Off The Hook - 1992-06-24

[00:02.340 --> 00:09.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: ...that as the smoke detectors are incinerated, that they will be released directly into the environment.
[00:10.040 --> 00:16.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, there's another problem that has surfaced within the last few years, and that is the presence of radon gas.
[00:16.580 --> 00:21.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: It turns out that in the Northeast, there are many underground deposits of uranium ore.
[00:22.180 --> 00:27.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uranium ore that is perhaps too poor to be mined commercially, but nonetheless, radium ore.
[00:27.820 --> 00:38.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: It turns out that several hundred years ago, uranium miners or pitchblend miners in the area of Bohemia used to come down with something called mountain sickness.
[00:39.360 --> 00:47.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: Scientists hundreds of years ago did not know what mountain sickness was, but it was definitely linked to workers who worked underground in pitchblend mines.
[00:47.920 --> 00:54.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, pitchblend mines are now called uranium mines, and mountain sickness is now called lung cancer.
[00:54.180 --> 01:00.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: And what caused lung cancer was radon gas, which seeps out of uranium deposits.
[01:00.560 --> 01:02.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's an inert gas.
[01:02.160 --> 01:09.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: That is, even a gas mask with activated charcoal will not be able to screen out radioactive radon gas.
[01:09.580 --> 01:14.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: The problem is that radioactive radon gas will seep right into the basement of your home.
[01:14.440 --> 01:18.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: It will go right through microscopic cracks that you can't even see.
[01:18.440 --> 01:24.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: And again, activated charcoal will do nothing to stop radon gas because it's an inert gas.
[01:24.920 --> 01:28.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: That is, it does not react chemically with any known substance.
[01:28.940 --> 01:38.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: As a consequence, what I highly advise you to do is to get a professional to, first of all, see whether or not there is radioactive radon gas in your home.
[01:38.380 --> 01:49.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: And second of all, if there is, get a fan, a fan to blow out that radiation because of the fact that your children may play for many hours in the basement, and that is very dangerous.
[01:50.040 --> 02:03.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: We first found out about the grave dangers of radon gas when an atomic worker at a nuclear power plant went right through some of the radiation detectors and, of course, set off all the alarms.
[02:03.120 --> 02:13.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: At first, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission thought that this worker was indeed carrying fission products left over from the breakdown of uranium inside a nuclear power plant.
[02:14.020 --> 02:19.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: However, when they found no fission products in his body, they suspected radon gas.
[02:19.420 --> 02:24.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: And sure enough, in the basement of his home, large quantities of radon gas were, in fact, found.
[02:25.680 --> 02:30.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: And as a consequence, the Environmental Protection Agency has basically issued an alert.
[02:30.760 --> 02:46.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: That is, there may now be literally millions of homes, especially in the Northeast, that lie atop uranium ore deposits, releasing large quantities of radon gas, especially into the basement, even when there's no visible crack.
[02:46.400 --> 02:48.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I would highly advise you to think twice.
[02:48.680 --> 03:00.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you have a basement in a suburban home, and you can listen to this broadcast, be serious about this, especially if your children play in the basement of your home, because children, of course, have cells that are constantly growing.
[03:01.020 --> 03:09.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because they are constantly growing, they are directly vulnerable to radiation, which in turn can induce genetic damage, if not cancer.
[03:09.840 --> 03:12.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I would advise you to get a professional to check out your home.
[03:13.020 --> 03:21.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: And if you find you have radon gas, then, of course, the option there is to vent that radon gas directly into the environment by getting a fan.
[03:23.960 --> 03:30.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, we're slowly running out of time, but let me profile one more thing, and that is nuclear medicine in the hospital.
[03:30.820 --> 03:43.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: It turns out that a lot of the nuclear waste being generated from the hospital is due to the fact that doctors inject radioactive tracers into the body in order to trace the migration of certain chemicals.
[03:43.880 --> 03:46.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, again, I would use the same rule of thumb.
[03:47.140 --> 03:49.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: Sometimes this is life-threatening.
[03:49.240 --> 03:53.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: That is, you have a situation where it's suspected that a person has a brain tumor.
[03:53.940 --> 03:59.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: And one way in which to detect a brain tumor is to inject radioactive chemicals directly into the body.
[04:00.020 --> 04:04.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: And some of these chemicals will indeed concentrate in brain tumors.
[04:04.760 --> 04:07.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: And then it's very easy to get a brain scan.
[04:07.280 --> 04:14.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: And a brain scan will immediately pick up a clump of radioactive materials, which we then suspect is a brain tumor.
[04:14.440 --> 04:20.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: However, in general, I would try to limit the amount of radioactive materials injected into your body.
[04:20.500 --> 04:27.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: First of all, MRI scans, even though they're very expensive, are much more effective than brain scans.
[04:28.120 --> 04:32.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: In fact, you can even get a picture of the brain tumor directly from an MRI scan.
[04:32.400 --> 04:43.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: And at present, physicists do not believe that MRI scans are dangerous, while radioactive chemicals have been directly linked to all sorts of different kinds of illnesses over the last several decades.
[04:43.760 --> 04:52.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: So once again, the rule of thumb is, if it's life-threatening, then by all means, seriously give the consideration to have radioactive materials injected in the body.
[04:52.760 --> 05:08.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: However, if there are alternatives, for example, MRI scans instead of radioactive brain scans, or if it's mainly for cosmetic reasons, or reasons that are not life-threatening, then once again, think twice before having large amounts of radioactive materials injected in the body.
[05:08.380 --> 05:12.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, unfortunately, that's it for exploration.
[05:12.740 --> 05:29.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is Dr. Michio Kaku, Professor of Theoretical Physics at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, inviting you to join us next week when we talk about the recent, rather spectacular discovery of our satellites, which show the remnants of the Big Bang,
[05:29.800 --> 05:31.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: that is, the creation of the universe itself.
[05:32.300 --> 05:39.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: Next week, we'll be talking about the creation of the universe, as well as the possibility of intelligent life in the heavens.
[05:39.440 --> 05:44.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is Dr. Michio Kaku for Radio WBAI and Exploration.
[05:44.620 --> 05:45.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good evening.
[05:50.170 --> 05:58.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: And at 9.01, this is WBAI New York, where next in store is Emmanuel Goldstein's Off the Hook, First a Message.
[06:09.350 --> 06:15.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: On Sunday, June the 28th, Mayor Sharp James of Newark will be our guest on Emanations.
[06:15.610 --> 06:20.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: He will be discussing the upcoming Democratic Convention and other important issues.
[06:21.530 --> 06:24.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's Sunday, June 28th, at 9 p.m.
[06:25.030 --> 06:28.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: on Emanations, with The Collective, 99.5 FM.
[06:38.840 --> 06:41.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: And this is WBAI New York.
[06:41.200 --> 06:42.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's time now for Off the Hook.
[06:48.920 --> 07:10.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a cough It couldn't get much worse A middly-bum for the best, expect the worst I hope that's understood A middly-bum
[07:57.200 --> 07:59.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: And a very good evening to one and all.
[07:59.120 --> 08:00.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: The program is Off the Hook.
[08:00.220 --> 08:13.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein, and we're here every Wednesday night at about this time, 9 o'clock until 10 o'clock talking about high technology and low intelligence and various other fun things like that.
[08:14.440 --> 08:19.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: We've been talking about the future rate increase of New York Telephone over the past few weeks.
[08:19.180 --> 08:21.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: We've been talking about Star 6-9.
[08:21.220 --> 08:26.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: We have more details on that and more signs of things to come.
[08:26.520 --> 08:27.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Stay with us.
[08:27.260 --> 08:30.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: We'll be taking your phone calls, too, at 212-279-3400.
[08:31.180 --> 08:38.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: And next week, we have a very special program which we'll detail in the minutes ahead and let you know what you have to look forward to.
[08:39.300 --> 08:42.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: First, some interesting news from around the world.
[08:42.900 --> 08:52.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: This, off the Associated Press, an intruder erased information on about 17,000 supporters of Ross Perot.
[08:52.620 --> 08:55.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: Actually, that's kind of unclear the way that's phrased.
[08:55.180 --> 08:56.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: He erased information on a computer.
[08:57.120 --> 08:59.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: The information was about 17,000 supporters.
[09:00.260 --> 09:01.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Basically, a database.
[09:02.750 --> 09:13.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: They, according to his Virginia headquarters, the non-presidential candidate's Virginia headquarters, they have copies of the files destroyed in the weekend incident.
[09:14.300 --> 09:20.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: The data included the names, addresses, telephone numbers, and notes on about 17,000 Perot supporters in Virginia.
[09:21.360 --> 09:27.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: According to Mark Adams, state petition coordinator for Virginians for Perot, it's not a political act as far as I'm concerned.
[09:27.960 --> 09:30.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't feel threatened by anything of that nature.
[09:31.420 --> 09:34.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, that's a rather interesting development.
[09:34.680 --> 09:47.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, according to some commentary that has been appearing on the Internet about this, there were actually several reassuring things about the Perot incident, writes Steve Bellavin in the Risks Digest.
[09:47.500 --> 09:49.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: First, they did have backups.
[09:49.600 --> 09:52.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Not only that, the backups were stored off-site.
[09:52.620 --> 09:59.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: And second, the spokesperson said that they didn't store sensitive information on that machine because too many people had access to it.
[10:00.660 --> 10:11.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: And finally, he implied that the level of computer security wasn't that high, precisely because anyone from anyone else's campaign could have walked in off the street and achieved a position of trust.
[10:11.700 --> 10:18.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: In other words, don't worry about your technical security measures if your other protections, including personnel screening, don't match up.
[10:19.740 --> 10:23.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Security is as strong as the weakest link, as we all know.
[10:24.180 --> 10:32.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: And according to a local radio station in Virginia, the Perot office had been staffed over the weekend with untrained and unsupervised volunteers.
[10:33.600 --> 10:44.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: The broadcast drew no conclusions from this statement, but it strongly suggested that the problem may have been the result of an innocent mistake in a poorly organized activity.
[10:45.920 --> 10:52.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: So that's a bit of fun from the election world involving computers and things like that.
[10:52.300 --> 11:02.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Meanwhile, up in Canada, Bell Canada is scrambling to repair a computer error that allows some Ottawa payphones to dispense free phone sex services.
[11:03.080 --> 11:08.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: The error has been giving callers easy access for months to graphic recordings of simulated kinky sex.
[11:09.380 --> 11:14.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Callers have also been able to speak to women whose job is to fulfill sexual fantasies by talking dirty.
[11:15.860 --> 11:16.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: Amazing.
[11:16.980 --> 11:22.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bell officials weren't aware of the glitch in the system until an Ottawa citizen reporter told them of it.
[11:22.460 --> 11:29.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Phone sex clients certainly weren't going to call Bell and tell us they were getting this for free, said official Lynn Franquire.
[11:29.000 --> 11:37.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: She could not say why Bell hadn't detected the error, which has affected payphones in Ottawa's West End and in the nearby community of Nipion.
[11:38.180 --> 11:43.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Nor could she say how much money Bell and the phone sex companies have lost or how long the error has existed.
[11:44.240 --> 11:47.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Many West End high school students have known about this for months.
[11:47.480 --> 11:55.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: At Woodruff High School, where three payphones allowed the no-charge calls, several teenagers said they knew of the free dial-o-porn since late 1990.
[11:56.640 --> 12:01.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's perverted, said a 16-year-old male in grade 10 who asked not to be identified.
[12:03.280 --> 12:08.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: And here's an anonymous bit that was contributed to the Internet over the past couple of weeks.
[12:09.100 --> 12:16.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: And if you think that things are bad here, well, it's always a possibility for things to get worse someplace else.
[12:17.320 --> 12:29.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: This person writes, I was dismayed to find out today that Telecom Australia, which holds a virtual monopoly on telecommunications in Australia, they will disconnect a line given only two pieces of information.
[12:29.360 --> 12:36.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: These two bits of information that you need to know to disconnect the phone number are the telephone number and the subscriber's name.
[12:37.040 --> 12:37.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's it.
[12:38.140 --> 12:42.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: Anyone listed in the phone book, therefore, is an easy target for prank denial of service.
[12:44.620 --> 12:47.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: More seriously, however, are some of the technology-related considerations.
[12:47.920 --> 12:51.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: The building in which I work has a number of outside lines on a rotary.
[12:51.720 --> 12:55.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: The alarm system, when triggered, however, notifies a security firm on a fixed line.
[12:55.980 --> 13:02.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: A high-tech criminal could simply have that line disconnected and we would never know since the other lines on the exchange would still work.
[13:03.940 --> 13:11.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, never underestimate the power of ignorance here to really mess things up big time.
[13:12.940 --> 13:17.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: we have been talking about various technological advances.
[13:17.800 --> 13:26.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Actually, there's one thing I'd like to demonstrate first before we get into our little lecture about caller ID and star 6ix9 and the other evils.
[13:26.680 --> 13:31.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: I hope people have been experimenting with that because we are going to be talking about that one more time this week.
[13:32.400 --> 13:41.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: But there is one other thing I would kind of like to show people, to show people how unjust and cruel the world can be sometimes.
[13:41.840 --> 13:45.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, let's see if we can get a dial tone out there.
[13:46.120 --> 13:46.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, there's one.
[13:46.800 --> 13:47.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Beautiful.
[13:47.880 --> 13:53.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now we're going to try and access an operator.
[13:53.980 --> 13:57.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: One of those amazing people that can do anything and tell us anything.
[14:00.080 --> 14:01.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: Mr. Thomas, do I have a phone?
[14:01.880 --> 14:04.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, hello, I need a long distance company, please.
[14:04.740 --> 14:05.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: Thank you.
[14:07.920 --> 14:09.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: I wonder which one I'll get.
[14:10.080 --> 14:13.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: One moment for a long distance operator who can assist you.
[14:14.700 --> 14:16.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, let's hope the connection is better than that.
[14:23.880 --> 14:25.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, those tones bring back memories.
[14:27.520 --> 14:28.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Cable and wireless may help you.
[14:29.820 --> 14:31.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Cable and wireless, okay.
[14:31.260 --> 14:37.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: I was wondering if you could tell me the cost for a call to overseas information.
[14:38.480 --> 14:40.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, which country, sir?
[14:40.480 --> 14:41.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: This would be for England.
[14:42.420 --> 14:43.100]  One moment.
[15:11.750 --> 15:13.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: You have to type quite a bit to get that, don't you?
[15:14.370 --> 15:15.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Unfortunately, yeah.
[15:17.070 --> 15:22.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you make your call right now, it will be 535 for the first three minutes.
[15:23.530 --> 15:27.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, that's 535 for a call to England.
[15:28.410 --> 15:29.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is that correct?
[15:30.830 --> 15:31.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's see.
[15:31.810 --> 15:34.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: More realistically, it will be about one minute.
[15:45.560 --> 15:47.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just giving me the three-minute rate, sir.
[15:47.500 --> 15:49.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's 535 for the first three minutes.
[15:49.460 --> 15:52.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's probably just a flat 535.
[15:53.460 --> 15:53.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[15:54.100 --> 15:57.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you go over three minutes, then it will be 60 cents each additional minute.
[15:58.560 --> 15:59.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, fine.
[15:59.220 --> 15:59.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you very much.
[15:59.900 --> 16:01.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you know the number, sir?
[16:01.660 --> 16:02.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: Not yet, no.
[16:03.100 --> 16:05.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I have the number if you need it.
[16:06.740 --> 16:07.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: The number for what?
[16:09.440 --> 16:11.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: The Directory Assistance for the United Kingdom.
[16:11.780 --> 16:13.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is there a direct dial number I can call?
[16:13.920 --> 16:14.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, sir.
[16:14.500 --> 16:15.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, what's that number?
[16:15.640 --> 16:24.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, you dial 011 44 819 863 611.
[16:25.920 --> 16:26.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Really?
[16:26.400 --> 16:27.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that's information?
[16:27.440 --> 16:28.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm, for the entire United Kingdom.
[16:29.340 --> 16:30.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Does every country have a number like that?
[16:32.500 --> 16:37.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, well, actually, the United Kingdom is the only one that you can dial direct.
[16:37.800 --> 16:42.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just about all of the countries, you have to go through the United States operator and have them connect.
[16:43.620 --> 16:45.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: But the United Kingdom does have a direct dial number.
[16:46.940 --> 16:47.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: I see.
[16:47.500 --> 16:48.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Can you give me that number one more time?
[16:48.800 --> 16:49.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, sir.
[16:49.840 --> 17:00.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's 011 44 81 9863 611.
[17:01.800 --> 17:02.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[17:02.580 --> 17:08.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: And if you need any country other than England, if it's within the United Kingdom, they'll transfer you at that number.
[17:09.060 --> 17:10.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, if it's within the United Kingdom.
[17:10.700 --> 17:11.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, great.
[17:11.780 --> 17:12.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, thank you very much.
[17:12.880 --> 17:14.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for using cable and wireless.
[17:14.320 --> 17:14.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bye-bye.
[17:16.140 --> 17:17.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, that was certainly a revelation.
[17:17.940 --> 17:20.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: That was not at all what I was planning on doing here.
[17:20.860 --> 17:23.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: I had no idea there was a direct dialable number for information overseas.
[17:24.160 --> 17:27.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: I was expecting to get AT&T like we always do.
[17:27.740 --> 17:37.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: For some reason, we went to a different company this time, but I'm going to outsmart them and get AT&T anyway because the whole point of what I was trying to prove will be lost if I don't do that.
[17:37.340 --> 17:38.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Let's see if we have an outside line.
[17:39.020 --> 17:39.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[17:39.820 --> 17:44.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: What I'll do now is call an 800 number that will guarantee
[17:54.000 --> 17:55.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't want to call 718.
[17:56.040 --> 17:56.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know why that came on.
[17:56.960 --> 17:57.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: Let's try it one more time.
[17:59.020 --> 17:59.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[17:59.580 --> 18:00.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: We have our dial tone.
[18:06.010 --> 18:08.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: And let's see if we actually made it this time.
[18:10.730 --> 18:13.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you for calling AT&T.
[18:13.590 --> 18:17.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: If your phone is Touch-Tone, please choose from the following options.
[18:17.990 --> 18:24.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you're calling regarding the AT&T Universal MasterCard or Visa credit card, press 1.
[18:24.610 --> 18:25.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: For dialing...
[18:25.810 --> 18:27.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: What kind of a connection is this?
[18:27.370 --> 18:30.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: In placing an AT&T call, press 2.
[18:30.790 --> 18:36.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you're calling regarding your AT&T calling card or any other purpose, press 3.
[18:37.550 --> 18:39.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think we want to press 2.
[18:39.270 --> 18:39.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: try it.
[18:40.530 --> 18:55.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you have dialed 0 plus the area code and number and did not hear AT&T, please hang up and dial 1 0 ATT 0 plus the area code and number you are calling.
[18:55.850 --> 19:07.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you have already attempted to dial 1 0 ATT 0 plus the area code and the number and did not hear AT&T press 1.
[19:08.770 --> 19:11.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm going to press 1 because I want to talk to a human.
[19:15.500 --> 19:21.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: AT&T please dial the number you are calling or 0 for an operator now.
[19:26.840 --> 19:28.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: I dialed 0 for an operator.
[19:28.580 --> 19:29.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Can I help you?
[19:29.700 --> 19:31.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, hi, is this AT&T?
[19:31.800 --> 19:33.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: I was wondering if you could tell me something.
[19:33.940 --> 19:37.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: I need to know how much it costs to call overseas information.
[19:40.330 --> 19:41.360]  [SPEAKER_19]: Overseas information?
[19:41.640 --> 19:41.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[19:44.630 --> 19:46.910]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's $3 plus tax information.
[19:47.470 --> 19:48.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: $3 a call.
[19:48.550 --> 19:53.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, can you also tell me the cost to call England at night?
[19:55.470 --> 19:56.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, this is a terrible connection.
[19:58.310 --> 19:59.470]  [SPEAKER_19]: In what country, sir?
[20:02.870 --> 20:03.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: This can you hear me?
[20:05.230 --> 20:05.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello?
[20:06.730 --> 20:07.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello?
[20:07.390 --> 20:08.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, can you hear me?
[20:09.090 --> 20:09.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, this is terrible.
[20:10.190 --> 20:10.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, I'm here.
[20:10.950 --> 20:12.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: We have a very bad connection for some reason.
[20:13.170 --> 20:14.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: What's the last question you had?
[20:14.310 --> 20:17.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: I wanted to know what the basic cost is to call England at night.
[20:17.730 --> 20:18.410]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, one moment.
[20:18.650 --> 20:19.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you.
[20:19.510 --> 20:21.050]  [SPEAKER_19]: How will you be paying for the call?
[20:21.370 --> 20:23.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: This would be directly dialed.
[20:23.610 --> 20:24.350]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, one moment.
[20:24.650 --> 20:26.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: Dialed direct from 6 p.m.
[20:26.250 --> 20:27.110]  [SPEAKER_19]: to 7 a.m.?
[20:27.110 --> 20:27.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[20:27.690 --> 20:32.270]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's 98 cents for the first minute, 60 cents plus tax each additional minute.
[20:32.510 --> 20:34.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: And what's the most expensive rate?
[20:34.650 --> 20:36.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: Most expensive is from 7 a.m.
[20:36.690 --> 20:43.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: to 1 p.m., which is $1.44 for the first minute, 94 cents plus tax each additional minute.
[20:43.310 --> 20:46.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it's actually cheaper to call somebody than to call information.
[20:47.470 --> 20:47.990]  Right.
[20:48.330 --> 20:56.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: So theoretically I could call somebody a total stranger and just ask them to open up the phone book and give me the number that I want and it would be cheaper than calling information.
[20:58.690 --> 21:00.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's an interesting thought.
[21:01.090 --> 21:02.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: I just came up with that.
[21:03.330 --> 21:03.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[21:03.790 --> 21:04.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, thank you very much for your help.
[21:04.870 --> 21:05.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're welcome.
[21:05.550 --> 21:05.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[21:06.530 --> 21:08.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: That was the point I was trying to make.
[21:08.110 --> 21:15.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: The point is that AT&T has gone completely insane and they are charging now more than the cost for a call.
[21:15.190 --> 21:15.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, imagine this.
[21:15.770 --> 21:20.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: You call somebody at random in England or any country in the world because the rates are pretty similar no matter where you go.
[21:21.510 --> 21:37.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: And after the initial confusion of what it is that you want and getting over language barriers and things like that, let's say three minutes go by and then you're able to get the thought across that you want somebody to open up a phone book and give you a number in their particular country.
[21:37.950 --> 21:38.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, let's see.
[21:38.750 --> 21:39.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: We add
[21:46.410 --> 21:49.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: so that's about two dollars and eighteen cents there.
[21:49.330 --> 21:52.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, let's add in another minute just for the fun of it.
[21:52.750 --> 21:54.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we still have less.
[21:54.670 --> 22:00.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: A four-minute call to a total stranger is less than a one-minute call to information.
[22:01.190 --> 22:02.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: Where is the sense in this?
[22:02.790 --> 22:03.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: You tell me.
[22:03.670 --> 22:04.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: I have no idea.
[22:05.510 --> 22:08.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's where our long-distance phone companies are going these days.
[22:09.330 --> 22:21.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, now back to the topic at hand which is the rather ominous trend in telecommunications these days to have complete accountability for everything that you do on your telephone.
[22:21.990 --> 22:26.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm speaking mostly of Star Six Nine which is making inroads on Long Island.
[22:27.230 --> 22:32.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: A good portion of Long Island now has Star Six Nine and it's caught most people by surprise.
[22:32.590 --> 22:34.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: I confirmed it this week.
[22:34.310 --> 22:48.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: I talked to a New York Telephone representative at quite some length and I thoroughly confused her I think and I asked her point blank how do you block Star Six Nine and for those of you that don't know what it is Star Six Nine is a service where you can
[23:11.810 --> 23:16.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: Which I don't know if it works yet outside the local zone, but if it is, it'll show up on your regular phone bill.
[23:17.930 --> 23:23.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, I asked the service representative, well, how do you block this?
[23:23.050 --> 23:24.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because this is a form of caller ID.
[23:25.050 --> 23:31.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, it's not called caller ID, but it is the same thing because you're calling somebody and they can find out what your phone number is.
[23:32.010 --> 23:33.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: It might not be on a screen.
[23:33.590 --> 23:34.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: It might be through a phone bill.
[23:35.010 --> 23:39.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: It might be just by calling you up and somehow getting your phone number out of you.
[23:39.730 --> 23:40.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: All kinds of ways.
[23:40.730 --> 23:46.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's a form, though, of identifying the people that are calling you, and that's what I call caller ID.
[23:46.950 --> 23:49.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I asked the service representative, how do you turn this off?
[23:49.910 --> 23:51.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: How do you stop this from happening?
[23:52.030 --> 23:57.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: And she went away for about five, maybe six minutes searching around to find out the answer to that.
[23:57.330 --> 24:06.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: At first, she said star 8-9, but it turns out that star 8-9, all that does is stop star 6-9 from continuously retrying somebody.
[24:06.010 --> 24:13.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: For instance, if you star 6-9 someone and they're busy, you can keep calling them for, I think, up to a half an hour until their phone is not busy anymore.
[24:13.810 --> 24:15.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you can disable that by dialing star 8-9.
[24:17.630 --> 24:19.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: However, that was not what I was asking.
[24:19.370 --> 24:24.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: I was asking, how do you call somebody and not have them call you back?
[24:25.310 --> 24:28.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: And she said, there's no way to do that.
[24:28.910 --> 24:38.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, I feel like we've been betrayed in some way because I recall the conversations about caller ID as that was being debated.
[24:38.770 --> 24:48.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: And a very important concern was privacy, was keeping your phone number private, was making sure that people don't get your number and cannot call you back.
[24:48.650 --> 24:55.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: And here we have this feature, this star 6-9, all of a sudden, shows up out of nowhere, and there's no way to stop it.
[24:55.930 --> 24:56.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: No way at all.
[24:57.790 --> 25:11.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, there are ways to defeat it, but they involve things like going to payphones, using long-distance companies, calling collect, being sneaky, and doing all kinds of other creative things.
[25:11.210 --> 25:19.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we're going to be printing some tricks in our next issue of 2600, but people should not have to resort to that kind of a thing.
[25:20.370 --> 25:22.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'd like to know what people's views are.
[25:22.670 --> 25:30.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: If they had a decision to make, if they were asked point blank, do you want these features, yes or no, would you want them?
[25:30.230 --> 25:31.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you want a way to block your number?
[25:33.630 --> 25:39.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: And how do you feel now that, apparently, there is no way to do this?
[25:39.610 --> 25:43.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: And if the phone company has its way, there never will be.
[25:44.930 --> 25:48.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, our telephone number is 212-279-3400.
[25:49.090 --> 25:56.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you have any comments on this or anything else, before we go to the phones, I'd just like to mention what we'll be doing next week.
[25:56.670 --> 26:10.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: We've been talking about the privacy of cellular phone calls for quite some time, and we've had some people supply us with demonstrations as to how insecure cellular phone calls really are.
[26:10.990 --> 26:15.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: Next week, I think you'll be astounded at what we found out.
[26:15.750 --> 26:18.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: Boy, I sound like Geraldo Rivera, but...
[26:18.430 --> 26:20.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, it's really something.
[26:20.730 --> 26:21.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's shocking.
[26:21.770 --> 26:22.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's amazing.
[26:22.470 --> 26:23.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's terrible.
[26:23.210 --> 26:24.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: It'll make you...
[26:24.710 --> 26:27.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, get a second radio, because you might break your first one when you hear these things.
[26:28.930 --> 26:40.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: And get your congressman's phone number so you can be prepared to write to them and comment to them as to how insecure and wide-open cellular phone conversations are.
[26:41.050 --> 26:45.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: And if you're thinking of getting a cellular phone, you'll want to hear this program.
[26:45.530 --> 26:46.690]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's next week at this time.
[26:46.870 --> 26:47.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, let's go to the phones.
[26:47.950 --> 26:50.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-279-3400.
[26:50.610 --> 26:51.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening.
[26:51.370 --> 26:52.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're on off the hook.
[26:52.230 --> 26:52.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[26:53.210 --> 26:53.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: Emmanuel?
[26:53.890 --> 26:54.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes?
[26:55.030 --> 26:59.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, my interest is a little different from your current discussion.
[26:59.610 --> 27:03.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Some time ago, you had a gentleman who wrote a book called Terminal Connection.
[27:03.870 --> 27:04.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[27:04.870 --> 27:09.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've been trying to locate that along with Risk Magazine, and I've been unable to.
[27:09.570 --> 27:10.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: What was the name of the book?
[27:11.130 --> 27:12.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: Terminal Connection.
[27:12.230 --> 27:13.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, Terminal Compromise.
[27:13.750 --> 27:14.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, Terminal Compromise.
[27:14.850 --> 27:16.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, that's Wynne Schwartow.
[27:16.650 --> 27:17.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: He's...
[27:17.050 --> 27:23.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know the publisher's name, but I know he's in Tennessee, and you might find him that way.
[27:25.630 --> 27:32.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm not sure exactly how you would find the publisher of that book, but it is called Terminal Compromise, and we interviewed him a couple months ago.
[27:33.770 --> 27:35.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: And your other question was?
[27:36.010 --> 27:36.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: Risk Magazine.
[27:36.970 --> 27:37.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: Risk Digest.
[27:37.750 --> 27:39.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, Risk Digest is on the Internet.
[27:39.510 --> 27:40.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you have Internet access?
[27:40.870 --> 27:43.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, you've got to be coming to the university for that, right?
[27:43.550 --> 27:53.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, well, it's either you get it through a business, or you get it through a university, or you subscribe to some kind of public access system, all of which are not that hard to do.
[27:53.850 --> 27:58.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: And when we find out more information on things like that, of course, we broadcast it here.
[27:58.390 --> 28:08.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: But what I advise people to do is, it's actually worth it to take a single course at a university, spend maybe $100 or something, and get access that way.
[28:08.770 --> 28:10.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: Get an Internet account.
[28:11.110 --> 28:16.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: That will provide you access to the entire world, literally thousands of newsletters.
[28:16.310 --> 28:21.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the Risk Digest is called comp.risk, C-O-M-P dot R-I-S-K-S.
[28:21.850 --> 28:28.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you would simply go to the news section of whatever system you're on and read it that way or have it sent directly to you.
[28:29.090 --> 28:34.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: But I think people should try aggressively to get involved in that, because there's a lot of information being passed around.
[28:34.470 --> 28:36.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it shouldn't just be for an elite few.
[28:36.330 --> 28:37.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: It should be for everybody.
[28:37.330 --> 28:37.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[28:37.750 --> 28:48.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: But on your episode with the cell phone scanning, you can't get the complete conversation if it's switching from cell to cell?
[28:49.250 --> 28:53.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I think what you'll find is that you can get a good percentage of it.
[28:53.650 --> 28:57.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: For instance, it's switching from cell to cell because people are moving around.
[28:57.690 --> 28:57.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[28:57.930 --> 29:08.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: If people are not moving around, say, caught in a traffic jam or, say, just in their homes, for some reason people like to use cellular phones, you know, when they visit people or when they're in restaurants or things like that, you can catch pretty much the whole thing.
[29:09.030 --> 29:09.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: I know.
[29:09.510 --> 29:12.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: And even a portion of a conversation...
[29:12.730 --> 29:15.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, your conversation should not be listened to by anybody.
[29:15.670 --> 29:15.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[29:16.030 --> 29:20.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yet, I can tell you right now that cellular phone calls are being listened to all the time.
[29:20.830 --> 29:21.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I'm sure.
[29:21.530 --> 29:22.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's interesting.
[29:22.390 --> 29:27.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the only thing supposedly protecting you is a law saying it's not legal to do that, which is the most absurd thing in the world.
[29:27.970 --> 29:30.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: First of all, how can you tell somebody that they can't listen to the radio?
[29:30.890 --> 29:31.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[29:31.350 --> 29:35.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Second of all, how can you use that as the only means of protection of a phone conversation?
[29:36.070 --> 29:36.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's beyond me.
[29:36.870 --> 29:37.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: Why don't they encode it?
[29:38.470 --> 29:44.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because that would cost the cellular phone companies money, and they don't want to spend on new technology and things like that.
[29:44.370 --> 29:49.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: They'd rather give you a false sense of security by saying that this conversation is protected by a law.
[29:50.530 --> 29:51.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's absurd.
[29:51.250 --> 29:55.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the only time it's going to change is when people get angry and say something to their representatives.
[29:55.990 --> 29:56.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[29:56.510 --> 29:56.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you.
[29:57.010 --> 29:57.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[29:57.270 --> 29:57.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thanks for calling.
[29:57.970 --> 29:58.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[29:58.890 --> 30:09.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, this cellular thing has sort of been growing in me for a while, and I'm starting to get upset because I can see maybe 10 years from now I might actually get a cellular phone, and I certainly don't want people listening in on me.
[30:09.790 --> 30:10.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening.
[30:10.890 --> 30:11.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, am I in the air?
[30:12.090 --> 30:12.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, you are.
[30:13.090 --> 30:13.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi.
[30:13.650 --> 30:14.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: How are you doing?
[30:14.230 --> 30:14.690]  [SPEAKER_13]: What's on your mind?
[30:14.730 --> 30:14.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[30:15.390 --> 30:17.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'd like to talk about the...
[30:19.650 --> 30:20.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: What was it?
[30:21.730 --> 30:24.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: The technology of...
[30:24.550 --> 30:25.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yes.
[30:27.970 --> 30:28.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[30:29.570 --> 30:31.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: When you dial...
[30:31.070 --> 30:34.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if you know this, but when you dial that 800 number...
[30:34.670 --> 30:36.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: Which 800 number is this?
[30:36.210 --> 30:37.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: The call ATT number?
[30:37.450 --> 30:37.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[30:37.710 --> 30:37.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[30:38.510 --> 30:39.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: You cannot...
[30:39.730 --> 30:45.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: They make it on purpose so that you cannot place any direct redial calls.
[30:45.530 --> 30:46.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: In other words, you have to...
[30:47.690 --> 30:53.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: When you use that number, you can only place a call if it's correct or billing to a third number or a calling card.
[30:53.270 --> 30:53.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[30:53.450 --> 30:54.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, that is meant for...
[30:54.350 --> 30:56.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: That number is sort of a substitute for zero plus.
[30:56.690 --> 31:09.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you're at, say, one of those weird payphones where you dial zero plus and you get a strange company that will gladly take your AT&T calling card, you can bypass that since no payphone in its right mind will not allow you to call an 800 number, and then it'll get billed by AT&T.
[31:09.910 --> 31:11.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's the whole purpose of that number.
[31:12.450 --> 31:19.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: And when you mentioned the thing when you were calling and you got those tones, those du-du-du-du-du-du-du, those tones, you said that was familiar?
[31:19.250 --> 31:19.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[31:19.590 --> 31:24.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: I recognize them, too, because that's the old analog dialing method.
[31:24.650 --> 31:28.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, actually, in retrospect now, I realize that's cable and wireless since we got connected to them.
[31:28.290 --> 31:32.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because they probably use the old system that New York Telephone and AT&T used to use.
[31:32.810 --> 31:34.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, actually, you know what I think they do?
[31:34.170 --> 31:36.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think they play the same tones every time you make a phone call.
[31:37.530 --> 31:41.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you want... I have a tape of 10 years ago when I made an overseas call.
[31:41.710 --> 31:43.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you want me to play it, I have it ready.
[31:43.590 --> 31:43.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sure.
[31:44.270 --> 31:45.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: You want me to play it?
[31:45.330 --> 31:49.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: As long as you don't give away any vital information that somebody might not want you to give away, go ahead.
[31:49.530 --> 31:50.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hold on, and I'll play it right now.
[31:50.990 --> 31:51.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[31:51.730 --> 31:52.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hold on, and let me see.
[31:52.730 --> 31:53.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: Phones from the past.
[31:55.290 --> 31:56.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: Always playing little beeps and buzzes here.
[31:57.430 --> 31:57.750]  Hi,
[32:00.900 --> 32:00.980]  Eric.
[32:01.480 --> 32:03.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, would I to call France, correct?
[32:04.260 --> 32:04.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[32:05.380 --> 32:05.800]  Good moment.
[32:06.260 --> 32:06.440]  Hello.
[32:07.440 --> 32:09.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Country code, city code, and number three.
[32:09.880 --> 32:13.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, three is the country code, one is the city code, and the number is 74939...
[32:13.860 --> 32:14.460]  All right, all right.
[32:14.520 --> 32:15.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: We don't need the number given out.
[32:16.120 --> 32:16.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[32:16.480 --> 32:16.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[32:16.940 --> 32:17.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: What is your name?
[32:17.720 --> 32:18.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mrs. Suckalow.
[32:19.160 --> 32:19.520]  Thank you.
[32:23.170 --> 32:24.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, you hear that?
[32:24.250 --> 32:26.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, those are MF tones, and...
[32:26.350 --> 32:30.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: You see, that was the old AT&T system.
[32:30.670 --> 32:31.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[32:31.450 --> 32:31.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: You see?
[32:32.370 --> 32:35.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, now, you will still hear those tones on occasion in various places.
[32:35.790 --> 32:39.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: You do not use AT&T, you will, but if you use AT&T, you will never hear those tones.
[32:40.070 --> 32:40.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: Mm-hmm.
[32:40.290 --> 32:41.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: On your telephone, they do not use...
[32:41.930 --> 32:44.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if you know what a DMS-10 is.
[32:45.010 --> 32:47.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: A DMS-10, a Northern Telecom DMS-10?
[32:47.390 --> 32:49.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: And an AT&T 5ESS.
[32:49.470 --> 32:49.690]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[32:49.770 --> 32:51.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think you might mean a DMS-100, though.
[32:51.970 --> 32:53.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, well, isn't that a toll switch?
[32:53.970 --> 32:55.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, that's a DMS-200.
[32:55.830 --> 32:56.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, okay.
[32:56.270 --> 33:06.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, well, right now is, New York Telephone, I think the only, well, they use DMS-10s, 5ESS, and 1ESS, which is the old one.
[33:06.310 --> 33:06.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[33:06.730 --> 33:07.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: The 60s.
[33:07.530 --> 33:11.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think, I don't know what that is, and I've always wanted to know what it was that I was doing.
[33:11.890 --> 33:16.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is that the operator's circuit dialing as if it was a Touch-Tone phone?
[33:16.370 --> 33:17.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, those are MF tones.
[33:17.670 --> 33:19.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: In fact, that's what an old blue box would use.
[33:19.910 --> 33:24.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, and MF tones are still used in various ways for various things.
[33:25.010 --> 33:29.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's just not as simple to, uh, to box a call anymore, at least, uh, not within this country.
[33:29.430 --> 33:33.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: But it's still very possible to do it, uh, in, in, in various ways.
[33:33.430 --> 33:37.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: Tones are used, different tones are used, uh, it just requires a bit more thought.
[33:37.510 --> 33:43.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: But those are, those MF tones that you hear are the blue box tones as far as everyone else is concerned.
[33:43.870 --> 33:44.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: I see.
[33:44.770 --> 33:44.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[33:45.510 --> 33:45.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um...
[33:45.730 --> 33:46.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: Bit of history there.
[33:46.550 --> 33:50.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you've ever noticed that the new digital switching, it does not click.
[33:51.110 --> 33:58.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, your phone number has the old electronic, the 1ESS switch, which is not digital, which is an analog, and, uh...
[33:58.170 --> 33:59.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's electronic, but it's not digital.
[33:59.430 --> 33:59.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[33:59.990 --> 34:00.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's electronic.
[34:01.090 --> 34:04.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the new 5ESS and DMS10s are all digital.
[34:04.590 --> 34:17.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: But there's a difference between a 5ESS and a DMS10, and you can tell, because the 5ESS, sometimes it'll, on the first ring, give like half a ring or a quarter of a ring, and on the DMS10, it gives a full ring all the time.
[34:18.810 --> 34:21.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you're sure this never happens with a 5ESS?
[34:21.530 --> 34:23.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've done phone experiments for the past...
[34:23.690 --> 34:31.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've been in college, uh, uh, and I've done this since January, playing around, fiddling, and I've tried to start 69 and all, and...
[34:31.150 --> 34:31.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[34:31.510 --> 34:32.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: What area are you in?
[34:32.690 --> 34:36.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I live in New York City, but I go to school up in, uh, Morrisville.
[34:36.910 --> 34:37.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[34:37.910 --> 34:38.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, up in that area.
[34:39.410 --> 34:39.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: Morrisville?
[34:39.850 --> 34:40.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's the middle of nowhere, isn't it?
[34:40.790 --> 34:41.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's in the middle of the state.
[34:42.510 --> 34:42.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[34:43.110 --> 34:44.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I know where it is, actually.
[34:44.590 --> 34:45.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's a very small campus, right?
[34:45.990 --> 34:46.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[34:46.710 --> 34:47.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, okay.
[34:47.330 --> 34:48.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: I've actually been there.
[34:48.550 --> 34:49.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a GTE phone company.
[34:49.950 --> 34:54.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they're very strange, because if you've ever noticed, you can't dial 0 plus...
[34:55.190 --> 34:59.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: like in the 315 area code, you cannot dial the area code.
[34:59.470 --> 35:02.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: When you dial a number, you dial 0 and then the number.
[35:02.190 --> 35:06.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Whereas here, you dial 0, 718, or 212, and then the number.
[35:06.210 --> 35:06.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[35:06.710 --> 35:09.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's because you have area codes as exchanges.
[35:09.970 --> 35:14.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, you'd have a 212, 315, 333, or whatever.
[35:15.170 --> 35:15.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[35:15.490 --> 35:17.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: There, they don't have that yet, at least.
[35:17.930 --> 35:18.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: So they don't need it.
[35:18.870 --> 35:20.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can't do that on Long Island or Westchester, either.
[35:21.070 --> 35:23.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you don't have to dial a 1 first on Long Island.
[35:23.410 --> 35:23.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: I know that.
[35:23.850 --> 35:24.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, no, no.
[35:24.290 --> 35:25.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: You don't have to dial a 1.
[35:25.330 --> 35:27.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm talking about dialing operator-assisted calls.
[35:27.450 --> 35:28.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: I see.
[35:30.470 --> 35:35.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: And there, you can't make local collect calls, because they have a flat rate, but that's a different source.
[35:35.310 --> 35:36.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you see, that's GTE territory.
[35:37.170 --> 35:39.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: GTE, different rules seem to apply.
[35:39.270 --> 35:42.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's also, it's weird, because it's the biggest phone company now in the country.
[35:42.970 --> 35:44.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: GTE is a big company, yes.
[35:44.510 --> 35:50.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it just merged with Contel, so they are the biggest local company, bigger than NYNEX, even.
[35:50.450 --> 35:50.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Really?
[35:50.810 --> 35:52.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because they took over Contel.
[35:52.610 --> 35:52.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[35:53.410 --> 35:55.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, I'm sure things will change.
[35:55.710 --> 35:57.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: I also want to talk about payphones in the city.
[35:58.110 --> 36:05.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm doing messenger work, and I find a lot that, you see, I have to call my office, and I really find a lot that their payphones are, like, broken.
[36:05.630 --> 36:10.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the homeless people stuff, like paper towels or tissues, into the coin returns.
[36:10.970 --> 36:14.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: And people should listen to this, because when they use a payphone, they really should check.
[36:14.530 --> 36:23.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: They stuff, they obstruct the coin returns, so that when people's money come back, like when there's no answer or something, they'll just lose it.
[36:23.110 --> 36:28.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then I've seen a person come back, take a hanger, and just call on it.
[36:28.590 --> 36:30.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just, they would know how to do it.
[36:30.590 --> 36:31.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: They just call on it.
[36:31.610 --> 36:31.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[36:32.090 --> 36:32.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Get them all the money.
[36:33.410 --> 36:34.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Every time I see that, I report it.
[36:34.990 --> 36:37.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: I always dial 611, and people should do this, too.
[36:37.730 --> 36:43.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: I always dial 611, and if you don't have the phone number of a payphone, do you know 958?
[36:44.370 --> 36:45.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: 958 will give you the number most of the time.
[36:46.310 --> 36:47.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a useful thing, actually.
[36:48.170 --> 36:51.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it's useful, but call cuts won't give you a number from that.
[36:52.210 --> 36:53.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, the other pay funds won't give you a...
[36:53.870 --> 36:57.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: Call cuts, the... well, right.
[36:57.270 --> 36:58.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can't do it on a call cut phone.
[36:58.670 --> 36:59.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Some of them you can.
[36:59.690 --> 37:02.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have to put a quarter in, and sometimes they'll get your money back.
[37:02.730 --> 37:03.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[37:03.490 --> 37:05.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Call cuts will block 958 most of the time.
[37:06.930 --> 37:07.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, it's pretty silly.
[37:07.970 --> 37:10.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, 958, the phone, and try and get the number.
[37:10.870 --> 37:13.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just dial 611 and report it, which is what I do.
[37:13.590 --> 37:15.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, wait, do you wait until the person takes all the money?
[37:15.730 --> 37:16.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, no, no, no, no.
[37:16.270 --> 37:16.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: Or do you push them aside?
[37:16.790 --> 37:18.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I'm saying, if...
[37:18.030 --> 37:20.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, this is what I do.
[37:20.450 --> 37:22.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, whenever I use a public phone, I always check it.
[37:22.610 --> 37:24.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just don't put a quarter in and just dial a number.
[37:24.710 --> 37:27.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: Always check the coin return, check the coin release, make sure there's a dial.
[37:27.750 --> 37:33.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, because, you know, you don't want to lose money, because I've lost a lot of money in pay funds and vandalized pay funds.
[37:33.770 --> 37:34.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[37:34.730 --> 37:38.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, if the phone is broken, I always just...
[37:38.130 --> 37:42.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, out of conscience, I just dial 611 and get the number and report it.
[37:42.750 --> 37:47.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: But just because there's an inconvenience, there's people, a whole line of people waiting for a phone because the other one's broken.
[37:48.810 --> 37:50.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, and there are a lot of broken phones out there.
[37:51.010 --> 37:53.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you don't want to use those coconut phones because they're really unreliable.
[37:53.770 --> 37:55.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, you lose money in that, too.
[37:55.150 --> 37:56.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it's a cheaper technology.
[37:58.410 --> 38:02.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's sad because the potential for those phones is great.
[38:02.450 --> 38:04.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, they could provide all kinds of neat services.
[38:04.830 --> 38:05.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: You mean the call cut phones?
[38:05.650 --> 38:05.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[38:06.370 --> 38:06.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, they can.
[38:06.950 --> 38:07.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: Instead, they rip people off.
[38:08.150 --> 38:09.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, but they are a ripper.
[38:09.710 --> 38:14.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, they can be programmed to work like regular new telephone payphones.
[38:15.110 --> 38:15.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: Mm-hmm.
[38:16.290 --> 38:17.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: And they should be.
[38:17.190 --> 38:19.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: They should be programmed to be as close to a normal phone as possible.
[38:20.110 --> 38:23.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I called the Public Service Commission and talked about that and things like that.
[38:23.210 --> 38:24.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, it's kind of hard to get through to them, though, sometimes.
[38:24.850 --> 38:26.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, there's these type of telephones.
[38:26.470 --> 38:30.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Have you ever seen the type of telephones that look like regular desk phones?
[38:30.970 --> 38:32.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: You mean they're actually payphones?
[38:32.690 --> 38:34.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're big desk phones that you put a quarter in?
[38:34.830 --> 38:35.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, I've seen those.
[38:35.510 --> 38:36.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: A lot of those in Europe, actually.
[38:36.630 --> 38:38.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: On that, I've seen people...
[38:43.820 --> 38:45.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: ...another number, any other number.
[38:45.180 --> 38:47.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because those are really hooked up to a regular phone line.
[38:48.180 --> 38:48.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[38:48.820 --> 38:54.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: You see, and that's why the telephone companies should start calling for acceptance, even on non-calling phones.
[38:54.580 --> 38:58.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because what they'll do is, on a regular phone, like a home phone or an office phone...
[38:58.620 --> 38:59.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, they won't... that's a very good point.
[38:59.820 --> 39:02.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: They won't call for acceptance, except if you're at a payphone.
[39:02.160 --> 39:02.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: That is true.
[39:02.740 --> 39:04.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: At a payphone, they should start calling for...
[39:04.480 --> 39:06.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because people can just make fraudulent calls.
[39:06.540 --> 39:06.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[39:06.840 --> 39:09.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: A lot of times, though, they are able to tell if it's a private payphone.
[39:09.380 --> 39:10.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: They can tell...
[39:10.060 --> 39:11.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, no, no, but this is not a private payphone.
[39:11.980 --> 39:12.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is not...
[39:12.520 --> 39:17.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Private payphone, the cold cop phones, which are the phones that look like regular New York telephone payphones.
[39:17.320 --> 39:17.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[39:17.740 --> 39:20.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is a telephone that you buy in a store for, like, $200.
[39:21.060 --> 39:23.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've seen them, and then you just plug them into your...
[39:23.340 --> 39:24.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can have one in your house if you want.
[39:25.380 --> 39:26.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've seen them in doctor's offices.
[39:26.940 --> 39:28.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've seen them in restaurants.
[39:29.020 --> 39:29.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[39:30.560 --> 39:32.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: And there's really no protection for them.
[39:32.740 --> 39:33.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm just, you know...
[39:33.580 --> 39:33.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[39:33.700 --> 39:36.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: It wouldn't be fair to them to get, like, billed back in case...
[39:36.600 --> 39:37.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it just makes sense.
[39:37.680 --> 39:41.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you're billing something to a third number, they should ask somebody's permission before you do it.
[39:41.500 --> 39:47.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right, because, you know, I've dialed and billed to a third number, and I was wondering...
[39:47.700 --> 39:50.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: I got my bill and said, I was wondering where the call was.
[39:50.960 --> 39:52.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then, you know...
[39:52.520 --> 39:54.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then it must have been a wrong number.
[39:54.860 --> 39:54.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[39:54.980 --> 39:59.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you never have to pay for anything like that, so if people do get those kind of charges, they can always get them removed.
[39:59.680 --> 40:01.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Listen, sir, we have to move on to some more calls.
[40:01.460 --> 40:01.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, then.
[40:02.100 --> 40:02.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thanks very much for calling.
[40:02.960 --> 40:03.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you.
[40:04.100 --> 40:05.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Most interesting comments there.
[40:05.780 --> 40:08.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Our telephone number is 212-279-3400.
[40:08.540 --> 40:09.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: The program is off the hook.
[40:09.760 --> 40:10.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're here till 10.
[40:10.740 --> 40:11.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening.
[40:11.940 --> 40:12.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[40:13.460 --> 40:16.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: I have a basic question about Star 69.
[40:16.180 --> 40:25.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: But first, just to add to the previous gentleman's comment about mostly homeless people stuffing payphones to block the coin from returning.
[40:26.060 --> 40:32.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: I saw the most extreme example of that in the 59th Street, Lexington Avenue subway station.
[40:34.640 --> 40:39.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: My coin was stuffed, you know, and there was paper in there.
[40:39.220 --> 40:47.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I now carry a hanger on me, like what these homeless people have, that will quickly, a quick hook, got to get it to the right size, that will quickly unjam it.
[40:47.880 --> 40:54.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because I've used payphones so often, I've encountered so many jammed payphones, it was cost-effective for me to carry this hanger on me in my pocket.
[40:54.900 --> 40:59.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're going to have a tough time explaining that if a telephone company security person sees you doing that.
[40:59.460 --> 41:01.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: If he sees me doing it, I'm simply going to tell him the truth.
[41:03.360 --> 41:10.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, I'm sure, if I were actually arrested, of course, first of all, I'm not breaking into the coin machine, okay?
[41:10.820 --> 41:14.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm just putting a hanger in there to take out the piece of paper.
[41:14.640 --> 41:18.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is where all kinds of ironic things happen every day, so you know it's bound to happen to you.
[41:18.400 --> 41:20.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Just out of irony, you know it's bound to happen.
[41:22.300 --> 41:23.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: It could.
[41:23.740 --> 41:24.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: It could happen.
[41:24.840 --> 41:28.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: But if I was arrested, I would plead innocent, and I'm sure I would win the case.
[41:28.640 --> 41:31.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Eventually, after about six months, you probably would.
[41:31.260 --> 41:35.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: You take the jury out and examine hundreds of phones, and they'll see how many are jammed.
[41:35.460 --> 41:35.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[41:36.020 --> 41:36.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay?
[41:36.720 --> 41:42.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, as to the question, was I one of the people who was jamming it and now collecting my money?
[41:42.560 --> 41:43.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know?
[41:43.320 --> 41:43.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[41:43.700 --> 41:45.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Some of these guys are really slick operators.
[41:45.700 --> 41:51.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, they come by at regular timings to see how much money has been stuffed up there in the last hour.
[41:51.360 --> 41:53.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I had the most extreme example of that.
[41:53.420 --> 41:59.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: In the 59th Street subway station, I encountered a jammed coin machine, and you know, I felt the paper.
[41:59.600 --> 42:03.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Usually, it's like, it could be a napkin, a stuffed wet napkin.
[42:03.980 --> 42:09.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Seems to be the most common instrument these homeless people use to stuff the coin machine.
[42:09.640 --> 42:09.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay?
[42:10.100 --> 42:11.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, I finally unjammed it.
[42:12.080 --> 42:13.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: I felt it with my finger, and I jammed it.
[42:13.540 --> 42:16.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then I noticed my finger has ink all over it.
[42:17.280 --> 42:19.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then, I mean, I just didn't look.
[42:19.160 --> 42:20.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: I sort of felt it.
[42:20.120 --> 42:24.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then I see the entire inside of the coin return is filled with ink.
[42:24.700 --> 42:31.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I waited, and sure enough, a very dirty-looking vagrant was walking around.
[42:31.920 --> 42:37.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: He came by there, and his hands, before he put his hands in there, his hands were all covered in this ink.
[42:38.400 --> 42:41.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I realized, and I confronted the guy, okay?
[42:41.700 --> 42:42.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the guy was ready to fight me.
[42:43.080 --> 42:47.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: He wouldn't let me go near the coin machine to try to get back other coins, okay?
[42:47.500 --> 42:57.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: I realized this guy used, like, sort of a skunk technique, besides putting in the paper, because evidently, he realized that some people are willing to pull the paper out of they have hooks, other people have hooks like me.
[42:57.740 --> 43:04.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: He added ink now, to sort of, like, scare a person off from putting their hand in there.
[43:04.420 --> 43:05.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: You see what I mean?
[43:05.260 --> 43:06.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it's interesting.
[43:06.060 --> 43:07.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it's like what a skunk would do.
[43:08.140 --> 43:09.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, it's a...
[43:10.120 --> 43:10.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you know...
[43:10.740 --> 43:12.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: I thought it was very ingenious.
[43:12.400 --> 43:19.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's interesting, but I would not advise getting too involved in becoming, like, a vigilante or anything like that to protect the payphones.
[43:19.260 --> 43:19.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: They are...
[43:19.820 --> 43:26.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: The phone company's payphones, and it's up to them to figure out how to resolve this problem, but, yeah, you're definitely right noticing it.
[43:27.300 --> 43:28.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think you would agree.
[43:28.360 --> 43:35.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: The phone company doesn't really care that much about resolving a problem that is only hurting the user of the phone, but not hurting them.
[43:36.060 --> 43:36.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[43:36.440 --> 43:36.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay?
[43:36.800 --> 43:37.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're not losing...
[43:37.580 --> 43:40.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, the coin's only coming back because you got a busy signal.
[43:41.640 --> 43:46.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Or, usually, if the machine's broke, then the coin was going to stay in there anyway.
[43:46.700 --> 43:47.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's another example.
[43:47.380 --> 43:52.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: A broken machine that eats your coins up even when you don't get a busy signal or whatever.
[43:52.500 --> 44:03.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: See, I think people are best off finding services where they don't have to use coins because it's a notoriously, you know, bad way of making a phone call because things break down, you lose money, and it's expensive, too.
[44:04.020 --> 44:05.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: 25 cents for a local call is expensive.
[44:06.020 --> 44:06.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: But it's also quicker.
[44:07.200 --> 44:14.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, do I want to spend a minute connecting up with another intermediary operator to dial for a 25-cent local call?
[44:14.960 --> 44:19.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Actually, I've gotten to the point where I can make a call faster that way than I can putting a coin in a phone.
[44:19.740 --> 44:20.140]  Faster?
[44:20.140 --> 44:20.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[44:20.980 --> 44:30.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: You dial your access number, you dial your code, your number is ringing almost instantly, whereas you have to put in a quarter, dial the number, and it takes about the same amount of time to connect.
[44:30.260 --> 44:33.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, are you talking about a service that bills the phone call to your home number?
[44:33.780 --> 44:37.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, to your home number or to an account that you have at your home, yes.
[44:38.340 --> 44:38.900]  Oh, okay.
[44:38.980 --> 44:48.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, maybe I'll look into that because I've lost so much money, but all around, I will say, I probably have gotten back enough money, including other people's coins.
[44:48.180 --> 44:51.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, I've literally had $5 in quarters fall out.
[44:51.640 --> 44:56.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's sort of like a Las Vegas slot machine after, you know, pulling out the tissue paper.
[44:56.320 --> 44:56.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[44:56.620 --> 44:56.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay?
[44:57.000 --> 45:03.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: So all around, but very few people are diligent like me who carry around a hook with them to do this.
[45:03.460 --> 45:06.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, are you diligent enough to return the money to the phone company?
[45:06.320 --> 45:13.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: I should, but like I said, all around, I estimate that I'm going about even, which shows you how many coins I still lose.
[45:13.240 --> 45:13.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[45:13.540 --> 45:13.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay?
[45:14.500 --> 45:20.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Of course, if it's jammed up, I almost always unjam it, but I still lose a lot of coins due to broken phones.
[45:20.600 --> 45:22.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Like, you know, and I don't think, would you agree with me?
[45:22.880 --> 45:28.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think the phone company puts a high priority on fixing things that don't cost them money.
[45:28.320 --> 45:32.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, no, they, especially during the NYNEX strike a couple of years ago, it was notorious.
[45:32.920 --> 45:33.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was terrible.
[45:33.660 --> 45:37.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: They weren't fixing anything, and it took months after the strike was over for them to even get around to things.
[45:38.260 --> 45:39.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, yeah, I do agree with that point.
[45:39.420 --> 45:48.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did you know, during that strike, I would estimate that about one-fourth of the payphones in the city, okay, you could dial a phone call free.
[45:48.800 --> 45:53.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: They split, I think one of the three or four wires in the handle was spliced.
[45:53.680 --> 45:56.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think it was the white or the red wire, whichever one it is.
[45:56.860 --> 46:00.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you did better than me, then, because I noticed that four out of five phones weren't working at all.
[46:00.680 --> 46:01.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it just got a very upset.
[46:01.420 --> 46:04.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: About one out of four, you can make a free local phone call.
[46:04.340 --> 46:06.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Usually, you had to put the quarter in.
[46:06.620 --> 46:09.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sometimes it would work free without putting any money in.
[46:09.860 --> 46:16.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: But a lot of them, you would put your quarter in, speak on the phone, and it took about five to ten seconds after you hang up.
[46:17.040 --> 46:19.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: The phone would make like a clicking sound, like...
[46:19.180 --> 46:19.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[46:20.300 --> 46:21.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then the coin would come back.
[46:22.140 --> 46:23.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sometimes it took ten seconds.
[46:23.800 --> 46:25.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I encountered that number of times.
[46:25.660 --> 46:27.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know who was doing it.
[46:27.300 --> 46:28.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know if it was the strikers or whatever.
[46:28.740 --> 46:29.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: I assumed it was.
[46:29.920 --> 46:32.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: But my last quick question about Star 69.
[46:33.240 --> 46:33.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, make it quick.
[46:33.800 --> 46:34.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[46:35.080 --> 46:37.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: First, does it work on payphones?
[46:37.520 --> 46:38.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, it does not.
[46:38.340 --> 46:39.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's not supposed to, anyway.
[46:39.460 --> 46:41.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sure it could be programmed to work on payphones.
[46:41.760 --> 46:42.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: But I've been trying that.
[46:43.320 --> 46:46.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: It would be a great thing if it did, because then it would be making phone calls for nothing.
[46:47.160 --> 46:49.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: But for obvious reasons, that would not work.
[46:49.700 --> 46:51.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: It will work back to a payphone.
[46:51.520 --> 46:52.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you call...
[46:52.420 --> 46:53.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: I imagine this will work.
[46:53.540 --> 46:58.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you call from a payphone to a number that can star 69, they should be able to star 69 you back.
[46:58.800 --> 46:59.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's what I mean.
[46:59.760 --> 47:04.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because I've been getting a harassing phone call at the same time, only on weekdays.
[47:05.000 --> 47:08.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I assume this person is calling as they're leaving work.
[47:08.920 --> 47:11.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe at a bus stop or a train stop.
[47:11.720 --> 47:13.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because it only happens at a quarter after 11.
[47:13.940 --> 47:14.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Are they?
[47:14.380 --> 47:14.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: P .M.
[47:14.520 --> 47:14.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: at night.
[47:15.060 --> 47:16.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: And only on weekdays.
[47:16.240 --> 47:17.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Are they in the same...
[47:17.040 --> 47:23.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: So this is what I'm saying, I assume, person's calling from the same payphone, either going to work or coming from work.
[47:23.520 --> 47:23.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[47:23.840 --> 47:25.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: Are they in the same area as you?
[47:26.940 --> 47:28.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know yet.
[47:28.200 --> 47:28.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: But I've tried...
[47:28.960 --> 47:29.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Of course, I'm in the Bronx.
[47:30.220 --> 47:31.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: So star 69 wouldn't work anyway.
[47:32.080 --> 47:32.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, it's not working yet.
[47:32.920 --> 47:34.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: But what I'm saying is they're in New York.
[47:34.800 --> 47:37.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're in sort of the Manhattan area or...
[47:37.880 --> 47:38.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, yes.
[47:38.520 --> 47:43.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: The person, the personal person also in the Bronx.
[47:43.970 --> 47:47.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, then it would work once you do get star 69.
[47:47.510 --> 47:48.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: You would be able to do that.
[47:48.630 --> 47:58.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right, because even if I don't, you know, even if I would figure I would call a half hour later and hopefully somebody would pick the phone up eventually and I'd find out what corner this place is on.
[47:58.930 --> 48:00.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'd wait for the guy the next day.
[48:00.530 --> 48:00.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[48:00.990 --> 48:02.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it sounds like you've got your work cut out for you.
[48:02.790 --> 48:05.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thanks very much for sharing all these experiences with us.
[48:05.310 --> 48:07.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're going to go on to another phone call there.
[48:07.370 --> 48:10.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's sort of street justice of the payphone world.
[48:10.810 --> 48:11.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Fascinating.
[48:11.610 --> 48:12.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening.
[48:12.750 --> 48:13.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, good evening, everyone.
[48:14.630 --> 48:19.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Emmanuel, I think there's a great future in making a film about a payphone.
[48:21.250 --> 48:26.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, I also wanted to bring out, in a way, there's an attitude on WBAI.
[48:27.130 --> 48:30.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Armand DeMille was talking about psychopaths and all kinds of paths.
[48:31.110 --> 48:33.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm a WBAI obsessopath.
[48:34.090 --> 48:45.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: But the point is this, that there's an attitude that criticism, if a person offers criticism, that, like, that person is, there's something wrong with that person.
[48:45.150 --> 48:47.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, that person is an unhappy person.
[48:47.710 --> 48:58.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: And yet, you are actually critical, and I'm critical, and the next person's critical, and necessity is the mother of invention is based on a criticalness.
[48:58.830 --> 49:04.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: And there's literary criticism, there's film criticism, there's art criticism.
[49:04.250 --> 49:14.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I throw it to the audience of listeners, and I just was viewing the city from the 44th floor of an apartment building.
[49:14.250 --> 49:17.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's an enormous city we live in.
[49:17.110 --> 49:19.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think we lose track of it.
[49:19.670 --> 49:26.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we're so much to the ground that we lose track of the dimensions of the city.
[49:26.050 --> 49:29.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, the point I want to make is that there are an awful lot of people here.
[49:30.290 --> 49:38.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: And WBAI is a place where there's freedom of speech and diversity of thinking and so on and so forth.
[49:38.710 --> 50:03.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: And for ideas like that, that criticism is a dangerous and a defective part of the human personality to be expressed on WBAI, which they can do, but, I mean, at least I can come forth and say, look, everyone, you better start being critical of WBAI, because even WBAI may be guilty of things like not putting events into the radio highlights.
[50:03.530 --> 50:09.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: The radio highlights are on the same page with Dear Abby, the chest notes, TV listings.
[50:09.970 --> 50:11.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, this is information.
[50:11.810 --> 50:16.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: If information doesn't get out, then WBAI is not known about.
[50:16.150 --> 50:31.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I say to you that the WBAI should, just as we're concerned about the phone industry and what's going on, and we all should have lower rates, so, too, about WBAI and even the selection of the Pacifica people and the selection of the local board.
[50:32.150 --> 50:35.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is not something that the listeners who subscribe will give money.
[50:35.570 --> 50:37.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: We should be more than just money givers.
[50:38.110 --> 50:40.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, thanks an awful lot, and continue on.
[50:42.510 --> 50:43.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, okay.
[50:44.110 --> 50:47.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sorry, I had to take care of some things outside in the hallway.
[50:47.330 --> 50:48.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: I just got back in time.
[50:49.490 --> 50:51.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, so, yes, hopefully that was very entertaining.
[50:53.030 --> 50:54.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-279-3400.
[50:55.330 --> 51:00.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: And now that we've had our speech of the day, let's go on to another phone call.
[51:00.430 --> 51:01.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening.
[51:01.710 --> 51:02.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello.
[51:02.490 --> 51:03.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is Emmanuel.
[51:03.550 --> 51:03.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[51:03.770 --> 51:04.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, hi.
[51:05.310 --> 51:06.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: I wanted to...
[51:06.630 --> 51:11.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is a lot about payphones tonight, but I just wanted to relate an experience I have.
[51:11.530 --> 51:15.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I went into Saks Fifth Avenue and used a payphone.
[51:15.010 --> 51:16.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't pay attention, you know.
[51:16.650 --> 51:21.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: I thought it was a regular, I guess, New York Telephone payphone.
[51:21.790 --> 51:22.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[51:22.150 --> 51:24.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: But then I lost my quarter.
[51:24.410 --> 51:24.690]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-oh.
[51:25.070 --> 51:30.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I began to realize that, you know, I couldn't get through.
[51:31.250 --> 51:39.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: So what happened was I tried to, I noticed on the bottom, it said, if you lost your quarter, call this number.
[51:39.690 --> 51:41.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: And so I did that.
[51:41.710 --> 51:44.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: But then they said they were only open up to 430.
[51:44.930 --> 51:45.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[51:45.350 --> 51:49.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it was a quarter to, by that time, it was about a quarter to five.
[51:49.250 --> 51:54.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: So they said, I should leave my name and phone number, my address, something like that.
[51:55.110 --> 51:55.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[51:55.330 --> 51:59.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I was wondering, and then they said, give the number of the phone.
[51:59.310 --> 52:03.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: And then I was looking and I saw that there was like a bank of about five or six phones.
[52:03.370 --> 52:06.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: And then someone had written the numbers in ink.
[52:06.970 --> 52:07.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[52:07.430 --> 52:08.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: At the bottom.
[52:08.330 --> 52:10.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: So I think that one was 247.
[52:10.350 --> 52:11.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: So I gave that number.
[52:11.490 --> 52:16.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: But what do you think my chances, this happened about a week ago, of getting that quarter back?
[52:16.670 --> 52:23.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I think what you'll probably wind up getting is either, you'll probably get a quarter taped to a piece of paper in the mail.
[52:23.050 --> 52:25.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: Or you'll get stamps or something crazy like that.
[52:25.410 --> 52:29.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: But if you don't get anything, all those phones are required to have addresses as well as phone numbers.
[52:30.050 --> 52:30.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: I see.
[52:30.670 --> 52:35.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: So if they don't respond within a reasonable amount of time, then you can report them, certainly.
[52:35.810 --> 52:36.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[52:36.470 --> 52:39.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: And feel free to charge them an extra quarter for your time.
[52:39.610 --> 52:39.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: I know.
[52:40.250 --> 52:41.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's the best way to feel better about that.
[52:41.690 --> 52:42.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, I'll do that.
[52:42.530 --> 52:43.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, good luck.
[52:43.430 --> 52:43.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bye.
[52:44.230 --> 52:45.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: In search of a quarter.
[52:45.510 --> 52:47.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it's something.
[52:47.170 --> 52:48.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's important, you know.
[52:48.190 --> 52:53.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: But you've got to be careful these days when you put foreign objects into payphones.
[52:54.550 --> 52:55.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening.
[52:56.190 --> 52:58.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I have a bit of information and a question.
[52:58.870 --> 52:59.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[53:00.650 --> 53:02.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: The book Terminal Compromise?
[53:02.830 --> 53:03.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[53:03.170 --> 53:04.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, you have information on that.
[53:04.170 --> 53:04.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: Great.
[53:04.430 --> 53:08.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: The name of the publisher is Interpact Press.
[53:08.890 --> 53:11.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's two words, inter and pact.
[53:11.570 --> 53:12.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, where are they located?
[53:13.090 --> 53:14.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, well, let me look here.
[53:20.490 --> 53:21.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Published by...
[53:21.290 --> 53:22.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see, there's no address here.
[53:23.510 --> 53:24.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: It doesn't have a city or anything?
[53:27.310 --> 53:30.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: Like New York or Los Angeles or Chicago?
[53:31.450 --> 53:31.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: No.
[53:32.130 --> 53:32.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[53:32.930 --> 53:33.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, and...
[53:33.430 --> 53:35.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: People have to find that themselves, I guess.
[53:35.510 --> 53:41.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: The question, I wonder if you know what 480 does...
[53:41.630 --> 53:42.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, boy.
[53:42.570 --> 53:44.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: Are you in 516 by any chance?
[53:44.370 --> 53:44.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[53:44.810 --> 53:45.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, boy.
[53:45.870 --> 53:46.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: Did you dial that?
[53:47.010 --> 53:47.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I did.
[53:48.190 --> 53:50.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: It basically disables the phone.
[53:50.250 --> 53:50.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, yes.
[53:51.130 --> 53:51.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: For about...
[53:51.850 --> 53:53.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it's a fun number to dial.
[53:54.410 --> 53:55.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: What part of Long Island are you in?
[53:56.230 --> 53:56.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Nassau County.
[53:57.010 --> 53:57.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: Nassau County.
[53:57.710 --> 53:57.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[53:58.230 --> 54:00.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: 480 and sometimes 450 work out there.
[54:01.310 --> 54:06.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: And what you do is you dial those numbers and it effectively shuts off your phone.
[54:06.230 --> 54:07.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: You pick it up, you hear absolutely nothing.
[54:07.950 --> 54:10.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: You hang up, wait a few seconds, pick it up again, hear absolutely nothing.
[54:11.210 --> 54:16.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's a great way to scare people, especially if you tell them to call you at this number and they call you and their phone goes dead.
[54:16.550 --> 54:22.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the beautiful thing about it is every time you pick up the phone to see if it's working yet, it resets it.
[54:22.270 --> 54:27.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: So you have to wait, I'd say, about at least two minutes before you can get your phone back.
[54:27.170 --> 54:29.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: And if you pick up the phone within that two minutes, you've got to wait another two minutes.
[54:29.950 --> 54:32.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: But if you don't know that, you could be doing this for hours.
[54:34.230 --> 54:36.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's used by the phone company for all kinds of tests.
[54:36.890 --> 54:38.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, that's what all those things are for.
[54:38.330 --> 54:43.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Also, any prefix with numbers beginning with 99 as the suffix.
[54:44.350 --> 54:49.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: For instance, 279-9901, 279-9902.
[54:49.550 --> 54:53.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Everything 99XX is used by the phone company for something.
[54:53.530 --> 54:55.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that's at least in New York State.
[54:55.030 --> 54:56.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm not certain about New Jersey and Connecticut.
[54:58.270 --> 55:05.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: The regular white pages will list all the prefixes within, you know, certain counties.
[55:06.130 --> 55:15.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I found that all that they, all that's actually listed there is residential prefixes and not business.
[55:16.410 --> 55:24.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know if there's a directory of some kind that lists the, you know, what prefixes, I guess, business lines?
[55:24.570 --> 55:28.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: There aren't very many exchanges that are only used by businesses.
[55:28.610 --> 55:32.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, sometimes a corporation will buy an exchange and it will only be used for them.
[55:34.150 --> 55:36.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I see what you're trying to get.
[55:36.130 --> 55:39.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're trying to get exchanges that are used for those purposes.
[55:40.390 --> 55:42.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know of such an exchange.
[55:42.470 --> 55:46.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: The best I could direct you to is a Kohl's directory, which is a reverse phone book.
[55:46.490 --> 55:52.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: And they have every exchange listed, and you might be able to find some things in there that are not listed in the phone book.
[55:52.950 --> 55:55.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: And they might be able to give you some insight as far as that goes.
[55:55.450 --> 56:06.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: But failing that, I would say the best way is just to look at all the empty ones, get a list of all the ones the phone company tells you about, and then just see what all the other ones they don't tell you about do, all the potential exchanges.
[56:06.790 --> 56:08.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: You'll find some very interesting things.
[56:08.530 --> 56:08.830]  All right.
[56:09.210 --> 56:09.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, thank you.
[56:10.090 --> 56:10.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[56:10.490 --> 56:11.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, bye.
[56:11.030 --> 56:13.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's not illegal to do that either, folks.
[56:13.270 --> 56:17.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's perfectly okay to dial a number to see where it goes.
[56:18.550 --> 56:22.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you constantly dial a number and you're harassing somebody, that's called harassment.
[56:22.910 --> 56:28.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: But exploring on the phone system might be frowned upon, but you're not breaking any laws.
[56:28.950 --> 56:29.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening.
[56:29.910 --> 56:30.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hello.
[56:30.470 --> 56:30.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: How you doing?
[56:31.190 --> 56:31.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[56:32.130 --> 56:32.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're on the air.
[56:33.590 --> 56:33.990]  Hello?
[56:34.270 --> 56:35.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, you're on the air.
[56:37.030 --> 56:37.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh.
[56:41.030 --> 56:41.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello?
[56:41.570 --> 56:41.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello.
[56:42.110 --> 56:42.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[56:42.630 --> 56:42.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi.
[56:43.190 --> 56:44.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: I have a couple of comments.
[56:45.210 --> 56:45.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[56:45.810 --> 56:51.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: The first concern, star 69, which I'm very concerned about and I'm glad that you were talking about.
[56:51.950 --> 57:07.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: I had the following idea, namely to have something like an answering service, which you would call after you called a number that didn't answer, that you didn't want to have star 69U back.
[57:07.790 --> 57:15.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you would tell that answering service, now a calling service, to call that number that you had called.
[57:15.670 --> 57:24.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they would then call the number so that now there would be a different number that the person you had called would star 69.
[57:24.550 --> 57:26.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it would just be this answering service.
[57:26.930 --> 57:27.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[57:27.250 --> 57:28.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can do things like that.
[57:28.750 --> 57:37.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: Using call forwarding, using answering services, you can spliff the system and make the wrong number be star 69U back.
[57:37.750 --> 57:42.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: Some advanced people can even make it so that... and we'll be detailing this in our next issue.
[57:42.550 --> 57:46.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can even make it so that when somebody star 6-9s you, they get themselves.
[57:47.430 --> 57:49.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that would be very good.
[57:49.150 --> 57:50.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's the ultimate, yes.
[57:50.590 --> 57:51.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, that would be very good.
[57:52.170 --> 57:56.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: I had another question concerning wire maintenance charges.
[57:56.930 --> 58:08.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: If one calls the phone company and asks to not have one's wire maintained by them anymore, what are the chances that they will come out and remove your wire and you will then have to rewire?
[58:09.190 --> 58:12.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're not going to go inside your wall, tear down your wall, and take away the wire.
[58:12.670 --> 58:13.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're not going to do that.
[58:14.210 --> 58:14.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[58:14.670 --> 58:25.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: The only thing wire maintenance charge you'll lose by not having that is if something inside your wall breaks for whatever reason, and I don't know of any case where that's happened, they won't fix it.
[58:25.230 --> 58:30.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: But the odds of something like that happening and of getting them to come out and figure it all out are very slim.
[58:30.590 --> 58:30.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[58:30.990 --> 58:32.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's really not worth it.
[58:32.110 --> 58:35.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's a fairly low charge, but I've never known it to pay off.
[58:36.210 --> 58:36.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[58:36.710 --> 58:38.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, I think it's definitely worth getting rid of it.
[58:38.610 --> 58:45.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: The only thing that stops me is the fear that they'll actually send somebody out who'll go around collecting all the wire.
[58:45.610 --> 58:47.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, if they do, all you have to do...
[58:47.670 --> 58:47.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Have to rewire.
[58:48.290 --> 58:49.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: All you have to do is...
[58:49.830 --> 58:55.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: There's a point where it comes into your house or apartment, and all you have to do is run a wire from that point to someplace else.
[58:56.130 --> 59:01.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: But you wouldn't have to do that because you'd have to grant them entry into your apartment and there's no reason for you to do that.
[59:01.450 --> 59:01.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[59:02.110 --> 59:09.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: My third question is that I remember when I was a child, there was a number that one could call that...
[59:09.890 --> 59:13.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: and then hang up, and it would then call one's phone back.
[59:14.710 --> 59:18.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's different depending on where you are in the city, in the country.
[59:19.070 --> 59:23.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Most places, it's 660, followed by the last four digits of your phone number.
[59:24.030 --> 59:28.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: You get a dial tone, you pick up, hang up, and it should ring you back at that point.
[59:28.530 --> 59:30.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: There's variations on that using different exchanges.
[59:31.230 --> 59:38.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: I know 660 is used for some things in the city, and a lot of us are trying to figure out exactly how it's used, but it's more complicated than we think.
[59:39.510 --> 59:39.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[59:39.930 --> 59:48.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: And my final question has to do with your putting these people on the phone whom you call up, these hapless operators?
[59:48.150 --> 59:49.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hapless operators, yes.
[59:49.750 --> 59:51.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure that's a nice thing to do.
[59:52.110 --> 01:00:00.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I mean, it wouldn't be a nice thing to do if we were teasing them and making fun of them and things like that, but really all we're doing is, you know, having them do their job.
[01:00:00.270 --> 01:00:07.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we're not identifying them as particular people, but merely as faceless workers in a huge, massive system.
[01:00:07.690 --> 01:00:10.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's still an invasion of their privacy.
[01:00:11.230 --> 01:00:11.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: You think so?
[01:00:12.450 --> 01:00:12.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: What?
[01:00:12.890 --> 01:00:14.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: You think it's an invasion of their privacy?
[01:00:14.450 --> 01:00:15.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely.
[01:00:15.550 --> 01:00:18.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: What makes it that, just because lots of us are listening?
[01:00:18.110 --> 01:00:21.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're assuming that they're having a private conversation with you.
[01:00:21.810 --> 01:00:23.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I don't think they're assuming that.
[01:00:23.910 --> 01:00:25.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: For one thing, they can be listed in on...
[01:00:25.810 --> 01:00:27.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: Their supervisor might be listening in at any point.
[01:00:27.590 --> 01:00:27.590]  Exactly.
[01:00:27.630 --> 01:00:29.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: Their supervisor can tap into them at any moment.
[01:00:29.990 --> 01:00:32.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I think privacy is the last thing on their minds.
[01:00:33.150 --> 01:00:33.630]  Mm-hmm.
[01:00:33.890 --> 01:00:38.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: But unless they do something really silly or stupid, I think we should know if they do that.
[01:00:39.330 --> 01:00:43.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: Really, it's the only way for us to get information and to demonstrate things.
[01:00:43.770 --> 01:00:53.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you could have, which people sometimes do, just your side of the conversation in which you repeat the gist of what they've just said.
[01:00:53.470 --> 01:00:54.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, but that's no fun.
[01:00:55.510 --> 01:00:56.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
[01:00:56.710 --> 01:00:58.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think it's a little nicer.
[01:00:59.150 --> 01:01:00.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, yeah, I'll give you that.
[01:01:00.590 --> 01:01:00.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[01:01:01.150 --> 01:01:01.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks a lot.
[01:01:01.970 --> 01:01:02.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: I enjoy your show.
[01:01:03.070 --> 01:01:04.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[01:01:04.270 --> 01:01:04.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, bye.
[01:01:04.950 --> 01:01:07.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's going to just about do it for us here tonight.
[01:01:14.360 --> 01:01:16.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, the program is Off the Hook.
[01:01:16.380 --> 01:01:17.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[01:01:17.940 --> 01:01:19.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show.
[01:01:19.680 --> 01:01:25.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: We'll be back again next week with our expose on cellular calls and all kinds of other fun, exciting things.
[01:01:25.660 --> 01:01:30.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Till then, stay aware, stay awake, and explore your telephone.
[01:01:30.940 --> 01:01:31.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's worth it.
[01:01:32.040 --> 01:01:32.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good night.
[01:01:45.580 --> 01:01:48.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Everybody is safer in an Orthodox Christian society.
[01:01:48.620 --> 01:01:50.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're all safer with Christian religion.
[01:01:50.780 --> 01:01:55.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: We are now in the process of restoring Christian family value systems to the government.
[01:01:55.700 --> 01:01:58.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the battleground is here at the abortion clinics.
[01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:01.840]  [SPEAKER_19]: These people are trying to take away your right to control your own body.
[01:02:02.060 --> 01:02:02.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: Don't let them.
[01:02:02.940 --> 01:02:05.800]  [SPEAKER_19]: In July, during the Democratic National Convention...