that as the smoke detectors are incinerated,
that they will be released directly into the environment.
Well, there's another problem that has surfaced within the last few years,
and that is the presence of radon gas.
It turns out that in the Northeast, there are many underground deposits of uranium ore.
Uranium ore that is perhaps too poor to be mined commercially,
but nonetheless, radium ore.
It turns out that several hundred years ago,
uranium miners or pitchblend miners in the area of Bohemia
used to come down with something called mountain sickness.
Scientists hundreds of years ago did not know what mountain sickness was,
but it was definitely linked to workers who worked underground in pitchblend mines.
Well, pitchblend mines are now called uranium mines,
and mountain sickness is now called lung cancer.
And what caused lung cancer was radon gas, which seeps out of uranium deposits.
It's an inert gas.
That is, even a gas mask with activated charcoal
will not be able to screen out radioactive radon gas.
The problem is that radioactive radon gas will seep right into the basement of your home.
It will go right through microscopic cracks that you can't even see.
And again, activated charcoal will do nothing to stop radon gas because it's an inert gas.
That is, it does not react chemically with any known substance.
As a consequence, what I highly advise you to do is to get a professional to,
first of all, see whether or not there is radioactive radon gas in your home.
And second of all, if there is, get a fan, a fan to blow out that radiation
because of the fact that your children may play for many hours in the basement,
and that is very dangerous.
We first found out about the grave dangers of radon gas
when an atomic worker at a nuclear power plant went right through some of the radiation detectors
and, of course, set off all the alarms.
At first, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission thought that this worker was indeed carrying fission products
left over from the breakdown of uranium inside a nuclear power plant.
However, when they found no fission products in his body, they suspected radon gas.
And sure enough, in the basement of his home, large quantities of radon gas were, in fact, found.
And as a consequence, the Environmental Protection Agency has basically issued an alert.
That is, there may now be literally millions of homes, especially in the Northeast,
that lie atop uranium ore deposits, releasing large quantities of radon gas,
especially into the basement, even when there's no visible crack.
So I would highly advise you to think twice.
If you have a basement in a suburban home and you can listen to this broadcast,
be serious about this, especially if your children play in the basement of your home
because children, of course, have cells that are constantly growing.
Because they are constantly growing, they are directly vulnerable to radiation,
which in turn can induce genetic damage, if not cancer.
So I would advise you to get a professional to check out your home.
And if you find you have radon gas, then, of course, the option there is to vent that radon gas
directly into the environment by getting a fan.
Well, we're slowly running out of time, but let me profile one more thing,
and that is nuclear medicine in the hospital.
It turns out that a lot of the nuclear waste being generated from the hospital
is due to the fact that doctors inject radioactive tracers into the body
in order to trace the migration of certain chemicals.
Now, again, I would use the same rule of thumb.
Sometimes this is life-threatening.
That is, you have a situation where it's suspected that a person has a brain tumor,
and one way in which to detect a brain tumor
is to inject radioactive chemicals directly into the body,
and some of these chemicals will indeed concentrate in brain tumors,
and then it's very easy to get a brain scan,
and a brain scan will immediately pick up a clump of radioactive materials,
which we then suspect is a brain tumor.
However, in general, I would try to limit the amount of radioactive materials injected into your body.
First of all, MRI scans, even though they're very expensive,
are much more effective than brain scans.
In fact, you can even get a picture of the brain tumor directly from an MRI scan,
and at present, physicists do not believe that MRI scans are dangerous,
while radioactive chemicals have been directly linked
to all sorts of different kinds of illnesses over the last several decades.
So, once again, the rule of thumb is, if it's life-threatening,
then by all means, seriously give the consideration
to have radioactive materials injected in the body.
However, if there are alternatives,
for example, MRI scans instead of radioactive brain scans,
or if it's mainly for cosmetic reasons,
or reasons that are not life-threatening,
then once again, think twice before having large amounts
of radioactive materials injected in the body.
Well, unfortunately, that's it for exploration.
This is Dr. Michio Kaku, Professor of Theoretical Physics
at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York,
inviting you to join us next week
when we talk about the recent, rather spectacular discovery
of our satellites, which show the remnants of the Big Bang,
that is, the creation of the universe itself.
Next week, we'll be talking about the creation of the universe,
as well as the possibility of intelligent life in the heavens.
This is Dr. Michio Kaku for Radio WBAI and Exploration.
Good evening.
And at 9.01, this is WBAI New York,
where next in store is Emanuel Goldstein's Off the Hook.
First, the message.
Are you ready?
Yeah!
On Sunday, June the 28th,
Mayor Sharp James of Newark
will be our guest on Emanations.
He will be discussing the upcoming Democratic Convention
and other important issues.
That's Sunday, June 28th at 9 p.m.
on Emanations with the Collective, 99.5 at home.
And this is WBAI New York.
It's time now for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing
So I ripped it off the wall
I cut myself while shaving
Now I can't make a call
It couldn't get much worse
But if they could, they would
Bum-diddly-bum
But the best, expect the worst
I hope that's understood
Bum-diddly-bum!
Let's go!
Bye-bye
And a very good evening to one and all.
The program is off the hook.
This is Emanuel Goldstein,
and we're here every Wednesday night at about this time,
from 9 o'clock until 10 o'clock,
talking about high technology and low intelligence
and various other fun things like that.
We've been talking about the future rate increase of New York Telephone
over the past few weeks.
We've been talking about Star 6-9.
We have more details on that and more signs of things to come.
Stay with us.
We'll be taking your phone calls, too, at 212-279-3400.
And next week we have a very special program,
which we'll detail in the minutes ahead
and let you know what you have to look forward to.
First, some interesting news from around the world.
This, off the Associated Press,
an intruder erased information on about 17,000 supporters of Ross Perot.
Actually, that's kind of unclear the way that's phrased.
He erased information on a computer.
The information was about 17,000 supporters,
basically a database.
According to his Virginia headquarters,
the non-presidential candidates, Virginia headquarters,
they have copies of the files destroyed in the weekend incident.
The data included the names, addresses, telephone numbers,
and notes on about 17,000 Perot supporters in Virginia.
According to Mark Adams, state petition coordinator for Virginians for Perot,
it's not a political act as far as I'm concerned.
I don't feel threatened by anything of that nature.
So that's a rather interesting development.
Now, according to some commentary that has been appearing on the Internet about this,
there were actually several reassuring things about the Perot incident,
writes Steve Bellavin in the Risks Digest.
First, they did have backups.
Not only that, the backups were stored off-site.
And second, the spokesperson said that they didn't store sensitive information on that machine
because too many people had access to it.
And finally, he implied that the level of computer security wasn't that high
precisely because anyone from anyone else's campaign
could have walked in off the street and achieved a position of trust.
In other words, don't worry about your technical security measures
if your other protections, including personnel screening, don't match up.
Security is as strong as the weakest link, as we all know.
And according to a local radio station in Virginia,
the Perot office had been staffed over the weekend with untrained and unsupervised volunteers.
The broadcast drew no conclusions from this statement,
but it strongly suggested that the problem may have been the result of an innocent mistake
in a poorly organized activity.
So that's a bit of fun from the election world involving computers and things like that.
Meanwhile, up in Canada,
Bell Canada is scrambling to repair a computer error
that allows some Ottawa payphones to dispense free phone sex services.
The error has been giving callers easy access for months
to graphic recordings of simulated kinky sex.
Callers have also been able to speak to women
whose job is to fulfill sexual fantasies by talking dirty.
Amazing.
Bell officials weren't aware of the glitch in the system
until an Ottawa Citizen reporter told them of it.
Phone sex clients certainly weren't going to call Bell
and tell us they were getting this for free,
said official Lynn Franquire.
She could not say why.
Bell hadn't detected the error,
which has affected payphones in Ottawa's West End
and in the nearby community of Nipien.
Nor could she say how much money
Bell and the phone sex companies have lost
or how long the error has existed.
Many West End high school students
have known about this for months.
At Woodruff High School,
where three payphones allowed the no-charge calls,
several teenagers said they knew of the free dial-up porn
since late 1990.
It's perverted, said a 16-year-old male in grade 10
who asked not to be identified.
And here's an anonymous bit
that was contributed to the Internet
over the past couple of weeks.
And if you think that things are bad here,
well, it's always a possibility
for things to get worse someplace else.
This person writes,
More seriously, however,
are some of the technology-related considerations.
The building in which I work
has a number of outside lines on a rotary.
The alarm system, when triggered, however,
notifies the security firm on a fixed line.
A high-tech criminal could simply
have that line disconnected,
and we would never know
since the other lines on the exchange
would still work.
So never underestimate the power of ignorance here
to really mess things up big time.
Okay, we have been talking about
various technological advances.
Actually, there's one thing
I'd like to demonstrate first
before we get into our little lecture
about caller ID and star 6ix9ine
and the other evils.
I hope people have been experimenting with that
because we are going to be talking about that
one more time this week.
But there is one other thing
I would kind of like to show people,
to show people how unjust and cruel
the world can be sometimes.
Okay, let's see if we can
get a dial tone out there.
Oh, there's one. Beautiful.
Now we're going to try and access
an operator.
One of those amazing people
that can do anything
and tell us anything.
Mr. Thomas, do I have a telephone?
Yes, hello.
I need a long-distance company, please.
Thank you.
I wonder which one I'll get.
One moment for a long-distance operator
who can assist you.
Well, let's hope the connection
is better than that.
Well, those tones bring back memories.
Cable and wireless may help you.
Cable and wireless.
Okay.
I was wondering if you could tell me
the cost for a call
to overseas information.
Okay, which country, sir?
This would be for England.
One moment.
You have to type quite a bit
to get that, don't you?
Unfortunately, yeah.
If you make your call right now,
it will be 535 for the first three minutes.
Okay, that's 535 for a call to England.
Is that correct?
Well, let's see.
More realistically,
it would be about one minute, so...
Well, it's just giving me
the three-minute rate, sir.
It's 535 for the first three minutes.
It's probably just a flat 535.
Okay.
If you go over three minutes,
then it'll be 60 cents
each additional minute.
Okay, fine.
Thank you very much.
Do you know the number, sir?
Not yet, no.
Okay.
I have the number if you need it.
The number for what?
The Director of Assistance
for the United Kingdom.
Is there a direct dial number
I can call?
Yes, sir.
Oh, what's that number?
Okay, you dial 011-44-819-863-611.
Really?
And that's information?
For the entire United Kingdom.
Does every country have a number like that?
Well, actually,
the United Kingdom is the only one
that you can dial direct.
Just about all of the countries,
you have to go through
the United States operator
and have them connect.
But the United Kingdom
does have a direct dial number.
I see.
Can you give me that number
one more time?
Yes, sir.
That's 011-44-81-9863-611.
Okay.
And if you need any country
other than England,
if it's within the United Kingdom,
they'll transfer you
at that number.
If it's within the United Kingdom.
Okay, great.
All right, thank you very much.
Thank you for using cable
and wireless.
Bye-bye.
Well, that was certainly a revelation.
That was not at all
what I was planning on doing here.
I had no idea
there was a direct dialable number
for information overseas.
I was expecting to get AT&T
like we always do.
For some reason,
we went to a different company
this time.
But I'm going to outsmart them
and get AT&T anyway
because the whole point
of what I was trying to prove
will be lost
if I don't do that.
Let's see if we have
an outside line.
Okay.
What I'll do now
is call an 800 number
that will guarantee
that I get AT&T.
That is assuming
it goes through
in the first place.
Please dial 1 plus 718
and the number you wish.
This is a recording.
I don't want to call 718.
I don't know why that came on.
Let's try it one more time.
All right, we have our dial tone.
And let's see if we actually
we made it this time.
Thank you for calling AT&T.
If your phone is touchtone,
please choose
from the following options.
If you're calling
regarding the AT&T
Universal MasterCard
or Visa credit card,
press 1.
For dialing...
What kind of a connection is this?
...in placing an AT&T call,
press 2.
If you're calling
regarding your AT&T calling card
or any other purpose,
press 3.
I think we want to press 2.
Let's try it.
If you have dialed 0
plus the area code
and number
and did not hear
AT&T,
please hang up
and dial
1-0-AT-T-0
plus the area code
and number you are calling.
If you have already
if you have already attempted
to dial 1-0-AT-T-0
plus the area code
and the number
and did not hear
AT&T,
press 1.
I'm going to press 1
because I want to talk
to a human.
AT&T,
please dial the number
you are calling
or 0 for an operator
now.
I dialed 0 for an operator.
Can I help you?
Yes, hi.
Is this AT&T?
Yes, it is.
I was wondering
if you could tell me something.
I need to know
how much it costs
to call overseas information.
Overseas information?
Yes.
It's $3
plus the extra information.
$3 a call.
Now,
can you also tell me
the cost
to call England
at night?
Oh,
this is a terrible connection.
To what country, sir?
This will be England.
Hello?
Yes,
can you hear me?
Hello?
Hello?
Yes,
can you hear me?
Oh,
this is terrible.
Are you there?
Yes, I'm here.
We have a very bad connection
for some reason.
What was the last question you had?
I wanted to know
what the basic cost is
to call England at night.
Okay,
one moment.
Thank you.
How will you be paying
for the call?
This would be directly dialed.
Okay,
one moment.
Dialing direct
from 6 p.m.
to 7 a.m.?
Yes.
It's 98 cents
for the first minute,
60 cents plus tax
each additional minute.
And what's the most expensive rate?
Most expensive
is from 7 a.m.
to 1 p.m.,
which is $1.44
for the first minute.
94 cents plus tax
each additional minute.
So it's actually cheaper
to call somebody
than to call information.
Right.
So,
theoretically,
I could call somebody
a total stranger
and just ask them
to open up the phone book
and give me the number
that I want
and it would be cheaper
than calling information.
So,
that's the rule.
No,
it's an interesting thought.
I just came up with that.
Right.
Okay,
well,
thank you very much
for your help.
You're welcome.
All right.
That was the point
I was trying to make.
The point is that
AT&T has gone
completely insane
and they are charging
now more than
the cost for a call.
Now,
imagine this.
You call somebody
at random in England
or any country in the world
because the rates
are pretty similar
no matter where you go.
And after the initial confusion
of what it is
that you want
and getting over
language barriers
and things like that,
let's say three minutes
go by
and then you're able
to get the thought across
that you want
somebody to open up
a phone book
and give you a number
in their particular country.
Well,
let's see.
We add that up.
We have 98 cents
plus two more minutes
is $1.20.
So,
that's about $2.18 there.
Well,
let's add in another minute
just for the fun of it.
And we still have less.
A four-minute call
to a total stranger
is less than
a one-minute call
to information.
Where is the sense in this?
You tell me.
I have no idea.
That's where our long-distance
phone companies
are going these days.
Okay,
now back to the topic at hand
which is the rather ominous
trend in telecommunications
these days
to have complete accountability
for everything that you do
on your telephone.
I'm speaking mostly
of Star 6-9
which is making inroads
on Long Island.
A good portion of Long Island
now has Star 6-9
and it's caught most people
by surprise.
I confirmed it this week.
I talked to a
New York Telephone representative
at quite some length
and I thoroughly
confused her I think
and I asked her
point blank
how do you block
Star 6-9
and for those of you
that don't know
what it is
Star 6-9
is a service
where you can call back
the last person
who called you.
Not necessarily
the last person
you spoke to.
If somebody calls
your phone
and it rings
a couple of times
and then they hang up
you can pick up
your phone
at Star 6-9
and call them
right back.
Now their phone number
will appear
on your local itemization
if you have local itemization
and if it's outside
of your local zone
which I don't know
if it works yet
outside the local zone
but if it is
it will show up
on your regular phone bill.
Now I asked
the service representative
well how do you block this
because this is a form
of caller ID
I mean it's not called
caller ID
but it is the same thing
because you're calling
somebody and they can find
out what your phone number is.
It might not be
on a screen
it might be through
a phone bill
it might be just
by calling you up
and somehow getting
your phone number
out of you
all kinds of ways.
It's a form though
of identifying the people
that are calling you
and that's what
I call caller ID.
So I asked the
service representative
how do you turn this off
how do you stop this
from happening
and she went away
for about five
maybe six minutes
searching around
to find out the answer
to that.
At first she said
star 8-9
but it turns out
that star 8-9
all that does
is stop star 6-9
from continuously
retrying somebody
for instance
if you star 6-9
someone and they're busy
you can keep calling them
for I think
up to a half an hour
until their phone
is not busy anymore
and you can disable that
by dialing star 8-9
however
that was not
what I was asking
I was asking
how do you call somebody
and not
have them
call you back
and she said
there's no way
to do that
now
I feel like
we've been
betrayed in some way
because
I recall
the conversations
about caller ID
as that was being
debated
and a very important
concern
was privacy
was keeping
your phone number
private
was making sure
that people
don't get your number
and cannot call you back
and here we have
this feature
this star 6-9
all of a sudden
shows up out of nowhere
and there's no way
to stop it
no way at all
now there are ways
to defeat it
but they involve
things like going
to pay phones
using long distance
companies
calling collect
being sneaky
and doing all kinds
of other creative
things
and we're going
to be printing
some tricks
in our next issue
of 2600
but people
should not have
to resort
to that kind
of a thing
I'd like to know
what people's views
are
if they had
a decision
to make
if they were asked
point blank
do you want
these features
yes or no
would you want them
do you want a way
to block your number
and how do you feel
now that apparently
there is no way
to do this
and if the phone
company has its way
there never will be
all right
our telephone
number is
212-279-3400
if you have
any comments
on this
or anything else
before we go
to the phones
I'd just like
to mention
what we'll be
doing next week
we've been
talking about
the privacy
of cellular phone
calls for quite
some time
and we've had
some people
supply us
with demonstrations
as to how
insecure cellular
phone calls
really are
next week
I think
you'll be
astounded
at what
we found
out
boy I
sound like
I sound
like Geraldo Rivera
but no
it's it's
really something
it's it's
shocking
it's amazing
it's it's
terrible
it'll make
you well
get a second
radio because
you might
break your
first one
when you
hear these
things
and get
your congressman's
phone number
so you can
be prepared
to write to
them and
comment to
them as to
how insecure
and wide
open cellular
phone conversations
are and if
you're thinking
of getting a
cellular phone
you'll want
to hear this
program that's
next week at
this time
all right let's
go to the
phones 212-279-3400
good evening you're
on off the hook
yeah Emmanuel
yes
oh my interest
is a little
different from
your current
discussion I
some time ago
you had a
gentleman who
wrote a book
called terminal
connection
okay
I've been trying
to locate that
along with risk
magazine and I've
been unable to
what was the
name of the
book terminal
connection oh
terminal compromise
terminal compromise
yeah that's
Winn Schwartow
he's I don't
know the
publisher's name
but I know
he's in Tennessee
and you might
find him that
way I'm not
sure exactly how
you would how
you'd find the
publisher of that
book but it is
called terminal
compromise and we
interviewed him a
couple months ago
and your other
question was risk
magazine risks
digest yeah risk
digest is on the
internet do you
have internet
access yeah well
it's either you
you get it through
a business or you
get it through a
university or you
subscribe to some
kind of public
access system all
of which are not
that hard to do and
when we find out more
information on things
like that of course
we broadcast it here
but what I what I
advise people to do
is it's actually
worth it to take a
single course at a
university spend
maybe a hundred
dollars or something
and get access that
way get a you know
get an internet
account that will
provide you access
to the entire world
literally thousands of
newsletters and and
the risks digest is
called comp dot risk
c-o-m-p dot r-i-s-k-s
and you would simply go
to the news section of
whatever system you're
on and and read it
that way or have it
sent directly to you
but I think people
should try aggressively to
get involved in that
because there's a lot of
information being passed
around and it shouldn't
it shouldn't just be for
an elite few it should
be for everybody
on your episode with
the cell phone scanning
you can't get the
complete conversation
because it's switching
from cell to cell
well I think what
you'll find is that
you can get a good
percentage of it for
instance it's switching
from cell to cell
because people are
moving around right
if people are not
moving around say
caught in a traffic jam
or say just in their
homes for some reason
people like to use
cellular phones you
know when they visit
people or when they're
in restaurants and
things like that you
can you can catch
pretty much the whole
thing and even as
even a portion of a
conversation well your
conversation should not
be listened to by
anybody yet I can tell
you right now that
cellular phone calls are
being listened to all
the time oh I'm sure
that's interesting and
the only thing supposedly
protecting you is a law
saying it's not legal to
do that which is the
most absurd thing in the
world first of all how
can you tell somebody
that they can't listen to
the radio right second
of all how can you use
that as the only means of
protection of a phone
conversation it's beyond
me why don't they
encode it because that
would cost the cellular
phone companies money and
they don't want to spend on
new technology and things
like that they'd rather
give you a false sense of
security by saying that
this conversation is
protected by a law it's
absurd and the only time
it's going to change is
when people get angry and
say something to their
representatives okay thank
you all right thanks for
calling bye yeah this
cellular thing has sort of
been growing in me for a
while I'm starting to get
upset because I can see
maybe 10 years from now I
might actually get a
cellular phone and I
certainly don't want
people listening in on me
good evening hi am I in
the air yes you are hi
how you doing what's on
your mind I'd like to talk
about the what was it the
technology of oh yes oh
you were dialing
international direct
directory right when you
dial I don't know if you
know this but when you
dial that 800 number
which 800 number is this
the call ATT number okay
you cannot they make it on
purpose so that you cannot
place any direct redial calls
in other words you have to
when when you use that
number you can only place a
call if it's correct or
going to a third number or
calling card right well that
is meant for that number is
sort of a substitute for zero
plus if you're at say one of
those weird pay phones where
you dial zero plus and you get
a strange company that
will gladly take your AT&T
calling card you can
bypass that since no pay
fund in its right mind will
not allow you to call an
800 number and then it'll
get billed by AT&T that's
the whole purpose of that
number uh-huh um and when
you mentioned the thing when
you were calling and you got
those tones those
those tones yeah that was
familiar yeah I recognize
them too because that's the
old analog uh dialing method
well actually in retrospect now
I realize that's cable and
wireless since we got
connected to them they
probably use the old system
that new york telephone and
AT&T used to use well
actually you know what I
think they do I think they
play the same tones every
time you make a phone call
I'm not if you want I have
a tape of 10 years ago when
I made an overseas call if
you want me to play it I
have it ready sure you want
me to play it uh as long as
you don't give away any vital
information that somebody
might not want you to give
away yeah go ahead hold on
and I'll play it right now
okay hold on then let me see
phones from the past always
playing little beeps and
buzzes here
we don't need the number
we're giving out okay
now you hear that yeah
those are mf tones and um
you see that's that was the
old AT&T system uh-huh you
see well now you will still
hear those tones on occasion
uh you do not use AT&T you
will but if you use AT&T you
will never hear those tones
on your telephone they do not
use I don't know if you know
what a dms-10 is a dms-10 a
northern telecom dms-10 and and
an AT&T 5ESS right I think you
might mean a dms-100 though um
well isn't that a toll switch uh
that's a dms-200 okay um well
right now is new york telephone I
think the only well they use
dms-10 5ESS and 1ESS which is
the old one right 60 I think I
don't know what that is and I've
always wanted to know what it was
that I was doing is that the
operator's circuits dialing as if
it was a touch-tone phone well
those are mf tones in fact that's
that's what an old blue box would
use um and mf tones are still used
in various ways for various things
it's just not as simple to uh to box
a call anymore at least uh not within
this country but it's still very
possible to do it uh in in various
ways tones are used different tones
are used uh it just requires a bit
more thought but those are those mf
tones that you hear are the blue
box tones as far as everyone else is
concerned I see yeah um bit of
history there if you've ever noticed
that the new digital switching it does
not click like your phone number has
the old electronic the 1ESS switch
uh-huh which is not digital which is an
analog and uh it's electronic but it's
not digital right it's electronic and
the new 5ESS and dms-10s are all
digital but there's a difference
between a 5ESS and a dms-10 and you
could tell because the 5ESS sometimes
it'll on the first ring give like half
a ring or a quarter of a ring and on
the dms-10 it gives a full ring all the
time and you're sure this never happens
with a 5ESS?
I've done phone experiments for the past
thing I've been in college uh uh and I've
done this since January playing around
fiddling and I've tried to start nine and
all and uh-huh what area are you in?
well I live in New York City but I go to
school up in uh Morrisville uh-huh uh up in
that area Morrisville that's middle of
nowhere isn't it?
that's in the middle of the state
yeah well I I know where it is actually
that's a very small campus right?
right yeah okay I've I've actually been
there
I have a GTE phone company and they're
very strange because if you've ever
noticed you can't dial zero plus I I like
in the 315 area code you cannot dial the
area code when you dial a number you dial
zero and then the number whereas here
you dial 0 718 or 212 and then the
number that's because you have area
codes as exchanges like you'd have a
212 315 3333 or whatever right there
they don't have that yet at least so
they don't need that you can't do that
on Long Island or Westchester either well
you don't have to dial a one first on
Long Island I know that well no no you
don't have to dial a one I'm talking
about dialing operator assistant calls I
see and there you can't make local
collect calls because they have a flat
rate but that's a different source well
you see that's GTE territory GTE
different rules seem to apply and it's
also it's it's weird because it's the
biggest phone company now in the country
GTE is a big company yes well it just
merged with with Contel so they they are
the biggest local company bigger than
9x even really because they took over
Contel right and you know I'm sure
things will change I also want to talk
about pay phones in the city I'm doing
messenger work and I find a lot that I
see I have to call my office and I
really find a lot that their pay phones
are like broken the homeless people
stuff like paper towels or tissues
into the coin returns and people should
listen to this because when they use a
pay phone they really should check the
stuff they obstruct the coin returns so
that when people's money come back like
when there's no answer or something
they'll just lose it and then I've seen
a person come back take a hanger and
just call on it just they would know
how to do it they just call on it get
them all the money every time I see
that I reported I always dial 611 and
people should do this too I always dial
611 and if you don't have the phone
number of a pay phone do you know 958
958 will give you the number most of the
time that's that's a useful thing
actually I mean well it's useful but
call cuts won't give you a number from
that you know the the other pay funds
won't give you a call cuts the well
right you can't do it on a call cut phone
some of them you can you could you have
to put a quarter in and sometimes to get
your money back
call cuts will block 958 most of the
time and you know 958 the phone and
try and get the number just dial 611 and
report it which is what I do
well wait do you wait until the person
takes all the money or do you push them
aside I'm saying okay this is what I do
I mean whenever I use a public phone I
always check it I just don't put a
quarter in and just dial a number always
check the coin return check the coin
release make sure there's a dollar but
you know because you know you don't want
to lose money because I've lost a lot of
money and pay funds and vandalized pay
funds and you know if the phone is
broken I always just edit you know out of
conscience I just dial 611 and get the
number and report it just because there's
an inconvenience is people a whole line
of people waiting for a phone because
the other one's broken yeah and they
there are a lot of broken phones I don't
want to use those coconut phones because
they're really unreliable I mean you
lose money in that too well it's a
cheaper technology it's it's sad because
the potential for those phones is is
great you know they could provide all
kinds of neat services you mean the
coconut phones yeah yeah instead they
rip people off yes but they are a
people I mean they can be programmed to
work like regular new telephone pay
phones and they should be they should
be programmed to be as as normal phone
as possible public service commission
and talked about that and things like
that yeah it's kind of hard to get
through to them though sometimes type of
telephones have you ever seen the type
of telephones that look like regular
desk phones I mean they're actually
pay phones they're big desk phones
that you put a quarter in yeah I've
seen those a lot of those in Europe
actually another number any other
number because those are really hooked
up to a regular phone line you see and
that's why the telephone company should
start calling for acceptance even on
regular non-calling phones because what
they'll do is on a regular phone like a
home phone or an office phone yeah they
won't that's very good point they won't
call for acceptance except if you're out
of payphone that is true they should
start calling because people could just
make fraudulent calls uh-huh a lot of
times though they are able to tell if
it's a private pay phone they can tell
no no but this is not a private pay
phone this is not private pay from the
cold cop phones which are the phones
that look like regular new york telephone
pay phones right this is a telephone
that you buy in a store for like two
hundred dollars I've seen them and then
you just plug them into your you can
have one in your house if you want I've
seen them in doctor's offices I've seen
them in restaurants and there's really
no protection for them I'm just you know
it wouldn't be fair to them to get like
billed back in case well it just makes
sense if you're billing something to a
third number they should they should
ask somebody's permission before you do
it right because you know I I've dialed
and billed to a third number and I was
wondering I got my bill and said I was
wondering where the call was and then
you know and then it must have been a
wrong number right well you never have
to pay for anything like that so people
do get those kind of charges they can
always get them removed listen sir we
have to move on to some more calls
okay then thanks very much for calling
most interesting comments there our
telephone number is 212-279-3400 the
program is off the hook we're here till
10 good evening yes I have a basic
question about star 69 but first just to
add to the previous gentleman's comment
about mostly homeless people stuffing
pay phones to block the coin from
returning I saw the most extreme example
of that in the 59th Street Lexington Avenue
subway station my coin was stuffed you
know and there was paper in there and I
now carry a hanger on me like what these
homeless people have that will quickly a
quick hook got to get it to the right
size that will quickly unjam it because
I use pay phones so often I've encountered
so many jammed pay phones it was cost
effective for me to carry this hanger on
me in my pocket you're gonna have a tough
time explaining that if a telephone
company security person sees you doing
that he sees me doing it I'm simply
gonna tell him the truth that I I mean
I'm sure in a court if I were actually
arrested of course first of all I'm not
breaking into the coin machine okay I'm
just yeah but this is New York City
hanger in there to take out the piece of
paper this is where all kinds of ironic
things happen every day so you know it's
bound to happen to you just out of
irony you know it's bound to happen
eventually after about six months you
probably would take the jury out and
examine hundreds of phones and they'll
see how many are jammed okay now so the
question was I was I one of the people
who would who was jamming it now
collecting my money you know some of
these guys are really slick operators I
mean they come by at regular timings to
see how much money has been stuffed up
there in the last hour well I had the
most extreme example of that in the
59th subway station I encountered a
jammed coin machine and you know I felt
the paper usually it's like it could be a
napkin a stuffed wet napkin seems to be
the most common instrument these
homeless people use to stuff the coin
machine okay so I finally unjammed it I
felt it with my finger and I jumped it
and then I noticed my finger has ink all
over it and then I mean I just didn't
look I sort of felt it and then I see
the entire inside of the coin return is
filled with ink well I waited and sure
enough a very dirty looking vagrant was
walking around he came out and his hands
before he put his hands in there his hands
were all covered in this ink and I
realized and I confronted the guy okay
and the guy was ready to fight me he
wouldn't let me go near the coin
machine to try to get back other coins
okay I realized this guy used like sort
of a skunk technique besides putting in
the paper because evidently he realized
that some people are willing to pull the
paper out of they have hooks other
people have hooks I mean he added ink now
to sort of like scare a person off from
putting their hand in there you see what
I mean yeah it's interesting it's like
what a skunk would do I mean it's a
well I thought it was very ingenious it's
interesting and but I would not advise
getting too involved in becoming like a
vigilante or anything like that to
protect the pay funds they are the phone
companies pay funds and it's up to them
to figure out how to how to resolve this
problem but yeah you're definitely right
noticing much that I think you would
agree the phone company doesn't really
care that much about resolving a problem
that is only hurting the user of the
phone but not hurting them okay they're
not losing I mean the coins only coming
that because you got a busy signal or
usually it's if the machines broke
then the coin was going to stay in there
anyway that's another example a broken
machine that eats your coins up even
when you don't get a busy signal or
whatever I think people are best off
finding services where they don't have
to use coins because it's a notoriously
you know bad way of making a phone
call because things break down you lose
money and it's expensive to 25 cents for
a local call is expensive but it's also
quicker you know do I want to spend a
minute connecting up with another
intermediary operator to dial for a 25
cent local call actually I've gotten to
the point where I can make a call faster
that way than I can putting a coin in a
phone faster yes you dial your access
number you dial your code your number is
ringing almost instantly whereas you have
to put in a quarter dial the number and
it takes about the same amount of time to
connect okay you're talking about a
service that bills the phone call to
your home number well to your home
number or to or to an account that you
have at your home yes okay well maybe
I'll look into that because I've lost
so much but all around I will say I
probably have gotten back enough money
including other people's coins I mean
I've literally had five dollars in
quarters fallout it's sort of like a
Las Vegas slot machine after you know
pulling out the tissue paper yeah okay
so all around but I've very few people
are diligent like me who carry around a
hook with them to do this well are you
diligent enough to return the money to
the phone company I should but uh like I
said all around I estimate that I'm
going about even which shows you how
many coins I still lose yeah okay of
course if it's jammed up I almost always
unjam it but I still lose a lot of coins
due to broken phones like you know and I
don't think would you agree with me I
don't think the phone company puts a
high priority on fixing things that
don't cost them money well no they
they especially during the 9x strike a
couple of years ago it was it was
notorious it was terrible they weren't
fixing anything and uh it took months
after the strike was over for them to
even get around to things so yeah I do
agree with that point did you know
during that strike I would estimate that
about one-fourth of the pay phones in
the city okay you could dial a phone
call free they split I think one of the
three or four wires in the handle was
spliced I think it was the white or the
red wire whichever one it is well you
did better than me then because I
noticed that four out of five funds
weren't working at all and it just got
a very upset you can make a free local
phone call usually you had to put the
quarter in sometimes sometimes it would
work free without putting any more in
but a lot of them you would put your
quarter in speak on the phone and if
about it took about five to ten seconds
after you hang up the phone would make
like a clicking sound like yeah and then
the coin would come back sometimes it took
ten seconds and I encountered that
number of times I you know I don't know
who was doing it I don't know if it was
the strikers or whatever I assumed it
was but uh my my last quick question
about star 69 yeah make it quick okay
first uh does it work on pay phones no
it does not that's not supposed to
anyway I'm sure it could be programmed to
work on pay phones uh but I've been
trying that uh it would be a great thing
if it did because I'd be making phone
calls for nothing uh but for obvious
reasons that would not work it will work
back to a pay phone if you call I
imagine this work if you call from a pay
phone to a number that can star 69 they
should be able to star 69 you back
well that's what I mean because I've
been getting a harassing phone call at
the same time only on weekdays and I
assume this person is calling as they're
leaving work meeting maybe at a bus stop
or a train stop are they happens at a
quarter after 11 are they at night and
only on weekdays are they in the same
assume person's calling at this from the
same pay the same pay phone either going
to work or coming from okay are they in
the same area as you is I don't know
yet but I've tried of course I'm in the
Bronx star 69 wouldn't work anyway no
it's not working yet but what I'm saying
is they're in New York they're in sort
of the Manhattan area or yes the person
the personal persons I suspect would be
living also in the Bronx okay then it
would work uh once you do get star 69
you would be able to do that right
because even if I don't you know even I
would figure I would call a half hour
later and hopefully somebody would pick
the phone up eventually and I'd find
out what corner this place is on I'd
wait for the guy the next day all right
well it sounds like you've got your your
work cut out for you thanks very much
for uh for sharing all these uh
experiences with us we're going to go on
to another phone call there yes uh so
the street justice of the pay phone
world fascinating good evening yeah good
evening everyone uh Emmanuel I think
there's a great future in making a film
about a pay phone anyway um I also
wanted to bring out um in a way uh
there's an attitude on WBAI Armand
DeMille was talking about psychopaths and
all kinds of paths uh you know I'm a
WBAI obsessor path but the point is
this that um there's there's an attitude
that criticism if a person offers
criticism that like that person is
there's something wrong with that
person that you know that person is an
unhappy person and yet you are actually
critical and I'm critical and the next
person's critical and necessity is the
mother of invention is based on a
criticalness and there's literary
criticism there's film criticism there's
uh art criticism so I throw it to the
the audience of uh listeners and I just
was viewing the city from uh the 44th floor
of a you know uh an apartment building and
it's it's an enormous city we live in I
don't I I think we lose track of it you
know we we that's just we're so much to the
ground that we lose track of the
dimensions of the city well the point I
want to make is that there are an awful
lot of people here and um WBAI is a place
where there's freedom of speech and uh and
diversity of thinking and so on and so
forth and for ideas like that that
criticism is a dangerous and a defective
part of the human personality to be
expressed on WBAI which they can do but I
mean at least I can come forth and say
look everyone uh you better start being
critical of WBAI because even WBAI may be
guilty of things like not putting uh events
into the radio highlights the radio
highlights are on the same page with
their abbey the chest notes uh tv listings
so I mean this is information if
information doesn't get out then WBAI is
not known about and I say to you that
the WBAI should uh just as we're
concerned about the phone industry and
and what's going on and we all should
have lower rates so too about WBAI and
even the selection of the Pacifica people
and the selection of the local board
this is not something that the
listeners who subscribe who give money
we should be more than just money
givers so thanks an awful lot and
continue on
oh okay sorry I had to uh take care of
some things outside in the hallway and
just got back in time uh okay so yes
hopefully that was very entertaining
uh 212-279-3400 and um now that uh
we've had our speech of the day let's
go on to another phone call good
evening
hello
hey Daniel
yes
oh hi um I wanted uh this is a lot
about pay phones tonight but I just
wanted to relate an experience I have
well I went into Saks Fifth Avenue and
used a pay phone I didn't pay attention
you know I thought it was a regular I
guess
uh New York telephone pay phone but then
I lost my quarter and I began to
realize that um you know I couldn't get
through uh so what happened was I tried
to um I noticed on the bottom it said if
you lost your quarter call this number
and so I I did that but then they said
they were only open up to 4 30 and I
had it was a quarter to by that time it
was about a quarter to five so they
said I should write leave my name and
phone number my address it's something
like that and uh I was wondering and
then they said give the number of the
phone and then I was looking and I saw
that there was like a bank of about
five or six phones and then someone had
written numbers in ink right at the
bottom so I think that one was two
four seven so I gave that number but
what do you think my chances this
happened about a week ago of getting
that quarterback well I think what
you'll probably wind up getting is uh
either uh you'll probably get a quarter
taped to a piece of paper in the mail
or you'll get stamps or something
crazy like that but if you don't get
anything all those phones are required
to have addresses as well as phone
numbers I see so if uh if they don't
respond within a reasonable amount of
time then you can report them
certainly okay and feel free to to
charge them an extra quarter for your
time that's that's why I feel better
all right I'll do that all right
good luck bye in search of a quarter
well it's uh it's something it's
important you know but uh you got to
be careful these days when you put
foreign objects into pay phones
good evening yeah um I have a bit of
information and a question okay um
the uh book terminal compromise yeah
oh you have information on that great
uh the name of the uh publisher is
inter packed press that's two words
inter and packed okay where are they
located oh uh let me look here
published by um let's see there's no
address here doesn't have a city or
anything
like new york or los angeles or chicago
no okay all right and um find that
themselves I guess the uh question I
wonder if you know what uh four eight
zero does uh oh boy are you in five one
six by any chance yes oh boy did you
dial that yes it uh basically disables
the phone oh yes for about uh well it's a
fun number to dial uh what what part of
long island are you in
nassau county nassau county okay four
eight oh and sometimes four five oh work
out there uh and what you do is you dial
those numbers and uh it effectively shuts
off your phone you pick it up you hear
absolutely nothing you hang up wait a
few seconds pick it up again hear
absolutely nothing it's a great way to uh
to to scare people especially if you
tell them to call you at this number and
they call you and their phone goes dead
and the the beautiful thing about it is
every time you pick up the phone to see
if it's working yet it resets it so you
have to wait I say about at least two
minutes before you can get your uh your
phone back and if you pick up the phone
within that two minutes you've got to
wait another two minutes but if you
don't know that you could be doing this
for hours um it's it's used by the phone
company for all kinds of tests you know
that's what all those things are for
also uh the uh any prefix with uh numbers
beginning with nine nine is the suffix
uh for instance uh two seven nine nine nine
oh one two seven nine nine nine oh two
everything nine nine xx uh is used by the
phone company for something and that's at
least in new york state I'm not certain
about new jersey and connecticut
the um regular white pages will uh will
list all the prefixes within um you know
certain counties but I found that all
that they um all that's actually listed
there is residential um prefixes and not
business you know if there's a directory
of some kind that lists the uh you know
what prefixes I guess well business
business lines there aren't there aren't
very many exchanges that are only used
by businesses I mean sometimes a
corporation will buy an exchange and it
will only be used for them uh and I see
what you're trying to get you're trying
to get uh exchanges that are used for
those purposes uh I don't know of such
an exchange the best I could direct you
to is a Kohl's directory which is a
reverse phone book and they have every
exchange listed and you might be able to
find some things in there that are not
listed in the phone book and they might
be able to give you some insight as far
as that goes but uh failing that I would
say the best way is just to uh to look at
all the empty ones uh get a list of all
the ones the phone company tells you
about and then just see what all the
other ones they don't tell you about do
all the potential exchanges you'll find
some very interesting things all right
okay thank you okay all right bye and
it's not illegal to do that either folks
it's perfectly okay to uh to dial a
number to see where it goes uh if you
constantly dial a number and you're
harassing somebody that's called
harassment but uh exploring on the
phone system might be frowned upon but
you're not breaking any laws good
evening hello how you doing all right
you're on the air hello yes you're on
the air oh you were on the air good
evening hello hello yes hi I have a
couple of comments okay the first
concern star 69 which I'm very
concerned about and I'm glad that you
were talking about I had the following
idea namely to have something like an
answering service which you would call
after you called a number that didn't
answer that you didn't want to have
star 69 you back and you would tell that
answering service now a calling service to
call that number that you had called and
they would then call the numbers so that
now there would be a different number
that the call the person you had called
would star 69 and it would just be this
answering service uh-huh you can do
things like that using call forwarding
using answering services uh you can
spoof the system and uh and make the
wrong number be star 69 back uh some
advanced people can even make it so
that uh and we'll be detailing this in
our next issue uh you can even make it so
that when somebody star 69's you they get
themselves and that's that would be very
good that's that's the ultimate yes
that would be very good um i had a
another question concerning wire
maintenance charges if one calls the
phone company and asks to not have one's
wire maintained by them anymore what are
the chances that they will come out and
remove your wire and you will then have
to rewire they're not going to go inside
your wall tear down your wall and take
away the wire they they're not going to
do that okay uh the only thing wire
maintenance charge uh you'll lose by not
having that is if something inside your
wall breaks for whatever reason i don't
know of any case where that's happened
uh they won't fix it but uh the odds of
something like that happening and of
getting them to come out and figure it
all out are very slim okay it's it's
really not worth it it's a fairly low
charge but uh i've never known it to
pay off right no i think it's definitely
worth getting rid of it the only thing
that stops me is the fear that they'll
actually send somebody out who'll go
around collecting all the wires well if
they do all you have to do all you have
to do is uh there's a point where it
comes into your house or apartment and
all you have to do is run a wire from
that point to someplace else but you
wouldn't have to do that because you
have to grant them entry into your
apartment and there's no reason for
you to do that okay my third question
is that i remember when i was a child
there was a number that one could call
that and then hang up and it would
then call one's phone back right it's
different for depending on where you are
in the city in the country most places
it's six six zero followed by the last
four digits of your phone number you get
a dial tone you pick up hang up and it
should ring you back at that point there's
variations on that using different
exchanges i know six six always used for
some things in the city and a lot of us
are trying to figure out exactly how
it's used but it's uh it's more
complicated than we think okay and my
final question has to do with you're
putting these people on the phone whom
you call up these hapless operators
hapless operators yes i'm not sure that's
a nice thing to do well i mean uh it
wouldn't be a nice thing to do if we
were if we were teasing them and making
fun of them and things like that but
really all we're doing is you know
having them do their job and uh we're
not identifying them as as particular
people but merely as faceless workers
in a in a huge massive system it's
still an invasion of their privacy you
think so what you think it's an
invasion of their privacy yeah
definitely what what makes it that
just uh because lots of us are
listening they're assuming that they're
having a private conversation with you
well and i don't think they're
assuming that for one thing they can
know that their supervisor might be
listening exactly their supervisor can
tap into them at any moment uh so i
think privacy is the last thing on
their minds but uh unless they do
something really silly or stupid i
think we should know if they do that
um really it's the only way for us to
get information and to and to
demonstrate things well you could have
which people sometimes do just your
side of the conversation in which you
repeat the gist of what they've just
said yeah but that's no fun that's
true but i think it's a little nicer
well yeah i'll give you that okay
thanks a lot i enjoy your show okay
thanks for calling okay bye that's
going to just about uh do it for us
here tonight
yes the program is off the hook this is
emmanuel goldstein stay tuned for the
personal computer show we'll be back
again next week with our expose on
cellular calls and all kinds of other
fun exciting things till then stay
aware stay awake and explore your
telephone it's worth it good night
everybody is safer in an orthodox
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process of restoring christian family
value systems to the government and the
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body don't let them in july during the
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