on Mars with Richard C. Hoagland.
Is there life there?
Has there been life there?
Is there life now?
Don't know.
Are we in contact?
Will we find out?
October 28th or 29th.
3.30 a.m. till 6 a.m.
Whichever way you want to look at it.
Mars.
Join us.
So what we must be aware of with Mars
that there may be no life on the surface
in the places we look,
but there may be life somewhere else.
Stand by.
You're on the air.
Well, let's see.
My guess is that
Pineapple is more macho than a knife.
Correcto.
Pineapple es más macho que knife.
La segunda pregunta.
¿Qué es más macho?
¿Lightbulb o scuba?
Lightbulb.
No.
Lo siento.
Scuba es más macho que lightbulb.
Gracias and we'll be back in un momento.
Carrier wave.
Extremely emotional, inexpensive,
and multicultural live radio with
Sidney Smith.
Alternate Sunday nights, Monday mornings
from 1 to 3 a.m.
I'll be seeing you, won't I?
And it's 9 o'clock on a Wednesday night.
Time for Off the Hook.
Off the Hook.
Off the Hook.
Off the Hook.
There's some people that can recognize
those tones by ear, you know?
They can tell...
I think we actually have one of those people
in the studio here.
You both can recognize touch tones by...
I don't know how people out there can do that,
but it's a special skill.
You have to wear headphones now.
I'm going to test you.
Yeah.
We've got a couple of world-renowned hackers
here that are going to tell me
what key I am now hitting.
Okay?
And they cannot see this key.
Trust me.
They cannot see this key.
And you might wish to test your skill here as well
to see if you actually have the ability
to tell one touch tone from another.
It might seem like a big waste of time,
but it actually comes in handy quite a bit.
Here comes the tone.
That was a number sign, right?
That's correct.
It was the pound sign.
All right.
That's very good.
So you're one for one.
We're going to go until you mess up.
Let's try this key over here.
Is it a 4 or a 7?
Well, you have to make up your mind.
Oh.
7?
Well, no.
It was a 4.
You were right the first time.
We'll give you one more.
One more.
And then we'll stop.
1.
Yeah.
I did say we'd give you one more,
and we did.
All right.
That's amazing that you have that ability.
Is it something that you just developed
or something that you're born with?
Well, I used to be much, much better at it.
I haven't had much opportunity to brush up.
But it's usually fairly simple.
That's a bit too fast.
If a number just went by,
you'd be able to immediately tell what number it was.
It just went by.
Maybe on a really good day.
We'd be able to tell at least what column each digit was in.
That's a handy thing to know.
If a number goes whipping by,
and you don't know what it is,
it can be very handy.
Very handy indeed.
A couple of things regarding number identification.
There's a number that we've given out for many years
that tells people what their phone number is.
It could be 9-5-8.
That's where you usually get your phone number.
This works in New Jersey as well as New York.
I tested it myself over there.
Now there's 5-1-1,
which also does the same thing for some reason
in a different voice,
but usually gives you the exact same number.
That's a little bit of news there
that some people might find fascinating.
Try it out.
5-1-1 tends to work in most places these days.
Also, in many places,
before it gives you your phone number,
I would demonstrate it here,
except for some reason it doesn't.
5-5-8 doesn't work from here.
But for some reason,
you get a little touch tone before.
I don't suppose you know what touch tone that is.
Yes, it's the star.
The star.
Okay, so you'll hear this.
You'll hear that,
and then you'll hear your phone number given out.
It would be like 2-7-9-3-4-0-0.
That's our phone number.
You would hear a computer say that.
Now, if you hit a certain touch tone
or any touch tone when you hear it...
No, if you hit the number sign in response to the star
before it starts reading the digits,
then it will proceed to play you your phone number in touch tone.
I see.
So, if I was to dial 9-5-8 from here,
or 5-1-1 from here,
and I heard...
And then I responded by hitting immediately,
I would suddenly hear...
That's correct.
Okay, which is 2-7-9-3-4-0-0.
That's our phone number, by the way,
2-1-2-2-7-9-3-4-0-0.
We've been talking about caller ID over the past few weeks,
and we're going to continue talking about that,
as it is probably the biggest thing to happen
in telecommunications in this area in many, many years.
It's going to affect the way everybody makes phone calls,
everybody receives phone calls.
Whether or not you get anything,
you know, if you get a caller ID box or whatnot,
your phone calls are going to be different.
People will know what your phone number is
unless you take steps to prevent that.
And that's what we're here to explain
and give advice where we can.
I got a caller ID box this past week.
I actually went out and got one.
Rather cheap, and, you know, as far as I know, it works.
But the thing is, where I am does not yet have the service,
and I have not been able to find any place in my area that does have it.
I've been plugging it in, and about the best it can do
is tell me that the phone is ringing,
but it can't actually tell me that a particular number is calling.
Supposedly, we'll be able to do that soon,
and I'm told that some areas around here,
not counting New Jersey, because we all know New Jersey has it,
but some 9X areas are actually using it.
So someone mentioned Ozone Park, I believe.
Was that the...?
Ozone? No.
I know Westchester and surrounding areas, I would guess,
have it, especially Poughkeepsie,
because they were the first people to have the PhoneSmart.
But we got a report of somebody getting something in the mail
saying that caller ID is not working.
No, they didn't say it was not working.
What it was was a list of prefixes of exchanges
that, as of November 1st or 2nd,
would encompass all the prefixes that now have this service,
all the PhoneSmart features, as well as all the prefixes.
If your number is in that prefix, you can now order caller ID.
They're not offering caller ID on a trial basis.
You'd have to pay $6.50 a month.
But for the three features, which are return call, repeat call,
and call trace, a rather useless feature,
those are being offered supposedly on a trial basis
until the end of this year,
after which you will be charged, per usage,
I believe it's $0.75 for the repeat and the return.
And you'll be charged an outrageous amount, yes, $0.75 for that.
And $1.50 for a call trace.
Yeah, that's kind of absurd.
And they don't even get back to you if you trace a call, either,
unless you persuade yourself.
That's rather useless, if you have a caller ID box.
Well, speaking personally here,
I think it's probably the sleaziest thing the phone company has come up with yet
to charge you to trace a harassing phone call.
It's something that they always did in the past,
or at least claimed to have done.
And now they're using it to make revenue.
They're using your fears to make revenue.
And they might charge by the kind of obscene call it is.
Something with specific X-rated words might be a premium rate
as far as tracing that kind of a call,
something that results in the conviction of somebody who's really dangerous.
And they might want to profit from that, too.
Who knows?
Who knows what goes on in those boardrooms?
But here's something that is not going well for the phone company.
It's another lawsuit filed against AT&T as well as the Harris Corporation.
A Mexican telecommunications company has said yesterday
it filed a suit seeking more than $490 million from AT&T and Harris,
accusing the American companies of selling it obsolete telecommunications equipment.
All our old equipment winds up going, apparently.
Grupo Sistemas Integrales de Telecomunicacion SA de CV,
or I prefer Grupo SIT, yes,
said AT&T and Harris fraudulently induced it to purchase telecommunications equipment
which was known to be obsolete, defective, and unsuitable
for use in the shared satellite communication system.
In addition to compensation for its losses,
Grupo SIT, which has since declared bankruptcy,
is seeking $75 million in punitive damages.
The suit was filed in federal district court in Manhattan.
AT&T has declined to comment on the suit,
and Harris officials were not immediately available to comment.
So that's something that's going on.
Also, a slightly ominous thing for the future.
The Health and Human Services Department has announced a plan
to set up a nationwide system of computerized billing
for Medicare and Medicaid patients to cut paperwork and speed payments.
The potential benefits of a virtually paper-free system
in terms of savings, convenience, and accuracy are very substantial,
the Health and Human Services Secretary, Lewis W. Sullivan, said today.
Major parts of the system could be ready in 15 months, he said.
Actually, he didn't say that today. He said that a few days ago.
Patients would carry a plastic health card,
much like a credit card, to be entered into a computer.
Through a network of computers,
a statement of the patient's benefits could be retrieved
and a bill submitted right away.
As an incentive for hospitals and doctors,
they would receive money in their accounts faster
because claims submitted electronically would be paid the same way.
The department gave no estimate of the cost of such a system.
It should be interesting when Medicare and Medicaid are completely computerized
and we'll see how effective it all is
and if there's any kind of foul-ups or blunders in the future.
If there are, of course, we'll be reporting them here.
Now we have to attempt to make a telephone call.
And, okay, I have to try to circumvent something by doing this.
Perhaps you could update us, FiberOptic,
on what's been going on this past week with the enhanced features
while I'm trying to dial this phone number here.
Okay.
You'll hear some noise in the background, so don't be upset by it.
Okay.
As far as I can tell, not much has changed as of yet,
other than most recently, as I said,
with the hello newsletter that's sent out with your phone bill,
certain people got a little notice listing prefixes
of the people who will be allowed to play with these new features
and who will have caller ID available.
Much to my disappointment, my prefix was not on this list
after I was previously told it was,
and the excuse they had was that they apparently mixed it up
with another prefix that does have the features.
So I'll have to go out of my way to keep us updated,
but I do plan on doing so in the coming weeks
as things change over to the signaling system 7 network
that ties the switching systems together.
A note that I had made last week was that there's one crossbar switch left
in the entire 718 area code at Trattman Avenue,
central office in the Bronx, and it's still there as of tonight.
So we wish it luck, and it shouldn't be around with us too much longer.
I hope this worked.
Okay, we got a ring.
I won't say what we have until we have it.
We're sorry.
It is not necessary to dial a long-distance company access code
for the number you have dialed.
Please hang up and try your call again.
Well, you see, he doesn't really know what he's talking about
because it is necessary to do that.
We're sorry.
I'm sure you're sorry.
Get off the line, please.
I'm going to have to do this off air because what I'm trying to do now
is circumvent a system that is trapping me here.
So if you could possibly just go on in a little bit more detail,
I'll be right back.
What I'm getting here, we're getting Bernie S. in Philadelphia.
He's a 2600 staff writer.
He's got some more information on these features that are being offered
by the phone company and something you may not have thought of,
something that is rather unique.
And he is wandering around somewhere in Philadelphia.
We're calling him on his cellular phone.
So God knows where he is or what he is doing right now,
but we're going to interrupt him and find out just what's going on.
But please continue while I try to find him.
Sure.
Well, as I was saying, anyways,
yeah, that was the last crossbar in Trapman Avenue soon to be.
I'm sorry about that noise.
What's that? No problem.
Oh, now my beeper's going.
You know, this is terrible, all this confusion.
Boy.
Okay, you know, it's funny because he's beeping me with his number,
and that's what I'm trying to reach right now.
It's a bit of a coincidence there.
All right, just continue.
We're falling apart here.
At least this week our phones are working.
People can call us at 212-279-3400 and talk for longer than a second.
Last week we had a bit of a problem with that
because people weren't able to talk to us at all.
So we should, you know, everyone concentrate out there,
and I think we'll have him on the line within a minute.
Go ahead.
Keep going? Okay.
Let's see.
Some statistics.
There are 24 switches in Queens.
Ten of those 24 are already cut over to the new signaling system
to provide these new features.
Out of the total, out of all 24, 20 of them are digital,
and only four are analog switches.
Just something to note.
And when you compare that with Brooklyn, it's a lot better.
There are 33 switches in Brooklyn.
20 out of those 33 are digital.
Actually, sorry about that.
20 are already cut over to the new system.
And practically all of those 20 are already cut over.
As far as I can tell, it appears that they are.
Oh, there's one.
It's Troy Avenue was soon to be cut over.
So I believe 19 out of the 20 digital switches in Brooklyn are already on the new system.
Hello?
Okay, I think we found Bernie S.
You found him?
This is Bernie S. in Philadelphia?
Yes.
All right, so Emanuel Goldstein here with FiberOptic.
How are you doing?
And friends, you're live on the air.
And you're on your cellular phone somewhere in Philadelphia, is that right?
Yeah.
Hi, Emanuel.
Hi, Fiber.
Hi there.
Where exactly are you now?
Not exactly, but.
Oh, I'm actually in suburban Philadelphia outside of Center City in a large Pathmark supermarket.
You're inside the supermarket right now?
I'm in the produce section at the moment.
And to most people, it would look like you're just talking to yourself.
Probably.
I'm getting some strange stares.
Well, you don't need a cellular phone to be looked at suspiciously, as anybody that's met Bernie S. would know.
Well, you have something to share with us tonight.
We're talking about caller ID and the new custom features that are coming to New York.
You've had them for quite some time, though, in Pennsylvania.
Is that right?
We've had many other custom calling or class features here in Pennsylvania, Philadelphia.
But we're not graced with the misfortune of having caller ID yet.
You still don't have caller ID?
We do not have caller ID.
There's a Pennsylvania wiretapping law, which evidently some of its clauses makes caller ID illegal in this state.
Bella Pennsylvania and their parent company, Bell Atlantic, have been trying to get that overruled for the past two years.
But they've so far been unsuccessful.
So caller ID is still illegal in Pennsylvania.
Just over the river here in south New Jersey, it is legal.
But it doesn't exist in Pennsylvania yet.
I see.
You, I think, have different features than us, or are they exactly the same, as far as you can tell?
Different from what?
From what they're introducing in New York.
Do you have anything that's at all different?
We have something, which you may have there, which they just instituted here called Ultra Forward, which is remote call forwarding.
You can, from anywhere in the world, you can have calls to your home number forwarded to anywhere else in the world.
And you can change that number to which they're forwarded from anywhere in the world.
Anywhere in the world?
Yes.
According to Bell Atlantic, who I spoke to last week, you can program international numbers.
Okay, how exactly would this work then?
Let's say we're here now and we want to program your phone.
Excuse me?
I'm sorry?
We were here right now in New York and we wanted to program your phone in Philadelphia to forward to, say, Thailand or something like that.
Okay.
You would have to dial a special number, a special local Philadelphia number that Bell of Pennsylvania has set up for this purpose.
Is it the same number for everybody?
Same number for everyone.
Well, are you at liberty to give it out then?
I don't have it now.
Okay.
Because I don't have that service.
I haven't subscribed to it.
The reason I haven't subscribed to it is that there is only a four-digit security code they use on this feature,
which wouldn't be very hard for someone to guess after a short period of time.
So basically it asks you to enter your phone number and then a four-digit security number.
That's right, only four digits.
And you cannot change it at will.
You have to call them and they want to charge you $5 every time you want to change it.
How about that?
And is there some kind of a default number that it sets to or is it based on your phone bill?
There may be some algorithm they're using to come up with a four-digit code depending on your number.
But as far as I know, it's random.
I see.
All right.
Well, we'll try and get that number then and experiment with it a little bit.
Yeah.
So at that point, then, you would just enter your phone number that you wanted to be forwarded to
and it would take effect then, I suppose.
That's right.
It sounds kind of like AT&T's EasyReach service where you have an 0700 number,
except in their case it's a five-digit code that you enter.
Not unlike EasyReach.
I see.
Can you program it to go to 900 numbers and nasty things like that?
I don't know.
I'm standing under a fluorescent light here.
I should move over here towards the bananas.
Yeah.
I haven't tried that because I don't have the service, but that would be an interesting experiment.
My guess is you might be able to,
but they may have it locked out as they might have 976 numbers unlocked.
Are you having trouble hearing me?
I only had a little burst of static there, but that's probably because you're over by the bananas.
Okay.
Now I'm heading over towards the tomatoes.
Maybe that will be better.
It should be.
Historically, it has been.
Tomatoes probably generate less interference than bananas.
That's true.
Now, you are in a path, Mark, near Philadelphia.
That's right.
On your cellular phone.
Okay.
Just to update that for people that might not understand what we're talking about.
Now, the main crux of what it is that you're here to talk about tonight
concerns a feature that is slowly being introduced here, I believe a combination of features,
call return and repeat call or something like that?
Oh, yes.
All right.
Explain it from ground zero.
Well, down here it's commonly referred to as star 69 or return call,
and I'm sure we've all experienced this situation where you can't get to the phone in time
because you're in the bathroom or in the shower or whatever,
and you just pick the phone up after the last ring and they've hung up.
Or someone just calls and says something rude and hangs up on you.
In either case, now with this return call feature,
you can pick up the phone and dial star 69 after the dial tone,
and your phone will call back whoever called you last.
And it's a 50-cent charge for this service.
You can't find out the identity of the person that you're calling
unless they decide to tell you and be honest about it, but you will call that person back.
I found out recently, and I ended up writing a letter
to the Pennsylvania Public Utilities Commission about this
because I thought it was very unfair.
Let me walk over here towards the lemons and oranges, getting more interference.
Okay, pineapples.
Yeah, you're breaking up a bit.
Can you hear me now?
Yeah, we can hear you fine.
Okay, I'm over by the pineapples right now.
But you're spending a lot of time in the food section.
Evidently, you're charging 50 cents when you dial star 69,
but if you choose, if you dial star 69 and the number that just called you recently is busy,
you'll get a recording saying the number you've called is busy.
Please hang up, and then in the next 30 minutes, with this, hold on here.
We're getting static on our end now.
I'm trying to find a clear area.
I'll have to move out towards the front of the store where there are windows.
As I was saying, if the number you call is busy using this return call feature,
you get a recording from the phone company saying the number is busy,
and the phone company will call you back automatically,
the switch will call you back automatically after this person gets off the phone.
And then both your phones will ring simultaneously, and you'll be connected.
At that point, if you don't want this automatic call back or automatic return call to happen,
you can hang up, pick up the phone, and dial star 89, which will cancel the return call.
But according to some research I've done,
you're still billed 50 cents whether you decide to accept or reject this return call,
and I thought that was rather unfair.
And the analogy I used when I wrote the Pennsylvania Public Utilities Commission was that
if you call a regular phone number that's, say, within your area code
but is long-distance, or a long-distance number for that matter,
and you get a busy signal, you're not charged for that because no call has been completed,
no service has been provided, and therefore no charge should apply.
And I used the same analogy in making my case with the PUC with this return call.
If you cancel that, if you're getting a recording saying the number is busy,
it's just like getting a busy signal as far as I'm concerned,
and I shouldn't have to pay 50 cents for finding out that the person I called is busy.
So it's in the courts, I guess, or it's in the works because it hasn't reached the court stage yet.
And I've gotten two confirmation calls from Bella, Pennsylvania,
saying that they're aware of this and they're very concerned,
and they've offered to give me a discount on my telephone bill for all the return calls that I've made,
but I told them it was the principle of the thing that I was more concerned about.
So we'll see where it goes.
Well, that's interesting.
Basically, you get charged for Star 69 call return even if the other line is busy.
If the other line is busy, and at that point if you choose to cancel the return call
and not have them call you back automatically after they get off the phone,
if you choose to cancel that and cancel the return call,
you're still charged 50 cents for the privilege of hearing a recording that their number is busy.
Now, is there a charge for repeat dialing?
Yes, there is.
You can have it either do it on a per-use basis,
or you can have it on a monthly arrangement here in the Philadelphia area with Bella, Pennsylvania.
But what I'm asking is when you Star 69 someone, when you return call them,
and then you automatically go into this repeat calling mode
where you keep trying to break through the busy signal, do they charge you on top of the call return?
No, no, that's part of the return call feature.
That's all included for the 50 cent charge.
The switch will automatically monitor the other party's line,
and when they get off the phone, when they hang up,
your phone will ring and their phone will ring at the same time,
and you'll be connected if you both lift your phone off the hook.
Okay, I want to try something here, and you might have some trouble hearing this
because you're down there in a path, Mark, in Philadelphia.
Okay, I'll listen carefully.
We're going to bring in a New York telephone operator here
and ask for some professional help to see if the same rules hold here.
Let's see if we can get our dial tone first of all.
Okay, we're going to dial an operator, and hopefully we'll get an operator right away.
We'll see.
No, the phone system has hung up on us again.
You know, I'm going to write a nasty memo about the BAI phone system.
I find that happening here.
Okay, now it won't break the dial tone.
Okay, let's try this one more time.
Let's try this one more time.
We always have these difficulties here.
All right.
We're trying to get an operator, and hopefully we'll get an operator.
No, it hung up again.
You know, I'm losing my patience here.
Okay, we're going to try this, and we're going to succeed.
That much I can promise.
What do I know?
Okay, it's all a question of timing.
See, there's a point where the phone hangs up, and you have to get it just right.
Okay, I think I got it.
There we go.
Can you telephone me in?
Yes, hello.
I have a question about call return.
Do you know anything about that?
I know a little bit about it.
Okay.
It's not available everywhere, but you want to know, in other words,
you want to return a call to someone who called you that you missed?
Actually, I'm calling on behalf of somebody else that does have the service,
and I just wanted to know what it costs to call returns on top of the cost of the call.
Oh, let's see.
I don't know if we actually have a figure here.
I know there is a price point per item if it's available, and you're not taking a package.
But if you have a package, then you're not charged per time that you use it.
Right.
Okay, I understand that.
Can you tell me if you call return somebody and their line is busy,
do you get charged for the call return then?
That I don't know.
The best thing to do is call your business office in the morning,
or the person's business office who has the line, that service on their line.
They open up at 8 o'clock in the morning.
Okay.
And can you give me a number for New York?
No, there are different numbers in New York.
Different numbers for everybody.
I'll connect you with information.
They can get the number for you.
That's okay.
I'll find out.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Note, she tried to connect me to something that would cost 45 cents.
But anyway, it's quite likely that they charge as well.
I mean, they don't have it here yet in New York City,
but they do have it out on the island and various other places.
Perhaps some of our callers in New Jersey can lend some expertise here.
It's also about Atlantic State.
One note of interest, Emanuel.
I got the same kind of runaround when I called the operator.
They weren't aware of whether there was a charge or not
if you decided to cancel the return call by dialing star 89.
And when I called my business office at their suggestion,
I was informed that you are not charged for the return call
if you cancel it by dialing star 89.
But a few days shortly thereafter,
I got a call back from the phone company to verify and clarify,
which were their words,
that I am indeed charged for this privilege of hearing a recording
that the number is busy.
And it doesn't say anything like that at the front of your phone book, I suppose.
Nothing whatsoever.
In fact, when they send you the instructions,
you can call the phone company.
They can send you written instructions on how to use this service,
and there's nothing in there about the fact that you're charged
if you decide to cancel the return call.
Okay.
That's yet another disturbing element to all these new features.
Bernie, yes, you're in a supermarket.
What part of the supermarket are you in right now?
Right now I'm over by the Pepsi machine and the ATM.
I see.
Or automatic teller machine.
Is that linked up to the whole Nice Serious Network,
or is it a different kind?
This is on the Plus Network.
I see.
Known as Mac Machine down here for Money Access Center.
Were you able to hear the operator all right?
Yes, I could hear very well.
Okay, well, maybe you can hear some of our callers then as they call in.
Maybe they have some questions for you.
Okay.
All right, our phone number, and we do have a couple of open lines.
It's 212-279-3400.
We've got Bernie S. on the line.
He's in a supermarket in Philadelphia,
and he's a self-proclaimed expert on telephones and other types of things as well,
including scanners too, I might add.
We have FiberOptic here in the studio,
who is a renowned hacker and expert on other things.
And we have a full switchboard.
So let's go to the phones and see who's out there.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Oh, I wonder if you could tell me what number you can dial
to ring an extension phone in your house,
a number to dial to ring back an extension.
Well, there's really two ways to do that.
One is the way the phone company doesn't want you to do it,
which it doesn't work as neatly, and that's just to ring back.
And the other, I think there's some kind of phone smart thing for that.
Is that right?
Well, if it's on the same phone line,
there's no way to make a specific phone ring without making them all ring.
Oh, I mean, you call from your extension,
and you call the other extension in the house, and it rings.
Well, then that's not an extension.
That's a whole separate phone line with another telephone number then.
No, it is an extension.
If you only have one phone line,
you want to talk to somebody at the other end of your house
and dial a certain number,
and you hang up, and then the extension will ring.
It almost sounds like a party line.
What state are you in?
I'm in New York City.
You're in New York City.
I don't know if anything like that is available here from the phone company.
I mean, there's ways to make your phone ring back,
but your phone would ring then as well.
Oh, that's all right.
Yeah, what is that?
That's what I'm looking for.
This isn't a new service.
This is something you've been able to do for years.
Well, actually, it's not a service at all,
if that's what you're talking about.
That's something that linemen use to test phones.
Right.
Yeah, that's it.
That's it.
In a lot of areas, 660 with the last four digits will do it.
In other words, it will get you a tone.
You flash it and hang up, and it will ring back.
But I know there's a lot of trouble in New York City getting that to work.
There's other ways, and a lot of people don't know what they are yet.
That's something that we are looking into because, you know, you're right.
It is a valuable service to have, to be able to just ring somebody in your house,
and you shouldn't have to pay for a phone call to do that, just to make a phone ring.
Well, actually, this is I'm asking on behalf of somebody outside New York,
so they might be able to do it.
How do you do it exactly?
As a note of interest to the caller and you, Emanuel, and Fiber,
in some areas in Pennsylvania, you can actually dial your own telephone number,
and you'll hear a recording saying you've called a number on your own line,
which doesn't really make sense, but that's what the recording says,
and it asks you to hang up, and your phone will ring, and it does.
It doesn't work in the Philadelphia area.
However, in the Wilkes-Barre-Scranton area, that works.
I don't know about New York, though.
Oh.
Down here, you just get a busy signal.
Yeah.
Well, what do you do with this 660?
You said the last four digits?
Well, in a lot of areas, an exchange such as 660 or something else,
usually ending in zero, followed by the last four digits of your phone number,
will get you either a dial tone or another steady tone,
and what you do is you hang up and pick up again,
and then the tone should change, and then you hang up one more time,
and that should make it ring back.
That's a very old system, though, and it doesn't work everywhere.
In fact, it doesn't work in a lot of places.
Okay, and that's the only one you know of at the moment?
Yeah.
For doing that.
That's the only one I know of.
If other people know, please call in.
660, plus last four digits of your number, hang up, pick up, hang up again, and it'll ring.
Yeah, give that a try.
Oh, thank you.
I appreciate it.
I've been looking for this for a long, long time.
Okay, well, let us know if you find it.
Oh, thank you.
Okay, take care.
Let me know if it works.
All right, thanks for calling.
Bye.
You know, actually, that recording that you mentioned,
I may very well know where to find that recording.
Let me see if I can actually get that recording for us.
I'm trying to get a line here.
You know, the problem is too many calls coming in.
I can't even get a free line.
Oh, just hang up.
Yeah, I'm going to have to do something drastic like that.
There's even calls down on the restricted lines where calls shouldn't be coming in.
I'm going to try one more time, then I'm just going to give up.
Okay, I give up.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yeah, how's it going?
I have information on those services from New York Telephone.
They call FoamSmart.
Okay.
They called a few weeks ago and have repeat dialing, call return, and call trace.
I'm in the 718 area code, and it mentions on the back of this all the whole bunch of them.
I'm a 9-6-8 myself.
It has asterisk 6-6.
Call return will be asterisk 6-9 and call trace will be asterisk 5-7.
And on my line, we're going to get a free service from November 2nd until, I think, December 31st.
And after that, if you want to keep it, let's see.
I'm going to read this.
It's $3 for a monthly subscription rate, repeat dialing, $3 for a call return.
Then there's a per-use rate.
If you don't want to get that, it's 75 cents per use for repeat dialing or call return
with a maximum of $6 for each service.
I'll be able to get to try this in a few days.
Okay.
Well, yeah, that's what's been introduced in many parts of the area already.
And like you said, you'll have a 60-day free trial to play around with that.
Although I am told that you've got to be careful with the call trace.
I'm told that people are being charged for that even though they're being told that it's a 60-day free trial.
So be careful.
That's true.
And your number, if you use that call return, your number may appear on the other person's phone bill.
It does warn you in this.
That's true.
Yeah, if they use call return on you, your number may show up there.
And also, it's interesting too.
I read this in the paper that the Public Service Commission has actually succeeded.
I think it's based on a lot of complaints that we've aired here and heard from listeners.
They succeeded in getting the phone company to change the way Star 69 works
so that there is a way to block so that you can call somebody and they cannot Star 69 you back.
Right, yeah.
That's a major step forward, I think.
That's pretty good, yeah.
They have another flyer we have for caller ID, which I think is kind of circumvents caller ID,
is you've got to put per-call restrict or all-call restrict.
It's coming to us.
And so I already put down all-call restrict.
Right, but the default, and we should warn people about this,
the default is that you won't have any restriction whatsoever
and that every time you make a phone call, your number will be transmitted.
So you have to be careful about that.
Unless everybody in New York City notifies the phone company
that they don't want their number transmitted every time they make a phone call,
the vast majority of people will have just that happen to them.
Right.
The majority probably won't even read their bills and know this.
That's right.
So hopefully they'll catch this radio show and learn that something like this needs to be done.
Exactly.
All right, thanks for calling.
Sure, take care.
Any comments from any of our guests here?
I have an interesting story about my experiences with the call trace here in the Philadelphia area.
I was receiving harassing telephone calls from an individual whose identity I did not know,
but I called the phone company to ask how to trace the calls
and was told indeed that I could dial star-57 after receiving any of these calls
and that the way it had to work was that I would have to successfully trace six calls to the same number
before the phone company would get involved and actually take notice and make a case out of it
and take action on the harassment issue.
Six calls at $1.50 each.
Well, down here it was $1.00 each.
They may have just raised it recently.
So you would have to, the person harassing you would have to be calling from the same number at all times
for this to work and Bella, Pennsylvania would not take any action at all
until you traced six calls to the same number.
So if they called from a different number every time,
you could conceivably be spending quite a lot of money for nothing.
After I successfully traced six calls to the same number,
of course the phone company didn't tell me the number that I was tracing to,
but they were able to verify they were coming from the same number,
they sent me a lengthy legal form for my signature,
which said among other things that after I signed it and sent it back to them
that I authorized them, the phone company, to contact the individual who was harassing me
and give them my name and telephone number
ostensibly so they could tell this person to stop calling me and this number.
And I didn't want my name given to whoever this person was.
Obviously they had my number, but I didn't know that they had my name
and I certainly didn't want them to have my name if they didn't have it already.
So I took issue with this with the phone company
and spoke to an attorney who advised me to cross out that section of the contract
and I did so.
And I also sent a letter explaining why I did that.
The contract also said that I would be required to press charges against this individual
if I signed this form.
And I wasn't sure who this person was or whether I wanted to get involved
in a court situation with this person.
So I crossed that part out of the contract as well.
And what happened after that?
Well, in the letter I stated that I wanted the phone company
to provide this telephone number of the person who was harassing me
to my local police department.
And that if I did not do that, I would turn the whole matter over
to the Pennsylvania Public Utilities Commission
and if I got no satisfaction there, I'd file a civil suit.
So I got quick action on that and about three or four days later
I got a phone call from my local police department.
And they were most concerned that I wanted to take this issue
or the law into my own hands and I assured them that was not the case.
I wanted to find out who it was so that if it was a reasonable person
I could just say, listen, stop calling me.
And they finally told me the number of the person who was calling me
and I knew who it was and that was that.
After their cover was blown, they stopped harassing me.
But it was quite an ordeal having to use this call trace feature
and it cost me several dollars and a lot of aggravation.
And I don't know if any of the listeners have experienced using the call trace feature
but it's far from a simple painless operation and it can be expensive as well.
Well, it's something that we have not yet really gotten accustomed to
but I'm sure in the months ahead we're going to be hearing all kinds of stories here.
All right, let's take another phone call.
Good evening.
Anybody there?
Hello?
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, is there anything currently right now in New York that one can use like that?
Like what?
Like call trace.
In what part of New York?
Queens.
In Queens, it's being introduced.
In fact, as early as November 2nd, Star 5-7 might work in your area.
Oh, great.
Yeah, and Star 5-7 is what reports the call.
If you dial Star 5-7 and if it's in operation,
you'll hear a recording saying the number you've activated call trace
and the number will be forwarded to your local telephone company
and to call the business office for more information.
Oh, great.
By the way, do any of you can suggest to me some kind of a fancy terminal program I can use?
A fancy terminal program?
Yeah, something elaborate or whatever.
I'd suggest calling the Personal Computer Show on that.
Okay.
All right, it follows us at 10 o'clock.
Okay, bye.
All right.
Let's go to another call.
Good evening.
Hi, Emanuel Goldstein.
How are you doing?
I'd like to talk about the Star 69 and some experiences I've had with it.
Sometimes I've called Star 69 and can't get the number.
It'll give you a recording saying the number you have reached,
like if you call a pay phone you'll get this recording
or if you call like a number that has called you through an operator or whatever.
It says the number you have reached cannot be dialed by this method.
Here's the best part.
If you know the number, please dial it yourself.
I mean, if I knew the number, I wouldn't be doing Star 69.
That's true.
I've heard that recording.
You heard that in Philadelphia?
No, I haven't.
The message isn't quite that insipid, but it doesn't surprise me.
Okay, now the thing you were talking about, about calling your own number
and getting your recording telling you to hang up and wait for it to ring,
that's usually on a party line because I remember I went up to school upstate
and we had party lines up there.
There are no party lines in New York City, in the New York City area actually.
But that's another point.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that
do you have to have the SS7 to have phone smarts?
Yes, you do.
The only way you'd get that recording, I'm sure you probably realize this,
but the person that had called you was not on the SS7 network.
This is a question.
Whenever I call a number that rings right away, it usually is hooked up to a DMS.
Or a 5ESS. It's just a very fast digital switch.
Okay, now see, I'm sort of confused.
I'm on a 5ESS and the number I'm calling is on a DMS.
Okay.
Before one of us got the SS7, it would take a few seconds for the phone to ring,
the person who had the DMS.
But now that one of us had the SS7, it rings right away.
Yes, see, the way it was probably signaled before is over analog trunk lines.
It would actually out-pulse your phone number in audible tones.
Now with SS7, it would be a few seconds faster at least
because it's actually signaling at 64,000 bits per second
over dedicated data links linking the switches together.
The funny thing is that when I call from the number with the DMS,
which is back to my number, it doesn't ring right away.
Do you know if he's on the network?
Like, are you able to return call him?
I don't know.
How far away are these two offices?
I've done star 69 once and got a reorder tone.
Oh, yeah.
All kinds of strange things are happening out there.
But how far away is the DMS from the number 5?
Manhattan to Queens.
Manhattan to Queens.
Anything is possible.
I mean, I've heard incredible delays going back and forth,
you know, one direction more so than another.
You know, when I called, you know, the Exchange Post 9901,
they've changed it in my area.
It now gives you some sort of a recording about dialing 911,
calling your business office.
The 718-225-9901 will give you some strange recording.
Okay, well, we'll check that out, and we'll have our prognosis on that one.
Okay.
Okay?
All right.
Thanks for calling.
Hi.
All right.
I don't suppose down there in Philadelphia there's any number you can call
to find out what kind of an office you're in, is there?
Yes.
In fact, I was surprised.
I've encountered several local TSPS-type operators
who were quite familiar with the type of switch I was on
and could tell me from what exchanges were connected to what types of switches.
Some of the operators were very ignorant of which switches were being used,
but others were very informed.
I was pleasantly surprised.
You're getting this information from a human,
but are there any recorded numbers that will give that to you?
None that I know of.
Okay.
Because here, if you dial an exchange followed by 9901,
very often if it's a digital exchange,
you'll get the type of switch it is and the location and the neighboring exchanges.
What is that number again?
Just the exchange followed by 9901.
Okay.
I haven't heard that yet.
All right.
Well, you know, it's probably something similar.
I know in California they begin with zero.
Yeah.
If I recall, I think in the Pennsylvania area they use 00 as opposed to 99 for test numbers.
So you probably want to scan out your home.
That would be 0001?
Yeah.
Perhaps.
Don't forget zero.
0000 and then all the way up to 0099.
Okay.
You'll probably find something interesting.
And I'm sure you'll report back to us.
Sure will.
What part of the supermarket are you in now?
I'm standing out in front in the parking lot right now
trying to get better reception for this regular phone.
Oh, so did you go through checkout?
Did you go through the checkout aisle?
I can.
Well, no.
I'm only a few seconds away from it.
Did you shoplift something?
How did you get out of the store?
You can walk in the entrance without the security guard looked at me rather suspiciously,
but I guess he assumed that...
So you didn't buy anything?
Okay.
You didn't buy anything then?
No, not at all.
Oh, okay.
Well, I thought you were buying something.
I thought you were doing your weekly shopping.
Well, I was going to do that, but I had one hand occupied with the phone.
How does this prevent you from doing any of that?
I mean, the purpose of a cellular phone is to live your life normally.
They're open 24 hours a day here,
and I don't get to hear this program in Philadelphia, unfortunately,
so I'm hanging on the line here.
That is unfortunate.
We're not like Howard Stern.
We can't just get stations to pick us up.
Well, maybe it's fortunate you're not like Howard Stern.
Well, yeah, there is the plus side to that as well, I guess.
Okay, this is off the hook.
Emmanuel Goldstein with FiberOptic and Bernie S. down in Philadelphia in the Pathmark.
We're talking about caller ID.
Actually, they call it call ID here in New York.
Is that what they call it in the parts of Pennsylvania that have it?
Actually, no part of Pennsylvania has it.
That's right.
No, they refer to it in their press releases as caller ID,
and then Bell Atlantic, who also operates in South Jersey,
refers to it as caller ID.
Right.
Okay, here it's call ID,
and that's what we're talking about tonight as well as the other intelligent features
that are being introduced slowly but surely.
Let's take another phone call.
Good evening.
Anybody there?
Okay, let's go to another one.
Good evening.
Hello?
Go ahead.
Hello?
Go ahead.
Oh, hi.
I was going to ask some questions about I was wondering where you got your handle
or what old handles you used.
Well, this isn't a show about me.
This is a show about technology, so we can't really discuss that kind of thing right now.
What about, well, do you mind if I ask where you got the handle for the,
I mean, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, the theme song for Off the Hook?
The theme song is a song by Big Audio Dynamite, actually by Don Letts.
So it's an actual song?
It's a piece of an actual song, yeah.
It's called Much Worse.
Oh, because my friend and I, we were debating over whether it was an actual song or not.
Oh, it's pretty actual, yeah, except for the off-the-hook tones.
That was added in courtesy of New York Telephone.
Oh, this is, I was wondering too, I'm listening to my radio now,
and as I ask you the questions, it comes on a little later.
How is that?
Well, because we're using something magical called digital delay.
Oh, I see.
Yes.
And is your radio near your phone?
No.
Well, if you were to hold your radio up to your phone, you would be able to see that.
Okay, any other questions?
Yeah, I was wondering, do you have any 800 numbers or 950 codes?
Yeah, we'll be giving them out after the show.
Thanks very much for calling.
I don't think I've ever heard such questions on the air before.
If you listen, we'll also be giving out some credit card numbers,
and we can all card ourselves some nice 486s and deliver them to our neighbors' homes
and pick them up while they're at work.
That's what hackers are all about, my friends.
Good evening.
Hello, go ahead.
Hello.
Yeah.
Hello.
How are you doing?
Hello, you got me?
Yes, I do.
What's the difference between pulse and tone on the telephone?
Is there any way that you can avoid having to pay for a touch-tone service
and still use a pulse phone?
Of course you can use a pulse phone.
It's the tone phone that they'll try to prevent you from using by making you think
that the tones are generated by the phone company
when in actuality they're generated by the phone.
I have gotten away with, in the past, just switching my phone to tone
as I gained access into a, like, perhaps a bank.
Oh, sure, that'll work fine.
In fact, on a lot of phones, if you hit the star key after you dial the number
and it dials in pulse, then you hit the star key,
it'll switch to tone from that point on.
That's if you have a tone pulse phone.
Okay, but I'm not paying for touch-tone service.
Yeah, well, you're allowed to blast those tones as much as you want.
I mean, they're your tones.
The only thing that the phone company does is program their computers
to ignore touch tones from you while you're placing a call.
Yeah, at the dial tone.
At the dial tone.
After your call is placed, your tones are as good as anyone else's.
Okay, so as soon as I gain access, though,
that's when I have to switch the little switch on the telephone?
Right, right.
Is it the second that I got through, or can I wait a few moments?
You can do it at any time you like.
On some phones, you might want to wait until the last number has been pulsed out.
It might confuse it otherwise.
But try this as well.
Try hitting the star button.
You might not have to throw that switch then.
If you hit the star button, then anything from that point on will be tone.
Okay, so dial the number, then hit the star button?
Hit the star immediately after you dial the number,
and on some phones, a lot of phones, actually, that will change the keypad to tone.
Otherwise, just throw the switch.
Oh, don't forget.
Howard Stern tonight on David Letterman.
Oh, boy.
That's always fun, isn't it?
Ba-ba-booey.
Ba-ba-booey.
I can't wait.
Yeah.
Even BAI listeners know about these things.
Wow.
Okay, let's take another phone call.
Good evening.
Good evening.
I'm calling from Rockland County, and I was getting harassing phone calls
in that somebody would call and then just breathe into the phone
with no answer, you know?
So I got every night around 7 o'clock.
So I said, now, stay on the line while the phone company checks your number,
and I never got any more calls.
Okay, so what is your complaint?
Well, I just wondered if anybody else had tried that
or whether it just happened to me.
Well, now, was the caller still connected when you talked to them?
Yeah.
He stayed connected, breathing all that time?
It was connected.
I don't know if it was a he or a she.
There was no answer, and you could hear sort of breathing,
and it wasn't breathing real loud like they were doing it on purpose.
And I'd say hello, hello two or three times, and then nobody was there.
So I decided to try this, what I did,
and whoever it was didn't continue to call me.
Well, there's a few things that might have happened.
You might have just decided not to.
It might have been a mistake,
or the phone company might actually have done something.
But usually that latter part happens very rarely.
Well, I didn't ask the phone company to do it.
I just kidded them.
I just said, hang on while the phone company traces your call, my call.
Well, you see, the one good thing about all of this, all this publicity,
is that nobody really knows if you can do it or not.
So if you say, oh, I have caller ID, a lot of people will think, hey,
I know what caller ID is.
That means they can trace my phone call.
So for those particular situations, things have gotten a little bit better.
But for the vast majority of people who just want to make a phone call
and not advertise their presence to everybody they call,
they have to be a lot more paranoid now,
and they have to be careful what they say on the phone,
and it's an unhealthy atmosphere.
Well, actually, quite some time ago,
before all of these fancy things were available, I think,
maybe I just wasn't aware of it because I wasn't listening to your program.
How long ago was this?
Oh, it was about a year and a half.
Yeah, well, word has been out for some time,
especially in other parts of the country.
New York is one of the last places, actually.
So it's possible that person might have known
or just thought that you had a way of tracing.
Okay, thank you.
Okay, thanks for calling.
And, yes, that's always a good way to get someone to stop harassing you
is you make them believe that you have the ability to do something that you don't.
In fact, that's a lot of what hacking is all about,
is making people believe that you're capable of things you're really not.
In Philadelphia, I found about three or four years ago,
before these custom calling features were put into place, like call trace,
that was the official method that the telephone company advised their customers to use.
I got an information sheet from the phone company several years ago
when I inquired about call tracing before the call trace feature was available.
And they said if you receive a harassing call,
to push the number 5 on your touch-tone phone while the harasser was on the other end,
push the number 5 and hold it in for two seconds,
and then say, trace, trace.
And supposedly that would scare off the harassing caller.
It, in effect, did nothing.
Do you have that in writing somewhere?
I thought it was an amusing information sheet that the phone company sent me to do this.
That's incredible that they would actually advise you to do something like that.
I have a copy of that somewhere.
Well, yeah, definitely send that over to us, because that's something that I'd certainly like to see.
We're out of time here.
We've been speaking to Bernie S. down in a supermarket in Philadelphia.
Are you outside in the parking lot now?
Yes, I am.
Okay, well, thanks very much for being with us tonight
and advising us on various things that we have to look forward to.
And stay out of trouble there, as far as, you know.
We always try.
Wandering around dark, deserted parking lots.
We've got fiber optic here.
And thanks for coming in and advising us on various things.
And I've been advised, for my safety, I should mention something that's coming up this Sunday.
There's a first Sunday brunch coming November 1st.
If you plan to attend, well, show up.
It's on 145 Avenue C at Bernard's French Cuisine.
That's 145 Avenue C and 9th Street.
It's a BAI type of a thing.
A lot of us BAI people will be there.
The number to call for more information is 212-614-9395.
And it's from 1130 a.m. to 1 p.m.
And I'm sure you'll hear a lot more about that in the days ahead.
And that's all the time that we have for tonight.
Thanks very much for listening.
We'll be back again next week for another edition of Off the Hook.
This is Emanuel Goldstein saying good night.
Stay tuned for The Personal Computer Show here on WBAI-New York.
I will not raise the taxes on a working man and woman in this country.
Read my lips.
No new taxes.
Read my lips.
No new taxes.
Read my lips.