This is the sixth game of the World Series, and the next game will be the seventh, Yanks
and Dodgers.
Who?
Yanks and Dodgers.
World Series.
You must have the wrong field.
This is a softball game between Towner and National Ads, two advertising agencies.
Nah, it's the World Series.
Yanks and Dodgers.
Yanks win and buy a run, Dodgers got a runner on first, and you're on the mound.
I have to get back to the game.
Right.
Mow him down.
Show him who's boss with your blazing fastball.
I haven't seen it yet today.
You have to leave the field.
Sure.
I'll sit on the swings and root for you.
Hey, hurry up and get this game over with so I can get in.
A corporate baseball game takes on a nightmarish quality this week on WBAI's Radio Theater.
Hi, I'm your host, Joe Bevilacqua.
Join me for part one of For All the Marvels.
That's this Saturday, June 5th, at 7 p.m., following Willoughby and the Professor on
WBAI 99.5 FM.
You're listening to non-commercial radio in New York, WBAI Pacifica Radio 99.5 FM.
The time is 10 o'clock.
That means it's time for high tech and a lot of interesting things on Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
It couldn't get much worse.
But if they could, they would.
Bum-diddly-bum for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bum-diddly-bum!
Good evening.
It's Wednesday night again, and we're back here live with another edition of Off the Hook.
No asking for money tonight, but we are going to be taking phone calls at 212-279-3400 to
kind of catch up with where our listeners have been over the past month or so, and also
to thank everybody who did call and pledge during our marathon.
And if you made a pledge, please make sure you pay it.
Making a pledge is half the step, paying it is the other half.
Well, we have a bit of information to pass out, as we always do.
This concerns something that we've talked about before as far as access on the Internet.
We have an administration now that is fairly interested in the Internet, interested actually
in technology in general.
They know what the Internet is.
You can't even say Internet to a congressman or to a vice president and actually not get
a blank stare.
Of course, the last vice president, he said anything, he'd get a blank stare.
But the point is, we're moving into a period where the people in power are becoming more
technically literate.
There is good in that, but there is also some worrisome parts to that.
So we have to cover all bases.
There are some new addresses, and those of you that are on the Internet should know what
these addresses are.
If you want to send an Internet message to President Clinton, well, you can send it to
president at WhiteHouse.gov.
President, followed by the at sign, WhiteHouse, one word, dot G-O-V.
I can't really say how good this system is just yet.
It's still too new.
So we can't really say that it works.
I sent a letter off yesterday asking if anybody there, not the president or the vice president,
but anybody running the system would be interested in talking on the program.
I sent it to a bunch of addresses that I figured would have people attached to them.
And one of the first replies I got came within a few hours.
This comes from MailerDemon at WhiteHouse.gov.
You have sent mail to a nonexistent account on WhiteHouse.gov.
Presently, the system is not accepting mail pending formal announcement of availability.
Thank you, the postmaster.
Well, the funny thing is it has been announced and it is available,
so I'm not quite sure why I got that message.
But then I got another message, a more hopeful message.
This one comes from Postmaster at WhiteHouse.gov.
And it says, thank you for sending in your thoughts and comments to the president via electronic mail.
We are pleased to introduce this new form of communication into the White House for the first time in history.
I welcome your response and participation.
As we work to reinvent government and streamline our processes,
this electronic mail experiment will help put us on the leading edge of progress.
Please remember, though, this is still very much an experiment.
Your message has been read, and we are keeping careful track of all the mail we are receiving electronically.
We will be trying out a number of response-based systems shortly,
and I ask for your patience as we move forward to integrate electronic mail from the public into the White House.
Again, on behalf of the president, thank you for your message
and for taking part in the White House electronic mail project.
Sincerely, Marcia Scott, Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of Correspondence.
Well, that just made my day getting a letter from WhiteHouse.gov.
Yes, we haven't gotten an answer yet if they're going to put somebody on the air to answer questions and talk about the system.
But it's coming. You know it's coming.
They probably got about a million messages because this hit the Internet a couple of days ago,
and I'm sure everybody tried it out at least once to see if you can actually send a message to the president.
Well, and as we find out more addresses, we will, of course, let you know what those addresses are and how you can use them.
Right now, it just seems like a way of getting a message through,
whether the message is actually listened to is another question entirely.
Again, those addresses, president at WhiteHouse, one word, WhiteHouse.gov.
And fiber optic, that is a real system, is it not?
That is a real address on the net going to a real computer, yeah.
Okay. What else could it be if it wasn't a real computer?
Oh, it could be a simple UCP mail feed, whereas some name server someplace on the net would just keep a record
saying that if anyone tried to send mail to that particular address,
that it would just get spooled up on some computer somewhere, and then they would just go and pick it up later.
But that's an actual machine.
And for you hackers out there, you can't telnet over to it or log into it.
Yeah, it's restricted from everything from the outside world except for their mail port.
Yeah.
They can only receive email.
Right.
You can telnet to that all you want.
Yeah, so if you know what to do with that, that's fine.
But you can't log in, at least not from the internet that we know.
Speaking of the internet that we know, there's another way to access it that might interest some people.
I'll read you a little press release here.
This is actually from April.
It's from Delmar Communications.
They've established a database, a data center.
They call it to provide free internet connectivity to the general public.
They're calling it Speedway.
They've installed a large bank of V32 BIS-capable modems, and more will be added as usage increases.
They basically offer access to the internet if you call them.
They're in Oregon.
That's the disadvantage to us.
They're in Oregon, and once you get there, all you have to do is log in as telnet or rlogin.
The letter R followed by the word login.
No space.
That will give you access to the internet.
You can simply telnet or rlogin anywhere you want on the internet.
Now, there are a couple of catches here.
You can only use AT&T to get this service.
You have to call using AT&T.
If you don't have AT&T, you must enter the AT&T carrier access code, 10288, before you call the number.
The number is 503-520-2222.
It's 503-520-2222.
If you call it using any other carrier, you'll get a busy signal.
I'm not quite sure how they pulled this off, but you have to use AT&T or it will not go through.
Now, what I found rather disturbing about this was when I called it and when I connected,
the very first thing I got on my screen was a message that said,
For security purposes, your phone number has been recorded.
Now, I don't quite know what that means, security purposes.
Certainly not my security, but it's kind of unsettling to get a message like that
as soon as you call something that you're not sure what it's all about.
But your number is recorded somewhere.
I invite people to try it out.
Let us know what you learned from this system.
Again, the number using AT&T, which means you might have to dial 10288 first.
Area code 503-520-2222.
And you'll get a prompt of some sort.
You can type TELNET or you can type RLOGIN and wander around the Internet to your heart's content.
But you will have to pay for a long-distance phone call to Oregon,
which late at night, I don't know how much that is.
It's not too much, though.
Now, if for some reason you can't get through to the carrier access code of 10288,
you can always use the 800 number that AT&T offers.
And that number is 800-321-0ATT.
And that will get you that little bong.
You know, the little bong you get on the telephone that says you're connected to AT&T.
We'll demonstrate that in a moment.
First, speaking of 800 numbers,
we've mentioned that something has changed in regards to 800 numbers.
Portability has come to town.
What that means is 800 numbers used to be defined by exchange.
In other words, if you called 800-222-0100,
that's a number, right?
Yeah, if you called that, you could be pretty much assured that AT&T carried that particular phone call.
It's AT&T's number, but apart from that, the exchange, the entire 222 exchange, would be AT&T.
Now, the 969 exchange, for instance, would be cable and wireless.
The 444 exchange would be MCI,
and you could pretty much figure out what carrier handled which 800 number based on the prefix.
Now, that has changed.
Today, any phone number can be handled by any long-distance company.
It's called portability.
Now, cable and wireless, which is one of the long-distance companies,
has just come out with a little newsletter for its customers.
Now, there's something really strange about this newsletter.
If you hold it up to all the other newsletters that come out,
New York Telephone and MCI and Sprint and all the other phone companies that put out their little customer brochures
that they send with their bills, this one assumes you're intelligent.
Now, I know a lot of customers will be insulted by that,
but this is something that actually assumes you care, for one thing,
and assumes you have a working knowledge of the system.
I'll read you part of what they sent.
A comparison of how 800 numbers used to be completed.
Okay, when callers dialed an 800 number, the second three digits,
in other words, the digits after 800,
we call that the NXX,
tell the local telephone company which long-distance carrier should receive the call.
Once the long-distance carrier gets the call from the local telephone company,
it checks its own database to determine where the call should go,
and then completes the call to its destination.
Okay, now after May 1st, 1993, in other words, today,
when callers dial an 800 number,
the local telephone company will look up the entire 10-digit 800 number
in new service control points, which are databases, located throughout the country.
The database will tell the local telephone company
which long-distance carrier the customer wants to carry this 800 number.
And by customer, we mean the person that owns the 800 number,
not the person placing the call.
It is this new step of sending the entire 10-digit 800 number
to the service control points that makes 800 number portability possible.
And once the long-distance carrier receives the call,
it will process the call as it does today.
Now, Fiber, is that accurate, what they say?
That's fairly accurate, yes.
Now, it's very unusual for you to say that something that a phone company is saying
is fairly accurate.
Yeah, I was surprised myself upon reading it
that they actually use such big words as service control point.
Yeah, these people ought to be commended for putting something out like this.
Now, cable and wireless is not really for individual mom-and-pop type people.
It's for businesses mostly.
But if you argue with them a little bit,
you can probably get residential service without much of a problem.
But they are really flexible as far as most things go.
I still think they're the only providers of 800 service
that allow for user programmability.
In other words, you call up, and using touch tones,
you tell their system where you want your 800 number to go.
And that's something that I don't see AT&T offering,
at least not for something that's simple to use.
Now, here is a little history of 800 numbers
that they also provided with this package.
From 1967 to 1985, the age of no competition, they call it.
In 1967, AT&T introduced 800 service as an alternative to collect calling.
For almost two decades, they were the only carrier offering this service.
In 1985, the courts overseeing the AT&T divestiture
ordered that there be some competition in the 800 marketplace.
But local telephone technology was not prepared for such a sweeping change.
So the courts implemented the plan under which we operate,
or did operate before May 1st, called the Interim NXX Plan.
And from 1985 to May 1st, 1993, the age of limited choice.
I love these terminologies here.
The Interim NXX Plan allowed other long-distance companies
like cable and wireless into the 800 market.
Each long-distance company was assigned a group of unique 800 number exchanges,
or NXXs, the second three digits of an 800 number.
Once a customer chose a long-distance company for its 800 service
and was assigned a number, they were locked in.
There was no way to change carriers without changing the 800 number.
For the past few years, local telephone companies and long-distance carriers
have been working to develop the advanced technologies necessary
for free competition in the 800 market.
On May 1st, 1993, a new age of free competition begins.
In 1991, the Federal Communications Commission
ordered the implementation of 800 number portability.
This change, which took place on May 1st, began the age of freedom of choice
and total competition among long-distance carriers for 800 service.
It's almost as stirring as the Bolshevik Revolution,
but we're talking about phone numbers here, really.
The new system offers redundant reliability.
Though new to the processing of national 800 numbers,
the technology for 800 portability has been used by some of the Bell operating companies
to route local 800 calls for several years.
The system is designed to be completely reliable and redundant with backup facilities.
What a nice idea, backup facilities.
That means everything won't fall apart when there's a mistake.
Cable and wireless, other long-distance companies and the Bell operating companies
are testing and retesting every part of this system
to ensure there is no interruption of service.
And so far I think everything has gone okay.
See if there's anything else that you would need to know about.
800 portability uses new call processing technology
called Signaling System 7, or SS7,
which ultimately will decrease call connect time.
Until this new technology exists throughout the national telecommunications network, however,
a very short increase in call connect time may result on some calls.
All long-distance carriers will be affected equally by this situation.
And, you know, they give you a couple of little tips, too,
on how to choose the 800 numbers.
Kind of amusing.
They advise that you come up with an easy-to-remember 7-letter word
for use with your phone number.
If you can't find one with 7 letters, use 8 letters.
The last letter means nothing when dialed anyway.
It's like the S for savings. Leave it off.
Provide the number as well as the letters
for people that don't know where the letters are.
That's something that always struck me.
Ever realize that service that tells people how to read that don't know how to read?
Their 800 number is a word.
Well, it's not a word, but it's A-B-C-D-E-F-G.
Now, if you were completely, totally illiterate and you couldn't recognize letters,
I just think it's a cruel joke to play on somebody.
That's just my opinion on that.
They also advise you to avoid words that contain the letter O.
This confuses people who aren't sure whether they should dial 0 or the letter O.
For that matter, I would avoid the letter I
because people might dial 1 when that happens.
And don't use the letter Q and the letter Z
because they don't exist on the phone keypad.
If you can't come up with a name or a saying,
try to get a number that's easy to remember.
That is, a number ending with 9-9-9-9, if possible.
Always a popular number.
And a couple of facts about 800 numbers.
The number one reason for investing in an 800 number,
according to companies surveyed, is increased brand loyalty.
And the average call mix from customer service 800 numbers is
54% inquiries, 30% complaints, 12% new orders and promotions.
The rest are probably hackers looking for voicemail boxes.
800 service is an American invention and phenomenon.
That's right.
Japan toll-free calling was introduced only a couple of years ago.
So there you go.
The history of 800 numbers here is presented on Off the Hook.
Now, getting back to that AT&T service.
And by the way, we gave out the phone number before.
I want to give a little hint out to some people.
There's a lot of people in New Jersey that complain
about trying to call the radio show, and they let the phone ring and ring.
And since they're forced to use AT&T or some long-distance carrier,
it disconnects them after a while.
Well, try this instead.
Try using New Jersey Bell.
I'm not sure if they'll disconnect you.
They might not.
And if they don't, that means you can let the phone ring 4,000 times or whatever
until we finally get around to picking it up.
And you do that by dialing 1-0-N-J-B, which is,
hold on, I can do this, 1-0-6-5-2.
I sound like a moron, I know, but I'm looking at the phone keypad as I say this.
1-0-6-5-2, 1-0-N-J-B.
And then 2-1-2, 2-7-9, 3-4-100, or dial 1 first if you have to in your area.
Well, it's worth noting that 10-N-J-B only works in the 201 area code.
Yeah, okay, in the 201 area code.
You can try it in 908.
I mean, maybe it'll work there.
908 used to be part of 201.
They're all the same indigenous people.
So it's not like the 201-609 feud that's been going on for centuries.
I mean, they'll never settle that.
That's about the extent of ethnic nationalities that we have
fighting each other in this country based on borders.
It's area codes.
Area codes here, folks.
That's all we care about.
All right, so AT&T has this service, this 800 service,
that will allow you to get an AT&T line no matter where you are.
Now, this is good because if you're stuck at one of those evil payphones,
and you know the kinds of evil payphones we're talking about,
the kinds where you don't know quite what it is you're dialing.
You know, they're called co-cuts, customer-owned, coin-operated telephones.
And what they are are alternatively owned payphones.
Sometimes they don't use regular phone companies to complete calls.
Sometimes they're better than regular New York telephone payphones,
but sometimes they're not.
And a good example is if you call something using a calling card,
they will cheerfully take your AT&T calling card and use it,
but charge it with another company,
and it sometimes charges many times what AT&T will charge.
So to get around that, there are several options.
You can call the operator and ask the operator to connect you to AT&T
or whichever phone company you want.
Most times that results in a pretty hearty chuckle from that operator
saying that they have no intention of doing anything of that sort,
and you're just left to cuss at a metallic object hanging on a wall.
The other option is to dial a carrier access code.
This is what they always tell you on TV.
They always say dial 102-88-0 and then your phone number.
That's all fine and dandy if you're calling from a New York telephone payphone,
but for most co-cuts, that does not work.
Never has, probably never will.
So here's a way around this.
Dial an 800 number and get your AT&T bong tone that way.
Let's see if we can get a dial tone here.
Okay, we have one.
Let's call this 800 numbers.
1-800-321-0ATT.
This is not a commercial for AT&T.
I think if you've heard this show, you'll know that for sure.
AT&T, please dial the number you are calling or 0 for an operator now.
Okay, let's do that.
Dial 212-279-3400.
Please dial your card number and PIN or 0 for an operator now.
Well, since I'm not going to dial my card number plus PIN, I'm going to get an operator.
Hi, Julie. How may I help you?
Yes, hi. I was wondering if you could tell me,
is the cost for this call the same as if I was just dialing 0 plus?
Well, you're calling 212-279-3400?
Right.
But it's not a good number.
It's not a good number? What do you mean it's not a good number?
Bronx?
I'm sorry?
Are you calling the Bronx?
No, I'm calling Midtown Manhattan.
Midtown Manhattan.
Yes.
It's coming up like an invalid number.
Oh, wait a minute. You're calling the same number you're calling from.
That's why it's coming up weird. Okay.
All right. You see, I'm testing this system,
and what I need to find out is if the cost is the same as if I just dialed 0 plus.
But how could I find out what you're calling if you put in the same number that you're calling from?
I see. It probably wasn't a good choice to do that then.
What number would you be calling?
Well, could you just tell me is there any kind of surcharge for using the 800 number instead of doing 0 plus
if I'm at a weird pay phone or something?
The best thing to do is to try dialing it direct using the access code 10288
and then zero area code and number.
If that doesn't work, if you have to use the access code with the 800 number,
let the operator know that you tried dialing it direct
and you wanted to bill it to your calling card so that you would get the direct dial rate.
Because if you don't say anything, then we have to charge you a surcharge.
Okay. How much is that surcharge?
I think it's a dollar.
That's if I just use the AT&T 800 number and don't say anything?
Exactly.
Okay. All right. That's important to know then.
Okay. Thank you very much for your help.
Right. But you want to save money.
Yeah. That's the point of it all.
Right.
Okay. Thank you very much.
No problem. I'd be glad to place a call for you.
Okay. Well, if I consider making one later, I'll get back and talk to you.
All right. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Bye.
Wow. I could have talked to her all night long, I suppose.
For a while there, I didn't think we were communicating at all.
I mean, I was asking something and she was giving me a different kind of answer.
I think she was telling me about 1 plus dialing and I just wanted to know,
is there a surcharge? Yes or no? Tell me.
And there is a surcharge. I didn't know that.
I guess it makes sense. But if you tell the operators, it's very important.
Of course, you can't use the automated system then.
You tie up more people.
But if you tell the operator that you're at one of these weird pay phones
and it won't let you dial 102-88 and they won't charge you a surcharge.
So that number again is 1-800-321-0ATT.
Now, if you've saved a lot of money by the tips we've given you,
won't you consider making a pledge?
Actually, I should use that line for when we're asking for money.
But let's consider it if you didn't pledge something.
Now, here's something from a listener who sent this in from New Jersey
and I want to thank them very much.
It's a page from a New Jersey Bell Atlantic Company phone bill
from the 908 area code.
Enhancement to directory assistance is available now.
An optional directory assistance service is now available on your line.
After requesting a number from directory assistance,
you can automatically have that call completed with the touch of a button.
That's right.
Connect request service is what they call it over there.
And connect request service will dial that call just by pressing 1.
Just by pressing 1. Amazing.
If the call you requested is answered, you will be charged an additional 30 cents.
There is no monthly service charge for connect request service.
Isn't that wonderful?
No monthly service charge, but just a 30 cent per call charge.
We live in the greatest country in the world, don't we?
However, all connect request service calls are subject to all applicable charges as appropriate.
That's right. You have to pay for the call as well.
Connect request service is available for most calls in your New Jersey regional calling area.
The directory assistance announcement will let you know if the call you have requested
can be completed with connect request service.
You can request to have this service restricted from your line.
The first time you ask to have this service blocked, there will be no charge.
After that, the sky is the limit.
It was called enhancement to directory assistance.
Our listener retitled that another way of enhancing revenue.
It's certainly true.
I'd like to demonstrate one other thing, too.
I'm not sure how this is going to turn out, to be honest.
I'd like to sort of try this and see if it works.
Let's get an information operator, a local information operator,
and see if that service exists here.
But also, there's something else that happened to me this week.
I want to see if it's something that happens a lot, if it's a new policy.
And if it is, it will be revealed right here, right now.
New York City Information.
Can I help you?
Yes, hello. I need the number for WBAI, please.
Thank you. Tricky Manhattan. Hold for your number.
Thank you.
Thank you for calling New York Telephone.
The number is 2-7-9-0-7-0-7.
That's our office line.
9-0-7-0-7.
Aha! Did you hear that?
I'm sorry, repeat that?
Clunk.
Clunk, that's right. Clunk.
Now, something has changed here.
Something is different.
What is missing? What is missing from this picture?
Do you remember a recording that used to say,
if you need further instructions, please stay on the line,
and an operator will help you?
They don't do that anymore.
Now, this just happened.
This just started happening within the past week.
I don't recall any Public Service Commission hearings.
I don't recall any announcements.
This was snuck under the door somehow.
And this is something that I don't think we should be tolerating,
because if you need a second number,
they would give you a second number.
If you needed an address, they would give you an address.
If you didn't get the number,
or if the recording misplayed or something like that,
or if they played you the wrong name or the wrong number,
you could always ask an operator for assistance.
And now that's been taken away from us as well.
If you need to ask a follow-up question,
you have to call all over again.
Start from the beginning.
Even presidential press conferences give you a follow-up.
Not New York Telephone.
So friends, call in, complain, write your legislators,
write the PSC, call the PSC, call phone company executives,
make posters, banners, rent buses,
and do various things like that.
And maybe, maybe we can get this changed.
And we'll look into it some more on our end as well.
Okay, we're going to take a short break
and come back with listener phone calls as well as other things.
But before we do,
I'd just like to read a quote that I found
the other day.
This is something I think we should all bear in mind.
There were in this country
two very large monopolies.
The larger of the two had the following record.
The Vietnam War,
Watergate,
double-digit inflation,
fuel and energy shortages,
bankrupt airlines,
and the 8-cent postcard.
As it's only a dawning sun
It doesn't really matter what clothes I wear
Or how I feel
Or if my hair is brown
Well, it's only a dawning sun
If you think the harmony
Is a little dark and out of key
You're correct
There's nobody there
Well, I know somebody's out there.
And if you're out there, give us a call.
212-279-3400
We're taking phone calls.
No, there's lots of people here.
212-279-3400
This item that you may not have heard about in the newspapers
about computer hackers.
Two computer hackers
given six-month prison sentences
recently in England.
They were the first to be jailed
under legislation
passed in 1990
to outlaw the practice.
They call it a practice
as if it's something that people sit around in smoky rooms
and plan out.
You know, computer hacking is kind of like breathing.
It just sort of happens.
Neil Woods and Carl Strickland
24 and 22 years of age, respectively
had pleaded guilty to the offenses.
In March, Paul Bedworth, a Yorkshire schoolboy
who regularly communicated with Woods and Strickland
and was arrested at the same time
was cleared of similar charges by a jury
after a 15-day trial.
He had pleaded not guilty
and claimed that he had become addicted to hacking.
All three were trapped
by sophisticated police
and British telecom tracking in several countries.
It's all too much, isn't it?
Before the 1990 Computer Misuse Act
those who gained access to other people's computer networks
had to be prosecuted for causing damage
or stealing information.
But in the case, which ended recently
the judge accepted that the accused
had not been intending to cause damage
and had not profited in any way.
Sentencing the two graduates at Southward Crown Court
Judge Michael Harris said this...
No, he didn't say that.
I have to mark your conduct with prison sentences
both to penalize you for what you have done
and for the losses caused
and to deter others who might be similarly tempted.
The offenses were committed over three years
before and after the 1990 Act was passed.
Strickland, a research assistant at Liverpool University
and Woods of Chatterton Oldham, Greater Manchester
a computer salesman and computer science graduate
from Manchester University
pleaded guilty...
and this is what they pleaded guilty to...
conspiring to obtain telegraphic services dishonestly
and engaging in the unauthorized publication
of computer information.
Well, friends, I think I'm guilty of that.
At least, it depends on what you mean
by unauthorized publication of computer information.
If it means publishing something
that some company thinks is a secret
well, that's...
that's called freedom of the press.
England is the last place to look for that.
Woods also admitted causing 15,000 pounds of damage
to a computer owned by the then Polytechnic of central London.
Of course, damage can be defined in many different ways.
Simply having to change a password
has been defined by phone companies in this country
as damage amounting to several thousand dollars.
The two accused did not meet until after their arrests
in June 1991, so much for a conspiracy.
Although they spoke on screen under their codenames,
among hackers, Woods was known as Pad
and Strickland was known as Gandalf,
and Gandalf is the wizard in Lord of the Rings.
They're real hardened criminals, you can tell by the nicknames they choose.
Using personal computers at home,
they were frequent illegal users of a BT network,
British Telecom Network, called PSS,
and a system known as JANET,
which linked academic institutions throughout Britain.
It's sad to think of these people going to jail
for exploring a computer system.
That's really all I see them having done here.
And British Telecom is something
that just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
I don't know if people heard the news today.
They bought 20% of MCI today.
That means TimeNet and MCI
are going to be linked together in holy matrimony.
And it's going to be holy terror for a lot of us
when monopolies keep meeting each other
and getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
You can say there's competition,
they're not really monopolies,
but ask a small telecommunications company
if there aren't monopolies out there.
The judge finished by saying,
if your passion had been cars rather than computers,
we would have called your conduct delinquent.
I don't shrink from the analogy of describing
what you were doing as intellectual joyriding.
There may be people out there who consider hacking to be harmless,
but hacking is not harmless.
Computers now form a central role in our lives,
containing personal details, financial details,
confidential matters of companies and government departments,
and many business organizations.
He said that hackers needed to be given
a clear signal by the courts
that their activities will not and cannot be tolerated.
And they also claim in England that the amount of hacking
has gone down dramatically as a result of this.
I find that hard to believe.
You're too much
We are dead
Anytime you send a signal like that,
it just sort of bounces around,
but it never really sinks in,
because it goes against common sense.
You can't tell people to stop asking questions,
to stop exploring,
to stop looking for alternatives,
figuring out how it all works.
Lots of times you have to walk on somebody else's lawn
to get somewhere,
as long as you don't rip it to pieces.
We're not talking about a massive amount of damage
or any damage at all.
212-279-3400.
We're going to take some phone calls now.
WBAI, you're on the air.
Okay, that's great.
WBAI, you're on the air.
Yeah, hello.
How are you doing?
Hi.
I'm glad you were talking about 800 numbers earlier,
because that's what my call is about.
Okay.
Okay.
What's interesting is, I remember several weeks ago
you were talking about how the 800-number company
is automating the number of calls
That's right, using ANI.
Okay, so now, in terms of,
I guess you've seen the ads on the television,
they have now the adult entertainment lines
that are 800 numbers.
That's right.
Because they call you back.
They call you back and make it seem
as if you just got a collect call.
Right.
Which is, you know,
make it seem as if you just got a collect call.
Right.
Which is a rather shady thing,
especially if, you know,
if you've blocked 900 numbers from your line
because you don't want to have calls like that
show up on your phone bill.
And your kid calls an 800 number
and it calls you back collect.
Right.
I mean, how do you avoid something like that?
Right.
Now, the company that I have found is the main company
or at least it's the name of the company
that appears on your bill is Integritel.
Yeah, Integritel is a billing agent, okay?
They claim that they don't actually run these things
and they don't actually run these things.
They handle the billing.
But that doesn't absolve them from guilt
because if you handle billing for slimeballs,
well, that sort of, you know,
puts you in league with them
in a moral sense, if nothing else.
So they certainly deserve your wrath
if you come up with these $1,000 phone bills
that you don't believe you owe.
Right.
Do you...
Okay, now,
what is their connection with New York Telephone?
Because...
There is none.
No connection at all.
Uh-huh.
It shows up on the New York Telephone bill,
but you'll see on the top of that page,
it will say there is no connection
between this phone company and New York Telephone
or whatever your local phone company is.
What happens if you don't pay
the Integritel part of the bill?
Well, now, that's the interesting thing.
Different things happen
depending on various stages of the moon, I think.
What is supposed to happen...
Well, what happens with 900 numbers?
Let's cover that first.
If you don't pay a 900 part of your bill,
in many cases,
it will just simply be taken off your bill
and they'll say, you know,
900 people, you deal with the customer yourself,
it's out of our hands.
New York Telephone or whatever the local company is
will not deal with it.
Actually, I'm not sure if New York Telephone
does handle it that way,
but I do know some companies do.
Now, with long-distance companies, however,
it's slightly different.
They treat it as it's one lump payment.
If you owe AT&T, if you owe Integritel,
if you owe MCI,
and it shows up on that bill,
it's the New York Telephone bill,
and they'll keep billing you
month after month after month
until they hear otherwise from that company.
Well, you just said Integritel
is like a long-distance company.
It is, yes.
Uh-huh.
Now, what they do,
what Integritel does,
and I've had experience
with just about all of these companies,
they won't take it off your bill.
They'll simply mail you a voucher,
and you're supposed to mail that voucher in
with your phone bill,
and then you take that off your next phone bill.
But you have to keep track.
You know, you call them up,
and they usually take it off right away.
What do you mean take it off?
They say, okay, you know,
if you got a $10 phone call from somewhere,
a collect phone call
that you don't think you deserve,
they'll say, okay,
we'll take that off your bill
or we'll mail you a voucher.
But you have to remember
that you have a voucher coming to you
because the phone company
isn't going to do anything about it.
They're not going to deduct $10
from your phone bill
because Integritel works
in a weird kind of way.
They have to send you a voucher,
and you have to do the right thing
with the voucher.
Right.
You have to submit it
with your next phone bill.
If you want to dispute
any of these calls,
you have to do it
on an individual basis
of every collect call
that came in.
Yeah, well, I mean,
if you say,
I don't accept collect calls
or I didn't accept
any collect calls on that day,
the discussion
should pretty much end there.
Yeah.
And you can also ask
to have your number blocked
if you're not accepting
collect calls.
Although, unfortunately,
I don't believe
there's a technology
in place to selectively block
from certain
long-distance companies.
I would like to see that,
but I don't believe it exists.
Have you ever heard
of examples where
mistakes are made
and they send
unsolicited collect calls
to somebody?
Yes.
Oh, you have heard of that?
Oh, yes.
It happens all the time.
These are computers
that work here,
and there's people
programming the computers.
And if you saw the people
that were programming
the computers,
you'd realize
that they were
doing that in a negative way,
even though I've said
the exact same thing
in a positive way before.
Uh-huh.
So even if they have
a record on their computers,
they could be mistaken?
Oh, sure.
Yeah, the computer
is not always right.
I mean, New York Telephone
has gotten it wrong
where they say
that you made a call
from your house,
but they're wrong
because nobody was there.
Uh-huh.
And people can prove that.
So they have made
computer errors,
and they always will.
Right.
Oh, now this is good.
Okay, so...
How much are we talking about
on your bill here?
A few hundred.
A few hundred dollars.
For how many calls?
I don't...
I couldn't tell you right now.
Not that many calls.
Yeah.
A dozen or so.
Well, in almost all cases,
they let you off
completely the first time.
Oh, really?
Yeah, in almost all cases.
It's the first time.
And if you're not a business,
I don't think you have
anything to worry about
because businesses
have to block
their own phone systems,
and they're
completely responsible,
but residences are not.
Yeah, there you see,
Integritel has told me
over the phone,
that if you're not
a business,
that you have to talk to
or write to
the individual companies
that appear on the bill
that handle
each individual number.
No, it's not up to you
to do that.
You tell Integritel,
take this off my bill.
Oh, really?
Period.
Yes.
I did not make these calls.
These calls are not mine.
Get them off the bill.
If they continue
to harass you,
then threaten to go
higher than that.
The Federal Communications
Commission, for instance,
your State Public Service
Administration,
they're not going to
do that.
They're not going to
do that.
They're going to
do that.
Your State Public Service
Commission,
they both can have
some impact here.
That's interesting.
All right, listen,
we've got to move
to another call.
Thank you very much.
Okay, good luck.
Bye.
Your phone bills
can be bombs
waiting to go off.
I always feel
this sense of dread
when the phone bill comes
because there's always
something in there
that's a surprise.
I talked last week
a little bit
about how
I was pursuing
the phone company
to make these changes
to my line
that I've been asking
for months.
Well, they finally,
after I stick the
Public Service Commission
on them,
they finally made
a couple of the changes.
Not all of them.
They made a couple.
They made a valiant effort
to program their computers
properly,
but still,
even after that,
even after another week
with the Public Service
Commission
breathing down their necks,
they still did not do
100% of it.
So I don't know.
This may be impossible,
but I'm going to
try it again
and I'll report back
next week.
Good evening.
You're on the radio.
Oh, hello.
I had the same problem,
but this time on the bill
was a small,
single call
to a faraway place
and next to the charge
it says
Operator Assisted.
Uh-huh.
So, you know,
I called about that
and, you know,
there wasn't anybody home
and all that
and they were going to
find out where this
faraway place was.
What company
are we talking about?
AT&T.
AT&T.
Okay.
And so,
a long time ago,
years ago,
I had like one of
these funny problems
with obviously
stray calls
but this time
it was like,
you know,
Operator Assisted.
Somebody physically
made the call
from the premises
seemed to be
the implication.
Well, there's
several ways
that can be done.
Do you live in an apartment?
No, it's just me,
although, you know,
who knows?
You live in a house?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Well, there still
are various places
that you can tap
into a line
on the pole.
It could have been
a lineman
for New York Telephone.
It could have been
somebody clipping
routes,
lines into other people's
houses by mistake
and a phone rings.
This has happened to me
several times
where a phone rings
and people pick it up
simultaneously
in different houses.
Oh, wow.
So, if they can make
that kind of a mistake,
of course,
you can get a
stray phone call
on your bill.
All right.
Can I ask you one other?
Sure.
Because I really
find this fascinating.
Yeah.
You could drop
the long distance company
and still have a phone
in your house that works
that you can pick up
and, you know,
you can select
none as your
long distance carrier.
And that's actually
a good thing
for some people
that have kids
that make long distance
phone calls
that aren't too
technically literate
that won't be able
to figure out
to dial a carrier
access code.
In other words,
you have to dial
a carrier access code
to make a long distance
call.
Got it.
All right.
That's good.
Okay.
And I'll take
just one final thing
because I really love this.
You know,
one of the things
about companies,
I mean,
they do amazing things,
you know.
They certainly are.
I know you appreciate
that part, too.
Yeah.
They're great things
in the hands of people
that can shape them
to meet their needs.
In the hands
of corporations
that just tell you
how they want you
to use them,
they can be horrible
tools for questions.
Well, it's conflicting
interests, right,
about which way
the technology
is best helping
everyone on Earth,
you know.
Uh-huh.
Hands-on access,
that's what it's all about.
How you doing?
Good.
I really enjoy your show.
Thank you.
More bad news, though,
about local
New York City information.
There's another thing
that has changed
in the last couple of days.
When you call
and ask for a number
that happens to be
a non-published number,
in the old days,
or until a few days ago,
the operator himself
or himself
would have told you
that it was
a non-published number
and offered you credit.
Right.
They'd ask you
for a credit card
and they'd give you
a credit card
and they'd give you
a credit card
and they'd give you
a credit.
Right.
They'd ask for your
phone number.
Right.
No more.
That's gone, too.
You just get a recording
now that says
the number's unpublished?
Chunk.
No.
No?
You get a recording
that says the number
is unpublished
and that if you
live in the local area
and want credit
for this call,
you have to call back.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
You have to call again
and pay another 40 cents
to get...
I mean,
you could be doing
that.
You don't have to dial
either 411
or 555-1212.
I'm going to actually
take the time
after the show
to call
and ask for an
unlisted number
that I know
and see if that happens
and if it does happen,
there's going to be
some letters written.
I can tell you that.
This is getting silly.
This is...
Just in the last few days
it's changed.
The operator
holds the number
just like she's
giving you
a regular number
except you get
this long recording
saying unlisted
and if you are
in the area
or the local area,
call back for credit.
Uh-huh.
Now this is also
a big problem
because a lot of times
when you call
Directory Assistance,
the number isn't enough.
They can give you
the address as well.
This is not a secret.
They can do this.
Now,
how do you ask
for the address
after they give you
the number
if it hangs up?
Absolutely.
It's impossible
and that's part
of their service
and they're providing
less service
and information
to be free.
At these cold cuts,
what they've done recently
that I think
the Public Service Commission
has actually been able
to get them to do
is provide free information.
Local information,
that is.
So,
that should work.
If it doesn't work,
then something's wrong
or they should have
a phone book
attached to it.
Right,
but some of them don't.
I've been asked
for 50 cents
for 411.
Yeah,
I've been asked
for $9.95
for an 800 number too.
When that happens,
call the Public Service Commission.
And I recently made
a collect call
from a cold cut,
about 10 bucks for it.
Yeah,
that's a big mistake
to ever do that.
Yeah,
I know.
That'll never happen again.
Okay.
See that it doesn't
and thanks for calling.
Bye.
Well,
you know,
people are learning.
A few years ago,
I think people
would have made
more collect calls
from cold cuts,
but these days,
they know.
They know better.
Live and learn.
Good evening.
Hello?
Yes,
go ahead,
you're on.
Oh,
they want me back,
it seems.
They do, huh?
Yeah,
the check is to the tune
of 75 bucks.
Really?
And it says,
go ahead,
take this check,
deposit it,
put it in the bank,
you must sign it
by hand.
Use your little
endorsement stamp.
And underneath
the signature,
it says,
I authorize
that my phone number
should be changed
back to AT&T.
Okay.
Nowhere on the letter
does it say
how long I have to leave it.
Well,
then that means
you can change it
back next month.
But you will have to
pay a $5 fee
to your local phone company,
but you'll still
be ahead $70.
Yeah,
that's what it
sounded like to me.
I couldn't believe it.
Well,
you know,
I would suggest
trying it out
and see if you can
actually do that,
because if it doesn't
say anywhere in the letter,
read it carefully,
get a telescope
or a microscope,
rather,
and just make sure
that there's nothing there,
and make sure that
you're in the right.
Okay.
Now,
you mentioned
the $5 charges.
When you go to AT&T
the first time
and when you go back,
if you go back.
Yeah,
I probably would.
But,
yeah,
that's interesting.
What do you hear about,
what do you know about
the 1-800-COLLECT?
Have you seen the ads
for those?
Yeah,
we featured that
last week, actually.
That's an MCI-offered product.
It's interesting,
though,
on television,
they don't say it's MCI.
I don't know why that is,
but it is MCI.
If you call them,
they will put
a collect call through
for you.
But it's more expensive
than making
a local phone call.
I should caution you
about that.
Yeah,
but they claim
to be the lowest cost
collect service.
Not local.
Oh, local.
I don't think
they beat
local prices.
I don't think
they do.
Do you know if the
number you called
before,
the AT&T number,
was that,
I was trying
to understand
you and the operator,
I think you were
talking about
the same thing.
Yeah,
I think so.
It happens a lot
when I talk
to operators.
But it sounded
to me as though
the surcharge
wasn't because
you were using
the 800 number
versus dialing,
but it was using
any operator-assisted
call rather than
dialing,
you know,
one plus.
That's a possibility,
but,
you know,
I don't think
that's true.
I'll look at the
documentation.
I have it in front
of me,
and I'll see
if it's true.
So,
I don't know
about this.
You know,
you can always
call them up
and ask them
yourself.
Do you know if
that can be
used within
the ladder,
or is that
the problem
she was having
with that number?
Um,
it can be used
within the ladder,
certainly,
but she was
getting confused
because the
same number
was making
the call
as was
receiving the
call.
And,
at the moment,
I believe there
is a surcharge
if you use that,
if you don't tell
them that
there's no other
way for you to
make this call.
But,
give it a try.
Good evening.
Hi.
How you doing?
Okay.
How are you?
I'm fine.
That's good.
Um,
I have a question
about public
phones.
Okay.
Um,
I went,
I was using
one the other
day,
and I was
trying to figure
out what
a public
phone should
sound like,
right?
And,
when I,
when I first
called
information,
uh,
directory
assistance
to,
um,
to get the
number that
I wanted,
it didn't,
it didn't
sound like
the 411.
The first
digit sounded
like a pound
sign.
And,
the first
digit was
off,
too.
But,
I also got
through to the
proper number,
you know.
It sounded
like maybe
more than
one digit was
off,
but.
Well,
did it dial
more digits
than the
ones you
hit?
Um,
no.
But,
just like
when I,
when I dial
411,
uh,
for the
most,
yeah,
they were the
standard touch
tones,
but,
um.
Because some
phones play
musical tones
in place of
touch tones
thinking that
you might like
that better.
No,
this wasn't
that.
This was
just that the
first digit
was always
off.
Uh-huh.
Um,
but it kept
giving me
that.
But it does
always go
through.
Did they
scramble the
digits?
Well,
you know what I
mean.
When you hit
the digit
that you,
and you're
expecting to
hear the
way it
sounds,
it doesn't.
It sounds
screwy.
Exactly,
yeah,
that's what
happened.
But not
all of them
were like
that.
Yeah,
it's weird and
interesting.
I'd like to
know more
about it.
I also,
just quickly,
I have a
tactic of
dealing with,
you know,
one long
distance
company or
another.
You know,
you choose
the one you're
going to
choose,
and that's
it.
I don't
really think
one is
better than
any other
or whatever.
I think
the best
thing to do
is to
just hang
up on
them without
a word.
Because MCI
keeps doing it
to me,
they won't
quit.
You should
be polite
when you do
it,
because these
are human
beings making
the calls.
But if
they consistently
do it and
they don't
let up,
then you'd
be rude.
It's gotten
to the point
where you
don't want to
receive any
more further
calls.
They might
give you a
number that
you should
call to
stop the
calls yourself.
But there's
a list you
can be put
on.
I can try
to get
information for
that for
next week.
But you
should be
cautioned
that that
puts you
on another
list of
calls.
We'll be back
again next
week talking
about some
other telecommunications
nightmares and
advances and
things like
that.
We'll also be
looking into
the acquisition
or the 20%
interest of
British Telecom
into MCI
that took
place today.
I'll let you
know what
that means
for all of
us in the
future.
In the
meantime,
this is
Emanuel
for the
WBAI
Evening
News.
This is
WBAI
New York.
Good evening.
In the news
tonight is a
battle weary
Clinton backpedaling
on the
controversial
Lanny Guineer
nomination.
The execution of
a black man in
the U.S.
is a
major
issue.
More cities
are getting
fed up with
panhandlers who
can't take no
for an answer.
And in New
Jersey,
dredging begins
in Port Newark
and Port Elizabeth.
Environmentalists
say the damage
may be
irreversible.
With these
and other
stories,
I'm Laura
Seidel in
New York with
Verna Avery
Brown in
Washington.
And this is
WBAI News.