Off The Hook - 1992-07-29

[00:03.530 --> 00:05.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: Next week, by the way, I will not be here.
[00:05.670 --> 00:07.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: However, exploration will be on tape.
[00:07.730 --> 00:11.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: It is, of course, the 47th anniversary of Hiroshima and Nagasaki Day.
[00:12.050 --> 00:23.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: And be sure to contact New York Sane Freeze to get more information concerning their memorial of that event that's going to be taking place at the United Nations.
[00:23.750 --> 00:31.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: So call New York Sane Freeze concerning the 47th memorial of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
[00:31.910 --> 00:36.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is Dr. Michio Kaku for Radio WBAI-FM.
[00:36.170 --> 00:36.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good evening.
[00:51.930 --> 00:54.550]  [SPEAKER_01]: And this is WBAI New York.
[00:54.790 --> 00:58.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: Next up, Off the Hook with Emmanuel Goldstein.
[01:03.520 --> 01:05.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh yeah, budgie, go do it, babe.
[01:06.240 --> 01:10.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hey, vote for me and I'll set you free, for a modest percentage, of course.
[01:10.060 --> 01:16.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hey, everybody, this is Bernie Fleshkin, agent to the stars, inviting you to join us this Monday morning on WBAI's leftist political hits.
[01:17.080 --> 01:20.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we'll have a brand new episode of Bushwinkle and Danny the Flying Quail.
[01:20.620 --> 01:22.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, of course, plenty of rock and roll.
[01:23.320 --> 01:23.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, babe.
[01:24.240 --> 01:25.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: And calls from you.
[01:25.500 --> 01:29.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: So join us this Monday morning at 9.30 for some hot, radioactive stuff.
[01:30.840 --> 01:32.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hubba, hubba, who loves you, babe?
[01:32.980 --> 01:33.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: I do, you know that.
[01:34.160 --> 01:35.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Ciao, mucha, ciao.
[01:39.310 --> 01:41.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can't accuse us of not knowing how to have fun.
[01:41.650 --> 01:43.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: And here at WBAI New York, it's 9 o'clock.
[01:44.130 --> 01:45.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Time for Off the Hook.
[02:44.850 --> 02:46.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this is Off the Hook.
[02:46.310 --> 02:47.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: My name is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[02:47.770 --> 02:51.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're together for an hour, up until 10 o'clock.
[02:51.110 --> 02:59.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: We talk about, oh, high-tech, low intelligence, freedom of speech, repression of spirit, and all the other things that go along with life in the 90s.
[02:59.970 --> 03:08.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: And to kick it off tonight, I'd like to play a song that I just obtained, and I think it's really appropriate to the times in which we live.
[03:09.150 --> 03:11.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's by Attila the Stockbroker.
[03:44.240 --> 03:48.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, we're going to break in here because, for some reason, one of our CD players is only playing on one channel.
[03:48.880 --> 03:57.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: So while I definitely switch CD players, I'll get this to you in stereo.
[03:57.220 --> 03:59.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a song by Attila the Stockbroker.
[03:59.660 --> 04:06.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: It comes off the latest tribute to the Clash record, which we just got in.
[04:06.960 --> 04:10.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it should be coming up momentarily here on WBAI.
[04:10.560 --> 04:12.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we've got a lot of interesting things to talk about.
[04:12.200 --> 04:17.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be taking phone calls at 212-279-3400.
[05:13.780 --> 05:18.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: And every cell in Chile will tell the cries of the tortured men.
[05:18.740 --> 05:23.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Remember IND and the days before, before the RBK.
[05:23.960 --> 05:28.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Please remember Victor Jara in the Santiago Stadium.
[05:29.400 --> 05:31.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Las Verdas.
[05:31.700 --> 05:33.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Those Washington Bullets again.
[05:54.370 --> 05:59.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: And in the Bay of Pigs in 1961, a banner for the playboy in the Cuban sun.
[05:59.970 --> 06:02.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: But Castro is a colour that's a redder than red.
[06:02.370 --> 06:04.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: Those Washington Bullets want Castro dead.
[06:04.710 --> 06:06.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: Castro from the era.
[06:06.670 --> 06:09.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: When the colour of hope was red.
[06:17.690 --> 06:20.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mikhail stood proud through his ordeal.
[06:20.250 --> 06:22.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: The last defender of the great ideal.
[06:22.570 --> 06:24.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: He led his party towards the light.
[06:24.850 --> 06:27.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now he's stabbed in the back by left and right.
[06:27.410 --> 06:29.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: Washington smiles and by ease and cries.
[06:29.890 --> 06:32.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: Come on down Yeltsin, collect your prize.
[06:32.750 --> 06:34.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: New World Order.
[06:34.930 --> 06:37.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: As the dream of a new world dies.
[06:45.250 --> 06:47.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: Vietnam, Panama, desert storm.
[06:47.710 --> 06:49.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: Washington Bullets at acre and four.
[06:49.950 --> 06:52.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now there's no need for bullets, just threats and catch.
[06:52.450 --> 06:54.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: TV, dinners and video trash.
[06:54.770 --> 06:56.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's what the peasants want and it's what they'll get.
[06:57.230 --> 06:59.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh Mikhail, how they forget.
[06:59.350 --> 07:04.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: Off to market, without a safety net.
[07:12.440 --> 07:14.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bankers and pimps come out to play.
[07:15.200 --> 07:17.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now we're giving it all away.
[07:18.020 --> 07:19.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: New World Order.
[07:43.370 --> 07:54.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, one thing that we lack in this era, I think anyway, are some good songs that kind of tell you what's going on.
[07:54.330 --> 07:57.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Much like we had in the 60s and a little bit in the 70s.
[07:57.650 --> 08:04.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: But since then, I don't know, the socially conscious musicians seem to be kind of asleep on the job.
[08:04.410 --> 08:08.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hopefully, there'll be more music like that in the future.
[08:09.850 --> 08:14.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: That comes from Attila the Stockbroker, Washington Bullets' remake of the Clash songs.
[08:14.090 --> 08:15.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's called the New World Order Mix.
[08:15.650 --> 08:19.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it comes from the Clash Tribute, the never-ending story, part one.
[08:20.330 --> 08:24.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this is Off the Hook with Emmanuel Goldstein.
[08:24.490 --> 08:27.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're taking phone calls at 212-279-3400.
[08:27.690 --> 08:30.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I've got something that I'd like to share with everybody.
[08:30.990 --> 08:34.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: This just was posted over the Internet today.
[08:34.990 --> 08:41.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: It concerns freedom of speech on a very well-known computer network known as Genie.
[08:41.510 --> 08:44.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, we spend time talking about Prodigy, talking about America Online.
[08:44.850 --> 08:48.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Genie is one that we really haven't devoted very much attention to.
[08:48.930 --> 08:55.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: And perhaps it's about time that we did, especially when you hear some of the things that are allegedly going on.
[08:56.130 --> 09:03.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is something that is being passed around on the Internet by Michael Lepore.
[09:03.870 --> 09:08.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he has given permission to spread this around in whatever form possible.
[09:08.050 --> 09:11.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I guess the radio is one form of doing that.
[09:11.770 --> 09:16.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Something that we should all be concerned with, even if we do not have computers.
[09:16.210 --> 09:20.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because freedom of speech goes beyond our mere possessions.
[09:20.390 --> 09:27.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: If it's not allowed in one form, it one day will not be allowed in another and another.
[09:27.130 --> 09:27.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: And so it goes.
[09:29.150 --> 09:32.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is from a letter he wrote on July 28th.
[09:33.510 --> 09:38.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Genie, the online service owned by General Electric, has adopted new restrictions.
[09:39.670 --> 09:49.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: These include a new level of vigor in the practice of screening bulletin messages for content which is allegedly off-topic or offensive.
[09:50.790 --> 09:55.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: To be more precise, the majority of the areas of the network are not affected.
[09:55.830 --> 10:04.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the new practice was implemented in June of 1992 in Genie's Religion and Philosophy Roundtable.
[10:06.670 --> 10:11.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: If these restrictions were on the books prior to June, they were almost never enforced.
[10:12.370 --> 10:15.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Nearly all of Genie's customers oppose the new practice.
[10:15.230 --> 10:26.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the company appears to be foregoing flexibility toward customer demand in favor of repeated reminders to us that the company has the power to make and enforce rules.
[10:29.170 --> 10:44.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, the issue first came to this person's attention on July 17th, 1992, when Genie user Mark Dotson, using the nickname Doulos, participated in a theological debate in the Religion and Philosophy Bulletin Board.
[10:44.830 --> 10:47.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he has given his permission to publicly use his name.
[10:47.830 --> 10:51.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: His post was deleted by a system administrator.
[10:52.010 --> 11:00.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: In the Bulletin Board conversation, Mark had inquired whether another writer who had commented on the sacred text, the Quran, had read the Quran.
[11:02.430 --> 11:05.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: And what we're going to do now is a bit risky, I suppose.
[11:05.690 --> 11:12.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to read the message that this person posted that was deemed offensive and removed.
[11:13.190 --> 11:18.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Category 17, Topic 5, Message 607, Friday, July 17th, 1992.
[11:19.730 --> 11:23.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Posted at 9.14 Eastern Daylight Time in the evening.
[11:23.910 --> 11:25.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Address to Pac-Man.
[11:25.250 --> 11:27.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Pac-Man, did Peter say that he had read the Quran?
[11:28.210 --> 11:29.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: I know I asked him that earlier.
[11:29.770 --> 11:31.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: I must have missed something.
[11:31.570 --> 11:32.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Signed, Doulos.
[11:34.350 --> 11:38.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, as you can imagine, that message certainly caused quite a stir.
[11:38.770 --> 11:48.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: After the deletion of the message, Mark went to the feedback to the SysOp, or System Operator, Bulletin Board, Topic, and complained about the deletion.
[11:48.610 --> 11:52.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: And because he complained about the deletion, he was punished.
[11:53.210 --> 11:57.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: He was punished by being placed on a read-only status for three days.
[11:57.930 --> 12:02.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: That means he was able to read, but he was not able to write anything.
[12:03.170 --> 12:06.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: In other words, he had his mouth taped shut.
[12:10.910 --> 12:21.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, the management stated that the more severe penalty was warranted because Mark was one of the Bulletin Board users who had volunteered, unpaid, to do some Bulletin Board maintenance.
[12:22.070 --> 12:25.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he was thus designated as a Category Leader.
[12:25.430 --> 12:33.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: The management explained to all after the fact that it's improper for a Category Leader to complain publicly about Bulletin Board policies.
[12:35.330 --> 12:48.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's common for corporate managers and spokespersons to be restrained in their public remarks, but many customers believe that such a rule should not apply to a customer who has merely volunteered to do some Bulletin Board housecleaning.
[12:51.370 --> 13:04.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, upon hearing of Jeannie's manner of punishing this user, an electronic mail, known as Email Group, organized over the weekend of July 18th and 19th to oppose the new policy.
[13:04.850 --> 13:14.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: The email group was large enough that its members were the creators of 26.6% of all Bulletin Board messages, as indicated by a database scan.
[13:15.870 --> 13:21.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Even among the users who did not ask to join the email group, it is clear that the vast majority of them agree with it.
[13:24.110 --> 13:28.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: The customers are not the only people who have taken steps to unite.
[13:28.790 --> 13:32.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: The administrators of the Religion and Philosophy Roundtable united as well.
[13:33.170 --> 13:38.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Several of the administrators started to speak in a monolithic voice, even using the same wording.
[13:39.070 --> 13:42.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: That is, that Mark was supposedly wrong for going public.
[13:42.490 --> 13:44.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: And what happened to Mark is a private matter.
[13:46.010 --> 13:55.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: In my opinion, the way they speak with a single voice could make one wonder whether top-down instructions are telling the subordinates what they are required to believe.
[14:00.640 --> 14:08.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Here is a message that was written by this person to General Electric.
[14:08.720 --> 14:11.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Michael Lepore to the Genie Management.
[14:12.920 --> 14:17.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Dear Genie Management, This month I celebrate one year with Genie.
[14:17.720 --> 14:35.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: I came here from Prodigy in July of 1991 because of my strong dislike, and that's an understatement, of Prodigy's common practice of deleting Bulletin Board messages following a system operator's individual value judgments, that the messages are offensive or otherwise inappropriate.
[14:36.100 --> 14:52.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: I had thought Genie was completely different, until a perfectly harmless message by Mark Dotson was recently deleted from the Religion Roundtable, and when the message writer did little more than point out that he didn't do anything wrong, he was punished with a read-only status.
[14:54.140 --> 14:55.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: There are two kinds of businesses.
[14:57.220 --> 15:02.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: There are some companies that strive to give the customers what the customers want.
[15:03.520 --> 15:13.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: There are others which give the customers whatever the company wants to give them, and tells the customers, if you don't like it, go elsewhere.
[15:15.540 --> 15:17.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Which kind of company is GE?
[15:19.560 --> 15:22.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Please answer this question, not in words, but by your actions.
[15:22.940 --> 15:23.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Please do me a favor.
[15:24.100 --> 15:28.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't, quote, protect, unquote me, from the opinions of others.
[15:28.740 --> 15:31.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: I am more offended by this policy activity...
[15:31.200 --> 15:36.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry, by this police activity, than I am offended by the unacceptable opinions themselves.
[15:36.560 --> 15:41.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think the Religion Bulletin Board was a lot better before the management recently tried to improve it.
[15:42.080 --> 15:49.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: If a message is libelous, commits copyright infringement, or contains a threat, then there are practical and legal reasons for deleting it.
[15:49.360 --> 15:59.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: But when users X and Y are engaging in a debate about a controversial subject, I don't want the management suddenly popping in and charging that one individual has become offensive.
[16:01.480 --> 16:08.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: The very small possible advantage is outweighed by the more probable harm done to the open exchange of ideas.
[16:10.540 --> 16:17.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I know that the majority of the Bulletin Board users feel the way I do, but the question is, does Genie management care what its customers want?
[16:17.980 --> 16:20.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Please, let's have no more censorship.
[16:21.660 --> 16:22.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Signed, Mark Lepore.
[16:24.560 --> 16:35.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he got a reply to that letter from Laura Staley, who is the Genie product manager responsible for the Religion and Philosophy Roundtable.
[16:38.200 --> 16:42.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we'll read what she says, and we'll read his comments as well.
[16:43.480 --> 16:48.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Dear Mr. Lepore, the original situation in the Religion Roundtable was one that occurred over days and weeks.
[16:48.740 --> 16:51.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was not simply a perfectly harmless message by Mark Dotson.
[16:52.220 --> 16:55.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: What actually happened is not for public discussion.
[16:55.900 --> 16:59.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Your bulk mail letter regarding the situation was forwarded to Genie staff.
[17:00.080 --> 17:05.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: It broke the Genie policy regarding use of GE mail, which prohibits unsolicited mail.
[17:08.840 --> 17:14.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Further use of GE mail, which violates policy, could lead to the removal of your GE mail privileges.
[17:16.740 --> 17:26.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: There is a tendency among some ex-prodigy customers to view anything beyond very minimal maintenance, or any maintenance at all, as a full-scale assault on posting privileges.
[17:28.220 --> 17:31.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Genie sys-ops have the discretion to manage their boards within Genie policy.
[17:32.240 --> 17:35.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: The situation will be dealt with and resolved.
[17:37.220 --> 17:42.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Any more calls to action will be viewed as unwarranted against Genie's best interest and harassment of Genie staff.
[17:44.800 --> 17:47.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, not exactly a conciliatory reply, then, is that?
[17:49.270 --> 17:51.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: His comments concerning that.
[17:51.820 --> 17:56.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is my opinion that what she didn't say came across more loudly and clearly to me than what she did say.
[17:58.960 --> 18:06.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Note that the administrators are asserting that past discussion is relevant in determining whether a present bulletin board message is acceptable.
[18:06.200 --> 18:16.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: According to this thinking, if someone has been very argumentative in the past, then whatever he says in the present may be interpreted in a specific light.
[18:16.640 --> 18:24.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: For instance, suppose I insult you yesterday, and if I merely say good morning today, then this is another of my insults.
[18:25.480 --> 18:34.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: This illogical position makes it clear to most customers that the deletion of a bulletin board message was merely being used as a disciplinary measure.
[18:35.340 --> 18:44.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: And concerning that this is not for public discussion, whether or not what actually happened is not for public discussion is entirely outside of Ms. Staley's jurisdiction.
[18:45.360 --> 18:46.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: The First Amendment to the U.S.
[18:46.860 --> 18:50.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Constitution does not exist by the grace of the General Electric Company.
[18:52.750 --> 18:53.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, it just might.
[18:53.920 --> 18:54.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll have to check into that.
[18:54.900 --> 18:57.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: But last I checked, I don't think it did.
[18:58.230 --> 19:08.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: If a company treats a few of its customers with disrespect, then this is the concern of all of that company's customers because they know that they may be the next victims.
[19:08.860 --> 19:10.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Gosh, is this a microcosm or what?
[19:11.120 --> 19:21.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: All that we say here in this program about First Amendment violations coming from the government can also be applied in the corporate world.
[19:24.250 --> 19:26.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: And in some ways, that's a lot more scary.
[19:30.100 --> 19:37.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Concerning these comments, returning to them, rather, several decades ago, a religious...
[19:37.260 --> 19:39.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know why I'm reading all these words wrong.
[19:39.700 --> 19:40.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Courageous.
[19:40.530 --> 19:42.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Boy, there's something going on in the air tonight.
[19:42.460 --> 19:49.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Several decades ago, a courageous black lady named Rosa Parks made the news when she refused to give up her seat on a bus to a white man.
[19:49.420 --> 19:52.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: The result was a great civil rights movement.
[19:54.140 --> 20:05.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: I wonder what would have happened if we had accepted a ludicrous suggestion that the issue was a private matter between the bus company and Ms. Parks, and was therefore not for public discussion.
[20:06.340 --> 20:13.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's note that the resulting civil rights movement did not need to obtain the permission of the bus company before it could conduct public education.
[20:14.120 --> 20:21.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Similarly, the subscribers of computer networks do not need the permission of management of those services before they can conduct public education.
[20:28.660 --> 20:34.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ms. Staley warned me that users are only allowed to send email that has been solicited by prior email.
[20:34.660 --> 20:38.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: No mention was made of the three obvious points which immediately come to everyone's mind.
[20:39.490 --> 20:42.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: One, the rule against first use is self-contradictory.
[20:42.840 --> 20:47.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: The mere existence of an email conversation implies that someone must have been the first to send mail to the other.
[20:48.510 --> 20:51.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Therefore, the rule logically requires its own violation.
[20:52.180 --> 20:56.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: If the rule were obeyed in the past, an email conversation could never begin.
[20:56.860 --> 21:01.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: If the rule is obeyed in the future, all email users would vanish from the earth in one generation.
[21:02.940 --> 21:11.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Two, GNI provides a directory service for precisely that reason so you can enter the names of a person and find out their email addresses.
[21:12.120 --> 21:19.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: The existence of the directory would not be needed if merely replying to previous mail because the return address is given at the top of each note.
[21:22.030 --> 21:34.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: And three, the GNI administrators themselves send unsolicited email to the users almost on a daily basis to urge us to venture outside of BASIC and use pay-by-the-hour services.
[21:36.410 --> 21:48.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: These messages also give the user instructions for having the receipt of such messages discontinued, but the first message must be sent before the recipient can possibly have those instructions for discontinuance.
[21:49.250 --> 21:55.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Therefore, if the management's belief is that any first contact by mail is offensive, they sure have a funny way of showing it.
[21:59.810 --> 22:03.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the referral of G.E.
[22:03.710 --> 22:11.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: mail privileges asserts that it is merely a privilege, not a right, to use a service that one has paid for following the execution of a contract.
[22:19.760 --> 22:25.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Very disturbing a bit of news coming out of the electronic world.
[22:28.720 --> 22:34.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we'll be following this in the weeks to come.
[22:34.360 --> 22:42.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it is curious how this whole battle for freedom of speech is being fought on many different fronts.
[22:42.340 --> 22:47.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not just hackers against against government prosecutors that want to shut them up.
[22:48.420 --> 22:57.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's also your run-of-the-mill computer user being told what to say and what not to say on corporate-run systems.
[23:00.560 --> 23:14.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Seems to me you're kind of signing away some of your rights, though, as soon as you give General Electric the power to dictate what it is that you say and not say, how you conduct your computer time.
[23:18.250 --> 23:37.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you know of such instances or any kind of controversy currently going on in the electronic world, please write to us here at Off the Hook Care of WBAI 505 8th Avenue New York, New York 10018 As you know, there are quite a lot of battles going on.
[23:38.110 --> 23:44.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: We mentioned our own battle with Belcourt that is reaching various stages.
[23:44.630 --> 23:46.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: You might have seen a couple of pieces in the newspaper about that.
[23:46.830 --> 24:02.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: and to sum up basically Belcourt has threatened to sue us for printing information that we believe people have the right to know and that was given to us confidentially.
[24:04.610 --> 24:14.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: They cannot stop newspapers, magazines or press of any nature from disclosing information that is given to them.
[24:16.430 --> 24:23.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they know this yet they want to try and perhaps they will drag us through the courts and attempt to weaken us in that way.
[24:25.330 --> 24:38.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Judging from the reaction of listeners, readers, people on the computer networks, just your everyday person walking down the street, it's not going to be a very easy fight for them to wage.
[24:41.750 --> 24:46.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Of course we'll update everybody as that story progresses.
[24:47.530 --> 25:00.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right now it's at the stage where we've replied to them and told them that we have no intention of changing the way we report news either on this radio program or through 2600 magazine.
[25:02.330 --> 25:03.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a test.
[25:04.930 --> 25:08.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we'll have to see how we survive that test.
[25:10.050 --> 25:10.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[25:11.470 --> 25:13.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: We are going to take some phone calls now.
[25:15.610 --> 25:17.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212-279-3400.
[25:18.170 --> 25:19.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's our phone number.
[25:19.850 --> 25:32.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: And since we haven't talked to our listeners in quite some time for the majority of the program, we'll leave it open as far as the many things that have happened in the last few weeks since we've last had a chance to do this.
[25:32.630 --> 25:43.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: It could concern computer hacker raids, it could concern indictments, it could concern lawsuits, freedom of speech, curtailments, and the like, or something entirely different.
[25:43.810 --> 25:44.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's up to you.
[25:45.390 --> 25:45.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[25:46.490 --> 25:47.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hi, let me turn down my radio.
[25:47.690 --> 25:48.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hold on.
[25:48.230 --> 25:48.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[25:50.990 --> 25:52.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: I sure hope the radio's close to the phone.
[25:53.350 --> 25:54.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not in another room somewhere.
[25:54.890 --> 26:00.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Concerning what you were talking about, but it's some questions that I wrote down from the past couple of weeks.
[26:01.490 --> 26:05.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the first of them are, well, some comments actually.
[26:05.670 --> 26:15.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: First of all, I remember the last time I talked to you, you said that the cold cop phones cannot prevent you from dialing an 800 number.
[26:16.970 --> 26:18.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they're not supposed to.
[26:18.370 --> 26:20.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: They can do whatever they are programmed to do.
[26:20.950 --> 26:25.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've had one ask me for $9.95.
[26:25.510 --> 26:26.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Are you sure you didn't dial 900?
[26:27.230 --> 26:30.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, I definitely dialed 800 and $9.95.
[26:30.450 --> 26:30.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's wrong.
[26:31.130 --> 26:31.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[26:31.730 --> 26:32.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, those things happen.
[26:33.090 --> 26:41.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: It happens, and to be honest, I really doubt how much the Public Service Commission is capable of doing, because I've complained to them many times and nothing has changed.
[26:41.290 --> 26:42.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've tried also.
[26:43.650 --> 26:46.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: And do you know about those phone booths?
[26:46.450 --> 26:55.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Not phone booths, but they're like, you go into like the neighborhoods like Jackson Heights, where you'll see Telefono D'Internacionale.
[26:55.650 --> 27:07.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: They'll have like a store, store-like, and then in that store they'll have like sort of little rooms, little booths, with regular desk telephones that you can make international phone calls or something like that.
[27:07.390 --> 27:09.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's a common practice in many countries, actually.
[27:10.050 --> 27:11.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's kind of funny to see it happening here.
[27:11.390 --> 27:21.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: It also was common years ago here, but sometimes people are more comfortable paying a fee first and then just getting a phone and some privacy as well.
[27:21.610 --> 27:26.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I went into those phones and I was just free to go into the booth and make any phone call I want.
[27:26.210 --> 27:27.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: And what did they charge for that?
[27:27.610 --> 27:27.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Nothing.
[27:28.250 --> 27:28.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Nothing?
[27:28.950 --> 27:33.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Walked in, picked up the phone, dialed a long distance number and that's it.
[27:33.350 --> 27:33.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wait a minute.
[27:34.070 --> 27:36.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, even I know that that doesn't make much sense.
[27:37.830 --> 27:39.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Somebody has to be paying for that somehow.
[27:40.050 --> 27:40.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: They are.
[27:40.790 --> 27:52.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I even, you can, somebody can charge it, somebody could think that, well, I won't pay for this call, I'll just charge it to my home number and just, as I said, fraudulently bill it to any other number.
[27:53.150 --> 27:54.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm having trouble understanding what this is.
[27:54.830 --> 27:59.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is a place that you go into and you're supposed to, what are you supposed to do?
[28:00.430 --> 28:00.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[28:01.770 --> 28:04.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Aren't there rules posted on the window or something?
[28:04.290 --> 28:07.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, because I asked the lady, she didn't understand English.
[28:08.170 --> 28:12.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, this is definitely opening up some interesting possibilities here.
[28:12.830 --> 28:15.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: I go on Roosevelt Avenue on 8075.
[28:15.850 --> 28:21.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: So basically they allow you to walk into their offices, sit down at a phone, call anywhere in the world and then just walk out?
[28:21.650 --> 28:23.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: I, that's apparently so.
[28:24.030 --> 28:33.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I have a feeling that that's not going to be lasting too much longer, but I'll definitely ask people to check that out for me and get back to me and let me know what that's all about.
[28:34.170 --> 28:34.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: It would be nice.
[28:35.130 --> 28:37.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, imagine if you didn't have to pay anything for phone calls.
[28:37.650 --> 28:42.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: change the rules have I ever gone into chemical bank?
[28:42.230 --> 28:46.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have these phones called service line and chemical and manufactured handover.
[28:46.510 --> 28:50.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: They have these phones that you can call this 935-9935 number.
[28:50.930 --> 28:51.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's their service line.
[28:52.070 --> 28:53.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's their automated account information line.
[28:54.050 --> 28:56.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't pick up the phone and make any type of phone call I want.
[28:57.010 --> 28:58.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: I call it long distance.
[28:58.430 --> 28:59.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: You mean you pick it up and you get a dial tone?
[28:59.950 --> 29:01.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's a regular telephone.
[29:01.950 --> 29:03.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Regular desk telephone.
[29:03.610 --> 29:04.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[29:04.350 --> 29:08.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: You must have incredible luck because I can't find regular phones.
[29:09.090 --> 29:12.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Go into any chemical bank or manufacturer's handover bank.
[29:12.750 --> 29:15.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I know a chemical bank on Broadway and 8th Street.
[29:15.410 --> 29:17.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Go into it and there's a service point.
[29:17.270 --> 29:21.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a button in the wall and you press that and it dials something.
[29:21.850 --> 29:22.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: ATM.
[29:22.830 --> 29:25.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm talking about inside the bank where the service representative sits.
[29:26.530 --> 29:28.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: You mean there's a phone sitting right there?
[29:28.110 --> 29:31.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: I guess they figure that you won't have the Gall to make a fraudulent call right in front of them.
[29:32.010 --> 29:33.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I tried it.
[29:33.170 --> 29:33.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: You do though.
[29:34.050 --> 29:36.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: Not a fraudulent call, but I'm just saying a local call.
[29:36.730 --> 29:37.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just make a local call.
[29:38.850 --> 29:40.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: I could call long distance.
[29:40.410 --> 29:44.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just to try it, I just called long distance and I got through it.
[29:45.130 --> 29:49.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, some of them will block long distance, but there's no way of really blocking local.
[29:50.390 --> 29:55.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: There are ways of doing just about everything, but there's also ways to circumvent just about everything too.
[29:56.150 --> 29:56.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[29:56.990 --> 29:58.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll take you up on that.
[29:58.050 --> 30:01.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll go in and Of course, I guess I have to open an account at one of these banks.
[30:01.950 --> 30:02.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, phone.
[30:02.390 --> 30:05.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's called Service Line, and you can just pick it up and dial anything you want.
[30:05.290 --> 30:08.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, they block, like, 900 numbers and long distance and things like that.
[30:08.970 --> 30:11.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm wondering if you can just unplug the phone and walk away with it, too.
[30:11.330 --> 30:12.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, no, they're locked.
[30:12.290 --> 30:12.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're, like...
[30:12.810 --> 30:13.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: That they lock.
[30:13.750 --> 30:16.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: The $20 phone, they lock, but they leave the lines wide open.
[30:16.790 --> 30:16.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[30:17.090 --> 30:17.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: That makes a lot of sense.
[30:17.950 --> 30:19.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, thanks for sharing all that with us.
[30:19.410 --> 30:21.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just want to ask you what the 394 exchange is.
[30:22.150 --> 30:25.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: 394 is kind of like a low-cost 976 exchange.
[30:25.770 --> 30:28.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: You dialed 394-9901.
[30:28.210 --> 30:31.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: It gives you some sort of recording that says something about an IMAS machine?
[30:31.810 --> 30:34.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's a mass announcement exchange.
[30:35.270 --> 30:37.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: An IMAS is a mass announcement.
[30:37.270 --> 30:38.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wait, are you calling it now?
[30:39.510 --> 30:40.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll try, okay?
[30:41.730 --> 30:42.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: 394-9901.
[30:42.810 --> 30:49.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, if I know the WBAI programmers, they probably blocked it, but it's not one of those rip-off lines.
[30:49.530 --> 30:52.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can't charge up a lot of money on these things.
[30:52.630 --> 30:55.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, uh, we'll try to get through and see what it says.
[30:56.570 --> 30:57.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay?
[30:57.210 --> 30:57.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[30:57.790 --> 30:58.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for calling.
[30:58.450 --> 30:58.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[30:59.050 --> 31:01.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, let's see if we can actually do that.
[31:02.970 --> 31:05.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: It'll take us just a second to, uh, to get a line here.
[31:06.790 --> 31:07.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[31:07.850 --> 31:08.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anybody on this line?
[31:09.610 --> 31:10.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good.
[31:10.170 --> 31:10.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[31:11.190 --> 31:14.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now let's try to, uh, get a dial tone here.
[31:15.970 --> 31:17.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, these phones aren't working at all.
[31:17.870 --> 31:18.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, there it is.
[31:19.350 --> 31:21.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, now we dial the number.
[31:26.690 --> 31:27.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's see if it goes through.
[31:36.910 --> 31:38.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't seem to be getting anything.
[31:38.470 --> 31:38.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ah.
[31:38.910 --> 31:46.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: You have reached 394-9901 in the AXE-10 iMath machine.
[31:48.250 --> 31:49.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, AXE is a switch.
[31:49.950 --> 31:52.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's the, uh, Stevenson switch from, uh, from, from Europe.
[31:52.930 --> 31:59.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, we, we've got, we've got fiber optic here who's going to, uh, is going to, he just pops in whenever we have a question like this.
[31:59.210 --> 32:02.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he's going to tell us exactly what that is we just heard.
[32:02.330 --> 32:02.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[32:03.270 --> 32:09.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, I was just saying that it's, it's, uh, the AXE is a digital switch made by Ericsson, which is a European company.
[32:10.030 --> 32:20.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, uh, what that exchange is, 394, is the, uh, similar to the system 976 is based upon, which is the, uh, the, uh, mass announcement system, or MAS for short.
[32:20.770 --> 32:21.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[32:21.230 --> 32:23.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's just basically a recorded announcement.
[32:23.630 --> 32:25.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, what, what kind of people use that?
[32:25.530 --> 32:29.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's basically people that, that want to have a 976 number but don't want to rip people off or something like that?
[32:29.850 --> 32:33.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, I haven't heard of too many phone numbers, uh, in that exchange at all.
[32:33.470 --> 32:33.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[32:33.530 --> 32:38.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: Although, uh, I'm sure people are well aware of the phone numbers that appear in 976, and I'm sure they're, they're quite similar.
[32:38.190 --> 32:38.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[32:39.370 --> 32:45.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, what we're going to try to do now is, uh, get through to a, uh, a wonderful New York telephone operator.
[32:46.550 --> 32:47.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, let's see if we get it off in here.
[32:47.750 --> 32:48.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: There we go.
[32:50.030 --> 32:53.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: And let's see if they can actually, uh, tell us about this.
[32:53.270 --> 32:55.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Of course, they probably won't be able to, but we'll try anyway.
[33:05.580 --> 33:07.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Air telephone, Ms. Latt, may I help you?
[33:07.640 --> 33:08.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, yes, hello.
[33:08.480 --> 33:09.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is the operator, right?
[33:09.620 --> 33:09.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[33:10.180 --> 33:10.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Great.
[33:10.600 --> 33:15.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, I'm trying to find out, uh, the rates to the 394 exchange.
[33:15.560 --> 33:17.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Area code 212-394?
[33:18.000 --> 33:18.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's right.
[33:29.000 --> 33:31.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, that's a local call.
[33:31.960 --> 33:32.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a local...
[33:32.520 --> 33:34.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm going to give you the rate, just for a moment.
[33:34.800 --> 33:35.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, thank you.
[33:36.100 --> 33:36.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[33:37.280 --> 33:42.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: The rate would be calling from a residential phone from 9 p.m.
[33:42.240 --> 33:43.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: to 11 p.m.
[33:43.400 --> 33:46.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: It would be $0.06 and no overtime charge.
[33:46.800 --> 33:48.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: $0.06 plus tax.
[33:49.140 --> 33:50.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that the initial charge?
[33:50.740 --> 33:51.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's it.
[33:51.540 --> 33:51.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's it.
[33:51.920 --> 33:55.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: $0.06, no overtime charge from a residential phone.
[33:55.440 --> 33:56.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, so it's $0.06.
[33:57.360 --> 33:59.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, is that the daytime rate, did you say?
[33:59.740 --> 34:00.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, that's...
[34:00.520 --> 34:02.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's from 9 p.m.
[34:02.420 --> 34:03.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: to 11 p.m.
[34:03.780 --> 34:04.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Monday through Friday.
[34:05.000 --> 34:05.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[34:05.120 --> 34:08.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: The day rate from 8 to 9 p.m.
[34:08.000 --> 34:12.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Monday through Friday would be $0.11 and no overtime charge.
[34:12.900 --> 34:15.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: $0.11 plus tax, no overtime charge.
[34:15.580 --> 34:16.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: And how about after 11?
[34:17.320 --> 34:17.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry?
[34:18.100 --> 34:22.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: After 11, it would be $0.04 plus tax, no overtime charge.
[34:22.880 --> 34:29.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's also your weekend rate, you know, that starts on Friday night at 11, straight through to Sunday at 5.
[34:30.220 --> 34:31.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is there any overtime charge for that?
[34:31.980 --> 34:33.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, there's no...
[34:33.160 --> 34:34.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a flat rate call.
[34:34.960 --> 34:37.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's like your local used-to-be message unit call.
[34:38.000 --> 34:38.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[34:38.440 --> 34:39.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's your flat rate call.
[34:39.860 --> 34:40.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: I understand.
[34:40.640 --> 34:41.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, thank you very much.
[34:41.700 --> 34:42.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're welcome.
[34:42.320 --> 34:42.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bye-bye.
[34:42.540 --> 34:43.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: From this phone now.
[34:43.800 --> 34:44.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: From this phone.
[34:44.340 --> 34:45.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: From this phone, yes.
[34:45.260 --> 34:47.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: It might be different from another phone.
[34:47.520 --> 34:48.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean a different phone.
[34:49.080 --> 34:49.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[34:49.200 --> 34:51.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because the calls are rated by distance.
[34:51.500 --> 34:55.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: But from this phone to that number, it's a flat rate call.
[34:55.400 --> 34:58.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: The phone in the other part of the office, though, it would be the same?
[34:58.200 --> 35:00.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, in the same office, it would be the same thing.
[35:00.960 --> 35:06.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm just saying, if you were calling from another borough, perhaps, or something like that, it might be different.
[35:06.080 --> 35:06.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: I understand.
[35:08.000 --> 35:08.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: for your help.
[35:08.380 --> 35:08.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: You've been very helpful.
[35:08.960 --> 35:08.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Welcome.
[35:09.120 --> 35:09.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye-bye.
[35:09.500 --> 35:09.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye-bye.
[35:10.540 --> 35:10.840]  Whew.
[35:11.680 --> 35:13.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: I feel like I've just run a race or something.
[35:14.240 --> 35:20.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I just had to ask about the overtime because she hadn't said that enough times, so I just had to ask one more time to make it absolutely clear there's no overtime charge.
[35:20.800 --> 35:21.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[35:21.080 --> 35:21.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: You think those rates are right?
[35:22.420 --> 35:23.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's just typical local call.
[35:23.740 --> 35:25.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: That sounds like a typical local call rate to me, too.
[35:28.060 --> 35:29.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're not suggesting we try it one more time.
[35:30.620 --> 35:31.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, let's try it one more time.
[35:32.600 --> 35:37.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is an indication of how sometimes you get a completely different answer if you ask the same question twice.
[35:39.970 --> 35:41.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening, Mr. Harris.
[35:41.170 --> 35:41.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: May I help you?
[35:41.670 --> 35:42.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, hi.
[35:42.510 --> 35:49.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: I need the rate information, please, for area code 212394 exchange.
[35:49.610 --> 35:49.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[35:50.970 --> 35:51.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hold on.
[35:57.820 --> 36:00.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: They gave me 212394, right?
[36:00.340 --> 36:01.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's correct, yes.
[36:06.130 --> 36:08.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, um... What bar is that?
[36:09.150 --> 36:11.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: I believe it's the Manhattan bar.
[36:12.410 --> 36:13.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: That might be incorrect.
[36:13.650 --> 36:14.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hold on.
[36:15.610 --> 36:16.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: 212394.
[36:24.180 --> 36:25.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is New York City.
[36:27.080 --> 36:27.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is?
[36:27.860 --> 36:29.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: It comes up vacant when I put it in.
[36:30.100 --> 36:30.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's coming up vacant.
[36:31.040 --> 36:31.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, dear.
[36:32.380 --> 36:33.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: It belongs to no one.
[36:34.640 --> 36:36.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: What if it's a new telephone company exchange?
[36:38.640 --> 36:39.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hmm.
[36:39.080 --> 36:43.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I had heard it was used... It's sort of like a 976 exchange, only not as expensive.
[36:45.060 --> 36:45.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not sure.
[36:46.000 --> 36:47.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let me connect my supervisor.
[36:47.260 --> 36:47.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, thank you.
[36:48.860 --> 36:49.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: She can...
[36:49.740 --> 36:50.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't see anything.
[36:53.340 --> 36:54.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: It just comes up vacant.
[36:54.980 --> 36:55.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Vacant, yeah.
[36:55.740 --> 36:56.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a problem.
[36:57.960 --> 36:58.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can connect my supervisor.
[36:59.080 --> 37:00.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe she knows more on it.
[37:00.380 --> 37:00.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[37:08.000 --> 37:09.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Supervisor, may I help you?
[37:09.660 --> 37:10.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, hi.
[37:10.700 --> 37:14.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm trying to find out the rates for the 394 exchange.
[37:14.420 --> 37:17.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, I guess I'm trying to find out what the 394 exchange is.
[37:18.480 --> 37:19.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hold on a moment.
[37:19.760 --> 37:20.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[37:22.660 --> 37:23.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: What is the complete number?
[37:25.040 --> 37:26.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I don't have the complete number.
[37:26.740 --> 37:29.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Somebody just asked me to find out about the 394 exchange.
[37:29.540 --> 37:32.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I said it was like the 976 exchange, only not as expensive.
[37:32.800 --> 37:37.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: We don't give out... and those are private numbers, and I don't have the rates on that.
[37:37.820 --> 37:38.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: 394 is...
[37:38.360 --> 37:39.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: You have to look when it flashes on the screen.
[37:40.260 --> 37:41.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: 394 is private?
[37:41.160 --> 37:42.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: The 976.
[37:42.620 --> 37:48.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: If it's on 394 and it's like that number, then we are not going to have the rates here, either.
[37:48.840 --> 37:50.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, aren't there set rates?
[37:50.860 --> 37:51.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Pardon me?
[37:51.700 --> 37:53.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are there set rates for 394 exchange?
[37:54.780 --> 37:55.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, sir.
[37:55.820 --> 37:56.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please hold on a second.
[37:57.100 --> 37:57.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[37:58.840 --> 38:00.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let us over here.
[38:10.520 --> 38:11.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sounds like she hung up almost.
[38:14.240 --> 38:14.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hmm.
[38:15.100 --> 38:17.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: That definitely had a click sound to it.
[38:17.780 --> 38:19.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: I didn't like the way that sounded.
[38:19.960 --> 38:20.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is anybody there?
[38:23.400 --> 38:23.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello?
[38:26.520 --> 38:27.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is anybody on the line?
[38:32.820 --> 38:33.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they hung up.
[38:33.860 --> 38:34.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: How do you like that?
[38:36.050 --> 38:40.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, we will never know if it was on purpose or whether it was an unfortunate accident.
[38:41.800 --> 38:45.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I think we have proven here that there's no way to get a straight answer out of the phone company.
[38:47.270 --> 38:50.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll try and research that a little bit more for everybody.
[38:50.300 --> 38:53.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I had to explain to the phone company this week how their system works.
[38:54.590 --> 38:57.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: They were explaining to me how certain features were available in my area.
[38:57.760 --> 39:00.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I was telling them how certain features are not available in my area.
[39:00.170 --> 39:03.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I was explaining to them why it was impossible for them to be offered in my area.
[39:04.190 --> 39:09.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: And after a lengthy debate of about 20 minutes, they finally looked into it and found out that I was right.
[39:10.940 --> 39:13.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: And needless to say, I didn't feel too good about being right.
[39:13.550 --> 39:15.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, why are we telling them how to run their own system?
[39:16.200 --> 39:16.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[39:17.460 --> 39:18.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, this is WBAI.
[39:19.170 --> 39:20.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, this is WBAI.
[39:21.070 --> 39:21.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what I meant.
[39:21.940 --> 39:22.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[39:22.980 --> 39:25.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: I wanted to ask a question on the program.
[39:25.540 --> 39:25.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[39:26.840 --> 39:28.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Should I tell you the question?
[39:28.380 --> 39:29.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's the only way you're going to get it answered.
[39:29.940 --> 39:30.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[39:30.480 --> 39:31.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: I wanted to...
[39:31.200 --> 39:35.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: I recently went up to a country home, and I wanted to find out why...
[39:35.550 --> 39:39.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was in a rural neighborhood, and I wanted to know why I had to call in...
[39:39.090 --> 39:45.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: When I called a number, I got an operator, and, you know, like why I had to give my number to an operator.
[39:45.150 --> 39:46.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: She asked you what your number was.
[39:46.650 --> 39:47.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry?
[39:47.240 --> 39:48.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: She asked you what your number was.
[39:48.570 --> 39:48.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
[39:49.360 --> 39:54.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: In some areas, they don't have the ability to read your phone number, believe it or not, even in this day and age.
[39:56.230 --> 40:02.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: And there are some places I've heard of where you tell them the number, and they key in the number.
[40:02.340 --> 40:07.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if it doesn't match, they know, but they don't know what your number is if you don't...
[40:07.480 --> 40:08.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's kind of crazy.
[40:08.800 --> 40:10.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe Fiberoptic can tell us in on that.
[40:10.780 --> 40:12.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is it the old-time way of doing it?
[40:12.280 --> 40:17.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, actually, many, many years ago, before they had automatic number identification, Known as ANI.
[40:18.020 --> 40:18.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, ANI.
[40:18.900 --> 40:31.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you were in an area which didn't yet use this type of system, what would happen is that you would get an ANI failure when you tried to make an outgoing call, and they'd use something called Operator Number Identification, or ONI.
[40:32.020 --> 40:32.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: ONI.
[40:32.480 --> 40:36.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, then the operator would come on the line, and she'd ask you where you were calling from, because that's the only way they could tell.
[40:37.870 --> 40:40.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: How easy is it to spoof them and to give them a fake number?
[40:40.860 --> 40:43.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you could easily just tell them whatever you want, and they have no way of knowing.
[40:43.570 --> 40:47.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Except if you give them an exchange that's not local to the area, they'll know that you're lying.
[40:47.130 --> 40:48.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: They'll probably figure something's up.
[40:49.820 --> 40:56.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: So it's just... I mean, they just don't bother to make it more sophisticated, because they don't have to, or...
[40:56.760 --> 40:57.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: It takes time.
[40:57.900 --> 41:00.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, in that type of an area.
[41:00.460 --> 41:02.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're probably still on a step system out there.
[41:03.380 --> 41:06.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of places in the United States are still very primitive, believe it or not.
[41:07.050 --> 41:14.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, most places are digital now, electronic, or whatever, but there are some places that are still really, really backwards.
[41:14.960 --> 41:18.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, no offense to them, but that's just the way it is.
[41:19.000 --> 41:21.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'd never encountered it before, so I thought it was interesting.
[41:21.590 --> 41:23.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll bet you can't choose your long-distance carrier out there.
[41:24.340 --> 41:25.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: I wouldn't know.
[41:25.200 --> 41:26.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I'll bet there's a lot you can't do out there.
[41:26.940 --> 41:27.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.
[41:27.570 --> 41:30.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: But there's probably a lot you can do, by the same token.
[41:30.320 --> 41:36.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll bet you can use magic tones of all kinds and make the phone company really angry.
[41:36.440 --> 41:39.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: So do those people have to use, like, AT&T or whatever for their long distance?
[41:40.460 --> 41:53.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: I know in GTE land, I've been doing some traveling through GTE land, and GTE, by the way, is the biggest phone company in the country, biggest local company, because they have local phone companies throughout the nation, and they merged with Contel recently.
[41:55.290 --> 42:03.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it seems that every long-distance call you place defaults to AT&T, and there's no real way in a lot of GTE places to choose another phone company.
[42:03.980 --> 42:06.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's rather unfair, obviously, but that's the way it is.
[42:07.760 --> 42:08.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: Interesting.
[42:08.280 --> 42:08.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[42:08.550 --> 42:09.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you very much.
[42:09.130 --> 42:09.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for calling.
[42:09.670 --> 42:10.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: You have a great program, by the way.
[42:10.800 --> 42:10.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[42:11.000 --> 42:11.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you.
[42:11.380 --> 42:11.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're welcome, man.
[42:13.350 --> 42:16.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Interesting story from the country there.
[42:16.630 --> 42:19.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of strange phone stories.
[42:19.940 --> 42:20.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[42:20.550 --> 42:20.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on.
[42:21.300 --> 42:21.550]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hi.
[42:21.920 --> 42:22.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: Turn radio down.
[42:23.260 --> 42:23.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[42:23.630 --> 42:23.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: All right.
[42:24.150 --> 42:24.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: Lighter topic.
[42:24.960 --> 42:27.110]  [SPEAKER_17]: Nine, seven, one, not nine, star six, nine.
[42:27.550 --> 42:27.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[42:27.980 --> 42:28.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Call return.
[42:28.880 --> 42:29.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[42:29.320 --> 42:30.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: A friend of mine works for the phone company.
[42:30.800 --> 42:41.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: He says it's not all implemented yet, but it will be possible to block calls, either on an individual basis, by typing in star six, seven, or on a line basis.
[42:42.480 --> 42:45.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: And if you get them blocked, for a one-time only fee, of course.
[42:45.480 --> 42:48.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, now, I believe what you're referring to is blocking of caller ID.
[42:48.740 --> 42:49.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[42:49.540 --> 42:49.720]  [SPEAKER_17]: No.
[42:49.880 --> 42:51.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're saying blocking star six, nine ability?
[42:52.050 --> 42:52.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: Nine, yeah.
[42:53.050 --> 42:53.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[42:53.480 --> 42:55.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: I have not heard that anyplace.
[42:55.500 --> 42:57.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, as I said, this is from a friend who works for the phone company.
[42:58.240 --> 43:01.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we've heard how the phone company answers questions.
[43:01.110 --> 43:05.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I've got to warn you that that might not be valid information.
[43:05.780 --> 43:08.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've never heard of star six, nine being able to be blocked.
[43:08.150 --> 43:23.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, he said, you know, by typing in star six, seven, and they were, and you can get it blocked on a line basis, and, and this is the cool part, that if you don't get it blocked on a line basis, then if you have unlisted service, you'll get a discount on that,
[43:23.720 --> 43:25.020]  [SPEAKER_17]: because you know you pay extra for that.
[43:25.240 --> 43:25.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh-huh.
[43:25.570 --> 43:31.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: And an extra, you'll get a discount on the extra fee if you don't have the star six, nine blocked on a line basis.
[43:31.960 --> 43:43.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, basically, what you're saying is if you pay to have your phone unlisted, which is something else I can't figure out, you'll get a discount on the additional fee you have to pay to keep your number from being broadcast all over the place, if, in fact,
[43:43.520 --> 43:45.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: that's Right, right.
[43:45.580 --> 43:58.880]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then the last kicker is that if you do get it blocked on a line basis, you'll be able to unblock it for selected calls if you want the people to be able to dial it back by dialing, oh, damn, is it Star 7-1 or something like that?
[43:59.420 --> 44:09.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, well, you see, where I am now, and this is something also the phone company says is impossible, they say that in order for Star 6-9 to work on you, it has to work from you.
[44:09.360 --> 44:14.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: In other words, if you can't Star 6-9 somebody, call, return them, nobody can Star 6-9 you.
[44:14.340 --> 44:22.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I found out, much to my chagrin, that that's not true, that I can be Star 6-9 from all over the place, and I can't do it back.
[44:23.120 --> 44:26.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's very embarrassing to find out the hard way that that's the case.
[44:27.040 --> 44:34.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the phone company maintains to this day that if you can be Star 6-9, then you must have the capability yourself, but we simply do not have it.
[44:34.260 --> 44:41.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, the only thing I can say in my defense is I was talking to this guy as a friend rather than calling somebody in the phone company I never knew before.
[44:42.790 --> 44:44.940]  [SPEAKER_17]: It may or may not be true, but there's something.
[44:45.320 --> 44:47.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: One other thing, have you read the Koran recently?
[44:48.320 --> 44:50.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, no, we can't have things like that being said over the air.
[44:51.020 --> 44:57.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, I look to my Koran, there's no mention of GE or BVSing or computers in it.
[44:58.080 --> 44:59.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: There is something about reading the Koran.
[44:59.780 --> 45:03.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: It says, those to whom we have sent the book, study it as it should be studied.
[45:03.880 --> 45:05.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: They are the ones that believe they're in.
[45:05.680 --> 45:09.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: So if I read that right, unless the guys are practicing Muslim, he has no business reading it in the first place.
[45:09.980 --> 45:10.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'll hang up now.
[45:10.660 --> 45:12.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, well, thanks for that interpretation there.
[45:13.120 --> 45:16.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sure GE will be most pleased to find it.
[45:16.880 --> 45:21.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's got some support on censoring people that talk about the Koran.
[45:21.600 --> 45:22.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, good evening.
[45:22.900 --> 45:23.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yes.
[45:24.640 --> 45:25.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: First, about the GE.
[45:35.320 --> 45:36.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: Whenever there's management.
[45:36.660 --> 45:38.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's why I like USENET so much better.
[45:38.820 --> 45:41.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's not really as centralized, you know what I mean?
[45:41.220 --> 45:41.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[45:42.380 --> 45:44.340]  [SPEAKER_19]: So you don't run into those kind of problems.
[45:44.660 --> 45:48.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: If we could have a bigger USENET type of network, I think that would work.
[45:48.740 --> 45:53.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, decentralized and no real person that's controlling everybody.
[45:53.700 --> 45:54.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know what I'm saying?
[45:54.300 --> 46:03.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, well, because what you have when you have centralization is you have the whole managerial world there, and they're all used to that in their little corporate cubicles.
[46:03.820 --> 46:04.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have your politics.
[46:05.060 --> 46:05.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[46:05.400 --> 46:08.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we don't really want that kind of a world.
[46:08.880 --> 46:13.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: We just want to be able to communicate back and forth with different people and say what's on our minds.
[46:13.300 --> 46:16.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's like we're living in two different planets.
[46:16.480 --> 46:16.800]  [SPEAKER_19]: Exactly.
[46:16.800 --> 46:24.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: Now, the other thing, talking about, and of course I wonder about NBC, which is also owned by GE.
[46:24.840 --> 46:25.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[46:25.240 --> 46:27.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: Even worse, but we just don't get to know about it.
[46:27.560 --> 46:29.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: The other thing is cable TV.
[46:29.640 --> 46:33.620]  [SPEAKER_19]: Here on Long Island, you know, we only get 37 channels.
[46:34.120 --> 46:36.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: And my favorite station, which is C-SPAN.
[46:36.620 --> 46:40.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: I just can't believe I've actually lived to hear somebody say I only get 37 channels.
[46:40.660 --> 46:41.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: But go ahead anyway.
[46:41.940 --> 46:46.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, I have friends who get 150, and my satellite friend gets 400.
[46:46.320 --> 46:50.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: But there's still nothing worth watching on, except maybe Northern Exposure, and that's about it.
[46:51.220 --> 46:54.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, you know, I have C-SPAN on in the background.
[46:54.520 --> 46:55.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, there's always C-SPAN in CNN.
[46:56.260 --> 47:00.620]  [SPEAKER_19]: C-SPAN is much better, I think, because it's just raw, and you can make up your own mind.
[47:00.760 --> 47:07.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: My idea, if there's any cable TV programmers out there, bring us some foreign TV, some British TV, some European TV.
[47:07.480 --> 47:09.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, run it through the PAL NTSC converter.
[47:10.300 --> 47:14.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we'll have a whole lot of other things to watch, because they all watch our TV, so why can't we watch theirs?
[47:15.020 --> 47:15.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's my opinion.
[47:15.940 --> 47:16.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry, what were you saying?
[47:17.020 --> 47:21.420]  [SPEAKER_19]: C-SPAN has Soviet news every night, which is an interesting spin.
[47:21.540 --> 47:27.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: And I get to see Japanese TV, too, which, by the way, they play to a much more intelligent audience there.
[47:27.380 --> 47:28.440]  [SPEAKER_19]: They have a quiz show.
[47:28.580 --> 47:30.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: They had one on the Macintosh the other day.
[47:30.400 --> 47:35.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's called Cult Quizzes, and they asked really technical questions.
[47:35.900 --> 47:40.420]  [SPEAKER_19]: Like, they played a sound effect from a game, and the contestants knew what game it was.
[47:41.100 --> 47:43.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's because they're probably all hooked on it over there.
[47:43.160 --> 47:45.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, but the thing is, imagine a game show like that here.
[47:46.180 --> 47:53.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: The thing I was getting at was, I'd really like to see more competition for the cable.
[47:53.000 --> 47:54.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'd like to find out if you know.
[47:54.540 --> 48:02.140]  [SPEAKER_19]: I know that your specialty is really more along the lines of telephones, but cable vision cuts C-SPAN out at 6 p.m.
[48:02.200 --> 48:03.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: every night for Sports Channel.
[48:03.500 --> 48:06.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: I know, it's ridiculous, and things like that happen all the time.
[48:06.260 --> 48:11.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'd like to find another source to get my TV without having to move to Queens or Manhattan or something.
[48:11.820 --> 48:16.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: You see, this is an interesting thing that the phone companies and cable companies are battling amongst themselves.
[48:17.040 --> 48:19.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Neither one wants the other to encroach upon its territory.
[48:19.400 --> 48:25.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think it would be great for everybody if not only they encroach upon each other's territory, but a whole lot of other companies do as well.
[48:25.600 --> 48:30.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, that's why they have so many channels, and it's so cheap in Queens, because there's three competitors in some.
[48:31.180 --> 48:38.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you're lucky enough, you can get any one of three different companies, and that's why they have such good service, so many channels.
[48:38.380 --> 48:44.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think it should be a requirement that we can choose our cable company as well as choose our local phone company.
[48:44.800 --> 48:45.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's true.
[48:45.260 --> 48:49.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because we have no competition for local dial tone, and we should.
[48:49.180 --> 48:52.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: If we can have all these long-distance companies, why can't we have a lot of local companies?
[48:52.460 --> 49:00.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be able to pick and choose and not have to deal with unfairness on their part.
[49:00.200 --> 49:00.600]  [SPEAKER_19]: Absolutely.
[49:00.940 --> 49:04.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: So, do you have any information on any idea on a way?
[49:04.440 --> 49:09.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: I heard somebody got a satellite dish for $800 from RadioShack on sale.
[49:09.660 --> 49:13.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, but you still have to convert and de-scramble and all that.
[49:13.520 --> 49:17.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: Not the majority of the channels, things like C-SPAN or CNN, are not scrambled.
[49:18.080 --> 49:22.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, most of them are scrambled now, I believe, including the broadcast superstations.
[49:22.880 --> 49:25.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: I heard CNN was scrambled, but that could be wrong.
[49:25.780 --> 49:26.580]  That's unfortunate.
[49:27.620 --> 49:29.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, there is no competition out by you.
[49:29.660 --> 49:30.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: I do know that.
[49:30.400 --> 49:39.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: And until there is, you're going to have to live with whatever Cablevision decides is best for you, and that includes shutting off C-SPAN at 6 o'clock for sports.
[49:40.760 --> 49:46.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's one of the reasons I don't get Cable is because I feel it's, you know, they're telling you what to watch.
[49:47.080 --> 49:52.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: They decide what premium channels they want to get and what packages they're going to offer it to you in.
[49:52.080 --> 49:55.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think it should be more, you know, an individual selection kind of a thing.
[49:55.020 --> 50:02.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, Cablevision says that they are expanding the service in my area, North Hempstead, very shortly now, quote-unquote.
[50:02.320 --> 50:02.500]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[50:02.620 --> 50:04.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'd also like to know when.
[50:04.200 --> 50:08.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: They keep saying next month, but they've said the same thing since April.
[50:08.480 --> 50:12.680]  [SPEAKER_19]: Next month, go from 37 to 57 channels.
[50:12.840 --> 50:13.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[50:13.380 --> 50:13.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well...
[50:13.740 --> 50:15.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: Maybe get someone on who can answer that.
[50:15.180 --> 50:20.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and I encourage people in West Hempstead to call and ask repeatedly, and maybe that will make a difference.
[50:20.500 --> 50:20.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[50:20.860 --> 50:21.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you very much.
[50:21.520 --> 50:21.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[50:21.700 --> 50:22.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for calling.
[50:25.020 --> 50:37.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: I spoke to a Cable and Wireless representative this week concerning the cutting off of 950 access, 950 being a very cheap economical way of making long-distance and local phone calls.
[50:37.580 --> 50:41.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: 950 exchange does not cost anything from payphones or from any phone.
[50:41.820 --> 50:46.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: You enter your six-digit code, and then you enter the phone number you want to call, and it's billed to your account.
[50:47.800 --> 50:59.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Recently, Cable and Wireless sent out letters saying they were discontinuing that service because of computer hackers, a charge I find to be absurd because it doesn't take a computer hacker to figure out a six-digit code.
[51:00.440 --> 51:06.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: They said they were moving to their more sophisticated 800 number that had an eight-digit code.
[51:06.640 --> 51:21.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's all fine and dandy except for the fact that instead of charging very economical rates, for instance, a call, a local call that lasts one minute would cost about maybe eight cents, which is cheaper than using a payphone even.
[51:23.080 --> 51:30.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Instead, the 800 number would charge 33 cents a minute, which certainly does not lend itself to either long or short calls.
[51:30.560 --> 51:39.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I spoke with a representative, actually one of the salespeople this week, concerning that, and she said that they'd received quite a lot of calls about that.
[51:40.440 --> 51:45.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: And right now, they're not decided on the issue yet.
[51:45.640 --> 51:50.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're going to be cutting back on 950 service in various parts of the 718 area code.
[51:51.060 --> 51:54.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the impression I got was that they're thinking of doing away with it entirely.
[51:54.880 --> 51:58.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: But they did sound rather exasperated as if they were getting a lot of phone calls.
[51:58.580 --> 52:04.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, cable and wireless is one of the few companies that I have the suspicion actually listens to its customers.
[52:04.240 --> 52:08.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: So if you do use the 950 service, you should know that it is in danger.
[52:08.900 --> 52:13.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you're interested in using it, of course, you may not have that opportunity if this goes through.
[52:14.780 --> 52:24.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Obviously, if they can add two digits to the 800 number, they can add two digits to the 950 number and simply have an eight-digit code on their 950 service.
[52:25.400 --> 52:29.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I urge people to give them a call and, you know, be polite and all that.
[52:30.600 --> 52:34.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Talk it over with them and explain why you think they're either right or wrong.
[52:34.840 --> 52:36.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think most people think they're wrong, though.
[52:37.320 --> 52:38.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: And get back to us.
[52:38.480 --> 52:39.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let us know what they say.
[52:39.160 --> 52:46.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you want to reach them, their 800 number is 800-486-8686.
[52:47.040 --> 52:53.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or if you want to go through the 950 number, if it's still connected in your area, dial 950-0223.
[52:54.000 --> 52:56.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: At the tone, dial 811.
[52:56.420 --> 53:00.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that will get you to their system service representatives or whatever.
[53:02.140 --> 53:04.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: And keep asking questions.
[53:04.580 --> 53:10.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if somebody doesn't provide you with a satisfactory answer, ask to speak to their supervisor and just make your presence felt.
[53:10.800 --> 53:19.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's my advice not only in this particular case, but in any case that concerns you that you find to be unfair or something worthy of attention.
[53:20.260 --> 53:22.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, let's see how many more phone calls we can get in.
[53:22.840 --> 53:23.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[53:24.100 --> 53:24.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi.
[53:24.760 --> 53:25.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I had...
[53:25.820 --> 53:26.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, go ahead.
[53:26.540 --> 53:30.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: I had a question regarding caller ID.
[53:31.160 --> 53:38.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: What I wanted to know was, on caller ID, if the phone company is actually...
[53:39.550 --> 53:51.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you have blocking, let's say that when they instituted, if you have blocking on a caller ID, when you make a call, do they suppress transmission of the data?
[53:51.860 --> 53:58.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or do they, let's say, transmit the data, but also transmit an indicator saying, don't display this?
[53:59.380 --> 54:02.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm just wondering if somebody with the proper equipment...
[54:02.240 --> 54:04.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's say you select blocking.
[54:04.240 --> 54:04.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[54:04.740 --> 54:06.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: You make a call to somebody.
[54:07.500 --> 54:12.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: But they have some sort of equipment where they can, let's say, decode whatever the...
[54:12.600 --> 54:16.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's some sort of a header or something that precedes your call, I think.
[54:16.320 --> 54:16.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[54:17.060 --> 54:18.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it's a data burst.
[54:18.780 --> 54:19.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: It takes about three seconds.
[54:19.820 --> 54:20.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, the data burst.
[54:20.700 --> 54:24.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just whether that data burst is still there.
[54:24.640 --> 54:26.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: In other words, is the information still there?
[54:26.720 --> 54:29.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: And with the proper equipment, could somebody decode the number?
[54:29.740 --> 54:32.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: The information is suppressed, at least this is what the phone company has told me.
[54:33.240 --> 54:42.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: However, and my view on this is that you don't know for sure when you block something if it really worked, if it really did block it.
[54:42.120 --> 54:48.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, that's my personal view that, you know, you're just taking their word for it that your number isn't being transmitted.
[54:48.160 --> 54:50.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: But Fiberoptic has a more technical explanation.
[54:50.920 --> 54:59.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, as far as we can tell, when the number is transmitted in the burst of data, it sends the date and the time as well as the phone number.
[55:00.400 --> 55:02.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: And this information is sent in ASCII.
[55:03.080 --> 55:03.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[55:03.560 --> 55:13.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: And as far as we know, the time would obviously still be sent, but in place of the phone number, the ASCII representation of the letter P would be sent, P meaning private.
[55:14.160 --> 55:17.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, I guess in that sense, the phone number is not being transmitted.
[55:17.900 --> 55:18.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: I see.
[55:18.480 --> 55:18.700]  Okay.
[55:19.040 --> 55:22.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, but, you know, these are ones and zeros we're dealing with here.
[55:22.940 --> 55:23.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: They can be manipulated.
[55:23.800 --> 55:26.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, you know, I advise caution all the time.
[55:27.040 --> 55:33.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do you know if it's possible to receive that data, that data burst on a, let's say, on a modem?
[55:33.980 --> 55:34.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
[55:34.420 --> 55:40.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the modem is set up to receive the proper data.
[55:40.600 --> 55:42.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's 1,200 baud.
[55:43.000 --> 55:44.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it's half duplex.
[55:45.140 --> 55:45.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Half duplex.
[55:45.480 --> 55:47.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's the Bell 202 standard.
[55:47.660 --> 55:50.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's a half duplex synchronous burst of data.
[55:50.680 --> 55:54.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Most modems are asynchronous, so you wouldn't be able to read it.
[55:54.160 --> 56:05.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: But if you have an old Applecat modem on an Apple II, then you'd probably be able to program the Applecats because the Applecats did do the Bell 202 standard, which is a half duplex, 1,200 bits per second.
[56:06.300 --> 56:06.660]  Interesting.
[56:06.880 --> 56:07.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, thanks a lot.
[56:07.620 --> 56:07.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[56:08.420 --> 56:19.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: In fact, we've got some technical information on that in the just-released summer issue of 2600, which no doubt will launch another lawsuit against us by Bellcore, but that's just the kind of thing we like to do.
[56:19.700 --> 56:20.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[56:20.480 --> 56:21.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, dial tone there.
[56:22.080 --> 56:22.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[56:23.980 --> 56:24.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, hi.
[56:25.060 --> 56:26.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'd like to find out...
[56:27.260 --> 56:27.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hi, are you there?
[56:28.060 --> 56:28.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, go ahead.
[56:28.740 --> 56:28.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[56:28.940 --> 56:37.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, I came home and there was a message on my machine, my tape deck, which was two people talking, who I didn't know, talking to each other.
[56:37.340 --> 56:41.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then she said to the guy, I think his machine has just come on.
[56:41.760 --> 56:44.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: So he said, okay, hang up and call me back.
[56:45.120 --> 56:53.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, uh, I looked out my window and on the roof next door there was somebody who seemed to be hooking into phone lines with a phone.
[56:53.800 --> 56:55.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is it possible to do that?
[56:55.860 --> 56:56.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
[56:56.300 --> 57:01.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, uh, they would have to know your phone number to make your machine go on because they have to call you to activate your machine, I would imagine.
[57:02.520 --> 57:11.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, can't they just, like, randomly pick a line and, like, attach alligator clips to it and to, um, just sort of come into the line that way?
[57:11.580 --> 57:20.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, at any point where the lines come in, whether it's that little box on the telephone pole or something in your apartment building, someone can clip in and make all the calls they want off your line.
[57:20.800 --> 57:22.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's, that's, that's very easy.
[57:22.520 --> 57:27.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know about the, uh, you hearing their conversation and, uh, and your machine coming on.
[57:28.020 --> 57:29.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's, uh, I'm not quite sure.
[57:29.640 --> 57:33.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: That might, that implies, like, three-way and, and, and various other things that could be happening.
[57:33.500 --> 57:35.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it's ridiculously easy.
[57:35.540 --> 57:40.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Should I, like, call the phone company and find out, um, if somebody is, like, tapping into my line?
[57:40.560 --> 57:53.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, if you suspect somebody's doing that, write down the time that you think it was happening, if you saw somebody actually doing it, and, uh, check your bill, ask the phone company to look at the local, local part of the bill, which you might not get,
[57:53.540 --> 57:56.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: and, um, you know, see if, see if something is happening.
[57:56.540 --> 57:58.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, of course, report it to the phone company as well.
[57:58.500 --> 57:58.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[57:58.720 --> 58:03.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: So you suspect this is happening because it's, it's their property, you know, those wires are their property.
[58:03.760 --> 58:04.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: They should take an interest in that.
[58:05.300 --> 58:05.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[58:05.340 --> 58:08.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if they don't take an interest in that, take it a step further, go to PSC or something.
[58:09.020 --> 58:09.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[58:09.740 --> 58:10.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, thanks a lot.
[58:10.840 --> 58:11.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[58:11.860 --> 58:13.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Got time for one more quick call.
[58:13.540 --> 58:13.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[58:14.720 --> 58:15.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's not it.
[58:15.580 --> 58:16.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[58:17.160 --> 58:17.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello?
[58:17.980 --> 58:25.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I was curious as to, uh, which city has the most sophisticated, uh, telephone system in America?
[58:26.520 --> 58:27.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's a good question.
[58:27.340 --> 58:37.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that because I know in, in, uh, France, um, there is, uh, uh, sophisticated system where the telephone and, and, uh, news is hooked up.
[58:38.080 --> 58:38.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[58:38.960 --> 58:40.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, they have a video text service.
[58:40.300 --> 58:41.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll hang up and, uh, listen to your reply.
[58:41.840 --> 58:42.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[58:42.420 --> 58:46.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't, uh, boy, this is, this is something that I'm kind of stumped at.
[58:46.280 --> 58:50.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think there's any one city that's, uh, far ahead of other cities.
[58:50.880 --> 58:53.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think the phone companies are kind of moving at the same pace.
[58:53.740 --> 58:56.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, what do you think on that one?
[58:56.280 --> 58:59.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, uh, I'd probably say the United States is the most advanced.
[59:00.000 --> 59:01.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: But he asked for a city in the United States.
[59:01.600 --> 59:03.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it wouldn't be any specific.
[59:03.300 --> 59:03.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[59:03.520 --> 59:06.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: Probably, if you're going to say a lab, then it would be in New Jersey.
[59:06.840 --> 59:07.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[59:07.160 --> 59:08.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, at Bell Labs or a Bell Corps.
[59:09.280 --> 59:09.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[59:09.480 --> 59:10.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Where they actually do the experimenting.
[59:11.460 --> 59:17.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: But, uh, I wouldn't say any one city where the phone system is currently implemented is going to be any more advanced than another.
[59:17.940 --> 59:18.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[59:18.280 --> 59:23.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, there are some, you know, problems in New York that you might not find in other cities, but it goes both ways.
[59:23.600 --> 59:24.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: New York is ahead of other cities.
[59:24.700 --> 59:29.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, but, um, well, some countries, like Paris, is a good example, actually.
[59:30.160 --> 59:34.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Paris is the only city in France that actually has a city code.
[59:34.900 --> 59:36.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, everything else is just France.
[59:36.720 --> 59:38.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, they're, they're kind of miles ahead.
[59:44.060 --> 59:47.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's going to just about do it for us here tonight on Off the Hook.
[59:49.000 --> 59:50.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: My name's Emmanuel Goldstein.
[59:51.020 --> 59:53.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I guess I'll be back again next week at this same time.
[59:55.440 --> 59:58.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Stay tuned for The Personal Computer Show, coming up next.
[59:58.440 --> 01:00:00.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: I cut myself while shaving.
[01:00:01.240 --> 01:00:03.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now I can make a call.