Off The Hook - 1992-08-05
[00:03.060 --> 00:05.940] [SPEAKER_08]: ...to sunblock and sunglasses.
[00:06.360 --> 00:08.920] [SPEAKER_08]: Get sunglasses, by the way, that are polarized.
[00:09.200 --> 00:12.900] [SPEAKER_08]: Polarized sunglasses will, in fact, screen out much of the radiation.
[00:13.460 --> 00:17.760] [SPEAKER_08]: Get sunglasses that are specifically recommended for ultraviolet radiation.
[00:18.300 --> 00:20.740] [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, sunblock, of course, also has a number.
[00:21.120 --> 00:29.320] [SPEAKER_08]: Get one of the highest numbers because of the fact that sunblock is, in some sense, not that effective, but you might as well get the best out of that.
[00:29.320 --> 00:34.400] [SPEAKER_08]: So the point is, the first recommendation is, alter your summer plans.
[00:34.760 --> 00:37.000] [SPEAKER_08]: Don't spend that much time in the sun.
[00:37.220 --> 00:41.040] [SPEAKER_08]: At the very least, you will experience what is called premature aging.
[00:41.380 --> 00:52.960] [SPEAKER_08]: For example, if you've ever visited California and seen some of these sun-worshipping yuppies now entering their 40s, you'll realize that their skin, the resiliency of the skin, is gone.
[00:53.240 --> 00:59.180] [SPEAKER_08]: Their skin is very leathery, and it looks as if they've aged 10 years over the last several years.
[00:59.320 --> 01:05.280] [SPEAKER_08]: because all this ultraviolet radiation has finally caught up to the cult of sun-worshippers.
[01:06.900 --> 01:09.540] [SPEAKER_08]: So, in other words, a word to the wise.
[01:09.920 --> 01:13.060] [SPEAKER_08]: One, if at all possible, stay out of the sun.
[01:13.280 --> 01:19.860] [SPEAKER_08]: Reduce the amount of exposure to ultraviolet radiation, which can cause skin cancer and cause premature aging.
[01:20.140 --> 01:38.100] [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, the United Nations subcommittee that has investigated the problems of the ozone layer has even made a flat prediction that by the early part of next century, there will be an increase of 300,000 skin cancers over what we normally would have suspected.
[01:38.480 --> 01:44.900] [SPEAKER_08]: So, in other words, don't be one of those 300,000 people that come down with skin cancer.
[01:45.100 --> 01:47.380] [SPEAKER_08]: And second of all, take precautions.
[01:47.700 --> 01:56.460] [SPEAKER_08]: Buy sunglasses that are either polarized or are specifically marked to be a protection against ultraviolet radiation.
[01:57.060 --> 01:59.560] [SPEAKER_08]: Sunblock, on the other hand, doesn't help that much.
[01:59.740 --> 02:08.140] [SPEAKER_08]: However, there is now a rating system, so you might as well get the sunblock that gives you maximum protection against ultraviolet radiation.
[02:08.480 --> 02:11.560] [SPEAKER_08]: However, of course, the worse is yet to come.
[02:11.880 --> 02:32.180] [SPEAKER_08]: Given the fact that the United States continues to be one of the largest producers of CFCs, chlorofluorocarbons, given the fact that what's already up there will stay in the upper atmosphere for decades at a time, we can certainly expect the rate of deterioration to accelerate even over the United States.
[02:32.340 --> 02:49.620] [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, many atmospheric scientists now predict that a gigantic hole will open up perhaps this year, perhaps next year, no one knows for sure, over the North Pole, very similar to the gigantic hole that has erupted over the South Pole in 1985.
[02:50.260 --> 03:06.000] [SPEAKER_08]: In other words, a very significant change in the lifestyle of peoples in the Southern Hemisphere has already served as a warning to the people in the Northern Hemisphere that unless we get our act together, we may very well not only destabilize our lifestyle,
[03:06.000 --> 03:09.360] [SPEAKER_08]: but eventually harm the food supply as well.
[03:09.720 --> 03:19.300] [SPEAKER_08]: We realize that food crops are some of the most vulnerable to ultraviolet radiation, and we may very well destroy the food chain as well.
[03:19.760 --> 03:23.940] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, unfortunately, that's all we have time left in exploration.
[03:23.940 --> 03:44.180] [SPEAKER_08]: This is Dr. Michio Kaku, Professor of Theoretical Physics at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, and this has been Exploration, a show that airs every Wednesday evening from 8 o'clock to 9 o'clock that discusses the issues concerning science as well as issues concerning war,
[03:44.540 --> 03:46.040] [SPEAKER_08]: peace, and the environment.
[03:46.040 --> 03:53.920] [SPEAKER_08]: So once again, join us next week on Exploration when we take a journey into the questions of science and politics.
[03:54.200 --> 03:54.800] [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[04:07.010 --> 04:07.930] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you, Michio.
[04:08.050 --> 04:08.110] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you, Michio.
[04:08.110 --> 04:15.090] [SPEAKER_06]: It's now 9 o'clock, and that means it's time for Off the Hook on WBAI New York.
[04:21.390 --> 04:25.910] [SPEAKER_01]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[04:26.830 --> 04:28.850] [SPEAKER_01]: I cut myself while shaving.
[04:29.450 --> 04:31.450] [SPEAKER_01]: Now I can't make a cough.
[04:32.150 --> 04:34.210] [SPEAKER_01]: It couldn't get much worse.
[04:34.810 --> 04:36.750] [SPEAKER_01]: But if they could, they would.
[04:36.990 --> 04:39.670] [SPEAKER_01]: Bun-dilly-bum for the best, expect the worst.
[04:40.230 --> 04:42.150] [SPEAKER_01]: I hope that's understood.
[04:42.370 --> 04:43.130] [SPEAKER_01]: Bun-dilly-bum!
[05:14.040 --> 05:15.780] [SPEAKER_06]: A very good evening to one and all.
[05:15.940 --> 05:16.900] [SPEAKER_06]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[05:17.040 --> 05:28.600] [SPEAKER_06]: The program is Off the Hook, where we talk about all kinds of advancements and sometimes setbacks, but it's always something interesting and things you won't hear anyplace else.
[05:29.160 --> 05:30.760] [SPEAKER_06]: Tonight is no exception.
[05:31.000 --> 05:35.360] [SPEAKER_06]: We'll be taking phone calls, too, at area code 212-279-3400.
[05:36.440 --> 05:47.380] [SPEAKER_06]: And one of the things that we are constantly attempting to find out is the answer to the proverbial question, who are the police and who are the thieves?
[06:13.990 --> 06:17.430] [SPEAKER_03]: The police and thieves in the street.
[06:19.830 --> 06:22.870] [SPEAKER_03]: They're carrying the nation with it.
[06:23.910 --> 06:25.810] [SPEAKER_03]: Against an emanation.
[06:26.610 --> 06:29.290] [SPEAKER_03]: The police that thieves in the street.
[06:31.790 --> 06:34.810] [SPEAKER_03]: The fact of the nation with it.
[06:35.750 --> 06:37.790] [SPEAKER_03]: Against an emanation.
[06:38.570 --> 06:40.070] [SPEAKER_03]: Against a...
[06:40.070 --> 06:49.550] [SPEAKER_03]: To revelation that the next generation will be in me.
[06:49.970 --> 07:01.530] [SPEAKER_03]: From genocide to revelation that the next generation will be in me.
[07:01.530 --> 07:07.130] [SPEAKER_03]: To drop to sea, to keep our dead.
[07:08.390 --> 07:13.310] [SPEAKER_03]: And no one stops saying, in any way.
[07:14.810 --> 07:16.790] [SPEAKER_03]: All the peace may do.
[07:18.150 --> 07:23.190] [SPEAKER_03]: Turn where I sit, in what I say.
[07:54.750 --> 08:01.930] [SPEAKER_03]: Turn where I sit, in what I say.
[08:02.210 --> 08:03.710] [SPEAKER_03]: From Tennessee.
[08:05.350 --> 08:07.090] [SPEAKER_03]: To Revelation.
[08:07.970 --> 08:10.110] [SPEAKER_03]: The next generation.
[08:11.810 --> 08:14.030] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll be here and made.
[08:15.050 --> 08:16.970] [SPEAKER_03]: The clouds turns in.
[08:18.130 --> 08:19.630] [SPEAKER_03]: A day by day.
[08:21.070 --> 08:23.230] [SPEAKER_03]: And no one stops here.
[08:24.250 --> 08:25.850] [SPEAKER_03]: In any way.
[08:26.950 --> 08:29.090] [SPEAKER_03]: All the peace making.
[08:30.130 --> 08:31.970] [SPEAKER_03]: Turn to the episode.
[08:33.630 --> 08:36.170] [SPEAKER_03]: Here's what I'm saying.
[09:03.020 --> 09:05.200] [SPEAKER_03]: The clouds turns in.
[09:06.000 --> 09:07.920] [SPEAKER_03]: The people are dead.
[09:09.000 --> 09:11.520] [SPEAKER_03]: And no one stops here.
[09:12.520 --> 09:14.080] [SPEAKER_03]: In any way.
[09:15.640 --> 09:17.240] [SPEAKER_03]: All the peace making.
[09:18.380 --> 09:20.380] [SPEAKER_03]: Turn to the episode.
[09:20.380 --> 09:25.340] [SPEAKER_03]: Here's what I'm saying.
[09:52.150 --> 09:54.670] [SPEAKER_03]: The nation.
[10:08.340 --> 10:11.580] [SPEAKER_03]: The next generation.
[10:12.240 --> 10:14.640] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll be here and made.
[10:15.740 --> 10:17.640] [SPEAKER_03]: The next generation.
[10:18.580 --> 10:20.660] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll be here and made.
[10:20.660 --> 10:20.660] The next generation.
[10:20.660 --> 10:20.980] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll be here and made.
[10:21.600 --> 10:21.640] The next generation.
[10:21.640 --> 10:21.640] We'll be here and made.
[10:21.640 --> 10:24.100] [SPEAKER_03]: The next generation.
[10:27.900 --> 10:29.900] [SPEAKER_03]: The next generation.
[10:29.900 --> 10:31.140] [SPEAKER_03]: The next generation.
[10:31.680 --> 10:33.080] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll be here, we go.
[10:45.140 --> 10:47.020] [SPEAKER_06]: And the program is Off the Hook.
[10:47.260 --> 10:48.660] [SPEAKER_06]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[10:48.940 --> 10:50.440] [SPEAKER_06]: We're together until 10 o'clock.
[10:50.900 --> 10:54.740] [SPEAKER_06]: That was Bad News with a version of Police and Thieves.
[10:55.680 --> 11:01.260] [SPEAKER_06]: And a lot of people think that if you're a hacker these days, you must be a thief.
[11:01.260 --> 11:07.200] [SPEAKER_06]: And some people think you're bad news, but I can assure you neither one is necessarily true.
[11:07.540 --> 11:12.340] [SPEAKER_06]: Although, there are some that are true, but not necessarily.
[11:13.100 --> 11:15.860] [SPEAKER_06]: If you listen to the program, you know what we mean.
[11:15.940 --> 11:17.340] [SPEAKER_06]: You know that knowledge is power.
[11:17.620 --> 11:22.080] [SPEAKER_06]: And a lot of people want to keep knowledge out of the hands of the common people like us.
[11:22.460 --> 11:27.660] [SPEAKER_06]: We're here to prove them wrong, and also to spread a little bit of that knowledge.
[11:29.480 --> 11:33.940] [SPEAKER_06]: Tonight, the theme is basically a question.
[11:35.040 --> 11:39.160] [SPEAKER_06]: What would you like your telephone to be able to do?
[11:40.700 --> 11:42.040] [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe you can do it already.
[11:42.720 --> 11:47.420] [SPEAKER_06]: Or maybe you'll come up with an amazing idea that no one else has thought of.
[11:48.100 --> 11:51.300] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, we have things like three-way calling.
[11:51.500 --> 11:55.400] [SPEAKER_06]: We have call waiting and call forwarding and speed dialing.
[11:56.380 --> 12:03.540] [SPEAKER_06]: And if you've played around with things, you realize that sometimes your phone falls short.
[12:04.500 --> 12:06.880] [SPEAKER_06]: And it just doesn't do what you want it to.
[12:09.480 --> 12:14.960] [SPEAKER_06]: Where do you think they get their ideas from when they come up with marketing techniques?
[12:17.240 --> 12:25.300] [SPEAKER_06]: They do all kinds of research and development, but most times they don't know what the people really want.
[12:25.400 --> 12:35.980] [SPEAKER_06]: This is your chance to speak directly to the phone companies because, well, you and I both know that the phone companies listen to this program.
[12:35.980 --> 12:39.880] [SPEAKER_06]: They'd be rather foolish not to, wouldn't they?
[12:41.000 --> 12:43.340] [SPEAKER_06]: Let me show you something here.
[12:44.400 --> 12:55.860] [SPEAKER_06]: Here at WBAI, like many places, we've put blocks on particular phone numbers because they run up tremendous bills.
[12:57.080 --> 13:01.540] [SPEAKER_06]: You can do it in your house, you can block 9-7-6 numbers.
[13:02.100 --> 13:05.460] [SPEAKER_06]: You can block 9-7-0 numbers.
[13:05.860 --> 13:09.020] [SPEAKER_06]: You can block 5-4-0 numbers.
[13:09.600 --> 13:13.200] [SPEAKER_06]: You can block 5-5-0 numbers.
[13:13.800 --> 13:21.580] [SPEAKER_06]: As well as 900 numbers, 700 numbers, and yes, even 3-9-4 numbers.
[13:24.660 --> 13:42.240] [SPEAKER_06]: And whether or not you recognize all of those different numbers, most people are aware of the fact that it is now possible to very quickly run up a huge phone bill by calling something that really isn't worth the money.
[13:44.080 --> 13:48.060] [SPEAKER_06]: At only $4.99 a minute, that's not hard to do.
[13:50.660 --> 14:00.040] [SPEAKER_06]: So, we've decided to block the phones here from reaching those particular services because frankly, it's a rip-off.
[14:00.280 --> 14:06.000] [SPEAKER_06]: And we just don't have the money to payphone bills if somebody wants to call the time or something like that.
[14:06.380 --> 14:07.860] [SPEAKER_06]: It's just not worth it.
[14:07.900 --> 14:10.100] [SPEAKER_06]: So let me show you how the system works.
[14:10.720 --> 14:19.400] [SPEAKER_06]: And you can see for yourself that some things that the phone does are worthwhile things.
[14:20.080 --> 14:21.540] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we get our dial tone here.
[14:21.820 --> 14:22.320] [SPEAKER_06]: There it is.
[14:23.500 --> 14:28.300] [SPEAKER_06]: And we have to dial out, so we'll dial a 9 to get out.
[14:28.780 --> 14:31.100] [SPEAKER_06]: And then 9-7-6
[14:44.570 --> 15:02.990] [SPEAKER_06]: And while we're waiting for the error message to go on there, again, those numbers are 9-7-6 9-9-0 I'm sorry, 9-7-0 5-4-0 and 5-5-0 Oops.
[15:04.130 --> 15:04.950] [SPEAKER_06]: It hung up on us.
[15:05.150 --> 15:07.130] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, this phone system is always hanging up on us.
[15:07.550 --> 15:08.550] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's try this one more time.
[15:10.690 --> 15:12.210] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we're going to try this one more time.
[15:25.310 --> 15:26.170] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it hung up again.
[15:26.290 --> 15:30.750] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, suffice to say that it is possible to circumvent just about all of these systems.
[15:32.750 --> 15:35.730] [SPEAKER_06]: And there are ways to get around it.
[15:35.850 --> 15:38.730] [SPEAKER_06]: Here at WBAI, we have those particular numbers blocked off.
[15:40.470 --> 15:40.950] [SPEAKER_06]: But
[15:44.010 --> 16:01.310] [SPEAKER_06]: it is possible for anybody if they have the knowledge and the wherewithal to keep trying things to, yes, get yet another dial tone but there are other possibilities too.
[16:01.470 --> 16:03.810] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry, I'm having a tremendous amount of difficulty here with these phones.
[16:04.450 --> 16:06.310] [SPEAKER_06]: They're cursed, I believe.
[16:08.370 --> 16:09.530] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, let's try it one more time.
[16:22.560 --> 16:24.210] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, clearly something is wrong here.
[16:28.310 --> 16:29.930] [SPEAKER_06]: This worked fine before the show.
[16:30.430 --> 16:30.870] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[16:31.810 --> 16:33.570] [SPEAKER_06]: We have an interesting little noise here.
[16:38.280 --> 16:40.200] [SPEAKER_06]: Things don't always work the way you want them to.
[16:40.240 --> 16:41.160] [SPEAKER_06]: That's lesson number one.
[16:41.940 --> 16:48.380] [SPEAKER_06]: Instead of demonstrating it, I'll simply narrate that while certain numbers can be blocked, they can be reached as well.
[16:48.380 --> 16:55.000] [SPEAKER_06]: If you have patience and if you have the desire to get around certain blocking systems.
[16:55.620 --> 16:57.980] [SPEAKER_06]: And nobody is immune from that.
[17:00.240 --> 17:05.540] [SPEAKER_06]: Would have been more dramatic to demonstrate it, but I guess we have our limitations here.
[17:06.500 --> 17:08.880] [SPEAKER_06]: Again, our phone number is 279-3400.
[17:08.960 --> 17:10.800] [SPEAKER_06]: That number is not blocked, I don't think, from anywhere.
[17:14.070 --> 17:20.870] [SPEAKER_06]: Another example of how computers don't always do the right thing.
[17:22.530 --> 17:25.650] [SPEAKER_06]: And this comes from Barcelona, Spain.
[17:26.030 --> 17:36.890] [SPEAKER_06]: Five judges watching American light flyweight Eric Griffin fight Spaniard Rafael Lozano said the gold medal favorite had advanced as expected into the quarterfinals.
[17:37.130 --> 17:40.490] [SPEAKER_06]: Three said he did it by a wide margin, but the computer said differently.
[17:40.790 --> 17:42.550] [SPEAKER_06]: The computer lied.
[17:43.650 --> 17:47.790] [SPEAKER_06]: What the computer insisted was that Eric Griffin was a six-to-five loser.
[17:48.590 --> 17:52.910] [SPEAKER_06]: And for the moment, at least, that decision will stand.
[17:53.150 --> 17:56.330] [SPEAKER_06]: Because the computer is always right.
[17:57.110 --> 17:59.710] [SPEAKER_06]: Something you, uh, don't want to forget.
[18:01.610 --> 18:09.430] [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, regardless of the opinion of the five men who actually watched the fight, that is what the decision shall be.
[18:10.570 --> 18:15.350] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, actually, after a review of the scorecards, it seemed more like some kind of computer...
[18:15.830 --> 18:16.810] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, well, what do you know?
[18:17.130 --> 18:17.630] [SPEAKER_09]: ...per call.
[18:18.350 --> 18:22.510] [SPEAKER_09]: Eastern Daylight Time, 9, 15, and 10 seconds.
[18:22.670 --> 18:23.610] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you, studio engineer.
[18:23.790 --> 18:25.470] [SPEAKER_06]: We, uh, were able to get that after all.
[18:25.610 --> 18:27.970] [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, that's living proof that, yes, you can overcome blocking.
[18:28.110 --> 18:30.450] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, but the point was about five minutes too late, so...
[18:30.450 --> 18:31.510] [SPEAKER_06]: ...thanks for nothing.
[18:32.170 --> 18:34.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, but yes, it's possible to get around just about anything.
[18:35.850 --> 18:37.470] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, let's continue with this story, however.
[18:38.090 --> 18:42.610] [SPEAKER_06]: After a review of the scorecards, it seemed more like some kind of computer glitch, but the result was the same.
[18:42.870 --> 18:45.070] [SPEAKER_06]: Elimination of a fighter, destruction of a dream.
[18:46.090 --> 18:46.990] [SPEAKER_06]: Sorry about that.
[18:47.290 --> 18:54.330] [SPEAKER_06]: Under the scoring system, at least two judges must hit a button that registers a scoring point within a second after the first judge does.
[18:54.750 --> 19:00.150] [SPEAKER_06]: If, uh, they do not, the point is not awarded by the mainframe computer, even though each point will be recorded individually.
[19:01.610 --> 19:07.390] [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, the individual judges scored the match 10-9, 26-17, 18-9, 19-10, and 8-5.
[19:07.470 --> 19:09.030] [SPEAKER_06]: No wonder the computer got confused.
[19:09.830 --> 19:14.230] [SPEAKER_06]: Ah, but that's, uh, one of the, one of the tragedies of, uh, the modern era.
[19:15.290 --> 19:15.950] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[19:16.590 --> 19:30.890] [SPEAKER_06]: We, uh, talked last week a little bit about, um, Bell Corps, the research arm of the Bell Operating Company, is taking exception to an article that, uh, was printed in the winter 1991 edition of 2600.
[19:31.630 --> 19:41.530] [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, they sent us at the magazine a warning letter saying, if we ever did it again, they would come down very hard on us.
[19:41.710 --> 19:44.650] [SPEAKER_06]: They would use every means at their disposal.
[19:44.850 --> 19:51.410] [SPEAKER_06]: And you better believe, Bell Corps has quite a few means at their disposal to, uh, make us not do that again.
[19:52.090 --> 20:03.670] [SPEAKER_06]: Now, our reply to them pretty much stated that we would do it again because we, uh, believe in exposing security holes, and we believe, uh, in journalistic integrity, and we also believe in freedom of speech.
[20:04.390 --> 20:10.050] [SPEAKER_06]: The Big Three that apparently Bell Corps does not believe in, but, uh, we're going to continue doing that.
[20:10.490 --> 20:12.250] [SPEAKER_06]: Today, something rather interesting happened.
[20:12.410 --> 20:21.510] [SPEAKER_06]: We got a call from the Library of Congress saying that somebody, um, in Congress has taken an interest in this particular issue, and, uh, they want to, uh, look into it further.
[20:21.830 --> 20:25.710] [SPEAKER_06]: So, you never know what you're going to be hearing next as far as this goes.
[20:25.710 --> 20:31.030] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, there was a big story about this yesterday, um, on page two of the Chicago Tribune.
[20:31.630 --> 20:46.810] [SPEAKER_06]: So, uh, that followed by, or preceded by the Newsday article of last week, and a whole lot of discussion on various electronic networks throughout the Internet are making this a, um, a rather, uh, embarrassing thing for Bell Corps.
[20:46.950 --> 20:48.690] [SPEAKER_06]: And you know what happens when Bell Corps gets embarrassed.
[20:48.830 --> 20:51.190] [SPEAKER_06]: Heads fly, and very often the heads don't belong to Bell Corps.
[20:51.350 --> 20:54.650] [SPEAKER_06]: So, we have to, uh, keep an eye on this situation.
[20:54.650 --> 20:56.130] [SPEAKER_06]: We'll be giving you weekly updates.
[20:56.310 --> 21:11.810] [SPEAKER_06]: But what I thought we'd do now, since this story has already, uh, made it everywhere you can possibly imagine, it's being quoted every place, I figured we'd read you the story that was printed in 2600 in, uh, the Winter Edition, uh, because the story itself has now become a news item.
[21:12.290 --> 21:23.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it's basically, it comes from a leaked document that, uh, was leaked to us, and, uh, we don't disclose the, um, uh, names of people that leak things to us.
[21:23.670 --> 21:26.190] [SPEAKER_06]: A lot of times we don't even know the names of people that leak things to us.
[21:26.310 --> 21:27.770] [SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes things just come in the mail.
[21:28.070 --> 21:30.250] [SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes things just get faxed to us.
[21:30.690 --> 21:34.650] [SPEAKER_06]: And I believe that happens to, uh, to many magazines, many newspapers.
[21:35.690 --> 21:49.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, this particular story, uh, talked about how, uh, a particular, a particular aspect of the phone network was, well, not as secure as it could be.
[21:50.430 --> 21:58.850] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll let the article speak for itself, and, uh, if people have any questions, well, I guess they can try asking us, uh, see what we can, uh, what we can do here.
[21:59.290 --> 22:00.590] [SPEAKER_06]: Again, the title is U.S.
[22:00.670 --> 22:06.870] [SPEAKER_06]: phone companies face built-in privacy hole, and this is what is causing all the stir.
[22:07.910 --> 22:15.710] [SPEAKER_06]: Phone companies across the nation are cracking down on hacker explorations in the world of busy line verification, known as BLV.
[22:15.710 --> 22:22.790] [SPEAKER_06]: by exploiting a weakness, it's possible to remotely listen in on phone conversations at a selected telephone number.
[22:23.150 --> 22:32.130] [SPEAKER_06]: While the phone companies can do this anytime they want, this recently discovered self-serve monitoring feature has created a telco crisis of sorts.
[22:32.530 --> 22:49.410] [SPEAKER_06]: According to an internal Bellcore memo from 1991 and Bell operating company documents, a, quote, significant and sophisticated vulnerability, unquote, exists that could affect the security and privacy of BLV.
[22:50.030 --> 22:54.850] [SPEAKER_06]: In addition, networks using a DMS TOPS architecture are affected.
[22:55.330 --> 23:14.150] [SPEAKER_06]: According to this and other documents circulating within the Bell operating companies, an intruder who gains access to an O, A, and M port in an office that has a BLV trunk group and who is able to bypass port security and get, quote, access to the switch at a craft shell level,
[23:14.330 --> 23:17.750] [SPEAKER_06]: unquote, would be able to exploit this vulnerability.
[23:18.190 --> 23:23.450] [SPEAKER_06]: The intruder can listen in on phone calls by following these four steps.
[23:24.030 --> 23:30.150] [SPEAKER_06]: Quote, one, query the switch to determine the routing class code assigned to the BLV trunk group.
[23:30.830 --> 23:34.330] [SPEAKER_06]: Two, find a vacant telephone number served by that switch.
[23:34.990 --> 23:48.310] [SPEAKER_06]: Three, via recent change, assign the routing class code of the BLV trunks to the chart column value of the DN, which stands for directory number, of the vacant telephone number.
[23:49.310 --> 23:55.590] [SPEAKER_06]: And four, add call forwarding to the vacant telephone number, parentheses.
[23:56.090 --> 24:08.910] [SPEAKER_06]: Remote call forwarding would allow remote definition of the target telephone number, while call forwarding fixed would allow, only allow the specification of one target per recent change, message, or vacant line, In parentheses, end quote.
[24:10.450 --> 24:21.730] [SPEAKER_06]: By calling the vacant phone number, the intruder would get routed to the BLV trunk group and would then be connected on a, quote, no test vertical, unquote, to the target phone line in a bridged connection.
[24:22.510 --> 24:28.570] [SPEAKER_06]: According to one of the documents, there is no proof that the hacker community knows about the vulnerability.
[24:29.570 --> 24:42.710] [SPEAKER_06]: The authors did express great concern over the publication of an article entitled, Central Office Operations, the End Office Environment, which appeared in the electronic newsletter, Legion of Doom slash Hacker's Technical Journal.
[24:42.970 --> 24:46.430] [SPEAKER_06]: In this article, reference is made to the no test trunk.
[24:47.190 --> 24:51.450] [SPEAKER_06]: That article says, quote, all of these testing systems have one thing in common.
[24:51.750 --> 24:54.210] [SPEAKER_06]: They access the line through a no test trunk.
[24:54.730 --> 24:58.110] [SPEAKER_06]: This is a switch which can drop in on a specific path or line.
[24:58.570 --> 25:00.250] [SPEAKER_06]: And connect it to the testing device.
[25:00.810 --> 25:09.210] [SPEAKER_06]: It depends on the device connected to the trunk, but there is usually a noticeable click heard on the tested line when the no test trunk drops in.
[25:09.650 --> 25:13.950] [SPEAKER_06]: Also, the testing devices I have mentioned here will seize the line, busying it out.
[25:14.350 --> 25:19.030] [SPEAKER_06]: This will present problems when trying to monitor calls as you would have to drop in during the call.
[25:19.530 --> 25:24.690] [SPEAKER_06]: The no test trunk is also the method in which operator consoles perform verifications and interrupts.
[25:24.690 --> 25:29.830] [SPEAKER_06]: That quote coming from the article in that Hacker Journal, Electronic Hacker Journal.
[25:30.270 --> 25:38.430] [SPEAKER_06]: In order to track down people who might be abusing this security hall, phone companies across the nation are being advised to perform the following four steps.
[25:38.610 --> 25:48.970] [SPEAKER_06]: Quote, one, refer to chart columns, chart columns, that is, or equivalent feature tables, and validate their integrity by checking against the corresponding office records.
[25:48.970 --> 25:57.310] [SPEAKER_06]: Two, execute an appropriate command to extract the directory numbers to which features such as BLV and call forwarding have been assigned.
[25:57.710 --> 26:06.430] [SPEAKER_06]: Three, extract the information on the directory numbers by where the codes relating to BLV and call forwarding were assigned to vacant directory numbers.
[26:07.110 --> 26:11.930] [SPEAKER_06]: And four, take appropriate action, including online evidence gathering, if warranted, unquote.
[26:13.090 --> 26:24.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Since there are different vendors, OSPS from AT&T, TOPS from MTI, et cetera, as well as different phone companies, each with their own architecture, the problem cannot go away overnight.
[26:25.310 --> 26:34.550] [SPEAKER_06]: And even if hackers are denied access to this, quote, feature, unquote, BLV networks will still have the capability of being used to monitor phone lines.
[26:34.970 --> 26:40.250] [SPEAKER_06]: Who will be monitored and who will be listening are two forever unanswered questions.
[26:41.990 --> 26:43.370] [SPEAKER_06]: And that's the whole thing.
[26:43.370 --> 26:44.750] [SPEAKER_06]: That's the entire article.
[26:44.990 --> 26:48.050] [SPEAKER_06]: And that's what raised such a big fuss.
[26:50.530 --> 26:52.690] [SPEAKER_06]: Basically, it came from documents leaked to us.
[26:52.770 --> 26:55.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Now, admittedly, a lot of that goes right over my head.
[26:55.630 --> 26:58.190] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure it goes over the heads of quite a few people out there.
[26:58.290 --> 27:02.610] [SPEAKER_06]: What BELLCORE is so upset about are people that might be able to understand it.
[27:02.670 --> 27:05.770] [SPEAKER_06]: And I believe we have one of those people here, Phiber Optik.
[27:05.990 --> 27:07.310] [SPEAKER_06]: Did you really understand?
[27:07.690 --> 27:08.730] [SPEAKER_06]: Did you understand that?
[27:08.950 --> 27:09.330] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah.
[27:09.450 --> 27:11.130] [SPEAKER_07]: In fact, I'd like to comment on it.
[27:11.270 --> 27:11.670] [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[27:12.750 --> 27:27.410] [SPEAKER_07]: I'd like to say that I've seen the article in 2600, and after reviewing it myself numerous times, I submit the fact that the person writing that hardly has any idea what he's saying, at least not completely, anyway.
[27:27.730 --> 27:29.710] [SPEAKER_06]: The person writing the document?
[27:29.710 --> 27:35.190] [SPEAKER_07]: The person who wrote the document and who submitted it, or whether or not they were the same person, I don't know.
[27:35.190 --> 27:45.670] [SPEAKER_06]: So that is something, and I should point that out, a very strong possibility that somebody in BELLCORE is submitting things to the hacker world.
[27:45.770 --> 27:48.050] [SPEAKER_06]: And that's something that must frighten BELLCORE in no end.
[27:48.190 --> 27:50.230] [SPEAKER_06]: But it's their problem, not our problem.
[27:50.550 --> 27:51.130] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry.
[27:51.250 --> 27:51.470] [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[27:51.770 --> 28:01.710] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, the way that they describe this particular feature and the terminology that they're using it, I actually shouldn't call it a feature, but it's something someone would be apt on exploiting.
[28:01.710 --> 28:11.310] [SPEAKER_07]: The terminology they use is only pertinent when one is talking about a number one or a number one AESS, electronic switching system.
[28:11.670 --> 28:25.950] [SPEAKER_07]: The particular terminology they use, chart columns, routing tables, and things like that, simply don't pertain to other types of switching machines, since such things would be accomplished normally using different means.
[28:26.650 --> 28:37.270] [SPEAKER_07]: And while the terminology is different, the message was pretty much the same, although they did sort of fly off the handle in bringing other things into the picture, like DMS TOPS.
[28:38.370 --> 28:45.750] [SPEAKER_07]: I'd just like to say that DMS is a particular type of switching equipment, digital multiplexing system, made by Northern Telecom.
[28:46.170 --> 28:50.730] [SPEAKER_07]: And what TOPS means is when you dial zero, you get a TOPS operator.
[28:50.730 --> 28:55.990] [SPEAKER_07]: TOPS is the particular positioning system that zero operators use.
[28:56.090 --> 28:56.970] [SPEAKER_06]: They're not TOPS in their field.
[28:57.390 --> 28:59.710] [SPEAKER_07]: No, they're not the TOPS in their field, incidentally.
[29:00.090 --> 29:13.490] [SPEAKER_07]: But because these particular operators perform the busy line verification, I guess they sort of melded it in in all one big threat, making it sound like that all these systems were...
[29:15.170 --> 29:19.370] [SPEAKER_06]: So the actual threat then is not as blatant a threat as they make it out to be.
[29:19.370 --> 29:19.770] [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely not.
[29:19.970 --> 29:29.650] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sure this is no more than a bunch of guys sitting around in a lunchroom table one day saying, hey, I wonder if somebody did this, if this would allow them to drop in on a line.
[29:29.950 --> 29:33.310] [SPEAKER_06]: So now, why do you think they're so concerned then?
[29:33.390 --> 29:36.350] [SPEAKER_06]: You think they think that there's a similar bug in other systems as well?
[29:36.830 --> 29:42.810] [SPEAKER_07]: It's not a bug, and it's not like I noticed in one of the articles that said, oh, this was fixed long before it was published.
[29:43.090 --> 29:45.870] [SPEAKER_07]: It's not something that's a matter of being fixed or broken.
[29:45.870 --> 29:48.590] [SPEAKER_07]: It's simply inherent in the way the system was designed.
[29:48.790 --> 29:54.830] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that's a point being missed by many people, because they simply don't understand what it is that this document says.
[29:55.230 --> 30:02.310] [SPEAKER_07]: I think the bigger problem is the fact that they made the comment about whether or not hackers know that this is possible.
[30:02.530 --> 30:08.130] [SPEAKER_07]: And the fact that they turn around and it appears in a hacker's journal, they look very stupid and foolish.
[30:08.350 --> 30:12.550] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, they make it seem as if, you know, the hackers are the threat, and they're the only threat.
[30:12.790 --> 30:16.210] [SPEAKER_06]: But, I mean, if you didn't have hackers, then would you not have a threat?
[30:16.250 --> 30:23.170] [SPEAKER_06]: I think you would have a threat, and it would be from somebody that would use the system to their advantage and hurt people in the process.
[30:23.470 --> 30:29.490] [SPEAKER_06]: Hackers are kind of a buffer zone between that unpleasant aspect to all this.
[30:29.490 --> 30:31.710] [SPEAKER_07]: This is all very true, and I'm living proof of this.
[30:31.830 --> 30:32.650] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you certainly are.
[30:32.650 --> 30:44.050] [SPEAKER_07]: But the thing that shouldn't be forgotten is that busy line verification systems have been known and common knowledge amongst both hackers and switching engineers for many, many years.
[30:44.530 --> 30:51.350] [SPEAKER_07]: And they've been written up in Bell System technical journals as well as various other journals, and there's simply no secret.
[30:52.050 --> 31:01.470] [SPEAKER_07]: And besides that, a lot of the terminology that was used in describing this quote-unquote bug was simply incorrect, for instance, concerning call forwarding.
[31:01.470 --> 31:02.690] [SPEAKER_07]: But I won't go into that.
[31:02.890 --> 31:11.010] [SPEAKER_07]: I'll simply leave it up to the reader for them to interpret whether or not there really is such an emergency or risk because of this document being leaked.
[31:11.150 --> 31:22.670] [SPEAKER_07]: I certainly say there is not, but Bell Corps tends to think differently, and I maintain that they think this way because they feel foolish, not because of the information contained in the document, but because they made reference to hackers.
[31:23.530 --> 31:26.510] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I guess that was rather embarrassing to them.
[31:27.290 --> 31:31.030] [SPEAKER_06]: We'll just have to wait and see what happens with their threats against us.
[31:31.670 --> 31:43.650] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I don't really relish being threatened by anybody, but this is something that I find particularly interesting because I don't see any firm ground for them to be standing on to challenge our right to expose things like this.
[31:43.750 --> 31:50.890] [SPEAKER_06]: But we appreciate the calls of support we've gotten, the letters of support, and all the other kinds of support that people have sent our way.
[31:51.810 --> 31:59.110] [SPEAKER_06]: And again, listen to Off the Hook and read the Internet because we certainly post things there, and of course there'll be updates in 2600.
[31:59.110 --> 32:14.630] [SPEAKER_06]: By the way, this Friday, for the first time ever, for those of you that think the hackers are dying, that all these raids and indictments are killing us off, far from the truth because you can't kill human spirit, you can't kill individual freedom and things like that,
[32:14.670 --> 32:17.810] [SPEAKER_06]: and people have been trying since the beginning of time to do this.
[32:19.070 --> 32:33.310] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if this is actually a worthy statement against all the people since the beginning of time trying to kill off individual thought, but we'll be having six hacker meetings this Friday, which is the most we've ever had, around the country at the same time,
[32:33.390 --> 32:37.490] [SPEAKER_06]: or at least the same time for local time, which is 5 p.m.
[32:37.550 --> 32:37.990] [SPEAKER_06]: to 8 p.m.
[32:37.990 --> 32:45.630] [SPEAKER_06]: The one in New York takes place at the CityCorp Center, and again, that's a monthly meeting, takes place on the first Friday of the month from 5 to 8 p.m.
[32:45.630 --> 32:49.750] [SPEAKER_06]: That takes place at CityCorp on 53rd Street between 3rd and Lexington.
[32:49.950 --> 33:00.490] [SPEAKER_06]: Basically, a bunch of people just get together, hang out, play with the phones, and meet people, and exchange information, and try to figure out who the spies are, and all that.
[33:00.790 --> 33:09.070] [SPEAKER_06]: There's also meetings going on in Washington, D.C., Los Angeles, San Francisco, and our two newest cities are Chicago and St. Louis.
[33:10.610 --> 33:20.250] [SPEAKER_06]: If for some reason you want information on those particular cities, you can call our brand new Voice Bulletin Board system, which has just been put up.
[33:20.630 --> 33:27.750] [SPEAKER_06]: And we have a special and exciting way to reach that using some new technology, which has just been put in place.
[33:27.910 --> 33:36.450] [SPEAKER_06]: And that's AT&T's new 700 EasyReach servers, which we reviewed here a couple of weeks ago, and we'll probably be reviewing again.
[33:37.230 --> 33:40.510] [SPEAKER_06]: The number to call is 0700-751-2600.
[33:41.290 --> 33:46.910] [SPEAKER_06]: Now, that will route you to the Voice Bulletin Board system after 11 o'clock p.m.
[33:47.470 --> 33:49.870] [SPEAKER_06]: Before that, it'll simply serve as a voicemail system.
[33:51.190 --> 33:56.050] [SPEAKER_06]: But 24 hours a day, you can get information on where the meetings are, as well as other hacker news.
[33:56.270 --> 34:00.630] [SPEAKER_06]: And feel free to contribute your own, and send messages to all kinds of people, and things like that.
[34:00.730 --> 34:03.370] [SPEAKER_06]: So again, that number is 0700-751-2600.
[34:03.690 --> 34:06.710] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not going to tell you how much it costs, but it's fairly cheap.
[34:06.830 --> 34:07.930] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's just put it that way.
[34:08.310 --> 34:12.550] [SPEAKER_06]: It's not one of those rip-off numbers that charge you $2 a minute.
[34:12.550 --> 34:17.150] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a very low-cost system, and I have to say, AT&T surprises me sometimes.
[34:17.330 --> 34:22.390] [SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes they actually come up with something that seems like a good idea, so no doubt this will last about six months.
[34:23.130 --> 34:24.510] [SPEAKER_06]: We'll just have to see what happens.
[34:25.230 --> 34:27.770] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, our phone number is 212-279-3400.
[34:27.770 --> 34:34.170] [SPEAKER_06]: Let me ask Phiber Optik one more question, since we're talking about sort of a wish list of what our phones can do.
[34:34.710 --> 34:42.530] [SPEAKER_06]: I've been playing around with call forwarding and call waiting and all these different things, and I'd like to be able to do more things, have more programming abilities.
[34:42.530 --> 34:46.930] [SPEAKER_06]: Have you ever found yourself met with that frustration that you want your phone to do something that it can't do?
[34:47.150 --> 34:47.790] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, surely.
[34:48.250 --> 34:49.130] [SPEAKER_07]: More than once.
[34:49.390 --> 34:54.410] [SPEAKER_07]: The thing is that we have to keep in mind, though, is with the advent of the new Signaling System 7...
[34:54.410 --> 34:56.090] [SPEAKER_06]: The one that makes the system crash all the time.
[34:56.310 --> 34:57.070] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but not.
[34:57.270 --> 34:58.950] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, as far as AT&T is concerned.
[34:58.970 --> 34:59.110] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[34:59.510 --> 35:13.330] [SPEAKER_07]: But as far as the local Bell operating companies, as they're implementing this signaling system between switches more and more, soon we'll be able to access the custom local area signaling services like return call and repeat dial and things like that.
[35:13.410 --> 35:17.730] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, of course, us out on Long Island have been doing that now for some months, and it's fun.
[35:18.150 --> 35:18.310] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[35:18.470 --> 35:19.890] [SPEAKER_07]: Remains to be seen in the city, though.
[35:20.130 --> 35:20.290] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[35:20.470 --> 35:32.630] [SPEAKER_07]: But with the advent of the signaling system, it will open up the possibilities for things even to come, which might be even bigger and better features, besides the ones that they're offering as part of the class features.
[35:32.870 --> 35:33.970] [SPEAKER_06]: Anything that's been invented yet?
[35:35.350 --> 35:36.170] [SPEAKER_07]: Not that I know of.
[35:36.250 --> 35:37.470] [SPEAKER_07]: Not outside of the...
[35:37.470 --> 35:43.310] [SPEAKER_06]: I'd like a feature where my phone will forward after, say, four rings to another number that I pick.
[35:43.530 --> 35:44.010] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.
[35:44.050 --> 35:44.350] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think...
[35:44.350 --> 35:45.350] [SPEAKER_07]: That's certainly a feature.
[35:45.650 --> 35:46.190] [SPEAKER_07]: That is a feature.
[35:46.190 --> 35:47.490] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think New York Telephone offers that.
[35:47.670 --> 35:48.850] [SPEAKER_07]: No, New York Telephone does not.
[35:48.990 --> 35:56.210] [SPEAKER_07]: And you'll notice that the class features do vary from Bell operating company to Bell operating company as far as which ones they offer.
[35:56.370 --> 35:58.090] [SPEAKER_07]: And independent companies, if they offer them at all.
[35:58.450 --> 36:02.050] [SPEAKER_07]: The most common ones tend to be offered everywhere, like return call and repeat dial.
[36:02.050 --> 36:06.110] [SPEAKER_07]: But there's some others, like selective call forwarding and things like that.
[36:06.330 --> 36:09.910] [SPEAKER_06]: It gets kind of confusing after a while because you forget who's being forwarded where.
[36:10.050 --> 36:10.650] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, sure, yeah.
[36:10.770 --> 36:21.870] [SPEAKER_06]: One thing that I would like to know is, since I've just had call forwarding for a little while and I've been playing with it, I'd like to be able to tell at a glance that my calls are being forwarded because sometimes you forget to unfoward your line.
[36:22.070 --> 36:22.270] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[36:22.270 --> 36:27.290] [SPEAKER_06]: And on many PBXs, they have little lights that flash to tell you this phone line is being forwarded.
[36:27.410 --> 36:33.710] [SPEAKER_06]: But the only clue that you have that your call is being forwarded is if a call comes in, you hear a half a ring and then it's gone and you can't get it back.
[36:33.970 --> 36:34.450] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's true.
[36:34.590 --> 36:37.250] [SPEAKER_06]: So I'd like a better way to forward my calls.
[36:37.490 --> 36:40.450] [SPEAKER_06]: And perhaps a way to remotely forward them as well.
[36:40.630 --> 36:41.250] [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe they're...
[36:41.250 --> 36:45.090] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm on the road sometimes and I'd like to have calls forwarded to the number that I'm at.
[36:45.650 --> 36:47.990] [SPEAKER_06]: There's no way to do that, obviously, if I'm not there.
[36:48.210 --> 36:48.530] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[36:52.270 --> 36:56.210] [SPEAKER_06]: from the listeners as far as what kind of suggestions they have.
[36:56.310 --> 36:59.470] [SPEAKER_06]: 212-279-3400 is the number to call.
[36:59.630 --> 37:05.670] [SPEAKER_06]: We're at the forefront of technology here with regards to the phones and computers interfacing them together.
[37:06.030 --> 37:08.570] [SPEAKER_06]: And there's really no limit to what we can do.
[37:08.790 --> 37:10.350] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's take a phone call.
[37:11.290 --> 37:11.970] [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[37:12.110 --> 37:12.790] [SPEAKER_06]: You're on the air.
[37:13.390 --> 37:13.870] [SPEAKER_14]: Hi.
[37:14.730 --> 37:22.410] [SPEAKER_14]: At the risk of asking a question on a topic that's been dealt with a long time ago, could you talk a little about whatever happened to TAP?
[37:22.810 --> 37:23.850] [SPEAKER_06]: Whatever happened to TAP?
[37:23.930 --> 37:24.710] [SPEAKER_06]: You mean TAP Magazine?
[37:25.070 --> 37:27.490] [SPEAKER_14]: Are they still around in another shape or form?
[37:27.530 --> 37:27.830] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[37:28.030 --> 37:29.510] [SPEAKER_14]: Are they affiliated with 2600?
[37:29.730 --> 37:31.770] [SPEAKER_06]: No, they were never affiliated with 2600.
[37:31.910 --> 37:37.410] [SPEAKER_06]: I can't tell you how many letters we had to write to people saying, where are my issues that I sent money for?
[37:37.870 --> 37:46.750] [SPEAKER_06]: And this was back in 1983, because, coincidentally enough, TAP Magazine folded pretty much the same time that 2600 Magazine started coming out.
[37:47.850 --> 37:51.450] [SPEAKER_06]: And a lot of people thought that 2600 was simply a continuation, but it was not.
[37:52.470 --> 38:02.670] [SPEAKER_06]: The original TAP Magazine, which started out as Yipple back in the early 1970s, officially went out of business in 1983, although it took them a few years to admit that they were out of business.
[38:02.870 --> 38:04.910] [SPEAKER_06]: But that was when the last issue actually came out.
[38:05.410 --> 38:11.590] [SPEAKER_06]: Since then, there have been several attempts to resurrect it, the most recent coming out of Kentucky, and that actually produced a few issues.
[38:11.950 --> 38:19.190] [SPEAKER_06]: However, an issue out of Kentucky has not been seen in over a year, and a lot of people doubt they'll ever see another one.
[38:19.970 --> 38:25.070] [SPEAKER_06]: So, again, if something does happen, we'll report it here in the pages of 2600.
[38:25.310 --> 38:26.650] [SPEAKER_06]: Because what...
[38:26.650 --> 38:31.170] [SPEAKER_06]: I said this at the most recent gathering of hackers in St. Louis, at SummerCon.
[38:32.510 --> 38:35.710] [SPEAKER_06]: We're not opposed to other hacker magazines by no means.
[38:35.710 --> 38:39.130] [SPEAKER_06]: We want to see a lot of hacker magazines because there's a lot to talk about.
[38:39.790 --> 38:46.150] [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, there are some on the Internet now, but as far as we know, we're the only one coming out on paper in this country.
[38:46.810 --> 38:50.770] [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, that deals specifically with hacker issues and nothing else.
[38:51.810 --> 38:56.350] [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, we'd like to see more come up, and we'd certainly like to see something like TAP.
[38:56.390 --> 38:59.150] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think it should be called TAP, to be honest, because TAP was unique.
[38:59.330 --> 39:01.190] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, but do you remember Overswell?
[39:01.810 --> 39:02.170] [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[39:02.390 --> 39:09.450] [SPEAKER_14]: It used to have a pretty good section at one time on, I guess you'd have to call it freak-oriented type information.
[39:09.690 --> 39:10.890] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, does Overthrow still come out?
[39:11.250 --> 39:11.790] [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[39:12.050 --> 39:13.190] [SPEAKER_06]: I haven't seen a copy in a while.
[39:13.830 --> 39:14.250] [SPEAKER_14]: Me neither.
[39:14.430 --> 39:18.050] [SPEAKER_14]: It used to be you could get a free subscription just by calling him and telling him he had long hair.
[39:19.110 --> 39:20.070] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, those were the days.
[39:20.350 --> 39:20.550] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[39:21.210 --> 39:21.470] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[39:22.410 --> 39:26.410] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm wondering what happened because I might have lost track of him a long time ago, and I guess you don't know any more than I do.
[39:26.430 --> 39:33.070] [SPEAKER_06]: No, I know they're downtown someplace, or they were downtown someplace, but if somebody knows, write in to us and we'll be glad to record it.
[39:33.270 --> 39:33.910] [SPEAKER_06]: Alrighty, thank you.
[39:34.050 --> 39:34.530] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for calling.
[39:35.510 --> 39:41.630] [SPEAKER_06]: And again, our address is Off the Hook Care of WBAI, 505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
[39:42.010 --> 39:42.550] [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[39:42.970 --> 39:43.810] [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[39:44.110 --> 39:47.030] [SPEAKER_10]: I'd like to ask a question about Call Answer.
[39:47.410 --> 39:47.690] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[39:48.130 --> 39:50.030] [SPEAKER_10]: Are you familiar with Call Answer?
[39:50.490 --> 39:52.330] [SPEAKER_06]: Call Answer is...
[39:52.330 --> 39:53.650] [SPEAKER_06]: Which one is Call Answer?
[39:53.830 --> 40:04.690] [SPEAKER_10]: That's the one that takes your messages and you have a personal code that you press into your phone, and that allows you access to a mailbox where people would leave their numbers.
[40:04.970 --> 40:06.550] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's like an answering machine, basically.
[40:06.710 --> 40:07.510] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[40:07.710 --> 40:08.070] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[40:08.230 --> 40:08.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
[40:08.930 --> 40:15.550] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, the problem is, for some reason, someone also has access to my code and I don't know how they got it.
[40:15.730 --> 40:17.930] [SPEAKER_10]: Is there any possibility of that happening?
[40:18.050 --> 40:18.670] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, how do you know?
[40:19.350 --> 40:34.590] [SPEAKER_10]: Because when I go to punch in, when I go to Call the Call Answer to get into my mailbox, I'm getting a recording that says you cannot access this feature while someone else is accessing.
[40:34.590 --> 40:35.290] [SPEAKER_06]: Really?
[40:35.730 --> 40:36.050] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[40:36.430 --> 40:39.630] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, the first thing you have to do is change your code, and then you do that through the phone company.
[40:39.790 --> 40:39.970] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[40:40.150 --> 40:40.450] [SPEAKER_06]: I did.
[40:40.610 --> 40:41.330] [SPEAKER_06]: Is it still happening?
[40:42.190 --> 40:42.590] [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[40:42.850 --> 40:46.150] [SPEAKER_10]: No, but I'm just wondering how somebody could figure out a code.
[40:46.290 --> 40:47.270] [SPEAKER_06]: They could watch you.
[40:47.510 --> 40:50.730] [SPEAKER_06]: They could be listening to your line.
[40:50.730 --> 40:52.510] [SPEAKER_06]: They could know somebody at the phone company.
[40:52.690 --> 40:55.170] [SPEAKER_06]: There's almost an unlimited number of ways.
[40:55.190 --> 41:00.350] [SPEAKER_06]: The thing is, when you have physical access to your own answering machine, you really control everything.
[41:00.590 --> 41:03.370] [SPEAKER_06]: But here, there's so many different elements.
[41:03.850 --> 41:04.030] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[41:04.270 --> 41:04.530] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[41:05.250 --> 41:07.630] [SPEAKER_07]: I'd like to ask you, are you from New York or New Jersey?
[41:07.810 --> 41:09.570] [SPEAKER_10]: New Jersey, and I had a rough time getting through.
[41:09.850 --> 41:10.270] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, okay.
[41:10.370 --> 41:19.050] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, in New York here, each person that has call answered dials a unique telephone number in their office, which is only dialable from their specific telephone number.
[41:19.910 --> 41:24.690] [SPEAKER_07]: And that guards against people from dialing into another person's box from outside.
[41:24.950 --> 41:28.370] [SPEAKER_06]: But doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of the system, namely that you can get your messages from answer?
[41:28.370 --> 41:30.110] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's the only thing.
[41:30.230 --> 41:31.730] [SPEAKER_07]: You can't remotely listen to your messages.
[41:31.730 --> 41:34.850] [SPEAKER_07]: You have to be dialing the phone number from your own home.
[41:34.970 --> 41:35.630] [SPEAKER_07]: Can I ask a question?
[41:35.670 --> 41:37.110] [SPEAKER_07]: How much do you pay for this service?
[41:37.290 --> 41:38.050] [SPEAKER_04]: $6.50.
[41:38.350 --> 41:38.810] [SPEAKER_06]: A month?
[41:38.970 --> 41:39.270] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[41:39.450 --> 41:43.710] [SPEAKER_06]: So over the course of a year, you're paying close to $100 for an answering machine.
[41:43.790 --> 41:44.250] [SPEAKER_10]: That's correct.
[41:45.030 --> 41:48.090] [SPEAKER_06]: Do you see any advantage to having this over an answering machine?
[41:48.730 --> 42:09.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, not at the present time, but there was a point where, yeah, I really did need it because my father-in-law was very, very old and he was in the nursing home and I was down with spinal meningitis and at that time there was no one here and my husband had to go to work and so we used that call-answer at that time.
[42:09.690 --> 42:09.910] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[42:10.290 --> 42:18.110] [SPEAKER_10]: They had given us a good deal on it when we first, we got pre-installation on it and we had it so we decided to keep it.
[42:18.490 --> 42:22.570] [SPEAKER_10]: Do you think if I got a regular answering machine that would solve the problem?
[42:22.650 --> 42:26.550] [SPEAKER_06]: I think a regular answering machine could do much more than a call-answer ever could.
[42:26.550 --> 42:41.650] [SPEAKER_06]: You can have answering machines that will call you, that will allow you to call from any phone, that will allow you to listen to the room, that will allow you to record a new message anytime you want and plus you also have the physical tangibility of the messages on a tape.
[42:41.910 --> 42:45.410] [SPEAKER_10]: That is one thing I have to agree with.
[42:45.450 --> 42:46.590] [SPEAKER_06]: Right, I don't know if this happens.
[42:46.590 --> 42:53.630] [SPEAKER_10]: I've been getting messages on the phone that really you know, if I only had a tape of them, I could bring these people to court, I'll tell you.
[42:53.750 --> 42:56.230] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well how long do they allow you to save the messages?
[42:56.350 --> 42:57.190] [SPEAKER_06]: Can you save them forever?
[42:57.310 --> 42:58.190] [SPEAKER_10]: You can save them forever.
[42:58.370 --> 42:58.930] [SPEAKER_06]: You can, okay.
[42:58.990 --> 43:00.630] [SPEAKER_06]: And is there any limit to how many you can have?
[43:01.210 --> 43:04.110] [SPEAKER_10]: I think, let's see, half hour's worth.
[43:04.410 --> 43:05.150] [SPEAKER_06]: Half hour's worth.
[43:05.230 --> 43:08.470] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you see, I can fit 45 minutes on a single side of a cassette.
[43:08.690 --> 43:08.990] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[43:08.990 --> 43:10.890] [SPEAKER_06]: And I can buy as many cassettes as I want.
[43:11.050 --> 43:20.530] [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, it's really another instance of how technology is sort of being taken out of our hands and put into control of the phone company or some other big business.
[43:21.130 --> 43:21.490] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[43:22.030 --> 43:22.390] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[43:22.610 --> 43:25.590] [SPEAKER_06]: I think wherever possible, you should hold on to it yourself.
[43:26.090 --> 43:26.990] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah.
[43:27.330 --> 43:28.830] [SPEAKER_10]: Listen, I want to thank you very much.
[43:28.890 --> 43:29.990] [SPEAKER_10]: It's a wonderful program.
[43:30.230 --> 43:31.430] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, thanks for calling and good luck.
[43:32.770 --> 43:34.350] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, let's go to another call.
[43:35.030 --> 43:36.050] [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening, you're on.
[43:36.230 --> 43:36.710] [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, hi.
[43:36.830 --> 43:41.970] [SPEAKER_11]: I'd like to know, is there a way to block caller ID so they can't know, you know, your number or call somebody?
[43:42.150 --> 43:42.350] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
[43:43.210 --> 43:46.070] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I assume you want to make a private call, is that right?
[43:46.210 --> 43:47.490] [SPEAKER_04]: Calling from New Jersey, you know.
[43:47.810 --> 43:51.190] [SPEAKER_06]: Right, you're calling from New Jersey, are you calling into New Jersey or someplace else?
[43:51.610 --> 43:52.630] [SPEAKER_04]: Say New Jersey, yeah.
[43:53.090 --> 43:59.870] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, within New Jersey, because I don't believe it gets transported outside of New Jersey, not yet, but I'm sure the day will come when it will be.
[44:00.650 --> 44:04.790] [SPEAKER_06]: There is a special code you can actually, wait a minute, is New Jersey, does New Jersey have blocking?
[44:05.090 --> 44:06.830] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I'm not 100% certain about this.
[44:06.890 --> 44:12.450] [SPEAKER_06]: I know New York approved blocking, it's possible you might live in a state that doesn't allow blocking.
[44:12.730 --> 44:15.270] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not 100% sure about this because I'm not from New Jersey.
[44:16.190 --> 44:23.870] [SPEAKER_06]: But what you need to do is dial your New Jersey Bell operator, dial O, they'll be able to tell you right away whether you can block it and how.
[44:24.430 --> 44:25.730] [SPEAKER_07]: What's all about Star 67?
[44:26.290 --> 44:28.110] [SPEAKER_06]: Star 67 is...
[44:29.270 --> 44:31.550] [SPEAKER_06]: That's the number you would dial if it did work.
[44:31.710 --> 44:34.710] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, if it did work, you'd dial Star 67 to block caller ID.
[44:35.030 --> 44:35.230] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[44:35.510 --> 44:37.010] [SPEAKER_04]: And would I use that before I call someone?
[44:37.270 --> 44:44.370] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you'd dial star 67 and then you'd dial the person's telephone number and then usually they'd see the letter P on their caller ID box which means private.
[44:44.810 --> 45:03.270] [SPEAKER_06]: Now, a couple of easy ways though to get around caller ID, go through an operator, say you're having trouble making the call and place it that way, your number will not show up or a call from the payphone obviously or go through any long distance company or use a carrier access code of 10XXX before the number and your number will not be passed along.
[45:03.370 --> 45:04.830] [SPEAKER_06]: Those are all ways that work now.
[45:05.870 --> 45:15.570] [SPEAKER_11]: Also, the three big companies, AT&T, MCI, and Sprint, do they have different lines actually or do they share the same lines, all three?
[45:15.810 --> 45:16.910] [SPEAKER_06]: No, they have different networks.
[45:17.250 --> 45:19.110] [SPEAKER_11]: I see, because I heard ones that they do.
[45:19.410 --> 45:26.750] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, some companies like Metromedia use other phone companies' lines to process their calls, cable and wireless as well.
[45:26.870 --> 45:32.750] [SPEAKER_06]: Smaller companies jump on to the big three, but the big three are all fiercely independent of each other.
[45:32.910 --> 45:33.390] [SPEAKER_11]: I see.
[45:34.690 --> 45:35.050] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[45:35.250 --> 45:36.650] [SPEAKER_11]: Illegal for them to switch you over.
[45:36.830 --> 45:43.890] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, I got a call here from a company and they wanted to switch me over and I just didn't know and then, well, they almost did, actually.
[45:44.110 --> 45:47.690] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, if they do it and you don't give them permission to, yes, it is illegal.
[45:48.090 --> 45:54.090] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know how much you can do about it except complain and get your lines switched back, but it does happen all the time.
[45:54.370 --> 45:54.710] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks.
[45:55.350 --> 45:55.590] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[45:56.570 --> 45:58.530] [SPEAKER_06]: And that process is called slamming.
[45:59.090 --> 46:01.330] [SPEAKER_06]: They even have a name for it, slamming, yeah.
[46:01.810 --> 46:03.050] [SPEAKER_06]: I was slammed once.
[46:03.370 --> 46:06.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I wound up with a weird company on my line.
[46:06.790 --> 46:08.410] [SPEAKER_06]: I got it taken right off.
[46:09.430 --> 46:10.050] [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[46:10.250 --> 46:10.550] [SPEAKER_06]: You're on.
[46:11.690 --> 46:12.090] [SPEAKER_12]: Good evening.
[46:12.130 --> 46:14.850] [SPEAKER_12]: I have a couple of topics I'd like to bring up.
[46:15.050 --> 46:15.790] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, make it fast.
[46:15.790 --> 46:22.710] [SPEAKER_12]: Firstly, I have MCI long distance service and I'm blocked on 900 et cetera numbers.
[46:22.850 --> 46:23.170] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[46:23.530 --> 46:26.190] [SPEAKER_12]: And I was just trying to call on the 950.
[46:26.510 --> 46:34.010] [SPEAKER_12]: So I tried 540 wake on my 950 1022 for MCI card calls.
[46:34.170 --> 46:34.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[46:35.030 --> 46:43.580] [SPEAKER_12]: And the area code you've dialed, 404, has been changed to 706.
[46:43.980 --> 46:44.900] [SPEAKER_06]: You don't say.
[46:45.180 --> 46:52.100] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, that's interesting you should say that because there was a time, I forget which area code split it was, but there was a time, I think it was
[46:59.430 --> 46:59.830] [SPEAKER_13]: diverting.
[47:00.650 --> 47:04.290] [SPEAKER_13]: If you could verify that and also tell me what the difference is between the two.
[47:04.510 --> 47:14.150] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, if I'm not mistaken, and I'm sure Phiber will correct me if I am, call diverting is using a physical device to actually transfer your call onto a second phone line.
[47:14.370 --> 47:31.390] [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, what you mentioned opens up a whole other category of things called diverters, which many people use, because when that call is transferred to the second line and dialed out on that second line, and the person that you eventually wind up speaking to hangs up,
[47:31.650 --> 47:36.210] [SPEAKER_06]: lots of times you'll get back the dial tone that was used to make that second call.
[47:36.410 --> 47:39.870] [SPEAKER_06]: So, this happens a lot with doctors, say.
[47:39.930 --> 47:54.250] [SPEAKER_06]: You call a doctor's office and he's gone home, so it forwards to his answering service, or sometimes to his house as well, by making a physical call on the second phone line, they pick up, you say, sorry, wrong number, or something like that, they hang up and you get their dial tone back,
[47:54.270 --> 48:01.890] [SPEAKER_06]: and what happens is doctors get bills for huge amounts of money because they buy these things called diverters that really aren't very secure.
[48:02.530 --> 48:05.050] [SPEAKER_06]: At least the early ones were not.
[48:05.250 --> 48:06.370] [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, I see.
[48:06.390 --> 48:10.670] [SPEAKER_13]: So you could call anywhere in the world on someone else's tab?
[48:10.930 --> 48:13.010] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that is basically what it does.
[48:13.090 --> 48:22.490] [SPEAKER_06]: Now, call forwarding goes through the actual switch, the phone company, and you're not jumping onto a second line, there isn't that particular kind of insecurity.
[48:22.690 --> 48:37.290] [SPEAKER_13]: In other words, okay, so the diverting, as it came out back in the 60s, you were, someone had to have a device in their home, or where that original call was being sent, to shift it to somewhere else.
[48:37.310 --> 48:38.850] [SPEAKER_06]: A device and a second phone line, yes.
[48:39.450 --> 48:41.250] [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh, okay, and this is totally...
[48:41.250 --> 48:44.490] [SPEAKER_06]: And I might also point out that many times the connections were absolutely atrocious.
[48:44.650 --> 48:51.410] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if you've paired lines together very many times, but sometimes, especially in the early days, it just didn't work out all that well.
[48:51.570 --> 48:55.830] [SPEAKER_13]: Is there anything else that the Marconi Corporation invented that, you know, that goes...
[48:55.830 --> 48:57.150] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, radio?
[48:57.610 --> 48:58.090] [SPEAKER_07]: Radio?
[48:58.450 --> 49:03.890] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, they rather invented a telegraph, a wireless, a whole wireless communication.
[49:04.550 --> 49:05.950] [SPEAKER_13]: Right, yeah, I...
[49:05.950 --> 49:06.290] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[49:06.950 --> 49:15.930] [SPEAKER_13]: Also, second, I'm sorry, the, is there, does your magazine, or do you know of any place I could go for a glossary of terms, such as the ones you've been using this evening?
[49:16.470 --> 49:19.110] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, that's a good question, one we're asked quite a bit, actually.
[49:19.590 --> 49:23.370] [SPEAKER_06]: There are some, um, some glossaries floating around on the Internet, I know that.
[49:24.090 --> 49:28.150] [SPEAKER_06]: See, the problem is, if we printed a glossary of all the terms, it would take up an entire issue.
[49:29.110 --> 49:39.490] [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, and if you, uh, if you go through, you know, over the years and years that we've been putting things out, eventually, you'll find definitions for just about everything, but, uh, to print it over and over.
[49:39.610 --> 49:45.130] [SPEAKER_06]: I, I imagine somebody could write a book about that and just, uh, just put out, you know, terms and definitions and things like that.
[49:45.170 --> 49:48.570] [SPEAKER_13]: Like, I mean, I'm, I went to one meeting, but you, you never showed up.
[49:48.750 --> 49:50.610] [SPEAKER_13]: Could I write to the magazine for back issues?
[49:50.910 --> 49:51.510] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, sure, yeah.
[49:52.290 --> 49:52.650] [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[49:52.950 --> 49:56.330] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'll give you our, our address, uh, so that you can, you can deal with that.
[49:56.750 --> 50:00.770] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it's, uh, 2600 magazine, and you can write to P.O.
[50:00.810 --> 50:06.490] [SPEAKER_06]: Box 752, and that's Middle Island, two words, New York, 11953.
[50:07.110 --> 50:11.830] [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, if you want to call the office, the number there is 516-751-2600.
[50:12.930 --> 50:13.470] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks so much.
[50:13.470 --> 50:14.790] [SPEAKER_06]: That should get you all the information you need.
[50:15.410 --> 50:16.310] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[50:16.470 --> 50:16.530] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
[50:16.870 --> 50:18.690] [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, let's take another phone call.
[50:18.910 --> 50:19.430] [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[50:20.650 --> 50:20.970] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello.
[50:21.210 --> 50:21.670] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, go ahead.
[50:21.810 --> 50:23.430] [SPEAKER_02]: I would like to ask a question.
[50:23.550 --> 50:23.910] [SPEAKER_02]: Could you hold on?
[50:24.030 --> 50:24.230] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
[50:26.090 --> 50:30.250] [SPEAKER_06]: He's running to turn down his radio, which is always a good thing to do if you don't want to get confused.
[50:30.250 --> 50:31.130] [SPEAKER_02]: I have a couple of questions.
[50:31.290 --> 50:31.410] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[50:32.130 --> 50:33.410] [SPEAKER_02]: One is the following.
[50:34.270 --> 50:38.130] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, oh, first of all, I called Bell, uh, uh, New York Telephone.
[50:38.550 --> 50:46.150] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was about a third number call that my boss had got, uh, and since I know a lot about phones, he had asked me to pursue this for him.
[50:46.270 --> 50:46.970] [SPEAKER_06]: It was about what?
[50:47.190 --> 50:48.110] [SPEAKER_02]: A third number call.
[50:48.250 --> 50:48.470] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[50:49.270 --> 50:52.210] [SPEAKER_02]: I, uh, we got a third, he got a third number call.
[50:52.410 --> 51:02.190] [SPEAKER_02]: And when I asked why the operator didn't call for acceptance, they said, well, we, we would be denying, well, well, it was from a regular phone, not a payphone.
[51:02.770 --> 51:05.730] [SPEAKER_02]: We would be denying service if we didn't call for acceptance.
[51:06.030 --> 51:13.150] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, that I thought was ridiculous because if you're on a payphone, you're doing, you're denying service, you're calling for acceptance.
[51:13.430 --> 51:14.230] [SPEAKER_02]: Why don't you do it on a home?
[51:14.270 --> 51:22.670] [SPEAKER_06]: The, the policy the phone company has is if you're at a payphone, they will always call to, uh, to check with the third number to see if, uh, if it's okay to bill to that third number.
[51:22.790 --> 51:26.170] [SPEAKER_06]: If you're not calling from a payphone, uh, they'll just assume it's okay.
[51:26.850 --> 51:29.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I assume this call did not come on a payphone.
[51:29.530 --> 51:29.790] [SPEAKER_06]: No.
[51:29.790 --> 51:35.250] [SPEAKER_06]: So, I think their rationale is that if it didn't come from a payphone, then you can at least pin it on somebody.
[51:35.570 --> 51:35.810] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[51:36.010 --> 51:37.530] [SPEAKER_06]: So, did they try to do that at least?
[51:37.730 --> 51:38.630] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, they did that.
[51:40.330 --> 51:41.950] [SPEAKER_02]: But since there are so many of those private...
[51:41.950 --> 51:49.630] [SPEAKER_06]: I think what you can do, and I'm not 100% certain about this, but I think the phone company will block your lines from accepting third-party calls.
[51:49.750 --> 51:50.550] [SPEAKER_02]: They don't want your line block.
[51:50.590 --> 51:52.630] [SPEAKER_02]: What if you get calls from payphones, you know?
[51:52.830 --> 51:53.590] [SPEAKER_06]: Third-party calls.
[51:53.690 --> 51:55.250] [SPEAKER_06]: You talk about third-party calls, not collect calls.
[51:55.350 --> 51:59.030] [SPEAKER_02]: And then somebody else that you don't know calls from his house or whatever.
[51:59.230 --> 51:59.570] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[51:59.570 --> 52:02.190] [SPEAKER_02]: Or somebody else's house or somebody else's office, you know?
[52:02.370 --> 52:02.590] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[52:02.830 --> 52:05.190] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I think it would be good to have a policy where they always checked.
[52:05.490 --> 52:07.010] [SPEAKER_06]: But I don't know.
[52:07.150 --> 52:07.770] [SPEAKER_06]: I guess...
[52:07.770 --> 52:11.330] [SPEAKER_06]: They only have a few humans working for them now, so they have a lot of things to do.
[52:11.350 --> 52:12.250] [SPEAKER_02]: What if the DS0?
[52:13.310 --> 52:13.690] [SPEAKER_06]: DS0.
[52:14.130 --> 52:15.070] [SPEAKER_02]: DS1 or DS2?
[52:15.150 --> 52:17.510] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, DS0 is data signaling class 0.
[52:17.730 --> 52:19.730] [SPEAKER_07]: It's 64 kilobits a second.
[52:19.990 --> 52:25.410] [SPEAKER_07]: It's the phone company's way of rating digital switches and how fast they can communicate data.
[52:25.550 --> 52:26.230] [SPEAKER_07]: That's pretty fast.
[52:26.350 --> 52:27.550] [SPEAKER_02]: The same as an Erlang?
[52:28.190 --> 52:28.570] Well...
[52:28.570 --> 52:30.930] [SPEAKER_07]: No, Erlang is a unit of traffic measurement.
[52:31.510 --> 52:38.470] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, on the 25 cents for 30 seconds pay funds in Grand Central and Penn Station, when I call a 958 number, I get the following message.
[52:38.590 --> 52:39.250] [SPEAKER_02]: I wrote it down here.
[52:39.370 --> 52:42.210] [SPEAKER_02]: It says, congratulations, you've reached the 426...
[52:42.210 --> 52:51.830] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's saying DID code verification number at the West 36th Street CG1 office.
[52:52.130 --> 52:52.450] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[52:52.590 --> 52:54.130] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, to translate that into English...
[52:54.130 --> 52:54.630] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, please.
[52:54.830 --> 52:57.150] [SPEAKER_07]: DID is direct inward dialing.
[52:57.430 --> 53:01.630] [SPEAKER_07]: And those particular payphones must be on a private telephone system.
[53:01.730 --> 53:03.010] [SPEAKER_02]: It reminds me of a PBX.
[53:03.130 --> 53:04.250] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what the PBX is.
[53:04.250 --> 53:05.490] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, PBXs do use DID.
[53:05.490 --> 53:05.970] [SPEAKER_07]: These are...
[53:05.970 --> 53:07.350] [SPEAKER_06]: I believe these are New York Telephone payphones.
[53:07.530 --> 53:07.670] [SPEAKER_07]: Are they?
[53:07.810 --> 53:07.930] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[53:08.070 --> 53:08.710] [SPEAKER_07]: New York Telephone payphones.
[53:08.850 --> 53:08.930] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[53:09.410 --> 53:09.550] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[53:10.210 --> 53:12.490] [SPEAKER_07]: CG1 is a type of analog...
[53:12.490 --> 53:15.650] [SPEAKER_07]: It designates a number one or a number one AESS usually.
[53:15.890 --> 53:22.710] [SPEAKER_07]: And CG1 just means it's the second analog switch in that particular office of number one and number one A type.
[53:23.010 --> 53:24.850] [SPEAKER_07]: They start numbering with zero and number upwards.
[53:24.850 --> 53:26.930] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so is that the one ESS?
[53:27.410 --> 53:29.790] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that would be a number one or a number one AESS.
[53:30.210 --> 53:34.270] [SPEAKER_02]: And what is the difference between a DMS digital switch and a five ESS?
[53:34.370 --> 53:35.530] [SPEAKER_07]: And you'll have to make this in a minute.
[53:35.710 --> 53:37.870] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I'll try to knock this off in under a minute.
[53:38.010 --> 53:42.530] [SPEAKER_07]: A DMS is a lot smaller capacity than a number five ESS is.
[53:42.570 --> 53:49.310] [SPEAKER_07]: And number five ESSs are also a lot faster and offer a lot better digital switch capability than a DMS does out of the box.
[53:49.530 --> 53:51.910] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and have you ever done a 711 from Queens?
[53:51.910 --> 53:52.870] [SPEAKER_02]: You get Touch-Tones.
[53:53.390 --> 53:53.750] [SPEAKER_07]: What?
[53:54.070 --> 53:54.430] [SPEAKER_06]: 711?
[53:54.430 --> 53:54.810] [SPEAKER_06]: 711.
[53:54.970 --> 53:55.410] [SPEAKER_06]: That's a new one.
[53:55.490 --> 53:56.930] [SPEAKER_02]: In the same area, you get Touch-Tones.
[53:57.050 --> 54:00.410] [SPEAKER_02]: You get a 711 and you just get a Touch-Tone, like, so on.
[54:00.950 --> 54:01.210] [SPEAKER_06]: Really?
[54:01.430 --> 54:02.410] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, we'll have to try that.
[54:02.550 --> 54:02.670] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[54:02.830 --> 54:06.270] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, keep experimenting, though, because that's how we find things like this.
[54:06.370 --> 54:06.490] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[54:06.630 --> 54:11.010] [SPEAKER_02]: You can still 411 by when you make a second request, when they ask you, what's your phone number?
[54:11.670 --> 54:11.990] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[54:12.290 --> 54:15.310] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, like when you make a second request, they say, what is your phone number?
[54:15.430 --> 54:16.430] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll have to charge you.
[54:16.550 --> 54:18.370] [SPEAKER_02]: You'll just say, oh, I'm at a payphone or whatever.
[54:19.010 --> 54:19.330] [SPEAKER_06]: Really?
[54:19.810 --> 54:21.910] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not surprised they're using such an unsophisticated system.
[54:22.130 --> 54:24.250] [SPEAKER_06]: But then again, I'm also surprised they have the gall to charge you.
[54:24.430 --> 54:25.130] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you so much for information.
[54:25.370 --> 54:27.730] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you having a 2600 meeting this Friday?
[54:27.810 --> 54:28.130] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[54:28.270 --> 54:29.950] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll give the details one more time before we go off.
[54:30.230 --> 54:31.910] [SPEAKER_02]: CitiCorp and by the payphone, right?
[54:31.910 --> 54:32.130] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[54:32.410 --> 54:33.070] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for calling.
[54:34.030 --> 54:34.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[54:34.470 --> 54:37.930] [SPEAKER_06]: We have six meetings this Friday coming out.
[54:37.930 --> 54:38.870] [SPEAKER_06]: It's kind of ridiculous, actually.
[54:38.990 --> 54:43.570] [SPEAKER_06]: Six meetings in New York, Chicago, St. Louis, Washington, D.C., Los Angeles, and San Francisco.
[54:43.770 --> 54:50.950] [SPEAKER_06]: Again, for details on the ones outside of New York, you can call our voice bulletin board system 0700-751-2600.
[54:51.910 --> 54:57.550] [SPEAKER_06]: And the one in New York takes place, as always, at the City Corp Center between 3rd and Lexington Avenue.
[54:57.550 --> 55:02.190] [SPEAKER_06]: You'll find that hackers are human beings, much to everybody's surprise.
[55:08.680 --> 55:10.760] [SPEAKER_06]: That's going to just about do it for us here tonight.
[55:11.300 --> 55:13.760] [SPEAKER_06]: Another edition of Off the Hook has come to a close.
[55:13.980 --> 55:16.120] [SPEAKER_06]: And the Personal Computer Show is next.
[55:16.320 --> 55:20.280] [SPEAKER_06]: We'll be back again next week with the latest in whatever happens in the hacker world.
[55:20.340 --> 55:23.380] [SPEAKER_06]: There's always something happening in the hacker world.
[55:23.740 --> 55:24.680] [SPEAKER_06]: Stay tuned to it.
[55:24.820 --> 55:26.560] [SPEAKER_06]: And stay tuned to WBAI New York.
[55:26.820 --> 55:27.240] [SPEAKER_06]: Good night.
Return to Off The Hook Audio Archive