Off The Hook - 1993-03-31

[00:04.650 --> 00:09.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: ...station WBAI in New York, where the time is just about 10 o'clock on a Wednesday night.
[00:10.050 --> 00:10.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Time for Off the Hook.
[00:16.930 --> 00:21.490]  [SPEAKER_17]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:22.310 --> 00:24.410]  [SPEAKER_17]: I cut myself while shaving.
[00:24.990 --> 00:26.910]  [SPEAKER_17]: Now I can't make a call.
[00:27.690 --> 00:29.670]  [SPEAKER_17]: It couldn't get much worse.
[00:30.250 --> 00:30.750]  I
[00:36.290 --> 00:37.610]  [SPEAKER_17]: hope that's understood.
[00:37.930 --> 00:38.630]  [SPEAKER_17]: One little bit more.
[01:17.190 --> 01:19.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: And special greetings to one and all.
[01:19.830 --> 01:20.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is Off the Hook.
[01:20.570 --> 01:29.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Emmanuel Goldstein here on the program that speaks about high technology and the advances and setbacks that we face each and every day.
[01:30.450 --> 01:35.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: We'll be taking your phone calls also at 212-279-3400.
[01:35.570 --> 01:43.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: We all have experiences with computers, telephones, answering machines, voicemail systems, you name it.
[01:43.650 --> 01:46.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: It affects us each and every day.
[01:46.710 --> 01:50.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: And sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad.
[01:50.630 --> 02:04.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're here to share the experiences, to hear some of your views on the matters at hand, and to take a look at some of the advances that might be made, and some of the things that might be bad for all of us.
[02:05.450 --> 02:12.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, let's take a look at a couple of the things that have been happening in the past week or so.
[02:12.070 --> 02:16.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, this might make some of you chortle, actually.
[02:17.110 --> 02:19.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Some of you that don't like Empire Blue Cross.
[02:19.650 --> 02:24.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: I know there's a lot of people out there that don't like Empire Blue Cross for very good reasons, too, I might add.
[02:24.470 --> 02:27.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: But this is a story that was making the rounds.
[02:27.710 --> 02:28.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was in the New York Times.
[02:29.490 --> 02:38.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield was forced to write off $50 million that had gone uncollected or unbilled because of computer problems dating back to the mid-70s.
[02:38.890 --> 02:42.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: And this is according to an internal report obtained by the Times.
[02:42.770 --> 02:43.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, get this.
[02:43.450 --> 02:49.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: One of the glitches involved a computer system that could not understand bills of $100,000 or more.
[02:49.770 --> 02:57.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, if you got, say, a charge of $103,000, the computer would interpret that as $3,000.
[02:58.110 --> 02:59.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: Not a very good way to run a business.
[02:59.590 --> 03:02.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that smaller amount was billed to the client.
[03:03.950 --> 03:06.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that happened 29 times.
[03:07.030 --> 03:09.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Cost Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield $3 million.
[03:10.670 --> 03:13.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: So think about that next time they raise the rates.
[03:15.110 --> 03:15.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[03:16.070 --> 03:19.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: We have something happening in Holland.
[03:19.230 --> 03:22.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is off the Risk's Digest and it's being passed around the network a bit.
[03:23.910 --> 03:28.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Something about a Dutch hacker that was caught doing something.
[03:28.270 --> 03:37.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, what we'll read you is the interpretation of Hans von Stavarin of Raoul University, I believe is how you pronounce that, in Amsterdam.
[03:38.110 --> 03:51.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: The so-called hacker, the 20-year-old Ronald O., whom we caught on one of our PCs doing things as yet unknown, will be in temporary custody, or whatever the correct English term for that is, for 30 more days.
[03:51.650 --> 03:54.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is to give the police more time to gather evidence.
[03:55.190 --> 03:58.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: I believe we call that unconstitutional, but that's just our takeover here.
[03:59.510 --> 04:05.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: According to the papers, forged credit cards were found while searching his home, and that also will not help his case.
[04:05.650 --> 04:11.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: He is supposedly unwilling to answer any questions at this point, but is charged with crimes that could send him to jail for a maximum of four years.
[04:12.670 --> 04:20.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Although I am definitely not suggesting he is a nice guy, somehow I have some difficulty connecting this nervous kid in our room with a sentence of four years.
[04:20.130 --> 04:28.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: I hope that being the first to be caught under the new law, and in the act to boot, is not going to give him too much extra attention from law officials.
[04:30.450 --> 04:32.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, of course we all know that's not true.
[04:33.310 --> 04:42.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Law officials are always trying to send the message to all those anonymous people out there, even though nobody knows what this person was doing, or who he is, or anything.
[04:43.610 --> 04:47.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: They'll be going for a stiff sentence, no doubt.
[04:49.690 --> 04:54.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's also a case in the United Kingdom, which is rather interesting, too.
[04:55.590 --> 05:00.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: This comes from Anthony Nags, also on the Risks Digest, and this is his interpretation of it.
[05:01.630 --> 05:06.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: It comes from various sources, including New Scientist, of March 27, 1993.
[05:08.290 --> 05:18.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: On June 26, 1991, British police arrested three men, who had been cooperating in hacking a number of university, government, and commercial computer systems across the world.
[05:18.970 --> 05:22.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Individually, they used the handles Gandalf, Wandai, and Lizard.
[05:23.090 --> 05:25.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Collectively, they called themselves the Eight-Legged Groove Machine.
[05:25.990 --> 05:30.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: And they signed their group, 8LGM, Eight Little Green Men.
[05:30.770 --> 05:43.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: They did not meet, they did not even know each other's real names and addresses, until they were introduced by the arresting officers, but discussed hacking passwords and vulnerable systems on bulletin boards and hacked systems.
[05:44.370 --> 05:50.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, two of them were charged with conspiracy to dishonestly obtain telecommunications services, having pleaded guilty.
[05:50.770 --> 05:52.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: They are waiting to be sentenced.
[05:53.510 --> 06:02.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: One other, an 18-year-old, was charged with two counts of conspiracy under the Computer Misuse Act, and one of conspiring to dishonestly obtain telecommunications services.
[06:03.050 --> 06:14.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, this person says, it is interesting that the Crown Prosecution Service chose to charge this latter person with conspiracy, rather than a simpler charge of unauthorized access to or modification of a computer system.
[06:14.630 --> 06:23.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: This decision was the foundation of the eventual acquittal, requiring the prosecution to demonstrate that he had a guilty mind at the time of the hacking.
[06:24.170 --> 06:25.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's an interesting way of looking at things.
[06:27.450 --> 06:38.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: In court, the defendant's lawyer claimed that the case was a show trial, and brought in a psychiatric expert who described the hacker as having a non-chemical dependence on using a computer.
[06:39.550 --> 06:44.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh boy, it is hard to see how a compulsion to use computers or even to hack can be adequate grounds for acquittal.
[06:44.890 --> 06:48.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Indeed, the judge quite clearly directed the jury to disregard this.
[06:49.470 --> 06:52.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Nevertheless, the jury returned not guilty verdicts on all charges.
[06:54.470 --> 07:00.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: It is impossible to know their reasoning, as it is a criminal offense to publish any details of the jury's deliberations.
[07:01.510 --> 07:07.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: Much of the press, including the New Scientist article, represent this as setting a legal precedent.
[07:08.130 --> 07:12.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: According to this contributor, this doesn't make sense, because nobody can say what the supposed precedent is.
[07:13.510 --> 07:18.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Secondly, only the ruling of a judge can do this, subject to appeal to a higher court.
[07:18.490 --> 07:23.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: In this case, we can do little but accept that our jury system has again demonstrated its unpredictability.
[07:23.610 --> 07:34.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, this is of little consolation to those institutions who suffered expensive tampering with their systems, and had to foot tens of thousands of pounds of phone bills due to the actions of these men.
[07:35.070 --> 07:37.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: These little green men, I guess, is the best way to describe them.
[07:38.030 --> 07:41.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, there's a couple of problems with that statement.
[07:41.670 --> 07:48.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: Also, there are analogies being posted all over the place saying, well, you know, how can you say that if hacking is some sort of a compulsion?
[07:48.170 --> 07:52.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, you could say a murderer is addicted to murdering, so therefore it's excusable?
[07:52.830 --> 07:55.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you know, it's just not the same thing.
[07:55.170 --> 07:57.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're talking about people playing with computers here.
[07:57.650 --> 08:01.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're not talking about people going out and willfully destroying things.
[08:01.170 --> 08:08.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, if you do have somebody that goes out and willfully destroys things, willfully steals things, and, you know, physical objects, that kind of thing, that's a totally different case.
[08:08.430 --> 08:13.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: And not very many people have a problem with that, but this is different.
[08:13.390 --> 08:16.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is something that is as yet undefined.
[08:16.310 --> 08:21.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is something that's not the same as murder, not the same as armed robbery.
[08:22.230 --> 08:24.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: The sooner we get that through our heads, the better.
[08:24.610 --> 08:42.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, something else that Computer Scientists for Social Responsibility, which is turning out to be probably the most important computer civil rights group around, they've gotten some more victories, I guess, for individuals in this day and age.
[08:42.770 --> 08:49.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: A federal court of appeals has ruled that Virginia's divulgence of social security numbers of registered voters violates the Constitution.
[08:50.250 --> 08:55.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: The court said that Virginia's registration scheme places an intolerable burden on the right to vote.
[08:57.350 --> 09:02.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: The result comes nearly two years after Mark Greidinger, a resident of Falmouth...
[09:02.570 --> 09:05.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: I swear to God, that's the name of the city.
[09:05.230 --> 09:06.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Falmouth, Virginia.
[09:06.750 --> 09:08.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's F-A-L-M-O-U-T-H.
[09:09.270 --> 09:09.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Falmouth, wow.
[09:10.570 --> 09:12.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: Falmouth, Virginia, first tried to register to vote.
[09:12.730 --> 09:23.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mr. Greidinger said that he found it nearly impossible to obtain a driver's license, open accounts with local utilities, or even rent a video without encountering demands for a social security number.
[09:24.130 --> 09:33.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mr. Greidinger told the New York Times this week that when the state of Virginia refused to register him as a voter unless he provided his social security number, he decided to take action.
[09:33.610 --> 09:38.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: He brought suit against the state and argued that Virginia should stop publishing the social security numbers of voters.
[09:39.650 --> 09:55.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, this week, a federal appeals court in Richmond, Virginia, ruled that the state's practice constituted a profound invasion of privacy and emphasized the agrariousness of the harm.
[09:55.350 --> 09:55.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, that's the word.
[09:56.090 --> 09:59.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: That could result from dissemination of an individual's social security number.
[09:59.850 --> 10:11.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility, known as CPSR, a national membership organization of professionals in the computing field joined with Mr. Greidinger in the effort to change the Virginia system.
[10:12.170 --> 10:14.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: CPSR, which had testified before the U.S.
[10:14.390 --> 10:23.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: Congress and the state legislature in Virginia about growing problems with the misuse of the social security number, provided both technical and legal support to Mr. Greidinger.
[10:23.570 --> 10:29.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: CPSR also worked with Paul Wolfson of the Public Citizen Litigation Group, who argued the case for Mr. Greidinger.
[10:29.730 --> 10:42.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: In an amicus brief filed with the court, CPSR noted the longstanding interest of the computing profession in the design of safe information systems and the particular concerns about the misuse of the social security number.
[10:42.690 --> 10:49.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: The CPSR brief traced the history of the social security number provisions in the 1974 Privacy Act.
[10:49.730 --> 11:00.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: It also described how the widespread use of these numbers had led to a proliferation of banking and credit crime and how these numbers are used to fraudulently obtain credit records and federal benefits.
[11:01.530 --> 11:12.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: CPSR argued that the privacy risk created by Virginia's collection and disclosure of social security numbers was unnecessary and that other procedures could address the state's concerns about records management.
[11:14.090 --> 11:21.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: This week, the Court of Appeals ruled that the state of Virginia must discontinue the publication of the social security numbers of registered voters.
[11:23.250 --> 11:38.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: The court noted that when Congress passed the Privacy Act of 1974 to restrict the use of the social security number, the misuse of the social security number known as SSN was one of the most serious manifestations of privacy concerns in the nation.
[11:38.790 --> 11:45.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: The court then said that since 1974, concerns about SSN confidentiality have become significantly more compelling.
[11:45.850 --> 11:59.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: For example, armed with one social security number, an unscrupulous individual could obtain a person's welfare benefits or social security benefits, order new checks at a new address, obtain credit cards, or even obtain the person's paycheck.
[12:00.770 --> 12:12.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: The court said that Virginia's voter registration scheme would compel a would-be voter in Virginia to consent to the possibility of a profound invasion of privacy when exercising the fundamental right to vote.
[12:12.930 --> 12:19.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: The court held that Virginia must either stop collecting the SSN or stop publicly disclosing it.
[12:21.970 --> 12:27.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's something that we all better keep an eye on.
[12:27.310 --> 12:29.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: When's the last time somebody asked you for your social security number?
[12:29.690 --> 12:31.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: It seems like it happens every single day.
[12:31.650 --> 12:34.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: You call the cable TV company, they want your social security number.
[12:35.750 --> 12:38.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: You buy something at 7-Eleven, they want your social security number.
[12:39.050 --> 12:40.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Radio Shack, they want your whole life history.
[12:42.850 --> 12:44.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can always give out fake numbers.
[12:44.550 --> 12:46.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, I don't think it's a crime to do that.
[12:47.590 --> 12:49.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: At least not in certain situations.
[12:50.130 --> 12:58.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Certainly if you're buying something in a commercial establishment, nobody has the right to ask you for your social security number unless they're the social security people.
[12:59.750 --> 13:08.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: And as certain courts have ruled, the Selective Service also has that right, which a lot of people still disagree with.
[13:08.150 --> 13:10.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, here's one for a bit of fun.
[13:10.550 --> 13:11.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: It comes out of Minnesota.
[13:11.970 --> 13:22.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: The majority leader of the Minnesota House of Representatives has just resigned amid disclosures that his son and his nephew obtained his access code for the state long-distance service.
[13:23.570 --> 13:24.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: No kidding around here.
[13:24.670 --> 13:30.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: The majority leader of the Minnesota House of Representatives resigned because his son and nephew were using his calling card.
[13:30.650 --> 13:37.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: The service involves calling an 800 number and entering a personal code for making long-distance calls related to state business.
[13:38.270 --> 13:46.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Although this son and nephew reportedly made less than $50 worth of calls themselves, they went and they shared the codes with their friends.
[13:46.870 --> 13:52.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: The total bill is now estimated at around $85,000.
[13:54.250 --> 13:58.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: And for now, taxpayers appear to be liable for all of that.
[13:59.890 --> 14:00.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[14:02.070 --> 14:04.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: A couple of amusing items to finish off with.
[14:05.170 --> 14:07.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Again, our phone number is 279-3400.
[14:08.150 --> 14:12.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you have stories or questions of your own, to call in to us.
[14:13.130 --> 14:17.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, we've talked about cellular phone calls and how it's illegal to listen.
[14:19.010 --> 14:20.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: But it's not illegal to talk about.
[14:20.630 --> 14:21.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not illegal to buy scanners.
[14:21.870 --> 14:24.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not illegal to own scanners.
[14:24.190 --> 14:29.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Although, they're trying to make it illegal to even own devices that can pick up cellular phone calls.
[14:30.110 --> 14:32.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: In England, it's even worse than this.
[14:32.470 --> 14:34.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can't listen to the police.
[14:34.650 --> 14:35.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's illegal.
[14:36.130 --> 14:36.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's right.
[14:36.850 --> 14:43.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, officers in Warrington, Cheshire, were fed up with people listening in on their messages.
[14:44.170 --> 14:45.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: On the scanners.
[14:45.830 --> 14:48.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, they came up with a little fake broadcast.
[14:48.350 --> 14:52.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: They said that a flying saucer had crash-landed in a field.
[14:52.950 --> 14:55.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Then they went and they gave details of where to find it.
[14:57.650 --> 14:58.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's right.
[14:58.950 --> 15:05.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Radio messages about a huge, glowing spacecraft were broadcast with the warning, Do not approach.
[15:05.530 --> 15:07.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: It may be radioactive.
[15:07.850 --> 15:11.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: The warning was followed by directions to the field in Appleton.
[15:11.470 --> 15:15.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: The eavesdroppers arrived within minutes, expecting to see little green men.
[15:16.810 --> 15:19.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: Not the eight little green men we mentioned before.
[15:20.190 --> 15:21.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: They were arrested instead.
[15:22.670 --> 15:27.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: Police said that five people had been reported to the Crown Prosecution Service for telecommunications offenses.
[15:27.610 --> 15:35.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: Scanning devices that can pick up police radio messages are widely available, but using them to listen to police transmissions is an offense.
[15:37.790 --> 15:40.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not happening here yet, but it could happen.
[15:40.430 --> 15:43.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Where we listen to the police, and we get arrested for listening.
[15:46.160 --> 15:50.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, here's a hilarious story that concerns the Internet.
[15:51.360 --> 15:55.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Something that I think we'll be seeing more of in the years ahead.
[15:55.620 --> 15:57.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: This comes from Joe Dellinger.
[15:57.280 --> 15:58.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is a submission to the Risk Digest.
[15:58.980 --> 16:08.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Joe is in Hawaii, and he writes, Several months ago we started noticing that now and again the network connection to the mainland would become very, very slow.
[16:09.860 --> 16:15.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: This would continue for 10 to 15 minutes or so, and all would suddenly be well again.
[16:16.720 --> 16:22.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: A while after this started happening, a co-worker of mine complained to me that the connection to the mainland never worked anymore.
[16:22.860 --> 16:31.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: It seems that he had some Fortran source that he needed to copy to a machine on the mainland, but he never could because the network wouldn't stay up long enough for the FTP to complete.
[16:32.120 --> 16:40.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, it turned out that the network outages happened whenever he attempted to FTP that particular Fortran source file to the mainland.
[16:40.820 --> 16:42.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: We next tried compressing the file.
[16:42.800 --> 16:48.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: It copied just fine, but unfortunately the machine on the mainland had no uncompressed program, so it was still no-go.
[16:49.120 --> 16:55.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Finally, we split his Fortran program up into very small pieces, and we sent them one at a time.
[16:56.140 --> 17:04.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: And most of the pieces copied without any trouble, but a few would either not go through it all, or only go after many, many retries.
[17:05.900 --> 17:09.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Examining the troublesome pieces, we found they all had one thing in common.
[17:09.440 --> 17:18.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: They contained comment blocks that began and ended with lines consisting of nothing but capital C's, which is his preferred Fortran commenting style.
[17:18.960 --> 17:23.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: At this point, we started sending email to the network gurus on the mainland asking for help.
[17:23.100 --> 17:30.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course, they wanted to see an example of our un-FTP-able files, so we mailed some to them, but our mail never got there.
[17:31.360 --> 17:37.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Finally, we got the bright idea of simply describing what the unsendable files look like.
[17:37.180 --> 17:38.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that worked.
[17:40.640 --> 17:42.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Eventually, we were able to piece together this story.
[17:42.920 --> 17:47.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: A new gateway had recently been installed between our part of campus and the connection to the mainland.
[17:47.340 --> 17:52.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: This gateway had great difficulty transmitting packets that contained repeated blocks of capital C's.
[17:53.100 --> 18:00.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Just a few such packets would occupy all of its energies and prevent most everything else from getting through.
[18:00.580 --> 18:05.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: At this point, we complained to the gateway manufacturer and were told, Oh, yes, you've hit the repeated C's bug.
[18:06.420 --> 18:07.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: We know about that already.
[18:09.500 --> 18:13.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Eventually, we solved the problem by buying new gateways from another manufacturer.
[18:16.620 --> 18:22.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's that kind of Sherlock Holmes type of investigation that's something we ought to get used to.
[18:23.260 --> 18:27.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: The most ridiculous things you can possibly imagine, and that's the root of it all.
[18:28.160 --> 18:29.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, today's newspaper.
[18:29.540 --> 18:30.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: You read this one?
[18:30.500 --> 18:37.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: You got the FBI seizing a printer that was tied to that letter sent to the New York Times about the World Trade Center bombing.
[18:37.980 --> 18:39.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is interesting.
[18:39.660 --> 18:51.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Federal investigators seized a computer printer yesterday from the office of a chemical engineer, who the authorities say is tied to a letter claiming responsibility for the World Trade Center bombing, the suspect's lawyer said.
[18:52.000 --> 19:02.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: But the lawyer, Leonard Weinglass, said the printer taken from the New Jersey office of his client, Nadal Ayad, was of a type which obviously did not print this letter.
[19:04.220 --> 19:19.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity said yesterday that computer evidence seized in earlier searches strongly tied Mr. Ayad to the one-page letter, which demanded that the United States cease aid to Israel and said that 150 suicide soldiers were ready to attack military,
[19:20.220 --> 19:21.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: civilian, and nuclear targets.
[19:22.340 --> 19:27.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: They declined, however, to give details of the proof, and many officials refused to discuss the letter.
[19:28.000 --> 19:39.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mr. Weinglass said the equipment seized yesterday was a dot-matrix printer taken from Mr. Ayad's office at Allied Signal Incorporated, which is a Morristown-based conglomerate that makes chemicals and services the automotive industry.
[19:40.340 --> 19:45.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: The various typefaces of the letter suggested a more sophisticated printer, he said.
[19:45.380 --> 19:47.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: But we can cut through the muck on this one.
[19:48.000 --> 19:54.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you saw a copy of the letter, and I happen to see a copy of the letter printed, I believe it was in the Times, it was obviously done on a laser printer.
[19:54.420 --> 19:58.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, it's pretty obvious that this was not done on a dot-matrix printer.
[19:59.680 --> 20:02.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's really, you know, no way you could mistake that.
[20:02.960 --> 20:09.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: So I don't quite understand why they would, unless they're looking for other evidence, but that is not the printer that printed that letter.
[20:09.200 --> 20:11.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: If that's what they're saying, they are completely wrong.
[20:12.480 --> 20:24.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Dot-matrix prints little dots, and looks a lot more like something a computer would generate, whereas a laser printer looks like something a typesetter would generate, something a lot more stylish and pretty-looking.
[20:26.040 --> 20:30.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: So that's something where we can have the wool pulled over our eyes a little bit, I suppose.
[20:32.380 --> 20:33.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Phiber Optik stepped in.
[20:33.120 --> 20:33.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: How are you doing?
[20:33.860 --> 20:34.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hi.
[20:34.300 --> 20:34.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: How are you?
[20:34.680 --> 20:36.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Any comments on the new laser printer scandal?
[20:37.780 --> 20:45.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, provided that the dot-matrix printer doesn't have near-letter quality, which would probably be hard to tell if we were looking at a photocopy in the paper.
[20:45.040 --> 20:52.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I looked at the newspaper, and I've never seen a near-letter quality printer come up with a variety of fonts like that.
[20:53.400 --> 20:54.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: It looked too good.
[20:54.240 --> 21:02.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: If I had to take a wild guess, since they said that they found references to whatever the Liberation Organization or something...
[21:02.700 --> 21:03.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, whatever they are.
[21:03.740 --> 21:06.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: ...mentioned in the letter, they found references to it on his computer.
[21:06.440 --> 21:09.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: If I had to take a wild guess, he probably printed it out at his job.
[21:09.740 --> 21:10.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[21:10.540 --> 21:11.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: But not on a dot-matrix...
[21:11.920 --> 21:13.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, on a laser printer.
[21:13.220 --> 21:13.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[21:13.840 --> 21:14.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Makes sense.
[21:14.580 --> 21:18.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Just because he has a dot-matrix at home doesn't mean he couldn't use a laser printer at his job.
[21:18.280 --> 21:19.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I believe that the dot-matrix was taken from his office.
[21:20.100 --> 21:22.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: But the thing is, we're well familiar with this as hackers.
[21:22.780 --> 21:25.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: We know that when federal authorities come and take equipment, they take everything.
[21:25.840 --> 21:26.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: They take your telephone.
[21:26.820 --> 21:27.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: They take your answering machines.
[21:28.020 --> 21:28.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: They take...
[21:28.700 --> 21:35.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, in this article, they go into some detail of some of the other evidence that they're taking.
[21:35.980 --> 21:37.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: They went, they took games.
[21:38.400 --> 21:41.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: They took 30 computer games.
[21:42.480 --> 21:50.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: They also seized telephone voicemail records that showed that Mr. Ayyad was speaking to Mr. Salami.
[21:50.300 --> 21:52.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Or at least they claim that that's what they would show.
[21:52.680 --> 21:54.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, yeah, they're very thorough as far as that goes.
[21:55.000 --> 21:58.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the question is, you know, in an investigation, of course, you need to be thorough.
[21:59.440 --> 22:00.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: And in an investigation...
[22:00.880 --> 22:04.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is a good example of an investigation that deserves to be thorough.
[22:04.200 --> 22:11.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, you know, other investigations that we've covered here over the years involving hackers and things like that, you don't really need those strong-arm tactics.
[22:11.780 --> 22:13.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's kind of a bit much.
[22:14.520 --> 22:15.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[22:15.100 --> 22:19.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's pretty much the wrap-up of news items.
[22:19.340 --> 22:25.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: I did hear something interesting today, though, that voicemail is being introduced at police precincts throughout the city.
[22:25.600 --> 22:42.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: So when you call the police, not when you call 911, don't want to get anybody to panic here, but when you call the non-emergency lines, you are now going to get, on some precincts anyway, a recording saying, press 1 for, you know, to report a crime, press 2 to commit a crime,
[22:42.940 --> 22:48.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: press 3 to, you know, ask about details of something, you know, things like that.
[22:48.900 --> 22:51.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I don't know what other choices they would have, really.
[22:51.640 --> 22:58.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: But they're introducing voicemail because, I don't know, I guess they're tired of picking up the phone, or maybe they don't have enough people to pick up the phone.
[22:58.880 --> 23:01.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: There must be all kinds of reasons why you'd want to have something like that.
[23:01.480 --> 23:05.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, of course, if you don't have a Touch-Tone phone, you're going to have to just wait around anyway for an operator.
[23:06.680 --> 23:09.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: But it seems like you're getting voicemail every place you look.
[23:09.700 --> 23:12.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: The phone company, the electric company, the police.
[23:13.340 --> 23:16.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't think the fire people have it yet, but...
[23:16.040 --> 23:18.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we don't have it here at WBAI, at least not that I know of.
[23:18.840 --> 23:21.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: We have an automated answering attendant, but that's not the same thing.
[23:21.780 --> 23:22.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: We don't have voicemail.
[23:22.680 --> 23:26.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: It doesn't transfer you to hundreds of thousands of places and eventually nowhere.
[23:27.120 --> 23:30.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: And you can't get lost in it, really, unless you try.
[23:30.820 --> 23:33.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: So that's something else that's going on.
[23:33.220 --> 23:48.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: And then another thing that happened, I believe it was about a week ago, and this is something that we're going to be following a little bit more closely in coming weeks, on the Nationwide Computer System Prodigy, somebody recently got into a whole lot of trouble for posting information about a company.
[23:49.140 --> 23:51.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Information that the company didn't like.
[23:51.340 --> 23:53.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: They called it slanderous.
[23:53.360 --> 24:00.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: And they have gone and filed a multi-million dollar lawsuit against this person for saying bad things about their company.
[24:02.180 --> 24:08.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, we have to figure out what the guidelines are, and this is a case where the particulars are still coming in.
[24:08.260 --> 24:15.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: But when you speak in a public forum, when you're on a bulletin board, a Nationwide Bulletin Board, and you're having a conversation, what is that equivalent to?
[24:15.720 --> 24:18.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is that equivalent to being on a national broadcast?
[24:18.600 --> 24:20.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is that equivalent to having a newspaper column?
[24:20.740 --> 24:26.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is it equivalent to having a news story written?
[24:26.000 --> 24:28.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Or is it equivalent to hanging out in a mall?
[24:29.340 --> 24:33.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, it's something that I don't think very many of us really have a grip on yet.
[24:34.260 --> 24:42.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: It seems to me, my personal opinion is that it's a lot closer to just being with a group of people that you decide to be with.
[24:42.940 --> 24:48.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: For instance, you call up Prodigy, you decide to join a particular news group, and you converse with those people.
[24:48.640 --> 24:51.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: That is not putting something out for everybody to read.
[24:51.980 --> 24:59.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: That is putting something out for the people that choose to be in that particular part of the computer system that you share.
[24:59.840 --> 25:13.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, to treat that as if somebody is putting something out on a newspaper and calling it slanderous based on journalistic integrity and all that kind of thing, it's a very dangerous precedent.
[25:13.180 --> 25:17.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: It encourages people to not say anything that could be in the slightest bit critical.
[25:17.240 --> 25:21.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, imagine a world where you couldn't say something critical in a shopping mall.
[25:22.320 --> 25:23.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're hanging out with a bunch of people.
[25:23.940 --> 25:29.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I think maybe the 2600 meeting analogy is probably the best here, because that's exactly what we do.
[25:29.080 --> 25:33.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: We bring people together in a public place, and people just converse.
[25:34.880 --> 25:40.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not really a public place, because as we learned in Washington, D.C., malls are a private property, and they can kick you off.
[25:40.460 --> 25:44.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: But for the most part, malls are public gathering places.
[25:44.600 --> 25:49.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: They might not be public legally, but they are where the public gathers, so that's close enough.
[25:50.200 --> 25:59.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, if you have restrictions on what you can talk about in such a setting, it's suddenly not a very free and open society anymore.
[26:00.200 --> 26:15.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, if the computer systems are meant to be an extension of real-life interaction, then we should extend some of those ways of dealing with subjects, things that we allow and don't allow.
[26:15.340 --> 26:16.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: That should be extended over as well.
[26:17.480 --> 26:18.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't see the difference.
[26:19.100 --> 26:33.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: If somebody could explain that to me tonight, someone can call in and tell me what the difference is between saying something in a fairly, I don't want to say completely closed environment, because anybody can walk in and take part in the conversation.
[26:33.060 --> 26:35.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: But that's the case in a park.
[26:35.480 --> 26:36.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's the case in a mall.
[26:36.720 --> 26:40.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's the case on a bus, you know, where you're having a conversation.
[26:40.300 --> 26:41.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: And people can join in.
[26:41.320 --> 26:42.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: People can listen in and not say anything.
[26:45.100 --> 26:48.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's different in some ways, because you can copy it.
[26:48.220 --> 26:49.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can print it.
[26:49.200 --> 26:50.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can send it other places.
[26:51.760 --> 26:56.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, you know, in that respect, you can also tape record people without their knowledge and spread that around, too.
[26:56.720 --> 26:58.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, I don't know.
[26:59.020 --> 27:05.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Freedom of speech is going to be the major issue of the 1990s in the computer and technological worlds.
[27:05.980 --> 27:08.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, we'll be taking phone calls on this and other subjects.
[27:08.760 --> 27:10.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212-279-3400.
[27:10.460 --> 27:12.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: First, let's take a very quick musical break.
[27:13.160 --> 27:15.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we'll be back for your phone calls.
[27:15.360 --> 27:17.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: 212-279-3400.
[27:17.340 --> 27:19.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: If
[27:26.500 --> 28:06.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: you're listening to this song You may think the records are going wrong But they're not You just know it's like that When you're listening late at night You may think the band are not quite right But they are, they just play it like that.
[28:09.890 --> 28:24.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't really matter what chords I play, what words I say, or time of day it is, as it's only a normal sign.
[28:48.690 --> 29:03.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't really matter what chords I wear, or how I wear, or if my hair is brown, when it's only a normal song.
[29:06.810 --> 29:20.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you think the home of me is a little dark and out of peace, you're correct.
[29:21.880 --> 29:24.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's nobody there,
[29:37.390 --> 29:41.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: and I told you there's no one there.
[30:33.570 --> 30:35.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, things seemed so simple back then.
[30:36.490 --> 30:43.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: John and the Beatles, with only a northern song here on WBAI, Off the Hook.
[30:44.110 --> 30:57.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: And speaking of 2600 meetings that are coming up this Friday, the one in New York City takes place at the City Chorus Center, right there in the lobby by the payphones, between the hours of 5 and 8 p.m.
[30:57.350 --> 31:01.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's this Friday, 153 East 53rd Street.
[31:01.070 --> 31:04.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's also meetings going on in Poughkeepsie, New York.
[31:04.790 --> 31:08.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: And since that might be in our listening area, I'll give out the address there, too.
[31:08.610 --> 31:14.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's in South Hills Mall, off Route 9, by the payphones, in front of Radio Shack, next to the food court.
[31:15.390 --> 31:19.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's a brand new location for 2600 meetings in Poughkeepsie.
[31:19.270 --> 31:28.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Also, possibly in our listening area, Philadelphia, the 30th Street Amtrak station at 30th Street and Market, under the stairwell 7 sign.
[31:28.310 --> 31:28.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: No kidding.
[31:28.790 --> 31:30.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's where they meet, under the stairwell 7 sign.
[31:30.690 --> 31:35.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: I imagine they spread out all over the place, but that's pretty much where all the activity is focused.
[31:35.890 --> 31:42.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Another potential listening area is Danbury, Connecticut, the Danbury Fair Mall, off exit 4 of I-84 in the food court.
[31:43.470 --> 31:46.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: And these places, a fair bet, can't hear us, so I'll just list the cities.
[31:46.970 --> 32:00.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Washington, D.C., Cambridge, Massachusetts, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Fort Lauderdale, Atlanta, Chicago, Ann Arbor, Michigan, Bloomington, Minnesota, St. Louis, Austin, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Munich, Germany.
[32:02.250 --> 32:09.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Also, we're working on cities in Hamburg, or meetings in Hamburg, El Paso, Texas, and Madison, Wisconsin.
[32:10.650 --> 32:16.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, yeah, this is really expanding and reaching many different cities.
[32:16.870 --> 32:25.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: And all with the same basic quest to share knowledge, share information, and have an open exchange of ideas.
[32:25.550 --> 32:31.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Always there are people sneaking around with sunglasses on, trying to spy on these people that are meeting out in the open.
[32:31.570 --> 32:32.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: But that's all part of the game.
[32:33.870 --> 32:43.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, Phiber Optik has something to say on the New York Telephones, new services that will be offered supposedly tomorrow, or maybe not.
[32:43.910 --> 32:44.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's the story?
[32:45.030 --> 32:45.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hey, folks.
[32:46.850 --> 32:56.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, last month's bill, some of you might have received a notice talking about call ID and call return and other services and when they'll be available.
[32:58.070 --> 33:05.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, as far as the schedule goes, a lot of you out there might already have these features and probably have had them since last year.
[33:11.130 --> 33:12.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I'm one of those people.
[33:13.270 --> 33:21.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, as far as the notice said, by April 1st, not only should everyone have it, but everyone in Manhattan and the Bronx should as well.
[33:22.250 --> 33:25.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, not only is that technically infeasible, but it's ridiculous.
[33:25.490 --> 33:30.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, the only thing I could conclude from that is it's April 1st.
[33:30.410 --> 33:32.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's April Fool's Day.
[33:32.450 --> 33:33.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: It must be a joke.
[33:34.570 --> 33:44.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, what all you folks out there should do tomorrow at various points in the day is pick up your phone and dial star 67 and see if you can disable call ID.
[33:45.550 --> 33:48.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: And if you get a dial tone back again, then congratulations.
[33:49.710 --> 33:51.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you don't, then the joke's on you.
[33:52.650 --> 33:54.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: April Fool's from New York Telephone.
[33:54.950 --> 33:59.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, well, now, keeping with that, what we're going to do now is pick up a phone.
[34:00.910 --> 34:02.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, we got our dial tone here.
[34:02.350 --> 34:06.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're going to... since we here at WBAI as yet don't have this particular service, let's see if...
[34:07.190 --> 34:08.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: let's see if we have it now.
[34:08.690 --> 34:10.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, we're going to dial 9 to get out.
[34:11.050 --> 34:13.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we'll dial star 67, as you say.
[34:16.290 --> 34:17.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: See if we get anything.
[34:20.010 --> 34:21.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I think maybe the phone system hung up on us again.
[34:22.370 --> 34:23.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, let's try that again.
[34:27.740 --> 34:30.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry, we are unable to complete your call.
[34:31.020 --> 34:38.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you are making a call in the 212 area, please try again without using the 212 or ask your operator for assistance.
[34:39.940 --> 34:41.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: What I like about this recording...
[34:41.660 --> 34:43.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: We are unable to complete your call.
[34:43.160 --> 34:44.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: He says, I'm sorry.
[34:44.500 --> 34:45.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: We are sorry.
[34:45.060 --> 34:45.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Not we're sorry.
[34:46.180 --> 34:48.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: And he sounds really sincere about it, doesn't he?
[34:49.320 --> 34:50.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: It seems as if it's his fault.
[34:51.080 --> 34:51.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: It might be his fault.
[34:52.040 --> 34:52.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's hear it one more time.
[34:53.280 --> 34:54.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sorry.
[34:54.660 --> 34:55.020]  Okay.
[34:56.780 --> 34:57.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm sorry, too.
[34:57.840 --> 35:00.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: But that's what we get if we try that here.
[35:01.000 --> 35:03.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I'm sure a lot of other people, too, because we're on a... what are we?
[35:03.940 --> 35:04.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: A 1A or a 1ESS?
[35:05.220 --> 35:06.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's either a 1 or a 1A.
[35:06.940 --> 35:08.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: One of those primitive things.
[35:08.040 --> 35:08.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[35:08.640 --> 35:16.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: And by my estimates, this particular office, as well as all the other analogs, are going to be the last ones, in fact, to get any of those services.
[35:16.940 --> 35:19.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: So if you don't get them in April, don't hold your breath.
[35:20.140 --> 35:20.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: No.
[35:20.580 --> 35:21.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're certainly not going to do that here.
[35:22.700 --> 35:25.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: But maybe some people will get it, and hopefully they'll tell us if they do.
[35:26.140 --> 35:31.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: And don't forget, you're entitled to that special, what is it, 60-day free services type of thing?
[35:31.900 --> 35:32.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[35:32.260 --> 35:34.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think you're allowed to play with them for a month or two.
[35:34.960 --> 35:35.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[35:35.140 --> 35:35.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: Not caller ID.
[35:36.340 --> 35:36.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: No.
[35:36.700 --> 35:37.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: You don't get that for free.
[35:38.040 --> 35:38.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[35:38.420 --> 35:39.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: You have to subscribe to that.
[35:39.240 --> 35:41.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: But call return and...
[35:41.900 --> 35:42.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Repeat call.
[35:42.580 --> 35:44.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Repeat call and things like that.
[35:44.200 --> 35:44.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: And call trace.
[35:44.560 --> 35:44.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I don't know.
[35:44.940 --> 35:47.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Was call trace ever at no cost?
[35:48.000 --> 35:48.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, yeah.
[35:48.480 --> 35:49.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was included.
[35:49.180 --> 35:50.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Those three features you get to play with.
[35:50.420 --> 35:50.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[35:50.540 --> 35:51.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: So you can trace all the people you want.
[35:52.420 --> 35:52.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Really?
[35:53.360 --> 35:53.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Supposed to.
[35:53.780 --> 35:53.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[35:54.000 --> 35:56.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, there's some disagreement on whether or not that is the case.
[35:57.060 --> 36:01.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: So check with your knowing phone company representatives before.
[36:01.800 --> 36:10.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, we want to know, because we've heard that various people have gotten billed, and of course, if someone doesn't question this fact during the trial, period, then they'll probably just end up paying it.
[36:11.100 --> 36:15.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: But as soon as these features start working, you're supposed to have a trial period for free.
[36:15.300 --> 36:20.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you get billed for using any of those features during the trial period, immediately report it to your business office.
[36:20.280 --> 36:20.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's right.
[36:20.560 --> 36:27.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't see how they get away with billing people 75 cents to call a number, just because they dial star 69 to do it.
[36:27.480 --> 36:28.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: It doesn't really make all that much sense to me.
[36:29.020 --> 36:30.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: And then there's also a new thing now.
[36:31.340 --> 36:34.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm not sure if, you know, I think maybe we should...
[36:34.780 --> 36:36.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's a good number we can check?
[36:37.060 --> 36:37.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[36:37.260 --> 36:37.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: I know what we can do.
[36:37.800 --> 36:43.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: We can call WBAI, and we can ask what the phone number is, WBAI.
[36:44.080 --> 36:45.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's a new service available.
[36:45.960 --> 36:56.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm not sure if it's available here in New York yet, but we're going to learn that right here on the air, where when you call information, they give you the option of actually connecting to the number.
[36:57.020 --> 36:58.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Have you tried this at all?
[36:58.520 --> 37:02.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I've used information recently, and no, I didn't notice anything different.
[37:02.420 --> 37:05.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: You'd use it from your home phone or from a payphone, because there's difference.
[37:06.060 --> 37:07.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, let's try it here.
[37:07.220 --> 37:07.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's get it...
[37:07.760 --> 37:09.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's get an operator on the line.
[37:12.060 --> 37:14.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, let's see if we can actually do this.
[37:18.370 --> 37:19.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's a ring from the past, isn't it?
[37:19.850 --> 37:21.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't think they'll be doing anything with that one.
[37:27.750 --> 37:28.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: I can hear the dirt.
[37:29.970 --> 37:30.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening, Miss Aldi.
[37:30.990 --> 37:31.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: What city, please?
[37:31.870 --> 37:32.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, hi, Manhattan.
[37:32.750 --> 37:37.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I'm looking for the number of a particular radio station called WBAI.
[37:37.550 --> 37:37.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[37:38.130 --> 37:38.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[37:39.310 --> 37:44.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: The number is 279-0707.
[37:44.710 --> 37:45.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's the old recording.
[37:48.590 --> 37:49.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: 279-0707.
[37:49.490 --> 37:50.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's also the...
[37:50.510 --> 37:51.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: You need further assistance.
[37:51.830 --> 37:52.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, no, please go away.
[37:53.090 --> 37:53.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: Assistance option.
[37:53.930 --> 37:54.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[37:55.090 --> 38:07.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, that's also the studio, the studio line, not the studio line, the office line, so don't get lost in our automated attendance system somehow.
[38:07.690 --> 38:10.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: But within a month or so, that should change.
[38:10.210 --> 38:11.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we'll demonstrate it here when it does.
[38:12.190 --> 38:14.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: In some parts of the area, it already has changed.
[38:15.110 --> 38:29.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: When you connect to information, they will say, after they give you the number, for an additional, and this is another crime, for an additional 35 cents, by pressing, I believe, 1 or saying the word yes at the tone, you'll be able to connect to that particular number.
[38:30.130 --> 38:35.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, that tells me that certain bits of information are transferred to information now.
[38:35.190 --> 38:39.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: For instance, what your phone number is so that you can be billed, whether or not you're a payphone.
[38:39.190 --> 38:47.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I wonder if you call information and you connect in that way, if the person can star 69 you again, can call you back because you called through information.
[38:47.770 --> 38:52.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Things like that have to be tested, and that's one of the things hopefully our listeners can help us with.
[38:52.950 --> 38:53.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[38:53.310 --> 38:55.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's go to our first listener phone call.
[38:55.770 --> 38:56.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[38:56.430 --> 38:56.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're on Off the Hook.
[38:57.490 --> 38:57.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hi.
[38:58.030 --> 39:00.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: I heard you tell a story once about...
[39:00.230 --> 39:01.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: Can you speak up a little bit, please?
[39:01.430 --> 39:01.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh?
[39:01.890 --> 39:02.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, just speak up a little bit.
[39:03.010 --> 39:03.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yep.
[39:03.490 --> 39:04.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: Can you hear me?
[39:04.230 --> 39:04.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[39:04.610 --> 39:04.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Go ahead.
[39:05.090 --> 39:05.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[39:05.330 --> 39:06.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: I wanted to ask a question.
[39:06.510 --> 39:20.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: I heard you mention once, when you were conveying a story of having gone to Canada and coming back into the country, about credit cards and about how one can have credit cards in different names, or in a name different from your own name.
[39:20.790 --> 39:25.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: And also, recently, I read in a book, I think it was... I was just flipping through.
[39:25.190 --> 39:28.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think it was the Ultimate Credit Handbook about credit repair.
[39:28.430 --> 39:31.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: One of the things they mentioned was changing your identity.
[39:31.950 --> 39:34.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm wondering if there are any serious books out there about it.
[39:34.790 --> 39:35.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm just curious about this.
[39:36.510 --> 39:38.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or any information that you might have on it.
[39:39.010 --> 39:48.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I'm sure you can get books on changing your identity, both at some bookstores here in New York, and also probably through Loompanics in Washington State.
[39:49.170 --> 39:55.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: But as far as having different names on your credit card, it's very simple to do that.
[39:56.010 --> 39:58.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: All you have to do is contact your credit card company.
[39:58.330 --> 40:02.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: With the exception of American Express, they allow you at least one other name for free.
[40:02.710 --> 40:06.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: American Express will charge you an additional cardholder fee for that.
[40:06.890 --> 40:08.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: They'll allow you to do it, but you'll have to pay for it.
[40:09.050 --> 40:11.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the numbers stay the same on the credit card.
[40:11.670 --> 40:12.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's the same exact numbers.
[40:13.110 --> 40:15.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's just, you know, a different name and it gets billed to you.
[40:15.130 --> 40:16.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: But it fools a lot of people.
[40:16.110 --> 40:19.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: It makes them think that you actually got somebody's credit card somehow.
[40:19.570 --> 40:19.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[40:20.010 --> 40:22.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: I guess they only care about your Social Security number.
[40:23.230 --> 40:27.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's an interesting point because technically they don't have to have your Social Security number.
[40:28.070 --> 40:30.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: The credit card companies really aren't supposed to have that information.
[40:30.970 --> 40:32.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: They don't need it for anything.
[40:32.570 --> 40:35.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: But they won't issue you a credit card unless you give it to them, of course.
[40:35.750 --> 40:39.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, they won't issue you a credit card unless you give them a Social Security number.
[40:39.010 --> 40:45.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: And as long as when you talk to them in the future, you give them that same Social Security number, there shouldn't be a problem.
[40:45.130 --> 40:47.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I don't believe that they require your exact one.
[40:47.990 --> 40:50.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't think they're looking at the records.
[40:50.130 --> 40:52.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: I could be wrong about that, but I don't think that they actually check that.
[40:53.930 --> 40:55.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Also, how would I look up these books?
[40:55.810 --> 40:57.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: Would it be under credit or identity?
[40:57.390 --> 40:58.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you have any idea?
[40:59.270 --> 41:01.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you know, those kind of books are hard to look up.
[41:01.950 --> 41:12.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, you could find conceivably something like that in your library, but probably the best thing to do is to look at some magazines that would have information like that.
[41:12.950 --> 41:16.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm trying to think of some good ones off the top of my head.
[41:17.670 --> 41:22.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: Various, maybe even survivalist-type magazines, which you could find in some select bookstores.
[41:22.550 --> 41:32.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: In the back of those, you'd have various things on concealing your identity for people that, you know, plan on pulling Rambos someday and want to conceal their identity.
[41:32.030 --> 41:38.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I don't know why they'd be afraid of concealing their identity, but that's how you would find the book in the first place.
[41:40.190 --> 41:43.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: But if I had... I don't have Loompanics' address handy.
[41:44.130 --> 41:47.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not in my... The name Port Townsend, Washington, seems to ring a bell.
[41:47.970 --> 41:51.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: But it's somewhere there, and they have a good catalog, and I'm sure they have books like that as well.
[41:51.870 --> 41:52.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: And there's others, too.
[41:52.830 --> 41:54.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's other catalogs.
[41:54.730 --> 41:56.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: P-A-N-I-X?
[41:57.110 --> 41:58.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: P-A-N-I-C-S.
[41:58.770 --> 42:00.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's in Washington State?
[42:00.750 --> 42:01.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: Somewhere in Washington State.
[42:02.030 --> 42:04.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'll find the address, so somebody hopefully will call in with it.
[42:04.930 --> 42:05.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Great.
[42:05.530 --> 42:06.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, thanks a lot.
[42:06.570 --> 42:07.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[42:07.450 --> 42:07.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks.
[42:09.090 --> 42:16.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, well, hiding your identity is something that sounds like, you know, you're up to something when you want to hide your identity, but lots of times people just want to be left alone.
[42:17.110 --> 42:17.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[42:18.270 --> 42:18.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hey there.
[42:19.730 --> 42:27.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Y'all mentioned on last week's show that you were concerned as to how Con Ed knew what electrical items a person had in their home.
[42:27.230 --> 42:29.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, that was a point brought up by a listener.
[42:29.230 --> 42:42.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: I have been informed that Con Ed systems can detect a unique power ID given off by every type of electronic device, and it seems that every device has a different signal that it gives off, and Con Ed can pick up on it.
[42:42.890 --> 42:48.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: So PCs would give off one signal, and air conditioners would give off another, while a clock radio gives off a third.
[42:49.130 --> 42:55.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: I imagine that it wouldn't be illegal to somehow modify the ID, the signal, to fool Con Ed, would it?
[42:55.430 --> 43:05.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: But they seem to use it to catch people who grow marijuana in their homes, since grow lights are electrical and give off a unique ID just like everything else.
[43:05.610 --> 43:16.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've heard about the grow lights being detected in some manner, but what I'm curious about is you say that certain things give off certain patterns.
[43:16.330 --> 43:20.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, are you referring to the drain on the AC?
[43:20.210 --> 43:23.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Are you referring to something like RF being given off by a computer screen?
[43:23.850 --> 43:25.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not really sure.
[43:25.230 --> 43:29.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: I would imagine it's more from the AC, whatever it is.
[43:29.830 --> 43:31.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I don't know for sure.
[43:31.850 --> 43:35.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm kind of going on information from someone who knows more about these things.
[43:35.950 --> 43:39.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: And does this person have a background in this kind of...
[43:39.790 --> 43:40.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: A little bit.
[43:41.030 --> 43:41.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[43:41.770 --> 43:43.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, we're looking for something a bit more concrete.
[43:44.570 --> 43:45.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I don't...
[43:45.690 --> 43:48.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: To be honest, I really don't think that's possible.
[43:48.850 --> 43:50.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'd love to see proof that something like that is possible.
[43:51.210 --> 43:51.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Really?
[43:51.650 --> 43:54.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, you know, if it were possible, I think a lot of us would be up in arms.
[43:55.250 --> 43:55.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh.
[43:55.950 --> 43:57.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, maybe I'll research it further.
[43:57.910 --> 43:58.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, do that.
[43:58.430 --> 44:00.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: And if you find something, you know, let us know.
[44:01.410 --> 44:01.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[44:02.110 --> 44:02.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks much.
[44:02.790 --> 44:03.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, thank you.
[44:04.130 --> 44:04.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Phiber, what do you think of that?
[44:04.890 --> 44:15.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, to me, it sounds all too technically feasible for them to simply do comparative analyses of current terrain for various different types of appliances.
[44:16.030 --> 44:22.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: And although there would be certain probabilities that certain people had certain appliances, they couldn't say beyond a reasonable doubt what they owned.
[44:22.530 --> 44:25.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, but how do you divide up all different appliances?
[44:25.690 --> 44:27.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, you're looking at one power drain for a house.
[44:28.310 --> 44:28.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[44:28.610 --> 44:33.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: How do you divide that into, say, three refrigerators, a space heater, and a computer?
[44:33.010 --> 44:33.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's what I'm saying.
[44:33.550 --> 44:35.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: All they could do is guess rather inaccurately.
[44:35.450 --> 44:37.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't see how they could really have anything accurate to go by.
[44:38.150 --> 44:38.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[44:38.770 --> 44:40.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, well, I'd love to hear more information on this.
[44:40.470 --> 44:43.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: If anybody has anything, please send it in to us or call in with it.
[44:43.950 --> 44:44.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[44:45.250 --> 44:45.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello?
[44:45.810 --> 44:46.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, go ahead.
[44:46.610 --> 44:48.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I got a great question for you.
[44:48.310 --> 44:50.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: I need to know about System 75.
[44:51.690 --> 44:52.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: You need to know about it?
[44:53.090 --> 44:54.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, I know about it.
[44:54.290 --> 44:54.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[44:54.670 --> 44:56.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: It is hard to find in the New York area.
[44:56.210 --> 44:56.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Why?
[44:57.090 --> 44:58.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's hard to find in the New York area.
[44:58.830 --> 44:59.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Are they obsolete here now?
[44:59.970 --> 45:03.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, now, System 75 is a PBX?
[45:04.290 --> 45:04.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[45:04.730 --> 45:05.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, it's an AT&T PBX.
[45:05.890 --> 45:06.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: An AT&T PBX.
[45:07.230 --> 45:07.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[45:07.470 --> 45:10.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, and, um, what, is it known for anything in particular?
[45:11.790 --> 45:12.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Say that again?
[45:12.530 --> 45:13.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is it known for anything in particular?
[45:14.010 --> 45:16.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: What, what is it about System 75 that's unique?
[45:16.750 --> 45:18.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, sure, back, the back doors.
[45:18.310 --> 45:19.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: They use it for the back doors.
[45:19.610 --> 45:19.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[45:20.430 --> 45:22.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think now they're obsolete now.
[45:22.290 --> 45:23.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: I can't find them in New York.
[45:23.570 --> 45:25.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, either they're obsolete or they fix the back doors.
[45:25.770 --> 45:26.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no.
[45:26.810 --> 45:30.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: We used to, we make trunks from that, from 75.
[45:30.690 --> 45:31.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[45:31.490 --> 45:32.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they're gone now.
[45:32.570 --> 45:36.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: We can't find anything in 212 through 516 through 718 or 914.
[45:37.510 --> 45:38.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you know, it's possible.
[45:38.790 --> 45:39.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, how long have they been around for?
[45:40.290 --> 45:41.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Two, three years.
[45:41.610 --> 45:44.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's, that's, uh, you know, that's not too long a time in, in, in most things.
[45:44.950 --> 45:48.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: System 75 has been around a hell of a lot longer than, than two or three years.
[45:48.610 --> 45:48.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[45:49.630 --> 45:51.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, that's a great, that's a great, uh, answer.
[45:52.550 --> 45:53.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll look upon it, though.
[45:54.010 --> 45:55.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Maybe, maybe you'll elaborate on that a little bit.
[45:56.890 --> 45:58.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe the phone bill goes lower.
[45:58.590 --> 45:58.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[45:59.150 --> 46:00.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, well, thanks for, uh, thanks for calling.
[46:00.810 --> 46:01.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yep, sure.
[46:01.510 --> 46:04.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Want to, uh, go into the history of System 75 a bit?
[46:04.490 --> 46:14.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, uh, well, not really all too interested in, uh, AT&T PBXs, but, uh, if anyone else is, all they can do is, uh, they can simply order the documentation from the AT&T Customer Information Center.
[46:14.650 --> 46:21.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: They have, uh, very detailed documentation on the workings of, uh, System 75 and all their other, uh, PBXs.
[46:21.530 --> 46:22.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: And does that cost anything to get that?
[46:22.970 --> 46:23.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, yeah.
[46:23.430 --> 46:28.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: The catalog is free, but, uh, depending on what you want to order, what documentation you want to order, it, it, uh, tends to cost.
[46:28.270 --> 46:30.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sometimes it's, uh, pricey, and sometimes it's not so pricey.
[46:31.290 --> 46:33.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, and I guess you can get that, uh, by calling information.
[46:34.090 --> 46:38.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, uh, sorry, I don't, I don't remember the number off the top of my head, but, uh.
[46:38.230 --> 46:40.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's an 800 number, so just scan all the 800 numbers.
[46:40.430 --> 46:41.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was in 2,600.
[46:41.590 --> 46:41.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[46:42.290 --> 46:42.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, it was?
[46:42.850 --> 46:42.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[46:44.230 --> 46:44.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, the most recent issue.
[46:45.050 --> 46:45.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: The one that just came out.
[46:46.090 --> 46:47.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's 800 for something.
[46:47.910 --> 46:49.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, well, it narrows it down quite a bit.
[46:50.230 --> 46:53.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, okay, I'm currently, uh, scanning an issue here.
[46:54.050 --> 46:56.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, so when I get the number, I will, I will read it over the air.
[46:57.470 --> 46:58.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, let's go back to the phones.
[46:58.850 --> 46:59.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[46:59.810 --> 47:00.090]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hello.
[47:00.390 --> 47:00.750]  [SPEAKER_20]: How you doing?
[47:00.810 --> 47:00.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello.
[47:01.470 --> 47:14.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, I keep on getting notices, notices galore from New York Telephone about a free connection, uh, to order call, call waiting by, and now it says order call waiting by April 3rd.
[47:14.230 --> 47:14.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[47:14.730 --> 47:14.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[47:14.870 --> 47:18.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: In 1993, it saved a $16 connection charge.
[47:18.430 --> 47:22.370]  [SPEAKER_20]: Now, I don't want call waiting, but my question is this.
[47:22.590 --> 47:33.210]  [SPEAKER_20]: Do you know by any chance if New York Telephone is, it's planning to institute it compulsorily after a certain date, whether you want it or not?
[47:33.210 --> 47:36.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, and in that case, I would want to save myself to charge.
[47:36.550 --> 47:39.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, no, they, they can't, they can't force call, uh, call waiting on you.
[47:40.410 --> 47:41.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is that your question?
[47:41.890 --> 47:43.030]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, that's just it.
[47:43.030 --> 47:55.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's a low-level question considering all the, uh, very much more interesting items, but right now, but I just, when I'm on the phone, I don't want to be interrupted by another phone call.
[47:55.050 --> 47:55.270]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right, right.
[47:55.270 --> 48:00.570]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's just, if someone needs me, they'll wait, and I don't, uh, talk for that long anyway.
[48:00.650 --> 48:02.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right, yeah, well, call waiting...
[48:05.610 --> 48:10.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you see, call waiting is a very annoying, uh, service to a lot of people.
[48:10.310 --> 48:18.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, uh, how many times have you been talking to somebody, and you hear a little beep, or, you know, or just a bit of silence, or a click, or something like that, and they say, oh, hold on, and they don't come back for about ten minutes.
[48:18.990 --> 48:19.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's right.
[48:19.590 --> 48:21.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's very annoying, so a lot of people don't want that service.
[48:21.970 --> 48:22.270]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's very annoying.
[48:22.570 --> 48:23.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'll talk to someone.
[48:23.810 --> 48:30.250]  [SPEAKER_20]: There are some people whom I can't call up without being interrupted in half a minute by, wait a minute.
[48:30.430 --> 48:30.650]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[48:30.650 --> 48:39.370]  [SPEAKER_20]: I wait for ten, fifty minutes, then I talk to them for a couple of seconds, wait a minute, and it's just so annoying.
[48:39.610 --> 48:41.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, well, you should just, uh, hang up when that happens.
[48:42.050 --> 48:42.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's what I do.
[48:42.970 --> 48:46.250]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I see no reason to get this thing for myself.
[48:46.510 --> 48:49.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right, and you have to pay, what, four dollars a month for the privilege of having that?
[48:49.550 --> 48:50.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not worth it.
[48:50.790 --> 48:51.510]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's right.
[48:52.470 --> 48:57.450]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, you can't imagine how many notices I've been getting about it.
[48:57.450 --> 49:00.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you see, it's, it's really, it's money for nothing for the phone company.
[49:00.790 --> 49:08.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, I mean, if you were able to make, you know, that amount of money per month off all the people that fell for a particular trick, then you'd mail them a hundred letters, too, to get them to do that.
[49:09.370 --> 49:18.930]  [SPEAKER_20]: And altogether, there have been so many notices about all sorts of services they offer you, and, uh, services that I don't need.
[49:19.310 --> 49:22.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's what the phone company is there for, for the services you don't need.
[49:22.310 --> 49:23.010]  [SPEAKER_20]: And for voicemail.
[49:23.230 --> 49:30.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: I have a, I'd love to try this again, calling that, uh, when you call for a wake-up service.
[49:30.170 --> 49:31.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[49:31.150 --> 49:39.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: When you call up, wake up, I've had a very bad experience in that they give you instructions, call one, right?
[49:39.830 --> 49:39.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[49:40.350 --> 50:03.210]  [SPEAKER_20]: And then, when I call one, when I press one, I get, what do you call it, I, I get a repetition of the same thing, all the different numbers that you have to dial for different things, and I very quickly, uh, then they tell you to dial three digits, which I immediately do very quickly,
[50:03.390 --> 50:06.130]  [SPEAKER_20]: and then they come back with the original instructions.
[50:06.510 --> 50:16.110]  [SPEAKER_20]: Ever since they've had this voice thing on, uh, wake-up for a wake-up call, I haven't been able to get through to a wake-up call, actually, over the last couple of months.
[50:16.110 --> 50:20.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're in, uh, call processing hell, it sounds like, and that's, uh, it's a horrible place to be.
[50:21.550 --> 50:30.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, usually you can, you can do a wake-up service better than, than these other companies can do, and, and for much cheaper as well, you know, just with an automated device of your own.
[50:30.870 --> 50:32.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's, it's, it's not that hard to do.
[50:32.830 --> 50:33.110]  [SPEAKER_20]: No?
[50:33.470 --> 50:34.770]  [SPEAKER_20]: How would you do this?
[50:35.510 --> 50:35.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well...
[50:35.910 --> 50:44.490]  [SPEAKER_20]: I haven't done, I haven't tried them recently, that is, for a week or two, so otherwise I'd be able to tell you precisely just what happens then.
[50:44.490 --> 50:46.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm going to trade between now and next week.
[50:47.010 --> 50:47.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[50:47.910 --> 50:54.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, uh, you know, one of the ways I would, I would do something like that would be just to have anything that is able to call out at a particular time.
[50:54.230 --> 50:59.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, every fax machine has a way of calling, uh, at a particular time that you preset.
[50:59.630 --> 51:02.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, computers can, can also be programmed to do this.
[51:02.850 --> 51:06.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, I'm sure there are devices being, being made that can call out.
[51:06.830 --> 51:11.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: You need a second phone line, and you need a way of programming that second phone line to make a phone call at a particular time.
[51:11.750 --> 51:20.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: If somebody out there wants to invent something that would be really useful, just a, a cheap device that you put onto your telephone that makes it call your second line and make it ring at a particular time.
[51:20.630 --> 51:21.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, that would be good, yeah.
[51:21.910 --> 51:27.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: That would be great, and you wouldn't have to pay whatever it is you pay every time you, you dial that 540 number to get, uh, get a wake-up call.
[51:28.070 --> 51:46.210]  [SPEAKER_20]: Because when I call them, I follow the instructions exactly, I, I dial the digit or digits they ask you to, but, uh, while I do it, they come back with the original instructions about various numbers, you know how it is on voicemail, the diverse numbers you have to call,
[51:46.550 --> 51:52.070]  [SPEAKER_20]: and I, I can keep on trying it for an hour, and the very same thing keeps on happening.
[51:52.270 --> 51:54.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, then, uh, don't call that service anymore.
[51:54.210 --> 51:55.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: You don't get billed for that, I hope.
[51:56.010 --> 51:56.910]  I hope not.
[51:57.210 --> 51:57.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, I'll make sure you don't.
[51:58.030 --> 51:58.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're going to go to another call.
[51:58.970 --> 52:00.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks very much for, uh, for calling in.
[52:01.010 --> 52:02.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, let's, uh, see how many more we can fit in.
[52:02.690 --> 52:04.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: By the way, I did get that 800 number for AT&T.
[52:04.590 --> 52:08.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's, um, 800, you're right, 432, uh, 6600.
[52:09.350 --> 52:09.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's the one.
[52:09.970 --> 52:10.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: You got the four right.
[52:10.890 --> 52:12.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, 432, 6600.
[52:12.690 --> 52:18.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's AT&T Customer Information Center, and you can order all the information on System 75 that you could possibly desire.
[52:19.010 --> 52:20.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening, you're on Off the Hook.
[52:20.430 --> 52:21.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, great program.
[52:21.810 --> 52:22.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[52:25.310 --> 52:34.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: On the total, incredible ineptitude of Empire, Blue Cross, Blue Shield, that lost $50 million because its computers couldn't handle.
[52:34.790 --> 52:38.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, well, we read that story before, actually, and, uh, that, that is something.
[52:38.330 --> 53:00.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, every, every bill over $100,000 it couldn't comprehend, so it only billed the person, uh, I mean, how, how inept are those people with CEOs that earn nearly a million dollars a year?
[53:00.560 --> 53:02.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's, uh, it's all lack of planning.
[53:02.620 --> 53:04.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: People don't expect certain things to happen.
[53:04.620 --> 53:13.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: For instance, people don't expect, uh, the year to, uh, to increment after 1999, which is why some computers can't handle changing to 2,000.
[53:14.040 --> 53:25.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, people just, they, they don't think of, of certain things that are inevitable, uh, numbers that will reach certain heights, um, and, uh, you, you get chaos when this happens, and that's what happened to Empire Blue Cross.
[53:25.500 --> 53:27.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: They lost something like $4 million as a result of that.
[53:27.680 --> 53:29.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Even more, more, more, more.
[53:29.780 --> 53:32.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, and it's, uh, I'm sure there's other things that we haven't heard about as well.
[53:33.340 --> 53:34.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: Exactly, exactly.
[53:34.300 --> 53:34.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Great show.
[53:35.000 --> 53:35.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[53:35.920 --> 53:36.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Sure.
[53:36.940 --> 53:39.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: You ever hear of a, uh, of a computer program that does something like that?
[53:40.220 --> 53:42.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Just loses $100,000?
[53:43.340 --> 53:45.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hmm, well, I'm sure it happens a lot more than we hear about.
[53:45.740 --> 53:47.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, well, I wouldn't advertise it if I did it, that's for sure.
[53:47.920 --> 53:50.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, I don't think very many people out there are saying, yeah, yeah, we did it too.
[53:51.420 --> 53:56.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, but that's, uh, it's a good way to lose money if, if you don't plan bills of higher than $100,000.
[53:56.820 --> 53:58.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening, you're on, off the hook.
[53:58.420 --> 54:05.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Quick things, um, I'd like you to try that 910, you've mentioned one time about a 910 exchange in the 2 and 2 area.
[54:05.680 --> 54:10.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's right, yeah, it's a toll-free exchange, and when you call it, they can find out what your phone number is.
[54:10.660 --> 54:13.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll that, plus 9901, and see what happens.
[54:14.080 --> 54:29.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: And also, I wanted to say that I'm I tried calling 411, and I got the new system where the operator, the regular zero operator is the 411 operator, and I got the new recording, but I heard nothing about entering any numbers for being connected.
[54:29.320 --> 54:34.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just heard it as a new recording, like the old recording, saying the phone number.
[54:34.660 --> 54:36.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you just got a different recording, that's all you got?
[54:37.060 --> 54:37.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, that's all.
[54:37.580 --> 54:40.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: And how do you know it was a regular operator, not information?
[54:40.060 --> 54:43.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: The way the phones click, like, do you know how the payphones...
[54:43.440 --> 54:43.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[54:44.580 --> 54:48.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: When you call the regular zero operator, the payphone clicks a certain way.
[54:48.260 --> 54:48.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[54:48.600 --> 54:52.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: I call 411, it clicked the same way, so that's how I knew it was a new system.
[54:52.780 --> 54:52.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[54:54.100 --> 54:55.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, I can believe that.
[54:55.060 --> 54:56.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: A lot of people would say, how can you tell by clicks?
[54:56.800 --> 54:57.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I know what you mean.
[54:57.740 --> 55:01.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, and try that thing, and people... Oh, guess what I did?
[55:01.500 --> 55:06.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: When I went into chemical bank to make a free phone call, they told me to leave because it's not a public phone.
[55:06.660 --> 55:09.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just walked right into the next chemical bank.
[55:09.440 --> 55:13.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's something, and they welcomed you with open arms, huh?
[55:14.220 --> 55:15.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, try that number now.
[55:15.840 --> 55:16.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[55:17.360 --> 55:20.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know about this calling chemical bank, calling from chemical bank.
[55:21.060 --> 55:22.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: We'll see how that turns out.
[55:22.540 --> 55:22.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[55:23.240 --> 55:24.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi, how are you doing?
[55:24.200 --> 55:24.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're fine.
[55:25.260 --> 55:26.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let me turn my radio down.
[55:26.520 --> 55:26.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[55:27.920 --> 55:34.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, turn your radio down, otherwise I'll be in a loop like that poor person on the wake-up calls.
[55:35.060 --> 55:35.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: How are you doing?
[55:35.720 --> 55:36.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, we're fine.
[55:36.660 --> 55:37.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Two things.
[55:37.480 --> 55:37.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[55:38.320 --> 55:41.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Last week, I was listening to your conversation.
[55:41.720 --> 55:43.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: What the fellow just said, I tried.
[55:43.920 --> 55:44.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: 9901.
[55:44.720 --> 55:44.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[55:45.080 --> 55:46.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Opened an Ericsson office.
[55:47.000 --> 55:49.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ericsson switch, ESS5.
[55:49.920 --> 55:54.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: And also, the fellow called previously about the boxes.
[55:54.600 --> 55:54.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[55:54.940 --> 55:56.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Those boxes work today.
[55:56.220 --> 56:00.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Most of your phones are not connected directly to New York Tel.
[56:00.320 --> 56:07.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're using coin-operated telephones, which are basically a regular phone with a computer connected to a regular phone line.
[56:07.760 --> 56:07.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[56:08.360 --> 56:10.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: So you can't use either of those boxes, and they're illegal.
[56:12.020 --> 56:12.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[56:12.740 --> 56:13.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Illegal, huh?
[56:13.420 --> 56:14.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, the red boxes won't work.
[56:15.380 --> 56:18.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: And your black boxes won't work with an ESS office.
[56:18.520 --> 56:18.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[56:18.840 --> 56:19.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, that's old news.
[56:19.960 --> 56:22.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the 2600 stuff doesn't work anymore.
[56:22.880 --> 56:23.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[56:23.400 --> 56:25.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: When is this thing, uh, Friday, uh, at what time?
[56:25.760 --> 56:26.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Five o'clock?
[56:26.440 --> 56:29.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, 2600 meeting is this Friday from five to eight at CityCorp, yeah.
[56:29.760 --> 56:30.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, we might be there.
[56:30.780 --> 56:31.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: You gonna be there?
[56:31.560 --> 56:32.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, should be.
[56:32.480 --> 56:33.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Barring unforeseen circumstances.
[56:34.320 --> 56:35.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's at the main CityCorp building, right?
[56:36.000 --> 56:36.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's right.
[56:36.360 --> 56:36.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right in the lobby.
[56:37.640 --> 56:38.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, have a nice day.
[56:38.980 --> 56:39.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[56:39.480 --> 56:39.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Bye.
[56:39.620 --> 56:40.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks for calling.
[56:41.280 --> 56:45.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, uh, let's, um, let's, uh, try something here.
[56:45.320 --> 56:51.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm going to, uh, try and give a call to that particular number.
[56:51.640 --> 56:53.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's see if, uh, we actually got through here.
[56:53.720 --> 56:54.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anybody there?
[56:54.680 --> 56:55.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good.
[56:55.180 --> 56:55.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: This should be us.
[56:56.520 --> 56:57.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, that's us.
[56:57.700 --> 56:58.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wonderful.
[56:58.240 --> 57:00.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, we have to, uh, dial out.
[57:00.640 --> 57:01.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's get a dial tone.
[57:01.960 --> 57:02.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, wonderful.
[57:02.960 --> 57:03.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now.
[57:04.400 --> 57:05.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, great.
[57:05.300 --> 57:06.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: The Touch-Tones don't work.
[57:06.260 --> 57:07.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is, this is horrible.
[57:07.360 --> 57:08.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's, uh, let's try that again.
[57:09.020 --> 57:11.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Occasionally get a line where the Touch-Tones just don't work.
[57:13.880 --> 57:16.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is what the phone company does when you don't pay for your Touch-Tones.
[57:16.440 --> 57:20.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: They, they make, uh, they make the dial tone not work to your Touch-Tone.
[57:20.760 --> 57:21.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's try it again.
[57:24.970 --> 57:27.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, the phone company's been sabotaging us, apparently.
[57:27.530 --> 57:30.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, we can't seem to, uh, can't seem to dial out anymore.
[57:30.970 --> 57:31.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know why that is.
[57:32.450 --> 57:33.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm going to try it one more time.
[57:36.150 --> 57:36.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, we can't do it.
[57:37.050 --> 57:37.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm sorry.
[57:37.610 --> 57:40.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: So everybody out there, you dial 910-9901 and see what happens.
[57:41.170 --> 57:42.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I can tell you what it says.
[57:43.130 --> 57:45.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, yeah, but it's not the same thing.
[57:45.550 --> 57:47.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: You see, by hearing it for ourselves.
[57:48.090 --> 57:49.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let me try it one more way.
[57:49.670 --> 57:52.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're going to try a different tactic here.
[57:52.830 --> 57:56.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, we're going to try calling over here.
[57:56.750 --> 57:57.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's see if we can actually get through.
[57:58.190 --> 58:02.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: This is what you have to do sometimes when things don't work, okay?
[58:03.290 --> 58:05.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, we're on there.
[58:06.570 --> 58:10.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, let's see if we can actually get a line.
[58:13.150 --> 58:14.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, this is very exciting here.
[58:14.770 --> 58:15.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: This might actually work.
[58:17.030 --> 58:20.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: See, the problem is people keep calling in and...
[58:21.230 --> 58:22.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, we got it.
[58:23.110 --> 58:24.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, we got a line.
[58:27.920 --> 58:28.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's see what happens.
[58:35.780 --> 58:44.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: You have reached the CST-9901 test number in the Ericsson AXE-10 switch.
[58:46.020 --> 58:48.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, now, Phiber Optik, why don't you explain what that means?
[58:48.640 --> 58:53.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we'll be ready to move on into the news.
[58:54.100 --> 59:00.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it's not immediately apparent what the CST is, but it's simply an Ericsson AXE-10 switch.
[59:00.320 --> 59:05.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if it was the same one that they use for the 394 exchange.
[59:05.480 --> 59:06.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Which is?
[59:06.800 --> 59:08.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Which is an Ericsson AXE-10 switch.
[59:08.760 --> 59:09.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, no, what's the 394 exchange?
[59:09.880 --> 59:10.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, 394s.
[59:11.480 --> 59:13.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's another dial-it type service thing.
[59:13.860 --> 59:14.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[59:14.800 --> 59:16.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, well, that's...
[59:16.360 --> 59:19.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: They don't use Ericssons for anything else around here, do they?
[59:19.340 --> 59:20.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, the only thing I'm aware...
[59:20.520 --> 59:27.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: In fact, in all of New York City, I'm only aware of a single Ericsson AXE-10, and it's only in Manhattan.
[59:27.600 --> 59:29.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's used for a couple of dial-it services.
[59:29.700 --> 59:32.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: First, it was 394, and now this 910.
[59:32.760 --> 59:36.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's just a digital switch made by L.M.
[59:36.460 --> 59:36.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: Ericsson.
[59:37.180 --> 59:37.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[59:38.140 --> 59:41.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's pretty much going to do it for us here at Off the Hook this week.
[59:46.580 --> 59:51.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, as the Ericsson switch continues to make its fun little noises there.
[59:51.680 --> 59:55.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Stay tuned for the rebroadcast of the evening news next.
[59:57.380 --> 01:00:03.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Off the Hook, of course, will be back again next week, next Wednesday at 10 o'clock.
[01:00:04.120 --> 01:00:12.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's right, 10 o'clock to 11 o'clock next week, talking about all kinds of telecommunications issues and computer advances and civil liberties, freedom of speech, and whatever else.
[01:00:12.820 --> 01:00:21.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you want to write to us, our address is Off the Hook, care of WBAI, 505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
[01:00:22.460 --> 01:00:23.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: See you next week.