sunblock and sunglasses. Get sunglasses, by the way, that are polarized. Polarized sunglasses
will, in fact, screen out much of the radiation. Get sunglasses that are specifically recommended
for ultraviolet radiation. In fact, sunblock, of course, also has a number. Get one of the
highest numbers because of the fact that sunblock is, in some sense, not that effective, but you
might as well get the best out of that. So the point is, the first recommendation is, alter your
summer plans. Don't spend that much time in the sun. At the very least, you will experience what is
called premature aging. For example, if you've ever visited California and seen some of these
sun-worshipping yuppies now entering their 40s, you'll realize that their skin, the resiliency of
the skin is gone. Their skin is very leathery, and it looks as if they've aged 10 years over
the last several years because all this ultraviolet radiation has finally caught up to the cult of sun
worshipers. So in other words, a word to the wise. One, if at all possible, stay out of the sun. Reduce
the amount of exposure to ultraviolet radiation, which can cause skin cancer and cause premature aging.
In fact, the United Nations subcommittee that has investigated the problems of the ozone layer
has even made a flat prediction that by the early part of next century, there will be an increase of
300,000 skin cancers over what we normally would have suspected. So in other words, don't be one of
those 300,000 people that come down with skin cancer. And second of all, take precautions. Buy sunglasses that
are either polarized or are specifically marked to be a protection against ultraviolet radiation.
Sunblock, on the other hand, doesn't help that much. However, there is now a rating system, so you might as
well get the sunblock that gives you maximum protection against ultraviolet radiation. However, of course,
the worst is yet to come. Given the fact that the United States continues to be one of the largest
producers of CFCs, chlorofluorocarbons, given the fact that what's already up there will stay in the
upper atmosphere for decades at a time, we can certainly expect the rate of deterioration to
accelerate even over the United States. In fact, many atmospheric scientists now predict that a gigantic
hole will open up perhaps this year, perhaps next year, no one knows for sure, over the North Pole,
very similar to the gigantic hole that has erupted over the South Pole in 1985. In other words, a very
significant change in the lifestyle of peoples in the Southern Hemisphere has already served as a warning
to the people in the Northern Hemisphere that unless we get our act together, we may very well not only
destabilize our lifestyle but eventually harm the food supply as well. We realize that food crops
are some of the most vulnerable to ultraviolet radiation and we may very well destroy the food
chain as well. Well, unfortunately, that's all we have time left in exploration. This is Dr. Michio Kaku,
Professor of Theoretical Physics at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, and this
has been Exploration, a show that airs every Wednesday evening from 8 o'clock to 9 o'clock that discusses the
issues concerning science as well as issues concerning war, peace, and the environment. So once again, join us
next week on Exploration when we take a journey into the questions of science and politics. Good evening.
Thank you, Michio. It's now 9 o'clock, and that means it's time for Off the Hook on WBAI New York.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall. I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would. Bon, diddly-bom, but the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood. Bon, diddly-bom!
.
A very good evening to one and all.
This is Emanuel Goldstein.
The program is Off the Hook, where we talk about all kinds of advancements
and sometimes setbacks, but it's always something interesting
and things you won't hear anyplace else.
Tonight is no exception.
We'll be taking phone calls, too, at area code 212-279-3400.
And one of the things that we are constantly attempting to find out
is the answer to the proverbial question,
who are the police and who are the thieves?
The police and thieves in the street
Is carrying the nation with it
Against an emanation
The police and thieves in the street
Fighting the nation with it
Against an emanation
From genocide
To revelation
The next generation
Will be in me
From genocide
To revelation
The next generation
Will be in me
Then it dropped to me
To keep our dead
And now I'll stop saying
Ain't any way
All the peace may do
Turn where I sit
In what I say
Police and thieves in the street
The police and thieves in the street
The fight is a nation with it
Dancing in emanation
Police and thieves in the street
To telling the nation
To telling the nation
Is it
I want to get to run a mission
From genocide
To revelation
The next generation
Will be in me
The cloud comes in
The cloud comes in
Day by day
And no one stops it
In any way
All the peace may do
Turn where I sit
It's what I say
The cloud comes in
The cloud comes in
So you can't
It's what I say
The cloud comes in
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
And a lot of people think that if you're a hacker these days, you must be a thief.
And some people think you're bad news, but I can assure you neither one is necessarily true.
Although there are some that are true, but not necessarily.
If you listen to the program, you know what we mean.
You know that knowledge is power.
A lot of people want to keep knowledge out of the hands of the common people like us.
We're here to prove them wrong and also to spread a little bit of that knowledge.
Tonight, the theme is basically a question.
What would you like your telephone to be able to do?
Maybe you can do it already.
Or maybe you'll come up with an amazing idea that no one else has thought of.
You know, we have things like three-way calling.
We have call waiting and call forwarding and speed dialing.
And if you've played around with things, you realize that sometimes your phone falls short and it just doesn't do what you want it to.
Where do you think they get their ideas from when they come up with marketing techniques, new services?
They do all kinds of research and development.
But most times, they don't know what the people really want.
This is your chance to speak directly to the phone companies because, well, you and I both know that the phone companies listen to this program.
They'd be rather foolish not to, wouldn't they?
Let me show you something here.
Here at WBAI, like many places, we've put blocks on particular phone numbers because they run up tremendous bills.
You can do it in your house.
You can block 976 numbers.
You can block 970 numbers.
You can block 540 numbers.
You can block 550 numbers.
As well as 900 numbers.
700 numbers.
And yes, even 394 numbers.
And whether or not you recognize all of those different numbers, most people are aware of the fact that it is now possible to very quickly run up a huge phone bill by calling something that really isn't worth the money.
At only $4.99 a minute.
That's not hard to do.
So, we've decided to block the phones here from reaching those particular services because, frankly, it's a rip-off.
And we just don't have the money to pay phone bills if somebody wants to call the time or something like that.
It's just not worth it.
So, let me show you how the system works.
And you can see for yourself that some things that the phone does are worthwhile things.
Okay, we get our dial tone here.
There it is.
And we have to dial out, so we'll dial a 9 to get out.
And then, 9-7-6.
And while we're waiting for the error message to go on there.
Again, those numbers are 9-7-6, 9-9-0.
I'm sorry, 9-7-0, 5-4-0, and 5-5-0.
Oops.
Oh, it hung up on us.
You know, this phone system is always hanging up on us.
Let's try this one more time.
Okay, we're going to try this one more time.
Well, it hung up again.
Well, suffice to say that it is possible to circumvent just about all of these systems.
And there are ways to get around it.
Here at WBAI, we have those particular numbers blocked off.
But, it is possible for anybody, if they have the knowledge and the wherewithal to keep trying things.
To, yes, get yet another dial tone, but there are other possibilities, too.
I'm sorry, I'm having a tremendous amount of difficulty here with these phones.
They're cursed, I believe.
All right, let's try it one more time.
Okay, clearly something is wrong here.
This worked fine before the show.
Okay.
We have an interesting little noise here.
Things don't always work the way you want them to.
That's lesson number one.
Instead of demonstrating it, I'll simply narrate that while certain numbers can be blocked,
they can be reached as well.
If you have patience and if you have the desire to get around certain blocking systems,
and nobody is immune from that.
Would have been more dramatic to demonstrate it, but I guess we have our limitations here.
Again, our phone number is 279-3400.
That number is not blocked, I don't think, from anywhere.
Another example of how computers don't always do the right thing.
And this comes from Barcelona, Spain.
Five judges watching American light flyweight Eric Griffin fight Spaniard Rafael Lozano
said the gold medal favorite had advanced as expected into the quarterfinals.
Three said he did it by a wide margin, but the computer said differently.
The computer lied.
What the computer insisted was that Eric Griffin was a 6-5 loser.
And for the moment, at least, that decision will stand.
Because the computer is always right.
It's something you don't want to forget.
And regardless of the opinion of the five men who actually watched the fight,
that is what the decision shall be.
Actually, after a review of the scorecards, it seemed more like some kind of computer...
Oh, well, what do you know?
Thank you, studio engineer.
We were able to get that after all, and that's living proof that, yes, you can overcome blocking.
Okay, but the point was about five minutes too late, so thanks for nothing.
But, yes, it's possible to get around just about anything.
Let's continue with this story, however.
After a review of the scorecards, it seemed more like some kind of computer glitch,
but the result was the same.
Elimination of a fighter, destruction of a dream.
Sorry about that.
Under the scoring system, at least two judges must hit a button
that registers a scoring point within a second after the first judge does.
If they do not, the point is not awarded by the mainframe computer,
even though each point will be recorded individually.
And the individual judges scored the match 10-9, 26-17, 18-9, 19-10, and 8-5.
No wonder the computer got confused.
Ah, but that's one of the tragedies of the modern era.
All right.
We talked last week a little bit about Belcor, the research arm of the Bel Operating Company,
is taking exception to an article that was printed in the winter 1991 edition of 2600.
And they sent us at the magazine a warning letter saying if we ever did it again,
they would come down very hard on us.
They would use every means at their disposal.
And you better believe Belcor has quite a few means at their disposal
to make us not do that again.
Now, our reply to them pretty much stated that we would do it again
because we believe in exposing security holes and we believe in journalistic integrity
and we also believe in freedom of speech.
The big three that apparently Belcor does not believe in,
but we're going to continue doing that.
Today, something rather interesting happened.
We got a call from the Library of Congress saying that somebody in Congress
has taken an interest in this particular issue and they want to look into it further.
So you never know what you're going to be hearing next as far as this goes.
There was a big story about this yesterday on page two of the Chicago Tribune.
So that followed by or preceded by the Newsday article of last week
and a whole lot of discussion on various electronic networks throughout the Internet
are making this a rather embarrassing thing for Belcor.
And you know what happens when Belcor gets embarrassed.
Heads fly and very often the heads don't belong to Belcor.
So we have to keep an eye on this situation.
We'll be giving you weekly updates.
But what I thought we'd do now, since this story has already made it everywhere
you can possibly imagine, it's being quoted every place,
I figured we'd read you the story that was printed in 2600 in the winter edition
because the story itself has now become a news item.
It's basically, it comes from a leaked document that was leaked to us
and we don't disclose the names of people that leak things to us.
A lot of times we don't even know the names of people that leak things to us.
Sometimes things just come in the mail.
Sometimes things just get faxed to us.
And I believe that happens to many magazines, many newspapers.
This particular story talked about how a particular aspect of the phone network
was, well, not as secure as it could be.
I'll let the article speak for itself.
And if people have any questions, well, I guess they can try asking us.
See what we can do here.
Again, the title is U.S. phone companies face built-in privacy whole.
And this is what is causing all the stir.
Phone companies across the nation are cracking down on hacker explorations
in the world of busy line verification known as BLV.
By exploiting a weakness, it's possible to remotely listen in on phone conversations
at a selected telephone number.
While the phone companies can do this any time they want,
this recently discovered self-serve monitoring feature
has created a telco crisis of sorts.
According to an internal Bellcore memo from 1991
and Bell operating company documents,
a, quote, significant and sophisticated vulnerability, unquote, exists.
that could affect the security and privacy of BLV.
In addition, networks using a DMS TOPS architecture are affected.
According to this and other documents circulating within the Bell operating companies,
an intruder who gains access to an O, A, and M port
in an office that has a BLV trunk group
and who is able to bypass port security and get, quote,
access to the switch at a craft shell level, unquote,
would be able to exploit this vulnerability,
the intruder can listen in on phone calls by following these four steps.
Quote, one, query the switch to determine the routing class code assigned to the BLV trunk group.
Two, find a vacant telephone number served by that switch.
Three, via recent change, assign the routing class code of the BLV trunks
to the chart column value of the DN, which stands for directory number,
of the vacant telephone number.
And four, add call forwarding to the vacant telephone number.
Parentheses, remote call forwarding would allow remote definition of the target telephone number,
while call forwarding fixed would allow,
only allow the specification of one target per recent change message or vacant line.
End parentheses, end quote.
By calling the vacant phone number,
the intruder would get routed to the BLV trunk group
and would then be connected on a, quote,
no test vertical, unquote,
to the target phone line in a bridged connection.
According to one of the documents,
there is no proof that the hacker community knows about the vulnerability.
The authors did express great concern over the publication of an article entitled
Central Office Operations, the End Office Environment,
which appeared in the electronic newsletter
Legion of Doom slash Hacker's Technical Journal.
In this article, reference is made to the no test trunk.
That article says, quote,
all of these testing systems have one thing in common.
They access the line through a no test trunk.
This is a switch which can drop in on a specific path or line
and connect it to the testing device.
It depends on the device connected to the trunk,
but there is usually a noticeable click heard on the tested line
when the no test trunk drops in.
Also, the testing devices I have mentioned here will seize the line,
busying it out.
This will present problems when trying to monitor calls
as you would have to drop in during the call.
The no test trunk is also the method
in which operator consoles perform verifications and interrupts.
That quote coming from the article in that Hacker Journal,
Electronic Hacker Journal.
In order to track down people who might be abusing this security hall,
phone companies across the nation are being advised
to perform the following four steps.
Quote, one, refer to chart columns,
chart columns, that is,
or equivalent feature tables
and validate their integrity
by checking against the corresponding office records.
Two, execute an appropriate command
to extract the directory numbers
to which features such as BLV
and call forwarding have been assigned.
And three, extract the information on the directory numbers
by where the codes relating to BLV
and call forwarding were assigned
to vacant directory numbers.
And four, take appropriate action
including online evidence gathering
if warranted, unquote.
Since there are different vendors,
OSPS from AT&T,
TOPS from MTI, et cetera,
as well as different phone companies,
each with their own architecture,
the problem cannot go away overnight.
And even if hackers are denied access
to this, quote, feature, unquote,
BLV networks will still have the capability
of being used to monitor phone lines.
Who will be monitored and who will be listening
are two forever unanswered questions.
And that's the whole thing.
That's the entire article.
And that's what raised such a big fuss.
Basically, it came from documents leaked to us.
Now, admittedly, a lot of that goes right over my head.
I'm sure it goes over the heads
of quite a few people out there.
What Belcor is so upset about
are people that might be able to understand it.
And I believe we have one of those people here,
fiber optic.
Did you really understand?
Did you understand that?
Oh, yeah.
In fact, I'd like to comment on it.
Go ahead.
But I'd like to say that I've seen the article in 2600.
And after reviewing it myself numerous times,
I submit the fact that the person writing that
hardly has any idea what he's saying,
at least not completely anyway.
The person writing the document?
The person who wrote the document
and who submitted it,
or whether or not they were the same person,
I don't know.
But I'm just...
That is something, and I should point that out,
a very strong possibility that somebody in Belcor
is submitting things to the hacker world.
And that's something that must frighten Belcor in no end.
But it's their problem, not our problem.
I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
The way that they describe this particular feature
and the terminology that they're using it...
I actually shouldn't call it a feature,
but it's something someone would be apt on exploiting.
The terminology they use is only pertinent
when one is talking about a number one
or a number one AESS, electronic switching system.
The particular terminology they use,
chart columns, routing tables, and things like that,
simply don't pertain to other types of switching machines,
since such things would be accomplished
normally using different means.
And while the terminology is different,
the message was pretty much the same,
although they did sort of fly off the handle
and bring other things into the picture,
like DMS TOPS.
I'd just like to say that DMS
is a particular type of switching equipment,
digital multiplexing system,
made by Northern Telecom.
And what TOPS means is when you dial zero,
you get a TOPS operator.
TOPS is the particular positioning system
that zero operators use.
They're not TOPS in their field.
No, they're not the TOPS in their field, incidentally.
But because these particular operators
performed the busy line verification,
I guess they sort of melded it in
in all one big threat,
making it sound like that all these systems were...
So the actual threat, then,
is not as blatant a threat as they make it out to be.
Oh, it's certainly not.
I'm sure this is no more than a bunch of guys
sitting around in a lunchroom table one day
saying, hey, I wonder if somebody did this,
if this would allow them to drop in on a line.
So now, why do you think they're so concerned, then?
You think they think that there's a similar bug
in other systems as well?
It's not a bug,
and it's not like I noticed in one of the articles
that said, oh, this was fixed long before it was published.
It's not something that's a matter of being fixed or broken.
It's simply inherent in the way the system was designed.
And I think that's a point being missed by many people
because they simply don't understand
what it is that this document says.
I think the bigger problem is the fact
that they made the comment about
whether or not hackers know that this is possible,
and the fact that they turn around
and it appears in a hacker's journal,
they look very stupid and foolish.
Well, they make it seem as if, you know,
the hackers are the threat,
and they're the only threat.
But, I mean, if you didn't have hackers,
then would you not have a threat?
I think you would have a threat,
and it would be from somebody
that would use the system to their advantage
and hurt people in the process.
Because hackers are kind of a buffer zone
between that unpleasant aspect to all this.
This is all very true, and I'm living proof of this.
Yeah, you certainly are.
But the thing that shouldn't be forgotten
is that busy line verification systems
have been known and common knowledge
amongst both hackers and switching engineers
for many, many years.
And they've been written up
in Bell System technical journals
as well as various other journals,
and there's simply no secret.
And besides that,
a lot of the terminology that was used
in describing this quote-unquote bug
was simply incorrect.
For instance, concerning call forwarding.
But I won't go into that.
I'll simply leave it up to the reader
for them to interpret
whether or not there really is
such an emergency or risk
because of this document being leaked.
I certainly say there is not,
but Bell Corps tends to think differently,
and I maintain that they think this way
because they feel foolish,
not because of the information
contained in the document,
but because they made reference to hackers.
Yeah, I guess that was rather embarrassing to them.
We'll just have to wait and see
what happens with their threats against us.
You know, I don't really relish
being threatened by anybody,
but this is something that I find
particularly interesting
because I don't see any firm ground
for them to be standing on
to challenge our right to expose things like this.
But we appreciate the calls of support we've gotten,
the letters of support,
and all the other kinds of support
that people have sent our way.
And again, listen to Off the Hook
and read the Internet
because we certainly post things there,
and of course there'll be updates in 2600.
By the way, this Friday,
for the first time ever,
for those of you that think
the hackers are dying,
that all these raids and indictments
are killing us off,
far from the truth
because you can't kill human spirit.
You can't kill individual freedom
and things like that.
And people have been trying
since the beginning of time to do this.
I don't know if this is actually
a worthy statement
against all the people
since the beginning of time
trying to kill off individual thought,
but we'll be having six hacker meetings
this Friday,
which is the most we've ever had
around the country at the same time,
or at least the same time for local time,
which is 5 p.m. to 8 p.m.
The one in New York takes place
at the Citicor Center,
and again, that's a monthly meeting
takes place on the first Friday
of the month from 5 to 8 p.m.
That takes place at Citicor
on 53rd Street between 3rd and Lexington.
Basically, a bunch of people
just get together, hang out,
play with the phones,
and meet people,
and exchange information,
and try to figure out
who the spies are and all that.
There's also meetings going on
in Washington, D.C.,
Los Angeles, San Francisco,
and our two newest cities
are Chicago and St. Louis.
If for some reason you want information
on those particular cities,
you can call our brand new
voice bulletin board system,
which has just been put up,
and we have a special and exciting way
to reach that using some new technology,
which has just been put in place,
and that's AT&T's new
700 EasyReach servers,
which we reviewed here
a couple of weeks ago,
and we'll probably be reviewing again.
The number to call is 0700-751-2600.
Now, that will route you
to the voice bulletin board system
after 11 o'clock p.m.
Before that, it'll simply serve
as a voice mail system,
but 24 hours a day,
you can get information
on where the meetings are
as well as other hacker news,
and feel free to contribute your own
and send messages
to all kinds of people
and things like that.
So again, that number is 0700-751-2600.
I'm not going to tell you
how much it costs,
but it's fairly cheap.
Let's just put it that way.
It's not one of those rip-off numbers
that charge you $2 a minute.
It's a very low-cost system,
and I have to say,
AT&T surprises me sometimes.
Sometimes they actually come up
with something that seems
like a good idea,
so no doubt this will last
about six months.
We'll just have to see what happens.
All right, our phone members
is 212-279-3400.
Let me ask Fiberoptic
one more question
since we're talking about
sort of a wish list
of what our phones can do.
I've been playing around
with call forwarding
and call waiting
and all these different things,
and I'd like to be able
to do more things,
have more programming abilities.
Have you ever found yourself
met with that frustration
that you want your phone
to do something
that it can't do?
Oh, surely.
More than once.
The thing is that
we have to keep in mind, though,
is with the advent
of the new signaling system 7.
The one that makes
the system crash all the time.
Yeah, but as far as
AT&T is concerned.
But as far as
the local Bell operating companies,
as they're implementing
this signaling system
between switches more and more,
soon we'll be able
to access the custom
local area signaling services
like return call
and repeat dial
and things like that.
Well, of course,
us out on Long Island
have been doing that
now for some months,
and it's fun.
Yeah.
Remains to be seen
in the city, though.
Yeah.
But with the advent
of the signaling system,
it will open up
the possibilities
for things even to come,
which might be even bigger
and better features
besides the ones
that they're offering
as part of the class features.
Anything that's been invented yet?
Not that I know of.
Not outside of the...
I'd like a feature
where my phone will forward
after, say, four rings
to another number
that I pick.
Oh, yeah.
That's certainly a feature.
I don't think
New York Telephone
offers that anyways.
No, New York Telephone does not.
And you'll notice
that the class features
do vary from Bell Operating Company
to Bell Operating Company
as far as which ones they offer.
And independent companies
if they offer them at all.
The most common ones
tend to be offered everywhere,
like return call
and repeat dial.
But there's some others
like selective call forwarding
and things like that.
It gets kind of confusing
after a while
because you forget
who's being forwarded where.
Oh, sure, yeah.
One thing that I would like to know
is since I've just had
call forwarding
for a little while
and I've been playing with it,
I'd like to be able
to tell at a glance
that my calls are being forwarded
because sometimes
you forget to
un-forward your line.
Right.
And on many PBXs,
they have little lights
that flash
to tell you
this phone line
is being forwarded.
But the only clue
that you have
that your call
is being forwarded
is if a call comes in,
you hear a half a ring
and then it's gone
and you can't get it back.
Yeah, that's true.
So I'd like a better way
to forward my calls
and perhaps a way
to remotely forward them
as well.
Maybe they're
on the road sometimes
and I'd like to have calls
forwarded to the number
that I'm at.
There's no way
to do that obviously
if I'm not there.
So that's another suggestion.
So let's hear
from the listeners
as far as
what kind of suggestions
they have.
212-279-3400
is the number to call.
We're at the forefront
of technology here
with regards to the phones
and computers
interfacing them together
and there's really
no limit
to what we can do.
Let's take a phone call.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi, at the risk
of asking a question
on a topic
that's been dealt
with a long time ago,
could you talk a little
about whatever
happened to TAP?
Whatever happened to TAP?
You mean TAP magazine?
Are they still around
in another shape or form?
Okay.
Are they affiliated
with 2600?
No, they were never
affiliated with 2600.
I can't tell you
how many letters
we had to write
to people saying
where are my issues
that I sent money for
and this was back
in 1983
because coincidentally enough
TAP magazine folded
pretty much the same time
that 2600 magazine
started coming out
and a lot of people
thought that 2600
was simply a continuation
but it was not.
The original TAP magazine
which started out
as Yipple
back in the early 1970s
officially went out
of business in 1983
although it took them
a few years to admit
that they were out of business
but that was when
the last issue
actually came out.
Since then
there have been
several attempts
to resurrect
at the most recent
coming out of Kentucky
and that actually
produced a few issues.
however
an issue out of Kentucky
has not been seen
in over a year
and a lot of people
doubt they'll ever
see another one.
So again
if something does happen
we'll report it
here in the pages
of 2600
because
I said this
at the most recent
gathering of hackers
in St. Louis
at SummerCon
we're not opposed
to other hacker magazines
by no means.
We want to see
a lot of hacker magazines
because there's a lot
to talk about
and you know
there are some
on the internet now
but as far as we know
we're the only one
coming out on paper
in this country
and you know
that deals specifically
with hacker issues
and nothing else.
So you know
we'd like to see
more come up
and we'd certainly
like to see
something like TAP.
I don't think
it should be called
TAP to be honest
because TAP was unique.
Do you remember
Overthrow?
Yes.
It used to have
a pretty good section
at one time
on I guess
you'd have to call it
freak oriented
type information.
Well does Overthrow
still come out?
I don't know.
I haven't seen a copy
in a while.
Me neither.
It used to be
you could get
a free subscription
just by calling him
and telling him
he had long hair.
Oh those were the days.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm wondering
what happened
because I might
lost track of him
a long time ago
and I guess you don't
know any more than I do.
No I know
they were downtown
someplace
or they were
downtown someplace
but if somebody
knows write in to us
and we'll be glad
to report it.
Alrighty.
Thank you.
Thanks for calling.
And again our address
is off the hook
here of WBAI
505 8th Avenue
New York, New York
10018.
Good evening.
Good evening.
I'd like to ask
a question about
call answer.
Okay.
Are you familiar
with call answer?
Call answer is
which one is call answer?
That's the one
that takes your messages
and you have a personal
code that you press
into your phone
and that allows you
access to a mailbox
where people would
leave their numbers.
Yeah it's like an
answering machine
basically.
Yeah.
Okay.
Exactly.
Now the problem is
for some reason
someone also has
access to my code
and I don't know
how they got it.
Is there any possibility
of that happening?
Well how do you know?
Because when I go to
punch in, when I go
to call the call answer
to get into my mailbox
I'm getting a recording
that says you cannot
access this feature
while someone else
is accessing.
Really?
Yeah.
Well the first thing
you have to do is
change your code
and then you do that
through the phone company.
I did.
Is it still happening?
No.
No.
But I'm just wondering
how somebody could
figure out a code.
They could watch you.
They could be listening
to your line.
They could know
somebody at the phone
company.
There's almost an
unlimited number of ways.
The thing is
when you have
physical access
to your own
answering machine
you really control
everything.
But here there's
so many different elements.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'd like to ask you
are you from New York
or New Jersey?
New Jersey
and I had a rough
time getting through.
Oh okay.
Well in New York here
each person that has
call answered
dials a unique
telephone number
in their office
which is only dialable
from their specific
telephone number.
And that guards
against people
from dialing into
another person's box
from outside.
But doesn't that
defeat the whole
purpose of the system
namely that you can
get your messages
from anywhere?
Yeah.
That's the only thing.
You can't remotely
listen to your messages.
You have to be
dialing the phone number
from your own home.
Can I ask a question?
How much do you pay
for this service?
$6.50.
A month?
Uh huh.
So over the course
of a year
you're paying
close to $100
for an answering machine.
That's correct.
Do you see any
advantage to having
this over an answering
machine?
Well not at the
present time
but there was a
point where
yeah I really
did need it
because my
father-in-law
was very very ill
and he was
in a nursing home
and I was down
with spinal meningitis
and at that time
there was no one
here and my
husband had to
go to work
and so we
used that call
answer at that
time.
Uh huh.
They had given
us a good deal
on it when we
first we got
pre-installation
on it and we
had it so we
decided to keep
it.
Do you think if I
got a regular
answering machine
that would solve
the problem?
I think a regular
answering machine
could do much
more than a call
answer ever could.
You can have
answering machines
that will call
you, that will
allow you to call
from any phone,
that will allow
you to listen to
the room, that
will allow you to
record a new
message anytime you
want and plus you
also have the
physical tangibility
of the messages
on a tape.
That is one thing
I have to agree
with.
Right.
I don't know if
this happens.
I've been getting
messages on the
phone that really
you know if I
only had a tape
of them I could
bring these people
to court I'll tell
you.
Yeah well how long
do they allow you
to save the messages
or can you save
them forever?
You can save
them forever.
You can okay and
is there any limit
to how many you
can have?
I think let's
see half hour's
worth.
Half hour's worth.
Well you see I can
fit 45 minutes on a
single side of a
cassette and I can
buy as many cassettes
as I want so you
know it's really
another instance of
how technology is
sort of being taken
out of our hands
and put into control
of the phone company
or some other big
business.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I think wherever
possible you should
hold on to it
yourself.
Yeah yeah
listen I want to
thank you very much
it's a wonderful
program.
Okay thanks for
calling and good
luck.
Okay let's go to
another call.
Good evening you're
on.
Yes hi I'd like to
know is there a way
to block caller ID
so they can't know
your number or call
somebody?
Sure well I assume
you want to make a
private call is that
right?
I'm calling from
New Jersey.
Right you're calling
from New Jersey are
you calling into New
Jersey or someplace
else?
Say New Jersey yeah.
Okay within New
Jersey because I don't
believe it gets
transported outside of
New Jersey not yet but
I'm sure the day will
come when it will be.
There is a special code
you can actually wait a
minute is New Jersey
does New Jersey have
blocking?
You know I'm not 100%
certain about this I know
New York approved
blocking.
It's possible you might
live in a state that
doesn't allow blocking.
I'm not 100% sure about
this because I'm not from
New Jersey.
But what you need to do
is dial your New Jersey
bell operator.
Dial O.
They'll be able to tell
you right away whether
you can block it and
how.
Tell them about star 67.
Star 67 is that's the
number you would dial if
it did work.
Yeah if it did work you
dial star 67 to block
caller ID.
Yeah.
And would I use that
before I call someone?
Yeah you dial star 67 and
then you dial the person's
telephone number and then
usually they'd see the
letter P on their caller
ID box which means
private.
Now a couple of easy
ways though to get around
caller ID go through an
operator say you're having
trouble making the call
and place it that way your
number will not show up
or a call from the pay
phone obviously or go
through any long distance
company or use a carrier
access code of 10XXX before
the number and your number
will not be passed along.
Those are all ways that
that work now.
All right.
Also the three big
companies AT&T MCI and
Sprint do they have like
different lines actually or
do they share the same
lines all three?
No they have different
networks.
I see because I heard
ones that they do.
Well some companies like
Metro Media use other phone
companies lines to process
their calls cable and
wireless as well.
Smaller companies you know
jump on to the big three
but the big three are all
fiercely independent of
each other.
It's illegal for them to
switch you over like I got
a call here from a company
and they wanted to switch me
over and I just didn't know
and then well they almost
did actually.
Well if they do it and you
don't give them permission
to yes it is illegal.
I don't know how much you can
do about it except complain
and get your line switched
back but it does happen all
the time.
Thanks.
Okay.
And incidentally that process
is called slamming.
They even have a name for it
slamming.
Yeah I was slammed once.
Yeah I wound up with a weird
company on my line.
Got it taken right off.
Good evening you're on.
Good evening I have a couple
of topics I'd like to bring up.
Okay make it fast.
Firstly I have MCI long
distance service and I'm
blocked on 900 tetra numbers
and I was just trying to call
on the 950 so I tried 540
wake on my 950 1022 for MCI
card calls.
Yeah.
And I got a recording that
said the area code you've
dialed 404 has been changed
to 706.
You don't say.
You know that's interesting
you should say that because
there was a time I forget
which area code split it was
but there was a time I think
it was diverting and if you
could verify that and also
tell me what the difference
is between the two.
Well if I'm not mistaken and
I'm sure Fiber will correct me
if I am call diverting is
using a physical device to
actually transfer your call
onto a second phone line.
In fact what you mentioned
opens up a whole other
category of things called
diverters which many people
use because when that call
is transferred to the second
line and dialed out on that
second line and the person
that you eventually wind up
speaking to hangs up lots of
times you'll get back the
dial tone that was used to
make that second call.
So this happens a lot with
doctors say you call a doctor's
office and he's gone home so
it forwards to his answering
service or sometimes to his
house as well by making a
physical call on the second
phone line they pick up you
say sorry wrong number or
something like that they hang
up and you get their dial tone
back and what happens is
doctors get bills for huge
amounts of money because they
buy these things called
diverters that really aren't
very secure at least the early
ones were not.
Oh I see so you could call
anywhere in the world on
someone else's tab.
Yeah you know that is that is
basically what it does now call
forwarding goes through the
actual switch the phone company
and you're not jumping onto a
second line there isn't that
that particular kind of
insecurity.
In other words okay so the
diverting as it came out back
in the 60s you were someone had
to have a device in their home
or where that original call was
being sent to shift it to
somewhere else.
A device and a second phone line
yes.
Uh-huh okay and this is totally
and I might also point out that
many times the connections were
absolutely atrocious I don't
know if you've paired lines
together very many times but
sometimes especially in the
early days it just didn't work
out all that well.
Is there anything else that the
Marconi Corporation invented
that that they you know that
goes on radio did a radio.
Yeah they rather invented a
telegraph and wireless yeah a
whole wireless communication.
Right yeah I yeah also second I'm
sorry the is there does your
magazine or do you know of any
place I could go for a glossary of
terms such as the ones you've
been using this evening.
Uh that's a good question one
we're asked quite a bit
actually uh there's some um some
glossaries floating around on
the internet I know that uh see
the problem is if we printed a
glossary of all the terms it would
take up an entire issue and uh and
if you uh if you go through you
know over the years and years that
we've been putting things out
right eventually you'll find
definitions for just about
everything but uh to print it
over and over I imagine somebody
could write a book about that
and just uh just put out you
know terms and definitions and
things like that.
I mean I'm I went to one
meeting but you never showed up
could I write to the magazine for
back issues?
Oh sure yeah.
Okay.
Yeah I'll give you our address uh
so that you can you can deal with
that.
Uh it's uh 2600 magazine and you
can write to P.O. box 752 and
that's Middle Island two words New
York 11953 and uh if you want to
call the office number there is
516-751-2600.
Thanks a lot.
That should get you all the
information you need.
Okay thanks for calling.
Thank you.
And uh let's take another phone
call.
Good evening.
Hello.
Yes go ahead.
I would like to ask a question.
Could you hold on?
Sure.
He's running to turn down his
radio which is always a good
thing to do if you don't want to
get confused.
I have a couple of questions.
Yeah.
One is the following um oh first
of all I called Bell uh uh New
York Telephone and it was about a
third number call that my boss had
got uh and since I know a lot about
phones he had asked me to pursue this
for him.
It was about what?
A third number call.
Okay.
I we got a third he got a third
number call and when I asked why the
operator didn't call for acceptance
they said well we would be denying
well well it was from a regular
phone not a pay phone.
We would be denying service if we
didn't call for acceptance.
Now that I thought was ridiculous
because if you're on a pay phone
you're doing you're denying service
you're calling for acceptance.
Why don't you do it on a home?
The the policy the phone company
has is if you're at a pay phone they
will always call to uh to check with
the third number to see if uh if it's
okay to bill to that third number.
If you're not calling from a pay
phone uh they'll just assume it's
okay.
Um I assume this call did not come
on a pay phone.
No.
So I I think their rationale is that
if it didn't come from a pay phone
then you can at least pin it on
somebody.
Right.
So did they try to do that at
least?
Oh yeah they did that.
Um but since there's so many of
those private.
I think what you can do and I'm
not 100% certain about this but I
think the phone company will block
your lines from uh from accepting
third-party calls.
Don't want your line block.
What if you get calls from pay
phones you know?
Third-party calls.
You talk about third-party calls
not collect calls.
And then somebody else that you
don't know calls from his house or
whatever.
Uh-huh.
Or somebody else's house or
somebody else's office you know?
Yeah.
Well I think it would be good to
have a policy where they always
checked but um I don't know I
guess they only have a few more
few humans working for them now so
they have a lot of things to do.
What is the DS0?
Uh DS0.
Well S1 or DS2.
Yeah DS0 is uh data signaling class
zero.
It's uh 64 kilobits a second.
It's uh the phone company's way of
uh rating digital switches and how
fast they can communicate data.
That's pretty fast.
Well the same as an Erlang?
Well.
No.
Erlang is a unit of traffic
measurement.
Well on the 25 cents for 30 seconds
pay phones in Grand Central and
Penn Station that when I call a
958 number I get the following
message.
I wrote it down here.
It says congratulations you've
reached the 426 I think it's
saying DID code verification
number at the West 36th Street
CG1 office.
Okay well to translate that into
English.
Yeah please.
DID is direct inward dialing and
uh those uh those particular
pay phones must be on a private
telephone system.
It reminds me of the PBX.
That's what PBX is.
Yeah PBXs do use DID.
These are I believe these are
New York telephone pay phones.
Are they?
You know telephone pay phones.
Yeah.
Yeah.
CG1 is a type of analog.
It designates a number one or a
number one AESS usually.
And CG1 just means it's the
second analog switch in that
particular office of number one
and number one A type.
They start numbering with zero and
number upwards.
Okay so is that the one ESS?
Yeah that would be a number one or
a number one AESS.
Now what is the difference between a
DMS digital switch and a five ESS?
And you'll have to make this in a
minute.
Yeah I'll try to knock this off in
under a minute.
A DMS is a lot smaller capacity than
the number five ESS is and number
five ESS's are also a lot faster and
offer a lot better digital switch
capability than the DMS does out of
the box.
Okay and have you ever done a 7-1-1
from Queens?
You get touch tones.
What?
7-1-1.
7-1-1.
That's a new one.
Clushing area you get touch tones.
You dial 7-1-1 and you just get a
touch tone like phone.
Really?
Well we'll have to try that.
Yeah.
I'll keep experimenting though because
that's how we find things like this.
Right.
You can still 4-1-1 by when you make a
second request when they ask you
what's your phone number.
Uh-huh.
Yeah you know like when you make a
second request they say what is your
phone number?
I'll have to charge you.
You'll just say oh I'm at a payphone
or whatever.
Really?
I'm not surprised they're using such a
unsophisticated system.
But then again I'm also surprised they
have the gall to charge you so much
for information.
Are you having a 2,600 meeting this
Friday?
Yes.
I'll give the details one more time
before we go off.
City Corp and by the pay funds right?
Yes.
Thanks for calling.
Yes.
We have six meetings this Friday
coming out.
It's kind of ridiculous actually.
Six meetings in New York, Chicago,
St. Louis, Washington D.C., Los
Angeles and San Francisco.
Again for details on the ones outside
of New York you can call our voice
bulletin board system 0700-751-2600.
And the one in New York takes place
as always at the City Corp Center
between 3rd and Lexington Avenue.
You'll find that hackers are human beings.
Much to everybody's surprise.
That's going to just about do it for us
here tonight.
Another edition of Off the Hook has come
to a close.
And the personal computer show is next.
We'll be back again next week with the
latest in whatever happens in the hacker world.
and there's always something happening
in the hacker world.
Stay tuned to it.
And stay tuned to WBAR New York.
Good night.
The night of Friday,
August the 7th, 3 a.m.
End of the morning of Saturday,
August the 8th, 5 a.m.
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recorded live in the clubs of New York.
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