Off The Hook - 1993-06-02

[00:02.540 --> 00:05.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is the sixth game of the World Series, and the next game will be the seventh.
[00:06.020 --> 00:06.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yanks and Dodgers.
[00:07.060 --> 00:07.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: Who?
[00:07.740 --> 00:08.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yanks and Dodgers.
[00:08.780 --> 00:09.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: World Series.
[00:09.640 --> 00:11.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: You must have the wrong field.
[00:11.200 --> 00:15.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is a softball game between Towner and National Ads, two advertising agencies.
[00:15.560 --> 00:16.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: Nah, it's the World Series.
[00:16.980 --> 00:17.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yanks and Dodgers.
[00:17.860 --> 00:20.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yanks win and buy a run, Dodgers got a runner on first, and you're on the map.
[00:20.680 --> 00:22.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have to get back to the game.
[00:22.160 --> 00:22.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: Right, mow them down.
[00:23.040 --> 00:24.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: Show them who's boss with your blazing fastball.
[00:24.780 --> 00:25.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: I haven't seen it yet today.
[00:25.980 --> 00:27.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have to leave the field.
[00:27.460 --> 00:27.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sure.
[00:27.840 --> 00:29.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'll sit on the swings and root for you.
[00:29.160 --> 00:31.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hey, hurry up and get this game over with so I can get in.
[00:35.210 --> 00:38.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: A corporate baseball game takes on a nightmarish quality.
[00:39.050 --> 00:41.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: This week on WBAI's Radio Theater.
[00:42.130 --> 00:44.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, I'm your host, Joe Bevilacqua.
[00:44.670 --> 00:48.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: Join me for part one of For All the Marvels.
[00:48.170 --> 00:56.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's this Saturday, June 5th at 7 p.m., following Willoughby and the Professor on WBAI 99.5 FM.
[01:02.360 --> 01:08.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're listening to Non-Commercial Radio in New York, WBAI Pacifica Radio, 99.5 FM.
[01:08.700 --> 01:09.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: The time is 10 o'clock.
[01:09.860 --> 01:16.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: That means it's time for high tech and a lot of interesting things on Off the Hook.
[01:23.020 --> 01:27.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:28.420 --> 01:33.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[01:33.860 --> 01:35.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: It couldn't get much worse.
[01:38.580 --> 01:41.180]  [SPEAKER_19]: Bum-diddly-bump, but the best is back the worst.
[01:41.780 --> 01:43.680]  [SPEAKER_19]: I hope that's understood.
[01:43.920 --> 01:44.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: Bum-diddly-bump!
[02:12.050 --> 02:12.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[02:13.220 --> 02:18.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's Wednesday night again, and we're back here live with another edition of Off the Hook.
[02:19.220 --> 02:33.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: No asking for money tonight, but we are going to be taking phone calls at 212-279-3400 to kind of catch up with where our listeners have been over the past month or so, and also to thank everybody who did call and pledge during our marathon.
[02:33.540 --> 02:38.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if you made a pledge, please make sure you pay it.
[02:38.040 --> 02:41.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Making a pledge is half the step, paying it is the other half.
[02:42.820 --> 02:49.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, we have a bit of information to pass out, as we always do.
[02:49.520 --> 02:55.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: This concerns something that we've talked about before, as far as access on the Internet.
[02:55.400 --> 03:04.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have an administration now that is fairly interested in the Internet, interested actually in technology in general.
[03:04.280 --> 03:05.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: They know what the Internet is.
[03:05.440 --> 03:13.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, you can say Internet to a congressman or to a vice president and actually not get a blank stare.
[03:14.000 --> 03:16.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Of course, the last vice president, he said anything, he'd get a blank stare.
[03:16.960 --> 03:23.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: But the point is, we're moving into a period where the people in power are becoming more technically literate.
[03:23.140 --> 03:27.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: There is good in that, but there is also some worrisome parts to that.
[03:27.700 --> 03:29.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, we have to cover all bases.
[03:31.080 --> 03:35.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: There are some new addresses, and those of you that are on the Internet should know what these addresses are.
[03:38.080 --> 03:43.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you want to send an Internet message to President Clinton,
[03:52.400 --> 03:58.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: President, followed by the at sign, WhiteHouse, one word, dot G-O-V.
[04:00.400 --> 04:07.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I can't really say, you know, how good this system is just yet.
[04:07.440 --> 04:10.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it's still too new.
[04:10.360 --> 04:12.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, we can't really say that it works.
[04:12.740 --> 04:22.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: I sent a letter off yesterday asking if anybody there, not the president or the vice president, but anybody running the system would be interested in talking on the program.
[04:23.670 --> 04:30.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: I sent it to a bunch of addresses that I figured would have people attached to them.
[04:33.730 --> 04:42.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: And one of the first replies I got, what came within a few hours, this comes from MailerDemon at WhiteHouse.gov.
[04:43.000 --> 04:50.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: You have sent mail to a non-existent account on WhiteHouse.gov, presently the system is not accepting mail pending formal announcement of availability.
[04:50.640 --> 04:51.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you, the Postmaster.
[04:51.620 --> 04:54.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, the funny thing is, it has been announced.
[04:54.800 --> 04:59.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it is available, so I'm not quite sure why I got that message.
[04:59.480 --> 05:01.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: But then I got another message, a more hopeful message.
[05:01.880 --> 05:05.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: This one comes from Postmaster at WhiteHouse.gov.
[05:07.020 --> 05:12.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it says, Thank you for sending in your thoughts and comments to the president via electronic mail.
[05:12.700 --> 05:17.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: We are pleased to introduce this new form of communication into the White House for the first time in history.
[05:17.560 --> 05:19.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: I welcome your response and participation.
[05:20.620 --> 05:28.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: As we work to reinvent government and streamline our processes, this electronic mail experiment will help put us on the leading edge of progress.
[05:28.560 --> 05:31.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Please remember, though, this is still very much an experiment.
[05:32.220 --> 05:37.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Your message has been read, and we are keeping careful track of all the mail we are receiving electronically.
[05:37.920 --> 05:46.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: We will be trying out a number of response-based systems shortly, and I ask for your patience as we move forward to integrate electronic mail from the public into the White House.
[05:46.820 --> 05:53.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Again, on behalf of the president, thank you for your message and for taking part in the White House Electronic Mail Project.
[05:53.220 --> 05:57.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sincerely, Marcia Scott, Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of Correspondence.
[05:59.260 --> 06:02.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, that just made my day getting a letter from WhiteHouse.gov.
[06:04.760 --> 06:10.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, we haven't gotten an answer yet if they're going to put somebody on the air to answer questions and talk about the system.
[06:11.340 --> 06:12.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: But it's coming.
[06:12.280 --> 06:12.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know it's coming.
[06:13.380 --> 06:23.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: They've probably got about a million messages, because this hit the Internet a couple of days ago, and I'm sure everybody tried it out at least once, to see if you can actually send the message to the president.
[06:24.240 --> 06:24.720]  Well...
[06:25.500 --> 06:31.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: And as we find out more addresses, we will, of course, let you know what those addresses are and how you can use them.
[06:31.960 --> 06:38.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right now, it just seems like a way of getting a message through whether the message is actually listened to is another question entirely.
[06:39.280 --> 06:40.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Again, those addresses.
[06:40.500 --> 06:45.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: President at WhiteHouse, one word, WhiteHouse.gov.
[06:46.680 --> 06:50.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: WhiteHouse.gov, and Fiberoptic, that is a real system, is it not?
[06:50.580 --> 06:53.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: That is a real address on the net going to a real computer, yeah.
[06:54.940 --> 06:57.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, what else could it be if it wasn't a real computer?
[06:57.600 --> 07:14.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, it could be a simple UCP mail feed, whereas some name server someplace on the net would just keep a record saying that if anyone tried to send mail to that particular address, that it would just get spooled up on some computer somewhere, and then they would just go and pick it up later.
[07:15.400 --> 07:16.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: But that's an actual machine.
[07:17.300 --> 07:22.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: And for you hackers out there, you can't tell net over to it or log into it.
[07:22.400 --> 07:26.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it's restricted from everything from the outside world except for their mail port.
[07:26.320 --> 07:26.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[07:26.620 --> 07:27.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: They can only receive email.
[07:27.820 --> 07:28.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[07:28.180 --> 07:29.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can tell net to that all you want.
[07:29.520 --> 07:31.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, so if you know what to do with that, that's fine.
[07:31.860 --> 07:36.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: But you can't log in, at least not from the Internet that we know.
[07:37.680 --> 07:43.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Speaking of the Internet that we know, there's another way to access it that might interest some people.
[07:43.500 --> 07:45.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll read you a little press release here.
[07:45.340 --> 07:46.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is actually from April.
[07:46.860 --> 07:48.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's from Delmar Communications.
[07:48.940 --> 07:54.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: They've established a database, a data center, they call it, to provide free Internet connectivity to the general public.
[07:54.960 --> 07:56.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're calling it Speedway.
[07:56.380 --> 08:03.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: They've installed a large bank of V.32bis-capable modems and more will be added as usage increases.
[08:05.780 --> 08:10.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: They basically offer access to the Internet if you call them.
[08:10.540 --> 08:11.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're in Oregon.
[08:11.260 --> 08:12.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's the disadvantage to us.
[08:13.060 --> 08:13.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're in Oregon.
[08:14.260 --> 08:20.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: And once you get there, all you have to do is log in as Telnet or rlogin.
[08:22.000 --> 08:24.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: The letter R followed by the word login.
[08:24.200 --> 08:24.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: No space.
[08:25.400 --> 08:27.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that will give you access to the Internet.
[08:28.180 --> 08:31.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can simply Telnet or rlogin anywhere you want on the Internet.
[08:32.080 --> 08:34.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, there are a couple of catches here.
[08:34.880 --> 08:37.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can only use AT&T to get this service.
[08:38.400 --> 08:40.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: You have to call using AT&T.
[08:40.860 --> 08:50.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if you don't have AT&T, you must enter the AT&T calling, the AT&T carrier access code, the 10288, before you call the number.
[08:50.980 --> 08:54.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, the number is 503-520-2222.
[08:55.510 --> 08:58.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's 503-520-2222.
[08:59.710 --> 09:04.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if you call it using any other carrier, you'll get a busy signal.
[09:04.520 --> 09:08.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not quite sure how they pulled this off, but you have to use AT&T or it will not go through.
[09:10.500 --> 09:23.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, what I found rather disturbing about this was when I called it and when I connected, the very first thing I got on my screen was a message that said, for security purposes, your phone number has been recorded.
[09:24.210 --> 09:26.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, I don't quite know what that means, security purposes.
[09:26.840 --> 09:37.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Certainly not my security, but it's kind of unsettling to get a message like that as soon as you call something that you're not sure what it's all about.
[09:38.020 --> 09:39.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: But your number is recorded somewhere.
[09:40.560 --> 09:42.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: I invite people to try it out.
[09:42.840 --> 09:45.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let us know what you learned from this system.
[09:45.660 --> 09:51.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Again, the number using AT&T, which means you might have to dial 10288 first.
[09:52.080 --> 09:54.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Area code 503-520-2222.
[09:56.720 --> 09:59.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you'll get a prompt of some sort.
[09:59.980 --> 10:04.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can type Telnet or you can type rlogin and wander around the Internet to your heart's content.
[10:04.520 --> 10:10.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: But you will have to pay for a long-distance phone call to Oregon, which, late at night, I don't know how much that is.
[10:10.980 --> 10:12.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not too much, though.
[10:13.000 --> 10:14.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, if you...
[10:14.220 --> 10:24.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: If for some reason you can't get through to the carrier access code of 10288, you can always use the 800 number that AT&T offers.
[10:27.600 --> 10:31.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that number is 800-321-0-ATT.
[10:32.420 --> 10:40.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that will get you that little bong you know, the little bong you get on the telephone that says you're connected to AT&T.
[10:41.570 --> 10:43.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: We'll demonstrate that in a moment.
[10:43.900 --> 10:51.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: First, speaking of 800 numbers, we've mentioned that something has changed in regards to 800 numbers.
[10:51.360 --> 10:52.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Portability has come to town.
[10:53.400 --> 10:58.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: What that means is 800 numbers used to be defined by exchange.
[10:58.460 --> 11:04.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: In other words, if you called 800-222-0-100.
[11:06.000 --> 11:06.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's a number, right?
[11:07.200 --> 11:07.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[11:07.780 --> 11:14.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you called that, you could be pretty much assured that AT&T carried that particular phone call.
[11:14.500 --> 11:21.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's AT&T's number, but apart from that, the exchange, the entire 222 exchange, would be AT&T.
[11:22.160 --> 11:26.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, the 969 exchange, for instance, would be cable and wireless.
[11:27.480 --> 11:30.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: The 444 exchange would be MCI.
[11:30.140 --> 11:35.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you could pretty much figure out what carrier handled which 800 number based on the prefix.
[11:35.640 --> 11:36.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, that has changed.
[11:37.120 --> 11:41.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Today, any phone number can be handled by any long-distance company.
[11:41.360 --> 11:42.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's called portability.
[11:42.760 --> 11:50.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, cable and wireless, which is one of the long-distance companies, has just come out with a little newsletter for its customers.
[11:50.080 --> 11:52.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, there's something really strange about this newsletter.
[11:53.640 --> 12:07.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you hold it up to all the other newsletters that come out, New York Telephone and MCI and Sprint and all the other phone companies that put out their little customer brochures that they send with their bills, this one assumes you're intelligent.
[12:07.920 --> 12:19.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: I know a lot of customers will be insulted by that, but this is something that actually assumes you care, for one thing, and assumes you have a working knowledge of the system.
[12:20.080 --> 12:22.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll read you part of what they sent.
[12:23.300 --> 12:26.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: A comparison of how 800 numbers used to be completed.
[12:27.500 --> 12:41.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, when callers dialed an 800 number, the second three digits, in other words, digits after 800, we call that the NXX, tell the local telephone company which long-distance carrier should receive the call.
[12:42.500 --> 12:52.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Once the long-distance carrier gets the call from the local telephone company, it checks its own database to determine where the call should go and then completes the call to its destination.
[12:53.200 --> 13:08.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, now after May 1st, 1993, in other words, today, when callers dial an 800 number, the local telephone company will look up the entire 10-digit 800 number in new service control points, which are databases, located throughout the country.
[13:08.860 --> 13:14.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: The database will tell the local telephone company which long-distance carrier the customer wants to carry this 800 number.
[13:15.920 --> 13:20.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this is, by customer, we mean the person that owns the 800 number, not the person placing the call.
[13:21.180 --> 13:28.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: It is this new step of sending the entire 10-digit 800 number to the service control points that makes 800 number portability possible.
[13:29.480 --> 13:33.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: And once the long-distance carrier receives the call, it will process the call as it does today.
[13:34.720 --> 13:37.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, Fiber, is that accurate what they say?
[13:37.600 --> 13:39.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's fairly accurate, yes.
[13:39.280 --> 13:43.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, it's very unusual for you to say that something that a phone company is saying is fairly accurate.
[13:43.900 --> 13:48.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I was surprised myself upon reading it that they actually use such big words as service control point.
[13:48.700 --> 13:51.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, these people ought to be commended for putting something out like this.
[13:51.660 --> 13:59.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, cable and wireless is not really for individual mom-and-pop type people, you know, it's for businesses mostly.
[13:59.860 --> 14:06.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: But if you, you know, if you argue with them a little bit, you can probably get residential service without much of a problem.
[14:06.960 --> 14:10.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: But they are really flexible as far as most things go.
[14:10.680 --> 14:16.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: I still think they're the only providers of 800 service that allow for user programmability.
[14:16.360 --> 14:21.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: In other words, you call up and using Touch-Tones, you tell their system where you want your 800 number to go.
[14:21.520 --> 14:26.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that's something that I don't see AT&T offering, at least not for something that's simple to use.
[14:26.840 --> 14:33.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, here is a little history of 800 numbers that they also provided with this package.
[14:34.420 --> 14:39.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: 1967 to 1985 the age of no competition, they call it.
[14:39.260 --> 14:44.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: In 1967, AT&T introduced 800 service as an alternative to collect calling.
[14:44.820 --> 14:48.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: For almost two decades, they were the only carrier offering this service.
[14:48.680 --> 14:55.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: In 1985, the courts overseeing the AT&T divestiture ordered that there be some competition in the 800 marketplace.
[14:55.440 --> 15:00.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: But local telephone technology was not prepared for such a sweeping change.
[15:00.440 --> 15:09.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: So the courts implemented the plan under which we operate or did operate before May 1st called the Interim NXX Plan.
[15:10.360 --> 15:21.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: And from 1985 to May 1st, 1993, the age of limited choice I love these terminologies here.
[15:21.240 --> 15:29.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: The Interim NXX Plan the Interim NXX Plan allowed other long-distance companies like cable and wireless into the 800 market.
[15:29.720 --> 15:38.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Each long-distance company was assigned a group of unique 800-number exchanges or NXXs, the second three digits of an 800 number.
[15:38.860 --> 15:43.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Once a customer chose a long-distance company for its 800 service and was assigned a number, they were locked in.
[15:43.940 --> 15:47.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: There was no way to change carriers without changing the 800 number.
[15:48.080 --> 15:56.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: For the past few years, local telephone companies and long-distance carriers have been working to develop the advanced technologies necessary for free competition in the 800 market.
[15:56.940 --> 16:00.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: May 1st, 1993, a new age of free competition begins.
[16:01.970 --> 16:07.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: In 1991, the Federal Communications Commission ordered the implementation of 800-number portability.
[16:07.640 --> 16:17.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: This change, which took place on May 1st, began the age of freedom of choice and total competition among long-distance carriers for 800 service.
[16:17.720 --> 16:24.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's almost as stirring as the Bolshevik revolution, but we're talking about phone numbers here, really.
[16:24.880 --> 16:27.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: The new system offers redundant reliability.
[16:27.660 --> 16:37.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Though new to the processing of national 800 numbers, the technology for 800 portability has been used by some of the Bell operating companies to route local 800 calls for several years.
[16:38.120 --> 16:42.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: The system is designed to be completely reliable and redundant with backup facilities.
[16:43.120 --> 16:45.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: What a nice idea, backup facilities.
[16:45.620 --> 16:47.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: That means everything won't fall apart when there's a mistake.
[16:49.380 --> 16:57.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Cable and wireless, other long-distance companies and the Bell operating companies are testing and retesting every part of this system to ensure there is no interruption of service.
[16:58.900 --> 17:01.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: And so far, I think everything has gone okay.
[17:02.460 --> 17:13.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: So if there's anything else that you would need to know about, 800 portability uses new call processing technology called Signaling System 7 or SS7, which ultimately will decrease call connect time.
[17:13.730 --> 17:22.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Until this new technology exists throughout the National Telecommunications Network, however, a very short increase in call connect time may result on some calls.
[17:23.010 --> 17:26.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: All long-distance carriers will be affected equally by this situation.
[17:27.230 --> 17:32.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you know, they give you a couple little tips, too, on how to choose an 800 number.
[17:32.940 --> 17:33.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is kind of amusing.
[17:34.880 --> 17:39.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: They advise that you come up with an easy-to-remember seven-letter word for use with your phone number.
[17:39.730 --> 17:42.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you can't find one with seven letters, use eight letters.
[17:43.040 --> 17:45.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: The last letter means nothing when dialed anyway.
[17:46.000 --> 17:47.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it's like the S for savings.
[17:47.680 --> 17:48.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Leave it off.
[17:49.770 --> 17:54.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Provide the number as well as the letters for people that don't know where the letters are.
[17:55.540 --> 17:57.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's something that always struck me.
[17:57.800 --> 18:02.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: You ever realize that service that tells people how to read, that don't know how to read?
[18:03.000 --> 18:04.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Their 800 number is a word.
[18:05.160 --> 18:07.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, it's not a word, but it's A, B, C, D, E, F, G.
[18:07.680 --> 18:13.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, if you were completely, totally illiterate and you couldn't recognize letters, I just think it's a cruel joke to play on somebody.
[18:13.860 --> 18:16.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, uh, that's just my opinion on that.
[18:17.540 --> 18:20.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: They also advise you to avoid words that contain the letter O.
[18:20.860 --> 18:24.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: This confuses people who aren't sure whether they should dial zero or the letter O.
[18:26.100 --> 18:31.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: For that matter, I would avoid the letter I because people might dial one when that happens.
[18:31.940 --> 18:35.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: And don't use the letter Q and the letter Z because they don't exist on the phone keypad.
[18:36.750 --> 18:41.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you can't come up with a name or a saying, try to get a number that's easy to remember.
[18:41.420 --> 18:44.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: That is, a number ending with 9999 if possible.
[18:45.940 --> 18:47.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Always a popular number.
[18:48.380 --> 18:52.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, a couple of facts about, uh, 800 numbers.
[18:52.530 --> 18:57.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: The number one reason for investing in an 800 number, according to companies surveyed, is increased brand loyalty.
[18:58.030 --> 19:07.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the average call mix from customer service 800 numbers is 54% inquiries, 30% complaints, 12% new orders and promotions.
[19:08.040 --> 19:10.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: The rest are probably hackers looking for voicemail boxes.
[19:11.500 --> 19:14.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, 800 service is an American invention and phenomenon.
[19:15.320 --> 19:15.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's right.
[19:15.880 --> 19:19.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Japan toll-free calling was introduced only a couple of years ago.
[19:20.200 --> 19:21.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: So there you go.
[19:21.880 --> 19:25.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's, uh, the history of 800 numbers here as presented on Off the Hook.
[19:27.270 --> 19:30.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, uh, getting back to that AT&T service.
[19:30.320 --> 19:31.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: And by the way, we gave out the phone number before.
[19:31.820 --> 19:33.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: I want to give a little hint out to some people.
[19:34.030 --> 19:39.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, there's a lot of people in New Jersey that complain about trying to call the radio show and they let the phone ring and ring.
[19:40.120 --> 19:45.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: And since they're forced to use AT&T or some long-distance carrier, it disconnects them after a while.
[19:45.680 --> 19:46.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll try this instead.
[19:47.030 --> 19:49.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Try using New Jersey Bell.
[19:49.660 --> 19:51.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not sure if they'll disconnect you.
[19:51.180 --> 19:51.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: They might not.
[19:52.380 --> 19:57.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if they don't, that means you can let the phone ring 4,000 times or whatever until we finally get around to picking it up.
[19:58.030 --> 20:03.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you do that by dialing 1-0-N-J-B which is, uh, hold on, I can do this.
[20:04.030 --> 20:08.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: 1-0-6-5-2.
[20:08.600 --> 20:12.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: I sound like a moron, I know, but I'm looking at the phone keypad as I say this.
[20:12.340 --> 20:14.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: 1-0-6-5-2.
[20:15.080 --> 20:21.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: 1-0-N-J-B and then 2-1-2-2-7-9-3-4-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h.
[20:22.450 --> 20:26.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it's worth noting that 10-N-J-B only works in the 2-0-1 area code.
[20:26.540 --> 20:26.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[20:27.030 --> 20:27.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[20:27.500 --> 20:28.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: In the 2-0-1 area code.
[20:28.700 --> 20:30.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can try it in 9-0-8.
[20:30.140 --> 20:31.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, maybe it'll work there.
[20:31.340 --> 20:31.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I doubt it.
[20:31.800 --> 20:33.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, 9-0-8 used to be part of 2-0-1.
[20:33.580 --> 20:35.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, they're all the same indigenous people.
[20:37.270 --> 20:44.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, it's not, it's not like, it's not like the 2-0-1-6-0-9 feud that's been going on for, for centuries.
[20:46.300 --> 20:47.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, I'll never settle that.
[20:49.690 --> 20:57.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's, that's about the extent of ethnic nationalities that we have fighting each other in this country based on borders.
[20:57.080 --> 20:57.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's area codes.
[20:58.180 --> 20:59.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Area codes here, folks.
[20:59.180 --> 21:00.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's, that's all we care about.
[21:01.060 --> 21:01.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[21:01.440 --> 21:10.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, AT&T has this service, this 800 service that will allow you to get an AT&T line no matter where you are.
[21:11.340 --> 21:24.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, this is good because if you're, if you're stuck at one of those evil pay funds, and you know the kinds of evil pay funds we're talking about, the kinds where you don't know quite what it is you're dialing.
[21:25.000 --> 21:31.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it's, they're called co-cuts, customer-owned coin-operated telephones.
[21:31.680 --> 21:37.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, what they are, are alternatively owned pay funds.
[21:37.460 --> 21:40.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sometimes they don't use regular phone companies to complete calls.
[21:40.200 --> 21:45.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sometimes they're better than regular New York telephone payphones, but sometimes they're not.
[21:45.000 --> 21:59.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: And a good example is if you call something using a calling card, they will cheerfully take your AT&T calling card and use it, but charge it with another company that sometimes charges many times what AT&T will charge.
[21:59.620 --> 22:03.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: So to get around that, there are several options.
[22:03.660 --> 22:11.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can call the operator and ask the operator to connect you to AT&T or whichever phone company you want.
[22:11.260 --> 22:22.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: most times that results in a pretty hearty chuckle from that operator saying that they have no intention of doing anything of that sort and you're just left to cuss at a metallic object hanging on a wall.
[22:23.180 --> 22:25.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: The other option is to dial a carrier access code.
[22:25.980 --> 22:27.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is what they always tell you on TV.
[22:27.620 --> 22:31.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: They always say dial 10288 zero and then your phone number.
[22:32.200 --> 22:37.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's all fine and dandy if you're calling from a New York telephone payphone, but for most code cuts that does not work.
[22:37.740 --> 22:39.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Never has, probably never will.
[22:40.080 --> 22:42.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, here's a way around this.
[22:43.320 --> 22:49.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Dial an 800 number and get your AT&T bong tone that way.
[22:49.160 --> 22:52.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's see if we can get a dial tone here.
[22:53.540 --> 22:54.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, we have one.
[22:55.300 --> 22:56.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's call this 800 number.
[22:57.520 --> 23:07.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: 1-800 3-2-1 0 ATT This is not a commercial for AT&T.
[23:07.480 --> 23:10.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think if you've heard this show you'll know that for sure.
[23:12.820 --> 23:18.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: AT&T Please dial the number you are calling or 0 for an operator now.
[23:18.980 --> 23:20.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, let's do that.
[23:20.800 --> 23:26.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: About 2-1-2 2-7-9 3-4-100
[23:32.550 --> 23:37.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Please dial your card number and PIN or 0 for an operator now.
[23:37.650 --> 23:40.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, since I'm not going to dial my card number plus PIN I'm going to get an operator.
[23:41.690 --> 23:42.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: Don't worry.
[23:42.190 --> 23:43.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: AT &T Julie, how may I help you?
[23:43.650 --> 23:49.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, hi, I was wondering if you could tell me is the cost for this call the same as if I was just dialing zero plus?
[23:53.910 --> 23:58.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you're calling 2-1-2 2-2-7-9 3-4-100 Right.
[23:58.730 --> 24:00.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it's not a good number.
[24:01.310 --> 24:03.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not a good what do you mean it's not a good number?
[24:04.030 --> 24:04.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: Bronx?
[24:04.650 --> 24:05.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sorry?
[24:05.530 --> 24:06.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Are you calling the Bronx?
[24:06.770 --> 24:08.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, I'm calling Midtown Manhattan.
[24:08.570 --> 24:09.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Midtown Manhattan.
[24:09.390 --> 24:09.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[24:09.750 --> 24:11.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's coming up like an invalid number.
[24:13.310 --> 24:17.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, wait a minute, you're calling the same number you're calling from.
[24:17.770 --> 24:19.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's why it's coming up weird.
[24:19.250 --> 24:19.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[24:19.750 --> 24:26.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, you see, I'm testing this system and what I need to find out is if the cost is the same as if I desk-dialed zero plus.
[24:28.410 --> 24:35.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, how could I find out what you're calling if you put in the same number that you're calling from?
[24:35.250 --> 24:35.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: I see.
[24:35.770 --> 24:37.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: It probably wasn't a good choice to do that then.
[24:37.850 --> 24:39.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: What number would you be calling?
[24:39.610 --> 24:45.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, could you just tell me is there any kind of surcharge for using the 800 number instead of doing zero plus if I'm at a weird payphone or something?
[24:48.450 --> 24:57.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: The best thing to do is to try dialing it direct using the access code 10288 and then zero area code and number.
[24:57.890 --> 25:10.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: If that doesn't work, if you have to use the access code with the 800 number, let the operator know that you tried dialing it direct and you wanted to bill it to your calling card so that you would get the direct dial rate.
[25:10.990 --> 25:16.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because if you don't say anything, then we do give you, you know, we have to charge you a surcharge.
[25:16.670 --> 25:17.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, how much is that surcharge?
[25:18.070 --> 25:19.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's a dollar.
[25:19.590 --> 25:23.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's if we just use the AT&T 800 number and don't say anything.
[25:23.850 --> 25:24.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[25:24.590 --> 25:24.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[25:25.310 --> 25:26.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, that's important to know then.
[25:27.170 --> 25:28.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, thank you very much for your help.
[25:28.650 --> 25:28.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[25:29.110 --> 25:30.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because you want to save money.
[25:30.290 --> 25:31.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, that's the point of it all.
[25:32.070 --> 25:32.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[25:32.990 --> 25:33.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, thank you very much.
[25:34.210 --> 25:36.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'd be glad to place a call for you.
[25:37.010 --> 25:39.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, well, if I consider making one later, I'll get back in touch with you.
[25:39.830 --> 25:40.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you so much.
[25:40.230 --> 25:40.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[25:41.530 --> 25:41.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wow.
[25:42.650 --> 25:44.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: I could have talked to her all night long, I suppose.
[25:46.130 --> 25:47.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: For a while there, I didn't think we were
[25:52.730 --> 25:54.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: and I just wanted to know, is there a surcharge?
[25:54.750 --> 25:55.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes or no?
[25:55.270 --> 25:55.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Tell me.
[25:55.670 --> 25:56.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: And there is a surcharge.
[25:56.870 --> 25:57.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't know that.
[25:58.050 --> 25:59.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: I guess it makes sense.
[25:59.470 --> 26:01.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: But if you tell the operators, it's very important.
[26:01.550 --> 26:04.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: Of course, you can't use the automated system and you tie up more people.
[26:04.490 --> 26:12.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: But if you tell the operator that you're at one of these weird payphones and it won't let you dial 10288, then they won't charge you a surcharge.
[26:12.870 --> 26:13.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: So that
[26:23.370 --> 26:23.850]  pledge...
[26:23.850 --> 26:29.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: Actually, I should use that line for when we're asking for money, but let's consider it if you didn't pledge something.
[26:30.210 --> 26:35.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, here's something from a listener who sent this in from New Jersey, and I want to thank them very much.
[26:36.350 --> 26:44.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a page from a New Jersey Bell Atlantic Company phone bill from the 908 area code.
[26:45.250 --> 26:48.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Enhancement to directory assistance is available now.
[26:48.290 --> 26:59.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: An optional directory assistance service is now available on your line after requesting a number from directory assistance you can automatically have that call completed with the touch of a button.
[27:00.290 --> 27:00.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's right.
[27:01.070 --> 27:07.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: Connect request service is what they call it over there and connect request service will dial that call just by pressing 1.
[27:08.990 --> 27:10.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just by pressing 1.
[27:11.210 --> 27:11.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: Amazing.
[27:13.470 --> 27:18.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: If the call you requested is answered you will be charged an additional 30 cents.
[27:18.870 --> 27:21.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: There is no monthly service charge for connect request service.
[27:21.870 --> 27:23.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: Isn't that wonderful?
[27:23.250 --> 27:26.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: No monthly service charge but just a 30 cent per call charge.
[27:27.350 --> 27:29.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: We live in the greatest country in the world don't we?
[27:30.070 --> 27:34.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: However, all connect request service calls are subject to all applicable charges as appropriate.
[27:34.670 --> 27:36.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's right, you have to pay for the call as well.
[27:36.810 --> 27:41.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: Connect request service is available for most calls in your New Jersey regional calling area.
[27:41.570 --> 27:47.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: The directory assistance announcement will let you know if the call you have requested can be completed with connect request service.
[27:48.270 --> 27:51.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can request to have this service restricted from your line.
[27:51.650 --> 27:54.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: The first time you ask to have this service blocked, there will be no charge.
[27:54.890 --> 27:57.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: After that, the sky is the limit.
[27:59.710 --> 28:02.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was called Enhancement to Directory Assistance.
[28:02.030 --> 28:07.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: Our listener retitled that another way of enhancing revenue.
[28:08.610 --> 28:09.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's certainly true.
[28:10.730 --> 28:13.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'd like to demonstrate one other thing too.
[28:13.430 --> 28:15.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not sure how this is going to turn out, to be honest.
[28:15.770 --> 28:19.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'd like to sort of try this and see if it works.
[28:19.330 --> 28:26.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's get an information operator, a local information operator, and see if see if that service exists here.
[28:26.510 --> 28:31.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: But also, there's something else that happened to me this week, and I want to see if it's something that happens a lot.
[28:32.270 --> 28:37.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: If it's a new policy, and if it is, it'll be revealed right here, right now.
[28:37.190 --> 28:38.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: New York City information.
[28:39.130 --> 28:42.180]  May I help you?
[28:42.860 --> 28:43.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, hello.
[28:43.520 --> 28:46.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: I need the number for WBAI, please.
[28:46.860 --> 28:47.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: Thank you.
[28:47.480 --> 28:48.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: Tricky Manhattan.
[28:48.260 --> 28:48.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: Call for your number.
[28:49.020 --> 28:49.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[28:49.540 --> 28:51.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: Thank you for calling New York Telephone.
[28:51.860 --> 28:55.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: The number is 279-0-7-0-7-0.
[28:57.740 --> 28:58.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's our office line.
[28:59.360 --> 29:02.020]  [SPEAKER_17]: 9-0-7-0-7.
[29:03.840 --> 29:04.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Aha.
[29:04.860 --> 29:05.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did you hear that?
[29:07.820 --> 29:08.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sorry, repeat that?
[29:09.180 --> 29:09.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Clunk.
[29:09.740 --> 29:10.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Clunk.
[29:10.140 --> 29:10.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's right.
[29:10.760 --> 29:11.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Clunk.
[29:11.540 --> 29:14.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, something has changed here.
[29:15.220 --> 29:16.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Something is different.
[29:16.960 --> 29:18.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: What is missing?
[29:18.660 --> 29:19.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: What is missing from this picture?
[29:20.180 --> 29:27.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do you remember a recording that used to say, if you need further instructions, please stay on the line and an operator will help you.
[29:27.780 --> 29:29.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: They don't do that anymore.
[29:29.380 --> 29:31.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, this just happened.
[29:31.200 --> 29:34.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: This just started happening within the past week.
[29:34.260 --> 29:36.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't recall any public service commission hearings.
[29:36.700 --> 29:37.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't recall any announcements.
[29:37.800 --> 29:40.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: This was snuck under the door somehow.
[29:41.060 --> 29:47.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, this is something that I don't think we should be tolerating because if you need a second number, they would give you a second number.
[29:47.380 --> 29:49.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you needed an address, they would give you an address.
[29:49.360 --> 29:57.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you didn't get the number or if the recording misplayed or something like that, or if they played you the wrong name or the wrong number, you could always ask an operator for assistance.
[29:57.900 --> 29:59.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: And now, that's been taken away from us as well.
[30:00.420 --> 30:06.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you need to ask a follow-up question, you have to, uh, you have to call all over again.
[30:06.660 --> 30:07.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Start from the beginning.
[30:07.420 --> 30:09.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Even presidential press conferences give you a follow-up.
[30:11.400 --> 30:12.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not New York Telephone.
[30:13.080 --> 30:25.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, friends, call in, complain, write your legislators, write the PSC, call the PSC, call phone company executives, make posters, banners, rent buses, and, you know, do various things like that.
[30:26.280 --> 30:28.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, maybe, maybe we can get this changed.
[30:28.640 --> 30:30.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we'll look into it some more on our end as well.
[30:31.520 --> 30:35.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, we're going to take a short break and come back with listener phone calls as well as other things.
[30:35.580 --> 30:41.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, but before we do, I'd just like to read a quote that I found the other day.
[30:41.940 --> 30:45.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is something I think we should all bear in mind.
[30:47.700 --> 30:50.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: country, two very large monopolies.
[30:51.460 --> 30:54.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: The larger of the two had the following record.
[30:54.880 --> 31:04.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: The Vietnam War, Watergate, double-digit inflation, fuel and energy shortages, bankrupt airlines, and the eight-cent postcard.
[31:10.240 --> 31:15.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: As it's only a normal sign,
[31:39.000 --> 31:54.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: it doesn't really matter what clothes I wear or how I wear or if my hair is brown, when it's only a normal sign.
[31:57.270 --> 32:14.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you think the harmony Is a little dark and out of peace You're correct There's nobody there
[32:21.410 --> 32:30.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I know somebody's out there and if you're out there give us a call 212-279-3400 We're taking phone calls.
[32:32.450 --> 32:34.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, there's lots of people here.
[32:34.850 --> 32:48.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: 212-279-3400 This item that you may not have heard about in the newspapers about computer hackers, two computer hackers given six-month prison sentences recently in England.
[32:49.030 --> 32:57.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: They were the first to be jailed under legislation passed in 1990 to outlaw the practice.
[32:57.970 --> 33:03.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: They call it a practice as if it's something that people sit around in smoky rooms and plan out.
[33:05.160 --> 33:07.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, computer hacking is kind of like breathing.
[33:07.230 --> 33:08.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: It just sort of happens.
[33:10.230 --> 33:18.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: Neil Woods and Carl Strickland 24 and 22 years of age respectively had pleaded guilty to the offenses.
[33:18.830 --> 33:33.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: In March Paul Bedworth a Yorkshire schoolboy who regularly communicated with Woods and Strickland and was arrested at the same time was cleared of similar charges by a jury after a 15-day trial.
[33:34.970 --> 33:39.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: He had pleaded not guilty and claimed that he had become addicted to hacking.
[33:44.150 --> 33:51.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: All three were trapped by sophisticated police and British telecom tracking in several countries.
[33:52.310 --> 33:53.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's all too much, isn't it?
[33:55.550 --> 34:06.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: Before the 1990 Computer Misuse Act those who gained access to other people's computer networks had to be prosecuted for causing damage or stealing information.
[34:06.910 --> 34:17.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: But in the case which ended recently the judge accepted that the accused had not been intending to cause damage and had not profited in any way.
[34:23.110 --> 34:32.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sentencing the two graduates at Southwark Crown Court Judge Michael Harris said this No, no, he didn't say that.
[34:32.130 --> 34:42.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: He said, I have to mark your conduct with prison sentences both to penalize you for what you have done and for the losses caused and to deter others who might be similarly tempted.
[34:43.970 --> 34:48.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: The offenses were committed over three years before and after the 1990 Act was passed.
[34:49.710 --> 35:11.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: Strickland, a research assistant at Liverpool University and Woods of Chatterton Oldham Greater Manchester a computer salesman and computer science graduate from Manchester University pleaded guilty and this is what they pleaded guilty to conspiring to obtain telegraphic services dishonestly and engaging in the unauthorized publication of computer information.
[35:12.990 --> 35:15.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well friends, I think I'm guilty of that.
[35:15.790 --> 35:20.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: At least it depends on what you mean by unauthorized publication of computer information.
[35:20.290 --> 35:28.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: If it means publishing something that some company thinks is a secret well that's that's called freedom of the press.
[35:28.730 --> 35:30.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: Of course, England is the last place to look for that.
[35:31.930 --> 35:39.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Woods also admitted causing 15,000 pounds of damage to a computer owned by the then Polytechnic of central London.
[35:39.250 --> 35:43.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: Of course, damage can be defined in many different ways.
[35:43.350 --> 35:50.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: Simply having to change a password has been defined by phone companies in this country as damage amounting to several thousand dollars.
[35:51.630 --> 36:00.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: The two accused did not meet until after their arrests in June 1991, so much for a conspiracy, although they spoke on screen under their codenames.
[36:01.550 --> 36:05.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Among hackers, Woods was known as Pad and Strickland was known as Gandalf.
[36:06.310 --> 36:08.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: And Gandalf is the wizard in Lord of the Rings.
[36:09.290 --> 36:11.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're real hardened criminals, you can tell by the nicknames they choose.
[36:12.210 --> 36:25.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: Using personal computers at home, they were frequent illegal users of a BT network, British Telecom network called PSS, and a system known as Janet, which linked academic institutions throughout Britain.
[36:26.830 --> 36:30.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, it's sad to think of these people going to jail for exploring a computer system.
[36:30.430 --> 36:32.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's really all I see them having done here.
[36:34.730 --> 36:38.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: And British Telecom is something that just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
[36:38.770 --> 36:40.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know if people heard the news today.
[36:40.290 --> 36:42.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: They bought 20% of MCI today.
[36:43.270 --> 36:48.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: That means TimeNet and MCI are going to be linked together in holy matrimony.
[36:48.670 --> 36:55.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's going to be holy terror for a lot of us when monopolies keep meeting each other and getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
[36:57.790 --> 37:06.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can say there's competition and not really monopolies, but ask a small telecommunications company if there aren't monopolies out there.
[37:08.990 --> 37:14.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: The judge finished by saying if your passion had been cars rather than computers we would have called your conduct delinquent.
[37:14.870 --> 37:18.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't shrink from the analogy of describing what you were doing as intellectual joy riding.
[37:19.370 --> 37:23.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: There may be people out there who consider hacking to be harmless, but hacking is not harmless.
[37:24.470 --> 37:33.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: Computers now form a central role in our lives containing personal details, financial details, confidential matters of companies and government departments and many business organizations.
[37:35.290 --> 37:41.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: He said that hackers needed to be given a clear signal by the courts that their activities will not and cannot be tolerated.
[37:41.610 --> 37:47.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they also claim in England that the amount of hacking has gone down dramatically as a result of this.
[37:48.390 --> 37:50.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: I find that hard to believe.
[38:04.960 --> 38:12.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: any time you send a signal like that, you know, it just sort of bounces around, but it never really sinks in because it goes against common sense.
[38:13.380 --> 38:22.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can't tell people to stop asking questions, to stop exploring, to stop looking for alternatives, figuring out how it all works.
[38:23.460 --> 38:30.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Lots of times you have to walk on somebody else's lawn to get somewhere, as long as you don't rip it to pieces.
[38:32.280 --> 38:36.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're not talking about a massive amount of damage or any damage at all.
[38:38.140 --> 38:39.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: 212-279-3400.
[38:39.900 --> 38:41.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're going to take some phone calls now.
[38:50.320 --> 38:51.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: WBAI, you're on the air.
[38:55.550 --> 38:56.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, that's great.
[38:57.010 --> 38:58.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: WBAI, you're on the air.
[38:58.370 --> 38:58.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, hello.
[38:58.970 --> 38:59.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: How are you doing?
[38:59.590 --> 38:59.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi.
[39:00.450 --> 39:04.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm glad you were talking about 800 numbers earlier, because that's what my call is about.
[39:05.030 --> 39:05.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[39:06.970 --> 39:14.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: What's interesting is I remember several weeks ago you were talking about how the 800 number companies automatically get your phone number?
[39:14.870 --> 39:16.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's right, using A&I.
[39:17.590 --> 39:29.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so now, in terms of, I guess you've seen the ads on the television for these, they have, they have now the, I guess their adult entertainment line that are 800 numbers.
[39:30.750 --> 39:31.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's right.
[39:31.830 --> 39:33.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because they call you back.
[39:33.590 --> 39:37.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: They call you back and make it seem as if you've just got a collect call.
[39:38.090 --> 39:38.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[39:38.770 --> 39:50.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: Which is a rather shady thing, especially if, you know, if you've blocked 900 numbers from your line because you don't want to have calls like that show up on your phone bill and your kid calls an 800 number and it calls you back collect.
[39:51.150 --> 39:51.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[39:51.570 --> 39:52.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, how do you avoid something like that?
[39:52.970 --> 39:53.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[39:54.310 --> 40:05.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: And now there's a comp, now the company that I have found is the main company or that does this or at least it's the name of the company that appears on your bill is Integratel.
[40:05.390 --> 40:07.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, Integratel is a billing agent, okay?
[40:07.770 --> 40:11.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: They claim that they don't actually run these things and they don't actually run these things.
[40:11.710 --> 40:24.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: They handle the billing, but that doesn't absolve them from guilt because if you handle billing for slimeballs, well, that sort of puts you in league with them in a moral sense of nothing else.
[40:24.930 --> 40:30.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: So they certainly deserve your wrath if you come up with these $1,000 phone bills that you don't believe you owe.
[40:31.490 --> 40:31.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[40:33.750 --> 40:34.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you...
[40:34.710 --> 40:38.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, now, what is their connection with New York Telephone?
[40:39.230 --> 40:39.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because...
[40:39.710 --> 40:40.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: There is none.
[40:40.430 --> 40:41.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: No connection at all.
[40:42.010 --> 40:51.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: It shows up on the New York Telephone bill, but you'll see on the top of that page, it will say there is no connection between this phone company and New York Telephone or whatever your local phone company is.
[40:51.730 --> 40:54.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: What happens if you don't pay the Integratel part of the bill?
[40:55.030 --> 40:56.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, now, that's the interesting thing.
[40:56.450 --> 41:00.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Different things happen depending on various stages of the moon, I think.
[41:00.670 --> 41:02.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: What is supposed to happen...
[41:02.510 --> 41:04.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, what happens with 900 numbers?
[41:04.190 --> 41:04.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's cover that first.
[41:04.910 --> 41:16.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you don't pay a 900 part of your bill, in many cases, it will just simply be taken off your bill and they'll say, you know, 900 people, you deal with the customer yourself, it's out of our hands.
[41:16.430 --> 41:19.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: New York Telephone or whatever the local company is will not deal with it.
[41:19.370 --> 41:22.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: Actually, I'm not sure if New York Telephone does handle it that way, but I do know some companies do.
[41:23.950 --> 41:27.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, with long distance companies, however, it's slightly different.
[41:27.970 --> 41:30.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: They treat it as it's one lump payment.
[41:30.890 --> 41:41.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, if you owe AT&T, if you owe Integratel, if you owe MCI, and it shows up on that bill, it's the New York Telephone bill, and they'll keep billing you month after month after month until they hear otherwise from that company.
[41:42.450 --> 41:45.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you're just saying Integratel is like a long distance company.
[41:45.510 --> 41:46.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: It is, yes.
[41:47.550 --> 41:54.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, what they do, what Integratel does, and I've had experience with just about all of these companies, they won't take it off your bill.
[41:54.430 --> 42:03.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: They'll simply mail you a voucher, and you're supposed to mail that voucher in with your phone bill, and then you take that off your next phone bill.
[42:03.510 --> 42:04.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: But you have to keep track.
[42:04.730 --> 42:07.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, you call them up, and they usually take it off right away.
[42:07.570 --> 42:08.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: What do you mean take it off?
[42:08.770 --> 42:20.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: They say, okay, you know, if you got like a $10 phone call from somewhere, a collect phone call that you don't think you deserve, they'll say, okay, we'll take that off your bill, we'll mail you a voucher.
[42:20.630 --> 42:25.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: But you have to remember that you have a voucher coming to you, because the phone company isn't going to do anything about it.
[42:25.310 --> 42:29.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're not going to deduct $10 from your phone bill, because Integratel works in a weird kind of way.
[42:29.370 --> 42:32.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: They have to send you a voucher, and you have to do the right thing with the voucher.
[42:32.710 --> 42:35.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: You have to submit it with your next phone bill.
[42:35.510 --> 42:42.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: So if you want to dispute any of these calls, you have to do it like on an individual basis of every collect call that came in.
[42:42.910 --> 42:50.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, well, I mean, if you say, I don't accept collect calls, or I didn't accept any collect calls on that day, the discussion should pretty much end there.
[42:51.090 --> 42:51.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[42:51.930 --> 42:55.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you can also ask to have your number blocked from accepting collect calls.
[42:55.390 --> 43:01.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: Although, unfortunately, I don't believe there's a technology in place to selectively block from certain long-distance companies.
[43:01.870 --> 43:04.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: I would like to see that, but I don't believe it exists.
[43:04.630 --> 43:11.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: You ever heard of examples where mistakes are made, and they send unsolicited collect calls to somebody?
[43:11.690 --> 43:11.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[43:12.250 --> 43:13.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, you haven't heard of Oh, yes.
[43:13.450 --> 43:14.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: It happens all the time.
[43:15.030 --> 43:22.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: These are computers that work here, and there's people programming the computers, and if you saw the people that were programming the computers, you'd realize that anything is possible.
[43:22.450 --> 43:22.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[43:22.930 --> 43:26.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean that in a negative way, even though I've said the exact same thing in a positive way before.
[43:26.930 --> 43:27.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[43:27.470 --> 43:30.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: So even if they have a record on their computers, they could be mistaken.
[43:31.750 --> 43:31.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, sure.
[43:32.130 --> 43:33.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, the computer is not always right.
[43:33.770 --> 43:33.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[43:34.250 --> 43:43.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, New York Telephone has gotten it wrong where they say that you made a call from your house, but they're wrong, because nobody was there, and people can prove that.
[43:43.870 --> 43:44.090]  Uh-huh.
[43:44.130 --> 43:46.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: So they have made computer errors, and they always will.
[43:47.270 --> 43:47.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[43:47.850 --> 43:48.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, now this is good.
[43:48.990 --> 43:50.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so, um...
[43:50.030 --> 43:51.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: How much are we talking about on your bill here?
[43:51.930 --> 43:53.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, a few hundred.
[43:53.230 --> 43:53.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: A few hundred dollars.
[43:53.990 --> 43:54.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: For how many calls?
[43:56.170 --> 43:56.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't...
[43:56.930 --> 43:57.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: I couldn't tell you right now.
[43:58.090 --> 43:59.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, not that many calls, so...
[43:59.750 --> 44:01.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: A dozen or so.
[44:01.230 --> 44:06.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, in almost all cases, they let you off completely the first time.
[44:06.230 --> 44:06.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, really?
[44:06.670 --> 44:07.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, in almost all cases.
[44:08.130 --> 44:08.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's the first time.
[44:09.010 --> 44:17.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if you're not a business, I don't think you have anything to worry about, because businesses have to block their own phone systems, and they're completely responsible, but residences are not.
[44:18.530 --> 44:32.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, then, you see, Integratel has told me over the phone, over their 800 line, that you have to talk to or write to the individual companies companies that appear on the bill that handle each individual number.
[44:32.810 --> 44:34.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, it's not up to you to do that.
[44:34.330 --> 44:36.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: You tell Integratel, take this off my bill.
[44:36.750 --> 44:37.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, really?
[44:37.230 --> 44:37.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: Period.
[44:37.710 --> 44:37.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[44:38.330 --> 44:39.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: I did not make these calls.
[44:39.790 --> 44:40.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: These calls are not mine.
[44:40.970 --> 44:41.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: Get them off the bill.
[44:42.250 --> 44:46.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: If they continue to harass you, then threaten to go higher than that.
[44:46.850 --> 44:52.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: The Federal Communications Commission, for instance, your State Public Service Commission, they both can have some impact here.
[44:58.990 --> 45:03.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, your phone bills can be bombs waiting to go off.
[45:03.910 --> 45:11.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: I always feel this sense of dread when the phone bill comes, you know, because there's always something in there that's a surprise, you know?
[45:11.310 --> 45:18.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: I talked last week a little bit about how I was pursuing the phone company to make these changes to my line that I've been asking for for months.
[45:19.130 --> 45:24.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, they finally, after I sticked the Public Service Commission on them, they finally made a couple of the changes, not all of them.
[45:24.610 --> 45:35.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: They made a couple, they made a valiant effort to program their computers properly, but still, even after that, even after another week, with the Public Service Commission breathing down their necks, they still did not do 100% of it.
[45:36.770 --> 45:37.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: So I don't know.
[45:37.830 --> 45:42.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: This may be impossible, but we're going to try it again, and I'll report back next week.
[45:42.610 --> 45:43.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening, you're on the radio.
[45:43.970 --> 45:44.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, hello.
[45:44.870 --> 45:46.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, let me turn down the...
[45:47.450 --> 45:58.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: Listen, I had the same problem, but this time on the bill was a small, single call to a far away place, and next to the charge it says operator-assisted.
[45:59.190 --> 45:59.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[46:00.190 --> 46:06.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, you know, I called about that, and, you know, there wasn't anybody home and all that, and they were going to find out where this far away place was.
[46:06.370 --> 46:07.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: What company are we talking about?
[46:07.730 --> 46:08.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: AT&T.
[46:08.410 --> 46:09.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: AT&T, okay.
[46:09.930 --> 46:16.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: And so, a long time ago, years ago, I had like one of these funny problems with obviously stray calls, and it took all that off.
[46:16.630 --> 46:24.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: But this time it was like, you know, operator-assisted, somebody physically made the call from the premises seemed to be the implication.
[46:24.870 --> 46:26.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, there's several ways that can be done.
[46:26.630 --> 46:27.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do you live in an apartment?
[46:27.690 --> 46:30.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, it's just me, although, you know, who knows?
[46:30.490 --> 46:31.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: You live in a house?
[46:31.310 --> 46:31.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah.
[46:31.990 --> 46:36.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, well, there still are various places that you can tap into a line on the pole.
[46:37.090 --> 46:39.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: It could have been a lineman for New York Telephone.
[46:39.130 --> 46:43.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: It could have been somebody clipping onto the side of your house, somebody down at the central office.
[46:43.290 --> 46:43.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: I see.
[46:43.750 --> 46:49.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: And sometimes the phone company routes lines into other people's houses by mistake, and a phone rings.
[46:49.350 --> 46:54.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: This has happened to me several times, where phone rings, and people pick it up simultaneously in different houses.
[46:55.350 --> 46:55.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, wow.
[46:56.150 --> 46:56.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[46:56.430 --> 47:00.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: So if they can make that kind of a mistake, of course you can get a stray phone call on your bill.
[47:00.970 --> 47:01.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[47:01.690 --> 47:02.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: Can I ask you one other?
[47:02.870 --> 47:03.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.
[47:03.110 --> 47:04.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: Because I really find this fascinating.
[47:04.610 --> 47:04.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[47:06.070 --> 47:12.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: You could drop the long-distance company and still have a phone in your house to work that you could pick up and, you know, call the police or something?
[47:13.230 --> 47:13.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or do you have...
[47:13.990 --> 47:14.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sure.
[47:14.330 --> 47:26.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can select none as your long-distance carrier, and that's actually a good thing for some people that have kids that make long-distance phone calls that aren't too technically literate that won't be able to figure out the dial-carrier access code.
[47:27.310 --> 47:30.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: In other words, you have to dial a carrier access code to make a long-distance call.
[47:30.410 --> 47:30.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Got it.
[47:30.770 --> 47:30.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[47:31.050 --> 47:31.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's good.
[47:31.670 --> 47:31.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[47:31.950 --> 47:33.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I'll take just one final thing because I really love this.
[47:33.990 --> 47:43.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, one of the things we're dealing with it, even though it's such a nuisance and I do, in a way, have the dread of the bill because you never know, these are wonderful technologies.
[47:43.510 --> 47:44.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, they do amazing things.
[47:44.770 --> 47:45.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: They certainly are.
[47:45.870 --> 47:48.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know you appreciate that part, too.
[47:48.770 --> 47:54.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, they're great things in the hands of people that can shape them to meet their needs.
[47:54.390 --> 47:59.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: In the hands of corporations that just tell you how they want you to use them, they can be horrible tools for oppression.
[48:00.130 --> 48:05.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hands-on access.
[48:05.950 --> 48:06.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what it's all about.
[48:06.870 --> 48:07.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[48:07.130 --> 48:07.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks for calling.
[48:07.650 --> 48:08.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Very much.
[48:08.190 --> 48:08.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[48:09.130 --> 48:09.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's go to another phone call.
[48:10.150 --> 48:10.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[48:10.630 --> 48:11.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on Off the Hook.
[48:11.450 --> 48:12.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, good evening.
[48:12.270 --> 48:12.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: How are you doing?
[48:13.190 --> 48:13.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good.
[48:13.530 --> 48:15.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: I really enjoy your show.
[48:15.550 --> 48:15.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
[48:16.310 --> 48:21.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: More bad news, though, about local New York City information.
[48:22.270 --> 48:25.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's another thing that has changed in the last couple of days.
[48:26.630 --> 48:41.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: When you call and ask for a number that happens to be a non-published number, in the old days, or until a few days ago, the operator herself or himself would have told you that it was a non-published number and offered you credit.
[48:41.770 --> 48:42.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[48:42.090 --> 48:43.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: They'd ask for your phone number.
[48:43.090 --> 48:43.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[48:43.650 --> 48:44.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: No more.
[48:44.210 --> 48:44.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's gone, too.
[48:44.990 --> 48:47.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: You just get a recording that says the number is unpublished.
[48:47.590 --> 48:47.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Chunk.
[48:48.490 --> 48:48.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: No.
[48:48.910 --> 48:56.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: You get a recording that says the number is unpublished, and that if you live in the local area and want credit for this call, you have to call back.
[48:57.810 --> 48:58.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wait a minute.
[48:59.150 --> 48:59.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wait a minute.
[48:59.810 --> 49:02.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: You have to call again and pay another 40 cents to get...
[49:02.430 --> 49:03.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, you could be doing that forever.
[49:04.750 --> 49:05.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: Isn't that right?
[49:05.530 --> 49:07.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's a great way to keep people busy, but...
[49:07.870 --> 49:13.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: So that means you have to be ambitious enough to dial either 411 or 555-1212.
[49:13.110 --> 49:19.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm going to actually take the time after the show to call and ask for an unlisted number that I know and see if that happens.
[49:19.430 --> 49:22.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if it does happen, there's going to be some letters written, I can tell you that.
[49:23.230 --> 49:24.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is getting something silly.
[49:24.850 --> 49:25.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is...
[49:25.270 --> 49:26.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just in the last few days, this change.
[49:27.130 --> 49:30.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: The operator says hold the number just like she's giving you a regular number.
[49:30.850 --> 49:31.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[49:31.670 --> 49:41.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Except you get this long recording saying, you know, unlisted, and if you are in the New York City area or the local area, call back for credit.
[49:42.130 --> 49:42.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[49:42.750 --> 49:48.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, this is also a big problem because a lot of times when you call directory assistants, the number isn't enough.
[49:48.830 --> 49:50.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: They can give you the address as well.
[49:50.610 --> 49:51.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this is not a secret.
[49:51.850 --> 49:52.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: They can do this.
[49:52.690 --> 49:56.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, how do you address after they give you the number if it hangs up?
[49:56.530 --> 49:56.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: Absolutely.
[49:56.870 --> 49:57.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's impossible.
[49:57.370 --> 49:58.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that's part of their service.
[49:58.810 --> 49:59.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they're providing less service.
[50:00.450 --> 50:01.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: And information used to be free.
[50:02.050 --> 50:04.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: At these cold cuts, sometimes they charge 50 cents for this.
[50:04.790 --> 50:05.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[50:05.510 --> 50:15.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, now, one thing that the cold cuts have done recently that I think that the Public Service Commission has actually been able to get them to do is provide free information, local information, that is.
[50:15.350 --> 50:15.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[50:15.770 --> 50:17.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, that should work.
[50:17.650 --> 50:20.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: If it doesn't work, then something's wrong, or they should have a phone book attached to it.
[50:24.570 --> 50:27.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I've been asked for $9.95 for an 800 number, too.
[50:28.030 --> 50:29.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: When that happens, call the Public Service Commission.
[50:30.570 --> 50:38.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I recently made a collect call from a cold cut, just, you know, a fairly local collect call, and was charged about $10 for it.
[50:38.350 --> 50:40.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, that's a big mistake to ever do that.
[50:40.350 --> 50:40.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I know.
[50:41.070 --> 50:41.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: That'll never happen again.
[50:42.010 --> 50:42.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[50:42.830 --> 50:44.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: See that it doesn't, and thanks for calling.
[50:54.950 --> 50:55.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: Live and Learn.
[50:56.210 --> 50:56.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[50:57.850 --> 50:58.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hello?
[50:58.470 --> 50:58.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, go ahead.
[50:58.950 --> 50:59.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on.
[50:59.650 --> 51:00.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, good.
[51:01.390 --> 51:05.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: I got a check in the mail yesterday from AT&T.
[51:07.130 --> 51:08.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: They want me back, it seems.
[51:10.230 --> 51:11.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: They do, huh?
[51:11.410 --> 51:11.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[51:12.050 --> 51:13.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: The check is to the tune of $75.
[51:14.470 --> 51:14.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: Really?
[51:15.710 --> 51:31.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it says, go ahead, take this check, deposit it, put it in the bank, you must sign it by hand, use your little endorsement stamp, and underneath the signature it says, I authorize that my phone number should be changed back to AT&T.
[51:31.410 --> 51:31.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[51:32.410 --> 51:35.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Nowhere on the letter does it say how long I have to leave it.
[51:35.770 --> 51:38.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, then that means you can change it back next month.
[51:38.890 --> 51:43.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: But you will have to pay a $5 fee to your local phone company, but you'll still be ahead $70.
[51:43.890 --> 51:45.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's what it sounded like to me.
[51:45.610 --> 51:46.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: I couldn't believe it.
[51:46.490 --> 51:58.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you know, I would suggest trying it out and see if you can actually do that, because if it doesn't say anywhere in the letter, read it carefully, get a telescope or a microscope, rather than just make sure that there's nothing there and make sure that you're in the right.
[51:58.670 --> 52:00.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if there's nothing on the letter, you can do that, certainly.
[52:00.910 --> 52:02.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: But you will be faced with a $5 charge.
[52:02.930 --> 52:09.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: Actually, you'll be faced with two $5 charges when you go to AT&T the first time and when you go back, if you go back.
[52:10.310 --> 52:10.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[52:10.910 --> 52:11.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[52:11.310 --> 52:12.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, I probably would.
[52:13.670 --> 52:14.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, yeah, that's interesting.
[52:15.630 --> 52:20.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: What do you hear about, what do you know about the 1-800-COLLECT?
[52:20.990 --> 52:21.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Have you seen ads for those?
[52:22.150 --> 52:23.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, we featured that last week, actually.
[52:23.890 --> 52:25.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's an MCI-offered product.
[52:26.410 --> 52:27.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's interesting, though.
[52:27.210 --> 52:28.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: On television, they don't say it's MCI.
[52:28.970 --> 52:29.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know why that is.
[52:30.130 --> 52:31.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: But it is MCI.
[52:31.250 --> 52:32.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you call them, you get a human.
[52:32.870 --> 52:35.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: You don't get a computer, and they will put a collect call through for you.
[52:36.310 --> 52:38.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: But it's more expensive than making a local phone call.
[52:38.530 --> 52:39.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: I should caution you about that.
[52:40.150 --> 52:46.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but they claim to be the lowest-cost collect service.
[52:46.350 --> 52:46.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not local.
[52:47.590 --> 52:48.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, local.
[52:48.510 --> 52:50.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't think they beat local prices.
[52:52.150 --> 52:53.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't think they do.
[52:53.130 --> 52:58.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you know if the number you called before, the AT&T number, was that...
[52:58.050 --> 53:02.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was trying to understand that you and the operator, I think you were talking about two different things.
[53:02.650 --> 53:03.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I think so.
[53:03.190 --> 53:04.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: It happens a lot when I talk to operators.
[53:05.050 --> 53:19.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it sounded to me as though that the surcharge wasn't because you were using the 800 number versus dialing, but it was using any operator assisted call rather than dialing, you know, one plus.
[53:19.250 --> 53:23.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's a possibility, but, you know, I don't think that's true.
[53:23.750 --> 53:28.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll look at the documentation I have in front of me, and I'll see if there's any fine print about that.
[53:28.210 --> 53:31.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I think I would be careful about this.
[53:32.510 --> 53:34.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, you can always call them up and ask for yourself.
[53:34.270 --> 53:37.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Can they be used within LADA, or is that the problem she was having with that number?
[53:39.170 --> 53:47.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: It can be used within the LADA, certainly, but she was getting confused because the same number was making the call as was receiving the call, so it was a mistake on my part.
[53:47.510 --> 53:48.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: I shouldn't have used that number.
[53:50.470 --> 53:50.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay?
[53:51.050 --> 53:51.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, very good.
[53:51.790 --> 53:52.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks a lot.
[53:52.270 --> 53:52.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, thanks for calling.
[53:53.070 --> 53:53.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: Bye-bye.
[53:53.670 --> 54:00.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that AT&T number, again, for those of you that want to try that out, is 800-321-0-AT-T.
[54:01.430 --> 54:08.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: And at the moment, I believe there is a surcharge if you use that, if you don't tell them that there's no other way for you to make this call.
[54:09.470 --> 54:10.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: But give it a try.
[54:10.570 --> 54:11.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[54:11.510 --> 54:11.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi.
[54:12.170 --> 54:12.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: How are you doing?
[54:12.770 --> 54:13.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, how are you?
[54:13.690 --> 54:14.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm fine.
[54:14.230 --> 54:14.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's good.
[54:15.350 --> 54:17.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: I have this question about public phones.
[54:18.070 --> 54:18.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[54:23.270 --> 54:24.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: At the corner of 23rd and Lexington.
[54:25.170 --> 54:30.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I was really disconcerted because I know what the tones should sound like, right?
[54:30.670 --> 54:30.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: Mm-hmm.
[54:31.030 --> 54:42.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: And when I first called information directory assistance to get the number that I wanted, it didn't sound like the 411.
[54:43.130 --> 54:46.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: The first digit sounded like a pound sign.
[54:46.850 --> 54:54.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I said, I don't know what's going on with this phone, but I let it go through anyway, and it did, in fact, connect me to directory assistance.
[54:54.670 --> 54:59.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then, when I got the number I wanted, I called it, and its first digit was off, too.
[54:59.670 --> 55:02.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I also got through to the proper number.
[55:02.470 --> 55:06.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it sounded like maybe more than one digit was off, but...
[55:06.170 --> 55:08.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, did it dial more digits than the ones you hit?
[55:09.090 --> 55:09.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, no.
[55:10.410 --> 55:16.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: But just like when I dial 411, it sounded like pound 4-1.
[55:16.570 --> 55:17.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you know, some...
[55:17.810 --> 55:19.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like really weird.
[55:19.410 --> 55:20.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: But they did sound...
[55:20.290 --> 55:25.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, you know, I know the tones well enough that I did it a couple of times because I couldn't believe what was happening.
[55:25.810 --> 55:27.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: They did sound like Touch-Tones, though.
[55:27.910 --> 55:28.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, for the most...
[55:28.930 --> 55:31.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they were the standard Touch-Tones, but, um...
[55:31.630 --> 55:35.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because some phones play musical tones in place of Touch-Tones, thinking that you might like that better.
[55:36.350 --> 55:37.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, this wasn't that.
[55:37.530 --> 55:41.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: This was just that the first digit was always off.
[55:41.870 --> 55:42.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[55:42.390 --> 55:45.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but it kept giving me the right number, so I didn't know what to make of it.
[55:45.550 --> 55:47.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just wondered if you'd ever run into that
[55:52.870 --> 55:57.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: scramble the digits when you dial them for reasons unknown, but it does always go through.
[55:58.070 --> 55:59.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: They scramble the digits?
[55:59.290 --> 56:00.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you know what I mean.
[56:00.250 --> 56:04.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: When you hit the digit that you... and you're expecting to hear the way it sounds, it doesn't.
[56:04.530 --> 56:05.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: It sounds...
[56:05.090 --> 56:05.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: Exactly.
[56:05.690 --> 56:06.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's what happened.
[56:06.990 --> 56:09.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: But not all of them were like that, and I don't know.
[56:09.610 --> 56:15.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, if I hear a number and if it's slow enough, I could even, you know, sit down and figure out what the number is.
[56:15.530 --> 56:19.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, experiment with that a little bit more and let us know if you find out any other consistencies.
[56:19.270 --> 56:23.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, try dialing different numbers and see if they all do the same thing or do it in different ways.
[56:23.910 --> 56:24.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay.
[56:24.550 --> 56:26.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just thought it was, you know, kind of weird and interesting.
[56:26.730 --> 56:28.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it's weird and interesting.
[56:28.210 --> 56:29.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'd like to know more about it.
[56:29.170 --> 56:35.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: I also, just quickly, I have a tactic of dealing with, you know, one long distance company or another.
[56:35.730 --> 56:37.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you choose the one you're going to choose and that's it.
[56:38.070 --> 56:41.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't really think one is better than any other or whatever.
[56:41.610 --> 56:41.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[56:42.530 --> 56:47.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: But the problem is that once you choose one, you get harassed by at least some of the others.
[56:47.730 --> 56:50.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, you can tell them to stop calling you too and they have to stop.
[56:50.710 --> 56:51.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: They do?
[56:51.430 --> 56:51.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[56:51.790 --> 56:52.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, I didn't know that.
[56:52.630 --> 56:52.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: Absolutely.
[56:52.850 --> 56:57.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, my tactic so far has been to just simply hang up on them without a word when they call.
[56:58.430 --> 56:58.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[56:58.590 --> 57:00.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because MCI keeps doing it to me.
[57:00.510 --> 57:01.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: They won't quit.
[57:01.830 --> 57:06.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you know, you should be polite, I think, when you do it because these are human beings making the calls.
[57:06.170 --> 57:09.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: But if they consistently do it and they don't let up, then you'd be rude.
[57:09.590 --> 57:11.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, well, yeah, it's gotten to that point.
[57:11.770 --> 57:14.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, I just, I've told them no and no and no, you know.
[57:15.530 --> 57:19.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, um, um, but how do you, how do you get them to totally stop?
[57:19.670 --> 57:21.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is there a way, do you think, or...
[57:21.050 --> 57:25.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, well, you tell them very clearly that, uh, you don't want to receive any more further calls.
[57:25.370 --> 57:28.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: They might give you a number that you should call, uh, to stop the calls yourself.
[57:28.570 --> 57:30.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: But there's a, there's a list you can be put on.
[57:30.490 --> 57:32.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: I can, I can try to get information for that for next week.
[57:32.910 --> 57:33.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, okay.
[57:33.590 --> 57:37.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, uh, you should be cautioned that that puts you on another list of people that don't like to be on lists.
[57:38.250 --> 57:38.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm serious.
[57:39.090 --> 57:39.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's true.
[57:39.750 --> 57:40.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I know.
[57:40.510 --> 57:41.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's no end to it.
[57:41.430 --> 57:48.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, and you might get mail saying that because you're a person that doesn't like being on the list, we know that you value certain things, et cetera, et cetera, but that's just the way it is.
[57:49.230 --> 57:49.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, we're out of time.
[57:50.130 --> 57:51.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: I want to thank everybody for, uh, for calling in.
[57:52.270 --> 57:59.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, we'll be back again next week talking about some other, uh, telecommunications nightmares and, and advances and things like that.
[57:59.530 --> 58:05.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, we'll also be looking into the, uh, acquisition or the 20% interest of British Telecom into MCI that took place today.
[58:06.070 --> 58:08.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll let you know what that means for all of us in the future.
[58:09.450 --> 58:14.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: In the meantime, for Phiber Optik, this is Emmanuel Goldstein saying good night, and, uh, we'll talk to you again next week.
[58:20.990 --> 58:23.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: Stay tuned for the WBAI Evening News.