Off The Hook - 1992-09-30

[00:03.330 --> 00:05.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: Astrology, very humble beginnings.
[00:05.630 --> 00:19.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: However, I think most professional astronomers would think that there is a definite decoupling between events and the motion of planets, though, in fact, the President of the United States apparently believed in astrology for most of his presidency.
[00:19.470 --> 00:22.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, unfortunately, that's all we have time left in exploration.
[00:22.950 --> 00:32.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is Dr. Michio Kaku, Professor of Theoretical Physics here at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, advising you to tune in every Wednesday evening from 8 o'clock to 9 o'clock.
[00:32.810 --> 00:38.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: when we discuss the world of science, as well as issues concerning war, peace, and the environment.
[00:38.630 --> 00:46.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is Dr. Michio Kaku for Radio WBAI 99.5 FM, broadcasting from the Empire State Building.
[00:46.950 --> 00:47.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: Good evening.
[01:10.640 --> 01:12.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: We play fabulous rock and roll.
[01:12.950 --> 01:16.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Other stations are afraid might get their listeners to start free-thinking again.
[01:16.540 --> 01:16.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Woo-hoo!
[01:17.220 --> 01:23.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: That would be a real tune-out factor for those flaming media pigs like K-Rock and WNEW, where rock lives on respirators.
[01:23.460 --> 01:36.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: But on The Bernie Fleshkin Show, you'll meet the likes of show waitress Dixie Lily, Shantoose Finesse Tease, The Missing Link, Aerious Guy, and America's latent superhero, Captain Fabulous in his yellow ribbon cape.
[01:37.200 --> 01:40.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: And even celebrities like Elvis and Johnny Cash.
[01:40.260 --> 01:45.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: So tune into The Bernie Fleshkin Show on WBAI on the first Monday morning of every month at 9.30.
[01:45.900 --> 01:48.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a rock and roll comedy adventure you won't soon forget.
[01:48.940 --> 01:49.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just ask the FCC.
[01:50.340 --> 01:57.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's the first Monday morning of every month at 9.30 on free speech, listener-sponsored, Hey Buddy, Got a Dime Radio, WBAI.
[01:57.820 --> 01:58.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who loves you, sweetheart?
[01:59.120 --> 02:00.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ciao, muchachos!
[02:06.520 --> 02:12.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's celebrate the end of the membership drive and the beginning of fall together at the next WBAI Sunday Brunch.
[02:12.300 --> 02:22.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yet again, on October 4th, for just $12, you can dine and chat with some of New York's most interesting people, including Andrew Phillips, Anthony Sloan, Lauren Comiteau, and more.
[02:22.540 --> 02:23.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: And who more, you ask?
[02:24.100 --> 02:29.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you'll have to join us at Bernard's at 145 Avenue C at 11.30 a.m.
[02:29.600 --> 02:30.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: or 1 p.m.
[02:30.720 --> 02:34.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's Sunday, October 4th, for the WBAI Sunday Brunch.
[02:34.460 --> 02:39.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: For reservations, call Bernard's at 212-614-9395.
[02:40.180 --> 02:43.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's 212-614-9395.
[02:43.740 --> 02:47.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you on Sunday for the next WBAI Sunday Brunch.
[02:53.950 --> 02:57.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: And this is radio station WBAI in New York.
[02:57.950 --> 03:02.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: The time is 9.01, and that means we're one minute late for Off the Hook.
[03:08.930 --> 03:13.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[03:14.330 --> 03:18.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[03:19.550 --> 03:21.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: It couldn't get much worse,
[03:25.800 --> 03:27.140]  expect the worst.
[03:27.800 --> 03:29.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: I hope that's understood.
[03:29.640 --> 03:30.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: And a
[04:10.400 --> 04:13.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: good evening to one and all.
[04:13.740 --> 04:16.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is Off the Hook, and this is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[04:16.760 --> 04:18.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll be together for the next hour.
[04:18.880 --> 04:24.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: And tonight we'll be, among other things, taking listener phone calls for the first time in about two months, I think.
[04:24.520 --> 04:26.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's been quite some time, and I'm sorry about that.
[04:26.860 --> 04:30.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: But all kinds of interesting things have been going on.
[04:30.120 --> 04:34.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: We've had the marathon, we've had other pre-recorded programs.
[04:34.320 --> 04:41.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: But tonight we are here live and ready for questions, comments, observations, experiences, things like that.
[04:41.300 --> 04:44.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we've got some of our own here to share with you.
[04:44.980 --> 04:45.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: So stay tuned.
[04:45.980 --> 04:47.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: The number is 279-3400.
[04:48.580 --> 04:50.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's area code 212.
[04:59.840 --> 05:27.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, they tell me of a pie up in the sky Waiting for me when I die But between the day you're born and when you die They never seem to hear even your cry So as sure as the sun will shine I'm gonna get my share now What's mine?
[05:28.660 --> 05:34.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then the harder they come The harder they'll fall One and
[05:37.710 --> 05:44.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: all Ooh, the harder they come The harder they'll fall One and all
[05:47.220 --> 06:14.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, the oppressors are trying to keep me down Trying to drive me underground And they think that they have got the battle won I say forgive them, Lord They know not what they've done Cause as sure as the sun will shine I'm gonna get my share now What's mine?
[06:15.360 --> 06:29.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then the harder they come The harder they'll fall One and all One and all Ooh, the harder they come The harder they'll fall
[06:40.100 --> 06:42.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Ooh, yeah
[06:49.260 --> 07:17.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yeah And I keep on fighting for the things I want Though I know that when you're dead Though I know that when you're dead you can But I'd rather be a free man in my grave Than living as a puppet or a slave So as sure as the sun will shine I'm gonna get my shoe now,
[07:18.360 --> 07:19.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: what's mine?
[07:20.080 --> 07:26.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then the harder they come, the harder they fall, wanna know.
[07:29.220 --> 07:31.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ooh, the harder they come,
[07:41.180 --> 07:44.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: the harder they fall, wanna know.
[07:45.880 --> 07:49.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: What I say now, what I say now...
[08:05.640 --> 08:12.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: The harder they come, the harder they fall, wanna know.
[08:15.220 --> 08:21.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: The harder they come, the harder they fall, wanna know.
[08:25.040 --> 08:26.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: The harder they come, the harder they fall, wanna know.
[08:26.880 --> 08:27.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: The harder they come, the harder they fall, wanna know.
[08:39.380 --> 08:42.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: You just don't get any worse sound quality than that, do you?
[08:44.900 --> 08:49.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, anyway, that's what happens if you leave a phone off the hook here at WBAI.
[08:49.140 --> 08:51.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: You get all kinds of... static.
[08:52.220 --> 08:52.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Whoa!
[08:55.540 --> 08:56.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Among other things.
[09:00.580 --> 09:02.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's fade that one gracefully down.
[09:02.220 --> 09:17.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, we've had some rather interesting reports floating into this program as far as various odd occurrences that have been going on and other strange things involving the world of technology and telephones and you name it.
[09:17.620 --> 09:19.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sure there's plenty of stories out there.
[09:19.140 --> 09:19.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're going to be getting to those.
[09:20.000 --> 09:22.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-279-3400 is our phone number.
[09:23.400 --> 09:28.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we've got a couple of things to share right away.
[09:28.600 --> 09:28.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[09:29.880 --> 09:31.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's take a look at this story.
[09:31.420 --> 09:32.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: It comes out of Germany.
[09:32.720 --> 09:37.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, I brought this one back with me from Germany because I happen to know the people involved.
[09:37.540 --> 09:41.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: But computer hackers have dealt telephone banking a ringing setback...
[09:41.860 --> 09:43.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Don't you love the way they write these things?
[09:43.960 --> 09:51.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: ...in Germany after tapping into a Barclays Bank credit card hotline and sifting through confidential customer details.
[09:51.960 --> 09:58.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Barclays had to shut down its free answering service when hackers gave details of their actions to the news magazine De Spiegel.
[09:58.760 --> 10:01.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: They said they had easily cracked the passcode.
[10:02.000 --> 10:04.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: The passcode was 888.
[10:06.600 --> 10:07.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they figured that out.
[10:07.820 --> 10:14.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: They cracked it and they got in and they were able to access the information that had been stored through a voicemail system linked to an answering machine.
[10:14.800 --> 10:18.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: They claimed they had collected all the information necessary for a major fraud.
[10:19.380 --> 10:21.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: But these hackers did not commit a major fraud.
[10:21.800 --> 10:24.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: They went to the media and told them.
[10:25.880 --> 10:27.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Be nice to see more of that around here.
[10:28.300 --> 10:32.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Even though the media does tend to ignore it unless there's money in it for them of some sort.
[10:33.460 --> 10:38.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: The bank was accused of being negligent in not first testing the security of the system thoroughly.
[10:39.240 --> 10:42.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Relying instead on the fact that the Northern Telecom equipment was widely used.
[10:42.880 --> 10:47.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: But data protection officials said no action was being taken against the bank.
[10:47.320 --> 10:54.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Postal authorities were checking to see if any frauds had been committed against Barclays' customers or those of other banks using the same system.
[10:55.340 --> 11:06.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hans Gutschmidt, chairman of the association representing the country's major banks, said that the concept of telephone banking itself would emerge as the principal victim of the hacking scandal.
[11:08.740 --> 11:14.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: After this, I can't see telephone banking having a great future in Germany in the next few years, he said.
[11:14.420 --> 11:19.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: It may well be a trend in America, but German banks are traditionally very conservative.
[11:19.860 --> 11:23.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: This will put off anyone who may have been thinking of changing over.
[11:24.140 --> 11:28.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Germans were already known to be very wary of credit cards because of the danger of fraud.
[11:29.420 --> 11:39.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Renier Wenlin, marketing manager for Barclays, confirmed that the bank was still taking legal advice over the scandal and said other banks were at risk because of the hackers.
[11:41.860 --> 11:42.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: How do you like that?
[11:42.880 --> 11:52.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: They reveal the security hole and they're still the ones that are causing the risk, not the insecure system in the first place.
[11:52.860 --> 11:58.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: He continued, We just had bad luck that they got into our system and sold details to the press.
[11:58.340 --> 11:59.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, sold now.
[11:59.780 --> 12:00.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: How about that?
[12:00.960 --> 12:03.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Most hackers fall into one of two categories.
[12:03.280 --> 12:07.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: The criminals and those that make money by selling their information to the press.
[12:07.460 --> 12:09.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I can't believe this guy.
[12:09.860 --> 12:10.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Where's his phone number?
[12:11.040 --> 12:12.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, we'll get to that later.
[12:12.580 --> 12:16.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Other firms and credit businesses in Germany have Northern Telecom products.
[12:16.280 --> 12:18.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is not just a problem specific to Barclays.
[12:18.740 --> 12:25.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: We were told when we bought the system that it was the latest technology on the market, but we didn't know this meant it wasn't hacker-proof.
[12:26.980 --> 12:29.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, they could learn a thing or two listening to this program, couldn't they?
[12:31.760 --> 12:35.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: The free telephone line was in use out of normal banking hours.
[12:35.760 --> 12:37.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a European way of saying when the bank was closed.
[12:38.420 --> 12:46.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: It mainly took calls from customers applying for increases in their credit limit, confirming card receipts or reporting details of stolen cards.
[12:46.620 --> 12:51.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Most of our credit card customers used another phone number during office hours.
[12:51.360 --> 12:55.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: There were fewer than 100 calls with information of use to the hackers.
[12:56.660 --> 13:03.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Customers gave their names, card numbers, and expiration dates when calling into the Meridian Mail System.
[13:05.800 --> 13:08.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Meridian Mail Systems are rather easy to use.
[13:08.460 --> 13:10.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'll just say that and nothing more.
[13:11.160 --> 13:13.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it had been in use for several months.
[13:18.260 --> 13:25.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: And computer experts were said to be working on the Canadian equipment to set up a foolproof replacement for the vulnerable line.
[13:26.660 --> 13:30.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Ralph Wardman of the Hamburg Chaos Computer Club said he was not surprised.
[13:30.200 --> 13:34.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: He said voicemail is as easy to crack as a bike lock.
[13:35.180 --> 13:38.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'll tell you, Ralph, it's even easier than that because you don't have to break anything to get in.
[13:40.180 --> 13:47.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, how about this for an interesting telephone number, the Ross Perot 800 number.
[13:47.460 --> 13:55.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's give that a try now, actually, see if we can actually manage to get a phone line with a non-static-y connection.
[13:56.020 --> 13:56.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: How does that sound?
[13:57.760 --> 14:00.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it sounds good now, but the static usually comes in when you don't want it to.
[14:01.080 --> 14:02.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's give it a try.
[14:11.060 --> 14:13.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, we're calling Ross Perot now.
[14:15.940 --> 14:17.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: See, there's a static now.
[14:20.540 --> 14:23.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you for calling United We Stand, America.
[14:23.680 --> 14:30.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Your call is very important to us and will be included in our total count of callers supporting Ross Perot.
[14:30.740 --> 14:32.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you again for your value support.
[14:35.000 --> 14:35.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's it.
[14:36.160 --> 14:36.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: You call that.
[14:36.900 --> 14:40.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: They got 1.5 million calls the other day.
[14:41.160 --> 14:50.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, it's caused some controversy because, well, people were told by Ross Perot on the Larry King show to call this number.
[14:52.060 --> 14:57.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: And people thought, well, it was going to be some way of leaving feedback, not necessarily voting.
[14:58.120 --> 15:00.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bonnie Smith of San Diego says, I don't think that's playing fair.
[15:00.740 --> 15:01.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think it's misleading.
[15:02.220 --> 15:11.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: 55-year-old unemployed marketing manager who called the number to advise Perot to keep out of the presidential race and to stay away from her while he was at it.
[15:12.200 --> 15:13.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: To her, what, static now?
[15:14.140 --> 15:14.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's no phone.
[15:14.900 --> 15:15.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: How can I have static now?
[15:16.700 --> 15:18.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, boy, this place.
[15:18.720 --> 15:26.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: To her surprise, the automatic message at the other end said her call would be counted as a vote in favor of his joining the race.
[15:26.700 --> 15:28.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: That isn't democratic.
[15:28.680 --> 15:31.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: I got the impression it was to voice your opinion, she said.
[15:33.400 --> 15:43.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: What Perot actually said when he announced the number on Larry King Live was that Americans could call in to express their support, not opinions either way.
[15:44.380 --> 15:50.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they said they got 1.5 million calls just after it was announced until 1 a.m., which is a span of three and a half hours.
[15:51.820 --> 15:56.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it probably makes AT&T very happy or whatever company is handling that particular exchange.
[15:58.800 --> 16:01.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if people are interested in calling that number, we might as well give it out here too.
[16:01.960 --> 16:03.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: 1-800-925-1300.
[16:05.080 --> 16:06.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: And there's nothing hackable on it.
[16:06.980 --> 16:08.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: We already tried hitting every Touch-Tone.
[16:09.980 --> 16:11.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Doesn't have any effect whatsoever.
[16:13.240 --> 16:21.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, as I mentioned a couple of weeks ago, I was away in Eastern Europe for about three weeks and I came back about two weeks ago.
[16:22.060 --> 16:26.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I forgot to mention something on the radio about the experience I had coming back into this country.
[16:26.600 --> 16:33.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, if you recall, several months ago, I had quite a time getting back into the country from Canada.
[16:34.280 --> 16:38.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was harassed mercilessly with a friend at the American border.
[16:39.320 --> 16:42.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: They didn't like the hacker material that we had.
[16:42.600 --> 16:45.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: They didn't like various bits of hardware they couldn't understand.
[16:46.060 --> 16:48.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they just didn't like the way we looked, I guess.
[16:48.160 --> 16:48.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not quite sure.
[16:49.220 --> 16:50.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: They never really told us.
[16:50.660 --> 16:56.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: But they did keep us for a couple of hours and searched us relentlessly and tore the car apart and didn't find a blessed thing.
[16:56.760 --> 17:02.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I was expecting all kinds of problems coming into the country after having been to Eastern Europe.
[17:03.720 --> 17:04.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I was ready.
[17:05.060 --> 17:06.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: As ready as I could be.
[17:06.250 --> 17:07.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Ready mentally, anyway.
[17:07.990 --> 17:09.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, you know, you don't arm yourself or anything.
[17:09.820 --> 17:14.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: You just get ready for whatever it is that's about to happen to you and you have to take it in stride.
[17:14.970 --> 17:16.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's really the best you can do.
[17:16.800 --> 17:23.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: And since, you know, you come from this country in the first place, there's really not all that much they can do.
[17:23.210 --> 17:24.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: They can't send you away.
[17:24.440 --> 17:26.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: They have to take you sooner or later.
[17:26.080 --> 17:28.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it's just a question of how long you can hold out.
[17:29.030 --> 17:34.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I was taking all of this, getting off the plane, coming into the customs area.
[17:35.840 --> 17:39.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: And there's a couple of different places you have to go.
[17:39.320 --> 17:44.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have to go to the passport control people and then you have to go to the actual customs people.
[17:44.860 --> 17:52.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you get off the plane and first you walk into this passport control area and the person there is friendly.
[17:53.210 --> 17:56.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he asked me where I was and what I had been doing and I said, well, I was in Eastern Europe.
[17:56.940 --> 17:57.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he said, oh, really?
[17:57.600 --> 17:58.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: What countries did you go to?
[17:58.900 --> 17:59.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I told him.
[17:59.680 --> 18:05.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: I said, I was in Czechoslovakia and Hungary and Romania and Bulgaria and Yugoslavia and places like that.
[18:05.010 --> 18:06.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it was very interesting.
[18:06.970 --> 18:11.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he asked me what was most memorable about it.
[18:11.180 --> 18:14.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, a regular conversation with a human being.
[18:14.300 --> 18:17.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I haven't had one of those in quite some time with a U.S.
[18:17.580 --> 18:18.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: government official.
[18:19.000 --> 18:21.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I said, well, Romania was pretty memorable.
[18:21.250 --> 18:22.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was probably the scariest place I've ever been in my life.
[18:23.440 --> 18:26.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: So for that reason, it was a memorable place.
[18:26.820 --> 18:29.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he said, yeah, well, that's probably why I'm never going to go there.
[18:29.210 --> 18:34.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we had a good laugh and he put my passport into...
[18:34.510 --> 18:36.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: You see, most countries, they stamp your passport.
[18:36.250 --> 18:40.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: But in the United States, they put your passport under a barcode reader.
[18:40.820 --> 18:44.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: And so he put the thing under the barcode reader and it said, beep.
[18:44.460 --> 18:47.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he gave it back to me and said, have a nice day.
[18:47.200 --> 18:47.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Welcome back.
[18:47.580 --> 18:48.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: All that kind of thing.
[18:48.900 --> 18:51.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I said, thank you and walked my merry way down the hall.
[18:52.420 --> 19:03.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I realized as I was walking down this hall, this is the hall that goes to customs, that it was kind of curious why there was such a long hallway between the two places.
[19:03.420 --> 19:05.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, why not have them both at the same table?
[19:05.580 --> 19:18.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then I thought about the barcode and how by putting that thing under the barcode, they now know who's walking down that hallway and who's going to be rounding the corner and meeting up with the passport people, with the customs people, rather.
[19:18.970 --> 19:21.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: I thought that's a rather interesting way of doing it.
[19:21.380 --> 19:28.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's say I was Abu Nidal or something and I checked in with the passport control guy and said my various pleasantries and walked my merry way.
[19:29.570 --> 19:38.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: They would probably be waiting for me when I rounded that corner because their computer would tell them that someone of that nature was here and to welcome them accordingly.
[19:39.390 --> 19:44.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I was thinking about this and then I came across this poster and you got to check this out.
[19:44.640 --> 19:46.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: This was in Newark Airport.
[19:47.180 --> 19:48.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go out of the country and come back.
[19:48.620 --> 19:49.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's worth it just to do this.
[19:49.860 --> 19:50.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Look at the poster.
[19:50.800 --> 19:52.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: The poster says think twice.
[19:54.080 --> 20:06.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Think twice about smuggling drugs into this country because if you do smuggle drugs into this country there's all kinds of penalties that we're going to throw at you and you'll be very, very sorry and you really shouldn't do that and it's not nice and all that kind of thing.
[20:07.560 --> 20:09.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I thought to myself well that's just great.
[20:09.520 --> 20:11.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: What if somebody does think twice?
[20:11.420 --> 20:14.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: What if they decide okay I'm not going to do it.
[20:14.180 --> 20:14.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not going to go through with it.
[20:15.000 --> 20:16.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: What are they supposed to do?
[20:16.120 --> 20:17.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go back onto the airplane?
[20:17.710 --> 20:19.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: Drop their drugs there on the floor?
[20:19.300 --> 20:20.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, there's no wastebasket anywhere.
[20:21.010 --> 20:25.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean it was kind of a cruel joke to play on someone that is going through that.
[20:25.580 --> 20:26.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: This moral dilemma.
[20:28.050 --> 20:33.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: But fortunately that wasn't my moral dilemma so I just took a look at that sign and kept walking.
[20:33.960 --> 20:56.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it was this long line actually there were three long lines for customs and you know it wasn't too cheery a notion to have to wait on line after an eight hour plane flight but I resolved myself to doing that and I waited on line and after about five minutes this guy walks up to me and keep in mind I'm in the middle of the line not at the end not at the beginning I'm in the middle of the line
[20:56.120 --> 21:05.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: this guy walks up to me and he says he flashes a badge and he says United States Customs can I see your passport please?
[21:06.540 --> 21:21.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I said oh boy here we go here we go and this guy was not you know some low down person you could tell this guy was you know polished he was up there he was ranking whatever however they rank people in the customs bureau So I said, okay, here we go.
[21:21.040 --> 21:23.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I got my passport and gave it to him.
[21:23.920 --> 21:25.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he looked it over.
[21:25.600 --> 21:30.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the first question he asked me, and I thought this was rather odd, was, what countries were you in?
[21:31.900 --> 21:37.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's kind of odd that he would ask that question, because that's exactly what I was talking about with the passport control person.
[21:38.880 --> 21:41.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I said, well, I listed all the countries all over again.
[21:42.620 --> 21:48.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: And while I was doing this, he was writing something down on the little form that you bring into the country.
[21:49.020 --> 21:56.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have to bring in a form to declare things if you're bringing in various bits of things that you're supposed to declare, which I never bring in, so I don't ever have to declare anything.
[21:56.540 --> 22:00.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: You just write down your name and address and hand in the form as you enter the country.
[22:01.100 --> 22:03.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: So he took that form and he wrote something in red.
[22:03.200 --> 22:05.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was a completely illegible scrawl, as far as I could see.
[22:06.780 --> 22:08.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then he took it from me.
[22:09.000 --> 22:10.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he said, okay, you can go.
[22:11.890 --> 22:13.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I was amazed.
[22:13.440 --> 22:13.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: I said, what?
[22:13.780 --> 22:14.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's it?
[22:14.220 --> 22:15.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't have to wait on line?
[22:15.260 --> 22:17.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't have to go through the whole customs process?
[22:17.700 --> 22:18.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: They said, nope, go ahead.
[22:19.340 --> 22:23.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it was the exact opposite of what happened on the way back from Montreal.
[22:23.800 --> 22:24.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: The exact opposite.
[22:25.560 --> 22:34.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because there, they kept me waiting for a couple of hours and gave me the once-over, twice-over, however many times they felt like, and treated me like dirt.
[22:35.740 --> 22:38.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: In the end, of course, I wound up back in the country anyway.
[22:38.160 --> 22:40.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now this time, they did the exact opposite.
[22:40.720 --> 22:44.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: They allowed me to bypass the entire system.
[22:44.600 --> 22:45.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they selected me.
[22:45.840 --> 22:46.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: They walked up to me.
[22:49.120 --> 22:57.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, I don't mind saying that this one scares me a whole lot more than being searched and held for two hours.
[22:59.120 --> 23:04.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I realize, I'll never know what was in that red scrawl that he wrote on the card.
[23:05.560 --> 23:11.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'll also never know what kind of beeps and buzzes sound whenever my passport barcode comes across.
[23:12.660 --> 23:18.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, uh, it was, uh, yet another experience at the border, of which I seem to have quite a few.
[23:20.620 --> 23:28.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, speaking of computers, and I'd also be very interested in hearing anyone else's, uh, experiences going back and forth into, into this land.
[23:29.290 --> 23:30.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, computer.
[23:30.680 --> 23:33.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know if anybody, uh, heard this story.
[23:33.180 --> 23:36.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was in the New York Times today, and it's been bandied about the media a bit.
[23:36.040 --> 23:37.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's hilarious.
[23:38.120 --> 23:41.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: The headline says, Court computer says all of Hartford is dead.
[23:43.560 --> 23:50.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, court officials have figured out why Hartford residents were excluded from federal grand jury polls over the past three years.
[23:50.280 --> 23:53.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: The computer that selected names thought everyone in the city was dead.
[23:55.560 --> 23:59.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, those of us who have been up there, at least recently, can attest otherwise.
[23:59.660 --> 24:08.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Federal district court workers discovered the computer error while investigating why no Hartford residents had been on lists of prospective grand jurors.
[24:08.720 --> 24:09.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Here's what happened.
[24:09.900 --> 24:17.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: The city's name had been listed in the wrong place on computer records, forcing the D at the end of Hartford into the next column.
[24:18.140 --> 24:21.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that next column, if there is a D there, it means dead.
[24:22.640 --> 24:31.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, apparently, they thought they were off in the city of Hartford, and the extra D, or the D that wasn't used in Hartford, wound up in another column.
[24:32.300 --> 24:34.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Incredible what you can do with computers these days.
[24:35.060 --> 24:37.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: And imagine if that investigation had never been launched.
[24:37.360 --> 24:43.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: If they had never wondered why people from Hartford were never on grand juries.
[24:44.900 --> 24:46.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Three years that went on.
[24:49.040 --> 24:56.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, every time the names of Hartford residents popped up for jury duty, the computer noted the deaths and declined to send them juror questionnaires.
[24:58.300 --> 25:01.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they may very well have declared them dead someplace else, too.
[25:01.460 --> 25:08.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because, you know, a computer making up its mind about something like that, it's a pretty serious thing and pretty irrefutable.
[25:08.820 --> 25:20.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: For instance, a computer somewhere at the hospital that I get occasional checkups, you know, you go into a hospital a few years just to see somebody in a clinic or something.
[25:20.920 --> 25:24.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: At some point, they decided to change the date of birth.
[25:25.020 --> 25:26.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: They moved it up one day.
[25:26.680 --> 25:32.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: And so, every time I have to register somewhere, I have to correct them.
[25:33.060 --> 25:35.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: And say, no, it's not this day, it's that date.
[25:35.240 --> 25:39.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the computer somehow took it upon itself to change the date of my birth.
[25:40.180 --> 25:43.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: And now I've got to spend the rest of my life correcting other people.
[25:43.800 --> 25:45.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because I know it's never going to be changed.
[25:45.620 --> 25:47.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's never actually going to be changed.
[25:48.920 --> 25:52.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, when a computer decides something, it's pretty much forever.
[25:54.180 --> 25:56.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, one final thing, then we'll get some phone calls.
[25:57.800 --> 26:01.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that final thing is a phone number.
[26:01.380 --> 26:02.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, another phone number.
[26:02.620 --> 26:07.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, let me see if I can actually dial this successfully.
[26:07.380 --> 26:10.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's see if we can get a non-staticky dial tone.
[26:11.180 --> 26:13.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, it's about as good as we can get, I guess.
[26:15.240 --> 26:17.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's give that number a call.
[26:19.100 --> 26:23.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: And what this is, is a call to something known as the CNA Bureau.
[26:24.820 --> 26:27.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: But there's something different about this one.
[26:29.100 --> 26:30.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: Something very different.
[26:33.640 --> 26:35.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, here we go.
[26:40.440 --> 26:41.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Take a listen.
[26:47.140 --> 26:51.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you for calling Michigan Bell's automated CNA Bureau.
[26:51.760 --> 26:54.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: The system is restricted to authorized personnel only.
[26:54.880 --> 26:59.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: By using your touchstone telephone, please enter your ID number.
[27:00.540 --> 27:06.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, if I was an authorized member, I would enter my ID number, which, of course, is not going to be valid.
[27:06.820 --> 27:07.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: At least, I hope not.
[27:08.160 --> 27:09.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: If it is, I'll hang up right away.
[27:11.280 --> 27:11.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry.
[27:12.220 --> 27:16.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: The number you have entered, 279, is not valid.
[27:17.000 --> 27:19.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Please enter your identification number again.
[27:20.080 --> 27:23.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's enter the phone number, the full phone number of this radio station.
[27:31.110 --> 27:31.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good night.
[27:32.610 --> 27:34.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I guess he didn't like that number at all.
[27:34.450 --> 27:39.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, the CNA Bureau stands for Customer Name and Address.
[27:39.490 --> 27:47.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that allows you to take a phone number or take an address and find out the name of the person attached to it.
[27:47.550 --> 27:52.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's something that's existed for years and years, maybe even decades.
[27:52.850 --> 27:56.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: But what's interesting about this one, and this one has existed for some time, too.
[27:56.190 --> 27:57.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: I remember playing with it some years ago.
[27:58.270 --> 28:01.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: This one is automated, in case you couldn't tell by the guy's voice.
[28:01.430 --> 28:03.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Believe me, when you talk to some of the humans, it's hard to tell.
[28:04.670 --> 28:10.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: But you can key in any phone number, and even if it's unlisted, it will tell you who it belongs to.
[28:10.910 --> 28:12.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the most incredible system.
[28:13.630 --> 28:25.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm told, although this is by no means something that's necessarily reliable, I'm told that the code is only three digits long.
[28:26.490 --> 28:29.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: So that's not a very secure system, if that is so.
[28:29.570 --> 28:33.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, of course, no system is secure as long as there are human beings involved someplace.
[28:34.470 --> 28:37.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I think if you see sneakers, you can appreciate that fact.
[28:37.770 --> 28:39.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's talk about sneakers tonight, too.
[28:39.430 --> 28:49.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: If anybody has seen that film, anybody has any comments on it, and questions about it, or criticisms, then this certainly is one of the places to air them anyway.
[28:52.530 --> 29:02.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's just about 9.28, and we might as well move to our first listener phone call, 212-279-3400.
[29:02.590 --> 29:04.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: The program is off the hook.
[29:05.030 --> 29:06.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening, you're on.
[29:06.570 --> 29:07.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi.
[29:07.990 --> 29:09.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm glad to talk to you again.
[29:09.690 --> 29:11.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: I haven't spoken to you in a long time.
[29:11.850 --> 29:14.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: I have some questions and comments.
[29:14.510 --> 29:15.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's exactly what we're here for.
[29:15.990 --> 29:16.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[29:16.390 --> 29:27.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, the first comment is, I remember talking last time about, if you find a broken payphone, like, or a stuffed payphone, meaning, you know, it's a coin return is stuffed.
[29:28.090 --> 29:28.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[29:29.550 --> 29:44.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Instead of dialing 611, they want you to dial another number, because I talked to a telephone repairman, and he said, when you dial 611, it registers as a customer complaint, and it's not good for the repairman, because they sort of get, like, put down by that.
[29:44.390 --> 29:51.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he gave me an 800 number to dial, in case, and it's fully automated, so that when you dial it, you can follow the instructions.
[29:51.750 --> 29:54.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: And the number is 1-800...
[29:57.330 --> 30:00.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's N-Y-T-COIN.
[30:00.450 --> 30:01.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I hate those numbers.
[30:01.550 --> 30:01.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: Tell it.
[30:02.190 --> 30:04.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: N-New York Telephone-COIN.
[30:04.590 --> 30:10.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, so that's 6-9-8 and, uh...
[30:10.070 --> 30:11.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: 2-6.
[30:11.830 --> 30:12.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: I feel like a moron.
[30:13.590 --> 30:14.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: 4-6.
[30:14.730 --> 30:15.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's right.
[30:15.930 --> 30:16.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[30:16.810 --> 30:17.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just dial.
[30:17.250 --> 30:19.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just if you don't remember, just dial N-Y-T-COIN.
[30:19.630 --> 30:20.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: 1-800-N-Y-T-COIN.
[30:20.990 --> 30:22.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a fully automated system, eh?
[30:22.290 --> 30:23.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a fully automated system.
[30:23.330 --> 30:24.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just follow the instructions.
[30:25.190 --> 30:27.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: And speaking of 800 numbers...
[30:27.030 --> 30:28.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, tell us, what are the instructions?
[30:28.310 --> 30:29.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: What does it ask you to do?
[30:29.110 --> 30:30.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: It asks you, it says, thank you for...
[30:30.750 --> 30:35.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, by the way, it's called a VIP report, so you have to press 1, and, um...
[30:35.410 --> 30:36.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: it's a VIP thing.
[30:36.830 --> 30:40.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, it just means VIP, and it just registers as a VIP report.
[30:40.690 --> 30:41.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you can only call if you're a VIP.
[30:42.250 --> 30:42.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is that it?
[30:42.690 --> 30:43.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, no, you can't...
[30:43.570 --> 30:44.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: Anyone can call this number.
[30:44.790 --> 30:47.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just, you know, you can call it and, uh...
[30:47.730 --> 30:48.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: just follow the instructions.
[30:48.870 --> 30:50.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: You have to say it and...
[30:50.970 --> 30:51.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: as VIP.
[30:52.530 --> 30:55.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't understand what that means, but I'll just accept it.
[30:55.110 --> 30:58.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't either, but, you know, it's just something that they asked me.
[30:58.910 --> 31:01.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's what they told me to do, and I'm just saying it for everyone.
[31:02.030 --> 31:07.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: If they find a broken payphone instead of calling 611, call this 800 number.
[31:08.070 --> 31:11.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, the other thing I wanted to ask you was, are there...
[31:11.270 --> 31:12.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: what are the, um...
[31:12.430 --> 31:16.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: 1-800 numbers not going to be depending on the exchange for long-distance companies?
[31:16.430 --> 31:19.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, that's scheduled to happen, I believe, next spring.
[31:19.950 --> 31:21.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: I heard April of 1993.
[31:21.170 --> 31:26.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: What that means is, right now, the exchanges, like, for instance, uh...
[31:26.130 --> 31:29.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: 800-279 belongs to a particular company.
[31:30.330 --> 31:32.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: 222 belongs to a particular company.
[31:32.090 --> 31:37.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, various exchanges have different companies that, that actually process the call.
[31:37.170 --> 31:41.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: And what's going to happen is, any number can be processed by any individual company.
[31:41.910 --> 31:54.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: For instance, uh, uh, 279-3400, 800, that is, not, not our phone number, uh, could be an AT&T number, whereas 800-279-3401 can be a sprint number, and 3402 could be an MCI number.
[31:54.470 --> 31:58.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, it'll, it'll be dependent on the number itself, not the whole exchange.
[31:58.050 --> 32:01.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: And what that means is, customers can move to a different company.
[32:01.530 --> 32:05.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: They can keep the 800 number they have now, and move to a, you know, a company with better rates.
[32:05.990 --> 32:09.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, the number would belong to the customer, not the, not the company.
[32:09.490 --> 32:12.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you know if, what they're going to do when they run out of 1-800 numbers?
[32:12.490 --> 32:13.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's a good question.
[32:13.390 --> 32:15.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, it's, uh, it seems like they should.
[32:15.830 --> 32:20.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: It seems like they should run out of 800 numbers fairly soon, because, uh, People are using them.
[32:20.170 --> 32:21.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, people are using them.
[32:21.150 --> 32:22.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have personal 800 numbers.
[32:22.370 --> 32:23.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have all kinds of use for them.
[32:23.710 --> 32:27.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe, like, like, I know you can dial an 800 number, and that will be only used
[32:30.870 --> 32:32.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's starting to go away, though.
[32:33.230 --> 32:35.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're starting to see less and less of in-state only use.
[32:36.270 --> 32:36.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Really?
[32:36.770 --> 32:41.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because it doesn't really cost much more to have an out-of-state number than an in-state number.
[32:41.270 --> 32:47.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I was thinking of maybe a 600 number for local toll-free...
[32:47.230 --> 32:47.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, it's funny.
[32:47.750 --> 32:48.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was thinking 600, too.
[32:48.790 --> 32:52.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: That seemed the next logical thing, because 700 is taken and 900 is taken.
[32:52.270 --> 32:59.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: 600 does seem like something they should use for... Maybe they'll divide up the country, like the West Coast will be 800 and the East Coast will be 600 or something like that.
[32:59.310 --> 33:02.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or how about residential toll-free and business toll-free?
[33:02.650 --> 33:03.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's true.
[33:03.350 --> 33:03.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, they could do that.
[33:04.010 --> 33:04.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's true.
[33:05.710 --> 33:12.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: And also, what... Let's see.
[33:12.530 --> 33:15.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: I told you about the 2-1-1 that gives you the operator.
[33:17.210 --> 33:19.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: 2-1-1 does give you an operator.
[33:19.170 --> 33:19.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is that...
[33:19.650 --> 33:19.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[33:19.850 --> 33:22.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's how you could bypass some restrictions on PBXs.
[33:22.410 --> 33:22.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: I see.
[33:22.990 --> 33:23.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[33:23.930 --> 33:24.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[33:24.510 --> 33:28.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: And speaking of PBXs, your PBX probably doesn't have a good sound quality sometimes.
[33:28.370 --> 33:29.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's why you get that static.
[33:29.950 --> 33:35.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, actually, our phone system is wired into the board here, and I don't think anybody's looked at it in about 25 years.
[33:35.330 --> 33:39.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, hopefully, if people send telegrams saying, please fix the phones here, maybe they'll get fixed.
[33:39.770 --> 33:40.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[33:40.370 --> 33:41.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: It sure would be nice.
[33:42.110 --> 33:45.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: And... You know, one thing I can't stand is the fact that people can't hear back and forth.
[33:45.570 --> 33:51.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: I keep talking over you, and you keep talking over me, and, you know, we can't have a two-way conversation, because... By the way, you have a tape, that thing.
[33:51.230 --> 33:53.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hear you have the old system where you have a tape delay.
[33:53.930 --> 33:54.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[33:54.410 --> 33:55.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: Is there a newer system?
[33:55.570 --> 33:56.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's digital delay now.
[33:57.070 --> 33:57.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now?
[33:57.470 --> 33:57.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[33:57.650 --> 33:58.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Some radios use digital now.
[33:59.090 --> 34:01.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, you're actually becoming ones and zeros right now when you speak.
[34:02.290 --> 34:06.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Before... Yeah, the old system, you would be an endless loop tape, and that tape got pretty worn out.
[34:06.550 --> 34:06.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[34:06.830 --> 34:08.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Which is what you have now?
[34:09.070 --> 34:10.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have digital delay.
[34:10.290 --> 34:11.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, you do now?
[34:11.250 --> 34:11.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, sure we do.
[34:12.070 --> 34:14.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: When I went to the station, I saw the old tape delay.
[34:14.910 --> 34:16.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, maybe you saw it, but we're not using it.
[34:17.210 --> 34:17.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, really?
[34:18.090 --> 34:18.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[34:18.830 --> 34:22.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm looking at flashing lights right now that say digital delay, so we're all digital now.
[34:22.670 --> 34:23.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Nobody show me.
[34:23.550 --> 34:23.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[34:23.690 --> 34:34.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: But anyway, this customer name and address thing, what if... I know nobody could do it, because they don't have the codes, but I wonder what would happen if you dial a strange number like 950 or whatever.
[34:36.050 --> 34:37.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: What do you mean by a strange number?
[34:37.130 --> 34:41.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: You mean just enter that as... Strange or... It would probably say it couldn't figure out...
[34:41.490 --> 34:41.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: 2300 or whatever.
[34:41.910 --> 34:44.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: It probably wouldn't be able to figure it out, because they don't bill that number.
[34:45.030 --> 34:45.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's no reason for them to.
[34:46.110 --> 34:46.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: When do you bill it?
[34:47.210 --> 34:48.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I imagine... Oh, right.
[34:48.890 --> 34:53.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're looking at phone bill type things to indicate who is attached to it.
[34:54.850 --> 34:57.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it would have to be a number that has a customer.
[34:57.450 --> 34:57.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's put it that way.
[34:59.090 --> 34:59.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[35:00.650 --> 35:01.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, any other questions?
[35:01.890 --> 35:08.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you know if they're going to have like a 3... Oh, by the way, 311 gives you Touch-Tones instead of 711 now.
[35:10.070 --> 35:10.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, wait.
[35:10.630 --> 35:14.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: You have to tell me what... I remember when I said that 711 in Queens.
[35:14.430 --> 35:16.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Both the Queens gave you these Touch-Tones.
[35:16.390 --> 35:19.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: I wish that I could... You know what?
[35:19.710 --> 35:21.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to play you the Touch-Tones.
[35:21.230 --> 35:22.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let me get my cordless phone.
[35:22.210 --> 35:22.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Could you hold?
[35:22.730 --> 35:26.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, if you play us Touch-Tones, you might be playing your phone number, and I'm not sure you want to do that.
[35:26.410 --> 35:26.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, I'm not.
[35:27.510 --> 35:28.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's the same one.
[35:28.910 --> 35:29.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[35:29.430 --> 35:29.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[35:29.690 --> 35:31.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, make it fast, because we have other calls we want to get to.
[35:32.090 --> 35:33.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[35:33.430 --> 35:35.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: As he's walking across the room, let me repeat.
[35:35.950 --> 35:43.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Our phone number is 212-279-3400, and hopefully he has that all queued up on tape there, because... Hold on.
[35:43.990 --> 35:44.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Here.
[35:52.620 --> 35:53.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then it hangs up.
[35:53.700 --> 35:54.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hold on.
[35:54.140 --> 35:55.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, that's going into like a disco kind of a thing.
[35:57.660 --> 35:58.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's nice.
[35:58.280 --> 35:58.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: I like it.
[35:58.820 --> 35:59.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's catchy.
[35:59.780 --> 36:00.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: I know.
[36:00.360 --> 36:02.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: I call it the 311 song.
[36:02.880 --> 36:03.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[36:04.240 --> 36:06.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's what I get when I dial 311.
[36:06.860 --> 36:07.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Really?
[36:07.300 --> 36:09.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's try something here.
[36:09.560 --> 36:09.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[36:09.820 --> 36:10.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: You want me to hang up?
[36:10.900 --> 36:13.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, well, I want you to, I want you to cue that up again.
[36:14.220 --> 36:15.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: You want me to play it again?
[36:15.520 --> 36:15.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[36:15.980 --> 36:20.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I want, what I want you to do this time is, uh, let's see.
[36:20.380 --> 36:23.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: This time, try to play it as loudly as you can into the phone.
[36:23.940 --> 36:32.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: What I'm going to do is... I have two phone numbers here, and I'm like holding one, so play it again.
[36:32.890 --> 36:33.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[36:33.410 --> 36:34.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've got a dial tone here, okay?
[36:34.710 --> 36:35.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: You hear my dial tone?
[36:35.590 --> 36:35.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[36:35.750 --> 36:40.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: What I'm going to do is allow you to feed those tones into my dial tone, and maybe it'll dial something.
[36:40.890 --> 36:41.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll figure out what those numbers are.
[36:41.830 --> 36:41.830]  Okay.
[36:41.830 --> 36:42.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: I doubt it will, but hold on.
[36:42.890 --> 36:43.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[36:48.490 --> 36:49.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, you know, you know what?
[36:49.790 --> 36:50.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're going to have to dial a 9 first.
[36:51.110 --> 36:51.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do you have a touch-down phone?
[36:53.050 --> 36:55.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh... Hold on.
[36:55.310 --> 36:56.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let me get the cordless.
[36:58.090 --> 36:59.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, this is, this is exciting.
[36:59.470 --> 37:02.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is, uh, experimentation at its best here at WBAI.
[37:03.650 --> 37:04.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[37:04.350 --> 37:05.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Here, here's the cordless.
[37:06.090 --> 37:08.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, now, can you dial a 9 first?
[37:09.190 --> 37:09.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[37:09.690 --> 37:09.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[37:09.830 --> 37:10.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you want me to do that now?
[37:11.170 --> 37:13.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, yeah.
[37:14.330 --> 37:14.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hang on.
[37:14.990 --> 37:16.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wait until you hear the dial tone.
[37:16.350 --> 37:16.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[37:18.190 --> 37:19.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: And... I'm just trying to get a free line here.
[37:19.970 --> 37:21.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's impossible to get a free line.
[37:21.070 --> 37:22.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Everyone's calling every single line that we have.
[37:23.230 --> 37:23.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[37:26.050 --> 37:27.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're trying to get a line.
[37:27.150 --> 37:28.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're trying to fight off the listeners.
[37:28.470 --> 37:29.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, we've got a dial tone now.
[37:29.570 --> 37:30.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Feed a 9 down the line.
[37:33.390 --> 37:33.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hello?
[37:34.730 --> 37:35.050]  Oops.
[37:35.230 --> 37:36.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hold on just one more minute.
[37:42.640 --> 37:44.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, that's not loud enough.
[37:44.280 --> 37:44.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not loud enough.
[37:44.960 --> 37:46.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, it's definitely not loud enough.
[37:46.430 --> 37:47.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely not loud enough.
[37:47.690 --> 37:48.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: It has to be certain.
[37:48.580 --> 37:56.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: Listen, what, uh, what you have to do is call a voicemail system or something and, uh, and find out what those numbers are.
[37:56.770 --> 37:57.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or, uh...
[37:57.560 --> 38:00.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: I, I, I've asked, and nobody seems to know.
[38:00.390 --> 38:00.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[38:00.580 --> 38:01.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Play them one more time over the radio.
[38:01.890 --> 38:05.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hopefully somebody out there will record it and then decode it and send it in to us or tell us.
[38:06.230 --> 38:06.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay?
[38:06.700 --> 38:07.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead.
[38:07.190 --> 38:07.360]  All right.
[38:17.930 --> 38:19.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then when I flash, it does that.
[38:19.810 --> 38:20.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[38:20.170 --> 38:21.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: That certainly is, uh, something.
[38:21.950 --> 38:23.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's, that's the mystery of, uh, of the week here.
[38:23.830 --> 38:25.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we'll see if our, our listeners are able to, uh, to solve that.
[38:26.130 --> 38:27.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Listen, thanks so much for calling in.
[38:27.470 --> 38:27.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[38:28.110 --> 38:30.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'll, uh, speak to you some other time.
[38:30.410 --> 38:30.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[38:30.970 --> 38:31.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bye.
[38:31.650 --> 38:32.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[38:32.010 --> 38:40.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: And what we're going to do, uh, at this particular juncture is, uh, give a call to that very number.
[38:40.550 --> 38:45.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not, uh, not the number he just was playing now, but, uh, the coin number.
[38:45.890 --> 38:48.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's see what, uh, what they ask you to do.
[38:52.490 --> 38:52.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[38:53.070 --> 38:55.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll, uh, see what this automated system is all about.
[39:00.620 --> 39:04.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you for calling the public communications trouble reporting system.
[39:05.240 --> 39:07.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: To report a VIP, press one.
[39:07.920 --> 39:10.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: To report a coin collector trouble, press two.
[39:11.320 --> 39:14.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: To report a technician pickup, press three.
[39:14.880 --> 39:18.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you are calling from a rotary phone, please wait.
[39:18.660 --> 39:19.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[39:19.120 --> 39:20.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll do the VIP thing.
[39:20.840 --> 39:24.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Welcome to the public communication VIP hotline.
[39:24.620 --> 39:30.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: If the telephone number you are reporting is unknown, press zero for an agent.
[39:30.520 --> 39:35.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Should you require an agent at any time during this call, press zero.
[39:35.500 --> 39:38.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: To repeat these instructions, press the pound sign.
[39:39.020 --> 39:41.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Press one to begin the trouble report.
[39:41.840 --> 39:42.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[39:42.520 --> 39:43.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: We want to begin the trouble report.
[39:43.920 --> 39:44.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: So we'll press one.
[39:45.540 --> 39:49.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Please enter the area code and telephone number that you are reporting.
[39:49.920 --> 39:52.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you make a mistake, press the star key.
[39:53.320 --> 39:56.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Enter the area code and telephone number now.
[39:56.420 --> 39:57.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, this is where it could be interesting.
[39:57.620 --> 40:02.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're going to enter the WBAI phone number, which is not a payphone.
[40:02.620 --> 40:03.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: And let's see if it picks that up.
[40:05.320 --> 40:12.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have entered area code two, one, two, two, seven, nine, three, four, zero, zero.
[40:12.920 --> 40:15.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: If this number is correct, press one.
[40:15.700 --> 40:17.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: If incorrect, press two.
[40:18.180 --> 40:18.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[40:18.860 --> 40:20.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's say it's correct for now.
[40:20.660 --> 40:25.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Please hold on momentarily while we retrieve your repair records.
[40:25.640 --> 40:27.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Press one for no dial tone.
[40:28.240 --> 40:30.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Press two for coins fall through.
[40:31.180 --> 40:33.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Press three for block slot.
[40:33.720 --> 40:36.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Press four for no coin return.
[40:36.980 --> 40:39.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Press five for vandalized equipment.
[40:39.860 --> 40:42.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Press six for can't call out.
[40:42.640 --> 40:46.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Press seven for noise, can't hear, or can't be heard.
[40:47.200 --> 40:51.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Press eight for instruction card missing, incorrect, or vandalized.
[40:52.180 --> 40:55.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Press nine to repeat the trouble description.
[40:55.540 --> 40:58.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Press pound to cancel this trouble report.
[40:58.760 --> 40:59.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: My word.
[41:00.000 --> 41:01.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, coins fall right through.
[41:02.140 --> 41:03.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: So let's do that one.
[41:03.200 --> 41:07.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Trouble will be fixed on October 1, 1992.
[41:08.460 --> 41:12.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you would like to report another trouble number, press one.
[41:12.260 --> 41:20.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: So am I supposed to expect that somebody's going to come over here and fix our phone so that the coins don't fall through, even though we don't have payphones?
[41:21.420 --> 41:24.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Obviously, there is no checking being done on this particular system.
[41:24.520 --> 41:29.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it might just be something to placate the masses and make them seem as if something's being done.
[41:29.540 --> 41:31.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I don't know.
[41:31.880 --> 41:32.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[41:32.480 --> 41:35.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: If somebody comes by here to fix the payphones, I'm sure I'll hear about it.
[41:35.160 --> 41:36.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I don't think that's ever going to happen.
[41:38.320 --> 41:38.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[41:38.980 --> 41:39.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[41:39.700 --> 41:40.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on the air.
[41:40.480 --> 41:40.680]  Hi.
[41:43.570 --> 41:55.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: You give up some numbers, you know, to get the telephone number that you're using, you know, and all these kind of numbers, 700 numbers.
[41:56.250 --> 41:59.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Could you, can you just tell me those numbers again?
[41:59.610 --> 42:01.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because every time you say it, I'm...
[42:01.730 --> 42:04.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, tell me what number you're looking, what kind of number are you looking for?
[42:04.410 --> 42:05.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a lot of numbers.
[42:05.530 --> 42:09.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: It would be like star 69, and if I do that, I'll get my number back?
[42:09.990 --> 42:10.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, no, no.
[42:10.970 --> 42:12.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, what area are you in?
[42:12.550 --> 42:13.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm in 212 area code.
[42:14.010 --> 42:14.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[42:14.290 --> 42:19.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: In 212, if you want to hear your phone number, you can dial 958, and that will tell you what your phone number is.
[42:19.810 --> 42:20.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[42:20.570 --> 42:24.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, how about, is there... I remember one time you gave out a 700 number.
[42:32.290 --> 42:37.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: That was, you know, um, like some kind of test on the phone, or to, to, to ring back or something.
[42:38.150 --> 42:45.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, I don't recall which number you're, you're, you're talking about, but, uh, ring back is, is something that generally goes through an exchange known as 660.
[42:45.950 --> 42:51.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: In some areas, 660 plus the last four digits, and you toggle the switch and hang up, and it will, uh, ring you back.
[42:51.930 --> 42:53.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's, that's in some places.
[42:53.030 --> 42:54.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Other places, it's a different number.
[42:54.970 --> 43:02.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, there's all kinds of, of other weird things, and, uh, the best thing to do is just write down these numbers as they come across, because they are changing a lot.
[43:02.690 --> 43:02.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[43:03.070 --> 43:15.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then, so, you, you mentioned some number, like, if I got a prank phone call, and I, and I wanted to call that person back, all I had to do was, was dial a number, and it would immediately... Yeah, well, it doesn't work yet in New York City.
[43:15.670 --> 43:20.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: I, I'm told that, uh, people in New York are starting to get handouts saying the caller ID will be here in November.
[43:21.310 --> 43:24.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, and at that time, what you'll be able to do is dial star 69.
[43:25.030 --> 43:26.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it's possible it might work already.
[43:26.370 --> 43:27.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: You just have to try it.
[43:27.310 --> 43:30.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: But star 69 will get you the last number.
[43:30.790 --> 43:32.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, it will call back the last number that called you.
[43:33.430 --> 43:37.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, and there's no way to, to block somebody from doing that to you.
[43:37.110 --> 43:42.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you call somebody directly, there's no way that they cannot star 69 you back if they have that service.
[43:42.550 --> 43:48.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Whereas, caller ID, you can prevent your number from being shown on the screen, but, uh, to many people, there isn't much of a difference between the two.
[43:49.090 --> 43:56.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, well, um, this one, uh, called 9581, would that work, say, like, in a company where they have, uh, their own phone system and all kinds?
[43:56.930 --> 43:59.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: It depends if, if they've blocked it out or not.
[43:59.530 --> 44:07.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, some places, for no good reason, really, they block out the 958 exchange so you can't call it, uh, which makes it a lot more difficult.
[44:07.590 --> 44:11.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you have to somehow figure out how to get an unrestricted dial tone so you can do that.
[44:11.970 --> 44:20.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Also, uh, alternate pay funds, that's a favorite tactic of theirs, is, uh, to block out 958 so you can't find out the number of the pay funds.
[44:20.170 --> 44:23.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you have to do other things, you know, like make, collect calls from it to find out what the number is.
[44:24.650 --> 44:25.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um...
[44:25.010 --> 44:28.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, well, what, what is the 700, uh, area code used for?
[44:28.950 --> 44:31.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: The 700 area code is, uh, carrier-specific.
[44:31.810 --> 44:37.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: That means that, uh, uh, a 700 number on AT&T is different from a 700 number on MCI.
[44:37.830 --> 44:46.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, so, uh, for instance, AT&T has, uh, a new easy reach service which, uh, allows you to have a number that you can forward virtually any place in the country.
[44:46.450 --> 44:51.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's, it's advertised as, uh, your number for life, it'll follow you around wherever you go.
[44:51.850 --> 44:54.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, and that's something that's used with AT&T.
[44:54.710 --> 45:00.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you have MCI, you'd have to dial the AT&T carrier access code of 10288 before you dial the 0700 number.
[45:01.170 --> 45:08.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, and similarly, MCI has numbers, and other companies have numbers, and you have to make sure you use their service to, to access them.
[45:08.470 --> 45:13.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, you've, you've already, you know, proved that cellular phones, you know, are not private and everything.
[45:14.190 --> 45:19.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, I mean, um, do you think it's, it's a bad idea to use cellular phones?
[45:19.490 --> 45:20.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, was that the point of your show?
[45:21.070 --> 45:23.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, it's a bad idea if you want to, uh, maintain privacy.
[45:24.130 --> 45:29.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: But then again, you have to keep in mind that privacy is something that's, uh, becoming increasingly difficult to, uh, to maintain.
[45:30.370 --> 45:38.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, we use satellites, uh, we use cordless phones, uh, people are able to tap into your line all kinds of different ways.
[45:38.090 --> 45:39.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: The government wants there to be even more ways.
[45:40.350 --> 45:49.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, uh, it's something that people should be aware of, the fact that it's, it's so easy to listen in, so easy to, uh, you know, to have your life out there on the public airwaves.
[45:50.350 --> 45:58.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so how much do you think it would cost, you know, to buy a scanner, like in Radio Shack, so that I could, you know, eavesdrop on, on cellular calls?
[45:58.610 --> 45:59.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, okay, I gotta tell you something.
[46:00.430 --> 46:08.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not illegal to own a scanner like that, it's not illegal to buy a scanner like that, it's not illegal to sell a scanner like that, but it is illegal to listen, as long as you understand that.
[46:08.610 --> 46:10.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's how the, that's how the law works.
[46:10.670 --> 46:13.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, a scanner itself, of that nature, would cost you a couple hundred bucks.
[46:14.270 --> 46:16.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: What do you mean, like 300, more than 300?
[46:16.530 --> 46:17.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you want.
[46:17.530 --> 46:22.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you want something that's, you know, continuous, receives just about everything on the spectrum, yeah, you'd pay more than 300.
[46:22.750 --> 46:28.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: But you can get a scanner that will cover the 800 megahertz, which is where these calls are.
[46:28.750 --> 46:31.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: You cover that particular area for a couple hundred, I think.
[46:32.150 --> 46:35.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: So it ranges from 800 megahertz, and how high does it have to go?
[46:37.270 --> 46:39.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Generally, just below 800 megahertz, I believe.
[46:39.950 --> 46:41.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't have the exact numbers in front of me.
[46:41.690 --> 46:43.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: Just below 800 megahertz?
[46:43.350 --> 46:46.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, above 800 megahertz, but the low part of it, I believe.
[46:47.030 --> 46:48.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, so it's like...
[46:48.170 --> 46:49.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not 100% sure of that.
[46:49.470 --> 46:50.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: I could be completely wrong about that.
[46:50.930 --> 46:53.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you want an 800 megahertz scanner.
[46:53.410 --> 46:54.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Everybody knows what that means.
[46:54.990 --> 46:55.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, thank you.
[46:55.770 --> 46:56.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Have a good night.
[46:56.510 --> 46:57.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, you too.
[46:58.110 --> 47:03.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I hope we're all safe from that person, as he now that listens in on everybody's phone calls from now on.
[47:04.510 --> 47:05.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[47:05.610 --> 47:06.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, am I on?
[47:07.130 --> 47:07.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hold on, let me check.
[47:08.030 --> 47:08.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, you're on.
[47:08.890 --> 47:09.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, marvelous.
[47:09.750 --> 47:10.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just dialed it down.
[47:11.170 --> 47:12.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've been waiting here for a dog's age.
[47:12.570 --> 47:14.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.
[47:15.290 --> 47:15.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yep.
[47:15.830 --> 47:19.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to ask, first of all, I received a sample issue of 2600.
[47:19.770 --> 47:23.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is that identical in format, font size, and page number as the regular issues?
[47:25.430 --> 47:26.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I'm not sure what you're asking.
[47:26.490 --> 47:27.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: How could it be otherwise?
[47:27.630 --> 47:28.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I don't know.
[47:28.510 --> 47:33.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Some companies or some people, when they make a sample, it is literally a smaller...
[47:33.490 --> 47:33.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, no.
[47:34.330 --> 47:34.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, no.
[47:34.830 --> 47:36.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: We send out the original.
[47:37.170 --> 47:37.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[47:37.510 --> 47:39.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, you're getting the same thing as everybody else.
[47:39.490 --> 47:40.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: No changes or modifications.
[47:41.490 --> 47:49.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, because it looked like it was only like about 40 pages versus, you know, like 90 pages or 75 pages in the listings.
[47:49.490 --> 47:50.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, it's 48 pages.
[47:51.090 --> 47:52.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's been that way since 1988.
[47:52.190 --> 47:55.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you see something bigger, it's because we messed up and stuck two of them together.
[47:55.630 --> 47:56.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[47:57.150 --> 48:06.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you could do me a favor and tell me basically what the boxes do, like a red box does this, a silver box does that, because I've never been able to get a clear understanding of that.
[48:06.970 --> 48:09.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, well, pick a color first, and we'll start that way.
[48:10.050 --> 48:10.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, red.
[48:10.870 --> 48:17.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Red box is used for sending the tones that sound like quarters, nickels, and dimes.
[48:17.310 --> 48:20.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a very simple method of doing that.
[48:20.390 --> 48:21.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: You hold it up to the phone.
[48:21.470 --> 48:28.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: And when it asks, it has to be the kind of a phone call that asks for money, where it says, 25 cents, please, or, you know, in that particular tone.
[48:29.070 --> 48:31.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: It can't be a local call because they use a different system.
[48:31.810 --> 48:36.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: And also, New York Telephone uses a different system than AT&T, so the tolerance levels might be a little bit varied.
[48:37.430 --> 48:40.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: And basically, and, you know, I'm not advocating this at all.
[48:40.390 --> 48:41.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm just explaining how it works.
[48:42.070 --> 48:44.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: You would hit a button, and you'd hear five beeps.
[48:44.590 --> 48:45.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's a quarter.
[48:45.610 --> 48:46.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: They ask for $1.25.
[48:47.150 --> 48:48.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: You hit that button five times.
[48:48.490 --> 48:50.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Five times 25 is $1.25.
[48:51.330 --> 48:58.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's as simple as you can possibly get as far as, you know, faking out the phone company.
[48:58.490 --> 49:04.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Of course, they are working on fixing that on installing other kinds of ways of collecting coins.
[49:05.030 --> 49:07.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: But for now, it's open season in many places.
[49:08.530 --> 49:08.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[49:08.930 --> 49:09.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Silver.
[49:09.850 --> 49:14.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Silver box is nothing more than an extra row of keys on a Touch-Tone phone.
[49:14.270 --> 49:18.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Every Touch-Tone phone is capable of creating four additional tones.
[49:18.330 --> 49:21.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or actually, every tone is actually two tones.
[49:21.270 --> 49:22.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, the fourth column on the right.
[49:23.070 --> 49:25.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's known as A, B, C, and D.
[49:25.190 --> 49:32.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I should point out that it's worth it to get those four extra tones because they do things in some places.
[49:33.050 --> 49:36.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Some places, they actually can trigger other reactions.
[49:37.110 --> 49:42.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm speaking of the phone company and also voicemail systems and anything that requires Touch-Tones.
[49:42.450 --> 49:45.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: It certainly has the option of using those extra four keys.
[49:45.550 --> 49:51.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Those of you with modems, most cases, Hayes modem will dial A, B, C, D, just the same as any other number.
[49:51.790 --> 49:52.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Try it out.
[49:52.930 --> 49:56.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Try... the command would be A, T, D, T, and then you dial your number.
[49:56.370 --> 50:00.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: But instead of putting a number there, put the letter A, B, C, or D, and you'll hear those extra tones.
[50:00.850 --> 50:01.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, very good.
[50:02.090 --> 50:02.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Pink.
[50:03.430 --> 50:04.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Pink box?
[50:04.430 --> 50:06.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I came across that once or twice.
[50:07.250 --> 50:09.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I thought I came across it in an old tap publication.
[50:10.110 --> 50:13.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you know, people come up with all different colors of boxes, and sometimes they mean different things.
[50:13.930 --> 50:17.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not... I'm sure there is a pink box meeting someplace.
[50:17.150 --> 50:19.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just don't know what it is, and I don't want to say the wrong thing.
[50:19.670 --> 50:20.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: No problem.
[50:20.310 --> 50:20.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: How about black?
[50:21.210 --> 50:21.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: A black box?
[50:22.150 --> 50:25.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, those are... I don't think those will work virtually anywhere anymore.
[50:25.670 --> 50:30.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Basically, what that allowed you to do was fake out the phone company when somebody was calling you.
[50:30.290 --> 50:33.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Make the phone company think that your phone had never picked up.
[50:33.350 --> 50:33.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[50:33.750 --> 50:37.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: So the phone company would say, oh, the phone is still ringing, or the phone is busy, or whatever.
[50:37.510 --> 50:38.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: We can't charge for that.
[50:38.790 --> 50:45.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: In actuality, you would be preventing supervision from kicking in, and you'd be able to carry on a conversation with the person that called you.
[50:45.470 --> 50:49.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: It only worked on mechanical switches, such as crossbars, steps, that kind of thing.
[50:49.950 --> 50:54.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, you find me a mechanical switch around these days, and it would be a pretty rare thing.
[50:54.350 --> 50:58.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: There are a couple left, even in New York and Brooklyn and places like that.
[50:58.930 --> 51:01.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: There are a couple, but not very many.
[51:01.630 --> 51:01.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[51:02.190 --> 51:03.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is there one called orange?
[51:04.510 --> 51:05.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Orange box?
[51:06.890 --> 51:07.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sure there is.
[51:07.890 --> 51:09.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sure there is, but again, I don't know what that one is.
[51:09.690 --> 51:09.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[51:10.050 --> 51:11.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Have I omitted any colors?
[51:11.770 --> 51:12.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's see.
[51:13.470 --> 51:16.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Covered red, silver, black, orange, pink.
[51:17.230 --> 51:17.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I'm sure there...
[51:17.930 --> 51:19.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wait, I have to think about this.
[51:19.970 --> 51:20.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, green box.
[51:20.870 --> 51:23.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, there's a green box, and that sends...
[51:23.270 --> 51:25.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: It actually uses a few of...
[51:25.190 --> 51:26.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, you've left out a very major one, actually.
[51:26.650 --> 51:27.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: You've left out a blue box.
[51:27.710 --> 51:27.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[51:28.210 --> 51:44.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Blue box is a device that allows you, or did allow you, to make free phone calls by actually fooling the phone company into thinking that you were an operator and were able to process certain operator commands, such as calling inward operators, overseas,
[51:44.330 --> 51:47.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: international, direct, various things like that.
[51:47.770 --> 51:54.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: It allowed you, basically, to run around all over the place, internal and external, and it really...
[51:54.130 --> 52:00.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a thing that gives a phone freak the most power, the most sense of being a part of the network.
[52:00.890 --> 52:09.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: And a green box uses a couple of the blue box tones, and basically what a green box does is send signals down the line to say, return this guy's quarter.
[52:10.110 --> 52:13.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: You ever notice how an operator is able to, at will, return a quarter to you?
[52:13.870 --> 52:16.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, they send green box tones down the line to do that.
[52:16.570 --> 52:20.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: And also, there's a tone to collect coins, too.
[52:21.130 --> 52:21.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Mm-hmm.
[52:21.670 --> 52:24.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, you know, it's a good prank to pull on someone if they call you from a payphone.
[52:24.770 --> 52:26.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: You send the collect coin thing, and their quarter goes away.
[52:28.030 --> 52:29.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, only the people you don't like, okay.
[52:29.990 --> 52:33.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, and only the people that call you from payphones using coins.
[52:33.430 --> 52:34.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[52:34.770 --> 52:39.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, in the 2600 that I got, you guys were talking about your little wireless mic in there.
[52:39.430 --> 52:39.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[52:39.730 --> 52:46.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, is that something that, you know, you were on, like, a different frequency than something that I would go out and get in Ratshack or whatever, or what?
[52:47.130 --> 52:49.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think... I don't know what the exact frequency is.
[52:50.010 --> 52:53.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, actually, on that particular one, I think you're talking about the FM one.
[52:53.410 --> 52:54.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I would imagine.
[52:54.310 --> 52:55.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: In which case, it's a variable frequency.
[52:55.390 --> 52:56.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: It can go anywhere in the FM dial.
[52:57.310 --> 52:58.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, generally 88 to 108, right?
[52:58.890 --> 53:01.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right, and actually, I think it goes a little further than that, too.
[53:02.350 --> 53:09.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, as far as, you know, it's very non-powerful, so I don't think it's interfering with anything that should be interfered with.
[53:10.070 --> 53:10.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's in milliwatts, right?
[53:11.030 --> 53:12.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like about 500 mils, maybe?
[53:12.390 --> 53:13.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's not very powerful at all.
[53:14.310 --> 53:16.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you're lucky, you'll get a couple hundred feet on it.
[53:17.530 --> 53:23.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I don't think that's any different from something that would be, you know, that would be sold, except it's better.
[53:23.350 --> 53:25.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, it's more dependable and less consumer-oriented.
[53:26.310 --> 53:27.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, two other things.
[53:28.050 --> 53:30.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: One, as far as sneakers went, great movie.
[53:31.190 --> 53:32.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you buy the premise, it works.
[53:33.070 --> 53:36.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think there's a couple of things in there that weren't quite technically accurate.
[53:37.090 --> 53:39.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Personally, I don't think Dan Aykroyd should have had a part in the movie.
[53:39.730 --> 53:40.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it destroyed it.
[53:41.170 --> 53:47.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, he's kind of a strange person, but then there's, like, strange people in the hacker world, and I don't know.
[53:47.230 --> 53:48.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have mixed feelings about that myself.
[53:49.030 --> 53:50.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, you know...
[53:50.230 --> 53:51.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: He played a good paranoid, I thought.
[53:52.070 --> 53:55.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I just could think of other people who would be...
[53:55.850 --> 54:07.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: If he was supposed to be there because he, quote, had the best hands in the business, close quote, I could think of other people who could portray that as actors, and without having to get into that, you know, silliness that he likes to do.
[54:07.650 --> 54:07.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[54:08.810 --> 54:14.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, the other thing is, is it possible that you could give out that 800 number for CNA?
[54:14.790 --> 54:16.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, that automated voice?
[54:16.510 --> 54:27.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I'll tell you, I don't want to give that number out over the airwaves, but I will tell you, it's going to be printed in a particular hacker magazine in the next issue, which just went out to press today, and I'm sure you can figure out the rest.
[54:28.370 --> 54:28.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[54:28.870 --> 54:30.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: It will be printed in the upcoming issue, though.
[54:30.670 --> 54:30.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[54:31.110 --> 54:32.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: I hear what you're saying.
[54:32.230 --> 54:32.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[54:32.570 --> 54:33.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks so much for calling.
[54:33.430 --> 54:34.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you very much for taking my call.
[54:34.850 --> 54:35.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[54:35.250 --> 54:37.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's see if we can take some more calls before we run out of time.
[54:38.170 --> 54:38.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[54:39.270 --> 54:39.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hey, Emmanuel.
[54:40.150 --> 54:40.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: How you doing?
[54:40.830 --> 54:41.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: Fine.
[54:41.590 --> 54:50.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: I want to ask you, you said once that one can get around to call waiting by doing something different or whatever, instead of paying for it or...
[54:50.890 --> 54:51.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Get around...
[54:51.670 --> 54:55.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, you can have an extra line put in, an auxiliary line, is that what you mean?
[54:55.810 --> 54:56.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[54:56.310 --> 54:59.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: And have a free service, New York Telephone offers this for free, called Call Hunting.
[55:00.210 --> 55:03.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: It'll take you about 20 minutes to convince them that they offer it, but they do.
[55:03.430 --> 55:03.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Huh.
[55:03.770 --> 55:08.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: And Call Hunting basically says if line one is busy, jump to line two.
[55:08.570 --> 55:09.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: It only works in one direction.
[55:10.230 --> 55:12.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: The advantage of that is it's free, of course.
[55:13.110 --> 55:27.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: The second line, if you get what's known as an auxiliary line, it shows up on one phone bill, and the extra cost is about $10 a month, which, you know, if you get a couple of custom calling features, $10 a month is what you would pay for those, but in this particular case,
[55:27.230 --> 55:28.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: you get an extra phone line.
[55:28.430 --> 55:30.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can use it at the same time.
[55:30.130 --> 55:32.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can conference calls together.
[55:32.370 --> 55:35.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can do all kinds of things, depending on what kind of equipment you have.
[55:35.810 --> 55:36.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[55:36.010 --> 55:40.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's just that you have a lot more power over it, you know, a lot more flexibility.
[55:41.290 --> 55:51.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you know where one can get some kind of a catalog or if there's something like that of telephones, numbers of bulletin boards, they can call up different kinds, whatever?
[55:51.530 --> 55:57.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, jeez, there's bulletin board lists all over the place, there's some on the Internet.
[55:57.390 --> 56:00.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't have the exact address where to get listings of those things.
[56:01.290 --> 56:06.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: But if you connect to something, invariably that will lead you to a list of some sort.
[56:06.350 --> 56:06.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: I see.
[56:06.830 --> 56:09.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: And lists just keep generating more lists, you know.
[56:09.490 --> 56:09.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[56:10.110 --> 56:10.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: One more thing.
[56:10.850 --> 56:14.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you know if there's a way of checking your line for noise?
[56:14.170 --> 56:18.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Let's say if you want to do high-speed data transfer, you want as quiet as a line as possible.
[56:18.730 --> 56:20.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is there a way of checking it besides listening?
[56:20.830 --> 56:24.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, the best thing I can tell you is to call a number that's disconnected, okay?
[56:24.690 --> 56:25.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, those things that give you the recordings.
[56:26.130 --> 56:26.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Mm-hmm.
[56:26.850 --> 56:29.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: And wait until after the recording is finished, and you'll hear silence.
[56:30.570 --> 56:30.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Ah.
[56:30.950 --> 56:31.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: It doesn't hang up.
[56:32.690 --> 56:32.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hmm.
[56:32.830 --> 56:34.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's the best way I can think of.
[56:34.190 --> 56:34.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: I see.
[56:34.630 --> 56:34.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay?
[56:35.110 --> 56:35.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, thanks a lot.
[56:36.050 --> 56:36.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks for calling.
[56:36.630 --> 56:36.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bye.
[56:37.670 --> 56:38.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[56:39.630 --> 56:43.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, um, I've got a couple of quick things that I'd like to tell you about.
[56:43.870 --> 56:44.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, make it quick.
[56:44.710 --> 56:45.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're running out of time.
[56:45.710 --> 56:46.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, yeah.
[56:46.330 --> 56:47.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Number one, phone banking.
[56:47.570 --> 56:51.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, Citibank is, um, got a phone banking service.
[56:52.570 --> 56:57.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, um, if you want this service, all you have to do is call up yourself.
[56:58.650 --> 57:02.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, it's not a, it's not a, uh, in-person verification type of thing.
[57:03.130 --> 57:03.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[57:03.730 --> 57:07.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: And so anybody, presumably anybody, could call up claiming to be you.
[57:07.750 --> 57:09.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Don't you have to give a bank account number or something?
[57:09.570 --> 57:15.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, all you need is the, um, the bank card number and the last four digits of a person's social security number.
[57:15.330 --> 57:26.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, so if, uh, if you find a bank card in the street and you're somehow able to get the last four digits of the person's social security number, uh, you can, you can start, you don't have to prowl around ATMs anymore.
[57:26.530 --> 57:27.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can do it from the comfort of your own home.
[57:27.910 --> 57:38.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, um, every, every Citibank, um, customer is on that, is on that system, but you have to call up to actually, uh, activate it.
[57:38.550 --> 57:38.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[57:39.390 --> 57:45.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you can, and the only way that you can get off that system is to close out your, uh, your bank account with Citibank.
[57:45.990 --> 57:49.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that might be something that a lot of people are considering now that you've, you've told us this.
[57:50.230 --> 57:54.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, another thing is, uh, you mentioned that there's going to be caller ID in, uh, November.
[57:54.510 --> 57:54.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[57:55.390 --> 58:02.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, New York Telephone is offering this, um, uh, call restrict services, star 67.
[58:03.270 --> 58:03.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[58:03.890 --> 58:09.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, um, they say that, uh, there's two options that they, they, they claim is possible.
[58:10.130 --> 58:13.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: One is all call block and the other is...
[58:13.090 --> 58:13.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Per call block.
[58:13.930 --> 58:14.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[58:14.330 --> 58:16.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's a pretty standard, uh, feature.
[58:16.310 --> 58:17.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Unfortunately, we're out of time.
[58:17.750 --> 58:23.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, uh, we're going to get into that in weeks to come as caller ID becomes a much more pressing issue in New York.
[58:28.540 --> 58:30.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I want to thank everybody who called in.
[58:30.180 --> 58:31.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sorry to those we didn't get to.
[58:31.300 --> 58:32.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll try it again next week.
[58:34.440 --> 58:36.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: Stay tuned for the personal computer show.
[58:36.740 --> 58:37.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[58:37.780 --> 58:39.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's been a thrill and a pleasure as always.
[58:40.400 --> 58:42.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Remember to keep asking questions.
[58:42.340 --> 58:43.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Keep experimenting.
[58:43.700 --> 58:44.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Don't let anybody scare you.
[58:45.160 --> 58:45.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: See you next week.
[58:46.840 --> 58:49.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now I can't make a call Long
[58:54.790 --> 59:00.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: for the best, expect the worst I hope that's understood But make me go!