Off The Hook - 1992-08-12

[00:03.470 --> 00:05.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: ...and regularly contributes to that magazine.
[00:06.590 --> 00:17.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: Second of all, I would agree that the whole concept of a one world government doesn't seem as far-fetched as it used to be at the height of the Cold War when you had this polarization of the entire planet.
[00:18.450 --> 00:36.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I think that the motion toward a one world, even in light of all the nationalist outbreaks, seems to make more sense, given the fact that unless we do have a strength in the United Nations, we're going to continue to see the blood feuds of the last thousand years being played out,
[00:36.810 --> 00:49.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: not along ideological lines, but simply along hatred lines and very petty kinds of considerations that could be very easily raised to the level of genocide like what we're seeing here.
[00:49.370 --> 01:00.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think in that sense, the motion toward a one world government makes a lot more sense than it did at the height of the Cold War, when it seemed virtually impossible, with the United Nations stalled between the two gigantic superpowers.
[01:01.350 --> 01:05.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: And lastly, you mentioned, yeah, why can't WBAI gain more access to the established media?
[01:05.670 --> 01:06.610]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we try.
[01:06.610 --> 01:08.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: We do send press releases out.
[01:08.650 --> 01:11.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: However, there is something called self-censorship.
[01:11.210 --> 01:18.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: That is, if you're part of the established media and you tend to be sympathetic toward many of the positions of WBAI, you realize that your boss has a blue pencil.
[01:18.930 --> 01:23.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you stick your neck out too much, he may use that blue pencil on your paycheck.
[01:23.350 --> 01:32.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: So there is something called self-censorship, even though, of course, it's not this monolithic conspiracy, especially in the smaller communities.
[01:32.430 --> 01:36.870]  [SPEAKER_00]: There definitely is self-censorship going on the editorial boards of media outlets.
[01:37.330 --> 01:39.550]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, unfortunately, time is up.
[01:39.870 --> 01:41.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is Dr. Michio Kaku.
[01:41.890 --> 01:43.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: And again, this has been Exploration.
[01:43.750 --> 01:50.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: And starting next week, we're going to have coverage of the Republican National Convention, aired from Houston, Texas.
[01:51.010 --> 02:02.130]  [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, on Monday and Wednesday of next week, in the evening, I'll be part of the evening commentary, commenting on the Republican National Platform's position on weapons and the environment.
[02:02.650 --> 02:05.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, unfortunately, that's all we have for Exploration.
[02:05.630 --> 02:11.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is Dr. Michio Kaku, Professor of Nuclear Physics at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York.
[02:11.290 --> 02:20.890]  [SPEAKER_00]: And this has been a weekly program that airs every Wednesday evening from 8 o'clock to 9 o'clock and discusses the issue of war, peace, and the environment.
[02:21.090 --> 02:21.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening.
[02:38.120 --> 02:40.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: The following preview has been approved for all audiences.
[02:41.740 --> 02:42.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Come closer.
[02:43.580 --> 02:44.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: I want to talk to you.
[02:45.540 --> 02:47.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm going to tell you an astounding story.
[02:47.740 --> 02:51.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Would you like to know what she was going to give me when those rats showed up?
[02:51.440 --> 02:52.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Would you like to know?
[02:52.260 --> 02:52.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Help!
[02:52.860 --> 02:53.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Help!
[02:53.400 --> 02:54.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's insane!
[02:54.280 --> 02:55.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Everything you've heard is true.
[02:56.080 --> 02:59.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's the biggest entertainment that ever hit the screen with laughter.
[03:02.020 --> 03:06.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the whole shocking story of Hollywood Ripped Bear for the first time.
[03:07.020 --> 03:09.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: All mixed up with Peter Beauchamp.
[03:09.260 --> 03:11.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: Monday mornings at 9.30, here on WBAI.
[03:11.740 --> 03:12.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: WBAI.
[03:18.870 --> 03:19.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yo bo seo.
[03:20.490 --> 03:21.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: Ani hasimnika.
[03:21.750 --> 03:22.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm Michael G.
[03:22.890 --> 03:25.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Haskins, host of Half Past 3 with Michael G.
[03:25.950 --> 03:31.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Late night, early morning radio coming your way alternating Tuesdays, 3.30 to 6 a.m.
[03:32.010 --> 03:44.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: The only program in the metropolitan area dedicated to late night workers, early morning risers, and people who are out where they've got no business being with someone they've got no business being with.
[03:44.910 --> 03:49.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good music, additional information, and you on the landline.
[03:49.790 --> 03:57.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Whatever your pleasure, join me every other Tuesday morning, 3.30 to 6, for Half Past 3 with Michael G.
[03:57.710 --> 04:03.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: Over non-commercial WBAI 99.5 FM, New York.
[04:04.250 --> 04:06.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's the station you're listening to now.
[04:06.750 --> 04:11.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's just about 9 o'clock, which means, once again, it's time for Off the Hook.
[06:30.590 --> 06:32.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: And a very good evening to one and all.
[06:32.030 --> 06:33.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: The program is Off the Hook.
[06:33.350 --> 06:40.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein with you until 10 o'clock, talking about high-tech, low intelligence, and the changing world therein.
[06:40.510 --> 06:55.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll be taking phone calls for a good part of the evening with questions, comments, observations, that kind of thing, on computer hackers, changing technology, your own personal experiences, and things of that nature.
[06:57.910 --> 07:01.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Our number is 212-279-3400.
[07:01.210 --> 07:03.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Leave off the 212 if you're in the area code.
[07:03.510 --> 07:04.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Add a 9 if you're inside an office.
[07:05.110 --> 07:06.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, of course, dial 1, where appropriate.
[07:15.190 --> 07:22.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, there comes a time in everybody's life when you have to sort of face the inevitable.
[07:23.200 --> 07:36.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that time came for me back in my senior year of high school when I realized that I was a hacker.
[07:38.380 --> 07:57.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: And now, after a good deal of counseling and, you know, self-observation, looking deep within one's soul, you realize that what started off as just a game of curiosity has become something so much more complicated, so much more meaningful.
[07:58.800 --> 08:05.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I guess that's similar to various endeavors people get involved with throughout the course of their lives.
[08:05.500 --> 08:15.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: You wouldn't think that just playing with a computer after school, and I'm talking about a DEC-10 system.
[08:18.150 --> 08:18.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[08:19.560 --> 08:24.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: One of the oldest computers I can possibly think of, one of the slowest computers I can possibly think of.
[08:24.460 --> 08:28.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is back in the days when 300 baud was considered fast.
[08:29.710 --> 08:32.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, these days, 9600 baud is considered slow.
[08:35.500 --> 08:45.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: But that particular chain of events led like a stepping stone to a series of different events.
[08:51.580 --> 09:07.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: And now today we have a world where computer hackers are looked upon as tantamounted terrorists, where freedom of speech is being threatened on a daily basis, and where nobody really knows what lies ahead.
[09:10.770 --> 09:19.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, you know, when you get involved with something like this, you don't think that you're doing it to change the world or to make a significant difference.
[09:19.410 --> 09:21.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're just out to have fun.
[09:22.150 --> 09:23.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're out to explore.
[09:23.510 --> 09:25.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're out to answer those questions nobody else will.
[09:26.510 --> 09:32.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you wander around and you do things that some people will frown upon, others won't understand.
[09:33.330 --> 09:38.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: And there are those few that will actually condemn what you do and think that you're dangerous.
[09:39.890 --> 09:44.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: And throughout my early hacking years, that's precisely what happened.
[09:44.690 --> 09:55.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I'd plod along trying to find things out, trying to learn how particular systems work, exploring where some people say you shouldn't explore, making free phone calls, figuring out how the whole network works.
[09:55.930 --> 10:01.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then you translate that into something that could be a bit more meaningful.
[10:01.830 --> 10:05.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: You try to communicate with more people and share knowledge.
[10:05.750 --> 10:13.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: And right about that time is when you get hit with your first count of conspiracy and, you know, trying to overthrow various governments and things like that.
[10:13.330 --> 10:20.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because when they see you talking to other people and teaching other people and learning from other people, that is when you become dangerous.
[10:20.750 --> 10:26.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Communication has always been the biggest fear of those in power.
[10:26.410 --> 10:27.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Communication amongst the masses.
[10:28.210 --> 10:35.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's partly why phone calls are made rather difficult for most people to obtain legally.
[10:35.990 --> 10:41.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: That is, calling around the world, speaking to people whenever you want to speak to, for however long you want to speak to them.
[10:41.890 --> 10:44.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's always something that's just a little bit out of reach.
[10:47.230 --> 10:53.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, computer hackers and phone freaks know that that's not necessarily so, that it is possible to communicate with anybody, any time.
[10:54.270 --> 10:57.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's only a question of desire, knowledge, and skill.
[10:58.290 --> 11:17.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: And as the years passed by, I found myself more and more involved in spreading information and learning things from people that I've never met, people around the world, and finding that same curiosity, that same desire to share information.
[11:19.070 --> 11:29.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: And as we get closer to the present day, it's become so much more apparent that there's a bigger picture here than just playing games with computers and phones.
[11:29.310 --> 11:37.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a question of control, a question of power, a question of what people wish to prevent us from actually doing and having.
[11:39.170 --> 11:48.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: And as we progress into the 90s, we realize that this is a fight that's not going to end, not in a conceivable future.
[11:48.890 --> 12:03.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right now, we're playing on the front line as far as freedom of information, freedom of technology, and who would ever think that when you get involved with something as a kid that it can progress to something so serious?
[12:04.890 --> 12:13.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's, I guess, a word of maybe warning to people out there that are just starting out because it leads to interesting things.
[12:13.410 --> 12:17.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't regret any of this because it's fascinating.
[12:17.550 --> 12:20.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's more fascinating with every passing year.
[12:21.430 --> 12:28.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: But if you're looking for something just to pass the time and that's it, you might get more than you bargained for.
[12:30.810 --> 12:38.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, a lot of times you have to also do the unpopular thing to stand up for your beliefs.
[12:38.510 --> 12:41.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's something that hacking has taught me more than anything.
[12:41.490 --> 12:43.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: You wouldn't think that based on what the media says.
[12:43.490 --> 12:46.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: You would think that hacking is something that degenerates you and makes you lose all your values.
[12:46.750 --> 12:56.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: But in actuality, I've gotten most of my values through hacking, through communicating with people, through realizing what the difference is between right and wrong.
[12:56.930 --> 13:02.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: And lots of times, you will see right and wrong right there in your own community.
[13:03.370 --> 13:13.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the question is, do you know when to speak up and when not to speak up?
[13:14.930 --> 13:16.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Interesting question, I think.
[13:17.470 --> 13:21.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Our number is 212-279-3400.
[13:21.470 --> 13:28.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we're going to take some phone calls, answer some questions, and spread a bit of information in that way of ours.
[13:29.070 --> 13:30.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Here's a bit of information.
[13:31.930 --> 13:37.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: A book has come out called The National 800-900 Telephone Service Code Book.
[13:37.750 --> 13:39.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sounds really illegal, I suppose.
[13:40.050 --> 13:46.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: A directory of the hidden codes in 800 and 900 long-distance phone numbers, plus a listing of long-distance carrier access codes.
[13:47.290 --> 13:49.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: 1,641 listings.
[13:50.070 --> 13:51.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's kind of silly, actually.
[13:52.230 --> 13:56.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: This book really contains things that are not hidden.
[13:56.550 --> 13:58.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, anybody can find out this information.
[13:59.170 --> 14:03.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's not a code book in that it has illegal information or anything like that.
[14:03.870 --> 14:06.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is all information that people have the right to know.
[14:06.730 --> 14:11.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: For instance, what telephone exchanges are carried by what long-distance companies.
[14:11.550 --> 14:12.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'll read you what's on the back of this book.
[14:13.530 --> 14:22.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Did you know that the first three digits after the 800 in every toll-free phone number are a hidden code identifying the specific long-distance carrier handling the call?
[14:23.150 --> 14:24.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, Jiminy Cricket.
[14:26.750 --> 14:28.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm knocked over by that.
[14:28.510 --> 14:29.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Same with 900 numbers.
[14:30.050 --> 14:36.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Did you know that every long-distance phone company has a three-digit dial-up code number for directly accessing its facilities from any phone?
[14:38.430 --> 14:55.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Private direct access numbers are also held by states, federal agencies, military switchboards, banks, satellite companies, data and computer services, emergency networks, credit card companies, radio paging services, and large corporations for their own internal voice and data communications.
[14:57.650 --> 15:02.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: This unique reference guide for the first time offers the key to all of these hidden codes.
[15:02.190 --> 15:09.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: In addition, an explanation of 800 service, 900 service, and direct access CIC codes is provided along with other information.
[15:09.390 --> 15:20.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: This data can be put to many professional uses or to add to one's hobby interest in communications or merely used to keep a person informed regarding systems encountered by most of us on a daily basis.
[15:20.950 --> 15:24.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Don't get me wrong, I think the idea for this book is great.
[15:24.350 --> 15:30.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think these kind of books should be passed around and people should learn this information.
[15:30.430 --> 15:33.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: But there's nothing secret about this.
[15:33.810 --> 15:35.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is public information.
[15:35.110 --> 15:37.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the kind of thing that should be passed along.
[15:37.810 --> 15:50.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: For instance, me telling you that the 800 exchange of 788 belongs to Sprint.
[15:50.990 --> 15:53.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now that's not exactly earth-shattering news.
[15:53.310 --> 15:56.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: You won't see that on World News Tonight or anything like that.
[15:57.530 --> 15:59.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: But it's information that's in this book.
[15:59.550 --> 16:00.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's information that people should know.
[16:01.010 --> 16:06.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the kind of thing that people deserve to know.
[16:06.810 --> 16:12.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'll read you a short piece in here and I'll tell you how to obtain this book if you're so interested in it.
[16:12.490 --> 16:14.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's called Making It Hard for Hackers.
[16:14.290 --> 16:26.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: UNIX System Laboratories AT&T of Summit, New Jersey produces computer software that is used by universities, telephone companies, corporations, financial institutions, and others.
[16:27.510 --> 16:43.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Noting that many of the users of their software maintain vital records and files, UNIX has developed software that the company claims is impervious to hackers attempting to break in via telephone to cut checks, change credits, school or employment records,
[16:43.330 --> 16:46.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: or pry industrial, military, and other secrets from unattended computers.
[16:46.910 --> 16:50.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, of course, it's not the kind of thing hackers generally do.
[16:50.390 --> 16:53.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: They do break in, but they don't tend to steal things.
[16:54.450 --> 17:03.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, of course, we all know when AT&T says that something is impregnable, we know just how much value to put into that.
[17:03.710 --> 17:15.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: As of this writing, UNIX claims that nobody has been able to hack through their security system, and UNIX has proudly challenged any would-be intruder to best or worst at, uh...
[17:15.790 --> 17:18.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, I'm sorry, I skipped a couple of lines there because it's at the bottom of the page.
[17:19.050 --> 17:20.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Any would-be intruder to give it a whirl.
[17:20.990 --> 17:28.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: The company has established a toll-free dial-up number hackers could use to do their best or worst at attempting to get through the system.
[17:28.790 --> 17:33.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: The new UNIX software has been redesigned specifically to dumbfound hackers.
[17:33.730 --> 17:43.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: The people who run most corporate mainframe computers, they're called systems administrators, usually have free access to their systems via special super-user logins.
[17:44.130 --> 17:52.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Under the new security-enhanced UNIX system, this all-powerful omnipotent user has been eliminated and basically roles have been assigned.
[17:52.970 --> 17:59.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: For instance, someone doing a file system backup can do only backup and cannot read the contents of files.
[17:59.930 --> 18:01.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: At, uh...
[18:01.110 --> 18:03.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: publication time, the, uh...
[18:03.970 --> 18:06.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: toll-free hacker test number had not been announced.
[18:06.170 --> 18:12.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Those interested might wish to check directly with UNIX to find out the number and confirm that the test is still in effect.
[18:12.690 --> 18:20.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Their telephone number is 1-800-233-1222.
[18:21.790 --> 18:22.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, uh...
[18:22.590 --> 18:23.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: we welcome, uh...
[18:23.470 --> 18:25.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: any feedback as to what exactly, uh...
[18:25.610 --> 18:27.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: can be found at that particular number.
[18:28.470 --> 18:29.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: The, uh...
[18:29.470 --> 18:33.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: National 800-900 Telephone Service Codebook is, uh...
[18:33.030 --> 18:36.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: obtainable from CRB Research Books Incorporated.
[18:36.750 --> 18:37.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, uh...
[18:37.430 --> 18:38.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: they publish all kinds of interesting things.
[18:38.730 --> 18:40.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Written by Kenneth Sperry.
[18:40.890 --> 18:41.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, uh...
[18:41.610 --> 18:43.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: CRB Research can be reached at P.O.
[18:43.510 --> 18:46.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Box 56, Comac, New York, 11725.
[18:47.090 --> 18:49.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they may very well have put out some, uh...
[18:49.370 --> 18:51.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: some more material like this since, uh...
[18:51.950 --> 18:52.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: this book has come out.
[18:53.810 --> 18:54.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh...
[18:54.210 --> 18:54.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Again, a...
[18:54.810 --> 18:57.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: a guide to 800 and 900, uh...
[18:57.950 --> 18:58.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: prefixes.
[18:58.510 --> 19:00.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, I should also point out that that's about to change.
[19:01.050 --> 19:02.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's going to be a period where, um...
[19:02.870 --> 19:04.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: you won't be able to tell.
[19:04.230 --> 19:08.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: In other words, while 788 may be, uh...
[19:08.110 --> 19:08.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: U.S.
[19:08.570 --> 19:15.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sprint, in the future, every single 800 number is going to go to a unique company.
[19:15.370 --> 19:16.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: In other words, uh...
[19:16.190 --> 19:18.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: 788 1, 2, 3, 4 could be Sprint.
[19:18.370 --> 19:20.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: 1, 2, 3, 5 could be MCI.
[19:21.510 --> 19:23.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: It won't necessarily, uh...
[19:23.350 --> 19:25.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: be dependent upon the exchanges.
[19:25.450 --> 19:31.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, we're talking about technology that changes so quickly it's, uh...
[19:31.630 --> 19:33.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: kind of hard to have a book to keep up with it.
[19:33.730 --> 19:35.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: You need more of a, uh...
[19:35.550 --> 19:38.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: a computer program, really, that keeps updating itself every day.
[19:39.530 --> 19:41.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sort of like directory assistance or something like that.
[19:42.930 --> 19:44.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, we're going to, uh...
[19:44.230 --> 19:45.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: take some phone calls.
[19:48.090 --> 19:50.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-279-3400.
[19:50.410 --> 19:51.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's our telephone number.
[19:52.510 --> 19:54.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Give us a call and, uh...
[19:54.510 --> 19:56.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: tell us what is on your mind.
[19:56.070 --> 19:56.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's, uh...
[19:56.490 --> 19:57.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: go to the phones.
[19:57.730 --> 19:58.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[19:59.450 --> 19:59.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi.
[19:59.970 --> 20:00.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: How you doing?
[20:00.370 --> 20:03.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have a very exciting call, but I'd like to, uh...
[20:03.850 --> 20:05.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, can you tell me, uh...
[20:05.690 --> 20:08.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: on an ordinary telephone line, there's a, uh...
[20:08.890 --> 20:13.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: a red and a green, and which is when the line is open and the positive side?
[20:14.490 --> 20:14.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh...
[20:14.890 --> 20:15.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's a very, uh...
[20:15.830 --> 20:17.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: basic question there.
[20:17.850 --> 20:18.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um...
[20:18.210 --> 20:28.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't seem to be any of the textbooks, and I realize a lot of phones don't seem to be sensitive to the polarity, but I do believe if you're hooking up a system, you'd be smart to hook it up the way that...
[20:28.630 --> 20:31.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: These days, I don't think it really makes a difference that much.
[20:31.610 --> 20:33.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I believe red is tip, or...
[20:33.630 --> 20:33.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[20:34.050 --> 20:34.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: I never even paid it...
[20:34.810 --> 20:37.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: To give you an example, I never even paid attention to that.
[20:38.790 --> 20:40.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, you can change the polarity.
[20:41.090 --> 20:42.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to have to call a phone company.
[20:42.930 --> 20:43.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, you definitely don't.
[20:43.630 --> 20:44.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's the only thing I can do.
[20:44.290 --> 20:45.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: You don't want to do that.
[20:45.670 --> 20:48.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, they won't tell you anyway, and if they do tell you, it'll be completely wrong.
[20:50.350 --> 20:51.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: What exactly are you trying to do?
[20:51.370 --> 20:52.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Are you just trying to hook up a phone?
[20:52.070 --> 20:54.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just hooking up, you know, wiring a phone system.
[20:55.590 --> 20:55.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[20:57.210 --> 21:04.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I was just kind of curious at what the proper way to do it, because the first line is usually red and green, and the second line, I guess, is black and yellow.
[21:04.610 --> 21:07.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: As long as it's the same on both ends.
[21:07.510 --> 21:10.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: You see, that's really all you have to worry about, because, you know, you're plugging...
[21:10.970 --> 21:13.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, you have a red wire and a green wire going from point A to point B.
[21:14.110 --> 21:15.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, the wires are the same.
[21:15.990 --> 21:16.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're not any different.
[21:17.150 --> 21:18.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: So as long as you're hooking...
[21:18.950 --> 21:19.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: I understand.
[21:31.690 --> 21:33.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: red is one way, green is the other way.
[21:33.770 --> 21:35.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: So while I can say, you know, red is positive...
[21:35.830 --> 21:39.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, be consistent, I guess, and if I discover it's wrong, versus where I started.
[21:39.370 --> 21:42.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: You'll know very quickly if it's hooked up wrong, and if it's hooked up...
[21:42.250 --> 21:43.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: You only have two choices.
[21:43.530 --> 21:44.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Polarity sensitive.
[21:44.470 --> 21:47.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: You don't need all four wires, like, you know, it was used in the past.
[21:47.630 --> 21:48.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Nobody uses ground anymore.
[21:49.250 --> 22:09.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: One other question that's quite interesting, it has to do with call waiting, and, you know, your friends, and they're interesting, the phone freaks, I really do get bothered where people feel that they have impunity to enter into other people's private worlds.
[22:09.750 --> 22:12.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, what makes you think hackers are the ones that are guilty of that?
[22:12.230 --> 22:17.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think human beings are guilty of it, and if people have developed that power...
[22:17.810 --> 22:24.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the article in the New York Times a couple of weeks ago seemed to indicate that the hackers got kind of bugged at each other, and...
[22:24.530 --> 22:27.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you know, I'll be honest, that article was a travesty.
[22:27.490 --> 22:35.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: I talked to that reporter for at least an hour, and he did not print anything, any even conception of what I tried to explain to him.
[22:35.810 --> 22:42.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: He had the story written from the start, apparently, and made it seem as if we had a couple of roving hacker gangs that are fighting against each other.
[22:42.890 --> 22:43.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's not the case at all.
[22:43.970 --> 22:45.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Why don't you talk about it on the air then?
[22:45.450 --> 22:46.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's what I'm doing.
[22:46.570 --> 22:48.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: We've got individual people.
[22:48.970 --> 22:49.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just want to know if...
[22:49.730 --> 23:05.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sorry, I want to know if you got that impression from reading the article at all, that we're not talking about roving gangs, we're talking about individual people that are into this kind of thing, that each have a different case that, you know, are not really harming anybody.
[23:06.110 --> 23:07.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I'm sure that's not the impression you got.
[23:07.530 --> 23:20.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the impression that I got is that they had gotten certain kinds of information concerning their credit record and were making it public or misusing it in ways or even phoning it up into systems.
[23:20.330 --> 23:26.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't totally clear what they were doing wrong, but, you know, even the intention of doing it is kind of stepping over the line.
[23:26.990 --> 23:32.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, the thing is, you know, you can say that somebody posted a credit report someplace.
[23:32.530 --> 23:32.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sure.
[23:33.170 --> 23:37.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, somebody can say this person did it, somebody else will say this other person did it.
[23:37.450 --> 23:40.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's really impossible to say who did and who did not.
[23:40.890 --> 23:42.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you can do it other ways besides hacking.
[23:42.890 --> 23:48.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can be an attorney and file an incorrect legal report into a credit area.
[23:48.210 --> 23:58.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you think that these teenage kids are the only people that are seeing our credit reports, you know, that's something you're definitely missing because anybody can do it.
[23:58.650 --> 24:09.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think what UNIX is doing is if what you said earlier, I had not heard of this, is the most intelligent thing, you know, which is to dare people to break their system rather than get involved in this legal BS.
[24:10.030 --> 24:14.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you know, a lot of those dares are really kind of tainted because, you know, they...
[24:15.050 --> 24:17.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: My view on that, there was a company that did this a few years ago.
[24:17.830 --> 24:21.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: They said that they had some kind of a dare, even though I don't know anybody that took it up.
[24:21.450 --> 24:23.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: They said 10,000 hackers tried to break in and they couldn't.
[24:24.170 --> 24:28.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: And my challenge to them was, well, okay, if it's so secure, why don't you tell us who's using the system now?
[24:29.270 --> 24:31.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we'll see if we can break into that because using...
[24:31.510 --> 24:35.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, if they make the dare reasonable and put a little cash up front...
[24:35.490 --> 24:37.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you see, you don't know what they...
[24:37.110 --> 24:39.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: They could just have a modem hooked up to nothing, you see?
[24:40.150 --> 24:45.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you don't know for sure what's there until you see it in use, in actual use.
[24:45.330 --> 24:50.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: So if it is such a secure system and nobody can get in, then what's the harm of telling us who is actually using the system?
[24:50.290 --> 24:54.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: And see if maybe we can get information through social engineering, trashing...
[24:54.430 --> 24:55.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I'm sure that...
[24:55.010 --> 24:56.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: ...through all the usual ways.
[24:56.550 --> 25:00.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it seemed that was the way things were revealed anyhow.
[25:00.970 --> 25:01.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[25:01.650 --> 25:03.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, either through college connections...
[25:03.290 --> 25:10.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, then if that's the case, then the test is completely useless because obviously those conditions won't be there if it's an isolated test.
[25:10.750 --> 25:15.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: There won't be any social interaction, there won't be any trashing, there won't be anything that we can actually get information from.
[25:16.170 --> 25:27.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, Well, it's a complicated thing, and the real problem is that the people in managing systems are lazy, in my opinion, and they don't really want to put out the work to look at all the possibilities.
[25:27.810 --> 25:32.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: So they tend to leave the doors open and then go bananas when somebody walks through.
[25:32.570 --> 25:53.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, yeah, it's ridiculous because, you know, I was reading about insurance policies now that the phone company is offering to various other companies to protect their phone bills, basically, because now it's actually toll fraud, you know, abuse of phone companies or abuse of,
[25:53.590 --> 25:55.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: you know, calling cards or whatever.
[25:55.690 --> 26:07.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's become a business of sorts for the phone companies because now they sell insurance at huge rates to companies to protect them in case somebody figures out how to use their phone system and make all kinds of free calls all around the world.
[26:07.870 --> 26:17.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: What we've actually done is we've created such a fragile system here where it's very easy for somebody simply by pressing a few buttons to cause tens of thousands of dollars in damage.
[26:17.730 --> 26:26.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, I ask, do you blame the person who is really not doing anything that different than somebody who would say, you know, shoplift something in the past?
[26:26.670 --> 26:32.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do you blame him with causing tens of thousands of dollars of damage when the intent was pretty much the same as shoplifting?
[26:32.450 --> 26:32.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well...
[26:32.850 --> 26:37.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or do we blame people that design systems that are so fragile that somebody can go in there and do something that easily?
[26:37.670 --> 26:39.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: In the past, you never could have done something like this.
[26:39.790 --> 26:45.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: Even more bizarre than shoplifting is how these guys figure out what these costs are, which is totally insane.
[26:45.710 --> 26:50.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they have any idea whether something's worth a dime or $50 million.
[26:50.670 --> 26:59.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, they say they have these vastly overinflated costs of what things cost, whether it's documents, phone calls, use of a computer system.
[26:59.830 --> 27:01.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the government just believes them.
[27:02.050 --> 27:04.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: They just believe whatever they say without checking it out.
[27:04.610 --> 27:11.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they charge people with crimes of stealing millions of dollars when it's, in fact, just copying a file or something as simple as that.
[27:11.150 --> 27:16.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like a cellular phone at a buck a minute or something, plus or minus 50 cents, is insane.
[27:17.110 --> 27:17.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[27:17.550 --> 27:19.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's not clear that...
[27:19.230 --> 27:24.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, one of the things that occurred years before...
[27:24.450 --> 27:24.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Excuse me?
[27:24.850 --> 27:25.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello?
[27:25.270 --> 27:30.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is the New York telephone operator with an emergency interruption for 212-279-3400.
[27:30.470 --> 27:31.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Operator, can you tell them to go away?
[27:31.750 --> 27:32.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're on the air.
[27:32.890 --> 27:34.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: And tell them not to do that again.
[27:34.610 --> 27:35.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I'm sorry about that.
[27:35.690 --> 27:36.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, that's okay.
[27:36.930 --> 27:38.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's kind of clever, I guess, to break into...
[27:38.870 --> 27:40.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was me, but it didn't make any sense.
[27:41.110 --> 27:41.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: No.
[27:42.110 --> 27:42.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyhow...
[27:42.470 --> 27:44.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: I wouldn't have let your phone number go out over the air, but...
[27:44.570 --> 27:44.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[27:45.230 --> 27:46.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: But that was...
[27:46.070 --> 27:47.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: No one ever did that before in this show.
[27:47.770 --> 27:48.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't have to say that.
[27:48.590 --> 27:49.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's all very exciting.
[27:49.630 --> 27:50.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: It just...
[27:50.070 --> 27:52.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, one of the things that they had discovered...
[27:52.410 --> 27:53.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: Cost me a dollar a fifty.
[27:53.070 --> 27:56.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: ...when the government investigated the books of the phone company when they were a monopoly...
[27:56.510 --> 27:56.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[27:56.810 --> 28:04.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: ...was that frequently the phone company was so lazy, it just wouldn't take advantages of all sorts of tricks in the tax code.
[28:04.210 --> 28:08.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: That if it had been a competitive situation, it would have...
[28:09.350 --> 28:12.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: It could have reduced its costs here and there and everywhere.
[28:12.830 --> 28:18.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: But because it was a monopoly, it didn't feel any obligation to reduce its costs.
[28:18.490 --> 28:24.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it would just merely announce to the PUC what it needed, and they'd give it to them.
[28:25.090 --> 28:25.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[28:26.010 --> 28:26.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[28:26.390 --> 28:36.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the play into the fact is that one of the things I don't understand is why the cable companies can't get into the phone business and create a competition there.
[28:36.330 --> 28:39.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you see, I would support that if, you know...
[28:39.070 --> 28:40.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I support that right away without any conditions.
[28:41.450 --> 28:52.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: I would support the phone companies getting into the cable business, which, you know, is the converse of what you say, if there was competition on the local level with phone companies, if we had a choice of via telephone or something else.
[28:52.550 --> 28:57.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: They should both be in competition with each other, and hopefully it would be real competition rather than pretend competition.
[28:57.690 --> 28:57.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[28:57.950 --> 29:01.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I think there should be more competition on all levels.
[29:01.070 --> 29:02.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not just with two companies.
[29:02.090 --> 29:03.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not just the cable company and the phone company.
[29:03.590 --> 29:05.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: There should be a whole lot, you know?
[29:05.570 --> 29:06.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Five or six different companies.
[29:07.230 --> 29:08.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, yes.
[29:08.150 --> 29:12.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, but, you know, the point was that the original argument was that we can't afford all these wires overhead.
[29:12.850 --> 29:17.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's getting ridiculously simple to do now.
[29:17.490 --> 29:19.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's all kinds of fiber-optic technology.
[29:19.530 --> 29:21.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's really no limit to what we can do.
[29:21.430 --> 29:21.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[29:21.830 --> 29:23.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, the game changes, but the rules don't.
[29:24.270 --> 29:29.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you see, that's an interesting point, because we are playing by the rules of big business.
[29:30.270 --> 29:35.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: And what you're seeing... You know, a lot of people think that this whole hacking thing is just a bunch of kids playing around.
[29:35.190 --> 29:38.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Like I said a few minutes ago, it gets into something much bigger than that.
[29:38.690 --> 29:46.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it starts out with kids playing around, but it turns into something, a very real conflict of individual needs and big business needs.
[29:46.930 --> 29:49.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, it's the contrary worlds.
[29:49.990 --> 29:58.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: The big business world talks in tens of thousands of dollars for a 10-page document or something like that, whereas an individual sees it as something fairly meaningless.
[29:58.370 --> 30:03.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: While individuals get more and more control over technology, you're going to see more and more of a conflict between these two worlds.
[30:04.530 --> 30:05.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm sure that's true.
[30:05.790 --> 30:13.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm sure that you just have to look what went on in China with the faxes that made everybody very nervous in China at the time.
[30:13.550 --> 30:17.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's, you know, a widely publicized example of individual control over technology.
[30:17.770 --> 30:19.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: But you're going to see some more dramatic examples of that.
[30:19.990 --> 30:20.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sure.
[30:20.370 --> 30:26.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: With computer networks and phone devices that can do all kinds of interesting things.
[30:27.430 --> 30:29.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's, you know, a lot of interesting things ahead.
[30:29.670 --> 30:32.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Technology is definitely the place to be at this particular time in history.
[30:32.930 --> 30:37.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we have the education president who can't even find the on-off switch in his computer.
[30:38.090 --> 30:41.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, well, we'll write him up in the history books.
[30:41.810 --> 30:42.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Take care.
[30:42.350 --> 30:42.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[30:42.870 --> 30:43.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you.
[30:43.410 --> 30:45.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-279-3400.
[30:45.190 --> 30:48.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you get a busy signal, just try again and be patient.
[30:48.650 --> 30:49.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: That costs $1.50 to do that.
[30:50.050 --> 30:52.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know that, to break into a phone call like that.
[30:53.510 --> 30:54.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[30:54.310 --> 30:54.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on the air.
[30:56.030 --> 30:57.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you're not on the air anymore.
[30:58.070 --> 30:58.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[30:58.690 --> 30:59.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on the air.
[30:59.170 --> 30:59.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hi.
[31:00.130 --> 31:01.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have some questions.
[31:01.790 --> 31:03.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: I bet you that was a computer hacker that did that.
[31:05.230 --> 31:08.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, yeah, you know, somebody that knows how to ask for things from the operator.
[31:08.970 --> 31:10.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, I have a question.
[31:11.470 --> 31:14.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: Where I work, we have a PBX with voicemail and things like that.
[31:15.070 --> 31:16.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a DID directed more dialing PBX.
[31:16.950 --> 31:17.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right, yeah.
[31:17.650 --> 31:21.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: And what they do is, on certain phones, they make it so that you can't dial long distance.
[31:21.930 --> 31:23.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: When you dial 9, and then you try to dial long distance.
[31:23.830 --> 31:24.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[31:24.290 --> 31:30.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: And what it also does is it makes it so that you can't dial 0 or 00 or 10XXX.
[31:31.210 --> 31:31.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[31:31.610 --> 31:33.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I found a way to break that.
[31:33.470 --> 31:33.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[31:33.870 --> 31:35.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wait, let me see if I can figure this out.
[31:35.590 --> 31:36.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a way to break that.
[31:37.190 --> 31:39.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can't dial carrier access codes.
[31:39.510 --> 31:42.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can't dial 1+, doesn't allow 1+.
[31:42.390 --> 31:43.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[31:43.430 --> 31:45.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Doesn't allow 0 or 00.
[31:46.810 --> 31:47.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's see.
[31:47.490 --> 31:48.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: What else could you possibly try?
[31:48.550 --> 31:51.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: How about tripping down to a dial tone after it connects to something else?
[31:51.390 --> 31:52.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do the same restrictions apply?
[31:53.310 --> 31:54.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: What do you mean by that?
[31:54.450 --> 31:58.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, let's say you call something, somebody hangs up, and then the phone just goes back to a dial tone.
[32:00.030 --> 32:03.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sometimes, I don't know if it's a physical hardware device that's attached to that one.
[32:03.170 --> 32:03.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: How about that?
[32:03.350 --> 32:04.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: I never tried that.
[32:04.310 --> 32:04.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, try that.
[32:05.330 --> 32:08.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then just dial 0, and it might go through.
[32:08.450 --> 32:11.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's 90% of the case is how things work.
[32:11.770 --> 32:14.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: How about, you say you can't dial 1+, either.
[32:14.450 --> 32:15.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, right, that's correct.
[32:15.870 --> 32:16.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Really?
[32:16.170 --> 32:17.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you can really only dial...
[32:17.590 --> 32:20.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: How do you, wait, how do you dial 718, say?
[32:20.590 --> 32:21.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have to dial 1 for that.
[32:21.530 --> 32:22.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you can dial 1, 718.
[32:22.730 --> 32:24.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's like the only area code you can dial.
[32:24.670 --> 32:25.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: I see.
[32:25.130 --> 32:26.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: So all the area codes are blocked.
[32:27.170 --> 32:29.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Supposing you dial the non-existent area code.
[32:29.490 --> 32:30.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: What do you mean non-existent area code?
[32:30.850 --> 32:33.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Something like 910 or something like that.
[32:34.370 --> 32:35.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: It gives you a reorder tone.
[32:36.610 --> 32:36.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Really?
[32:38.330 --> 32:41.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Again, reorder sometimes, time out and trip down to dial tones.
[32:42.550 --> 32:45.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Trying to think if there's something else that might work.
[32:46.750 --> 32:48.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm kind of stumped at the moment.
[32:48.150 --> 32:48.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's not to say I wouldn't...
[32:48.930 --> 32:49.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let me tell you my system.
[32:49.850 --> 32:50.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: My way, I mean...
[32:50.730 --> 32:54.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Pound signs, stars, sometimes they do weird things.
[32:55.030 --> 32:55.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Pound signs...
[32:55.610 --> 32:56.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, I got it.
[32:56.370 --> 32:56.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: I got it.
[32:56.970 --> 33:00.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: You get something like call forward...
[33:00.830 --> 33:02.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, not call forwarding, but speed dialing.
[33:02.470 --> 33:05.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you speed dial and program that to go to an operator.
[33:05.210 --> 33:07.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sometimes that will bypass whatever restrictions...
[33:07.690 --> 33:08.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hardware restrictions.
[33:08.430 --> 33:09.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the best I can come up with.
[33:09.710 --> 33:11.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, but what my idea was is that...
[33:11.950 --> 33:14.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know 9591230, right?
[33:14.370 --> 33:15.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Coin test.
[33:15.210 --> 33:15.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[33:15.610 --> 33:16.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's run by AT&T.
[33:17.130 --> 33:19.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: So if you dial that from...
[33:19.070 --> 33:21.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you just dial 9, get a dial tone.
[33:21.430 --> 33:21.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's a dial tone.
[33:22.090 --> 33:23.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: And dial 9591230.
[33:23.950 --> 33:25.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Get an AT&T operator.
[33:25.550 --> 33:26.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you could say to the operator...
[33:26.810 --> 33:27.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[33:27.330 --> 33:28.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: I dialed the wrong number.
[33:28.170 --> 33:28.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wait, wait, wait.
[33:29.670 --> 33:30.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wait, wait, wait a minute.
[33:31.030 --> 33:31.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wait a minute.
[33:31.510 --> 33:32.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: But that's...
[33:32.170 --> 33:33.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can only make one distance call.
[33:33.570 --> 33:34.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wait a minute.
[33:34.450 --> 33:37.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, first of all, I thought the number was 09591230.
[33:38.330 --> 33:41.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: Believe it or not, it only works on a digital switch.
[33:41.470 --> 33:41.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[33:41.830 --> 33:47.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: For trunks, we have a trunk that's on an electronic switch and a trunk that's on a digital switch.
[33:48.070 --> 33:51.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it only works on that trunk with a digital switch.
[33:51.230 --> 33:56.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you try it with the electronic switch, it'll give you a recording, an outside recording.
[33:56.890 --> 33:57.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[33:57.650 --> 33:59.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: So you just dial the 959...
[33:59.610 --> 34:09.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: You see, on a payphone, believe it or not, this is weird, because on an electronic switching, a payphone that's electronic switching, you just dial 9591230.
[34:09.690 --> 34:09.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[34:09.910 --> 34:17.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: On a payphone that's digital switching, you dial O, a long-distance area code, plus 9591230.
[34:19.570 --> 34:21.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: But here, it's sort of weird.
[34:21.390 --> 34:21.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: It works backwards.
[34:22.330 --> 34:24.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: You just dial 9591230.
[34:24.870 --> 34:26.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you can do this in your house, actually.
[34:27.030 --> 34:31.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: You just dial 9591230, and you get the long-distance operator, the AT&T operator.
[34:31.530 --> 34:38.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, now, the other thing was, when you dial 9591230, I was always in the impression that you got a computer that said, CoinTest, please insert a quarter.
[34:38.130 --> 34:38.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's on a payphone.
[34:38.930 --> 34:41.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Only from a payphone, so from a home phone, you get an operator.
[34:41.330 --> 34:41.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[34:43.090 --> 34:44.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's never happened to me.
[34:44.090 --> 34:46.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'll try it right now, in fact.
[34:46.430 --> 34:48.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not sure if we're digital or electronic or what here.
[34:49.030 --> 34:49.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you're electronic.
[34:50.190 --> 34:51.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you're saying it wouldn't work from here.
[34:52.050 --> 34:53.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: You could try it.
[34:53.130 --> 34:57.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: But did you know that the TAPS operators are getting new equipment that makes them directory assistance operators?
[34:58.290 --> 34:58.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Are they really?
[34:59.210 --> 35:00.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's what I heard from an operator.
[35:01.250 --> 35:02.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know when, but they say that.
[35:02.850 --> 35:06.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Operators are traditionally the last people to find out about these things, so I don't know for sure.
[35:06.650 --> 35:12.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: And also, if you dial star zero on some cold-cut phones, you get how much money is in the cold-cut phone.
[35:12.490 --> 35:12.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Really?
[35:12.890 --> 35:14.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: You dial star zero, and the voice will say.
[35:14.610 --> 35:22.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, now, you bring up a very interesting point, because at 2600, we're constantly striving to get information about these customer-owned coin-operated telephones.
[35:23.810 --> 35:27.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: And people have been sending us printouts of...
[35:27.190 --> 35:29.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: If they call up with a 300-baud modem, they call a payphone.
[35:30.010 --> 35:31.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: It spits out all this data.
[35:32.050 --> 35:36.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: And also, there's other phones that you call up, and you hear four tones, and it says thank you.
[35:36.230 --> 35:36.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[35:36.570 --> 35:36.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, no.
[35:36.910 --> 35:38.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: It says thank you, and then four tones.
[35:39.030 --> 35:39.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're right.
[35:39.490 --> 35:39.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[35:39.770 --> 35:40.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you, four tones.
[35:40.850 --> 35:44.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you, and then some Touch-Tones, which I don't know what means.
[35:44.150 --> 35:47.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Including a couple of silver box tones, which is the fourth column that...
[35:47.290 --> 35:47.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Touch-Tones?
[35:47.650 --> 35:47.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[35:48.170 --> 35:52.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, Touch-Tones and silver box tones, which is the A, B, C, D that's not on your phone.
[35:52.750 --> 35:55.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's to the right of the rightmost column.
[35:55.270 --> 35:55.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[35:56.130 --> 36:02.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, nobody has been able to figure that system out, and I'm surprised, because surely somebody out there must have one of these phones, and they know how it works.
[36:02.850 --> 36:05.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, definitely send in that information.
[36:06.010 --> 36:08.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not to rip off payphones.
[36:08.270 --> 36:11.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's to understand the technology, because some of them have monitoring devices.
[36:11.330 --> 36:12.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can listen to the payphone.
[36:12.710 --> 36:14.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can listen to the area around the payphone.
[36:15.270 --> 36:16.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think we need to know how it works.
[36:16.870 --> 36:18.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, what do you do to override restrictions?
[36:18.970 --> 36:20.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: Like you said, you know how to do that.
[36:20.350 --> 36:24.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it's different for every system, but there's usually something someplace.
[36:24.970 --> 36:27.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: Just like I found this 9591230 way.
[36:27.530 --> 36:29.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, well, that's pretty ingenious.
[36:30.030 --> 36:43.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's other things you can do, and, you know, with 800 numbers and call forwarding and diverters and things like that, there's really... there's never a complete lockout, unless you're confined to only on-site calls, and on-site is completely secure.
[36:44.010 --> 37:00.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: And did you know that a telephone company, a repairman, told me that if you got 450 in the 718212 area, I don't think it works anymore, because I tried it, you get the ACTS machine, meaning you'd not only do coin tests, but it did do, like, a current test,
[37:01.090 --> 37:02.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: how much current is going through.
[37:02.410 --> 37:10.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: 450 does a lot of weird things in a lot of places, and all I say is, if you're going to try that, be careful, because you don't know what you're going to expect.
[37:10.050 --> 37:13.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I can tell you, that has had some very, very unpredictable results.
[37:13.730 --> 37:17.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: But do you know how to get anything besides the coin test from that system?
[37:17.930 --> 37:19.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Are you trying to figure that out?
[37:19.070 --> 37:19.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, I have not.
[37:19.890 --> 37:20.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have not figured that out at all.
[37:21.410 --> 37:25.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I also have not figured out the 660 system of callbacks.
[37:25.030 --> 37:28.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Are you going to be able to dial 660 and get so many in the central office?
[37:29.590 --> 37:30.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sometimes, yeah.
[37:30.650 --> 37:31.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sometimes that does work.
[37:31.750 --> 37:35.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: But 660 works differently in various parts of New York and throughout.
[37:36.170 --> 37:39.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to try calling a couple of these things now, and we'll see what happens.
[37:39.210 --> 37:39.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks very much for calling.
[37:40.050 --> 37:40.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[37:40.570 --> 37:40.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[37:41.690 --> 37:43.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're going to try with...
[37:44.450 --> 37:44.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's see.
[37:44.990 --> 37:46.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: What shall we try first?
[37:46.670 --> 37:50.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's try the 959-1230 business.
[37:50.890 --> 37:51.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Got a dial tone there.
[37:55.470 --> 37:56.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: 959-1230.
[37:58.110 --> 37:59.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's see what we get.
[38:04.040 --> 38:06.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Your call cannot be completed if dialed.
[38:06.500 --> 38:08.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please check the number and dial again.
[38:08.720 --> 38:10.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: 2-1-2-8-P.
[38:11.820 --> 38:12.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[38:12.260 --> 38:13.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: Recording from New York.
[38:13.900 --> 38:17.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Don't know what AP stands for, but we can speculate.
[38:17.880 --> 38:18.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[38:18.620 --> 38:20.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: So that doesn't work from this particular switch.
[38:20.620 --> 38:25.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's not to say it wouldn't work from another phone number and cause all kinds of interesting...
[38:25.760 --> 38:28.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: 959, I do know, is blocked from many areas.
[38:28.460 --> 38:30.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I don't think we can call anything in that exchange.
[38:30.220 --> 38:33.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a telephone company operated exchange, as is 890.
[38:34.200 --> 38:36.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: However, that exchange is not blocked.
[38:38.360 --> 38:38.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[38:38.900 --> 38:42.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: Our number is 2-1-2-2-7-9-3-4-H-O.
[38:42.120 --> 38:45.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, we're also going to try 6-6-0 and see what that does from here.
[38:45.720 --> 38:46.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's give that a try.
[38:47.500 --> 38:48.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: 6-6-0.
[38:51.310 --> 38:54.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, this one is waiting for more digits, I believe.
[38:54.970 --> 38:55.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: So let's add some more digits.
[39:01.460 --> 39:03.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, it seems to be waiting for even more digits.
[39:03.400 --> 39:04.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: So let's add three more.
[39:07.400 --> 39:07.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[39:09.120 --> 39:09.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: Good afternoon.
[39:10.600 --> 39:15.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: The Handy and Harmon precious metal prices for Wednesday, August 12th are...
[39:15.040 --> 39:15.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: Now, wait a minute.
[39:15.900 --> 39:18.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: Gold, 346.80.
[39:18.040 --> 39:19.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wait just one minute here.
[39:19.380 --> 39:21.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: Silver, 3.875.
[39:21.220 --> 39:22.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: I wasn't expecting this.
[39:22.980 --> 39:25.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: Sterling, 3.60...
[39:25.500 --> 39:26.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, okay, okay.
[39:26.440 --> 39:32.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know exactly what's going on here, but I dialed 6-6-0 and then I dialed 10 more digits.
[39:33.280 --> 39:35.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't even remember what those 10 digits were.
[39:35.240 --> 39:41.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: They were pretty much at random, so I'm going to try this again with 10 completely different digits and see what happens this time.
[39:42.180 --> 39:42.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[39:43.660 --> 39:44.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: 6-6...
[39:44.460 --> 39:45.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, wait a minute.
[39:46.040 --> 39:47.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: That time it hung up immediately.
[39:48.340 --> 39:50.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wow, this is really strange, don't you think?
[39:50.360 --> 39:51.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's try it one more time.
[39:55.360 --> 39:57.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, I think I have a secondary dial tone there.
[39:58.320 --> 40:00.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't think that's the same dial tone, so I'm going to dial some numbers.
[40:04.550 --> 40:06.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, it hung up immediately when I did that.
[40:06.290 --> 40:09.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to try this one more time and try to keep it from hanging up.
[40:09.990 --> 40:10.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's very quick.
[40:14.260 --> 40:14.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Very quick.
[40:15.140 --> 40:16.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, I got the second dial tone.
[40:16.420 --> 40:17.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now I'm going to dial four more digits.
[40:20.930 --> 40:22.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, you got to move fast.
[40:32.520 --> 40:34.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Your call cannot be completed as dialed.
[40:34.780 --> 40:36.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Check the number and dial again.
[40:37.600 --> 40:39.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212 area, dial again.
[40:41.720 --> 40:43.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's a fading tape there.
[40:45.220 --> 40:47.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Your call cannot be completed as dialed.
[40:47.500 --> 40:48.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Check the number and dial again.
[40:50.380 --> 40:51.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212 area, dial again.
[40:54.380 --> 40:54.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wow.
[40:55.200 --> 41:01.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that just goes to show that there's virtually an unlimited number of possibilities that you can get if you dial these numbers.
[41:01.640 --> 41:06.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't quite know what happened there, but 660 has a world of adventure waiting there.
[41:07.360 --> 41:08.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[41:08.720 --> 41:09.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: Hello.
[41:09.500 --> 41:09.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: How you doing?
[41:10.220 --> 41:10.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yes.
[41:11.400 --> 41:12.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, go ahead.
[41:12.440 --> 41:13.420]  [SPEAKER_19]: All right, here's the thing.
[41:13.780 --> 41:16.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, hackers have been getting a bad name.
[41:16.220 --> 41:31.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: And I firmly believe that there should be a conference of the WBAI people and outside people from the listenership to discuss creative things that can be done to help the station, you know, raise revenue and reach a wider public.
[41:31.960 --> 41:33.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: And radio highlights is one way.
[41:33.920 --> 41:35.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: Now, here's a creative thing.
[41:42.480 --> 41:42.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: Emmanuel.
[41:43.240 --> 41:43.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sorry about that.
[41:43.680 --> 41:45.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know what happened there.
[41:45.300 --> 41:51.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: In the radio highlights in the New York magazine, they list four stations, not WBAI.
[41:52.060 --> 41:55.920]  [SPEAKER_19]: Now, WBAI is worthy of being included in radio highlights.
[41:56.140 --> 42:06.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yet in the television highlights, they list all the regular channels and every other one, ESPN, TEC, TLC, Life.
[42:07.200 --> 42:08.680]  [SPEAKER_19]: I mean, every...
[42:15.710 --> 42:21.910]  [SPEAKER_19]: WBAI in the folio should have an article, which I'm going to frame up one, and it's like, put this forth to...
[42:21.910 --> 42:25.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: And then it could be Xerox from the folio by the listeners.
[42:25.730 --> 42:29.970]  [SPEAKER_19]: Then the listeners could start distributing and the station could put them forth.
[42:30.190 --> 42:39.610]  [SPEAKER_19]: The point being that we should get into the New York Times that this little radio station is fighting against injustice in the world of radio and television and all that.
[42:39.790 --> 42:45.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you know, it's interesting the way it all works because what happens with radio listings...
[42:45.450 --> 42:47.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Radio listings do not show up in any newspaper.
[42:47.970 --> 42:48.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've noticed that.
[42:49.030 --> 42:54.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're very limited in scope and New York Times is certainly no exception to that.
[42:55.910 --> 42:57.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's something that doesn't just affect WBAI.
[42:58.070 --> 43:02.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: It affects all radio stations, but it affects us actually more because we're one of the few radio stations that has programs.
[43:02.930 --> 43:07.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: We don't just play, you know, classic rock all day long or classical music all day long.
[43:07.330 --> 43:09.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have different programs that change from hour to hour.
[43:10.810 --> 43:17.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: And in many ways, we're like a television station because we have so many different programs, but we're certainly not listed as such.
[43:17.550 --> 43:21.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I wish, maybe somebody out there, some entrepreneur or something can do this.
[43:21.790 --> 43:32.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's one of my pet projects I never had a chance to actually do, but somebody should come out with a radio magazine that encompasses all of the radio stations that actually have programs and list them.
[43:33.050 --> 43:40.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Of course, it would require some, you know, coordination of these radio stations, they'd have to get program listings in on time, but I think that could be done.
[43:40.850 --> 43:44.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: And maybe it would get people to listen to radio again and actually know what they're listening to.
[43:45.330 --> 43:50.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: But for now, the best thing you can do is get the WBAI Folio so you know it's on this radio station.
[43:51.450 --> 43:52.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[43:53.170 --> 43:53.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anybody there?
[43:54.070 --> 43:54.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Please.
[43:54.590 --> 43:54.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, go ahead.
[43:56.250 --> 43:58.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm interested in setting up an Internet node.
[43:58.990 --> 43:59.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: You are?
[43:59.870 --> 44:00.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[44:00.410 --> 44:01.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: How do I go about doing that?
[44:01.570 --> 44:02.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: What do I call?
[44:02.470 --> 44:03.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Ooh, that's a good question.
[44:04.910 --> 44:14.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, there's an Internet committee and I don't have any of their access, any ways of getting access to them, unfortunately.
[44:15.430 --> 44:23.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, probably your best bet is to call up somebody that's on the Internet, a system that's on the Internet, like, do you have Internet access now?
[44:23.670 --> 44:24.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can you get onto the Internet?
[44:24.810 --> 44:25.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: No.
[44:25.470 --> 44:26.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can't get on at all?
[44:26.390 --> 44:27.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have a modem.
[44:27.550 --> 44:27.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[44:28.030 --> 44:29.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, have you played with the Internet?
[44:30.470 --> 44:31.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: At school, I had an account.
[44:32.290 --> 44:32.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[44:33.770 --> 44:40.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you probably have to get on as a company of sorts, you know, not an educational institution.
[44:40.730 --> 44:44.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have a .com suffix to your address.
[44:44.890 --> 44:49.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: And what I suggest is you contact somebody that's already done that.
[44:50.050 --> 44:56.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: And something like panics.com or the well in California.
[44:57.530 --> 44:59.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, there's ways of doing this.
[44:59.250 --> 45:00.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just, I don't have it in front of me.
[45:00.670 --> 45:03.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: What I can do is I can find out and talk about it over the air.
[45:04.410 --> 45:04.630]  All right.
[45:04.690 --> 45:05.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: That'd be great.
[45:05.350 --> 45:06.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: I listen every week.
[45:06.490 --> 45:06.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[45:07.030 --> 45:10.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'll try and get numbers and I'll talk about that next week.
[45:10.330 --> 45:11.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: But that is a very good point.
[45:12.450 --> 45:14.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I'm not sure exactly what it encompasses.
[45:14.470 --> 45:16.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: There is a bit of expense involved.
[45:16.390 --> 45:17.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm just not sure what it is.
[45:17.570 --> 45:19.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: From what I understand, it's something like $200.
[45:20.370 --> 45:21.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not sure about that.
[45:21.650 --> 45:22.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: You think it's more?
[45:22.770 --> 45:23.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not sure.
[45:23.570 --> 45:27.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't want to say it is or isn't, but it's not the easiest thing in the world to do.
[45:28.070 --> 45:28.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: That much I do know.
[45:28.950 --> 45:29.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[45:29.310 --> 45:30.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've got a second quick question.
[45:30.610 --> 45:30.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[45:31.930 --> 45:34.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going abroad, but I'd like to keep in touch with my family.
[45:34.950 --> 45:37.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's why I wanted to set up this Internet node.
[45:38.030 --> 45:40.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have an Internet account abroad.
[45:40.450 --> 45:40.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[45:42.010 --> 45:45.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you know of any other way I could possibly do this?
[45:46.650 --> 45:47.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Send data messages?
[45:49.230 --> 45:49.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Essentially free.
[45:50.530 --> 45:50.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[45:52.030 --> 45:53.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, the Internet is...
[45:53.670 --> 45:55.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, there are things that link to the Internet.
[45:56.050 --> 46:01.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, like CompuServe, for instance, you can get things out to the Internet without actually being on it yourself.
[46:02.250 --> 46:07.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's other things that forward to the Internet, but in my opinion, there's no real substitute for the real thing.
[46:07.990 --> 46:08.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[46:09.130 --> 46:13.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, I don't think you have to get your own node, but, you know, if you...
[46:13.750 --> 46:15.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's say, what country are you going to?
[46:15.410 --> 46:15.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Israel.
[46:15.930 --> 46:16.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Israel.
[46:16.830 --> 46:22.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's plenty of universities there that have Internet accounts.
[46:22.770 --> 46:23.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: I know, I've seen some of them.
[46:24.270 --> 46:25.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: That have Internet accounts.
[46:25.730 --> 46:27.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to be in Israel.
[46:27.270 --> 46:28.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have an account in Israel.
[46:28.530 --> 46:29.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, great.
[46:29.370 --> 46:29.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, then...
[46:30.290 --> 46:31.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: My wife will be here in the States.
[46:31.750 --> 46:32.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'd like to be able to communicate.
[46:32.950 --> 46:33.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you know what?
[46:33.830 --> 46:34.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: You don't even...
[46:34.730 --> 46:39.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: All your wife has to do is call into something that allows Internet access.
[46:39.770 --> 46:43.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: And there's plenty of public access boards around.
[46:44.890 --> 46:52.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Things like The Well, things like boards called The World and Netcom and various other entities like that.
[46:53.030 --> 47:00.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't have their numbers right here either, but all you need to do is contact one of those and then you have a mailbox on the system.
[47:01.110 --> 47:08.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: From that system, your wife can both send messages back and forth or she can even log in to your system from there and vice versa.
[47:08.770 --> 47:12.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can log in to a system in the United States from Israel.
[47:12.350 --> 47:15.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is there a local BBS where I can get this information?
[47:15.910 --> 47:16.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[47:17.090 --> 47:19.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: I still have the number off the top of my head.
[47:19.730 --> 47:20.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: What's the name?
[47:21.350 --> 47:21.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's see.
[47:21.930 --> 47:23.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: You might try panics.com.
[47:24.050 --> 47:29.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: I believe they have P-A-N-I-X but that's the Internet address.
[47:29.990 --> 47:33.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: And what you might want to do is tell that over to them and get information that way.
[47:34.150 --> 47:36.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sure they have a local dial-up someplace in New York.
[47:36.990 --> 47:38.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: And there's others too.
[47:38.610 --> 47:40.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's a growing business.
[47:41.950 --> 47:42.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[47:42.690 --> 47:44.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have a Darwin BBS list.
[47:44.890 --> 47:45.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[47:45.250 --> 47:47.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you think there might be anything on that locally?
[47:47.890 --> 47:52.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you ask around on any BBS, you're saying to get information on the Internet.
[47:53.210 --> 47:53.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[47:53.570 --> 47:56.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, if you ask around on any BBS, somebody will get you that information.
[47:56.390 --> 47:57.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's probably the quickest way to do it.
[47:57.790 --> 47:58.050]  Okay.
[47:58.510 --> 47:58.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[47:58.910 --> 48:00.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: You might also want to ask the folks on the show after this one.
[48:01.090 --> 48:02.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: They might have more specific information.
[48:02.990 --> 48:03.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[48:03.470 --> 48:03.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[48:03.830 --> 48:04.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks very much.
[48:04.430 --> 48:04.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good luck.
[48:04.810 --> 48:04.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bye-bye.
[48:05.770 --> 48:07.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's really one of the best ways to communicate.
[48:07.770 --> 48:13.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: And living proof of how communications does not have to be so expensive that it's impossible.
[48:14.050 --> 48:17.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: On the Internet, it's possible to talk to people all over the world.
[48:17.190 --> 48:25.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Of course, you can't see their faces or hear their voices, but you can send messages back and forth within seconds all over the globe.
[48:25.690 --> 48:27.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the most amazing thing.
[48:28.310 --> 48:31.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's what the future can be if we make it that way.
[48:31.530 --> 48:32.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[48:32.710 --> 48:33.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hi.
[48:33.390 --> 48:33.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: How are you doing?
[48:34.310 --> 48:35.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm trying to get on the air.
[48:35.630 --> 48:36.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you succeeded.
[48:37.030 --> 48:37.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is there anything else?
[48:39.690 --> 48:40.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh.
[48:40.370 --> 48:40.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh.
[48:41.290 --> 48:41.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[48:42.570 --> 48:43.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: I got a question.
[48:44.490 --> 48:44.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[48:45.710 --> 48:47.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we're going to have to move faster than this stuff.
[48:48.570 --> 48:49.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: A friend...
[48:49.390 --> 48:56.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Someone I know gave me a phone number last week that he claimed was a credit card number.
[48:56.690 --> 48:57.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a one-zero number.
[48:58.670 --> 49:02.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: Which, you know, at the beginning of the number, one-zeroed and three more digits and then the digit one.
[49:04.190 --> 49:05.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, I'll tell you right off.
[49:05.770 --> 49:11.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: I suspect this guy to be an agent or a cop or something who'd like to know what my phone conversations are about.
[49:12.130 --> 49:15.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do credit card numbers come that way at all or is this something else?
[49:15.370 --> 49:15.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: No.
[49:16.670 --> 49:19.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can you describe this person just a little bit more?
[49:19.270 --> 49:20.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is he a friend of yours?
[49:21.290 --> 49:29.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, he's a business associate who I met through a friend and he called himself doing me a favor.
[49:29.930 --> 49:30.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[49:30.270 --> 49:31.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Giving me this six-digit number.
[49:32.190 --> 49:32.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[49:32.430 --> 49:33.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: What he's doing is...
[49:33.950 --> 49:35.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: and it's not necessarily a bad thing.
[49:35.390 --> 49:38.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: He is telling you how to route your phone calls through another phone company.
[49:38.850 --> 49:39.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not a credit card number.
[49:39.910 --> 49:47.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: What he gave you is a publicly accessible number and you might as well tell me what the three digits after the one zero were anyway because they're not they're not a secret.
[49:47.770 --> 49:50.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you tell me what those are I can probably tell you what company it is right away.
[49:51.370 --> 49:51.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um...
[49:52.410 --> 49:53.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let me see...
[49:56.030 --> 49:56.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: 104881, I think.
[49:57.150 --> 49:57.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[49:57.510 --> 49:58.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's Metromedia long distance.
[49:59.390 --> 49:59.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[49:59.870 --> 50:03.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: What he's doing is he's telling you to route your phone calls through Metromedia.
[50:04.110 --> 50:07.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: You dial 10488 then one plus the number you're calling.
[50:07.950 --> 50:13.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you wanted to route it through ATT& for instance you would dial 10288 108T one plus the number.
[50:14.590 --> 50:22.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: By doing you a favor he may be getting you lower long distance costs but there's no way he can listen in because of those numbers he gave you.
[50:23.030 --> 50:25.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: But those calls will be paid for.
[50:25.450 --> 50:26.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're not going to be free calls.
[50:26.990 --> 50:27.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: No.
[50:27.630 --> 50:28.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're going to get billed for those calls.
[50:29.370 --> 50:39.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're going to get a page on your phone bill from Metromedia just like you get a page from AT&T or MCI or whatever long distance company you use now and they'll charge you for those calls.
[50:39.590 --> 50:39.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[50:40.170 --> 50:41.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: It goes directly to your phone number.
[50:41.770 --> 50:42.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: Alrighty.
[50:42.410 --> 50:42.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Alright.
[50:42.810 --> 50:43.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you so much.
[50:43.650 --> 50:43.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[50:44.650 --> 50:52.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hope that answers that question but you can see how people can get very bewildered very quickly by the new rules as far as making phone calls.
[50:52.710 --> 50:57.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's really quite simple and the best way to learn is to play around with it and ask a lot of questions.
[50:58.350 --> 50:58.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[50:59.770 --> 51:00.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello.
[51:00.430 --> 51:00.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: How you doing?
[51:01.430 --> 51:01.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[51:01.710 --> 51:01.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi.
[51:02.470 --> 51:06.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: You were talking before about a radio guide that you were interested in?
[51:06.290 --> 51:06.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[51:08.430 --> 51:08.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[51:09.050 --> 51:09.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Alright.
[51:09.490 --> 51:12.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, there is somebody working on it namely me.
[51:12.130 --> 51:12.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that was fast.
[51:13.070 --> 51:13.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[51:13.550 --> 51:13.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[51:13.850 --> 51:16.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Only two calls later and someone's already on work.
[51:16.270 --> 51:17.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: I work at this project.
[51:17.390 --> 51:17.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's great.
[51:17.650 --> 51:21.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, the problem is it costs a lot of money to print a magazine.
[51:21.110 --> 51:22.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's one of the reasons I didn't get involved.
[51:23.330 --> 51:23.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[51:24.990 --> 51:32.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, it's a question of whether there'll be a guide coming out unless there's a lot of money raised.
[51:32.210 --> 51:43.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, see, you know, my idea would be to start fairly small like perhaps just in Manhattan because in Manhattan alone you have so many interesting radio stations that, you know, cross over into the area with different programming.
[51:43.390 --> 51:46.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: It'd be nice to have a comprehensive guide that tells you what's on.
[51:46.930 --> 51:47.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[51:47.290 --> 51:51.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Of course, I think WBAI would probably have the most interesting programs, but then again, maybe there's something we don't know about.
[51:52.130 --> 51:52.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's true.
[51:52.830 --> 51:53.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
[51:53.290 --> 51:55.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: And have a special section on pirate radio too.
[51:55.550 --> 51:55.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yep, yep.
[51:56.010 --> 51:56.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a part of it.
[51:56.490 --> 51:59.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'm working on it, but we'll have to see if I can raise the money.
[51:59.670 --> 52:00.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, well, keep us updated.
[52:00.850 --> 52:01.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[52:01.270 --> 52:02.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, thanks for calling.
[52:02.270 --> 52:02.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, thanks.
[52:04.190 --> 52:09.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Most interesting is virtually anything can be done if you set your mind to it.
[52:09.250 --> 52:09.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[52:09.990 --> 52:10.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[52:10.610 --> 52:10.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: How are you doing?
[52:11.710 --> 52:12.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Am I on?
[52:12.870 --> 52:13.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, yes, you are.
[52:13.870 --> 52:18.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, several weeks ago, I'd say about a month ago, I happened to tune in late.
[52:18.970 --> 52:19.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[52:19.310 --> 52:40.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: I heard you say something about pressing the star and six, nine, and the reason I'm cooling is because I've been having a problem with somebody who cools at all hours and then hangs up when I pick up, and I wondered if that star six, nine is any kind of solution for me to find out.
[52:40.230 --> 52:41.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think I know who it is.
[52:41.510 --> 52:42.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, what's your area code?
[52:43.090 --> 52:43.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: 212.
[52:43.890 --> 52:48.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, it does not work yet in 212, so at least not at last report.
[52:48.910 --> 52:49.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: It might start any day.
[52:50.830 --> 52:56.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Star six, nine will return the last phone call that came into your particular phone.
[52:56.310 --> 53:02.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: If it can be done, a lot of phone calls come from out of the area and sometimes even out of the immediate area won't be able to do.
[53:02.530 --> 53:06.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's also, if it's a person I think, it's also 212.
[53:07.210 --> 53:07.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[53:09.970 --> 53:12.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: If they're harassing nature, are they harassing phone calls?
[53:13.010 --> 53:17.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Nothing is said, but they come during the night, in the morning.
[53:17.870 --> 53:22.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, if you, you know, the phone company does have to do something about it if you complain.
[53:23.390 --> 53:26.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, the thing is they're very reluctant to do it a lot of times.
[53:26.730 --> 53:28.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: You might have to complain a few times.
[53:28.830 --> 53:36.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know, I did check with them and it, uh, they weren't, uh, they didn't seem too eager and I just thought that you would be the one who could really give me the answer.
[53:36.910 --> 53:45.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, as far as, as far as the present state of affairs, they're the only ones that can, you know, see for sure who is making the phone call, especially if you tell them that you suspect somebody of doing it.
[53:45.950 --> 53:46.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[53:46.270 --> 53:54.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, they, there's nothing really in it for them, so they're not really going to, uh, go crazy to, to help you out unless you, you insist, and if they don't help you, go to the police.
[53:54.530 --> 53:55.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's what they're there for as well.
[53:56.010 --> 54:01.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: And tell them that somebody is, is harassing you, and just calling up and not saying anything, that's a form of harassment too.
[54:01.390 --> 54:01.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[54:02.170 --> 54:09.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, but keep in mind that Star 6ix9, uh, well, is helpful in some ways, but it's also a, a, a big hindrance in other ways.
[54:09.930 --> 54:25.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, and I, I learned this the hard way myself because I had somebody that, uh, I suspected, but I, I didn't know who it was, um, but I suspected this number was harassing another phone number, and so I called to see if it was busy at the same time that the person was being harassed.
[54:25.170 --> 54:25.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[54:25.590 --> 54:30.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: And instead of me finding out who that person was, that person was able to call me back by using Star 6ix9.
[54:30.910 --> 54:31.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[54:31.010 --> 54:43.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: So then he was able to get my other phone number, or the other phone number I was using at that point, and, uh, fortunately, you know, disaster was headed off, but, uh, it can be used against you as well as for you, so, uh, you got to be careful of that.
[54:45.150 --> 54:47.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: What is going to be operative in Manhattan?
[54:47.470 --> 54:48.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: What exactly would I do?
[54:49.270 --> 55:02.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, okay, if somebody were to call you, and either you picked up the phone or you didn't pick up the phone, as long as the phone rings, uh, you simply dial Star 6ix9, and then it will call back the last person that called you, assuming that they called you direct,
[55:03.070 --> 55:14.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: that they didn't, uh, you know, call you through an operator, didn't call you from a payphone or whatever, uh, it'll supposedly call them back, but then again, you know, they could put call forwarding on their line and trick you and make it seem like somebody else called you.
[55:14.630 --> 55:18.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't have any equipment other than a portable phone and a, and a rotary phone.
[55:18.950 --> 55:19.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[55:19.370 --> 55:24.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, uh, I would dial Star 6ix9 immediately after they hang up.
[55:24.770 --> 55:29.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, just before, before another call comes in, because it always calls back the last call to come in.
[55:29.330 --> 55:32.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then, in other words, I would reach, reach that person.
[55:32.730 --> 55:33.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Their phone would ring.
[55:33.790 --> 55:35.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: If everything works out, yes.
[55:35.970 --> 55:36.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[55:36.350 --> 55:39.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, uh, again, you'd have to have a local itemization to find out what their phone number was.
[55:39.770 --> 55:42.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't think they're going to tell you anything that's up to them.
[55:42.210 --> 55:44.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know, I think I know who's doing it.
[55:44.630 --> 55:44.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[55:45.110 --> 55:46.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: I can't accuse them.
[55:46.670 --> 55:50.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, there's another kind of less technical way to do it.
[55:50.270 --> 55:51.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do you know if this person has call waiting?
[55:51.950 --> 55:52.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't.
[55:52.750 --> 55:53.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: They don't.
[55:53.110 --> 55:53.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good.
[55:53.350 --> 55:53.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[55:54.170 --> 55:55.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, do you have access to a second line?
[55:57.130 --> 55:57.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: No.
[55:57.810 --> 56:05.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, if you can somehow get access to a second line, if you simply call that number at the very moment that you're getting a call and see if it's busy, there's your evidence right there.
[56:07.330 --> 56:10.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, at two or three in the morning, that would be an indication.
[56:10.650 --> 56:10.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[56:11.210 --> 56:11.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[56:12.010 --> 56:14.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, uh, that's, that's about the best you can do right now.
[56:14.750 --> 56:16.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: If it's really bothering you, though, go to the phone company.
[56:16.930 --> 56:17.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's what they're there for.
[56:18.210 --> 56:19.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you very much.
[56:19.230 --> 56:19.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, good luck.
[56:20.030 --> 56:20.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[56:21.410 --> 56:23.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, a lot of people get harassing phone calls.
[56:23.270 --> 56:25.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know if it's, uh, if it's going up.
[56:25.990 --> 56:29.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you look at those New Jersey Bell ads, you'd think that everybody was getting harassed and threatened.
[56:29.810 --> 56:44.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, uh, you know, I think when you, when you realize that they're selling a product and that the phone company makes 75 cents every time you dial star six nine on top of the cost of the call, you have to realize that, uh, they're not in it for, uh, for goodwill.
[56:44.310 --> 56:47.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're in it for profit and you have to judge it based on that.
[56:47.790 --> 56:59.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, if star six nine is such a valuable service, why they charge 75 cents each time you use it when you're not doing anything really special, you're simply making use of an existing network and calling a number that you're paying for anyway.
[57:00.390 --> 57:04.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, it's, uh, it also changes completely the way we, uh, we deal with telephones.
[57:05.030 --> 57:19.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know how many people saw Saturday Night Live a few weeks ago, actually a few months ago, uh, where they were doing a takeoff on the New Jersey Bell commercial where this guy is, uh, is calling somebody and harassing them, trying to get them to,
[57:19.550 --> 57:21.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: uh, uh, to spend money on something.
[57:21.450 --> 57:30.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's obviously on one of these boiler room swindle jobs and the person calls him back and says, or, or the person knows his phone number.
[57:30.430 --> 57:42.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not sure if it was star six nine or caller ID, but in any event, she communicated to him that she knew who he was or knew his phone number and he hangs up the phone and he says, she knows who I am.
[57:42.910 --> 57:44.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now I'm going to have to kill her.
[57:44.950 --> 57:45.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[57:46.350 --> 57:52.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, um, do you know if there's any relationship between MCI and Telecom USA?
[57:54.150 --> 57:55.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, Telecom USA.
[57:55.770 --> 57:56.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is there a relationship?
[57:56.710 --> 57:58.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I'm told there is a relationship between them.
[57:58.490 --> 58:00.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know what kind of relationship it is.
[58:00.550 --> 58:04.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: I assume it's just friends or something like that, but, uh, what, they merged recently?
[58:04.750 --> 58:09.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, because, um, uh, you know what's the number one, 700-555-4141, right?
[58:09.410 --> 58:10.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that tells you what your long-distance company is.
[58:10.930 --> 58:19.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, and, uh, my long-term carrier is MCI, and what happened when I called up, um, it tells me, um, uh, thank you for using MCI.
[58:20.370 --> 58:26.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: He says it twice, and then after that, he says, thank you for choosing, um, Telecom USA.
[58:26.530 --> 58:27.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I'm like...
[58:27.290 --> 58:28.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it sounds...
[58:28.130 --> 58:34.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: I haven't been following this one because it happens so frequently, but that sounds like the two have merged, and that they are now one.
[58:35.570 --> 58:35.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh.
[58:35.730 --> 58:39.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: So don't, don't be, uh, you know, um, um, concerned with that.
[58:39.950 --> 58:40.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Mm-hmm.
[58:40.250 --> 58:44.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: As long as, as long as you hear your company in there somewhere, that means, uh, you've got the right one.
[58:44.190 --> 58:46.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it happened with, uh, MCI and SBS.
[58:47.150 --> 58:49.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's happened with, uh, ITT and Metro Media.
[58:50.630 --> 58:53.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, companies are always merging, and it's going to happen in the future as well.
[58:54.190 --> 58:54.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, sure.
[58:54.990 --> 58:55.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you for that.
[58:55.470 --> 58:55.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[58:56.070 --> 58:57.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's nice when they tell you about it, though.
[58:57.710 --> 59:01.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: They should let you know that, uh, your company has, uh, U.S.
[59:01.310 --> 59:02.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Tel and Sprint, too.
[59:02.430 --> 59:03.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: They, they merged as well.
[59:04.110 --> 59:04.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's incredible.
[59:05.110 --> 59:05.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[59:06.630 --> 59:07.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hello?
[59:07.530 --> 59:08.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, go ahead.
[59:08.470 --> 59:08.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hi.
[59:09.030 --> 59:10.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hi, um, good evening.
[59:10.790 --> 59:27.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'd like to ask you a question, um, about these companies that, like, Feaks, that, um, buy Time Wholesale from AT&T and Sprint and then build customers at a very discounted level because, you know, I'm getting offers, you know, to go out into the market and sell these products,
[59:28.410 --> 59:30.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: you know, to businesses, and I want to know what you think about that.
[59:31.370 --> 59:34.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: And also, repeat the 700 number that you talked about just now.
[59:34.410 --> 59:38.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, the 700 number, it's, uh, 1-700-555-4141.
[59:38.710 --> 59:41.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, that will tell you what your long-distance company is.
[59:41.910 --> 59:48.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, and of course you can, you can preface that with the carrier access code, and it'll give you a greeting for another company, even though it's not your long-distance company.
[59:49.590 --> 59:59.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, now, as far as, uh, buying wholesale from, uh, from AT&T and, and any other companies, uh, keep in mind that the phone call is only one part of it.
[59:59.670 --> 01:00:02.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Service is the other part of, uh, of choosing a company.
[01:00:03.290 --> 01:00:06.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you have to ask yourself, well, does this company provide service?
[01:00:06.430 --> 01:00:08.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do they provide, you know, immediate credit?
[01:00:08.330 --> 01:00:09.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is there operator service available?
[01:00:10.270 --> 01:00:11.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, things like that.
[01:00:11.150 --> 01:00:19.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, leasing the lines is one thing, but is it really worth the sacrifice if you don't get any service, or if you get, uh, bills that you really can't contest?
[01:00:20.010 --> 01:00:25.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I've had all kinds of horror stories with other companies that may be cheaper, but, uh, it's impossible to talk to them.
[01:00:25.670 --> 01:00:32.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, well, you know, um, I'm being, you know, a proposition to go out to the market and sell Feeks' billing services.
[01:00:33.010 --> 01:00:33.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[01:00:33.350 --> 01:00:51.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, um, from what I was told, um, Feeks, you know, is, is using the, uh, existing AT&T and Sprint networks, and all they're doing is, like, uh, asking the company to join their co-op, you know, and then they can enjoy, uh, you know, the savings that maybe a Hertz or DuPont,
[01:00:51.750 --> 01:00:52.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: you know, could enjoy.
[01:00:53.150 --> 01:00:55.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, now, what kind of commitment are they asking for?
[01:00:55.810 --> 01:00:56.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Just nothing.
[01:00:56.830 --> 01:01:09.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, you know, uh, the client who gets on with Feeks, you know, they have a 90-day, you know, guarantee, and if they don't like it after 90 days, they can, they'll be paid to, they'll pay the customer to switch back to their old billing system.
[01:01:09.570 --> 01:01:09.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well...
[01:01:09.830 --> 01:01:13.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, when you're on Feeks, uh, you don't have to change any network.
[01:01:13.330 --> 01:01:15.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, if you're an AT&T customer or Sprint, fine.
[01:01:16.030 --> 01:01:21.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: All you're doing is, uh, you're getting a new bill for your long distance from this other company called Feeks.
[01:01:21.370 --> 01:01:21.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[01:01:21.850 --> 01:01:22.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I just want to...
[01:01:22.750 --> 01:01:29.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you might want to check with AT&T to see if they have any, uh, strong words to say about this, you know, just, just to get their, their side of it.
[01:01:29.810 --> 01:01:33.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, um, read the fine print, see if there's anything that could go wrong.
[01:01:33.450 --> 01:01:36.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if, if you think it's okay, give it a try, and then get back to us and let us know what happened.
[01:01:37.170 --> 01:01:42.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, um, you know, you gotta, you just gotta, I'm not saying, to view this negatively, I'm just saying exercise caution.
[01:01:42.350 --> 01:01:43.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, I just want...
[01:01:43.210 --> 01:01:43.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: At the buyer beware.
[01:01:43.910 --> 01:01:47.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: Did you have any experience with Feeks or these, this selling concept?
[01:01:48.270 --> 01:01:49.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, I've, I've, I've never gotten involved with that.
[01:01:50.110 --> 01:01:53.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've heard about it, but I've never, I've never taken the time to get involved with it.
[01:01:54.090 --> 01:01:55.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: It could very well pay off.
[01:01:56.190 --> 01:02:01.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, but, uh, I imagine you have to have, you have to have a minimum of some sort of usage for it to pay?
[01:02:01.790 --> 01:02:14.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, no, not really, because Feeks' selling point is that they're six-second billers, so that, um, you know, they'll save you, you know, um, money, like 12%, you know, compared to AT&T ProWatts.
[01:02:14.390 --> 01:02:14.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[01:02:14.750 --> 01:02:18.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: The fact that they're six-second billers, and then, plus they're...
[01:02:18.070 --> 01:02:27.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you see, six-second billers are, are, are good for some things, and, I mean, it's good if you make a call for, for a minute and six seconds, but if you make a call for a minute and 40 seconds, somehow the savings start going away.
[01:02:27.770 --> 01:02:32.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm afraid we're out of time, but, uh, keep us informed on that, and let us know what, uh, what, what you come up with.
[01:02:32.930 --> 01:02:34.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're always interested in, uh, in things like that.
[01:02:40.850 --> 01:02:43.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's going to just about do it for us here tonight on Off the Hook.
[01:02:43.950 --> 01:02:45.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[01:02:45.210 --> 01:02:53.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks very much for your calls, and, uh, if you want to write to us, our address is Off the Hook, care of WBAI, 505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
[01:02:54.210 --> 01:02:55.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Stay tuned for the personal computer show.
[01:02:55.950 --> 01:02:56.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good night.
[01:02:56.410 --> 01:02:57.350]  We have much worldly
[01:03:00.590 --> 01:03:02.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: bond, but the best is paid for us.
[01:03:03.630 --> 01:03:06.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: I hope that's understood, but let me know.
[01:03:26.790 --> 01:03:27.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yo baseo.
[01:03:28.190 --> 01:03:28.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: Ani ha shimnika.
[01:03:29.630 --> 01:03:30.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm Michael G.
[01:03:30.630 --> 01:03:33.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: Haskins, host of Half Past Three with Michael G.
[01:03:33.310 --> 01:03:39.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Late night, early morning radio coming your way alternating Tuesdays, 3.30 to 6 a.m.
[01:03:40.110 --> 01:03:52.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: The only program in the metropolitan area dedicated to late night workers, early morning risers, and people who are out where they've got no business being with someone they've got no business being with.
[01:03:52.770 --> 01:03:57.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good music, additional information, and you on the landline.
[01:03:58.050 --> 01:03:59.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: Whatever you do, whatever you Whatever you can do, I think I think I keep.