Off The Hook - 1993-09-08

[00:06.530 --> 00:07.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: Here is a box.
[00:08.050 --> 00:09.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: A musical box.
[00:09.270 --> 00:10.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: Wound up and ready to play.
[00:13.230 --> 00:13.670]  [SPEAKER_19]: Music.
[00:13.890 --> 00:14.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: A shortcut.
[00:14.970 --> 00:17.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: Ever since I was a kid, Alice, I liked music.
[00:17.650 --> 00:19.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: Especially popular music.
[00:20.290 --> 00:22.030]  [SPEAKER_23]: When I was growing up, that's all I did.
[00:22.030 --> 00:23.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: I used to eat, sleep and think music.
[00:24.010 --> 00:26.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: I wasn't like those other bums around the neighborhood, you know.
[00:26.890 --> 00:29.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hanging around the pool room or hanging out in the corner.
[00:29.390 --> 00:29.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Not me.
[00:29.850 --> 00:33.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: Every night and a week, I was up some ballroom listening to a dance band.
[00:34.210 --> 00:34.610]  Music.
[00:35.350 --> 00:39.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: I find it's best not to judge a man by the size of his house or the clothes he wears.
[00:40.170 --> 00:44.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's better to judge a chap by what he says and does, or even by his choice in music and paintings.
[00:44.650 --> 00:46.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm rather lost when it comes to the arts.
[00:46.590 --> 00:48.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's why I picked a subject that I know.
[00:49.130 --> 00:49.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: Popular songs.
[00:50.150 --> 00:51.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: I know all about popular songs.
[00:51.870 --> 00:53.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: I know, Ralph, but you're not an expert.
[00:53.850 --> 00:55.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: What do you mean I'm not an expert?
[00:56.430 --> 00:59.410]  [SPEAKER_19]: Tune in for a very special All Mixed Up.
[00:59.850 --> 01:02.010]  [SPEAKER_19]: Beginning Monday morning, 9.30 a.m.
[01:02.430 --> 01:05.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: Here on listener-supported WBAI-FM.
[01:05.490 --> 01:07.550]  [SPEAKER_19]: Non-commercial radio in New York.
[01:07.870 --> 01:08.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: You could love it.
[01:08.630 --> 01:09.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: Do you realize what you're hearing?
[01:10.050 --> 01:11.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'll play it again.
[01:13.350 --> 01:17.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's 10 o'clock, and that means it's time for Off the Hook.
[01:17.390 --> 01:19.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Here on WBAI, New York.
[01:25.740 --> 01:30.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:31.180 --> 01:35.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[01:36.700 --> 01:38.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: It couldn't get much worse.
[01:40.750 --> 01:44.010]  [SPEAKER_21]: Wood from Diddley-Bum, but the best is paid for worse.
[01:44.550 --> 01:47.590]  [SPEAKER_21]: I hope that's understood from Diddley-Bum.
[02:44.050 --> 02:45.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:45.830 --> 02:47.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[02:47.170 --> 03:04.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: The program is Off the Hook, where we meet once a week to discuss the latest in the rapidly changing world of high technology, your telephones, the computers that are carefully keeping track of it all, and the human beings that are running around thinking they're in control.
[03:05.430 --> 03:09.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we welcome your phone calls at 212-279-3400.
[03:09.650 --> 03:11.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Some sad news.
[03:11.350 --> 03:15.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: A couple of well-known computer hackers of New York are now in prison.
[03:16.190 --> 03:30.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Acid Freak and Scorpion, who have on many occasions sat in on this very radio program, were sent someplace, I'm not really sure exactly where, for the horrible crime of conspiracy.
[03:30.910 --> 03:39.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Conspiracy is something we all commit week after week on this particular radio program, all the time on this particular radio station, and I'm sure we all do it at some point.
[03:40.590 --> 03:54.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: When it comes to computer hackers, when it comes to people that know a little too much, or know things that other people don't understand and don't realize the full implications of, it becomes all the more dangerous and actually seems like a crime.
[03:54.030 --> 04:03.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: In this particular case, two people that didn't even have computers, that just talked to people on the phone, were convicted of a crime that nobody understood.
[04:03.410 --> 04:17.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: And to give you an example of this, at the sentencing, which took place a few weeks ago, one of these hackers tried in vain to explain to the judge how a particular computer system worked.
[04:17.290 --> 04:27.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: The judge said to this particular hacker, well, there's no way that this other person could have possibly posted all of this information in this particular time period.
[04:27.710 --> 04:28.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: It had to be you.
[04:28.550 --> 04:30.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: It couldn't just have been this one person.
[04:30.050 --> 04:36.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: He was only on for five minutes or so, and he posted pages and pages of material.
[04:36.490 --> 04:38.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: How could he possibly have typed all that in?
[04:38.670 --> 04:50.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, of course, the hacker tried to explain the concept of buffering, concept of sending massive amounts of data over the modem that you type offline and then send online.
[04:51.110 --> 04:53.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the judge just could not believe that was possible.
[04:54.110 --> 04:56.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, these people are in control.
[04:56.450 --> 05:01.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're the ones that are sentencing people to jail and not understanding the technology.
[05:02.330 --> 05:08.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: They see something, they see a program being copied, and they believe it's the same thing as something being physically stolen.
[05:08.670 --> 05:15.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: They don't understand the concept of copying data, of sending data without actually typing it yourself.
[05:16.410 --> 05:36.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic if people, like our two friends, were not wasting time in a confined environment, which they will be in for the next six months, followed by six months of, I believe it's home detention or some kind of addiction treatment or something bizarre like that.
[05:37.290 --> 05:43.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, if anyone out there wants to write to these people, please write through us here at the radio program.
[05:43.310 --> 05:47.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Believe me, when you're in a place like that, you need all the support you can get.
[05:47.670 --> 05:48.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: You need to hear from people.
[05:48.970 --> 05:50.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: You need to know there's people out there that care.
[05:51.790 --> 05:57.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, feel free to send mail to either Acid Freak or Scorpion or both of them.
[05:57.290 --> 06:03.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, care of off the hook... I guess care of Emmanuel Goldstein slash off the hook.
[06:04.030 --> 06:05.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Probably make it into my mailbox a lot easier.
[06:06.750 --> 06:10.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: 505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
[06:10.230 --> 06:12.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's hope that this kind of thing stops.
[06:12.470 --> 06:14.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's been going on for quite some time.
[06:14.170 --> 06:17.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the closest home it's hit.
[06:17.670 --> 06:20.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, hopefully, it'll stop real soon.
[06:22.970 --> 06:25.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we have some experiments we're going to do tonight.
[06:25.670 --> 06:27.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, of course, we'll be taking phone calls in just a little bit.
[06:28.170 --> 06:32.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of times, people ask about telephone companies.
[06:32.310 --> 06:35.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: They ask, which phone company is the best?
[06:36.010 --> 06:41.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: And tonight, due to popular demand, we're going to try and find out.
[06:41.070 --> 06:49.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to ask each phone company a particular question and, hopefully, get an answer.
[06:49.970 --> 06:53.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: I know that sounds simple, but it's not that simple.
[06:53.470 --> 07:01.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: When you deal with phone companies, it can be extremely time-consuming, extremely frustrating, and also, to the benefit of all of us, extremely funny.
[07:01.450 --> 07:04.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, we've picked three long-distance companies at random.
[07:04.670 --> 07:07.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: AT&T, MCI, and Sprint.
[07:07.130 --> 07:11.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to call them all, well, one at a time, anyway.
[07:11.930 --> 07:13.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Although, it is fun when you call three of them at once.
[07:14.590 --> 07:20.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to ask them their rates to a particular exchange at a particular time.
[07:20.150 --> 07:23.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's say we're calling California.
[07:24.230 --> 07:25.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's fair, isn't it?
[07:25.990 --> 07:28.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, California, that sounds like a good place.
[07:29.150 --> 07:34.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Berkeley, our sister station in Berkeley, KPFA, which is the 510 area code.
[07:35.350 --> 07:40.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: We want to call them at the stroke of 11 o'clock tonight.
[07:40.470 --> 07:40.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: How's that?
[07:41.610 --> 07:45.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: 11 o'clock tonight, and we plan to speak for six minutes.
[07:46.550 --> 07:47.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Six-minute phone call.
[07:47.990 --> 07:48.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[07:49.110 --> 07:50.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: We need to know.
[07:50.650 --> 07:55.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, we don't have the phone number either, so we also need to know how much a call to information will cost through this phone company.
[07:57.310 --> 08:05.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to call AT&T, we're going to call Sprint, we're going to call MCI, and we're going to find out just what the story is.
[08:05.250 --> 08:07.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, let's get a dial tone online.
[08:07.430 --> 08:08.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do we have a dial tone?
[08:08.830 --> 08:10.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we have a dial tone there.
[08:11.250 --> 08:12.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Seems to be only coming in one ear.
[08:13.110 --> 08:14.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: See if we can get a two-ear dial tone.
[08:17.410 --> 08:17.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's better.
[08:18.030 --> 08:18.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[08:18.810 --> 08:20.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to call the number for AT&T.
[08:25.990 --> 08:29.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to start the timer now.
[08:33.260 --> 08:34.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wait a minute.
[08:36.260 --> 08:37.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: I hear something that doesn't really make much sense.
[08:37.980 --> 08:42.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: I hear a Mickey Mouse voice, and I hear a busy signal.
[08:42.440 --> 08:43.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Neither one of which I should be getting.
[08:43.860 --> 08:45.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is AT&T, after all.
[08:47.480 --> 08:49.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, for some reason, we're getting...
[08:50.260 --> 08:53.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're getting fast playback on a tape machine.
[08:54.920 --> 08:56.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't know why that is.
[08:56.400 --> 08:57.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, let's...
[08:58.180 --> 08:58.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: There we go.
[08:58.900 --> 09:00.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I think it was my fault.
[09:00.440 --> 09:01.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's try this one more time.
[09:03.820 --> 09:05.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, we're going to try it until we get through.
[09:11.060 --> 09:13.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: Technically, that should count against them, the busy signal.
[09:14.400 --> 09:15.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, here we go.
[09:36.260 --> 09:37.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: The clock is ticking.
[09:42.530 --> 09:44.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you for calling AT&T.
[09:45.290 --> 09:47.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: Currently, all of our representatives are busy.
[09:48.370 --> 09:54.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: Please hold for the next available representative, whose goal is to provide you with individualized service today.
[09:55.090 --> 09:56.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: You will not be disconnected.
[09:58.450 --> 10:01.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we have this pleasant music on hold.
[10:01.430 --> 10:02.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's okay.
[10:04.030 --> 10:05.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: The ticker is going.
[10:06.470 --> 10:08.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: AT&T is being judged based on this phone call.
[10:11.570 --> 10:14.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's ten after ten on a Wednesday night.
[10:14.150 --> 10:15.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how busy they could be.
[10:18.890 --> 10:21.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: In all fairness, that may be our static, not theirs.
[10:21.170 --> 10:21.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure.
[10:23.610 --> 10:24.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you for waiting.
[10:24.890 --> 10:28.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: All of our representatives are still assisting other AT&T customers.
[10:28.790 --> 10:32.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: The next available representative will be with you as soon as possible.
[10:32.130 --> 10:33.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you for your understanding.
[10:34.230 --> 10:36.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you continue to hold, you will not be disconnected.
[10:39.410 --> 10:41.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't believe that when I see it.
[10:47.750 --> 10:49.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we're approaching two minutes.
[10:51.150 --> 10:53.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Without even talking to someone yet.
[11:12.760 --> 11:13.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you for waiting.
[11:14.200 --> 11:17.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: All of our representatives are still assisting other AT&T customers.
[11:17.960 --> 11:21.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: The next available representative will be with you as soon as possible.
[11:21.800 --> 11:23.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you for your understanding.
[11:23.420 --> 11:26.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you continue to hold, you will not be disconnected.
[11:27.120 --> 11:33.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you continue to hold, you will continue to hold, is basically what they should be saying, I think.
[11:34.340 --> 11:35.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, this is all fine and good.
[11:36.380 --> 11:39.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hearing nice alternative type music on the radio here.
[11:40.720 --> 11:43.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm talking to one of my favorite long distance companies.
[11:47.270 --> 11:48.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: Should we set a cutoff?
[11:48.610 --> 11:50.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because we could be on all day.
[11:51.630 --> 11:52.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Two minutes?
[11:52.570 --> 11:53.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, four minutes.
[11:53.230 --> 11:55.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Four minutes sounds a little better because...
[11:55.130 --> 11:57.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, well, we have about, uh...
[11:57.970 --> 11:59.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, about one more minute.
[12:02.130 --> 12:03.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you for waiting.
[12:03.290 --> 12:03.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, boy.
[12:03.550 --> 12:06.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: All of our representatives are still assisting other AT&T customers.
[12:07.310 --> 12:10.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: The next available representative will be with you as soon as possible.
[12:11.050 --> 12:12.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you for your understanding.
[12:12.670 --> 12:15.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you continue to hold, you will not be disconnected.
[12:15.690 --> 12:17.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: How do they know I'm understanding?
[12:17.290 --> 12:18.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I'd like to know.
[12:18.530 --> 12:20.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: And who are all these people that always get in first, you know?
[12:21.670 --> 12:22.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: How did they get there?
[12:23.230 --> 12:24.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Other customers are being helped.
[12:24.650 --> 12:25.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Where are these other customers?
[12:28.290 --> 12:30.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: How many other customers are there that are being helped right now?
[12:33.740 --> 12:35.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we have about, uh...
[12:35.360 --> 12:36.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: 45 seconds.
[12:36.700 --> 12:37.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Ah, here we go.
[12:37.660 --> 12:38.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just made it.
[12:45.920 --> 12:47.320]  [SPEAKER_24]: AT&T, this is Andrea.
[12:47.480 --> 12:48.160]  [SPEAKER_24]: How may I help you?
[12:48.260 --> 12:49.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, yes, hello.
[12:49.340 --> 12:52.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm, uh, planning on making a telephone call to, um...
[12:52.860 --> 12:55.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, Berkeley, California, uh...
[12:55.320 --> 12:55.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[12:55.520 --> 12:56.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, from New York.
[12:56.480 --> 12:58.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'd like to know what the rate would be.
[12:59.280 --> 13:00.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, uh...
[13:00.180 --> 13:04.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm planning on staying on for six minutes, and I'm planning on making the call at 11 o'clock tonight.
[13:05.280 --> 13:07.080]  [SPEAKER_24]: Okay, sure, I'll get those rates for you.
[13:07.320 --> 13:08.640]  [SPEAKER_24]: Um, what is your area code and phone number?
[13:08.940 --> 13:14.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, well, I'm at, uh, 212-279-3400.
[13:14.260 --> 13:15.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm, I'm just gonna...
[13:15.160 --> 13:19.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have any special, uh, kinds of, um, of plans or anything like that.
[13:19.040 --> 13:21.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted to know what the actual rate would be.
[13:21.440 --> 13:22.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the regular rate, that's the word.
[13:28.860 --> 13:30.620]  [SPEAKER_24]: I want you to call California from New York.
[13:30.980 --> 13:32.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thirteen cents for the first minute, and...
[13:32.840 --> 13:33.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thirteen for each additional.
[13:33.980 --> 13:35.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, thirteen cents for any minute.
[13:35.940 --> 13:36.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh, that's correct.
[13:37.180 --> 13:43.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, and, uh, since I don't know the number yet that I'm going to be calling in Berkeley, I'll be needing to place a call to information.
[13:43.980 --> 13:44.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, how does that work?
[13:45.080 --> 13:48.760]  [SPEAKER_24]: Okay, what you need to do is, um, get the, the area code for Berkeley.
[13:49.060 --> 13:50.120]  [SPEAKER_24]: Um, I'll have to look that up for you.
[13:50.200 --> 13:50.860]  [SPEAKER_24]: I don't know it offhand.
[13:50.860 --> 13:54.800]  [SPEAKER_24]: I think it's, gosh, I think it's 916, but I'm not quite sure.
[13:55.000 --> 14:00.360]  [SPEAKER_24]: And then you would dial, uh, you would dial 1, the area code, and then 555-1212.
[14:00.600 --> 14:00.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[14:00.840 --> 14:08.240]  [SPEAKER_24]: And you would get an operator and that area code, and you would say, I need, um, they'd ask you the city, and you'd say Berkeley, and then you'd tell them the name of the party you're trying to call.
[14:08.400 --> 14:08.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[14:08.980 --> 14:09.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: To the phone number.
[14:10.140 --> 14:11.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, now, how much does that cost?
[14:12.120 --> 14:13.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: That cost 65 cents.
[14:13.640 --> 14:14.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: 65 cents.
[14:14.520 --> 14:18.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so in addition to the 13 cents per minute, I'll be paying 65 cents to get the number.
[14:19.020 --> 14:19.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Or directory assistance.
[14:19.900 --> 14:20.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[14:20.860 --> 14:22.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I, okay, I have the area code, it's 510.
[14:23.020 --> 14:24.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: It is 5, oh, it is 510.
[14:24.380 --> 14:24.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[14:25.100 --> 14:26.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so that's really all the information I need then.
[14:27.000 --> 14:27.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[14:27.440 --> 14:28.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, I'll be placing this call later.
[14:28.940 --> 14:31.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, well, thanks for using AT&T, we appreciate your business.
[14:31.140 --> 14:31.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, bye-bye.
[14:32.080 --> 14:32.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bye.
[14:33.240 --> 14:36.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, now we have, we have that information on how to make a call there.
[14:36.420 --> 14:39.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, we have to stop the timer at exactly that time.
[14:39.780 --> 14:43.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, that took about six minutes to find out their rates there.
[14:43.900 --> 14:49.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I hope that the other companies are a little bit more diligent as far as, uh, getting the information out, and we'll also see if they're cheaper.
[14:49.720 --> 14:52.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, let's, uh, let's make another phone call.
[14:52.720 --> 14:54.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: This one...
[14:54.720 --> 14:56.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going out to Sprint.
[14:59.940 --> 15:03.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's the only way to find things out is to go out there and do it yourself.
[15:10.500 --> 15:14.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you for calling Sprint, your worldwide communications provider.
[15:14.140 --> 15:18.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you are a business customer, please press six now.
[15:18.780 --> 15:24.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you are a residential customer, for account balance information, press one.
[15:24.260 --> 15:25.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wait a minute, what is that?
[15:25.140 --> 15:28.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: For phone card information or international dialing instructions, press two.
[15:29.120 --> 15:30.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: That was an unfinished if there.
[15:30.740 --> 15:31.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: ...information, press three.
[15:32.400 --> 15:35.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: For billing and product information, press four.
[15:35.680 --> 15:42.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: For other inquiries or to speak to a customer service representative at any time, press the star key or hold on the line.
[15:43.460 --> 15:46.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: To hear this selection menu again, press eight.
[15:47.360 --> 15:50.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to hear it again, but we don't have a Touch-Tone phone, so we're going to just wait.
[15:51.640 --> 15:54.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: One moment, please, while we connect you to a representative.
[15:54.720 --> 15:55.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[15:55.180 --> 15:55.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you very much.
[15:56.400 --> 15:57.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, this is what I call music.
[15:58.200 --> 16:00.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you for calling Sprint customer service.
[16:00.440 --> 16:01.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is Nancy Maddox.
[16:01.580 --> 16:02.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: How may I help you?
[16:02.340 --> 16:03.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, yes.
[16:03.760 --> 16:04.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're not a recording?
[16:04.820 --> 16:05.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, I'm not.
[16:05.740 --> 16:05.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, great.
[16:06.000 --> 16:06.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[16:06.560 --> 16:07.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I'd like to know...
[16:07.680 --> 16:14.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm planning on placing a call later tonight, uh, to Berkeley, California from New York, and I'd like to know what your rates are.
[16:14.880 --> 16:16.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'd be happy to get that information.
[16:16.640 --> 16:19.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: If I could please have your area code and phone number?
[16:19.180 --> 16:19.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[16:19.560 --> 16:22.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: I am at 212-279-3400.
[16:26.030 --> 16:27.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I plan to stay on for six minutes.
[16:29.070 --> 16:29.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[16:29.810 --> 16:30.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[16:34.560 --> 16:35.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[16:35.100 --> 16:37.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do you happen to have the area code and prefix in Berkeley?
[16:37.640 --> 16:39.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, well, I have the area code.
[16:39.440 --> 16:40.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't yet know the number.
[16:40.560 --> 16:42.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: I know it's 510 area code.
[16:42.240 --> 16:42.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[16:42.780 --> 16:43.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[16:46.600 --> 16:47.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, sir.
[16:47.560 --> 16:51.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: A six-minute call, um, from 5 to 11 p.m.
[16:52.020 --> 16:53.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: would be 88 cents.
[16:54.500 --> 16:56.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, after 11 p.m.
[16:56.620 --> 16:59.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: until 8 a.m., it would be 76 cents.
[16:59.540 --> 17:00.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so...
[17:00.420 --> 17:00.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Six minutes.
[17:00.920 --> 17:01.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[17:01.320 --> 17:02.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: How much is that per minute?
[17:02.900 --> 17:09.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, the evening is 14 cents per minute, and the night weekend rate is 12 cents per minute.
[17:09.240 --> 17:10.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: 12 cents per minute.
[17:10.460 --> 17:10.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[17:10.880 --> 17:11.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[17:11.300 --> 17:12.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, AT&T is charging 13.
[17:13.640 --> 17:14.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh.
[17:14.240 --> 17:14.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[17:14.640 --> 17:15.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just figured I should let you know that.
[17:16.220 --> 17:21.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, now, I don't yet know the number, but I'm planning on calling, uh, information to find out.
[17:21.220 --> 17:23.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know how much it would cost to call information through Sprint?
[17:23.340 --> 17:24.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: It is 65 cents.
[17:25.060 --> 17:25.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: 65 cents.
[17:26.040 --> 17:26.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[17:26.600 --> 17:28.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I add that to the 76 cents, and that would be the total cost.
[17:29.220 --> 17:29.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Exactly.
[17:29.980 --> 17:30.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[17:30.300 --> 17:30.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[17:30.640 --> 17:31.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: You've been very helpful.
[17:31.480 --> 17:31.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[17:31.900 --> 17:32.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: We appreciate your inquiry.
[17:32.960 --> 17:33.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[17:33.260 --> 17:33.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bye-bye.
[17:33.740 --> 17:33.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Goodbye.
[17:35.080 --> 17:36.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Boy, you know, that voice.
[17:37.000 --> 17:37.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[17:37.360 --> 17:38.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is there something haunting about it?
[17:38.640 --> 17:39.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: She was so...
[17:39.940 --> 17:41.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Ah, what's the word?
[17:41.680 --> 17:42.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I don't know.
[17:42.760 --> 17:44.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: I felt like she was inside my head.
[17:44.940 --> 17:45.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[17:45.300 --> 17:47.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: That only took, uh, two and a half minutes.
[17:47.520 --> 17:50.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sprint so far is leading not only in time, but in cost.
[17:50.320 --> 17:52.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: First, uh, the call would cost 76 cents.
[17:53.080 --> 17:55.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, information cost almost as much as a six-minute call.
[17:56.240 --> 17:57.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, um, well, let's see.
[17:58.060 --> 18:00.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: How much, uh, would, um, seven...
[18:00.700 --> 18:00.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[18:00.880 --> 18:03.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: We saved two cents?
[18:03.720 --> 18:03.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
[18:03.840 --> 18:04.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: We must have saved more than that.
[18:04.680 --> 18:05.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: We saved...
[18:05.220 --> 18:12.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think she added wrong, because if you multiply 12 times six, no, you do get seven...
[18:12.180 --> 18:13.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, you get 72.
[18:13.920 --> 18:15.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how she got 76.
[18:17.160 --> 18:17.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[18:17.500 --> 18:21.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, AT&T would cost 78 cents for the call, and 72 cents on Sprint.
[18:22.140 --> 18:22.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[18:23.080 --> 18:23.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Am I wrong?
[18:24.240 --> 18:24.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
[18:24.920 --> 18:28.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have, we have someone here who seems to know about this arithmetic.
[18:28.400 --> 18:28.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[18:28.840 --> 18:37.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I'm just thinking to myself that people, uh, you lose your friends' numbers, you should just call other friends long distance and relatives and ask them for the numbers.
[18:37.400 --> 18:38.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: 12 cents a minute.
[18:38.260 --> 18:38.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no.
[18:38.720 --> 18:39.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's total strangers.
[18:40.020 --> 18:42.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: You call a total stranger and say, excuse me, I'm from out of town.
[18:42.620 --> 18:46.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Could you possibly just look in your phone book and tell me the number of this person?
[18:46.300 --> 18:52.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: And most times, I mean, if I got a call like that, it's better than a sales call from AT&T asking me if I want to sign up for Reach Out America.
[18:53.360 --> 18:57.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'd gladly open the phone book, and it doesn't cost me anything, and you make a friend maybe.
[18:57.340 --> 19:01.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, but wouldn't you hate to have a call like that, you know, coming up in your meal, you're eating dinner, and the phone rings?
[19:01.860 --> 19:01.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[19:02.060 --> 19:04.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, it's inconvenient no matter what you do.
[19:04.720 --> 19:05.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, we have one more call.
[19:05.860 --> 19:06.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: One more call to make.
[19:07.060 --> 19:09.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: And this one is to our good friends.
[19:09.680 --> 19:11.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Our real good friends over at MCI.
[19:13.760 --> 19:14.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh...
[19:14.400 --> 19:15.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's give them a call.
[19:19.480 --> 19:20.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a real good number.
[19:22.960 --> 19:25.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you for calling MCI Customer Service.
[19:25.120 --> 19:25.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: My name is Andy.
[19:26.280 --> 19:29.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: To better assist you, may I please have your home area code and telephone number?
[19:29.740 --> 19:30.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[19:30.560 --> 19:31.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: My, uh...
[19:31.520 --> 19:35.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, the number I'm at right now is 212-279-3400.
[19:35.380 --> 19:39.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: And what I'm calling about is I'm planning on making a telephone call at 11 p.m.
[19:39.860 --> 19:43.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: tonight from where I am now to Berkeley, California.
[19:43.400 --> 19:45.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm going to be staying on for six minutes.
[19:45.760 --> 19:47.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'd just like to know how much that will cost.
[19:47.980 --> 19:48.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, just a moment.
[19:48.980 --> 19:49.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[20:06.310 --> 20:08.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of static on this line, I've noticed.
[20:12.590 --> 20:14.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if she's still there, but, uh...
[20:14.150 --> 20:15.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: She sure picked up fast.
[20:15.170 --> 20:15.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: No rings or anything.
[20:17.930 --> 20:18.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Ah, there she is.
[20:19.090 --> 20:19.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm here.
[20:19.750 --> 20:19.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[20:20.030 --> 20:20.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't sure there.
[20:21.010 --> 20:21.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's all right.
[20:22.070 --> 20:24.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Your number is 212-279-3400.
[20:24.950 --> 20:26.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Did I tell you that, or did you figure that out?
[20:26.890 --> 20:27.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: You told me.
[20:27.570 --> 20:28.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, good.
[20:28.310 --> 20:28.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[20:29.370 --> 20:30.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, do you have MCI for long distance?
[20:31.370 --> 20:31.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, no.
[20:31.890 --> 20:33.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have any plans or anything like that.
[20:33.230 --> 20:36.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll just be making a casual call, uh, using MCI.
[20:36.550 --> 20:36.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[20:37.290 --> 20:39.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because I don't show that as having an account in MCI.
[20:40.010 --> 20:40.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Ah, no.
[20:40.690 --> 20:41.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think we do.
[20:42.150 --> 20:43.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd just like to know how much it would cost per minute.
[20:44.350 --> 20:44.670]  Okay.
[20:49.250 --> 20:51.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're going to be dialing this directly from your home, aren't you?
[20:51.390 --> 20:52.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we'll be dialing it directly from this number, yes.
[20:52.950 --> 20:56.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, the number is 212-279, that's all I need.
[20:56.510 --> 20:56.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[20:57.530 --> 20:59.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the number that you'll be calling, too.
[20:59.330 --> 21:03.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's area code 510, and I don't have any more information other than that.
[21:03.690 --> 21:05.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: You don't have the first three digits?
[21:05.550 --> 21:10.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, well, I mean, I could just say, uh, 222 or something.
[21:10.830 --> 21:11.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm pretty sure.
[21:11.630 --> 21:12.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's something like that, anyway.
[21:13.630 --> 21:14.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: That'll probably work in the computer.
[21:15.210 --> 21:16.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, where's that to?
[21:16.370 --> 21:16.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: To California?
[21:17.150 --> 21:17.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Berkeley, California.
[21:18.110 --> 21:22.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, I got it to Esselburton, California?
[21:22.070 --> 21:22.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: California?
[21:22.530 --> 21:22.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[21:23.950 --> 21:28.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: L, L San Burton, California?
[21:29.390 --> 21:30.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Semi, it's close in the area.
[21:30.950 --> 21:31.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, I'm sure it's...
[21:31.610 --> 21:32.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're going to make this...
[21:32.290 --> 21:33.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: What time are you going to make this call?
[21:33.390 --> 21:34.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, at the stroke of 11.
[21:34.890 --> 21:38.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: At the stroke of 11, that call is going to cost for 6 minutes 75 cents.
[21:39.130 --> 21:40.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: And what is the cost per minute on that?
[21:41.290 --> 21:41.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello?
[21:41.970 --> 21:43.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the cost per minute for that call?
[21:44.370 --> 21:45.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: Per minute is 12 cents.
[21:46.090 --> 21:47.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: 12 cents per minute.
[21:47.050 --> 21:47.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, that's good.
[21:48.050 --> 21:51.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: And now, I need to call information, too, to get the number in the first place.
[21:51.850 --> 21:53.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to know what you charge for information.
[21:53.990 --> 21:54.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Excuse me?
[21:54.830 --> 21:56.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to know what you charge for information.
[21:56.590 --> 21:59.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll be making a call to information to find out what the number is.
[21:59.650 --> 22:00.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: I need to call 11.
[22:00.530 --> 22:02.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Do you have MCI for a long-distance carrier?
[22:03.050 --> 22:05.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, well, I'm going to route the call through MCI.
[22:05.270 --> 22:05.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[22:05.990 --> 22:08.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, um, to...
[22:08.090 --> 22:10.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: For information, MCI charges 64 cents.
[22:11.090 --> 22:11.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: 64 cents.
[22:11.810 --> 22:14.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, that's great, because all the other carriers charge 65.
[22:15.010 --> 22:18.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I know that might not seem like much, but I make a lot of calls to information, and...
[22:18.670 --> 22:19.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it adds up.
[22:19.350 --> 22:20.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: It adds up, yeah.
[22:20.190 --> 22:20.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: It sure does.
[22:21.270 --> 22:23.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Would you like to have MCI for your long-distance carrier?
[22:23.710 --> 22:27.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, I'd like to, but I'm not authorized to say one way or the other.
[22:27.710 --> 22:28.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'll have to, you know...
[22:28.830 --> 22:30.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll see how the call goes, and then I can call you back.
[22:31.150 --> 22:31.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[22:31.710 --> 22:31.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[22:31.990 --> 22:32.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks very much for your help.
[22:32.730 --> 22:33.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Again, my name is Andy.
[22:33.490 --> 22:34.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you for calling MCI.
[22:34.830 --> 22:35.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: Andy?
[22:35.130 --> 22:35.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, thank you very much.
[22:36.010 --> 22:36.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're welcome.
[22:36.550 --> 22:36.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bye-bye.
[22:42.070 --> 22:43.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: If we...
[22:43.790 --> 22:46.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I think we pretty much tied there.
[22:46.370 --> 22:47.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, actually, we didn't tie.
[22:47.270 --> 22:48.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: They were a bit behind.
[22:48.650 --> 22:52.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sprint came out in first place for service with two and a half minutes.
[22:52.750 --> 22:54.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: MCI, three and a half minutes.
[22:54.570 --> 22:59.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: AT&T, looks like just under six minutes.
[22:59.710 --> 23:01.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: AT&T also being the most expensive.
[23:01.870 --> 23:06.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: The call to California would cost $1.43, including the call to information.
[23:06.770 --> 23:09.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: 78 cents for the call, 65 cents for information.
[23:09.390 --> 23:13.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, Sprint would be $1.37 altogether.
[23:14.010 --> 23:17.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: 72 cents for the call, 65 cents for the call to information.
[23:17.990 --> 23:24.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: And MCI, 75 cents for the call, 64 cents for information, $1.39.
[23:24.850 --> 23:27.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, looks like Sprint is the winner here.
[23:27.850 --> 23:29.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're cheaper, they're faster.
[23:30.170 --> 23:34.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: But MCI does undercut everybody else for that call to information.
[23:34.710 --> 23:39.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, everybody else, uh, lags way behind.
[23:39.510 --> 23:41.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's, that's big savings there.
[23:41.530 --> 23:44.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to know if that, uh, if that's reflected on your phone bill.
[23:45.030 --> 23:46.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-279-3400.
[23:46.610 --> 23:57.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to be taking some phone calls if you have any questions concerning various, various, uh, phone things or, uh, other technology-related things.
[23:57.450 --> 23:58.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Give us a call.
[24:04.670 --> 24:05.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Who's out there?
[24:05.670 --> 24:06.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening.
[24:06.950 --> 24:07.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, hi.
[24:07.570 --> 24:07.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: How you doing?
[24:08.330 --> 24:09.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, okay, just a couple of comments.
[24:10.190 --> 24:14.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, one, you could probably get an AT&T response much faster if you, you know, call the 00 operator.
[24:15.430 --> 24:21.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah, you know, I was thinking of doing that, but I can't do the same thing for the other carriers.
[24:21.450 --> 24:28.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, we have carrier access codes blocked here, so, uh, it's quite possible that, uh, that they would have an unfair advantage if I did that.
[24:29.490 --> 24:31.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah, that's probably the case.
[24:31.250 --> 24:34.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I'd still have to call the 800 numbers for the other carriers, and then that would take longer.
[24:35.370 --> 24:47.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I think, though, that AT&T has it set up such that their routing works much better for using an access code in 00 because the other carriers worry more about the, uh, 800 numbers since they have less of an established base.
[24:47.410 --> 24:47.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[24:48.010 --> 24:48.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, I don't know.
[24:48.850 --> 24:53.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it would be nice to just be able to select, um, a particular carrier and connect to the operator.
[24:53.430 --> 24:58.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: The operator actually knows more about the call, although these days the operator doesn't really know all that much about calls either.
[24:59.390 --> 25:02.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, but I probably would have gotten a faster answer going through the operator direct.
[25:02.890 --> 25:03.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you're right about that.
[25:04.590 --> 25:08.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the, uh, other thing is sort of an internal remark about, uh, names of operators.
[25:08.270 --> 25:14.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: You notice that, um, AT&T and Sprint gave you, the operators gave you the first names, and MCI gave you the full name.
[25:15.670 --> 25:16.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Did they?
[25:16.450 --> 25:20.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and it's sort of interesting if you ever want to make a complaint about an operator...
[25:20.910 --> 25:21.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[25:21.250 --> 25:32.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: ...or anything like that, you'll find, I found that some AT&T operators will slightly refuse to give you any information about them whatsoever, and after pestering them for a long time, they will give you their operator number if you really yell.
[25:32.670 --> 25:37.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: They are supposed to give you something, and the operator number is kind of like a badge number, I guess, and they do that.
[25:38.010 --> 25:39.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, some operators answer with numbers.
[25:39.990 --> 25:44.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: I know New Jersey, um, information operators answer with numbers, or at least they did.
[25:44.630 --> 25:46.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's, uh, that's how you keep track of them.
[25:46.570 --> 25:48.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, actually, though, AT&T isn't worse.
[25:48.330 --> 25:51.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: All the normal operators have operator numbers, and presumably they're required to give them to you.
[25:51.550 --> 25:53.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: But if you speak to a supervisor...
[25:53.290 --> 25:53.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[25:54.150 --> 25:55.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: ...supervisors have no identification whatsoever.
[25:56.390 --> 25:56.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Really?
[25:56.950 --> 25:59.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've had supervisors identify themselves to me.
[25:59.150 --> 26:00.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think they're supposed to.
[26:00.470 --> 26:01.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you know, uh, let's see.
[26:02.050 --> 26:06.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you ask them, who am I speaking with, and they can't just say the supervisor, because that's silly, you know?
[26:06.350 --> 26:07.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can't say, well, Mr. Supervisor...
[26:07.970 --> 26:11.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: Something like Kim from the Phoenix Supervisor Center, or something.
[26:11.270 --> 26:11.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[26:11.530 --> 26:12.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: ...which was utterly useless.
[26:12.790 --> 26:13.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, you know how many...
[26:13.890 --> 26:15.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: There are probably tons of Kims.
[26:15.230 --> 26:15.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
[26:15.690 --> 26:16.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: There probably are tons of Kims.
[26:17.190 --> 26:19.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, this is actually when I was trying to...
[26:19.430 --> 26:21.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was speaking to AT&T sometime last month.
[26:21.650 --> 26:30.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was asking if there was any way I could, uh, convert between a, uh, find out what the rate from a payphone would be as compared to the rate from a residential.
[26:30.430 --> 26:30.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[26:31.970 --> 26:33.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: A residential phone, given that I knew one of the numbers.
[26:34.270 --> 26:34.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[26:34.690 --> 26:37.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: And they were utterly unable to provide information after.
[26:37.110 --> 26:46.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's amazing how many times you'll, uh, you'll just run into, uh, uh, dead ends as far as, uh, as far as getting answers, straight answers on any question.
[26:47.830 --> 26:49.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, the rates, it's an easy question.
[26:50.030 --> 26:50.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's their company.
[26:50.730 --> 26:51.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what they do.
[26:51.890 --> 26:53.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: So getting rates should not be that hard.
[26:53.910 --> 27:01.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, I think there should be some sort of a number where you call up and maybe a machine tells you these things and you, of course, you need to have a Touch-Tone phone for that or maybe it could be voice-activated as well.
[27:02.430 --> 27:06.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you give it basically the same information I gave and maybe it'll work faster.
[27:06.670 --> 27:07.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it won't.
[27:07.250 --> 27:07.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[27:08.630 --> 27:11.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it might probably be trivial for them and easier for them.
[27:12.390 --> 27:13.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's true.
[27:13.250 --> 27:16.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's very difficult these days to find out just how much it costs.
[27:16.910 --> 27:19.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you see these rate sheets and they give you the mileage.
[27:19.390 --> 27:24.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: They stay between 1 and 500 miles this, 1 and, you know, 500 and 799 miles that.
[27:24.350 --> 27:26.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, I don't know how far away I am from anywhere.
[27:27.470 --> 27:30.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's not going to be easy to figure it out.
[27:30.850 --> 27:32.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's making the customer do all the work.
[27:33.110 --> 27:33.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's true.
[27:33.570 --> 27:35.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: You also have to be using the same maps they're using.
[27:35.290 --> 27:35.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[27:37.270 --> 27:38.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, any other questions?
[27:38.470 --> 27:39.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, that's it for me.
[27:39.230 --> 27:40.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[27:41.490 --> 27:42.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's go to another call.
[27:42.770 --> 27:43.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're on Off the Hook.
[27:45.330 --> 27:45.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, hello?
[27:46.150 --> 27:46.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead.
[27:47.530 --> 27:48.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, I would like to...
[27:48.710 --> 27:49.090]  Yes, hello?
[27:49.430 --> 27:49.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello?
[27:49.810 --> 27:50.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: Turn down your radio.
[27:51.050 --> 27:51.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I will.
[27:52.550 --> 27:52.770]  Hello?
[27:53.010 --> 27:53.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hold on for a minute.
[27:53.870 --> 27:54.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[27:54.450 --> 27:56.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: It gets very confusing when people have the radio on at the same time.
[27:56.770 --> 27:57.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[27:57.410 --> 27:57.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: There we go.
[28:10.190 --> 28:11.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, you've made a mistake.
[28:11.650 --> 28:15.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: First of all, of course, the dashes you don't need, but it's not City Code 200.
[28:15.350 --> 28:16.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's City Code 20.
[28:17.950 --> 28:18.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: What?
[28:18.730 --> 28:19.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'll read you the number.
[28:20.010 --> 28:20.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Ready?
[28:20.310 --> 28:20.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[28:20.470 --> 28:21.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: 011.
[28:21.790 --> 28:22.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: 011.
[28:22.510 --> 28:23.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: To get overseas.
[28:23.430 --> 28:24.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Country Code 31.
[28:25.390 --> 28:26.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's 31.
[28:26.410 --> 28:28.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: City Code 20, 2-0.
[28:28.490 --> 28:29.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, 20.
[28:29.470 --> 28:29.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[28:30.010 --> 28:31.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: 2-0.
[28:31.930 --> 28:32.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just 20, yeah.
[28:32.770 --> 28:32.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[28:33.390 --> 28:33.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then...
[28:33.970 --> 28:34.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.
[28:34.570 --> 28:34.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[28:34.930 --> 28:36.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: 6-0-0-1-4-8-0.
[28:37.070 --> 28:39.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: You had everything right except for the 2-0 part.
[28:39.370 --> 28:40.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: 8-0.
[28:40.590 --> 28:40.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[28:41.290 --> 28:41.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[28:41.450 --> 28:43.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: And how come...
[28:43.630 --> 28:46.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can I get it locally in this country?
[28:46.710 --> 28:47.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not that I know of.
[28:48.010 --> 28:50.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: As far as I know, they're the only people making that thing.
[28:50.290 --> 28:51.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's a kit, actually.
[28:51.850 --> 28:52.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, it's a kit.
[28:52.630 --> 28:53.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so you have to do some soldering.
[28:54.570 --> 28:57.090]  Oh, but they used to make it in this country, right?
[28:57.590 --> 28:59.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, people make things like that, but it's...
[28:59.490 --> 29:01.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm saying they used to have it available in this country.
[29:01.190 --> 29:01.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no.
[29:02.190 --> 29:04.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hack-Tic of Holland never had it available in this country.
[29:04.410 --> 29:06.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: They'll send it to this country, but they don't produce it here.
[29:07.510 --> 29:08.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: How much did it cost?
[29:08.350 --> 29:14.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, it costs, uh, 350 Deutschmarks, which I think translates to about 250 U.S. dollars.
[29:15.430 --> 29:16.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think.
[29:16.570 --> 29:18.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: You could send it to them, the U.S. dollars overseas, right?
[29:19.970 --> 29:21.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, sure, you can always do that.
[29:21.470 --> 29:21.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[29:21.730 --> 29:23.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: But you should call them first and work it out.
[29:24.010 --> 29:25.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, okay.
[29:25.050 --> 29:30.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: And one more thing, um, about the black box and all that stuff.
[29:30.190 --> 29:30.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[29:30.690 --> 29:31.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, let's see.
[29:32.010 --> 29:32.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: The black box.
[29:33.210 --> 29:38.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, let's see, there was this place called a magazine, what, oh, 2000, 2000, something like that?
[29:38.350 --> 29:41.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: What, uh, was that a magazine they sell it?
[29:41.730 --> 29:42.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, 2000.
[29:42.490 --> 29:43.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: You don't mean 2600, do you?
[29:44.130 --> 29:44.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, 2600.
[29:44.890 --> 29:45.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[29:45.690 --> 29:46.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, yes, what about it?
[29:46.830 --> 29:48.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: You need to know where you can find it?
[29:48.310 --> 29:49.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: I already got that information.
[29:51.750 --> 29:52.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's another place, Loompanics, yeah.
[29:52.550 --> 29:53.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, right.
[29:53.330 --> 29:53.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Loompanics catalog.
[29:54.530 --> 29:55.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, okay.
[29:55.410 --> 29:55.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[29:55.750 --> 29:57.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, look, uh, you got a good show, man.
[29:57.570 --> 29:58.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[29:58.670 --> 29:59.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good work.
[29:59.430 --> 29:59.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Take care.
[30:00.030 --> 30:00.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bye-bye.
[30:01.170 --> 30:03.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, we, uh, got some information out there, didn't we?
[30:03.670 --> 30:08.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, let's, uh, see if we can help this next person who's waiting for us right now on the phone.
[30:08.350 --> 30:09.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening.
[30:09.450 --> 30:10.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're on.
[30:10.690 --> 30:11.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hello.
[30:11.310 --> 30:11.630]  [SPEAKER_17]: How you doing?
[30:11.710 --> 30:17.450]  [SPEAKER_17]: Regarding different long-distance companies, I called today a company called LCI because they had been recommended on the Internet.
[30:18.030 --> 30:18.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: LCI?
[30:19.330 --> 30:19.810]  [SPEAKER_17]: LCI.
[30:20.350 --> 30:22.190]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, apparently they're well-known in the Midwest.
[30:22.490 --> 30:22.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[30:23.210 --> 30:25.310]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, and I was asking different things.
[30:25.410 --> 30:27.490]  [SPEAKER_17]: Of course, the guy is telling me how good everything is.
[30:27.550 --> 30:30.130]  [SPEAKER_17]: They already sent me literature about their fiber optics network, et cetera.
[30:30.290 --> 30:34.830]  [SPEAKER_17]: Then, my final question was, do you have full supervision on all calls?
[30:35.510 --> 30:37.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: And the rates were lowered in AT&T.
[30:37.770 --> 30:39.150]  [SPEAKER_17]: During the day, maybe not at night.
[30:39.290 --> 30:43.390]  [SPEAKER_17]: Not at night during, uh, not intrastate at night, but during the day at lower rates.
[30:43.490 --> 30:53.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: Anyhow, he says, well, the call, you only start paying for the call once there's an answer at the other end, so if an answering machine answers, you get, uh, you get, uh, you know, you start paying.
[30:53.290 --> 30:56.450]  [SPEAKER_17]: I said, uh, yes, but what type of...
[31:01.160 --> 31:02.680]  [SPEAKER_17]: ...for intercept recordings?
[31:03.360 --> 31:10.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: I was, I had them as my default, I think as my default carrier, or maybe I was using 950 at that time, I forget, but it appeared on my bill.
[31:10.860 --> 31:13.020]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I remembered I'd got an intercept recording.
[31:13.140 --> 31:14.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: I called him up and complained.
[31:14.600 --> 31:16.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: They said AT&T charges for the same thing.
[31:17.140 --> 31:19.940]  [SPEAKER_17]: So I made a call to the same number on AT&T.
[31:19.940 --> 31:25.320]  [SPEAKER_17]: I got the intercept recording, I waited for my AT&T bill, and I was not charged for that call.
[31:25.480 --> 31:26.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: So U.S.
[31:26.320 --> 31:29.540]  [SPEAKER_17]: Telecom at that time could not tell that it was an intercept.
[31:30.140 --> 31:34.020]  [SPEAKER_17]: Incidentally, as part of my class-auction lawsuit, I got approximately $1.75.
[31:34.580 --> 31:38.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's, uh, that certainly, uh, makes you feel like Justice Woods.
[31:38.600 --> 31:41.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: ...was part of a class-auction lawsuit against those liars.
[31:41.920 --> 31:42.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: They lied to me.
[31:42.580 --> 31:43.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: They said, oh, you won't get charged for it.
[31:44.080 --> 31:45.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: This was, uh, U.S.
[31:45.220 --> 31:45.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Tel.
[31:45.820 --> 31:48.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: ...actually, they said, they said AT&T also charges.
[31:48.380 --> 31:51.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, I mean, what they say is basically whatever they, they feel like saying at the moment.
[31:52.120 --> 31:55.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: AT&T obviously, uh, wouldn't charge for a network that they helped design.
[31:55.800 --> 32:01.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, they, they have answer supervision, but they, you know, they were the only company at the beginning to have this.
[32:01.760 --> 32:06.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I think virtually all the companies, except for the really, really small ones, uh, provide supervision.
[32:06.860 --> 32:12.940]  [SPEAKER_17]: But I think it's one worthwhile thing to ask when one is choosing a new default long-distance carrier, what type of supervision on the calls.
[32:13.120 --> 32:13.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[32:14.000 --> 32:16.560]  [SPEAKER_17]: Some of them, uh, I think at that time, U.S.
[32:16.580 --> 32:17.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: Telecom timed.
[32:17.680 --> 32:18.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: They didn't use voice.
[32:18.640 --> 32:19.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: They just timed them.
[32:19.800 --> 32:22.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: you know, if you stayed on for more than whatever it is, 30 or 45 seconds.
[32:22.900 --> 32:26.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, there are many, many PBXs that exist today that operate on the same principle.
[32:26.980 --> 32:42.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: I know if, uh, if your office works on, say, a Rome system or something like that, it's quite likely that, uh, that the bill you get within your organization will be based on time and not, uh, not reflect what they're actually billed for by the phone company.
[32:42.560 --> 32:49.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, for overseas calls, like, that results in virtually every call, every attempt being billed because it takes that long to connect.
[32:49.520 --> 32:58.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, that means if a company ran its telecommunications department as, as a, as a separate entity, that's the only department in the company that would show a profit.
[32:58.940 --> 32:59.580]  [SPEAKER_17]: One of the few.
[33:00.060 --> 33:02.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: The mailroom would, would not show a profit.
[33:02.040 --> 33:04.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, mailrooms as a history don't show profits.
[33:04.680 --> 33:07.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, but their PBX could show a profit if they're billing the department.
[33:07.800 --> 33:08.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, absolutely.
[33:08.800 --> 33:16.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, in fact, uh, some organizations, universities, places like that, uh, there is definitely a, uh, a gap between what they charge and what they're billed.
[33:17.540 --> 33:18.600]  [SPEAKER_17]: Alrighty, I'll keep on listening.
[33:18.800 --> 33:19.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[33:19.980 --> 33:21.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Some interesting, uh, interesting news there.
[33:22.580 --> 33:22.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: LCI.
[33:23.420 --> 33:24.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Never heard of them.
[33:25.500 --> 33:26.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Never heard of them.
[33:26.540 --> 33:30.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, let's see if, if, uh, 800 information has heard of them.
[33:30.480 --> 33:31.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's give that a try.
[33:34.450 --> 33:37.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, let's see if 800 information has ever heard of LCI.
[33:37.850 --> 33:39.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: And your directory, Garin?
[33:39.230 --> 33:40.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, yes, hi.
[33:40.090 --> 33:40.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is this 800 information?
[33:41.590 --> 33:42.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, sir.
[33:42.250 --> 33:42.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, great.
[33:42.850 --> 33:45.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I need the number for the phone company called LCI.
[33:46.150 --> 33:47.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: L as in llama.
[33:50.090 --> 33:51.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: LCI, what's there?
[33:51.410 --> 33:55.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I guess it's LCI communications, although that's probably what the C stands for.
[33:55.870 --> 33:59.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, just anything I'm going to do with phones or long distance?
[34:02.130 --> 34:02.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Anything?
[34:05.170 --> 34:06.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: LCI, um,
[34:09.400 --> 34:09.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: communication.
[34:12.540 --> 34:15.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: You don't have a, you don't know where they're located or anything, or?
[34:15.120 --> 34:16.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, they're somewhere in the Midwest.
[34:20.950 --> 34:21.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Somewhere out there.
[34:24.350 --> 34:24.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yep.
[34:25.210 --> 34:26.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's unlisted, I'm sorry.
[34:26.670 --> 34:27.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, no listing?
[34:27.710 --> 34:28.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, sir.
[34:28.350 --> 34:29.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, thank you very much.
[34:29.750 --> 34:30.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you.
[34:31.050 --> 34:34.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I hope, uh, I hope he does something about that, that cough there.
[34:35.010 --> 34:35.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: Man.
[34:35.910 --> 34:39.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: I thought he was laughing at first, but no, he, uh, he was definitely, uh, gagging there.
[34:40.170 --> 34:43.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you can't do much business if you're a phone company and you're not listed.
[34:43.710 --> 34:44.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's rule number one.
[34:44.930 --> 34:47.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, LCI, I don't know.
[34:48.070 --> 34:52.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll, uh, keep our ears open, but apparently, uh, they're not looking for much business from here.
[34:53.370 --> 34:54.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening.
[34:54.150 --> 34:54.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're on Off the Hook.
[34:54.750 --> 34:55.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, how are you doing there?
[34:55.970 --> 34:56.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, how are you?
[34:56.690 --> 34:59.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: How's, uh, how's George Orwell?
[34:59.750 --> 35:02.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, he's, you know, he hasn't done much.
[35:02.690 --> 35:04.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: He hasn't updated his book, has he?
[35:04.750 --> 35:05.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, no.
[35:05.650 --> 35:06.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: He doesn't need to.
[35:06.610 --> 35:08.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: We got big brother all over the place.
[35:08.350 --> 35:09.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: After 1984, we'll call it.
[35:10.030 --> 35:10.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[35:10.630 --> 35:21.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Listen, um, you know, I'd like to, uh, suggest to you that we end the controversy about the, uh, 30 or 20 rings into the station and then...
[35:21.250 --> 35:22.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good, I'm glad you brought that up.
[35:22.430 --> 35:24.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, now let me tell you what happened.
[35:24.190 --> 35:24.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[35:24.370 --> 35:32.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think it was on your program, but it was on one of the programs and they had a person, uh, calling in from California, uh, you know, one of the guests.
[35:32.870 --> 35:33.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[35:33.270 --> 35:41.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he acknowledged that the phone system that they have out there, they have the 20 ring or 30 ring cut off.
[35:41.730 --> 35:43.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, he acknowledged it.
[35:43.870 --> 36:01.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: I then said, you are acknowledging it because I called the, uh, our local telephone, New York telephone company and spoke to the authorities there, I thought, and they said that they in no way, if you want to ring a number that's not picking up, you know,
[36:01.130 --> 36:12.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: after all, supposing a person's just coming home and you start ringing and five minutes later they come home, you could re-ring them, but if you just wait till they get home, they would pick up.
[36:12.470 --> 36:14.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, anyway, the upshot was, Yeah, what's the upshot?
[36:14.930 --> 36:29.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: A guy calls in after it was acknowledged on the phone and I'll give him the grace that maybe he had cut off his radio just to wait to be picked up, which doesn't make radio listening very sensible because you could miss, uh, you know what I mean?
[36:30.090 --> 36:35.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Conversations as you wait, you know, with your radio off, you know, so you don't get feedback.
[36:35.630 --> 36:37.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: You understand what I mean?
[36:37.210 --> 36:41.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we just have to limit the independent clauses of the sentence and tell me the exact point here.
[36:42.050 --> 36:42.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: is be perfectly ethical.
[36:42.730 --> 36:46.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: He said that he wrote to the president of AT&T, mind you.
[36:47.030 --> 36:56.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: He didn't mention the man's name and he said that this man said that that's what they're doing now is cutting off phone calls when they don't, uh, get picked up after a number of rings.
[36:56.930 --> 36:57.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
[36:57.450 --> 37:19.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I say to you, if you want to settle a very simple question, please settle the question as to whether the WBAI freedom of speech phone system is not, um, uh, impeded, uh, just as Bob Fast kept me off the air for a year or so and then said he'd give me the Monroe Minute and then he reneged on that.
[37:19.270 --> 37:20.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, well, that has nothing...
[37:20.350 --> 37:23.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Tell me about freedom of speech and phone companies, okay?
[37:23.070 --> 37:26.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, now, Bob Fast and the Monroe Minute has nothing to do with the phone companies.
[37:26.550 --> 37:27.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right?
[37:27.430 --> 37:33.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, anyway, I'm identifying myself as a hurt individual in this man's and woman's world.
[37:33.930 --> 37:34.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[37:34.370 --> 37:36.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, so what's the story on the phone cutoff?
[37:36.870 --> 37:38.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is in your system, isn't it?
[37:38.570 --> 37:42.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, when you say in our system, no, it's got nothing to do with the WBAI phone system.
[37:42.630 --> 37:45.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: The WBAI phone system is nothing more than a little blinking light.
[37:46.210 --> 37:47.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: It is the local...
[37:47.310 --> 37:47.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm now.
[37:47.670 --> 37:49.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: ...the local switch here.
[37:49.210 --> 37:49.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I can prove it to you.
[37:50.010 --> 37:50.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: I can prove it to you.
[37:50.690 --> 38:07.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you call any number in the 279 exchange, any number, count the number of rings, call a number in the 279 exchange that is not part of WBAI and hope that nobody answers, and try something in the 99 area, which is the phone company, you'll see it cuts off after the exact same number of rings.
[38:07.290 --> 38:08.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're powerless to do it.
[38:08.070 --> 38:08.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's because...
[38:08.490 --> 38:14.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's because we switched over to a number 5 ESS in the area, and that's endemic in the switch.
[38:14.970 --> 38:16.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: They have a timeout.
[38:16.390 --> 38:25.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't like it any more than our listeners do, and there's really nothing we can do about it, except if we picked up all the calls and put them on hold, maybe people wouldn't like that either.
[38:25.830 --> 38:26.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: This didn't happen a year ago.
[38:26.510 --> 38:27.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, why is it happening now?
[38:27.930 --> 38:32.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because in the spring of this year, we switched from a 1A ESS to a 5 ESS.
[38:32.190 --> 38:33.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: We had no say about it.
[38:33.230 --> 38:34.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, why did you switch?
[38:34.930 --> 38:35.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: We didn't switch.
[38:35.790 --> 38:36.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no.
[38:36.130 --> 38:38.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: What happens is the phone company makes a switch.
[38:38.210 --> 38:42.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: They make things available, and what they did in this particular case was they switched to a 5 ESS.
[38:42.610 --> 38:47.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: They gave us such great options as call return and caller ID and nice things like that, which we don't use.
[38:47.910 --> 38:49.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: But you do have caller ID.
[38:49.470 --> 38:51.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't have it because we don't subscribe to it.
[38:51.370 --> 38:52.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: We could get it, yes.
[38:52.730 --> 38:56.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: But we're not going to waste money and time like that because it would be pointless.
[38:56.910 --> 39:01.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: But by doing that, by offering those extra services, they upgraded the switch.
[39:01.650 --> 39:07.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: There used to be a different number that WBAI had, and it was changed, and now it's this number.
[39:08.290 --> 39:09.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why don't you do that?
[39:09.990 --> 39:13.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I find it a very, you know, how shall I say it?
[39:13.410 --> 39:16.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're waiting, and all of a sudden then you're getting...
[39:16.110 --> 39:17.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I understand your frustration.
[39:18.250 --> 39:21.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: ...in a way, and then you recall, and then spun away, and...
[39:21.630 --> 39:23.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: I understand your frustration, and...
[39:23.150 --> 39:24.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I'll tell you something.
[39:24.330 --> 39:25.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[39:25.510 --> 39:29.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not proud of every phone call that comes into WBAI, but...
[39:29.450 --> 39:29.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Neither am I.
[39:30.770 --> 39:32.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what's going between...
[39:32.950 --> 39:34.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let me just say it this way, and I'll end.
[39:34.990 --> 39:35.130]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[39:35.130 --> 39:39.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: There are people like Bob Grant and Jay Diamond on ABC.
[39:40.450 --> 39:44.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: These people will become contemptuous of you if they don't like your voice.
[39:44.890 --> 39:45.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[39:45.250 --> 39:54.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: They think you're of a certain religion or a certain ethnic group or God only knows or you talk too quickly or not quickly enough or you're not talking loud enough.
[39:54.830 --> 39:57.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: They will cut you and flail you away.
[39:58.190 --> 39:58.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or too much.
[39:58.630 --> 40:14.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I find that what I once thought would be the most wonderful interaction that would help society now has gotten to the point where you tell me that you went from 1 EFS to 2 F or 5 F and therefore this new system.
[40:14.730 --> 40:16.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it's like big brothers here.
[40:16.590 --> 40:16.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hallelujah.
[40:17.490 --> 40:17.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[40:18.010 --> 40:18.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[40:20.650 --> 40:23.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: He hung up first right down this date.
[40:23.790 --> 40:24.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: This has never happened before.
[40:25.030 --> 40:25.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: He hung up first.
[40:26.310 --> 40:27.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wow.
[40:27.310 --> 40:29.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: I made it through an entire Monroe conversation.
[40:29.070 --> 40:29.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's incredible.
[40:30.530 --> 40:31.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's hope for me yet.
[40:31.870 --> 40:33.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Look, folks, we have nothing to do with this.
[40:33.830 --> 40:36.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: This has got nothing to do with the radio station.
[40:36.190 --> 40:37.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: It is the phone company.
[40:39.530 --> 40:42.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just like complaining about the way the ring sounds.
[40:42.430 --> 40:46.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, remember when the ring used to be this deep baritone ring and they used to hear static in between the rings?
[40:46.930 --> 40:48.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: That was a crossbar.
[40:48.410 --> 40:50.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: That was a mechanical switch.
[40:50.330 --> 40:55.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: At some point, the phone company said, we're going to make it electronic and we're going to make them all sound the same.
[40:55.390 --> 40:59.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: And now today, virtually all of the rings around the world sound the same, around the country anyway.
[41:00.050 --> 41:05.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, they've upgraded further from a simple electronic switch to a digital switch.
[41:05.170 --> 41:11.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: And by doing so, they have added the capability, which is good for them and bad for us, of having a timeout function.
[41:11.510 --> 41:14.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, yes, AT&T has their own timeout function.
[41:14.250 --> 41:22.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you call from a faraway place using AT&T, it will cut you off quicker than our local switch here will cut you off.
[41:22.430 --> 41:26.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: After about two minutes or so, you'll get a recording saying your call is not being answered.
[41:26.610 --> 41:29.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's obvious that's AT&T doing that because AT&T says that.
[41:30.450 --> 41:40.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, locally, New York Telephone's number five ESS switch, which is close by to us, it times out after about four or five minutes.
[41:40.410 --> 41:43.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, there's absolutely nothing we can do about it, unfortunately.
[41:44.150 --> 41:48.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe if enough people write and complain and say this is not fair, something will get done.
[41:48.750 --> 41:52.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, in the course of that phone call, everybody that was calling in got disconnected.
[41:52.830 --> 41:54.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, that's the way it works now.
[41:54.630 --> 41:55.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not fair.
[41:55.410 --> 41:58.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not fair at all and it's totally contrary to the way things used to be.
[41:59.290 --> 42:01.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, let's see if I can rescue somebody before they get cut off.
[42:02.190 --> 42:02.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening.
[42:03.710 --> 42:05.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, this is Jayhawk again.
[42:05.330 --> 42:05.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was the first caller.
[42:06.130 --> 42:10.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: I just wanted to say that first of all, the time out for you guys is exactly five minutes or give or take a second.
[42:10.710 --> 42:12.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, it's five minutes for local calls.
[42:12.630 --> 42:15.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you go through AT&T, it might be longer.
[42:15.750 --> 42:20.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Those people in New Jersey going through AT&T, you don't have to use, what is it, 1-0-N-Y...
[42:20.550 --> 42:21.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, 1-0-N-J-B.
[42:22.150 --> 42:24.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: Use New Jersey Bell and I think the time out is longer.
[42:24.710 --> 42:26.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the other thing is someone wanted the address for Loompanics?
[42:27.530 --> 42:28.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, do you have that handy?
[42:28.690 --> 42:30.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's Loompanics Unlimited, P.O.
[42:30.970 --> 42:37.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: Box 1197, Port Townsend, P-O-W-N-S-E-N-D, Washington.
[42:37.690 --> 42:40.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the zip code is 98368.
[42:41.730 --> 42:42.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's see.
[42:42.790 --> 42:46.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: They do not have a phone number and they charge five bucks for catalogs.
[42:46.270 --> 42:47.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: And catalogs are free with your order.
[42:47.630 --> 42:50.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: So if you know an item number, you can order that and get a free catalog.
[42:51.270 --> 42:51.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[42:51.650 --> 42:53.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: You don't have the number for 2600, do you?
[42:53.710 --> 42:55.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: I do, but not in this one.
[42:55.530 --> 42:57.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I guess since I work for them, I can give it up.
[42:58.050 --> 42:59.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because he was asking about that too.
[43:00.250 --> 43:01.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: 516-751-2600.
[43:02.070 --> 43:04.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you can write to them at P.O.
[43:04.070 --> 43:07.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Box 752, Middle Island, New York, 11953.
[43:08.270 --> 43:09.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: So hopefully that answers those questions.
[43:10.330 --> 43:11.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to move on to another call.
[43:11.430 --> 43:11.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for calling.
[43:12.190 --> 43:12.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bye.
[43:17.090 --> 43:18.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm kind of new to fooling around with some of this.
[43:18.490 --> 43:19.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I was just curious.
[43:19.490 --> 43:22.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: The guy before referred to a demon dialer from Holland.
[43:22.870 --> 43:28.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just wanted to know if this was different from the ordinary demon dialer that I've seen available in Manhattan for $20.
[43:29.710 --> 43:32.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, probably since that's 10 times more expensive.
[43:32.490 --> 43:34.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know what the one that you see in Manhattan does?
[43:34.910 --> 43:37.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: It looks like it's just a multiple phone ringing thing.
[43:38.030 --> 43:38.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Stores a lot of numbers.
[43:38.930 --> 43:39.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Rings them fast, et cetera.
[43:39.910 --> 43:41.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: But it's actually brand name demon dialer.
[43:41.930 --> 43:42.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[43:42.290 --> 43:43.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, that's not the same thing.
[43:43.550 --> 43:54.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: What this demon dialer does is replicate virtually any phone company tone from dial tones to rings to blue box tones, silver box tones, red box tones, you name it.
[43:54.430 --> 43:55.250]  Oh, so super box.
[43:55.390 --> 43:55.650]  All right.
[43:55.730 --> 43:56.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: It does everything.
[43:56.610 --> 43:57.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can program it.
[43:57.610 --> 43:59.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can make sweep tones.
[43:59.730 --> 44:04.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can make virtually any kind of tone that you feel is necessary.
[44:04.090 --> 44:05.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can have a guard tone.
[44:05.170 --> 44:08.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: In other words, play a tone while you're punching in other tones.
[44:09.130 --> 44:10.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's really...
[44:10.090 --> 44:14.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you're a serious phone freak, if you're a serious explorer of the phone networks, that's something...
[44:14.930 --> 44:15.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you do a lot of traveling.
[44:16.050 --> 44:17.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: You go overseas a lot.
[44:17.810 --> 44:20.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: This box will come in quite handy.
[44:20.270 --> 44:22.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, it looks like it's a bomb or something.
[44:23.470 --> 44:30.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: But if you're able to get through various international borders, you'll find it's very useful for exploring.
[44:30.730 --> 44:33.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: It can be used for fraudulent purposes, but that's not the answer.
[44:33.730 --> 44:37.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is that legal to possess in the United States and are there customs restrictions on ordering, bringing it in?
[44:37.910 --> 44:42.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you see, it's a kit, so it's not assembled when it comes into the country.
[44:42.830 --> 44:45.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Were it to be assembled, there probably would be a problem of some sort.
[44:45.770 --> 44:55.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: I myself had trouble coming into this country from Canada with an assembled version, but it's very easy to explain it away, to tell the people that it's just a big Touch-Tone pad.
[44:56.210 --> 44:59.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: They generally believe that because they don't know the first thing about electronics.
[44:59.450 --> 44:59.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Makes sense.
[45:00.010 --> 45:00.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's from Hack-Tic?
[45:01.150 --> 45:02.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's from Hack-Tic Technologies.
[45:02.190 --> 45:03.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: One last question.
[45:03.170 --> 45:07.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you know any place in Manhattan that still has 6.5536 crystals?
[45:07.510 --> 45:07.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, gosh.
[45:07.910 --> 45:09.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've just been trying every place in town.
[45:09.810 --> 45:12.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they all claim they're back-ordered, problem park, blah, blah, blah.
[45:12.630 --> 45:18.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there's been a run on those, but I do know that in the next issue of 2600, there's a couple of classified ads.
[45:19.970 --> 45:22.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I saw one in the last issue, and I think I'm about to go through DigiKey.
[45:22.870 --> 45:24.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: They said they're getting it at the end of September.
[45:24.570 --> 45:25.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: DigiKey might be a good source.
[45:26.110 --> 45:27.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, two weeks to the printer?
[45:28.410 --> 45:29.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Two or three.
[45:29.270 --> 45:29.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Great.
[45:29.690 --> 45:30.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks a lot.
[45:30.130 --> 45:30.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Keep it going.
[45:30.690 --> 45:30.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[45:32.090 --> 45:32.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[45:32.490 --> 45:33.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: I should have mentioned.
[45:33.210 --> 45:34.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: The fall issue has gone to the printer.
[45:35.130 --> 45:43.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right now, the printer is looking at it and throwing up his hands in despair, but there should be a new issue out within the next month, I'd say, and on the newsstands, too.
[45:44.230 --> 45:44.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening.
[45:45.270 --> 45:45.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, hi.
[45:46.110 --> 45:47.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is Ed.
[45:47.330 --> 45:47.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hi, Ed.
[45:47.690 --> 45:51.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: I had a question, I mean, not a question, a comment on the SIT tones.
[45:52.290 --> 45:58.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: One time, I had recorded it on my answering machine as a joke when people would call.
[45:58.590 --> 46:00.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's the kind of joke that gets people in trouble, Ed, you know that.
[46:00.670 --> 46:07.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, and what had happened is I called my answering machine from one of these private payphones, and it kicked my money back.
[46:08.950 --> 46:13.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, okay, all right, what you found was a private payphone that wasn't very sophisticated.
[46:13.530 --> 46:13.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[46:14.150 --> 46:22.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: So what you found was a really good hack, and, you know, if you abused that particular hack, you could make lots of free phone calls using that particular payphone.
[46:23.190 --> 46:32.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, okay, yes, and the thing that happened is I did get a letter from New York Telephone about, like, three months later telling me to remove that message.
[46:32.790 --> 46:33.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, wait a minute, wait a minute.
[46:33.990 --> 46:35.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: How did New York Telephone know you had that message?
[46:36.310 --> 46:41.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I guess I put in a call to their customer service department, and they called me back and heard it.
[46:41.670 --> 46:43.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't understand, you know, how that got through.
[46:44.150 --> 46:45.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have a copy of that letter?
[46:46.730 --> 46:47.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Offhand, though, this was many years ago.
[46:48.050 --> 46:48.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: This was about seven years ago.
[46:49.110 --> 46:53.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: That sounds like a hilarious letter to get, telling you to take certain tones off you.
[46:53.710 --> 46:58.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: As far as I'm concerned, you can put anything you want on your answering machine, machine, and they can't stop you from doing that.
[46:59.390 --> 47:00.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, that's what I figured.
[47:00.590 --> 47:04.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the funny thing is, New York Telephone payphones would not be fooled by that.
[47:04.510 --> 47:16.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Nobody would be fooled by that except for private machines that use that particular series of tones to either refund money or not refund money, but the phone company would not fall prey to that.
[47:16.930 --> 47:19.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, and I just had one other quick question.
[47:19.510 --> 47:24.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: The crystals the other gentleman was talking about, the 65536 crystals, what were they used for?
[47:24.870 --> 47:47.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, generally they're used to convert a particular device into a red box, and red boxes are used to make quarter sounds, and what's weird about it is that they've worked now for so long, for I think over 20 years, and only in the last couple of years have they started to really be seen everywhere.
[47:47.510 --> 48:04.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you go to any street corner, and people are using red boxes in lieu of quarters, almost as if it's just an acceptable way of making a phone call, and you have to wonder why the phone company just hasn't done something drastic like replaced all of their payphones with phones that don't fall into that trap,
[48:04.470 --> 48:10.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: because everywhere, everywhere you go, it's possible to just play five tones into the phone and simulate a quarter.
[48:11.230 --> 48:13.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I just had one quick question before I go.
[48:14.150 --> 48:17.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: The frequencies of those tones, are they available to the public?
[48:17.670 --> 48:19.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, we've printed them a couple of times.
[48:20.010 --> 48:21.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Does somebody over there have them?
[48:21.550 --> 48:22.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hang on, we might have an answer for you.
[48:23.150 --> 48:27.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: I believe the tones are 1700 and 2200 hertz.
[48:27.670 --> 48:28.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: At the same time.
[48:28.550 --> 48:33.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, for 66 milliseconds with a 33 millisecond space?
[48:33.870 --> 48:34.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, 33 milliseconds.
[48:34.890 --> 48:35.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's for a quarter, though.
[48:35.870 --> 48:36.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: No?
[48:36.410 --> 48:36.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no.
[48:36.750 --> 48:37.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: What is it?
[48:37.350 --> 48:38.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have another opinion here.
[48:39.710 --> 48:44.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's five 35 millisecond pulses separated by 35 milliseconds.
[48:45.190 --> 48:49.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, there is a bit of controversy about how many milliseconds there are, and it does make a difference.
[48:49.530 --> 48:51.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't sound like much, but it does make a difference.
[48:51.750 --> 48:52.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Try them all.
[48:52.650 --> 48:54.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, experimentation, that's the key.
[48:54.990 --> 49:03.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, if I say this to up-and-coming hackers that, you know, it's not just getting information, it's figuring out the information, it's what's important.
[49:03.690 --> 49:04.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.
[49:04.830 --> 49:05.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay?
[49:05.390 --> 49:06.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, thank you very much.
[49:06.190 --> 49:06.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for calling.
[49:07.570 --> 49:13.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, of course, having this information does not necessarily mean that you have to make free phone calls on a payphone, now does it?
[49:14.670 --> 49:18.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's all kinds of experimentation that can be done without resorting to that.
[49:18.650 --> 49:20.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, people will do all kinds of things, but it's not...
[49:20.870 --> 49:23.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: See, the knowledge itself is not what is evil.
[49:23.570 --> 49:26.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's how we all choose to apply it.
[49:26.870 --> 49:27.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening.
[49:28.530 --> 49:28.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[49:29.090 --> 49:29.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Are you there?
[49:29.610 --> 49:31.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to get in contact with 26...
[49:33.730 --> 49:37.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just gave their address, so is there somebody else you're trying to get in touch with?
[49:37.290 --> 49:39.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: I had two questions, Emmanuel.
[49:39.410 --> 49:39.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[49:39.870 --> 49:46.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: First was with regard to the use of caller ID.
[49:46.510 --> 50:06.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, I was listening to your program before, and my understanding is that if caller ID is in place in your area and you're getting a call from outside of your area code, that identification does not necessarily transcribe on the caller ID pad or...
[50:06.110 --> 50:07.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is that true?
[50:08.350 --> 50:09.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, now, the information...
[50:09.990 --> 50:11.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: First of all, the area code is not what's important.
[50:12.870 --> 50:13.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's the...
[50:14.630 --> 50:21.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's whether or not you're outside your particular region, whether or not that...
[50:21.310 --> 50:22.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: For instance, here in New York...
[50:22.910 --> 50:28.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: Here in New York, we can get caller ID from, say, 212-718-914-516.
[50:29.590 --> 50:35.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's no limit, really, to how many times you can go between those area codes.
[50:35.150 --> 50:37.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's not the area code, it's the region.
[50:37.790 --> 50:41.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: And right now, a good dividing line is New York, New Jersey.
[50:41.990 --> 50:47.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, there have been cases where caller ID has been transmitted from New Jersey to New York using 10NJB.
[50:48.790 --> 50:51.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: One day, it'll cross state lines.
[50:51.890 --> 50:55.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: It'll cross from Pacific Coast to Atlantic Coast.
[50:55.270 --> 51:01.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's not really the issue as far as how it's prevented from reaching you.
[51:01.210 --> 51:04.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: The second question, I had a practical problem.
[51:05.590 --> 51:14.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: I received a call recently, a collect call, as it were, from an area code down south.
[51:14.450 --> 51:18.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: And apparently, it was an annoyance call.
[51:18.490 --> 51:28.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: What I wanted to do was to find out not only the number, which I understand... well, I'll break the question down.
[51:29.030 --> 51:35.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: I understand that the number will eventually come with the bill because the call was accepted as collect.
[51:35.970 --> 51:38.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, can you explain to me what this call was like?
[51:38.450 --> 51:39.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Was it an automated call?
[51:39.830 --> 51:43.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, no, this was a person, I think, impersonating someone else.
[51:44.510 --> 51:44.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know...
[51:44.950 --> 51:47.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so basically, he tricked you into accepting the call.
[51:47.730 --> 51:48.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[51:48.370 --> 51:49.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, well, what's going to happen?
[51:49.610 --> 51:51.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: First of all, I mean, how long did you stay on for?
[51:51.570 --> 51:53.130]  Oh, it must have been a couple of minutes.
[51:53.250 --> 51:55.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, it's not going to be all that much.
[51:55.530 --> 51:59.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Unless, of course, it was one of these weird funds that charges $5 for the first minute.
[51:59.570 --> 51:59.890]  Right.
[52:00.390 --> 52:04.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: However, when you get your bill, you will see the number that it was called from.
[52:04.970 --> 52:06.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: However, it's probably a payphone.
[52:07.090 --> 52:07.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[52:07.350 --> 52:08.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's not going to tell you much.
[52:08.390 --> 52:10.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: It'll tell you the city it came from, but that's really it.
[52:11.110 --> 52:20.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, presuming, of course, that you want to find out exactly where this call came from, and you didn't want to go through the conventional means of AT&T, how might you do that?
[52:21.190 --> 52:28.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: In other words, I'm assuming that when it came from Sprint, when I called the operator back, I asked her if Sprint had...
[52:28.430 --> 52:30.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, how did you know it came from Sprint?
[52:30.270 --> 52:31.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: The Sprint operator came on?
[52:31.430 --> 52:31.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[52:32.430 --> 52:34.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have to accept the call first, right?
[52:34.390 --> 52:37.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, but they don't always identify themselves as being from a particular company.
[52:38.130 --> 52:38.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: This time, they did.
[52:38.970 --> 52:40.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: They did identify themselves as Sprint.
[52:40.310 --> 52:44.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, so, now you say you don't want to wait for the phone bill to come.
[52:46.290 --> 52:57.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I would prefer not to, but the crux of my question, I know eventually the number will pop up, but the issue is, how is it that one might find out the actual origin of it?
[52:57.110 --> 52:59.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, is there an address attached to this number?
[52:59.330 --> 53:00.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: How would you go about doing that?
[53:00.990 --> 53:03.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: You mean, once you have the number, how do you find out more information about it?
[53:03.810 --> 53:03.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[53:04.030 --> 53:15.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: You call your phone company, you call Sprint in this particular case, excuse me, and in this particular case, Sprint would tell you, if you ask them, who that number belongs to.
[53:15.890 --> 53:19.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're entitled to get the name and address of any number that shows up on your phone bill.
[53:19.950 --> 53:22.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's, you know, that's definitely true with AT&T.
[53:23.030 --> 53:27.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: It might be a little bit more difficult for Sprint to do it, but if you're insistent, they will give you that information.
[53:27.550 --> 53:28.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: They will.
[53:28.310 --> 53:40.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's interesting, because when I ask the operator, I usually when a collect call comes in, I ask for time and charges, and I would presume that they could give me that information on the spot.
[53:40.610 --> 53:44.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: But when I asked the operator at Sprint if they had ANI, she told me no.
[53:46.310 --> 53:50.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, an operator probably doesn't have the slightest idea what ANI is in the first place.
[53:50.430 --> 53:53.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, not to put down operators, but it's not part of the training.
[53:53.910 --> 53:57.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Some operators know a lot, but it's not required that operators know a lot, unfortunately.
[53:59.510 --> 53:59.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay?
[54:00.170 --> 54:02.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: She said no rather definitively.
[54:02.850 --> 54:06.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, you know, she probably was getting, you know, off work in about two minutes anyway.
[54:06.970 --> 54:09.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, she'd say anything definitively.
[54:09.470 --> 54:10.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Listen, thanks for your call.
[54:10.310 --> 54:10.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good luck.
[54:10.670 --> 54:11.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let us know how it turns out.
[54:11.690 --> 54:11.870]  All right.
[54:11.950 --> 54:12.170]  Bye-bye.
[54:12.330 --> 54:12.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[54:12.890 --> 54:14.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: See if we have time for one more call.
[54:14.790 --> 54:15.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening.
[54:15.970 --> 54:16.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, Emmanuel?
[54:16.850 --> 54:17.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, go ahead.
[54:17.530 --> 54:21.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I got a question on caller ID.
[54:22.470 --> 54:27.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: The thing is that where I work, they have like, I guess, the trunk line service.
[54:27.330 --> 54:31.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you're down like 958, you keep on getting different numbers.
[54:31.430 --> 54:37.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, when I say call my answering machine to see if I have numbers, I'll get a different exchange.
[54:37.930 --> 54:40.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: When I call those numbers, and I know no one ever answers.
[54:40.770 --> 54:43.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have a friend that works for another place in Manhattan.
[54:44.090 --> 54:47.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: I work in Queens, and it comes up a different exchange.
[54:47.730 --> 54:51.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the funny thing is, when I call those numbers, they're actual numbers.
[54:52.130 --> 54:52.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: People pick up.
[54:52.990 --> 54:54.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm trying to figure out what's going on.
[54:54.450 --> 54:56.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, do people pick up in the company?
[54:57.370 --> 55:08.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's like, in other words, when on, like, for example, I know I'd work, I'll dial 958 each time, I'll dial 958, and nothing, I get a different number.
[55:08.450 --> 55:08.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[55:08.990 --> 55:11.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: If I dial those numbers, it just rings, rings, and rings.
[55:12.210 --> 55:16.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Where my friend calls, his exchange is 613 in Manhattan.
[55:16.850 --> 55:33.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't recall offhand exchange that's showing up on my caller ID, but when I call back that number, they'll answer, a doctor will answer on another time, he'll call, it's on the same phone, it's just, it's some computer routing, and it'll be a florist or some other thing,
[55:33.590 --> 55:34.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: and I'm just trying to figure it out.
[55:34.990 --> 55:35.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: I called up the...
[55:35.810 --> 55:36.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's weird.
[55:36.530 --> 55:37.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're saying these people...
[55:37.370 --> 55:45.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: ...call up the phone company, and they said, well, it doesn't work for, like, business or commercial kind of things, so it seems very weird and strange.
[55:45.470 --> 55:49.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: They don't know what they're talking about, but what you're...
[55:50.450 --> 55:52.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: It sounds like something's being crossed someplace.
[55:52.630 --> 55:55.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: These people have no link with the company that you work for.
[55:55.950 --> 55:57.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, no, I work for a state agency.
[55:57.590 --> 56:01.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: My friend works for a different state in Queens.
[56:01.330 --> 56:02.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: He works in Brooklyn.
[56:03.430 --> 56:08.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, I mean, I know that sometimes they have these computerized, pulling out these trunks.
[56:08.610 --> 56:08.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[56:09.050 --> 56:11.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they're sent to just unused numbers.
[56:11.610 --> 56:14.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, if I were you, what I would do is just do some very definitive tests.
[56:15.090 --> 56:18.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Make something like five or ten phone calls to your caller ID box.
[56:18.430 --> 56:20.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: See what the range of numbers is.
[56:20.370 --> 56:21.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Call all of those numbers back.
[56:21.710 --> 56:23.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Find out exactly who belongs to what number.
[56:23.470 --> 56:25.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then see what's going on because that shouldn't be.
[56:26.010 --> 56:29.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that means you're kind of like sharing a phone pool with these people.
[56:29.490 --> 56:32.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: It seems strange if that would be the case.
[56:32.490 --> 56:33.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's not right.
[56:33.690 --> 56:40.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: If I'm calling, I'd say, at work and it shows me, it shows on a different number where, you know, you're calling just rings.
[56:40.350 --> 56:43.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: If I called 800 number, they would not be showing my work number.
[56:43.930 --> 56:46.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: They would be showing this truck line number.
[56:46.290 --> 56:47.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Am I correct in assuming that?
[56:47.990 --> 56:51.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, it should be showing the trunk number you're calling out on, yes.
[56:52.030 --> 56:55.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: That should have some relation to the organization you're with.
[56:55.310 --> 57:02.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: It won't be the exact, won't be the DID number, but it will be a number that is owned or used by that particular company.
[57:02.130 --> 57:03.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: It should not be used by other people.
[57:03.530 --> 57:04.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: I see.
[57:04.090 --> 57:06.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: So in other words, it would also apply like 911.
[57:06.770 --> 57:09.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: They wouldn't be actually, they'd be getting the same truck line number.
[57:09.290 --> 57:14.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's a different technology, and I hope that's not being messed up like that.
[57:14.950 --> 57:18.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: But that's very strange, because the phone company, a girl, said, I've got to call.
[57:18.490 --> 57:19.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: I want to answer the question.
[57:20.090 --> 57:21.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: She said, I've got to hold on for a minute.
[57:21.950 --> 57:26.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that was very strange, because his exchange is 613.
[57:27.690 --> 57:30.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's possible the data is being garbled somehow.
[57:30.570 --> 57:33.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, but it sounds like you're onto something, and you should look into it.
[57:33.850 --> 57:36.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're out of time right now, so I've got to stop here.
[57:36.330 --> 57:36.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[57:36.710 --> 57:37.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: But keep us updated.
[57:37.710 --> 57:38.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: That sounds interesting.
[57:38.390 --> 57:38.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[57:39.490 --> 57:41.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's going to do it for us here tonight.
[57:41.470 --> 57:43.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll be back again next week.
[57:48.100 --> 57:49.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[57:49.780 --> 57:50.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's been fun.
[57:51.160 --> 57:54.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, of course, next week, don't forget, we're starting another marathon.
[57:54.780 --> 57:56.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's always fun.
[57:56.560 --> 58:01.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: We get to meet all kinds of interesting people and talk about all kinds of self-referential things.
[58:02.140 --> 58:07.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: So if you want to tune in next Wednesday night at 10 o'clock, in the meantime, stay tuned for the news coming up next.
[58:07.820 --> 58:08.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[58:08.880 --> 58:10.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: For everybody else, have a good night.
[58:11.160 --> 58:11.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Take care.