Now, it doesn't take much to realize
that that's not a very safe way to make a free phone call
if that's, in fact, what you're trying to do.
However, we tried it over at the 2600 office
to see what would happen when we tried making a phone call that way.
And what we got back was something rather interesting.
We knew that the number that we were calling from would be recorded,
as is the case with any AT&T or New York Telephone or New Jersey Bell,
what-have-you calling card call.
Your number that you're calling from is always recorded
and will be referenced at some point.
You can count on that.
But this particular feature, this five-digit calling card,
did not work from payphone.
So we knew that whatever it was,
it was something that would eventually
bill back to the number that it was calling from.
What we have found out is that this is part of a service
AT&T offers that they haven't really told anybody about
called AT&T Call Manager.
And the way our phone bill came back,
I believe what we attempted,
depending on whether the code was 1-5 or 1-3,
we entered three 2s after those first two digits.
So it was either 1-3, 2-2-2 or 1-5, 2-2-2
as the calling card number that was requested after the 0+.
And what we got back was simply an indication on the phone bill
saying call accounting code 2-2-2.
So basically what AT&T has is a service
that allows you to break down your calls.
Of course, you have to tell people to dial the call 0+,
and to dial five more digits after that
that would tell you what your particular access authorization code is.
So let's say you have five people that share a phone.
Well, you tell one of those people,
every call you make, you dial 0, area code, number,
and then enter these five digits as your calling card,
and it will show up separately on the same phone bill.
Now, I wasn't able to determine whether or not there's an extra charge for this.
We're looking into it.
AT&T really, they don't advertise these features all that much.
I don't understand why.
It's awfully confusing to consumers.
But those of you that thought that might be a free way to make phone calls,
well, I think we told you from the beginning that it wasn't.
But now you'll find that the calls you were making,
thinking they were free, will simply be a little better itemized.
And that's really about all that they will be.
Now, other things happening, this is on a personal note,
after many, many years, a lifetime really, of being on a crossbar switch,
the phone exchange that currently serves me is going to be cutting over
at the end of this month to a number 5 ESS.
What does that mean?
That means that finally I'll be entering the 80s,
and we'll have such services available as call waiting, call forwarding,
and things like that.
It means the end of a harsh-sounding, busy signal,
mechanical-sounding rings,
and the end of a way of life that we've all grown accustomed to.
And, of course, nobody is aware of this.
People go around with their daily lives not aware that at the end of the month,
things are going to change in a rather subtle way,
but they're going to change enough so that, well, you'll notice it.
You may not notice why you're noticing it,
but you will notice it.
For one thing, touchtones may no longer work in areas that are cut over
because the computers can be programmed to ignore touchtones,
which, again, we feel is an extremely unfair thing for the phone company to do.
There is no special service offered by touchtone service.
Touchtone is the default.
It's the equivalent of charging a fee for every different number that you use.
If you use the number 2, you have to pay more than if you use the number 5 on your touchtone phone.
They can do that.
They can tell you what you can and cannot use,
what you must pay for, and what you can't pay for.
But forcing people to pay for touchtones is horribly unfair,
as we've said for years.
And the fact that an old mechanical system is unable to differentiate who pays and who does not pay
and so gives everybody free service is proof enough that there is no special service being offered here.
The only difference is that an electronic switch can have the sophistication to isolate those people
that have not paid the fee.
Now, I have heard reports, I've yet not been able to verify them,
but encouraging reports that the Public Service Commission will allow this fee to go away in the next couple of years.
This is in New York State.
I know this has already happened in California, Washington,
and various other places around the country.
Wisconsin, too, I believe.
So the battle is being won slowly but surely.
It's just going to be very frustrating, though, at the end of the month when no touchtone phones work anymore.
Unless you pay the extortion fee.
Okay, other things going on.
Here's something affecting you people over in New Jersey.
New Jersey Bell officials said as of May 22nd,
thousands of New Jersey Bell customers were dialing long-distance calls
between February 17th and the 27th of April,
and they weren't being billed for any of the calls.
That's right.
The situation involving about 2 million calls was blamed by New Jersey Bell on an internal programming error.
The error affected 15 exchanges in the state and blanketed all direct dial calls made through AT&T.
AT&T is rather upset at this, too.
New Jersey Bell said that the calls were registered and customers will eventually be back billed,
which could result in some large telephone bills.
And they're extremely nice, though.
They're arranging a flexible billing arrangement, so there's no financial hardship.
Okay.
Something else rather amusing.
This came over the Risks Digest, which is an electronic Usenet newsletter that I encourage everybody to get involved with
and check it out through the Internet or whatever network connections you have.
Comp.Risks is the full name of the newsletter.
This comes from Randy Lindsay.
He says,
It's not uncommon in large companies to require an annual payout,
in which each employee picks up their paycheck in person and displays ID.
This is apparently to guard against payroll padding.
At the facility where I'm doing a project,
all 1,500 employees received a memo ordering them to report to the cafeteria for their annual peyote.
Now, peyote appeared several times in the memo and even in the title line.
Eventually, one of my colleagues ran payout through the spelling checker,
and sure enough, it suggested peyote as the alternative.
For those that don't know, peyote is a drug related to mescaline.
They theorize here that perhaps the spelling checker writers are junior staff
with closer ties to their college countercultural days than to corporate terminology.
But another example of infiltrating the system with whatever you care to infiltrate it with.
Folks in Maryland using food stamps had a bit of a problem.
This, according to the Washington Post of May 13th,
Maryland food stamp clients used a new electronic benefit system,
and they were unable to buy groceries after the state-of-the-art computer system failed,
causing long lines at hundreds of stores in the state.
The system, which the U.S. Department of Agriculture has said it plans to use as a model for the rest of the country,
became overloaded for the second time in a month and shut down for about two hours
as hundreds, possibly thousands of recipients, tried to use their plastic benefit cards to make purchases.
Typically, the first few days of the month are heavy shopping days
because that is when clients receive benefits.
The system reached a point where it clogged.
This, according to Helen Zabdala, spokesman for the Maryland Department of Human Resources,
she said that she did not know if other benefits that are encoded on the plastic cards,
such as welfare payments and child support, were affected.
About 31,000 Maryland residents in Montgomery, Prince George, and Cecil counties,
and Baltimore now have the cards.
Clients in Baltimore, Howard, and Arundel counties are to get the cards by midsummer.
Eventually, 200,000 recipients will use them.
Zabdala said the electronic benefit transfer system is better than the old method
of issuing coupons to clients,
and she said that problems are going to happen because it is the first of its kind in the country.
The system last stopped working April 11th for about two hours.
She says it's going to have blips.
We are happy with the fact that we haven't had more.
So a wonderful way to look at things.
Uh, shoppers and grocery store officials complained of long lines and carts loaded with groceries
abandoned at, uh, checkout stations.
Food stamp clients were given $50 vouchers to make purchases,
but cashiers had to call a toll-free number to verify each transaction.
We just think it's unfortunate that this happens and it inconveniences our customers.
Says, uh, Mitchell Herman, Senior Vice President, Shoppers Food Warehouse.
Okay, here's, uh, something, uh, taken from a Dutch newspaper concerning, uh, the emergence of Big Brother.
Departments of Justice and Traffic over there are studying the possibility to introduce smart cards
to detect, among other things, violations of the traffic laws such as speeding,
which, uh, is quite common on the Dutch highways,
crossing red lights,
frauds with number plates, all kinds of things like that.
Uh, the other things that could be controlled is
whether or not the car owner has paid his insurance fee,
uh, road tax,
uh, whether the car has had its yearly technical check.
The system under study consists of a smart car
to be attached,
a smart card, rather, to be attached to the car.
Detectors in
or near the roads
and a central computer system.
The article says,
A major drawback is the possible feeling that Big Brother is watching you.
By installing a privacy, uh, code on, uh, on this particular car,
data on law violations will only be transferred to the relevant organization.
So you can all, uh, relax,
because it's going to be secure, or so they say.
Another problem is the value of information obtained by electronic means
and stored in magnetic form in court.
Currently, it's up to the judges to value the information provided by computer systems.
Uh, the article ends with,
The organizational consequences, however, are still completely unclear.
Of course, attention should be paid to the protection of the system against tampering.
And, uh, another indication of Big Brother also came to us from the, uh, Risk's Digest.
This is called the risk of serving lunch to the first lady.
Yes, that's right.
According to Timothy Petlock,
Serving lunch to Barbara Bush can cause all sorts of problems from the past to be dug up.
My roommate and I found out firsthand on Saturday afternoon.
He called me 20 minutes after I dropped him off at work, saying,
It seems I'm in jail.
Could you come downtown and bail me out to bring $220?
Because, well, it seems they did a background check on all the hotel employees
that would be involved in the function that day.
Uh, he had bounced one too many checks at a grocery store
in the northern Wisconsin town where he lived a year and a half ago.
Uh, the checks were all paid before he moved down here,
and he had no idea that any charges had been filed.
So, if, uh, you think there's any possibility that you've ever done anything wrong,
don't do anything involving presidential politics.
Now, uh, there's been some talk recently,
and we've talked about it here on this program,
about, uh, TRW's, um, offer of giving a free credit report to everybody who asks for one.
However, there's been some talk about, um, what they give out
and what it is that they get from you in return.
And, uh, some people seem to feel that, uh,
they're not giving out a full credit report,
they're giving out sketchy information,
but at the same time, getting more information from you
when you ask for your particular credit report.
Uh, now, this, uh, was reported also in the Risks Digest.
Mary Conin reported the lengthy list of items that TRW asks for
in order to receive the free credit report.
Uh, Peter Lashen reported that he found his credit report
satisfyingly sparse.
Uh, TRW is reported to be in the information sales business,
which would imply large and quite complete records.
How does one reconcile all of that?
Well, the Fair Credit Reporting Act requires
that a copy of the credit report be given to anyone upon request
or for a fee, uh, or upon denial of credit for no fee.
At the time the FCRA was passed, which was 1970,
uh, things were simple in the credit reporting
and information business, and, of course,
they're not simple today.
One must wonder what the definition of credit report
would be in today's world.
Uh, the TRWs of the world would argue
that it would be just that part of a data subject's record
that is pertinent to a credit decision.
Uh, it's unlikely that any data subject
gets the full content of the record
by requesting a credit report,
although it is tempting to believe the contrary.
That, uh, comes from Willis Ware,
also on, uh, the Internet Risks Digest,
and it's, uh, it's rather troubling to think
that, uh, when you ask for your files
and you get your files,
you're not really getting the whole picture.
The only people that are getting the whole picture
are the ones that run the computer systems.
And again, I have to ask the, uh, proverbial question,
where is the threat?
Is the threat from the hackers that will get in
and figure it all out,
or is the threat from people that, uh, feel the need
to keep all this information on everybody
without telling them what it is?
And finally, a story from, uh,
the Los Angeles Times, May 20th.
We've also discussed this in the past,
but it bears repeating.
Two days before President Bush took office,
a researcher discovered
that the new administration planned
to erase computer backup tapes
containing thousands of messages
sent by electronic mail, uh,
throughout the White House,
uh, with departing President Ronald Reagan
under his administration.
Uh, the report alarmed groups
representing historians and reporters
who for decades have been able
to go to the National Archives
and plow through the records
of past administrations.
They were able to, uh,
gain valuable insight
into how policies are formed
and carried out.
Uh, the groups knew
that some email tapes
already had been shown
to carry incriminating messages
between, uh, John Poindexter
and Oliver North
in the Iran-Contra scandal,
to name but one.
Uh, uh, fearing that, uh,
much more treasure
was about to vanish
in this new electronic age.
One group immediately filed suit
and won a temporary order
preserving many tapes.
Uh, that ignited
a far-reaching clash
between researchers
and the Bush administration
that is finally coming
to a head, uh,
in federal court.
At stake is not only
past tapes but present ones,
which are being regularly erased
before unknown numbers
of messages can be printed out
and saved for the National Archives.
Now, it's interesting
because, uh,
ordinarily, of course,
uh, you would say
that your electronic mail
is private
and you should, uh,
be able to do with it
what you wish.
However, in, uh,
in government issues,
when you're discussing policy
and things that will affect
the lives of millions,
billions of people,
uh, erasing these bits
of history
is a very dangerous thing
and it makes it very easy
to rewrite history.
Imagine if, uh,
those incriminating messages
were never uncovered
involving Oliver North
and Poindexter.
Uh, things could be
very different indeed.
It's important when
we're dealing with
issues of government
to have all these
little facts,
not just the finished product
of, uh,
how it all turns out
in the end,
the textbook version
of history,
but those little bits
of information
that show you
how history is being built,
how it's being made
and, uh,
and developed.
You know,
the not-so-pretty sites.
We need to see that as well.
And that's why
it's, uh, important
to keep on top
of this story
as well as all the other
things that are happening.
I urge people to, uh,
constantly read
their newspapers
and, uh,
uncover those stories
that have to do
with privacy invasions,
uh, with new technology
that, uh,
can be used in good ways
and can also be used
in bad ways.
And think about all of it.
Don't be intimidated
by people that say
you cannot think about this,
you cannot explore this,
uh, you cannot try
entering these commands
on this computer system
or this voicemail system.
The only way to learn
is by doing,
and, uh,
I hope there's a lot
of doing out there.
Uh, speaking of doing,
one more thing
before we get
to the phone calls,
and, uh, again,
that phone number
is 212-279-3400.
And that, uh,
announcement that we
want to make
is that there will be,
uh, hacker meetings
this Friday,
and I have to
go into the magic
paper bag here
to actually, uh,
list off the amount
of them,
because there is
an incredible amount.
Now, while a lot
of people will claim
proudly that the
hacker world is dying
and that the hackers
are being killed off
one by one
and locked away
in prisons
and intimidated
into not asking
questions and,
and moving away
to foreign countries
and things like that,
no, no,
it's not happening.
It's not quite
happening like that,
because if it were
happening like that,
we would not be
having meetings
all around the country
this Friday.
Uh, hackers in,
uh, New York,
Washington, D.C.,
San Francisco,
and Los Angeles,
uh, as well as,
uh, potential meetings
in, uh, places like
Chicago and St. Louis
are, uh, starting up
as well.
I'll tell you what
we, uh, we know so far.
Of course, the, uh,
the usual 2600 meeting
will be taking place
at the CityCorps Center.
Uh, that's, uh,
this Friday from 5 to 8 p.m.,
and that's, uh,
right smack in the
middle of CityCorps
in the, uh, lobby area
by the payphone,
where we all gather
trade information,
meet people,
things like that.
And, uh, we'll have
all kinds of, uh,
interesting tidbits
as we usually do.
Uh, in Washington, D.C.,
there are now meetings
at the same time,
first Friday of the month
from 5 to 8 p.m.,
and these meetings
are taking place
at the, get this,
Pentagon City Mall.
That's right.
We're going, uh,
straight to the heart
of the matter.
Pentagon City Mall,
5 to 8 p.m.
on, uh, the first
Friday of the month.
Uh, now, of course,
a mall is a rather
large place.
It's, um, it's going
to be kind of difficult
to find people there,
so if you're looking
for, uh, well,
it shouldn't be that
hard to find computer
hackers.
Look for people
with, uh, with, uh,
hacker t-shirts
and, uh, perhaps
buttons and magazines
and things like that.
Uh, people look
kind of, uh, mischievous.
Yeah.
A mischievous glint
in the eyes,
and there you go.
San Francisco, uh,
the usual meetings
take place at 4
Embarcadero Plaza,
uh, on the inside part,
right by the Mrs. Fields,
and that's, um,
from 5 to 8 p.m.
local time,
first Friday
of the month there.
And, uh, there is
a Los Angeles, uh,
trial meeting
this, uh, this Friday.
And by trial meeting,
well, we'll see how it
goes, and if, uh,
more than one person
shows up, maybe
there'll be another one.
A Los Angeles meeting
will be taking place
at the Union Station
corner of, uh,
Macy Street and Alameda.
And, um, it'll be
held inside the main
entrance by, where else?
The Bank of Payphones.
And, um, if you want
a full list of all
the payphone numbers,
they're all printed
in this, uh, current
issue of 2600,
that meeting again
taking place this
Friday, all meetings
Friday from 5 to 8 p.m.
What we hope to achieve
by this is, uh,
just to get people
to talk to each other.
There's, uh, nothing
worse than everybody,
uh, retreating into
their own little shells,
not sharing information,
and not really advancing
and learning things.
A lot of, uh,
interesting bits of
material have, uh,
come out of these
meetings, uh, and of
course, yes, uh, those
of you that are
concerned about such
things, there is
surveillance at these
meetings.
We are watched many
times, many times
we're able to find
the people that are
watching us, and for
some reason, they're
never happy to find
that we know that who
they are, even though
they know who we are
and we don't care.
So, uh, it tells you
something about, uh,
various attitudes there.
But, uh, it's a fun
time for everybody, as
the world of computer
hacking tends to be.
All right, 212-279-3400,
that's our telephone
number, and, uh, we
might as well start
taking some phone
calls if you have
any particular
questions on technology
or, uh, experiences
to relate, things like
that, we'll be happy
to hear from you.
Let's see who's out
there.
Good evening.
Hi, good evening.
Um, I've been doing
some experimenting with
the Star 69 and Star
5-7 you talked about
a few weeks ago.
Yeah, in fact, let me
refresh the memory of
people.
I'm glad you brought
that up.
Star 69 is a feature
that, uh, since we
mentioned that a couple
of weeks ago, we've been
doing some research into
that.
It works in many parts
of Long Island especially,
and, uh, it seems to
work outside of local
areas.
In other words, if
somebody from, say,
Montauk were to call
you in Nassau County,
uh, and you didn't pick
up the phone in time,
or even if you did pick
up the phone in time,
you could, uh, dial
Star 69 and it will
call back the last
person that called you.
And this is especially
troubling because, uh,
it's a form of caller
ID that, uh, is kind of
being, uh, snuck upon us
that we don't know
about.
Our number is being
transmitted in a form
and we don't, uh, have
a way of preventing
that.
What, uh, what point
did you wish to make?
Well, the interesting
thing is, well, I live
in Westchester County
and, um, I dialed, uh,
Star 69.
There was no, you
know, no, um, you
know, nothing great
about that.
There was just a tone
that said your call
can not be completed
as dial.
Then I did Star 57,
okay?
Now, I have two phones
in my house.
One is an AT&T and one
is one that I purchased.
It's sort of a
combination phone.
And a clock.
Now, whenever somebody
hangs up the AT&T phone
in my home, I hear
like a little peep on
my, you know, the
phone that I purchased.
Right, a little chirp.
That means the, uh, the
voltage of the line
has either dropped
or gone up.
Right.
Now, when I dialed, uh,
Star 57, you know,
I also got the, you
know, the tone that
said your call
cannot be completed
as dialed.
Now, when both phones
were hung up, uh, about,
I'd say about two
minutes later, I heard
that chirp on the phone
that I purchased.
Now, when I picked it up,
the phone was entirely
dead for about 10
seconds.
And then I got the
dial tone again.
So I found that kind of
strange.
I don't know why I did
that.
That's very interesting.
You know, you should try
the exact same thing again
and see if it happens
again.
Okay, I will when I
hang up.
Yeah, now, uh, the
other, the other code you
were dialing was, uh,
Star 57, right?
Uh, well, Star 57 was what
did that.
Right.
Star 57 is called
trace.
Now, that's what you're
supposed to hit if somebody
calls you and you wish to
notify the authorities that
you just received a
harassing call.
Uh, however, uh, since this
service has not been
announced, I imagine you
can experiment with it to
your heart's content.
And, uh, if it's your
phone calling your other
phone, I don't really
think, uh, you'll be able
to report yourself.
Play around with it.
See what happens.
Yeah, the interesting
thing, I wonder why they
would be saying that, um,
you know, the call can
not be completed as a
dial.
Obviously, something is
happening there that my
phone is chirping after I
do that.
Mm-hmm.
It's very disturbing,
though, that, uh, this
information is being sent
out without, uh, our
knowledge and without any
way to prevent it from
happening.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, because, uh,
technically, the way the
system works, you call
somebody and they can call
you back whether or not
you, uh, uh, you realize
that your number was being
transmitted.
It's, um, you know, it's
one of those things where
education pays off, and
unfortunately, there's not
enough of that right now.
That's true.
Well, just thought you'd
like to know about that.
Okay, well, keep
experimenting.
Yeah, take care.
And hopefully, uh,
everybody out there will,
uh, play around and see
what they can find out on
their telephones, because,
uh, telephones are
rapidly changing.
Before you know it, uh,
the way that we dial will
be completely alien today.
Good evening.
We're aliens today.
Go ahead.
Turn your radio down,
please.
Hi, uh, you had
spoken two weeks ago about
something called, uh,
DSO, and you had given a
four-digit number.
What is exactly this DSO?
Okay, DSO is a digital
switching office, and
basically, a digital
switching office can be,
in this area, one of two,
uh, type of animals.
One is, uh, DMS-100,
made by Northern Telecom.
The other is a number five
ESS, uh, which, uh, is
probably the better of the
two.
Uh, they're basically
electronic digital switching
systems as opposed to
mechanical switching systems.
Have you heard of something
called Kenmore DSO?
Uh, Kenmore, that's part of
Brooklyn, right?
Yeah, I'm in Brooklyn, and I
dial the number, and I get a
recording that says, uh, this
is Kenmore DSO serving several
exchanges.
Right.
That means that, uh, that's,
you've reached the Kenmore's
central office, and it's
listing the exchanges that are
local to your central office that
are served by that digital
switching machine.
Usually when they say DSO,
they mean a Northern Telecom,
uh, DMS-100, because, uh,
number five ESS's are, they're
usually proud to say five ESS.
Is there anything that can be
done with it?
Um, well, it's good to know
what your local exchanges are.
It's good to know what kind of
machine is serving you.
Uh, Northern Telecom DMS-100s
have, uh, uh, a notoriety for
all kinds of crosstalk.
Yeah, that's what I was,
that's what I heard.
Yeah, if you play around with
that, if you, if you dial
certain numbers and certain
sequences, you can get, uh,
patched into all kinds of
conversations, uh, again, I'd
like people to experiment with
that and see what they can
find out and send the results
in, because...
Yeah, I had tried a couple of
different things and it just
goes dead, but, uh, I'll
fiddle around.
Any idea of how many
combinations?
The two-digit, three-digit,
four-digit, any idea to start
with?
Unfortunately, I haven't been
in an area that, uh, allows
me to experiment, otherwise I
certainly would have an answer,
but I do know that if you play
around with stars and pound
signs and things like that,
uh, you'll get all kinds of,
uh, of strange, uh, results.
I'll try it and let you
know what happens.
Okay.
Thanks a lot.
Bye-bye.
Anybody else that has a DMS-100
serving them, uh, that would,
uh, certainly, uh, be helpful.
I'll demonstrate, if I can, the
difference between a, uh, 5ESS
and a digital switching system.
It's just going to involve a
little bit of setup here, but
I'm sure we can, uh, manage
that.
Okay, we have to get that, uh,
particular line open, and we
have it open.
Now we're going to get our
friend the dial tone.
All right.
Now we're going to dial a
number that, uh, does not
exist, and that number does
not exist in, let's see,
this number does not exist in
a 5ESS or a DMS-100.
Good question.
Um, I believe this is a DMS-100.
And let's see what happens when
we, uh, connect to that.
Actually, nothing seems to be
happening.
Okay, we got a, uh, we got a
special little tone there,
apparently.
Uh, I accidentally called a
test number.
How do you like that?
All right, let's call a number
that does not exist in, uh, a
DMS.
I think this is probably the
easiest way to demonstrate
this.
And if you can, uh, translate
those numbers, then you'll
have a number to a DMS.
The number you have reached.
Okay.
What that is, uh, that was an
intercept recording.
Actually, you know what they've
done?
They've, they've gone and
changed it, so it doesn't
always work, unfortunately.
And that's, that's the nature
of these things.
You have to stay on top of
them.
Uh, a DMS-100 will do it one
of two ways.
They will either play you
those, uh, those three tones
on the error message, or
they'll play them preceded by
a ring.
That's right, you'll get a
ring, and then you'll get
the error message.
That never happens on a 5
ESS.
Never happens.
You always get, uh, well,
you get what we heard just
now, except that wasn't a
5 ESS, that was a DMS-100.
Uh, there are other more
subtle differences.
DMS-100s tend to be a little
bit quieter, I find.
Some people will debate me
on that.
Uh, there are differences
that you just have to play
around with.
But once you find them, and
you can find them by
calling in New York, uh, an
exchange followed by
9901.
And, uh, most numbers will
work.
Most numbers will tell you
what kind of machine it is
that's serving the area.
And then you can, uh, play
around with rings, busy
signals.
Busy signals can be found
at the 9970 extension, and
rings can be found just
about anywhere.
So, uh, let us know what
you find out about that.
Our number is 212-279-3400.
The program is off the
hook.
This is Emmanuel Goldstein
with you until 10 o'clock.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Oh, yes.
Uh, there's something that's
very interesting about the
frequency that WBAI is
located on, 99.5.
Uh-huh.
When I listen to it, um, I
can usually hear some very
weak interfering, uh, interfering
station in the background.
And I've often wondered about
that because I thought, well,
you know, there, there's,
there, uh, there couldn't be
any, any, uh, any other
commercial FM, uh, FM station
or within maybe two or three
hundred miles around.
Well, actually, where are you
located?
What area?
In, in, on, uh, on Long
Island.
How far out?
Uh, around Hempstead.
And do you get this mostly
when you're driving around?
No, no, this, this is, this is,
um, I'm in, I'm in, I'm in
my apartment.
Uh-huh.
I know there is a commercial
station at 99.5 in Delaware.
And I don't know, they must be
10 million watts or something
because they do interfere with
us on Long Island a lot.
Uh, I'm not quite sure why
that is.
Our engineers are working on
figuring that out.
Yeah.
But there, there's another
possible explanation to that
that I thought of the other
day.
And if you take 99.5 and
divide it by two, you'll get
49.75.
And what's on that frequency?
Now, 49.75 is, is the band
where there are a lot of
different, different things like
remote, some remote control
devices and, and, uh, and,
and these wireless, uh,
wireless handheld telephones.
So you think it might be a
harmonic of some sort?
Oh, it sounds to me as though
it could very well be the
second harmonic from, I, I, I,
I would suspect the wireless
telephones because there are a
lot of people in this building
that have them.
So in addition to what we
reveal on this program, people
can actually hear wireless
phone conversations on BAI.
But you can't make out the
conversation because it's, it's,
it's the, it's the nature of
FM modulation.
A WBAI is always much
stronger.
And, and, and, and those
things I think are AM and, and,
uh, it's going to be very, uh,
very difficult to pick it up.
But, but it's an interesting
thought.
And if anybody had a radio
receiver, uh, well, not a
communications receiver, but,
but some, some type of
receiver that, that, that, uh,
that can tune through that
band, it'll be nice to listen
and see if, if, if, if they got
the same problem and then,
then they could switch over
to the receiver tuned to 49
megahertz and see if there's a
strong signal coming in there
at the same time.
Uh-huh.
Do you listen to a lot of
radio in New York?
A lot of radio?
Yeah.
Oh yeah, so, uh, oh.
Have you caught any, any
interesting, uh, pirate radio
stations?
Because I was looking around
for some of those the other
day.
Um, well, well, okay, when
you, when you say listen,
listen to radio, I, I listen
to a few stations.
Uh-huh.
Uh, I'm not, I'm not a ham
or anything like that.
Right.
But if you explore the FM
dial a little bit, you will
find some pirates, especially
towards the lower end.
And, uh, some of them are
quite interesting.
Oh, okay, I, I, I might, I
might try that.
They, you see, around, around
here there are a lot of
educational, uh, stations.
For example, Hoster, Hoster
University has one down at the
end of the, uh, yeah, but
they're not, they're not
pirates.
There are a couple of
others.
I, I picked up a couple of
stations from, from, from,
uh, from some of the
schools in, uh, in Manhattan.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, there are lots of, uh,
non-commercial stations, but
there are also, uh, some
non-licensed stations.
And, of course, while that
is, uh, technically breaking
the law, sometimes you do get
the most interesting programs
through that.
And it's also, um, interesting
to see people doing it their
way.
You know, having a radio
station that runs off of a
Walkman and it's just, uh,
playing whatever it is they
want to play.
As long as it doesn't, uh, uh,
interfere with other radio
stations, um, one has to
debate whether or not there
really is any harm in this.
Uh, but I would like to know
more about it.
Let's see, uh, if possibly we
can get some, uh, pirate
people to, uh, call us.
Yeah.
And, uh, and, and tell us
what it's like to broadcast,
uh, over the airwaves.
Because there's a whole world
of activity out there that a
lot of us aren't aware of.
Uh, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't
encourage anybody to do that
because when I was living on
the West Coast, uh, I remember
the, the, uh, the FCC really
threw the book at some, at
somebody that had a pirate
station that was operated, uh,
uh, uh, not, uh, not too far
from, from, from LAX, the
airport there, and they
tracked them down and, and
they, they, uh, they gave
them a pretty, pretty stiff
fine.
Yeah, they will do that.
And that's something that,
uh, is, is important to tell
people that, uh, the FCC does
not take these things lightly.
Uh, but as a social kind of a
thing, it's, it's interesting
to study to see what kind of
people are out there, uh, what
kind of, uh, programming they
put on and why they feel the
need to do this in the first
place.
Is, uh, FM radio or AM radio
not serving their needs?
You know, what is it?
Is it all a big ego trip or
is there something that
they're, uh, they're actually
doing differently?
So that's something we're
going to be exploring here.
Yeah.
Actually, actually one more
thing on that 49 megahertz
band.
If you keep your power down
below, below a tenth of a
watt, uh, uh, you, uh, you
don't need a license to
operate in that band.
That's correct.
And, and they, they, they
used to have that in the
citizens band.
Of course, the citizens band is,
is, is a, is a complete mess
now.
Right.
Anarchy.
But, but in the 49 megahertz
band, it'd be very
interesting, you know, to get
some, a good antenna and a
sensitive receiver there and
see what you can hear.
Uh-huh.
And you, you know, with a,
with a low power
transmitter, you'd be surprised
how far you can communicate
with people.
That is true.
That is true.
So, uh, many, many miles
sometimes under good
conditions.
Okay.
I just thought I'd pass that
on.
Okay.
Thanks for calling.
Right.
Bye.
And, uh, some people actually
have been sending us tapes of
cellular phone calls.
Yes, that's true.
Uh, they are out there.
Uh, it's, uh, illegal to
listen.
Of course, it's illegal to tape,
but, uh, some people have
been sending us tapes anyway
and, uh, we're studying these
as kind of a profile of
American life, uh, to see
what kind of people are on
cellular phones.
It's extremely simple to do
and you can make as many laws
as you want saying that it's
illegal to listen, but, uh,
come on, let's face it.
Until there is some
encryption put into, uh,
into the actual, uh,
frequencies, into the,
into the radios that are
transmitting these conversations,
there is not going to be any
protection, and we might as
well just show everybody
how easy it is.
Uh, so, uh, again, the
address here is WBAI 505
8th Avenue, New York, New
York, 10018, and we believe
in educating people and not
abusing technology in a way
that hurts people, and,
uh, unfortunately, not
everybody feels that way,
especially a lot of people
that are in power, but
enough of that.
279-3400, area code 212.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Hi.
Uh, here's a computer problem.
Is it possible to confirm
presidential election
results?
There is every possibility
that rigged election
polls are being used to
back rigged election
results.
Well, uh, I don't know
what that has to do really
with, uh, with computers.
Oh, a lot.
Uh, remember, Perot is the
inside Republican government
hacker.
Uh-huh.
You know, and the way
they're using the polls
right now, uh, it seems to
indicate that Perot is taking
all of the votes away from
the Democratic candidate
instead of logically taking
it away from the
Republican candidate,
because he's Republican.
Well, it's interesting.
I've heard it from both sides.
I've heard people say that,
uh, he's going to take
votes away from Republicans,
he's going to take votes
away from Democrats.
Um, as far, I think what
you're asking is, is there
a way to prevent any kind
of fraud using, uh,
computerized elections?
Is that what you're asking?
We're now in the high-tech age
and, uh, George Bush and the
CIA have been holding on to
the national security state's
computer system, right?
And all of the stuff that's
going on is, uh, really
strange, you know, with only
one percent of the nation
holding on to all the power
structure while all around us,
everywhere, nationwide, we're
seeing the results of this.
And yet, uh, interestingly
enough, uh, none of the
election polls seem to make
sense, period.
Well, there's nothing new
there.
Uh, the only difference
being that, uh, computers
are being used more and more,
uh, to perpetrate this.
As far as, uh, how to tell
when it's happening, you know,
it's, your guess is as good
as mine right now until we
start figuring out how the
systems work.
Yeah, right.
And that's something, uh,
that you best leave to, to
people that can infiltrate
these systems and learn what
they're, what they're
actually doing.
I don't know if you have to,
you see, that's the problem.
Uh, if they are rigging
them, they're breaking the
laws, right?
Of course.
And, uh, there should be
some way to have some sort
of, uh, uh, well, you know,
the, the whole idea that we
have is Big Brother's always
watching us, but we watch
Big Brother.
Exactly.
Right?
And so that part of the
process doesn't seem, it's
still in its infancy.
Well, again, that comes with
lack of understanding of it.
If we knew exactly what was
being done and how it was
working, what computers were
being used and where they're
located and whether or not
they can be inspected and how
they can be inspected, we'd
have a much better sense of
whether or not there was any
fraud.
But right now we, we haven't
a clue.
Well, we've got a couple of
months.
We do.
All right, man.
Okay.
Thanks for calling.
Thank you.
Bye.
And that's a very, uh, important
thing to think of for the future
because, uh, the day will come
when you vote from your house on
your personal computer or on your
touchtone phone.
And, uh, it's important to know
that your vote actually does
count and that your vote is not
being counted against you in any
way and that it's remaining
anonymous.
Eventually the day will come when
people will say, why should it
remain anonymous?
What have you got to hide?
That seems to be the, uh, the
saying of the latter part of the
20th century.
What have you got to hide?
If you're not hiding anything,
you've got nothing to be afraid
of.
Well, we've got to, uh, show
people that that's not
necessarily true, that people are
entitled to their privacy and
that, uh, we can hide whatever we
damn well feel like hiding.
Okay.
It's, uh, 16 minutes to 10 o'clock.
The program is off the hook.
Got a ton of phone calls here.
212-279-3400 is our phone
number.
Good evening.
You're on.
Oh, hi.
Uh, I enjoy your program very
much, and you've mentioned the
magazine 2600.
I'd like to get a copy of the
magazine or be a subscriber.
Um, how is it possible for me to
do so?
I'll give you the phone number
and I'll give you the address.
Uh, the phone number is area
code 516-751-2600, and the
address is 2600 P.O.
Box 752.
2600 752.
P.O.
Box 752, Middle Island, New
York 11953.
And you know, it's interesting.
I give the, uh, mailing address
out, and I'd like to know if any
other people know something about
this.
We've been getting some really
weird pieces of mail because,
uh, a couple of issues ago we
ran an article on postal hacking.
Uh, it's, uh, figuring out the
barcodes on your envelopes and, uh,
and playing around with stamps and
things like that.
Nothing, uh, nothing to cheat the
post office, just to understand what
they're doing.
Since then, we've gotten a few
letters from different people with
two-cent stamps on them, saying
it's possible to mail letters for
two cents.
And one person has offered to
sell us this, uh, this knowledge,
uh, but I'd like to know if
there's people out there that are
willing to share this knowledge
as to how this is possible, if
this is possible, if it's just,
uh, another scam.
Uh, literally these letters come
to us with just a two-cent stamp
on them and nothing else.
And inside, the person says, I
mailed you a letter with just a
two-cent stamp on it, see?
And they, they seem to know that
it's going to go through.
Is it upside-down the stamp?
No, it's not upside-down.
It's a regular two-cent stamp.
Oh, by the way, what is the
zip code?
Middle Island?
Uh, 1-1-9-5-3.
1-1-9-5-3.
Okay, thank you, Emmanuel.
Okay, thanks for calling.
Bye.
There's all kinds of things, um,
in the post office that, uh,
people should know about.
Postal mail is going to turn
into electronic mail.
It is conceivable it's getting
closer every day.
A piece of mail going through
postal machinery, uh, can be,
uh, categoried and sorted in
various ways and treated just like
a piece of computerized mail.
And the technology will exist
if it does not exist already,
uh, for authorities to look
at your address and say,
where did this person get mail
from?
Because it all goes through
machines.
So, uh, it's important that we
know what it is they're doing
and we know what, uh, freedoms
we wish to preserve and that we
fight to preserve them.
Ooh, that's a horrible line.
Uh, who's there?
Good evening.
Good evening.
Hi, uh, this is James.
Hi, James.
You're going to have to make it
quick because you've got a
terrible line, unfortunately.
Sorry, yeah, listen, uh,
something weird happened to me
and it's too, it's, it's with a
Right?
Uh-huh.
Because, uh, I was doing too
much BBS calling.
All of a sudden, after four
months of non-service, my phone
rings.
Okay.
Now, they've been doing some
renovation in these buildings on
my block here and I'm getting
outgoing service and I, you know,
I haven't had a phone service
for four months.
Do you ever hear of anything?
Well, okay, let me ask you a
question.
First of all, uh, you say your
phone was turned off because,
uh, excess of BBS, you mean you
didn't pay your bill, basically.
Exactly.
I was foolish and I got caught up
in the, uh, the wonder of it,
you know.
Okay.
What, uh, what state are you in?
Uh, New York State.
Okay.
What you want to do first of all
is dial 958, see if that is your
phone number.
And if it's not your phone number,
then what's probably happened is
somebody in a neighboring building
or apartment has gotten a phone
and somehow the cable pair has
come into your apartment as
well.
I've seen that happen a hundred
times.
Really?
Yeah, it does happen.
And occasionally, you know, if
you ring that number, what was
the, was the call for you or was
it a wrong number?
No, no.
It was, apparently it was for
somebody who, I guess the actual
phone number is set up for.
Uh-huh.
Like a business here.
Yeah.
But I mean, now I'm back on BBS
and I'm doing local calls, but,
so you've heard of this before,
huh?
Uh, it, it can happen, but, uh,
you should check it out and see
if it really is your phone line
or if somebody else's phone line
has come into your house.
Uh, it's debatable, you know,
if a phone line comes into your
house, uh, do you have the
right to use it or don't you?
I don't know.
I'm not going to give you an
answer on that.
I know.
Oh, and let me add one quick
thing about postal hacking.
Yeah.
Uh, I set myself up with a, I
mean, this is silly, but like,
uh, a pseudo business, you
know, as I put my name and a
business, you'd be, you should
see all the, I get invitations
to seminars, I get free software.
Uh-huh.
So, you're right, there's a lot of,
uh, cool stuff to be done.
Oh, when, when you get your
name on a mailing list, forget
it, uh, you, you, you can't
stop it.
You, you get bundles of mail
every day.
You get free visa card offers
and, uh, all kinds of things.
Uh, we have all kinds of, of,
of misspellings of names that
we see come into the office
where it says, well, because
you're such a, a valued person
and, and such a high-ranking
part of your community, this is
a person that doesn't
technically exist because the
name is completely spelled
wrong.
Uh, so.
It's fascinating.
I mean, I've got, like, I've
got free invitations to PC
Expo and, uh-huh.
Everything.
Well, it goes to show you how
much, uh, value those, those
things really contain if they,
uh, invite people that don't
exist and businesses that
don't exist to take part in.
You're right.
One last thing.
Who sings that song you have
in the beginning?
I love that.
Oh, that's, uh, that's sung by
a guy named Don Letts who
used to be part of a group
called Big Audio Dynamite.
He's now part of a group
called Screaming Target.
In fact, anybody out there
part of a record company, uh,
he's really getting messed
around by, uh, particular
record companies and, uh,
he's looking to release a, uh,
a very good record in this
country and if anybody has,
uh, a means of, uh, of getting
a listen to a real record
company to listen to his
particular music, uh, please
write me here at the radio
station at WBAI.
Oh, that's great.
Listen, keep up the good
work, Emmanuel.
Okay.
Thanks for calling.
I love it.
All right.
And our address here at WBAI
is 505 8th Avenue, New York,
New York, 10018.
And, uh, boy, we've got a
ton of calls, so let's see
how many more we can get
in.
Good evening.
You're on.
That's me, but I want to
hear you.
Good evening.
Anybody there?
Okay, well, we can't have
that.
Good evening.
Hey, how you doing,
Emmanuel?
Okay, how are you?
I got a question.
You brought up some things
about, uh, electronic
postal mail.
Uh-huh.
Uh, I had just read an
interesting article on ISDN.
Uh, they had, Hazen's just
come out with a product, uh,
ISDN product for, uh, the
next computer that you can
hook right up to the DSP
board, uh, digital signal,
DSP as in digital signal
processing board.
And, uh, I just, you know,
I'm just, uh, trying to
generate some conversation
on ISDN.
Could you tell the listeners
a little bit more about
ISDN?
Well, ISDN is, uh, really
in its infancy, but basically
it's a tying together of, uh,
of all kinds of, of
technology, your phone,
your computer, uh, anything
you can possibly imagine.
Uh, this is ultimately what
it will evolve in.
Now, as with anything,
there are, there are
advantages to it, but there
are also incredible, uh,
potential privacy risks.
Okay.
You know, where, uh, uh,
your every movement is
known, your every, uh,
button that you push on a
particular machine is, is
known.
They, they say this ISDN
is, is pretty fast, too,
and, uh...
Sure, it's, it's the
equivalent of having, uh,
let's, let's say you work
in an institution, okay?
You, you work in a, a
university or a business
of some sort, and all the
phones are tied together.
Imagine every phone in the
country tied together like
that, where you could
instantly recall somebody,
uh, you dial a number and
it rings immediately.
Okay.
Uh, you know, that kind of
thing, where...
One other thing...
You call somebody who's
busy and you get a locally
generated busy signal
instead of one from far
away and the trunk is not
used up.
That kind of thing.
Okay, they, they have the
ISDN, but I don't want to
leave out this important
fact, because they also
have the internet protocol,
uh, running over the ISDN,
which I thought was pretty
interesting, too.
Okay, Emmanuel.
Okay, well, thanks for
calling.
Bye.
All right, let's see who
else is here.
Good evening.
Hi, good evening, uh,
Emmanuel.
Just a few things in
regards to some of the
stuff you mentioned.
You talked about milk,
you talked about return
addresses on envelopes,
and, uh, very disturbing
point, which has gone
through the courts, is
that the law enforcement
agencies do not need a
warrant to get the return
addresses off your
envelopes.
To open the mail, they
do, but not for the
return addresses.
Yeah, the logic behind
that is that it's, uh,
you know, a piece of
paper that's being passed
through the mail, and,
uh, anybody can see it
anyway, including your
postman, any postal clerk,
you know, that, that kind
of thing.
Now, how about this?
Does it extend to a
postcard, and the
contents written on a
postcard?
I don't, don't know,
but certainly something
worth finding out.
Uh, the other thing is,
you mentioned people are
sending you two-cent
stamp letters.
Now, bear in mind, by
definition, you're not,
they may have sent a
hundred letters, and you're
only going to see two of
them.
That's correct, and I
thought of that.
Not an idea that didn't
make it.
I thought of that for the
person that was offering to
sell the information.
I said that was, uh,
probably what this person
did, but what about the
people that aren't offering
to sell that information?
They're just sending
letters with a two-cent
stamp on it, and it is
getting through.
I don't think they sent a
hundred copies of that.
Well, it's worth trying
and checking out.
Anyway, just finally, uh,
the person was talking
about the interference he
was getting on WBAI, 99.5.
It's very doubtful he's
getting a cordless phone
harmonic there, because
cordless phones are narrow
FM, which is 10 kilohertz
wide.
WBAI, of course, is wide, uh,
FM of, I don't know, 200
kilohertz or so, something
like that.
Something like that.
But there are a lot of
other 99.5 FM stations in
the area.
Uh...
A lot of others?
Well, but by definition,
there's one up in Albany,
and Poughkeepsie is kind of
the mid-range point there,
and that's where you start
hearing them.
It's a pretty good station.
Not as good as BAI.
It's an oldies radio station.
Uh-huh.
If you're ever up there,
you might want to tune it in.
Okay, I'll keep it in mind.
But I know there's one in
Delaware that does step on
us quite a bit.
Yeah, but under the FCC regs,
you're only clear channel for
something like 40 or so
miles outside your primary
zone.
Uh-huh.
And if we could be clear for
those 40 miles, I think
we'd be happy, but we do get
a lot of interference there as
well.
All right, take care.
All right, thanks for calling.
And there is, of course, a
project underway at the
Empire State Building to
raise the transmitter that
many New York City FM
stations share, and hopefully
within our lifetime, that
will actually come to
fruition, so we'll keep
people posted on that.
All right, let's scramble
and get some more calls.
Good evening.
Yes, that's what it is.
Good evening.
Hi.
How are you doing?
Okay, let's see.
I have three quick little
things, and then one thing
that I think is very
important.
The first thing is, you
said a long time ago that
you have a really cheap
calling card.
A really cheap calling
card.
Well, it's either cheap or
they don't charge it at 75
cents a call.
Right.
There's actually two
companies that offer a
service like that, one only
locally, and that's cable and
wireless, and the other is a
company called Metromedia,
formerly known as ITT, that
offers a nationwide calling
card with no surcharge.
Okay, now, how do I
contact them?
I would call 800
information and ask for the
number for either cable and
wireless or Metromedia long
distance.
Okay.
Now, of course, it's absurd,
and I don't understand why this
is, that all the major
companies, AT&T, Sprint, MCI,
they offer you a calling card,
and then every time you use a
calling card, you have to pay a
surcharge.
Now, a surcharge is the
equivalent of a penalty.
Why do you have to pay a
penalty for using the card for
the only thing you can use it
for in the first place?
It doesn't make sense.
But I didn't realize, which
was even worse, was that when
you hit the number sign to make
another call, you get charged
at 75 cents again, so you're
not recalling the access number.
Right, you're saving time, but
you're being charged the same.
It doesn't make any sense at
all.
And as long as people don't
question it, it's going to keep
going on.
Just like, this is the biggest
abuse known to phone freaks in
the country.
If you make a local phone call
off a payphone, and I don't
mean the cocots, I mean a
regular bell payphone.
And this works all throughout
the country.
Let's say you make a local
call from one payphone to the
one right next to it.
Okay, it's going to ask you
for 25 cents, which you put in
before you start dialing the
number.
And then after five minutes,
it's going to ask you for
another nickel.
But if you put in a quarter,
it's only going to treat it as
a nickel.
And then in another minute,
it's going to ask you for
another nickel.
It's terrible.
It's terrible.
It's been going on for years,
and you just cannot convince me
that the phone company cannot
tell the difference between a
quarter and a nickel.
They're getting away with
highway robbery there.
Okay, the second thing is, I
don't know if you're aware of
this, but it seems like New
York Telephone is testing the
Star 69.
Yes, they are.
That's pretty neat.
It's neat.
It's fun if you know what
you're doing, and if you know
that it exists.
If you don't, though, it's
possible to really be taken in
by it.
Well, I actually, I have to
say that I did feel a little
bit of power today when I
dialed it and knew I had hung
up on my answering machine.
Uh-huh.
I thought that was good.
And they must have been
surprised.
Yes, they were certainly very
surprised.
But now I think about 20 of my
friends know about it, and
everyone's playing around with
it.
Yeah, well, hopefully the word
will get spread.
I know it's been spread quite a
bit since we talked about it a
couple of weeks ago.
Okay.
Let me ask you something.
Do you support a mandatory
implementation of caller ID?
Of course not.
Um, I think just like an
unlisted number, the way I see
it, if somebody has an
unlisted number, it should
automatically be, um, not
there.
I mean, the default should be
no.
Um, if they had a listed
number, um, I think that it
really shouldn't be so bad.
Now, there's some people who
don't have their address in the
phone book.
Right.
I think that those people also
should have the right, um, I
don't think it should cost
anything to have it on or off.
You know, the software is there
to make it possible for you,
yourself, to maybe, uh, key in
something like the way you turn
call waiting on and off.
That's true.
But why should it be on the
person that wants to keep
private to have to dial something
each and every time to make a
call?
Well, they shouldn't, they shouldn't
have to.
It should be on, uh, if they
didn't have an unlisted number.
Okay, listen, we are out of
time.
I want to thank you for your
call, though.
There was one last thing that I
thought was very important.
Okay, and in three seconds,
hurry up.
Okay, S218.
You got to write to Senator
Stevens, um, Washington, D.C.
Ted Stevens, Washington, D.C.,
20510, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's
for competitive bidding for
radio frequencies.
Very bad amendment.
You have until June 12th to write
to them.
Okay, maybe we can talk about
that next week because we'll
have a couple of days
beforehand.
Thanks for calling.
Thanks to everybody else that
called in.
And also, let me just leave you
with one final thought for those
of you playing around with the
dilemmas of caller ID.
Uh, think of the alternative.
Think of, think of a parallel
here.
If you mail something through the
post office, uh, are you
required to put a return
address on your envelopes?
No, at least not yet.
Something to think about.
If you can be anonymous in the
mail, you should be anonymous
on the telephone.
We'll see you next week.
I cut myself while shaving.
Now I can't make a cough.
It couldn't get much worse.
But if they could, they would.
Bum, diddly, bum, for the best
expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bum, diddly, bum!
And then it's, by the way.